after that, georgetown professor harry holeser talks about job growth in the u.s. and which companies will be hiring. plus your e-mails and phone calls. "washington journal" is next. . . host: on the sunday, january 16, the president is preparing for his state of the union address, to be delivered on tuesday, engineering 25. one idea, first proposed by

senator mark udall, is gaining bipartisan support -- the idea, having members of congress, democrats and republicans, sitting together, side by side, for the state of the union address. it is, under article ii, section 3, of the u.s. constitution to attack the president shall, from time to time, give -- of the u.s. constitution, "the president's job, from time to time, give congress address as he sees a broker at." the numbers to call are on the screen. the story from "the christian science monitor" -- from vitriolic disability -- should parties together at the state of the union? should republicans sit with democrats at the state of the union address? the traditional parting seating

-- partisan sitting device is a negative symbol of congress. others have agreed bid so far, 19 members of congress, democrats and republicans, have gotten behind the idea. we want to hear from you. james, joining us from california. go ahead. jim, you are on the air. the morning and welcome to "washington journal." caller: good morning. together and i would think that they would want to sit together and intermix twin republicans and democrats, which would be great. however, we know that as soon as they leave the state of the union session, they are going to go right back in the chamber and start the same partisan fighting that they have done before. that is my opinion. it does not matter where you

sit, it is how you act. host: the tucson massacre is sparking a discussion of whether overheated, political rhetoric contributes to violence. we want to bring your attention at the top of the hour to what generates headlines in tunisia. "as clashes go on and the power ships began in tunis, the headline is that tanks, police, and gangs of newly deputized young men wielding guns held the deserted streets of tunis saturday night, a day after sporadic rioting and gunfire. part changed and for the second time in 24 hours. there are questions about what kind of government might emerge." they also pull out that bursts of gunfire rang out throughout the capital all day on saturday. patients discharged from hospital reported that the ministry room is packed with

people suffering from gunshot wounds. -- the emergency room was packed with people suffering from gunshot wounds. go ahead, josh. caller: in response to your question of whether or not republicans and democrats should sit together -- i strongly think they should. host: why is that? caller: because, in this day and age, i think our government has come far enough to where we do not need to segregate between parties. we should be -- since we are trying so hard to have change, we need to change our beliefs and change our structures to where we can sit together. host: we will go to francis next in selma, alabama. caller: good morning. yes, they should sit together at the stated the union address. one reason i am saying that --

just being a veteran of the voters' rights act, my community has suffered so gravely because of the segregation and the disparities. right now, we have a man who is a member of the elite of the south who has formed -- the league of the south who is a very polite man, but, quite obviously -- he is the president of our counsel for our area, which is 80% african- american. wherever we are in this community, it never grows or advances. the world could set a better example -- selma has set a better example for the world. maybe we can see some progress. you have to listen to us honestly, republicans, because you love the picture all wrong. -- you have the picture all wrong.

host: should republicans and democrats sat side-by-side at a stated the union? -- sit side by side at the state of the union? the democrats will sit down with republicans on thursday and friday -- will sit down with republicans. house minority whip steny hoyer and house majority whip kevin mccarthy became the latest lawmakers to call for democrats and republicans to sit together boy/girl, boy/girl style for the president's speech, joining a movement of lawmakers including senator mark udall. udall says the image you present helps culture change. that is not just talk. he will put is derrier where his mouth is. "i will sit with joe wilson."

no lie. with 16 members endorsing the plan, we can start to think about potential parings. nancy pelosi with representative alan west, who tried to hire as his chief of staff a woman who pelosi called "garbage." or we can look at kevin brady and tom price, both of whom have called for tim geithner's resignation. attorney general eric holder would be joined by representative darrell issa, who is called obama's "one of the most corrupt administrations" in history. our guest on "newsmakers" is catherines a bid -- kathleen sebelius. she spoke about the impact of health care law will have. >> since the house has chosen to do this as their first order of business rather than work on jobs and the economy, which the

american public said, clearly, is their number one priority, it does present an opportunity for us to, again, remind people what the new house leadership and house member majority is voting to take away. the kind of freedom that americans are just beginning to realize, where they can loosen that kind of chokehold and insurance companies and begin to make some more choices. seniors would lose the annual wellness check up that just begins this year in 2011 -- checkup that just begins this year in 2011. they would not have the opportunity to forgo copays for preventative care. parents of young adults would not be able to keep their children on the family plan, which many have taken advantage of. small-business owners would have to give up their ability to keep their employees in the health insurance market because of the tax credits offered. we can have the conversation

again, reminding people what is at stake, and go back to the days where insurance companies control who have access to coverage and who did not. host: kathleen sebelius is our guest on c-span's "newsmakers." you can watch out at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern. it is also on c-span radio. this article says, with the house preparing to vote on whether to repeal the law, the chamber's new majority is facing a more delicate task -- forging its own path to expand but -- medical coverage." the leaders have made it clear that they regard the repeal vote, scheduled to begin tuesday, as the prelude to it to dump -- to a two-pronged

strategy. a clear sign of recent urban preferences can be gleaned from the -- a house gop proposal drafted in late 2009 that became law last march. the idea from representative dave camp, republican from michigan, the new ways and means committee chairman, who was a chief co-sponsor of that alternative. high-risk pools -- special coverage for americans who are rejected by insurance companies because they are already sick. democrats and republicans -- should they sit together side by side at the stated the union address? next, from st. paul, minn., ernest on the democratic line. caller: we must first come together here in america in order to show the world that we are together, even though we are

holding together. host: from the wall street journal "," will house would sit together -- "the wall street journal," will house whips sit together at the state of the union? "i think the american public would find it a positive thing." louis on our republican line, from tallahassee, fla. good morning. caller: to answer your question, yes, if the constitution says they should do it, they should practice it. i do not know how it is going to be. if it is in the constitution, they should practice it. host: the constitution requires the president to deliver the state of the union. the first one to do so was george washington and he did so in writing. we will have the speech a week

from tuesday. politico as a story for "house gop control is relative." house speaker john boehner is raising eyebrows by turning down an invite to ride on air force one with the president and others as they went to arizona for the tucson memorial. instead, he reappeared at a reception -- he appeared at a reception for maria cino, who was running for the rnc chair. the house speaker was invited to the dinner, but will not be attending. you can read more online at political.com -- politico.com. caller: good morning. i think it is a lovely idea for everyone to sit together and show the whole world that we

stand as americans, not this thing or that thing, but we stand together when push comes to shove. thank you. host: thank you. john from oxon hill, fla. -- jacksonville, florida. caller: i think it is silly symbolism. what counts is people working together, not sitting together. i hope it will show respect for president obama. president bush was disrespected in a major way. that was not appropriate. he is the president, black or white. sitting together, holding cans, singing kumbaya -- holding hands, singing kumbaya -- it is just symbolic. host: this week marks the 50th

anniversary of the swearing in of president john f. kennedy. their speeches and drafts of the inaugural address online -- spf the inaugural address online. you can find president eisenhower's farewell address online as well. the front page of "the new york times" as getting a lot of attention. "israel tests called crucial in the iran nuclear setback." the operations inside israel are among the newest and strongest clues suggesting that this virus was designed as an american- israeli project to sabotage the iranian program. the interviews show experts to pick apart this computer work, describing it as far more

complex or ingenious as anything they had imagined when it began circulating at around the world, and explained, in 2009. again, it was a computer worm shown to sabotage prices -- devices. marcus from oregon on our line for republicans. democrats and republicans together -- sitting side by side. what do you think? caller: first of all, been here for having me on the show -- thank you for having me on the show. i agree with the previous caller they should work together, not just sit together. there have been rumors going around about some man who supposedly lost the game on tv. and also, my balls. host: we will go to tom next. i apologize for that call. caller: how are you today?

i really enjoy your show. i believe it is a good idea to sit together. it cannot hurt. also, i think they should probably start sitting together every day that they are in session. it would only help in the long haul. i guess that is pretty much all i have to say about the subject. host: "after tucson, a saab between obama and matt cain -- mccain -- could the relationship be thawing?" if this article marks the genuine, fresh beginning, it would be one positive thing to come out of the horrific shooting spree in tucson eight days ago. mccain and obama will never be comrades at arms. there is too much difference for that. since mccain went down

them has been evident in almost every public setting in which they have appeared. mccain has reached out to obama with an open hand. that editorial is in "the washington post." we'll go to victor next in bloomington, north carolina, on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. i do not think it really makes a difference. the president of the united states is an illuminati prophet. it is just smoke and mirrors. it does not matter. the president is the devil. i have no respect for the man. he is an illuminati prophet. host: we will stop you there. this article begins by saying,

"the president gave a terrific speech. i disagree with many of his policies, but i believe he is a patriot, sincerely intent on using his time in the office to against our country's cause. i disagree with many -- i reject accusations that his policies and believes mckim on were the to lead a merkel or post to a turning ideals. our political discourse should be more civil than it currently is. we all, myself included, bear some responsibility for it not being so." good morning. caller: good morning to you and all your listeners. i appreciate you taking my call. i think they should sit together. they should also caucus together. if nothing else, should

handcuffed themselves together to get some been done for the benefit of the country. take some of the party politics out of the atmosphere. try to do something to benefit the country as a whole. stop with all the argument and all the petty party politics. host: then you for the call. at his first state of the union address, the president got some feedback from, wilson. here's more from that moment in 2009. >> there are also those who claim that our reform efforts would insure that illegal immigrants -- ensure illegal immigrants. this, too, is false. the reforms i am proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally. not true. moment, with

representative wilson -- next is brian from asheville, north carolina. good morning. caller: i think if they all sat together, it would make for a pretty picture. once they are altogether, we should lock the doors and not let them out until they agree to play nice. host: we will go to a caller in baltimore on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. i think it is very funny. everyone seems to be callable -- gullible, with all sitting together. the president invited boehner on air force one to arizona. he rejected. he invited boehner to speak with china so they can have a coordinated policy toward china. he rejected. i do not know why people think

anything is going to change. we are just playing politics. we should discuss more about the ethics that the republicans want to abolish in the new house gop. those are important things that think we really need to focus on. sitting together -- it is not going to have any affect on my life or anyone's life. is is just comical. host: this is the headline we read earlier, "john boehner declining the state dinner in beit." "john boehner raised eyebrows by turning down an offer to ride on air force one with president obama. he appeared at a reception for maria cino. on the heels of renewed calls for bipartisanship and toned- down political rhetoric, boehner is saying thanks, but no thanks to another offer to appear at an

event with the president, the state dinner for president hu jintao. good morning. caller: i think it is really foolish the way the republicans are really acting. they are digging themselves a hole. john boehner is the worst and should not be in the position that he is, because he is not helping the party. sitting together is not going to prove -- it is -- they are forgetting about the people. it meant you. host: you can join the conversation at online @ twitter.com/cspanwj. one person said -- tucson, ariz., reopened -- safeway in tucson,

ariz., has reopened. they inserted a tracheotomy tube in horsewoman deferreds -- d sheesswoman deferre giffords n is breathing on her own. this is inside the baltimore sun this morning. richard from massachusetts on the independent line. caller: sitting together -- you know, it is ok, but it does not really mean anything. it is just to show people, we're going to sit together, but, down deep, they hate each other. they get the country divided. we hate each other. why cannot we just be honest? let's stop this foolish, should we sit together or knocked?

-- or not. are grown adults -- we are grown adults. host: a group of politicians, including the president of the brady campaign, are among those waiting in in the "washington post"opinion section -- post" opinion section. "what are the prospects for gun- control?" good morning. caller: i am calling to make a comment. i feel like the other gentleman who was just on -- i feel the same way. it is not going to make much difference. this should not dismiss their responsibilities to those who

put them in -- they should not dismiss their responsibilities to those who put them in. agree to disagree. the point is not to forget the responsibility. i want to talk about the president's address to the nation. did you realize what that indian person was doing on there? he was putting a curse on america -- on every house in america. i want you to know that, because i think you should know the truth. i do not think he should have gotten out there. i don't know of other people saw that was what was happening. host: if you want to watch that entire event ban, it is available on our website. a million -- millions of people are watching that, including the indian prayer.

"descent into darkness -- police report classmates detail the suspect." "no training could prepare the astronauts for this tragedy." mark kelly remains at his wife's bedside in the tucson, hospital, appointing a backup commander in the event that mark kelly is unavailable to fly the mission scheduled for april. "painful budget cuts coming?" we are seeing this headline across the country. illinois with a record tax increase. a record deficit in california, a sports -- upwards of $14 billion. the government debt reaches an all-time high of $14 trillion,

if you add the national debt up per person, that that is $43,500 per person. we will hear more about that as the president prepares for his state of the union address. live coverage is a week from tuesday iran sees been. our question -- should the parties sit together -- from tuesday here on c-span. our question -- should the parties sit together? good morning. you are on the air. go ahead. caller: i attended a memorial service. i saw many democrats and republicans and independents all there. there is nothing like sitting next to someone that may not be of your same party and communicating with them. they should sit together. they should talk together. i personally knew the sheriff, gabby. and, unfortunately, the judge

that was killed. i attended his funeral, also. there is nothing like americans sitting down together and geting rid o -- getting rid of their vitriol and discussing the issues among themselves. i have seen it here in arizona. i have seen it work. like both -- we strong democrat and strong republican. that is the way it works. host: was this a turning point for the country? caller: a very emotional turning point. i was not an obama supporter and i am truly an obama supporter today. i think he understands what needs to be done. he has people coming onboard that are business -oriented. i talked to a couple of his

aides at the function and i know it is coming. god bless him for it. host: thank you for your call. from our twitter page, "how many people say -- have to say it is "theater" for you change the topic?" symbols can be powerful. sitting together gives a strong image about unity to the world when the country seems so divided. the image of unity is the one people have in their mind and are desperately you looking for -- desperately looking for. caller: speaker boehner -- the speaker of the house should not be attending state dinners -- or should not be deemed to be a proper attendee, because he represents congress and it is a coequal branch.

he should not be sitting in the audience and applauded the president, unless it is an event where he has status coequal to the president. we caught joe wilson shouting "you lie." everyone forgets what he said that. he said it because the president was lying. if you look at the bill today, today, there are illegal aliens, even members of elite -- indian tribes, are going to be recipients of health care. did not change that. it is still in the bill. and i think, when you say, "let's all sit together during the state of the union," that is symbolic. across have to apologize first

for accusing republicans -- democrats have to apologize first for accusing republicans to be responsible for the shooting in arizona. that is just libel that you cannot let pass. host: "the victim of the tucson rampage was arrested at a tv taping." this was with christiane amanpour. the victim of a shooting spree that killed six and wounded 13, including ,giffords, -- including congresswoman giffords, was arrested saturday after he spoke threatened in. -- threateningly. he is a 63-year-old military veteran who supports ms. giffords. the topic of gun control came up

and one of the speakers made a comment about a bill introduced recently that would allow faculty members on college campuses carry guns. she spoke up to clarify the bill's language. ys, the founder of the tucson tea party, who was sitting behind her, rose to speak and suggested that the discussion about gun legislation be postponed until after the funerals. mr. fuller blurted out to mr. humphreys, -- humphries, "you're dead." he was escorted out of the forum. that will air on abc this morning. the issue legislation and the overall tone of the country sum --stiane amanpour took a py symbolic. we all know that. we have to do like we do with

our children-- raise them to do the right hing: -- right thing. the right thing is to work on our economy, not just a military. have gun, will travel. we need to address our debt. it is reaching critical mass and our congress is not addressing that. as far as a suggestion, i read about corporations going offshore with our jobs and our tax money and so wantnote-- so . this is an issue that congress

needs to address. it is time to let no -- know that we are going to be holding accountable. corporations that have gone on short and take our jobs with them -- we are going to play hardball if they do not cooperate with their economy anr money is called -- the yuan, or something. if this is a global economy, then they have to play their part. and their part is to not be so unfair with competition that is detrimental to us and to europe. this is what'urting everybody right now. they are holding the key. we have tohost: we will talk abs with richard solomon, who served

in the first bush administration. we will talk about u.s.-china relatiwe will talk about the pos around this visit between the u.s. and china. caller: michael connelly -- crowley would really add a lot to a show. quite well. host: thank you for the call. "what should he stay in the state of the union -- say in the state of the union?" address from a number of -- bought based -- advice from a number of people. should they sit together? caller: it would be a good

start. i wanted to comment on the lady who said the indian was making a curse to america. he was a native american and he gave a blessing to america, and he gave a blessing to his son who is serving his country in vitriol -- mental health goes a long way to victory all. -- vitriol. i do not know how everyone gets so much hatred. it is at yourself. the thank you -- thank you. host: thank you. 19 members of the house and senate are backing the splat --l try to do anything to make america forget that they got their clocks cleaned in november." carl says, "the dems want this

seating together so the world won't see this show which takes place when one side set and one side has the president speaking." that is the reason for this. joe from florida. good morning. caller: good morning, steve. host: where is that located? caller: in the center of the state, about 40 miles south of orlando. host: welcome to the program. caller: i don't want them to sit together. i want the world to see the difference between the parties. i think the democratic liberalism as per our country -- has hurt our country. therefore, i think there are

enemies of our country and enemies of the one, true god. thank you. rhetoric doesn't kill, but it can do harm. harm." good morning. caller: good morning. i would disagree. it would be a "twilight zone" congress for a day. president obama has bent over backwards when he took office. has been an argument -- there has been an argument on health care. there is nothing wrong with immigrants coming into this country, but having this argument about health insurance

-- it has -- each state has millions and millions of debts and liens have occurred to people that have insurance. the political cartoonist -- i heard him last year at the library of congress. one of the cartoons in his book -- is a man 85 going through a metal detector at the airport. "if we only wemental d -- we only had mental detectors." that is pretty clever. the ownership of guns -- but you

said guns and taxes -- if anybody ran for office anywhere, you would get half the votes. host: ok, coming up our sunday round table that will include karen finney and john feehery. john is before strategist -- is a former strategist. "the hate-filled rhetoric is from the press. they started this whole crazy notion that sarah palin's is to but -- blame." but one yet amendment changed the start of the year -- the 20th amendment change s the spes

in january or february. a week from tuesday will be the president's speech. john on the republican long. caller: good morning. calling in on our republican line, however, isomewhat our partisan on some issues. the reason i am a republican is because i studied accoun i with, you know, the crux of the issue. you know, the laws aren't beling -- being followed or there's politically-connected people who people, there is an accountability issue.

when things do not match up on your broadsheet and revenues and sheets -- balanche and revenues and expenses do not balance out, you raise concerns and cause people to question what is being done. you get unsatisfactory answers. host: ok. thanks for the call. "six issues that will compel lawmakers to make critical choices -- the budget and the debt ceiling. the national debt is $14 t rillion, about $43,500 per person. once.t from $13 trillion to can

i want to comment on the topic today and make a comment or recommendation. i am a 31-year watcher of c-span. tother. they should sitting someone -- close to someone youhihe chance to work it out for the common good -- the economy, the american people. if they do sit together, they do not have the chance to deny that they cannot work together. proximity breeds common ground. when you're sitting with someone with a different philosophy,

they can begin to find common ground. want watching miss rubin didn't to comment on callers who disagreed with her. i will make one specific point and get off. you had a caller who said that folks in the republican party were fascist in their ways of doing things. she said, that was over the line. when another caller said that president obama's and the democrats were socialists, then she made a comment. i always thought that c-span, which it is, still allows the gassed to comment, even if they disagree -- guest to comment, even if they disagree. she did not find anything to

comment on in those who disagreed with her. host: the great dane is young is you can come up with your own conclusion. our guest was jennifer rubin. just want to be clear. caller: thank you. glad to be on. i enjoy the program. host: thanks for the call. "cheap at the price" by about 's education program. in is sca this syndicated column --

a couple more phone calls. democrats and republicans side- by-side at the state think? caller: the question they'all ie -- that y'all are asking, do noti am from mississippi. the people in the states have not formed no kind of consensus to get together, black, white, mexican, whatever.

until the american another thin. that's all of these poorthe got going to run for president -- if anybody votes for him, that will be a slap in the face. host: you said you're arepublic. you just do not agree with him? caller: i do not agree with the things he has done to the poor people of mississippi. thanks for the call. paul krug "eurotrashed." is there any way to save them from seen together in these bill-conceived -- this ill-con ceived european union?

paul krugman. caller: i think they s leaders of the house and senate. we need to see this country make a law that any the president mun the -- every representative that has a lobbyist and it shows what the lobbyists have done. every congressman and representative as their lobbyist tacked on to the and of the bill showing where it represents them. does that make sense? host: thanks, max. "are these grown adults we elected? sit together, lunch together.

think they need a timeout chair?" we have our sunday roundtable with karen finney and john feehery. first, a look at some of the topics that will be making news. >> beginning at noon, you can hear replays of the five network tv talk shows including america and the aftermath of the shooting in arizona, the agenda for the 112th congress, and the top selections. "meet the press" begins at noon. the host welcomed the chairman of the democratic policy committee, and chuck schumer. tom coburn. president of the national action network, rev. of sharpton. "this week" -- christiane

amanpour incurs a discussion who witnessed the shootings in tucson, including family members of victims. fox news sunday." -- "fox news sunday" -- a discussion with former minnesota gov. tim pawlenty. nn's "state of the union" discusses mental health in the united states with republican tim murphy, democrat grace napolitano, and a former director of psychology at the hospital. "face the nation" -- the host talks with the democratic governor ed rendell, rudy guiliani, a former mayor of new york, and members of congress about america in the aftermath of the arizona shootings. are brought to you as a public service by the networks and c- span.

those were years begin at noon with "meet the press," when the clock -- 1:00 -- at 4:00, "face the nation." listen on xm satellite radio channel 132. we are iphone app. we are online. >> each year, the the congressional black caucus, a as part of our continuing discussion on the civil wars to the first state to secede. see the complete we can then schedules online -- weekend s chedule online. "washington journal" continues.

host: our sunday round table with john feehery and karen finney. good morning. thanks for being with us. guest: good morning. host: let's move ahead to the -- from now. the debt ceiling vote is comi. will talk about how we need totg to hit. that, but i think it is an opportunity for the president to lay out his vision of the next six months to one year. we're entering reelect. you have about six months before you start to get into campaign mode. it is an opportunity, using the framework of the speech in tucson, to talk about how we can, we as in democrats and

republicans, work for different common ground -- work to find common ground. host: many of us feel that the debate was hijacked by fox news with the so-called and the unending string of republican misinformation. i will be the first to say i thought the democrats could have done a better job correcting public misconceptions about health reform that linger to this day. guest: it is a myth to say people did not like the health care bill becausethey thought ie their premiums. if your small business owner, you think it will hurt job creation. they did not like the individual mandate. there were so many things that were bad about this health care bill. this is not a myth perpetrated

by the republicans and conservatives at fox news. it was a very bad bill. i think that is wll vote and to repeal -- vote to repeal it. guest: they spend hundreds of millions of dollars. our recent poll shows that the majority of americans do not believe there would have a choice to keep their current health insurance if they want to. people will be able to keep their current health insurance if that is what they choose to do. the volume of misinformation out there -- if we had a conversation on the merits of the issue, that would have been different. republicans did not come forward with their own plan. they did a disservice to the on jobs will be minimal. it could help current jobs because this is a growing sector of our economy.

host: one of the key players is mitch mcconnell. this piece calls him a "master manipulator." he uses tactics that are head- on, some describe him as having "the natural charisma of an oyster." guest: he is one of the most gifted strategists i have ever seen. he is always smiling. he knows how to work strategy. knows how to make the news he wants to make without making news he does not want to make.

next message. "it did n set a precedent. bill crystal said the words "it did not" were not in the prepared text. they were apparently added on delivery by president obama. .

i do think that for better compromise to get done, this debate has to be conducted with

civility and i think that's one of the things that the president was saying in his speech, that this civility, lack of civility didn't cause this necessarily. it didn't cause it at all. but let's take this as an excuse to act more civilly towards one another. >> more from the president last wednesday evening in tucson, arizona. >> let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame. let's use this occasion to expand a listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our and remind ourselves of all the ways that our hopse and dreams are bound toget >> we've been talking about what happened in tuscon over the last eight days.

but where does the political dialogue and debate go from here? >> it goes to the debate we've started on health care and the differences of opinion on whether this is a goher it's a . and then really it goes to some serious substantive discussions about how do we extend the debt ceiling, how do we cut ding, how do we fund our troops in afghanistan and iraq. how do we make the critical decisions that are going to get this economy moving again. how do we deal with the different state gots that are going bankrupt? all of these things are huge decisions and require sophisticated arguments and sophisticated solutions.s is no easy. none of these decisions are going to be easy and i think that you're going to have passionate debate on both sides. hopefully, it will be civil and passionate. >> i hope it's civil and

passionate but also pragmaticn facts. and when we talk a cuts, we had a discuss last year about additional funds for the states. mr. boehner referred to special interest gs able to help. so when we talk about some of these budget cuts we have to th. we may still decideght t to mak acknowledge, let's not try to sort of hide the, do a shell game here and try to suggest that when we make a cut over here it doesn't have an impact over there. that would be the kind of straightforward discussion we can have. no doubt we're going to have to make cuts. the other thing i hope we have in terms of a civil debate, it's disturbing to me so far when we talk about the discussion over the debt ceiling, it's who is going to get what, i'm going to get this from you rather than you're going to get that from me rather than the right decisions for the country.

rather than if we give up this you'd better give up that. come on. >> i think what republicans are saying is we need a real plan to be fiscally responsible. anddom gogry really comes from the democratic side of the stuff. if you talk about the fact that these states and local governments are drowning in pension cos, montgomery county for example, 60% of their budget is paid for pensions and that is all because of labor unions. and these are government employee labor unions. and yes, i think that the teachers and police officers play an extraordinarily important role. but those who are retired at age 55 and getting pensions for the rest of their leconomy. but when you have these state and federal budgets going bankrupt, we have to make some real changes. and the -- i saw what happened with michelle rhee and the district of columbia and the teachers unions going after her. these are adult discussion that is have to take place.

and the deem gogry is extraordinary. >> good morning. caller: the problems we're having in the united states, the reason we're divided so much is because we lie. we lie. >> host: who is lying? caller: everybody lies. republicans lie, democrats lie. everybody is lying. and i've been watching you for years. see, i'm from kentucky. i know mitch mcconnell, see. i've been watching him for about 30 years. to get his agenda passed. anything. now, i'm from kentucky. been there all my life. i'm over 50. o what we have to do is quit

lying and telling the truth. there isn't such thing as obama care. it's health care for american people. when mr. obama was disrespected at the last time of the union when the man said he was lying, he isn't lying. he isn't giving health care to no gaining steam. to that point and to his caller: h guest: well, let me addressirst. i've been to several states of the union and over the last 20 years, it's kind of devolved into a competition about who can stand up or sit do you know the first and really taken away from the discussion of the president's members interspersed is kind of i think will cut do you know on this cheer leading competition that happens. i think that -- i don't t 30-second commercials theyse i think they distort on both sides and i think that's the

nature of the political campaigns. and i agree with the caller that we need to truthfully face the problems that are hitting this country, especially when it comes to spending because we scompli cannot afford to spend the way we have without revenue and no one wants to raise taxes and the government is too big and spends tooch. so i think that's the kind of discussion. and facing the truth is guest: as long as we have that discussion with an honest and open way and acknowledge that some of the cuts that we're going to make will have a real impact on real lives. just going back to what john was saying about state and local governments. i agree. my mother used to be a labor negotiator and many local governments are just crushed under their obligations for pensions. at the same time, i feel like what we always seem to forget when we're having that conversation is that many of those deals were put together so that in lieu of cost of living increases or other types, that others in the

private sector were getting, public sector employees, this was kind of the trade-off. so if we're now going to say pensions are the problem, let's also remember that people did give something up to get to that point. and again, if we're going to make cuts, it's going to have an impact. and one of the opportunities that president obama has, part of why he was so effective as a campaigner, is we don't have to buy into this either/or rhetoric of it's the end of the world, it's the best thing since sliced bread. wait, how do we fwigyur out the right decision for now. >> let me put a couple numbers on the table. the number of residential home foreclosures. in 2008 it was 1.12 million. only one state had a budget ga in 10 to 1048 states.

and finally the budget deficit in 2007 was $101 billion year >> well, it's extraordinary. we are in one sense all to blame for the housing bubble that occurred. and it's the government had a role. thk consumers had a role. and we are just dealing with that bubble. i mean, this is what's happened to us post collapse of the bubble is very typical of what happened back with the tuleyip bubble back in the 16th century. this isha hurt. state governments get hurt. the federal government gets hurt. and we have to climb our way out of it. and we're not out of it yet. that's why the foreclosures are still fairly high. too many people are filing foreclosures. guest: i think john is right too. on some level we all know we have to make cuts as long as it

doesn't impact me. so as long as it's not my kids' school or my neighborhood. again, we're at a place where we have to have a very honest frank discussion about the kinds of cuts that need to be made and what those impacts are going to be. host: our next call,erson, if you could say that. i'm 20 years old and i am a student of arizona state university. i am also a recent transplant . and just the state of politics these days seems to be very concerning to both me and my demographic. i've been here for a few months, and last saturday i was at work when the shootings happened, and it was extremely disturbing to everyone. everyone was so worried. there were natives from the reservation, they were worried

about how it would reflect upon them. scared that it was the mexican mafia that might be behind it and might inspire, if you want to say, a race war. and when it turned out to be a mentally disturbed young man it was almost a relief because arizona is a tinder box right now and it is a very disturbing place to be.soutor kentucky but it has no comparison to the state of politics here r is right. we can say that obviously the young man last week who was engaged in the sheeting clearly had long-term mental illness that seems like for a variety of reasons was not caught at points where it should have been and could have been. that being said, i think many of us were very concerned that some of the rhetoric that we heard in arizona particularly

around some immigration and some of the other. and i think that's one of the things we have to be accountable for. if we take an issue and demagogue it and turn it into immigration reform is one we tend to do it the most where we deemize or scape gothe one group of people and play on people's fears that's the kind of climate we have. i thought it was interesting to note that daniel hernandez is a naturalized citizen. i would say i'm glad he is in the united states of america, i'm glad he is a naturalized citizen. but i would say there are wonderful people trying to become united states citizens. so let's have a real conversation on that issue. host: we'll go to jim next, louisiana, with john and karen. good morning. caller: good morning. t this civility stuff.

it seems like all of a sudden it's everybody should be hand in hand and if these republicans fall for this thing that's the democrats want to sift together, the only reason they want to sit together is because they don't have as many representatives as the republicans. now, they didn't want this when they were in the majority because they had more people. guest: well, this morning jim called it a kumbaya moment and has put together some discussions. attorney general eric holder would be joined by darrell issa who has called obama one of the most corrupt administrations. also sonya society my or and elena kagen would sit between jeff sessions and t things lively, michelle backman

who wants people armed and dangerous to fight the energy bill should sit with senator john kerry an energy bill author and mitch mcconnell would probably want to be near al franken who made funny faces during a debate. guest: where you sit does not change or should it where you stand on the issues. i think republicans are commited to their agenda which is mostly going to be getting us to be fiscally responsible again and create jobs in the private sector. and i think that the caller -- both callers make an important point. we have been as a country under great economic stress. this hpeople in a lot of different ways in many parts of suburbia you see foreclosed homes all over the place. e of the american dream and now people, it has become a nightmare.

so we shouldn't under estimate how impassioned people feel when their livelihoods have been snuffed out. and i think we do face, especially the 20-year-old who just called, they face even more stark choices in the future. the debt we are putting on these kids, and also the how hard we make it for them to get into college and how expensive college is. all of these things add up. and the reason we need to have civil debate from washington is because washington needs to be a leader in providing civil debate in the rest of the country. but that doesn't mask the effect that people in the rest of the country are hurting and need some direction. guest: if i could add to that by saying we ought to have civil debate, personally i don't think we should go to some kind of knee jerk reaction

the other direction a pc movement. i think it's important that weaf vigorous discussion and debate. we can disagree. john and i do it all the time. but there's a way that we can have that conversation and disagree that's constructive and that flushes out the issues rather than name calling or making it pirnl. that's where when we goes over the edge. where we talk about -- and again scape goating groups of people. that's where it goes over the edge. but certainly that's not to say both sides should not vigorously defend and present their sides of the argument. host: one of our viewers say this point. guest: that's a danger that comes in when washington gets d views of the people back home. it becomes a party insider party versus the outsiders

which is the rest of the country. and the whole issue with the banking industry, really the tarp wasredent obama. it was essential to making sure industry would stay open without a banking industry functioning you really do have complete anarchy in the country. that being said it was extraordinarily unpopular for democrats and republicans who voted for this thing. and that's that view irmakes an important point, which is both parties have to reflect the values of their constituents and not just cut deals without understanding where their voters are coming from. host: roger, independent line. caller: first, i'd like to say that there was a strong point where they say that it's a person's actions. republicans and democrats

sitting side by side at the state of the unian address means nothing because for them to sit next to each other thinks exactly the same. i don't like the way you think, i don't like the way you think. i don't like you and you don't like me. me shaking hands for five minutes, smiling next to you two hours and acting lior one day isn't anything except what the american people have come to realize, that come to think of as politicians just lie. we look at obama and i'm an african american man. so i'm giving him cudos as far as being the first african american president. but when he was standing up there talking about this is too big to fail, this is too big to fail, he was at the same time saying that you're too small to

matter. you're too small to matter. because i'm willing to give these people this money so we can stop systemic breakdown that the country and blah blah when the actual matter is that the economy is based on the small businessman, not the big corporate banking system. you know? so when you got starving to begin with and allow people who are starving to change the score, then all theeah we're in it together now because this crucial thing happened in the country. host: i'm going to stop you there. you've put a lot of things on the table. guest: i think what roger is expressing the views of a lot of people who are probably looking at this idea of ok they're going to sit together but what does that really mean. and again, i think it's meant to be a gesture. again, it does not mean that

there are not very strong disagreements. but if we can keep those focused on the issues and not make them personal, i think that's important. and i think that's what people are trying to do. after 9/11 we had about a good three to four months of real compassion for one another in a way that we hadn't seen in a long time and then it began to dissipate. and i would hope this could be a moment that we check ourselves and begin to bring it back. and the point john made. it's not just the economic trauma that americans have been suffering under but you can't underestimate the psychological impact of war. we have been at war for a very long time. and i think the combination of all those things i have to believe it's been draining on the american people for a very long time. host: there's an e-mail from one of our viewers.

guest: probably in the period between 1995 and 2000 when they were doing real conflict with president clinton and they really offered budgets that cut spending to the bone. and i think what happened is you had a surplus. and what happens when you get a surplus is people spend more money. and the other thing that happened, and karen makes an important point about the impact of the war. we tend to forget about, unfortunately, about the real sacrifice of a fairly small percentage of our country and the daily sacrifice of the families an the troops that go and are fighting the wars for us. there needs to be a sense oofer shared sacrifice about that war and i think we are under the daily stress of the terrorists and that is that we worries abo

caller earlier said the shooting in arizona. we weren't sure if that was a terrorist t.ncivility on occasion. host: let me turn to politics. in the national review. mntain don't think his ry election is in jepty. i think he is doing what's one thing i will say about polling. i saw this with bush and i

think we see this with obama. when your favorability ratings are high and people like you, sort of honest and trust worthyness, to me, tend to be the most important numbers because if people like you they're more willing to say well even if i disagree with yance and see what you can do. i do think that people appreciate the fact that obama may not have always used all of the tools of the presidency in terms of the theet ricks but i think is trying to do the right thing. guest: you have to give the president, he's a favorite right now in the next reelection. republicans have to come up with a candidate that can be plausible and credible. and they have a lot out there but they have to go through that process. host: we hear mitt romney is likely to announce in april, rick santorum was in new

hampshire last weekend and tim paultenty is out with a new book. enty are the top two most credible candidates. karen's point, the president is in one sense very lucky that he has republicans in congress because not only are they a foil but they also drag the president closer to the middle and have more responsible policies. we saw this with bill clinton. he was on the ropes in 93 and 94, and then the republicans took over the congress and the country improved economically because of it. so we'll see what happens. i do think that for the president, the most troubling thing for him is the unemployment rate is still persistently high. and while his ratings are high, th, 's got to be worried about that because unemployment and under

economy. host: jim saying mitt mandate romney question mark not a chance. and that sentiment is strong. guest: no question. the reason i say romney is one of the favorites is because he came in second place last time. but the health care debate is something that he has got to deal with because people are saying that the obama care is just a bigger version of romney care and that's not good for mitt romney. guest: it's been interesting to watch mitt romney trying to walk away from what he did in massachusetts because there are many similarities between what romney did in massachusetts and the affordable health care act. so i think that will sbernl a presidential issue. i do feel i ought to come back around on something that john said. president clinton and the republicans in congress worked together but i would not say that it was the republicans who

responsibility. guest: i would. guest: i know you would. but i think you've got to give president clinton some credit. again it was a democratic president who left the country with a surbluss and a republican president who spent that money. and one of the things i personally find very disconcerting with the way that john boehner is approaching the budget is he's bragging about going from paying to cut go. now the way he's redone them, you don't have to account for lost revenue for things that get cut. so in terms of repealing the affordable health care act, if you believe, as many do including the cbo that's going to reduce thet even have to acc the budget account for where are we going to make up the rest of that money. that's not exactly responsible

budgeting. host: our guests karen and john. back to your democrat's line. good morning. caller: yes. when you were pushing the tax cuts, you were saying that it was to create jobs. but yet, you had them forp ten years and two years prior to that. how many jobs did you create with tax cuts for t wealthy?

host: the bush era tax cuts. did they create jobs or only add to the deficit? guest: unemployment during the bush years was about 5.3%. so it was actually, they did create jobs. they created jobs in very difficult circumstances after 9/11 we had a tremendous shock to the economy, unemployment that didn't nt go up to 10%.une constant. the fact of the matter is that if you give more money to job creators, more jobs will be create less jobs. creators, they're going to the bush tax uth, an economic cuts, successful, which is why democrats cut them off. democrats were in control of the congress and they didn't repeal the bush tax cuts like they said they were going to do, the president didn't repeal

the tax cuts. they've actually kept them going. so yes, guest: come on, john. again, in order to -- guest: because they're worried that job increases -- >> guest: it wasn't just that president obama said let's continue the bush tax cuts. ous discussion about if we do this en things, including as you mentioned earlier, let's make college very affordable. college is very important. making sure that we have a workforce that is prepared for 21st century jobs, something that president obama has talked about again and again. so making those investments now i think he is right to talk about. let's also remember that when president obama came into office we were losing, what, 700,000 jobs a month or something crazy like this and now we're actually, granted,

not to the degree that we need to, we are creating job wanted with you. it was a russian reporter asking about the president's speech in tuscon and the shooting that took place. >> this is america. the democracy is the freedom of speech, the freedom of assembly. and many people outside would also say, and the quote/unquote freedom to react in a violent way is also america. how do you respondt? part? >> the quote/unquote freedom of the deranged mind to react violently to them, it is also american. >> i would disagree vehemently with that. there's nothing in the values of our country, there's nothing on the many laws on our books that would provide for somebody

to impune and impede on the very freedoms that you begin with by exercising the actions that that individual took on that day. that is not american. host: the question, do americans have too many freedoms? guest: coming from a russian talking about a violent society, russia is a mob oksy. if you're a journalist, you're lucky to be alive. if you make money and criticize the ghouling a. americans have a lot of freedoms. russia, you're lucky if you speak out if you're going to li the next day. guest: b host: karen. guest: you know, it's a tough question because, it's interesting that the shooting happened the week after we had the reading of the

constitution, which i think is an opportunity to go back and reflect on the rights and privileges that we have in america, which i am very grateful for, i know we all are. and our democracy, we are constantly trying to make it better. and i believe that with our second amendment rights there have got to be w protect that right but then ensure that people like mr. love anywhere don't get any weapons in their hands. and i think that's a part of making our democracy a more perfect union. host: she calls herself the jazz chick. guest: o you know, can't say. it's an incredible hon tor have been mentioned to be on the short list. it's one of the most incredible jobs in the world. and we'll just have to see what happens. host: if asked. guest: would i serve?

host: my question is, what would you bring to the job? and in today's 24/7 sbrit driven news cycle how would you approach the position? guest: i guess i would try to approach it with a sense of humor, because again it's a very tough job and i think youk you've got to do the best you can to be as forth right and forth coming with answers as you can be. i've always felt like as a press secretary or communications director there's really sort of a dance between reporters and what we do. reporters are trying to get a story, we're trying to either help you with your story and sometimes get our own story out in how you negotiate that. sometimes it all comes together beautifully and sometimes not. but i think if you approach it that way it becomes less personal. and you're better able to sort of understand what people are trying to write and what you are also trying to get out there. host: in the intert

disclosure with mike as white house press secretary we supported the idea of having cameras televise the briefings in their entirety. it began with george as the clinton press secretary. marlin would have the first five to ten minutes on camera and then off camera. is it helpful or hurtful to have cameras in the white h briefing room cover the entire briefing? guest: it's a very interesting question. and i think that the media reporters, television reporters want that. they feel it's unfair to them if you give the bulk of the actual facts off the record. you know, i hope karen gets the job. i think you would be terrific at it. guest: thanks. guest: it's a high honor to work for a president in that kind of position. you know, you really do want to work the room before you're in

front of the cameras to find out what's going to happen and u also want to be i think in that job as truthful as possible. you are truthful. and i think you are a sales man or sales person for the president in that job and that's the most important thing. but you also have to be a salesperson for the press inside the administration. and that puts you in a difficult spot. it's kind of, when i was press zobet the speaker, it's the same type of thing although at a much higher level. you know, i think that the reason why you want to have it only for the first five minutes is that you want that to be your message, but it's awfully unfair to part of the journalism field that is trying to make news. and i think that the best way to handle it in my view is to make sure that you have gotten all the facts on background before you go before the camera

and then let the briefing commence as it does. guest: i also think that given we flive a 24 hour news cycle which we have cable which has need for zpwr video you have to have some sensitivity, whether or not is it about how much you do briefings on camera versus how much you just make sure people are getting the information or the access that they need. one thing that john said that i want to pick up on though i feel like in these positions that we have, the most important thing we have is our credibility. so i think we always want to make sure that you are where you can feel good at the end of the day that you are credible, did the best you can kind of person. host: michael curry said in the past, press secretaries need to tell the truth slowly. guest: sometimes when you get in the back and forth, i've had that advice given before, you

can slow do you know. because there's a tendency to want to rapid fire give the answers back. it's true. sometimes you want to think it through not because you're not being truthful but because you want to be thoughtful how you say certain things. sometimes out of civility and sometimes out of a need to ensure that you're kind of giving the full picture. host: he was in a the difficult spot there because that was in conjunction with the monica lewinsky thing and i think there's a temperature thing to all of this. but as karen said, you're -- the president can only use you if you're credible. once you lose your credibility they might as well fire you right away. host: two anniversary this week and this is from susan eisenhower who is the grand daughter of dwight d. eisenhower. it was 50 years ago that he gave his fair well address. but as she pointed out in h.r. piece this morning, it may be

remembered for those lines but also we cannot mortgage the material assets of our grand chinch without risking the loss ohis, about how great a president eisenhower was. he did a couple things that everyone knows about, but he also left a huge, a surplus for president kennedy and he in this speech he really talked about being responsible, and responsible governance. and i think if we think of anything over the last 50 years it is that we've kind of lost that heritage of real responsible governance. and that means making very difficult tough choices. and i think that he will go do you know as one of our nation's greatest presidents. host: first,stein joining us. republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. it's ridiculous how long you all have made me wait here. it's been 20 minutes.

i don't have anything to say to the rhino with the gastly green sitting next to you. she is the defender of t this month my wife got a new bill. her humana bill for insurance jumped to 1700 a month because she's had two heart attacks and a stroke. we can't afford that. we said no to this stuff. but it'sse we don't appreciate the tone of your call. i am disappointed you got through. the other anniversary i want to share with you is the 50thce in about the inaugural ceremony. but there's also a moment they highlight. at night, looking out over the mall convinced that he would be

back. guest: we have heard that before. guest: someone wrote about how kennedy's folks actually broke into nixon's papers and that's what inir water gate burglary. history is a fast nating thing. and the images of these huge characters like john kennedy and dithe eisenhower and richard nixon. everyone should read up on those because they all made interesting choices and they all confronted conflicts. guest: we should mention there's obviously tomorrow we celebrate the birth of dr. martin ludeser king, another great figure in american history. and it's interesting that as we talk about nixon i'm going to have to put an aside here.

but certainly these were great men with big vision. and i think we need that right now. and i think that's part of why people were drawn to president obama. and i hope it's part of why working with the republican congress we can actually accomplish some good responsible things. because if you go back to the message of eisenhower, he was actually taking on everybody a little bit and saying we're all accountable an we're all responsible. and we've all got to share the pain. and i hope that is the tone and tenor of the discussion going forward. with keeping in mind the goals of president kennedy and obviously dr. king. host: the previous caller did not get the memo apparently. but there was a piece in the "washington post," the memorial that will soon be dedicated. guest: it's a great troibt a great man and it's an honor

that we celebrate. and a lot of people tomorrow will be participating ith and again, i think if you look at each of these men an their vision and what delave tributed to our society and our history, it's part of the american story of trying to do better to respond to what he called the fox news issues which about the failure of democrats shaped the health care debate. fox news coming up last night on nbc's saturday night live. >> an welcome to a fox news speciaarack obama's speech on thursday as well as an overwhelming public outcry for a level of discourse, we at fox have made a decision to put

aside heated rhetoric when discussing viewpoints whether they be left or right. or even center. join me on the panel thai, the host of the shawn hannity show. shawn hannity. >> hello. >> wonderful to b greta. >> also joining me, host of the glenn beck show, glenn beck. >> i do not like those. i do not like those. >> you promised you'd try, glenn. >> fine. it's so wonderful to be here. >> i'll take it. >> from nbc's saturday night live. >> that is the best, saturday night live version. althghu is having done fox as w will as msnbc and seen bigger hair, bigger makeup generally for women than i saw there on

saturday night live. they believe in the entertainment value of news. host: john. guest: i'm a big fan of fox. i watch it all the time and i think they are, they have a lot of viewers that have my sane opinion. host: the feary they arey could be foun. host: appreciate your time. we're going to take a short break. when we come back, we'll turn our attention to the economy and also to u.s.-china relations. richard solomon is going to be with us to talk about this week's state visit, what it means for the united states, the deficit that we have and issues moving forward as "washington journal" continues on this sunday morning.

host: we want to welcome richard solomon. he is the president of the u.s. institute of peace. good morning. thanks for being with us. let's turn our attention to china. the president of china in town this week for president obama's third state visit. but the backdrop of this is the trade issues we have and human rights issues which the united states has taken aim at. first with trade. will this result in any changes? >> i think it will raise issues. the exchange rate, concern about intellectual property, china's inflation fears, et cetera. there are a whole range of very specific issues. but the significantance of this

visit as secretary of state clinton pointed out, if we get some shared views of where the world is headed it can affect in a positive way the trajectory of this relationship for some time to come. and this comes at a critical moment because china is growing assertiveness holds the risk of repolarizing east asia, that the japanese, the south koreans, the mallations, others are quite concerned about china's pressing on offshore oil suzz, they're concerned about their unwillingness to get control of the north korean proliferation problem. so yes economic issues will be very clearly on the agenda. as will other issues. human rights is something that the president intends to raise. but the broer set of issues and the question of where the president can make a real contribution is trying to

gather a common perspective with the chinese on where this is headed. host: let me read what andrew higgins writes in hong kong. can you explain? guest: he has a real problem. he's approaching the end of his tenure and he wants a positive relationship. he can't have a punchup with the president of the united states. that would affect him politically back home. and of course china's standing in the world. at the same time he's under

real pressure internally. we saw this during secretary of defense's recent visit that the chinese military -- and it's not at all clear that the chinese military is under control of civilian authority. they're pressing for a much more assertive policy. they stuck the nose of our defense secretary into this new fighter aircraft and there have been other events over the past decade where the chinese military has seemed to be in a position to literally embarrass the political leadership. so he is cross-pressured in that sense. and he comes at a time when there's evidence that the chinese internally are debating to stick to the keeping a low posture, not getting too assertive for fear of scaring the bejesus out of their neighbors, or to be more

assertive. and he ds going to have to walk a deck cat balance between a positive visit and responding to these internal pressures. host: i want to come back to the comments of secretary clinton in a moment about the larger issues. but let me begin with the commerce secretary. he delivered a speech to discuss the trade deficit countries and the impact it's having on the united states. >> it's important to note that since china formally joined the w.t.o. nine years ago it has made important progress opening its markets. tariffs have come do you knghts evolving. and great strides have been made to free the flow of commerce across china's borders. on balance, the competitive playing field in china is fair to foreign firms. and we commend the chinese for that progress over the last ten years. and it's also not lost on countries in the west that on

our march toward industrialization we sometimes protect the native industries with policies that today would mobilize an army of w.t.o. lawyers in opposition. those policies were followly then and they are surely folly now. host: your response. guest: we have a real problem with the chinese in terms of dealing with our respective jobs issues and protecting our intellectual property, having fair access to their markets. and this undoubtedly will be a major issue for the president to raise with their president. but the chinese are trapped in a situation where they mobilize their population with three decades of really fantastic economic growth, about 10% a year, and they can't get off that tiger. they're very worried about political instability. that is probably the core of

their economic policy. the effort to prevent political on compromises that would lower their growth rate for them that's the basis ofpotical orde great strain on this relationship. host: from the "wall street journal" last wednesday. china, now the world's second largest economy. guest: that's an example of where the chinese are pressing to establish a much more visible role for themselves. they've talked about creating a currency that would supplant the u.s. dollar. i don't think they're going to find a lot of support certainly in the short run for that. but this puts t us to get our economic situation under control. host: from michael green,

adviser, he has this quote that we found this morning in the washington examiner that the white house and the president goes into this summit thinging both sides eager to add a little more stability to the relationship. we go beyond that word. what would it mean? guest: stability would mean coming to some consensus and some adjustment in these economic issues which probably are are the the highest profile set of issues given the jobs concern on both sides. but nuclear proliferation is an absolutely critical issue. and we're not sure that the chinese have placed it as high they may not see it as a core security issue in the way that we do. and so some indication probably it will be more private than public that they are prepared to work with us, whether it's north korea, iran,pastan on the issue.

i would say, would be critical. host: while this is happening, the recipient of the noble peace prize last month remains in a chinese jail. will that come up as a human rights issue? guest: i would be very surprised if the president did not raise that issue. he met in a very public way. so we know in terms of american foreign policy the support of our public for this relationship of human rights is an important issue. for the chinese, it is a very relationship is that the chinese are coming to us with a kind of 19th century agenda even though we're entering the 21st century. they're trying to get control over their territory, just to these economic developments, and even their political stability internally. they're very upset when our president meets with the dalai politically very destabilizing. so that is again the core issue

and the human rights problem will be a matter of some contention, not a matter of consensus in this dialogue. host: our guest, richard solomon, the president of the u.s. institute of peace. done joining us from texas. good morning. caller: yes, sir. to start off with, as far as trade goes, in between us and any other country, it might be better if we didn't let corporate lobbyists take the lead on it because they're getting a pretty good d and this all started with these right to work states. host: thank you. we'll get a response. guest: our strength are economic innovativeness. and yes we're dealing with a going overseas. that doesn't have all negative benefits for us. but our strength and the challenge to our economy is to develop new technologies and

new production arrangements that will keep jobs at home and that's a longer term challenge. we're not going to change overnight the comparative advantages of exporting production to foreign economies. what we've got to do is develop the real strength of our economy, which are our ability to develop new technologies. host: from the "new york times," china's winning schools. he points from beijing in his column.

guest: chinese culture has always put a lot of emphasis on education. and this is where this country expresses its tremendous dinism. it's something that should worry us and provide an impetus to improving our educational system. i was in graduate school and it gave us a kick in the pants to make improvement in scientific education at that time. and what he points out is that terms of global competitiveness to get our educational system operating at a higher level.

. . guest: we are in a different security environment today.

a combination of terrorism, the turmoil in the world of islam, nuclear proliferation -- this is an area where our president and who gentile have an opportunity to develop a perspective. we have been helpful to china to the degree in which we are trying to deal with the terrorism problem. al-qaeda was training chinese from the weger region who were trying to destabilize their own country. our efforts benefit china significantly, trying to stabilize that den our security problem which we share with them. it is an area where we need to cooperate as with nuclear proliferation host. host: dr. solomon earned his degree at mit. we go to portland, ore., our

line for republicans, good morning. good morning caller: . i want to put the issue out there that high-speed rail would bring this country together. with our scholastic system, we could improve on it to the point that it would be in and this product of china and china would be wanting to engage with us with high-speed rail. it would bring this country together for crossing the country left and right and it would allow people do not understand not to understand that -- i am not making myself clear. guest: chad is a very interesting point. the chinese are developing a high-speed rail.

they are under enormous pressure to get this system working. over a decade chinese ambassador saying that because they had made a big investment in an automobile industry, they would trapped themselves in real dilemmas. they would need to import petroleum, at security, they would stress their infrastructure. they did not have the roads tuesday -- to cope with cars. today you go into beijing, it is a parking lot. as in every country, when you would get economic development, people want mobility. there have been buying cars but they don't have the infrastructure to deal with it. host: didn't they stop the sale of cars for a period of time? guest: they are trying to control it. they are trying to go to public transportation, high-speed rail development. they are also trying to develop

these technologies for export. as the caller suggests, this is a way of developing public transport that can be helpful economically, socially, and the chinese are out on front on this. host: one of our regular viewers says can you give a brief history of the china-to that relationship? guest: like the taiwan issue, tibet has been at the margins of the core of chinese culture. it is an area of their country that they don't feel they have full control over. tibetan culture is quite different than han chinese culture. the chinese are trying to figure out how to deal with a restive population there where they have used military force as they did t control over it. that is why the dali lama is seen as a real threat to them.

the chinese approach has been too economically developed a region in hopes that will hold the loyalty of the tibetans. it is a much more complicated issue because their religious question gets of the core of tibetan identity. this has to do with all the minorities, they are having real trouble how to deal with these national minorities. they are a small percentage of the population but they occupy critical border regions. the chinese will be very rigid on how they deal with issues related to tibet in particular host: next is leslie, from brentwood, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. i am an independent and i have a perspective that still has not been satisfied as far as the bay

goes, i don't feel like there would be anarchy if we had not bailed out the bags. that is my perspective. my question to you is -- i was watching one program on fox of the other day and someone mentioned china and bailing out the united states. i thought about that and how can one state bailout and other state since the states don't own money? i want to get your perspective on the idea that one state can bailout another state. thank you. guest: by think the key perspective is that the united states and china have an interdependence and economically. they depend on access to our markets. what they have been doing is buying up a substantial portion of our national debt. in that sense, they have

sustained our economic growth and made it possible for us to maintain a level of consumption that they need because we are consuming all these chinese goods. people here are wary about the fact that the chinese do have so much of our national debt. they cannot just try to get rid of it all and go off in another direction because they do need a stable market here for their own economic growth. as i mentioned earlier, if they can't keep their economy growing, it has a very politically destabilizing effect in their own country. this economic interdependence is something that our officials, the president, has to work with the chinese to see that there is greater access on our part to their markets and greater openness on the playing field. host: let me go back to nicholas

case.of's he points out that in chinese schools, teachers are much respected and the most admired kid is most often the brain rather than the job for the class clown. americans think of the chinese strategic challenge in terms of but the challenge is the rise of the chinese education system. guest: that is something that we do have to worry about. that article is very important because it emphasizes a critical point. the chinese respect the innovativeness, the intellectual flexibility and creativity that is part of carry educationalc systemcarryristoff points out that at a higher level of education, the chinese want to come here. they have over a quarter of a million students here in this country because at the

undergraduate and graduate school levels, our educational system produces people who are entrepreneurial, innovative, and that is something the chinese have not worked out in their own system. their culture is still very authoritarian. it is not all a negative story. we should certainly be well aware that they are determined to try to improve the quality of their intellectual capital through their educational system. host: part of the conversation is on line on our twitter page. wal-mart is a front for the chinese government, is the comment. that is based on the amount of imports we get from china. guest: there is no question that wal-mart and other outlets rely on relatively inexpensive

chinese manufacturers for their marketing. a lot of that will not go away. that is ourtelevels won't suppof productivity and low-end products. our strengths are innovation at higher levels of technology. this gets to the educational system. we have to maintain our innovativeness, our development of new products and capitalize on that through our exports. that is our comparative strength. host: the greatest difference in u.s. schools and the rest of the world is the number of days attending class is great in the u.s., 188 days, the rest of the world, 220, a huge difference. peter joins us from lakeland, fla., democrats line. caller: good morning. i am always interested in this conversation. i hope you can bear with me with

three quick points. mr. solomon, with all due respect, china has figured out how the government works. they have goldman sachs, j.p. morgan, and the chamber of commerce. they don't care about human rights. they care about the bottom line. you have said two or three times now that we need to rely on new technology. we have the iphone, the flat screen tv -- solar technology. they have been developed in the u.s. and they get outsourced to china. guest: that is absolutely the case. this is where our president i'm sure will press the chinese for adjustments in the way they deal with our intellectual property. secretary of state addressing the larger issues between the u.s. and china. her speech this past friday at the state department. >> i would be the first to admit

that this trust lingers on -- that mistrust lingers on both the international community has watched the chinese evers to modernize and expand its military. we have some clarity adds to its intentions. as secretary gates stress in beijing this week, both sides would benefit from sustained and substantive military to military engagement that increases transparency. we need more high-level visits. , more exchanges from our professional organizations and other steps to build that trust and understanding of intentions unfamiliarity. this will require china to overcome its reluctance at times to join us in building a stable and transparent military to military relationship. we think it is so much in both of our interests and we will continue to raise it and work on it with our chinese friends. host: as a preview to the

speech is defense secretary gates. he was meeting with his counterpart at the great wall -- at the great hall. can we to reach the point that secretary gates and hillary clinton are talking about? guest: critical and disturbing point in this relationship. there are signs that the chinese military is acting without civilian oversight. they have produced developments which are contributing to this trend toward a re-polarization of east asia. the chinese military d a view that is not up to the 21st century. they are still trying to create the region where they are the predominant player for this goes back to the chinese imperial past. one of the important contributions that the president

can make and as visit is to highlight the risk for china quite apart from us of provoking the japanese and other countries in east asia into a confrontational mode. it is in that context that developing a perspective or on regional security is important to both sides so we don't see this re-polarization of asia. discussions with the chinese military to military talks and cooperation is that the core of it. we have cooperated with the chinese military, for example, with the piracy in the gulf of aden. that is a limited but important area of cooperation because the chinese need secure sea lanes of communication. we need to expand that so that china understands if they don't get north korea's nuclear program under some control, that will provoke the japanesethe so,

much less to bring us into a defense role in the region in a much more active way that they will not like. mil to mil discussions are important for bringing a broad perspective on the security challenges we both face. host: our topic is u.s.-china relations. this comes in the week or the president will host a state visit for the president of china. we will have live coverage of the ceremonies wednesday at the white house including a prime- time program on the c-span network looking at u.s.-china relationship and their business partnership and show you this is inside the white house including the toast of the two presidents which has become a tradition for these state visits. robert is joining us on our independent line from georgia. caller: good morning. mr. solomon, with all due respect, i am going to join the chorus of the calls to have been

hearing before. we just came through the christmas holiday. we were instructed to get out and buy products, to stimulate the economy. if you go to wal-mart, target, costco, best buy, anywhere, where can you find any american- made products to buy it? we are making them all in china, india, or wherever. when we ran out of american workers and they wanted to establish factories in china, the rule should have been fair to start with. when you set up a place to make products to import back into the united states, if they did not pay the american minimum wage, they should not have been able to bring that back to our shores at all. given what we are doing, look

what a tiger we are building for usthank you and i think there ia whole lot here that needs to be considered because we are setting a trap for ourselves, thank you. host: when was the last time you heard a u.s. politician of the words," buy american?" guest: our president has repeatedly urged a development not just of jobs but consumption of american products. the reality is we are in a world where comparative wage rates are going to have a drawing of fact i am not an economist so i am not the best one to get into the details of how one tries to hold on to production in this country of low-end products. that is why i keep stressing that our high end products, we

have to protect the intellectual property so that that does not go abroad. that will be a major factor in our rebuilding our economy. host: do you know approximately how much money we owe a chinese banks? guest: i can give you a figure. host: it is in the billions? guest: i am sure it is in the billions. host: how we thread the needle when we owe so much to chinese banks? we have the two biggest trading partners, the u.s. and china. guest: you should get an economist in here who will get into this. host: as a diplomat, how you thread all of these issues with the state to visit? guest: secretary clinton pointed out how complex this issue is. we have a range of issues that do not form a nice coherent whole.

we will be pressing the chinese for developments, adjustments in the exchange rat attractive and we have to work with the chinese who very slowly are trying to move not toward an export-driven economic development strategy but to develop their internal markets so that we can export products of our own area that is an area that we and the chinese a share a common interest which is moving away from export-led growth to internal demand-led growth host: symbolism and protocol is important for all countries but especially for china. why is that? is that inherent i eithe chinesf the great cultures of this planet. they have had an imperial history. they have been the predominant country in east asia for several thousand years. their very name,eans

the central kingdom. for them not to have the respect and understanding that they see as part of their culture and their history is a big issue which is hu jin tao will try to create the appearances of a successful visit even though we have all these difficult challenges between us. the opportunity for our president is to really press on issues that will restore greater balance economically and cooperation on national-security issues. host: richard solomon served as the assistant secretary of state of east asian affairs in the clinton administration. we appreciate your perspective. we will have live coverage of the ceremonies wednesday and other events with president hu jin tao who is spending four days in the united states

including an automobile factory. 15 million americans are out of ? first, the sunday morning programs looking back and looking ahead with a preview. >> beginning at noon eastern time on cspan radio, you can hear replaced of the five network tv talk shows. topics today include america in the aftermath of the shootings in tucson, ariz., the agenda for the 112 congress, and the 2012 elections. meet the press begins at noon with host david gregory who welcomes the chairman of the democratic policy committee, chuck schumer judiciary committee member tom coburn and the president of the national action network, rev. darrell sharpton. at 1:00, a this week on abc. christiane amanpour welcomes those who witnessed the shootings. they include family members of victims. fox news sunday begins at 2:00 p.m. eastern time.

closed chris wallace talks with governor chris christie of new jersey and former minnesota governor tim pawlenty. they are both republicans. at 3:00 p.m., is the cnn state of the union. they discussed mental health in the nine states with republican tim murphy, grace kabbalah pot, and a former director of psychology. finally, at 4:00 p.m., it is face the nation from cbs barry they talk with ed rendell of pennsylvania, republican rudy giuliani, and members of congress about america in the aftermath of the arizona shootings. the five network tv talk shows are brought to as a public service by the networks and cspan. re-airs begin at noon with meet the press. listen to t

you can go online to cspan re.org. weekend, former adviser to martin luther king jr., clarence jones, with a behind-the-scenes look at the weeks leading up to the historic march of washington and "i have a"dream speech. a new biography of our first president. find a complete schedule at book-tv.org and sign up to get our schedule e-mail the to you directly. starting tuesday, the house takes up the repeal of the health care law. watch the debate and final but live on c-span and go c- span.org to read the bill on line and continue the conversation on our facebook end twitter pages. "washington journal" continues. host: we want to wellharry holzer. we want to focus on the jobs

picture. this is a map from time magazine looking at the job recovery gap. in the darker areas like texas, the recovery is stronger but in states like ohio, iowa, south dakota, wyoming, pa., and york, is among the weakest. where are the jobs? guest: you can talk about the geography of which locations have had more rapid job growth and we can talk about what sectors of the economy. been uneven. places like ohio and michigan got hit hardest by the loss of manufacturing jobs. those areas have been slower to recover. places that got hit hardest by the housing bubbleplaces on the, nevada, those places have high unemployment. in terms of sectors of the economy, you have seen growth in various places at the high-end

of professional services and in the low-end in retail trade and hospitality, we have seen some bounce back in manufacturing. it remains quite small and of course health care and elder care has been the one sector that has been strong throughout the entire downturn for host: one of the hardest-hit states continues to be michigan. budget cuts are coming. in 2007, michigan was the only state that faced a budget the last three-five years at blogger because the auto industry. guest: that's right. this is a classic problem for states. state budgets are very cyclical. that means that when the economy deteriorates, state revenues fall a their expenditures rise grid on like the federal government, states can't borrow and they have lost forcing them to balance the budget. that puts them under budgetary pressure. it is something that makes it

harder to recover from the economy. doing things like cutting expenditures to balance the budget then restrikes demands for goods and services fes a bi. host:fromrevious ones persistent. guest:? bid is more severe and as more this recession was brought on first of all by a housing bauble spread throughout thehat burst financial system. historically, we know that whenever you have a recession created by the bursting of a financial bubble, they are often more severe and it takes longer because businesses and households have a lot of debt on their balance sheets that have to work through. they cannot return to the kind of spending to help stimulate the economy. it is not unusual in that sense that this kind of recession caused by a bubble would be severe but tech as a long time

to recover from current ho. host: you can take a look at the job rebound and a lack of what it would be a robustwhere are t? where are the jobs that if the middle class is the underpinning of the u.s. economy, of who is how can you get enough to raise a family, own a home, on a card? guest: you can find those jobs spread throughout the economy. some economists have recently argued that the middle of the job market is completely collapsing are disappearing. i don't think that is true. you see those middle-class jobs and all kinds of places. many of those jobs are in health of licensed practical nurse or lab technician or x-ray technician. you see them in construction and

manufacturing, two sectors that got hit hard but they will bounce back to some extent. you see them throughout the service sector, legal services, protective services, installation maintenance and repair jobs for mechanical systems. they are spread throughout the economy and some of them have started to bounce back and others will take more time host: our guest is a professor at georgetown university and the author of a book. there is a piece ime and his pot the manufacturing jobs are being shipped overseas and they are not coming back. guest: that is true for some of the manufacturing jobs but not all bad. we've gained back about 150,000 of the manufacturing jobs lost. that is a small fraction of the over 2 million that we lost. that is true for manufacturing. some thunder -- some manufacturing remains here.

the more specialized manufacturing in many cases likely will remain here. there are many other sectors where jobs will not be shipped overseas or replaced by technology. many kinds of service jobs and health care jobs and retail trade and professional services and even construction which will come back. that particular interpretation applies to some parts of manufacturing but not all that and certainly not the entire economy. host: you sound optimistic. guest: i am in between. i think it will be a long, hard recover. job growth will be pretty slow. it might take as five years or more to dig our way out of this deep all that we have gotten ourselves into. we have lost over 8 million jobs in this downturn and every year, about 1 million extra people potentially join the labour force. we j are the whole right now. we will have to create three or 4 million jobs to zero absorb

the extra population. i am not overly optimistic about the speed of the recovery but i am more optimistic that once we ultimately get there, we can and will continue to create good jobs. i think policy can help that process briefly want to encourage good jobs and make sure that workers have the education and skills needed to fill those jobs. host: another companion story in usa today is that people are less mobile and they are not moving because there are not as many jobs guest:. some analysts because of the hg problem. people are under water on their home mortgages and that makes them less likely to sell their home and no to where new opportunities to exist. that creates another structural impediment to getting people to where the jobs are. i don't think it is

insurmountable over the long run. host: manassas, va., airline for republicans, good morning. caller: i wanted to ask about the health-care part of best. it seems that most small businesses are sitting there were about how much it will cost. i wanted to know your opinion of that. guest: i think there has been a lot of discussion recently about the impact of the very large health care bill. some folks on the republican side of the i'll have labeled it a job-killer. first of all, really small businesses with 50 employees or less are exempt from the requirements the bill provides for health care. many firms above 50 either already provide that care or they will have several options if they don't. for instance, the requirement to provide health care does not apply to employees working less

than 30 hours. some of them can opt out completely if they pay a relatively modest fine per worker. there might be impacts on full- time jobs but in other ways, the bill might create more jobs either in the health-care sector or if it is successful in reducing the cost of health care over time, i think that would be a positive and that might offset some of the effects on jobs. i don't view this as a large job-killer as it has been described by republicans in this debate. host: there's a story in usa today about the job outlook for 2011. the unemployment rate which is 9.7%, iseen 9.3% = - expected to employees at about 100,000 jobs per not -- per month.

guest: that's correct. different forecasts imply different amount of job growth. with new people entering the labour force all the time, we need 125,000 jobs or so to break-even. that is to absorb the new people entering the labour force. e above 150,000 will start to bring down the unemployment rate. that particular projection for 183,000 per month generates a little bit of net growth above population growth but not enough to move the unemployment rate quickly. that prediction will be a little bit under 9% sounds all right to me host:. south plainfield, new jersey, good morning. caller: mr.lzer does not have as to what is happening in the health-care field. i have been a nurse for 40

years. the first thing the state has done is close 19 hospitals. they are laid off nurses and you cannot get into a school to become a nurse. when you get out, there are no jobs. they have done away our health-care growth is only at the bottom. nurses' aides, home health aides, they called and technicians but they are people off the streets that they train for0 years, they make $20 per hour. that is not a middle class jobs. health care is not the growth in this state. guest: over it is so different than any other sector of the economy. the last three years. what she did described as budgetary pressure. the cuts in publicly financed parts of health care and some other places, of course in a down turn this state, you will

see some decline and pressure. over the long term, assuming it has occurred. some bounce back in the economy, there is no question that employment will grow. it is the most relbased on all. i believe that growth will occur in the lower-paying jobs as she described also in the middle-paying jobs and i and as well. if there has been a flattening out and limiting of demand as some of those sectors, that will occur during a severe downturn. that is not what the long-term projection suggests perry host: independent line, you are next caller:. long-term projections sounds like a country that will be looking for the health-care industry to take off and that is not a bright future for america. my question is on the housing bubble. where can the government find

the rehoussource during the wele program? after owning all these houses, isn't that what the housing bubble is all about, house is not being managed properly? not being managed properly?