murphy of the american civil liberties union. we'll talk about the compensation packages for the ceo's of america's biggest corporations. . . the lame-duck session continues

after it the thanksgiving holiday. at the white house today, the president meeting with the democratic congressional leaders. tonight he departs for lisbon. some of the headlines on this thursday morning. it tupelos seek to lead the democrats but the path remains unclear. -- in "the times" nancy pelosi to lead the democrats, but the path cremains unclear. and the u.s. recovery in billions in gm stock. we want to get your thoughts on the general motors. we also have a line for independents. you can join the conversation

online or send us an e-mail. let's get right to the newspaper and the headlines from "the detroit free press." the selling price at $33 per share will mean that government needs an average and future stock sales to break even on its nearly $50 billion investment for general motors. some calling it government motors during the bailout efforts of the last 17 months. buyers include giant pensions and hedge funds and gm workers and retirees.

it will repay the government of the nearly 17 billion -- the u.s. and government for the 49.5 billion is spent on its controversial rescue at gm. it stands to raise up to $22 billion for the company. the reporting from a number of "new york times " reporters begins this way. not

let it to your phone calls. the numbers will continue to be on the bottom of your screen. we welcome our listeners on c- span radio and nationwide. curtis joining us from pensacola, fla. on the democrats' line. good morning. caller: i have a comment about housekeeping for general motors. why does it seem like most of you guys and gals the minute the democrats are talking about stuff, you want to talk them off, but you let the republicans go. general motors, time will tell. it seems like right-wing agenda preach and talk for free enterprise, but it seems like

their policies do not back it up. i do not understand why the country keeps of voting republican, when the republican agenda and mindset has put us in this drama. explain to me why our country is so polarized. every person says there are republican, i turned them all. in -- if a person says they are republican, i turn them off. host: good morning to jeff from annapoliindianapolis. caller: icing they should go to general motors and stand in front and said that was me that fought to keep american automakers part of the auto industry.

there are people on the other side saying that the bailout was bad cost. who is out here fighting for u.s. jobs? lache just tell the real story about who is fighting to save u.s. jobs. -- let's just tell the real story about who is fighting to save u.s. jobs. host: john is joining us on the republican line from kansas city. caller: the rewards are interesting when you do the math. specifically the amount that u.s. taxpayers made was roughly 50 billion more or less. is that correct? host: just about 50 billion.

49.5 billion. q. are right. and-- you are right. caller: did you know the special bonus their corn to get to general motors? -- they are going to give to general motors? it left all of the old general motors behind. all of the plants with the environmental issues and the ones that were losing money, all the debt is secured bondholders was left. and the irs has determined you could leave the debt behind, but you have to take all of your operating losses forward.

and the appreciation you were not able to pay. in so they are born to give them $45 billion of tax credits that date a longbelong to the tx investors. they are stripping out the big asset. if you take the 50 billion they are reposal league opponents -- that htethey are supposedly goig to repay -- host: i understanyour point. caller: the interest rates -- if general motors was paying like a duck creditor to work, they would pay 32%. and that was the 15 billion per year. two years that is 30. they would be in the hole and 30

billion. host: thank you for making your point. the connection was not terrific, but we appreciate it. i.p.o. today will open as the wall street opens at 9:30 eastern time at $33 per share. today's ipo and the government bailout of gm over the past 17 months, your reaction to these developments. caller: good morning, steve. thank you for taking my call. you know what, the taxpayers always lose. i feel like any where you look it is a game. it does not matter if you are republican or democrat. i'd he a lot more skepticism unquestioning of power -- and questioning of power, which is a good thing.

and that i.p.o., how come it is not offered to me to buy? because i bailed them out. i did not get an offer. i am shut out, as a matter of fact. hedge fund is pretty interesting. i wonder why. analso, the people that will get the benefits, said it might be unions. i would say they have had plenty. thank you. host: this comments from monte. thank you for saving and industrial icon. with thousands of families, americans think you for a job well done. -- many americans thank you call

for a job well done. host: let's go over the story about how much price to sell sto sell and at what price. senior administration officials on wednesday saying they had worked closely with gm and the underwriters to set the price at $33 per share. the treasury department must now wait six months before it can sell more shares. people with direct matter of the knowledge estimate the government would make another significant sale of its holdings next year. one of the points in the article, offering unexpectedly high prices may bolster the underwriting bank, which has been the odds with the government. the underwriters, a huge group led by morgan stanley and jpmorgan chase, with bank of america and citigroup also

played major roles, will not receive a big payday from offering. the lead underwriters are set to receive roughly at be a 0.75%, low but bankers standards according to people with knowledge -- with knowledge of the matter. springfield, ohio, on the republican line. caller: i am calling for the american people. i believe, just like you said, the retirees that were collop those years should have a stock interest. i believe people should get back to support gm and buy their products. i also think their products clien line has to be worldwide . i found out that my vehicle was in sleep mode for four-wheel- drive. i also believe when mr. obama goes on his next trip, he should

charge nato for all the world peace-keeping he has done. we the people have to talk. we will take care of things, if they do not, for the children. we did people run this government. thank you for your time. host: the ipo, at headlin the hn "the detroit free press." caller: it is good for all of us. we do not work for general motors, but there are a lot of people do and lost their jobs and now are back to work. and she was like a banker and loaned the money and now he is giving it back. it is coming out suite for all of us.

everyone worked at general motors. all types of people work at general motors. this is working out sweet for all of us. this will be the best loan anyone has ever made. nothing is going to get completely better. if you have to look forward to the next crisis. -- you have to look forward to the loan crisis. this is a good sign. people should get propive propso obama. i saw this coming. i think any intelligent person did. host: thank you for the call. a different view on the twitter page. tgm should have been sold

off. i would not give a bailout. when visa when public its ipo raising $19.7 billion. general motors expected to raise $18.1 billion. kraft foods' $8.7 billion. ubs going public in november of 1999 raising $5.5 billion. -- ups by going public. becky is joining us. caller: i am tickled pink. that last lady was so good. through all of this there has been calling my president as socialist, but if this would have been done by the republicans as they would have

just given the money. they would have just given them the money and we would have never got a sent back. the way our president did it, he assured we would get our money pa back. even before he became president, he used to talk about wanting to have the new electric cars and things like that, modernizing our country in saving energy. he wanted it done by the american car companies. he bailed them out, and because of the way he did it, we are getting paid back. i do not ever remember getting paid back for anything. host: we heard yesterday from democratic leader, nancy pelosi, who will stay on in the next congress as the house minority leader. she was pictured leading the house democratic caucus room with steny hoyer.

below that john boehner tapped as the speaker. eric cantor will be the republican leader. we did not hear from them yesterday, but we will hear from them later today. it is official in alaska, lisa murkowski has one. ashe is the winner so far. only a 8500 ballots have been challenged, which means she would still lead by 82000 votes even in the unlikely event that all of the challenged ballots were set aside by the court. she was first appointed by her father, gov. mark caskeurkowski.

next is john joining us from cambridge, ohio on the republican line. and ccaller: al could general motors think that the american public after they went through a pick and choose bankruptcy expect us to have any confidence or police -- or belief they are better at this point? ordinary retirements were wiped out in a big way. anthis will not resolve the government debt -- the debt to the government and the military is in bad need of a replacement vehicles. they should be paid by a vehicle which a military vehicle production so that gm gets back to even, even though the public

got a bad deal. this applies for chrysler also. and at that point, there should be no availability of calling president obama as a banker, but there should be no availability for bailouts. host: thank you for your comments. the front page of "the washington post", "gm public offering will top $20 billion."

from the job paid oump page of e washington post" article maryann keller saying the success was built on the back of american taxpayers and the creditors who lost money in the bankruptcy settlement.

we're getting your reaction to all of this. the government giving back some of the money, the nearly $50 billion we invested during the last 17 months. lee joining us from westlake, ohio, on the independent line. caller: mike concern was pretty much addressed by the previous caller. -- my concern was pretty much addressed by the previous caller. there is a lot of schools in this country. call me once, but boy i tell you what, this country is getting to be a joke. thank you. host: democrats' line from washington. good morning. caller: as far as the last

caller was saying it is a joke, it is a joke because of the huge giveaway to the rich in tax breaks, the worst unfunded and the medicare part c and funded. this president is spending to try to get this company back on track. host: thank you for the call. alan from texas on the republican line. go ahead, please. caller: i wanted to comment about gm. and i think they should go ahead and sell the stock so we can get our money back. they do. -- thank you. host: joe saying on twittered that i what is good for americas

what is good for general motors is one of the most misunderstood quotes. caller: and i agree with what the one caller said about bush, but what is amazing about all of this is we go into a war in iraq where the bankers and a bunch of other people get rich. we bail out the banks because of the housing. who gets rich? the bankers. we bailout gm. who gets rich? president obama talking about how it is dirty foreign monimony that republicans are getting for their campaigns. who is getting it from general motors? china. people you are crazy. go back in the past. the old gm we lost $12 billion on that. we spent $1 billion to clean up old manufacturing plants that

had chemical waste in them. the epa is bragging because it created jobs? this is ridiculous. host: thank you for the call. this is headlines in "the houston chronicle." early bird arrival as early as 5:00 at the barnes and noble and houston, where president brushed signed books. he had a ground-breaking ceremony for the george w. bush institute which will be on that campus of the southern methodist university. jerry lewis and george herbert walker bush on the front page. escape the white house announcing they are among the 50 recipients of the presidential medal of freedom. the award will be given by president obama at a white house ceremony early next year. the final date is yet to be set.

tom joining us from ohio. welcome. thank you for joining us. gm officials stock offering today. what do you think? -- gm initial stock offering today. caller: i am 14 years air force. i am an inventor. i have ideas and inventions for america. we need to go back to saving bonds and invest in america's savings bonds and have them mature and have them pay something when you cash them in. you can get rid of social security and everything. i am and inventor. i have invented it things that could put out the 9/11 fire.

i have no money to do anything about it. we need to have all our inventor subsidized by the government so we can recover america. host: thank you for the call. appreciate it. a couple of other political notes, eric cantor fallin for change for what he calls a long march as the republicans take over after being in the minority for the past several years. sarah palin back in the news again. if she is out with her latest book and features on a program that will air december 9. barbara walters most fascinating people of 2010. >> i am looking at the lay of the land now and try to figure that out. is this a good thing for the country and family? if yo>> if you've run for

president, good to be barack obama? >> i believe so. -- if you run for president, could you beat barack obama? host: carl says this obscene deal that obama made with the unions will be a lot. the products gm is selling is not one that will create huge bias. next as scott joining us from janesville, wisconsin. independent line. caller: good morning. i think it is a good thing for a select group of people. i worked k for a parts

suppliers through general motors. i watched all of this pretty closely because it was going to affect me. all lot of people got money through buyouts for the employees from general motors. it seems like bush was the one that created tarp before obama took over to help them out. what surprised me, because he was supposed to be anti-union, and then not positive on that, but i think president bush was the one that initiated the tarp for general motors. acallerhost: what parts are madn ohio? caller: that were made?

it is close down. we made this seeding system for the tahoe -- the seating system for the tayhhoe and suv's. host: scott sent this to us. i cannot understand how americans can be against general motors returning to profitability with government help. next is brock from hastings, minnesota. good morning. caller: it is very curious to listen to the last callers. the one pointed out from james still that it was president bush back on december 18, 2008, first initiated the $14 billion going to general motors and chrysler, which started the fire out and

return to profitability forum, and yet it is all obama taking the credit report. what amazes me is how the union people are so pro-democrats that they do not look at what was going on when it was a republican initiative that save their jobs. not what obama did afterwards. that is all i have to say. thank you. host: a sign of the times for cities and states across the country. michael bloomberg expected to initiate thousands of layoffs next year. he will try to close in nearly $3.3 million budget deficit the city is facing next year.

there are related stories to what states are dealing with. this is from "the l.a. times." california facing an 8% to 10% tuition increase next year. california officials, and newmont and a new deficit. the latest california budget problem described by officials in both party as a calamity confirms what many officials wardlaw with the legislatures voted in october when the cat was initially closed. in no small part by the use of budget gimmickry. it has been worse and not only by the continued downturn of the california economy, but alsock,#

í i know that chris van hollen will make that fight based on values and based on reducing deficits, based on fighting for the middle class. i want to congratulate him on his new position. >host: nancy pelosi reelected as the democratic leader. the leadership team the same for the house democrats. the piece focusing on a long- time veterans of capitol hill and mike caplan.

while that is happening bopper -- we're joined live on the phone. thank you for being with us. as these new members come to washington and understand how their offices were, what else i think, as they prepare for the 112 congress? guest: the most interesting thing that has happened this week is they included an recession this year on members' rights -- responsibilities as employers. they're also taught ethics and basically the mechanics of how the hill works. host: the congressman who represented upstate new york for just over a year before he resigned has become the poster child or a poster boy of what

not to do as a member of congress and as the head of a staff can you explain what lessons congress takes from the allegations he faced? guest: it was pretty much prompted directly from the majority leader steady core year who will become the minority whip. he sent a letter in april after eric massa resigned in march. he asked them to include this session in the new member orientation because of the revelation that he had tolerated abuse and had nowhere to turn for months. it is what knonew member told mf you do not want to show up on the front page of the papers, do

not do it. host: the subcommittee announcing its condition, convicting charlie rangel of an ethics violation. the full committee will talk about the punishment later today. what are you a hearing about this? calleguest: as i have not heard much. they are pretty quiet about this. they only had to look down this report consequences of what can happen if you allegedly violates their rules. i did not hear that anyone was brought up by name, whether it was a congressman who was guilty of having an extramarital affair with a part-time staffer or charlie rangel, but they did

say if you do not want to be on the front page of the paper, if you do not want to be talked about on tv, do not do it. host: what about the incoming sophomores, reelected in a closely-watched race? are there lessons that's these freshman going into sophomore year of congress that can give these incoming members? guest: they have a panel called "if i knew then what i knew noow now." they all set a variation of things. really we are talking about members coming in to washington d.c. and not knowing the basic things like work to live and

how do i commute to work. how long does it take? one member said he did not know you cannot drive in the hov lane. they also told him do not let it go to your head. did not let title of congressmen or congressmaresswoman go to yor head. host: this was delayed tuesday, but looks like the class photograph will take today. the weather looks sunny and mild so no rain in the forecast. guest: they should be out on the capitol steps and abo 20 minutes. host: thank you. we are going back to the issue we're focusing on, gm. the initial public offering today. chrysler yet to offer an i.p.o. as its bailout continues. chrysler left by its rival.

the big three starting to look more like the big two as chrysler address further behind. the newly issued stock will be publicly traded for the first time. as product lineup still in the early changes over an overhaul. -- early stages oandof anof an overhaul. caller: good morning. i am calling because i wanted to make a comment on this supposes i.p.od i.p.o. from what i understand, there are pre-elected people that will get this offering of stock. host: which is typical of an i.p.o..

caller: i am confused because i do not understand if it is public, why shouldn't anybody be able to get the stock? just to further my point -- host: it will be public today when it is listed. the ipo price was $33, but it can certainly open much higher. caller: the way i am percent from the local news is that it is the pre-selected people that get this offering prior to today. those people will get it today. maybe i am confused. it goes to further my point that they took the building in detroit, the renaissance center, and entered it into their headquarters, which was a public building. it seems to me that the moneys we did people who have all the money, keep taking from the people -- it seems to me that's

it is the people who have all of the money that keep taking it from the people who do not. host: thank you. there was a headline in "the washington post" saying saddam pal gets mercy. host: a couple of more calls on

general motors and we will be joined by a new member of congress in just a couple of minutes, mike kelly from western pennsylvania. we're joined by eight a caller from michigan. good morning. caller: what i wanted to say is that a business is run by the administration. there are the ones that made the decision to put their but where they are at. that is what put them where they are apt. and they want to sit there and say it was all bush or obama, horse crap. it was not up to obama or bush. the companies and administration allowed that to happen. that is all i have to say about that matter. host: you can also join the conversation online at twitter .com/wj. general motors bailout, yes, it

was worth it is what one twitter viewer writes. caller: i am calling to say i am happy with the state general motors is in. all i can say is that the president has been operating in the right way. he operates on truth, fax, and honesty. -- facts and honesty. the freshmen that are in congress right now have a lot to learn. they are in school, and obama is the teacher. host: thank you. congress will be out next week for the thanksgiving call the day, and coming back right after that the scheduled meeting between leaders of the house and senate is now set for november 30. when we come back, one of the

new members of the 112th congress, mike kelly, from western pennsylvania. we're back in just a moment. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] >> the house ethics committee

meets today to decide on any sanctions for charlie rangel, found guilty on ethics charges. follow the process of look at it his career in the u.s. house of mine at the c-span video library. watch what you want, when you want. >> like all men of great tips, when they give up power, even though they may give it up for principle reasons, they hanker for it the moment they give it up. >> edmund morris examines the final years of tr's life. that is sunday at 8:00 on "q & a." >> in texas are women are

still not able to receive abortions. >> this week part to a roby wade argued in 1972. it is still considered one of the court's most controversial decisions. listen at 6:00 eastern on c-span radio. nationwide on x and channel 132 and online at c-span radio. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to introduce my kelly. welcome. your first appearance. let me ask you, why did you run for congress? calleguest: a number are reason. children and grandchildren. the other was a loss of the dealership. general motors went into a bankruptcy and all of a sudden i got a phone call asking if i wanted to be part of the new

general motors? they said only and is the new plan. he would no longer be a cadillac -- you would no longer be a cadillac dealer. they said under the new plan you would be a chevrolet dealer. at that point i started to wonder if something like that can happen to mike kelly, anything can happen to anywhere, anytime. it was a wake-up call. i had always been interested in politics. i was so busy raising my children and being involved in the community -- most of us are the same way, we did not realize how quickly the things could change. it got me really involved. i said this is the same challenge that my mother and father went through and the depression. i think it is a called action for our generation. i said i'd better get involved

and become totally committed to this and make sure my children and grandchildren have the same opportunities that i have had. host: your visit comes today as a general motors announces its ipo. in hindsight, based on your personal experiences and what gm is dealing with today, was it a wise investment? guest: i cannot answer for that, because as a dealer i was not involved in that decision. my concern at the time when the market drop by 40% overnight, the current model that they were working with the trunk so quickly. the availability to fund all of those things and the three freew of cash when away so quickly, for me, i still had other businesses, because after being

there for 56 years we had 14,000 people and our owner bank so we establish a great relationship. my question is what could i do for the relationships with my customers in my dealership, it was so removed from the that i was not involved at that point. it is a difficult question for an independent basbusiness pers. no one asked me how they could help. business is fine but we are interestin our 57th year. my son brendan is a general manager. my son colin is a salesman. my brother is a used car salesman. i have a lot of people that have been with me for a real long time. i have been to their kids baptism, first communion, and

weddings, and unfortunately some funerals also. when you have that type of an organization, you pretty much do you can whether anything as long as you have the right leadership and people are looking at the same goals and not getting distracted. business is fine right now. we're working hard, and that is all we can keep doing. host: when the final tally comes in, how much did you spend and how much outside money was spent and how much did your opponent spent? guest: certainly a much bigger number then i thought it would be. when i first started to run people said this will take a lot of your time. they said you have to be able to get your name out there. i said i understand branding and time because i work six days a week now. that was not a problem. the money is a problem. looking back on it right now, one of the things we need to look at it as a country is there is a lot of good candidates out there that would be great if

they could get to washington. kila different jini and everyone else on the district is that my name was on the ballot. we are the same people. getting there and having the time and money to get there is daunting. you have to look at how many people could serve in public office that cannot get there because of the monetary issues? it is daunting. total numbers, i cannot give you the final total. i put a lot of my own money into it. my wife and i sat down and talk about it. we looked at investments. we said the best thing to do right now to protect our children and grandchildren is to make sure we get people representing ourselfves. when the dust settles, i will be able to answer that, but to me it was a lot of money. host: your opponent raised about $2 million. this is at mid-october, so the

final tally is not in. you raise $1.1 million. millions of dollars expected an outside money. this is one congressional district in a relatively low- cost media district. guest: again, printing. you have to get your name out there. -- again, branding. there is about 90 miles and between us. there are 650,000 people. there are a lot of doors to have to knock on. the only way to do is through media and nailing and radio and through tv. i do not know how else you would reach all of the spokes. there is not enough time in the day. my wife would get up every morning around 6:00 and get home around midnight. we would go out and knock on doors and talk to people. we would go to country's fears

and mainstream in sidestreets. -- country fairs and main streets, and stidide streets. it was exciting to see so many people be so involved with someone they really did not know before, as someone they had confidence in and trusted. to me it was a very humbling experience. now the pressure is on. you cannot go back to that district and let these people down. so overwhelming charge that i have all the time is to not let us down. we have been disappointed before, be tried before, i do not let us down. you will see me. i will be in the same places. i will be totally accessible, and i think that is the way we have to be. host: mike kelly of western

pennsylvania. we will get to your phone calls in just a moment. and you can join the conversation online at the twitter.com/wj or send us an e- mail. guest: i was on the school board reporfor four years. host: we will go to your phone calls. good morning. caller: i have a bone to pick. everybody blames the union. i have been this before. without the unions, i would not have a job. i was a good employee, and i deserved what i got for working hard, but honestly it looks like they want to go back to sweatshops, child labor, and all of this.

people forget what about the union we would not have no social security, compensations. business does not care what you do. that is all i have to say. host: thank you for the call. mike kelly? guest: the most important thing to all of us is jobs. are we going to have enough jobs for all of those members of the union? he makes the point about what has happened in this country. it is not about unions, business owners, it is about americans working together to solve problems. i believe that can be done. where i live wwe made a real road cars and we made steelheae.

there is no disconnect between the business owner and the worker. there is a team. it does not matter if you are republican or a democrat. we're all americans. the upside to this is phenomenal. people are on the sidelines not because they want to be but they are not sure when they can jump back in the game. i would say this to you, nobody wants to see the unions more solid and people back at work more than i do. the uaw built a lot of the cars i sell. the jobs aren't born to all of us. -- the jobs are important to all of us. the idea is to get americans back to work and give americans back to feeling good about the economy and leadership and able to make the decision to go ahead and make that investment whether it be an investment in a car or house. host: mike kelly from the third

congressional district and pennsylvania. graduated from notre dame. what position did you play? guest: i played a lot of positions but spent most of my time in the infirmary. i met alan page. when you look at that scene, it was one of the best college defense teams ever. ended up going back to the offensive line. really the best place for me to be. unfortunately the time went by quickly. my time spent at notre dame was a great french ships i made and the lessons i learned about life that your next play could be your last. it was a great life lesson at an early time in my life. . .

i just wanted to ask if congress

could people up -- if the handling of his dealership was political in any way. i was watching c-span one morning a couple of years ago. it had the automotive writer from the detroit free press. i asked him if he had heard about the closing of the dealerships being political. he said 90% of the dealerships that were closed did contribute to the republican party. guest: i cannot answer that. i have friends that had lost their dealership. i got mine back through arbitration. i do have friends who did not get there is back.

a lot of good, third, fourth generation. i do not know how they decided who would be open and who would be closed. i have heard about that, that some were targeted, but i would hate to make that assertion. one thing we do not want to do is keep on with me for a monster under the bed. how do we fix it? to i think it was right? absolutely not. -- do i think it was right? when someone goes out of business because of someone else's decision, that is wrong. in the united states, are you kidding me? i think we all make it or lose

it on our raton. you have the chance to succeed, but you also have the risk of failure. there are some things out there that you cannot control. what happened with the closing of these dealerships, totally out of their control, it is a shame for some of them, but they should have had the opportunity to make it or fail on their own. host: what kind of control would you like to see on the committees that you serve on? guest: certainly, with 85 incoming freshmen, you are probably not going to get the chance to serve on a a committee. i am focusing instead on how i can best serve the country. let's be realistic about it.

as an incoming freshman, there is an awful lot to learn. certainly, a lot of us are overelmed by it. at the end of the day, once again leadership positions, then we will it is able to-- on-- but is host: but is there one committee that you would most like to serve on? guest: i think oversight. oftentimes we get overzealous and 20 people to hold people in check. we need to look at who knew what and go back and terror that process apart. the same thing we do in our business every week. what decisions were made, did they help us, did they hurt us?

maybe we just took our eye off the ball. i like oversight very much, but there are a lot of committees that make a difference to the country and certainly pennsylvania. host: we are introducing new house members. mike kelly is from pennsylvania. new hampshire. next phone call. caller: 1 car guide to the other, i have been in business 22 years -- one car guy to another, i have been in business 22 years. do you really think that customers will want to buy an electric car? guest: from one car guide to another, we need to make sure that we sell them something that

they want. the market is driven by demand. certainly, while there are folks out there who think that they know better, the average american knows what they can afford, what they need. right now, the best scenario is, the market makes those terminations. i love technology and all of these opportunities, but the truth is, electric cars do not make sense for most of us. does it appeal to some of them? sure, but i do not want to have to give you $7,500 back as an incentive to make that purchase. we know what the popular cars are. people buy cars that they can afford, cars that make sense. but at the end of the day, they buy cars that they can afford. let's allow the market to decide

what we should be driving. host: doug from maryland. this is an open-ended question -- guest: i think they better. certainly, people on november to may decision out there and they send a loud and clear message to everyone serving them, this is a constitutionally-limited government, a government that serves the people. we are alert, we are awake, and we are keeping our eye on the ball. also, accountability. please hold all of us accountable. if we told you something, make sure that we do it. host: do you believe in term limits? guest: yes, i think most of the

country would support that. in order to change things, we would need a constitutional amendment, and i do nothing that is going to happen. but if we go back all the way to george washington, he is the one that wanted to limit his own term. i think most people who are serving today had done other things in their lives and would want to get back to that. this is something i feel i need to do right now, but i would like to get back to my car dealership one day. voters, you had the chance to limit anyone's term that you wanted. if you are not keeping your eye on the ball, -- having the right to vote is a great privilege,

but it also comes with great responsibility. host: will you have self-imposed term limits? guest: because it is delayed a two-year term, three terms would make sense, but i have not even been sworn in yet. for me, personally, three terms would be great. again, i want to reserve that until i get in there and actually see what the challenges are, how i can best serve the people that elected me. host: what is the personal transition like for mike kelly? guest: i have been through an awful lot in my life, i pretty much know who i am. people often ask me the best

thing that happened in my life. getting married and having the opportunity to raise children in a country like america, you look back at the things that made a difference in your life, certainly my mother, grandparents, teachers, coaches, religious leaders, everyone has an influence on your life. i am where i think i need to be. personally, this is the chance to give back to a country that has given so much to me. host: what about finding an apartment, house, setting up staff? guest: living here is daunting. where i come from, i could buy a house for almost what they pay here in one month. that is a little bit far- fetched. i have kids in the area, so i can bunk with them for a while.

early on, i will use the added of measure twice, cut once -- adage of measure twice, cut once. the other thing is, i have two offices. one at home and one in washington. it is not what you know and who you know, but the other side of that, it is not what you know, is who knows you. i want to make sure i have folks who are working for one purpose, to serve the district and to serve the country. highlyhe people who are qualified and are in the same direction to get everything fixed. host: phone call from centerville, virginia. good morning.

caller: thank you for taking my call. i own a business. we have nine employees. host: what is your business? guest: we do renovations. fairly large ones. we survived the downturn. during that time -- i never worked harder in my life than in the past five years. we actually made money, we are home financed, so we used a se equity line. on election day, we got a letter from the bat saying that our equity line of credit was not available anymore. now we are scrambling to keep our business going. we are going to survive, and because we did a loan last

year, our taxes are through the ceiling. mr. kelly, i know you are excited about being here in washington, d.c., you sound like that, but you need to get a hold of these other 85 people and tell them, please get something done for small business. i feel as invisible as can be. we are alone. you ask the question this morning, why people are calling in and they're not happy for general motors? i am happy for them but they spent $860 billion on roads, stimulus packages, political bodies, all of that other crap. i have 16 families that i have to deal with with a paycheck and i have no reserve, no safety net. guest: thank you for the call. you are not alone. none of us are alone.

i know about try to get through tough times. i remortgaged my house in order to put money back into the business. i understand your frustration. have confidence in this new group. they really do feel your pain because most of them came from the same situation you are in. there is nobody in there with their heads in the clouds. at least the folks that i have talked to, we understand what america needs, jobs, confidence in leadership, confidence in the direction the country is going. i deal with the same thing with auto dealers. banks did not know what to do because they have been given a new set of regulations. 500 pages before the rules are written? who are we kidding? we have to make it easier for

guys like you to get money quicker. host: next call from ron. jericho, vermont. caller: now that the dollar has been devalued by the federal reserve, it looks to me as a way to have a fire sale on america and give some of its assets to big oligarchs and whatever. if we had tariffs here, we may have trade wars. i would be interested if the congressman would be willing to sponsor a bill that would give workers the right to intellectual property. right now, intellectual property

is what drives the economy. take ibm. they have services, manufacturing, but they make more revenue from intellectual property than anything else. guest: we are all in favor of free trade as long as it is free trade. as well, put rules in place that everyone needs to follow and then hold people's feet to the fire. a lot of the things we are facing right now are because of ill-thought out burdens put on businesses. i do not know many companies who want to leave america. we have the finest workers in the world, and we know it comes down to education. someone with a high-school education is 1.9 times more

efficient. we are looking at america stronger. we have done some things in the past, we have taken our eye off the ball, and we have not held people accountable for not playing by the rules. as far as intellectual property, there is a lot of shared technology out there in the world today. certainly, in my business, i have seen how that works. there is great opportunity for all bus. free-trade but fair trade. -- great opportunity for all of us. host: third congressional district, longtime held by tom ridge. let us take a look at the election results. you received 55% of the vote. why did you win, why did she

lose, and what lessons are there for you two years from now? guest: there was a lot of strong wind behind the backs of republicans and against incumbents. there was nothing that was zip code specific in this race. everything was the same. it came down to representation. people ask me, how would you like to be referred to? representative kelly. not congressman kelly. people are looking for people to represent them in congress. this is not a criticism of the congress, but the perception was someone from northwest pennsylvania went to washington and started behaving as if they were raised in san francisco. she voted her conscience on

these things, but at the end of the day, the people who sent you expect you to represent their core beliefs and values. there were a lot of things that did not make sense to people in that district. someone like mike kelly, a common sense guy who knows where he came from and where he is going, that was the difference at the end of the day. host: a comment on twitter -- guest: we do not need to increase tax rates on anybody. the answer is tax revenue, not raising tax rates. where do revenues come from? helping businesses, help the working force. the ability of people to go out and make decisions with what they want to do with their investment.

believe everything the way it is right now. we need to give people confidence to move forward. raising taxes will not make that happen. we are talking about tax revenue, not tax rates. the only way we can do that is to make businesses sound and solid again. when 15 million americans wake up every morning with no place to work, that is wrong. you look out there, there is no reason for us to be where we are, other than the fact that we took our eye off the ball. we forgot what made us great. we have the natural resources, intellectual properties, we have everything in place. the only thing we do not have is confidence. host: our conversation is with mike kelly, one of the new

members of the congress. he is a graduate of notre dame university, the owner of a car dealer. still selling cadillacs? guest: absolutely. there were referred to as the standard of the world. there was a reason for that. general motors has some great products out there. i know they are having a stock offering today. host: are you going to buy some stock? guest: absolutely. i have probably $7 million worth of stock on our dealership. host: what about hyundai?

guest: they are a great dealer. my experience with them has been great. they are a very accessible company to talk to. their management team is very receptive to this. when people ask me about hyundai and kia, i tell them to follow made to ala. where we are building thousands of these cars. they are turning out absolutely fabulous automobiles to serve the american people. i feel blessed. i happen to have been blessed by god. a lot of it is providential. we have had to work hard. host: lynn from glendale,

arizona. caller: i am a registered democrat but i do vote independent. i come from a very sensitive family. i have a grandmother who predicted president kennedy 10 years before that happened. then my mother predicted carter as president five years before it happened. i am looking at you and you are not going anywhere. you need to keep going. you look to me to be the next president. maybe we can give it eight years. i am so proud to be talking to you. the irish catholic background. i think we come from the same place. this is the first i have ever heard of you. you are a very intelligent man. you are headed in the right direction. don't let them correct you.

you are a family man. -- corrupt you. you are a car dealership man, you are a salesman, sell yourself, sell the country. do you understand what i am saying? guest: thank you for that. i am very flattered, really. i am a young gun here. it has been a privilege. truly, i have been blessed by god for this opportunity. my parents were very good with us. they raised us the right way. it is just a privilege to be an american. i am humbled to be able to serve

right now. we are going to be flat level best we can and we are not going to let the american people down. this will not be easy to get done. i have always said, we are going to need a strong stomach and backbone to do the things we have to do to get it back on track. we will do it, and at the end of the day, america will be stronger for it. this was one of my concerns as i ran. there are a lot of seniors. i want those folks, who have done so much, who have sacrificed so much, to be able to go to sleep at night knowing that everything will be all right and be able to wake up knowing that something was not taken away from them. it is a challenge, absolutely. we are very much aware of it. the humility that i see with

these of incoming freshmen will keep us on the path. there is so much to be done right now. host: let me bring up a had 9 from today. karl rove giving a message to the gop. from today.ne guest: well, we are confident, but we're not cocky. i do not think anyone is cocky. the president is the president. we want to make sure the country goes forward in the right direction. you want to make sure the folks that sent us to the capital have faith in us. what we need right now is trust. i know in the people's house we are going to work as hard as we can to keep that trust. it is their house, not ours. we are merely sitting in chairs

representing all of them. adviceeciate mr. rove's but we are looking to make america better today. in two years' time, people can have another chance to make the decision on who they want to lead them. host: the congress says that they will want to reduce the retirement age down the road to increase savings. would you support that? guest: the people that i represent, they worked all their lives and they thought that there would be a safety net for them. again, government overstepping and doing what they should not have been done.

host: where would you make the cuts? guest: we need to look to the future. the people who are nearing social security, they need to have a guarantee. will there be changes in the future? when you look at the actuaries, what is happening, -- the term is an adult conversation -- but we need to be more realistic about what we can and cannot do. i think we need to look at everything. we need to talk about everything intelligently and make sure that what we told people in the past is there for them. there are opportunities in the future to look at things differently, but that is something that i want to hear from everyone. i understand the health care we provide for the folks that work with me. i understand that. $0.67 out of every dollar that

we were bringing in from taxes in my town was already spoken for. host: that is the same for the federal government. but if you are in your 30's, 40's, you tell that generation that you have to retire in your 70's. do you support that as something that could social security in the future? guest: the people that pay in the to be able to draw out. that program has been played with too much. certainly, one of the realistic ends to it are people are living longer, healthier, and certainly that is something that we will have to look at. i cannot say today that i will support it, but i am interested in listening to what everyone has to say. host: next phone call from california. good morning.

caller: congratulations, i like the way you talk. you talk with sincerity, not like a politician. i just wanted to say, i really like the way you talk. the word confidence, literally means with faith, and i think that is what the american people have in you right now. i am sure being in business, you have seen your own personal failures. what we need in congress right now are people who actually experienced life, who held a job, who have been in business, walked out of college, done nothing, and try to run the country. i agree with the former caller,

you can be president if you continue with your attitude, your concern, your common sense approach to real problems. guest: thank you. i pretty much know who i am after being on the earth for 62 years. i have had more defeats than victories. everybody gets knocked down. it is the ability to get back up. i mean this sincerely to everyone listening and watching. there is a strong wind blowing through the country. the people that you have sent to represent you are going to do exactly that. as i said earlier, if you are not satisfied with the way that you are represented, there are ways to get a hold of us. we want to be held accountable. all of us ran on the same idea,

common sense thinking, let's get it fixed. i do not just want to talk about hope and change. i want to get these problems fixed. we came to washington to get to work. for folks like you, stay with us, and we are going to get through this together. america has been through much tougher. we are actually facing our brightest days. we are in tough times, but it is the tough times that make you stronger. host: back to the deficit. jim hines asks -- host: again, going back to specifics, where do you cut the deficit? guest: we have to look at the process. we have to tear everything apart and see what is working, what is

not working. i tried to relate it back to my own business and my family. when you have expenses that are so over-the-top that nobody can understand how you are going to pay for it, you better tear it apart. if somebody pulls into my automobile dealership and comes in with a problem, we doot scrap it, we find a broken apart and fix the car. right now, there are parts that are broken. specifically, we need to find out what is wrong, fix it, and put in what is right. we need a smaller government that is not so overzealous. we are trying to feed a furnace that is too big. we have gone over the top. we are going to tear it apart

and completely redo it. i know i am repeating myself. i certainly could not do that in my house. we cannot do it in government either. host: valerie in baltimore. good morning. caller: good morning. of youry, the name guests? host: mike kelly from pennsylvania. caller: if you could repeal the health care law, wouldn't it be true to yourself for you to allow us to have the health care that you are afforded? if that was not the case, would you go out and buy private insurance?

guest: there is no reason for anyone to get anything different from anyone else. i have always paid for my own health care. i have health care for the associates their work with me. we know health care is important but we also know certain people get perks and privileges. i do not think anybody should be given -- i will use the term cadillac plan. but why? why should my pension as a public official be any different from anyone else's? why should my health care be any different? no, level across the board. i do not want a special health care program that is not the same for the people that live in this country. that is wrong, it sends the wrong message to folks. on my part, i do not need that. i have always paid my own way. i am with you. i do not think any public

official should get anything above what the average person has. i do not need a cgressional plan. i did not come here for health care. i do not need a pension plan. i did not come for the pay, by the way. i do not know how much i will make. that was not the concern. it was how much i could bring to the table and make a difference. i know there are items that people think about -- listen, i have always had to do it on my own, i never had anyone pick up the tab for me. i certainly don't think the american taxpayers should be paying for something above what they could be paying for themselves. i think the congressional health care plan should be the same as everyone else's. why should it be different? host: mike kelly represents the

third district in pennsylvania. thank you very much for being here. please come back. laura murphy will be joining us to talk about those pat downs and security procedures that are now underway in airports across the country. a news update from nancy calo. >> the new start treaty is the focus of the white house meeting today. the president will hear from the current secretary of state and defense, as well as william cohen and william perry, and national-security adviser scowcroft. an update on undecided elections. minnesota republicans are going to court over the governor's race. the gop wants to file a petition with the state supreme court,

making sure that they followed proper procedures for reconciliation. the election is headed for a likely reach out later this month. congressional critics are pressing president obama to fire the special inspector general for afghanistan reconstruction for incompetence and mismanagement. only the president can dismiss an inspector general. he testified later today before a sesenate oversight committee. -- testifies later today before a senate oversight committee. >> "book tv" goes to the 29th annual miami book fair international. live all weekend. this saturday, two in as

american history tv offers a day-long symposium on the civil war. prominent historians giving new perspective on the domestic impact of the war. coverage begins at 9:00 eastern. host: we want to welcome laura murphy, as the washington legislative director for the aclu. thank you for being here. this headline basically says it all, "the denver post" -- the head of the tsa testified on capitol hill yesterday. here is a portion of what he had to say. >> if your question is do i understand the sensitivities of people? the answer is yes.

will i change the policies? my answer is no. latest efforts have forced us to do this. i will not change policies. host: how do we deal with safety, security of passengers, and your civil-rights? guest: they are not mutually exclusive. we are never going to have a system that is 100% foolproof. we have to make decisions as a nation to select programs that are effective. the aclu has concerns about the effectiveness and about civil liberties, when it comes to these pat downs, and when it comes to these body scanners that are a virtual strip search. since the end of october, the tsa has been involved in very

aggressive pat downs. a lot of people have found them to be offensive. even some senators on the panel had been subjected to these pat downs and felt uncomfortable by them. we think the tsa should select the least intrusive measures but also understand people have a concern about their privacy as well as safety. host: what would those measures be? guest: first of all, we have to understand that what we have in place is not foolproof. the body scanners do not detect liquid, plastics that are held close to the body. the christmas day bomber who had something in his underpants. these scanners may not detect that sort of thing. we need to have equipment that

we think is really going to protect people and search them carefully and observe their privacy. host: if you look at the patterns of safety getting on the plane, there was the shoe bomber, we have to take our shoes off, the underwear bomber, and now this. it seems they are figuring out how to avert the problem and keep passengers safe. guest: yes, but they are in a reactive mode. in 2004, there were some russian women who put some explosive devices under their coats. then the tsa adopted an intrusive pat down. american fliers became outraged. they backed away from that. we cannot get into a situation where we have the scrutiny of the moment that is reactive. we need scrutiny that is

thorough, fair, but effective. i do see on the part of tsa this reactionary thing. as you said, first it was shoes, then body grouping, we are back on that again. we have to make up our mind. a lotf the security that takes place at airport happened well in advance of arriving at the airport. we have to improve cargo screening, baggage screening. we cannot have a bunch of machines that cost $200,000, an additional $150,000 to train people on, that effectively will not find the underwear bomber. host: the headlines today showing some of the backlash about these new regulations. the question is how you thread the needle between safety and security and also avoid being

treated like a criminal. >> right, they are very invasive. i have gone through them, members of congress have, they are upsetting. women have to understand, if you wear a dress, they have permission to put their hand up your dress. their breasts will be touched. men have to understand that their fans will be turned down at the waistband to look at things being held underneath the clothes. this is upsetting for people who have been victims of sexual assault, people who do not believe in this type of thing because of religious beliefs. we have a complicated system and we have to ask yourself, is this the most effective way to ensure our security? host: these are some pictures from denver airport. again, how do you thread the

needle, how do you make sure that someone does not have a bomb hidden in a private part, which has happened? what is the solution? guest: people need to understand what the rules are before they get to the airport. i do not think tsa has done an adequate job of telling people about these screening devices. there have been questions raised about the safety of these scanners. airline pilots are concerned about repeatedly going through these screening devices and being exposed to radiation. i think it is a difficult challenge. i am not saying we have the perfect solution but i can tell you machines who do not find what the underwear bomber had are not solutions either. host: we will get to your phone calls. you can join the conversation by twitter or by sending us an e-

mail. anita from mississippi. good morning. caller: good morning. this is my first time calling. i thought you all were discriminating against mississippi. this is what i have to say. i have no problem with the path down, no problem going through the machine. i have a problem with people who abuse that authority. i flew from washington, d.c. into mississippi. the young lady told me, you have to go through a pat down. she said i had to go to the machine. i was fine with all of that. i went through the machine, i turned around. i turned the way they told me to turn. then when i came through, she said she had to pat me down. i missed my flight because of that. i even had to take my bra off.

i exposed almost all of my body thinking that this would rush me through and i still missed my flight. she was not nice about it at all to the point where i sat down and i called my congressman. i got her name and that number. i have no problem going through the machine. this particular person was mean. she was not nice at all. guest: the aclu has received over 400 complaints in the last two weeks. if you go to aclu.org, we are looking at what we can do.

tsa employees are not being properly trained on these scanners. the inspector general said these individuals are not being properly trained, so incidences like this one can happen. they are under a lot of pressure. it is a tedious job. they are concerned about their exposure to radiation. they are concerned about whether or not management will back them up when they do intrusive searches. there needs to be much more public education, more training, and we need rules and guidance that are publicly published that tell us what the tsa is and is not allowed to do, and also gives the public records. we do not believe the tsa has adequate complaint mechanisms, and that is why the aclu is

being overrun with complaints. host: a follow up on that. when e-mail asks why there are not changing gloves between pat downs. they could be spreading disease. guest: when you are talking about millions of travelers the day, you have 400 of these scanning machines, virtual strip searches. they are not in every airport. you have crushes of people try to get through security. i do not understand the situation with the gloves. i would urge viewers to complain to their members of congress, but also to fill out the aclu.org tsa complaint form. host: next phone call from a landfill lakes. -- lando lakes.

caller: what about people with disabilities? i have a disability where i have a pouch on the outside of my body. i would never go near any of these searches. it would be modifying. i know i am not the only one in this situation. -- it would be mortifying. how is it going to work if these people do not even have proper training, the mail before about not changing gloves? what will be the protocol for people like me with disabilities? asked that glad you question. mastectomy scars, pinel implants, all of that can be

seen by these scanners. we need to make sure that these images are not retained. in the u.s. marshals service, for example, images were retained, thousands of images of people going through courthouses. we need to make sure tsa is not keeping these images. people with disabilities have also been complaining to the aclu, especially if they are in wheel chairs, they are going through extraordinary delays being patted down, being separated from their wheelchair. we are taking your complaints and we are analyzing them, but the aclu alone does not have the power to amend the government practices. we want to work with congress to look into tsa practices to see that they are respective of people's civil liberties.

as i said before, that is not mutually exclusive. host: we have some new followers on our twitter page. we urge all of you to log on. guest: is interesting -- it is interesting. you are not getting the same level of screening at railways than you do at airports. i think railways, metro systems, buses, cruise ships, are just as vulnerable as airports. we need a method that is just as consistent that allows people to understand what it is they have to do as a condition of traveling.

that allows passengers to have more of a bill of rights in that context. host: mary poses this question and point of view. guest: i do not know that answer. i know there is sometimes a revolving door in these agencies where high-level officials will be hired to, really, sell equipment and contractors and services -- contractor services. i think there needs to be more insight. the house says they need more insight. this is one area where we need more insight so there are no abuses.

host: joe calling us from upstate new york, rome, new york. caller: thank you for taking my call. i happen to be a psychotherapist. i have not heard any discussion of individuals who have been molested, people who have been mistreated. people speak about disabilities but they often forget about mental health issues. i can imagine many of my own patients who would feel they have no choice, whether it is being exposed through the machine, have anyone touch them at all. when you come to an airport, nobody knows what your background is, what you are going through. i have not heard this addressed by anyone. i have been an advocate for 40 years in my own practice what i

consider impartial parity for mental health individuals. i think this needs to be seriously addressed. we have a ball girl people who are amending their lives. vulnerable people who are amending their lives. people are trying to cope with their lives and they have to go through this type of thing. i certainly hope the aclu and other organizations, many of which we belong to ourselves, will continue to advocate. this has gotten out of hand. i have people who are frightened. guest: it makes complete sense. one of the things you should

know is the tsa director says there is a policy not to search which isunder 12, reassuring in one sense but a concern to another. how do you stop a terrorist from putting materials on a child? i think we need these random checks. we need machines we believe are going to be secure. i am not sure the machines we have are safe and secure and affective. it seems like this whole practice needs a better explanation and complete process so people can understand what they are getting into and what their recourse is when they feel their rights have been abused.

host: the genie on the republican line. pennsylvania. welcome to the conversation. -- jeannie on the republican line. caller: i was just wondering if computer scientists and these are people, they could just spray something on someone and if they had a bomb, it would show it. then everybody could just walk through. host: so they just blow up and we watch them? i am not quite sure -- the bomb would go off in the screening area? caller: no, on the person. guest: i think she is making

that suggestion in humor. that would be a civil liberties crisis of even more magnitude, to be sprayed without any due process. i cannot get behind that idea, but i think they were making a humorous attempt. host: next phone call from detroit. caller: good morning. i am a permanent fan of c-span. host: we are cut to hear that. -- glad to hear that. caller: as long as you keep on doing when you are doing, i will. i could be giving away a billion dollar business idea here. how about hazmat uniforms?

everybody is talking about increasing airport sizes. you can increased them by making dressing rooms. guest: there is another idea that would be challenging. who would bear the cost of these hazmat uniforms? people are struggling. the aclu is concerned about passenger safety, preventing terrorism. we are all struggling with this, but i think we can still do a better job than we are doing right now by having a process for complaints, having an explanation about why we are using machinery that, for example, does not scream for what is in body cavities. there was -- screen for what is in concavities.

saudi official whoist officia was found with things in his body cavity. host: are these scans, full body pat downs unconstitutional? guest: the courts have ruled there is room for something known as administrative searches. if you are in an apartment building and your landlord needs to get in to make sure your kitchen is not on fire, these kinds of searches have been allowed, and courts have given latitude to airports for preventing explosives from occurring at the airport, in danger in the aviation safety

and security. -- endangering aviation safety and security. there are a couple of lawsuits out there challenging tsa on the ability to do this. host: we are talking about tsa pat downs and scanners across the country. a demonstration next wednesday. 42 million travelers on thanksgiving day. guest: the aclu supports people's first amendment rights to protest what we are not endorsing that particular protest. the protest is just an example

of the outrage. tsa needs to be more sensitive to tell lovell of other rich people are feeling. host: congressman duncan hunter expressing that anger yesterday. >> frustration is developing at the airports, and it should. frequent-flier is are upset about getting these frequent doses of radiation. parents are upset about being forced to have their children be repeated or have their children touched by an unrelated adult. there is already plenty of security at the airport but now we are going to spend $300 million to install 1000 scanners. this is much more about money than it is about security. the former secretary of homeland security michael chertoff represents rapiscan is selling these pieces of equipment to the government' to his former

employer. the american people should not have to choose between having full body radiation for a very embarrassing and intrusive pat as ifvery time they applfly, they were common criminals. we need more common sense on this. host: yesterday on the house floor, john duncan of tennessee. guest: this is really a bipartisan issue. ron paul issued legislation yesterday. the commerce committee yesterday was greatly bipartisan in nature. the aclu is a 90-year-old nonpartisan organization committed to defending the bill of rights, civil rights, and we want to work with any member of congress who is concerned about this issue to make sure that we are safe and free.

we can be both. we do not think the routine use of these scanners -- first of all, the science has not been independently verified for their safety. second, they do n show what is in body cavities. third, as congressman duncan said, are we getting to the point where we are willing to spend every dime the goal of preventing a terrorist attack when we know we cannot prevent every attack? host: laura murphy started working for the aclu in 1993. mike is on the republican line. florida. caller: i know she will probably not like to hear my point of view, but she has talked a lot about the right issues, people

are being forced through a radiation tunnel. then if we do not accept that, we have to go through a groping process. we have 2 million people flying every day in america. 2 millio people every day are being subjected to a process that is no longer effective because the terrorists change their tactics. the body cavity issue is clearly an issue. we have to get down to the basic thing that will fix this. that is called profiling. i know it is politically incorrect to do, especially for the aclu, but that is what we need. we do not need to subject to million americans, who are not the problem.

let's let 2 million people off the hook and get a few people that we can profile and target, focus on those guys, i keep them off of airplanes, and out of america. guest: i agree with 90% of what you said. the problem i have is with the profiling. i do not think it is effective. most of the profiling people are doing is based on surname and appearance. most of the muslims in the united states is african- american. i am african-american, seventh generation american, and i was stopped at the airport in geneva on the way back to the u.s. and a woman asked me, you have the last name murphy, are you sure you are not from ontario or morocco? i said, i am the seventh generation u.s. citizen. she said, you just do not look

that way. my family is irish. you do not look irish at all. the profiling that is going on is very have handed. if you are developing a profile based on people's behavior, that is different. but if you are basing your profile merely on appearance, religion, a country of origin, you are going to gather so many people who are not affiliated with terrorism that you will be wasting law enforcement resources. host: one example from israel -- we can be diligent without being paralyzed from fear. they do a certain type of profiling in that country. guest: i cannot go into the criteria that they used. i know american friends and

colleagues who have been detained in israel, who felt the profile and there was over the top. i do not know what the routine standards and protocols are, so i cannot say we should adopt that system. host: we are talking about body scanners and pat downs now in place at the nation's airports. we are speaking to laura murphy of the aclu. caller: good morning. i would like to submit two things that will prove this entire tsa draconian searches are a necessary, if you would allow me. every time i hear mention of the christmas day bomber, it infuriates me that they do not go further, the "the detroit press" was helped aboard by a

state department agent. we are looking at a state-run terrorist organization, so that would sort of be a false threat. also, the entire terrorist threat is not as big as we are led on to be. not to say that it is not a problem. but the international >> in which five terabytes of film was released from 9/11, which completely blasted the government's story out of the water, if talking about bombs in the basement. if we need a new investigation.

this is where it all stems from. host: i will stop you on that point. did you want to respond? guest: not really. people have a lot of observations. some stories are rooted in factual discrepancies, and some are conspiracy theories. it is the job of the government to sort these things out. it is the job of the informed public. i would urge people to go to the website and type in tsa complaint, and look at some of the documents. host: going back to israel, one of our viewers is saying so what, millions of people should be effected because the left does not want to profile? it goes back to the issue of what the alternatives are. what is left to try to make sure people on the plane are safe?

guest: i think a lot of the investigation of suspected terrorists goes on well before they get to the airport. the government has enormous tools to engage in wiretapping and surveillance, and sometimes they have gone too far to put under surveillance peaceful groups that are concerned about animal rights, or anti-war protesters. so, there is a kind of profiling that is legitimate, that is rooted in probable cause, that is effective. . there is the ham-handed, mass, deal-by-association, religion, or skin color, that is proving to be ineffective. even your top national security officials will tell you that as an effective use of government resources.

host: the head of the transportation administration testified yesterday, and was asked a lot of questions about the airport procedures. here is more from his testimony. >> the use remains optional for travelers, but the quality is not. we to make sure for everyone, all of the traveling public, not when they get on that plane, they have the high confidence that everyone else on that flight has been adequately screened. if everyone else wants to make sure i have been adequately screened. that is what we come down to invest the balance between privacy and security. host: laura murphy, an issue you talked about earlier. guest: i think tsa has a lot of good people here. it is not about being a bad guy or a good guy, it is about

having the right balance, and we think they are out of balance, that they do not protect security and privacy to the best of their ability. host: a couple more minutes with our conversation. up next is joe on the phone from san diego. caller: i am a first-time caller. i wanted to comment on something i do not hear many people speaking about in regard to the christmas day bomber. in my opinion, the original airport security we had in place before the body scanners came into play was effective because the thing that prevented him from being able to explode his device was that he was not able to get a detonation device on the plane, along with the explosive compound he had in his underwear. people do not talk about that. our security was working. i do not think these full-body scans will prevent compounds

like that from making that on the plane anyway. thank you for taking my call. guest: i think you raise a good point. i also think, as with the attempted bombing in times square, citizen alertness, and citizen engagement on that airplane, was also crucial to making sure that bomber was not successful. host: our next call is bob on the republican line from arkansas. six of long time listener -- caller: i am a long time listener. it is the first time i have gotten through. i have a comment. i believe that terrorists have already won by making does go through all these hoops, and my prediction is the next bomber

will have all bombing in a bobby -- body cavity. we will be hiring pathologists at a screening place. host: ok, bob. laura murphy? guest: he has a point. host: bill, from arizona. caller: i am a retired federal police officer. i think the lady from the aclu should check the policies. i know police officers have to follow procedures for searches. what i am seeing at the airports is an exact reversal of that. now, i do not know why the government should be able to do it one way for criminal

activities, and then be able to turn around because you are standing at an airport. host: thank you, bill. guest: that is the way it feels, that people are being treated like criminal suspects. there is not the program protocol -- appropriate protocol to go through preliminary steps before people are subjected to this invasive groping. the problem has been that airports have been given greater latitude. basically, you are forced to sign away a certain level of your privacy once you purchase a ticket. host: if you say no, and refuse to go through the scanners and have a pat down, what happens?

guest: there is a case where a man refused to go through the body scanner and the pat downs, and he attempted to leave. he is being threatened with and $11,000 fine. that was passed at the senate committee hearing yesterday -- asked that the senate committee hearing yesterday. that report is getting a lot of attention. that is precisely what we want to know -- what happens if people leave the airport? the psa officials are alleging he agreed to the search wednesday entered the airport area. we do not agree with that. we think that is going to an extreme. if you do not want to fly, and you make a decision that you do not want to go through what you see your fellow passengers go through, you should have the right to leave without being interests of research. host: tony is joining us from san juan, pr, on our line for

independents. caller: good morning. one of the comments that some people continue to repeat, and i travel a lot of luck -- around the globe. they keep comparing profiling and all of that nonsense. there are 200 to 300 people traveling in israel. you cannot compare the 5 million to 10 million people traveling in and out of the u.s.. 47,000 flights a day, compared to maybe one dozen flights. peopleeep comparing the u.s. with a smaller country.

anyway, other than profiling, they should look into the root causes. they are alienating two billion people. they are causing them to become enemies. some of the callers use the muslim names. thank you, ms. murphy, for your work. guest: i appreciate your comments. i do think there is a great deal of alienation going on by the desire on the part of some leaders to ascribe guilt by association, religious association, country of origin. a lot of people are fleeing totalitarian regimes when they come to the united states, to

make a better life, to participate in our democracy, to get away from terrorism, and we cannot have a system where we are not able to distinguish those individuals because we do risk alienating people, and really increase in our safety concerns. host: one last tweet from a dealer. so, now, americans are guilty until proven innocent? guest: it feels that way, and i think the good news about this country is that we are capable of correction and making improvements. we live in a robust democracy. people are complaining. legislators are getting involved. the aclu has a website. in the search area, put in tsa

complaint, and you will get a forum. we are looking at this. this is a dynamic situation. it is time for the public to weigh in. host: laura murphy, thank you as always for being with us. guest: steve, thank you, and i want to give you a copy of the aclu constitution for the entire c-span family. host: something that the light senator robert byrd always had in his pocket. thank you, again. here is the question. how much should a ceo be paid? what should his perks be? that is a question we will pose to a journalist who is putting together a series of articles in a couple of minutes as "the washington journal" continues this morning. first, a news update.

>> jobless numbers just in from the labor department showed initial claims for unemployment benefits rose by 2000 last week, a level that was expected. the four-week average fell for the fourth time in five weeks to the lowest level since september, 20008, just before the financial crisis worsened. one day after voting for party leaders, house democratic leaders have to the white house to talk to president obama odd taxes. the democrats -- to talk to president obama about taxes. the democrats are asking to drive the hardest bargains. joe barton has been meeting to acquire a waiver. he met with speaker-to-be john boehner last night, but neither commented. senator lisa murkowski is the

jubilant over her right-in victory. she says we did the unprecedented. she defeated two-party-backed -- tea party-mac joe miller, sarah palin's favorite candidate. >> live this week and, joined -- joined authors as booktv heads to the 27th annual miami book fair international. follow the panel discussions, live all weekend on c-span two. this saturday, union as an american history television offers a day-long symposium on the civil war prominent historians giving a new perspective on the domestic and international impact. our coverage starts at 9:00 a.m. eastern. american history tv, every

weekend on c-span3. "washington journal" continues. host: the pay scale for company executives, what they earn, the stock options, that is our topic. we are joined from our studios at pace university in new york city. thank you for your time. as you put together this information, what surprised you the most? guest: what surprised me was the comeback in total compensation as we get a book -- gathered the full sample for lace british latest fiscal year. let's look at the example for the highest paid. going down the list, is the head of liberty media -- media. he has a 300% increase.

larry ellison, of oracle, who sought a pay cut, but still $68.6 million. the head of yahoo!, carol bartz, her first year as ceo, and let's move does earning almost $38 million. guest: the one thing people should pay attention to is that this is not money people can take to the bank or by burgers with. for the most part, these figures represent the value of stock at the time of the grant, and may or may not ever turned into cash is their share prices do not do well. host: you are right. annual bonuses rose 11%. why the job? -- jump? guest: in that case, you do see

money that you can take to the bank. a number of boards have decided to lower the bar when they were setting the targets. many were worried about whether the recession was over, and whether it would be possible to actually pay bonuses to their ceo's. they made it easier. our -- host: from our twitter page -- it should be tired -- titled "exaggerated sense of entitlement." guest: i think that is a popular view, but on the other hand, these ceo's work awfully hard for what they are making, and their board would argue a large piece of what they are awarded for his performance. if they do not get any money out of those stock options if the shareholders are not also awarded. in the case of the liberty media ceo, his shareholders have the

highest return. host: to current boards have more say in terms of the salary of their ceo's based on some of the excesses' we saw in the late 1990's? guest: we are looking at total compensation. bonuses and salaries are thrown in, and, yes, the boards have a lot to say. they are the ones that hire and fire the ceo. in the case of at least three, these were brand new ceo's us, so you have to pay them a little more. host: another viewer says caping ceo pay is a way to punish success. guest: i think that is a good point. >> congress will be in place.

republicans will be in majority to provide an oversight. the congress we are talking about embarking on, january is one very much focused on the oversight authority that we are given, connected with the levers that comes with appropriations authority. the coupling of those two is what i hope will allow us to identify where things have gone wrong, how to follow on the regulatory uncertainty on the epa issued, on the issue of dodd-frank, and the any number of areas and agencies or i think many of you have said we cannot deal with this kind of uncertainty continuing. i do think that congress that says no to anti-business, anti growth regulation is important, but at the same time, we have to go about putting in place signals and policies that are

incentives for capital formation. host: joann lublin, let me follow up in terms of what the congress will bring in terms of regulatory oversight to companies in general, and whether any of that will have an impact on what 8th ceo ernst specifically. guest: i doubt tt congress will tackle compensation. it examine that issue in the recently enacted dodd-frank law, and there are several provisions that relate to executive compensation, such as boards having to put in strict clawback procedures, so that if for any reason, the company restates their earnings, they can get their money back. host: joann lublin is also the author of " call on easy money -- "uneasy monday."

elaine joins us underline for democrats. -- on our line for democrats. caller:. i have worked all of my life. i cannot understand why all of the money seems to rise to the top, and the guy on the bottom cannot get a 5 cent per hour raise. guest: the reason is that he is the guy at the bottom. in any game of sports, the people who are the winners, the biggest hitters, the ones who had the most home runs, they get the biggest pay packages, not the one that strikes out. ceo patel are in a very, very, very small market for talent, and boards feel strapped to find the best ceo to turn a sick company around, or lead it to the next level of achievement. the people at the low end of the

totem pill ha less power, and that often have lost skills. it is not a reflection of their attributes as a human being, just a reflection of the pecking order, as well as their success. host: sheila, republican line, from new york. good morning. caller: good morning. i do think ceo's deserve high pay, just like sports people, actors, actresses, singers, because their career span is limited. after all, you could only fool some of the people, some of the time. host: we will get a response to that. guest: i think there is a limited amount of truth to that. on the other hand, i have written numerous stories about

ceo's who have failed upward, and somehow they get hired again in another high-paid capacity. i am not totally convinced that every ceo is like every professional baseball player with a limited life span. host: can you explain what is a restricted stock grant? guest: it is an award of shares in which the board is telling you you cannot sell these shares for a certain period. often, that is just time-based. in other words, if you keep showing up for work for the next three years, at the end of those three years, the restrictions will lapse. some people do not like it. they call it. for paul's. eventually you will get to -- pay it for paul's. -- pulse.

some say it should have a connection to a performance for all. host: one of our viewers say -- says i would fill the family for bonuses for productive interest it did industry, nurses, for instance, goldman sachs. -- verses, for instance, goldman sachs. guest: that has been the case. a lot of companies have ranged in their pay because of tarp regulations and federal oversight. now, as they repay the tarp money, all bets are off. host: brad joins us from los angeles. good morning, but independent line. but she -- caller: i know they work hard,

but do they work harder than the president? they take value out of the company that they could be putting back into the company. i think it is immoral on some level. guest: i did not have any comment, i just think it is a reflection of a widely-held view. host: republican line, go ahead, please. caller: ceo's run their companies, but in a way, they have a disconnect between what is really have it -- happening with their and volleys -- employees, and what they are running up there in their office. that is to it. i do not think they really see what is happening in the work

force levels. host: thank you. guest: i think you are absolutely correct. there are a lot of ceo's who live a closed existence. if everything is done for them. everyone bows down to what they say. they are cut off from the rank- and-file. the best leaders make sure they beyond the bonds of their office, and reached out, and connect. they walk the walk, and do not just talk the talk. host: this is all related headline. in the dodd-frank bill, there are certain measures in place to make certain that boards of directors and others have oversight on what ceo's earn. can you walk us through the oversight process, and whether it is different for different companies or industries? guest: obviously, it will differ

by company. the biggest difference has a lot to do with size. the bigger the company, the more sophisticated the director, the more experienced those directors have been monitoring ceo pay packages elsewhere. those companies also tend to be under greater scrutiny. the smaller companies tend to get away with more. host: our next caller is joe, joined us from honolulu, hawaii, on the democrats' line. caller: a ibm a founder and ceo of the nonprofit -- i am a founder and ceo of a non-profit. i should leave that, there, and ask you to make a comment on the route you see that going. it is six years and now that we have been in existence, and i am

debating whether to go through [unintelligible] your opinion is what i'm interested in. guest: thank you. i did not consider myself an expert on the ceo pay in nonprofits, it is, however an area where the irs has been increasing scrutiny, and have threatened to crack down on nonprofits were the ceo paid as not seem to be in line with mission size, etc.. i've not seen any evidence from the crackdown. ellen, from new jersey. welcome to washington journal. caller: let me give you my personal experience. i worked for a wireless company years ago, and i watch the ceo

generate $100 million for himself, for a company that had no profits. negative free cash flow. this is symptomatic of the income equality as it develops in the country. -- inequality as it develops in this country. there are no checks and balances. i witnessed that firsthand. host: we will get a response. guest: i am curious as to how the example you cited was able to collect $100 million if there was no profit. i suspect the ceo was the founder, who may have put some of its own capital at risk, by far from consider myself a defender of ceo pay.

i am an observer. i think the balance of power is tilted in favor of the ceo hotel. it at the end of the day, the -- ceo's. at the end of the day, the ceo can simply decide not to work there, and the board essentially has limited amount of clout to enforce any limitations on pay levels. host: we are talking about the pay and perks for company executives. joann lublin joins us from new york. jim is on the phone from indiana, and our line for republicans. welcome to the conversation. caller:. -- caller: yes. i think any man should have to work like poor people, here in indiana where we would be

making $30,000 or $40,000 a year. there is no man worth $1 million a year. there are way overpaid. they should work for $30,000 or $40,000 like us. host: thank you for the call. we also have this e-mail who echoes what you just said that no man is worth $100 million a year. the lot of the average citizen has been dismal. the fact is that economic darwinism -is a cruel and false hope that will prove to be the end of the usa. joann lublin, your response. guest: i will echo what i have made to prior callers. life is not fair. shots.re calling the

when a board has a ceo resigned -- i heard about one recently who told his board of 4:00 on friday afternoon that he was out of there. the board have put in a huge pay package to make sure he would not jump ship, and they said what about all of this money, and he said not a problem, my new company will make it up. that happens to be the reality of the world we are operating -- in. host: rick is join us from new jersey. see, i was hoping to take another stab at answering the question about the five-cent raise, and not use a metaphor this time. guest: i am not sure what the question is. it is hard to get raises the

lower down you are in the pecking order. i think unions have been a positive force for change, but at the top of the heap, the ceo has the ultimate weapon. it is not the kind of leveraged someone at the lowest end of the salary range in a company has. generally, people who make less money in a company are more replaceable than the ceo. that happens to be the way the world operates. host: this has brought forth all types of views on our twitter page. one says ted blossom, the ugly side, why do they have more than me? -- capitalism, the ugly side, why do they have more than me? caller: and good morning. when you say life is not fair, it is not necessarily an explanation that will work. communism was not fair, and it went by the wayside.

if the insanity of the ceo pay continues, a new get into slavery, our system will not be fair anymore. that is an important consideration. i would like to see you address that. gee, i certainly understand your concern. -- guest: i certainly understand your concern. there is an anchor among the voting public, and some of that has resulted in the the reforms you see in the dodd-frank law. legislation, as you know, is a process of compromise, that does not in many respects go far enough to make sure we do not either have the tell years of performance, or the excess in pay. i am optimistic that our system will survive. host: james has a point from our twitter page. if a ceo makes more than expected, or prevents large losses, how is he or she properly compensated and what if

jobs are saved? guest: it it depends on how smart the board of directors is in crafting a package that is linked. a lot of boards have put in a variety of measures, including, in some cases, how people who work there feel about the company and their job. that is not a widespread practice, but there are a lot of boards sensitive to the fact that there have to be multiple measures on how you decide to reward your leader. host: robert, san antonio, texas, our line for republicans. caller: i have two points. you have this lady celebrating ceo pay, and this whole country is going to help. i will take my company. it is the largest computer company, probably in the world.

i think you should know who that is. they froze our pay, and at the same time, built the largest factory over in china. then, six months ago, we were told we had to sign a paper to take a 5% pay cut or get into the unemployment line. host: let me point out that i do not know if it is fair to say our guest is here to celebrate. let's take that point, and come back with your follow-up. joann lublin? guest: i am not sure what the question is. i do not think it is fair to imposed pay cuts, our level employees without people at the top of the house taking pay cuts as well. in the long run, if they have that approach, the ceo will not survive because shareholders become disaffected with the

ceo's tenure. host: robert, your followup? caller: we have one party in congress how read about the free market, and the free market is driving all of this stuff. no one has any control. it is like the wild west. the top guy at the top gets all of the money. we are arguing over an increase, and stopping that tax cut for the richest people, and a few months ago, we cannot even give the unemployed people $300 a week. this is ridiculous. host: thank you, robert. guest: i think you are right. we will see a lot of debate in congress, but there has been a fair amount of gridlock even when it was controlled by the democrats. everything goes in waves. we go to one extreme, then the

other. guest: dan joins us on our line for a democrat from connecticut. caller: it is ridiculous because they are making $500 for every dollar. since the 1970's, the middle class has seen wages stagnate, while they had to borrow more credit, and nowadays you do not even know if you are getting laid off. we should get a production bonus. the more work we do, we should get a bonus, not some bozo at the top. second off, they need us more than we need them. they are making risky investments come here and there, but the mortgage-backed security, and they are making a bonus, and getting a golden parachute. guest: i think it makes some valid points, and the smartest ceo's are sensitive to those

issues, and if they are, they get greater productivity out of their workers' them the ones who pretend they do not know what is going on. host: in light of excesses' we have seen, what tools to the boards have that they might not act as a part of that dodd-frank legislation? guest: in terms of excesses' on compensation, i think the best tool is the clawback provision, which essentially says if the company restated its earnings for any reason, it does not have to be because of fraud, the board has to go and get money that was paid to top executives that was linked to those earnings results. i think that is a powerful tool. dodd-frank has limitations on the boards use of compensation consultants. the compensation consultant is owned by a company that is doing other work for the company that

is outside, if that is the case, there needs to be more disclosure. host: a couple of more phone calls. scott, from georgia, independent line. caller: good morning. the first point i would like to make is we do not have any free market. the only free market is the black market. the rest of the markets are controlled by a handful of people, no matter how you want to look at -- a look at it. for some reason, the people at the top getting paid more and more is a good thing, yet, somehow, whenever the conversation switches to racing people's pay at the lowest end, there is this economic gloom and doom fallout. people at the bottom are getting just a few cents more. host: joann lublin?

guest: you is a good point. another piece of dodd-frank that should give shareholders of voice in whether they like what they are seeing is a vote called say on pay. for the first time, thanks to this new law, shareholders will have to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down on the kinds of practices as well as the level they are giving to top officers. it will not be a binding result, in other words the board does not have to do anything, but a lot of boards will sit up and take notice. that is probably the most significant change of all of the changes that are in dodd-frank he's acting executive pay. -- effecting executive pay. if you do not like what the ceo is getting, buy stock, and blow your shares -- go to your

shares. host: our last call is from hagerstown, maryland. joshua. caller: i had some research i did on executive pay against lower-level pay. in the last 25 years, ceo pay has gone up over 500%. host: joann lublin? guest: your figures are correct, so what is your question? host: i think that was his point. i asked you what surprised you the most. what do you take away from all of this? guest: what surprised me the most was the makeup of the 10 highest-paid ceo's.

our larger sample covered every public company in this country, and only one ceo stayed on that list, reflecting the fact that shareholders were starting to do better, and you were also seen certain industries tend to pay higher. i was surprised that the ceo of occidental petroleum was the only that showed up on both lists. host: joann lublin, thank you for joining us. we have about 10 minutes. we want to get your reaction to a story we talked about in our first hour -- the ipo of general motors, and what it means for the $50 -- $50 billion investment that taxpayers put forth. the stock opened today upwards of $33 a share. it is rising sharply. the market has been open for about 22 minutes.

tell us what you think. what is next with the ipo offering. host: we are told the ipo is above two dollars above the $33 per share. general motors is on pace to sell $18.1 billion in shares of oil will likely be the second- largest u.s. the initial public offering ever, capping what "the wall street journal" is calling a remarkable turnaround. also, from "usa today," it could raise up to 20 t billion dollars. investors who want a piece get their chance today when the auto

maker launches its second life as a public company. again, shareholders are up sharply at this hour. the deal could still grow, and it also means the federal government will shed part of its investme in general motors. there is this from the front page of "washington post." host: on to your phone calls. paul joins us from fort lauderdale, florida, on the independent line. good morning.

caller: good morning. i look at the whole situation with gm and everybody, it seems to me that there are a certain set of people who trade -- tend to be consumers, and that as 99% of people in the society. that 1% of the people of the money keeps rising and rising. i can afford everythin the people who sweat blood and tears, it seems to me are less important. things keep rising for us, and there is no way to come out of this. what you are going to have it is a lot of criminal activity, terrorists, and then the media is being paid to keep the people in a panic. host: a bit, from pennsylvania, your take on the government

bailout of gm? caller: good morning. my dealing with gm has been this. they made a poor product. they treated customers like crap. i said i would never buy another gm car, and now my tax payer money back of them out. i cannot believe this. as i said -- is absolutely ridiculous. host: donald, from princeton, new jersey. caller: i am curious if there was a mechanism to set the price. host: the government having shares in general motors, in order to rico the investment, the -- to recoup the investment, the price of the stock,

according to "the wall street journal" needs to move op 2 -- up to 50 two dollars a share. right now, it is trading just above $33. it is fluctuating. we are getting your reaction. nick is joining us from pontiac, mich., a republican line, the morning. caller: good morning. i want to voice my concerns that a lot of the american public really has no idea of what general motors has underneath the sheets. the greatness of general motors is going to come of as soon as they get rid of obama mortars. -- motors. people did not realize what is taken place in the last five years. they're rebuilding.

unfortunately, the news media is doing too much attacking. here the next couple of years, you'll see some greatness. host: fort worth, texas, democrats line. caller: i just wanted to say this is a great thing for america. thank god for president obama having the courage to make the decision to reinvest in american manufacturing. i'm very proud of the fact that we still have the car business. i would love to purchase a share myself, unfortunately i am an unemployed american. again, i think it was great that our president had the courage and conviction to save the manufacturing segment and the car industry that i am of member of. host: paul clemens has his point of view in an op-ed in "the new

york times." this is good news for gm, but if you travel through the detroit area, you see remnants like the old continental plant, and the old fisher body plant. memphis, tenn., good morning. caller: good morning. this kind of concerns gm with respect to unions, and also the lady who was done previously. when we look at ceo pay, and people gripe about a union person tried to better himself or his family with better benefits and a little more paybacks i do not see it. iowa and% for unions. iowa and% for unions.