something deeper, something more permanent, something larger than the sum of all its parts. it is that something which matters most to its future, which calls forth the most sacred guarding of its present. it is a thing for which we find difficult, even impossible to hit upon a single simple word and yet we all understand what it is. the spirit, the faith of america. it is the product of centuries, it was born in the multitudes of those who came from many lands, some of high degree, but mostly plain people who sought here early and late to find freedom more freely. the democratic aspiration is no mere recent phase of human history. it is human history. it is -- it permeated the ancient life of early peoples. it blazed anew in the middle ages, it was written in the magna carta. in the americas its impact has

been irresistible. america has been the new world in all tongues to all peoples, not because this content was a newfound land but because all those who came here believe they had could create upon this continent a new life, a life that should be new in freedom. its vitality was written into the mayflower compact, into the declaration of independence, into intee the gettysburg address. if the spirit of america were killed even though the nation's body and mind, constricted in an alien world lived on, the america we know would have perished. that spirit, that faith, speaks to us in our daily lives in ways often unnoticed. we do not retreat, we are not content to standstill. as americans, we go forward in

the service of our country by the will of god. franklin roosevelt. 1941, to the armed forces, as commander in chief, i take pleasure in commending the reading of the bible to all who serve in the armed forces of the united states. throughout the centuries men of many faiths and diverse origins have found in the ache red book -- the sacred book is capitalized -- words of wisdom, counsel, and inspiration. it is a fountain of strength and now as always an aid in attaining the highest aspirations of the human soul. very sincerely yours, franklin d. roosevelt.

that's inscribed on the inside of the new testament that my uncle got going into world war ii that my aunt gave me. december 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy, the united states of america was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the empire of japan. our people, our territory, and our interests are in grave danger. with confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph so help us god. one other from roosevelt, this was franklin roosevelt's radio broadcast, june 6, 1944. my fellow americans -- and for

those who may not be aware, this is d-day. june 6, 1944. frankly d. roosevelt said, last night when i spoke to you about the fall of rome i knew at that moment that troops of the united states and our allies were crossing the channel in another and greater operation. it has come to pass with success thus far and so in this poignant hour i ask you to join with me in prayer. then franklin roosevelt prayed these words, for the nation, over national radio, would have been tv, but radio is what he had. roosevelt said, almighty god, our sons, pride of our nation this day have set upon a mighty endeavor a struggle to preserb our republic, our religion, and our civilization and to set free a suffering humanity. lead them straight and true,

give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith. they will need thy blessings. their road will be long and hard for the enemy is strong. he may hurl back our forces, success may not come with rushing speed, we shall return again and again. we know that by thy dwrace and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph. parenthetically, if i might insert into roosevelt's prayer here, general jerry boykin had an outcry in this country from the left when he said words to the effect, at a church, we prevailed in iraq with such speed because our god was stronger than their god. had shows same people and forces that attacked general

boykin at the time been around june 6, 1944, d-day, they would have had to attack franklin d. roosevelt for this type of prayer. nonetheless, it's part of our history so i'll continue with roosevelt's words. these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. they fight not for the lust of conquest they fight to liberate they fight to let justice arise and tolerance and good will among all people. they yearn but for the end of battle for their return to the haven of home. some will never return. embrace these, father, and are receive them, thy humble servants, into thy kingdom. for those of us at home, mothers, fathers, sisters, wives help us rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in

thee in this hour of great sacrifice. many people have urged i call the nation into a single day of special prayer but because the road is long and the desire is great, i ask that our people devote themselves in a continuance of prayer as we rise to each new day and again when each day is spent. let words of prayer be on our lips invoking thy help to our efforts. roos velt goes on, give us strength, too, strength in our daily task to redouble the contributions we make in the physical and the material support of our armed forces. let our hearts be stout to wait out the long travail to bear sorrows that may come to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be and lord, give us faith, faith in thee, faith in our sons, faith

in each other, faith in our united crusade. let not the keenness of our spirit ever be dulled. let not the impacts of temporary events and temporal matters of but fleeting moment, let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose. with thy blessing, roosevelt finishes, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogances, lead us to the saving of our country and with our sister nation into a world unity that will spell a sure peace. a peace invulnerable to the screamings of unworthy men and that let honest men reap the just rewards of their honest toil. thy will be done, almighty god. that was franklin d. roosevelt. what a powerful prayer. a couple of things to finish. ronald reagan.

1978. his own words in his own hand. he was talking about jesus of nazareth, jesus christ, and he says these things about jesus. either he was what he said he was or he was the world's greatest liar. it is impossible for me to believe a liar or charlatan could have had the effect on mankind he has had for 2,000 years. we could ask, would even the greatest of liars carry his lie through the crucifixion when a simple confession would have saved him? did he allow us the choice you say that you and others have made to believe in his teaching but reject his statements about his own identity? in 1981, in his inaugural, he said in part, ronald reagan's words, your dreams, your hopes, your goals are going to be the dreams, hopes and goals of this

administration so help me god. i'm told that tens of thousands of prayer meetings are being hold on this day and for that i'm deeply grateful. we are a nation under god and i believe god intended for us to be free. it would be fitting i think if on each inaugural day in future years it should be declared a day of prayer. the crisis we are facing today requires us to declare that together with god's help we can and will resolve the problems which now confront us. after all, why shouldn't we believe that. we are americans. reagan concluded with god bless you. that is my conclusion very well. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back.

for what purpose does the gentleman from texas seek recognition? mr. gohmert spst at this time i move that we do now hereby adjourn. the speaker pro tempore: the question son the motion to adjourn. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. the ayes have it. the motion is agreed to. >> a house ethics subcommittee found charlie rangel guilty of

11 counts. we will get an update next on c- span. for the first time since the vietnam war, america's highest built -- military honor has been awarded to a living service manager -- member. later, secretary gates talks about the challenges facing the pentagon. >> see what people are watching on the c-span video library. with the most recent videos, the most watched a video, and most share. you can click on the of lection analysis tab did you our continuing coverage of the midterm elections. watch what you want when you want. >> congressman charlie rangel was found guilty of 11 counts by an adjudicatory subcommittee. the full house ethics committee

will hold a full hearing on thursday to determine the appropriate punishment for each violation, which could include a reprimand or a fine. they will then be sent to the house floor for a vote. >> we have met for a number of hours to consider the 13 alleged violations. [inaudible] on count one, [inaudible] one count two, it has been

approved by the evidence. count three, the committee was unable to reach a conclusion. count four, [inaudible] the interpreter of the statutes was brought before the executive and judicial branches. count six, contact in violation

of the house office building, we found a violation by clear and convincing evidence. count seven, conduct of violation of the members handbook, we found a violation by clear and convincing evidence. count eight, conduct of violation of the letterhead role, the committee found that was proven by clear and convincing evidence. count nine, contact in violation of the ethics in government act and house rule 26, the financial disclosure provisions, we found a violation by clear and convincing evidence. captan, contact in violation of code of ethics for the service, the committee found conviction by a clear and convincing evidence. count 11, conduct in violation of the code of ethics for government service laws to, we found a conviction by clear and convincing evidence.

count 13, contact in violation of the code of conduct reflecting discredit a play upon the house, we found the majority that to be proven by clear and convincing evidence on a vote 7-1. i would note that that does conclude the deliberations of the administrative subcommittee. i would note that our deliberations are covered by rules seven of the committee on standards and official conduct prohibits discussion of our deliberations publicly and requires us to keep the confidentiality of our session. i would ask members of the public to respect our obligations to the rules. before asking the ranking member if he would like to make a brief

comment, i would just like to conclude by saying none of the members of this committee are volunteers. this is been a difficult assignment, time-consuming, and we have approached our duty diligently. that includes every member of the subcommittee. we have tried to act with fairness, led only by the facts and the law, and i believe that we have accomplished that mission. i give thanks to each of the members who have worked so hard to do the right thing, as well as the staff who have worked extraordinarily hard and many hours to present this case to us. with that, i like to turn to the ranking member, mr. mccaul, for any brief comments he may have. >> thank you, madam chair.

i wanted to say that as you mentioned, no one asked for this assignment. sitting in judgment of a fellow member and colleague is very difficult, but i believe that all the members of the subcommittee handled yourself in a very non-partisan, professional manner, and dignified manner, which i hope will restore credibility to the house of representatives. as you mentioned, madam chair, we were able to reach consensus on 12 of the 13 counts. with count 3 being the split vote for-4. when we look at camp 13, it talks about reflecting credibility on the house. discussing this honor, and i am hopeful as we move forward into the next phase, at the end of the day, we will be able to begin an era of transparency and

accountability, a new era of ethics that will restore the credibility of this house, the people's house. with that, i yield back. >> thank you. the gentleman yield back. i would note technically it was a 11th of 13 because we rolled 5-4. i would like to note the next procedures. we will be meeting briefly to approve the brief report that goes to the full committee. after we recessed from the session, i will be contacting the ranking member of the full committee to schedule the sanction hearing that is the next that in this process under our rules. and we will certainly give notice of that. >> one clarification. we did reach consensus. >> we did achieve consensus, you are correct. with that, we will recess to the

closed session this afternoon to briefly go through the language, and thanks to all of you.

[inaudible] >> the last count was not a full consensus? >> that was seven-one, correct. >> how people voted, is that

public on the seven-one? >> in no. >> following the subcommittee announcement of the charges, congressman rangel issued a statement saying it was an unfair decision and he was disappointed by the unfortunate findings of the ethics subcommittee. you can read his full statement on line at c-span.org. the full ethics committee will reach -- meet on 34 stations committee to decide a punishment for each of congressman rangel's violations. president obama presented staff sergeant salvatore content with the medal of honor -- guinta

with the medal of honor at a white house ceremony. ♪ >> ladies and gentleman, the president of the united states, and ms. michele obama, accompanied by medal of honor recipient, staff sgt salvatore guinta. ["hail to the chief" playing]

>> let us pray. almighty and merciful god in whom we play our trust, we honor the extraordinary actions above and beyond the call of duty apprenticed. by the staff sergeant, an american soldier, patriot, and he wrote. our hearts forever resonate with the theme of heroes proved in liberating stride, more themselves and their country love and mercy more than light. make our remembrances of his actions in afghanistan inspire all americans with great pride and humility that we have selfless lawyers like him living among us today as we hear the account of his actions, may we also remember that all of our armed forces, and those this are in harm's way across the world

today. for his courageous actions against the enemy and to rescue a fallen comrade, may we recommit ourselves to selfless service for our families and our fellow citizens. call upon a reflection of the whole union forged among soldiers to respire -- to inspire new unity in our own land especially during times of conflict. as we celebrate this special day with his family may we remember in prayer all the families who await the safe return home of their loved ones. as we pause to remember the many freedoms we enjoy as a nation, may we never give more things than we do right now to those who paid the glorious liberty to which we enjoyed for their blood, sweat, and tears. this we pray in your holy name, amen. >> good afternoon, everybody.

please be seated. on behalf of michelle and myself, welcome to the white house. thank you, chaplain carver, for that beautiful invocation. of all the privileges that come with serving as president of the united states, i have none greater than serving as commander in chief of the find as military -- the finest military that the world is ever known. and of all the military decorations that a president and a nation can bestow, there is none higher than the medal of honor. today is particularly special. since the end of the vietnam war, the medal of honor has been awarded nine times for conspicuous gallantry in an ongoing or recent conflict. sadly our nation has been unable to present this decoration to the recipients themselves,

because each gave his life -- his last full measure of devotion -- for our country. indeed as president, i have presented the medal of honor three times, and each time to the families of a fallen hero. today, therefore, marks the first time in nearly 40 years that the recipient of the medal of honor for an ongoing conflict has been able to come to the white house and accept this recognition in person. it is my privilege to present our nation's highest military decoration, the medal of honor, to a soldier as humble as he is heroic -- staff sergeant salvatore guinta. i'm going to go off script here for a second and just say i really like this guy. [laughter]

[applause] i think anybody -- we all just get a sense of people and who they are, and when you meet sal and you meet his family, you are absolutely convinced that this is what america is all about. and it just makes you proud. and so this is a joyous occasion, something that i have been looking forward to. the medal of honor reflects the gratitude of an entire nation. so we're also joined here today by several members of congress, including both senators and several representatives from sap project staff sergeant -- staff

sergeant guinta's on said of viola. we're joined by the secretary of defense, robert gates, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, admiral mike mullen. where is mike? there he is, right there. army secretary johnchugh, and chief of staff of the army, general george casey. we are especially honored to be joined by staff sergeant guinta's phyllis soldiers, his teammates and brothers from battle company, seconds of the 503rd of the 173rd airborne brigade, and members of that rarest of fraternities that now welcomes him into its ranks -- the medal of honor society. please give them a big round of applause.

we also welcome the friends and family who made staff sergeant guinta into the man that he is, including his lovely wife, jenny, and his parents, steven and rosemary, as well as his siblings who are here. it was his mother, after all, who apparently taught him as a young boy in small-town iowa how to remove the screen from his bedroom window in case of fire. [laughter] what she did not know was that by teaching sal how to jump from his bedroom and sneaking off in the dead of night, she was unleashing a future paratrooper who would one day fight in the rugged mountains of afghanistan 7,000 miles away. during the first of his two tours of duty in afghanistan, staff sgt guinta was forced early on to come to terms with a

loss of comrades and friends. his team leader at the time gave him a piece of advice -- you just try, you just got to try to do everything you can when it is your time to do it. you have just got to try to do everything you can when it is your time to do it. salvatore guinta's time came on october 20 -- october 25, 2007. he was a specialist then, just 22 years old. sal and his platoon were several days into a mission in the korengal valley, the most dangerous valley in northeast afghanistan. the moon was full. the light it cast was enough to travel by without using their night-vision goggles. with heavy gear on their backs, and air support overhead, they made their way single file down a rocky ridge crest, along terrain so steep that sliding

was sometimes easier than walking. they had not traveled a quarter mile before the silence was shattered. it was an ambush so close that the cracks of the gun and the wishes of the bullets were simultaneous -- whiz of the bullets were simultaneous. tracer fire hammered the ridge at hundreds of rounds per minute, more, sal said later, than the stars in the sky. the apache gunships above saw it all, but could not engage with the enemy so close to our soldiers. the next platoon heard the shooting, but were too far away to join the fight in time. and the two lead men were hit by enemy fire and knocked down instantly. when the third was struck in the helmet and fell to the ground, sal charged headlong into the wall of bullets to pull him to safety behind what little cover there was. as he did, sal was hit twice --

one round slamming into his body armor, the other shattering a weapon slung across his back. the were pinned down, and two wounded americans still lay up ahead. so sal and his comrades regrouped and counterattacked. they threw grenades, using the explosions as cover to run forward, shooting at the muzzle flashes still erupting from the trees. then they did it again and again, charging ahead. finally they reached one of their men. he had been shot twice in the leg, but he had kept returning fire until his gun jammed. as another soldier tended to his wounds, sal sprinted ahead, at every step meeting relentless enemy fire with his own. he crested a hill alone with no cover but the dust kicked up by the storm of bullets still biting into the ground. there he saw a chilling sight -- the silhouettes of two insurgents carrying the other

wounded american away, who happened to be one of sal's best friends. sal never broke stride. he leapt forward. he took aim. he killed one of the insurgents and wounded the other, who ran off. sal found his friend alive but badly wounded. sal had saved him from the enemy, and now he had to try to save his life. even as bullets impacted all around him, sal grabbed his friend by the vest and dragged him to cover. for nearly half an hour, sal worked to stop the bleeding and help his friend breathe until the medevac arrive to with the wounded from the ridge. american gunships worked to clear the enemy is from the hills. and with the battle over, first platoon picked up their gear and resumed their march through the valley. they continued their mission. it had been as intense and violent a firefight as y soldier will experience.

by the time it was finished, every member of first platoon had shrapnel or a bullet hole in their gear. 54 wounded. to give their lives. sau's friend, sergeant joshua brennan, and the platoon medic, specialist hugo mendoza. the parents of joshua and hugo are here today. i know that there are no words that even three years later can ease the ache in your hearts or repay the debt that america owes to you. but on a pot -- on behalf of a grateful nation, let me express profound thanks to your sons service and their sacrifice. and could the parents of joshua and hugo please stand briefly? [applause]

i already mentioned that i like this guy, sal. and as i found out when i first vote with him on the phone and when we met in the oval office today, he is low-key, a humble, and he does not seek the limelight. he will tell you that he did not do anything special, that he was this -- he was just doing his job, that any of his brothers in the unit would do the same thing. in fact, he just lived up to what his team leader instructed him to do years before -- you do everything you can. staff sergeant guinta

repeatedly and without hesitation, you charged forward through extreme enemy fire, embodying the warrior ethos that says, i will never leave a fallen comrade. your actions disrupted a devastating ambush before it could claim more lives. your courage prevented the capture of an american soldier and brought that soldier back to his family. you may believe that you do not deserve this honor, but it was your fellow soldiers recommended you for it. and that your commander specifically said in his recommendation that you lived up to the standards of the most decorated american soldier of world war ii, audie murphy, who famously repelled an overwhelming enemy attack by himself for one simple reason -- they were killing my friends. that is why salvatore guinta risked his life for his fellow soldiers, because they would

risk their lives for him. that is what fueled his bravery -- not just the urgent impulse to have their backs, but the absolute confidence that they had his. one of them, sal has said -- of these young men that he was with, he said -- they are just of much of me as i am. they are just as much of me as i am. so i would ask sal's team, all of the battle company with him that day, to please stand and be recognized as well. [applause]

gentleman, and thank you for your service. we are all in your debt. and i'm proud to be your commander-in-chief. these are the soldiers of our armed forces. highly trained, battle hardened, each with specialized roles and responsibilities, but all with one thing in common -- they volunteered. in an era where it has never been more tempting to chase personal ambition or narrow self-interest, they chose the opposite. they felt a tug. they answered a call. they said, i will go. and for the better part of a decade, they have endured tour after tour in distant and

difficult places. they have protected us from danger. they have given others the opportunity to earn a better and more secure life. they are the courageous men and women serving in afghanistan even as we speak. they keep clear focus on their mission -- to deny safe haven for terrorists who would attack our country, to break the back of the taliban insurgency, to build the afghans capacity to defend themselves. they possess the steely resolve to see their mission through. they are made of the same strong stuff as the troops in this room, and i am absolutely confident that they will continue to succeed in the missions that we give them, in afghanistan and beyond. after all, our brave servicemen and women and their families have done everything they had been asked to do. they have been everything that we have asked them to be. if i am a hero, sal has said,

then every man who stands around me, every woman in the military, every person who defends this country is. and he is right. this medal today is a testament to his uncommon valor, but also to the parents and the community that raised him, the military that trained him, and all the men and women who served by his side. all of them deserve our enduring thanks and gratitude. they represent a small fraction of the american population, but they and the families who await their safe return carry far more than their fair share of our burden. they fight halfway around the globe, but they do it in hopes that our children and our grandchildren will not have to. they are the very best part of us. they are our friends, our

family, our neighbors, our classmates, our coworkers. they are why our banner still waves, our founding principles still shine, and our country -- the united states of america -- still stands as a force for good all over the world. so please join me in welcoming staff sergeant salvatore guinta for the reading of the citation. >> the president of the united states of america, authorized by act of congress, march 3, 1863, has awarded, in the name of congress, the medal of honor to then specialist salvatore a. giunta, united states army. specialist salvatore a. giunta distinguished himself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity, at the risk of his

life, above and beyond the call of duty, in action, with an armed enemy in the korengal valley, afghanistan, on october 25, 2007. while conducting a patrol as team leader, with company b, second battalion airborne, 503rd infantry regiment, specialist giunta and his team were navigating through harsh terrain when they were ambushed by a well-armed and well- coordinated insurgent force. while under heavy enemy fire, specialistiunta immediately sprinted towards cover and engaged the enemy. seeing that his squad leader had fallen, and believing that he had been injured, specialist giunta exposed himself to withering enemy fire and raced towards his squad leader, helped him to cover and administered medical aid. while administering first aid, enemy fire struck special giunta's body armor and his secondary weapon. without regard to the ongoing fire, specialist giunta engaged the enemy before prepping and throwing grenades, using the explosions for cover in order

to conceal his position. attempting to reach additional wounded fellow soldiers who were separated from the squad, specialist giunta and his team encountered a barrage of enemy fire that forced them to the ground. the team continued forward, and upon reaching the woued soldiers, specialist giunta realized that another soldier was still separated from the element. specialist giunta then advanced forward on his own initiative. as he crested the top of a hill, he observed two insurgents carrying away an american soldier. he immediately engaged the enemy, killing one and wounding the other. upon reaching the wounded soldier, he began to provide medical aid, as his squad caught up and provided security. specialist giunta's unwavering courage, selflessness and decisive leadership while under extreme enemy fire were integral to his platoon's ability to defeat an enemy ambush and recover a fellow american soldier from the enemy. specialist salvatore a. giunta's extraordinary heroism

and selflessness above and beyond the call of duty are in keeping with the highest traditions of military service and reflect great credit upon himself, company b, second battalion airborne, 503rd infantry regiment and the united states army. [applause]

>> let us pray. great and loving god, as we conclude this ceremony, keep us mindful of the call to the voter sell to the others. may sergeant guinta's courageous actions challenge us to do the same for our fellow citizens for generations to come. please give south and jenny

great wisdom and strengthen their roles that lie before them, may meet the mall with dignity, courage, and humility. may your divine favor an wisdom rest on our president and on national leaders as they serve to -- as they strive to serve our great country. not bless our armed services, and about was the united states of america. we pray in your holy name, amen. >> thank you so much, everybody. let's give sal one last big round of applause.

♪ ["america the beautiful" playing] ♪

♪ [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] ♪ ♪

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♪ >> thank you for coming out today. this is truly an incredible and parents. although i am the one standing here wearing the medal, i want to make it be known that this represents all service members in all branches in afghanistan since 2000 to, and i appreciate them because without their service, i have nothing. it means the world to me to have the great men and women of the united states military behind me, supporting me, leading me

forward. i like to thank my mom, my dad, my brother, my sister, and my beautiful wife jenny. this is an incredible time, but is also a bittersweet time. times like this, because of the state, i lost two dear friends of mine. and although this is so positive, i would give this back in a second to have my friends with me right now. theyhere're so many others will never come back or give a hug or see their family again, and that is the quality of american soldiers that we have, fighting in doing what is necessary until the battle is done. thank you for coming again and take care.

>> defense secretary gates talked today about the challenges facing the pentagon. that is next on c-span. then we will hear from treasury secretary timothy geithner. and then the head of the transportation safety administration was questioned about his new security procedures. on tomorrow morning's "washington journal," oklahoma senator tom coburn will talk about the deficit commission recommendations and congressional earmarks. after that, pearl boom and our andealr -- earl blumenauer.

"washington journal" each morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. >> like all men of great gift, when they give up power, even though they'd give up good reasons, the anger for in the moments that they give it up. >> in an award winning trilogy on theodore roosevelt, the final years of his live in quoting his bold run for president. >> defense secretary robert gates talks about the threat of cyber attacks against the u.s.. secretary gates was also critical of proposed military cuts outlined by the deficit- reduction commission. we will also hear from treasury secretary timothy geithner. the wall street journal ceo

council has to this event. >> for those of you who do not realize it, bob gates' career started in 1976 when he was a young intelligence officer. now he works for 30 years in the white house and the pan again for six different products -- six different -- the pentagon for six different presidents. there must be in a war for that. -- an award for that. he will be leaving the government next year but you should note that you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave. [laughter] i thought that what bob and i would do is talk about the security situation around the world for a few minutes and then talk about the management challenges at the pentagon, which must be at least as frightening as the securities their tuition around the world. let's start with the most obvious and the pressing, afghanistan.

president karzai over the weekend said some startling statements, the need for the u.s. to rent back military operations, to stop special operations in the south, which have been very effective. and general petreaus among others -- we question what the relationship is with president karzai is right now. >> president karzai is our partner. he will meet the president in afghanistan until the second term as out. 2014, i think. we will continue to partner with him through this conflict. i think that president karzai is reflecting the impatience of a country that has been at war for 30 years. being in this war for 10 years,

and was at war for 20 years before that. i think what president karzai was articulating was the desire to see afghanistan get to the point where is he referred to in his interview, the way that it was in the 1950's and 1960's when the primary american presence was a development presence. we were building roads, we were putting in irrigation systems, and so on. we share that desire. the problem is, we cannot get from here to there tomorrow. i think if you will see nato next week or this coming weekend tackle the issue of transitions, probably embrace president karzai's un stated goal of having a security transition and responsibility for security complete by 2014.

i think he was -- my own view he was expressing the frustrations of the leader of the country whose people have been at war for so long. i think the reality is, he understands what we have to do to get afghanistan to the point. the reality is, the afghans are playing a significant role already. there has been dramatic improvement both in the numbers and in the quality of the afghan security forces over the last year. 60%-75% of the forces and a can of our operations are afghan, and that as an afghan lead operation. the counterterrorism operations are led by afghans. we will continue to work with them as a good partner. >> is there a cap emerging

between the approach the u.s. wants to take over the next eight to nine months and what president karzai's political needs seem to dictate? >> i think that we will be ok. .

>> are you going to continue to have the freedom to go back and forth across the border. ? >> we don't have combat boots on the ground in pakistan. what we're seeing the pakistani army taking action against some of theseafe havens, disrupting them, and -- as i suggested, increasingly coordinating with us in -- not in cross border but on either side of the border, operations against these groups. i think that -- i think that the pakistanis taking it on is clearly preferable. >> are they doing that in as aggressive a way as you week like? >> as we said all along, they got to where they, they need to be. it is -- we're pretty impatient people. we want everything done yesterday. again, they're doing things that frank le we would have been

skeptical they would do even a year, year and a half ago. >> what is your view of the wilings willingness of the government to go further. pakistan is happy to go after them when they threaten pakistan less happy when they threaten afghanistan. is that phase over? do they understand both versions of the taliban pose threats they ought to deal with? >> the highest priority is to go after those that try to overthrow them when is the pakistani taliban. but they're increasingly, i think, moving -- and working with us against other groups. >> the other source of of terror threat is from yemen. they turn out to be something other than ups packages. how serious is the terror threat

in yemen? what kind of tools do we have in the u.s. government to deal with the terror threat from yemen? >> the truth is what we have seen as we brought pressure on al qaeda and north waziristan, the terrorist movement has mes that sized in many ways. so we see them in somalia and yemen and north africa. our biggest tools can respect to yemen are the partnership capacity of the yemen ease themselves and enabling them to go after these guys. we don't need another war and the yemenees have shown a willingness to go after -- after -- what we call aqap, al qaeda in the arabian peninsula.

they're working with us and the saudis and others. one of the themes over the past couple of years for us has been building partnership capacity, which is giving them the equipment and training so they could do the job themselves. this is a theme behind a lot of efforts in africa as well as in the middle east. that's our -- that's our best tool in yemen. >> in yemen, is there a g. that you could actually work with -- a government you could work with, unlike somalia? >> yes. >> do they the attitude to dealing with the aqab problem? >> this the case of a lot of cases, the president of yemen has a tribal and management -- management challenge that he has to deal with. i would say in terms of going after the paris, they have it. >> let me ask about iran.

it seems likely there will be renewed conversations with the evan government in coming weeks. anything you see that that suggests that the path toward nuclear weapons capability is anything but straight and narrow for the iranian government. >> i personally believe they're still intent on acquiring nuclear weapons but also the information that we have is that -- that they have been surprised by the impact of the sanctions. this latest round, not just the -- the -- the last u.n. security council resolution but the actions taken by individual countries, using the u.n. security council resolution as a platform or as a foundation. those measures have bitten much harder -- harder than they anticipated. we have evidence that come mainy is wondering if ahmadinejad is

lying to him about the impact of the sanctions on the economy and whether he's getting the straight scoop in terms of how much trouble the economy is really in. i think that -- the sanctions are having an impact. whether -- look, the only long-term solution in avoiding an iranian nuclear weapons capability is for the iranians to decide if not in -- it is not in their interests. everything else is a short-term solution, is a two to three-year solution. if it is a military solution as far as i'm concerned, it will only make them -- it'll bring together a divided nation. it'll make them committed to obtaining nuclear weapons. they will go deeper and more covert. so i think that the political economic strategy is the one

that we have to continue to pursue and ratchet it up. and create -- create a -- an exit -- an exit for them. if you agree to do these things that give us confidence that you're not building nuke here weapons, then there's a way out of the box you have gotten yourself in to. >> you're saying the imperative is to find a nonmilitary solution. >> i think that's the only long-term solution. >> let me talk to you about a subject that occupied conversation this evening and china. it is chinese has become more aggressive. at the same time you have attempted to renew a dialogue with the chinese government, which i assume is a positive sign. what is the sense you have that role china wants to play and the extent to which that may or may not bring it in conflict with the u.s.?

>> you give me too much credit. from the first meeting, president ooh and obama have talked about the military to military relationships a being underdeveloped of the overall chinese relationship. i think that -- i think president hu has reemphasized that. i that's the reason that -- of course he's -- he's coming here next year. i will be going to china. and i'm confident that the reason i got an invitation to go to china early next we're is because president hu thinks this is an important part in the relationship i happen to think it is a very important part of the relationship myself. i'm hopeful in addition to exercises and joint efforts in humanitarian assistance and disaster relief and a variety of other things like that, that we could broughten this

relationship to -- broaden this relationship to a strategic dialogue so we get a better understanding of each other's strategic intentions, the way we see the world and so on. i got involved in the strategic arms talks with the soviets 40 years ago. i'm not sure when most of those negotiations ever much led to disarmament but the william thing i'm confidence of -- confident of is over the period of decades, we came to a very clear understanding of -- with the soviets of how each of us thought about things. i think that dialogue helped pre vent many mystical clages and mistakes. i like to have the same dialogue with the cline niece. >> let me turn -- turn to your very big organization. you got management and budget challenges that are significant. you essentially told the defense

department, the budget greavey train is probably coming to an end sonner than later. get ready for it. you basically said, we have to find $100 billion if savings over the next 10 years or so, if -- the next five years, if we're going to keep the forced structure that we have in place. you also tell the shareholders that you're -- they have to learn to live with that as well. how are those messages going down? >> i think that within the building i have gotten an incredible cooperation -- this has been done in partnership with the military and i think -- the challenge we face is that -- that the growth rate that we are likely to encounter over the next four or five years, or the absence of a growth rate forces up to look inside because beneed to maintain about % real growth

in terms -- in the capabilities part of the department of defense in order to sustain the forced structure that we have today. i believe as i look around the world, given the first 15 minutes of this conversation and the other promise we didn't talk about north korea or other challenges, i believe the challenges the u.s. is likely to face and the unfortunate reality that most allies are reducing their militaries that the burden on us and the security chalrention going to remain unchanged -- security challenges will remain unchanged and increase in the future. there was the need to sustain forced structure. that means taking $100 million out of overhead and invest it in the tooth, as you say. one thing we gotten the cooperation of the services is basically telling them, instead of the usual budget cut routine

that it is a zero 0 sum game, i basically -- i basically assured them all that they can find if the overhead, they could reinvest. sao what the navy finds in overhead, they can apply to ship building or drones or whatever. same way with the other services. in addition to that, i hope to find somewhere between $15 and $20 billion in savings outside the military services. that i can then reinvest in the services. i'm asking what are your priorities? where are you going to invest this money and what are your priorities if i find more money that i can give to you? i think that -- that incentives the services it really look very hard at the way they do business. this is not a matter of doing

the same things we're doing with 10% less money. it is figure out new ways to do business. >> your political problem is the chairman of the deficit commission, have essentially said that's great, we'll take your $100 billion and raise you. what is your message back to the deficit commission? >> i'm -- i met with -- i met with -- with allen and withers stin bowles two or three weeks ago. i described the security situation that we have. i'm sympathetic with the challenges that -- that we faced in terms of the deficit. the truth of the matter is with, when it comes to the deficit, the department of defense is not the problem. if you cut the budget by 10% which would be catastrophic in terms of forced structure, that's $55 billion. on a $1.4 trillion deficit.

we're not the problem. i think in terms of the specifics that came up with -- that is essentially math, not strategy. what we're trying to do in the department of defense is figure out how do you -- how do you kill programs that aren't with working or are way overrun, are way overdue. how do we develop the broadest range of capabilities for the wide e-range of accept narrows and sustain the strength this country needs. that means going in with a scapal and a -- instead of a meat ax and figure out how to change doing business. frankly, the idea that defense would take half of the cut in discretionary spending, particularly in terms of what we're trying to do in terms of security is a problem for me. >> let me stop there, allen and see if there are questions from

the audience about either the security or the management. >> tom from reuters. let me shift the attention from the geographic hotspots to cyber. i know you recently created a cyber command. how -- howe do you vute the threat assessment and what we -- how do you view the threat assessment and ho do you we do we help the homeland from cyber attack? >> i think there's a huge future threat and considerable current threat. that's just the reality that we all face. i think the challenge -- we have taken steps where we have -- we have arrived at pretty good protections for -- for dot mill. we are working with -- with our

partners in the defense industrial base. to bring them under that umbrella has, to provide them with protection. just -- just a few weeks ago, the president approved a memorandum of understanding that secretary napolitano and i worked out, the key is that the only defense the united states has, i think, defense nation states and other potential threats in the cyber world is the national security agency. you can't replicate the national security agency for domestic affairs. there isn't enough money or time or human talent. so, how do you let the domestic side of the government have access to the -- to the asset that n.s.a. represents while at the same time taking into account the concerns for privacy and civil liberties. what our memorandum of understanding does is create a department of homeland security

cell in -- in n.s.a. that has the authority to task n.s.a. but to do so with that you are own lawyers present and so on in terms of -- of way that is will protect privacy and civil liberties, so you have the domestic security agency, the d.h.s. being able to roach into n.s.a. in a real-time way to get the kind of protection that is we need. by hope is that over time, that this will ahead to a better protections for both.gov and dot-com. >> my promise to secretary gates is he would get out of here at 9:00. thanks for coming by. one more quick question. right there. >> secretary, you talked about the necessity -- ness toy eliminate programs that are overdue or wasteful. i think you and i share the same fashion for example on what a program is an ultimate engine or

extra engine for the fighter. our company builds blackhawk helicopter which is a single engine, which is t 700s. i think there's an erroneous perception that everybody one needs a backup engine. why can't we eliminate some of this wasteful spending? >> well, that's a little loaded. i would put it this way. and it goes to -- it goes to a question that jerry asked that i didn't answer, how about my overseers on the hill? the truth of the matter is the congress has been remarkably supportive of what i have tried to do. i went to the hill with -- with 33 program i think decisions last year and the hill supported me on 31 of them.

the 32nd was stopping protection of the c-17. i think that will happen in this year's bill, and so the one remaining issue is the alternate engine. well, one of the things in our acquisition reform is -- is to rely more on competition. but real competition. too often competition in washington is everybody wins. that's not my idea of competition. my idea of competition in the acquisition arena is winner takes all. so, i want to structure these things in a way where we do have competition. i think we have competition for the -- for the next generation tanker, another sore subject. but i think the more we could do

this and the more we can -- we can cause industry particularly on relatively low -- low technology risk programs to share the risk with the government, in terms of timeliness and cos, the better off the taxpayer is going to be and at the end of the day, theport off business will be. >> thanks. i forgot to mention the most important part of his background, he had the great good sense to be born in kansas. i think the -- the -- his stock rises to the top. thanks for coming by. i appreciate it. [applause] >> could & voting thing? >> i like the golden share is what i really like. thanks. good morning, everybody. thank you so much indeed,

secretary geithner. cullen, your colleague was here last night, he said that what would be looked at is how the u.s. handled the emergeance of this extraordinary new power. you spent time dealing with that issue. you spent a lot of time dealing with the currency issue. china as we know has been reluctant to review its currency. you came back from important meetings in asia. can you talk about what the federal reserve is doing and policies, can you tell whause we could expect in terms of what china is going to do? >> china is letting their currency rise. it is rising. it is moving gradually. they're adverse to a precipitous large move. which i understand.

but -- they're letti it rise because fundamentally, if they don't let it rise then all of that pressure that is the reflection of the fact that china is growing rapidly, that pressure is going to end up in inflation or in bubbles, things that could threaten the capacity to grow in the future. for that reason it is important to them and in their interest for it to let -- let it reflect market forces. they're having a debate how fast to let it rides. you'll see that play out. sometimes it'll move to gradualism and inertia and sometimes in favor of people moving through the market. >> is it -- what are they telling you? is it realistic to expect the currency to continue. most economists would say that the currency is at least, 10, 20% undervalued. is that going to change under time? is it going to go to a level

that seems more appropriate? >> i think it'll. it'll happen, the question is how. inflation or inflation pushing up the real value of the currency or the nominal exchange rate moving. the last time they let it move, it moved 20% against the dollar. over a roughly two-year period of time. and then the crisis stopped it moving because -- they felt fundamentally that they wanted to pause and -- and provide a measure of stability. while they did that, this is important to recognize. while they did that and held it constant, most of the currency the rest of the world fell very sharply, not just against the dollar but it is because it is against the dollar, and tied the dollar against the r & b, now the world is coming back and some of the market currencies are to you stronger than they were pf the crisis. -- before the crisis and some

are weaker. it is not just important for china, it is important for the emerging world. those currencies that are more flexible have experienced huge upper pressure. they're above the precrisis levels. all of that market pressure is falling disproportionately on them. >> the u.s. has been criticized very heavily in the last few weeks, actions of the federal reserve in particular, the germans complained about quantitative easing and economic policies in u.s. and chinese have too, domestically. you had criticism and the u.s. had criticism about it. somebody said last week, any policy that unites sarah palin and the united states government against it is remarkable. has the united states lost moral authority because of this? >> i think it is american to recognize as a american that the crisis caused a huge amount of daniel to our credibility.

people looked at the united states and said, have we lost the capacity to manage our financial affairs prudentantly? and it is going to take a while to dig out of that loss of credibility. that's partly why we worked so hard and so quickly to make sure that we were address -- this is our financial system, so the system was no longer a source of risk and threat to the global financial stability. it is why it is so important to keep working hard so make sure we're not digging out of the hole quickly but we start to address hong term goals. >> don't you think that they -- >> cure trying to get me to speak about with maltry -- monetary policy, which i won't do. i would like to but i won't about >> go on. >> it is the most important thing, the most important thing the u.s. can do for the world is to make sure we're a growing -- we're growing out of the mess.

the we're cuing the damage caused as quickly as we can. that's overwhelmingly important to the global recovery and -- if you look back at financial crises, they make two errors. the first is they're late to escalate. they underestimate it and slow to move because it is so politically difficult to make the actions to break the back of a financial panic. even when they adjust and catch up and correct, the policy is directed at solving the problem, the typical mistakes the governments make two or three years in, the policy turns indifferent. inertia takes hold and they shift to premature restraint. that ecked is type of mistake can be as damaging as the first. it could leave a economy confined. you saw this in japan, you saw the united states in the 30 rece confined to low levels of economic growth and that leaves the economy living with too much damage.

that mistake is important to avoid. we're trying very hard. i'm only speaking of the executive branch but this is important for the congress too. we got to make sure we don't have the second type of mistake too. we want to -- even though we're growing for five quarters, even though we seen private sector job growth come back and private investment froge rapidly in the early stage -- growing rapidly in the early stayed -- stage, we got to have demand that is self-sustaining and we want to make sure that the government of the united states is reinforcing that transition by providing strongly -- stronger incentives. this is important to long-term growth and the capacity to come out of the crisis quickly. >> one of the things that came out was business uncertainty about the climate. particularly about policy. and -- we have obviously had a big election which -- argue my play increase the uncertainty.

there's an area where business, where everybody is crying out, which is the tax cuts. the bush tax cuts that are due to expire on december -- expire on december 31st. you have the administration has said that it is -- it doesn't want to see a permanent extension of the tax cuts for all -- for all taxpayers. i think that's right. >> we want to see a perm nebt extension, that go to 97, 98% of americans. we want to make sure we extend the classic mix of business extenders and -- incentives for business investment and -- we are -- we would not favor an extension of tax cuts because we don't believe it is the best way to provide support for the economy. we would be very much against a permanent extension because it is just very expensive. we think there are much better uses -- whether you care about the strength of the economy near term, whether you care about the capacity of the government to do things helpful to the long-term competitiveness and things that

help support business investment or the long-term fiscal position, we don't think that's the best use of our cass to borrow. >> that newence is you wouldn't favor any tension of the tax cuts. that seems to suggest that the m., the wiggle room here is for a temporary extension of the tax cuts. that's what is talked about. >> i would love to resolve that here. we have smart people here, we could work this out. it is not rocket science, we could work it out. but i don't want to negotiate. >> give you two years. >> give me five years. >> should not be a complicated problem to solve. the way we're going to approach this debate with the republican here and here in both houses is to say, what is going to be best for the economy? short-term, long-term. what is going to be fair to the middle class, what can we do to make sure we're solving problems, given the long-term fiscal deficits, those

objectives will guide the approach we take to it. >> if you don't do something permanent, you're just increasing the uncertainty. >> you could resolve uncertainty a lot of ways, by providing clarity about the direction of the extensions. that provides certainty too. i will say, it is not a sensible way to run a country to have -- this magnitude of tax issues left to annual uncertainty about extensions. on the business side, many of you live with this, economically quite significant shifts in business tax treatment are left to a -- an annual process of extension, it makes no sense. that's one reason the president proposed in september, that we make permanent a more simplified and larger credit for research and development in the united states. that's just one example. if you care about the long-term competitiveness about the country, you should care not just about how we go about long-term deficits but providing can clarity in the tax code in

way that is is good for business. >> is this going to be done before the end of the year? >> it has to be done. it is very important that congress act on this before they leave town. again, it is not -- it is not rocket science, it is not complicated thing to solve. it has to be solved before they leave town. it would not be a responsible act of government to leave this uncertainty hanging over the economy going into next year. >> would that apply to the estate tax and a.m.t. -- >> yes. >> you think it is important before december 31st, we have a agreement, legislation on those pieces? >> i think it is self-evidently important. you're talking about what would be dramatic changes in tax treatment of individuals, at a time when it makes no sense for that to happen. >> the longer term fiscal questions. we had this very interesting kind of early report last week from the coach -- cochairs of the president's deficit commission asking -- bowles and

simpson, which seems to offer a pretty plausible trajectory for the fiscal position towards a position of long-term fiscal stability. you have had a chance to look at what they proposed. i know there's various other discussions and the commission have not weighed in completely. what they propose changes to social security and the retirement age and cuts to medicare, and significant broad reform of the tax system to -- to proden the base and reduce the manner nall rate. is that broad is that the kind of thing that you would favor? >> i should point out that alex reverend and dom men chi are coming out with a report later this week, with a set of what i suspect will be very sensible ambitious reforms for a long-term fiscal situation. the president -- the president set up this commission because he understands that our capacity to grow as a country depends significantly on our ability to

rebuild some political consensus in the united states on reforms that provide gravity to our long-term fiscal situation. he recognized then as -- as has been recognized in the past if you're going to do this right, you have to do it on bipartisan basis. he took a page out of the reagan social security commission and brought a set of very distinguished republican democrats together to ask them to find a consensus. we're going to let that process play out. we have seen the first step in the proposal that the two chairman of the commission have made. they're beginning that process of trying to -- to build consensus among the members. we're going to let the process play out. again, it is encouraging, that -- that you're seeing people across the political spectrum now recognize and understand that our long-term growth will depend significantly on our capacity to solve it. i think these are certainly -- certainly are five to 10-year fiscal deficits are a manageable challenge for the country. we can solve those deficits

without ticking i think any significant risks that are going to hurt our long-term growth potential. it is -- it is just a political challenge. but we're in a much better position to manage those challenges than for any other major economies, what -- what is more difficult of course is our long-term, the very long-term deficits driven and still by the combination of rapid health care costs and the aging of the population. >> the political challenge seems to be particularly acute for you. as why say president obama appointed the commission. the recommendation so far that commission cochairs cusm out with seem to be on the whole mildly favorably received by republicans and greeted with steaming hostility by democrats. they don't like the idea of increasing social security and the retirement age. they don't like the idea of medicare cuts. they think tax reforms will favor the wealthy. given the president appointed this commission and the direction they have gone, what

do you -- what are you going to recommend to the president about how you handle this? how are you going to handle this opposition from within your observe party? >> i don't think it is surprising. you're hearing people quick out of the box with views and observations on the merits on those. that's not surprising. we're going to let the process play out. out of respect for the people that lend their time to the commission and the complexity of the problem and recognition it is difficult, not going to be easy, we're going to let that process play out. >> i like to get some on. lots of people have questions in the audience. i like to come to -- anybody have questions in a minute. we talked about the impact. straight out, president obama maids his press confence and acknowledged he took a shell languaging as he called it. one of the most interesting part

of the press conference is his relationship with business. he hadn't handled things, got the balance right, to insure that business plays by the rules and the rules are right and insuring that people understand rblings what an important role the private sector plays here. and he committed himself in that press conference to try to get that balance better. what are you going to do to make sure that -- that there is a sense that business and this administration, business and government are working together and to repair what appears to have been quite a fractured relationship in the last couple of years? >> i think it is important to point out -- jerry that, if you look at the profitability of american companies, look at what happened to -- to the market's confidence and the future earnings, if you look at the strength of private investment growth in the early stage of recovery, if you look at the basic strength of corporate

balance, the u.s. is in a strong position to profit from the extraordinary growth we're going to see in -- in the most populace economies of the world. that's partly because of the basic underlying resilience and dynamism of the private sector and substantially as a result of the fact that the president working with congress and alongside the fed was able to break the back of this financial panic very quickly, very successfully and restart economic growth at a much earlier stage than any of us thought was possible. this perception, i think is very damaging. it is important that we work very hard to repair it. and what we're going to try to do, as you're seeing us do is make sure we're laying out proposals for economic policy that are going to be good for business incentives and good for the basic underhighing strength of the u.s., is this committee going forward. i'll give you three, four examples. stronger incentives for business

investment, short-term, long term, have r-very important to the cometiveness. and substantial investment in public infrastructure, fully paid for, fiscally responsible is important to the underlying strength of the economy and a sustained effort to make sure that exports are going rapidly, is going to be important to our capacity to grow in the future. now of course we're doing a range of other things too, to make sure the government is providing a lot of support for basic science, for basic research, things that have broad benefits over time. but i think the best thing we could do is make sure we're laying on the proposals that have had a hot of republican support in the past. and are unambiguously good for the capacity to grow. make sure we're working hard to spend political capital to get support for the proposals. >> could i open it up to any questions? i did want to ask, that we didn't discuss, very much in the news, europe. the debt death crisis taking

hold there. there seems to be a division, there is a division among the europeans. they're divided about whether the irish government should seek a bailout from the european union or the i.m.f. and the irish seem to resist that -- and what in terms of global financial stability, this has an affect, how should this e-be resolved? should there be an early move to resolve these, where the government in the periphery has huge debt problems or let the markets play out as they are now. >> out of defer rennes to the europeans, i don't want to speak to the details of ireland or port gal right now. i would say the following, europe put in place in the summer to -- took them a while to do it. they put this place in the summer a very strong set of financial instruments to help those countries manage through the very difficult challenges that they had on the fiscal side

and financial side. that gives european leaders the ability to do what you normally want to do in a crisis. you want to make sure you move very quickly and you have a combination of policy reforms that help, help resolve the problem with temporary financial support to let countries manage through them. you want as a gem lessen, you saw this over the last spring and summer in europe, you want to move quickly on these things. both with policy reforms and with, if it is necessary, kind of contingent back stuff assistance to help countries manage through it. again i would say the lessens of the experience are that europe learned a little painfully last 134er, you want to do this quickly and decisively and not wait. >> do you think the -- the euro can survive? >> do i think so. i think it is in europe's power to manage. they have made that choice. >> okay.

yes. at the back there. thank you. there's a motor vehicle phone coming, sorry. ted craber. on the quantitative easing, do you envision sometime in the future that you would unwind the quantitative easing? if so, what type of future are we looking at there? what is the indication you would use to unwind the qe 2. >> i would love to talk about that, the executive branch doesn't talk about with monetary policy or the actions of the binds fed. i want to honor that tradition. you should direct that to my colleagues at the fed. >> there's decision, there's no movement on fiscal policy right now. there isn't much movement in any other areas -- >> isn't there a sense that the fed is the only game in town here? when you're abroad, you're defending fed policy. >> i don't think -- you do not want to be in a position where

you leave the burden for solving these problems on the central bank. there's things they can do and can't do. you don't want to leave the burden of these things on the central bank of any country. but let me come back to your premise on fiscal policy. i think it is quite likely that you're going to see an agreement on tax policy and i hope you're going to see that followed by -- for individuals. i hope you see that followed by a consensus on a set of sensible changes to the incentives for investment in the united states. that will make odds likely that the fiscal policy is more supportive of this transition to the private demand recovery. i think that's more likely now. >> there's a strong belief among economists, the i.m.f. said this. the case right now is for -- for some more fiscal stim husband for the u.s., given the weak state of demand in the u.s. but

accompanied by long-term man, plausible long-term plan for fiscal consolidation. is that something, as the new congress arrives in january, is that something you will try to get from them, if it is, one thing floated is a payroll tax holiday, that's talked about, you could to that. that would be a significant boost for short-term demand. a really sthisket boost and it would be a-- significant boost, and it would cause maybe deficit changes, is that somebody you would discuss. >> you're right. the ideal mix of policies for a country like the united states is to combine a credible set of reforms that bring the deficits down over the medium term to a sustainable level to -- with a carefully designed action that could provide catalyst to recovery now. absolutely is the right mix. that's why the president proposed in the fall these series of -- of investment focused tax changes and public

investment plans that will help reinforce that argument. it is absolutely right. i think that as you look at all of these things, you have to make sure that you're not -- you're doing things that are good for long-term growth, not just short-term growth. as many people observed looking back over this period of time, you want to make sure you're doing things that add to -- to long-term growth prospects. that's why over the last three months, we put so much emphasis on investment related incentives. we proposed in september a -- a one-year period, 100% expensing offer capital investment by any american business. now that's true, that does pull forward investment from the future. if you pull forward investment, rather than spending on houses for example or consumption, you're more likely to be left with something that leaves the economy more productive in the future. that's where we still put the emphasis. there's other ideas out there. we don't have the monopoly wisdom on ideas.

we want to come together with the new leadership and figure out what is the best thing we could do for the economy near term that is good for long-term growth. how do we do that in a way that is physically responsible? >> yes. please wait for the microphone. it should be on. take it. >> nick from snap-on tools. you said some things that i think are very well rfed by the audience, i think. short-term focus on the economy, extension of the tax credits. the president proposing permanent extension of r & d and business proposals. if we went back a year ago, most people here would have said we heard very little of that. and i ask you what priorities sort of outranked those considerations and what could the business community have done to raise them in the mind of the

administration. i like to look forward now, rather than looking back over that period of time. i who say the fol. i -- let me speak from my perspective as secretary of the trishry, we did put an overwhelming focus in the first 18 months on the -- on the necessary essential challenges of making sure that we were -- we were fixing what was broken if the financial system, recapitalizing the american system and making sure the markets were healing and -- you know, restarting the process of growth globally and then -- then fixing the most glaring flaws of our basic financial system. we put an overwhelming focus of those in the early stage of the administration, which i think we had to do. nothing is possible without making sure that the economy was growing again and credit markets were functioning. nothing possible in the long-term without that essential basic achievement.

but, you know, the challenges in the recovery changes over -- change over time. after restarting the basic growth dynamic in the united states, the challenge shifts. to trying to figure out how you're sustaining it. you're transitioning more effectively to recover by private demand. that dynamic is under way now and it is very encouraging in its initial concept. it is important to get perspective on this. i want to go through it again. household savings increased significantly. private investment growing very rapidly. exports performing really quite well. by any measure, productivity growth, very strong. profitability and balance sheets in the american corporate sector, very strong. underlying dynamics in the corporate sector, across industries look healthy to us. that's fundamentally encouraging about our broad place in the world but -- you know, we're

still not growing fast enough coming out of this. where we have the capacity to provide an initial spark, an initial spark to private investment that is a responsible use of government and our capacity to borrow now. that's a good focus for attention. as you said and i said earlier, you want to make sure you're doing a mix of short-term and long-term things at the same time, again that's why we think this mix of private investment incentives and investment in infrastructure and export support is a good strategy. creating a more competitive america. what we're trying to do, part of that is about strengthening the incentives for investments -- investing the united states. we'll be a major part of the growth in the emerging world. we want to see as much of that

as possible, supported by american imcongratulations. >> please join me in thanking secretary depitener for being here. [applause] >> the national security administrator was questioned about the pat-down procedure today. that's next on c-span. arizona congressman jeff blake talks about ear marks. and congressman charlie rangel is found guilty on 11 ethics charges. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] [captions performed by the national captioning institute]

>> good afternoon. the hearing will come to order. our subject is air cargo

security. beginning with the -- with the attacks against america on 9/11, our terrorist enemies have consistently sought to use airplanes as weapons of mass destruction. more generally, they have seen in the aviation system a strategic choke point of international transit and commerce that could be brought to a halt or at least a stopped through terror attacks. we -- we have seen shoe bombers and liquid bombers and underwear bombers. again and again, terrorists have sought different ways to blow up an airplane. in the most recent attempt of course, terrorists hid bombs inside the tauper cartridges of printers and -- toner cartridges as printers and sent them to the u.s. as air cargo. this plot as the others before it was thwarted in this case

largely but of tra ordinary intelligence and here we give thanks and credit to our friends and allies in saudi arabia. but there was in this an element of good fortune, luck and look, of course is not a strategic to defend our nation from a threat of terrorists. as this most recent plot demonstrates good intelligence and strong foreign partnerships are critically important. i think that the point that remains with us and it is -- it is that phrase that echos from the 9/11 report that -- the hamilton report this which they said 9/11 occurred because of a failure of imagination. our failure to imagine that people could possibly try to do what the terrorists did to us on 9/11. every time one of these events happens, it -- it compels us to

figure out how we could better anticipate trysts next move. not just react to the last one. former t.s.a. administrator and secretary of the d.s. james roy said in an op-ed in the "washington post" that after the 9/11 hijacking we heartened doors and then we remove our shoes. then they try liquid explosives in sports drinks and then we cracked down on liquids that could be brought on board. then the underwear bomber came close to bringing down a plane over detroit and now we have full body imaging. i support those steps. now they're going after a weak spot in cargo inspections. and -- we will respond to that as well we should but they are -- our enemies will keep looking

for -- for new volenerabilities. we have got to continue to -- to try to think as they would and raise our defenses before they strike. we were lucky none of these attempt -- attempts succeeded but they will continue to probe our weaknesses attempting to detect our flaws and then -- then defending against them. we have to make sure that not only does our luck not run out, but that we're prepared to stop whatever they try. here's some of the questions that i like to ask our -- ask our witnesses today. clearly both the gathering of intelligence and acting on it is crucial. i want to ask -- how we can improve our intelligence beyond even where it is now. intelligence is always -- is always important in war, never more important than in the particular war with islammist

extremists trysts that we're fighting today for all of the reasons that i just talked about. threats come within the united states or from abroad. our ability to deter and intersect that foreign threat here is limited by our own sovereignty. we have got to depend on foreign partners to implement strong security programs and i want to -- i want to ask both of you what we're doing to strengthen those relationships and implement international security programs. obviously, we have limited direct control over incoming passenger flights and -- and -- cargo flights. while our government has chiefed 100% screening of air cargo on domestic passenger flights which is a -- a significant accomplishment consistent with the 9/11 legislation we adopted,

only about 60% of cargo on passenger flights coming in to the united states from abroad is screened. there's a -- there's a kind of patchwork system on -- on cargo shipments on all cargo aircraft. i want to ask how we can prove that and convince our foreign countrys to expand and accelerate, their screening of -- of cargo coming either on passenger flights or all cargo flights to the united states. right now we require air carryiers from europe, asia and africa and south america to provide manifest information after the plane has taken off. four hours before it is due too arrive. can't we move that timeline up? isn't there a -- additional or different information that may be helpful in identifying high richar go. finally, how are we preparing to identify the next gap terrorists

will likely try to exploit? do we have an institutional way -- as difficult and unprecedented as this enemy is in threatening our homeland security to -- to try to think ahead of them? our witnesses today are of course ideally positioned, by -- by -- by the offices they hold now and by their experience to help us answer these questions, t.s.a. administrator john pistol and customs com misser allen, i thank you for both of you being here and look forward to your testimony. >> thank you, mr. chairman. mr. chairman, your testimony particularly when you were quotinged a miral loy shows up that the terrorists remain up flagging in their determination to exploit scomploith vulnerabilities in the -- exploit vulnerabilities in the

security systems developed since 2 september 11, 200 2001. the united states has narrowly avoided two mots against aviation, the first was averted by sheer luck and the quick action of the passengers and crew in the skies above detroit on christmas day. the second which we just discussed was disrupted due it intelligence shared by our allies and -- and the hard work of federal law enforcement intelligence and homeland security officials. and several international partners. and i want to commend the two leaders who are before us today who i know worked around the clock once they were n-informed of this threat. informed of the threat. in these two failed attacks we

see the fan natism and patience of our enemies. both thwarted, these plots should prompt us to reexamine whether our priorities are correct and our resources properly deployed. . .

the department of homeland security must use this in your misses to redouble its work with other countries, airline carriers, and shippers to tighten the security network. we must move quickly to shore up our defenses without interfering with the legitimate flow of commerce. that is always the challenge that we faced al qaeda at is

seeking to destroy our economy and way of life. as well as to kill our people. we must not allow either goal to be accomplished. the ihs should analyze how government can best focus its -- dhs should focus. it could provide a road map for risk based screening of the air cargo. maritime cargo manifest information must be submitted to d h s at least 24 hours before it heads to the united states. using this information and other intelligence, the dhs target

high-risk cargo for inspection prior to the departure. in sharp conference, air cargo manifest information is required to be submitted only four hours before the cargo arrives in the united states. that is a major difference. it needs -- it means that the information is transmitted well -- while the aircraft is in the air. provided no opportunity to conduct further inspections of flat cargo before departure. that reminds me of the problem where he was flagged and was going to be stopped, but only after he are arrived in the united states. we have a similar problem in the case of our air cargo. customs and border protection have good knowledge that based

on the shipping information, about the to package from yemen, the agency would have applied them as a high risk upon arrival in the united states. our whole concept is to pus out our borders so that that screening, that the flagging of dangerous cargo occurs not when the cargo is a riding in our country, but before it is even put on board a vessel or in aircraft bound for this country. i recognize that the tempo of air cargo supply chain is different from maritime cargo, but regardless, we have an obligation to examine vulnerability is in our supply chains and to manage risk to those systems. there are also opportunities to make better use of the private sector in securing air cargo

overseas or screening efforts are now more limited. instead of attempting to screen almost all cargo at the airport, it could be screened at a warehouse for the package is sealed long before it arrives at an airport and kept secure until it is delivered to the air carrier. that is just one idea that would avoid the potential delays of trying to do everything immediately prior to loading packages. dhs mustned that constantly read -- reevaluate the allocation of its security. i still remain concerned about the intrusiveness and effectiveness of the advanced imaging technology as a potential negative help a fact. this is an issue -- health effect.

i believe the department should independently evaluate the help the facts of the technology end should consider -- health effects of the technology and should consider technology that respects travelers privacy by automatically identifying objects that could be a threat. my department's response to inquiries have been inadequate. i know that he was on his way to view this technology when the plot from yemen was on coverage. i want to a knowledge that. obviously, our government's first priority is to protect our people against terrorism. the public will accept a certain level of intrusion and

inconvenience. dhs should be using technologies and techniques that are as safe and effective as a possible -- as possible that minimize privacy concerns whenever possible. thank you. >> thank you, senator collins. we welcome your statement now. >> good to be here today. to address the committee of the rolls in the area of air cargo security. i appreciate the committees' leadership and ongoing efforts to ensure the security of air cargo and passenger for the american people. three of weeks ago, as we have noted, we disrupted the attack

when the individuals we believe to be -- concealed explosive devices hidden and toner cartridges. the two packages were shipped from yemen and destined for the united states. the incident began on october 28. i got a call regarding specific credible intelligence as to exact packages that should be assessed. we worked through the night and over the next few days, staying in close contact with their colleagues throughout the u.s. intelligence -- u.s. intelligence law enforcement community. of course, the private sector. the first step, i immediately

grounded all air cargo packages coming from yemen. we took additional steps in conjunction -- for example, would quickly identified and located all other u.s. bound packages from yemen that were in transit. we located and identified those packages. we provide additional focus on current threats. there were a team of security inspectors to work with the authorities to provide cargo screening gardens -- guidance, expertise, and detection equipment. i leveraged a previously planned speech that i had to the aviation securities will conference in frankfurt to -- and gave that speech, met with

counterparts from europe. i met with the international air transport association, a world recognized expert in the area. i went to examine five days after the plot became -- we became aware of the plot. several days later, on november 2, we spoke with leaders of the international shipping industry, including ups and fedex. about enhancing air cargo security without its disrupting the critical air cargo supply chain. on november 8, we announce that air cargo from yemen and somalia would be banned from flights to

the u.s. for the immediate future. we indicated no high-risk cargo would be allowed on aircraft bound for the u.s. all high-risk cargo would receive additional and enhanced screening. we were to the postmaster general on some of those issues. these are just some of the steps we have taken. those steps will continue. we have required the 100% screening of air cargo transport on domestic air carriers. we have worked in large part to

the certified card the screening program, or we have over 1100 private companies in the u.s. to do screenings away from the airport. it is done through these private screening facilities that we certify, we inspect. >> is that for passenger planes and cargo planes? >> it is for passenger planes. we're looking at the possibility with cargo, recognizing that fedex and ups have their own screening regiment and do a very good job independent of what we would do. this security program keeps commerce moving without creating a screening bottleneck at the airport. we are looking at that as a worldwide model for implementation.

a number of different issues that we are addressing, i would just note that in june of last year, the hazmat about the online targeting system to better target to high risk cargo. these efforts complement our continued diplomatic work with their international counterparts. thank you for the opportunity to be here today. i look forward to working with the committee and as we consider these collective efforts, i will take to questions. >> thank you. commissioner, thank you for being here. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i acknowledge and appreciate the committees' leadership and support in exploring the gaps in the deficits that we have said that we can more effectively

confront terrorism. i would like to address three dimensions of war work. first is the air cargo processing that we currently engaged and the second is building on the administrators testimony. the response to the october 29 event. the partnership with tsa and the steps we are complementary -- contemplating taking together. with regard to a cargo -- air cargo, a rise in this country into ways. -- it arrives in this country in two ways. in fiscal year 2010, we processed nearly 334,000 such flights and inspected and screen to over 57 million regular and

express records. this is a massive part of our international trade policy and economy. currently, our systems and processes are designed to identify high-risk cargo for inspection after their arrival in the united states. they are not designed to identify dangerous cargo prior to take off as art -- as is our regime in the maritime context. under the trade act of 2002, carriers currently must provide cargo manifest data four hours prior to the arrival of the aircraft. upon receipt of the advanced manifest data, cbp processes and

deep data. the system identifies potential threats, hazardous materials, and other areas of concern to the agencies and the nation. ats is the primary platform used by the department of homeland security. it is used by our air cargo advanced targeting units at local airports to conduct risk assessment. it is also used by our national target incentive cargo located in virginia, which conducts high-level sweeps based on intelligence and specific targeting rules but are written to reflect present and prospective threats that we perceive to intelligence or otherwise. these rules identify risk factors ever-present in the manifest did that we receive from the carriers.

each of these risk factors receives a quantitative value or score and give the shipment exceed a predetermined score or threshold for national security concerns, replace the shipment on hold. we conduct an examination upon arrival. once the cargo arrives in the united states, we conduct examinations of all such identified high risk air cargo where other cargo identified as high risk by the local against targeting units. these examinations must include the non intrusive inspection equipment is available or physical inspection of the shipment as well as a mandatory radiations can. we also -- radiation scan. the customs trade partnership -- importers and shippers adopt

minimum security standards, at which they must adhere to throughout their security chain. in exchange, we treat the shipment at slower risk and provide fewer inspections. as the illustrator indicated, when we began -- we became aware of the threat, we responded immediately by identifying all air cargo shipments from yemen destined to the united states, aside from the two that were the subject of the increase in the emirates and the united kingdom. what we ask right away was, what more could be coming toward us? who could have been sending it to us? and how quickly can we mitigate or neutralize that risk? we ascertained at the location of each shipment and we held them to inspection. we've been completed inspections using x-ray systems, explosives detective canines and equipment.

we can go into further questions and answers, 38 shipments in total, and we discovered an identified those shipments within hours of receiving the information. within days, we had located all those 38 shipments among millions of packages that arrived in the country. within a week, we've satisfied ourselves and cleared those cargoes as a result of techniques of scanning that were applied to them. where do we go in the days ahead and the months ahead? with the help and guidance of experts, ever since the december 29 incident involving -- the partnership that has produced a valuable results for our nation

and for the homeland security. we need to do the same now with regard to air cargo. what we believe is that ts cooperation is the best source of the project -- progress we can make quickly. we're providing assistance to a gsa to fill out the mandate set forth in the recommendations of the 9/11 commission, to screen 100% of cargo transport on passenger aircraft. we are collaborating to exploring the potential of utilizing the automated targeting system as a risk targeting tool in the air cargo context. it can be shared. this will allow us to leverage the data information already collected. we also acknowledge the importance of partnering with

the private sector. with partners in that sector, they can assume a considerable assistance and let -- and lend us considerable assistance in securing the supply chain. we also recognize that we must receive information in the advance of what we are currently receiving and we are working with tsa in determining what the parameters of that car. our private sector partners, to get their views as how they can most expeditiously -- expeditiously provide that information. let me abbreviate the statements that we can get on to the dialogue of questions and answers. we believe that we have the

foundation in place to implement a more effective system. we can strengthen the system and do it relatively quickly. we should do it cautiously and deliberately and i look forward to working with this committee and its staff in reaching a satisfactory outcome in building the next level of security into our air cargo system. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, commissioner. we will go to the questioning now. we'll have seven-minute questions. we're focused on air cargo security, but more broadly on the question of aviation security. the so-called pats' down procedures that follow and are

associated with the use of the whole body imaging scanners, we held hearings on this subject after the christmas day bombing attempt. most of us were calling for you to go to the whole body scanners. i wanted to give you an opportunity to explain the pat- down procedures that have troubled people and why you think they're justified. >> there is an effort evolving nature of the plots that has been described here. the challenge for the whole u.s. government's is to develop both the best techniques and the tactics enabled by the best technologies to identify those plots.

it is clear that we have to be one step ahead of the terrorists. we are not always in that situation, as evidenced by these last three plots that could have been successful. it really comes down to a balance of where partnership on one hand, working with the traveling public, the safety issues on the other hand, and what is the proper mix. what we try to do is understand and we want to be sensitive to privacy concerns and their personal being. but we have to ensure that everybody on every flight has been properly screened. we recognize that to reasonable people can disagree as to what that proper balance or blend is between privacy and security safety. that being the case, i think everybody who gets on a flight wants to be assured that everybody else around them has been properly screened and

everybody else on the flight mixed -- wants to make sure that i have been properly screened. how do we reach that balance? that is the challenge that we go through. the advancing technology is the best technology that we have today to detect the nonmetallic devices that are well concealed. what i am concerned about and i know many share this concern is that we have an individual who opt out of advanced imaging technology, thinking that, i will not receive a thorough passed down and i can get on that flight. what i want to reassure the public is that we are concerned about your safety and security and your privacy. let's work together to ensure that we can have it the best way forward.

>> let me take a moment -- make clear, if you will, how does someone get subjected to a pat- down? >> there is a very small percentage that would actually have it. it would occur almost exclusively in situations where somebody has opted out of the advanced imaging technology or that they have alerted on that because there is something in their pockets or they may be trying to carry some contraband. >> it did they have chosen not to go through the scanner or they have gone do it and there is some alerts. >> there is some basis for do that. even with that, there is a very small percentage of all the passengers. very few people -- because it is

a new technique. i have been in europe several times over last few months and have observed it being done in many airports. it is very similar. our approach is very similar to what is being utilized in europe. >> you have the same gender person doing it. i presume that are put the training. this is a difficult balance. this has to be a more intimate and intrusive investigation because they are instructed in a way that will determine whether somebody is potentially dangerous, but also when doing so, doing minimal harm to their privacy. >> correct trade if they go through training.

the clearest outcome of that training is to be professional and to give clear guidance and a lot of clarity as to what they are going to do in terms of the actual path down -- pat-down. there has been a lot of publicity out there about a certain individual who traveled but did not want to have it. if people get away from just the passengers to hear what the security officer was saying, very cool, professional, collected. they did this in a way that is professional. again, the bottom line is if you have to plan sadr getting ready to depart and one he said, everybody has been thoroughly screened on this planet. where we have another plan where we have not done a thorough screening because people did not feel comfortable that. i think, most of us would say i

want to go on that plan that has been thoroughly screened. >> i agree with you. i think you are given the right thing. perhaps the reaction got ahead of the department's description of what you're doing and what you're doing it. -- and why you are doing it. if it had gone off on the plane over detroit, the public would have been demanding -- not just the body imaging equipment -- but pat-downs. i understand the private see -- privacy concerns, of course. we get on those plans and we want to have the confidence that nobody on that plane has evaded security in a way that will allow them to blow up the plane

and kill everybody else on it. this is unfortunately the world in which we live. it was not our choice. but we have to do everything we can to protect the travelling public. i think that what you are doing it here is difficult. it is sensitive, but it is necessary for the security of the american people. my time is up. >> let me start with a fundamental question. but for the intelligence tip that was provided by a car allies, would our current security system have detected these packaged bombs? >> my professional opinion, no. >> that raises the issue of what can we do to make sure that

in the future, if there is another attempt to exploit the gaps and the air cargo security, that we have closed those gaps. in many ways, we're lucky that we had an ally with extremely specific intelligence information that allowed us to target these packages before harm was done. what is the single biggest change that you think we should be making. >> we have high confidence and indeed known shippers. we have high confidence in those

international shippers with established records. the challenge because -- the challenge becomes other hot spots around the world where there is not a known relationship. the challenge of screening those packages in the same way that we would require here in the u.s., there are several challenges what is the capacity of some countries. some countries, like yemen, and they have an x-ray machine that they use for cargo. but they were not using explosive trace detection or 100% physical inspection of packages. there are a number of issues and challenges there. >> i would be worried about the people doing the screening and whether they share our goal. >> you raise a very good point. the insider threat, if you will,

what kind of biting and validang of those individuals is being done? that is done even around the globe. >> -- uneven around the globe. >> we have a pretty well defined system for the screening of cargo that comes by the maritime system. 24 hours before the cargo is even loaded on the ship overseas, we have a manifest that is combined with other information to allow us to identify the cargo and target that which may be of high risk. why can we do that -- can we do that with air cargo? a system that says, we want to know four hours before it arrives at our shores provides

very little protection. the flight might be already on routes. -- en routhe. te. >> one that the to deal with this is to segment the traffic. the other method of doing this is the risk management that we have applied in the maritime context. the three elements are -- receiving the information in infanta, sufficiently in the ban so that we can apply are targeting rules and attempt to identify any high-risk cargo. scan or screen and using appropriate technology. in effect, we should be looking at the same techniques and we

have begun that process. it we will want to customize its given the nature of the trade. the differences between the maritime and aviation context. the broad categories can give us good guidance. >> are you looking at increasing the am out of time -- the amount of time before cargo a ship to our country where you receive a listing of the cargo? the four hour strikes me as something you could change immediately. for example, in response to the times square bomber attempt, the tsa acted immediately to change the update will on targeted individuals. are you looking at the four-hour rule? >> we are and we are looking -- we are working with the private

sector, the airlines, the cargo carriers, to reach a determination of how we can advance that a deadline for providing information. we expect that we will be coming up with a revised recommendation in the near future. >> it is as much as a pragmatic issue. if we could -- if i could issue a security directive today saying 24 hours, whenever it would be, the question is, are the carriers capable of implementing that today? that is what the commissioner is referring to in terms of working with them. what can they do electronically? all of these smaller carriers around the world are not released electronic. how do we make it happen? >> we will call on senator

levenson, senator brown. >> i want to presume senator collins questions again. right now, the rule is that you have to have your manifest to four hours before the arrival. is that correct? >> for those destinations that are less than four hours from our shores, it is upon wheels up. >> what are the practical problems of increasing that? >> the first is the electronic systems to get the information to us. >> that is the same whether it is four hours or six hours. there has to be an electronic system. so you could do 8 hours with the

same problem? with're trying to work out the carriers that can do that. what would be the system that would provide us with the information? >> that is not a practical problem. >> the problem of making sure that we are getting it as quickly as we can and getting information back to the carrier, putting a hold on certain high- risk cargo. >> why would 12 hours help you do that? >> it would help you. >> so that is not a practical reason. there are practical problems and i have not heard one yet. >> the practical problems --

there are airlines that simply do not have the capacity to electronically transmitted to the data to us. >> part of it, senator, is that the carriers themselves do not have that manifest data. sometimes it is only two or three hours. >> if it is required that a 12 hours, then they will have the manifest data. that is not a practical problem. that is the same that you have to have been manifest in data. >> if there is a last-minute shipment or something, they are out of luck. >> one hour before our arrival? what are the other problems?

>> the small carriers around the world, and we are not talking about ups and fedex, we are working with them to provide notification when they receive the manifest, whatever the time line might be. >> that is not a practical problems yet. i have not heard a practical problem yet. it is paul bowers, whatever. why can you do that right now? -- it is 8 hours, 12 hours, whatever. why can't you do that right now? >> those packages, they would not have the capacity to provide that information more than four hours and events at this time. i would have to differ --

>> the lumber number of hours, the greater number of hours prior to arrival, it seems to be the easier it is to get the information. you have more time. i do not get it, folks. i do not see the urgency in your testimony here. i do not get it. it is such an obvious question. i do not know why we do not have a direct answer. >> the practical problem is the one from the situation from the status quo to where we want to be. no one is saying that we should not move there. >> it is a matter of issuing a directive. >> the practical problem is that it has not been done because it has been perceived that it would unduly interfere with the commerce in the world.

we have come to a situation like this, there is an urgency. we overcome a lot of the practical problems that we are keeping the situation from being handled that way in the past. >> i read your comments about -- about the length of time. use a security cannot bring business to a standstill. i do not think that anyone is suggesting that business be brought to a standstill. is it reasonable to tell people, you have to have your package enter document in 12 hours before the plane lands? that does not bring it to a standstill. that slows it down. will the public of the world except the delay in getting

something out to where it has to go in order to have greater security? my answer is, -- this is easier than pat-downs. i was worried about your comment about the delicate balance. rather than you telling us, yes, you do not see any practical reason neither. we are trying to overcome practical problems, which you have not been able to identify. >> in terms of your risk management and assessment contract, the issue comes down to, if we would impose on all cargo worldwide the same mandates that we have here. the cost of doing that would

actually exceed the revenue from that cargo. >> increase in four hours to a hours -- >> a different issue. >> i think he should get your experts to provide for the record what does practical problems are. my time is up. >> i accept that suggestion. >> good to be back. thank you for putting this together. my concerns are pretty simple. what tools and resources do you need to better do your job so we can figure out to -- god forbid that this happens again. as someone who flies and family members to fly, i want to make

sure that when i or my family or friends get on a plane, and that the cargo -- how common is it to have a full flight of passengers and to have some extra room on a passenger plane and have that cargo then be filled? >> would under% it originated in the u.s. are screened. 100% are rigid in the u.s. our screens. >> we are not there yet because we do not have either the civil aviation authority is not put on the same procedures that we

have. their estimates anywhere from 2/3 to 80% of all the cargo is being screened. the one takeaway is that we say it was under% of the high risk. we do not provide that publicly. how does that work? it is a good point. >> toner cartridges from yemen -- did that have a red flag go off? did not raise a red flag. >> it absolutely did. >> how did even get on the plane? different protocols, for example. it was separated in the box -- segregated in the box. they had identified it as

suspect packages. when you ask for the cooperation of the various carriers, did you get the cooperation of all of them? >> absolutely. >> there were no questions asked. >> they had been very capable as partners. they're looking for solutions that make sense. >> is there going to be an updated screening and inspection plan when it comes to those transfers? is there something that you are proposing more working on? >> how do we work with our international partners? international civil aviation organization, part of the un, under 90 countries signed up under the declaration last month in montreal. they're trying to leverage their resources in a way that builds

capacity in some of the areas of the world that need additional screening protocols or actual trace detection. >> i lived in two other countries and you see the cargo. -- i have lived in other countries and you see the cargo. it will take a commitment to ensure the partners aviation -- aviation partners, people who fly into the united states and delivered goods, they take their jobs seriously. i recognize the comments of the two previous questioners regard -- regarding the timing. is there a way to ensure speed and accuracy when it comes to x- ray and inspecting? do we have the technology to do that to make sure that we do not slow down this to a crawl? >> generally, yes.

it comes down to known shippers that are trusted partners. the problematic ones are those individual shippers that we do not have any history on. we do not have any intelligence about who this person is, what they are shipping. if someone is printing -- shipping a computer printer from yemen to chicago, that is the kind of information that we need. >> how much of your cargo is being screened today? he touched upon it earlier. >> wonder% in the u.s.. -- 100% in the u.s. they use a variety of those that clearly?

rate, it explosive trees detection, -- explosive traced protection it -- detection. they transport its a few miles and a secure fashion to the airport to put on the cargo flights. >> in conclusion, i want to solve a problem. i want to figure out what you need to get the job done and whether -- we have a private meeting, or whatever works. we have identified -- at some point, we're not going to be lucky. i gave you the tools. this is not about party politics. this is about the safety of our

citizenry and to keep commerce moving. if you could just post testimony at some point. that would be a big help. >> good idea, senator brown. it will arrange for that. >> from the beginning of your service in the senate to this, your last week with us, you've been a most faithful member of this committee. probably attending more than anybody else. so thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman. it is because of the interest in this committee and this topic here has caught my interest because i may not be on point for all my quick questions, but i am concerned about travel across this country. you canr. kespistole, answer this, what is the

definition of a high-risk package? >> the do not define a publicly. -- we do not define it publicly. >> we have to stop putting everything out there. i'm sorry, go ahead. >> it is generally outside the known shipper trusted arena. generally, individuals who are shipping packages with no history, perhaps from some hot areas such as yemen, horn of africa, things like that. it is all intelligence driven. what do we know about the shepard? was the package physically inspected? what do we know about the cargo carrier? how thorough is the airport at the facility? a lot of criteria goes into the

planning. >> those packages were headed to synagogues allegedly in chicago? that is another concern. on the past downs -- pat-downs, we have some airports that are staffed by contract screeners. is that correct? >> 17 airports are staffed by contract employees. >> how do you deal with those in these airports? do you have jurisdiction over those individuals? >> absolutely. they to follow the exact same protocols that we put out for all employees. >> have they gone to the same training? >> they have been to the same training. they are identical to beat security officers -- to the security officers.

>> what are their contract employees? >> congress decided that that should be an option, that there should be the opportunity to have paralyzed airports or to the private security done. some members of congress still very strongly about that. >> you say that is written into the law. >> i do not have much longer and the senate, but we should look at this private contractors. i am concerned about the number of private contractors. i am wondering reliability is going to be if one of those passengers feels like they've been over screens. what would the liability there be?

in terms of the underwear bomber, would patting down would have caught him? in your estimation? >> yes. >> not the machine. >> yes. >> it was a diaper type of arrangement. >> yes. >> of their going-deep in terms of individuals. >> they are based on the latest intelligence and the information that we have. >> he was on the plane. >> that is right. that is why we change the policy. >> ok. our personnel have received adequate training? do we know what will happen if -- is their litigation coming out of this?

the pilots association is getting ready to bring some type of action. because of the excessive patting down a flight attendants and pilots. >> that has been the case. pilots do not go through the advanced imaging technology. they are allowed to keep their shoes on. we are actively exploring options as it involves pilots because we're using a risk based approach and it begs the question, if you have somebody was in charge of the aircraft and can put the aircraft down, then why do we have a screening for them? in the near future, i will be announcing some new policies on that. >> there is also questions

about the degree of x-rays that these individuals have to go through in the course of their day-to-day work and what that will do to their physical health. >> that is one of the concerns that has been raised. what i rely upon is the scientific literature and studies being done using these kinds of machines. they have all done independent assessments of the advanced imaging technology. going through one of these machines is similar to receiving about three minutes of radiation that you would receive that 30,000 feet on a normal flight.

we are also trying to update and balloted others to have opinions about that. >> how about the protection of the personnel? if i get accused of grabbing a lady's breast -- how are they protected now? >> it is only same gender security officers that would do it. people can request a private -- >> would there be a witness? >> you are welcome to have a witness. county personnel requests a witness to be there? -- ken a personnel requesting a witness to be there? >> it is not our current policy, but unless it goes into a private screening area, the closed-circuit tv would capture virtually all of that.

every checkpoint has cctv enabled. >> i am also concerned about our tsa personnel. i am listening to these complaints. as an administrator, i am counting on you to take care of those people who take care of us. we cannot have disgruntled personnel. >> i could not agree with you more, senator. >> thank you. he becomes the oldest member of the delegation. we will treat you with a lot more respect. [laughter] >> thank you, mr. chairman. i think. wa