>> republican ran paul and jack conway had their final debate last night. that's next on c-span and on this morning's "washington journal" we'll look at the tea party movement and a discussion top hispanic vote. "washington journal" begins at the top of the hour. >> one of the great features of the c-span public library is to be able to clip and share

articles with your friends. that includes more than 100 debates aired on c-span if your new, search find and share with the c span video library. >> now kentucky u.s. senate candidate. a participation in the final debate in lexington, kentucky. the cook political race report rates this a tight race. this is court see of kentucky education television. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> welcome to kentucky tonight. tonight we'll focus on the u.s. senate race. our guests are jack conway of the democratic party and rand paul of the republican party. thanks for joining us.

>> the herald leader said saturday the war of commercials has been dominated by broadsides against the candidates noninformation about proposals. raymond blight of frankfurt wrote, after months of listening to the constant negative ads that inform me all the reasons why i should not vote for the other guy, i would suggest both candidates tell me why i should vote for them in your final joint appearance. concentrate on your experience on the issues and i promise we'll get to as many as possible. before that i want you the tell me about yourself. the very nature of a campaign

sometimes paint as portrait of you, that your opponent wants the public to see. not who you really are and after all, not everybody reads every newspaper article or magazine piece. so, whether you live in a city or a farm or a small town in kentucky de, to begin with, describe your community that surrounded you as a child and how your personal bying graphy might change the hopes and aspirations for all of kentucky's clishs. we'll begin alphabetically. >> thank you. and i appreciate the insightful question. i - my background and parents shape everything about me. my dad grew up on a family farm in union, county in kentucky. largest corn county in the

common wealth. my dad ran the biggest seed company and my father after serving in the army made his way to jefferson and on the gi bill put himself through law school in the night. met my mother the daughter of a union blacksmith. he - my mom's side i'm the first to go to college and the oldest of four children. they instilled in me an ethic of hard work. when you knock down to pick yourself up and study and work hard and appreciate the common wealth of kentucky. a lot of people say he lives in louisville but really i took a dozen trips and did what families did on a little cabin in mulling lake. my dad put himself through law school and out the taught during the day. i love my family very much.

my wife and i want to raise our daughter to have the kentucky that i knew and to have our best days ahead. >> doctor paul? >> i'm a physician and married 20 years to my wife, kelly. we had anniversary this last wednesday and celebrated on the campaign 12. i have three s teenager boys. i group in a small town and always wanted to live in a small town. i chose to come here. my wife grew up in russellville and her dad was from lewis berg and they related to the original surveyors that had a land grant. we like where keenelands. if we can figure out how to get that land back. they've been in kentucky for a long time. i liked living in a small town. i grew up where i could ride my

bike everywhere. i rode it to practices and anywhere. i think it's been great for my kids to live in the small town. i coach little league, soccer, basketball, but the one thing i won't reveal is my win/loss record. i've enjoyed it and like being apart of a small town and community. bowling green is a thriving community with the university to give it the vibrancy sit to be a university town. >> both know education is important and teachers are such a key determinant about the quality of education we've received or will receive. tell me about your favorite teacher and why that person has proven in your life, to be important to your life and success? doctor paul? >> my first grade teacher was

mrs. deucec. in first grade is a fascinating time for kids. i think we sometimes don't appreciate it's a much as we should. the learning to read and ability to learn at age five and six and earlier that it was an explosion of learning how to read and books after books after books and having a teacher that recognized you liked that and promoted that for you. something i won't forget. >> i think bill, if we all look back into our past, we all have a teacher that brought us to where we are. we all stand on the shoulders of others where our parents or teachers. a mental or whoever that helped us along the way. two people leap to mind. one, in terms of a teacher, when i went to high school i thought i would be an orthopedic or a teacher. john price a man that out the me

about civics and history and how history can i inform the decisions in the present day. he was more than an instructor or teacher. sown that helped you fulfill your potential. i wouldn't have gone to get a public policy degree if it weren't for him. the other, not a teacher in a classic sense but another woman taught me organizations and taught me not to answer when you don't have it but to find the answers. >> couple of quick questions before the issues. what's your favorite kentucky state park? >> i would have to say lake bart lee. that's that great vista and i would say lake barkley. >> barren river lake. >> close by. fiction or non.

nonfiction. what's the latest piece of fix you read? >> poison wood bible by barbara keen soloman. i read a lot of nonfiction i think the last piece of fix i read was "da vinci code". >> you enjoy it? >> yeah, i did. before i do that, i'd like for you to give me your thoughts on issues without stating your opponents viewpoint. you're talking points and if there's differences and i'm sure there will be. we'll have a discussion where you disagree. to begin with, what important issue facing the country and if your elected and go to washington, what will be job one for you addressing that issue, paul? >> jobs and the recession and how government interacts with that. i think government competes for precious funds and we need to

send less money to washington and keep more here. our recession money went up and we're over 10% now and i think we're making mistake. president obama thinks government is the answer to everything and i think really, we need to have more e respect and how individual people create jobs and need to be more conscious of that. right now the president is laying down more regulatory burdens and added a 2,500 health care take over bill that i think will create more unemployment. banking bill that will add more regulations to the local community bank. when you talk to local businesses they're very concerned about the ability to get al loan. my concern is that this will keep us from getting out of

this recession. >> i have a jobs plan. if people go to my website we have a hometown tax credit. i think when your sitting in places like fa yet county and people are thinking jobs are not being created. i think we need to provide senates and we need too capital $50,000 and save the small and medium size businesses. you can take 20% of the job as a tax credit. the estimate is we'll create three quarters of new jobs statewide. i think we have to get the small and community banks lending again. george w. bush bailed out a bunch of big banks but the regulators have come down on our small and community banks. i can't tell you how many said

capital is dried up and we're not certain about the rules. we have to get regulatory clarity. we set 2 or $300,000 loans to a business and that can mean expansion, job creation or a lifeline. >> the question is, do you believe in more or less regulations? obama care adds thousands of pages of new regular lulalations. president obama is for that. the banking regulation bill. these regulations are making it harder for local banks. see no banks in kentucky failed and yet all the new regulations are heaped on the community banks and i have not met one that's in favor of the new plan. it'll stifle jobs and these are real issues and bills and we have starkly different positions. i think president's take over of health care was wrong and will lead to higher unemployment and

i think the regulatory bill is exactly wrong and i think very dangerous for our economy. >> actually, one kentucky bank failed and one or a number got tarp bail-out funds. i'm concerned we learn our le sons after the meltdown of 202008. i think we needed prudent financial reform. the banks are too big to fail and the then the bank as to big to fail are now even bigger and i'm afraid we haven't learned the moral hazard. to make sure wall street isn't gambling with our money and the wall street banks are looking for commercial banks to take over. we need to maker is time we learn our lessons and wall street is not gambling with the deposits. i think it's very important after the meltdown of 202008 you a had to say, no, regulation.

leave everything alone. this is what got us in the mess. this about prudent oversight. >> bill, it's also about who you believe in? government or the entrepreneur? the stimulus packet that the president supported the stimulus package is money borrowed from china to try to promote job stimulation from the government down. i think it comes from the businessman and woman in kentucky and works it's way up. it's a real clear distinction. this election is about which agenda you want. you want one to believe in the government as mode of stimulus and you have to ask. is it a good idea for a country to run a two trillion dollar deficit annually. the interest payments are in the hundreds of thousands if interest rates rise again to the 4-6 level.

interest will consume 20% of the budget. >> some thought the budget needed to be large er to create the kind of jobs this one has created some jobs. you can see that witnessed in lexington with the road work that was done and the street scrapes downtown. >> if you divide the trillion dollars out and leave off the fiction of jobs saved and talk about jobs created. it's 400,000 a job. >> you don't think the recession will be worse? >> the people saying that were wrong about this and didn't predict it coming. bernanke and these are the people saying it would have been worse had we not different. you have to ask an important question. where does the trillion come from? it's being borrowed. not like we had a big bunch of savings in washington. that would be different. this money is bah borrowed from china and is a disaster for the

economy and i fear it'll make things much worse. >> if tax cuts had worked, for many years, why hasn't this - how would a hometown tax credit or tax cut work effectively? has it been looked at as far as - yeah, it's been looked at by moodys.com and they've created a lot of jobs. they passed a holiday froms is tax asian for hiring an unemployed person. we need to provide incentives to private sectors. the next united states senator from kentucky has to have a jobs lab. saying people need higher wages is not a job's plan. there's choices and ran paul said there's others and there is for seniors, students. veterans and women. >> interesting thing about the stimulus package.

the drill dollars packet, recently we found out 77,000 checks were sent to dead people. 17 thousand were sent to inmate's. this is an example of government run amuck and why we don't want to send more money to washington. or less. >> we'll take a break. we do invite questions from kentucky tonight viewers and thanks to everyone that sent questions in to the program. we got many and appreciate your participation. send an e-mail to, the e-mail on your screen. include first name of you your county in your message. click on contact us or call us at 1800-496, and an among the general public. tarp remains one of the most vilified programs ever in acted

by congress. viewed by former wall street executives to bail-out current wall street executives. administrations and some leading economists insist it was a success and that it alleviateed the severity of the financial crisis and right now is being repaid. was tarp a success. mr. conway? >> doesn't have enough accountability. there's lessons to be learned. the people on wall street created this mess and came in the dark of the night and said you have to bail us out and the money was coming from government and the bigger banks acquireed the sicker firms and there was no accountability and i'm all about that. as attorney general i've taken on pharmaceutical companies and big oil companies and to cop in the dark of the night and say give us money, i don't think that's the right way to do business.

>> that money is being repaid though. >> i think bank bail-out was a problem in the beginning. number one issue of my primary i tooed stupid when republicans were for the bank bail-out and said no more. i didn't hear anything from the other side until recently. i'm glad they're talking about the problems. u think tarp was a mistake and most of the people said it was well didn't predict the housing bust and didn't know what was coming and were surpriseed by this and said, if we hadn't done it, it would be worse. in some ways organized recovery for aig might have worked but their bankruptcy the reason they didn't do it was it was a pass through for goldman sachs executives. >> something that's coming. part of the tarp is treasury is

off the rise to spent 50 billion in a program that pays services and borrowers to modify mortgages to keep their home. deserving borrowers. should the government spend that? doctor paul? >> i think the tarp funds left should go to restore the deficit and try to pay-off debt. i think the tarp fund. the 800 billion should have never been spent. the president barack obama stimulus policy should what have not been spent. i think we should go back to offset the deficit. >> but the 50 billion dollars. won't that create a number of housing problems across the nation and people that might deserve to be in their homes will be out? >> that was created by bad government policy that kept the

interest below the market rate and stimulateed a bubble beyond what would have normally happened, and stimulateed by the community reinvestment about that said buy a house without a down payment. many mortgages are so far under water you can bail them out for four or five months but they're not getting better. it's not something that's making us happy. it's a tragedy but the tragedy if you want to think it through is the bad policy from jack's party that got and gave freddie and fannie mae more money. they came to the banking committee and said you're a billion dollars short and the conservatives said well are you going to make better decisions if we give you more. now their credit line is unlimited. we've made a grave mistake giving them more money. >> what about the 50 million dollars. >> i don't support the

bail-outs. >> not the treasuries augmentation. >> i don't think it's okay. to sit back and say that there are all these people that will lose they're home. i don't think it's okay to say that's tragedy but we shouldn't try to do anything. as attorney general i've tried to make country wide loans sold to people and markets in the wrong way that people have a recourse and a lot of people have. i've joined with 40 some odd attorney's general to make sure you don't have autosignatures doing on for closure documents. we need to make sure people are not kicked out of their homes and look for way to keep people in their homes in kentucky, people pour everything in their home in the long term we have to get back to sound lending processes. i sat down with a realtor and

banker and they said you never bye home worth more three than three times what you're making a year and we have to get back to it. >> the real question is there's 200 billion less in tarp. are you against it? i say put it back in the treasury and the deficit is the number one problem. i'm not sure what his position is on this. >> we'll talk about the deficit. move to foreign policy and war if your elected, you'll have tough decisions to make on different issues including trade policy. nuclear negotiations with the middle east. what's your platform to deal with these areas? >> well, first of all. i think the united states needs to be engaged in the world. i think that the united states needs to be a symbol of good will but we should say. step up and help us bare some costs in the instance of

afghanistan. took on my party in this particular issue because i saw the president wanting to surge and i didn't hear enough about pakistan. the best we can hope for in afghanistan is to leave the stats nation more stable than we found it. we have to get regional partners involved and we have to realize how big a problem nuclear material and proliferation is. my opponent is on record saying it would not be a national security if iran acquired a nuclear program. but it is we need to stay focused. >> doctor paul and this iranian, what should be the united states proper response to iran? >> i tell people the most important vote i would take if elected and one that i will treat very seriously is the vote

on whether or not to go to war. declaring the vote on war is a most important vote a senator will take. i only vote if i were going or one of my kids would go. i think we go reluctantly if you talk to soldiers that have been to war, they'll tell you that. but in defense of our country. i think when 9/11 happened it was without question. we cannot let people organize and attack us. 10-years later i think some questions have to be asked? i asked when i saw 100 g.i.'s leaving from fort knox. do you think we're doing enough? do you think the after gaps are doing enough to patrol their own streets and the vast majority of the young men and women that are brave and doing what we ask say they would like to see them step up quicker? >> what should our strategy be

as it relates to their hints about developing nuclear weapons? >> we don't want iran to have nuclear weapons. one of the things we've tried doing is having sanctions and there hasn't been a great deal of success with that but we should not subsidize companies that do business with iran. >> airs our first phone call. >> thank you. mr. paul, you've taken several positions from social security. you've called it the ponzi scheme. the plan that would raise taxes and the civil rights where you think it would be up to the lunch counter owners to determine who will be served. when challenged you reversed your opinion. do you have account as to how many times you have excused a reversal claiming you have been

taken out of context and in light thooft record of in decision. how and why should kentuckyians take you serious. >> this guy is famous i think. i think i've read his blogs. i think people will choose me because they're tired of the career politicians that will say and do anything. i talk about a balance budget amendment. campaigning for a year and a half. both parties think are untrustworthy. they've done a poor job of spending. our problem in washington i think is a spending problem. i think term limits is vastly popular with dependents and democrats. we think people should and do stay too long. should people read the bills before they vote on them. the public next week i think will decide who has what

consistent. >> they all have been miss characterized. many of them by my opponent and many shot down. the civil rights act discussion was shot down by msnbc, so it's sort of hard to argue against a straw man argument that they developed that are not my positions. >> yeah, flabbergasted. i watched on msnbc 20 of the most painful minutes as my opponent questioned fundamental provisions act of 1964. his words were had he been in the senate he would have seek to modify the lunch counter provision. that's on the record. i don't think he can run from that. that's his words. i think seniors have an important choice to make between someone like me that will stand up for them and social security.

my opponents call it ponzi and he's in favor after 23 national sales tax. the kentucky seniors i see get $1100 in social security and they can't afford a tax or medicare deductible. the student that can't afford can't afford college without their pell grants. the veterans need the veterans will with disability act. i came away from a man that left three limbs on the battlefield and he came here about preserving the americans with disabilities act. it protects us all. >> let me give you a chance to respond. you think social security is a ponzi scheme? >> the 20 most painful minutes on msnbc is when jack wanted to attack my religion. we have a disagreements and boy,

was that a squirm fest. what social security is, is having difficultty funding itself. it's - in 1947 there was 42 workers and one retiree. we get to the 1970's and we had 70 to one. the career politician where is kwan dering this and putting general fund and spending it. right now we're down to less than three workers for one retiree and headed to have one work for one retiree. that means the baby boomers are retiring and we have to figure out how to pay for it. social security is paying out more than it brings in this year. there is a problem with funding it, and i'm willing to say let's have an an adult discussion. >> and if my produce ler remind me i want to return to a discussion about social security and medicare and how to reduce

the deficit. let me give you a chance to clarify some comments about the 1964 civil rights act. do you deny you said that and is there clarification? >> i never said i believed in anything remotely regarding segregated lunch counters and that's what he said on chris mathews show and then they said jack conway was lying and it was false and he drummed up a lot of interest on this but it was dishonest and this has been a current theme trying to miss present because he doesn't want to run someone talking about the term limits and reading bills. tea party movement is strong. we had a thousand people the other day. people are tired of career politician s.

>> anyone can go to the sorried yeah tape and watch what he said. he said he would have seeking to modify the lunch counter provision. it's on tape and those are issues we settled a 1/2 century a go. >> we need to go forward. >> before we leave, this comes from a piece that tom brockaw wrote. in afghanistan and iraq we've lost 5,000 and 30,000 wounded and spend a trillion on combat on raktss. why tarpt wars and human and economic consequences front and center in this election? how do you answer the question we need to spent more time thinking about those men and women and the 30,000 coming back to the united states?

>> i think we ought to talk about it more. my father serveed the military. germany for two years and guarded missile silos and i talk to him about being in the military and our brave men and women make an extreme sacrifice and we're in a state with fort knox and fort campbell. if i get elected to the u.s. senate i have to be on the veteran as fairs or armed service because i think it's that important to this particular state, one thing i understand. we have 300,000 veterans in this state. 50,000 wounded, disabled veterans. 12 thousand newly disabled veterans since 9/11. we have to stand from the benefits. my opponent said we'll have to look at cutting veterans benefits. i don't think we should tell soldiers take your office on the first floor. i think we need to talk about the cost that's happened to

other countries. we've had civilians killed there too. >> i think once again. miss presenting my position to say i'm against veteran benefits or the ada. lexington corrected him but it doesn't seem to change. i'm not apposed to the ada and never have said anything about that. what i would say about the war is, that the war isn' an enormo hardship and cost and we have the most mighty defense and military and i think we can win any war and can and should when we need to but i don't think we're good at nation building and this may be that. there comes a time when this discussion does have to happen. i want to be part of that national debate saying how long is too long.

we do need a real discussion in this country about, is 10-years long enough? should the afghans step up to control streets. >> brandon i don't agree on much. the united states military is good at winning battles and the military ground game. but when we get to these political questions at the end of wars what's the exit strategy and how do we leave countries better off than when we found them. we need to make sure we're talking about that in a responsible way? >> i thought i heard him say something that we're not all that nation building and all this sort of stuff. before you committee troops to war, you anybody needs to think how can we bring them home. we need to understand human toll and i think i would agree with that. >> jeffery from a due can. says why do you support the

health care sis aem as obama care. doctor paul, why do you appose? it >> i think it's clear. i would like to fix the health care bill. i'm on record voting for it. mend it not end it. he wants to repeal it. i can tell you this i'm not for a 2000 deductible in medicare. which is his plan. i have a friend, bill. i was in his wedding and he had a kidney transplant and he's told me on numerous occasions how hard it is to get health care coverage pause of pre-existing. now under the law he can get health care coverage. we have 6 thousand kentuckyans getting care. we have women who are going to get mammogram screenings and additional protections for them. he said breast cancer research should be brought down to the

local level so you can get millions of dollars in breast cancer research. it got jane fresher so hopping mad she felt compelled to speak out. it's not a perfect bill. >> what parts would you keep? >> here's what we need to do, back to your earlier question. it made no sense to me in talking about trying to achieve saving in psalms medicare that a sweetheart deal was cut with pharmaceutical companies that did anticipate for shorter health care prices the medicare system negotiates for lower prices. if medicare were allowed to do that it would be 200 billion in savings. that's some real money. we need fraud units in each and every state. having them on the ground that were able to stay close and understand what's going on. the problem with medicare is it's done from a big

bureaucracy. just have someone on the ground and there's potentially 100 billion in medicare out there. there's way to sure it up without taking pharmaceuticals off the table. >> mr. paul, are there no positive developments of the bill you would, even if you went for repeal you would reinstitute in some new bill? >> one of the great ironys is when i spoke of deductibles i spoke of ways to try to fix it in the future. not on current or near current retirees. the interesting irony is deductibles are already going up. 11,000,000 medicare patients have higher deducts on obama care. there's a twisting irony. >> when does that go into effect? >> gramly. all the way up through 2017. out of pocket cost for medicare

ceramic. not only hurting people on the receiving end but humana is a big presence as well. >> some offset by the savings? isn't that in the bill? >> there's a lot of shuffling of money going around. that's the other great irony. medicare is short of money because of the demographics. guess where they got 500 billion dollars? they took it out of medicare and put it in obama care. we were having problems funding current one. obama care will be worse than we can imagine. >> the three areas in affect went in effect at august. illegal to take away from someone when they get sick or charge copays for preventative care. >> i would like a more marketing proem. something cans sound good on the face but right now i buy

insurance because i'm healthy if you tell me i can get it for the same price after i'm sick, why do i buy it? if you give perverse incentives to say why buy insurance what happens is healthy people drop out and system becomes more burdend with sick people of the it's destroying a marketplace. you need to leave the market place. president barack obama is probably the most antibusiness president we've had. he doesn't understand business and very few people in his administration have been in business. i talked to a guy the other day that will have a 400 thousand dollar fine if you put a fine like that on an individual businessman you put them out of business. >> for not offering insurance though he'll get government help. >> he has temporary workers and you them up and say they're equivalent and he has to pay a penalty for the full-time workers.

>> i don't want to penalize employers but we have a lot of companies getting stance with premiums. we need to go back to the health care system pre world war ii. and that was - in america, the average person spent five dollars a year on health care. i don't think anybody thinks we're going back to that. my only is running from fact that he support as 2000 dollar medicare deductible. a lot of medicare plans are being over reimbursed and he's saying deductibles are going up. the seniors of kentucky and the ones i talk to out on the trail can't afford a 23 percent national sales tax or the current deductible. they can't afford what ran paul is putting out there. >> perhaps they can't afford president obama's spending

trend. the leader of the party the guy that you supported. you wanted president barack obama is a disaster for our country. he's bankrupting us and you support ace primaries. it's a disaster. >> just made something up. >> he is a disaster. >> did you call for a 200,000 deductible? >> what i said many times and he takes snips of this. it's dishonest. i said a higher deductible would help fix the problem but would be not feasible but there would be ways that maybe in the future, younger people might have to pay higher deductibles and do means testing. people with a racehorse might have to pay more for the cost of medicare. that may becoming. we have to figure out how demographically we'll pay. >> on a racehorse?

>> kentucky people know you don't take a man's dog or attack a man's dog or horse. let me say this. that you said 2000 dollar deductible. you said you didn't say that and the same thing with - your dishonest. >> same thing with the fair taxes. 23 percent national fair tax. numerous occasions and now has to rub from his own words. >> you have similar polic simp view. you say we're going to heap on sales tax and you forget we're talking about eliminating the income tax. you leave that out. >> seniors i talk to can't afford it. >> it has exception for the first $50,000 worth of sales.

>> did you come up 23 percent. >> no. you don't listen. you over simplify because all you care about is winning. >> what did you come out for. >> what i've said and discussd for a year and have sour problem is a spending problem. not a revenue problem. the problem is the deficit. when we can get that under control i want to simplify the tax code that's 16,000 pages long. we spend 239 billion complying with it. that's equal to wal-mart's gross reseats in the year. it has to be simpler and one way would be a sales tax the. another way is a mra flat income tax or another way is to lower all tax rates. the one thing that was the best government stimulus we ever had. the only type that works contrary to sort of borrowing money from china to pay for this is cutting tax rates.

i have been honest with the people of kentucky. you can only cut taxes and reform the tax code and make it small fair your willing to cut spending. >> second phone call of the kentucky tonight program. mr. hatfield from har is, county. >> yes, please? i saw a commercial on television. ran paul against jack conway and i it insinuated that he was against abortion but jack conway was for it. jack conway said he was a christian and what i'd like to know since both of them confess to be christians i'm a little bit nervous. forgive me. >> you want to know the position on abortion? >> are they to for it or against it at what will they do to stop it?

>> thanks very much. you heard the question. >> i'm 100% pro-life. i believe it begins at conception and would support it. >> i'm a christian. i think abortion should be as rare as we can make it. and i support parental notification. as rare as we can make it but safe and legal so i would probably come down to the libertarian view that the government ought not tell women what to do. >> sounds like a distinct difference. >> education, againing? the world is becoming well educated. china and india have more graduates with bachelors than the united states. what's the role of the u.s. department of education in ensuring americans have access to be prepared to battle in the global market?

>> supportive role. i worked for an education governor for six years. i helped write the higher education reform act of 1987. kentucky has to get more educated as a society to compete with indiana and virginia. much less china and india. i'm concerned about a couple of thing. we've tried to have rewards and reform higher education. i think we need to be committed as a state and i think this is a role for private citizens to make sure we have early childhood education. the childhood that can't read at 7 is a likely drop out at 16. depending on the year ten and six percent comes from federal sources if you were to take that out of the state board of education they would be hurting in the area of title one. i also know there's a roll for

the federal government in helping young people afford college. what we're doing is we're really good at getting kids into college. but our retention and graduating them is dropping off. we're now number nine in the entire world in terms of graduates so i'm glad the federal government says we're going to have a longer period of time for young people to pay-off loans. we have to continue with the loans to make it easier for young people to afford education. i don't want to see a young person drop out because they can't afford it. doing away with the department of education would hurt them. >> you wouldn't cut federal money for pell grant? >> absolutely not. >> mr. paul? >> i think the department of education is doubled in size. i think that no child left behind is a mistake. interestingly if you talk to teachers you find most agree with me. i would say 90% agree.

no child left mind is a mandate that comes in and interferes with local education of our kids. the other thing you hear is not only a dislike but extreme dislike about the idea of unfunded mandates. throughout all of county government and city and state government. that the federal government tell use if you're the superintendant of schools what to do. where your money can expand and they can't make decisions. in one area it's being spent and kids don't have pencils or computers for more local control. superintendents. teachers, family. local communities need to be more involved. >> on higher education from the federal department of education would you suggest pell grants and student loans be cut? >> no. but if we can do what i propose

getting rid of the department of education and thing west want to keep out, we put in other departments but for the most part i think we've gone too far in federal involvement in our education until like 1978. ronald ray gap ran on that program because we believed in more local control for schools pennsylvania rents and teach theers and super in ten adapt. we can figure it out at a local level rather than sending that money to washington. >> there's a lot of people in the common wealth of kentucky watching this program that have higher education on the pell grant or g.i. bill and to say do away with the department of education and shift the money. he talked about how, you know, i'm too simple or something like that. that sounds simple but the fact is your eliminating pell grants

and the assistance. >> i said we'd transfer them to other departments. >> on cap and trade if the original bill is dead, what sort of energy bill could you support and would it include measures relating to kentucky coal and state energy cost? >> i think cap and trade would be a disaster. for the economy, hundreds of thousands of jobs could be lost in our state. not only in the east, western coal fields up in henderson we have two aluminum plant that employ a lot of people. all those will be lost. jack has been for cap and trade. bowling green daily news reported. even the progressive blogger said he had many conversations with jack and jack has expressed interest for cap and trade. once he found out it was unpopular we're seeing the other side of

things. cap and trade, kentucky will not tolerate ambivalence and i think we're seeing that at the best. the most charitable description bully appose it and president barack obama tooth and nail and work to reign in the extra power. >> let me clarify that. i'm against cap and trade and always have been. i'll stand from the kentucky coal industry. he's said that's one of the least favorable forms of energy and said we need to take that back to the 1930th. i think we can stand up for that and those that mine it. i understand how important it is. i worked on thin seam tax credits and worked a coal governor and worked on redoing industrial develop pieces of legislation to,p body coal could reinvest. but you know, he can talk about my position only once. i'm against cap and trade it's

dead. but when the e.p.a. do it and james connaughton gets decided not to do it. i filed an action to say that kentucky doesn't think the e.p.a. can do this. he can try to characterize my position all he wants. the lexington herald leader said they claiming that i was for cap and trade is false. i stepped up for the people of kentucky. >> did you join the lawsuit with the governor and the kentucky coal association? >> it was filed a weeks ago and we're looking to see if we're going to sign on. >> i tell you and the viewer's, quickly. we done have time to go in a full debate. clarify positions and how you think they would adjust that, if that's the correct word would reduce the deficit>> we're short of money for demographic reasons. we used to have many workers and

few retirees. and now that's changing. everybody heard the bah by boomers are retiring and we have to pay for them. you have to make difficult decisions. not on current retirees so it is amiss statement. that's pleasant way of the fact to say, i do not support raising the de duck ab deductible but f people there may have to be changes and age changes and on the younger folks it probably should be directed more towards means with consideration. we do have the consideration and the 20% is picked up for those in poverty by medicaid. >> mr. conway something will have to be done. you agree with any of the methods. >> no. ran's prescription is wrong with the kentucky know with the seniors who i speak they can't afford a 23 percent national

sales tax and can't afford a u.s. senator that says social security is a ponzi scheme. imagine if we privatized it when president bush wanted to. here's what we need to do. we need to make sure medicare can engage in bulk purchases and negotiate for lower prescription rates saving 200 billion dollars. we need medicare fraud unit that's 100,000,000 potential dollars in savings. standby social security. it's not an investment club it's a social insurance program designed to keep people from starving to get and i'm sick and tired of people saying they want to privatize it. i will never do that. >> as we wrap up. a final question. kentucky has been home to many admired statesmen and effective political leaders from lincoln,

henry clay, to win dal ford. which kentucky politician most inspired you and influenced your public life? mr. conway? >> wow. i've known some. i think krit lurl. i saw her as a higher power calling when my daughter was born on her birthday. i think the experience at 18 when i met with wednesdandell f. we went back to the capital and everybody came out and said this is the nicest man to phrase the halls of the u.s. senate. i would love to be just like that. >> to be or the paul? >> when i got started in this race it was to defend jim bunning against attacks. the one thing that i admire about him, is that he wasn't afraid to stand on principal,

when the congress and senate passed pay as you go and said don't add to the debt but pay-off things as we go, when nobody else would stand up and brave enough for the floor, he said enough is enough and said the bank bail-out was wrong. many people later could say they opposed it but he stood up and voted the way he believed was right for kentucky and i'm proud of him for that. >> gentlemen, thanks for being here and good luck. next monday, scheduled fwes are state democratic and republican party leaders along with jennifer moore and don david night. reporting returns during the news hour and then at 8:00, 7:00 central join for us a full evening over live coverage on-line. don't forget kentucky common wealth. thanks for watching kentucky

tonight. for,ket i'm bill willman. good evening. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]. >> on weekdays watch live coverage of the u.s. house of representatives and congressional hearings and policy forms. every weekend look for the signature programs. communicators and news makers on sundays and q & a on sunday night. popular prime ministers questions from the british house of colleagues. political parties also bat for control of congress. our program is available at time at c-span.org and searchle. created by cable and provide as a public service. .

efforts by the tea party. sal russo of the tea party express joins us. then a discussion of the hispanic vote. brent wilkes from the league of latin-american citizens will be our guest. after that, a talk about rising after that, a talk about rising college debt