on this obligation. you have heavy responsibilities already at home. but you recognize that this is one of the key challenges facing the country. i truly believe that other than the terrorist threat to america, this debt >> i just want to say about senator gregg, he is a good man. he is someone who fully understands the challenges we confront. he has been willing to put aside partisanship and any other consideration to try to get a result for the country. chairman, we could not have a better chairman of the budget committee. he is simply the best. we all want to thank you for your service to the country. i ask everyone to join me in

recognizing his service. [applause] over and over, john has demonstrated courage. i have seen it many times. senator durbin, you have shown courage many times. i will never forget your stepping up. i watched the press conference yesterday. i must say, it gave me chills. you had the courage to step toward and say, this is not exactly what we do. we are prepared to sign up and make a beginning, an important beginning. thank you for that. we are not going to get 14 of

18. when we put together this plan and finally agreed on the steps of 14 and 18. my staff and asked me what chances i put on it. i said i% -- 5% to 10%. in the united states senate, when you are facing a filibuster, 60% prevails. i believe we have crossed an important hurdle. we have laid out a plan that will be resurrected because it must be. put me in the camp. there are things i do not like at all. i do not like the federal employee health benefits plan defined contribution approach. i do not like it.

there are other things i do not like. that is not the point. the point is that what we had agreed to is more important than what we have not agreed to. we have agreed to $4 trillion of debt reduction. that stabilizes the debt. it brings the debt down to a level that every economist who came before us says it is absolutely essential to achieve. a debt of less than 40% of gdp. on social security, i think we have gotten it about right. it does secure the solvency of social security or the next 75 years and does not use any of the proceeds to reduce the deficit. this is purely to strengthen and make secure social security for the long term. we have done it in a balanced

and fair way. we have helped those who are below 25% of poverty. we have given them a bomb in their benefits. because of the excellent work of those withbin, hardship waivers would have to retire early. thank you for that important contribution. there were news media reports saying we have done away with mortgage deductions. we have not. we have moved it from $1 million mortgages to five. thousand dollars mortgages. those reports were inaccurate. i also saw reports that we were increasing the taxes by $1,700 on all americans. that is absolutely inaccurate. we have fundamentally reformed the tax system and taken out some of the deductions and

exclusions and credits and tax expenditures so we could lower rates. 90% of the additional revenues will lower rates to make america more competitive, including lowering the couple -- the corporate rate, which is among the highest. we are doing something to make america more competitive so we can create more jobs. that is a leadership position that will be recognized in any plan that comes forward in the future. i can go on, but i want to end there and say how proud i am of the work of this group. we have changed the conversation in the country. thank you, andy, for your plan. i like it better than some of the plants that have been put out. you have made a real contribution.

cobbers 1 schakowsky -- congress woman schakowsky has also made a contribution. i admire that you have had the courage to come forward with the plan. i do not agree with congressman ryan, but i admire his courage. let me conclude by saying this is not the end of the story. this book will be read again. these chapters will be reopened. we have provided a strong message to our colleagues and to the country of what has to be done. thank you alan simpson. thank you erskine bowles. >> thank you. we would not be here without you and senator gregg.

another congressman has asked to be recognized. >> i want to begin by saying thank you. thank you for giving us a chance to have this conversation. to alan since -- to alan simpson, who was the perfect choice to be a call to air -- to be a co-chair. he would say all of the wrong things before he said the right things. to erskine bowles, if you were doing the running of the bulls, the bulls would move out of your way. the president chose two individuals who had the courage of their convictions to move forward. the enormous applause or what you have done for helping that stay together. i stayed in my office until the wee hours this morning and kept

my staff with me. i wanted to figure out if there was a way to get to a yes. for all of the reasons i think my colleague, dick durbin, said he is a yes, i think it is appropriately think about why we would all be a guest. i would be a no. dick durbin said he would be a yes because it is important to say we will have the courage to do something. to sit at this table is important. it will not be just this table. it will be a table at the senate, the white house, and every kitchen table in the country where we will have to discuss this. we were given the privilege to be at this table. i do not give up the seat easily. i cherish that seat. i intend to continue to find the seat so we can get there.

what the kids have done is to give us an opportunity to move forward. this boils down to the following, we have some hard choices. you are showing us that it can be done. you gave us many alternative ways to do it. you put together an outline of the many options that were out there as one way to do it. what you have done is to stimulate the conversation. you opened the door for us to act and do something, not just talk. as senator conrad said, it is not the end of the story. i do not think the last chapter has been written. this may be one of the influential chapters. but the end of this book has not been written. i hope one of the chapters in this book will include a chapter

that says, "did we target that which got us into this mess? did we look at what was letting us develop the record surpluses and did we examine what took us from the record surpluses to the record deficits?" if we examine that chapter well, the following chapter will say, we know how to get to some of the problems. when you borrow money from china to pay for our troops in iraq and afghanistan at one trillion dollars, the economy -- at $1 trillion, the economy is going to hurt. when you pass a prescription drug plan for our seniors in america -- i am not passing judgment one way or the other as to whether it is good policy or bad. we just did not pay for it.

when you pass it and you do not fund it, we are looking at another $300 billion in on paid for costs that we have to call from china to pay for. we can talk about the size of the tax cuts, the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts. they probably add up to one- third -- 1/3 of the deficit and the decisions that have been made. as one popular politician at home you to say, then was ben. now is now. what do we do not? i hope one of the chapters will say, we cannot undo the policies of the past, but we can pay for them. there is about $1.30 trillion on the table on page 4 that this plan pays for. i do not think it pays for the

things during the decade where we spend all of the money. the objection that i have is that somehow a senior receiving benefits, social security or otherwise, is going to see cuts to programs because we have to make those tough choices. because we spend $300 billion in the wars in iraq and the prescription drug plan -- and it may be benefiting from the prescription drug plan. the second thing we have to do, and i hope we see this chapter in the book -- which are going to do this in a way that recognizing that -- that investzes that we must in america. we have to take the american investers' dollars and th

in america. i appreciate that the fire walls have been put in place when it comes to domestic discretionary cuts. the bulk of the cuts will come disproportionately on the backs of those that require education, environmental cleanup, housing, senior citizen services, health care. but you have done something important. you have put the discussion on the table. you have said there a firewalls keep us from poaching one from the other. you did something else that is important. you raised the other important chapter in this book that has to be written. while we talked about spending being the problem, in reality, it is not the spending on the appropriations side that is the problem. it is the spending on the tax

side that is the problem. some will argue that that is not real spending. money and taxpayers' we should let them keep it. that is true, but we need the money to pay for prescription drug benefits. we need it. it costs us when we do not have it. the second most difficult issue to see if i could both what this -- vote for this plan was if i could see if people in my district got the benefits of these massive earmarks that were identified. i mentioned to the chairman that we would do much more to take into account these huge tax giveaways. then, if we apportion it properly, we could make the decisions and choices that will allow us to move forward.

this is a plan that is where the of consideration. this is a plan that makes tough choices. this is a plan that provides a template and gives different options. there are different options that can be chosen. the director put together a plan that has a number of options that i think are worthy of consideration. as i was looking to put together a plan the day before yesterday, i found myself moving in the great measure toward your plan, alice, in terms of discretionary spending more so than this plan we have before us. there are some great chapters to be written. we have some great authors at this table. all of us agree we are going to keep these seats at this table and continue forward. this is just one chapter in a long saw the that we must -- and

we must prevail. i thank the chairs and everyone on this commission for making this a memorable journey that i got to go through as we get ready to tell the american people that we are ready to lead. thank you very much. >> i almost wish we were coming back to work with you like before. you are a special guy. you could not have had a more pasta approach. you have been a big help to all of us -- a more positive approach. you have been a big help to all of us. congresswoman schakowsky. >> thank you. while i cannot support the simpson-bowles plant. i want to thank them for their

dedication to this difficult task over the last a months. i agree that the work was constructive this by our inability to get the needed votes. i believe that we can do this without further eroding the middle class in america. it pays to remember that 10 years ago we had a budget surplus. that was rapidly decreasing. during the bush years, the surplus disappeared. through the wars and the tax cuts that mainly in wrist the already wealthy and a blind eye to the recklessness of wall street that caused 8 million americans to lose their jobs and millions more to do -- more to lose their homes. now we are on a "unsustainable fiscal task" that threatens the

economic viability of our country. i agree. there is another threat to our economy and our democracy. that is the alarming redistribution of wealth that is shrinking the middle class. the top 1% of americans own 34% of our nation's wealth, more than the entire 90% of the rest of americans combined. even during this great recession, the top 5% of households have seen their income he wrote. if we fail right now to extend unemployment insurance 2 million americans -- to 2 million americans, it will hurt our economy by depriving businesses, large and small, of what these struggling americans will go out and spend. now we have a report that talks about sacrifice in making

painful decisions. i asked, painful for whom? these recommendations as to those who have already been sacrificing and are sacrificing now to further sacrifice. those who have not enjoyed the prosperity party over the last few years are being asked to pick up too much of the task. we do not need to do that. there is another way. my plan recognizes the need to create jobs. a deficit reducing strategy some say reduces spending. the simpson-bowles plan addresses rising health-care costs by asking the elderly and the medicare beneficiaries to pay more out of their pockets even though they already pay about 30% of their mostly meager

income. the median income for seniors is $18,000 per year. their plan cut medicare by $110 billion by imposing higher cost sharing requirements on seniors and people with disabilities. my requires medicare to negotiate with pharmaceutical companies like the veterans administration does bringing down the costs to seniors by billions of dollars. mine ask for public options to the choices that seniors will have in 2014. the cbo estimates it will be a savings of about $10 billion per year. the simpson-bowles plan cuts the military budget, which is a good thing. mine does it as well. but not in combat military pay. these military families are not getting rich serving our country. they should not be the target

of deficit reduction. responding to republican calls to slash spending, the bowles- simpson plan calls for deep cuts in domestic discretionary spending. using the bowles-simpson formula, there is a 22% cut that jeopardize everything from nutrition and education to medical research and job screening. amazingly, their plan opens a new huge loophole to incentivize companies to outsource jobs by adopting the territorial tax system. u.s.-based multinational corporations will never have to pay taxes from subsidiaries in foreign countries. finally, the bowles-simpson plant will require cuts in social security -- plan will require cuts in social security.

social security has nothing to do with the deficit. their plan to make social security solvent for the next 75 years is not the plan for debt reduction or solvency. the bad news is that the average benefits for middle income workers -- we are talking about people who make up to $69,000 per year -- could be cut up to 35% depending on when they recall -- when they retire. there is no need to cut benefits in social security. we do not need to cut social security in order to save it, as my plan proves. i have highlighted a few of the ways the bowles-simpson plan further erodes the middle class. there are other things in their plan that are also in mind. there is a consensus that the defense budget must be subjected to scrutiny and trimming back

ways -- in ways never considered before. it is significant to tax expenditures. the " cheers have called them tax earmarks. -- the co-chairs have call them tax earmarks. some will criticize my approach to the of the reduction as politically impossible. i will gladly subject my ideas to the public, knowing that investing in jobs and asking the richest americans to contribute more represent a majority view despite the inside the beltway conventional wisdom of what is possible. bottom-line, the commission on fiscal responsibility and reform has proven that fixing our nation's fiscal challenges is not mission impossible. i look forward to constructive debate.

i will continue to stand up for low income and middle class americans so that we can all hold a truly american notion of leaving each generation better off than the one that came before it. thank you. >> thank you. we thank you for playing a construction -- a constructive part in this debate. >> i want to thank her for becoming a bird in the coal mine. she said she would clear her throat when i began to grant, which was not acceptable to other -- a i began to rant, which was not acceptable to others. i heard her do that. >> i was only partially at fault.

>> i was listening to senator conrad speak. it was hard to believe it was only 10 months ago that the president created this commission. we were suffering from the aftershocks of a devastating financial collapse that rocked the nation. only a handful of people like senator gregg and senator kent conrad were dealing with this not-front-page issue. we have changed that forever. we have changed the issue from whether there should even be a fiscal plan for this country to what is the best fiscal plan for this country. that is an enormous paradigm shift that i think it's enormously important that you have helped -- that is enormously important.

there are $14 trillion in debt as a reduction. i agree that before we continue with this directionless ahead to one during and before it becomes a chronic disease that slaps the strength of the greatest economy on earth, before it threatens our national security, and before it ends the most unique and special american dream, we have to do something. we should not be confused. the fact that we have five plans demonstrates that this is no longer a matter of policy. it is about leadership. just to be fair, the bowles- simpson plant got 60% of the boats -- of the bulk banks -- votes/ . if it fails, so do the other plans. we should just keep voting.

it is not a question of if. it is a question of when we are going to get this done. this president needs to make sure that by the state of the unit, he has is -- has his own plan. i voted no. it was despite my admiration for the effort. i feel strongly that we have two deficits in this country, a fiscal deficit and an investment deficit. we need to create a competitive, dynamic, and growing economy. no family would balance the budget by sending -- by not sending their children to college. no business would successfully compete without equipment. no nation can cut its way into the future.

it has to invest. i also thought the plan should better balance revenue and spending cuts at senator durbin says. i thought we could do more to provide solvency for social security while still providing benefits. ipod cuts to health care -- i thought we did not have enough shared responsibility on the part of corporations. i think something needs to be done. before i end, i want to say this, to senator durbin, i admire your courage. if those phone calls keep coming, send them to me. everyone needs to make hard choices. i admire the fact that you did as well. our children's future is not a matter of chance. it is a matter of choice. has this report says, it is the

moment of truth. thank you. >> i have enjoyed every moment i have spent with you. it has been a great learning experience for me. thank you for your contribution. >> that to me at go -- let me echo my thanks. i have made a lot of friends going through this process. the process is agonizing. making friends down here -- you do not make easy. it did happen. the most surprising what for me is andy and i becoming friends. i remember seeing the list of who is going to be on it and i thought, "who drink up this one

?" we are not going to get along. this is not going to work. i expected too much into this, a i would be hearing hey, hey, ho , ho outside my office. i thought i should be able to engage in the conversation. we got along. we did not necessarily agree, but we got along. my hope is that in this process, democrats and republicans lawn -- republicans learned to get along similarly. it has not been an easy vote or anyone. i am looking forward to it more than i ever thought. those of you who voted yes, i

admire you for doing that. for those who voted no, i recognize the agony that came with that decision. i cannot help noticing the pattern of the vote. james madison once said the hot tea of the house cools in the senate. i hope is that the coolness prevails. the problem is real. the problem is not going away. this is just the beginning. while this is the end of the commission, i am thanks all for that. it is just the beginning of the resolution and the moment of truth. it is here and it needs to be

addressed. to the politicians on the team, your efforts have just begun. we all recognize back. -- a we all recognize -- we all recognize that. i have never seen such hyperbole associated with what i would you as small items. the words slashed, destroyed, cut are applied to a 5% decrease over 10 years. i cannot understand the trauma of all the words associated with something like that. i have difficulty understanding how you get your job done at all when there is that kind of hyperbole.

my final comment would be that the essence of compromise is that no one is happy. there is something for each of us to point to to say we are not happy with it. that includes me. i would just ask you not to let the perfect the enemy of the good. i understand the arguments that everyone has to go through, but please do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. this is a time to not pull apart, but to pull to get it. thanks. >> thank you. before i go to senator samson, is there anyone else? >> i will be brief. i said at our last meeting that i was honored to serve on this commission and i support the co- chair's plan.

i gave both of my reasons and some of the things i disagree with. bmanecerra -- congressman becc erra refer to the plan and i do think it is a better plan. even that was a compromise. i am a democrat. we have 17 other people to deal with. we did not get what we wanted. but let me say a word to the press. because of my service on this commission, i have spent a lot of time in the last few weeks, as all of you have, been interviewed by the press. while there have been some excellent articles in this process, the general tone of the

interviews i have been subjected to was, "this cannot work, can it?" about 20% of the time i had with a microphone on my lapel was spent on the plan and 80% was spent explaining why this would not happen. i would plead with the press, and give democracy a chance. it is possible that we are sending people around the world to defend a plan that just might work. lay off and give it a chance. [applause] >> that is better. >> thank you very much, mr.

chairman. i made my speech yesterday and have yet the depth -- i made my speech yesterday and have given 20 more since that time. many others have reflected this sentiment. there should not be an indication that there is not powerful support behind this plan and the need for congress to engage. kent pointed out that we did get over 60%. i would point out that had we hit 14, we would have been required to get 77% of consensus. by failing to get the 14, we would not have the ability to force a vote on this specific

plan on the floor of the house. we should not lead this proposal this proposal fall idly by the wayside. there are too many proposals been shelved. we have shown that we can get the majority, the super majority

necessary, to pass this kind of legislation. the last point i would make is one i made yesterday. as we evaluate our options in moving forward, the option of inaction is unacceptable. we cannot allow gridlock or the effort to find the perfect get in the way of getting us on a track. several of the witnesses and an economist who talk to us early in our deliberations pointed out that one of the most significant things we could do for our economy would be to get on a plan. they did not say what plan. they did not say who is planned. they said get on a plan. our nation must recognize that

it is imperative that we do that immediately. if any message can come out of these deliberations. , i think it must be that we can get onto a plan. we have achieved the kind of super majority support for one plant in this commission. we need to expect congress to get to voting. this plan deserves a looked the issue deserves consideration. -- this plan deserves a vote. the issue deserves consideration. we should move for he needed an aggressive consideration of this plan and this mission. >> thank you. senator samson?

-- senator simpson. >> two things. that is a wonderful tribute. we will all get hammered. alice, what you say about the media, they would know i would say something about that. democracy is in trouble when two of the most disgusting bodies in america are politicians and careless. democracy cannot work wendy -- politicians and journalists/ . we have to do a better job. i have seen the interviews. the interviewers are young and vigorous. i say, tap on my box and you will be eaten --

they do not know what you mean when you say, "tap on my box." you are the one who will be clobbered. not me. there are things i do not like deep in mind that. i do not need to name them. when i get home, it will be something unbelievable. as these zealots gather their minions and the bouquets to begin their -- devotees to begin their slash and burn and crank up their untruthful distortions, be ready. they are going to pull all the stops. remember this. many of them wear the same cynics who chuckled and broke out the champagne when we began our work. they are not laughing now. [applause] that is a joy to watch.

because of the wall, -- because of you all, i will walk home proudly with my head held high. god bless you. >> thank you. let me conclude by thanking each of you for all you have done, for your courage, your commitment, your candor. you have been terrific through this whole nine month process. i respect every single one of you. there is no question that you can see how truly thrilled i am that a strong are protestant -- strong bipartisan majority of you voted for this report.

this report is just the first step. it is not the end. it is not the beginning of the end as churchill said. it is not up to the members of congress and the members of the administration, just like any said, to work together, to pull together, to not pull apart, and to work in a non-partisan matter. it has been amazing to watch the two sides come together in the adult conversations about a serious subject. please -- i am pleading with you -- make the tough choices. reform the tax code.

simplify the code. bring down rates. eliminate these dreadful deficits. i think the american people are counting on you. i thank you for all you have done. i have been honored to serve with you. this commission stands adjourned. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010]

[random conversations]

>> we are a lot from dirksen building on capitol hill. they feel they did not have the votes to pass the proposal, so they adjourned. 11 yes votes were predicted. 14 votes were needed. alan simpson and erskine bowles

will hold a press conference to talk about what has just taken place. we will have that when it gets under way. we expect to hear more from some of the commission members. we have a microphone where they will come to make comments. >> one of the things i appreciate is the health-care package. i do not think you can pass something of this magnitude --

[unintelligible] >> how was the vote on the tax cuts? >> are you looking over to the budget committee next year? >> i plan to work on a plan. there are many elements here that form the basis of the plan going forward. as i rise -- as i expressed repeatedly, we have the elements of what is required. we have sufficient size to stabilize the debt and bring it down to a level that all economists say is necessary. let's get the debt down to 40% of gdp.

every economist who came before us said that is essential to do overtime. >> you say elements of the plan changed. do you see the overall figures been put forward? >> i would have had a bigger deficit reduction this year. this is what is required to stabilize the debt and get it down to a level that economists say is sustainable. >> what will be the response on the beltway? >> i think what is required is a summit with the president and the leadership in congress. that is what senator gregg and i attempted to do. we had the secretary of the treasury and the omb as part of

the team. we had seven of our original cosponsors vote no. the vote was called. the administration came forward with this plan. this was an executive order commission, which i urge them to do. they are not at the table. we need the administration at the table. >> how important was it to have since -- to have senator durbin. ? >> senator durbin was important.

if you back off, we have 60% of the commission to vote for something extremely controversial. 60% in the senate would prevail. that is a good sign. >> you got 70% of the house. -- 17% of the house. >> that is a big problem. in rural parts of the country,

they have as great an interest as the other parts. i just do not agree with that. i think we have done a good job of protecting the most vulnerable in society. look at the farm bill. the cuts are about 7%. other discretionary cuts are about 20%. one of the 80 was talking about is the gas tax. here is the reality. my state is in topper 5 -- top 5 in our return upper -- return of tax dollars. the trust fund funds roads and

is far short of what is required. you are going to have to pay for things. i would have chosen another method. the gas tax is the funding mechanism going forward because of higher mileage. i do not think it is the proper foundation going forward. the biggest beneficiaries in the country for federal highway legislation are rural states. we get more back than we send in. if you balance the equities, i think role parts of the country did reasonably -- rural parts of the country did really well. everybody is going to have to contribute to getting the debt under control. >> it seems like there is more

bipartisanship on the senate side. [unintelligible] >> i do not want to go there. i do not want to be critical of anyone who served on this commission. [unintelligible] >> i answered here earlier. >> how to use the amount that? -- how do you surmount that? >> you need to have a summit. you need to bring together house leadership, the senate, republicans and democrats, and the administration. there needs to be a negotiation.

i would add that one of the proposals -- i think the employment numbers today [unintelligible] >> we met with a deficit reduction caucused yesterday at senator durbin so that he would have a chance to hear from a significant group in our caucus. they were overwhelmingly support it. they issued a letter either last night or this morning saying we need to go forward and broaden the efforts. [unintelligible]

>> listening in on some of the remarks from can -- kent conrad. they needed 14 votes for the report to be passed on to congress. there were only 11. we heard from congress people telling why they voted against

it created it is simply a proposal at this point. it does have bipartisan support. it will have some impact on congressional effort to tackle the debt. according to "the hill" newspaper, the proposal will come up for a vote in the lame duck session.

>> they think that the problem is health care, and their solution is to repeal the bill. of course, i, as a no vote, completely disagree with that, and don't want to see further burdens of for medicare beneficiaries and help consumers. i support the bill that passed. i think we will have a battle in the specifics of the segments of this proposal, and maybe there can be some agreement. here is what i like, that the budget was put on the table in a very serious way, and even

secretary gates and others think that is a fertile area of agreement. the tax expenditures for the very first time, a deduction in credit, are going to be scrutinized, and spending and tax code, very positive. i think it has been constructive, i think we will see legislative measures with a reflection of what we've done here. >> do you see any vote finding common ground given a unified front but has republicans -- by the house republicans? >> i think it will be very difficult. we are likely to seek that now. we did not get republican votes, except for a handful, to extend middle-class tax cuts. i think we got four republicans in support of that.

we're still seeing a destructive fight here. seeing a pretty stark divide here. >> and tax reform and this plan -- do you see this sort of redistribution that goes on within the tax reform plan skeet in bowles-simpson with the tax reform and weather to be done aggressively? >> i think the way that the tax proposal here doesn't help to diminish this divide between the wealthy and the middle-class in our country. i think this is on itself something we absolutely have to address it, not only in the tax code, but when we look at the

ways we're spending discretionary money. but the notion of putting the whole tax code on the table is an important one, but do we really think that we're going to be able to eliminate almost all of the tax expenditures -- my fear is that what we do is we lower the rates, and then we still have the tax expenditures that are not there that are very popular that have a constituency, and that we don't get the kind of on the metal change that we need -- we don't get the kind of a fundamental change that we need. >> you mentioned a lot about income inequality, and how effective do think an argument on income inequality can be in a

deficit reduction towards the middle class? >> i think the american people feel not only that they are struggling with mortgages, keeping their homes, unemployment, the fear of unemployment, but i think that they feel that the rich have gotten off with something, that the wall street types have been benefited, that they are the ones who are really the losers in all of this. there is an anchor, i think, not only about the condition right now, but that it is unfair. and so i think that is a much more powerful driver than people think. not to talk about just in terms of -- not just to talk about in terms of that income inequality, but do you think is fair that the wealthiest are continuing to spend at tiffany's, to buy yachts and

see their income or rise even as you are facing challenges in your life? is that really fair? i think that will help to drive the debate.

>> outside out to remarks by jan schakowsky from illinois, one of the commission members who voted against the proposal today. >> wall street tycoons and rich people have gotten breaks, that there were bailouts that they did not get.

there is a feeling that they are the losers in this whole scheme of things, that somebody is getting richer while they are struggling even more. that is why when we talk about debt or deficit reduction plans that we don't want to take another slap at the middle- class. what i see in the proposal is that it asks people who have not been at the party to pay the tab. it is asking old people to pay more for their health care, to lose some of their social security benefits, it is asking middle income people for cuts in education programs and health programs and job training programs. i think it is definitely skewed towards targeting the interests of middle-class people and essentially, that is the reason why i was not able to vote for it.

you talk about shared sacrifice, but there has not been shared prosperity. the sacrifice has not been shared for the last couple of decades. income ordinary people really has not risen. for many people, it has actually in real dollars fallen. now we say we won shared sacrifice and everybody starts at the same place. that exacerbates the problem we have of income inequality, i think it really makes ordinary people mad. >> so where do you go after the people who've made it big and the last 10 -- >> 100% opposition -- >> going back and said the committee room to hear remarks -- said the committee room to hear remarks by alan simpson and her erskine bowles, the "

chairs -- alan simpson and erskine bowles, the cochairs of the commission. >> it could not be more positive. it is really a great idea. >> for a partisan approach can work, starting with republicans saying that this can work -- >> i think your questions are all wrong. i really do. it is non-partisan. that is the whole point. this was a non-partisan activity. i spent as much time with tom coburn as i did with dick durbin. they worked together. kent conrad and senator gregg worked together. that is what made this, unfortunately, unique, but going forward, these relationships and his trust has been established. this is exactly what we did in 1997. we build up trust, we found

common ground, and working with senator lott and speaker gingrich and the president, we got to a bipartisan conclusion and a balanced federal budget. i think this is a first step. >> have they indicated they will use anything from this? >> when i was driving here, jack lew, the new budget director paul may -- told me that he and secretary geithner would like to meet with the commission and discuss going forward. >> any plans -- >> you will have to ask him. i'm going home. i am going right back to the university. >> and with the administration -- >> well, what the next step is up to the people appear bright at all like to tell you is the call with -- up to the people up

here. all i can tell you is the call with jack lew this morning, saying that he and secretary gunnar want to meet with the commission as a whole. the congress and the president have to take those steps to take this forward. we have got to bring down spending, reform the tax code, eliminate these deficits. thank you for much. -- thank you very much.

>> remarks from committee co- chair is erskine bowles and the

other committee cochair, alan simpson. we will go back outside to the stakeout area, where we expect to hear remarks from other commission members. we will bring those to you live here on c-span.

again, heading out to the hallway, where we are standing by waiting for remarks from some of the debt commission members as they adjourned their meeting on the debt proposal without holding a vote for approval. they needed 14 votes for the report to be officially passed to congress. there were, as we heard, only about 11 votes and support, so the proposal will not be passed on to congress.

again, as we stand by winning four marks from some of the commission members, we will reduce some of the details -- waiting for remarks from some commission members, we will review some of the details of the report. it would achieve nearly $4 trillion in reduction by 2020, sharply reduced tax rates and cut spending and tax code, modify the mortgage interest deduction, what also ensure at the solvency of social security. again, it is a nonbinding proposal, but it does have bipartisan support, so it is

likely to have some impact on congressional efforts to take on the debt. according to "the hill" newspaper, house and senate members of said it will allow it to come up for a boat in a lame duck session. incoming house speaker john boehner is not committing to a vote in the next congress.

stand by this location and went to see if any of the commission members, to make comments. if they do, we will record remarks and bring them to you later on c-span. >> if i had put my money on it about the outcome, it would be that peace in iraq, and it might eace, is likelyac to be imposed once again by autocracy. we just have to hope that if that does happen, the new ruler, the new dictator, will be a lot more benign than saddam hussein. >> john burns, two-time pulitzer prize-winner and longtime correspondent for "the new york times" on the future of iraq, sunday on c-span on "q&a." >> salman rushdie is on the

booktv this sunday did his best known as the author of "the satanic verses." join our three-hour conversation sunday at noon eastern on c- span2, and watch previous "in depth" programs on booktv.org. >> on "after words," former president jimmy carter looks back on his presidency with "white house diary." he is interviewed by historian douglas brinkley. and george w. bush's denmore "decision points -- now more open court decision points." your questions and comments. >> according to the associated press this morning, the nation's unemployment rate climbed to 9.8 in november, a seven-month high, as hiring slowed. employers added only about

39,000 jobs last month, a sharp decline from 172,000 last october. president obama is scheduled to address those numbers, but we've learned that he is an afghanistan a visiting troops could expect to have remarks from him today. commissioner gave the joint economic numbers -- if the economic numbers to a joint committee. here are his remarks.

>> ok. today's hearing with the commissioner will mark the last hearing that i will chair as the chairwoman of the joint economic committee. almost two years ago, shortly after the inauguration of president obama, my first hearing was also with the commissioner, and the news he presented the day was whether gramm. -- was rather grim. the economy had shed a staggering number of jobs. today's news is a little better. we are heading in the right direction, but not as strongly as we wanted. today's employment report showed that the economy added 50,000 private sector jobs last month, making november the 11th straight month of employment gains in the private sector.

we can see that in the charge over there. since the beginning of the year, the economy has added 1.2 million jobs in the private sector, private payrolls grew by an average of seven 9,000 t per month in the first quarter of 2010 -- 79,000 jobs per month in the first quarter of 2010, 124,000 jobs in the third quarter. while job creation has picked up, the unemployment rate remains unacceptably high. this morning's employment report shows that the employment rate -- the unemployment rate edged up to 9.8% in november. in addition to overall private- sector job gains, gdp grew by 2.5% in the third quarter of 2010 due to stronger consumer spending. this the fifth consecutive quarter of growth picked retail sales of risen steadily for the past four months, excluding more volatile sales of cars and

gasoline, retail sales have risen steadily since june. when i became a chair in january 2009, the economy was still reeling from the shocks of the great recession. one of the people who testified was christina romer, and she testified that our economy endured shocks during this recession there were even greater than the economic shocks of the great depression. this committee has monitored the employment situation and track its rebound over the past two years. the joint economic committee issued over 40 reports. in 2010, consistent with its mission to monitor the unemployment situation of the country, the jec focused on job creation, holding hearings on problems in the labor market and

solutions to spur employment. job creation was also the single focus of the jec annual report. while the economic shocks of the great recession will take time to heal, our economy has made progress in the past year. the policies that democrats and congress put into place over the last year, working. policies to matter. we passed the hire act, which has a payroll tax credit for businesses that hire unemployed workers, we passed legislation to promote hiring by small businesses, the engines of job growth in our economy, providing additional tax incentives to small businesses, inserting a $30 billion access to credit loan program, and raised the cap on sba 7a loans from $2 million

to $5 million. we provided additional funding for teachers. the department of education estimated at 140,000 teachers jobs were saved because the increase and funding. we passed legislation to help domestic manufacturers by reducing tariffs. the extended unemployment benefits to unemployed workers who have been hard hit during this recession. it did not raise the number of weeks that the unemployed workers could receive benefits, but it did reauthorize the program so that unemployed workers could continue receiving those critical benefits. however, we are all aware that the latest extension of unemployment insurance benefits ran out this week. for most of the unemployed, the expiration of these benefits will mean that unemployed benefits will stop as soon as they enter the 27th week of

unemployment at a time when more than 40% of the unemployed have been out of work, at least 57 weeks. if congress does not act quickly to renew the benefits, nearly 2 million and put workers will lose benefits during the holiday season -- nearly 2 million unemployed workers will lose benefits during the holiday season. all the preliminary -- although preliminary reports show an increase in consumer spending from electronic -- from black friday, prematurely ending the unemployment insurance benefits program will drain the economy of $80 billion of purchasing power and cost the economy up to 1 million jobs over the next year. according to the nonpartisan congressional budget office, unemployment benefits are one of the most effective tools of boosting economic growth and employment, allowing the federal unemployment insurance program to expire when the unemployment rate is well over 9% would be

absolutely unprecedented. for every recession that is called for congress to provide emergency unemployment benefits over the last six decades, congress has never left those benefits expire with an unemployment rate above the 7.4%. this is a tragic time to break from president -- precedent, and 40 millio -- i unfair to millions of them is counting on these benefits. -- unfair to millions of families counting on the benefits. i go back to -- i yield back the balance of my time and recognize my good friend and colleague on the other side of the aisle, congressman brady. >> like all americans hoping for an economic turnaround, it has

been a difficult two years with members of the joint economic committee, with reports month after month showing americans out of work with exceptionally high rates of unemployment. for folks on this committee, the employment situation is a critical part and no other part of the economic well-being is more important than the ability of our citizens to find productive work. dr. hall has said the difficult task of presenting reports on the bleak employment conditions to us, and has done so in a professional and insightful matter. i want to thank him and his staff at the bureau of labor statistics. i will come -- i welcome dr. hall again this morning. chairman maloney has held hearings on many aspects of the market. i want to thank the chairman for compassion and dedication in the committee's agenda. we appreciate her leadership in

many ways, and i again thank you for your many months and many hours of hard work. senator brownback will be leaving the u.s. senate next year to pursue new duties as the governor of the state of kansas. i sincerely thank him for his services as a member of this committee, and congratulate him on his new leadership position. i thank him and wish him best in the state of texas -- kansas. it is in the front of my mind. [laughter] the unemployment picture unfortunately remains bleak. the unemployment rate increased 9.8%, mainly due to an increase in the number of jobs lost, not an increase in new jobs figures. this month, 39,000 added in peril employment, was a great

-- added in payroll employment, was very disappointing in terms of expectations. nearly $5 trillion of fiscal and monetary stimulus, 101,000 fewer jobs in america that when the recession officially ended. if we were to compare today's 9.8% of unemployment rate to what the white house promised when we passed a major stimulus , they projected that the unemployment would be 7% this month, instead of 9.8%. this economy is held back by consumers doubtful of the president's ability to manage this economy and businesses discouraged by washington democrats and job-blocking regulations. yesterday's actions to raise taxes on the very consumers and

businesses most likely to pull us out of the economy is more of the same economic policies that have hindered america's recovery. economic indications would tell us that we're just making a painfully slow recovery. payroll employment is not significantly different from 17 months ago. but it is to weaken private sector growth is too slow -- it is too weak and private sector growth is too slow. in the ronald reagan recovery, after the severe 1981-1982 recession, total payroll employment increased by 5 million and the unemployment rate had fallen by 3.1 percentage points. why is the current recovery so weak? one of the timeless explanation is this -- witho less than a

month ago before the tax bomb goes off, americans are facing dire uncertainty. we cannot expect businesses to take on large numbers of additional employees when the government is raising costs for employing them gainfully. yesterday's house bill was dead on arrival in the senate. not to be to blunt, but i think it was a dumb economic move. to make matters worse, within a few days, the federal government will run out of money. congressional democrats and the administration is not tending to their responsibilities. the frantic rush to band-aid fixes is no way to fix the economy. anti-growth tax rates, out of control federal spending, and the enormous national debt buildup have -- health care

policies and the failed stimulus -- the burdens and the uncertainty they created contribute to why this economy is not recovering faster economic growth and more rapid job creation -- if we are to see faster economic growth and more rapid job creation, the government cannot take up positions against business, investment, oil and gas and coal production, and free trade and expect the economy to grow. based on minimum wage increases, extension of unemployment benefits, subsidies -- the u.s. economy does not work this way and i doubt that there are any that do. the administration has been hearing much from national leaders are on the world i am hopeful they will listen. i look forward to hearing the

testimony. >> i thank the gentleman for his comments, i must feel that i must respond to some inaccuracies. we have made progress during the past year of the obama administration by adding almost 1.2 million private sector jobs. when you compare that to the eight years of former president bush, this country it lost 663,000 private-sector jobs. although president bush inherited over 8 $5 trillion surplus, he left with a huge deficit and debt. indeed, the last month he was in office, this country lost over 750,000 jobs. the bush tax cuts did not help the bush administration create jobs. in fact, they overall lost jobs and his administration. but with the focus on the economy, we're moving in the right direction under president

obama, and just yesterday we passed a tax cut to all americans, and it's got to the senate and we have moved the process forward. we look forward to the response of the senate and moving in a balanced direction to create jobs and grow the economy. i recognize the distinguished senator, the great senator klobuchar. >> thank you, ms. chairman. i want to thank you for your service on this committee. it has been an honor, and i also commend you and congressman ready for the way you have run these meetings. congressman brady, thank you for your leadership and the court to serving with you on the committee next year. -- i look forward to serving with you on the committee next year. there's a lot of work we need to do odd jobs on the economy, and i guess we start here today. no one is pleased when we have this unemployment rate, but i also think the people of this

country understand that we cannot dig out of this hole in one month. it is a free trade going 300 -- freight train going 300 miles per hour, the way the wall street crisis occurred and everything else in this country. the jobs added in november to the economy -- it is important to note that we're one month shy of one year of employment gains and the private sector, although it is not happening as quickly as we would like. i listened to congressman brady and i agree with some of what he said on export and trade, but we have seen some improvements with consumer confidence, where it has hit its highest level since the financial crisis began, and almost four in 10 americans say that the economy is on the right track. with growing consumer confidence, it is no surprise to learn that retail sales surged up 6% in november, the most

promising start of the holiday season in three years. we care about this in minnesota. it is a serious matter, with of the home of both target and best buy. boast promising lines of customers out there. there are more things we need to do going forward. the work that needs to be done with exports for small and medium-sized businesses. we have to start with a small business bill, but also looking at some of the barriers, the red tape barriers of some of our most productive industries that have the highest potential for exports. as medical devices, largely based in minnesota, where we have seen at 12% decline in fda approval, and a decline in investment, investment going to

europe where the safety approval process goes more quickly. tourism -- we have done a lot with passing travel promotion acts, and can promote our country overseas, and yet when you find out the startling statistics that people in china want to get a tourist visa to visit our country and it takes 50 days average. if they want to go to great britain, it takes 10 days. every day they are in america, they spend an average of $4,000. we have lost in the tourism business since 9/11. i think those are things we should be doing and looking at as we consider how washington can truly help to create private jobs. the other piece of this that was mentioned by the congressman is unemployment. there are a lot of people out there who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own. bad decisions made on wall street have resulted in them not being able to find jobs on main

street. i believe is very important that we continue making unemployment available to these americans. last thing i would say is, in response to some of congressman brady's comments about the tax bills before us, i am very focused on at the deficit right now. today the deficit commission is coming out with their recommendation. i don't think many members of congress would say they agree with everything in that report. . know i don't but at the same time, i am heartened to see that people with diverse political backgrounds, like dick durbin, and people on the other side, like senator coburn and senator crapo, say that we need to advance these ideas and move forward. along the lines of what we're talking about, the bush tax cuts -- of course the middle class needs to have these cuts

continued given the difficulties we are facing. but when we go to the upper end, to the million-dollar level, millionaires, people making a million dollars a year, they've been getting an average of $1,000 back from the tax cuts. if we look at some of the recommendations from the deficit commission, we would be binding ourselves if we did not at least the choice of someone making over 200 to $2,000 -- over to $50,000 -- $250,000 a year or $1 million a year. it is a type of change, and as we look at getting our country out of the economic rot, reducing the deficit will be key to give confidence to the markets, and will be better for those -- for the children in harding did that. -- for the children in her team

that get -- inheriting the debt. millionaires would still get the bush tax cuts, then it would certainly reverse the clinton white read that you very much. -- reverse the clinton way. thank you very much. >> i want to introduce mr. hall. he served as chief economist for the white house council of economic advisers for two years under president george w. bush. prior to that, he was chief economist for the u.s. department of commerce. he also spent 10 years at the u.s. international trade commission. thank you very much for public service. we recognize you for as much time as you desire. >> madame chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the employment and unemployment

data released this morning could not implement erroll -- released this morning. the jobless rate had been 9.6% in each of the prior months. payroll employment increased by an average of 86,000 vermont since november 2009. in november, temporary help services and health care and jobs -- temporary health services and health-care added jobs. temporary halt service employment increased this month. in november, health care rose by 19,000, including 8000 in hospitals. thus far come in 2010, the health-care industry has added an average of 21,000 jobs a month, inclabove the line of average monthly growth in 2009.

there were declines in department stores and furniture and home furnishing stores. other major service providing industries showed little employment change in november. manufacturing employment changed little over the month. following job growth earlier in 2010, factory employment has been relatively flat since may. mining employment continued to trend up. measures from the survey of households, the unemployment rate edged up to 9.8% in november. 15.1 million persons unemployed in november, 41.9% had been jobless for 21 -- for 27 weeks or more could the proportion has been essentially unchanged since august. there are 9 million individuals working part-time for full-time work, the same as in october. the labor force participation it was unchanged on this -- among

those outside -- the labor force participation rate was unchanged since november. individuals are not looking for work because they believed no jobs were available to them. in summary, the rate edged up to 9.8% in november and payroll employment was essentially unchanged. my colleagues and i would be glad to answer your questions. >> thank you, commissioner paul. this my last hearing as chair of the joint economic committee. i would like you to give us the best news that you have, the best news that you have on the economy. >> there were industries that did grow this month in terms of employment. temporary help services rose, there also added jobs --

healthcare also added jobs, hospitality employment edged upwar. and a little cited number, the infusion index, giving an idea of how many industries are going and how many are losing employment, was 52%, meaning that more industries are adding jobs than reducing jobs at the moment. i would say that those are the highlights. >> thank you. that is good to hear. how does this recovery compared to the recover from past recessions that were not as deep as this one? >> the last two recessions both had slow recovery is relative to other recessions. so far, this has fallen in with those last two recessions. we are probably the old head of the recovery in -- a little

ahead of the recovery in the 2007 recession. and recessions prior to that are a bit deeper. >> is there any evidence that the holiday season hiring will be merrier than last year? >> the early employment bill in october -- buildup was a fair amount had from last year, but in november, the employment build was a little less. in terms of employment build up over the holidays, about the same as last year. >> does it look like over- qualified workers will still fall positions that i have gone to less skilled or younger had skilled workers -- that might have gone to less skilled or younger-skilled workers? >> we count the numbers, and it

is not obvious in the weeks left what the answer the question is. >> could you give us a rundown on demographic groups on recovery? how to african-american man fair, african-american women, hispanic men and women? how are they fairing in the employment situation? >> for african-americans, the unemployment rate went up a little bit, at 15% for november, which is quite a bit higher than the 9.8% overall. for hispanics, it remained 13.2%, also quite a bit above the average unemployment rate. both rates are well above the on the planned rate prior to this are the recession -- about the

unemployment rate prior to the start of the recession. >> and the higher rates of unemployment among women who are the sole supporters of their family -- are these women still experiencing extremely high rates of unemployment? >> the answer is yes. the unemployment rate for women who maintain families is 13%, well above the unemployment rate overall. >> and other women that are not canceled families --, who are not heads of families, unemployment among women generally? >> 8.4% to 13 is quite a bit higher. -- 8.4%. 13 is what it higher. >> dr. hall, last month, a 15.1 -- 15.1 million are now unemployed, cannot find work.

i thought it was important, the analysis that compared the severe recessions prior to 1990 -- 1981, 1982 -- that was much quicker recovery. this is about 2-3 times slower than the ronald reagan recovery of 1981, 1982. i'm going to ask you, given how slow it is going, how many years it will take to get to the bush- year average unemployment -- and if i could, psychology really plays a key role in recovery. yesterday's vote was an example of how discouraged job creation

who you areout ho looking to tax, consumers in the upper income brackets, who control went out of every $3 going into our retail -- 1 out of every 3 dollars going into retail stores. small businesses, which are the driver of job creation in america by far -- half of all small businesses will be taxed under the new law. if you just look at the numbers, it is about 3%, and that 3% is the most productive and treat them as revenue and the most jobs. -- create the most revenue and the most jobs. it is hard to believe that either a hammering consumers who can help pull us out or small

businesses that can create jobs is a good economic move. i also question the myth about money going to reduce the deficit. in the last two years, if you look at the seven, tactically 8 bills that have gone to the white house -- technically a to bills that go to the white house that raise taxes, like the tax increase be voted to do yesterday, can anyone white shirt -- anyone wager how much of that goes to reduce the deficit? the answer is zero. it is like being way over your credit card limit, you ask for help, you pay down and take the money and not only to you not pay it down, but you add to the deficit. most people understand that myth that the money will only go to uexpand government having

said that, i am appreciative of how difficult economy is, the lower unemployment rate we had prior to president obama, and how many years will take us at this rate to get back to the 5.4% average? >> i think the way i would characterize what is going on right now -- we have had steady job growth all of this year. that is good. 961,000 jobs added this year. that comes to about 86,000 vermont. -- 86,000 per month. danita growth in payroll jobs to accommodate the growth in the labor -- you need growth in payroll jobs to accommodate growth in the labor force. what a 34,000 to break even. so far this year -- 134,000 to

buy even. so far this year, it is not enough to lower the unemployment rate. it makes it really kind of impossible to calculate how long it is going to take, because we need stronger growth to lower unemployment. >> have there been projections you are aware of? >> no, i tend not to look at them. in the actual data, we stay away from trying to forecast this. >> my sense is that last christmas time, it looks like it was starting to pick up fairly strongly. economists were estimating it would take four to five years. now the economic growth is slowed by almost half. we're looking at heading towards -- hopefully not at the end of this decade, but clearly being extended every month. i hope we can get to a more

robust 200,000 and above in order to get the 15 million people back to work. thank you, dr. hall. >> senator klobuchar. >> thank you very much. i'm curious if ec geographic trends, commissioner phall. when we were in the midst of this recession, there was a patchwork of which states were doing better and which were doing worse. i wonder if you see any regional differences in terms of improvement. >> i am not sure there is a clear pattern. i can give you an idea of four different regions are at this moment. in the northeast, unemployment is at the low period, and in the west, it is down almost 8% --

>> when you mean it down, you mean unemployment is down more -- >> the number of payroll jobs -- >> so the west, ok. >> other than that, the state patterns month-to-month are hard to -- >> i know that these numbers lag behind where your number is for today. >> they lag behind a month. it is not too old. the highest unemployment rates, puerto rico, nev., michigan, florida, rhode island -- those are all states with particularly higher -- >> the lower unemployment states? >> north dakota, south dakota, new hampshire, vermont, and a lot in between. no obvious pattern. >> how about small business hiring? earlier this week, automatic

data processing reported that of the 93,000 private-sector jobs at last month, 54,000 were greeted by businesses with fewer than 15 employees. and the data that supports that, kind of an indicator for future economic growth. >> our take on -- our data on this lags behind what of it. our most recent data as only something like may or something like that. it still lags behind a bit. the job loss in this particular recession was really spread out. the much higher job loss was in small establishments in the last recession, for example. i think the recovery so far, at least the early part of this year -- a lot of it was in the larger establishments and not so small -- not so strong in the smaller ones.

>> our employment is at 7.1%. we are number one in the country per-capita for fortune 500 companies now. explain part of why we had -- that would explain part of why we had a lower unemployment rate. the part-time job openings -- we find in our state it job openings went up 32% in november, but many of them are for part-time jobs. usc in increase in part-time jobs. how many have the scene -- have you seen that would like to work full time but are working part time? what you see as the trend for that? >> that has not changed a lot over the past few months. it has changed a little bit, but not a significant amount. --and the veterans' numbers

you know i asked you that every month. i find it disconcerting and discouraging that our veterans come back from iraq and afghanistan with high unemployment rates. when there were last here they worked a job and now the job is not there and it read a disadvantage. >> -- they are at a disadvantage. >> 10%, as opposed to 9.1% for non-veterans. >> at that and better lately? -- has that got better lately? >> it is hard to look at this month for month, but it is up from 9.6% a year ago. it has built up over the last 12 months. >> there are proposals, i will not get into them now, that could help them get jobs.

and the number of long-term unemployed americans -- i recently got a letter from someone in minneapolis who said "i lost my benefits in august and have still not been able to find a job i don't care about minnesota's unemployment rate being lower. unemployed is unemployed." do you >> the number of long-term unemployed and not made a lot of movement. it has been over 4% for over one year now. that is an extremely high level. >> you see my interest in some of these longer-term competitive issues and looking at ways we can get rid of some of the obstacles for creating private- sector jobs. given that 95% of our potential

customers are outside our country, i believe that is the way we are going to get all of this. right now, we are hanging in there and doing much better than we were a few years ago. but still not getting to the point where we want to be. correct? >> yes. >> thank you commissioner. -- i am november's sorry. i did not see you. >> thank you, madam chair. i want to thank you for your leadership in addressing the sensitive issues and get caught -- and difficult issues and the reports. the research the staff has done under your leadership has been extremely helpful to the entire

congress. commissioner, how are you doing? >> good. >> what is the impact of these trends on wages? >> the productivity trends' impact has been high. what happens in the early stages of a recovery is that the trends are high. businesses bring back people. that has been happening with the last productivity numbers. they were below 2%. that has not been reflected in rate -- wage growth. the average hourly earnings only grow under to% over the past 12 months, which is -- 2% over the

past 12 months, which is low growth. >> companies are discovering they can do more with less. do you think that is part of the problem? >> i think that is part of what is going on. it is something we can see when we go shopping. you can see that the use of technology has changed. that will be one of the interesting things that we will see when this recovery strengthens, in areas like retail trade when we have productivity improvements. >> i am always concerned about those over 50. what are the employment trends among workers over that age? do these older workers

constitute more of the long-term unemployed? that is the zone that is a difficult one. employers are not agents to hire older people. -- are notanxious -- are not anxious to hire older people. >> the makeup of the long-term unemployed is a concern by age. the older workers, by example, 65 and above -- the meat duration of unemployment is about 30 weeks -- mean duration of unemployment is about 30 weeks. that is part of the reason why the unemployment rate is so high.

unfortunately, the longer someone is unemployed, it takes them longer to find work. >> that leads to something else. we have this discussion going on with regard to increasing the age when people become eligible for social security. as you do your numbers, i am assuming you are looking at people are retired. you almost have to. are you finding that people are retiring later or earlier? or with your numbers yield any kind of information like that? are you following me? in my district, a lot of people, by the time they get to be 60, because of the difficulty of their doubts, they almost have to retire. in other words, people may have a job where they are sitting down.

at the age of 70 or 72, that might be a good 8. are you finding people are retiring earlier? what are you finding is going on there? you have any information there? >> what we are seeing throughout the be session is that the older folks are staying in the labor force longer as opposed to dropping out. >> ok. >> i am sure there are a number of reasons for that. a lot of people have lost a lot of asset value in their homes and their stocks. financially, it might have been more difficult to retire than they might have planned 10 years ago. that is the only group whose labor force participation has been increasing over the last

few years. >> in normal circumstances, while they might not be -- you are seeing a slight increase in the number of people who are in the pool to be employed now. is that right? >> exactly. there has been a growing share of people in the labor force who have been unemployed and kept looking for work. by our definition of labor force, it is people who are working and those who are unemployed. some of those people are unemployed. in other areas, after a certain period of job search, they would have left the labor force. they are what you might call discouraged workers. now it seems that people are more likely to persevere. as the commissioner said, they

become long-term unemployed. they continue to look for work in the other times. in other times, they might have been able to retire. as you know, a number of years ago, benefits were much more common. we are much more dependent on 401k benefits. >> thank you. my time has expired. >> there are concerns about the age. the deficit commission is coming out with their report today. there is misinformation out there. people would have to be 28 years or younger to have that recommendation of any kind of increase in the age in which you

could get social security. in addition to that, it is worth looking at that it increases the benefits of people when they reach a certain age and they are older. there is a lot of talk about that right now. it is important to get the facts straight. thank you. >> commissioner paul, what was hall,er's -- commissioner what was november's long-term unemployment rate? >> it was 4.1%. >> what was the highest long- term unemployment rate in the past when congress fails to renew unemployment benefits? >> would this be between 9085? is that the time span?

>> i am asking you. the chart shows 1985 at 7.1%. can you put these numbers into context for me? how many long-term unemployed workers are there now purses in the past when we failed to extend unemployment the -- versus in the past when we failed to extend unemployment benefits? >> we will look up the number for 1985. >> do you have it? >> yes, we do. it was about 1.3 million as opposed to 1.6 million.

>> what share of the unemployed were long-term unemployed in the november versus in the past when unemployment benefits were stopped? >> it was about 4.2%. we have this. it will come soon. >> thank you. >> it was about 15%. >> thank you. mr. brady? >> everyone in the room under 28 sat up straight. it has been helpful for the

deficit commission. but the social security age will have to be adjusted at some point. construction and manufacturing are part of our economy. the most jobs were in manufacturing and construction. manufacturing has been flat since the spring in may. construction employment has also changed little. mining employment up little. construction manufacturing is not what happened to all of those shovel-ready jobs. >> i can only tell you what the trends were. you correctly summarized the

payroll trends. >> there were weaknesses in capacity. the drilling moratorium was put in place hastily. we have shallow water exploration and drilling moratoriums that continue because permits have not been granted to get those workers back to work. drilling permits are not being granted. they are continuing to lose energy jobs. was around 2000 jobs. >> i should have something a little more detailed.

in mining, we gained about 4000 jobs overall. mining of all sorts, oil and gas extraction, eccentric. -- extraction, etc. support activities for mining might include some things. >> it stayed flat as well. thank you. i know we continue to push the administration to get these people back to work. it is the holiday season. i want to reiterate my thank you for the work that you and your

group does. thank you to be leadership. thank you to chairwoman maloney. i know the next session will continue to do good work as well. >> mr. cumming. >> thank you. i want to ask you the president a question. if the president came to you and asked how would you describe the situation and what you think we should be doing? are we on a direct course and how do you see this situation? summarize your support. what would you say to the president? you know i always ask you that. >> in terms of looking backwards, we have had relatively steady job growth this year. we have had about 960,000 jobs

this year, which is good. the job losses have not shrink enough to lower the unemployment rate. it is not unprecedented to have this time where we are waiting to have strong job growth come on. we are going to have to put people back to work. >> if someone says they may not be able to get a job any time soon and what are their best prospects for getting a job and what kind of retraining do they need to do, what would you say? what region of the country do they need to be in? >> in terms of the long-term job prospects, a lot of the service sectors like health care are likely to grow over time in the

next 10 years. there is a changing demographic. there are probably a number of other industries that i do not have on the top of my head right now. we did some long-term employment projections. if you like, we can take a look at that and summarize that. >> i would like to have that. i want to thank you for all of your hard work. you have helped us tremendously and i thank you so much. sometimes your team is unappreciated and applauded. you bring messages that people do not necessarily want to hear. we do appreciate you. we appreciate the staff that is behind you at the office and is looking at us right now. we wish you a happy holiday.

again, madam chairwoman, thank you for your leadership. this is the last hearing of this joint economic committee. >> when that had a chance to examine a variety of critical issues. in the wake of the great depression, this committee was established by the employment act of 1946. it seems appropriate that the first hearing and the last hearing of this congress has been on the employment situation. dr. hall, we want to thank you and your team and your staff or all of your hall worked for appearing before us and for your professionalism and your public service. i would also like to thank the other member of the j.e.c. i have thoroughly enjoyed our spirited exchange of ideas. i would like to thank senator

schumer and the senior house republican member, mr. brady. this is the last hearing. i will be issuing at least one more report before the end of the year. as the first chair of the joint economic committee, i have asked the majority staff to prepare a comprehensive overview of women and the economy. i have asked the staff to focus on a how unleasing wittman's economic activity will fuel our economic-- women's activity will fuel our economy. thank you. this meeting is adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

conversations]

>> a live picture from afghanistan where we are expecting remarks from president obama. he is his team troops act bagram airbase. we will have live coverage when that starts here on c-span.

♪ >> while we wait for the president, we will go to the swanee's "washington journal." unemployment is up to 9.8%. host: we have asked our guest to tie a ribbon around the that the commission and to comment on the unemployment numbers. it looks like they're not going to get the votes on the deficit commission. there is this idea of deficit

reduction and it will take root in washington. what sense do you get from the people you talk to? guest: there are people who think a lot about the budget deficit. there is a consensus that this has been a useful process. they have put a lot of things on the table. it has created a sense of momentum. it leaves a baseline, something to work from. most people that i talk to, economists and political folks, think there is value in the exercise even if you do not get to the 14. host: people talked about the split between the house republicans and the senate republicans, the conservatives. what does that mean for a working relationship and a plan regarding the deficit and the taxes and the budget and the

incoming house majority? guest: this is such a fluid time politically. it is hard to see how this is going to play out. you have this lame duck session. you have people coming in and looking at their new office is trying to move in. you still have people in place to have the power right now. that leads to an opposite situation. we have new economic news that could shake up things politically. it may make people feel differently on the hill about whether or not to extend the tax cuts. there are all of these ripple effect. people might start thinking differently about extending the tax cuts. maybe new deals will be cut in the next couple of hours because we have new facts on the ground about the economy. host: we have new facts. the nation's unemployment rate

has climbed to 9.8%. only 39,000 jobs created last month. guest: this deal so bad that this will have political ramifications, and then to ramifications. there is a lot of bad news in this report today. it could hurt the white house in the sense that it makes the economy --obama has been in charge of the white house for nearly two years. the economy is becoming the obama open -- the obama economy. it strengthens the democratic position that you should extend unemployment benefits. it strengthens the republican position that you cannot raise taxes when everything is so weak. host: employers added only

39,000 jobs last month, a sharp decline from the number of jobs created last month. -- created in october. private companies, the backbone of the economy, created 50,000 jobs. guest: let me put this into a little bit of a context. there has been lagging optimism. people have been feeling like maybe the worst is over and maybe we will add jobs. they have -- there have been indications that people are doing more shopping at the stores and online. there has been a little bit up

irrational optimism. the october numbers were not great, but not so bad. it look like there was momentum for hiring. this report comes out and it was so bad that you almost question as to whether there was a misreading. the numbers are what they are. usually, the labor department does a good job of capturing what is happening out there in general. most economists were looking for 150,000 dowse been created in november. -- jobs being created in november. 39,000? it puts it into some perspective that we are nowhere near getting out of this job downturn. wages were up literally one

penny. people are trying to fight that and trying to say. wage increases are up one penny. hours worked were not longer. it shows how squeezed the average americans are in terms of their paychecks. host: we are going to continue taking calls. our cameras are stationed in the deficit commission room. we are expected to get some live pictures shortly. they are meeting in the dirksen office building. we will pick it up live at 930 eastern -- 9:30 a.m. eastern. caller: i have two questions. why does it seem that when republicans are in office, they come after us.

i am on social security. i worked for 34 years putting money in the social security so that it would become available to me when i became the age that i am now. the government took money out of social security and spent it on other programs. now they are talking about making social security from 65 to 69. now they are talking about cutting medicaid. why are they talking about cutting from what is helping the people? my son has been self-employed for 14 years now. he has paid taxes every year. he only makes $20,000 per year. exxon can move to another country and pay them a lesser amount of taxes than they would pay here. but they would get a deduction on that tax that they pay. why is it that the republicans

seem to be more interested in helping the businesses and the rich instead of the people who make up this country? guest: i think today's jobs report underscores how much harder on of these debates will come. here is a person who says he paid into social security and he wants to get his money back. he was promised it. he was to keep the system as it was. when you have bad economic news like this, it seems like there will be more people who cannot find jobs and will start drawing on their social security even earlier than they expected. there are people who would like to work until 70, but they cannot find a job. they will retire at 62 and started drawing on what is owed to them. it weakens social security. you have more pressure than ever to do something to make

social security solvent. at the same time, more people will be drawing on it. host: the death the commission is recommending this -- that to telephone calls. is it louisiana? you are on. caller: i want to ask a question about the affect on the

veterans. i am is a disabled veteran. all i hear is that the military deserves the best. we should always protect them. now they are talking about cutting the benefits that we can. me been disabled, i do not have options to get a job or to go look anywhere. they might as well put a bullet into my head. i do not have the options. there are a lot of people in the same position as i am who are coming out of the war. someone talked about the teachers getting too much of a package. who is going to teach our young people to grow up and be the respect with taxpayers who make -- who work and make generous contributions to our economy? guest: i am sorry about your

injuries. on the issue of better and benefits, this is a situation where you have a rising level of unemployment. more people are paying taxes into the system. when you have 16 million people out of work and not paying taxes and wanting to draw on unemployment benefits and going to social security more quickly, you create a situation. it is tough on veterans. government is definitely looking for places to cut spending. at the same time, employers do not have jobs for healthy people, let alone trying to go out of your way to help disabled people get jobs. it is tough all the way around. i am sorry about that. host: senator durbin talks about

one aspect that he said he assisted on, the payroll tax holiday. he said it can create $900,000. can you talk about how a payroll tax holidays can help job growth? guest: anything that you can do to put more money into people's paychecks is a stimulus as opposed to something where you have an estate tax cut where you have to die before it has an impact. that can be a long time. if you have a payroll tax cut, it can mean you have more money in your paycheck right now. now is when we need the stimulus. we see the greatest numbers on retail hiring. they are disappointing. there was some hope that consumers were going to start to spend more. the reality, as far as hiring

goes, is that retailers are not seeing enough of an increase in customers to want to hire more. this probably strengthens the argument to do something to put money into people's paychecks right away. host: the next caller is from missouri. pam, you are on the air. caller: can someone tell me when the cost of living has not gone up? i am here to tell you that the cost of living has gone up. in the groceries, in electric and gas bills. is there a place where the cost of living has not gone up? if there is, i would like to move there. guest: the inflation rate is quite low, especially for groceries. we have the lowest increase in

groceries in the past few years. there are other things that are more expensive. people feel that. medical care prices are rising. tuition prices always seem to go up. in deep prices are certainly rising. a lot of things that people buy on a daily basis are going upper. chellie up your tank is pretty painful compare to -- filling up your tank is pretty painful compared to a few years ago. there is really not that much -- if you go over the cost of groceries, most of them across the board have not gone up. we have seen a rise in the crop prices. corn has gone up. wheat has gone up. probably we will see higher

grocery prices coming. host: the commission is recommending that is $60 billion in tax increases. they include wiping out employer paid tax insurance. -- employer paid health insurance. we have this comment on twitter. guest: this is a motivator for people who wanted to compromise. it really seems like it would be tough now politically for republicans to continue to say

they will not provide long-term unemployment benefits. these numbers show that people are having a tough time finding work. the economy is weak enough that it can use more stimulus. this may cause people to negotiate. it could also strengthen the republicans stance on raising taxes on anyone because the economy is so weak. host: the house votes to extend tax cut for the middle class. there was a symbolic vote scheduled for saturday. there will be a cloture vote on a compromise that would extend

them for people are earning under $1 million. there will be a possible saturday session. next we have a call on the republican line. caller: it is easy to be cynical about how they want to penalize people who pay their taxes, the citizens of the united states of america. we are the ones who pay the taxes along with the corporations, or whatever. joblessness, taxes and all of that go hand and hand -- hand in hand. we have things starting in the united states where people do not pay taxes. i do not want to build by any

group of people. everybody wants to -- villify in a group of people. everybody wants to make money. even though they are making $65 per day, they want a way to help our society out. let's talk about things that people do not want to talk about. let's talk about washington, d.c. churches do not pay taxes. the people who work for them pay taxes. host: i am reading in the paperback non-profit are aware-- reaping -- reading in the paper that nonprofits are worried

that their tax exemption may be eliminated. guest: the mortgage interest rate reduction might go away and we could go to a system where you get rid of deductions and loopholes and lower the tax rate, but have more people paying taxes. that is one of the important ideas in some of this tax reform. host: we have quite a twitter community responding to your grocery comment. a lot of people feel they are paying a lot more for groceries. guest: i go to the grocery store, too. you feel like dairy products are up. the numbers do not show that from the consumer price index. they just really have not gone up. i talked to the general mills

company. the longtime in mid-november. they said it would be in the low single digits on their cereal boxes because of the higher crop prices i was referring to. there is more inflation coming in the pipeline. if you are unhappy now, there will probably be more to come. the statistics selected by the government do not show a sharp rises in food prices. all i can tell you is what these statistics show. they showed that grocery prices have been at the lowest level of increase since 1991. host: next up is michael on the independent line from san diego. caller: i love it npr. i listen to it 80% of the time when i am in the car.

in your opinion and your opinion of long, do you believe it is beneficial or detrimental to our society when 2% of the population own 70% of the well? thank you for your time. guest: analysts -- journalists do not take positions. i can only tell you about policies. opinions are not the npr way. caller: what do you think about the means testing for social security? also, i watched a lot of c-span and a lot of congress and the senate. the guys are up there making their speeches. they make their speeches to an

empty house. then everybody comes in a the and makes their vote and they are there for 15 minutes. they did not listen to the other side. as much as i hate to agree with the catholic church, whenever the they are choosing a p ope, they are there and they do not leave until they have settled the issue. what do you think about that? guest: it is true. i sit in the press gallery watching congress. there are a lot of times when the only people in the room on the people speaking on the floor, two or three reporters and a couple of in terms. it is true that a lot of times they do not listen to each other. it is the system that we have our speeches are made.

they put it on c-span so the rest of us can watch. host: sometimes they put c-span on in their offices. next is a call from iowa. good morning. caller: i wanted to speak to you about the consumer price index and inflation. inflation is increasing the money supply. we have massive inflation. the effect of that is prices going up. the price index has been manipulated in two different appearances. the other was under ronald reagan and the second time was under bill clinton. the manipulation was done this way. under ronald reagan, the basket of goods which would include homes -- if home prices go up significantly, more than rental prices, they would switch from

homes to rental price is, whichever was the lower increase even if one went down. they would switch to that one making the actual measurement of inflation much lower. under bill clinton, it was done for all goods. this include estate prices. host: all right, thank you. guest: when they say you go to the store with the market basket and look at prices, everybody has their own individual rate of inflation. for example, if you had a mortgage that had been at 6% interest and you could refinance to 4.5%. 14.25%, your prices went down

because you were able to take advantage of the lower interest rates. your personal interest -- personal inflation rate would be lower. there are other people who might have to move because of a job and they moved into a higher rate area. their personal rate of inflation is higher. it depends on what you eat. if meat prices go up, maybe you do not mind switching to a vegetarian diet in your cost of living does not rise. it is individualized. what you have children in college or elderly parents who need medication, your individual inflation rate can be different from your next-door neighbor's. >> pictures of president obama as he is about to speak to the bagram air force base.

pick this up what it look like when he left on airforce -- air force one earlier today. it should be just a few more minutes before the president's speech to the troops. we will have live coverage when it gets under way here on c- span. until then, the vice president at at the white house with the treasury secretary and the budget director on the status of negotiations with congressional leaders on extending the bush- era tax cuts. >> before we get on with that discussion, i want to comment today on the jobs report. it means we are seeing private- sector growth or 11 months in a row. that means that since december, we have added 1.2 million

private-sector jobs to the time. in november, the private sector added 50,000 private-sector jobs. there is no denying that the report is disappointing because we were hoping for even stronger job growth. the bottom line is, and what this tells us and makes clear, is that while we made progress creating jobs, it is clearly not enough. there is too much pain out there. there are too many people out of work and try to make do without a paycheck and without the dignity and respect that goes with a job. that leads to an undeniable conclusion. the first is that we need to extend unemployment insurance benefits. earlier this week, those benefits expired leaving millions of americans without a lifeline to make ends meet at a

particularly difficult time as we go into the christmas season. extending that support in this crisis is not only the right thing to do. it is economically necessary for us to do it. the unemployment tax get spent, especially during the holiday season. -- checks get spent, especially during the holiday season. that creates jobs. the report said that not extending these benefits -- if we do not extend them -- we will lose an additional 600,000 jobs. we will lose 600,000 jobs by not extending unemployment benefits. unemployment insurance is a powerful driver of economic growth. it is as simple and plain as

that. you cannot let it be cut off for these families. not only at a time when they need it, but when the nation needs this money being spent and the economy generating new jobs. that is why the president and congress enacted the emergency unemployment insurance benefits and to do so as soon as possible. we must have the unemployment insurance extended. the second thing that the report made crystal clear to me and all of us is that it reminds us that we have to make these middle- class tax cut permanent. to me, it is unthinkable that we continue the uncertainty of the job market and we would risk letting these middle-class tax credits altar. it would have a significant economic -- falter. it would have an economic

impact. congress needs to act now before they leave town to make sure taxes do not go up for middle- class americans. they cannot afford it. the county cannot afford it either. i urge the senate to join the house and meet today or to borrow -- tomorrow to vote on the extension of tax cuts for the middle class. there is nothing we can do that is more important than ensuring that these tax cuts remain in place. bipartisan talks are going on. as those talks are going on, we want to make sure all tax release -- tax relief help. s.

all of the ones we passed last year to make work pay, which has been a fit -- which has benefited 110 million americans -- should be extended in this difficult time. the consequences of letting these lapps are dire. -- these lapse are dire. 2 million americans are going to lose their unemployment insurance. 7 million additional workers will lose coverage over the next year. never before in our history when we had planned at this level have we not extended unemployment. -- when we have had unemployment at this level have we not extended unemployment benefits. people are working harder than ever to make their paychecks cover the bills.

we are going to discuss how we move from here. we are waiting for the senate vote. we are discussing how we as an administration can ensure that middle-class tax cuts are maintained and unemployment benefits are continued. thank you. i am not at bagram air force base. >> vice president joe biden from earlier today. we are live in afghanistan where the president is about to

address the troops. he is going to thank them for their service during the holiday. it will be just a couple of minutes. you can see the presidential seal being placed on the dias. that means he will be speaking shortly. we will have the entire event right here on c-span. until then, remarks from illinois senator dick durbin. he had these comments on the proposal to cut the national debt. >> i received a few flaws in the last 24 hours. some of my -- few phone calls in the last 24 hours. some of my closest friends and asked why is senator dick durbin voting for this proposal?

we have to it now is the deficit crisis of our nation faces. when we borrow 40 cents out of every dollar we spend, whether it is in the pentagon or for food stamps, that is unsustainable. been in that it for generations to china and other bases around the world will not allow us to build a fair and just america. when we engage in the critical decisions about our nation's future budgets, i want progressive voices at the table. we must protect the most vulnerable of our society. today with my vote, i am claiming a seat at that table. to use an analogy that only a senator might use, i do not use this as a vote on final passage. i would not vote for this on final passage. i believe it is able to bank to begin a debate. -- it is a bovote to begin a

debate. it is a debate that we must face. is why i am -- that is why i am voting yes. we need to have priorities that look beyond the dollars and since and to the real world impacts of the budget crisis america faces. i will be working with my colleagues in the senate. we had a meeting with the number of colleagues on the democratic side. as many as 12 democratic senators have expressed their support for our effort bowed they may disagree with particulars, i am sure they do.

at least one doesn't have stepped up and more will follow, i believe. there are several areas where i have strong disagreement. i think a cut in this proposal are too deep and too fast. a balanced plan would split the pain of paying down the debt evenly. as an appropriate to, i will work hard to spend every taxpayer dollar wisely too safe where we can. that is not the same thing as balancing the budget on the backs of those who need assistance most. this proposal takes too much away from proposals -- from programs that support the needy. proposes to eliminate earmarks. this plan does not save $16 billion by eliminating earmarks. capping spending reduces spending and saves us money. eliminating earmarks does not.

on social security, i think we can reach 75 year solvency to the most important program in america revenue increases. i would propose speeding up the way we collect payroll taxes so that we reach the revenue goal, a goal that alan greenspan recommended in 1983, far earlier than 2050. i will use the additional revenue to eliminate benefits cuts that the proposal would create. on health care, there are many ideas here. the fact that we still basically stand by the affordable health care at, the health-care reform act, is a fundamental of my support to this report. there is one proposal that troubles me greatly. i think it is unfair to treat federal employees as guinea pigs