heard about kentucky's open senate seat. the republican is running against democrat jack conway. that is next. then debates from colorado is fourth congressional district and new york's 24th house district. we go >> jenna men, thank you for joining us on kentucky tonight. this race has painted this election as one of the most expensive, nasty, and weird campaign seasons in recent history. a campaign of witches and more challenges -- more charges than

you can strike a stick at. the war of commercials has been dominated by -- not information about their proposals. after months of listening to the constant negative ads that informed me of all the reasons why i should not vote for the other guy, i would suggest to both candidates that they spend this time telling me why i should vote for them. i would like for you to concentrate on your positions on these issues and i promise you we will get to as many of those issues as possible. i want you to tell me a little bit about yourself. the very nature of the campaign sometimes paints a portrait of you that your opponent wants the public to see, not who you really are. not everyone reads every newspaper article or read every magazine piece.

whether you live in a city or in a farm or in a small town in kentucky, we are a state that is characterized by the importance of family and neighbors. i want you to describe your community that surrounded you as a child and how your personal biography might shape the hopes and aspirations for all of kentucky's children. we will begin alphabetically. >> thank you very much. i appreciate that insightful question. my background and my parents shape everything about me. my dad grow on a family farm in union county, ky. my great uncle ran a business. my father put himself through law school at night.

all along the way, and he made -- he met my mother, who was the daughter of a union blacksmith. on my mom's side of the family, i am the first to go to college. i am the oldest of four children. they instilled in me an ethic of hard work. when you are knocked down, pick yourself up. study hard and work hard and to appreciate the commonwealth of kentucky. my father put himself through law school at night and taught at high school for the day. very much a self-made family. i love them very much. my wife and i want to raise our daughter to have the kentucky that i knew. >> i am a physician. i'd been married 20 years to my

wife. our average tree was last wednesday, celebrated on the campaign trail. i have three teenage boys. they are 17, 14, and 11. i grew up in a small town and always wanted to live in a small town. i could've gone anywhere, but i chose to come here. my wife grew up in a rusted bolt -- rested -- russellville. we would like to get the land back. they have been in kentucky for a long time. i chose to come here because i liked living in a small town as a kid. i wrote my bike -- i rode my bike everywhere. you could ride your bike everywhere in my town. i think it has been great for my kids to live in a small town. i coached little league, i

coached soccer, i coached basketball. the one thing that won't reveal is my win-loss record. i like being part of a small town and the community. bowling green is a thriving community with a university that is it that energy and vibrancy. >> education is so important and we know that teachers are such a key determinant about the quality of education. i want you to tell me about your favorite teacher and why that person has proven to be important to your life and to your success. >> my first grade teacher was mrs. ducek. she lived on the road from us. first grade is a fascinating time for kids. sometimes we really did not appreciate it as much as we should, and the ability -- be

learning to read aspect. it is an explosion of learning. the book's chapter books after books. having a teacher that recognized that you liked that and promoted that for you. i think it is something i will not forget. >> if we all look back into our past, we all have the teacher that brought us to where we are. we all stand on the shoulders of others. two people really come to mind. in terms of a teacher, when i went to high school, i thought i was going to be an orthopedic surgeon or an architect. i had a teacher for three or four years by the name of john price. he taught me about geography, civics, history, how history can inform the decisions we make in present day. he was more than an instructor. he was someone to help to fulfill your potential.

i certainly would not have gotten -- would not have got to get a public policy degree if it were not for john price. i worked with her for six years. she taught me organizations. she taught me how to find the cancer spread those are two people. >> pickup -- boat she taught me how to find the answers. those are two people. >> there is that great a vista overlooking lake barkley. >> bear river lake. >> fiction or nonfiction? what is the latest piece of fiction that you read? >> employees and would -- poinsonwood bible.

>> i am almost exclusively non- fiction. >> let's talk about some issues in this campaign. i would like 40 to give me your thoughts on the issues without stating your opponents viewpoints. if there are differences, we will have a discussion. what important issue facing the country and what will be job one for you addressing that issue? >> i think jobs and the recession, but also how government interacts with that. government compete for precious funds and we need to be sending less money to washington and keeping more money here in kentucky. i recession numbers just went up. we are up over 10% in kentucky. i think president obama is making a mistake.

he thinks government is the answer to everything. we do have more respect for how individual businesses create jobs. we need to be more conscious of that. the president is laying down a more regulatory burdens. president obama has added a 2500-page health care takeover bill which will create more unemployment. it will add more regulations to your community bank. when you talk to local businesses, they are very concerned about the ability to get a loan, even those with good credit records. my biggest fear is that the president is going to keep us from getting out of this recession. >> i think the job number one is jobs. i have a jobs plan. if people go to my web site, --

i am a different kind of democrat. i think we need to provide benefits to the private sector. we would tap it about $30 billion. if you want to create a new job, you can take 20% of the cost of the new job as a tax credit. i also think that we have to get the small community banks lending once again. george w. bush bailed out a bunch of big banks on wall street. the regulators have, really hard on small community banks. -- the regulators have come down really hard on small community banks. we have to get some regulatory clarity. we need to get capital flowing again.

>> do you believe in more regulation or less regulation? obama care adds thousands of pages of new regulation. president obama is for that, so is my opponent. these regulations are making it harder for local banks. no banks and kentucky failed and yet all these new regulations are heaped on our community banks. i've not met a banker in kentucky that is in favor of the president's regulatory plan. these are real issues. we have starkly different positions. the president's take care of help -- takeover of health care was wrong. the president's regulatory bill would add thousands of pages of regulations to our local banks. >> 1 kentucky bake it did fail.

-- one kentucky bank did fail. i think we needed prudent financial regulatory reform because the banks who were too big to fail got a bunch of bailout money. the banks that are too big to fail or not even bigger. i am worried that we have not learned the moral hazards. these wall street banks were looking for commercial banks to take over. we need to make sure that we learn our lessons and that wall street is not gambling with deposits from places like kentucky. i think it is very important. leaving them alone in the first place got us into this mess. this is about prudent regulation and about prevent oversight. >> it is also about to do you believe in? do you believe the government's answer? the stimulus package, this

stimulus package is money borrowed from china to try to promote job stimulation. i think job creation comes from the businessman or businesswoman in kentucky. we need to send less money there. it is a real clear distinction. this election is about which agenda do you want. is it a good idea for a country to run 8 $2 trillion deficit annually? the interest payments are in the hundreds of billions of dollars. if interest rates rise again, interest alone will consume 25% of the budget. >> something the stimulus was not large enough, that it needed to be larger. this one has created some jobs. you can see this as witnessed in

lexington would give road work that was done. >> bp divided trillion dollars out by jobs created, leave off the -- you talk about jobs created, $400,000 per job. the people who are saying that were wrong about this. they did not predict it coming. tim geithner did not predict it coming. ben bernanke did not predict it coming. you have to ask an important question. where did the trillion dollars come from? it is being borrowed. we do not have it. this money is borrowed from china. it is a disaster for our economy. i fear that it will make things much worse. >> if tax cuts had worked for many years, why hasn't -- how would a home town tax credit,

how would that work effectively? has it been looked at? >> it has been looked at by moodys.com. they passed a holiday from social security taxation for hiring an unemployed person. we need to go further than that. we need to provide incentives to the private sector. just saying that people should take lesser wages, that is not a jobs plan. >> there are clear choices. >> there are clear choices for seniors, students, veterans. >> the stimulus package -- a trillion dollars, recently we found out that 77,000 checks were sent to dead people. 17,000 checks were sent to inmates. this is an example of government run amok.

this is precisely why we do not want to send more money to washington. >> we will take a break here. we do invite questions tonight from viewers. we got many questions and we sure appreciate your participation. you can send an e-mail tonight. please include first and last name and town or county in your message. you may call us. we will take as many of those calls as we can. among the general public, and, of tarp remains one of the most vilified programs that was ever enacted by congress. officials in the current administration, though, insist that tarp was a success and that

it alleviated the severity of the financial crisis. was tarp a success, mr. conway? >> i do not think so. there are lessons to be learned. the people on wall street that created this mess came in the dark of the night and said, you've got to bail us out. the government started handing out money. the bigger banks started acquiring the sicker firms. executives started taking bonuses and there was no accountability. i am all about accountability. i believe you have to have some accountability. to come in the dark of the night and say, give us money, i do not think it worked. >> that money is being repaid, dr. paul. was it is success? >> absolutely a failure. the number one issue in my primary was that i stood up, even when republicans were for

this bank ballot, and said no more. i did not hear much from the other side. tarp was a mistake. most of the people say it was in assets are all people who did not predict the housing crisis. they did not know anything about what was coming. they were surprised by this. in some ways, organized bankruptcy for aig might have been a better way to go. aig bank erupted -- bankruptcy, it became a pastor for goldman sachs executives. -- a passed through it for goldman sachs executives. >> the treasury is still authorized to spend $50 billion. it pays services and borrowers to modified mortgages in an effort to keep their homes.

should the government be spending tax dollars in an effort to keep borrowers in their homes? >> i think that the tarp funds that are left should go to restoring the deficit and trying to pay off debts. the entire $800 billion should never have been spent. president obama stimulus package should never have been spent. i would vote for any unused funds to go back to try to offset the deficit. >> on this tarp plan, the $50 billion, will that create a number of housing problems across the nation? >> the housing problem was created by bad government policy. it was created by government policy that kept the interest rate at 0%. it also stimulated by the community reinvestment act that said to people, it is a good idea to buy a house without a down payment.

many of these mortgages are so far under water -- they are not getting any better. >> what will happen to those people? >> nothing dud. it is really a tragedy. the tragedy is the bad policy by barney frank and others who really got beat community reinvestment act going. in 2003, fannie mae and freddie mac came to the banking committee and said, we are a billion dollars short. the conservatives said, are you going to make better decisions? their credit line is unlimited. we made a grave mistake. >> what about the $50 billion? you would not support the treasuries authorization? >> i do not think it is ok to sit back and say that there are all these people were going to lose their homes. i do not think it is ok to say

that is a tragedy. as attorney general, i have tried to work to make sure that we did that people of some sort of recourse. a lot of people in kentucky and have had recourse because of the actions we have taken. we need to slow that process down and make sure that people are not being kicked out of their homes to quickly. we need to look at ways to keep people in their homes. in places like kentucky, people poured everything into their homes. we have to get back to sound lending practices. when i bought my first home, i put about a quarter down. these are sound practices. we got away from that. >> the real question to voters is, if there is $200 billion

left in tarp, are you going to spend it? put it back in the treasury. i am not sure i heard what his position is on this. >> let me move to foreign policy. if elected, you will have some tough decisions to make on many different issues, including trade policy, nuclear negotiations with russia, the middle east. give me a couple of spots on your foreign policy platform and your experience to deal with these areas. >> the united states needs to be engaged in the world. the united states is to be a symbol of good will. we ought to be centaur partners, a step up and help us to bear some of these costs. in the interest of afghanistan, i saw the president wanting to surge in afghanistan and i did not hear enough about pakistan and regional partners. the best we can hope for is to lead the nation a more stable

than we found it. in order to achieve that final political solution, we have to give regional partners involved. we have to recognize how big a problem nuclear proliferation is. it would be a threat to the entire middle eastern region. it would be a threat to the entire world. we need to be focused on this issue of nuclear proliferation. >> what should be the united states proper response to iran? >> the most important vote that i would ever take if i'm elected and a boat that i will treat very seriously is the vote on whether or not to go to war. the vote on declaring war is probably the most important vote that a senator would ever take. i would only vote for going to war if i were going to war.

if you talk to our soldiers to been to war, they will tell you that we should go to war reluctantly. but 9/11 happened, there was without question, we cannot let people organize and attack us. i was in favor of going into afghanistan. 10 years later, some questions have to be passed. -- have to be asked. d think we're doing enough? reducing the afghans are doing enough to step up and began to control their own streets -- andy cinko the afghans are doing enough to step up and begin to control their own streets? they would like to see the afghan step up quicker. >> what should our strategy in iran be? >> we do not want iran to have nuclear weapons. we should do everything possible to keep them from having nuclear weapons. one of the things we tried doing

is having sanctions. we should not subsidize companies that do business with iran. that is a mistake. >> our first phone call tonight from bill atkins. welcome to kentucky tonight. >> thank you. you've taken several positions in this campaign from social security. you called it a ponzi scheme, i believe. you think it would be up to the lunch counter owners to determine who might be served. when challenged, he refers to opposition for political expediency. do you have a rough count as to how many times -- and how and why should we find a credible? >> i do not think this was an

undecided voter. the reason people in kentucky dwelled choose me next tuesday is because they're tired of career politicians. they're tired of politicians who will say or do anything. but things i talk about are very mainstream. i talk about a balanced budget. i think both ciardi's -- i think both parties are untrustworthy. the problem in washington is a spending problem, not a revenue problem. i think term limits are a good idea. i think they should read the bills. for goodness sakes, and they read the bills before the vote on them? the public will decide next tuesday it could takes consistent positions. >> do you want to clarify any of the questions he had about the civil-rights act? >> they have all been mischaracterized. many of them have been shot down. the civil-rights act discussion

was shot down by mississippi nbc -- msnbc. >> i'm flabbergasted. watched 20 of the most painful and embarrassing moment i've ever seen on national cable tv. his words were to have you been in the senate and then, that he would of been seeking to modify the lunch counter provision. we all know what the lunch counter provision is spread that is on the record. he is running from his own words. the voters have a tough choice to make tuesday. in the world in which i live, the kentucky seniors i see, they are on fixed incomes. they cannot afford a 23% sales

tax. they cannot afford a $2,000 deductible. the students in kentucky cannot afford college. the veterans need the americans with disabilities act. i campaigned last week. he came here because he was concerned about preserving veterans benefits. >> dr. paul, let me give you a chance to respond. do you think that social security is a ponzi scheme? >> the 20 most painful minutes were chris matthews. when jack decided he wanted to attack my religion. social security is having difficulty finding itself. it is funded by people paying taxes. in 1937, there were 42 workers

and one retiree. we get to the 1970's and 1980's, it was seven workers to one retiree. the career politicians were squandering this. to less 3 we're down workers per one retiree. what does all this mean? it means the baby boomers retiring, we have to figure out how to pay for it. right now, social security is paying out more than an brings in. there is a problem with finding it. i am willing to step up and say, let's have an adult discussion about how we fix these programs. >> i want to return to the discussion about social security and medicare and how will reduce the deficit. and give you a chance to clarify some of the comments about the civil rights act. do you deny that you said that? is there any clarification? >> i never said that i believe

in anything remotely about segregated lunch counter. chris matthews came on the next day and said, jack conway was lying. it was faulty was saying. he had some success. but he was being dishonest. this has been a recurrent theme. he has been trying to represent something and run against it because he does not want to run against someone who was talking about the balanced budget and term limits. the tea party movement is amazingly big and strong. people are tired of career politicians. they want an outsider. they want someone new. >> anyone can go to the videotape. what's what he said on rachael not amaddow. it is on tape. we settled those issues half a

century ago. >> we need to go forward, not backward. this comes from a piece that tom brokaw road just last week. in afghanistan and iraq, we have lost 5000 of our men and women. we spend a trillion dollars on combat operations. wars and thee human and economic consequences front and center and a selection? we talked a lot about jobs in the economy. how do you answered the question that we need to spend more time thinking about those men and women and the 30,000 that will come back here to the united states named? >> i think we ought to be talking about it. my father served in the military. he served in germany for two years guarding missile silos during the cuban missile crisis. i talked to him a lot about

being in the military and how brave men and women making extreme sacrifice. we're in a state that has fort knox and fort campbell. one thing tatarstan, there are 300,000 veterans in this state. we have 50,000 wounded disabled veteran spread the have 12,000 newly disabled veterans sent 9/11. we will have to look at -- he has spoken out against the 88. i do not think we should be telling soldiers -- we need to be talking about these wars. we need to be talking about the cost. we have had civilians can -- killed in these countries, too. >> once again, he is dishonest. he is misrepresenting my position.

lexington herald corrected him on this. he has no shame. >> what is your position? >> i am not opposed to the ada. the war is an enormous hardship. we have the greatest nation ever known. we have the most money defense and the military around the world. i think we can win any war. i do not think we are -- some nations defied that. there comes a time when this discussion does need to happen. i want to be part of that national debate about saying, how long is long enough? i think we really do need to have a real discussion in this country about comet is 10 years long enough? should the afghans be stepping up? >> the united states military is

very good at winning battles. when we get to these political questions, what is the exit strategy? we need to make certain we're talking about that. >> do you agree with him on that point? >> he said that we are not all bad nation-building. before you ever commit troops to war, you need to think, how are we bringing them home? what is the end goal? what is realistic? we need to make certain that we understand the human toll of deaths. >> quickly on health care, an e- mail. why do you support the health care system known as obama-care? dr. paul, why do you oppose it? >> i would like to fix the health care bill. it is not a perfect bill.

he wants to repeal it. i am not for a $2,000 deductible. i have a friend -- i was in his wedding. he had a kidney transplant. on numerous occasions, he told the hardest to get a health care coverage because of his pre- existing condition. now under the law, he can get health care coverage. we have 19,000 kids direct we have women who are going to get a mammogram screenings and additional protections for them. breast cancer research ought to be brought down to the local level, but it is an issue -- it is an issue to get funding for breast cancer research. it is not a perfect bill. >> what parts with to keep?

>> this gets back your earlier question. it made sense to me that a sweetheart deal was cut with the pharmaceutical companies that did not allow medicare to negotiate for lower prescription drug prices. we monitor the medicaid system. if medicare were allowed to do that, it would be 200 billion in savings. that is some real money. we were able to stay close and understand what is going on. the problem with medicare is that it is done from a big bureaucracy. just have someone on the ground. there are ways that they could shore up medicare without taking pharmaceutical companies off the table. >> mr. paul, are there no

positive elements of the health- care bill that you would reinstitute? >> one of the great ironies of this whole debate about deductibles is that when i spoke of deductibles, i spoke of ways to try to fix the problem. the interesting irony is that under obama-care, deductibles are already going up. at medicare advantage payments, 11 million of them will have higher deductibles. >> when does that go into effect? >> the lot of them go into effect gradually. out-of-pocket costs for medicare advantage, not only is it hurting the people on the receiving end, but it is hurting him manner. it is a big presence in louisville. there is a lot of shuffling

going around. medicare is short of money now because of the demographics, because of the baby boomers retiring. they took $500 billion out of medicare in putting into obama- care. we have a brand new entitlement program and we've already having trouble finding the current one. it is going to be worse than we can even imagine. >> are you opposed to all of them? >> i would like to see a more market-oriented approach. some things can sound really good, but right now, i'd buy insurance and i'm healthy. i'd buy it in case i get sick. if you tell me i can give for the same price after i am sick, why do i buy it? if you get reverse incentives to customers, what happens is that

helping people drop out. the system becomes more burden with sick people. it is destroying the market place. president obama really is probably the most anti business press and we have ever had. he does not understand business. he is going to have a 400,000 fine. >> he is being fined for not offering insurance? >> the problem with tim workers is that you add them all up, and he said they are equivalent for full-time workers. >> i do not want to penalize employers. my opponent says that we need to go back to the health care system we had this country pre- world war ii.

the average person spent about $5 a year on health care. my opponent is running from the fact that he said that he supports a $2,000 medicare deductible. a lot of medicare advantage plans were being over reimbursed. now he is trying to conjure up this argument that deductibles are going up. he has to run from his own words. sanders and kentucky can not afford a 23% sales tax. they just cannot afford what brand paul is putting out there. >> -- rand paul is putting out there. >> the leader of the party, you wanted president obama, it is a disaster for our country. he is bankrupting us and do sit

blindly and support his policies. it is a disaster. >> did you call for a $2,000 deductible? >> he has shown snippets of this speech, which is intellectually dishonest. a higher deductible would help fix the problem, what -- but would be politically unpalatable. there would be ways that in the future, younger people might have to pay higher deductibles. you might have to have people -- that may be coming. you have to figure out how demographically we're going to pay for this. >> in kentucky, he did not attack a man's horse or a man's job.

he said to a thousand dollar deductible. -- he said $2,000 deductible. he did the same thing with the fair tax. his campaign manager send out an e-mail on it. >> you have a simplistic world view. you oversimplify things. he did not want to present the whole facts. you say that we're going to keep on some new sales tax. we're talking about eliminating the income tax. you leave that out. >> the seniors cannot afford that. >> you did not listen. you oversimplify things into sound bites because all you care about is winning. what i've said from the very beginning is that our problem is

a spending problem, not a revenue problem. i have said that when we can get that under control, i want to simplify the tax code. the tax code is 16,000 pages long. we spend $239 billion to comply with the tax code. that is equal to walmart to gross receipts in a year. another way of making it simpler would be a flat income tax. to lower all marginal tax rates. the one thing that was the best government stimulus that we ever had, contrary to borrowing money from china, is cutting tax rates. i have been honest with the people of kentucky. you can only taxed -- cut taxes if you are willing to cut spending. >> let's take our second phone call.

mary hatfield from harrison county. >> i saw a commercial on television today, rand paul against jack conway ended insinuated that he was against abortion, but jack conway was for abortion. jack conway, i have met him. he told me he was a christian. since both of them confessed to be christians, i am a little bit nervous. i would like to note is both candidates -- are they for or against? if they're against it, what will they do to stop that? >> i am one under percent pro- life. i believe that life begins at conception. >> i am a christian. i think abortion ought to be as

rare as they can make it. i would support parental identification, restrictions. it should be as rare as we can make it, but safe and legal. >> anything else on that that you want to clarify? >> education, and gentlemen, the world is becoming increasingly well-educated. china and india are now gaining momentum. they have more graduates with bachelor's degrees than the united states. what is the role of the u.s. department of education in ensuring that americans have the highest quality of education? >> a supportive role. i worked for an education governor for about six years. i helped write the higher educational reform act of 1997. kentucky has to get more

educated if we're going to compete with that indiana and tennessee and ohio and virginia, much less china and india. i am very concerned about a couple of things. we tried to have rewards and accountability. we tried to reform higher education. i think we need to be committed as a state to making certain that we have early childhood education. the child to cannot read at 7 is a likely drop out at 16. depending on the year between 6 and 10% comes from federal sources. those are important money is. -- those are important monies. there is a role for the federal government. we are really good at getting kids into college. card retention and graduating is dropping off. we are now number 9 in the

entire world in terms of graduates. i am glad the federal government says they will have a longer period of time to pay off their loans. we have to make certain that we continue with stafford lunt and telegrams to make it easier for young people to afford education. do away with the department of education would really hurt young people. >> you would not cut federal money to support grants? >> gasoline not. >> -- absolutely not. >> the department of education has doubled in size. no child left behind is a mistake. if you talk to teachers around kentucky, most teachers agree with me. i would say that 90% of teachers agree with me. it is a mandate from the federal government that interferes with the local education of our kids. you hear an extreme dislike for

the idea of unfunded mandates. you hear throughout -- you hear this bill out county and city and state government. the federal government tells you where your money can be spent. in the end, money is being spent in one area and the kids do not have computers. you really need to allow superintendents for more local control. teachers, parents, family, the local community needs to be more involved. >> on higher education, which suggest that grants and student loans because it? >> i would make them -- get rid of the department of education. for the most part, i think we have gone too far towards a federal involvement. for most of our history, until

1979, ronald reagan ran on a platform of eliminating the newly formed department of education because we as republicans and believe in a more local control of state -- of schools. we think we can figure out things better on a local level rather than transmitting those powers and sending them money to washington. i would rather keep that money here in kentucky. >> there are people watching this program that have gone and gotten higher education. to say that you want to do away with the department of education, just shift the money elsewhere, and he was talking about how i am too simple. you are eliminating assistance to young people who just want to further their education. >> that does not sound like what i said. >> what energy bill would support?

it would include measures to -- related to kentucky coal? >> cap-and-trade would be a disaster for our economy. hundreds of thousands of jobs could be lost in our state. coppin henderson, we have to aluminum plant that employs 1500 people. this is a clear distinction. early on, jack has been for cap- and-trade. even the progress of blocker -- progressive blogger said that he has had personal conversations with jack. we're now seeing the other side of things. cap-and-trade, kentucky will not tolerate ambivalence on this. we are seeing ambivalence. that would be a charitable description of his position.

i will oppose cap-and-trade. >> there is nothing to clarify. i am against cap-and-trade. i will stand up for the kentucky coal industry. my plan and says that coal is one of the least favorable forms of energy. i think we can stand up for kentucky coal. i understand how important it is. i've worked for a cold governor. -- coal governor. i understand how important it is. you can talk about all -- my position all he wants. i am against cap-and-trade. i filed an action to say that kentucky does not think that the epa could do this. he can characterize my position

all the bonds. the ad that they are running now is faults. i'm against cap-and-trade. i stepped up for the people of kentucky. >> did you have an opportunity to join the lawsuit? >> it was just filed a week ago. the governor went ahead and directed his cabinet to do it. >> on medicare and social security, we do not have time to go into a full debate. clarify your position on both of those. hallwood suggesting that reduce the deficit? >> -- hollywood breeds -- how would that reduce the deficit? >> we are getting a time or we have one worker to one retiree. we have to figure out how to pay for them. you will have to make some difficult decisions. not on current retirees.

i do not support raising the deductible. i do not support changing anything for current seniors. but for younger people, and there may have to be changes. on the younger folk, it probably should be directed more toward a means and still with consideration -- 20% it is picked nap -- is picked up now. >> something will have to be done. would you agree with any of this? >> seniors cannot afford a 23% national sales tax. they cannot afford a u.s. senator that says social security is a ponzi scheme that should be privatized.

here is what we need to do. we need to make sure that medicare can engage, negotiate for lower prescription rates. doing that would save $200 billion. we need to stand by social security. social security is not an investment. it is a social insurance program that is designed to keep people from starving to death. i will never do that. >> as we wrap up, a final question. kentucky is the home to many admired statesmen and political leaders, from abraham lincoln to mcconnell. would kentucky politician most inspired you and influenced your public life? >> i have known some great kentucky politicians.

the experience i had 18 years of age, when i first went in to meet with linda for, he gave me all this time. -- wendall ford. this is the nicest man to ever grace the halls of the u.s. senate. what an enduring legacy. i would love to be just like that. >> when ipad started in this race, -- when i got started in this race, the one thing i really admired about him is that he was not afraid to stand on principle. when congress and sent said, let's not add tay off things as. when nobody else would stand up,

he stood up and said, enough is enough. he also stood up and said that the bank bailout was wrong. he stood up and on principle, of voted the way he believed was right for ky. i am proud of him for that. >> thank you for being here. good luck next week. next week, steve robertson. our election night will be again reporting returns during the newshour. thank you for watching. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> up next, minnesota's 3 candidate for governor face each other in the latest debate. after that, in a dump -- a

debate over colorado for congressional district seat. later, it is new york's 24th congressional district. the head of the democratic governors' association said that president obama decision not to endorse democrat frank capra go since a bad message to everybody who is working to get democrats collected this year. the statement follows the white house decision that the president will stay out of the race. former republican senator crossed party lines to endorse the president in 2008. with elections a week away, we continue our political coverage each night on c-span. here is a look at tomorrow's

lineup. we will be live in south carolina for a governors' debate. after that, in indiana senate debate. later, we will hear from the two-party express on the elections. after that, the race for new hampshire's second district and pennsylvania's third district. >> one of the great features of the video library is the ability to share our programs with your friends. during this campaign season, that includes more than 100 debates. if you are new to it all, watched the tutorial. >> every weekend, experience american history. 48 hours of people and events, telling the american story. here historic speeches from

national leaders. these museums, historical sites, and college campuses. all weekend, every weekend on c- span. >> now the race to be minnesota's new governor. they debated on sunday. mark dayton's family founded a well-known chain of department stores. tom emmer is a state senator. the political report rates this race a tossup.

>> three candidate's name to convince you give the best solution to the critical problems facing minnesota -- balancing the budget, whether to raise taxes, how to educate your children and how to fund health care. they are running for governor and they want your vote. and welcome to this prime-time debate in minnesota's and governor's race, brought to you by 5 eyewitness news and broadcast across the state in conjunction with the league of women voters. we are coming to live from metro state university at the beautiful new main hall. we have a live audience on hand. for the next hour, we are hoping for our free-wheeling discussion of the important issues. the candidates have agreed to a format that will allow us to have a free-wheeling discussion that will focus on several

subject areas that will not require timed responses of 30 seconds or a minute. we will give them a little more time if they needed, and will also allow the candidates to address one another if they choose to give specific answers. and of the quarter, let's meet the candidates. mark dayton served as a u.s. senator and commissioner of the minnesota department of economic development and energy. he graduated from yale university where he was a goalie for the hockey team. he also taught science for two years in new york city. he was born in minneapolis and raised in long lake. he has two sons. represents -- in the minnesota state senate. he served on two city councils. he graduated from the university of alaska where he also played hockey.

he earned his law degree at william mitchell. he and his wife has seven children. independent party candidate tom horner owned a public relations firm and was managing editor of "the son of," newspapers. he graduated from st. thomas, where he teaches. he is from minneapolis. he and his wife have three children. >> you have not a chance to meet the candidates. let's get right down to the issues and we will begin with the biggest issue -- balancing the budget. we face a projected nearly $6 billion budget deficit. each of youakssk what you plan to do to balance the budget. mr. emmer you plan to balance the budget to spending cuts. mr. dayton you plan to tax

snowbirds. what i want to know is, where were you compromise? where are you willing to go to the state capital and sit down with the legislature and find an area, even if it is one of the important areas you of blood, where you would compromise? a couple of days ago, governor pawlenty told me that he wished the government shutdown have lasted longer so he could have extracted more budget concessions. would you go to a government shut down if you needed to to expand your principal of smaller government and more spending cuts? >> before we start talking about the bad things that could happen, we have to talk about it -- i will change the idea that it is just spending cuts. people have to understand in the state of minnesota that we are going to have more of our general fund to spend two years from now. the next governor will actually

have almost 78% in general fund revenues to spend. we put out the only complete and detailed but -- balance budget that will force government to live within its means. that is roughly about $3 billion more to spend. we do not believe you need to raise taxes. government can purchase the services people expect them to provide within the increased revenues we are going to have carried the other part of the discussion has to be above growing jobs in the state. it is not just getting government to live within its means. to answer your question, here is how we get both sides of the aisle to work together. i have offered things like reducing the corporate franchise tax, expanding the angel investment tax credit, expanded research and development tax credit. these are things that have bipartisan support in the senate and the minnesota house of representatives. the canada that offers a sales tax increase, i know he jokes -- talks about reducing it, that

had very little support in the house. senator dayton's proposal to tax a certain segment of the population got seven votes. it is about offering things that people understand. >> i need you to answer the question. would you do what governor pawlenty did enforce a government shutdown at? >> i believe the government has to live within its means. >> would you push it to a government shut down? >> again, the governor should not be pushing government shutdowns. we all have to work together. at the end of the day, leadership is about leading people where they need to be. if they are not willing to get together on a solution, the governor has to leave. >> senator dayton, if you cannot get the legislature to go along with the vision you have, how far would you be willing to go, would you allow government to shut down in order to try to get things the way you see them? >> no, i would not shut

government down. the government provides important services and those services need to continue -- public safety, education system, and the like. i served in the executive branch through nine legislative sessions in three state agencies. i believe in working collaborative lee with the legislature and i would do so as governor. we need to make taxes more progressive in minnesota. republican governor back in the 1990's when we had much better economic growth, even when we distributed it among the population -- it was evenly distributed among the population. now, the wealthiest are paying more compared to everyone else. i will work with the legislature constructively to achieve that goal. >> what if you run up against a legislator that says no to that tax increases he proposed? >> i agree with rep emmer that

increasing employment is the number one priority. and there is almost a $6 billion deficit to deal with in the next five months. the reality is for every dollar of revenue the legislature is not willing to increase, there will have to cut a dollar of spending. there will have to tell the people of minnesota, we will cut a dollar for education, health and human services, make property-tax is go higher. those are the tradeoffs that the legislature will have to make. >> there is no chance he will have an independence party majority in the senate or the house. are you willing to fight for the things you are proposing in the campaign, including lowering the sales tax? >> i think any governor has to hold true to his principles. that is why you elect the leadership. now that these two gentlemen have given their stump speeches, let's talk about reality. what you have heard from them is exactly why we will have gridlock. that is what every newspaper

that has endorsed an almost without exception has said i am the only one that can break the gridlock, i am the owner wanted to move the state ford because i am the only one -- move the state forward. but also, i am the all the one that has the leadership, the ability to break through this partisan ideology. you see from senator dayton of person who keeps running for one office after another, has never shown leadership, has not shown the ability, the temperament to really be a leader on these difficult issues. we are going to face some really challenging issues next year, and it is not just around the budget. it is around operation, the future of education, how we spend -- all those will take -- they will be challenging issues that will take leadership. >> would you ever force the government shut down if that is what it took to get what you want? >> he would hope that he would

not have to force a government shutdown, that you can work with the legislative leaders to get something done. but in the end, you have to be true to your principles, to to the state of minnesota and you have to have a budget the works for people, not just a math problem to make it at up. because that is what they did this year. and it does not add up for a lot of minnesotans. >> tom emmer, he does reference you in a series of budget targets that you proposed heard within those targets, that you have given very little detail about, the spending cuts you're looking at, are minnesotans supposed to assume that you will get there some mouth? >> that is beautiful. i have provided more detail than any other person running for office. it is $2.50 billion short. senator day and as one that is $1 billion short and he is still making spending promises.

spending cuts -- yes, there are some areas that are less and our proposed budget in the next two years than they are right now. we have not cut kansas 12 education. we have not only maintained the health andrent -- human services is an area that needs to be got under control. we have added $650 million to that area. we are talking about budget cuts -- a $6 billion deficit -- people on the street do not like it when they find out that it is not the government that is losing money. government will have more, but government wants to spend 20% more. >> they really do not like it, representative emmer, when democrats and republicans did exactly to the state of minnesota what you did this year. when you pretend to balance the

budget at the state level and end up with school districts have to go to four day weeks. when you pretend to balance the budget and end up with communities having to cut fire and police. now you are asking small businesses to accelerate the payment on sales taxes. that is not leadership. that is partisan, ideological pandering that is not going to work for the future. >> representative emmer talks about the same level of funding for public education and making up for the federal stimulus money. we are expecting to have 14,000 more students in our public schools over the next few years. so with the same level of funding is cut. justice over the last a years governor pawlenty has cut spending on real dollars by $1,300 per student. that is why we have all recorded -- overcrowded classrooms.

>> the last question in this segment. mr. dayton and mr. horner, the bulk of their proposals call for tax increases. -- both of your proposals call for tax increases. is it a good idea to take the money of of the private economy and give it to government? >> none of us created the deficit. that is one of every $6 at the state is expected to spend on education, on property tax relief. the spending cuts will have to come out of very tough decisions. i believe, given that the minister and a department of revenue has said that the wealthiest 1% of people in minnesota are paying only two such 3% of their income in state and local taxes, i would ask them to contribute some more so that we can go to not anymore karcher day weeks and provide the services they need. >> the money is coming out of the private economy. the wealthy people spend a lot of money to buy products and

services that middle class people provide or manufacture. is it a good idea to take money of the private economy to the levels you are talking about? >> it is a good idea when democrats and republicans have left no other choice, when it is based in tax reform, based on looking at the economy where it actually is. let me correct saturday when he said none of us created the problem. one -- let me correct senator dayton when he said none of us agree to the problem. one of us did. the kind of proposal i put forth is exactly what she should go to. the business-led attacks tax commssio 0-- ission came to the same conclusion. >> mr. emmer, you get the final word on this.

>> there is no tax reform when you're adding billions of taxes. when you are giving government another revenue stream, without addressing structural reform, that is not leadership. it is not $2 billion to $3 billion in new taxes. it is $5 billion. senator didn't, we have added more to préval in the last few years -- more per pupil in the last few years than the prior governor. being beholden to the union leaders, to the union head, and doing what he wants you to do is not going to lead this state to the types of reforms and k-12 education. with $14 million invested in our schools, if we can give the people that are administering our schools and the freedom to put the dollars were they need to go to get the highest return for the value, that is where we will see the result in if we

will just be beholden to the union boss and not let any reform gets through, that will not help our kids are. >> a very brief response. we will have a segment on education and a moment. >> 72,000 teachers endorsed me. having been a teacher myself in york, education is provided to teachers. i am committed to working with teachers, which is why have their support. >> let's shift our focus to jobs and economic development. this week, we learned that the state lost another 10,000 jobs last month. the unemployment rate has stayed at 7%. u.s. said it is important to pass up to $1 billion bonding bill to create jobs. do they create long-lasting jobs or jobs that end up being meaningful? >> they are marin fit -- very meaningful to the 28,000 people that go to work building those buildings and improving them all over the state.

so, absolutely yes. that is a way in which government can be a partner, as i learned when i was commissioner of economic development. government has a proactive role to play in support of the private sector. those 28,000 jobs are private sector jobs the construction companies are employing people and the private sector. they pay tax revenues. that is what we need to do to encourage job development. i would loan money out to the schools. retrofitting heating and cooling systems. those people to work, and they are clean energy. government is a product of a partner in job creation. >> you propose a much more modest bonding bill. do you have some doubts about how much that does and the long run to create jobs that families can depend on of along hall? >> my long term economic development program is not

rooted in bonding. that is something that will create short-term jobs, but we still need to focus that on where the need for investment is. mr. dayton's tax proposal. here is the reality. last week i was in bader in. they have to purchase of $4 million press -- in byron -- that made it possible for them to hire 40 more people. if the tax proposal had been in place, they would not have been able to buy the press and would not be hard in those 40 people. same things at digikey. they say very directly -- mr. dayton's tax proposal, they would not be hiring new people. that is the reality. he loves to talk about taxing the rich. the reality is that when he ran for governor of the last time, he was the one that was proposing a sales-tax expansion because it was the right thing to do. it is good economic policy, if we couple it with tax reform.

if a great incentive for individuals to invest in new businesses, technology, new equipment, the kinds of things that drive economic growth. then we have to be honest and say that we will surely balance the budget, not come up with a budget were the numbers add up but the numbers are phony. >> i believe you voted against every bonding bill that came before you in a state legislator. why is that? >> the bonding bills, when you spend bonding -- and it is amazing to me that these gentleman would propose $400 million and $1 billion in the other, without knowing what they are spending it on. the bond and bills the odyssey and, -- i have seen, if they have regional investment, that is where our money should be spent. when you have bonding bills that have snowmaking machines in different parts of the states, that is not a project that has

statewide significance. that is not what we should be doing. you are right, mr. horner, i have provided the only balanced budget, and it would be good if he would provide one with the details, so when people know when you are talking about the taxes or raise, just how much you will have to raise to meet all the things you are talking about we believe you have to grow jobs in this state. there is a place for bonding, the question, but we have to put more money in the hands of our job creators, the entrepreneurs ands. . we have got to start to relax the regulations so that they can start hiring again and start growing business in the state of minnesota. >> bill league of greater minnesota cities has said that your proposal would result in higher property taxes. but for every $1 you cut local government, property taxes go up

by 67 cents. same with their cuts in school funding. we were in rochester earlier this week for our debate, and the chamber estes about the projects that governor pawlenty vo -- asked us about the projects governor pawlenty vetoed. 19 early childhood learning facilities are ready to be improved. there are projects ready to go, that would put people to work all over the state. >> i do need to respond to that because, mr. dayton, when you talk about local government aid cuts resulting in a 67 cent increase at the local level. people need to understand that local government aid was intended to provide those communities that cannot have the economic base, the opportunity to provide public safety -- police, fire, a sewer, water --

some cities are using it for other things. more importantly, people have to understand that if all the local government aid dollars the state issues, only 20 cities get over 50%. only five cities get almost 40% of all local government aid issued by the state. when the senator says that this causes a dollar for dollar increase or 67 cent increase it is not true. here it is. if we do not let the states spend $1 and it only cost us 67 cents, didn't we save the taxpayer 33 cents on every dollar, and what is wrong with that? >> we are going to move on. we are partnering with our sister stations across the state of minnesota, including in duluth. >> last week, we learned that a large precious metal mining project in northeastern minnesota will be delayed 1.5 years while doing a supplemental

environmental impact statement. do you think minnesota has a proper balance between allowing job growth while protecting the environment? >> thank you. >> i am appreciative at the duluth news tribunate is one of the many newspapers that endorsed meet. part of it is because i do take a more thoughtful approach . we have to the senator who has spent the whole campaign whole mpca.about the it is not reality. within the department of natural resources, we have people that our experts, who understand the environmental consequences of these mines. and they have done a very rigorous review of these activities up there. what is happening now is that the federal government is stepping in. and what the people in

northeastern minnesota will tell you is that they are willing to go along with it. they are willing to comply. what they want is a system where they know what will happen. they want to know the process, and they want to have an advocate in the governor's office that can help them. should we get these mines done that? should we do it in a way in which we make sure we protect our environment and hold these companies accountable, so that we have the resources from the company's three mediate if something goes wrong? absolutely. >> your said there is too much regulation and it stifles job growth. >> it is more than that. there are too many agencies with overlapping jurisdictions at the state level that create new regulations that we must abide by. and then they all compete for the right to enforce those rules and it creates a lot of excessive time constraints and obstacles for people trying to start businesses in the state.

and not just horizontally, but vertically -- due to talk about the county and local level. what we have been telling people in northern minnesota, what we have been saying to all of minnesota, is we have a commitment to our environment. there is no question. is not a matter of party. it is not a matter of being republican, independent, or a democrat. one of the things that makes minnesota a wonderful place to live our our natural resources, and we are all committed to being good stewards. in addition to the commitment of our environment, we have an obligation to the people to make sure that they enjoy the quality of life that this state offers them. if we are elected, those mines will be open. >> i was endorsed by the wassa vi daily news. i believe and i have learned that strong economic

development and a strong and are meant protection are complementary. people in the minnesota breeze the air and drink the water before anyone else does. they need to protect this and for future generations. we need to responsibly create jobs and minnesota. that would be my objective at 5 become governor. >> we are also partnering with kenny king from ksax. >> according to the department of economic development, the unemployment rate is 13% in this county compared to 7% in minneapolis, st. paul. how you plan to create jobs in rural towns? we would reduce the corporate income tax by one point. in the next two years, that would.

$360 -- put $360 million into the hands of employers so they will start hiring people again. we are planning a 10% -- exclusion on gross earnings. it would allow small businesses about $160 million for them and to start hiring again. this should be border to border economic development. >> there are several things we have to do. i laid out a specific proposal to do these things for communities around the state. and it starts with local government assistance. we need to make a c ommitment to lga, so communities around the state can

make investments in their future. look at the policies that came out of democrats and republicans in the last year that is destroying the health care system in minnesota, and hospitals that are now being forced to deal with more and more emergency room costs because the democrats- republicans-the governor have cut basic programs. we of nursing homes, 28% are on the verge of a per bankruptcy. thirdly, we need to make an investment in education. central lakes community college is a terrific program that will suffer damage under both of these budgets. they have a heavy equipment program, two year program, 100 students, some of them non- traditional. at the end of the program, there will place nearly every single person and a job paying $15 or $30 per hour. we do need tax reform.

the saleso take tax on capital equipment and exempting it from the beginning. not make them fall for an exemption and wait for two years. exempted from the beginning. >> businesses in minnesota pay more than four times more in property taxes than in corporate tax. they have said then mr. emmer's proposal would increase taxes. that calculation comes from the minnesota department of revenue. for every $1 you cut and local government aid, property taxes go up by 67 cents. smaller businesses pay a higher percentage of that. they want to provide incentives to expand and create more jobs, keeping property taxes down is an essential direction. tourism. i was responsible for tourism when i was commissioner of economic development.

there is a multiple of economic benefits for every $1 the state invests in advertising and promotion. governor pawlenty's cut that. i would restore that. when i was commissioner, we expanded the starr cities for economic development. we have a state of the hard economic development program and chambers working together all over the state. -- we had a state of the art economic redella program and chambers working together all over the state. thirdly kincaid thcan keep the and fourthly's to oa limit. the issue of casinos. mr. horner, you have proposed a "racino" as part of an economic

development. >> i think the state should get a share of the gambling that exists. i do not believe that we should use it for court essential services or to balance the budget. we need to use it for rainy day fund and as a backup funding for a vikings stadium. >> our recent poll shows that 55% of minnesotans were in favor of this. >> for economic development, you would have to give it consideration. but he cannot keep finding new revenue streams to grow government at the expense of the private sector. it should not be used just to balance the budget. >> wait a second. that is what i just said. do not use it to balance the budget. again, it's this listening problem you have, were you pretend you know more than anybody else and you talk to the rest of the public as if what you are saying is the gospel. that is where you get -- you put

your stake in the ground and you will not move. that is not what we need right now. >> i said i would consider one state-owned and operated casino. because i believe that the state needs competition. i've learned that for retail as well as politicians. competition is good for consumers and we would generate revenues that would go to reduce the overcrowding in our schools. i would devote the funds to education. >> let's take a break. we want to hear from our host -- matches state university. -- metro state university. >> as an urban university that educates working adults and promote civic and casement, we are pleased to host this evening's gubernatorial debate. to learn more about metropolitan state, go to

www.metrostate.edu. >> thank you very much. this is a beautiful campus, as you can see from that shot again, and the shadows of downtown st. paul. we will move on to the topic of education. we touched on this earlier. mr. dayton, you made some bold education proposals. you would pay back the entire $1.40 billion the state owes to school districts. you propose all-day kindergarten for all schools, smaller class sizes, and in end two four date school weeks, but you admitted there is no money to pay for that right now. are there is going to be empty promises, given the current economic climate? >> my budget calls for the repayment of the school -- unlike my two colleagaues. ues. worst case scenario, if i cannot find savings elsewhere in the budget, then i would be able to

anday only $510 million a n delay $890 million. we need to repay that. it has resulted in unnecessary borrowing by school districts. my goal is to increase funding for early child education. all day kindergarten. as the economy improves, more people are working, i have a chance to make those investments. the current governor left us with this budget, and that needs to be addressed. >> do you think he can keep those promises -- all day kindergarten, smaller class sizes? >> not under the budget he's got. he's $1 billion short. he is making spending promises.

people are going to vote a week from tuesday and they expect whoever they elect to this position as delivering on what they talk about. the $1 billion short and suggesting maybe it will be from the shift, again, it would be helpful if you would point out a detailed budget that shows where the spending cuts would be or how did the tax increases will be, will they will touch for the $5 billion in new spending that you are proposing. we put out a budget proposal that talks about k-12. it raises a commitment by $500 billion. >> but a half billion less than schools say they need. >> it is a half a billion less

than the people that are projecting it has to grow without reform. if you are going to continue to invest, because it should not just be about more money. if money were the only issue when it came to education, then washington, d.c., would have the best public schools and the country and that is not the case. it has to be about setting high standards and being able to measure the performance. three word. we will increase the commitment as we get the performance. we need to free up our teaching professionals and our schools to allocate the ample resources we already have to the kids. as to be in the best interests of the students. it is measure, record, and reward. you need to be able to measure and report the outcome is apparent. then you need to start to reward good teachers and good schools by paying more for results. >> you've said that schools do not deserve a blank check, but

you do propose more funding for education. >> i think we ought to put more money into early childhood education. when you have 50% of children coming into kindergarten not prepared, it is no wonder that among fourth and eighth graders, fewer than four and a are proficient in reading. i greatly disagreed with it whentorda dayton -- everything is a priority, nothing is a priority. you are planning to the special interest. this has to be an election where we are not putting minnesota up for sale, where we agree that we will make the hard decisions, where we bring a leadership, the tough choices to hold education accountable but also to recognize that our distinct competitive advantage always will be are educated, talented the labor force. that is where we need to make the investment. >> the party has been running a television ad that says that schools under governor pawlenty had been failing our kids and hurting our economy, but by most

measures, we lead the nation in at scores ifopr six years in row. do any of you here believe that minnesota's schools are failing write no and hurting our economy? >> there are children all over minnesota that are not getting it the education they need, especially to those at risk children. when i go to rochester minnesota, elementary school, and i see 35 children in a fifth grade classroom with one children. as someone that taught in any york city's school, you cannot reach individually that number of schoolchildren. we definitely do need to provide the kind of a small group assistance, especially those children and second, third, fourth grade that are reading below grade level. they do one minute reading out

loud. they can determine which kids are reading below grade level. with individual attention or small group, 85% of those children are reading above grade level by the end of the school year. >> how to explain the high achievement of minnesota since despite people who are more doomsday scenario painters? >> we have a great tradition of education in our state, and we should be proud of our kids and our teachers. our kids' computer well in science and math internationally. in reading, we had always been a leader, but over the last 20 years, other states have started to pass us by. when we talk about the future, we talk about measure, record, and reward, and we have to talk about real reforms -- alternative teacher licensure. there are a lot of folks out there -- the union boss does not like it very much, but we have a

shortage on the horizon of qualified math and science teachers. we have our resources out there already. we need to create opportunities for people who have had success in the business world to be able to come into the classroom and use that success by helping us bring the next generation into the 21st century. >> it will always be in lockstep with education minnesota or would you be willing to break from them? >> if anything know about me, after my 35 years of public service, that i am my own man what is back -- i will be thinking about what is best for the people of minnesota? what is best for our school children? >> in 35 years, you never made a promise that he will not make it satisfies a special interest groups. it is policy makers that have failed education, teachers, parents, children. and it comes when it the democrats will not say no to

education minnesota, but it also comes when republicans pay lip service to local control and go ahead and impose such rigidity that they cannot teach. we need to allow teachers to teach. we need great principles to have autonomy. here is the problem. this afternoon, i was at a form of latino parents. i was the only candidate who showed up. the reality in minnesota -- 60% of hispanics and african- americans and our graduating from high school. 40% or not in the four year measure. that is not acceptable. whether we are competing fairly with the south dakota, north dakota or other states, we are not doing well by minnesota standards, and it goes right back to the partisan politics that is heard in minnesota and the lack of leadership we have had appeared >> that concludes our discussion of education. we will move on to the import issue of health care. this is not only important in our state, it is a huge issue in

a federal midterm elections. again, we are partnering with our sister station down in the austin-rochester area, abc 6. >> when it comes to health care, minnesota needs to put up $188 million in order to get $1.40 billion in federal monday under the new health care law. where do each of you stand on early enrollment? >> mr. emmer, will start with you come up because the governor, the current republican in office, decided not to do the early octant. what will you do in january? >> i agree with that decision. my two colleagues have been public about the fact that they think that minnesota should automatically jump on board and not only spend -- betsy, i would challenge for a little bit. it has cost $430 million over the next three years. she is talking about leveraging

$1.40 billion. of the 11 states that were given the opportunity for early august and, seven or a accepted. they still do not have the money. what will we do two years from now or four years from now when we are just back in the same position? it is time to look at the system and not necessarily say that what the federal government is suggesting that we opt into is a good idea long term. minnesota figured out how to deliver high-quality care at low cost. under the federal proposal, we do not get measured or reimbursed that way. in fact, the federal law would provide reimbursement based solely on the volume of care. that does not promote innovation. nor do we get reimbursed at the levels we should because we have found a way to deliver high- quality care at low cost. this is not the right idea at this point in time, especially when we are trying to balance

the budget. we should not handcuffed ourselves to another federal program that we will be talking about raising billions of dollars again. we need to be responsible today. we need to balance our budget and make sure we provide the services which we can do without creating long-term financial liabilities that we may never be able to pay. >> this is not free money. some people seem to think it is. >> i am glad that the questioner quoted correctly that the minnesota hospital association -- and my excellent running mate, the state senator, have included in the biennial budget that the governor and legislature put in place for the next biennium. this is the most obvious, common sense decision the next governor can make. $1.4 billion would mean that we

can provide better quality care to the poror and unable hospitals to provide better health care. why is every other hospital saying to us, please, find this early opt in. we need the money for our financial stability so that we can provide better quality health care. is the most of his decision the next governor will make. i will sign it on day one. >> i think the senator is right. i do believe we need to take the early opt in, but not because we get federal dollars. because we have the opportunity to expand access. when you talk to those people that are on the front lines of providing high-quality care, they will tell you -- doctors, hospitals, the other care providers -- they will say that if we do not expand access, if we are not able to take this early opt in, quality will erod. e. one of the reasons why minnesota has done a leader in health care

is because we made it possible to good public policy, through good cooperation with employers and employees, to make sure that businesses are able to provide health care coverage. i know the challenge of that, having run a company. but we now have small businesses around the state that are having to drop coverage, and what we get instead is senator dayton saying that we ought to go to a government run the program, and others saying it we need to convert everything to a voucher system. both of them are wrong. >> the governor called on the attorney general to join a lawsuit. 20 states have joined that. is that a good idea? >> it is about politics. as the ball policy. the health reform bill will not be repealed. let's have an honest conversation about what we need

in health care in minnesota. >> do you favor universal health care coverage in minnesota? >> i think we should look at how we can provide health care for all minnesotans at an affordable cost. to your question about the governor, the federal bill has said that young people up to the age of 26 are now covered under their parents' health care policies. that benefits students and those are just graduated all over the state. cannot deny children coverage for pre-existing conditions. preventative procedures do not require a co-pay. is there anybody that would repeal those good decisions that benefit the people? >> both of my colleagues have been on record saying that they support a single payer. i disagree with both of them. i do not believe that the federal, one size solution fits

all. do you realize in the federal health care bill, every real- estate transaction, i will have to pay money into the federal health care bill to pay for it. what else will we find out over the next few weeks? there is an election on november 2. i think the american people understand the one-size-fits-all solution is not the answer for everybody. minnesota should lead in this area. i do not think -- i think the goal that we both have, which is to make sure everybody has access to the greatest health care the world has seen in minnesota -- i do not think you do it with more government. you do it by creating a system where people get more access because, one, they get more choice and ownership over their own health care. we talked about decoupling health care insurance from inclement. let individuals start to deduct health care insurance premiums, just like we only let employers do know. give us the ownership of our own health care. give is the ownership of the 3000 to 4000 professionals in

this state that design health care coverage that works. finally, why don't you start to address the citizens to care for their own health? let us shop one of the 1300 health insurance products across this country. if you start giving more choice and allowing for more ownership by the individual, you will create more access because there will be more market forces to drive costs down. >> i have to correct that. one of the good things about having 12,875 debates is that there are a lot of recordings out there. i've never said i support government run health care. instead, what you said at health east. i aksedsked you. at another debate, mr. dayton, i guess you do do you support single payer system? you said yes. you cannot keep dancing around

these. we need stability from leaders. winnie the temperament that says i will stick to my answers -- we need the temperament that says i will stick to my answers. >> we will take a break now for a message from the league of women voters. >> hello. we are the co-presidents for league of women voters minnesota. >> on behalf of the minnesota education fund, thank you for watching the gubernatorial debate. please vote november 2. your vote matters. >> for canada information, -- further candidate information is available on our website at www.vote.lwvmn.org. we are i'm being told running short on time. we will get through several more questions here.

let's talk about transportation. we have not heard a lot about transportation in this election cycle, at the state level. there are all kinds of proposals for high-speed rail and light rail expansion throughout the twin cities. do you support this? >> transportation policy should be about moving the greatest number of people and product at the greatest value add for the dollars you are putting in. when you say i have not been supportive. i have been supportive of every transportation option out there, but everyone that we look at -- we need to look at a cost that goes into it. not only the capital cost of construction, long-term costs of maintaining, and how much that will serve the public, how many people and how much product that will move. i think people need to understand, while transit is an important part of our transportation infrastructure and always will be, and we need to find new ways to deliver transit services, 95% of the

people in the state travel by road and bridge. we can work for the next 10 years to double transit ridership and 9 percent of us will still travel by road and bridge. we need to start by maintaining and creating new roads and bridges. >> mr. horner, u.s. said that you favor high-speed rail from here to rochester -- you said you favor high-speed rail from here to rochester. can we afford that? >> the department of transportation estimates that in the next 20 years we will be $65 billion to maintain capacity on our roads and bridges. they have identified $15 billion in funding. we have a $50 clin billion gap. as much as you want to dispute the fact that the state has a new money coming in, the reality is that we will have to look at how we fund the transportation in better ways, because i do believe we need an integrated system that includes a transit, good roads and bridges, and

includes passenger and freight rail. >> can we afford these things and would you favor an increase in the gas tax? >> if you want a real-world example of what happens when government fails to make the necessary investments, look at what has happened with our highway and transportation system in minnesota. if we had the same level from 1990, we would spend $15 billion more. now we are $50 billion behind. that means increased congestion all over the metropolitan area, deterioration of our highways. means our public transit system has lagged behind. i would appoint a legislature to create and a point of transportation finance authority of experts in transportation and transportation finance to tell us independently, what we need? what is the scope of those needs over 50 years? how can we best finance them? we are so far behind, we will need to take significant measures. >> it would you favor a gas tax

increase? >> the funds are limited relative to the scope of the need. we need to look at adopting what other states are doing which is transportation bonds that would provide a much larger scope of projects over a fast a period of time. >> we have one minute left. i want to give each of you 20 seconds to respond. we are in the waning days of the campaign. there have been a lot of negative ads out there. mr. dayton, is it a problem? is it a personal attack for somebody to go after u.s. senate record? >> i do not consider that a personal attack. i think some of them have distorted the situation so badly. those are independent expenditures. what we need in state government is instant recording of where every dollar is coming from so people can assess for themselves. >> are special interest groups going to spend $600,000

criticizing you about a couple of dui arrest. >> i cannot control what they do through the alliance for better minnesota. that was 20 years ago. i learned from my mistake. never walked away from this. i would say this. we are going to keep running positive ads. i feel for the family in that ad. i would say, have said, that it is being politicized. if it helps one person not make this a mistake, run it as much as you want. >> you do not get off the hook just by washing your hands and saying they are independent expenditure groups. they are your family, the kinds of people you are bringing into the state, and i think it is appalling. >> it is time for closing statements. >> of all i want to follow up on that very point. there is a reason why every major newspaper in this state with one or two exceptions, why every former governor has

endorsed, why partisan republicans and democrats have said that this is the year they will vote independent and in some cases for the first time that they will vote for a nonmember of their party. it is because i have offered the leadership, the vision. i am the one that said, here is how we break the gridlock. i have a career of offering stability, the temperament to lead, the experience to bring people to get. when we see the most partisan kind of interest being played to by rep emmer and senator dayton, now minnesota is for sale to the highest bidder of partisan interests. this is not above minnesota being a better state. it is about how minnesota becomes the best state and that is why i am asking for your vote november 2. >> there are three people running. thanks, tom. i would say to people

watching, there are three people running. my colleagues offer the same messages -- raised billions of taxes and where to cut services. they are running to represent the interests of government, as opposed to the people. we believe there should be a new direction in this state. we should have a government that works for a is to be smaller, more efficient. it can still deliver the services we expect but it lives within its means. at the start growing jobs again in this state, because we have to get minnesota back to work. that is not a republican, democrat, or independent ideal. together, on november 2 that will be the choice. we are confident that minnesota will agree with us and help us make our vision a reality. i hope it will support us on november 2. >> in this election is about the future of minnesota. it is about your future. there is a clear difference among us three candidates. my two colleagues up here would raise taxes on middle income taxpayers by extending the sales tax on clothing and personal

services like car repairs or they will cause property taxes to increase. that is a burden that falls heavily on middle income taxpayers and small businesses. i will protect middle income taxpayers from paying higher taxes. i will ask the wealthiest to pay more in taxes so we can make our tax is fair and minnesota. i will invest that money and better education, better quality health care, better quality public services. i will bring in management experts, based on my expertise heading three different state agencies to help find efficiencies to reduce the cost of government and provide better quality services to the people of minnesota. because i know that your hard- earned tax dollars deserve to be spent as efficiently as possible. working together, we will make a better minnesota. >> i want to thank the three candidates for overcoming their debate fatigue to be here tonight. we do appreciate it. let's give them all round of applause as we finish up.

again, my thanks to metro state university and the league of women voters. election day is november 2. we hope to see you at the polls. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> more campaign covered up next on c-span. now, a debate for colorado's fourth congressional seat with betsy markey, cory gardner, doug aden and independent "post- bulletiken waszkiewicz. later, first lady michelle obama campaigns in washington state for senator patty murray. on tomorrow as "washington journal", a look at next week's elections and efforts by the tea party. sal russo joins us. then a discussion on the

hispanic vote. our guest.ilkes is then rising college debt among recent graduates. "washington journal" each morning at 7:00 eastern. later, a forum on green energy policy and what it could mean for businesses and the economy. live coverage from the atlantic begins at 8:30 a.m. eastern on c-span 2. >> it is time to get your camera rolling for c-span's documentary competition. make a five-a minute video on washington, d.c. through my lens. you could win the grand prize of $5,000. the deadline is january 20, 2011. for details, go to studentcam.org.

>> democratic incumbent betsy markey, republican cory gardner, constitutional canada it doug aden, and independent ken waszkiewicz. before the district of colorado includes the city of fort collins and loveland. >> a special report, campaign 2010. the fourth congressional district presented by northern colorado 5. now, here is your host, keith weinman. >> welcome everybody. welcome to northern colorado 5

campaign 2010. i think you are expecting to have a good time tonight. [applause] i think we can provide it and make it -- it is our duty to provide you with information to allow you the information of who will represent you in government. this hour will focus on colorado's fourth congressional district. opening remarks from all of the candidates. then each candidate will have a chance to respond to questions from our panel. then in the second half we will have some fun. we will relax the rules a little bit. we will have the panel direct questions at individual candidates. then closing remarks. first, information about the people who will be asking the questions this evening. first up, mr. tom livingston. a pleasure to work with you. tom is a senior reporter with "

northern colorado 5. dawn is the owner of a small business that has been operating for 15 years. next up is matthew, thank you for your time. he graduated from the university of northern colorado in make- this year with a degree in marketing -- graduated in may this year. christine have been with "the herald" for 15 years. please hold your applause until the end of the hour. we will try to cover a lot of ground this evening. important issues that face us in northern california -- northern colorado. we want to devote as much time to those issues as to the

questions and answers. if all goes as planned there will be plenty of time to involve you in this process at the end. we have some specific questions for you. we have asked you to please tell -- turn your cell phones off. those interruptions will cost us time. i would like to start with opening remarks. the candidates during numbers to establish the opening of their opening remarks. we have asked candidates to hold their opening remarks to two minutes or less. there are timers that will give the candidates time cues. first with opening remarks this evening is k. -- is ken waszkiewicz. >> my name is ken waszkiewicz. i am the only independent candidate. i have made it this far by not excepting a dime from anyone in providing solutions to the

problems our country faces. i am not a puppet to the gop or the dnc. all i am the only candidate in the position to represent you. i have been creating videos that create solutions to the biggest problems. i understand the elite media and major parties don't think i in i andrthy, -- don't think newsworthy, but to many americans i am newsworthy. i will finally be represented in washington. i am not a millionaire or a lawyer and i don't have a political science degree, but what i do have is common sense and morals, which is what is missing in today's leadership. fighting an uphill battle will not stop me from being the voice of um hurtt americans. -- unheard americans.

i am strong enough to represent the people of colorado. help me show washington that the people still run this country, not lawyers, career politicians. learn more about me and my solutions at my website. thank you. >> thank you. next up with an opening statement, rep betsy markey. >> thank you for being here. i was not your typical congressman when i was elected. i spent most of my adult life raising three children. i own two businesses. one was a coffee shop and the other was a high-tech firm my husband and i started. i understand it challenges of meeting the payroll, not taking a salary when you have to imply -- have to pay your employees, finding affordable health insurance for your employees. business is not red or blue.

in order to be successful you need to be able to work with everyone. i know that i had anchored people on the left and right with some of my votes -- i have angered people. i don't represent a political ideology, i represent the people of the fourth congressional district. if you want a small-business owner, someone who has won the chamber of commerce spirit of enterprise award and someone who believes investment in renewable energy is a good idea, someone who has won the endorsements of the nra, and the alliance of older americans, someone who can stand up to her own party regarding government spending, then i am your woman. i am one of seven children and my parents instilled in us the value of hard work, integrity,

personal response ability and patience. it is our children who will suffer if we ignore the balance -- in order devalues is my parents took so seriously. >> next up is doug aden. >> to start out with, i have not been able to talk to each one of you. i want to give you an idea of who i am. i grew up on a small acreage outside of brighton, colorado. i went to colorado state university to study engineering. my father worked for frontier airlines and became concerned about his future employment. he purchased a small business and i left school to help them operate it. a few months later his foresight proved correct as the airline went out of business. i returned to csu with a new found love, that was business. i worked as an accountant in

several different companies. i now operate my own manufacturing company. i manufactured u.s. products based in colorado. my wife and i started our relationship in college. we have had six children. we lost our only daughter to bring cancer -- a few years ago. we have cattles, goats, chickens. i see these various life experiences as great assets. i ask for your consideration. >> thank you , next up, cory gardner. >> i would like to think the organizers of tonight's event for putting this together. thank you to the three of you who are here tonight to share with the voters their vision for a stronger america. my name as cory gardner, and it is time we get this economy

moving again. that we start creating jobs and opportunity. i grew up in a little town on the eastern plains. i think there are more people in this room and my high school combined. there are quite a few people here. i grew up in the family business and learn what it was like to balance the checkbook. to make payroll, run a business in the face of increasing regulations. from denver to washington, either in a lot about farming and ranching and what it takes to make their small businesses work. the fact that they have to live under higher taxes, more spending, creasing debt, and this nation as a whole faces 14 trillion dollars in debt -- faces $14 trillion. a government that decided it understand it wants to run our lives and businesses better than us. but we cannot run this campaign by saying what is wrong with this country. we will win this campaign, we

will win this country's future by running on solutions and ideas. that is why i developed the 2010 plan, ideas to get this economy running again. i am running for congress because we have got to cut spending. we have to end the waist and disregard of the text. dollar and get government out of the way to let people work. move our economy to create jobs, small business accounts that will allow people to invest in hiring new people and greater opportunities. we have a great country, and i look forward over the next 14 days to joining with you as we work together to revitalize the greatness of this nation so that we can stand up and know that better opportunities lie ahead. >> thank you. our first question and answer segment, candidates have been asked to limit their answers to 90 seconds or less. candidates are in alphabetical order from left to right. they will answer sequentially.

our first question is from tom livingston with the answer from doug aden. >> good evening to all the candidates. my first question is what is the top priority in the fourth congressional district you will bring to washington to address? >> obviously the number one concern i hear from people is jobs. johnson is what we need in this district as well as the rest of the country -- jobs is what we need in this district. with my business background and experience in accounting dealing with the fiscal woes of this country is something i feel i am qualified to do. i expect we will have that opportunity in the near future. >> cory gardner. >> i will take the interests of

the people of the fourth congressional district to washington to make sure we are standing up for our first principles of limited government and when we send somebody to washington we are sending them to represent the people of the fourth congressional district and the constitution of this country. we have to get this economy moving forward together and we cannot do it when washington and the bureaucrats within the beltway continue to drive our decisions for us. our nation is facing a debt of incredible proportions. everyone of us in this room those over $40,000. i will take solutions and ideas to our nation's capital and make sure the voice of the people is represented, not the voice of the special interests. i believe the answers come from every one of us in this room, not from some in washington. the people in this room represent the best of the future of this country. my daughter is in this room.

we have to make sure they continue to be blessed with the same opportunities each of us has been blessed with. >> betsy markey. >> absolutely it has to be jobs. when i ran in 2008 talking about the importance of creating good paying jobs in this country. small businesses like the one i own create 99% of the jobs in this country. we have to get a credit flowing to our small banks so that our small businesses can get moving again. that is what i was focused on two years ago and today. a couple months ago we passed this small business lending act which will allow more small businesses to get access to capital through our community banks.

i own a small coffee shop and most of my employees were cfu graduates, so i had an interest in making sure there are good paying jobs available for graduates when they get out of college. >> ken waszkiewicz. >> as i show in my videos step by step on how to accomplish goals for everybody. this is not just a generality i throw out kut it is specifics. it involves colorado and have been colorado's lead the way.

>> thank you. our next question is from dan griffen with the answer from cory gardner. >> thank you for being here. this is my first time doing this. i was very impressed recently on a mailing service, the post office said for the fourth year in a row we want more money. more increases from out of the pockets of hard-working americans. the postal commissioners recognize adding this tax to the customer is in the american citizens would not fix the financial troubles they have gotten into. by continuing to disembark on their products -- it was actual structural issues they needed to fix. they needed to become more competitive and do their jobs as a business. i am wondering if any of you

know why this approach was not taken instead of the bailout for the insurance industry's, the banks, and tell them to restructure to make your business work? >> it is a great question. i opposed the bailouts. i also mean i opposed things like cash for clunkers. the bailouts of the labor organizations. the bailouts that have handed to people of this country and pick winners and losers. my opponent said she voted against the bailouts. she was not even in congress when the vote occurred. we have to put real solutions in place in this nation. we have to apply private-sector solutions across government where we can make sure ideas from the private sector are used and put in place. when it comes to health care, to make sure we are using private-

sector solutions for health care to make our programs more efficient. we have to have people who will look from the bottom up throughout every department of government to make sure we are putting in place ideas that represent the best in this country. to make sure we are getting rid of the a peaceful waste of taxpayer dollars we see every day. -- get rid of the abusive waste. it is picking winners and losers and it's wrong. >> thank you, betsy markey. >> to correct you, i was in congress when we did the second vote on the troubled asset relief program. i did vote against it, but i don't need to be lectured by someone who wants to create a tax on the wind.

in my day earth, wind and fire was a band and not a source of revenue. i did propose the wall street bailouts because i did not think we should be bailing out the same banks that created the problems and there was nothing in it for small community banks. they create most of the jobs in this country. beyond that, i think the federal government needs to be restructured. last year i voted against the president's 2010 budget. the third attack on me came out today and if it said betsy markey voted for the president's 2010 low the budget. i voted against the budget because i thought it was too big. my question to cory gardner is was this a careless mistake,

because carelessness can lead to recklessness? or was this deliberate. in which case that goes to , can we trust you? did you deliberately lied, or was that a mistake? will you take the ad down? [applause] >> thank you. please let us go to the end. we are burning valuable time. there will be time for you to address what ever you want in the second half of the hour. >> [inaudible] >> we will go back to it. >> in the middle of this. >> it is in the second half of the hour. ken waszkiewicz. >> i would like both of you to leave your egos at the door and

let's talk about solutions. nobody cares about pointing blame anymore. to answer your question, you have to pay off the people who got you elected. that is why they bailed out these people. as an independent, and i am not beholden to these groups because all i want to do is represent the people. if we are looking for solutions for the postal service, i would look into privatizing. it would start here in colorado to see how it goes. let's check it out to see if it will be a good idea. >> thank you. doug aden. >> i am no more a proponent of big corporations than i am of big government. i desire to represent individuals and their small businesses.

off the top of my head i cannot fathom how the bailouts were constitutional. regardless it is that the government's position to play favorites as to which companies will survive in their industries. the banks on the other hand did not have much of its choice. the federal reserve act relieves them from the duty of acting responsibly. >> thank you. our next question from matthew with the first answer from betsy markey. >> as a recent graduate and lifetime colorado, i am interested in northern colorado's future. i am feeling the sting of the economy. a degree it is of minimal were it not accompanied by years of experience. with recent explosion of layoffs, we are no longer

competing against other graduates but those in their fields for five or 10 years. what will you do to curb the unemployment so we may retain the young minds of our institutions rather than losing these graduates? >> thank you very much. i understand what your talking about. i have three children as well. it took several months for both of them before they were able to find a job. it is tough in this economy. we need to make sure we are supporting our small businesses which are, the creators. i was very proud of the fact that companies recently got $400 million of loan guarantees. this is a loan guarantees so they are able to access private capital. they will be able to estimate to create up to 1500 new jobs.

this is the area of the future, renewable energy. i think as much as we can do to help those industries, whether it is in the renewable energy or sciences, we need to do that. we also have a lot of great programs through technology transfer. cfu as a great program where they make research and create jobs. thank you. >> ken waszkiewicz. >> i understand where you're coming from i got a degree in human nutrition. i have done every single job but the one i went to school for. look at where i am at now. i go one step further than just giving money to small business

administration. it is having a goal. government should have a goal and should provide the interest portion -- provide the inspiration for us to achieve the goal and get out of our way. the colorado energy revolution says by 2020 we will create enough energy to not only sustain our country, to sustain the world. we will start here in colorado. we are blessed with every single energy source you can think of. it will involve a person getting these groups from wind, solar, natural gas and oil to come together and tell them we see the pluses and minuses of your energy source. we want you to make it better. then we will see what they can do. >> doug aden. >> last week i heard there was 85% of college students planning on moving back with their

parents after they graduate. the most important thing that should be done is temporarily extending the tax cuts. if we are not extending it for the upper income levels it will potentially translate to 12,000 jobs in colorado left each year. then we have to begin the process of evaluating each of the departments within the federal government and determining how we can reduce the insatiable appetite of the federal government. these reductions in spending will get as to the position where we can permanently reduce the income tax rates. >> cory gardner. >> i am a graduate of colorado state university as well. i am concerned about what happens when it comes to creating jobs. one of the biggest impediments to creating jobs is a government that continues to over regulate, a government that is bent on

working cap and trade policies not just through the legislature, but through the administrative process. i believe we have to extend the tax cuts this january. if we do not extend this tax cuts the fourth congressional district will lose 1800 jobs a year. just in the fourth congressional district. it could cost each household over 50 -- over $5,000 a year. to create jobs we also have to have a plan. like the american energy plan which is a way to create new energy to get people working to help wean ourselves off of oil that comes from overseas, to make sure revitalizing renewable energy resources. i mentioned small business savings account which would allow each of us to say for creating jobs so that when people are ready to hire and begin their business, they have an account they can do that from. we also have to address the economic uncertainty dossers

station. there is $1.8 trillion sitting on the sideline. we have to get rid of policies like the failed health care takeover, tcap and trade policy, a car check bill that makes businesses more hesitant to create jobs in this nation. >> thank you , the next question is from khristine with the first answer from ken waszkiewicz. >> what do we need to do to -- >> pull the microphone close to you. >> what do we need to do to reduce or eliminate the national debt? >> ideas with the colorado energy revolution. -- it specifically says by 2020 to produce enough energy, but it is involving everybody. not just saying we will look at one source or hope if we give you guys money they will come up with an idea.

i have solutions for this. i want everybody out there from the energy -- wind power, whatever resources you have, to present us your best solutions to achieve this goal. we are all in this together. it is not partisan politics. we are all in this together. when you create that need, you will have a demand for it. you are going to have to create the jobs for that technology. it just trickles down from there. it starts with having a goal in mind. >> thank you, doug aden is next. >> we need to get the economy rolling again. the only way we will create jobs, meaningful jobs for americans is to establish and look at the possibility of using tariffs which is a

constitutional form of raising revenue so that we can encourage companies to compete. we set aside what we have as differences for the environmental issues we want to have, benefits we want to have and compare those to those that are in china or india or wherever the product is coming from. and adjust the price so our companies can be competitive. once they feel like it is economically feasible for them to hire, then they will do that. it will stimulate the economy. that will give us the opportunity to look into ways that we can streamline our government and eventually we will be able -- it is a long process but we will be able to eliminate the debt and individual income tax. >> cory gardner. >> i cannot remember who said it but i believe there are philosophies about washington

went something like this, they seem to have an answer to everything. don't just stand there, spends something. talk about a shovel-ready project we don't need. it is digging more into debt. we have to pass a constitutional budget amendment. we have to cut spending. that begins by taking spending back to pre-stimulus levels. it begins by agencies doing the same things -- reducing areas of waste and government costing us over $100 billion a year. it begins by changing our policy when it comes to our fiscal system. we are spending billions of dollars in interest payments we were not before. it deals with going back and eliminating programs that have been created by this government. we have to make sure we are not increasing the burden on future generations.

if we create policies that will integrate the growth of these nations then we will be able to lower the death and balance the budget and bring ourselves out of deficit because we had a buyer -- revitalized economy. that is what we have to do. but it starts with the first rule, quit digging. >> betsy markey. >> when i first came to congress one of the things i did with another group of freshman business owners was to demand weaver 8 -- reinstitute pay-as- you-go rules. which means that if you cut taxes or you had a new government program you have to find someplace in the budget to cut. i have also introduced a targeted deficit act that requires agencies to reduce their deficit to meet certain production goals. such things as eliminating

travel for government employees. the government needs to take a cue from the private sector that uses teleconferencing. i introduce legislation that was passed with a republican colleague because we have to work together, which would have it passed in the house and senate that requires all states that have not used their transportation money to return it to the treasury. over 300 projects were not billed. that money has to go back to the treasury. i have done things like vote against the president's budget contrary to the latest attack at because i thought it was too big. i also voted against half of the appropriation bills because every agency needs to find deeper cuts in their budget. >> thank you. we are going to move into the second half. this is the one in which we will listen the rules.

our panelists can ask questions -- our panelists can ask questions directed specifically at the candidate of their choice. these are direct questions. let's deal with them with direct answers. the shortest possible answer that cuts right to the most important point. during this segment i have the option of offering other candidates time to respond to the question and to your answer. you may not do that with every question. let's see where it goes. the first question is tom livingston. >> this question will go to rep markey. do you believe your voting record represents the position of your constituency? >> yes. [laughter] i absolutely do.

i absolutely do. i would say i have toed the line on fiscal issues. i have voted against the president's budget. i voted against half of the appropriation bills. i do think that. i have been a proud supporter of the health care reform bill which will save -- [applause] which is estimated to cover those with pre-existing conditions to allow children like many of us who have young college graduates stay on their parents' policy until age 26. which will allow small businesses to get a 35% tax credit if they choose to cover their employees. which will allow insurance companies to write policies across state lines.

this represents the wishes of the fourth congressional district. i am proud of my record. [applause] >> cory gardner. >> i would not be running for congress if i were proud of your record. [laughter] [applause] my opponent has voted with nancy pelosi 94% of the time. here is a mail piece sent courtesy of the u.s. taxpayers that says congress can only spend a dollar if it saves a dollar somewhere else. in the first 50 days my opponent was in progress she spent $1 billion an hour. for a total of 1.2 -- $1.2 trillion in new spending. i don't believe your voting record is reflective of this district. i don't think nancy pelosi is the answer to our health care solutions. i believe we can create stronger

opportunities without higher taxes, without a health care bill that increases taxes by $525 billion. without costing seniors their health-care insurance. that allows us to make our decisions instead of a government. it is my belief that the people of this district believe that the government should work for them, and we should not have to work for the government. >> ken waszkiewicz, doug aden, do either of you have one point to add to this question? >> i have not have health insurance in eight years and have not gone to a doctor in that amount of time. i looked at my costs for next year. i still cannot afford it, so i see the good parts of that bill i want it repealed. because it needs to be broken up into -- [applause]

it needs to be broken up and specifically address the affordability, accessibility, quality of care and philanthropy. >> quickly, doug aden. >> a poll in august of this year stated 67% of the political class bullies we are going in the right direction. -- believes we are going in the right direction. 84% believe we are going in the wrong direction. >> that is a point we will go back to. the next question from dawn. >> thank you. this question is for cory gardner. many members of congress were accused of having very little knowledge of what was in the health-care bill. now that we have learned the hidden things within it will use support its repeal? >> i support the repeal of the

health care bill, and it in its place we put in real solutions that will do what it is intended to do, of which is to lower the cost of health care. we need to put in real solutions in its place. nancy pelosi said you have to pass the health care bill to know what is in the health-care bill. if you look at the 1099 provisions, the only question for people who voted for the bill is this, you either read the bill and voted for it even though the provision was in it, or you read the bill and decided you had to vote for it because the provision. you either agree with it and voted for it, or you voted for the bill because you did not know who is in there. >> that was a yes. let's go down the road. betsy markey. >> it is my job -- i would not repeal the health

care bill. there are many good provisions that are good and are necessary. there are other things that need to be fixed. the 1099 issue is something that needs to be fixed. last month i sent a letter and said this is something we have to work on. the fact that the matter is let's not forget about the really positive things in the bill. it is estimated in the next 20 years as most of these savings are in the 10-20 year time frame that the bill by covering everyone, looking at cost containment, that we will be reducing the deficit by $1.3 trillion, probably the largest reduction measure i will ever vote for. just last week a woman came up to me and had breast cancer. her insurance just cut her off. they said you have reached your lifetime limit. guess what? that cannot happen anymore. i am proud of this bill.

there are things that need to be fixed. you cannot get 435 members of congress to agree on everything. you know that being in the legislature. if you don't agree with 100%, but it is a solid start to reforming our health care system. >> ken waszkiewicz. [applause] yes or no, would you vote to repeal the healthcare bill? >> yes. >> if doug aden. >> yes. [applause] >> sabathia. -- matthew. direct a question at the candidate of your choice. >> this is for betsy markey. you discuss on your web site your view of higher education. you mentioned you are in favor of recent legislation to help students of higher education. it is no secret colorado does not prioritize higher education as it sounds like you do. colorado is near the bottom of finding all education.

tell me how you plan to go beyond that legislation and championed higher education in a state that is usually opposed to such increases. >> i think one of the best things we did this year with a little-known bill is the student higher ed , by taking out the middleman in the student loan process we were able to put more money into higher education. this bill by running the loans through the department of education say is $80 billion over 10 years. the rest of the money went back into higher education in the form of lower interest rates on student loans and increased pell grants. i think that we need to continue to do everything we can to decrease the interest rate on student loans. when i went to college i did not take out a student loan. i worked my way through college, but it was cheap and and you could do that. i know we need to do everything we can so students are not

graduate in -- i talked to a couple students the other day. they will be graduating with $40,000 worth of debt. whatever we can do to make sure we keep those interest rates low. >> it is a valid question that has significant impact in northern colorado. let's spread it around. >> the question of higher education funding in the state legislature, i voted against a bill that granted the power of the university to increase tuition dramatically. i also worked with my colleagues to develop an idea that would have provided significant funding resources for our higher education system. i in a colorado state graduate as well. i am concerned about the opportunities that will be available for graduates in people hoping to go to school. when was the last time you heard government take over programs to save money? [laughter] >> doug aden. >> i was on the csu campus last

week after 20 years. i was absolutely amidst at the billions of dollars that has gone into the changes on that campus. this spring i am in that position of having two students that are of college age. since i have not had the ability to put away thousands of dollars we have had that discussion in our home. one of boston's is planning on actually taking college courses -- one of my sons is planning on taking college courses on line. if they want to continue to remain competitive with the alternatives they are going to have to examine their operations. . ken waszkiewicz, quickly. >> a couple of things on that. we will need people of higher education in the colorado energy

revolution, so it must stay in there. why are these costs going up? is it because we are building fancy buildings? is that what we are doing? is there any way to make this more efficient? whether it is having more classes? why don't we look into making things efficient? if we are that hard up with money why don't we look into research and development groups at school -- look into the idea of legalizing drugs, prostitution, gambling and see what kind of benefit you can get out of that. you think it is a funny idea. have you ever looked into it? >> yes or no answer. for ken waszkiewicz on legalizing drugs and constitution for tax benefits. >> doug aden. yes or no? >> no.

no. >> next question from christine. >> my address this to cory gardner. more than 70% of farm subsidies go to the largest tim% of businesses. would you support cutting subsidies? >> thank you. agriculture is the lifeblood of this state. i come from a proud community that is very rich in agricultural heritage. learning a lot about agriculture and what it takes to help agriculture successfully. one of the things that is so complicated about our system that goes back to the 1996 farm bill when it created a series followed up by the 2002 farm bill which created a series of subsidy payments, counter cyclical payments, the world

trade organization had systems that was to compete with people like the european union who are subsidizing their agriculture. as a result our farm communities ended up with things like cut reciprocal payments. i look forward to working with people like the colorado farm bureau on an adequate safety net for ranchers. >> christine, would you like input from the other candidates? >> would you like to move on to another question? we will go back the other way. another question from christine. >> [inaudible] >> let's see if we can move very quickly and make it back through the panel before we do closing statements. >> betsy markey, could you define your vision for promoting a grain economy? >> -- green and economy?

>> we are poised to change the way we power this country. northern colorado has unparalleled resource for wind, solar. we need to make sure that we are investing in these technologies because not only will they provide the jobs of this future, but they will help reduce our dependence on foreign oil. right now we import over $1 billion a day in oil from overseas. some from countries that don't share our values. some of that same money goes into the hands of the terrorists we are fighting. it has to stop. if you look at logan county, last year they received over $300 million in increased property tax revenue from the wind. over $1 million in plant releases. it is not just good for the environment, it is good for our national security and jobs. >> the magic word is wind. you have had something to say

about wind. >> thank you, i deferred to congress on matters that are full of wind. [laughter] i would like to address an issue that congresswoman markey introduced earlier, a bill to make sure we protect private property rights as nothing to do with taxes. if you read the constitution you know that is untrue. i would like to talk a little bit about energy. in the legislature i created the clean energy development authority, which is a way to bring investment to help create a renewable energy opportunities. i also made sure we had chances to develop traditional energy resources. we can do it responsibly. we have the opportunity with the american energy plan to make sure we are developing jobs and weaning ourselves off of jobs from overseas. we can do that, but if you look at policies like the cap and trade bill, it will hurt our economy. don't just take that word from

the think tanks in washington. take it from our neighbors in rural colorado. here is a letter from an electrical association. it says no matter where you stand on clement legislation, at this bill will cause major economic harm in northeast colorado and southwest nebraska. if you irritate your farmland's you will pay $700 more per meter. this will drive up the cost of fertilizer, farm equipment. we can do better but we don't need to do it with the greatest tax increase in the country's history. [applause] >> betsy markey,, very short. >> cory gardner, you did submit a bill in the legislature that would tax the wind that blows on people's property. as a matter of fact, this is some of the fiscal notes from the nonpartisan legislative council. it says here about your bill,

county assessors would need to have created a separate winded writes tax schedules and to value that right for tax purposes. it would have created a new tax on the wind that blows across your property. >> thank you, if you read the colorado constitution its says you cannot create brand new taxes without a vote of the people. that is not the bill. the bill does not talk about taxes. the constitution, at taxpayer bill of rights says if you are going to increase taxes, et it is a vote of the people. read the bill. [applause] >> ken waszkiewicz and d, we are pushing the clock. -- doug aden, we are pushing the clock. your shortest possible response about your question to alternative energy. >> it is included in my energy

revolution. >> we need to utilize all of our energy sources any way we can do -- until everything is -- until we get the technology in place to make it all into the type of economically feasible that we are looking for. >> at the beginning of the program we told you the candidates had drawn numbers to establish the order for their opening statements. we reversed those numbers for their closing statements. we have also asked the candidates to keep closing statements to two minutes or less. if there is anything you wanted us to cover that we did not, do it in short form here. first up, cory gardner. >> these are closing statements? thank you to the organizers of tonight's event. i would like to thank my dad, wife and our daughter who are with us tonight. there are people in this room who are suffering under the

policies of this government. there is a small-business owner from fort collins who said thanks to this health care bill that passed he believes his health-care rates for his business that employs 130 people will increase between 25%-40%. we know the government's own bureaucrats have said healthcare costs will increase on average 13%. we know that we can do better in this country. we know that over the next 14 days the voters will go fill out their ballots or go to the ballot box and decide what kind of a nation we are going to live in. whether to see a nation of more government and less freedom, or whether it is a nation where we will continue to provide economic opportunity to cut spending to get our nation back on track. my background in world color brought out and a family farm equipment dealership -- background in rural colorado.

my grandparents during world war ii went to portland to weld liberty ships because they believed they had to be a part of this nation's fight to restore democracy, uphold democracy back, to fight for freedom. we have a chance to go to the ballot box and do something that so many generations have done before us. to stand up for our freedom, to stand up for our liberty in a peaceful way. to make sure that opportunities we were blessed with continue. we can do better in this nation. i am cory gardner. i would be honored to warn your support. we will win and we will restore once again the greatest nation on the face of this earth. >> thank you. [applause] >> doug aden. >> the more i study u.s. history

the more i recognize the brilliance of thomas jefferson. he once said, i predict future happiness for americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. i could not agree more. [applause] that is why i stand for the principles of self government, tending on limiting federal government, strength in the free-market spot, and protecting us -- protecting personal property rights. for the future generations, i urge you please vote for the candidates that will support liberty, justice, and prosperity for all. [applause] >> thank you. betsy markey. >> i would like to thank everyone for coming this evening. i want to end with a short story.

i had a favorite customer who came into the store every day and he would get either a cup of coffee or a bowl of ice cream into some soup. he was 96-years old and had parkinson's disease, so every time he went to pay his hands would shake when he was making change. my own father had parkinson's disease. i remember how it robert a very proud man -- robbed a man of his dignity. whatever he wanted cost exactly $1 because after all, a dollar bill is easier to manage or shaking hands and loose change. that is what i learned in business. you can turn a profit, keep to a budget, and give a man his dignity all at the same time. if we can do that in business, then we can certainly do it in government as well. i talked a lot about my experience as a business owner

because it defines to i am as a person. i spent 22 years in business and 24 years as a mother and two as an elected official. i am blessed with three wonderful children come up with a husband who has loved me for more than 30 years. i believe we need to govern with faith in the fundamental decency of all human beings, with optimism for the potential of the future of this great country. i hardly ask for your vote this november. thank you. -- i humbly ask for your vote. [applause] >> ken waszkiewicz. >> the two major parties want you to believe they have changed and our best to represent you, yet they continue politics as usual, wasting money,

manipulating our elections, and blaming each other for everything. it is time we stop ignoring the problems that a two-party system creates. i believe there are more people devoted to the principles and values that they are to a political party. they have been waiting for the time when someone will stand up for them. as your representative, i will not vote for any bill that takes away your freedom as an american, or vote for any bill i have not read. i will not vote -- [applause] i will not go along any party lines, especially against the demands of my district. nor will i vote to spend money we don't have which will add debt to our children's future. i will not put myself above anyone so i can seek a career promotion. i pledge to work for you to create jobs with my colorado energy solution, simplify the tax code, 11 a career

politicians by enacting term limits -- eliminating career politicians, the influence of special interest money and focusing america on unitym not diversity. i stepped up against all odds to make a difference so that our children and grandchildren will not have to deal with the trillions of dollars of debt and turmoil our country is in created by the democrat and republican parties. i am not a politician and don't aspire to be one. i am not seeking a career promotion. i need your vote to get this message to washington. we have had enough. my name is ken waszkiewicz. i would appreciate your vote. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. all of our questions have been

for the candidates. by applause , who walked into night and decided? [laughter] -- who walked in whoundecided -- undecided? who walked in and decided and reaffirm to your decision? [applause] >> that is what the process is all about. our thanks to the event center who has been wonderful hosts. this campaign 2000 event will be available on noco.com. for information, go to noco5.com/ thanks to all who may this happen. remember to watch the news remember to watch the news weekni