for the new republican majority in the house. let's talk more about the president -- or this morning. yesterday he delivered a speech at the university of indonesia in jakarta calling for better relations between the u.s. and the muslim world. our question to start the show -- the president's outreach to the muslim world, do you support it or oppose it? the number to call -- it also find us on email and twitter. looking at "the washington post" coverage of the president's speech in indonesia yesterday. the president praises indonesia's's spirit of tolerance as a model.

president obama cited the transition from dictatorship to democracy as a model. our question, do you agree with the president outreach to the muslim world? let's take a look at some of the comments president obama made yesterday in jakarta.

visiting on this trip, indonesia it is deep and spirituality, a place where people worship god in many different ways. along with this rich diversity, it is also home to the world's largest muslim population. a truth i came to know as a boy when i heard the call to prayer across djakarta. just as individuals are not defined solely by their faith, indonesia is defined by more than its muslim population. but we also know that relations between the united states and muslim communities have frayed over many years. as president, i have made it a priority to begin to repair these relations. [applause] effort, i went to cairo last june and called

for a new beginning between the united dates and muslims around the world, one that creates a path to move beyond our differences. i said then, and i will repeat now, that no single speech can't eradicate years of mistrust. but i believe then and i believe today that we do have a choice. we can choose to be defined by our differences and get into a future of suspicion and mistrust. or we can choose to do the hard work of forging common ground and commit ourselves to the steady pursuit of progress. and i can promise you, no matter what setbacks may come, the united states is committed to human progress. that is who we are and that is what we have done, and that is what we will do. host: president obama speaking in jakarta yesterday and our question for you this morning is do you support or oppose the president's outreach to the muslim world. let's look more at this of the washington post" story by scott

wilson. he writes that the speech was cast as part of the president's continuing outrage to muslim -- let's go to texas, for work. cindy. caller: i do support it with caution. i just think until both muslim nations, until they get a track on the terrorists -- it should not matter of a person's religion. we detect a look of the people individually.

host: manhattan, new york, where ted is also calling in. caller: thank you for c-span. oddly i am against it only because i think that now the republicans, hannitys and limbaughs will use this trip to rip him apart. they go negative on everything that this president does. they are the party of no, and i think we made a great mistake by giving them back power. they are all about the party of representing the rich. only in the united states could you get poor and middle-class board to argue in favor of tax cut for the wealthiest americans who are buying homes now at low prices are around the country, extra ski homes, and bush is doing his book tour now and i don't think that he showed it --

i think the proceeds should go to military families. i am not against our military but the war in iraq, the greatest mistake in u.s. history. host: can i hear -- i hear what you are saying. let me steer you back to the president outreach to the muslim world. you said you are opposed to a because republicans would use against him, but should the present worry about that or look at the big picture, the long view, the relationships? caller: by starting the war in iraq, we shook up the hornets' nest. the military, after the soviet union fell, was to -- twiddling its thumbs and did not know what to do. here we have september 11, the perfect reason to start these crazy wars. and the american people have got to figure out and sort these things out and next time in two years we have to keep obama in office.

host: let's go to our next caller. mike in august georgia? caller: agusta, georgia. host: excuse me. caller: i support the president. i think for way too long the u.s. has been turning a blind eye to this problem. and i think it is long over -- host: did we lose you? let's move on to chicago, illinois, where isiah joins the conversation. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go right ahead. did you agree with the out reads to the muslim world? caller: unfortunately i don't agree in the context that we here in america have so much opposition against christians and their belief and crest -- practices and their views. i just see the hypocrisy.

muslim is a religious belief, and yet out -- there, when we need a lot more support here in america for our values here. and there is not a lot of support as far as this party is concerned that the main reason why i am opposed to this. host: looking back at the news. "the new york times" reports of the president's trip to indonesia. he points out in the visa -- indonesia is the world's largest majority muslim nation. it's go to los angeles, california, where george is on the line.

good morning, george. we lost him. let's go on to baltimore, maryland. crystal. it sounds like you are opposed to the president's out reach to the muslim world. caller: absolutely. idon't feel that he's -- believe this is his own personal religious belief. i don't agree with him in supporting them. i just think it is it his way interning this country into the socialistic country he is trying to achieve, through his policies, through his relations with everyone else. host: even though he says he is a practicing christian? caller: no, i don't. host: hilton head, south carolina. david. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. coming from a beautiful island of hilton head -- hilton head, south carolina. the state of jim demint.

thank goodness barack obama is in indonesia after george bush's hicks talk. host: let us look at a comment from twitter. next up is an arbor, michigan. begonia joins us. what do you think of the president's outreach? democrat absolutely i supported. as a previous caller said, thank god we have an intelligent person running the country. i support his outreach, policies. really disgusted with the way republicans and the tea party is not collaborating in trying to move this country forward. and to establish better

relationships with nations all over the world. i really admire the work obama is doing. he is working very hard, and i really appreciate it. i am proud of having a president like obama. host: our question, do you support or oppose the present apostate of reach to the muslim world. outreach todent's the muslim world? we have a comment on twitter different from the last caller -- the ratings and comments on his christian faith, some americans still believe he is a muslim. let us go back to "the new york times" that looks at the president of's recent visit --

visit to indonesia. let's go to chicago, illinois, where judy joins the conversation. caller: my name is judy. my whole life i was in christian science, that is what my mother did, and she was a nurse with the christian science paired i believe that all religions --

christian science. i believe that all religions belong to all of us and i am a humanist as a grown-up person. there are 1.6 billion muslims, what about all religion -- all the other religions. you have to have respect. you have to think. -- you can't decide somebody who somebody is by their religion. you have to learn about what kind of people they are. host: let's take another look about president obama's, indonesia, when he talks about his own upbringing and his mother lived in indonesia. >> because indonesia is made up hundreds of languages and people from scores of regions and ethnic groups, my time here helped me appreciate the common humanity of all people. and while my stepfather, like

most indonesian's was raised a muslim, he firmly believed that all religions were worthy of respect. and in this way -- [applause] in this way he reflected the spirit of religious tolerance that is enshrined in indonesia's's constitution, and remains one of this countries the finding and inspiring characteristics. [applause] host: robert in philadelphia, what do you think about the president's out ridge to the muslim world? caller: what do i think? i think it is -- they are back stampers. host: sorry, i am having trouble understanding you. let us go to connie and south carolina. caller: how are you doing? host: what you think about the

president's's outreach? caller: i think it is wonderful. i think we have a fantastic president and i think that everything that he does -- it could go with it, connie. just turn down your television -- host: go-ahead, connie. it just turn down your television. caller: is opposed by the gop. host: deal have concerns about the president's seeming too friendly to muslim countries or opening -- opening the door to why? caller: we need to reach out. host: paul, also in south carolina. this time in colombia. caller: good morning. i oppose the president going around the world speaking about muslims, because the muslims do not respect the christian religion. that makes me -- i am not against muslims, as long as they treat questions correctly and jewish people correctly.

but, they are against us, they seem to be. i was over in turkey, stationed there for about three years, and i have never been lied to sell many times in my life as i was there. thank you very much. host: some other news coming out of the president's visit -- visit to asia. in "the new york times," china challenges the role of the u.s. on the eve of the economic meeting.

the g-20 summit starts this week, and we will be hearing is from that as the president's visit continues. let us go to washington, d.c., where shane is joining us. shane, what do you think about the president's outreach to the muslim world? caller: i think it is the best possible strategic decision he could make. host: why is that? caller: well, we've gotten to the point of where we have no

better option than diplomacy. we are reaching the point in our global culture where war is not a valid option anymore. match but can't guerrilla tactics used against us the correct -- the guerrilla tactics used against us. the only option now is common sense and diplomacy. the comment on twitter. one of our followers rights on twitter. let us look at some of the other news going on right now. back here on capitol hill, this is from the "usa today" --

their information and politics. four are vying for the house energy and commerce gavel. from "the washington times" -- it looks like a handful of gentleman hoping to get that seat, which looks to be a powerful one in the upcoming congress. over on the democratic side of the house, in battle and sewing between some of the folks who are looking to be leaders in the

democratic minority. "bill" reports that the leadership race took a sharp turn when clyburn criticize his opponents tactics -- "the hill" reports. steadied hoyer says he is getting more support from liberal democrats. looking at other news, not just in politics but other things happening in washington. these hearings over the bp blow out in the gulf of mexico that happened back in april. officials see systemic drilling flaws, from the washington bureau of "the wall street journal." suggesting tuesday the disaster was not an anomaly but reflected systemic problems in the offshore drilling sector.

so, we will follow what is going on there as more is discussed about the bible out of what it means for the oil and -- bp blowout and what it means for the oil industry. georgia, good morning. caller: i oppose this trip. because if he is going to reach out to any muslims, why not go to countries like saudi arabia, why not go to egypt, why not go to pakistan, the ones that really have the al qaeda and those people? why is he going to the peaceful countries.

it don't make no sense. and as far as him being a christian. you can tell a christian by his work. i and not a practicing christian. i am a christian by my relationship with jesus christ. and my salvation does not depend on anybody else, like he believes in the collective salvation, there is no such thing. thank you. host: let's go to michael in fort lauderdale, florida. go ahead and turn down your tv and join us. go right ahead. hi, go right ahead. caller: i support him very much. but just go real slow with it. host: how do you see him going slow, what does it mean? caller: don't be so open, not so fast opening up.

host: be cautious? caller: be cautious. i think he should help everyone. host: we played clips of his speech. do you like what you heard so far? caller: yes. host: burlington, north carolina, where derrick joins us. i think we lost derica. baltimore, maryland. what do you think? caller: i definitely support him. i come from a christian family, went to bible college, and as an army chaplain assistant i work with people from all over the place. i have the utmost respect for human beings to stand up. people who say that they doubt his christianity, first of all, that is his business. jesus christ said love your neighbors. he brought people from all nations and ethnic groups and all religions. muslims are not centers but

christ said -- jesus christ when he was on this earth he would also be reaching out to people of every religion because love is the foundation of what he stood for and president obama is a brilliant man in what he is doing. i am sure there is some political diplomacy attached to this, but i also give him respect for standing up for what he believes in, regardless of the backlash that he knows he is going to get as he has gone from callers on the line. i did not believe the republicans or gop is against him because he stands up for muslims, i think any christian, bottom line, vr true in question understand you have to love everyone. host: winston-salem, north carolina. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. a lot of good points were just made as i was sitting here

listening on both sides of what was just said and the last caller made a lot of good points about christianity and jesus reaching out to all sides. but let us see how obama is doing it. shunning and criticizing our no. 1 ally, where god declares we must protect, israel. turning his back against israel and spending $3 billion of taxpayer money to go to a peaceful nation and expressed concern with making peace in a peaceful nation with muslims. there is nothing wrong with respecting -- it is only right we respect all religions but let us look at -- as how he did it. he lied to the americans saying that he is a christian. if he is a christian, i hope so, it is the team -- between him and god. personally i don't think he is. he lied to the american people like he has about many things. host: we have quotes from the president that it does professed the christian faith. let us look at the point that

you made about the relationship with israel that the united states has. in "the washington post" -- let us go to get cut, new york, where richard joins us -- inithaca -- ithaca, new york. caller: it is an opportunity for the president to dispel some of the myths we have that we proceed over muslims. but not to confuse the terms

muslim with islam. what little i heard in a speech, he referred to muslims, and it was all positive. in my personal experience meeting, talking about and really muslims regarding the religion and some of the myths, the muslims are a good people. islam, like most religions, have an orthodox the side of the reformed side. it is the orthodox side that most of the terrorists come from, and we have to caution our cells between the two groups. -- caution ourselves between the groups. host: let us go to the news of the major papers this morning. back to politics from "the new york times."

so, that is back in the news as we wind down the midterm campaign season. also in "the new york times" by peter bakker. it points out there different backgrounds and says the contrast undercuts the popular comparison to 1994 --

baker is not seeing similarities yet emerging between president obama and john boehner. and looking at the state of michael steele, the head of the republican national committee. it looks like "the new york times" said, turning their attention to the 2012 presidential election, a battle for control over the rnc. it will be critical for their efforts to topple president obama, and some are looking to out mr. steele. we will be watching the battle taking place there. in some other news stories not related to politics, education has certainly been in the news a lot. new york city has had its top school officials resigned, joel klein, who presided over a radical reorganization and drew praise and criticism for efforts

to raise test scores and hold teachers accountable. mayor michael bloomberg appointed kathleen black, chairwoman of hearst magazine. it was also noteworthy because she has no background in education, in keeping with mr. blumberg's preference for executives from the business world. -- mr. blumberg's preference for executives from the business world. our question this morning is about how you feel about the president's out reach to the muslim world. a twitter from donna -- let's hear what linda had to say from alabama. good morning. are you with us? one last time. moving on to indiana.

good morning, darren. >> good morning. host: would be think about the president's outreach? caller: i believe in freedom of all religions and i think it is good -- most americans, i believe, know that most muslims are not out to get all americans. why i oppose him going over there, i think he is therefore supervisor shall reasons. he is really there for trade -- superficial reasons. he is therefore trade agreements where he is trying to get more sleep labor for about the world. -- more slave labor throughout the world. host: allentown, pants -- pennsylvania. good morning. caller: i think the administration is showing for site. a transition to a more globalized world and we are structuring ourselves according to our self interest. the relations in this area is good considering we are at war in this area.

it is only to the benefit of our long-term strategic goals in the area. and also cultivates a perception -- what allocated is trying to use as fuel against the western world. host: texas, aaron, good morning. what do you think of the president's outreach? caller: i think it is wonderful, and it has to be because the diplomacy is much better than being hate and evil, what we don't want to portray for the simple reason that picking a fight with everybody does not put us in a good position. where bush was with all the rhetoric and hate and evil. we cannot -- so many muslims, everybody has bad in every religion and different things

like that so we can't just stigmatize one religion. we can't just go with israel and what they do and then oppose the muslims for what they do for the simple reason that we are supposed to be a christian country and what the bible says it can't even in israel they don't believe in jesus christ but we still believe them humanitarian. it's so let's go to ellen from penn submit -- host: let's go to ellen from pennsylvania. caller: i oppose him running around and spending our dollars and promoting a religion. he should not be promoting a religion. promoting a peaceful people. there are all kinds of muslims, but the ones that of the troublemakers are the ones he should be opposing openly. but he doesn't do that. but you know what?

i think he ought to pay back to the american people all the money he spent running around this country trying to get democrats elected. host: are you still with us? if i could ask you a follow up. you mentioned you don't want to see the president sending an olive branch to islamic extremists, but what about the muslims who don't intend to do harm to the united states and those who feel the u.s. could be a neighbor and ally? do you want to see him work with them at all? caller: yes, i do, but he is not doing anything -- host: you would like to see more force? caller: not in the wars, but in his speeches. he has a liquid tongue, and, boy, he really uses it. host: let us listen to more of the president's comments at the university of indonesia in jakarta. >> i believe the history of both american and indonesian it

should give us hope. it is a story written into our in the united states, our motto is in poor this room, out of many, one -- e pluribus unum. we are two nations to travel different paths but carnations showed hundreds of millions who hold different beliefs can be united in freedom in one place. we are not building on that shared humanity. three young people who will study any other schools, the entrepreneur is supporting ties that could lead to greater prosperity, and through our embrace of fundamental democratic values and human aspirations. host: president obama speaking in jakarta. our question, what do you think of the president's outreach to the muslim world. let's go to mississippi where

steven joins us. caller: good morning. i am opposed to it. as a diest, the same fate of the founding fathers, i care not for religious or the religious. he is focusing too much on religious issues. he should get rid of nafta, getting jobs back from overseas and getting the unemployed employed. america is america. we shall not be worrying about the rest of the world but we should be worrying about ourselves right now. host: the way in florida. hi, there. caller: how are you doing? host: fine, thanks. what did you think of the president's speech yesterday and building relationships with the muslim world? caller: i think it is beautiful and the effort is necessary. i think for the last eight years or not 10 years, we have been somewhat ostracized from the muslim world based on the outlook of what i'll kato was --

i al qaeda was and how we did not define them. i am glad president obama is doing what it takes to amend our relationships with the muslim world and hopefully by doing so we will have an open relationship with the muslim world and hopefully get them on board with us, identifying the ones who are not friendly to the united states or other nato allies. i think what he is doing is great. one caller saying he is being kind of fake because he is there for another reason. he is a diplomat, too. when he travels abroad, you would want to extend diplomacy as well. i say he is doing a great job. host: let's go to dan in illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. on a daily basis we have terrorists threatening us.

i think we should take them all out with extreme prejudice. thank you. host: looking at stories in the news, even though the midterm election was over a week ago there are still some places where there are elections hanging in the balance. things still unresolved. one of the places in alaska. "the washington post" reports on the senate race where the right in efforts to elect senator lee summerhouse date seems to be leading the republican nominee joe miller. -- to elect senator lisa rakowski seems to be leading the republican nominee joe miller. nobody actually knows what all of the people wrote in the.

"the anchorage daily news" has been covering this extensively and they say joe miller has filed a lawsuit to prevent any ballots that do not have murkowski spelled perfectly to be thrown out. so, it may be a little while before we find out who is no winner. in other news, in "usa today" prosecutors cleared cia for destroying videotapes showing water boarding. this story is called "no prosecution in water awarding tape description -- what her

boarding tape destruction." back to politics, earmarked will be a hot topic will be as we head to january. jim demint, he said tuesday he'll force a showdown next week with senate minority lynch -- leader mitch mcconnell and other old-guard republicans over earmarked projects that demint and other victors last week made a symbol of out of control deficit spending. let's go back to the question which is whether or not you support the president's decision to make some outreach motions to the muslim world, especially in his speech in

indonesia. good morning, kevin. >> i support going to dean caller: i support him going to india and indonesia because he has the responsibility to reach out to muslims and every other country, because it all has to do with jobs. a lot of callers they had a lot of recent tones to the comments that they kind of oppose him of doing it. if you look back to president bush, he traveled the world and he asked the american people after 911 to embrace the muslim faith. i think we have a disconnect, and people look at president obama because he is black and thinking he is a muslim because he is doing this for religious purposes. but he is doing this to help the american people. host: with a different perspective, ryan writes on twitter --

let's go to kelly who joins us from massachusetts. caller: i support the outreach program, but i am disappointed he did not reach out to the muslims who are moderate and speak out against radicalism. host: he has done that in the past. he continues to make a distinction between islamic extremists, the terrorism -- caller: but he should reach out to the moderates more, i think. host: kelly, how do you like -- would you like him to do that? meetings, speeches? caller: through speeches. say it is their responsibility, too, to speak more out against the radicals. host: virginia beach, virginia. good morning. caller: yes, thank you for

taking my call. i am hearing a lot of negativity from, i am guessing, people with conservative values. and if they follow their christian, what they consider their christian country and the bible they would certainly be willing to respect all peoples, all religions. with 1.6 billion muslims in the country, in the world, we certainly need to reach out and keep everyone informed as to what is going on. we need to be more tolerant. host: jodi from arkansas wrote an e-mail. she writes --

let's go on to raleigh, north carolina. joseph, good morning. caller: i am calling to say i oppose, simply because i heard it costed $250 million a day. host: that was at to the disputed. it turns out that was a false number erroneously reported by an indian newspaper that did not do the fact checking with the white house. the number is significantly less than that. but you still have concerns about the president traveling during a time of economic hardship? caller: i think it teleconference, which technology today the man could teleconference and saved a lot of money. host: do you think that would still build relationships and he could serve as an ambassador that way? caller: yes, i think a good man, knowing how much it costs with

-- to have some fun -- such an entourage, what would tuesday at the white house. it's good dennis joins us. good morning. caller: i got to laugh. i don't know where to begin with some of these people. it is absolutely imperative that the president reached out to all people, but absolutely muslims. after its ro 10 years of -- after eight to 10 years of a country full of crazy people who think all muslims are terrorists. the terrorists that attacked us on september 11 happened to be muslims. more christians terrorists and not of the leading religious terrorists have killed more americans than muslim terrorists have. more people have been killed for all religions of the years. take religion out of this. this is geopolitical science.

and this man is out there making the world better for us. for the person complaining about jobs, he is out there getting us the jobs. he created 25,000 jobs that will be created in our country for a deal for boeing airplanes. for those who think he is a secret muslim, please, take your medications. i got to stop there. host: i understand you are kind of making light are making a joke about the dispute, people would disagree on whether or not president obama is a christian or muslim, but what do you think it would take the white house a president to convince people he is a christian? caller: there is nothing he could say. and per the constitution, it doesn't matter. and the establishment clause has

been interpreted by the supreme court for many decades now to mean a separation of religion and government. host: eric in west virginia. good morning. caller: 95% of your callers of liberals, they speak of tolerance. when i see baptist church is being built in saudi arabia and some of these countries over there, then i will be on their side. and again, talking about tolerance. i wonder how much tolerance the president learned while he was sitting in the pew with the rev. wright preaching hatred against the united states of america. like i said, 95% of your callers are liberals and you sit there and defend them and beat up on the republicans. day in and day out. that is the way all you folks

do. host:eric, it is unfortunate you feel that way. we like to have a balance of callers from all walks of life and branches of the political spectrum so we welcome your opinion and comments and glad you called in. host: 02 loretta from fort valley, georgia. -- let's go to loretta. caller: i disagree with the previous callers and agree with all of those who are positive. i agree with what president obama is doing over there. he does not only speaking out to the muslims but over there also trying to get jobs, you know, trade agreements. host: let's look at some other news from "the hill." the younger generation of democrats is being asked to step aside and let a triumvirate of elders assume leadership

positions. we see an image of jason of meyer, democrat of pennsylvania, some of the young democrats who are not necessarily going to get a room in the house leadership as the jockeying for power goes on. looking at some of the news and how the midterm elections shook out, from "the new york times" is a story, looking at democrats had won losses. -- could have had more losses. house party strategists said it could have been far worse.

let's go to fort myers, florida. back to our question which is, what do you think of the president outreach to the muslim world. good morning, robert. caller: i didn't think telephone lines -- all the way from florida up to you. it is really complicated trying to get through. back to the subject. i am intensely proud of our american president. he embodies the finest of our culture and our democracy. and what he has done, he is uniquely suited to address those masses of people from the aspect of having lived there, and they

can relate to him. and the second most revealing thing is the absolute astonishing negativity and absolute ignorance of the american people. one lady once -- wants into pay us back. the president is supposed to ride in a go kart? representing probably one of the most idealistically wonderful country is that has ever existed. all of his work should be appreciated. host: one last comment from twitter -- thanks for all of your calls. coming up next, we will be talking about outsourcing with thea lee from the afl-cio. we will be right back.

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> with most election results final and the winners preparing to governor, use the c-span video library to see what the winners said on the campaign trail and during 140 debates c- span covered. search, watch, a share, anytime. washington, your way. >> in an ideal world, the fact that there were people shorting the mortgage market would have sent signals to everyone saying, wow, there are all these smart investors who think this will fresh -- crashed and burned. but the market was so opaque you could not see that the way you could see it then the stock market. the way the engines work, you were not betting on real mortgages, but rather betting on

a casino version of a mortgage. >> in 2003, bethany mclean stopped about enron. she talks about the current financial crisis and the future of the american economy. sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span's "q&a." book tv, in one of this first live present -- appearances after publication, george w. bush on his memoir as it discusses the critical decisions of his administration and personal life. live from miami dade college, sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. "washington journal" continues. host: thea lee joins us, deputy chief of staff for the afl-cio. thank you for coming in. i want to hear about your, that came out -- your comments about

outsourcing. what your greatest concern? the cut as the u.s. economy is struggling, one of the problems is we are importing too many of the goods we consume in the united states and if we don't learn how to produce more things and compete more successfully in the global economy, we are afraid we will continue to borrow from the rest of the world to fund consumption. in order for the united states to be a strong country we have to figure out how to do a better job supporting manufacturers here in the united states and the worker to produce those goods. i think that is a key challenge the united states faces. host: this has been a concern for a long time for the afl-cio. where are things going right now? guest: the whole world has been through this horrible economic downturn, and the crash of the financial markets. one of the things we see when we look at the united states of america is that for too long, too many decades, i think, we

had growth based on people working harder, longer hours, less money, and borrowing to support their lifestyle. and that is one of the things that led to the financial crash. if we can't figure out how to get people better jobs, then we are going to continue to see the recovery weekend by too much importing and outsourcing. u.s. companies have a strategy of taking the production offshore, taking advantage of workers in other countries that don't have basic human-rights, democracy, protections at the workplace. not good for those workers and certainly not for american workers. we have to figure out how to get a better balance. host: our guest, thea lee, afl- cio deputy chief of staff. you can join the conversation --

you can, of course, e-mail us. what do you think should be done it to solve this problem? is it the federal government, companies making pledges out of a moral obligation? guest: combination of all of those things. that is what is important. it is not one thing, one magic bullet, because this is a complex world and there is a lot of competition. on the one hand we have trade policies to encourage companies to stay in the united states and we need a tax policy to do the same. and our macro policy, how we can make sure we are not overpricing our goods in the global market. and in other countries take steps to manipulate their currencies, that we are reacting and enforcing the trade laws. also at home at think it is important that we need to invest more than we have in infrastructure, education, skills. and we need to figure out how to build up our production capacity and assumed we are going to be a strong producing

nation in the global economy. host: how you track this or measure of outsourcing? guest: matt is a tough question and i think a lot of people assume the government -- that is a tough question and i think a lot of people assume the government tracks those numbers. there is no single data source. we can look at a couple of things. we can look at the trade deficit, the excess of imports over exports. we are running trade deficits on the order of $500 billion to $600 billion every year. millions of jobs that we could be creating here in the united states if we produce more of those goods here, either through exporting more or importing less or some combination. the other thing is we look at the workers who apply for trade adjustment. the other thing we look at its corporate strategy, where companies tell us all the time, this is their job, this is their strategy, this is their plan, is to outsource more and more jobs. not just low level production

jobs, but also very high level, highly skilled jobs -- computer software engineering, medical jobs, legal jobs. there are very high skill jobs being outsourced and we see it from the corporate strategy. host: the afl-cio has a job tractor, and you can input your zip code and find out about companies moving jobs overseas. tell us about how it works? guest: it is a tool we put together because we know folks are interested in this and concerned about it. it is helping people figure out in their own community what is going on. we put together a bunch of different data sources. one is news clips, the other is trade adjustment assistance, mass layoffs and we also included other kinds of egregious violations that companies do, health of violations, so people have more information about what is happening in their own community and hopefully they can make good

use of that information. host: richard joins us on the democrats' line in california. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span. my name is richard and i live out here in california and i have been out of work for two the problem is i have been watching c-span -- by the way, thank you for my first time, i am a little bit nervous. what i have seen is our economies since ronald reagan, 1982, and his adviser, don regan, started shipping factories out. that was the beginning of the shipping of factories overseas to china, india, indonesia, malaysia, mexico, central america. that equals out to 87,000 to 90,000 factories shipped overseas. those are manufacturing jobs, heavy manufacturing jobs. when you lose 87,000 to 90,000

factories, you have no manufacturing base. therefore, when you do not make a product, you have no country. somewhere along the line, our country got off the tracks and thought that we could sustain ourselves on service-sector jobs. guest: thank you, richard. you raise a lot of points and i am sorry to hear that you personally are out of work. you're absolutely right that this is a trend that has been in place for a long time. of course it is possible for an individual company to move overseas, but one of the things we are trying to figure out is what are the policies we need to put in place at the federal level to ensure that companies can be more profitable here in the united states and that we do not create inadvertently incentives to offer jobs. that is really what our tax code does. companies get a tax break if

they move your job overseas, and they have to pay the full taxes if they create the jobs at home. that does not make any sense. that is ckwards. the other thing we should be doing more effectively is use our own government procurement policies. when taxpayers buy products -- and we buy a lot of thing whether for the military or schools -- we should, to the extent we are able to do so, buy american-made product. we should figure out how to do that so that we know we are supporting our own communities with our tax dollars. host: let's go to tracy in florida. caller: good morning. i'm glad you just said that. it is all well and good to blame congress and the president for the tax code, but the situation is, how many americans are not buying american products? i cannot help but wonder why we do not reward the companies to produce here in the united

states more. if every american pulled together like we do with -- buying more american products and rewarding the companies to produce here, would we be better off? guest: yes, i think we would. people should be conscious of the purchase, particularly like a car or a home and come and think of the difference it might make. when you buy a product that is made in the united states of america, you are paying the people who pay taxes to pave the roads and support the schools and so on. we should be paying attention, and i think that is all we are asking. host: where resources do you recommend people go to if they are trying to buy things in the u.s.? so often there are stories of people trying to buy american, and they go to retail stores and so many things are made

overseas and it is just so cheap. guest: the afl-cio website shows companies were workers are being paid well and treated well and so forth. some web sites specialize in certain goods that are made in america. complicated now appears it is not always at easy to find at the intermission. one of the other things we are trying to do is make sure that our labeling public -- to find that information. when you go to the store and buy packaged goods, you cannot tell where those goods are made. so we are trying to raise the amount of information that is available for consumers. host: are there some manufacturing jobs best left overseas because of the cheap ability to make them elsewhere? you mentioned large-scale items like cars versus some of the

smaller items -- alarm clocks, telephones. is you anything that you agree with should be made overseas? guest: we live in a global economy and we cannot turn back the clock and we would not want to. but what is disturbing about the trade trend in the united states is that a lot of the goods that are being in boarded are the high-tech products. being imported are the high-tech products. that is more disturbing. it is not so much that big labour intensive products are being produced offshore, but we are producing offshore things that we have a technological edge in. we have -- we ought to have the comparative advantage in the high-tech products and the high skill products that are made. those are the kinds of goods we should be bringing back home. host: let's go to stephanie, calling us from pennsylvania. caller: a couple of things that happened in the last administration that i would like

to remind people about. remember time and a half was taken away from most people except for union workers, and people did not understand why the jobs are not coming back. it is because people are being forced to work for lower wages. another thing is that the bush administration got the fast-food industry relabeled as manufacturing, so when they say there is still a lot of manufacturing, it is because of the fast-food industry. a caller a couple of weeks ago said that in your archives there is a film of reagan saying all manufacturing is going to be overseas in the future, and i think the afl-cio ought to get that thing and play it over and over because that is when it started. guest: thank you so much, stephanie, for your call. a lot of the decisions we make at home do have an impact on the

decisions to outsource. one of the things we're trying to do is say if we are going to be part of the global economy, we need to harmonize upward our labor and environmental standards. so that we do not create a disadvantage for ourselves. we want workers in other countries to have protections of the job. we do not want child labor in other countries any more than we want child labor at home. you're absolutely right. ronald reagan and many precedents in the last couple of decades have put in place policies that assume that all manufacturing will go overseas. i think that is wrong, defeatist, and fatalistic. and i think it was one of george w. bush's top economic advisers who said that outsourcing is a natural part of globalization, not something we should be worried about. we do worry about it because we worry about the jobs and we need to figure out how to create jobs

for american workers who can not outsource themselves. host: william cohen had an op-ed piece in "the wall street journal" in which he made the some jobs goat overseas but there are jobs created here. parent companies hire even more companies -- parent companies hire more workers in the u.s. to expand operations. they're filled by scientists, engineers, marketing professionals, i and others to meet the demand created by their foreign subsidiaries. let's look at some comments that he made when he was here on "washington journal" last month. >> what the statistics show is that when the companies start to slim their operations overseas, they create more jobs at home. a study was done by a professor at dartmouth, the business

school at dartmouth, pointing out that it is almost a two to one ratio that jobs have been created. there is between 1987 and 2001. nonetheless, we have to work -- we have to look at what these companies do in terms of making their domestic operations more efficient, to generate more profits so that the profits can be used to keep the level playing force that they have, or hopefully in this case actually increase it. host: former defense secretary william cohen making the case that outsourcing can be good for american jobs. what do you think? guest: i think secretary cohen is a little bit optimistic and not even about what is happening. he is talking about the dartmouth study by mass slaughter, and it shows that multinational corporations are big -- by matt slaughter, it

shows that multinational corporations are big companies that shows that they're growing generally. but it does not count when multinational corporations put jobs overseas, and they are sometimes not part of the same company. it is often an affiliate and they are subcontracting. walmart is buying tons and tons of products overseas, and that is not counted in the kinds of figures that secretary cohen was talking about. so i think it's a little misleading. if you look at the big picture, the growing trade deficit that we have come up this year alone since last year is up 42%. it's definitely cutting into our ability to grow. the other thing you look at is the stagnation of wages in the united states. workers are working harder and they are not making the progress they need to. one of the reasons is that the global economy has put increasing downward pressure on wages. it is giving corporations the upper hand. when they go to the bargaining

table, they have a lot of clout to say if you do not take a pay cut or cut your pension, we will ship your job overseas. host: thea lee is the deputy chief of staff for afl-cio. she is the co-author of a field guide to the global economy. let's go to california where chad joins us on the republican line. caller: how are you? i was just curious that, how can we compete through the global economy when the wages in the u.s. cannot compete with the foreign wages that we pay. it is trumped up by the union is demanding higher wages, and there is no way that america can't compete because of the union wages that you demand

through the taxpayer-funded coalition that the afl-cio creates? guest: thank you, chat. it is a good question, as a matter of fact. our high wages are a real obstacle -- there is the argument that high wages are a real obstacle, and i would argue that they are not we have to account for a whole set of things. if we for argue it -- if we follow your argument to the logical conclusion, we say that the united states cannot compete until we get our wages down to bangladesh or other countries. if you look at other countries like germany or the nordic countries, they have successful trade profiles. they are successful exporters with much higher wages and a stronger union. so a union does not have to be an obstacle because when it creates more jobs security and

productivity, better conditions, or security for everybody, it can make it work is more efficient, more technologically innovative because the workers are part of the team. that is the kind of manufacturing that we are looking at, not the cheapest one. if we win that race of winning the cheapest rates in the world, we have lost. host: one of your rights, "this is a subject near and dear to my heart. we need to make the connection that when we buy the less expensive imported product, we may be putting an american citizen out of work. i would rather have had jobs and more things. this also raises the question, is the american worker too costly or is the cost of living too high?" guest: i think that the balance between jobs and things is important because every worker is a consumer, every consumer is a worker. so we have to find a balance

between what is good for consumers and getting the cheapest possible goods no matter what, versus making sure that we are also supporting good jobs in our community. we need to do both things, walk and chew gum at the same time and do both of those. , at: let's hear from steve democrat in ohio. caller: good morning, ms. lee i'm an old timer, 62. i want to get this out. in my lifetime of employment, i have always had more employment opportunities under a republican than i have a democrat. i might be e.w., i may be e.w., teamsters, i have been there and done it all. do you know where my benefits come from now? not social security, not a

union. the only support that i get is the fact that i am a veteran, at the v.a. hospital. the union for the past 30 years has not been doing the work of the people, but it has been involved in playing the power game of politics. you have been stealing money from us and giving it to politicians trying to buy your way in, and you have literally destroyed more jobs in this country for the past 30 years than the government or any political party ever has. host: we will leave it there and get a response from ms. lee. guest: i am sorry to hear that that is your view, but i think the unions have been struggling to do the best job we can. over time there has been an erosion of living standards, so we also feel like this challenge is one that we need to do something different and better, but it's hard to find that balance between trying to elect people who will put in place worker-friendly policies, trying to take care of workers at the workplace, to make sure that

the standards are protected. host: how do you keep unions relevant and modern? how do you attract new workers, a younger generation, and keep it relevant? guest: one of the things we are trying to do is figure out how to talk to workers in new sectors. taxi drivers, restaurant workers, or hotel maids -- a figure out the sectors where unions have not been traditionally strong, we need to reach out to people, whether they are young people, women, immigrants, and so on. we are also trying to figure out new ways of organizing because as the workplace changes, you do not have the old-fashioned lines of people lining up the gate where -- winding up at the gate where it can hand them a leaflet. working america is one way that

we reach out to folks in their homes, knocking on doors, trying to figure out of people are interested in talking with us about the policy issues we have raised. host: zachary, an independent from florida, good morning. caller: ms. lee seems to be nailing the point of view for the middle class. it is so hard for us. we are struggling, and it seems like they're just trying to keep the rich richer and the poor poorer. so many jobs in the country, like -- i do not know, if we could just do more for the youth, that is where it is at. the biggest problems with the jobs is, like with new jersey up north, the alien situation with illegals -- you cannot get a

job. i am working hand in hand in a ditch and i cannot go to a hospital and get medicaid. it is all about kids going to school and not about the huge loans. it is about the youth and technology really. guest: i think you're exactly right. the struggle for the united states is how do we build and strengthen the middle-class tax because that is what makes this country a wonderful place to live. so many of the problems the last couple of decades have polarized institutions. the people at the top, the co's and the hedge fund managers, are doing great. they have so much money, they do not know what to do with it. there are only so many gold- plated faucets you can buy for your bathroom. ordinary working people need to have jobs, so i think that is one of the tensions that we

have, trying to figure out how to make every job a good job. every job should have union protection. if a worker wants a union, they should be able to join a union without interference from the government or management. there should not be children in the workplace and people should not have over time without getting paid for it. those are the principles that we need to put back into place to rebuild our middle class. host: we are watching the president travel in asia right now. a 10-day trip. asia, so many countries there are huge trade partners, and a place whereso many jobs are headed. guest: i think the president needs to lay down a new marker that things are going to be different. we could trade on a different basis, on a more attuned basis,

more attuned to the impact of american jobs. what is actually in each trade agreement? all those pieces are important. so we want to make sure that president obama is not putting in place more of the same old trade policies, but that he is turning a corner for the 21st century. i know he is interested in that. i know he wants to increase exports from the united states, but he also needs to figure out how to stop the unfair imports from coming in. host: there was a vote in the senate over the creating jobs and creating of shoring act. what would you like to see the white house do? guest: there is one piece of legislation on currency manipulation. we have a huge trade deficit with china, $250 billion every year. one of the problems is that the chinese government has been in

manipulating its currency. so the house of representatives has already passed a bill by more than 300 votes, pretty overwhelmingly in the last congress we would like to see the senate take up that bill on the currency manipulation situation. the other pieces i think are ending the tax breaks for off shoring. it is very popular, but somehow members of congress find it hard to vote for. i would say maybe they are getting too many donations from multinational corporations. host: let's get a call from a republican in maryland. caller: the biggest problem i see is the agreed that we have here in the united states. -- is the greed that we have in the united states. everybody wants to lower costs,

and everyone by the once- everybody wants 12 pairs of jeans and a closet. the afl-cio should be teaching people to be loyal to the country, not be entitled to. guest: thank you, paul. i think greed is maybe a part of human nature, but can we harness it anyway -- it's natural for companies to make money, but they need to do so within the structure of the rules and policies that the government puts in place. that is the government's job, to balance out these different needs. you might want to make more money by slitting your workers, but you cannot do that. -- by enslaving your workers, but you cannot do that. you are right, i think americans need to think about how their actions impact the country. as we outsource and import everything, or more and more of the goods that we consume, we are weakening our country, bar

wing from abroad, and we all need to come together and think about how we can collectively and -- clerk of the strengthened and reinforced the middle class. host: in this outsourcing report that the afl-cio put together, you look at the top 25 products with the largest import penetration rate. break down what that means for us. guest: the import penetration rate is the percentage of the goods that we import. that has been growing pretty rapidly over the years in some important key sectors. so we are looking at the defense between 1997 and 2007. host: some of the biggest leaps are and household furnishings, also elected computers, looking a radio and tv broadcasting wireless equipment, relays and industrial controls. talk to us about these findings.

guest: if you look at those sectors, there is cause for alarm, that each one of those sectors are connected to other places in the economy. if you import a computer, all the pieces that go into the computer tend to be imported. same thing with an automobile or household furnishings. if you drive to a lot of parts of this country, whether in the midwest or in the south, you will see whole factories that have been decimated by this. but each one of them represents a closed factory, maybe tens of thousands of lost jobs. i think it should be concerning. so when people say globalization is a natural part of life and we should not worry about it and companies are making money so everything is fine, i do not think that is the right approach. we should be more alarmed and more active in trying to figure out what would it take to bring some of these jobs back or prevent some of the ones that

are still here from leaving. michelle,s hear from a democrat a caller from mississippi. caller: i would like to know why our government is not increasing the tariffs and the taxes so that my job as a telecommunications is now in india and overseas. when i make a call now, i have a foreigner in answering my call that was here in my state. it started with world come in my state. after my life savings was stolen by the ceo and cfo of my company. guest: that is a terrible story and i am sorry to hear it. your story is one that a lot of people have experienced, and it is one of the reasons why we have politicians talk about trade or outsourcing, most people have a negative reaction.

we do not use tariffs that often to protect our market, and we keep citing more trade agreements, whether it is with the world trade organization, or not we keep signing more trade agreements, whether aid is with the world -- we keep citing more trade agreements, whether it is with the world trade organization or others. that is one of the fights that the afl-cio has been involved with, trying to say let's think twice before we sign these trade agreements because we might want some flexibility to use tariffs in emergency situations when there is a big surge of imports, when there are a lot of jobs at stake or when another country is egregiously violating standards. we need to have more flexibility to use tariffs in situations like that, and we have been signing away that situation for years with the trade agreements we have put in place. host: market is in kansas.

good morning. caller: people always talk about how we need to create jobs, but i think we need to focus more on creating job creators. i do not understand how if a factory closes and it automatically goes overseas because there's nobody to open a factory backed up, how do we teach people in our colleges and out in the world or whatever, how do we get them to -- how do we train people to create jobs? how do we teach our young people, the next generation of ceo's and factory higher-ups'? guest: i think it goes to the mindset or the attitude both of policymakers and of corporate leaders, where they have been trained for many years that the way to make money is to move your production overseas. we need to retrain them to

appreciating what is good about producing in the united states. you have more certainty, a better work force, you're closer to your market, a big huge consumer market of 330 million people. i was talking to a business person the other day you has what he is calling a reshoring initiative. he is trying to do that, to provide information to companies who have contemplated where to put production or are thinking of off shoring. when they calculate their costs, they're making a mistake because they do not count all the costs of quality control, travel back and forth for the managers, the risk of currency appreciation, or some other change. you do not have those risks when you are producing in the united states. not only do we need to create a different mindset for the corporations, but we also need to make sure that we are investing in the skills of our work force so we have no question whatsoever. we have a terrific work force in

the united states, but as an industrialized nation, we need to constantly invest in improving and enhancing those skills so we have the best workers in the world. int: let's hear from robert clifton, tennessee, on the republican line. caller: i was wondering, we have heard a lot of talk about the government's role in the lost jobs and what the corporations' role in lost jobs overseas is. what is the union's role in that? you do have some liability in that area as far as helping us lose these jobs. host: how are you seeing that play out? in what way are you thinking that is happening? caller: the company that i previously worked for, 12 or 14 years ago, something like that -- they came to us and said the jobs are going to china.

so we asked, how do we stop that? and the solution was to vote out our union and they would keep the budget in place that paid us and paid the benefits for the union, they would keep that budget intact. and once we got rid of the union we would take that money and spread it amongst the employees. we would all get a raise and keep the factory there in our home town. guest: did it work? caller: yes, it worked. it is still there and it is still going strong. guest: that is one tactic, and i'm glad it worked for you. unions are there to protect the wages and the conditions of our members. we try to work with unions and workers in other countries because our basic belief is that every worker in the world should

have decent working conditions. they need to be able to bargain for our fair share. we fight hard to protect the rights of workers everywhere. we do not think companies ought to be able to play workers against each other, to threaten workers with offshore in or downsizing if they do not take deep cuts or they do not take unsafe working conditions or longer hours. we want good working conditions for american workers, but we want good working conditions for workers all over the world. we think that is a basic human right. host: confined "outsourced" on the afl-cio website. thank you for being with us this morning. coming up next, we will talk about terrorism and cargo security with clark kent ervin. first an update from c-span radio. >> election workers in alaska

have been looking at thousands of write-in ballots today to determine whether there are enough votes for senator lisa murkowski to win the election or whether the courts will get the say in her race against joe miller. on capitol hill, leadership roles for the new congress are scheduled to be voted on next week, but democrats marcy captor and peter defazio are allowed -- asking democrats to spend more time before voting on those positions. the two democrats are calling on party leaders to postpone the house elections until december, a move that could give potential challengers to speaker nancy pelosi and top lieutenants more time to gather their forces. congressman defazio as indicated in the past that he does not support nancy pelosi continuing as top democrat in the house.

senate majority leader -- senate minority leader mitch mcconnell is challenging the constitutionality the new health care reform law. he says the requirement that nearly all americans buy insurance "dramatically oversteps the bounds of the commerce clause," adding that if the mandate is deemed constitutional there will no longer be any real limits on congress' power to limit activity. >> this year's student cam video documentary competition is in full swing. make a 5 to 8 minute video of this year's theme, "washington d.c. through my lens." upload a video for your chance to win a grand prize of $5,000. for all the rules and how to upload your video, go online to studentcam.org. >> "washington journal"

continues. host: clark kent ervin joins us. we want to get your insights into the recent decisions by the government to tighten up security on cargo security. guest: a number of steps have been taken in recent days, and they all make a lot of sense. since the plot unfolded, air cargo has been banned from flights to the united states from yemen, and the ban has been somalia.to in addition to that, there is now a ban of all high-risk cargo on passenger flights bound for the united states. most people did not realize before this plot unfolded that about 20% of air cargo flights on passenger flights. so now cargo deemed to be high- risk has been banned, and there

is greater scrutiny generally on air cargo on all cargo flights. finally there is a ban on toner and printer cartridges exceeding 16 ounces, given the size of the toner and printer cartridges uncovered during the course of this plot. host: a bomb was discovered in england on october 30. it was mailed in yemen and was destined for an address in chicago. it was found based on a tip from a saudi informant. a second bomb was intercepted and a fedex facility in dubai. britain responded by banning cargo from yemen and somalia. technology that scans large amounts of cargo is costly. why? guest: because time is really critical. the speed of air cargo is critical to the flowing of commerce. much of it is pelletized, packed together very tightly. there is good news that

technology is out there that's been developed that holds a promise of being able to scan the cargo efficiently. but i have been concerned for a number of years that air cargo is what i call the soft underbelly of security generally, certainly aviation security. so if there is any good news to come out of this plot other than the fact that it was foiled, it is that i hope we can urgently move this technology from the lab into the field. host: how much was air cargo talk about that when you were working for the administration? guest: very little, and we do not close the security caps -- caps until they are exploited. there was very little scrutiny of air cargo on flights that had only cargo, a relatively little scrutiny also of cargo a passenger flights. the average passenger at one time or another was flying on a

a plane that held cargo that was not subjected to any scanning at all. the good news is that in 2007, over the objection of the bush administration, which was understandably concerned about the impact on trade and the technological feasibility of scanning cargo efficiently, passed requiring scans of cargo on passenger flights. the tsa says they have met the deadline for domestic cargo but that they are some years away from scanning all cargo on passenger planes bound for the united states from abroad. obviously that is the greater concern, so i hope there is greater urgency now to developing technology that can scan this international cargo efficiently and economically and effectively. host: that security may be

surprising to our audience when they go through security scans, their luggage goes through security scans, and cargo has not been brought to the forefront until just recently. one of the other things you talked about our new rules about toner and ink cartridges, and this also from "the washington post come out that a homeland security secretary napolitano onended last week's's ban air cargo from yemen to include somebody. this is because the incident we are talking about specifically with the bomb disguised as a toner cartridge. it seems very reactionary. guest: exactly, and that is the problem with it. all these measures make some sense, but the terrorists are very adaptive. they learn from these incidents, so in the future they will not hide a bomb in toner cartridges are print cartridges of any size. i am also concerned about the notion of focusing only high-

risk cargo. it means there is particular scrutiny of cargo coming from yemen, somalia, saudi arabia, pakistan, that we know are linked to terrorism. and there is scrutiny being attached to cargo from unknown shippers, people in companies that do not routinely shipped to the united states. all that makes sense, but what is going to happen in the future is that terrorists will start shipping from iceland, norway, countries we do not typically associated terrorism. they will somehow penetrate into companies that we already do business with. we were able to foil the spot because of good intelligence, but the nature of intelligence is that it is imperfect. we do not have the precise type of intelligence that can allow us to foil all the spots. we have the technology and hold

the promise of doing that, but we need to speed the development of it. host: how much would that slowdown shipping and business? guest: right now it is slowed down considerably. we cannot afford that at any time comic especially at this -- we cannot afford that and any time, especially at this time of economic distress. i am confident that the country that put a man on the moon in 10 years, that develop atomic weapons, we still have unsurpassed technological capability. our primary failure is a failure of imagination. the 9/11 commission famously said that 9/11 was not prevented because of a failure of imagination. we had never been an attack in that fashion, and therefore subconsciously we thought it was impossible. we have the same phenomenon continuing. we always fight the last war. we wait until a particular security gap is exploited, and

then we closed it. i'm worried about the next vulnerability. i worried about the maritime situation. what is to present signed scanning -- 100% scanning of maritime cargo is supposed to happen by 2012. it is a huge terror targets that will one day be exploited. so we need to be ahead of terrorists and not always be one step behind that. host: clark kent ervin, d hall led security department inspector general from 2003 to 2004. to join the conversation as democrats, called 202-737-0002. republicans, 202-737-0001. and independent callers, 202- 628-0205. let's go to the republican column. caller: good morning. my question is, the

transportation organization is a union organization, correct? guest: it is not correct. the tsa was without a leader for much too long -- and the leader is considering this issue, a collective bargaining, right now. that will have to be approved by the white house, whatever that decision is. but it is not the case that tsa is currently subject to collective bargaining. caller: you said on a previous program that you accolade that -- host: chester? what is your last comments here? caller: my comment is, it is the tsa going afl-cio overseas?

guest: the tsa is not overseas. the tsa works here in the united states, in the issue of collective bargaining is -- host: how much does tsa have to implement new rules, new decisions? how far does that have to come from when we as passengers have to go through scans? guest: these rules have to be decided in consultation with the department of homeland security and with the white house, the national security council. it is a rigorous process. host: let's talk about body scanners. how do you feel about them? guest: i think they are a huge events over metal detectors, a technology that has been in use since the 1970's. with the christmas day bombing plot, the metal detectors are unable to detect the kinds of expertly concealed explosive devices that are of greatest concern to us.

so the whole body imager, because they can see through clothing and spot anomalies that well may be indicative of explosives, i think it is a huge advance from 2003 and 2004 when we knew about the technology but we were not fling it. that said, they are not perfect technology, and tsa acknowledges this. they are an anomaly detector, which means that somebody has to look at the screen, notice there is something unusual on the body, and investigate as to whether it is something to be concerned about or not. the next generation is under development now. that is an automated explosive detection technology, which can determine automatically with no human intervention whether what is at issue is in fact an explosive, and if so, what kind. host: let's hear from john, a democrat from columbus, ohio.

caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call this morning. i just want to make a comment about the security issue in this country. one thing we need to do as here from-- i'm africa, and i think what we need to do is to compromise some of our freedom for our safety. because when you have an enemy that is after you, you have to ask the question -- we worship god and he gives us direction on how to live. he is our protector, but the other thing we have to do, we have to lock our door even though we pray that the angel protect our home. at nighttime we still have to lock our doors.

so when you are getting on a plane, you are flying 35,000 feet above. when something happens, there are no survivors, only by the grace of god. we need to compromise some of our freedoms and so that everybody can get on our planes. host: so john is saying there is a balance between personal freedom and protection. where does that boundary line, though? folks have said that the body scanners are an invasion of privacy. guest: john raises a fundamental issue, the balance between safety and liberty. my personal view is that the body scanners pose a very small in privacy. there is an outline of the body, no viewing of genitalia.

the images cannot be stored. i think tsa has done everything reasonable to diminish the threat to privacy. but the larger issue is just that. we americans do have to give up some of our liberties to increase security to some extent. to me, taking off shoes until we have technology that can allow us to keep on our shoes, we have to take them off. to me that is a small intrusion for a huge potential gain in security. at the other end of the spectrum, it was a although usa today" story that the -- it was a "usa today" story that a record of all calls it was -- to me that it's a huge -- that is a huge violation of privacy.

host: let's go to panama city, florida. caller: mr. ervin, i am shocked at what is either your complete ignorance or you're out right misrepresentation of what you're saying here on this screen. i would submit, sir, that what you're saying is nothing more than to go ahead and gain support for a vast security network that benefits only those that are supplying the security and adds no safety to us. you bring up all of the screening that would only hurt commerce. well, sir, you worry about little packages in planes when we have wide-open borders were tons of drugs and thousands of people come over every single day. guest: well, i thought the caller was making the point that security is overblown. there is a group of people that

believe that these security measures are unnecessary, that the security threat is exaggerated. we hear fewer of those voices now that we came so close to a successful attack in the united states. he is actually making the opposite point, i see, at the end, obviously concerned about the borders. there is no question there is a potential terror threat posed by the difficulty of actually closing the border to illegal immigration. that said, i think the department of homeland security has made tremendous progress over the years in dramatically increasing the number of border patrol agents. also on the technology front there have been some of advances to create this virtual fence, but it has been troubled technologically. we do not have that fully in force yet. efforts are under way to do something about that the win 4 board. the main point is i think that the about that going forward -- about that going forward.

most people are not trying to do us harm. the question is, how do we differentiate between those seeking to do work and seeking to do harm? host: clark kent ervin is also a member of the wartime contracts the effort on iraq and afghanistan. he was also an associate director of policy in the white house office of national service under george h. w. bush. he was also the taxes deputy attorney general and worked under the office of assistant secretary of state. fort lauderdale, florida, a republican. good morning. caller: i have to look at the overall cost of security. the president is saying we will have a security force that is

equal to the military. that is a tremendous cost to us and our freedoms. however, you'll want to go to the border situation. we had six people murdered last week alone on the border. in the long term, it is going to be more of a trek then aid is for -- this is a political issue in which we do not have the will to close the borders. guest: obviously this is an issue that has a huge emotional impact in the country, but in my nexus to the terror in exc illegal immigration is a small one. host: as we look at the united

states move to tighten their security, you say there are other things that should be on the radar screen, like maritime shipping, cargo coming in to the ports. give us a sense of your vision. 10 years in the future, what the security look like? how do we anticipate rather than react? guest: there are a number of things we need to do to get us to where we need to be 10 years from now. the first thing, we need to think about what terror vulnerabilities have not yet been exploited, and the process of closing them now. we need to redouble our efforts to develop technology that, like in the air cargo context, can efficiently and economically scan maritime cargo. there has been a pilot underway in the port of hong kong, one of the busiest ports in the world, that shows that cargo cannot be scanned very efficiently at a cost of about $20 per cargo container. the shippers there say they are willing to bear that cost if

there were to be, god forbid, excess asphalt -- a successful deployment of a nuclear weapon, it would shut down commerce for years. i talked about mass transit security earlier. after every mass transit scared, we do all the right things. in washington, new york, and other mass transit cities, there are more bomb sniffing dogs, greater deployment of more bomb detecting technology. it is ratcheted back after the scare passes. i think they need to be institutionalized for the problem is they are very costly and these are very tight budgetary times. cities and states are even more strapped than the federal government. security is not cheap. i am a republican, a conservative, and i do not call

for greater respending. but the department of homeland security is literally a fraction, $40 billion, as opposed to -- we know that al qaeda continues to find these small venues and exploit that. host: is there a role that the private sector has to play? guest: yes, there is a huge role for the private sector can and part of the good news here is that there is a lot of technological innovation in this country, and the indicators tend to be these small companies. it is difficult for the small companies to break through the washington for bureaucracy and get a hearing. host: let's go to william, democratic caller in north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning.

we need to tighten security and also get more people back to work. we have a lot of people out because a lot of jobs have moved to mexico. we need to bring the factories back over here are our people can go to work and unemployment will go down. host: do you have any questions for clark kent ervin about cargo security and the terror threat? caller: i know it is expensive to have more security, but the personnel checking people in and out, they need to check it more closely and be more careful about what they have with them. host: so we come back to expense. it is expensive, but it is important to do the

investigation. guest: that is right, and it is important that the people who do the screening be well-trained. i have called air screeners the last line of defense before another group of would-be terrorists aboard airplanes. there is very little checking of passengers or their check-in bags checked at the gate. if a person -- not every airplane has the air marshal, and not every air marshal will be able to -- we need to focus on the tsa work force and make sure they are optimally trade. host: we have a comment on twitter. "talking about technology is fine, but security measures should not start an america's shores. other nations have poor standards."

guest: the system as a whole is only strong as its weakest link. there are limits to what the united states can impose on other countries. certainly poorer countries like yemen, like pakistan, do not have the money to buy these sophisticated scanning devices. we cannot mandate that they implement these measures. the ultimate hope is that the united states can stop entry of foreign airlines, but we, too, depend on international trade and travel. we have to work to harmonize standards and protocols and technologies, and in those instances where foreign countries do not have the funding to support these technologies, the united states has to help them do that. caller: you made a couple of comments. number 1, you want to get out ahead of the terrorists and

secure areas that they have not yet breached. the common person out there is just saying, hey, our border is just ready and ripe for some sort of breach. now, you mentioned that you do not feel like the border is a threat. can you help me be educate us as to why we should not be worried about the border? guest: sure. the overwhelming evidence shows that those seeking to enter the united states illegally come here searching for work, not to carry out terror attacks. there have been no instances where the people have penetrated our land borders who are subsequently found to be linked to a terror plot. occasionally people are found at the border come from countries of concern, but those people have not yet been linked to terror plot. that is not to say that that cannot happen in the future. the general point i am making

here is that we need to get ahead of terror threats, not wait until they get exported. the overwhelming weight of the evidence suggests that the real impetus is economic. i'm all for further increase in the deployment of border control agents. the number is significantly higher than it was in the bush administration. the bush administration dramatically increased it. the to the obama -- the obama administration has done more. we need cameras and sensors that work. we need to develop this technology to complement the manpower along the border, but there are a number of vulnerabilities, and i am more concerned about the aviation vulnerability, the maritime vulnerabilities, the mass transit vulnerabilities because of the record of terrorists having looked at these and in certain cases exploited these balder abilities. -- to these vulnerabilities. host: let's go back to twitter.

"what do the american people think tsa labor is worth?" how much skill is involved in this? how much training should be involved, and should they be paid very well? guest: i think they should be paid very well. there is no more critical function than our defense. that is the first job of government since tsa officers are counterterrorism officials, i think they ought to be paid very well in deed. what they get what they get paid is minimum wage, mcdonald's pay. i've been concerned for a number of years by the repeated inspector general reports, media investigations, that showed you know what you were doing and it is easy to sneak a guns and bombs past. it is holding, as i say,

screeners and their managers accountable for performance, and it is also at technology. a key part of it is tsa personnel. to be fair to them, it is mind- numbing work, literally, to stand there for hours -- there is a limit to what the human brain can process. i am for helping them in every way possible to make sure that they understand they are valued. part of that, of his the, is compensation. host: and so when increase -- the tweeter was looking for an exact number, but you are just saying to boosted. guest: i am opposed to collective bargaining with tsa screeners, because they are critical counter-terrorism agents at of the anyone who defends the country should be subjected to the benefits of collective bargaining, because the defense of the country depends on their being able to be deployed at will. host: our guest, clark kent

ervin, is with the aspen institute. he was also the inspector general for the homeland security department in 2000 and 2004, its early years. -- in 2003 and 2004, its early years. republicans' line. good morning. caller: good morning. my comment is basically on what would be the cause and effect. we know what the effect is of what is happening there. our borders are really dangerous. we are going through a lot of changes with what is happening in the world. that is the fact. i noticed that you call yourself a republican. i have been a republican, i never denied being a republican all these years. i don't like the things that have happened, but what is happening is -- the fact is we

have a lot of problems. -- the fact is that we have a lot of problems. here we are in the united states, a lack of work, and no government really wants to challenge us in war like manner. but they are challenging us at a commercial manner, and economic manner. the effect is that we have a lot of problems. what is the actual cause of our problems with other countries in this world? we are really going through a lot of changes. can you answer that question? guest: well, that is a rather large question. let me try to answer it this way. part of our problem is that we really don't understand well what is that motivates someone

to engage in terror acts. we have got to somehow get into the mindset, the psyche, these mostly young people who pervert the peaceful religion of islam and attempt to kill innocent people in the name of islam. i am a member of the homeland security advisory council that secretary napolitano has established, former government officials and private officials, and one of our task is to look into that issue how to counter radicalism that becomes my lof violent. how do we get ahead of the curve in this regard? it is a critical question that ec governments grappling with every day. host: georgia, democrats' line. hi there. caller: what i will say is that america really needs to look at our policies towards other countries. it is the reason that other countries do hate us.

i'm a diehard american, i have been in the military and i fight for my country. but we need to look at the way we have been engaged we do not need to be all supportive of israel, and i look to the palestinian people, and america needs to be the roughly their maybe people would stop attacking us because we need to be more fair and stop picking partners with our policies but be fair and balanced. guest: the caller raises an interesting question ended t -- and it has been a source of debate among counter-terrorism experts. do they hate us because of our values, or because of specific policies, in this conflict or the other? chances are that the answer is elite both -- really both. it is rarely ever the case that there is one answer to a complicated question to the administration is trying very, very hard to solve the israeli- palestinian question, for

example, to encourage the indians and pakistanis to salt the conflict between them with regard to kashmir. as i say, the issue of what really motivates terrorists is a very complex one. we are grappling with it and doing what we can, but it is difficult. host: california, republican caller. caller: good morning. i will tell you my take on all of this. the biggest threat we of got in this country is the labor unions. i will tell you why . they drove this country into the ditch. they drove all the jobs out of here. tell me, what union as the terrorists belong to? host: can you direct your question to our guest related to security issues, border security? caller: that's what i'm talking about. everything you do and in this country costs so much money did

why does it cost so much money? because of unions. if you don't give them what they about- they don't care security. guest: well, i am generally a fan of unions. i'm opposed to collective bargaining for security. i will leave it at that. host: there was a discussion about where the spot packages were destined to. were they destined to the plan itself, or someplace else? talk about cargo jets as a method of transport for bombs versus as a destructive device themselves. guest: that is an interesting question. we don't really know where the target was. the consensus seems to be that the packages in question were not intended ultimately to be to e synagogues in chicago. the names were up medieval

figures that will prominence in the psyche of islamic -- that hold prominence in the psyche of islamic fighters. those are additional reasons to think that synagogues or not the target. it appears that the targets were passenger planes. about 20% of air cargo goes on passenger planes. passenger planes carry 300, 400, i wonder people -- 500 people. that would be an attack approaching the scale of 9/11. cochairs were out with a report saying that we have this homegrown terrorist threat now, and the threat of terrorism is metastasizing, and we are likely to see more small-scale attacks, but unlikely to see catastrophic attack. i generally agree with that, but i don't agree with the notion that we will not see catastrophic tax. i think we will see both.

it remains the case that al qaeda, and they are active in yemen, behind this particular plot, is determined not just to carry out small attacks, which are very easy to do, and we have seen evidence of that, but also to do large-scale attacks on the scale of or exceeding the scale of 9/11. as we approach the anniversary, i am particularly scared of another large scale attack. i think there is a role for the average american to play. largely the work of county tourism is the work of a -- largely the work of counterterrorism is the work of a government officials. there are tens of thousands of law enforcement personnel around the country. we have 300 million citizens. citizens understand better than anybody what is normal in their communities and what is abnormal. what is an anomaly. this campaign that started in new york and has been nationalized by secretary of all

to know, if you see something, say something, -- has been nationalized by secretary napolitano, if you see something, says on the, is very important. it can help us foiled plots and has done so in a number of instances. host: warren, democrats' line. caller: good morning, c-span. i love your show. you have a great guest today. all sorts of a philosophical things about the place we live, and it is a sad state in today's america work you sacrifice everything and go against being a free country. i think what we really need to wrestle with is who we want to be we really want our daughters to be scanned and have our privacy violated? are we going to throw away everything we want our country to be so that we feel a little

bit safer? host: warren, it sounds like this is an emotional issue for you. caller: it is really disgusting. i believe in god. i'm not afraid of dying. i am not sure why we are willing to spend all this money and give up everything in terms of freedom and said all of these weapons to israel and saudi arabia and pakistan, the number one weapons proliferate and the world. what you expect? guest: let me leave the weapons issue aside. warren raises the liberty versus security issue. i believe security can be compatible with liberty. it is very important that we not divest ourselves totally or even largely of liberties in pursuit of that security. it is important that they be harmonized. i hearken back to the telegram in the cold war that george kennan offered when we were focused on communism, that the

one thing ultimately that would order us is that in to defeat our enemies we become like them. we have got to come as security and a pretty good there is a way to do that, and a good example -- we have got to harmonize security and liberty. there is a way to do that, and a good example is taking off the shoes. host: you talk about americans being the eyes and ears of the community. where is the boundary between that and racial profiling? we had at the issue with juan williams making the comments on fox news saying he was uncomfortable when he saw muslims on an airplane how to -- when he saw muzzle on an airpla -- muslims on an airplane. guest: i am glad you raised that

issue, libby. this can very easily slip into racial or ethnic profiling. this is quite suspicious behavior, as opposed to suspicious people -- there is behavior we ought to focus on. if someone is keeping som -- is leaving something behind in effort of fashion, multiple layers of clothing on a hot day, looking intently at places we know are likely to be terror targets, photograph and then hingatedly -- photograp them repeatedly, that is all behavior, as opposed to looks or what someone religious practices are. host: john, independent caller in north carolina. caller: a, how are you? host: welcome. caller: i have a couple of

comments. i was wonderi about the naked body snners. i think he is a workers should have to post their naked body images -- tsa workers should have opposed their naked body images on line so that everybody can see them. we cannot secure our borders if we have military bases in 130 countries about the world. how can we maintain those? we cannot secure our own borders. we are the world dictator and we try to spread democracy everywhere. guest: he called some naked scanners. i think every reasonable measure has been taken to minimize the danger to privacy, and because they can spot anomalies, they are, as i say, a huge advance over metal detectors, and it is critical we deploy them all over

the country. host: there is discussion about people who don't feel comfortable with that, the alternative. guest: the alternative is a physical pat down to it to me that is much more intrusive -- the alternative is it physical pack down. to me that is much more intrusive. host: philip, republican. caller: hello, mr. ervin. i have a quick comment about individual freedom. i just wonder at what point does intrusions stop? i understand that as attacks escalate, security measures would have to be enhanced. i am a little bit worried. i remember a quotation from thomas jefferson that said if our country ever falls victim to germany, it would be -- victim to tyranny, it would be in the

disguise of a foreign enemy. we have to shift the focus from security -- i think it is so vital that we focus on the ideological reasons why these people are attacking us, so that we don't have to be scared and have our freedoms a bridge -- abridged and we can maybe some date for a dialogue with these people. guest: i think he makes an essentially good point, that we need to get ahead of the narrative and figure out what motivates terrorists and do what we can address that. unfortunately, we don't have the electorate to do just that. we have got to identify and close security gaps. these are defensive measures, in addition to offensive measures, killing and capturing as many terrorists as we can. we need to do all this simultaneously. it is a complicated rule and there is a lot to do and we have to do it all at once. host: clark kent ervin, a former inspector general at the

homeland security department, now at the aspen institute, thank you for joining us. coming up, we'll talk about a campaign to end child put on her, with the founder and exhibit of director of share our strength, bill shore, and actor jeff bridges. first, an update from c-span radio. >> to our people applied for unemployment aid last week, the third drop a -- fewer people applied for unemployment aid last week, the third drop in four weeks. if the decline continues, it could signal a meaningful improvement in the job market. the commerce department says the u.s. trade deficit narrowed slightly in september but was still running well above last year's gap. the obama administration is calling to other countries to do more to rebalance global gwth. in a letter sent tuesday to the leaders of the g-20, a key defense steps his administration

and congress have taken -- he defends steps is administration and congress have taken to boost the economy. the president arrived in south korea a few hours ago for the g- 20 summit. it begins tomorrow ""usa today de" reports that the number of federal workers are earning one outer $50,000 or more a year has risen tenfold -- earning $150,000 or more a year has risen tenfold in the past five years and has doubled since obama took office. in index session of congress will be used to challenge the president's plans the two give a raise to federal workers. rep. jason chaffetz of utah says he wants a pay freeze and would prefer a pay cut. benefits of increased 3% annually.

those are the latest headlines from c-span radio. >> saturday, a landmark supreme court cases on c-span radio. >> there is nothing in the united states constitution concerning birth, contraception, or abortion. >> argued in 1971 and ruled on in 1973, roe v. wade is considered one of the court's most ponderous of decisions. on saturday, listen to the arguments at 6 -- one of the court's most controversial decisions. on saturday, listen to the arguments at 6:00 p.m. on c-span radio. >> the c-span networks. we provide coverage of politics, public affairs, nonfiction books, and american history. it is available to you on television, radio, on-line, social media networking sites. find our content any time through c-span video library. we take c-span on the road with

our local content video. resources toing your community. created by cable, provided as a public service. "washington journal" continues. host: our guests are bill shore, a founder and executive director of a share our strength, and jeff bridges, after a spokesman for share our strength. thanks for being with us. mr. bridges, you will be talking to the national press club about this campaign. how did you get interested in the issue of children who are hungry? guest: this was back in 1983. i founded an organization called the end hungerford networ -- end hunger network. there is enough food, we have enough money, we know the

solutions to end it, but what is missing is the political will. what can i do to help create the political will? i said, well, i involved in the entertainment industry, i deal with the media all the time, doing like what we're doing here. i can help spread the word about this problem and get people involved in it. i will give you the long list, but my organization has -- i will not give you the long list, but my organization has done some wonderful things. this campaign that bill shore has come up with is so exciting to me, this no kid hungry campaign. it really feels like we could end hunger in our country by 2015. that is what the campaign is all about. it is not about creating new programs, and experimenting with programs that might not work. , food stamps,ms

the school meal programs, already in place. the problem is they are not getting to enough kids. that is what no kid hungry campaign is all about, working with governors and mayors to see that literally a billion dollars is available to states that is not being used to feed our children, and not only feed kids, but also stimulates the economy. that is what the campaign is about . 015, anill shore, 2 ambitious goal? guest: it is, but unlike many issues you focus on at this show all the time, this is a solvable problem. i think it was right to set the goal of 2015 as something that the obama administration has

endorsed. as jeff said, when you look at the percentage of kids could is abating and programs that already exist, -- kids participating in programs that already exist, it is disappointing that after bipartisan programs that we know work, school lunch, and of the 20 million kids that get school lunch because they are from families that need the type of support, only 2 million of those that summer feeding, because schools are closed. they have to rely on other sources. we know that these programs work. we have to people involved in them. host: we are talking to jeff bridges and bills for abou -- ad bill shore about the no kid hungry campaign. mr. shore, we think about the

issue of food and children, and we often think about childhood obesity. first lady michelle obama has spearheaded a campaign to make kids healthier, but we don't hear as much about kids who go hungry. why are they going hungry? guest: the two issues you mentioned jeff and i refer to as opposite sides of the same point kids are hungry and kids are obese because families don't have information to make the courses they need we are in a situation where 44 million americans live below the poverty line. half of those are kids. when you are in an economy that least that many people behind, even before the recession, you are going to have kids who are hungry. but there are solutions jeff and i had a fantastic opportunity to

visit a school in northeast washington, the word-income neighborhood. 85% of the kids were on free or reduced price plunge. whothey brought eigha chef in brought in all fresh produce. we would like to sit down and have launched here. guest: the surprising thing is that they make better use of the dollars that the regular schools. -- than the regular schools. they save money doing it that way. guest: and making a documentary and looking at that, share our strength is well positioned to do. host: the next to reality program, perhaps?

guest: that's not a bad idea. good work, libby. host: use said that there are things already in place to get food to kids. often at the schools where they get the meals of the day to it as the education after happen in schools? -- where they get the meals of the day. does the education have to happen in schools? guest: one of the smart tactics here is to work with governors and mayors who are really in touch with their people and find out where the gaps are and deal with them. each one is different. it could be a problem of just transportation, but it must is not there -- that the bus does not get there in time to take .art in the maeal a major problem is the stigma.

it is embarrassment to be the freewho needs the fema -- meal. the same thing goes with the parents, the pride issue, not wanting to sign up for programs that kind of acknowledge that i cannot provide for my kids. but we all need help sometimes. these issues need to be paid attention to. the programs, while they are in place, there are reasons they're not getting there. we have to look at those and deal with them. host: there are teachers who bring food to school so that they can sneak it to children who are not getting enough during the school day. how do you connect with communities that know they need better nutrition and meals for their kids with the programs and infrastructure? guest: i am glad he mentioned

teachers, we d -- you mentioned teachers, where -- because we did a survey that said that 65% of teachers saying that harbor is an issue for kids. one of the things that jeff brings to the issue that is so powerful is a voice that people will listen to. governor o'malley made maryland the first state in the country to commit to ending child hunger. what the governors are doing is saying to school superintendents, why aren't kids getting more summer feeding and school breakfast? let's bring these dollars in. although government is part of the solution, the government is not the solution. this is about public-private partnership. there are summer feeding sites.

schools played a role. teachers play a role. this is a comprehensive, public- private partnership, that brings the community together. guest: and by using the funds that are available, at this million dollars available to states, it not only solves the problem of ending childhood hunger, but it also improves the economy, brings all the money to the economy. host: mike joins us from kentucky. caller: if we make schools year round, that would cover summertime, but i think breakfast and lunch should be free for all students. that is the, i have to make. for people opposed to voting like that, that is never going to happen. thank you, have a nice day. guest: the school we visited yesterday, they have universal breakfast. every child who comes to the school gets a free breakfast.

it addresses the stigma issue. guest: it is hard to be the one kid who says, i cannot afford a meal. you handle that by the universal meal program. host: madison, wisconsin, melanie on the republican line. caller: good morning. host: you are on with bill shore and jeff bridges prep. caller: jesus christ made feeding the hungry one of this -- host: go ahead. we hear you loud and clear. caller: anyone a labeling themselves as conservative or republican who argues that job could number -- that childhood hunger simply means that the parents need to pull themselves by the bootstraps and try harder are on were the and a -- are unworthy and selfish.

people need to be realistic about this problem and act more on/and christlike. -- more unselfish and christlike. guest: i could not agree more. guest: it is not just a political issue, it is a spiritual issue. guest: pride in your country, being patriotic. what could be more priotic than feeding children? host: you mentioned public- private partnerships. what is the role of private industry? is there a point where the government goes too far? guest: yes, i think there is definitely a government role, and that is not just my opinion. there is bipartisan support for 30 years, democrats and republicans, who said that there's a segment of our community that is so horrible

-- so vulnerable that they will need help. we met a man who runs a program that serves 5000 families that have an average income, under seven house dollars -- under $7,000, many of which have children who live with elderly parents, grandparents, or are disabled. all of us believe that when it comes to the most vulnerable, we want to help. but it is not government on that can solve this -- government alone can solve this problem. we work with con agra and wal- mart. i know that jeff seize this issue is a common ground we are so -- and they just seized this issue it as common ground. we are so divided politically, as last week showed. host: tracy, democratic caller.

caller: the last two colors had a really good points -- callers had really good points. it would be really nice if every child was fed in school. actually, it would be fair, because in the country is the law to send your kids to school. i've been on both sides, where i have received help, and then i did not qualify. i will tell you, when you don't qualify for help -- i heard mr. shore mention families with income under 700,000 -- under $7,000. in order to qualify, you have to be almost destitute, have no income at all. i found that while i was working, i would be in a worse situation working, because i did not qualify for any help or food. the money i had for food had to go to transportation and child

care. guest: that is one of the barriers we have to deal with, the red tape in eligibility issues. great, great point, tracy. host: to use your about things like that -- do you hear about things like that when talking to families? guest: absolutely. it is too big hassle but the depression and sense of failure freezes you. it is tough. appreciate your call, traci. guest: although we recognize that a hunter is a symptom of a set of deeper issues like poverty and problems traci was talking about, we don't have answers to all those problems, but we do have the answers when it comes to kids. we know how to stop this piece of it. host: jeff bridges, you said you

started the end on your network in the 1980's. -- end hunger network in the 1980's. what inspired you to do that? guest: the enormity of world hunger, the fact that there was enough food, enough money, we knew how to do it, we have proven solutions to it, countries that ended honker. -- hunger. i asked myself inside, what are you going to do, not just to scratched the gilts -- scratch the guilt itch, but what can he do it in your normal life -- what can you do in your normal life? i am an actor, i deal with the media all the time, and this is something i can do with the end --ger network rework on

network. we worked with the live aid conference, provided facts and figures between acts. maybe 10 years after we started the organization, we decided to shift our conversation to convert in the country, because some of the safety net's we were talking about were not being fully funded. it's kind of the same problem that exists today. host: were you surprised to hear about the problems here in america, after doing the international -- guest: absolutely. for a while we had it handled, then the polls started to appear. hos -- holes started to appear. host: alexandria, virginia, republican caller. caller: thank you for c-span2 it is great that someone like mr.

bridges is behind this issue. i wanted to make two points based on observations that are slightly different than what your guests suggest the first is parentale first is indifference to the matter your guest mentioned that it was a problem with information, but information to parents is a pretty easy thing to take care of. i have two daughters that have children, and despite my repeated insistence on lessons learned on nutrition, they are still in different and they don't have the income issues. i would imagine in lower income families is not as much a matter of information as it is in difference. guest: i think that is a good point.

i agree with the indifference -- i don't know if just the parents are to blame, but i think in difference is kind of what we are calling out to people, to say it to look at this indifference, let's not be indifferent about this problem. it is not only ending the suffering of the child, but also, our nation, by having an adult who is going through harbor as a child, at least educationally and technically he is not up to snuff. you are going to create a weaker work force. this indifference issue you're talking about is it, basically, and one of the remedies is reaching people out there who are moved by what we're talking about.

if you go to nokidhungry.org and find out what you personally tended to end hunger -- what you personally can do to the needs of hunger -- to end hunger in the country and take the pledge, that i am committed to ending childhood hunger in the country by 2015. good point. host: he talks about kids not necessarily heeding advice on eating healthy foods. there is education on healthy foods, and there is also food insecurity, people who don't have money to buy food or don't know where the next meal is coming from. can you talk about the difference? guest: yes, and we have to deal with both of those. kids who are hungry on a chronic basis because they are not getting enough food, and then there are the families who live

on the edge to such a degree that they do not know if they will be able to buy groceries by the end of the month and provide kids with what they need. part of it is getting resources to these families could there is no substitute for parental responsibility. that is important as well. but it is also getting them the information. part and parcel of this campaign is the nutritional components. we work with chefs and restaurateurs are around the country who teach low-income families how to cook for their kids and the ways that are nutritious and affordable and fun. if you know how to carve up a chicken, you can buy a whole chicken at the courses are rather than chicken parts -- by a whole chicken at the grocery store rather than chicken parts. there are choices for families that make sense for the budget. it is an important component of

this. >> let's look at this public service announcement by the no kid hungry campaign. >> one in four kids in the u.s. faces hunger. in this land of plenty, there are kids who do not know whether they will get their next meal. joint share our strength and take the pledge to end childhood hunger in america by 2015 could learn how act nokidhungry.org. the next meal could come from you. host: our guests are jeff bridges, academy award-winning actor, and bill shore, founder of share our strength. we heard your voice in that psa and saw you for a moment there. do you feel that this issue is resonating with people? you have mentioned that you have heard from democrats and republicans that this is something they can get behind.

guest: yes, i do feel that the environment seems to have made a shift. like one of the callers said, this indifference -- that particular barrier is being knocked down. i just sensed that. host: do you feel that the economic woes of the country are making people more sensitive to the plight of others? guest: absolutely. i think more so. definitely. host: pat on the independent line in california. thank you for joining us. caller: thank you for taking my call. thank you for c-span. jeff, i am a big fan of yours. thank you, mr. shore, for the work you are doing on this worthwhile campaign to rid my granddaughter, who i am raising -- on this worthwhile campaign. my granddaughter, who i am are below poverty

level, and we qualify for breakfast and lunch. one thing i would encourage you to take a look at is the menus they are providing on the free lunches. monday, pizza for lunch. tuesday, pizza for lunch. wednesday, pizza pockets for lunch. thursday, a chicken sandwich, which she likes. but she comes ohome semihungry. you are working so hard and putting some effort into this -- putting so much effort into this, but what i was in school, which was years ago, we had the cafeteria and the food was cooked right there and we had the choices and you got in line and you got hot mashed potatoes and gravy. i am sure you probably had the same thing. all of this food is brought in and all that is frozen, nuked in

microwaves. you are going to put this time and effort into this, i think we better look at what they are serving the kids. guest: that is just a great point, pat. it was inspiring to go to that school yesterday. the charter school here in d.c. what they have done with the money is allow schools to provide nutrition for the kids. what they did at this school, first of all, there was a garden that the kids attended for the salad bar. they were eating their votown lettuce and salads. went shopping to allow them to test their taste buds

and bellies. he was making money from the money that the government was giving. saving money that could be used for their education. host: mr. shore, for our listeners in washington, d.c., texas, new york, they say that that sounds so great a i want that for my community. how do they make that happen? guest: as jeff said, go to nokidhungry.org. there is a lot of information for your community. the first lady asked us to bring chefs to the white house and we brought 700 to the south lawn of the white house, almost everyone of them committing to go back to their community and make a difference on the meals we are talking about. guest: everybody has something to do. pat making the call in raising this question, it is a wonderful

contribution. you made a difference, you cared, and you are making a difference. school teachers. everybody is that something -- guest: strength to share. guest: a very good, bill. host: congress is coming back into session, and one of the items potentially on the agenda is the nutrition act. guest: it is a very important piece of legislation. it will increase by $4.5 billion the amount of resources available for hungry kids in this country. some of the funds it uses it to increase the child nutrition programs come from future food stamp benefits. there has been a little bit of a divide about that. it would set the bar way above where we are now. i think we are going to see most of congress get behind it.

it passed the senate by voice vote. it was unanimous, passed the senate, and passed the house committee. i think we will see action at this year. host: texas. hi, liz. caller: my comment is i used to work for a school, and what i would see is -- i used to work in the cafeteria. what i would see in serving kids is -- host: keep going. we are listening to you. caller: money became a factor in serving the kids. i would see kids come in there who were hungry and wanting a meal, and i would see at a cafeteria worker snatch the

spoon out of the kid's hand because he did not have money to pay for it. and the cafeteria would put so much food in the garbage disposal of the kids could have beaten -- that the kids cold uld have eaten. that food could have been given to kids and families that were in need. but these cafeteria workers and these people thatre so much for the money would put this food in the garbage, and i cannot believe that. guest: break point. that is one of the things we want to do -- with the cat gre -- great point. that is one of the things we want to do with the campaign, raise attention to the things you are talking about, that there are the ways to -- other

ways to serve food in schools but we plan on making a documentary and showing that there is another way to do it that is more cost-efficient and nutritious. guest: and programs like universal breakfast take away that issue of kids not being able to pay for it. host: we were talking a moment ago about the child nutrition act if the lame-duck congress does not act this year, what prospects you see in a gop- controlled house? guest: one of the reasons that action this year is important is because the political makeup will change and it will be harder to get a bill through like this in the next congress. i think that because of the bipartisan support this bill has that, it will get through this year, but there is urgency to

get it through now. host: louisiana, jim on the republican line. caller: these gentlemen have a good idea, but the problem is tot they are trying solve the solution, and don't look at what causes the problem. what really causes a lot of this problem is they pay these girls, young teenagers, to have babies. that is where the big problem is. they get compensated for having babies. host: any comments? guest: well, not exactly sure -- i am not sure who gets compensated for having babies.

but in any case, the babies themselves should not be the ones to suffer. we need to identify the most vulnerable and voiceless. host: we have a couple of comments on twitter, people writing in about what it was like when they were in a school. how'd you get back to local control? guest: again, but we saw yesterday, providing school districts with the resources that they need so that they see that they can do this -- a lot of the failures are failures of the imagination. they think they need to get it from the central kitchen and it comes at a process way.

to me that is a failure of imagination. guest: another component that came to mind -- developing your palate as a kid. if you get the pizza pockets or whatever they are called in school, that is what appeals to you. but if you get healthy food, you like to eat and thing -- you longed to eat that kind of thing. educating your palate as well as your mind. guest: one of the things we heard yesterday is that a lot of schools don't even have any cooking facility at all. guest: maybe a microwave, a big old microwave. host: this comes to thinking farther afield -- guest: absolutely. guest: there is such a movement to pay more attention to

nutrition and healthy eating. host: alicia on the independent line in maryland. caller: thank you very much. it is confusing, because you are talking and i'm talking at the same time. i am very happy that i have this opportunity. i send my blessings and love to the trou first -- troops first. helping children is dear to my heart. i grew up in poverty. i was a very hungry child. sometimes we would just have tortillas and tea. sometimes if we were lucky we would have tortillas and potatoes. once in while we would slaughter sheep, and that was not too often. in every way i can i would like

to help children, but especially those who are hungry. i constantly think of children who are in tent cities. we do not cover that in our news media. so many people out there who are out of jobs and who have lost their homes have gone out into the country. they are living in tents. i'm just thinking how hard it must be for them this winter. host: there certainly must be the hidden phenomenon -- we heard recently the nuers on poverty in america. it was surprising to a lot of media outlets and pundits about how many americans are below the poverty line. do you feel that this then, not as well documented, and that

people are well aware -- of it -- that this phenomenon is well documented and that people are well aware of it? guest: it is well-documented but i don't think a lot of people are aware of it. the greatest increase at a party, 2000 to 2009, ever -- greatest increase in poverty, 2000 and 2009, ever. host: bob in ohio. caller: good morning to i want to complement these tenement to >> do wh -- good morning. i want to complement these gentlemen for what they doing. i think you guys ought to start a third party, feed the kids party, because you guys look presidential. i was pretty hungry when i was a kid. when you are at school and your stomach is grumbling, it is hard to concentrate on what the

teacher says. guest: it is as much an educational problem as it is a nutritional problem. heler: if a kid knows is going to get fed, he will not skip school. you guys are doing really good work. guest: thank you, man. guest: when alicia professor comments by saying plus the troops, -- prefaced her comments by saying god bless the much in this is as national security issue as it is a property issue -- poverty issue. host: what will you be talking about at the national press club? guest: a lot of what we're

talking about today, and encouraging people to go to nokidhungry.org. host: scott, republican. caller: thank you. there are so many things i would like to say. i'm fed up with a lot of what is happening, not just in this country, but the world. i am not sure why in most cases we let the most vulnerable people in the world go hungry, with the some of the things we do with money around the world, and i mean throwing it around. we could be spending differently and smarter. we are talking about children. imagine for a moment if somebody came from another planet and salt was going on. it is humiliating to be a human being and having children in our own country starving, as the gentleman said before, having

their stomach rumbling at school. someone said something about pulling up but stocks and --up bootstraps and parents doing more to it that is a good point. parents should do more in america. guest: no, that is a very good point. there was something else you were saying. i did not want to interrupt you. oh, you made the comment about what we're doing to our kids and having this indifference, whether it is parental -- if another country was doing to our kids what we're doing to our own kids, we would be at war. host: 3 think americans look

overseas to solve problems -- home -- you think americans look overseas to solve problems and not at home? guest: we are starting to bid for all while we had to convince people that there was a real hunger issue. people are reading about numbers on food stamps. guest: there is not much difference between domestic concerns and international. they are interwoven. the meal program for schools was started to make our troops strong. now it is not only our troops, but the work force. we don't have enough nutrition to make the brain cells receive the education they are going to get, and we're not going to able to compete with the rest of the world. host: jeff bridges, actor,

spokesman for no kid hungry campaign, thank you for being with us. bill shore of share our strength. jeff will be at the national press club. that is all for "washington journal" this morning. we will be back tomorrow at 7:00 eastern. right now we go to common cause. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> they were free to spend without limits and accept unlimited donations from wealthy individuals, corporations, trade individuals, corporations, trade