enterprise that is headed by someone who is appointed for a term, someone who has industry knowledge or experien, engineering capability and training, and cannot be removed or politically interfered with. we think for the long term, that is the only way to ensure that revenues do not ain become excessively influential in decisions relating to . . yes,a'am? >> i am with reuters. i was wondering, with all of the additional regulations i re calling for and things of that nature, is there any concern about further delays in the gulf? already, there are complaints that there have not been deepwater drilling permits and that drilling could be delayed until next year. is that something you took into

consideration when you were planning for it, and is it a concern now? >> senator gramm? >> yes, we did take into account. asommissioner by niki just mentioned, we recommended an increase of time that the department of ierior agency should have to reviewe applications, but it was not an indefinite amount of time. it was 30 to 60 days. we are sensitive to the fact that there are costs, both financial costs and time costs, involved in these decisions. but think of the enormous liability that the industry has just broughtpon itself as a result of the failure of -- failure to attend to the basic safeties, and thus, deepwater rise in. we think that the long-term viability of the industry in the gulf and its economic successes

in the gulf are very closely tied to a new standard of safety and environmental protection, which is what our report will, i think, establish a path toward bree -- toward achieving. >> we will take couple of more. yes, sir? >> john kingston from plats. how do you deal with the fact at if they hired a regulator, someonwho understands the industry, the compensation package will never be on the level that the private industry can pay for we're going to take you live to tucson, arizona, coverage of the john c. scott radio program on kjllm. guests today on the program include senate minority whip and arizona senator john kyle, also arizona state house

speaker kirk adams. this is live simulcast coverage here on c-span. >> what are your thoughts after so much has happened, i've seen you on national television so many times. people are trying to wrap their arms around this. they're having a difficult time doing that. >> each day i wake up and think, was this just a nightmare that i had or is this real think? didn't think nilling like this would happen in our town. ivepk been here for 31 years and this is not the face of the town that we know and love. and i'm just -- i'm deeply, deeply shocked that it occurred and of course our condolences go out to all of these victims and particularly congresswoman giffords' family. i know they're suffering terribly right now. >> obviously a new law designs to keep protesters away from the funerals of the victims from saturday's shooting will be on the books more than

likely the time the sun goes down here in arizona. key legislators from both parties have told the capitol media services that there's more than enough votes, in fact that vote's taking place at this moment as we speak to make it illegal to picket within 300 feet of any home, cemetery, funeral home or house of worship before, immediately before, during or after a ceremonial or burial. you were outspoken about this pastor and his outrageous comments and i know the whole town agreed with you. republican, democrat, independent, left, right, everybody came together to block this guy from his horrible speech and the protest that he plans against those who will be burying their loved ones. >> i called brian miller, the chairman of the fema county republican party on sunday, and asked him if he would be interested in helping us out and he graciously said yes right away. and embraced it completely. this is bipartisan. this may alleviate it and we may not have to have any kind

of counterprotest or anything to keep this from occurring. but i will warn you that most of these types of laws have been held unconstitutional and this issue is pending before the supreme court with this exact same pastor. as a matter of fact, while this was working its way through the court system, his daughter went to law school and she argued the case before the u.s. supreme court just about a month and a half ago, i think it was. so most of them have been found unconstitutional. they've patterned this one on the ohio law which i think tfls the sixth circuit upheld. so this one might pass muster at least at this stage of the game. and it might be in effect long enough to help us through this crisis. >> what is your take on the blowback from the sheriff of the county who was very critical of the political climate that existed here? and might even have suggested that that was partially to blame for this mad man and the shooting spree and slaughter that occurred on saturday?

there's many who have criticized him, says he has no right to suggest that in fact a political climate that has been certainly ripe with high profile and really vicious comments from one party to the other, but reaction to him mixed all across the country. what's your reaction? >> what i've been telling press from all over the world in the interviews i'm doing, there's a facebook page up now called clarence is my hero and people are joining that by the thousands and thousands. the fact is that he's absolutely correct in pointing out this kind of language that's gone on for the last couple of years has got to be at the source of this problem and the root of this killer's intent. we must remember that this killer already admitted in his own writings that this was an assassination, it's an assassination of a congresswoman, it is therefore political in nature and are we going to know soon? i hope very soon what kind of sources this person was looking

at on his computer. they have seized two computers from the home, i understand it. and once they start sorting through those computers we can kind of see where this killer was coming from. so i support clarence, i think he's one of the finest public officials, he had over 20 years at the tucson police department. he's been elected seven times for four-year terms as the county sheriff in this county. he's a brilliant man, a great law enforcement officer and i stand by everything he said and i think he had the courage to say what we were all thinking and maybe all didn't want to say at that moment in time. >> some of the block beaback,, too what the sheriff had to say, jack harmer said, he should have had a deputy at the event. he says that dupnick is partially to blame for the shooting because there was no law enforcement officers at the scene of her gathering, where she's gathered many times without law enforcement

officers. it would have been unusual to have one there. even al melvin says, obviously the left and he's a republican from tucson, the left is trying to make the shooting into a political issue. it's a mental disorder problem, says the senator. i think the sheriff of pima county ought to stop and think about that a little bit. >> we received a threat at our political headquarters, pima -- pima county headquarters today, about speaking out about this and we'll pay the price for it. so we have received many threats, bomb threats, over the last two years. this all started in 2009, right after barack obama's inauguration. there were people putting signs up at various events of giffords' that were hateful. we had people coming to rallies saying, we came unarmed this time. i mean, this kind of hatred and vitriol has been out there ever since early in 2009. we've seen it here in pima county, week of seen it across this state and nation. so this is a good time for us

to sit back, take a breath and evaluate the civility of political speech in the united states today. and i think that it calls for a serious examination of this, john. >> this is the john c. scott talk show in tucson, arizona, live on c-span 1. thank you so much for watching and thanks so much obviously for people listening. i think we'll take advantage of you being one of the best defense lawyers in the country. explain if you will the justice process under way, both at the federal level and the state level, against the accused assailant here. >> well, what's first going to happen to him is they'll have to bring formal charges now by way of a grand jury. in state cases they can take it to preliminary hearing but most of the times they take it to grand jury. grand jury in secret listens to the evidence as presented by prosecutor and probably some detectives. then the grand jury then formally indicts, you're now formally charged.

the next change is an arraignment where you enter a plea of not guilty for the suspect and then you set trial dates. this trial is going to be a year or more away from now and because he's going to be eligibler to the death penalty and because a prosecutor will most likely seek the death penalty, this will be a very long and very involved trial. it will last a long time. this case will -- isn't going to -- going away any time soon. as far as defenses, i think probably the only thing there is going to be an insanity defense. week of seen the things that the antigovernment kind of rants that this person has engaged in so there's probably, given the circular reasoning of some of the things i read that he's said, there's maybe a basis there to argue insanity. but insanity is a very difficult defense to mount. as know, my former partner is one of the foremost authorities on the insanity defense for decades and you must show under most laws that -- and most states and federal law, that you either didn't know the nature and quality of the act

you were doing, you thought it was a rabbit you were killing, or something like that, or that you didn't know the difference between right and wrong, that your mental instability was so far along that that was the case. and that is a very difficult hurdle. juries are very scrept cal of the insanity defense. >> -- skeptical of the insanity defense. >> this is the john c. talk show. there is absolutely no question that once again tucson is in this spotlight. you've been a long-time resident of tucson. i too have been here for many, many years. but the story i tried to relate to our listeners yesterday was, yes, this is a story of a mad man's act, we don't know the reasons for which he took the lives of these innocent and then attempted to assassinate the congresswoman, but there were heroes among us. people that were our neighbors, people that we didn't really know that could step up and attempt to save the lives and placed themselves in jeopardy as they were doing so. i think that says as much about

tucson as does this mad man that took so many lives. >> really does. some of these people acted without thinking. it was automatic. one of the people i saw, the younger man, said that when he saw the fire, the shooting, he gam began to move towards the gunfire. and the shooter. and i saw something today where one person hit him with a chair. and, you know, this was some remarkable heroism that took place there on that day. but i'm not surprised. i think in crises like that people's best nature usually prevails. >> the elderly lady that grabbed the magazine so he couldn't reload his automatic weapon. >> that was a very courageous move. >> so much of this discussion surrounds not only the political climate which has been raw in arizona, and we've covered it day after day for the last three or four years, it's become more raw as we headed into this political election of 2010. can the state be capable of

luring the discussion and listen -- lessening the kind of impact that these words have had from the right, the left, democrats and republican, all across this political spectrum? are we capable of that? or is this going to be a lull and we're right back? you heard jack harper trying to blame the sheriff, you heard al melvin saying the sheriff doesn't know what he's talking about. where are we going to go with this? what's the end result? >> i'm not terribly optimistic. because the vitriol we've seen coming from the right wing extremists in the republican party has continued on unabated for several years now. i'm not optimistic that that will stop. i just can't see people like rush limbaugh and people like sarah palin and glen beck ever toning down their rhetoric. the only way it will happen is if the viewers and listeners quit viewing and listening to these programs. that's the only way that this will end, is if the viewers and listeners say, i've had enough of this, this is poisonous, and i won't listen to it again. >> media has reacted, clear

channel who of course airs the are rush limbaugh show, has taken down their bill boards calling rush limbaugh a straight shooter. they're becoming sensitive to this as well. those bill boards are coming down all over town. >> i hope so. i'm not taking my shirts and dry cleaning to sparkle cleaners anymore if they don't get off that john justice show. we need to talk to advertisers and say, if you're going to put this bile on and pay for it we're not going to go to your businesses. >> the president coming tomorrow again puts the national and world spotlight on tucson, arizona. the memorial service at the center on the campus of the university of arizona. i think that's significant in itself because this is not just a local story, it's a story reaching worldwide. you've done international interviews with television from spain to london all over. and i have as well. there's no question the world's

watching what we do here. and i think the world's watching how arizona will react. after the tax on ethnic studies and after the senate president, now senate president russell pierce has said he will attack the 14th amendment. we're going to find out whether arizona can change or whether it cannot. >> well, you know, i've been here 31 dwreers and i love this state. it's a beautiful place. i had to drive to globe yesterday and on the way there and back i kept thinking, look at this unspectacular scenery. and all of the people that i've met andino here in southern arizona have been wonderful to me and my family. and i just hope that we can -- the better nature of us prevails and that these people who want to engage in all of this hatred and talk about weapons and guns, that they don't win this battle. >> the political climate obviously is being discussed. gun laws are being discussed, it's congress may take up these additional clips that allow so

many rounds to be fired from a gun. there's another interesting story, literally posted from washington suggesting that in the past year pima county, where of course representative gabrielle giffords and 19 others were shot, saturday, has seen more than 45% of its mental health services recipients forced off the public rolls. was there any possibility of help for this young man? who was identified at pima community be a college and in other particular experiences that he had as being a problem and a potential danger yet no one could do anything about it. is there anything in place that could have come into play? mental health services, law enforcement or anyone else that could have stopped this? >> you would think that in this state this governor would be particularly sensitive to this issue. because this governor has a son who is currently housed in the state mental hospital for a very, very serious crime and was found to be insane when he committed that very serious

crime. and so my hope all along has been that that would be the one area where we could count on this governor for support but apparently we have not been able to get any support from her at all and mental health services have been cut the same way education and other health care services have. >> we were talking in recent conversation immediately following the shooting about the ability of people to come together. they have come together on the pastor from topeka that was to disrupt the burial services for the dead. you talked as you mentioned with the pima county republican chair as well as the tea party representative, trent humphreys, and they all agree that they would share with you a common goal to try to stop this idiot from literally disrupting the privacy of burying the dead from the families and friends of those that we mourn. so there is at least a step forward here. we'll be talking with brian miller, the chair of the republican party, so they'der more than willing to join you

in this effort. >> absolutely. both of them seemed like genuine, concerned individuals that aren't so far out there, but i think what we all have to do and i think it will be easier here in stewson for us to get -- tucson for us to get together and do our best to pull back from the heightened rhetoric that we've seen over the last several years. but i'm not optimistic statewide or nationally. you have to realize that putting this fear and anger into play is what the republicans believe may have turned the election for them in the other parts of this state and in the rest of the nation. may have helped them capture the house of representatives. so i can't see them say, backing up saying, well, we're going to give up a winning strategy. i'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. i'm not terribly optimistic on a statewide or national level. >> callers may join us and talk to jeff rogers. this is of john c. scott talk show from tucson,arizona.

and jeff rogers is chair of the democratic party. we'll be talking with state representative steve farley who has been close to congresswoman giveredsa familiar -- giffords' family. we'll talk with others, an aide to congresswoman giffords, and obviously the former editor of the newspaper. pitcha county sheriff will be in studio with us live at 4:05 mountain time and u.s. senator john kyle also will speak with us. brian miller, the chair of the pima kt republican party will be with us. hopefully we'll have the governor. she's trying to adjust her schedule to do a live interview with this audience state representative, stay with us if you don't mind. and be with us for a moment. jeff rogers. we want to talk for state representative steve farley on this show. steve, thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. these are tough times, but i

really appreciate you getting the word out and spreading the story about who we are and what we do when we face tough circumstances here. >> legislature met this afternoon and a piece of legislation by kirk adams to protect the integrity and the privacy of the burial of the dead, very quickly, how did that legislation come about? how was it so quickly dealt with by both parties of the state legislature and now onto the governer? >> yesterday in our opening day we had an atmosphere of really unprecedented bipartisanship in which there was so much expressions of grief and so much expressions that we will not be treating each other the way week of been treating each other in the past. we must come together even when we will file the as hard as we can about boil, we will never attack each other using hateful or violent temples. it will not happen and we won't allow it to happen. this is the first example of how we did that. we have to make sure that the families of those people who are attending the memorials,

those families of those who died are protected so that they can grieve in peace and every member of this body agreed and it sailed right out of here and it's on the governor's desk. she might have even signed it already. >> by the way, what people might not know is you've been close to the giffords family, her astronaut husband and of course the whole family itself have counted on you to be with them through this terrible tragedy as congresswoman giffords fights for her life. i don't know how recently you've been in contact with the family, her happens you could update -- perhaps you could update us on how she is doing and how those who are being mourned and those that have been wounded from the governor 's -- i mean, from the congresswoman's staff, a little bit about the personal side of this story and your relationship with the family, please. >> it's been a very tough time for a whole lot of people. and i think that that counts everybody in the tucson area, the entire southern arizona, we

really consider ourselves to be part of gabby's family. and the other folks who have died and who are suffering right now, the members of her staff, the member ps of the public who were killed and wounded, we are all doing everything we can to make sure that they are getting the care they need and the hopes and the prayers they need. more specifically, i've been in the hospital visiting ron barber who is her chief of staff and he is in great shape and he's -- even though he's talking in a very soft voice as he recovers, he still has his blackberry on all the time, he's always asking about everybody else. he's trying to tell people what he'd like to get done. pam simon, another incredible person, gabby surrounds herself by these amazing charismatic type a, kind, wonderful people. and they are all her family, too. pam simon is going to be released very soon because she has done so well and i have to

say that there has been some sort of miracle here in how well people are doing. obviously it's a terrible loss that we've lost gabe zimmerman who was also a close friend and such a kind individual and so dedicated and so hardworking and connected to people as well as gabby connects to people. he was also rushing to help when he was felled by hailed bullets and unfortunately he passed from us while dan hernandez, who was her intern that everybody has heard about and was my campaign manager, his family is my family, basically, he rushed in and did help and he's the one who is hailed around the world as a hero right now but gabe zimmerman was going to go there, too, and unfortunately he did not make it. it's incredible how the people who did make it, though, have come through so well, including gabby who is now wiggling toes, she can breathe on her own,

they have a little assistance right now because it helps recovery. both sides of the body are engaged. it's really, really a hopeful thing and i think when gabby comes out of this she's going to lead us to a whole new era in politics in which we don't have to attack each other or demonize one another in order to disagree. >> you've said you'll tone down your rhetoric. >> i absolutely will and i made that promise to kirk adams, the speaker of the house, made that promise to the governor, made that promise to majority leader tobin. i said if i have ever done anything to hurt you in the past, please for give me. i beg your forgiveness. and if i ever do it again you call me on it and i will make amends immediately and i intend never to do that again. and i hope that every member can do it. but i know that i can only control my behavior and i will do that because i believe that our democracy deserves nothing less. and this is the threshold we have crossed last saturday. where we can come together once

again as a state and lead the way to the rest of the nation to come together as one nation so that we will solve our problems and we'll do it together and we won't just be yelling at each other about it. >> we're talking with state representative steve farley, democrat from tucson, from his phoenix office. i believe you're in phoenix. >> i am. i'm about to hit the road as soon as this interview is over and get back to tucson. >> and we're in studio with jeff rogers, the chair of the fema party democratic party. we'll be talking seen -- pima party democratic party. mark kimble will be with us live, an aide to congresswoman giffords, suffered greatly over the -- over losing, obviously one of the great people of southern arizona, gabe zimmerman, who was the aid to -- aide to congresswoman giffords and ron barber, one of the aides who were shot and the innocent who were there, to attends the rally for congresswoman giffords on saturday. again, pima county sheriff will also be in studio with us live. his remarks have stirred political debate. what do you hear from the

capitol? you have the state senator from southern arizona saying that he takes exception with the statement, if i, sheriff dubnick, that we have become a mecca of prejudice and bigotry. also we have a situation where there's no question that jack harper, the republican from sunrise, said the sheriff was partially to blame for this. should have been a deputy at the event. and he bears some of the responsibility for the shooting there. some of the -- of those remarks from the capitol. what's been the reaction to those in phoenix? >> well, i don't react to the blame game. i think that we all have blame for what our dialogue politically has become and we have to change our behavior, each of us individually. and whether or not, i mean, i think ultimately we know there has been a climate that has not been good in many situations. we know that gabby has come under personal threats. many times in the past.

her office windows have been shot out, we had targets painted on her district by certain national figures. there's been a lot of stuff happening that leads to a climate that seems to tell someone who is unhinged anyway that this sort of stuff is tolerated. and i'm not saying this is a political act, in no way do i think it's a political act, because this guy isn't capable of acting politically. this guy was crazy. there's no way around it. but the fact is that people like him, these loaners who are deranged, are looking for some way to belong to something that's larger than themselves and unfortunately they'll jump onto these people giving as it its permission for violent acts. by calling for angry retributioner to things they disagree with and we cannot do that. we cannot do that. and -- but it's important to emphasize because some folks on the right have been saying that somehow we are saying that he

did it because of the political climate, because of the tea party, i don't agree with that at all. i think he didn't do it because they did it, because it was crazy. this is an opportunity for us to highlight the problem that we already know exists and that gabby herself has talked about numerous times. tone down the rhetoric. >> steve, do you think there's any chance that this might help us derail some of the more liberal gun legislation that's being proposed? >> i certainly hope so. >> there was a big push by the n.r.a., they told us on our talk show that their highest priority would be to put guns on campuses across the state of arizona. >> and i know jack harper is going to have that bill and he's going to be pushing that one. i don't think he'll back down about it. but i will certainly make the argument that that is not a good idea. we have law enforcement on our side and i think we'll have a lot of our people on our side. i think the public will be more involved. i'm very concerned that this guy passed a background check to buy a semi-automatic weapon. we need to do something about that. there's no question.

but the more important thing is that these things -- this thing happened, regardless of why it happened, we'd like it to not happen again, but let's use this as something, a crisis that causes us to actually change our behavior in ways that is significant into the future. we don't respond necessarily very well to impending crises here in this country. but we respond very well to actual crises once they have happened and this is what we have. if we do not act now to transform our civil dialogue, then we will have wasted this opportunity and it's hard to talk about a tragedy as an opportunity, but i think that's the way we rise above this. >> all right. all our phone lines, republican city councilman from tucson, in studes yo with us is jeff rogers. state representative steve farley. this is kjll. thanks for watching all across the country and the world and thanks for listening here in to

youston. here's steve -- tucson. here's steve. >> thank you. first of all i want to thank you all for calling for a toning down of the rhetoric. i don't care about pointing fingers but we certain lino that we just came through a very nasty campaign and i'm not blaming one thing or another, but if somebody's on the edge and they're within a hair's breadth of going over the edge, then listening to a campaign like that might happen to be the catalytic event that sends them over. thank you for calling for a toning down of the rhetoric. i absolutely agree with you on that. do i have a question for each of you, though. i don't want them to sound like [inaudible] questions but they are sper received. steve, you described the legislation that just went through, to deal with this nut case, this fred phelps guy. you can describe the language

in it? could it have a first amendment vulnerability? then for jeff, a similar question, you talked about the insanity defense and you said you had -- you have to demonstrate that the guy knew right from wrong. i don't mean this to sound flip and but what if the guy says, i know right from wrong and i think this was the right thing to do? >> go ahead, first of all, steve farley. >> first, that's a great question and thank you for calling in, steve. i think you're a great example of how we -- how you personally are not -- do not engage in that type of rhetoric. i think that's great. this bill is not targeting the west borrow guys, it's not targeting that church that's going to do that crazy stuff. this is specifically something that's already in place for 40 states. it's something where, yeah, this tragedy has spurred us to realize we needed this thing, because we looked around and said, we don't have anything like this and 40 other states do, but we're not targeting them. this is for any other funeral, any other memorial service that

will be happening at any point in the future. we realized there's a little nudge for us to realize a big nudge for us to realize that we need to do this now. in terms of constitutional issues, no, we have a sixth circuit court from an ohio law and this is directly the wording from the ohio law, that does uphold this and finds it does not violate the first amendment, because it has reasonable time, place and space requirements. so the restrictions are reasonable. and they are specifically about the time and the space, the distance and the place where it is. it will, i believe, pass the legislative muster and i don't believe they'll be able to get an injunction. >> let me point out that if they are able to get an injunction to stop it, which they have done in other places, then we will stand shoulder to shoulder along the route, all of us, and i've already talked with many community groups from the right, from the left, from the middle, from the

nonpartisan, and we will find an unprecedented turnout of people, shoulder to shoulder along the route, to protect the mourning families and all of us who are attending that funeral from anyone trying to disrupt it because we will stand shoulder to shoulder on that and our unanimous vote on the legislature made sure that would happen. >> a city councilman on the phone lines as is steve farley, representative from district eight and steve, had another question about this insanity defense. >> many of these laws have been struck down across the nation and it is pending before the u.s. supreme court a virtually identical law from a different state. so it's possible this could be a problem. but as steve noted, we have a backup plan. and that backup plan is to show what this community is about and i think across the state people will, as steve said, stand shoulder to shoulder. as for the insanity defense, most lawyers would recommend that a person in this

dividend's case not testify at all. they have an absolute right to testify and a judge will quiz them over whether or not they're giving that right up knowingly or whether or not they wish to testify. if he did what you described in the scenario, steve, the jury would probably say, well, he's definitely not insane. we're just going to convict him. so that would probably not be in his best interests. as i indicated earlier on, perhaps you weren't on yet, the insanity defense is very difficult to prove before a jury. juries are very kept cal -- scrept cal of it. it's a difficult road to hoe. >> i heard you say that. i guess what i was suggesting is, what if he said something that on its face was so be a sword that nobody but a crazy person would say it? >> it's very difficult to put that guy on the stand because they're going to say, well, maybe he's nuts knuts, maybe he's crazy, but he's not insane. the definition of insane is so strong, only those two pillars of it, you have to prove one or

the other, and if you don't prove one or the other beyond a reasonable doubt, or raise it to the significant level, then a jury's just not going to believe it. >> steve, thanks so much for your call and your questions. we appreciate them very much. >> steve, thanks for standing shoulder to shoulder with us at those candlelight vigils for gabby giffords. >> no doubt and i'll be out there for the young girl on thursday also. >> the democratic chair of pima county on the front lines, state representative steve farley. steve farley and the speaker of the house on the other line. i thank you for contributing to our show today on c-span and kjll. we look forward to another conversation real soon. >> thank you so much and thank you for telling this story. >> thank you. let's go to the speaker of the house of representatives, the honorable kirk adams. mr. speaker, thank you so much for being with us. you're on c-span 1 and on our radio show here in southern

arizona. thanks, we appreciate it. >> you bet. >> all right, this piece of legislation, you authored it. it went through within moments, almost hours, here and i believe the govern already sign it. we have the chair of the democratic party, a lawyer here, jeff rogers. he was commenting on perhaps some of the difficulties with the law. if you would explain the law to the national audience ands to -- and to us and how it will apply to the funerals now. >> yes, thank you. first off, let me say again to tucson that our hearts are in pain with the city of tucson as we go through this process of mourning for the victims of this horrible massacre. and that is why we felt this legislation was so important. so that the family members whose lives have been turned upside down can at least have peace, some peace, during the periods of time in which they are burying their loved ones. and having those funerals.

so what this legislation does it we base it on legislation that's been done in 40 other states and particularly the legislation out of ohio which was upheld to the sixth district court and what it simply says is that these protesters have the right per the united states constitution and the first amendment to express their thoughts and their opinions as vial as and disgusting as they may be, but they have that right. but we also have the right to regulate the time, manner and place and that is what we intend to do with the passage of this legislation. so what it will say is that one hour before the funeral, during the funeral and one hour after the funeral the protesters must remain 300 feet from the funeral. >> mr. speaker, we just had state representative steve farley who had been extremely laudtory on your comments as

you listened to the governor yesterday, he thought your remarks were so appropriate. you talked about the political climate and he had pledged to you no more raising of the rhetoric of him as a democratic minority and i'm asking you, mr. speaker, will in fact there be less of this volume and perhaps a diminished amount of this volume of political speech that we've heard for the last couple of years in arizona over all kinds of issues from 1070 and now to this tragedy and perhaps a comment on the political climate, if you will, please? >> i certainly hope so and i'm optimistic that we will see changes. you know, we will never really understand nor can we understand what would cause one human being to cause so much carnage like this. it's impossible for us to comprehend. but i don't think it's as important to discuss why he did it as to discuss what do we do now? and that was really the focus of my speech yesterday when i accepted the re-election to the

speakership. we need to return to to a point where we can continue to have vigorous debate, one with another, because after all that is our political system. we have varying opinions and varying beliefs about what government should do and what government shouldn't do. but when we have those debates we need to always remember that it is a conflict of ideas and not a conflict of people. that in the end we all really want the same thing. which is to improve arizona and to improve our country and so long as you remember that, that it's not about the individuals, it's not about the people, it's about the ideas, i think we can have a respectful and honest debate and respect the opinions of people and value others seen when we disagree with them. and in a tragedy like this, john, just as we have tragedies in our own personal lives, i think it's a moment of

self-reflection for all of us. a chance for us to examine how we are living our lives and how we are conducting ourselves. and if there's anything to learn from a sudden loss of a loved one it is this. sometimes you never get a second chance. to speak to them again, to tell them that you love them, to seek their forgiveness. whatever it may be. and i think that's true as well with an elected officials and those of us who are trying to serve the public in such a public way as running for office. we develop friendships and we develop relationships and there are times where we disagree with each other very strongly. but even in those moments we must always keep it to the ideas and not to the personalities. >> we're talking with the speaker of the state house of representative, kirk adams, we're on c-span 1 and this is the john c. scott talk show from kjll.

my comments yesterday and our commentary was the fact, yes, there was a mad man among us, but there were heroes as well that we did not recognize until that tragic day of saturday. you honored one of them on the floor of the house yesterday. with the gathering of the senators and representatives of the state, daniel hernandez, who was the aid, -- aide, of course, to gabrielle giffords, whose actions may have saved her life as he cradled her in his arms and placed a bandage on her wounds that perhaps stopped the bleeding and has diminished the amount of damage done to her brain from the bullet. but that was a remarkable time to remember arizona not just as a place and a home of a mad man, but a place of many heroes, that turned out on that saturday morning to risk their lives for others. >> yeah. you know, this is a great state, it's a beautiful state, but it's filled with great people like daniel hernandez. and it was an honor for us to

be able to honor him and the courage that he showed in a moment ff incredible fear, i can only imagine. and to do what he did and the other heroes that were there that prevented additional deaths and carnage, and you're right, john, we need to remember not only in this time of pain, if the individuals and the families that have been impacted, but also the heroes and the acts that they took and daniel ranks right up there and we were just honored that he was with us yesterday, it was a very emotional time and he received several standing ovations during our opening day ceremonies and was mobbed afterwards with well wishers and people who wanted to shake his hand and thank him for doing what he did for gabby. >> mr. speaker, thanks for communicating with this audience and the c-span audience across the globe and around the country. i think it's very important for

people like yourself as leaders of this state to speak openly about this horrible tragedy and where we go from here. mr. speaker, thank you. i appreciate you being on our show today very much. >> thank you. >> you bet. the speaker of the house, the hon rational kirk adams. i want to thank jeff rogers for being with us and we'll be following people preventing people from disrupting these burial services. we're going to go to mark kimble, communications director for gabrielle giffords. he's scheduled to be in studio with us. also the pima county sheriff. also on our hotline will be u.s. senator john kyle. he'll be talking to us. brian miller, the chair of the republican party in pima county in studio with us. as we will have perhaps we've worked diligently to find the governor and see that she'll be available to our audience. this is the john c. scott talk show from kjll tucson.

c-span live across the country. for those that have just joined us, we want to update the situation with gabrielle giffords. some incredibly great news out of the university medical center. after surviving the gunshot wound to the head at this political event, representative giffords remains in critical condition but it was a significant time for her and her recovery as the brain tends to swell most of the third day after a traumatic injury. it was a very good sign that she has made it past the third, now the fourth day. dr. black, chairman of the department of neurosurgery in los angeles was involved in treating giffords. she has now breathing tubes to protect her lungs and of course dr. michael lamone, chief of neurologist and neurosurgery at the university of medical center had a news conversation and has said that -- coferingse

and has said that ms. giffords has been responsive and they're very, very pleased. sara, representative of congresswoman giffords' office and of course mark kimble, former citizen editor. and now an aide to congresswoman giffords. both of you, you'll have to move over to the microphone, we're sharing it here. but sara, if you will, this has been such a traumatic time for the staff, the people that were so close and are close to gabby, i can't even imagine what you've gone through. but perhaps you could tell this audience on see spands and here in southern -- on c-span and here in southern arizona where you are now as we try to put this together and find it almost impossible. go ahead, sara. >> sure. right now we're just trying to cope with this week and take it day bidet and also try to still serve our constituency who's also been hurt so hard by this. we lost an amazing staff member, gabe zimmerman. he was an integral part of our

staff, but also an amazing human being and helped serve so many people and we've just been -- we opened yesterday and we just keep taking the constituency, they want to leave their sympathy and we are happy to take that. it's a great deal of support to know that the community is there for us and have been leaving flowers and signs as well on our corner and, i mean, we're distraught and it's kind of an emotional roller coaster right now but we're just trying to function and stay positive with the positive news we hear about the congresswoman and our other staff members. >> mark kimble, obviously as long-time journalist, editor of the daily newspaper for so many years, you have written these stories of carnage and bloodshed and of course somewhat as we all have been who cover these stories, detached from it. this came home to you. this was people you know, people you worked with. people you loved. this was your family.

i can't even imagine what you've gone through. >> well, to say it was the worst day of my life is just a real understatement. sara and i were up there on saturday morning looking to help people as was gabby and this was the furthest thing from our minds. many of these events have been held in the past and they had all gone well. people were excited to see gabby and she was out there doing what she really loved which was meeting people that she represented. and there were a lot of people out there excited to see her and this was just such an unspeakable tragedy. >> perhaps it is not unusual for congressional staff to become attached to their particular boss, to their political figure. but in your office there's always been a sense of family about this. gabby has chosen people she

feels so close to and those that would be close to her. they are her familiar. you are her family. i think that was illustrated when daniel hernandez who just joined this family not too long a-- ago cradled her in his arms, pressing against her wound and perhaps his act saved her life. ron barber who was shot, his words were not, you know, help me, his words were, take care of gabby, take care of gabby. i think that's reflective of the staff as i've known it. each person that we've talked with, both of you here today on c-span and on kjll, always speak in terms of just -- of love. just not a job, she was just not a boss. >> i'll let sara talk about that, too. but i think all of us considered a very big honor to work for gabby. we are proud to work for her, we do love her and i know she loves all of us.

we're all very close to each other and this was something that just really tore apart a very, very close knit group of individuals. >> by the way, sara, if you'll comment, too, the office is open for constituent services, for comments. it's open to serve the constituents of congressional district eight. you didn't shut it down and put a wreath over the doer, you simply said, this is what gabby would want us to do. i've heard that expressed numerous times. keep the office open, keep doing what we've been doing. how you do that in the midst of this tragedy is far beyond my comprehension but the work goes on, does it not? >> it does. time doesn't stop for this. and we have constituents who still have problems, you know, who might be having severe health problems and need veteran services, who need social security benefits in order to take care of themselves. i work specifically with immigration issues. people are waiting for loved ones to come from overseas and they have interviews and they

have appointments and that work still has to go on. we've gotten tremendous support from our congressional offices who have offered to help us with the constituent work that's going on. but as mark said, we are a tight knit group. we're a -- we were a family before this and we're still family. the people there are so caring and we care so much about each other and it's definitely -- gabby would serve her constituency and our chief of staff said, you know, don't feel you need to come into the office, if you need to be at home, be at home. but i knee on sunday night, i knee that -- i knew that everybody would be there because that's just how we are. >> mark kimble, quickly, if you will, you might comment, we are in the national, international spotlight. obviously we're on c-span, across the country, across the globe and across southern arizona. we did falk with jeff rogers, the chair of the democratic party, and state representative steve farley who is still in phoenix as the legislature has moved to try to protect the integrity and privacy of the families who will bury their dead, the six that died, but

obviously the president of the united states will arrive here for the memorial service on the campus of the university of arizona. that speaks so highly, i think, of not only recognition that gabrielle giffords has obviously met across the country, across southern arizona, but across this great nation as the president comes to pay her respects as well as to honor the dead and those wounded in this horrible tragedy. >> it does mean an awful lot having the president come and i think that reflects very highly on gabby. i also think it reflects very highly on gabe zimmerman, our very much loved staff member who died in this tragic event. the flags at the capitol are flying at half-staff because of gabe this week. it also i think reflects on john roll, a federal judge who

had enormous respect in tucson and all across the nation. who just stopped by on saturday to say hi to his friend gabby and was caught in all of this. >> we're talking with mark kimble, aide to congresswoman gabrielle giffords who is fighting for her life at university medical center after an assassins attempt. sara humble is -- hummle is with us as well. there is no question, mark kimble, that this community has had an outpouring of grief. it's time to deal with it itself. no one could ever have imagined this could happen here. to someone we know, someone we loved. had this happened someplace else we would have been obviously satnch -- saddened by it but it just comes home to a community that literally is wound around the university of arizona, we all are wildcat fans, we all do basically the same things and choose this town because of its sunshine and its friendsliness. but i've never seen such an

outpouring. i've never seen an event that has brought so many people together as this terrible tragedy has. right, left, republican, democrat, independent, i don't care who you are, all are saddened by this. >> i would agree with that. on saturday sara and i heard a large number of people including law enforcement officers express shock over this and say, this is not what we do in tucson. this is not tucson. and that is really true. and the outpouring of well wishes and the memorials that have sprung up, the shrines in front of our office, in front of the university medical center, are unbelievable and are very, very touching. and i think that represents the real tucson that we know. >> well, mark kimble, i know this is a very difficult time. i appreciate you coming to our studios, not only for c-span but for ourselves, just to obviously speak for the office staff and for gabrielle

giffords. i think people should realize that this congresswoman is still a congresswoman, will be as long as she wants to be. and i think everybody prays for her recovery. they want to see her on the floor of the house again. they want to see her constituent events. that's what people are praying for. the recovery of this remarkable woman. and perhaps that will happen. i think all of us are praying for that to happen. >> well, john, i think those working for her know it will happen. gabby is the strongest person i think any of us know. and she will get through this. she's a fighter and she'll be back. >> mark kimble, thanks for taking the time to come here. i know it's been a deluge of requests for you, but to come here and to express your thoughts are very important to us and to this audience at c-span as well. thank you very much. we want to thank mark kimble and sara hummle from the giffords' office as this courageous lady fights for her

life. we'll take a break. what we want you to hear now is a talk show host at this radio station who arrived on the scene just moments after the shots were fired. he found the dead and those wounded in front of him and these are his words that so poignantly described the carnage that was there. we'll go to the top of the hour. the next, the sheriff of pima county will be with us live in studio. this is the john c. scott talk show. this is c-span 1. here's mike, one of those arriving on the scene moments after the shots were fired. >> i'm at the supermarket at the southeast corner -- corner. medivac helicopters have just arrived. all kinds of fire and rescue personnel. congresswoman gabrielle giffords was holding a meet and greet here in the parking lot of the safeway supermarket and

a man opened fire with apparently small caliber handgun. congresswoman giffords was shot , she has just been medivaced out, probably a half a dozen or more other people also shot, at least three dead. it's absolute pandemonium here. ivepk been giving c.p.r. for the last 20 minutes to two different people. that's why i'm sure there are at least three dead because those that i was helping i think will end up being declared dead. i didn't stop doing c.p.r. until i was relieved by a paramedic. i don't think there was any point in doing c.p.r. to the people i was doing c.p.r. to.

>> welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. this is the john c. scott talk show. c-span 1, kjll, the jolt, want to thank jeff rogers, the chair of the democratic party, for spending time with us to begin our show. state representative steve farley was also on our live line. calling in, steve, the republican city councilman. and the speaker of the state house of representatives, the hon rational kirk adams, was with us with his thoughts and piece of legislation to protect the privacy of the families who will bury their dead this week. mark kimble, communications director for the gabrielle giffords congressional office, sara hummle who provides services for the constituents in congressional district number eight. with us, the sheriff of pima county, a long-time friend and a long-time -- we've admired him for his work in law enforcement and speaking his

mind. thank you for being with us. we truly appreciate you being with us. >> thanks for the opportunity. >> please explain to this audience across the nation, across the world, as well as in southern arizona some of the law enforcement responsibilities and how they are divided between the federal government and state authorities. we talked yesterday with the pima county attorney who may press charges leading to a local investigation of the shooting. so perhaps the division of responsibilities of law enforcement, if you will, sheriff. >> well, we had two very serious crimes of murder. one is federal and one is state. the judge and the shooting of gabby are federal crimes. and the other individuals who were shot, the other, well, the staffer also, so what we have is the f.b.i. being responsible for the investigation of the federal crimes and we have our department, the sheriff's department, responsible for

investigating the state crimes. but i can tell you that within an hour, a very chaotic scene, there are about five, six, no seven or eight law enforcement agencies, four from the federal government, like a.t.f., d.e.a., f.b.i., are present, there are five municipal jurisdictions, including the city of to youston and our department -- tucson and our department and so forth and the fire, several fire agencies, including the city of tucson, and a lot of medical and emergency support people. within an hour a very chaotic scene was brought under control , a command post was set up and an incident commander was in charge and it was as if one agency was doing the entire

investigation. the people in this community, the enforcement agencies have practiced and practiced and worked together for years and this one came together as though it was just one agency doing the entire thing. >> you've seen acts of heroism before in situations similar. i don't know whether you've seen so many people risk their lives, the elderly lady who took the gun magazine, daniel hernandez who cradled the congresswoman in his arms and held a bandage to her head as much as he could, a makeshift to stop the bleeding, the elderly gentleman throwing himself in front of his life. his wife is taken, his wife's life is saved, the mother who pushed herself in front of her own child. .

they saved numerous lives, because he had just finished firing 31 shots from an extended magazine that he had and he was trying to incertificate another extended magazine that he had, plus he had two other magazines. he had spent 31 and probably had 61 other rounds and probably would have used those had he not been subdued. >> your comments following this terrible tragedy. you talked about the rhetoric

and political climate. never backed off of that, even though you have been criticized for it. you talk about mecca and bigotry and others have asked you to withdraw your remarks and you have not. >> i was expressing my anger and i still feel that way. i'm still angry. i learned about this when i was leaving palm springs for a law enforcement event when i was present at, when i learned about this. it was like someone kicked me in the stomach. i was in shock and disbelief. and more i learned that the people i admire, respect and love the most were victims, then , i got quiet and i started getting angry and closer i got to tucson, arizona, the angrier i got. i arrived and i said what i

felt. >> you are not withdrawing your words. you believe that the political climate may have contributed to this slaughter. >> no doubt in my mind. no doubt in my mind. many people feel precisely the way i do and i know there are thousands of police officers that feel that way. but everybody is afraid of, for example, the national rifle association, they are afraid of legislators and afraid of what the government may do to them. and you were in the legislature yourself. and you know the power they have. people are reluctant to say anything controversial because of the backlash they are going to suffer but i have been a cop for 52 years and i'm 75 years old and maybe i can express myself. >> there is some blowback and some say you bear responsibility

for the tragedy and should have had a deputy at that event. >> it's an interesting point but a point that is being discussed intensively, not only here but in congress, because when the people like gabriel are in congress, in washington, they have tremendous security and they go back into their communities and they have four, five, six, seven events in one day and we don't even know they are having these events and no loument presence unless we have some intelligence there is going to be a problem. >> she never asked you for security and never notified you where she was to be or never checked with your office as to public events. >> if you are feeling guilty, you reach for strauss. >> a state senator says he takes exception to this. the sheriff of pima county ought

to think of this. but people are praising you for having the guts to say this. >> no doubt about it. for years, some talk radio hosts, which certain people listen to, 24 hours a day, seven days a week and some have their motive to inflame the citizenry. they make money doing that and there is one party that benefits from it. >> there were billboards that were taken down that says straight shooter. >> he has no responsibility, right? >> you have obviously the situation where i think everybody is evaluating what theyr what they say and what they do. people think it is the lull before another storm. there isn't any question about it. there are people out there that are unstable and can't reason with them and can't control

them. their behavior is irrational. and they are trying to rationalize what is irrational. than you can't do that. all of us know as a matter of common sense, when you inflame people, particularly troubled permits that they may do wellly bad things as we saw in this case. call our phone number and we are on c-span and on kjll and our caller, a question or comment. >> i wanted to sheriff to know i support his statement. first of all, happy birthday and i support his statement and i really feel strongly about the gun law. i support guns at the university. i think it's a very stupid idea

and we need to do something about it. >> thank you. our next caller. go ahead, rick. >> good afternoon. i think sometimes we take yourselves so seriously we lose what is the more important part here, we have victims that have been devastated because of this crazy behavior. i would wish we would focus on these people transition on to these people becoming survivors and doing things right instead of beating ourselves up side the head. >> sheriff dupnik, very quickly, there is no question. there are acts in the legislature today, and the governor will sign the bill to protect the privacy of those that wilburry their dead in tucson all six. your reaction to that piece of legislation and the quick action

to sign this piece of legislation. this nut case was coming to disrupt the services. >> takes a shame to get the republicans, democrats and the governor on the same page. and i'm grateful. if these people show up and they violate this law, they are going to spend some time in our jail. >> you're calling for consideration of the political rhetoric that has been so much a part of our discourse, since 1070, no one can suggest that that did not ratchet up the political feelings in tucson, arizona, as well as the attack on ethnic studies and pending attack on the 14th amendment. there is no doubt in your mind that this political climate is an unhealthy one and i ask you the same question, you believe it could have contributed to this madman and they acts against the innocents.

>> i don't think it's not just me but all the experts agree with those things. it's not just dupnik. >> very quickly and i appreciate the time, i know you are worn from these interviews from all across the country, but in the past year in pima county and democratic -- democratic representative gareds' district, we have -- gabrielle giffords' district. this is something you and i talked about many, many years. it is thing that create these kind of environments. if you identify who may be a danger and you cannot do anything about it until they harm other people, these are quirks in this society and the structure by which we live. in the legal system we have,

common sense gets lost. and that's what happened here. and going back to your other point about the tenor of our society, you look at the gabrielle's campaign, which i was involved in, you have sarah palin in the crosshairs and reload publicly supporting her opponent. her opponent is going on tv that start with, i know you people are mad as hell at washington and so am i. that was her opponent, endorsed. and he had one event that i know of where people were allowed -- he showed them how to shoot a semi-automatic rifle after the event. >> the association of guns in politics has led to this horrible tragedy. can't separate it from this event or this tragedy of six dead, 14 wounded and the congresswoman fighting for her

life. we now have the legislature so willing to come together as one and try to probing the privacy of those that we're going to bury. the majority committed to opening up guns on the campuses of the arizona universities. your response to that, putting guns in the hands of students and faculty. >> the legislature ought to stay out of it. we ought to let our college presidents decide. and the idea is insane. you put a bunch of guns in students' pockets and teachers' pockets and when you get an unstable personality that becomes angry, all they have to do is become angry and start shooting. >> you might these gun magazines. he had 31. previous to just a few years ago, you couldn't have a clip -- you could acquire them, but the

idea he could kill and wound so many in a short period of time because of the length of that magazine. your comments on some gun control in america. >> the politicians today both right and left are fearful of their jobs because of the influence of the national rifle association. >> you're not fearful. you have won seven elections and you are one of the most popular figures in southern arizona and haven't been seriously challenged for sheriff. do you speak going to the ballot and letting the people decide. >> absolutely. >> just take some time, please, and i want this audience nationwide across the world and here in southern arizona to know your relationship with gabrielle giffords. it was one not just friendship, not just political alliance but one of real deep friendship, was it not? >> not only friendship, but deep admiration and respect.

this is one of the finest creatures that god has ever created, really. that's not -- i say this not to exaggerate a point. and john roll, the federal judge who was assassinated have been personal friends. he is the brother-in-law of one of our homicide lieutenants and he is the guy that went to mass every day and he was a fairest brightest judge that i know of. and it's just horrible. >> sheriff, we are going to go through this together, but you were so close to her and close to this whole situation because of the continued circumstances such as this one where we ask you what do you think and what's going to happen, but this has been a very difficult time for you, hasn't it? , >> very difficult time. national discourse on this issue of anger and hate and prejudice in our society.

it's time as we as a nation decide we are going to stop this. i think we need people, good leaders at the national level to take this issue up and make recommendations on how we can bring some of this to a halt. we realize there is free speech we have to deal with, but i think free speech doesn't go without responsibility and consequences. >> sheriff, thanks for being with us. been a long four days. sheriff dupnik will have some comments for you.

>> thank you for listening. i want to thank our guest on the john c. scott show. jeff rogers, chairman of the

pima county. speaker of the house of representatives. adams spoke to the house and two staff members that continue to keep the doors open and of course the sheriff, sheriff dupnik and u.s. senator john kyl. your comments, perhaps you could tell us of how you learned of how this horrible tragedy in your state and your reaction now. >> i was traveling back from washington, d.c. to phoenix and just as we landed, i was handed a note and immediately opened my blackberry as soon as i could and it was flooded with news.

it was unfortunately the first news, so there were misreports. when i got to the end of all the messages, the news had been corrected, although we didn't have any reports as to how several she had been injured. but i was aware that judge roll had been killed and others and i made my way to the office and staff and we began to put it all together and the events then unfolded as everyone is aware. >> senator as i might recall, i might be incorrect, but you went to iraq with her, facilitated her trip to the middle east and perhaps you could tell us about that. >> a little longer that. right after she was elected, i invited representative giffords to go to iraq with me and i think there were two other senators, maybe one other representative, i forget who was

on the trip, but we went to iraq and couple of other places in the middle east and that was her first trip, of course. and i invited both representative mitchell and representative giffords, they were newly elected and had an interesting trip and we had the opportunity to know gabby and i together and i worked closely with her. >> obviously, no matter what political side of the aisle you're on, she was -- she is an incredibly charming individual. i doubt if she ever saw you, senator, without smiling. i can't imagine that happening without her coming up with a huge grin and perhaps even a hug, even though you differed on politics and did so obviously as strongly as either one of you could. i can't imagine meeting you

without a smile. >> that's right. and we had many opportunities to work since then and you are right about her personality. and that outgoing personality is a reason why she enjoyed meeting with constituents and didn't surprise me she would be out meeting her constituents. >> we could get into other issues. we are here to pray for the recovery of a congresswoman but i assume obviously, you, a public figure of long-standing, i'm sure there have been times when you looked over your shoulder, looked through a crowd, perhaps remembering our history of violence towards our own elected official and now after this, what is the security level that should be in place when folks like yourself and gabrielle giffords, congresswoman and others are out meeting their swepts? what should happen now to perhaps protect the next life? >> first of all, i don't think

most of us would want to be smothered in security or kept from our constituents. we want to lead normal lives and don't want anything to get between us and our constituents and i don't think anything will change except one thing and that is when we have public forums and probably not as small as the one gabby had, but when we have events where there are 200, 300 people, local law enforcement will be advised and she did advise the sheriff's department and they'll send a couple of folks over to make sure nothing gets out of hand. unless there is an explicit threat, i don't think first of all, there aren't the resources to provide the kind of security that would protect us and even then, there is no way -- look at the shootings of the president. >> you have some protection do

you not because you are leadership? >> five members of the house and five members of the senate who are in the succession and continueance of government and by statute, we are provided that kind of stuart. and i can tell you that aren't enough people to provide security to everybody --, well, you know, even during workdays. it is a risk that all of us are willing to take. and ordinarily it's not a problem. i would note that judge roll was a good friend of mine and he had round-the-clock protection for a month when he had a lot of threats and that's what happens when there is a threat and there is one outstanding on me, for example, whenever there is a threat, we are provided protection until the issue is resolved. and obviously what happened to judge roll was that he literally was in the wrong place at the

wrong time intending to visit with representative giffords and no longer with us. but there is not a finer public servant than judge john roll. >> thanks for spending a few moments with us. i had asked for the speaker of the house, and john rogers and the sheriff to comment oh, yes, we are a community of madmen and at least a madman who took the lives of the innocent and helpless and defenseless but we are a community of heroes, the two men who tackled the killer, the man who stood in front of his wife as he took the bullets that could have taken her life, the mother who sheltered her child, these are people that happened without to their own safety and in a moment of terror and terrible confusion and

terrible carnage, i know you are proud of them, senator. >> they did what they thought was right and didn't think about it before they acted and to add to that list, people who helped those who were wounded. i think gabby may find that she can owe her life to not only the people who helped her right there at the scene but the speed with which she was gotten to the hospital, the skill of the surgeons who were prepared to do this kind of thing. there are a lot of people to thank. and in representative giffords' case, we hope and pray she will have a full and speedy recovery, but they have made that possible by their ability to take care of her and by the way, the others who were wounded as well. one by one, they are being released and we are being grateful. >> there has been immediate legislation passed by in a

nonpartisan by every house member and senator in arizona, bill taken to the governor that will be signed and become law before the sun goes down here in arizona protecting the privacy of those that wilburry their dead during this week after this carnage. i'm sure you would suggest that is appropriate. other states have these protections as we have this nut case from toe peeka that will come to try to destroy the solemn occasion, but also the names of these -- the innocent that died. i think it is appropriate, is it not. there must be a moment of privacy and if disruption has to be limited to some extent, i would think. >> i think so. i'm not aware of what the state legislature did. i'm greatly aware of a court case to withhold these demonstration. but it is the most unseemly

republic hence i believe thing i can think of. and there are people in tucson who are prepared to attend those funerals early and line up on the sidewalk just to keep these other people from out of state to disrupt the proceedings and i appreciate the thoughtfulness that happened -- i appreciate the thoughtfulness of those who are willing to do that. >> we'll talk about political climate and other things. i know this isn't the time. you wanted to talk about congresswoman giffords and offer your prayers as the congresswoman is and for the heroes that were there at the moment of need for their neighbors and for the unfamiliar that were around them. i thank you for doing that. i accept this interview with some limbtations and wish you the best and i want you to

comment on gabrielle giffords for those who did not know her. i think from the other side of the aisle, there was admiration and affection for in remarkable congresswoman. >> you described her accurately and i appreciate the opportunity to do that. and also, frankly to mention my good friend john roll who is going to be sorl, sorl missed as one of the favorite people on the federal bench in arizona. every practitioner and every judge. he will be sorely missed. we will talk about those issues at a later date. >> senator, kime, -- senator kyl, thanks. >> jeff rogers is here. state representative steve farley spent some time for us and republican counselman and

speaker of the house of representatives kirk adams who moved this legislation to protect the privacy of those who wilburry their dead and representatives of the giffords' office. their office is open for business and they are accommodating people, constituent requests as well as those who are offering theirs -- their prayers and seeing to it their voices are heard and praying for the survival of congresswoman gabrielle giffords shot in the head on saturday and the killing of six others and wounding of 14. also would like to thank u.s. senator kyl. sheriff dupnik was with us and did not back off from his statements and said the political statement in a arizona following 1070 and rhetoric could have been a contributing factor to this madman and

killing spree. he said we must take a look at this. he mentioned gun control and mentioned about mental for people and is it available and could have prevented. in studio for our audience is the chair of the republican party in pima county, brian miller, thanks for being with us. >> obviously, you were a candidate in the primary to run against gabrielle giffords. you were campaign to take her on in the general election. let's talk about your election with giffords, you said you would be a better candidate. but others that were running, you had respect for this congresswoman, didn't you? >> i absolutely did. and got to meet gabrielle giffords one time behind the lights and the cameras and we had a nice talk, i don't know, 20, 25 minutes and i can tell

you in that short amount of time, you can tell what kind of person you are dealing with. i would like to think so. and i can tell you, she is a good, decent, hornlable and dedicated servant and nice and gentle nice woman. >> you are a pilot and flew in afghanistan and continue to train pilots here. >> yes. >> you were recent little elected as chair of the republican party. >> pima county republican party. >> one of the first things that has happened here, pretty informal on c-span and on our show for that matter, i believe you were contacted by rogers, the nutcase from kansas, the idea he would call the dead vicious names and attack gareds lying wounded fighting for her

life. he has been known for disrupting military funeral services across the country and looked upon and said he would come here to disrupt and protest. you join jeff rogers, the chair of the democratic party as well as well as the tea pearlt movement and said, look, we will all join hands and stand shoulder to shoulder to prevent these disruption of the mourners at these funerals and you did not hesitate as i recall. >> jeff rogers and i and trent hum fridays, we stand arm in harm committed to minimizing the impact this this group has on the dignity and respect that our community deserves and these families deserve. wer like you said, we have yet to bury the dead. people are mourning and this is the human aspect of it and can't

be overlooked and we will do what we can to minimize their impact. i don't know the details what has come out of phoenix in the state legislature, but regardless of that, there will be a unified effort to minimize their impact. >> well, brian, new law will prevent a particular distance from which these protestors can travel toward the mourners and will be enforced. if it is not enforced, you will be there to see to it that these people will have the dignity to bury their dead in the privacy of their mourning and i know jeff rogers will join you. that is one thing that all of us can agree on. there is no question, in your campaign in the primary, there was heated rhetoric over immigration, gun control, abortion, all kinds of things. you weren't willing to participate in this hate talk. i don't want to suggest,

although it might be appropriate that those who were more than willing to do that, preach fear, prejudice and hate, to do that to get elected and i won't draw attention to them. you refused to do that and you said that is not appropriate. you said it during your campaign. >> i did . i'm very proud of the -- i was always proud of the way that we ran my campaign. and the reason it was always like that is because i do believe in the integrity of the process. i believe in the goodness of the american system. and in order to do that, you have to take, i think it is required, to take the personalization out, to talk about policy, not personalities, to talk about the issues on the table as oppose todd the characters behind them. it's not the -- sometimes not the most effective way to

politic, because you try to take the emotion out, but i believe in the long run that is what gives us a healthy system. i think that this is one of the learning points, i suppose, of an event like this, is it recages us to what is really important and allows us to see, i hope, that people that enter life of public service, you cannot forget their humanity. yes, we are always going to criticize people in public service but remember to criticize their arguments or their ideas and never to go after them personally, demonize them, because it is dangerous. i do not want to insinuate that that led to these events on saturday. i and the pima county republican party will lead by example. we will not cast blame or point fingers because at this point

there is conjecture, there is an ongoing investigation and it is irresponsible to do so and we will continue to push for a time of healing and not blaming because we are in the human aspect of this where people are still clinging to life and people are burying their loved ones. brian miller, the chair of the pima county republican pilot, candidate for the primary in congressional district eight and won by gabrielle giffords who fights for her life at university medical center. there isn't any question that this is going to come up about the rhetoric, but i think perhaps it's an opportunity to change. speaking with the speaker of the house of representatives, he suggested it is time to lower the level of the talk and no question that steve farley said, i apologize and i'm sorry if i

crossed the line. it may be an opportunity, including me, i have the microphone to call people names and i have. perhaps it's time to say we have to eliminate the personalities and talk about the issues. we will always differ on issues. there are many opposed as to how we deal with illegal immigration. it is an emotional issue and it is an environment of race, death and those who die trying toll come across. these are emotional issues. how this legislature will deal with the budget deficit that may go back to cutting more of education funding k-12, cutting 300,000 people off access of health insurance because of this budget crisis, there will be

heated debate and many will disagree with how to solve the financial crisis of arizona. hopefully this tragedy will bring us to a point where we can discuss it without the name calling. do you see that as a possibility? you have been in the middle of these debates and name calling. you didn't participate in on it but you have seen it and i have as well. >> you always try to learn lessons from events in life and something as tragic as this, there are bound to be many opportunities from that. and i would say if we take what you just described from this, that would be a plus. but, you know, somehow we have to learn that and i think it would be appropriate and i hope that we can continue -- you know, i made the comment recently, i hope we get back to the heated rhetoric, i mean heated debate, but like i said,

i never been comfortable, never been personally approved of the personal attacks and that sort of thing because i think it is counterproductive and i will lead the republican party to the best of my ability in that direction and i know a lot of them agree with me. i did get elected as the chair and we are headed in the right direction and i hope jeff rogers will do the same on his side. >> i'm sure you never heard from the republicans since saturday that said anything but, my, god, and i hope and pray that gabrielle giffords recovers, that we can comfort the families of the dead and pray for the survival of those wounded. and i know that's what the number of calls -- i mean i have followed politics here for 47 years. and i'm positive that's what the phone calls -- i don't want to be a public relations voice for

the republican party. i don't want to answer but what was the reabsence? >> people that knew of my dealings in politics, they would come up or it was at church, running into people at the store, sorry republicans, some not affiliated with politics,, but there was a huge outpouring of emotions. people outside the community, if you take away the professions, judge roll and representative giffords, this was an aassault in our community, in our city and we are dealing with it on personal level and i think the people here in tucson get it and i'm very proud to be a member of this community and i think we will continue to allow these families and friends to grieve with dignity. >> by the way, i'm sure in your

military life, you have seen heroism, there are those that would step up to protect their comrades. i have tried to emphasize throughout all our talk shows, that, yeah, we are a community of a madman and there are crazies out there and perhaps we failed in not only we disburse our guns but mental health might have been able to deter this individual. we don't know and we need to talk about it on talk radio or c-span, but there were heroes there. and you know, there is another point before we get to the heroes, when we talk about gabe zimmerman and here was this spokesperson for gabby giffords' campaign and for her office that

died in the line of duty. these people, this congressmen and women are in the line of duty and he died in the line of duty, perhaps not on the battle front? >> reading about the events, reaction of the crowd members, the heroes that stopped the gunman the other day, i don't think you can look at that and not get choked up about it, about the willingness of these people to risk their lives, to put an end to that madness. on the front of the "arizona republic," we have this pick and it says my friend's dad was shot. and that's what we have to remember is the fact that our community is hurting and i appreciate that you are willing -- that we can discuss these politics later. and believe me, there is a lot

to discuss, a lot of things has been said that i cannot wait until the time is appropriate to address them. but for now, we must focus on this, focus on the fact that that this girl's friend's dad was shot. >> the heroism, too, and those in the military like yourself, train and fly an a-10 are trained to go into harm's way. it must be something in your mind that says how much you admire these citizens, the elderly, the 75-year-old woman grabbing for the magazine and knowing he could have shot her. and the wounded man with the crease across his forehead was on top of him and another man who obviously did not realize that the gun was not secure, that any moment the gunman could have inserted another clip and

shot 31 more people. they were on top of him. and i hashingen back to the man who threw himself in front of his wife to protect her and the mother who grabbed her daughter to protect her and was shot three times. and then, of course, the idea that daniel hernandez ran toward the bullets and grabbed gabrielle giffords, hugged her and tried to treat her wound and stop the bleeding, that is an astounding situation, those are beyond those who are trained to react to a war situation, but they did. so. it's just amazing. and as a trained military pilot, your admiration must be amazing. >> it's off the charts. when you train for something like that. at a certain point the training

takes over. but if you haven't been, i can only stand back in awe at the actions of these people. >> very quickly, there is no question, the politics will continue. you and i both know that. but a dialogue should be here. we are a progressive radio station and have been throughout this evolution of political up-al in the state of arizona but we interview more republicans than we do democrats, but ought to be a place on talk radio, a place where people can come and share their differences and ask for understanding about their particular point of view. if we don't have that means by which people can address their grieveances or talk with people and i fear that elected officials may be more foreign to us and not available to us because of security reasons, we

will lose a key in our democracy, won't we? it will be several damaged? >> one of the things we must guard against immediately and i hope no one misunderstands, i'm going to compare it with september 11, 2001, not in scope, but in the potential for overreach or pennsylvania bad reaction by politicians and with good intent. we must remember that we are individuals were rights, natural rights, civil rights that must not be trampled upon by the government and i don't want to get into the individual politics of it, but inevitably, whenever there is a tragedy, we must guard as citizens and stand together and say that we can take care of these things because i will also advise this,

no politician, no law, no policy, no nothing can ever stop the incidents of random, isolated violence. there has always been a case in the history of humankind and there always will be. i think this event is more a reflection of culture than politics but politics reflects culture and the responsibility lies to be really affected in each individual in the community, in our churches, in our synagogues, in our clubs, in our gatherings, because sometimes we have a little bit too much trust in the ability of politicians. >> we are talking with brian miller, chair of republican party in pima county. i want to thank u.s. senator

john kyl and called us from the phoenix capital of arizona and thank sheriff dupnik who did not back off he against his comments and thank steve farley who is a democrat, who was a part of the law-making body in phoenix that moved today the arizona legislature to pass an emergency act to protest within 300 feet during funeral or burial services. passed unanimously through the state house and senate as a measure to prevent a planned protest against the memorial services and funeral services. and even the democrats joined in with republicans to do this. a state senator said we have joined together to provide small nesh of comfort for the families

grieving. and the state shall not allow picturing or engagement of protesting activities and shall not cause activities to occur within 300 feet of a property line of any establishment during a funeral or burial service he. other states have been passed these laws. it shall be enforced in tucson, arizona,, as the families bury their dead. we will talk with the governor of the state of arizona who spoke before the legislature and limited her remarks to the terrible tragedy in tucson saturday but also in speaking with other engagements as well as a news conference calling gabrielle giffords her friend and sharing the emotion of sadness and of grieve that all of us feel here in arizona. the governor certainly, a very

-- somewhat popular and many respects governor in 1070 and received we can learn from this horrible, terrible tragedy before we talk with governor brewer. >> just remembering that everybody engaged in politics i think at some level for their entire level, they were trying to do what they believe is best. this is the humanity of it.

we disagree on policy and ideas, but we can never forget that we are all just fellow travelers and i hope we can remember that going forward. >> that will come sbool play as republicans talk about their political agenda, which differs obviously from the democratic one. arizona is faced with an incredible amount of obstacles. our debt may be as high as $2 million and severe cuts within our school system, health care. there is no citizen of arizona that will not be affected by the enormityy of the economic challenges of arizona. a state harder hit than any other, from a housing decline to the terrible destruction of our economy, unemployment rate still at 10rs and perhaps many people believe it to be higher. but we have terrible obstacles and challenges and must overcome

them. brian, thanks. we need to go to the governor. >> and i know the people of arizona will rise to the challenge. >> brian, thank you soich much. here is the governor of the state of arizona, the honorable january brewer. governor, thanks for being with us today. >> good afternoon, john and to all your listeners. >> from your victory and election you were expected to lay out an ambitious policy agenda, but in the wake of this terrible tragedy, you deferred your annual address to call for prayer and mourning for the victims of the mass shooting, the target was gabrielle giffords. i was moved by your touching remarks following the shooting. you spoke of gabrielle giffords not just as a fellow political figure, but as a friend. >> absolutely. and a friend she was.

she i is a friend to everybody in arizona but especially to her constituents. this is a terrible tragedy and we need to continue our grieving pro -- process, certainly, and i believe postponing my presentation on the state of the state, we delivered actually what the state of the state was, we were in pain, deep pain and we are going to come together and not let this bring us down and right from all of this. it has a horrible, horrible tragedy. one that anyone could have ever imagined in their worst nightmare. >> you will sign, if you have not already, this legislation passed in an emergency act barring the protest activities within 300 feet for a funeral or

burial service. >> absolutely. i'm on my way back to phoenix, and if it is on my desk, i will put my signature on it. >> you must have felt goodall coming together to protect the privacy of those who mourn the dead. perhaps it is the beginning of a more, i think, civil discourse about our politics. certainly, it was an act of unison, republicans and democrats saying, we can't solve the problems, can't understand perhaps this horrible tragedy but we can protect those who mourn our dead and we will do that in arizona. >> absolutely. and it is the right thing to do. and we will come together again on other issues. philosophically, we will always have our differences, but in regards to this particular issue, we will come together and we have in the past, john, you know that. but this was an important piece of legislation that we get it

done quickly and they have done that, i understand. and as soon as i have it on my desk, you will have my proud signature on it. >> governor, i know that your time is limited here, but there is absolutely no question that are tucson is in the spotlight once again of a terrible tragedy. here we are on c-span, all across the country, all across the globe and speaking to people here in southern arizona, what do you say to people who might be concerned about this image of arizona after this mass killing and our debates over illegal immigration legislation and other issues that perhaps divide us. what do you say to the people all across this country about your state? >> i think after seeing what happened and the city of tucson and arizona, the people across america have seen the resiliencey of a community that is supportive of each other,

that are decent, good people. i just came from the hospital. saw the people out there with the vigil, praying, showing their courage and they saw our fire department, our paramedics, our e.m.s., u.n.c. hospital, staff, emergency room doctors and staff, everyone working together. they saw a community that is loved and is loved. and i'm so proud -- it's an unfortunate situation what has happened down here on saturday, by it's not going to bring us down, john. we are going to rise and learn from it. and that was an assault certainly on our republic and our democracy. it's not going to bring us down. we are going to rise together.

>> governor, thank you for your comments today on our show and thank you for your comments on c-span and the rest of the world. i appreciate this opportunity to talk with you. this is now something that we all have to come together to not only to learn to deal with, deal with our grieve, our anger and come together as a state that can overcome this horrific, terrible tragedy. governor january brewer, thanks for being with us. >> thank you, john. >> we had members from the arizona legislature. we had the communications director of giffords' office and a constituent services representative of gabrielle giffords' office, expressing love and support for their boss.

we want to thank sheriff is dupnik. and thank senator john kyl for being with us and he spoke to us about security of the public officials not only across the nation. brian miller, chair of the pima county republican party and governor of arizona, honorable january brewer and go to democratic senator from phoenix. senator, thanks for being with us, your comments on the bipartisan approach to protecting those that will mourn the dead here in tucson after this tragedy. >> it's my pleasure, john, and i have to say extend my thanks to the senate president and speaker of the house and republican democratic colleagues for joining me in supporting this legislation which we passed today in both chambers and is on the governor's desk. it is not a partisan event.

there is time for politics and time for prayers. j.d. hayworth said that. we agree. we need to provide comfort and protection so they can be free from harassment and intimidation. >> i talk about heated rhetoric all the time and take tremendous exception to what is happening in arizona from an and log that i disagree with. i don't think i will stop that. i will be critical of a republican majority that may do away with insurance for 300,000 people of arizona. i don't know how i will continue to do it. you have been one of the more outupon critics and this is a role you will continue to play. this has changed us all. i'm not quite sure and may lower the level of our discourse and may bring us back to more civility. but i'm not sure, what do you think? >> it is too early to tell but

you and i have talked about it many times. even before this great tragedy, we talked br the need to return to civility. i believe very strongly in the things i believe in and ready to speak for that and continue to work for them, but i have done so and do so in a way that is respectful and find compromise and consensus and do it without the intensive rhetoric that we have seen escalating in past years. that is not partisan but both sides of the aisle have said so and so is a terrorist, not patriotic, and those are the terms we don't need to use but we should talk about our differences in policy instead of villifying each other and adding to this boiling pot of rhetoric. >> we ought to eliminate this association with weapons in

politics. you know, i really think that no matter this climate caused this horrible tragedy or not, when you associate guns and automatic weapons at a gathering of the president in phoenix or the association of targeting, i think somewhere there ought to be a line drawn. i only have 40 seconds here, senator, but guns and politics, please. >> gosh, that's a tough one. this is arizona, so the 2nd amendment is probably one of the most important amendments to our state, but we have a duty as a legislature to provide some reasonable regulations to protect the citizens of our community and we can have a honest discussion once we get through the difficult time of fighting and supporting gabby and the other survivors and mourning those whose lives have been lost. senator, i appreciate you taking time with us.

we have had many guests from the arizona state legislature and giffords' staff. thanks to our c-span audience. thanks to southern arizona for listening. . .

>>: mr. speaker, members of the assembly, hoosier friends

and neighbors, thank you yet again for the privilege of this platform. for most of us, one of the strongest memories of our youth is that great school teacher, that magical man or woman who somehow reached us, and stretched us, and in the process left indelible recollections. for me, one of those was bob watson -- still today, mr. watson to me -- who introduced us to mysteries of the periodic table in high school chemistry. in addition to mixing potions that suddenly turned purple, and terrifying pop quizzes, mr. watson was famous for his aphorisms, little sayings so often repeated that his students still smile and recite them to each other decades later. and the most frequently applied of all of watson's wisdom was: "good things come to those who wait. patience is the essence

of life." patience does not come easily to a teenager -- or to adults, for that matter. at the grocery store, the airport scanner, or the bmv, none of us likes to wait. like all americans, hoosiers are waiting tonight for a national economic recovery. far too many are without work and, even worse than their number, is how long many have been waiting, waiting for that next job, waiting for the basic human fulfillment of knowing you are standing on your own feet, providing for yourself and your family. the deep frustration of unemployed hoosiers is shared by those of us charged with public duties in these times. the best efforts of our state, or any one state to break free of recession's suffocating clutch are never adequate, and we can't wait for better times. building one of the best job climates in the country isn't

enough. breaking the all-time record for new job commitments isn't enough. adding new jobs at twice the national average isn't enough. we did all those things in 2010, but it couldn't offset the terrible drag of a national economic ebbtide that continues to leave too many boats stuck in the muck. we hoosiers don't like to wait when we can act. if we cannot overcome a nationwide job hemorrhage, we can fight back better than others. again in 2010, we broke all records for road building and bridge building, for the fourth year in a row, and put thousands to work doing so. as the final installment of our 2008 property tax cuts took effect, hard-pressed hoosier home and business owners found an additional $600 million still in their bank accounts. tonight, because of our action,

indiana's property taxes are the lowest anywhere in america. and thanks to a ringing 72 percent verdict by our fellow citizens, who voted in a referendum to protect those cuts in our constitution, they're going to stay that way. [applause] and in the clearest example of hoosier resolve, we handled a two-billion dollar drop in state revenues as any family would, as any small business would. we decided what is most important, separated the "must do's" from the "nice-to-do's," and matched spending to income. across the country, state spending, despite the recession, is still up sharply the last six years. but here,

it is virtually flat, one-third the rate of inflation. elsewhere, state government payrolls have grown, but here, we have the nation's fewest state employees per capita, fewer than we did in 1978. during this terrible recession, at least 35 states raised taxes, but indiana cut them. since '04, the other 49 states added to their debt, by 40 percent. we paid ours down by 40 percent. many states exhausted any reserves they may have had, and plunged into the red, but our savings account remains strong, and our credit is aaa. what we did in 2008, and 2009, and 2010, we will do again this year. we will take the action necessary to limit state spending to the funds available. we will protect struggling taxpayers against

the additional burden of higher taxes. we will continue improving our jobs climate by holding the line on taxes as our competitors take the easy way and let theirs rise. we say tonight, whatever course others may choose, here in indiana we live within our means. we put the private sector ahead of government, and the taxpayer ahead of everyone, and we will stay in the black, whatever it takes. in two days, i will send to this assembly a proposed budget for the next biennium. as always, i know that our final product will be a mutual one, and i welcome your amendments and improvements so long as they live up to the following principles: one, i just

mentioned, no tax increases. can i get an "amen" to that? [applause] two, we must stay in the black at all times with positive reserves at a prudent level throughout the time period. three, the budget must come into structural balance, meaning that no later than its second year, annual revenues must exceed annual spending, with no need for any use of our savings account. four, no gimmicks. we put an end to practices like raiding teacher pension funds, and shifting state deficits to our schools and universities by making them wait until the state had the cash to pay them. that's a form of waiting we should never impose again. and to hasten the return of an even stronger fiscal position, i again ask you to vote for lasting

spending discipline by enacting an automatic taxpayer refund. when the day comes again when state reserves exceed 10 percent of annual needs, it will be time to stop collecting taxes and leave them with the people they belong to. remember what the hoosier philosopher said: "it's tainted money. 'taint yours, and 'taint mine." beyond some point, it is far better to leave dollars in the pockets of those who earned them than to let them burn a hole, as they always do, in the pockets of government. doing the people's business while living within the people's means is our fundamental duty in public

service. redrawing our legislative lines without gerrymandering, and adjusting an out-of-balance unemployment insurance system, are other examples of duties we must meet this year. i know you'll do so, head on. so we had a little election last november. it changed a few things, like the seating arrangement in this chamber. one thing it didn't change at all: our common duty to take every action possible to make this a better state, a more progressive state, a standout and a special and distinctive state. that election, like all elections, was not a victory for one side. it was an instruction to us all. it was not an endorsement of a political party. it was an assignment to everyone present. by itself, it accomplished nothing, but it threw open the door to great accomplishment. starting tonight, we must step through that door, together. one

opportunity lies in reform of our criminal justice system. helped by the nation's most respected experts, a bipartisan task force of police, judges, prosecutors, and others fashioned a package of changes to see that lawbreakers are incarcerated in a smarter way, one that matches their place of punishment to their true danger to society. we can be tougher on the worst offenders and protect hoosiers more securely, while saving a billion dollars the next few years. let's seize this opportunity, without waiting. two years ago, the bipartisan commission led by two of indiana's most admired leaders presented to us a blueprint to bring indiana local government out of the pioneer days in which it was created and into the modern age. of their 27 proposals,

seven have been enacted in some form. that leaves a lot of work to do. indiana is waiting. some of the changes are so obvious that our failure to make them is a daily embarrassment. the conflict of interest when double-dipping government workers simultaneously sit on city or county councils, interrogating their own supervisors and deciding their own salaries, must end. the same goes for the nepotism that leads to one in four township employees sharing a last name with the politician who hired them. township government, which does not exist in most states, made some sense on the indiana frontier. many township lines were laid out to accommodate the round-trip distance a horse could travel in a day. we've come a little ways since then. today, over four thousand politicians, few of them known to the voters they represent, run over a thousand different township governments. they are

sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars in reserves. some have 8 years of spending needs stashed in the bank, yet they keep collecting taxes. some townships are awash in money, while the township next door does not have enough to provide poor relief to its needy citizens. adjacent townships each buy expensive new fire trucks when one would suffice to cover them both. those serving in township government are good people, and well motivated. we thank them for their service. our problem lies not with those holding all these offices, but with the antique system that keeps them there. i support the clear and simple recommendation of kernan-shepard commission that we remove this venerable but obsolete layer of government, and assign what little remains of its duty to elected city and county officials. likewise our

somewhere short of an amen. [laughter] strange arrangement of a three-headed county executive should change. no business has three ceo's. no football team has three head coaches. no military unit would think of having three coequal commanding offers. we should join the rest of america in moving to a single elected county commissioner, working with a strengthened legislative branch, the county council, to make decision making accountable and implementation swift and efficient. as in the last two sessions, i look forward to constructive cooperation with the assembly in bringing reform about. the only outcome that is unacceptable is no action at all. hoosiers have waited for

decades for our government design to catch up to society. let's not keep them waiting any longer. in no realm is our opportunity larger than in the critical task of educating our children. the need for major improvement, and the chance for achieving it, is so enormous tonight that opportunity rises to the level of duty. advocates of change in education become accustomed to being misrepresented. if you challenge the fact that 42 cents of the education dollar are somehow spent outside the classroom, you must not respect school boards. if you wonder why doubling spending didn't produce any gains in student achievement, you must be criticizing teachers. if your heart breaks at the parade of young lives permanently handicapped by a school experience that leaves them unprepared for the world of

work, you must be "anti-public schools." so let's start by affirming once again that our call for major change in our system of education, like that of president obama, his education secretary and so many others, is rooted in a love for our schools, those who run them, and those who teach in them. but it is rooted most deeply in a love for the children whose very lives and futures depend on the quality of the learning they either do or don't acquire while in our schools. nothing matters more than that. nothing compares to that. some seek change in education on economic grounds,

and they are right. to win and hold a family-supporting job, our kids will need to know much more than their parents did. i have seen the future competition every time i go abroad in search of new jobs for our state, in the young people of japan, korea, taiwan, china. let me tell you, those kids are good. they ought to be. they are in school not 180 days a year like here, but 210, 220, 230 days a year. by the end of high school, they have benefited from two or three years more education than hoosier students. along the way, they have taken harder classes. it won't be easy to win jobs away from them. it's not just tomorrow's jobs that are at stake. the quality of indiana education matters right now. when we are courting a new business, right behind taxes, the cost of energy,

reasonable regulation, and transportation facilities, comes schools. "what kind of school will my children, and our workers' children attend" is a question we're always asked. sometimes in some places, it costs us jobs today. there is no time to wait. in 1999, indiana passed a law that said schools must either improve their results or be take over by new management. the little ones who entered first grade then, full of hope and promise, are 18 now. in the worst of our districts, half of them will not be graduating. god bless and keep them, wherever they are and whatever life now holds for them. for those children, we waited too long. and it's not just about the most failing of our schools. the last couple years have seen some encouraging advancements after

years of stagnation. but the brute facts persist: only one in three of our children can pass the national math or reading exam. we trail far behind most states and even more foreign countries on measures like excellence in math: at the recent rate of improvement, it would take 21 years for us to catch slovenia, and that's if slovenia stands still. that's too long to wait. that's too many futures to lose. in every discussion, someone says "this is very complicated." then someone says, "these changes won't be perfect," and then you hear, "the devil is in the details.". all true. but we can no longer let complexity be an excuse for inaction, nor imperfection the enemy of the good. when it comes to our children's future, the real devil is not in the details, he's in the delay, and in 2011 is the year the delay

must end. we know what works. it starts with teacher quality. teacher quality has been found to be 20 times more important than any other factor, including poverty, in determining which kids succeed. class size, by comparison, is virtually meaningless. put a great teacher in front of a large class, and you can expect good results. put a poor teacher in front of a small class, do not expect the kids to learn. in those asian countries i mentioned, classrooms of 35 students are

common, and they're beating our socks off. we won't have done our duty here until every single indiana youngster has a good teacher every single year. today, 99 percent of indiana teachers are rated "effective." if that were true, 99 percent -- not one-third -- of our students would be passing those national tests. today's teachers make more money not because their students learned more but just by living longer and putting another certificate on the wall. their jobs are protected not by any record of great teaching but simply by seniority. we have seen "teachers of the year" laid off, just because they weren't old enough. this must change. we have waited long enough. teachers should have tenure, but they should earn it by proving their ability to help kids learn. our best teachers should be paid more, much more,

and ineffective teachers should be helped to improve or asked to move. today, the outstanding teacher, mr. watson, whose kids are pushed and led to do their best, are treated no better than the worst teacher in the school. that is wrong. for the sake of fairness and the sake of our children, it simply has to end. we have waited long enough. we are beginning to hold our school leaders accountable for the only thing that really matters: did the children grow? did the children learn? starting this year, schools will get their own grades in a form we can all understand: a to f. there will be no more hiding behind jargon and gibberish. but in this new world of accountability, it is only fair to give our school

leadership full flexibility to deliver results we now expect. already, i have ordered our board of education to peel away unnecessary requirements that consume time and money without really contributing to learning. we are asking this assembly to repeal other mandates that, whatever their good intentions, ought to be left to local control. i am a supporter of organ donation, and cancer awareness, and preventing mosquito-borne disease, but if a local superintendent or school board thinks time spent on these mandated courses interferes with the teaching of math, or english, or science, it should be their right to eliminate them from a crowded school day. and while unions and collective bargaining are the right of those teachers who wish to engage in them, they go too far when they dictate the color of the teacher's lounge, who can monitor recess, or on what days the principal is allowed to hold a staff meeting. we must

free our school leaders from all the handcuffs that reduce their ability to meet the higher expectations we now have for student achievement. lastly, we must begin to honor the parents of indiana. we must trust them, and respect them enough, to decide when, where, and how their children can receive the best education, and therefore the best chance in life. visiting with high school seniors, i discovered one new option we should be offering. a significant fraction of our students complete, or could complete, their graduation requirements in well under 12 years. we should say to these diligent young people and their families, if you choose to finish in 11 years instead of 12 we will give you the money

we were going to spend while you cruised through 12th grade, as long as you spend that money on some form of further education. in this year's survey of high school students, three out of four said they would like to have that option. let's empower our kids to defray the high cost of education through their own hard work, by entrusting them with this new and innovative choice. another new kind of choice has come to indiana parents the last couple years, as a byproduct of our property tax reductions. families are now able to choose public schools outside the districts they reside in, tuition-free. schools have begun advertising campaigns, touting their graduation rates and higher test scores. this competition is a highly positive development, as long as it is

fair. i ask you to protect our families against any possibility of discrimination by requiring that any school with more applicants than room fill it through a lottery or other blind selection process. indiana has lagged sadly behind other states in providing the option of charter schools. we must have more of them, and they must no longer be unjustly penalized. they should receive their own funding exactly when other public schools do. if they need space, and the local district owns a vacant building it has no prospect of using, they should turn them over. widening parent's options in these ways will enable the vast majority of children who attend the school of their choice. but one more step is necessary: for families who cannot find the right traditional public school, or the right charter public school for their child, and are not wealthy enough to move near one, justice requires

that we help. we should let these families apply dollars that the state spends on their child to the non-government school of their choice. in that gallery and outside sit the most important guests of the evening. they are children, and parents of children who are waiting for a spot in a charter or private school. they believe their futures will be brighter if they can make that choice. look at those faces. will you be the one to tell the parents "tough luck"? are you prepared to say to them, "we know better than you"? we won't tell you

where to buy your groceries or where to get your tires rotated, but we will tell you, no matter what you think, your child will attend that school, and only that school. we have the money to send our children where we think best, but if you don't, well, too bad for you. these children, and their parents, have waited long enough, for a better chance in life. and indiana has waited long enough for the kind of educational results that a great state must achieve. i have spoken of the economic implications. but at bottom, this is not about material matters. it is about the civil right, the human right, of every indiana family to make decisions for its children. it's about the right of all hoosier children to realize their full potential in life. will you join me in saying, the waiting is over, change has come, and indiana intends to

lead it. for us sports fans, recent times have brought a frustrating string of "almosts". at 60, tom watson almost won the british open. the colts almost won the superbowl. little butler almost won a national basketball championship. besides the disappointment of coming so close, the bad thing about "almosts" is knowing that you may never get that close to victory, and history, again.

this cannot be the "almost" general assembly. we are on the 18th hole, in the red zone, on the final possession of a chance for historic greatness. indiana has waited long enough for local government that fits the realities of the 21st century. we have waited long enough for an education system known for excellence in teaching, and accountable schools that deliver the results our kids deserve. our parents have waited long enough for the freedom to decide which school is best for their children. we cannot "almost" end the waiting. one thing is certain. the rest of the world will not wait on us. other nations, and other states, are forging ahead with the kind of reforms i have proposed here. indiana is now a leader in business climate, fiscal

integrity, transportation, property taxes, and so many other respects. now comes the chance to lead in ways that, long-term, may matter more than all of those. wishing won't make it so. waiting won't make it so. but those of you in this assembly have a priceless and unprecedented opportunity to make it so. it's more than a proposal. it's an assignment. it's more than an opportunity. it's a duty. our children are waiting. our fellow citizens are waiting. history is waiting. it's going to be a session to remember. you're going to do great things. i can't wait. god bless this assembly and this great state. [applause]

[applause] >> : this joint assembly is adjourned. >> : the chair recognizes represent i have tprepl for a motion. is there a second. all of those in

alexa's state department says it it could remove the sudan and from -- >> and the state department says it could remove sudan from its list of countries that sponsor and terrorism as early as this week depending on the outcome of the election. state department officials speak now on the topic. and this is about 35 minutes. >> and joining us today are the assistant secretary of a state for african affairs and another

guest. each will make brief remarks and then we will open it up for questions. it is my pleasure to introduce the assistant secretary of state. >> thank you and good afternoon in the referendum on southern sudan independence is going extremely well, and we are pleased with the cooperation that we have seen from the leaders on both sides. in the gulf -- the polling process is scheduled to last seven days and end on january 15th. thus far, we are pleased with the high level of turnout and the cooperation of officials in both north and south sudan. peaceful,s has ibeen

with only a handful of reported disturbances. there is no reported conflict in the areas of southern sudan, other than one area. officials from the north and south should be commended for their collaboration and handling of this monumental, challenging and historical task. as we all know, this referendum is in a storage moment for sudan -- an historic moment for sudan and the african community. the people of southern sudan are determining whether they will remain a part of a united sudan are become an independent sovereign state. lasteferendum marxiks the

major phase of the comprehensive peace agreement signed by the representatives of the governments of north and south sudan in january of 2005. a more critical word needs to be done in the coming months to ensure -- more critical work needs to be done in the coming months to ensure final implementation of the agreement , issues related to citizenship, boundaries and wealth sharing remains to be worked out, but indeed sudanese government and the people of the south have defied all of their skeptics in coming this far. and just a few days remain before the polls close, and we

are hopeful that things will remain on course. the united states is committed to doing everything possible to ensure that the referendum and the final implementation of a comprehensive peace agreement lead to an outcome in which the sudanese people can prosperity peacefully under a single or under two separate states. as many of you are aware, president obama and his foreign- policy team, especially secretary of state clinton, un ambassador susan rice, deputy national security adviser in dennis mcdonald, and special envoy scott gratian are putting enormous efforts into supporting the successful outcome and

conclusion of the current referendum. they have been aided and assisted by an ambassador and an ambassador for the darfur issue. i might also say that while we have focused very hard on ensuring the completion of this, we have not taken our eye off of the issue of darfur. we have also in recent months significantly expanded our diplomatic presence throughout southern sudan, placing of very senior officer there and substantially increasing our staff. as these elections move forward over the next several days, we

have american officials located in five of the 10 southern states where they have had an opportunity to observe more closely in the voting. we have also had officers traveling to other states to observe the election process. a successful referendum is in the best interests of sudan, of africa, the united states, and the international community, and we are committed to do as much as we can to ensure that the comprehensive peace agreement is fully implemented and that whatever results will lead to a better relationship between the united states and the people of southern sudan as well as the people of sudan to remain a part

of the north. i will now turn it over to my colleague, the ambassador to. >> thank you very much. as he said, we are very pleased the ability of the government of sudan, the southern government, and particularly i want to pay credit to the southern sudan referendum commission for reaching an agreement, making all of the arrangements that would make it possible to have this referendum begin on time january 9th. i know that some of you are quite aware that for some time people have questioned whether that would be possible politically or technically. the fact that it has come off as a credit across -- is a credit

across the board. i am particularly impressed with the willingness of people in sudan to make very tough decisions. to contemplate the sweat of your country and to reach a decision to go ahead -- the split of your country and to reach a decision to go ahead with that is an impressive that. to make it possible for this referendum to take place, we need the work of the united nations and the commission in sudan. it has been extremely important in providing technical and logistical support for the referendum as well as for security. the american agencies working to make this possible are very impressive. you have the u.s. aid mission -- ssion and others all working out there, knowing their

jobs, and working as a team to make this possible. the chair of the southern sudan referendum commission had to call that a commission together, make them work as a team, worked out the arrangements, work with the international community, fend off a lot of pressures and criticisms and to let off. a lot of people deserve credit for making it possible. this is one big step, but now the two parties, based on the results of the referendum, have to work out all of those post of referendum issues, which frankly, were not addressed very much in the time before. the parties were simply either not ready or not in a position to address them. so we have a big issues out there to be resolved, and these

are going to be tough negotiations. it has to do with the management of the oil sector, the finalization of some of the disputed border areas, questions of citizenship, working out banking and currency arrangements, security arrangements, international legal operations, debt, etc.. a lot of technical work kasten done. there have and technical committees -- the technical work hasn't been done. there have and then technical committees -- technical and warwick hwork has been done. there have been technical committees, some of that is in place. what area is not taking place in

the referendum. and they were, as you know, scheduled to have an of referendum in which they could decide to continue to be part of the north, which they are now, or decide to be a part of the south. there was no agreement on eligibility. the referendum could not be held. this remains an important issue to be resolved in the future. this is also an historical important time as the migration begins. because the migration has not been worked out, there is a lot of tension on the ground. some of the violence we have seen, some of these splashes, are a product of that tension.

-- in these clashes, are a product of that tension. we are working to bring things under control and hopefully contain the situation the long- term resolution is obviously a political decision that has to be made. finally, on the atmosphere, i was visiting polling stations on the north side, all very well organized. no problems, no security problems. people walk in and out feeling no pressure whatsoever. voting has been light in the north, as we suspected. in the cells, as you heard, a lot of people are coming to the as youin the salsouth,

hood, a lot of people are coming to the polls, in -- as you heard, a lot of people are coming to the bulls, very excited -- to the polls, very excited. thousands of domestic observers and international observers are there. in a northern polling station we saw as many as 10 observers at each station, more in some cases. it was a good sign. people were organized. they were eager to make this a success. the move in both north and south, and the way the voting has been going is very positive. let me stop there. i will be happy to take some questions. >> of the tension and violence

that was expected did not happen. does that have to do more with the president or the international court, the criminal court? let me start -- >> let me start, and then we can both answer these questions. no, there was no deal worked out. i think the absence of violence in the south is a reflection of the fact that in both northern and southern leaders have all come together for the same conclusion, that it is in their a comprehensiveo see peace agreement and referendum goes smoothly.

a week ago tuesday, the president visited in an act of enormous political courage. he was met by thousands of people on the street, holding banners, expressing their desire for independence, but instead of being repelled by this message, he spoke very clearly that he would recognize the outcome of the referendum vote, and that if the people of the south chose independence, the government of the north would accept it and would work with an independent southern sudan as a brotherly state. i think there have then, over the last year, a growing recognition among the senior

ranks of the national congress party that this outcome, this vote, was inevitable, essentials, and would in fact open a new door for them as well as the people of the south. >> can i just quickly add to that? there was a lot of concern about the freedom of people in the north, southerners in the north to vote. there might be intimidation or what not. that has also not happened. once it was accepted that this was a process fed needed to go forward, it did not make sense to try to interrupted or disrupted. there was no incentive to make it difficult for the people in the north to vote. >>

the exact processes for citizenship have a frankly not then agreed by both parties. they have said that they do not favor granting dual citizenship for a variety of reasons. for southerners to have an option, the sell-off last to come into being and class citizenship have -- the seouth

has to come into being and pass a citizenship laws. we need a period of time when all of this gets worked out. in the meanwhile, the people in has said the southerners living in the north will be protected. on the question of how the citizenship works out so that people get choice, the details have not been worked out. it is one of the big issues. >> the american rhetoric has changed in the recent weeks,

notably by the secretary herself. how soon can we accept -- expect o the implementation of capethe american incentives and the diplomatic relations? do you have a timeline? >> yes, we do, and that has been communicated to the government. i think the first step would be on completion of the referendum and acceptance of the results, and that the united states would begin the process of examining removal from the state sponsors of terrorism. that involves certain reviews and consultations with congress, but that would begin after the referendum results. that would be the first step myriapods the other steps

involving normalization and finalizing that designation a round would all compane -- would all come a round in july. one of the big processes and starts as a result of the referendum results, but one of the big steps after that would probably be more reports july. >> i would just add to underscore one of the important aspects here. even though we have clearly indicated a willingness to remove saddam from the state sponsor of terrorism -- sudan from the state sponsor of

terrorism list, sudan must also comply with the criteria under the law for the removal of the state-sponsored designation. but it does, in fact, have sufficient time to do that, to align it very closely with any possible independence for the south. >> could you be more specific? what criteria are you mentioning specifically? >> and the state sponsor of says the aoss suspecaw government cannot be engaged in or support any organization last six months. aiding or be abetting terrorism and group

organizations. >> further to your comment about the composition from north and south. is there a timetable for negotiations on these issues to resume? >> northern representatives are people who are technically qualified to deal with those issues. some of the groups have made a lot more progress than others. the security groups have made a lot of progress. the economic group does not make a lot of progress, except on a technical basis. and they know what the issues are. they have received a lot of help.

they have received particular help on dealing with the oil sector. other issues are ones of currency and what that would mean for the two countries. they are gathering a lot of technical information, but i would say that they need more political guidance to go further than they have gone. if that timetable has not been set up. these operate under the auspices of a high-level panel chaired by the president and two former presidents of other countries. the timetable the everybody thought we had a leading up to the referendum did not happen. now we will have to see how the two party set up a new timetable, and we do not have that yet.

>> [unintelligible] will that create a law and order situation? >> there has spent a steady movement of people living in the north and moving south. about 140,000, up 150,000 -- 150,000. what the southern government has just done is to try and make this a little bit more orderly. some people have sold their property, quit their jobs,

thought to the buses were coming and they never came. people were waiting for the barges to take them down river. the bigger problem is the capacity of the cell to handle people coming back. hopefully people will go back to the villages and places they came from. the numbers over time are hard to say. i have heard projections of 300,000, 500 belsen, but we do not know yet. -- 500,000, but we do not know yet. and international community is working to help people get started. along term is the biggest

problem. >> is the you appoint a -- it is the u.s. planning a major hub line? >> -- is the united states planning a major help line? >> we are working very closely with an agency. i have met with officials in the north. we are beginning to work more with people getting ready to go. the un is also working and the government of the north has also allowed for much more access to those communities so we can get a better sense of their timetables. >> i was wondering if you could expand a little more on the whole issue -- i mean comeuppanc