steven cook of the council on foreign relations joins us, then gary shapiro will talk about with the u.s. can improve innovation. and gretchen morgenson from "the new york times" on a recent article about fannie mae and freddie mac. this is "washington journal." >> what is clear and what i indicated tonight to president mubarak is my belief that an orderly transition must be meaningful, it must be peaceful, and it must begin now. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] host: president obama speaking yesterday at the white house weighing in on the situation in egypt. welcome to "washington journal" this february 2, 2011. the latest news from the associated press says the egyptian military is calling for an end to more than a week of

demonstrations demanding that mubarak step down immediately after nearly 30 years in power. last night the president of egypt says he would not seek office again but fell short of protesters hope that he will step down. looking at coverage at how editorial boards and pundits are waiting and, "usa today" has this to say. our question for you this egypt headedis toward democracy? the phone numbers to call -- we all -- also have a phone line set up for -- shin-americans.

628-0184. and you can email us. let us take a look at what "usa today" has to say about what is happening in the egypt.

do you think egypt is truly heading toward democracy? fort wayne, indiana, on the republican line. caller: egypt to democracy -- like the democracy jimmy carter helped set up in iran in the 1970's. it is going to be a disaster. we are going to have people who hate america like we have in our land -- in iran. host: let us take a look at some of the images from the newspaper documented what is happening there. another day of demands and defiance, from "the new york times." anti-government demonstrators poured into cairo in a protest that cut across lines of class and ideology. independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, "washington journal."

i think it is more another one of the communist movement. even mubarak talks about social justice. this is all part of this communist movement and the rhetoric that obama gives us as well. we will end up seeing probably some of the same crap. everybody talks about democracy -- what happens about a republic? it is more freer -- gives the power actually to the people. i do not understand why everybody is so gung-ho about democracy when it is another step toward socialism or even communism. host: kenny, democrats' line. you think they are heading toward democracy? caller: yeah, , but we hear in the united states have to worry about calling another country corrupt and all of our politicians are being paid by corporations.

where is the democracy in that? we have to be careful about calling anybody corrupt because we are the most corrupt country there is. host: let's move on to new york, new york, where george is on the independent line. we are focused on the question of whether egypt is headed toward democracy and what it might look like. what do you think? caller: how are you? how are you doing? they will probably never have democracy ever again. i have to say egypt means black men, they are not egyptians, they are arabs, they invaded all of north africa -- chad, algeria, tunisia. that is african land. those are not -- shins. -- egypttians. i am a descendant of the real egyptians -- what it is with

obama and hillary clinton, they are playing games with people's lives. there will never be -- the same in fighting you see over there will be in the streets of america and we have a racist white supremacy mayor bloomberg who is destroying. i would like to say one more time, those are not egyptians. egypt means black man. thank you. be well. host: is egypt heading toward democracy? as we focus on what is happening. "the financial times" has this piece.

let's hear from north carolina where allen joins us on the republican line. what do you think was in the caller: i think the cause of the turmoil is of an economic nature. the inequality of the disbursement of the wealth of egypt. and in order to rectify that, democracy would be the natural

pursued. host: do you think that is a good thing? caller: yes, i do. host: indianapolis, indiana. george, democratic caller. caller: i was wondering if the united states government could review its policy and actions during the period of our history when there were many politicians and government officials believe in the domino theory. perhaps president obama could learn from that period of history and perhaps his judgment could be helped. thank you. host: let us take a look at "the new york times" and its coverage, the large banner headline.

one of the pieces -- huge kyra protests. -- cairo protests.

host: indianapolis, dale on the democratic line. caller: good morning. my comment on this, is why are we giving dictators $5 billion a year? the american people need to put a stop to that because these guys are pocketing this money. number two, we don't need to protect these people running up the price of oil over here and the oil companies are getting wealthy off of this. this is my comments. please have an answer, if you can. host: that is our question we have for our listeners -- what do you think? george, north carolina. independent caller. the last caller raised the question of sending money over -- to egypt. good morning. caller: good morning. i was setting democracy in egypt, just like everywhere in africa.

it is natural for people to live together. the u.s. and the french and all of the power from the west, doing africa at evil. it is not good for democracy. the same problem all over africa. --have seen in cote d'ivoire i know people did not talk about that that much in the united states but the power struggle in cote d'ivoire. the french and u.s. -- they are the ones doing evil to cope of war -- to cope of what so they cannot live out democracy. host: what mubarak laid out last

night. caller: i will continue to do the duties and instructions given to them in a manner for the interest of the people. to reflect and respond to the people's aspirations. but realizing the political, social, and economic reform. fighting poverty. and ensuring social justice. i instruct the police apparatus to shoulder its responsibility and undertake its duty to protect and save the citizens in absolute dignity and honor, respecting their rights, freedoms, and dignity. demand legitimate powers to it immediately state the

necessary procedures, to continue to identify and arrest outlaws and those who perpetrated the security may opt -- mayhem and chaos egypt has seen -- looters, arsonists, and those who intimidated unsuspecting citizens. this is my promise and pledge during the very few months remaining in my current term. i prayed to god to guide me to the successful right path to end my career in a manner that is applicable to god and the people. host: president mubarak of egypt speaking last night in a televised address that he will not seek office again, but would not step down, which is what protesters amassing in egypt would like to see happening. let's go to james, a republican

caller from florida. caller: how are you doing? you know, it seems like we are looking at -- seeing him stepping down, i think it is more towards and oil thing. looking at $4 certainly in the future for all life. we already invaded two countries. it is all about an oil crisis. him stepping down seems to be more of a governmental change. i am not sure if it is for the good of the worst. it because what is going to be taking over the country in the upcoming months or years?

and will the new democracy coming out -- would bring in the right direction? host: let us look at a comment on twitter. looking at a different part of the region for a moment's, jordan. we are speaking with dale from the associated press. of course, i should rephrase that for you. tell us about where you are. guest: i am in amman, jordan, and i worked as a journalist. host: good afternoon and thank you for speaking with us. tell us what is going on in the jordan. the decision that was made to change the government structure, but of course not nearly as dramatic as people are calling

for in egypt. give us the rundown. guest: basically the government structure has not been changed. merely the prime minister has been dismissed and his government. now many jordanians say they are not happy with the appointment of the ex-army general and ambassador to israel and they pledged to continue their protests. the reason they are unhappy is they say they see him as part of the establishment that has failed to bring about economic and political reform. they say he did not accomplish real reform during his last tenure in office during 2005- 2007. host: dale gavlak, now, the king of jordan made this move. is this something that will be able to preserve his leadership? guest: ok. basically, king of the bill up,

the ruler of, seems to be above the political fray. basically the people blamed most of the problem on whatever government of prime minister happens to be in office at the time. basically, during three weeks of protests, people were demanding the dismissal of the former prime minister and they got that yesterday. they also have been asking for the election of the prime minister and other cabinet officials. host: is there any move to end the monarchy? host: no, no, not at this point. even the muslim brotherhood, which can operate here as a legitimate political party through the islamic action fund, says jordan is not egypt. we don't want to see the king go. but what we want to see is some

big changes in the government structure and how things are run. so, basically, they want to see jordanians be able to elect members of parliament, to have the elections really be free and fair. the muslim brotherhood and islamic action front boycotted the parliamentary elections in november, saying that they were actually being squeezed -- seats were being given to allow room areas where the bedouins live and they are basically the bedrock of support for the king. they were saying they want to see the election law change, but they also want to save the prime investor actually rise up through the ranks of parliament and in that way that would be a

popular election for the prime minister rather than having been appointed by the king. host: the associated press said king of the a lot demanded immediate revisions -- including legislation regarding political parties, public meetings and elections. the muslim brotherhood dismissed the changes as cosmetic. how closely are people in jordan paying attention to what is happening in egypt and is there a sense that this is spreading or there is a lot of movement back and forth as far as the energy of reform and change? guest: jordanians are watching the situation very closely. there will be another pro -- protests in front of the prime ministry. basically the jordanian protests started before the egyptian protests. they were inspired by tunisia.

you have a wide range of political views of the people who were protesting, everything from the moslem brotherhood to university students, to leftists, to trade unionists. initially the protests started because of rising prices on foodstuffs and fuels as well as rising inflation. jordan is a battle in -- battling 12% unemployment rate as well. people are saying they are fed up and the needs to be some kind of change and what their voices to be heard. a host: finally, dale gavlak, how significant are these changes? compared to what typically happens in jordan? how big is this moment to really? guest: look, the king has changed his cabinet's many times. this may be about the seventh

time he changed it recently. but it comes at a significant moment. the protesters were demanding dismissal of the former prime minister. basically, in a sense, they are appeased with that. but like i said, they are not happy of the appointment of rauf bahi because they did not see him reforming last time around and a questioning what he would do this time. we will see if he includes some of the opposition in his cabinet. if he does, maybe that will help appease things. we would just have to wait and see. host: dale gavlak dale gavlak from associated press joining us from jordan. thank you very much. let us look at the latest news from the associated press, what is happening in cairo, egypt. clashing in the central square

where demonstrators are calling for the ouster of president mubarak. our question for. this morning -- the you think egypt is heading toward democracy? we have the usual lines set up -- we also have a line set up for -- egyptian americans. ohio, good morning. caller: i want to make it clear that i may democrat, not a progressive. progressives are jumping on the wagon on this and, good gracious, the republicans have gone nuts, including mentioning war with iran. but you should remember, before they get a government, there could be anarchy, which is far

worse than mubarak could be. we have known about him for 30 years. we basically -- to keep a good army there because of israel. for each dollar egypt gets, israel gets $2. they are being paid for this treaty. when they do get a democrat government -- supposedly democratic governments -- we don't want to recognize them because we don't like who they put in. we may not like who they put in here. for instance, this democratic society is overrated as living proof. we have put in the most bizarre republican tea baggers in office that there is. democracy is overrated. we are sitting here living proof. host: let us take a look at what is happening in israel related

to the situation in the middle east and northern africa. this is from "usa today." israelis fear egyptian sea change. bristol, pennsylvania. jim on the independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am not really sure they are headed toward democracy. one thing i am not hearing being discussed is natural gas line deal that happened -- i believe it was 2005 -- but the bush

administration. what they did was they forced egypt to sell israel natural gas under market value. what happened was, in 2010, egypt started to have a shortage in reserve. then they were forced to buy back natural gas from egypt -- excuse me, from israel -- who now sold it back to them above market value to the tune of, i believe it was $12 billion. so, when the citizens of egypt heard about this, they became enraged. this was back in august of 2010 when they were forced to buy back the natural gas from israel. i don't hear anybody in the

media talking about this. this is what enraged the people. they started marching way back then. but the media is constantly -- they keep israel out of it as if this is just a march against -- i forget the guy's name -- but it is actually a protest against their president, israel, and the united states for brokering that deal back in 2005 under the bush administration. host: let us look at a comment from twitter -- president mubarak said last night in his address on television that he plans to die on egyptian soil and a lot of commentators and fall to watch politics and the middle east say that means he will not be leaving, not be fleeing the country, as some protesters had hoped he would do.

that that is the place he is making a stand. let us take a look at this piece in "usa today." mattie is calling us from the

egyptian american line. caller: this is a once-in-a- lifetime chance for democracy in egypt. here in the u.s. we have to understand that the egyptian people got sick and tired of this regime for 30 years. the people on the streets i talk to back home to not want continuity of the same thing, just changing the face is. they know that this regime, as soon as they get that, they will take advantage of the people over again. there will be beautiful revenge -- brutal revenge. this was not by islamic or muslim brother head, but this was from well educated people who wanted change.

there is a lot of people in the egypt who are capable, nobel peace prize winner, that were kicked out of egypt because of this regime. the u.s. has to support the change in a much stronger way. otherwise the young people love egypt that we are seeing today will turn into radicals and then will come and complain why are they doing this now. the u.s. has to take a stand to support democracy in the region. this is not going to affect egypt only. this is being watched by everybody in this region. host: he was calling on our egyptian american line --

let us look at aljazeera -- the main square in cairo where clashes have broken out between pro and anti-government demonstrators. let us go to an e-mail. i will read this as we look of the images. "i think the answer is, yes, but that is not the issue. the people want change and it is their country in their decision. i am shocked by callers who say the egyptian people don't have a right to change the country." where are the purple finger crowd? showing the by marks that they cast their ballots, like in iraq. william on our republican line. is egypt heading toward

democracy? caller: i hope so in an orderly fashion. whenever you turn over power to a new generation, you've got -- tried to do what in the right way, not in a hasty way. you do things too fast -- you know, like, you make a mistake, you do not want to repeat it. whenever you are going to turn over time -- power to anybody, the one that is going to be in power knows exactly where things are coming from. host: landover, maryland. democratic caller. caller: i am a little confused but i am not trying to be disrespectful. so-called egyptian american -- either you are american or not.

but if they are a great group -- educated, wealthy, now you have an opportunity to go back to egypt and take control of your own country. israel is complicity, the united states, sirius debacle of foreign policy. this is the greatest challenge to the obama administration since its inception and i guarantee anarchy will continue. this is 2011. not 1011. these so-called monarchies are things of the stone age. queen noor -- the king of bill, they need to abdicate -- king of the love, they need it advocate. hopefully this will go to central and southern part of africa and looking get all the other tyrants and gangsters out of office. host: let us hear from and egyptian-american from washington, d.c. -- aaron was making the comment that you are either egyptian or american -- but we want to hear

from people who have grown up in that country -- we want to hear from you. caller: thank you for taking my call. i will not comment on the previous caller's remarks regarding whether you are either american or egyptian american or arab-american. this is a country of immigrants and the true americans are the ones right now all over the united states in our country. those are the true americans. should really celebrate the history and culture and the stories that brought them here. the point i want to make is is regarding monarchies. i lived most of my life also in jordan. two things, first, it is really important for us to understand that the arab world is very heterogeneous. we come from different places. each country has its own culture.

the other point i want to raise is, yes, democratization is important but it is a step-by- step process. it is really important for us to look at whether or not these places really need to take those steps. i think democracy is going to have been in egypt and i am looking forward to it. it is a proud moment for everyone who is under 30, like me. host: do you still have family there? caller: absolutely, yes. most of my family now is for jordan. for the jordan situation -- in the king is more liberal than a lot of the people. he pushed really hard for a lot of us to work on education, high literacy, health, what have you. this goes to my first point. the arab world is very, very diverse place. a lot of places, it is not just

one place. for the jordan case, it is just, you know, the king is very liberal, the people understand that. they have ties to him. there are a lot of muslims are obviously in jordan and they know he has links to the profit to a lot of levels -- prophet. i do hope we adopt the european model. a lot of my american friends who perhaps have not been to other places in the world know that in europe there are monarchies that still have influence. and jordan is edging toward democracy and we are getting their. for egypt -- hope is only now. now is the moment for egypt. host: let us hear from "usa today" military reporter jim michaels joining us from egypt.

good morning. hello? guest: however you? host: thank you for being with us right now. tell us what you are seeing? we hear reports back pro-and anti-government forces are clashing in cairo. guest: some pro-mubarak rallies. there have been some argument. i will not call it major clashes. in tahir square, where i was a few moments ago, the crowd had dissipated dramatically. there are still some people around enchanting. but it really things like some of the momentum has diminished allot today. host: there is speculation that these pro-government forces might be essentially rent-a-mo bs in coverage by the

government? and you give us -- guest: i saw some of the other day that. to be bussed in. but the pro-mubarak wednesday seem a little more spontaneous. there were huge -- nothing like the anti-government rallies -- but they seemed to be more spontaneous and a sense that people were coming out. one of the interesting things about the pro-mubarak rallies is they were hugging and kissing police that of course have been the target of a lot of the anti- government rallies. host: we are talking to jim michaels from "usa today." we are looking at images from aljazeera showing live images in tahrir square in cairo, breaking news, looking at some of the clashes between pro and anti- government groups. jim michaels, how significant is

what we are seeing today versus yesterday? there was so much energy and activity. bunning to have this million- man march yesterday. it is a quieter today? are there as many people out in the streets? guest: it is quieter today. you almost get the sense that yesterday was the climax and the thing was starting to wind down. it is hard to say -- and i think friday, prayer day and after words, will be a big test. but you do see this management. momentum has slowed a little bit. there were some pro-mubarak forces out. police are starting to go back into the city slowly. the army is still there in large numbers. the police, who were the target of some of the anti-government sentiment, are coming back in.

streets are being cleaned up. i saw them removing some of the burned out police vehicles left from several days ago. some stores are opening -- not all -- but some stores. and really surprisingly, the internet and large parts of the country is back up today. host: as the internet goes back up, are egyptians paying attention to president obama's comments last night and how are they waiting in? guest: that anti-government people have been critical of the united states for not calling for mubarak to -- mubarak's immediate resignation. of course, these forces say that remains their goal and they will remain in the streets. but i think there is more of a reality setting it now -- settling in now and people are recognizing that some bulls have been reached.

instituting some reforms. certainly not the dramatic changes that they called for but there is a reality setting in. and also fatigue. the country has been without banking, stores, even food being in short supply. some fatigue setting in as well and return to normalcy being embraced by a lot of people. host: jim michaels from "usa today" joining us. usatoday.com -- we can look at some of the images they brought us in this morning's paper. let's go to franklin, tennessee, where james is on the line. our question for you -- is egypt headed toward democracy?

caller: i sure hope so. i believe that is all they really want. they want equality. as much as we want in the united states. we are in about as bad a shape as they are and i understand people complaining about. they have been oppressed for years. they are hungry. the same thing is going to happen here with the stock market thing with our food. the stock market has been control over our food and food prices will start going up so you will see people here. they kept us entertained. that is how they controlled us. equality in this country is bottom-line, to say the least. and i hope we pull together as a people and love each other. pull out of the bickering. we will have to pull together to beat this. host: richmond, virginia. eric, independent line. caller: good morning. i just feel as individual free

people here in the united states should communicate our support to the -- sinn -- egyptian people. we have the same means through social media. we should communicate our hopes and fears to the egyptian people and through our representatives to the egyptian government. a viewer writes -- a story from "usa today" looking at hillary clinton. she is staying on message as egypt evolves.

let's take a look at a couple of other stores have been in the news today. domestic stories. ascent plant -- senate planning to vote on a health law repealed. democrats downplayed the judge's decision down in florida. today senate republicans, seizing on a court ruling that the health care overhaul passed was unconstitutional will push for a vote to repeal the legislation. the senate effort is most certain to fail, likely insuring the push to undo the health measure goes no further, at least until the next election.

he listed all of the freedoms that the government must do. he listed freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of assembly. when you are addressing an area of the world that has been here for almost 2000 years, it seems like it was pandering to the muslim brotherhood buddies. why do you think he left out freedom of religion? think president obama was handling to the muslim

brotherhood in his speech yesterday. i think he was trying to communicate to the egyptian people and the egyptian military of where the united states stands on these issues. i think the most important part was when he called for a meaningful transition. and that he was recognizing the demand for democracy and freedom among the egyptian people. whether he left out freedom of religion or not, the president's statement was abundantly clear in that he recognized demands for freedom and democracy. host: next up is as joe, calling us from maryland. caller: thank you. i have two comments. we all seem to forget that the

no. 2 figure in al-qaeda is the egyptian brotherhood. that is the mindset we are dealing with over there. number two, this should be an orderly transition. to have 250,000 people show here, half a million shote there, egypt is more than -- we should not be swayed by those numbers that we are seeing. we should have orderly elections. the united states should get involved. guest: he was not a member of the muslim brotherhood. he turned away from the muslim

brotherhood because they were not radical enough for him. there was no connection between him and the muslim brotherhood. in terms of an orderly transition, if that is what the president wanted, he does not want an orderly transition. they want to maintain the regime as it is. his calls for an orderly transition, his emphasis is an effort in order to break the momentum of these hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of egyptians who turned to the streets demanding political change. it is an effort to break the momentum of these demonstrations. and ultimately reconstitute his leadership.

host: republican from montana, good morning. caller: good morning. mr. kocher, we are talking about democracy and whether it is in egypt or the united states. we equate democracy with freedoms. my question to you is very simple. since you got out of bed this morning, what have you done that has not had some direct control over your actions by our government? guest: i think that i enjoy the freedoms that the constitution gives me, and i enjoyed living in a free country. i think the difference between the united states and egypt is abundantly clear. egypt is dominated by the

military. egyptians do not have the kinds of freedoms that we enjoy here in the united states, freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, freedom of religion. the regime in egypt manipulates opposition throughout the threat of violence. it is something different that we have here in the united states. i do not buy this argument that we are being controlled by the government. host: sank to so much, steven cook. you have a book coming out on egyptian politics. guest: hopefully not releasing in the fall. host: thank you very much. coming up next, we'll be talking about innovation and the impacts.

first, a news update from c-span radio. >> it is 32 past the hour. a study released today finds that president obama's call to have 1 million electric vehicles on u.s. roads by 2015 is unachievable unless the auto industry and government do more to help the average consumer understand new technologies. among the recommendations from indiana university's school of public and environmental affairs, funding for demonstration projects and the continuation of tax credits. today, president obama signs the new start treaty after the russian parliament approved the measure last week. in was signed by russian president medvedev. each country will be allowed 15,050 strategic warheads.

britain's former foreign secretary jack straw in testimony earlier today says he repeatedly warned the then prime minister tony blair that promoting a regime change in iraq could be illegal. he went on to say the cabinet did not hold detailed discussions before parliament was asked to vote. and there was "great anxiety among ministers about president george w. bush's intentions leading up to the conflict. you could hear this even later on c-span radio or watch it on our website. those are some of the latest headlines. >> this weekend on c-span3, we observatory. university of virginia professor on the fugitive slave law of 1850 and how it indirectly resulted in the

expansion of the underground railroad. experience american history tv on c-span3, all weekend and every weekend. >> sunday, the founder of the american spectator magazine and has written over a half-dozen books. and his latest, "after the hanover." join our conversation with stewart e-mails, phone calls, and and tweets. >> we simply have to learn to work together.

>> today, step-by-step, we are putting ourselves on a better, more sustainable path and pushing ahead on the road to growth. >> find and watch this year's state of the state addresses online at the c-span3 deal library. a search, watch, clip, and share. guest: we were thrilled that he talked about innovation almost 10 times. he talked about the american dream. he provided a vision of where we should go as a country to realize that dream.

it was all based on innovation. host: the obama administration this week started a new campaign to increase investment with small businesses. i am looking at the washington post article. the co-founder of a o l encourages innovation -- how significant is this development? guest: is a very well funded foundation and is focused on .ntrepreneurial shi ultimately, as president obama has pointed out, it is about gathering money that is already out there and focusing on entrepreneurship. every little bit forward is a good step forward for entrepreneurship and innovation. >> in your book, "the comeback: how innovation will restore the american dream, " you talk about

an incident in china. an official said china is up and america is it down. the realization that america is on the decline. >>guest: i think any american would feel the same. the chinese basically telling him at the country is going up, which is true, but i still get emotional and feel the blood rising because it bothered me because it was rude, but also it later bothered me because it is true. china is expanding dramatically and educating their people. we have closed off our borders to the best and brightest people and to trade. we have not had a free trade agreement in four years. host: as the obama

administration talks about innovation, what actual details do you want to see come out of the white house and out of congress? guest: the last two years has been pretty difficult. it is this been a very difficult time. clearly, president obama has turned. americans want jobs. . .

what we are all doing here, particularly in the federal government, but also in the private sector. we are being led by our innovators, private and nonprofit. we need all of us working together. >> secretary locke speaking on monday about the white house effort -- the pro-business campaign to increase startup

companies and small businesses. what is your reaction? host: guest: he is showing the heart of the administration is in the right place. i think the challenge is a much bigger one, and that is the fundamental policies which determine where these places are to invest abroad. you are right now under our present laws, you cannot bring any money you make abroad without being double-taxed. you cannot hire the people he wants around the world because of our visa powers. as president obama said in the state of the union. even when you train someone -- you kick people out of the country. companies cannot hire the people they want. we have fundamental problems.

our legal system discourages investment here. i would like to see teachers added, frankly. we need good teachers. we have way too many lawyers. 30 years ago, 100% of the venture capitalists were in the united states. now it is less than half, for a lot of very good reasons. we have to capture that. it is not just about investing. it is an act of government, whether it is high taxes, litigation, lack of free trade that we have today. we cannot isolate ourselves as president obama has said. >> -- host: the consumer electronics association has been the trade association for more than 2000 companies.

and it runs the largest annual trade show. let's look at some of the recommendations that you go through in your book. businesses lower the corporate tax rate. enter more free-trade agreements. asked that noon -- every regulation and law have a measurable goals. told us through this one, the idea of of having regulations and laws and with the stated, measurable goals. guest: congress gets so excited. they come up with their solution, washington solution. yet, things change. so we have the case of law as being on the books, it may not be possible, and every law has

some set for five years. the point of this law is to measure against what congress said and see what happened. we have too much loss into many lawyers it is easier to do business, it easier to start a factory, easy to employed elsewhere. we want jobs here. we want good jobs. what has made as great for 100 years -- the last 100, was the century of america, the fact that we are an immigrant culture. we have the best and the brightest. the challenge the status quo. they wanted to do better. we have a constitution that protects us from our own government squelching us down. think about it. every innovation threaten someone else. the people who fix typewriters. travel agents. those jobs to not exist anymore.

why? technology. it is good for everybody, but it is harmful for the people who are dislocated. what president obama said a week ago in the state of the union was, those days are over. we are competing worldwide. he laid out the framework for the country. he did not say it that way. he spoke about strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats. and he applied that to the nation. that was the first time i heard about innovation. he has laid out something really good. what i disagree with -- targeting specific industries. we have to do the exact opposite. host: let's go to the phones. paul, democrat line, washington,

d.c. good morning. caller: the obama administration had been hard on industry for the last three years. why isn't that -- guest: i am sorry? i did not hear that. host: record profits. guest: it has to do with the difference between your revenue and your expenses. this is not because of the president. we were in a brutal recession. that led to cost cutting. that part of the business cycle is -- in america, we have a business cycle that has not ended. we were rescuing companies like general motors and chrysler and aig when companies go under and

fail, it hurts the employees, but it is good for their employees. general motors has no debt. it has absolutely nothing to do with the obama administration. host: good morning, republican line. caller: good morning. first-time caller. i started listening to c-span over the last several months. thank you for inland need to be reality. i am a little bit nervous, but i

appreciate you. you know, since the obama administration has come into office, the over and down the number of regulations, deregulation that have been placed in all industries has done nothing but increase paperwork. i come from martin silda, va., one of the largest furniture- producing counties in the country. now it is the poorest city in the state of virginia, probably one of the poorest cities in the nation. might address to you is, when is the country going to wake up? he addressed where he won in this country to go come and i do

not think we need government spending, i think we need to cut back on regulation. need to let all jobs expand. guest: thank you for calling in being a great american. people all around america need to be vocal. that is what is happening. i think the challenge we face is we'd are interested in the short term and making ourselves feel good. there is a long term of there. there are two potentially unwinnable wars, troops in correa and health care.

we are making decisions that really hurt us for the future. you cannot take on in and spend $1 for every 50 cents you take in. we are in serious trouble. you can raise taxes. you can cut spending. you can grow the economy. i am concerned about growth through innovation. americans are so good at it. it is on in our blood. it is our destiny, i believe. we have to address taxing and spending. we have to get real about it. we are in serious trouble. need shared sacrifice from every

american. host: russell writes on twitter and asks what percentage of the 2000 companies that belong to cea make products in china compared to what percentage is made in u.s.a.? this issue of buying american. it does not always work of the way they hope. there are companies like amazon and even a, lots of companies like teal, which was started a couple -- a couple decades ago in lexington, ky.

we also have companies that employ thousands. we have companies like best buy and fries. obviously, we have exported to china. free trade is so important on the bilateral. all of us agree we have to enter these free trade agreements. there is concern -- something's -- there is concern china imposes rules on its partners. china does not respect property. it is unfair.

we have to be firm. i think both president bush and president obama have dealt with a complex relationship with that route or crew statements. host: you were critical of the buy american clause in the stimulus package? guest: of course. we have some of the world's greatest software companies, and they can compete anywhere. we're anyone is doing software acquisition in the world. so, the problem we face is, if u.s. government does this, if other countries retaliate, they have our reason not to buy u.s. products. any country is not going to have a preference. they want to fight fairly.

there are canadian provinces. what are the treatment plants? things like that it is a very simple and answer. ultimately, it is very harmful to the competitiveness of the united states. >> -- host: tennessee, good morning. barry? caller: it's larry. host: good to have you, larry. caller: i had a question about welfare. does he feel like the burden needs to be shifted to the people who have already earned their income through the years that they worked for the company, and for so long, they make that the pensions that

they earned with the company? is that the way we need to get america back on its feet? guest: thank you for the question, larry. your question is is it right or fair for a company not to pay its pension obligations. you have to keep it in corporations for the most part. you contribute, they contribute. what is fair, you get. i do not think corporations are interested. the challenge is what happens when a corporation goes bankrupt where is the pension benefit? those are serious challenges. and i think even more serious challenges faced by the local, state governments.

is it right in california when you have a locality higher state workers and pay them $800,000 a year and a pension for the rest of their lives when they are 40? in the answer is of course, no. that is wrong. that is fraud. governments will have to be sent these types of pensions. generally, if the company is still around, it will pay up its obligations. the system is under great stress now. host: you mentioned immigration reform a couple of times. and in your blood, you tackle that issue. -- and on in your book, you tackle that issue. you say citizenships given to students allow for a quick pass for the financially able it also allows a quick path to

citizenship for on to the norse. -- entreprenuers. guest: absolutely. the challenge with immigration is we should be strategic. almost all of us come from immigrants, and that is a great thing. that is the strength of america. we have creativity. i think we need a way of screening so people do not become hordes of the state'. we want the immigrants, which will make us stronger.

it could be if you have $500,000 every three years you could be qualified to become an immigrant. i have no apology for speaking english. my wife and her family are immigrants. they had to learn english when they came here. all of them are very productive, contributing to our society. i think we need to focus. host: jeff, republican, north carolina. hello. go ahead. caller: i want to talk about how ge went overseas, went to mexico, i mean to make a plant. that is not productive for america. they just did that last year. to make solar panels.

they started a solar panel here in america, and it was too expensive. so they went to china. we keep on saying, we need to be businessmen. everything seems so negative for the american person. i do not see how we can accomplish anything. host: jsue says -- guest: we all feel emotionally like, how could we lose those jobs? how could we keep those jobs? we keep the jobs with a strategy that cuts back on elimination, cut back on what we impose on american manufacturers.

ed some of the factory jobs -- they announced they were losing that plant to mexico and the work creating another one in another part of the united states. this hurts people, but that is just part of being part of a world competitor. we have to improvise. does. we cannot stop companies. i still believe the american worker is one of the hardest workers, one of the most educated. apple, for example. what a great american company. when i go to china, they complain that apple only has $4 of their products that they sell for $3 in china. the chinese have simple manufacturing. i have been in chinese

factories. they have the highest percentage of college-educated people in united states. how does that reconciled? what germany has done is they have highly-skilled people and they put them to work in factories where still matters. such as automobiles and medical equipment. we are highly skilled, we have great people in detroit. with people looking for work now. and they are free americans. -- and they are great americans. it is not the job of the government to do much other than get up of the way. we are saying, what are the barriers? i will tell you -- we think about manufacturing in detroit. if you go to detroit, what happens is there are workers,

and we cannot lose everything we say for. -- he cannot lose everything we saved for. host: you spend part of your time in detroit and part of your time in washington, d.c. contrast those? guest: washington is a healthy economic environment. there are a lot of wealthy people here. we do not make anything in washington accepts trouble for other people elsewhere in the country by making rules. heine median income. -- high median income. i go to detroit and see the houses boarded up and for sale and it breaks my heart. in washington, we have one

qualified. in detroit, we have a precision barrages now. -- garage now. wow, what a wealth of talent going underutilized in detroit. it is a great a city. -- it is a great city. people looking for something to do. caller: good morning. we used to have the headquarters for mack trucks, and we used to have these zinc mining industry. just a couple years ago, everything that came down came up of every administration because of regulations with trade that killed the industry in this area. i would also like to say that people who have hands on, who can actually turn our ranch, use

a hammer, stuff like that. it is an unnecessary curriculum. back in the day, when you talk to young people how to maneuver with your hands, you could build and create a with like to know why the regulations cannot be wiped a side -- aside? guest: i was meeting with the new governor of alaska, and he was telling us a bell building -- and he was telling us about building a bridge and it was stuck in the epa even though there is no record of an environmental problem in that area. it is as baffling. if there is a moratorium on regulation, some way of

sunsetting them, we would have a base of injury. yes, working with our hands, there is something really satisfying. americans are good at it. it is difficult to have that come back, and it is so much worse before it hits better -- gets better. it is going to get some much worse as things run of of money. the federal government is going to run of of money. what we have done -- we are shifting all our money from our youth, our kids, our investment to people who are older, who are retiring it is a vast inter- generational rift of money.

older people demanding social security, health care, getting every single entitlement. and now we are stealing from our kids with two years of unemployment. they will not be able to have much of anything. it is quite a shame, frankly. i think it is something this generation will be known as -- the first generation in american history that did not do well by their kids. instead of sacrificing for their kids, they have heard their kids and -- they have hurt their kids. i will not sleep as long as that is happening. host: democrat caller in ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. i have a general question. we keep hearing about education, and i am sure you probably read, for the first year ever, china

will surpass us in academic statistics. what will do you see higher education plane in the comeback of america, and do you think we should invest much more? thank you. guest: thank you for that question. when i wrote the book, the editor asked me to put onion something about patents. there are two kind. there are copycats. a lot of that happens with asian companies. i think a lot of the major innovation is in united states. i am encouraged about that. i do think the university system is important. we do need to follow what the chinese do. they do not have a top 100 hot list. but they are so important.

my child is being educated by a nanny who speaks only chinese to him. i believe in the future of china in terms of having to deal with it for our people. in terms of universities, as bad as we are in k through 12 and an objective measures, our universities are the best. we're getting competition from europe and australia. we are hurting ourselves because we are on welcome to foreign students. before september 11 used to be welcoming. that is a huge hit. i was on the board at george mason at the time. he sought a falloff in applications from international students. -- we saw a falloff in applications from international students. education is something, as

president obama noted, -- we ask questions. we do not learn from rote memory. i believe our schools could be much better. we have to get people to become teachers, which is why i would like to see more lawyers get out of law and become teachers. there are a lot of things coming on. my father was a union organizer for teachers. and he was passionate, but he said it was not just about the teachers. he said it was about the parents. parents have to take responsibility to keep kids away from the video games, get away from their tv set. my child has not watched anything on television no other than perhaps an exercise video. we have obligations as parents and we have to be better teachers. host: david, good morning.

caller: i agree with you 100%, but not only do we need to destroy the regulations which, i said we believe, our president and majority of his party as liberals altogether believe in, the government should control everything. we have this problem, the unholy alliance between government and unions, like laborers and unions and teachers' unions. our educational system seems to be more interested in teaching ideology instead of the true science and everything. that is a big problem. of course, there is deep tax and spend agenda. as a military veteran, i remember every time it seems like -- they want to cut us down

to the bone furious -- cut as down to the bone. the troops need. guest: thank you for serving our country. the reality is we have a lot of young people in iraq and afghanistan risking their lives. there are great americans who have served our country. those of us who are here are not prepared to make the tough decisions and a sacrifice and in any way at all. there is no sacrifice going on in america that i can see. that imbalance is incredible to me. i do not know how a country could be at war, and we are talking about cutting taxes. we're talking about three years of unemployment.

spend, spend, spend. and where is the sacrifice? there is no question. people when they get into washington -- that is the problem. you cannot be fired when you're working for the government. you can have a belief system that what you're doing is great for the world, but you know what every business does, and they have to be regulated because they will hurt us unless we regulate them. then you have the political appointees to going to an agency like the epa with their own biases. is very difficult to do business in this country. we are losing jobs because of washington. we are losing jobs because of some many laws and regulations. that has to end. host: james writes on twitter, please talk about the importance of energy prices to manufacturing. guest: it is obviously a huge

consolation that any company will do as to where they manufacture. what are the costs of inputs? businesses -- every american ceo has a bias to want to manufacture in the u.s. you lose a lot of time getting to your market to the u.s. if your market is abroad. there is the cost of transportation. so, all these factors are important. energy usage. you want low-cost electricity. some manufacturing, for example, manufacturing means less of a factor. the energy is less of a factor by design. it is definitely a factor. host: georgia, a democratic

plan, good morning. caller: the morning. he mentioned health care as one of the reforms that needs to be done in united states, and i am sure one of the attractions for doing speakers overseas would be that those countries have nationalized health care. i am wondering how that would translate to employers with that seems to be a tremendous burden and cost to business? guest: i appreciate that question. he seemed to imply by the question that the cost of health care is a burden for manufacturers. it is an attraction to some companies. the reality is, when they have u.s. citizens abroad, where there is a test involved in it could be serious, u.s. companies

often take their employees from abroad back to the united states because they do not want to have to get a test to see if they have cancer which needs immediate action. the cost is really not that great in cases where you what early testing in detection. second, we have the best health care facilities in the world. the wealthy people the rest of the world comes the ninth dates. for that reason, employees are often flung back to nine states. i have a chapter in "come back" about this. how do we get uninsured americans on insurance? the reason health care costs more in the u.s. is because we have a very diverse, overweight -- we have expenses and we do

everything we can to keep anyone alive, whether or not they want to stay alive. families often keep patients alive because he never expressed their desire. host: quick response -- if you are worried about your children and grandchildren's future, you and everyone else will have to pony up to taxation to pay down the national debt. americans really ready to feel taxes? this generation will have to make big sacrifices to help to two generations. guest: democrats will oppose any cut in benefits and republicans will oppose any increase in taxes whatsoever. we will have to pay more taxes, otherwise we will have to lose some services.

trickle-down implies that it ignores the economic reality that the higher the taxes, the less -- for some reason, there is an income device in politics going on. people who make money and no resented. i look at doctors. they struggled to be paid and they work their butts off, and then made make a little money, but why should that person be taxed more for someone who coasted through high school and party all the time? someone who did not work 60, 70 hours a week to save lives? i think a society is based on income inequality. the top 5% of the population is already paying onion taxes, and

this tax the rich is class warfare, and frankly, it is very american. steve jobs, bill gates, these people created wealth for themselves and for others. they changed the world. host: gary schapiro, author of the book "the comeback." guest: thank you. host: first an update from c- span media. >> secretary of state hillary clinton earlier said the changes sweeping over egypt and other parts of the mideast show how american policy makers are all in uncharted territory and that the fast-moving developments require u.s. officials to "be more nimble and innovative and be more accountable than ever

before." she went on to say that the events in egypt and jordan and elsewhere shows how critical top leadership is on the ground and how the crown can shift under your feet. -- and how the ground can shift under your feet. she added that the u.s. risks being left behind if it is not on top of technological advances. the tribal center on terrorism says fewer u.s. muslims were accused in terror plot last year and 13 of the 20 were foiled before the big team -- before they obtained weapons. more than 2 million moslems live in the u.s. the senate is in session this week, and tonight, a freshman senators will dine at the naval observatory as guests of the vice president and his wife.

in yesterday's senate session, by a voice vote, senators passed a bill naming a utah court house after the judge killed and in the tucson shooting last month. the court reconvenes at 10:00 a.m. eastern with live coverage on c-span2. >> you are watching c-span, the new politics and public affairs. every morning, it is open but washington journal," our public affairs, in -- our public affairs: program. also, we have supreme court oral arguments. on the weekends, you can see our signature interview programs. on saturdays, "the communicators." on sunday, "q & a."

c-span -- washington coming your way. a public service created by america's cable companies. >> washington journal continues. host: the latest news from the 80 looking at what is happening in egypt. the ap says several thousand supporters of president hosni mubarak, including some writing verses and camels -- we wanted to give you that update, keep you in the know. let's go to gretchen, our reporter for the "new york times." thank you for being with us. you look at the cost of tax

payers to defend the former executives of fannie mae and freddie mac, and you estimated the cost at $100 billion so far. guest: that includes the defense of the company as well. it is not, strictly speaking, $100 million for the defense of those three executives. the issue is why are the american people paying these legal bills, which are quite large. they are former executives who left the scene quite a few years ago and who were found by several different investigators at a regulatory agency to have really conducted themselves in a questionable fashion. host: he said in this he's from monday -- taxpayers have spent millions of dollars defending the top executives.

-- call surprise were you by these numbers? -- how surprised were you by these numbers? guest: i was really surprised. that is a lot of money. what it indicates is you have teams of lawyers working furiously and killing many many hours -- billing many, many hours. there is no incentive to settle the cases, move quickly to trial. the perverse incentive is to drag this out as long as possible, and that just does not seem fair. host: you can call with your questions and comments. for republicans --

let's dig into these numbers a little bit more. $132 million including accounting irregularities. give us some context. this has to do with the money crisis. guest: absolutely not. this is one of the infuriating aspects. in 2004 and 2005 both companies were found to have inappropriate collaboration's. fannie mae and freddie mac had overstated its in come.

-- income. in the outflow of that, the top executives were onion a big scandal at the time. -- were on in a big scandal at the time. they were producing enormous losses for the taxpayer. this is really years before the subprime thing happened, and yet we are still paying these legal bills. host: and you have written about how the lawyers for these executives have received tens of millions of dollars. guest: the former ceo, the former chief financial officer, and the former controller together -- the taxpayer has paid since the government takeover $24 million in their defense.

here are three people who were found by the sec and the office of housing oversight to have accounted improperly for the company's results, and yet here we are years later, still being asked to pony up. host: this graphic is from "the new york times." where the money has gone we can see the numbers here -- the cost for the top executives, also the executives, other executives. former and current executives. even 195 non-executives. over $17 million.

let's get to the phones. shreveport, louisiana. charles joins us on the republican line. good morning. caller: god bless c-span. it is about time we are having something like this. every morning i watch c-span. the first comment is -- bill clinton may have this on tape. he said he was part of the problem when someone asked him about fannie mae and freddie mac. he said all his buddies made them give that these loans, knowing these people could not pay for them. knowing they could not pay for them. but they were black and they could -- and they had to give it to them. and barney frank -- c-span has it on tape -- "we are just going to have to roll the dice on fannie mae and freddie mac and

hope it works." barney frank's words and not mine. the republicans will have to get to the bottom of this. and some dam hence better role. -- -- some damn heads better role. guest: the costs for the lawsuits are dwarfed by the losses fannie mae and freddie mac has already reported in mortgages. in the scheme of things, $150 million for legal fees does not sound all that bad. i think it adds to the element of unfairness. what is very interesting, too, this number was very hard to pry out of the companies and the regulators. thank heaven the republican from texas really went after it and asked for them.

we would not have been told, we were paying if we had not been forceful in paying for these figures. to me, that is a sign. they do not want us to know what we are paying for. host: the washington times had a piece yesterday -- lawmakers not likely to evict fannie, freddie. how realistic is it to essentially split up or reward the federal government for what is going on for these two mortgage finance? guest: i think the consensus in washington is it would be very hard to do because we do not have a private mortgage market of any size and strength right now. we're still in the aftermath of

the mortgage collapse, and we still have people who are afraid to lend, we still have properties under water. there are tremendous had wins against the market that can be operated by the private sector. many people believe this is something that will have to be kept going for now. . .

what they did at the time once they wanted to keep the market -- the mortgage market moving. but to need access to buy properties. that is really. as far as covering the losses.

it was in order to them busy. at the same time, it was passed policy. host: tim joins us on the independent line. how are you? guest: about this -- in my community, we have a huge building -- some of them brand new. we went half a mile away. essentially, this is all blame game of who is at fault. we are not going to see a turnaround on jobs. if i could, briefly the top 5%

is not accurate based on $300 per hour. they are not seeing anything at all. guest: as far as the unemployment question, i am absolutely in agreement. this is slow growth. it is better than a double-dip recession. but, you know, it is the -- it is still deeply unsatisfying. it is true that the economy cannot recover robust lead --

robustly. " we have to hope for is companies to start hiring again and these are the beginnings that will be a little bit more solid recovery. stephanie, on the republican line. good morning. guest: -- caller: there was an implication that all the black people were the recipients of this and this was not dispelled by your desk. i have never been under water to a major -- the got away with, i guess the prospect.

is the problem with the united states of america there is something that has not been talked about lately, and that is be working for. this is started. $11 an hour cannot buy a house. thank you. as far as the countrywide article, i wrote articles about it in 2008. i wrote about the former chief executive and how much stock he was able to sell when we settled with the fcc. i would urge your caller to look up my stories on countrywide.

it was the largest lender in the country and very integral to the fannie mae problem because it was the largest supplier of loans to fannie mae. those companies are deeply intertwined. i agree about the working poor. it is important if people are able to live in a happy idea with a better life. how much reflection -- host: a much reflection has been done as to what's they were doing in the

'90s and 2000. we talk about taking advantage of the working for, people who want to get homes and get mortgages that were otherwise out of their. it was a positive idea it was an idea that homeownership was positive and they could raise the rates. i think this is just and noble idea that went too far. the idea was as regular prices rose, it was out of reach for other people.

it was a way to make housing affordable. but really what should have been asked at the outset was is home ownership something that should be pushed by the government, the private sector to the degree it has become. i am not sure if

i was just terribly lucky to end up working for the intel corp. for 20 years. when i look at what happened to this country -- basically and i think these are cbo numbers. something like $17 trillion of family net worth was destroyed in this whole business with the banks and wall street and the home mortgage industry. what basically happened is they think the banks fundamentally became agents. they became in effect commission

operations. they would sell off these bad loans that people could not afford. after the average investor. i was lucky. i did not get hurt too badly. . . .

caller: center for taking my call. i have a son who lives in decatur, illinois. the homes in those areas are like $200,000, $300 -- $300,000. my son, when he applied for a home loan, he went to realtor. he was told they will give him a loan for home, for a reasonable rate, that he could afford or more. that is a pretty good amount to

pay for a halfway decent home. unfortunately, as he went to the bank, the refuse him to get a loan -- actually, first, they said, yes, you are fine. he should start looking. you have been pre approved to get a home. after he looked, he is divorced, he has a little son, he was looking forward to buy a home. his rent in that area is 8 $7. with a loan that would also -- he has a bachelor's degree -- he was able to afford that amount. unfortunately, for him, he pays a child-support that is $600 a month for one child. as soon as we found out that he had child support payments of $600 a month, the refused his

application for a loan. host: let's get a response. >> this happened recently, because after the crisis hit, and after all the losses were flowing to the system, banks became very wary of lending. in this type of a situation, the bank is seen the exact opposite of what it said during of the boom. you do have a lot of people in circumstances where they might be able to afford the loan and they have the down payment and they have the job, but now the banks are seeing no. it is difficult. it always happens when you have a boom and bust. the pendulum absolutely swings to the absolute opposite end of the spectrum, and that is what it sounds like your son is going through. host: in washington, d.c.,

diana. good morning. caller: i want to say two things. for everybody listened to the man who was on before, extolling the virtues of all the wealthy people living in washington, d.c., you might have pointed out to him that in the bill, within five blocks there are four or five homeless shelters. not everybody who lives here is as wealthy as it is made to sound like. we have quite a bit of unemployment here. i will hold you to the statement you made that you are going to hold people accountable to find out what happened to all this money, and particularly, what happens to the case against maxine waters with the banking think with her husband. why did barney frank not have to pay a price for his shenanigans with fannie mae?

they can just retire and not pay for his misdeeds? how come charlie rangel? what happens to blagojevich, who supposedly she did that government out all these moneys? guest: that is a huge problem that people agree with you on. this unfortunate to a sense of roles of powerful people that are different from the rules of everyday people. i do not think that is what america is made of. as we move forward, the accountability issue will grow ever larger. i think that we are starting to see some government reports coming out about the crisis that will fill in some of the pieces of the puzzle that have

been missing. this is an incredibly excruciatingly slow process. i feel like i have been writing about this now for four years, and i still feel i do not know the half of it. i pledge to do my very best to get a final accounting and a final reckoning and hold people accountable. from cleveland, ohio. caller: the reason you do not know the answer to the question, is you are ready to pries grab blame. the ownership society was put out by the republicans and bush, a program where the poor can own a home. what it ended up being, a

classic inside job, and the reason why i say that is because bush and them rode out the tarp money and they did not have a mechanism in place to keep up with who got loans. guest: i would say in answer to that that we really have expanded an enormous amount the argument the government makes is these institutions are integral to the operation of our society, with the financial market that has to operate smoothly for businesses through run, people to be paid. some of it has been well spent

and some of it has been returned. as i said before, we need to do a final reckoning, and that is gone to take a long time. we cannot come up with that answer right now. host: the comment on twitter. corporations get the rights of persons, and we have a comment asking if you can talk about the history, greenspan's conspiracy, to get out of the recession of 2001 led to the housing crisis. people are finding equity to home a per se -- to fund a purchase. that: there's no doubt burst in 2001,le o we went into recession. the policy makers in washington

were faithful -- were fearful the recession would be deep, so they dropped interest rates. greenspan and fed brought interest rates down to a record 1%. that fueled much of the boom in lending, and its field the leverage that many, many institutions took on. host: we are going to have to end this. we have another program to get to. we appreciate you with us. talking with us about fannie mae and freddie mac and the top -- and the cost to taxpayers. thank you to all our guests this morning. we will be back tomorrow morning at 7:00 eastern time. coming up next, on c-span, which will go to the senate judiciary committee. the house is out this week. it will be looking at the constitutionality of the health care law. patrick leahy will be the leading this. leading this.