hours, all on line, all free. it is washington your way. to in coming up tonight on c- span, former new orleans mayor needs -- leads the discussion on how african-americans are bearing in the current economy. then, c-span " later, and discussion on how to run the west as a pakistan and afghanistan are -- and how we are ferrying on pakistan and afghanistan. marc morial but spoke at princeton university. this is an hour and 25 minutes.

>> welcome. as you know, we often hold talks at. recast the you assign a our newsletter if you are arent on its prediction -- we ask that he and a sign our newsletter if you are not already on it the there are -- dhunna already on it. we are very pleased today to help honor and celebrate the 100thnal urban league's anniversary. i did a google search of 100 year old institutions. there are not many that are as vibrant and long-lasting as the urban league haor that had the

same prominence. it is one of the oldest historical civil-rights organization in this country. today there are more than 100 local of malia this moral popular --. affiliate's. vice-president of the young professionals at black enterprise magazine and our own huge prize -- price -- high

price -- hugh price. i will moderate a discussion afterward. thank you for coming. [applause] >> let me say good afternoon. let me express agreed deal of expression and thanks especially to professor hugh price. let me also express a great affection for princeton as a graduate of the university of pennsylvania. [laughter] i spent some time out here when i was at the university. once was for a ballgame of which i was a participant.

i do not recall the results. i met a young woman here who became a girlfriend of mine while i was in college. let me also express a great deal of appreciation to the school for focusing on the 100th anniversary of the national urban league. it is important that you mark this milestone. we marked our 100th anniversary milestone. it says something important about the 20th century. it was a century of institution building in the sense that great institutions including many ngos were built in the 20th

century. you can think of many. it was founded and created and nurtured in the 20th century. in the youth serving community, organizations like the ymca and the salvation army -- even if they were founded before the 20th century really found the birth in the 20th century. it was a century of industrial growth and development. the automobile industries, the , the fords rs comed were built in the 20th century.

i like to think of the 100th anniversary is also a time when we reflect not only on just the person-years of the 20th century -- first 10-years of the 20th century by that time known as the 20th century. it would be helpful to talk a minute about the 100th anniversary in the context that as we have looked at the 100th anniversary, we look at it as a time to look back and a time to look forward, a time to look back and reflect and learn, celebrate, and understand and a time to chart a new course.

you create a vision. this was founded in 1910 in new york city by those forces which were sweeping the country in the early 20th century. the early 20th century was a time when there is the beginning of a great migration. it to as the migration of african americans to the great cities of the north. it coincided with the times of the great immigration, those from europe fleeing famine and persecution to find their way through ellis island. there has been much more written about the great immigration then there has been on the great

migration. the great migration our forces would shaped 20 century america. that great migration began to take place in the early 1900 and really beginning after the 1896 decision of the supreme court in plessey versus ferguson which was an act of the trail to the great constitutional amendments 13 -- act up the trail -- act of betrayal to the great constitutional amendment 13, 14, and 15. new constitutions were written in the south. it added 2 to the grandfather clause and stripped away the right to vote, separate but

equal. in reality, a separate but unequal became the law of the land. african-americans reacted to that and left to baltimore, to philadelphia, to new york city, to cities all throughout the midwest in the north east. it was against that backdrop that in 1910 a progressive white woman comed the wife of a railroad man, whose ancestors came here on the mayflower, teamed up with a young african american and collectively brought three fledgling

organizations together to create the national urban league. they were struck by the conditions that african- americans faced a a, crowded conditions, unhealthy conditions, and joblessness, homelessness, malnutrition. they wanted to respond to it. the protegee -- haynes himself found his way to new york city as a part of the great migration. they came together. in the early days, it is about

providing social work to african-americans and urban communities. like so many, they built itself by creating a network of affiliates. there are 98 of these affiliate's. they have served 300 communities in 36 state including places like anchorage, alaska and smaller communities like peoria, inois. we have held true to the system

of being a direct services organization. it was involved her out the years in the thirties in the forties and the fifties. there were trying to open the doors to the unions that control jobs in the industrial sector, trying to open the doors to jobs and the war sectors. but they were working on a whole range of very important initiatives to help them achieve the economic mainstream. it was in 1960 but i believe one of the historic point in the history of the national urban league to replace. whitney young became the president and ceo. he had been in the dean at the school of social work at atlanta

university he had been a friend of dr. martin luther king. as a result, he believed they could not simply be an organization that directly served african-americans. in needed to be the part of a voice, a new emerging civil rights voice. whitney young thjoint with dr. martin luther king and became known as the "big six." he was in washington at the lincoln memorial. was there when there was an effort to push

president johnson on civil rights and actually signed up passages of the civil rights act. he carved out a unique role for the national urban league in the 1960's. he began to work with the captains of american industry, ms. saying to them that american business had a state and a role in post as civil-rights america that business american especially had a role in rebuilding the nation after the riots of 65, 67, 68. it was whitney young that worked with president kennedy in 1962 of one of the earliest component of urban policy.

president kennedy as simple -- assembled his cabinet officers to meet with whitney young with affiliate's leaders from around the country. he was followed by the legendary vernon jordan continued on this path continued by john jacob and hughfollowed by a fhigh price. he was in the streets and in beat sweet -- t he she suite ta. " i had a very special privilege in 2003 to succeed

him and followed this incredible legacy. the united states of america had a team president. there have been a great deal of stability. where we are today in this very unique time in american history, at a time that i believe is both the best of times and the worst of times -- someone said in 1968 that 40 year hence there be an african americans serving as the president of the united states. there would be no less than half a dozen african american men and

now a woman who would serve in the top positions in corporate america. he and they at that time would not have believed that. if he had said in 1968 that by the time to thousand eight rolled around -- 2008 rolled around that african american boys would like far behind african-american girls when it comes to high school grad to ration and college interests -- graduation and reticulation they perhaps my not have believed that. these are the best and worst of times. our work is framed around four important goals. we launched in 2010 a new

campaign called "i am the power" that set for four big goals for the nation in the year 2025. they seek to say where we should go if it is serious about the issues of economic and social equality. the first goal is that every child is ready for college, work, and life. as university students, you may not think it is a radical notion for us to set as a goal for this nation that every child graduates from high school and is proficient in the basics of reading, math, and science. if we can do that, it would change the 21st century.

our second goal involves a very crucial issue of jobs. that every american has access to decent jobs that pay a living wage with good benefits. it is very important as people analyze the american economy -- i had an interesting conversation with a leader from china to talk to me about the increases in disposable income over the last few years in china. he said something that you would think is quite obvious. he said the raid weights, if they do not increase, it -- if there were no wage increase

there be no consumption of the goods and services. but but it goes without saying that in this country the idea of people earning a living wage from the work they provide is not only something that is a just and fair, but it is something that made economic sense. every american has access to a decent job that pays a living wage with good benefits. the third goal is about housing. housing is in default to the quality of life. that goal is that every american lives and have affordable and energy efficient housing on fair terms. while we believe home ownership is one of the key things, we

believe we ought to affirm the idea that people have a right to live and face energy efficient houses. is that everygoal american have access to affordable health care solutions. it was before the passage of the health care bill. the health care bill is probably

one of those important features that set the nation on an important course toward this goal. we chose healthcare solutions. and help the nation is more about access to a doctor -- a healthy nation is more about access to a doctor. it is also about exercise and eating and awareness and help the nation is a strong nation. we have outlined these goals. we invite everyone to go online and sign a pledge to work toward these goals. what we say is that they will to words --orke

towards pushing people toward that in portugal. bid is an organization that has an impact of $1 billion. it has 30,000 volunteers. how the user people? -- ow ohow old are the people?

they paid an average rate to $20,000 a year. it is to create great clarity about the work we do. in 2010, released a six. jobs program --6 points jobs program. we believe there is so much more that needs to be done to create jobs. i am excited about where we are.

you are going to hear from someone who is a member of the national urban league young professionals. i have tried to build on that foundation to where it is today. 50% of the 98 local of believe leaders have been with the urban league less than five years. when we need expanded, one thing that was noteworthy is that so many local affiliates -- when whitney young expanded, one

thing that was noteworthy is that someone local affiliates were young. what i would say to students set here is -- t hat arhat are to look at the nine governmental organizations. this work is as challenging as that wherork. you have to be chief cook,

sprinter and juggler. you do not always have the resources you need at your fingertips. i would encourage you to think about the ngo and voluntary communities. we need people with great intelligence and commitment prepare a i would ask you to consider -- commitment. i would ask you to consider it back to yourive community. we are proud about our past, proud about our legacy. it the first century was about people transitioning. today we serve white americans,

and of disadvantaged people. perhaps what the 21st century is about is helping people transition from an industrial economy to an information economy. we are on the way to helping them transition. thank you for listening to me. go to iamempowered.com.

if you have your texts, you can text to 69866. you can follow is on twitter and facebook. thank you very much. [applause] >> it is always tough following mr. morial. i want to start by saying i'm delighted to be here. thank you for having me. thank you to the woodrow wilson school, especially professor

hugh price. i am here representing the national league of young professionals. does to give you a brief background, -- just to be a beef -- just to give you a brief background, we range in age from 21 to 40, going from chicago to washington. we have over 50 sectors. one area is education and economics, housing, etc.

i served as the vice-president. we hope to give opportunities on a monthly basis. we were the hosts chapter for the national urban league day of empowerment to fight world hunger. we gave distribution bins to the community. part of our mission is to give people the tools so that they are self sustaining. we have to create ways that they can help themselves. another initiative is the technology and education center where people of the community have open access to computer lab ts and programs.

you can come in and sign up for classes for rosetta stone and the basic skills for computers. some people do not know how to open a checking account or an email account. forget wikileaks. they do not even know what a wiki is. as a young professional along with the help of our predecessors -- not every day do you see people who are "young" at the forefront. he made sure we were the people at the meetings with the microphones and having a voice and a say.

in addition, i work for a magazine. -- i work for "black enterprise" magazine which prepares people through financial literacy and also provide tools and resources to vote. we run a concept each month. it'll add to their savings and plans of that nature. i am a marketer. it is not easy making financial literacy sexy. is the last thing people want to talk about. african-americans in particular has a tough time discussing money. we will go into details about everything else but money.

for me, i have the position in trying to find ways for trying to make finance exciting. we have to turn people into the rock stars and celebrities. there are a lot of people doing things in corporate america who have this if not more a lot of -- more. a lot of people may not know the history. i received a scholarship when i was in high school from the chicago urban league.

i looked up the new york urban league. that got me affiliated with the networks. marketer, someone else is a social worker or a teacher or in a sorority. it brings is altogether. -- us all together. yesterday i was speaking about its partners in addition to speak. they were outraged that she would consider leaving a dead dog. when people are fighting to get work.

-- when people are fighting to get work, they did not understand why she was not feeling challenge. i told her that you have to follow your heart and passion. i paid very close attention to media campaigns. many of you may have seen the levi jeans. they have one that highlights pennsylvania. it is not the wild west anymore. it is right here are around the corner in our landscapes. we have the opportunity to create and sustain ourselves so

we can be a mark zuckerberg who created his own business as an undergraduate for them -- as an undergraduate. cop we are helping, volunteering, and during our own businesses and employees in corporate organizations. just to go into the subject, as

far as the new york urban league is concerned, our two biggest goals are economic and education. the strategy is to build an infrastructure. you had to give people the tools to maintain and sustain themselves. we have a lot of support programs in place. we have to help the challenges.

i talk about this a but. ministry sparks at home. a lot of us have family members to our our cousins -- i have a sister who i have to make sure i am a role model for. we have kids around the corner to get d's on their report card on a regular basis. we do not ask them have their day was a what they do in class or to their teacher is, it just the little nuances. people take those for granted. they go so very far. there are plenty a program to looking get involved them. we have the whitney young find and week about scholarships. in addition, we also pair the

person receiving a scholarship to a young professional. with that said, thank you. i'm looking forward to the rest of the conversation. >> thank you very much. it is a real pleasure to serve on this plan will win marc u.s. senate -- on this panel with marc u.s. in a marvelous job to empower african-americans -- who has done a a marvelous job to a power african-americans. it is great and i'm collecting a help dividend. prolonged interaction with princeton students helps ward alzheimer's disease.

we have a very austere time ahead of the spill -- ahead of us. we have seen a lot of breakthroughs in the african- american communities over the last few decades. in 1963, i stood with a couple of hundred thousand other people listening to the speech by martin luther king that echoes and inspires to this day. he foresaw the election in 2008 when he uttered those words heard round the world "i heard a dream -- i have a tree more my four little children will not be judged by the color of their

skin but by the content of their character." the team that my generation never thought would materialize -- the dream that my generation never thought would materialize was with the inauguration with president obama. for me, it is the political equivalent of seeing neil armstrong climbed down from apollo 11 to be the first human being to step on the surface of the ming. that is how extraordinary that event was. real life is not a fairy tale. this is a work in progress. there is much unfinished business that must be done to move african-americans into the mainstream.

we have concentrated on african- americans entering the mainstream. we spoke on campus a couple of days ago. she chronicled the great migration during the 20th century. affiliate's were created all around the country to greet and help them are roundly for -- to help greet them when they arrived. when i headed the national urban league, we are often accused of being a middle class organization. if you are accusing us of trying to help low-income and middle- class folks get into the middle class, we are guilty. that is what we do. african-americans are struggling like everyone else but only worse.

despite our historic leap forward, one out of four african american mi arered -- are mired in poverty. this will get worse by 2012. last month, the unemployment rate stood at 16% vs. the national average of 19%. barack obama ran as president of all the people. it obliges him to try to rejuvenate the economy for the sake of all of the people. if he succeeds in improving public schools and giving health care to the uninsured, that will benefit african-americans enormously. he faces daunting tonnages like terrorism and nuclear proliferation -- challenges like

terrorism and nuclear proliferation. he said he does not have a black agenda and will not initiate new programs aimed primarily at improving the well-being of any particular ethnic group. there are other stark realities today. we hear calls for finance marshall plans. the country tried that in the 1960's with the war on poverty. the track record was not that impressive when it comes to reducing poverty. that may be a hard sell in this day and age. the national commission on reform has terrified everyone about the federal deficit over the horizon. the federal government must scale back spending going forward and not increase it. major new initiatives may not be in the cards.

the economic pain is endemic -- 14% of americans people are now on food stamps. the bottom-line may well be that the calvary is not coming to the rescue of black folks. i may be wrong. i hope i am wrong. what if i am right? i share the euphoria over the election of barack obama. we should coalesce with other organizations and like-minded groups.

we also must be clear i am pragmatic about the game plan that is required. preeti clear ied -- clear eyes and pragmatic about the game plan that is required. when need to mobilize our own community to do what is within our control to empower our people and children to get ahead. that is the essence of about what empowerment means to me. for me, there are 5 core component. one is responsibility, wellness, education, political clout, and economic power. the key to empowerment is not a

government program. it started the assertion of personal responsibility. they should not have children until they earn a high school diploma, it turned 21, and get married. if they do these things first are the chances that their children will never experience poverty. it is essential that male parent shoulder the full responsibilities of fatherhood to being there in earnest for their mothers and their offspring. my dictionary defines it as lifelong responsibility and not a fleeting moment of ecstasy. i've seen commercials of p. diddy selling vodka.

i want to see them selling literacy. a second component is being serious about our health. i teach a course here on combating trusted obesity. the stark reality is air rican americans are disproportionately overweight and obese, especially our children. obesity triggers a debilitating disease seems like diabetes, high blood pressure, and heart disease. obies and overweight kids are more likely to repeat a grade in school and met a couple week of classes. women who obese as adolescents are more prone to have higher

our lives of poverty in lower odds of ever getting married. overweight and obesity is caused by environmental impact. over eating and insufficient exercise also contribute. there are practical steps we can take to improve our own health starting with better eating and exercise habits. the third component is that we must have zero tolerance for low achievement and lousy schools. education is a proven pathway to the american mainstream bill is our best shot -- mainstream. it is our best shot. it to the matters as never before. -- it matters has never before.

in a sluggish labor market, competitors are better educated than ever before. of this competition, as recently as last year, only 16% of black fourth graders were proficient in reading. 52% of them read below basic. the low basic is two notches below grade level. for all the school reform efforts, it has taken 15 years to cut that rate from 70% to 52% . at this pace come into the 2025 before the ratio is under 1/3. that is intolerable.

in connection with an education and employment is crystal clear. if you look at the overall unemployment rate as of last month, people who do not have a high school degree face unemployment. 10% of people with high school diplomas were unemployed. a 8.7% with some college where unemploymed. the correlation is very clear. educators cannot do this alone. communities must not play hooky from the education of our

children. communities need to encourage them to a cheap and reward them when they do. reflex our political muscle by boasting of bombing for barack obama. -- we flexed our political muscle by bolting for -- voting for barack obama. he really had to play the political power game. their other venues were other policies are set predic. we need to monitor the contract negotiations.

lastly, economic powers are called to the rum and a capitalist society prevent it are called to run -- are called to run a capitalist society. we should take it vantage of the opportunities in our backyard. in the 21st centuries, customers will judge businesses by the quality of their products and services and not by the color of the skin been th. we must assume primary responsibility for our own progress. it takes an entire village to

raise a child. it requires that the villages and list for active duty. we must not allow our progress to hinge on prayers. there was no black moses to shepherded those 6 million black migrants out of the south. they embarked on that journey one by one, family by family, propelled by grit and determination. empowerment is not about blaming the victim. empowerment is about devising a clear and i -- clear eyed vision

about what is up. charismatic type and not the only species of leaders. it is critically important for the black church. imagine if the pastors and priests decided that each and every child in their flock of learn to read the good book? surely the villagers can rally our collective energy to propel the rest of the people into the

american mainstream. if we could create medical schools under jim crow's nose, surely we can improve the schools are children attend. they headed for chicago, detroit, new york, and los angeles but the. in the 21st century, it is shorter but may take longer. this i know. when the check map quest for directions from chronic poverty to the mainstream, it is clear that regardless of your station in life and where you are headed, all roads go through education. thank you very much. [applause]

>> do we have any questions? do not be shy. i have some questions preve. >> [inaudible] barack obama ended a contract between [inaudible]

there are political -- the only thing that is promoted is the actual vote. they are holding political leaders accountable. people want president obama to promote specific policies started to ward -- toward their communities. >> i certainly believe the

agenda -- if he can restart this economy that helps the african- american community. it will directly impact and benefits the large number of black kids in schools. extending health care to those who are not insured directly benefits are folks. i think the key for african- americans is to understand how you benefit, regardless of what the label on the program is. bill clinton never had a black agenda. the last president who had an explicitly named black agenda was richard nixon. i would just let that sit there for a minute.

>> my thinking it is i have expressed to the president and every member of his leadership team, i believe that every president has a responsibility to shape policies for the most vulnerable americans, period. every president has that obligation. the health care bill and the bank reform bill are very important pieces of legislation that do, in the case of the health care bill, will help to reduce health disparities in a very significant way. the biggest challenge that the health care bill faces is that no coherent, particulate message has been advanced to explain it to the people in this nation. it and therefore, it is easy for

people to not understand it, although there are numerous provisions in it that are designed to address health disparities, numerous provisions in it that are focused on women's health. the package will increase eligibility for medicaid, which is a health insurance program or health coverage program for people who are economically disadvantaged and pour. it expands medicaid so now men are eligible. to a certain extent, what has been lacking around health care has been the legislation passed, but the voices in opposition to it have been louder, more coherent, more focused, and more understandable than the voices in favor of it. that is number one. on bank reform, bank reform has within it the ability for the

new consumer protection bureau to eliminate and regulate predatory lending, which had it as one of its bases discriminatory features, the targeting of african-american communities. again, the problem with bank reform, and we have been and were intimately involved in both of these is that the voices in opposition to it have been louder, more coherent, and much stronger than the voices in favor of it. having said that, i think what the president, what i encourage the president to do, is to develop economic policies that focus on all parts of this nation where unemployment is highest. it just so happens that most of those areas our urban communities that have high populations of people of color,

but they are not the only communities. you have a role communities in america where the unemployment rate is very high. you have some suburban communities which have been buffeted by the closure and downsizing in the automobile industry, where the unemployment rate is much higher than the national average. to some extent, some of this is shaping all policy that is target in some way, shape, or form, to create certain incentives and beneficiaries. let me give you an example. this is a great example, something that is being played out today. the extension of the bush era tax cuts. the way that it is explained, you would think that they were across the board, proportional cuts. the fact of the matter is they were disproportionately greater

cuts for people at the highest income levels. so if you are down in the lower tax brackets, the tax cuts increase your disposable income by 1%. if you are in the middle brackets, the tax cuts of 2001 it increase the disposable income by 4%. if you are in the highest tax brackets, the tax cuts increase your disposal income by 7%. what puzzles me in the entire debate is that detail has been lost. that is an important detail, because we are discussing this. but i have argued publicly, the one facebook to see it, -- go on facebook to see it, is taking the tax plan that was negotiated between president bush and congress in 2001 and basically chalking it, tearing it up, and

building it. you say let us create a tax plan that will produce jobs, i will concede benefits for higher income americans. but i would like to see greater benefits for working class americans and middle-class americans, at least proportional to the benefits for higher income americans. where accountability and public policy comes then it is with light and sometimes heat. it light means, for example, with health care reform and bank reform, highlighting the fact that the president passed two very significant pieces of legislation that will have benefits for the public but will have a fairly significant benefits for communities of color, disadvantaged, and vulnerable americans.

what has been missed is a good old-fashioned that explanation, coherent, simple, and understandable. so that people say i got that and i understand it and i know what it does. that is what has been missing, on bank reform and on health reform. you cannot start a conversation about public policy without sang, let me tell you, it is complex. the tea party articulated a message in opposition to the direction of the country, around three, four simple points. the government is too big, right, spending is too high, and they got on those two horses and ran and ran, rode the horses in the control of the house of

representatives and a pickup of seats in congress. i believe that this president and every president has a responsibility to develop policies and to target policies that are for the most vulnerable americans, particularly at a time when the economic recession has been at across the board, but disproportionately high in communities of color. my argument is always a rising tide will lift all boats, if you have a boat to ride in. if you don't have a boat, the rising tide will drown you. it from the national urban league's perspective, my view is we have a responsibility that is both too vigorously and

passionately support the president's policies where we think there are in the right direction and to help the public understand them greater. we also have a responsibility to promote, suggest, and to hold the president accountable in areas where we think policy should go further. economic policy, when it comes to jobs policy, is an area where i think much more could and should be done. it the momentum has to be created, and i think if people understood tax cuts, if they understood the more clearly that the extension of the cuts, the extension creates greater benefits for higher income americans and middle income americans and lower income americans, my argument is why not create a new package that

creates benefits for all classes of americans? but let them be a little more proportional and equal? i am giving an example. when people talked about targeting, they always think that you mean special benefits for people of a race. here we have a tax plan that was in fact target. it was targeted to create greater benefits for higher income americans. and that is a point, that u.s. students, had a great school that teaches public policy analysis -- i spent 10 years of my life as a public policy maker, as a mayor and legislator, and learned very much that how you design public policies, that there was a lot of discretion, a lot of flexibility.

all of that, it is a long way, but importantly to answer your question, which is there has to be on one hand responsibility to support the president vigorously, and on the other hand irresponsibility to hold the president accountable. we have a door responsibility. it -- we have a dual responsibility. let me make this last point. in the economic space where we are very involved, we have offered and will continue to offer alternatives, suggested ideas. if he go to our facebook page, go to our website, look at what was said about the tax cuts, a look at the jobs plan, we even demonstrated that are six. job plan was revenue neutral. if you put all of these people to work and they pay taxes, taxpayers paying taxes helps reduce the deficit.

it a long way to answer, but a very important question. >> but there any other questions? >> i have a question about this idea of the united press, particularly in the african- american community becoming more diverse. is that a goal you are pursuing, and if so, what are the ways in which you plan to achieve that? >> we have been uniting a consensus around big issues. that is what we should pursue. i also think that united front

does not stop at the african- american community. it is a broader united front around policies, which are designed to create greater economic equality in this nation. that means supporters are not just african-americans. they are from all backgrounds and races who believe is important in the 21st century to do something about this achievement gap, the high-school graduate asian right. it is important because it is important the economy of the future that continued economic inequality creates a date -- great deal of social problems in the country and will continue. it we also have to be mindful of the fact that black america is much more diverse than it has ever been. where the unity shows out is that the ballot box. the unity shows up mainly in

national elections. but that unity does not necessarily show up in the local races because you have a whole degree of competition. the new order in a lot of communities is black candidates competing against each other, white candidates competing against each other, black candidates competing against latino candidates. there is a new political order in a lot of communities. it is not the classic distinction, the classic competition. it i think the idea is you are stronger when it is a consensus around a large issues, but we have to understand that the community has changed. we are no longer only a community that lives in inner- city, urban communities. we also live in suburban communities, smaller communities across the nation. we are a community with increasing numbers of people of african descent, black people

from the caribbean, who are of african descent, who may be of mixed parentage. it is a different community in some respects. but let me tell you what has not changed, unfortunately, in 40 years, and that is the economic gap between black and white americans and the economic gap between those who have and those who have not. that has been a very intractable sort of thing, but it is not impossible to see, as you have seen more african-americans become middle-class over the last 40 years, and more white americans have become middle- class over the last 40 years, and more people in the middle class. but the divide between the two remains similar to what it was 40 years ago.

>> i think there are bridges within the african-american community that are partly used, but could be used more. i think of the civic organizations that are engaged in activities, tutoring, mentoring. there is much more that could be developed. it is not the total solution, but i think there is some cohesion and opportunities to make more out of that and get some of the lesson gaged organizations involved. eugene robinson, washington post, just read a book called it disintegration, about the african american community and he is skeptical about the possibilities of reconnecting. i am not quite a skeptical, but it is hard work, no question. >> you have a question? this will be the last one.

>> this issue of personal responsibility that he spoke about, in terms of how you foster it. how you in power african- americans to take responsibility and veer away from problems that may have private-sector or philanthropic or non- governmental issues. it how you create a young professional who are willing to be jay-z, but are willing to invest in education or green technology or creating a new political dynamic. how can you do that? i am one of those people here who want to be that person, but are looking for examples. >> i think they do in a number of ways.

starting with young professionals, across the country, getting connected into that network, you'd be introduced into a re -- into an array of people united under one front. a lot of those individuals appear in black enterprise magazine. you'll see that we have a list of what we call the be-100, where we basically point out each and every individual who is doing $1 million-plus in revenue in their industry in every city of the country. all you have to do, you know the power of the internet, look them up and say, hey, this is what i want to do, would be interested? did you attend the national urban league conference and you meet a million more people like yourself. it is not hard to get engaged around the core passion, the

self motivation. i don't find a lack of it, i am sorry. >> i think this is a fruitful area for research. one of the very interesting real-world examples of change in behavior, if i'm not mistaken, and, elizabeth, you may know better than i, there is a noticeable decline in and out of wedlock births among black teenagers. going back up? but it went down. >> it did. >> but it was going down, if it did, and i think it was noticeable. it would be interesting for somebody to find out what happened. was that an accident? or was that deliberate? and what were the forces that influenced the the behavior of both the young men and women in that? because we don't really know why that happened. i remember serving on the commission, and while they were getting their facts together, the rate started to climb. but there is little

understanding, very few people who talk to the young people who understand why it may have gone it down and why it may have resumed. that is something that people in public policy research could focus on. >> there are two people, one is wendell pierce. wendell pierce, the actor, he was on "the wire," a native of my home town. he has been dedicated for five years now on katrina of rebuilding the neighborhood that we both grew up been called pontchartrain park. he has invested a lot of his own money. he has assembled and put together an entire strategy to rebuild this historic neighborhood in new orleans. wendell pierce. he has not sought aggressively attention for his work, but he is a prominent actor, he is a very smart, intelligent, caring

man. you should bring him here and listen to him talk. he is an example of somebody who has used the power of his celebrity and his passion to do something significant. the second one is magic johnson, who has been involved in the national urban league, which just honored him this past summer, but to some extent the celebrity effort, the efforts to give back to the committee of many prominent, public personalities. they don't get the love and they don't get the attention and don't get the recognition. one of the things that you could do here on this campus is to identify and invite those sorts of people. for example, in my hometown, both wendell pierce and brad pitt. brad has come something incredible. he has a lot more attention, right, then when bill has.

what they have done from the standpoint of the committee is equally important. they have put their time, their money to rebuild neighborhoods that others wanted to forget. and you can see the results. i think it is important, sometimes, not to follow up the hype. i think what you mentioned, i have black enterprise in my bag and i carry it with me all the time. there are incredible examples of people out there who are prominent before doing great things, making substantial contributions, that don't get highlighted enough. we know george clooney's work. we know bono's work. they have also been very skillful in making sure, because they have understood that part of the value proposition for the issues that they work on is

bringing public attention, getting on "the today show," the front page of "the new york time," " good morning america," because that is the value proposition, but they're not the only prominent personalities doing important things. i think sometimes that we may not seek them to lift them. the urban league, we are a lot of public personalities and celebrities, and we honor magic, angela bassett, layla ali this past summer, also al alfri woodward. but we did not honor them simply for their professional pursuits but because they're highly involved and engaged in the community. right now, one of things we're working on, quiet discussions going with some nfl people, the

nfl players association, the national football league, and a handful of players about trying to encourage this to get more active and involved and use their prominence around important issues. but i think where you can play a role is when you recognize people, give them a platform to speak, you get a chance to hear them. it sends a message to others that you will get recognized for your community endeavors and pursuits. so i hope that you all will consider that here at the wilson school. >> just as an aside, being that we are all technologically savvy, there are a lot of online communities that you can interact with some of the people, particularly name communities. if you do research, is very easy to get connected with like-

minded people. >> let's think our speakers, and we hope that magic johnson will be the one who is here next. -- let's think our speakers, and we hope that that johnson will be the one who is here next. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2010] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> next, "q&a." after that, a discussion about how the u.s. deals with pakistan and afghanistan. how african-americans are faring and the current economy. thursday, david frum, and william galston. after that, our series on food policy continues with tracy fox,

president of the food and nutrition and policy consultants. she will discuss childhood nutrition legislation's effect on schools. "washington journal," live every morning, 7:00 a.m. eastern on c- span. >> thursday, american universities campaign institute conference continues. tamara's topic includes discussions on logging federal regulators -- tomorrow's topics include discussions on lobbying federal regulators. live coverage starts at 7:00 a.m. eastern on our companion network, c-span2. >> the one thing we have absolutely learned over the last 30 years is that economists and other sages of the economy are not very good at connecting what actually happens. on has writtenelsp

about the economy and social issues for over three decades. he will join us sunday night on "q&a." >> next, an interview with matthew paris, columnist for "the times of london." in 2010, there is a major change in british government. david camera now leads the government in coalition with liberal democrats. at a variety of austerity measures were announced. some have resulted in a backlash. they will face a rise in value added tax, goods and services being taxed at 20% instead of the previous 17.5%. all of this served as a backdrop for argues in london this fall, conducted in the studios of once mr. live, just across the thames river from the house of

parliament -- in the studios of westminster live, just across the thames river from the house of parliament. >> you wrote that the truth is simple, we are living beyond our means. the change, if change what we were prepared to embrace is simple, we will have to live within our means. that was several months ago. >> all of us have had the impression of growing prosperity that seem to be beyond any explanation that we producing or supporting. when people said, i cannot believe what are we getting much richer, why are our house is worth so much more, the reply from the clever economists

tended to be it had to do with financial services, the city. at the added value is taking place. over the last more than a decade, over the last 15 years or so, i had the impression that we were just bidding up the value of each other's houses because property and property values are the cornerstone of the englishman's idea of wealth. bidding up the value of each other's houses, then taking out bank loans on the inflated values, and then on the basis of the bank loan buying more expensive properties, bidding up on property, and borrowing on the back of it and it could not last and it cannot. i am not an expert economist. it all and say as i have the feeling that something was wrong, but i cannot put my finger on what. that is becoming more clear now.

>> back in 2005, your wrote a column and it said this -- >> there was a column that was as much about the united states as about britain. i had a very strong sense that we reached the apparent pique of our imperial power quite a long time after the basis, in terms of economic strength and in terms of military strength, the basis of that had begun to fade. there was a sort of overhang in a way, putting britain on the map.

you could see by then that there was no way that we could maintain all this. we were becoming top-heavy. it was a period that we have the feeling that the same thing would be true about united states. >> open question, what do you do for a living? >> no one ever quite asks that. i am always stumped when people do. i tell people that i am a writer and broadcaster. i like to say journalist, because people know what the term means. a columnist is not a journalist. i think that a columnist is a reporter. those are the people that i admire. that is what i call journalism. anyone can sit back and pen a few thoughts on their opinions

on the way the world is going. that is what i do. i am paid to do what a lot of british people do on the top deck of a bus. that is not a real job, as my father used to remind me. >> how long have you lived in the united kingdom? >> i am really a colonial boy. i was born in south africa. my parents immigrated to south africa. they could not find a home in england. they did not like the apartheid or the racial stuff. they came back with me. they found england to cold after south africa and so they went to southern rhodesia where i was mostly raised. i went to school in swaziland and then my family was posted in jamaica and in spain. at the age of 18, i came back to england as a young man to go to university, and talked with a

very british accent, but does not really understand or know the united kingdom very well. i feel completely british because i belong to a generation of home serving was a british thing to do. i feel entirely british, but i did not know england very well. i have been learning ever since. >> winded to serve in parliament as a member of the house of commons? >> i was elected, the third youngest, at the age of 29 in 1979. i served for seven years before resigning my seat between elections to take a job in television and doing what you do now. my job bombed to >> why did it belong? >> in british television, you need to be a little bit of a comic book character to succeed and all of those people who anybody have heard of it that description.

i was articulate enough and bright and tough, but there is something memorable about them. i let my program to an early grave. >> larry king has been on our television screens for years and he is about to be replaced by pierce morgan. >> that is what appears is going to do. he absolutely answers the profile that i just described. he is a sensitive man, but he pretends to be a bit of a loudmouth. he says all kinds of things that sound wondering and careless. people love it. there has to be intelligence behind the apparent stupidity and for a popular tv presenter, that is what you want.

people feel they can relate to you, but underneath, you need intelligence. >> what do we expect to see when he comes on the former larry king show next year? >> it will be next year? he likes people talking about themselves and being a little emotional. i would not: oprah winfrey. he got prime minister to cry a while ago. he asked questions that you are not expecting. he is not afraid to go deeply personal. >> and when you were in the house of commons, what did you learn about that institution? >> i never entirely found my feet. i failed in a lot of jobs in my life and i say that is one of

them. one thing about the house of commons is that it is a team game. there is a place for maverick individuals, one or two, but only one or two. generally speaking, you get along personally and advance your own career and also to achieve things politically and nationally as part of the team. if you do not have the idea of team work, if you do not have the idea of occasionally biting your lips turning a blind eye, then you do not prosper. the other thing that i learned, and i do not think that american politics are all that different, is that it is a mistake to think that politics

is about principle an argument. principal is not entirely absent. argument is important. it will always cause to difficulties, but in the end, in politics in britain, you are representing an interest and there are a group of people whose interest you are representing. you may care because you are a compassionate person. you are representing the lower middle class and middle-class as much as the upper classes. never forget that. you can tweak them a little bit, but in the end, if they feel that you are not their man any longer, then you are done for. that may sound like a cynical

view, but there is actually a principled defense of this kind of politics. as long as the house of commons and the house of lords have representatives of all interest within it, then fine, let them clash. >> let the best argument win. europe-let the best argument win. leave it to other advocates to have the other argument. there is a principal argument for doing politics like that. >> this is a frivolous thing that i want to ask you about. maybe you do not think it is a frivolous. some time ago, you jump in the water out here and swam across.

why did you do that? >> i did that on the 28th of february, 1978. i would have been 27 or 28. it was just down there on the side of the river. there is a building that used to be the local government headquarters of london and i was working for margaret thatcher as her correspondence clark. it was about 10:00 p.m. and i walked towards the station to take a train home. i saw a girl standing there crying and i asked her what was wrong and they said they took their dog out for a walk before bed and it climbed onto the stone parapet and had fallen in the water and because it is high tide, he cannot find the steps

underneath the water. it was dark. it was high tide. it was windy. i saw the head of the dog going around in circles. this was not courage, it was stupidity. i did not have any idea that the river was so cold. i nearly drowned. just as my strength began to depart my body, after about three minutes in the water, i have gotten close enough to the steps for a hand to reach out and pull me out. margaret thatcher gave me an award for bravery a couple of months later. without that award and the publicity that surrounded it, i would never have been selected as a conservative candidate for ec. >> but then you swam the river. >> that was at the age of 61. i guess my career was founded on the river.

i have a flat on the river looking across, further down. ever since i moved in 15 years ago, i said that i was going to swim across that river. you cannot live by the river and a swim to the other side. i kept telling people that i would then it became a joke. thoughting, i suddenly that now was the night. i waited until what i thought was high tide. i did not realize that high tide is given in greenwich mean time. this was the british summer time. i got the time of the tide it wrong. swam an hour before the tide turned and a friend came with me. we did not have lifejackets or a boat. there have to be a risk that you would die or it would not

be real. we were swept a mile upstream by the kurds. -- the thames. we were in there for about half an hour before we came out shivering. >> you got some criticism for that. was that fair? >> completely fair. the harbor master had to read the newspaper and say that this was a dangerous and irresponsible thing to do and to not try it at home. that was his job. but i would do it again. >> if you are looking at great britain from the united states, and you cannot figure route what is going on with all the cuts, can you explain to was house of your the economic cutbacks are here? >> they have not yet been, but they are going to buy. people are beginning to see where they are going to bite.

one has to get an impression of the bloatedness over the past 10 years. we have almost doubled our expenditure on our health care. nobody doubts that the service has gotten better, but it has not gotten twice as good. we have gotten to 8% of gdp. we have virtually doubled it. everywhere you go, schools, school buildings, welfare, the way the state help to when you are unemployed, they have soared.

the malingering claims have grown. things have increased. expenditures have increased by 40 percent, 50%, 60%. a majority of our wealth has climbed to around the 50%. we cannot carry on with this. >> on health care, if you live here, how much of your check do you pay to health care every month? >> i do not know because nobody tells you. it is part of the treasury's general coffers raced through taxation. >> let me ask you about the taxes. as a taxpayer, where do you

start? there is no national sales tax. explain the vat. >> we do not have a state system in the way that you do, so we do not really have smaller units of government within the overall state that is capable of organizing their own budgets. almost all of the expenditure is raised by the central state and spent by the central state. it is a mega-sales tax. it is value added so that each individual along the chain, from the production of an item to the final sale of an item pays tax on the proportion of value that has been added while

it was in their hands. from the point of view of the ordinary citizen, all you know is that the price, when quoted, you add 17.5%. everything except food, children's clothing, newspapers, magazines, charities, there are a few exempted items. >> to you have a property tax? >> not really. we have transfers of property, so whenever you transfer of property, you pay a portion. we have domestic rates. this is for your local authority, your town hall or whatever.

you pay a tax according to the value of your property. >> and go to the council tax. what percentage of your property do you pay per year? >> i think that i pay about 1,500 pounds a year. >> something like $2,500? >> $2,500. on a property that is $2 million, it is not enormous. >> in the united states, you pay somewhere near $15,000 for something like that. what other types of tax? >> the other big ones are excise taxes on tobacco, alcohol and fuel.

we pay a huge amount of tax on fuel. i think more than half the cost of a gallon or a teacher is tax. >> a leader is three or four liter to a gallon? how much is a liter of gas here? >> it is more than two pounds. nearly $4 a liter. >> just for a liter. >> the greatest part of a bottle of wine is the excise duty. those taxes are causing difficulty for the government. we are all in this together and

people are getting onto the ferry and crossing the channel with trucks and coming back loaded with beer and cigarettes. the exchequer is being deprived. equalizing of taxation is going on across the european union caused by the fact that if one country charges more tax, people will go to the other country to get it. >> in january, we will have a republican house of representatives and a democratic senate. and a democrat in the white house. david cameron is the prime minister and he has proposed all of these cuts. will you automatically get these

cuts? >> pretty automatically. people who follow british politics may think that they are broadly to terrible, the british of the united states. your president is like our prime minister in that you have your parliament and we have to of hours. our prime minister has more power. the house of lords has very limited power. it has no power over anything that raises money. it has no power in the revenue department. they only have the power to delay. they can keep sending bills back that it does not like until a year has passed. and then the thing will go through anyway. the house of lords is not democratically elected, it is appointed.

there are plans to reform that. whether that will come about, nobody knows. it has no democratic legitimacy. it has expertise. when the british look across your system, it looks like you have two arms of government to oppose each other. >> if our president selects the treasury secretary, she goes before congress and has to be approved. hear, who decided who would be the chancellor of the exchequer? >> it would not have mattered if the whole of the conservative party and the nation were against it, the prime minister appoints his cabinet. >> you have a coalition government for the first time since when? >> there was a coalition

government in the 1930's of a kind. then of course, during the second world war. during the 1970's, we had an arrangement between parties. they have been weak kneed things. no one has any real experience with a willing coalition between to quite strong parties, when joined together, when their forces are joined, they more or less agree with each other on policy. this is a healthy coalition. they can not only carry on for

five years, but also the next election. >> i am a member of the conservative party. i stand for what? can you delineate between the conservatives and liberals and the labor party? >> if you were to draw a continuous spectrum from what you might call the left to the right, the conservative party tends to occupy the right hand third of that spectrum although they are extremists. the liberal party is in the middle third -- that would be wrong. there are some level will mps. they are liberal in the old sense of the word.

liberal means belief in individual freedom, a belief in individual liberty. >> like a libertarian? >> you can be a libertarian, but there are low tax liberals as well. it is a belief in freedom and a belief in freedom. >> let's say that you have the correct or for the afghan war. if you're conservative, what is your position? >> if you are a conservative, it ranges from being against the war all along to being a really enthusiastic person in favor of it. you have the feeling that these are rather typical policy adventures where we have the duty to support the united

states even if we had doubts. liberals are almost all against both wars. >> we saw tony blair as the head of the labor party. what is the labor party position on the war? >> they got themselves in government supporting the americans. tony blair tended to support the americans because he was sure it do. the rest of the labor party was not persuaded of that. most of them took the view britain as an engine partner of the united states, has to support united states. >> if you are a conservative member of parliament, where you stand on the vat tax. >> they are in favor of the vat. tories do not like capital gains taxes because they are a

business minded party. they are not that keen on income tax because they represent a lot of people that pay income tax. >> what about the liberal party members? are they for the vat tax? >> they have been for and against it at different times. >> what about the labor party? >> anybody that is in government or wants to be in government has to have a sneaking regard for the vat tax because it is an easy way of raising money and is a very difficult tax to avoid. >> if you live here, when will

all of these new cuts come along and if they do come along, when will we see change if you live here? >> generally speaking, new money will not be allocated to people who were expecting it or think that they wanted. the cuts will bite with progressive ferocity. we are not going to see cancellation of a great many huge government projects. the government is trying to keep infrastructure reasonably preserved from the cuts. the coalition has said that there will be no cuts to health care. internal inflation within any health system is always higher than retail price inflation nationally. the health service is going to be there. waiting lists may get a little longer. education, which was supposed to be protected, already a new

school building program has had to be canceled. the biggest one will be local governments that is to say all the town halls and the county council's all across the country. they rely on most of their income from central government. this is going to be considerably diminished. they will have to lose a lot of their staff, which they will do through natural wastage. >> this country of 60 million people, 500,000 public jobs will be eliminated? >> yes. it is important to point out that half a million people are going to be sacked tomorrow.

it will be done by not hiring new people and old people retire. the hope is that the private sector will take up the slack. it may be an optimist koop, who knows? >> here is a paragraph from a column that you wrote. you say that it was at miami airport on august 17, 2004, as i stood musing for two hours in the alien's queue for fingerprints. what does that mean? where were you? >> i was traveling from europe to south america. the common way to go is using one of the american airlines to miami and changing in miami. i understand that the situation

has improved. every time i have tried to use that airport, it has been extremely difficult. most airports across the world, if you are in transit, you never go through customs or immigration. you get onto the next plane. in miami, you have to go through the whole thing. you have to formally enter the united states and half an hour later, leave the united states. the queues used to be horrendous. people are quite severe and quite rude to the public and quite bossy. the consumer culture is held up to the world as good customer

service. >> can you give me an example of where you see the public officials being rude to the american people? >> a woman that i was travelling with waited in queue for about three-quarters of an hour. that was the waiting time. she jumped the gun and move forward across the line before it was her turn, thus standing in the prohibited zone between the line and the officer's desk. the officer, another woman, shouted at her to get back and then told her to go to the back of the queue and start again as a punishment for having stepped

over the line. you would never get that in britain. you do not get officials handing out summary justice and punishments to people in queue. >> what is happening with television here and the bbc? one of the things that seems to be under way is the bbc moving from london up to manchester. that is costing $1 billion and maybe more than $1 billion. then you hear about firings coming along, cuts made to the bbc and changes to pay for the world service. >> there are trying to devolve the bbc from too heavy a concentration on london and that has been going on for about 40 years. this is one of the boldest moves, but it is part of the philosophy that the corporation has adopted from the start. it needs to be the british

broadcasting corporation. it should not be the london broadcasting corporation. i present a program that is produced from bristol. >> where is crystal? >> it is about 150 kilometers to two hundred kilometers to the west of london. i never go to bristol. i interview them in london, but it is produced in bristol. unfortunately, and their arguments to be made for doing this, if you're going to have a state broadcasting corporation, let it spread itself widely around the state. there are times when the bbc is under severe pressure. they will not be able to increase the license fee. >> how much does the average

brit pay for a television license a year? >> i have forgotten, but it was about 150 pounds to 250 pounds. >> about two hundred $50? >> yes. if the bbc is under a lot of pressure financially, they are also under a lot of political pressure. the director general gets nearly 500,000 pounds which is approaching approaching $750 million a year.

they sign contracts that appear to be absolutely lunar. >> how about your on-air people? in the united states, one of our anchors makes $15 million a year. >> if you are a big name, jonathan ross is one of our big names. if you are a big name, you do really well. the others are not that that well-paid. this has unfortunately coincided with a squeeze on the corporation's revenue. it is an expensive plan to devolve the corporation. i would not like to be director

general of the bbc. >> i read that several people quit the bbc when they announced the move. i guess the move has been known for a couple of years, but they announced the move to manchester. a sports announcer and others just quit. some did not want to live in manchester. how extensive is that? >> it is quite extensive. some people will commute by train. >> how long does it take? >> it takes about 2 1/4 hours. you have a larger country. you do not have one huge center of gravity. a lot of british people think this about america.

they think that new york is the united states as london is to the united kingdom. not so. a lot of the tile that there is, culturally, socially, it gravitates to london. almost every big corporation would feel the need to have its headquarters in london. the civil service is in london. the legislature is in london. we are not a very big country and we are hugely centralized country. this has been the same, the labor of the government to try to devolve talent across the regions. >> for years, the bbc world service which can be heard all across the united states was headed by the office here in great britain. i understand that it is supposed to be funded by the bbc itself. is that true?

>> i remember when the world service was funded by the bbc and then it was decided that it would be funded by the foreign office instead. everyone thought this would be a disaster for the world service. it with his become an arm of british foreign policy and they would starve it of money and try to direct its operation. that did not happen. it has prospered under the wing of the foreign office. i do not see why it should not prosper under the wing of the bbc. the bbc has much bigger global reach, not in terms of the world service, but in terms of other activities and its marketing and its books and its videos. i think that the bbc is a conscious of the world.

>> out independent is bbc and the fact that it gets its money from the government. has that worked in your opinion? >> if i was arguing before an american audience, i would say that it is extraordinary how independent the bbc is. do not think that this is a state broadcasting corporation like the russian one. it is not. it is really independent. it does what it likes and often falls out of favor with government and it criticizes government all the time. if i am arguing with a british audience, we are a bit smug about the bbc. i would argue that it has got a pretty good degree of independence, but if you are the state broadcasting corporation, you darn well are the state broadcasting corporation. there are things that you do not do. there are things that you do not say.

there are programs that you do not make. this does not apply to the leaner rivals that the bbc competes with. >> you were a conservative member of parliament. are you still a conservative? what would you define your politics to be today? what you feel strongest about? >> i am still completely and deeply conservative. i was a conservative as a student, as an undergraduate. i have never wavered. i am a conservative partly because i hate socialism. i hate collectivism. i saw what a creeping collectivism was beginning to do to the united kingdom and any party that is going to resist the collective approach

to human culture and autonomy is gore to be my party. i have always been a liberal conservative. i have always believed in a degree of compassion for the poor. i have always believed in individual liberty, which some of the right are a bit chary about. i think it has a civilized influence on the conservative party and i think it has a growing up influence on liberal democrats. i think that the role and strength and the potential schilling of the culture of the

state depends on how much money it has to spend and how much money it gets from the taxpayer. the battle to push back the frontiers of the state in the battles to push back the amount of money that the state is claiming from the individual i think is the absolutely central battle in the first half of the 20th century. i often say we when i should say they. >> have you ever talk about the percentage of your income that goes to tax? >> yes. i have not made a total calculation. i do not need to. it is something approaching 60% of my income -- it would be in something more like 70% if you take the excise duties, the income tax, the capital gains tax and another one that we have not even mentioned called

national insurance. i reckon that for every 100 pounds that i earn, i would be lucky if i get to spend more than 40 pounds and it may even be less than that. incomes are higher because they are not worth as much after tax. people that get benched for people near the bottom and near the top. the lower middle classes try to survive on a joint income of 40,000 pounds. they pay 30,000 pounds of that back.

>> if you get sick, you can go into any hospital and get treated? >> that is true. you will not pay for health care for your education. for everything else, you pay. >> you have been openly gay and a member of the conservative wing of politics in this country. if you were in the united states, that might not be easy. why have you been so open about it? >> it might not be easy, but on the other hand, you could find a range of people on the right in america to basically give exactly the same story that i am giving which is to believe in homosexual law reform and believe that gay people are equal citizens and that relationships between people of the same sex are not anti- social, dangerous, or personally damaging.

they believe in a small state. the state should not travel over people's private lives. these are things that conservatives ought to be able to support. dr. andrew sullivan in the united states and you will get the same story from him that you will for me. millions of other conservatives. >> how long have you been with his partner? >> i have been with my partner -- we met and grew closer about 15 years ago. we got a civil partnership ceremony about four years ago when those things became available. >> you say that ageism has settled in. >> a lot of older gentleman say that you are as old as you feel.

i am not afraid of old age, but i do not like old age. i do not -- i am not afraid of the end of the summer holidays, but i do not like the end of the summer holidays. i do not want to die. i love life. i want to go on forever. i want to be mentally sharp forever. it happens to all of us at different ages. i know that i am not as sharp in my brain as i used to be. i find myself sometimes struggling to keep a with very quick fire conversations for the tiny things explained to me more carefully. i can see that we are all degenerating all through our lives, but it begins to accelerate after 60 and i do not like it. >> and your partner is considerably younger. >> he is about 20 years younger than me.

in civil partnerships and marriage, one has a responsibility to marry someone very much younger than one's self so that they can have another partner and another life later. >> does he write? >> he writes the occasional editorial. when he writes the editorial, he writes according to the papers policy. he writes a column in which he raises the standard for the coalition. he is one of the few guardian columnist. >> why would he support the coalition? >> he is a little democrat. i do not think he belongs to any party, now.

he is moving to the right of me in his own opinion. but that does not stop you working at "the guardian." in some ways, is more fun to be out of kilter with the majority view at your newspaper. you need voices that will explain the coalition. >> you mentioned education. he said that you do not pay for education here. i heard on the radio the other day that students were demonstrating on the government's increasing the cost of university. private education, here, is public and public education is private? >> we have endless confusion over this.

in the old days, on the whole, rich people would have their children educated by a tutor. quite a lot of rich people decided to set up schools where you pay. the recall public schools. the fact that they were paid did not make them not public schools. then, much later, in the 19th century, toward the end of the 19th century, free state education was set up. we ended up with schools call public schools which are actually private and state schools which are free. >> i heard a young lady on the radio talking to a liberal democrat who was a member of the coalition and she was so unhappy. she kept saying that you lied to me.

i voted for you because you said you would not touch our cost of education and now you are upping the cost of education. explain why she was so upset. >> she was upset about tuition fees. you americans will not find anything remotely surprising in the idea that the university might charge students a fee. we have not had that in the past in britain. it has all been paid for by the government. the labor government, having promised that it would not introduce tuition fees, did, but limited them to $4,500 a year. students could get a loan from the government if they did not have the money to pay those fees and the money would be payable back at a zero rate of interest.

what this government is now doing is raising the ceiling to $25,000 or more. they are slightly changing the loan system so that after you have left the university, the more you get paid, the more you pay back. the liberal democrats, because they are a party that does very well in university terms have been against this and they were unwise enough and realized that it was a mistake and they were unwilling enough to get all of their candidates to sign a pledge saying that liberal democrats would never raise tuition fees. now, they are part of a coalition that has raised tuition fees.

>> there are 650 something members in parliament? >> the conservative party is the majority. that would be about 350 or 340 or something like that. in the liberal democrats, add another 80 to that and they get the overall majority. >> we are about over-out of time. if someone wants to read the body of information that you have written over the years, what is the easiest way to get it? >> i have started an archive of my work, but a lot of it is copyrighted. a great bit of my -- i think you have to pay.

there are better reasons for scaling the wall of news international. >> you can go in there and find most of your stuff. >> i write a weekly diary and a column every saturday. >> the last question or so, what do you think is in store for this country over the next five to 10 years. >> i slightly misinformed you when i gave you the number of conservatives which is closer to 319 or 320. they do not have a majority. the first question is, can the conservatives and the liberal democratic coalition come together until the next general election which they say they will have an 2015.

i think that it can. the arithmetic is all there. i do not think you will see a weak government. if the economy goes flat, the liberal democrats will still like they have been drawn into a much unfortunate experiment. if the economy crashes, whoever is the opposition will win the next election. if the economy goes well, people will think the coalition for making the cuts and making us leaner and healthier. >> what is your guess about the future? are you optimistic? >> i am guardedly optimistic. unless the world economy crashes, in which we would all be dragged down, i think the economy is in good hands.

i will see a low growth for the next three or four years but i expect to see the cuts not hurting quite as much as everybody thought. these are changes that have to be made and we need to approach the next decade in a more fighting condition. >> matthew parris, thank you very much. >> it has been a pleasure. >> for a dvd copy of this program call 1-877-662-7726. for free transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org. q&a programs are also available as as c-span podcasts.

>> the one thing that we have learned over the last 30 years is that economists in other stages of the economy are not good at predicting what happens. >> robert sam wilson has written about politics a socialnd issues for three decades. he will join us on sun state -- on sunday. >>he co-founders of the no labels movement. our guests are david frum and wialston. after that, our series on food policy continues with traci fox.

she will discuss the effect on schools. "washington journal" takes your calls live every morning starting at 7:00 a.m. eastern. friday on c-span, the no labels national leadership meeting. the group was founded by the former pitt -- former george w. bush speech writer david frum. it included a discussion on getting citizens involved in politics. that is friday at 8:15 eastern. >> the senate is often called the most exclusive club tonight. i wonder if it is really so exclusive. if someone from a town of 300 people in a high-school senior class of 19 students can travel from a desk in that small school

to a desk on the u.s. senate. >> surge from farewell speakers on the c-span video library with every program since 1987. more than 160,000 hours all on line and free. it is washington your way. >> now a portion of an anti- terror as some conference looking at u.s. policy from afghanistan and pakistan. this event is two hours. >> thank you very much. i hope everybody got their coffee or tea or whatever beveridge of their choice. we will be talking about lashkar-e-taiba. i will be wearing two hats.

i will moderate and will be given the first portion of this talk. i am joined by sebastian. i will do the introductions before we bring them up to speak. i will try to provide in 15 minutes a broad overview of let. then i will bring them up to speak about their ideology and training. then it sebastian will speak about the evil thing threat to the rest and their activities and training and planning for terrorist attacks against the west. briefly about me, i am finishing up a phd in war studies. this was one of my case studies in which i gather too much information for my own good. i have been working on a book

about the group. as we heard this morning pakistan, has yet to move significantly against let. the u.s. has had a lot more success against getting pakistan to move against other militant outfits. one of those reasons was pointed out by the general. i think it is fair. let is not attacking the eight pakistani state. there is a significant fear of further drawing it into the insurgency raging within the country. the other reason we left out was the fact that they still provide valuable resources for elements in the army to be used against india. although that is no longer the sole enemy of which the group is

fighting. i want to provide a broad overview. in terms of situating the group, it is important to look at it in two ways. first, it is a missionary and militant organization. it is committed to reforming pakistan and drawing people to the faith. >> it has prioritize the fight in kashmir that has been the most legitimate fight in terms of where it focuses its military energies. i want to go briefly back to its berth.

it was born in 1986. it was formed when -- the head of the organization and one of those currently on trial for the mumbai attacks merge their organizations. from the outset you get these two different concentrations coming together. that helps to explain why it not only has a potent military, but a robust social welfare infrastructure which it has used to spread its interpretation of the faith. it had very little impact during the jihad against the soviets in the 1980's. it begins fighting on multiple

fronts. its militants are found in bosnia and also in kashmir. i will lead others speak about this ideologies. i wanted to point out kashmir is considered to be the most legitimate front. it is closest to -- the ratio of security forces to population is among the highest in the world. we see this as one of the worst occupations in the world. thirdly, this is not just about a dispute. they have a wider struggle against hindu india that goes back to the time of the profit. they began receiving state support in the early 1990's. they are not the only group

supported by the army. but because they enjoy a small support structure in pakistan and let is alienated, they believed let will be more of the ins because it does not have the same natural allies as to the other groups that prescribe to the other faith. with the help of state support this grows into the most robust militant fighting in kashmir during the 1990's. although the first sign of this is the attack against the red fort by several people.

it had been building up -- since 1992. this is even before it began receiving support from the isi. it is also building transnational networks. it has strong ties to saudi arabia and the gulf. several of its leaders received education in saudi arabia. it continues to build on these times and the presence of the pakistani in the gulf. it is also building up its networks in europe, particularly the u.k. where there is a large pakistani population. towards the end of the decade it is beginning to train people from the u.s. as well.

up until 9/11 all was well and good. the army and the is are supporting let. let is primarily focused on liberating cashmere and attacking india. the 9/11 attacks clear to the pitch. followed soon after by the attack of another militant group on the indian parliament. a lot of groups are banned in pakistan. let is one of them. however, the above ground social welfare organization which has been used for missionary work and has a host of schools and hospitals is dissolved. it is dissolved at isi

direction. they are technically separate from let. this is done in order to help protect the assets. let is now banned, but has a legitimate organization under which it can operate in pakistan. but support for it does not cease. after 9/11 people will be familiar with the term the double game, which begins pakistan dividing its militant outfits into what many have called a good jihadists and the bad. let fares the best. it is seen as the most reliable and the smallest threat to the state.

and let shows itself to be deserving of that assessment because it does not share the same faith as the taliban. let is not as angered by the decision to support the u.s. invasion into afghanistan. let continues to prioritize india more so than any other group. it is fair to say one of the reasons the pakistani government side it was -- with the u.s. was it would be able to wall off the cashmere jihad from the wider war on terror. let is not launching attacks in pakistan. it continues to focus primarily

on the cashmere -- kasmir jihad. it continues to build up its social welfare infrastructure as well. it puts a lot more emphasis on its social welfare apparatus. it is taking a long-term approach into pakistani society. they are loud which it allowed to remain legal. in 2003 they reband a host of groups. one of the reasons they escape sanctions is that they agree to adhere to the agenda in return for being able to keep its

supply lines open. for the most part, it does adhere to the government's agenda, but at the doubled game has proved unsustainable. this proves to be unsustainable over time. because the global jihad is impossible to ignore. it becomes involved in providing facilitation, training to a host of different militant actors during the early part of this decade. it becomes involved in one or two terrorist attacks against the west. sebastian will speak more about that.

it is able to pull off this dual approach for the first several years. but several events within pakistan make the strategic environment more difficult. the first is that the pakistani state begins trying to restrict kashmir in 2004 after a peace process with india. the second is the attacks in 2005 that result in enormous international pressure to do even more to crack down on militants see within its borders on groups like let, with which several of the bombers are believed to have had ties. one way of showing results is to crack down on activities in kashmir.

by 2006 that conflict is a shell of what it once was. it is being seriously constricted. the insurgency in afghanistan is escalating. that is becoming impossible for them to ignore. it opens up a presence there. it is much smaller player at this point. its members are often fighting under the banner of other organizations to try to provide plausible deniability for the army. greater presence in afghanistan -- greater presence in the tribal areas. what ends up happening is we get a greater integration between them and the other out fence --

other outfits. a lot of these militant outfits were with the pakistani state. they accelerate this process in 2008. you get let increasingly integrated with a host of groups that are viewed as much more committed to jihad ban is the core let, which remains in close relationship with the army. the leadership is perceived to be more conservative. it would be wrong to say it completely fragments. what i would suggest is you are getting an increase in and out of factional station. the leadership has never been

illogically opposed to war against the u.s. or expanding beyond kashmir is forced to move faster along that line in order to keep pace. why is this important? mumbai comes out of this process. as we see from the interrogation of david who did the majority of the reconnaissance for the mumbai tax. what i just want to note is that what we have is an operation that starts as a few people attacking the tosh mahal hotel and escaping from the country. -- escaping -- attacking the taj mahal hotel. that includes targets are you

are guaranteed to be able to kill westerners and jews, . appealing to those motivated by al qaeda. it evolves into this because it appears the leadership felt the need to show major results. it is not splintering into 1 million pieces but it is trying to hold onto its people. there were no major consequences for the mumbai attacks. it has not been banned under the anti-terrorism act. it has been restricted but the degree to which these are in forced are questionable at best. let continues to operate. as well as expanding its activities in afghanistan.

and increasing its integration with the other actors. the result you get is a jihad that has expanded well beyond the parameters of kashmir even though india remains the primary enemy for the leadership. we have a threat that comes from an organization that is expanding and may feel pressure to keep pace with the evolving nexus in pakistan and threats from individuals within the organization who are able to move beyond leadership sanctions if they want to. i want to leave us with the threat of an organization as well as elements within it. i would like to turn it over to our next guest who will speak

more about the ideology and training that has made them such a capable organization and the people who have joined the group. just a little bit of background. in addition to being a journalist in pakistan who has worked there since 1986, and has written more than 250 analytical articles, the pakistan army, he is also the author of "shadow war." it is and excellent book which i highly encourage everyone to everyone here. he has been based in the u.s. for the last several years where he has worked with the counter-

terrorism center and new york university. in addition to all of that, he is an incredible scholar and was incredibly helpful to me during my research. he has forgotten more about let then i could ever hope to know. so much of my understanding comes from conversations with him. it is a great pleasure to invite him to speak about this today. [applause] >> thank you for the introduction. i never had such a good introduction before. i am going to focus on the

internal dynamics. i think a lot of people know about the international agenda and after mumbai, it is being talked about a lot in the western media. it is probably the best person -- sebastian is probably the best person to talk about the mumbai attacks in how they are spending its global jihad. i am focusing on the philosophy and the recruitment methodology. as was talked about [unintelligible]

the armed wing of [unintelligible] because of jihad, it has become more known then the globe. before 9/11 it was known as -- the center of guidance and cultural islam. basically it is a mission, and hyde is only part of the mission. jihad is not the biggest point on its agenda.

before the jihad there were not many people in pakistan and [unintelligible] the official patronage -- and the number in pakistan were only a few hundred. when the afghanistan jihad started and the first seven years there were two in the globe. they joined jihad sometime in 1985, but before him the head

had joined jihad. they were looking for a known person to head the group in afghanistan. since there were not many, -- he taught islamic studies. so they chose him. they chose him to head that small group. which came to be known as [unintelligible] in afghanistan, amazingly when you read the in house propaganda and publication you don't find that these people are fighting the soviets. they are fighting their fellow

muslims who are not [unintelligible] instead of fighting the soviets. when it was coming to end and the group took a more formal form, and their phone -- their philosophy was to convert pakistani base. that is why -- convert pakistani babies. jihad was part of their philosophy. a lot of people in the west talk about jihad as a struggle, but i don't agree with that concept.

jihad is -- has always been an armed struggle to establish an islamic state. jihad is a very easy word to use in western languages. it has become more known, but if you look at the propaganda they use the word jihad and [unintelligible] jihad means struggle. they are very clear about it. the jihad is for killing. in the beginning of the kashmir jihad, they discovered --

[unintelligible] there will be a time when muslims will wage a jihad against india. and the prophet of islam would come down and fight among themselves, but they did not know that. fightingthink that' against india to destroy india is the jihad. the profit of is mom talked about. -- the prophet of islam talked about. this is the jihad which was fought by the prophet of islam. jihadists in pakistan mostly use a different word instead of jihad.

the idea is the profit of islam is fighting among them and fighting the hindus, but they cannot see him. it is a very tough job for them. recruitment, in the beginning they had a tough time, [unintelligible] he and his group wanted to have one single group which should be headed by [unintelligible] if should wage jihad, they refused to wage jihad because

they could not do anything not permitted by the saudis. for a year or so they had a lot of discussion and finally they decided to set up their own group. unfortunately, [unintelligible] he banned the entry. they had to look for writs elsewhere. a few years ago i counted several hundred of their members and my conclusion was 96% of the recruits came from

elementary and middle school. they did not have any history of training. on the other hand, they had more than 70% come from other training. this is a big difference. the methods adopted to recruit [unintelligible] they were all sent out in this society to refused in their villages and their neighborhoods. they would not recruit somebody not known to somebody in the group. then before 9/11 they used to

have big gatherings. they would invite the families of those recruits. in 1979, convention that is the event i wrote the first article on let. the number of persons who attended the convention was close to 400,000. including the three day convention. they had showed 400,000 people had entered the convention. they used to get passes to everybody and keep a record of that. but then many of the people left but then many of the people left the