ning's. >> thank you. we came for a briefing. thank you from the board. for everything you done. the second part of your question was worth waiting for. thank you so much. all of your questions. i hope it was broadly what you you wanted to know. to hear from someone in the egyptian army. a big movement in the u.k. and your analysis on youtube and leading -- heaping around the countries, i learned something. we have been trying to contact by skype. it is not working or he's not answering? he's not answering. maybe we can't get through and hear more from people, if you have contact there. for -- from all of us, thank you so much and thank you for coming. thank you so much. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [captions performed by the national captioning institute]

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cannot gather all the aspects of this kind investigations are underway. these groups entered the square and there was some kind of friction, which was very likely to take place. those supporting mubarak gathered and a protest

democratic administrator's order in the square. -- or in the square. they came with the intention to create riots and violence. there were two opposing groups in two different locations. i cannot tell what happened, but the situation added fuel to fire barrier to all of these will be investigated. as you are aware, clashes between youth is different between clashes between the older people. it seems as the young use our armed with pocket knives, whatever. whatever. friction heated up , blood

started to pour, more attention -- more attention. -- tension. it will remain in our memories for a long time. it was not expected that the it was not expected that the square can be filmed from the rooftops totally divided as a battlefield they are getting more enthusiastic and excited, he stayed there for three hours. the injured from both sides.

some of the anti-government demonstrators refused to be transported to hospitals by the ambulances. it was a reflection of the lack of trust. i was on the telephone line and the health ministers started to administer first aid treatments to both sides. this is an unprecedented event in egypt. the bottom line is that we witness a very bloody of -- more losses, more damages. it is the most grave matter. it will take more time to heal and more time to address. that this incident

will be investigated. as the prime minister and president that -- as the prime minister, it was only the problem -- to carry out a complete and in-depth investigations and the total state of absence of security in egypt. resulted in grave losses in public access, and lack of security, an individual and domestic security bread for the first time, we see the u.s. and the elderly forming groups has

vigilantes' watching their own neighborhoods. this is the only positive aspect. to see the family members and household joining hands to defend their own lives and assets. however, it is very regretful and disappointing got to be in this situation encouraged investigations will be carried out very thoroughly. out very thoroughly. it will be the top point of the investigations. i promise, this investigation will be disclosed and we will establish whether these clashes were administered or organized or orchestrated by some person, one party, one body, whoever, or whatever it is. and person or body of responsible will be held

accountable and penalized accordingly. accordingly. i offer an apology -- i apologized. i cannot imagine that this incident could take place. being a state official, as a public servant, i believe i am duty bound to offer an apology. there was a loophole how they entered. why were they left on the scene? all of these issues will be put to investigation. our reiterate my apology. -- i reiterate my apology.

by virtue of my office and the ethical and humanitarian duty, i tell you that we apologize for the incident. it is not plant. it was unintentional. it could be planned and plotted or orchestrated by others. however, the disaster has suffered on that promise to be the last. other than that, we will start the dialogue or understanding in an attempt to bridge the gap between both sides skirted -- sites. the meaning of dialect is that i

should not cold steadfast to my opinions. otherwise, there is no point in initiating the dialogue. it means that i sit at the table with a degree of understanding and flexibility to negotiate positively or negatively. if i have demands, i will sit at the negotiating table and i will say, and these are my divans. -- demands. we should negotiate and to engage in dialogue to reach common ground. above all, we should bear in mind that we should ensure the safety and security of our children and a square. it is not acceptable to see our

young egyptian youth fighting is all egyptians, throwing smoke and molotov bombs. this is unimaginable. this is unacceptable. i hope this is a lesson to learn and i hope we exit safety for the better. and we will not open the floor. i will not leave any questions unanswered. i will go from right to left. i will not leave any questions unanswered. i hope that no repetition to save your time. we have another duty to discharge. more important than my due date

with you, we are one family and i have a duty with the mass media. we cannot smear our reputation, we cannot smear our reputation, but we should immediately tried to address -- dressed in loans to our reputation which was injured abroad. please help him -- please tell me to complete my dialogue with the foreign mass media. >> the dialog will be initiated with the use of demonstrating and a square or any other party? and a square or any other party? will you attempt to reach a settlement? there is no doubt that there was

a bitter controversy. these are five questions, not one. >> after the first part of your >> after the first part of your question, be i will -- let's open. let's listen to one another. and they listen to an idea that may enlighten me to move forward. dialogue is without limitations. to whether it is willing to dialogue, -- two of whoever is willing to dialogue. wereerday, the youth

going through hard times. i appreciated the situation, been but i was telephoning them. they were the same age as my children. we are open to all. without any limitations. as for the last part of your as for the last part of your question, we cannot deny -- we should not add fuel to the fire. there are possibilities, even if it is a conspiracy, we committed a mistake. this conspiracy succeeded in driving a wedge between all of us. >> question -- there is an

international concern about one of the important parties in egypt. are the operations running as usual? concerning the pipelines, are they functioning? >> i assure you that there is no implications. everything is up and running. even our daily -- are running. to save time, i check with my fellow ministers and their positions before i came here

today. i paid a visit to the ministry of commerce. to insure that the daily household goods, are made available credit i assure you there are no negative impacts in our daily lives. however, if we continue in the current status, there will be grave implications. by the grace of god, everything findailable, but you'll long the tqueues. we are dispersing salaries. there are time constraints. the suez canal is functioning.

if any operations are disrupted , we will raise the issue with , we will raise the issue with those in charge of its operations. >> i have a three-part question variable -- question. some feel that a fraction will erupt again. have you seen any assurances to bridge the gap and is likely -- insuring their safety?

it is planned that banks will reopen on sunday. i hope we will succeed in preventing any further clashing among the demonstrators. once i am done with you, i will speak with the responsible parties to prevent and avoid any fiction. -- friction. we also call on all demonstrators to appreciate the assurances. egypt is suffering grave damages. there is a right to express your

opinion so long as you are not to blocking roads, causing any violent? acts. acts. >> question -- what was the role of security personnel in the clashes that took place yesterday? yesterday? >> to begin with, we lived very exceptional circumstances. the catastrophe we face in relation today's security

arrangements between the police and the army and the actions of the police resulted in total or partial absence of the police personnel, underground -- on the ground. as of the armed forces, their main dui -- their main duty was to safeguard the area. for fear of any casualties, all of these arrangements are being reexamined. i hope what happened yesterday it is not repeated. question -- will the muslim brotherhood be secluded from the dialogue you are about to engage in? who has the final say?

you are apologizing that you were not aware. no one was. >> i was not aware, no one was aware. i was not aware whether these groups gathered individually or in groups. the security and a.m. is likely to happen anytime, anyplace. -- the securities mayhem is likely to happen anytime, anyplace. do not be offensive in your question. i was surprised to see -- they must have been brought in from the area is surrounded. the area is surrounded. some said that the --cacacacame

in revenge. others said they were paid off the dogs. -- paid thugs. this was a surprise to one and all. please rephrase your question. to my knowledge, as we speak, no one will be secluded from the dialogue, including the muslim brotherhood. >> they are reporting that one of our colleagues and other journalists are being harassed or threatened t.

it is absolute chaos. >> if you are insisting on indirect questions, i will not answer. make your questions sensible. make your questions sensible. next. >> question -- you mentioned t that you will put the incidence of yesterday to investigation. will it be a political investigation? security or illegal? >> there is no doubt that it will be legal, judicial investigation. it will result in further

investigations. it should be laid in the hands of big judicial and legal system. it may require political or technical investigation, which will be referred to at a later date. >> more about the political unrest in egypt now from the state department. brief comments from secretary of state clinton on how journalists are being treated. >> good afternoon. we are here for a very important occasion, but before we get to that, let me say a few words about the situation in egypt.

we condemn it in the strongest terms attacks on reporters covering the situation in egypt. this is a violation of international norms and guarantee freedom of the press and it is unacceptable under any circumstances. we also condemn attacks on peaceful demonstrators, human- rights activist, the foreigners, and diplomats. freedom of assembly, freedom of expression, and freedom of the press or killers of an open and inclusive society. -- are pillars of an open and inclusive society. there is a clear responsibility by the egyptian government,

including the army, to protect those of threatens and to hold accountable those responsible for these attacks. the egyptian government must demonstrate its willingness to inshore journalist ability to report on these events to the people of egypt and to the world. the vice president spoke today about the need for a free and fair presidential election. that is essential. i urge the governments and a broad and credible representation of egypt's opposition, a civil society, and political faction, to begin immediately serious negotiations on a peaceful and orderly transition. the egyptian people expect a meaningful process that yield concrete changes.

>> in terms of the current evacuation effort, we had one flight moved today with roughly 50 passengers on board. that brings us to roughly 2000 u.s. citizens, family members that have departed cairo. we will continue to assess the need for these flights. we do not have any evacuation flights planned for tomorrow. during the course of the week, we have seen a decline and flow of u.s. citizens to the airport. we stress again that there are still commercial flights available. we will not have flights tomorrow. we will continue to watch this on a day-to-day basis. >> there were 3000 people roughly that expressed interest

in being held. you got to a thousand out. what does that mean for the other thousand? >> if they did take advantage of our recommendation. the registered with us to let us know that they were there. in many cases, they may still have chosen to remain in egypt. in other cases, they have gone out through commercial means. we will continue to monitor the situation, where american citizens made clear that they still wish to depart egypt, we will adjust their flight schedule. >> did the secretary all line to in any particular steps of support that you are willing to take? >> the king himself has indicated that jordan needs to

continue with efforts. i saw a story today where he had knowledge that jordan's own efforts have been too slow. we will support their efforts to undertake more political and economic reform. as the secretary said recently, following her bilateral meeting with the foreign minister, we have a very important program of economic assistance to jordan. that will continue. we will work with jordan to see how we can support these reform efforts. >> is u.s. support for king abdallah in any way different than what had been your support for mubarak? >> jordan is a significant

partner in the region. king abdallah, just like his father, and just like president mubarak, has been strong supporters and participants in the efforts to pursue middle east peace. notwithstanding the ongoing change or transformationour int, and it is our interests that guide our relationship. we have a strong relationship with king abdulla. we look forward to working with his cabinet. we have a strong partnership because we have many shared interests. >> as that mean it is saved? if there is a popular uprising, you have monarchs in the middle east and not just king abdulla,

who enjoy in u.s. support, from morocco to bahrain, and i am wondering if it is different if you are a king. >> our message to jordan is our is our messaget to yemen. we want to see political and economic reform. of particular leaders, kings have special qualifications .o >> third jeans region t-- their genes? >> i do not want to see the kind of economic reform he is abdicating.

actions will be comparative. >> [unintelligible] violence obviously a escalated in the last 24 hours. can you tell me if there were any calls for help from the embassy to assist any americans who were trapped in the where and to get them out of harm's way -- anywhere to get them out of harm's way? >> we were focused on this and, throughout the last few days. our decision to do and authorize departure and then and ordered the departure and also instructions to american citizens in egypt or who might be considering travel in egypt are of great concern as the situation unfolded of violence

for americans would be there and is there. we are concerned about the turn to violence. i cannot tell you whether i have any reports of serious injuries. we are tracking the impact the current situation has on a range of people from ordinary citizens to loggers to journalists to other activists. we have been in continuous touch throughout the day as we are tracking instances that have come to our attention. we have mentioned the efforts on the ground to a police -- to at least disruptive not interfere with the media coverage of the

ongoing activities. i expect to have a statement by this afternoon released. but in particular cases, you have informed us of tv crews, and drivers, and others who have and detained by authorities on the ground. the embassy has been in touch with the ministry. they talked with the foreign minister to seek his assistants. we have talked in washington with the egyptian ambassador with a similar message, so we are monitoring this very closely.

>> do you have a message to a journalist? >> journalists and two very important work -- do a very important work. we support freedom of the press, and that has been our message to the government of egypt, and any attempt of interfering with this fundamental right and freedom is of great concern to us. >> see you think this is being orchestrated by anybody in the government? >> this is part of a concerted effort. i cannot tell you who is directing its, but with the increasing number of people and roughed up, the journalist cars attacked, offices broken into,

these do not seem to be random events triggered an -- to be random events. >> can you tell us about that? >> the and thus the door returned to washington early -- the ambassador return to washington earlier this week, and he briefed the secretary earlier this morning. >> on the call for king abdulla, did they ask him to explain it was time to go? >> i will leave the specifics of the conversation to private. >> there are indications that some of have been held by the

ministry of the interior. >> we have been conveying the information you have to the embassy. and we are tracking this. we are monitoring case by case all the reports that are coming in. the embassy has been terrific in having security officers use their contacts to determine the status of all journalists that have been roughed up or detained. >> is there a pattern? if you have had several cases, is there a pattern? >> i do not think these are random events. there appears to be an effort to disrupt the ability of

journalists who cover these events. it could be in anticipation of events tomorrow, which we are bracing for a significant increase in the number of demonstrators on the streets, and the real prospect of a confrontation. >> you said efforts were too slow? >> i was repeating king of dela himself. -- king abdulla himself. networks and is something like direct election something they would do? >> i do not think in a 15-minute conversation of conversation got to that level, but these will be efforts but jordan

undertakes. i think now they recognize the importance of increasing the demand for political and economic reform. he is doing his best to respond, and we appreciate the leadership that is shown, but words have to be decided by a decisive action. >> back to the roundup of journalists, you are not answering the question. new york people on the ground -- as the state department have information that the ministry of the interior is involved in this crackdown? >> i think get this stage we have information that is , whichly coming from you o says in various interactions'

personnel have been involved. we have raise that information with the egyptian government. we want to investigate this fully very good we want to have the journalists who released. we do not want to see this continue. it is a matter of those who have been detained. it is a matter of those who have been in situations. we want to make sure wherever journalists are, there is an adequate security presence nearby. >> he seemed to indicate if this was a conspiracy that the protesters were being directed

by foreign forces. he seemed to indicate they were upset by the way for in the -- friendly countries have been trying to give advice about what he served would do. -- what egypt would do. >> we have no information to serve just -- to serve just s-- suggest they are being managed by former elements. we made clear that it is working for the government to reach out to representatives of egypt's opposition and begin serious negotiations. we think that is a clear imperative of something that

needs to be done now so the egyptian people can see if there is a credible process under way. this process needs to be given out. >> what is your message to the opposition? is your message but they cannot get to where he steps down, because they say they are not going negotiate until he steps down. what are you telling them? >> i believe he had a conversation today. our message is the same to both sides. they have to come together. they have to begin a credible process, and it has to be credible negotiations between the government and the

opposition. >> on the evacuation, you mentioned a flight carried 50 americans today very good where did the flight to go to the? >> i not sure i know the destination, but we will get done before this is over. >> they suggested there were two flights have carried 35 americans. >> we had two flights scheduled, but my information is that only one was needed a very good >> on the policy for the administration handling the crisis, and would you say that the internal divisions about how to handle the crisis have been a typical of the division's you see on any policy matter, or have they been exceptional? >> i have been in several

meetings, and i have not seen any division at all. >> there is unanimity about how to handle the crisis? >> we have a vigorous process. we are also dealing with something that is unprecedented, so this is a transformational moment. somebody in one of the meetings said and we are looking at the unknown. this is a complex process. there have been a wide range of views expressed, but we reach policy recommendations by consensus. the policy recommendations to the president have been clearer. >> for decades we have heard

from arab and muslim heads of state set -- that they reverted to the borders they have. the you believe these process to realize that claim -- do you believes these protests belie that claim? >> it is important to achieve peace in the middle east. it is important for the israelis and lebanese. but is important for the region as all told greece gave -- as a whole. we have also said it is

important for these countries to undergo political change. we have seen the demographic of an increasingly on population where various economies and various political systems have not been able to produce the kind of opportunities to young people want and deserve. these are twin imperatives. i do not think one discounts the importance of the other. >> the use see any connection with israelis and -- do you see any connection with israelis? >> hang on a second. i think if you have 1 million people on the streets, there is probably an number of factors.

if they see a need for change, they will interpret what that means this is why we encourage an orderly change, that it is in egypt's interest in the region cause interest to address the questions people have and to answer those questions and move forward. there are probably a number of agendas, but what you are seeing an -- of syria and -- people are demanding change. they are demanding a responsible and accountable government in response to the demands of their people. >> did the ambassador made with them yesterday or today? >> no.

>> she reached out to multiple figures. the muslim brotherhood was not one of them. >> is anyone below that level reaching out to the muslim brotherhood? >> how do they make an interpretation of what the army is doing? now they are taking some of them. how do you see them? >> we are in daily contact with a defense and military leaders during geared -- military leaders. i think the military has played a constructive role in being a stabilizing force on the ground, particularly relative to what the situation looked like prior to the weekends. yesterday was a bad day for each

of it. -- for egypt. we are very impressed with the posture expressed. >> do you think the military is following with the government is telling them to do? >> a professional military follows the instructions of government. >> on your conversation with king abdulla, how much of a concern is there you are hearing that you are going to -- questions about american loyalty are really penetrating through the region. if you are going to distance yourself from someone like president mubarak, they are concerned they are next if the person -- if the presence in their country gets larger. how do you assure them that the

u.s. is still an allied? they are. >> i am not going to see that point. our relationships are governed by national interest, our interest and that of other countries. they are not based on particular personalities. we enjoy close working relationships with leaders. we have enjoyed american presence going back to the with president moe, an -- mubarak, and that has been important. who leads egypt or other countries is a decision to be made not by the united states but by individual countries, and we would like to see the people have a say in the composition of

their governments. we will continue to work with the region because it has global significance. >> these countries themselves can count on the u.s. as an allied but not necessarily their leaders? >> again, the supposition behind your -- >> the importance of king abdulla as an ally -- >> it is not for us to choose leaders of countries. we will work with leaders of countries, but our relationship is guided by a crucial interest and we share with many countries in the region. >> can we go back to american citizens in egypt. is the embassy aware of any americans who need help?

>> we are aware of the one case you have reported in the last 24 hours. that is one reason why whenever people travel to a foreign country and we asked them to register with the embassy and if they have needs to communicate directly with the embassy. in that particular case, and we may or may not have had a contract, and it is unclear if it was with the embassy, but we will stay in touch and closely monitor the welfare of any american citizen, and where we can be helpful, we will dispatch assistance or try to work with the host government. >> in that case, are you able to reach out? >> i believe we have been trying to reach her directly, and i am not sure we have been able to

reach her yet. >> given the pictures we are seeing out of egypt, many are wondering what is keeping the united states from advising mubarak to step down immediately. >> it is not up to the united states to dictate who will govern egypt. we are in touch with the government. we have had direct conversations with president mubarak and his senior leadership seem and are sharing our best advice on what they should do in response to the movement and now of what they are seeing on the streets and the demands of people have for change. we will keep our demands private. >> the vice president said

president mubarak is staying until the end of this term, and he said departure means chaos. does this mean your call for a ?ransition now >> we want to see a transition now. we want to see a credible process for the government and other key elements of the egyptian society come together to review what needs to be done and to take specific actions and in do so with urgency. that is what we have been encouraging since the president talked to president mubarak. we are just encouraging him that you have no time to waste. [unintelligible]

>> what is what president mubarak has announced, but ultimately the decision on how long he remains in office is a decision for egyptians. >> [inaudible] are they in fighting, calling it interference? >> we are not interfering at all. leading to clear and credible whole region we are leading to clear and credible elections in -- we are leading to clear and credible elections. if there is a practical assistance we can provide, we are happy to do that. we have programs which assistance to civil society. we are happy to continue those or expand as needed. >> some of the opposition says

they do not want to talk with a government, because they feel they cannot do that until mubarak is done. and what is the u.s. ambassador saying to those groups hamas -- to those groups? >> the greater danger of ongoing confrontation and violence region in this is why we continue to encourage the government to come together non and have a broadbased effort, move forward, so people can see that change is coming and that change is occurring. we continue to encourage that. now there has to be serious negotiations undertaken between the egyptian government and

opposition leaders. >> [inaudible] >> i have entered the question a number of times. >> i did not see the report myself, but i believe he is reported to have sent the government is willing to open conversations with the missing brotherhood, and he said he is not long for the presidency. are those good things? >> thep will get them off of and the egyptian-lead process. >> people are also asking for change around the globe, but they are saying most of is by a few leaders around the globe.

>> that is kind of of broadbased sweeping indictment of our aid effort. we have civil assistance to the benefits egyptian society. i would challenge your assumption. >> the you think there is a ?onflict of interest right now >> no, we want to see an orderly transition to free, fair, and public collections. our concern is the government house to move further than it has. >> as the u.s. government come into possession of any evidence as to who was behind the attacks? have we traced back to the

mubarak regime? >> i do not know that we have a sense of how far as the chain it went. >> is the party in determining coherence so it can take part in meaningful negotiations? >> it needs to take time to have a genuine process to have real elections. knowing that is going to take time, the sooner the process starts, the better. it needs to start now so you can have opposition figures, and through the normal politics, they will work through their

opposition. it is fair to say that the opposition is struggling to sort through how to do this, and that is why we need a process. >> do you identify any particular figure or group as the leader of the opposition at this point? >> this is any egyptian process. whenever results from this will be made by the choices of the egyptian people. >> do you see change immediately in egypt? >> i have addressed that question. that is a decision to be made within egypt. >> did they forced the mobile carriers to send out pro-mubarak

text messages? >> knowing that those were sent out yesterday gives us a strong indication that this was an orchestrated effort by elements close to the government. >> with people texting messages of support for any group. is there something wrong with that? >> by itself, there is nothing wrong with that. the violence that we saw yesterday gave us great concern. we have strong indications that that was an organized effort. >> i just wanted to make sure that you are not supporting freedom of speech for the protesters, but not the government. >> organized groups, it is perfectly fair. it is important to know what they're organizing group's board. if that was an organized effort

of intimidation, back to not be tolerated. has reachedin hd.c. out to the embassy. >> and jake wallace reached out to the embassy today. >> have you expressed your displeasure? >> there is going to be a statement by the secretary. it might be ready as soon as i get off of the podium. we have made our views very clear. we have condemned in the strongest terms attacks on reporters covering the effort in egypt. we have expressed our grave concerns to the egyptian government. we asked them to look into it. we are expecting news that the reporters have been released.

we want to see a commitment by the government to do everything that they can to make sure there is freedom to report on the ongoing events in egypt. >> it is a signal of displeasure over lunch. >> our first desire today was to make sure that we do everything that we can to get the reporters released. to try to speed up the process. we have done what we have done by phone calls. if this continues, which do not get the response from the government that we hope and expect. then we can do other things. >> today is a holiday. tomorrow, tahrir is going to be full of people again.

what do you advise if the fighting or shooting starts again? >> in our conversations with egyptian leaders today, which expressed great concern about tomorrow and the possibility of confrontation and the rising risk of violence. we are expressing our concerns and offering our advice on what needs to be done. >> if president mubarak hold onto power until august or september, what do you think the international map will look like? do you think that this regime will be isolated internationally? will leaders rally around president mubarak? >> you are focused on the wrong thing. what we want to see is for the region in a country that is at

the heart of the middle east to see real change taking place. dramatic change that opens up new possibilities for the egyptian people and serves as a model for other countries. they are watching events in egypt closely and tunisia closely. everybody understands what needs to be done. we would hope that country by country, they would respond to the call of these people and to respond to the policy that the secretary outlined. and to undertake broad efforts towards social, economic, and political reform. >> is this still the case? >> there is no change there. we have said that we are prepared to review. >> does the u.s. government believes that president mubarak is in total control of his

government and the apparatus? >> we have no reason to think that he is not. is president mubarak the leader of the government-backed he is. that does not mean he is issuing every instruction for every action. when askede some of the things we have seen, we cannot say we are in the apparatus. some of these instructions to interfere with journalists. we cannot say where those orders were issued. president mubarak is still the president of egypt. >> you were talking about how much you would like to see change in the area. i note it is a basic question. why is it important for this company to see this change happened?

>> it is something that we have advocated for many years. it is important to the people of these countries. it is important to the people of tunisia when the government needs to continue to respond to the frustration that drove a street vendor to set himself on fire and set off a dynamic that we are still seeing unfold in tunisia. that has had an impact on other countries as well. it is fundamental to the united states that we have a government that responds to the will of the people. that is what we want to see from these countries as well. >> he is scheduling a further talk to other soon. he is talking about a time frame that goes from now -- until the presidency can do so. are you happy with this

timeframe? >> we are aware that the vice president sulieman has had some meetings. they are not broad enough to meet the clear aspirations of the egyptian people. he is fulfilling what president mubarak has instructed him to do. it needs to go further, faster, be broader. we would encourage the egyptian government to redouble their efforts. we would encourage the opposition to come forth and engage constructively. that is what the egyptian people want to see. >> you say that we want to see dramatic things. time is of the essence. are you prepared to take dramatic steps on your side to make it happen? >> it is not for us to make these things happen. this is not a process that will

be dictated by the united states. we are giving the government of egypt encouragement. we are giving the leaders of our best advice on what to do. it is their decisions, it is their country. they need to respond to the aspirations of the egyptian people. it is not about us. it is about the relationship between the egyptian people and the egyptian government. it is clear to us that they are taking a different approach today than they did yesterday. >> the concern was said that there was a fear that this would break down. do you think that it can break

down? >> i do not think that we see that. >> and very briefly, is it still your view, the administration's view that the sooner elections are held, the better. >> i have not changed what i said yesterday. this is an egyptian process. within the boundaries of being able to put forward a credible election process, the sooner the elections can be held. one of the challenges for egypt will be, what are they going to do about presidential elections? what are they going to do about parliament? there are lots of decisions to be made. as soon as they demonstrate that to the egyptian people, the better. >> you made reference to a neighboring country. there was the announcement that he will suspend emergency rule very soon. what do you think about that?

>> we are encouraged by his statement. we hope that actions will be followed by words. >> [unintelligible] >> i am not going to get into that. >> but pakistan extend the suspension of a u.s. official? >> we encourage the government of pakistan to release our diplomat. he has diplomatic immunity and pakistan needs to meet its diplomatic obligations. >> did you call it a difficult time? showing support to jordan in this difficult time? >> it is a complex, difficult time for many countries in the region. i do not think that is an inappropriate term.

>> are there any kind of engagement at the present time with the palestinians? >> i can say that there has been a particular an engagement in the last few days. we still have an important meeting coming up in germany this weekend. we will have a chance to have a broad base discussion on where we are. i am not aware of any particular actions. >> and do you expect any israelis or palestinians to be there? >> i am looking at the schedule and i am not seeing any meetings. i am not anticipating any meetings from israelis or palestinians. >> is this good encouraging news that the policy has the wedding

for a number of years? as far as police are concerned, do they need u.s. help to fight those elements? >> they have not made any determination of what the fate will be of those facing deportation. >> i think the investigation is still ongoing. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> the egyptian vice president said that the unrest in this country is being caused by outside forces. he was interviewed on state run television. our coverage is courtesy of al- jazeera.

>> we are passing through a defining moment. they have demands that are acceptable. these demands were examined and we met with some of the youth who had raised these demands. these were put to examination in order to respond to them. i regret to say, on monday young youth, some other operatives carrying their own agenda. it might be related to outside forces, or other domestic affairs. the objective behind this was to creat the maximum degree of

instability, intimidation, and rift among the people of inch -- people of egypt. the 25th of january movement was not a destructive or sabotage movement. it was a movement of demand. the impact that resulted from the infiltration of these suspicious operatives with the police and justice and politics was huge and deep. it had an affect on the police and their ability to confront the sabotages. they took the duties of guarding

the constitutional legitimacy. the armed forces are safeguarding the people and preventing perils from the people. president mubarak, when he found out that the demands voiced by the 25th of january youth, he found them acceptable. he discussed and examined how these demands and the needs of the homeland can be met. president mubarak laid down a plan in order to have these realized. it was announced in his last address to the people that he had responded to all of the lawful demands. we could have also accepted further demands. we could have also responded to

further political parts. however, the time is inside. the presidential elections will be carried out in august or september. it will not go beyond this time limit. until that moment, we have less than 200 days. hich, certain amendments would be carried out. they require a great deal of time, both constitutionally and legitimately. the youth was demanding best. it means that we will not be able to examine, debate, or rule on the constitutional amendment. there must be a parliament to

examine the constitutional amendment. that means to sacrifice these amendments in order to respond to the demands. september is a time limit which must be observed. otherwise, we will have a constitutional vacuum. we should also calculate our measures within this time limit in a very constitutional and local manner. if we dissolve the parliament, it means that we will take further time in order to initiate a new process of parliamentary elections. taking into consideration the population, we will take more time and the police imperatives which is different than their

status before the 25th of january. the youth are suspicious or lack in confidence about that. as a result, the president decided to suspend the parliament terry -- parliamentary elections. this will take about three weeks before being presented to both houses of the parliament. the constitutional amendments require 70 days. in order to be regularly process. this requires 70 days, three weeks. at this point in time, what is

more important, it includes certain restrictions on candidacy and the desire to be initiated on the floor for the amendments taken into consideration. will we -- should we ease these limits? we should take into consideration, who is going to lead egypt and take the leadership of egypt in the coming six years? not from the personality perspective, but who is the rep. here is what is of more concern. this is anti islamic along with

the other parties. we will meet an agreement on the requirement of candidacy. this particular issue was put to examination over the past month. many objections were raised. there is no doubt that there must be certain requirements and qualifications and certain limits in relation to article 76 of the constitution. all of the people will feel assured that egypt will be the lead by the proper leader. this will take place within what was initiated to date within the opposition later. these negotiations, until we

preach a consensus on the amendments, will consume some time. the president will also feel that any other arguments in the constitution can be amended. this is if we have no objections that amendments be incorporated into the constitution as long tested is acceptable to the egyptian people. however, this process is restrained by the time limits until the power transitions. this is the big problem, time limits, which are running thin and short, in order to carry out the political force. in order to reinforce what you said, in terms of the constitutional amendments,

after 77, it does not necessarily mean that these will not be the final and only amendments to the constitution. these are the proposed ones in order to carry up this transitional power. the answer is definitely yes. we are now waiting for an order to carry out the constitutional amendments acceptable within the to exit theriod current crisis. this is the objective. if any further amendments can be carried out, the entire constitution could be redrafted. we have a president in office utley -- leaving for the coming six years. at that time, we will have enough time to carry on further

amendments within our constitution if required. we will examine this through the mutual dialogue. there is no doubt that the judiciary will have their say in this. i was instructed by the president to engage in the dialogue. i took all of the political parties and invited them. some responded. others will later respond to engage in dialogue. i believe they requested for some time to deliberate and they will respond shortly. what is more important that i am meeting with the representatives of the youth who sparked this big movement in egypt.

the final framework was that we've laid down a plan. we should reach a conclusion to assign committee is to address each issue. then find out the outcomes of the recommendations and decisions by these committees to be put into implementation. what is more important is to abide by the time limit made by the president in order to carry out these amendments. the second issue is that the president in his address stated, those who caused this crisis

must be held accountable and penalized. the government is required to carry out the necessary investigations to establish who is behind this crisis. he who will be found accused to be perpetrating these acts will be held accountable and penalized. the first dialectician, or the opposition party present? the answer, always the opposition parties were present except for the two parties that requested further time. i believe that we will be meeting very shortly. maybe tomorrow or on saturday.

other political leaders who will be meeting with us later on. we will be meeting with all of the political leaders. who is the representative of the youth? >> many of the youth without any particular leadership. they all have one goal. that is what the president had responded to. is the muslim brotherhood contacted? >> yes. they were contacted and invited. i believe it was in their interest to attend. >> they are hesitant.

if debuts this opportunity, i believe it is a very precious opportunity for the muslim brotherhood. >> do you have much fear of today's meeting? to what degree do you feel contradictions? >> there is no contradiction. all agree that the roadmap plan laid down by mubarak for the constitution and for the investigation on those behind the crisis, it is acceptable. they also proposed some concessions on how these issues be addressed and remedied. some required that the entire constitution be redrafted and the parliament be resolved. they are all convinced that the time is running short. i would hope that the other

political parties will be able to arrive at consensus in order to lay down the implementation. do you have a specific time limit or a city for the answer? it is not me to decide the ceiling. the time limit is already in place. in order to amend the constitution, we need 70 days. in order to carry out amendments to the parliament, i need 21 days. also, i need 5-10 days to end the current dialogue so that i can arrive at the conclusion for all of these issues. this would be in order to provide the candidates for

presidency. do not forget that we need time for candidates to present or to run for the election. i need a schedule to be calculated by the minute. the ongoing dialogue should be concluded within 5-10 days at the maximum. if would lose time, we would not be able to carry out these amendments. do you think that the political parties are aware of this? >> all of them are aware that we should carry this out by next week at the max mom. ties garding the possibility i about those behind the state of chaos on both sides, and the incidence in tahrir square of last night and this morning,

would this apply to those who perpetrated and orchestrated the chaos? >> definitely. we should examine this issue. we believe in this. we should find out who was pulling the strings. they will be strictly penalized. citizens and the youth took to the streets. they were everywhere suppressing be views. they also wanted to suppress the love to the president and the country. these were all forms of suppression in different forms. we were surprised. these are heading to the highest square.

we should realize and we will identify who mobilize them and why they were engaged in fighting and why clashes were not put to an end swiftly. those who we believe to be a victim of this, they came on horseback, etc. we will find out who pushed them towards the square. we believe that the pro-mubarak demonstrations and the supporters of hosni mubarak and those calling to an end, they were coming individually. what was the motive? they were spreading in other

areas of cairo and alexandria. no one was instructed or asked to push them towards tahrir square. we will identify who was behind all of this and they will be strictly and swiftly paralyzed. definitely, we will inform the people. they created a state of sedition and cause the proposals by the president to be wasted. >> why have these two sides not been separated? >> this will not be this close. this will be established by the investigation. we will find out who pushed those people to the square and why they were engaged in clashes. were there any malicious -- militias infiltrating between them and who is orchestrating

the entire act? the young youth respect the rally. they should understand that we have responded to all of their demands within the time limit available. >> reports in the square suggest that the demonstrators are above certain political parties and foreigners. there are other operations. to which degree have we been the egyptian security imperative been penetrated so that all of these foreigners template in our area? i cannot say that this is a penetration.

when there are massive demonstrations, no one can control or separate the honest from the dishonest. the infiltration among the massive rallies of youth, there are certain groups. there are also foreigners and egyptians carrying their own agendas. the taking advantage of and the manipulation of the over enthusiasm of the youth to divert them and direct them to certain acts serving their agendas. we care for and loved the young youth. there could have been many foreign agendas. this is for other political parties. agendas for businessmen being

carried out on the field. they might all intertwined and cause the horrible things and we have. we are investigating who was pulling the strings and who was behind these acts. very shortly, we will find out the parameters of this conspiracy. there is no doubt, i will instruct the security to identify and arrest those responsible, to hold them accountable. this will be disclosed to all of the mass media. >> not very far of this is the nature of the role to be undertaken by the armed forces. will they intervened in the clashes that took place in tahrir square? >> the armed forces were deployed to safeguard and

protect all of the people. to safeguard the constitution of egypt. it is the armed forces that are protecting the homeland. currently, the armed forces are carrying out a new role. which is to implement the curfew, protect civilians. again, it is thugs and outlaws. they are discharging some of the duties of the police. the lack of capabilities and the absence of police personnel. the armed forces are sold -- shouldering huge burdens to protect the constitution. at the same time, to carry up the police duties, which were not carried out by them before. what took place last night in

tahrir square came as a result of the fact that the armed forces are used to the fact that they should not intervene or block demonstrator so much -- so long as they are peacefully demonstrating. after that, they started to search those coming in or part of the square. there was no vision or anticipation the clashes would take place. on the other hand, those supporting mubarak, and when they headed to tahrir square, clashes erupted. who sparked them, the clashes? who is responsible, we will identify. at that point, the army's will start to intervene. the armed forces managed to

separate both sides. who pushed supporters of mubarak to head to the square? we will find out. >> most of the youth present at the moment on the 25th of january movement. others are kerry and other political agendas, -- others are carrying other political agendas. to which degree you will have tolerance? >> answer -- i hope that the youth will receive my message that the state is genuine. and that there is no contradiction among the institutions of the state.

the state wants to implement the demands of the youth. to continue the demonstrations is nothing but further destruction of the state. we should not say that the situation may be manipulated by others to carry out their own agenda. the daily economic losses cannot be calculated. it is estimated that each sector within the state from tourism to commerce, all of the state resources are incurring losses to almost one-third. i say that 1 million tourists

left egypt over the last nine days. 110,000 tourists were leaving egypt every day. 1 million tourists in nine days is a huge loss. you can i imagine the losses within the past nine days. $1 billion. all the in the tourism sector. if we continue with this, we will not be demanding reform. >> after conveying the question of the youths, who will be taking to the streets on friday it? with two key demands. first, they are concerned that they lack confidence in the state. the state will not be committed to the statement that once the dust has settled, everything

will go back as was. what is your reaction to that? >> i served personally with president mubarak for years. i know him. he is an honest man. he is a man of his word. when he speaks, he acts. the statements made by president mubarak in his last address, to implement the reforms, will be carried out by the lesser. the youth must have confidence in the state. egypt is a robust state. it is the largest in the region. it should restore its position as the leading state in the region. the youths must know that all of their demands have been

responded to. their continued rallying and demonstrating, it will not be the youth with a lack of confidence in the state, but to implement other agendas. >> the other concern among the youth was the idea of stepping down. that is why tomorrow they will demonstrate. how do you respond? >> and the demands raised by the use -- youth were responded to or answered. the issue of stepping down is an alien philosophy to be ideal of the people. i do not think this is the characteristics of the egyptian people. we all respected father and the leader, hosni mubarak and what

he has offered the country over the last 30 years and the service he rendered to the homeland from the army forces. to step down will be natural. he stated that he will not run the coming election. none of his family has claimed that and others will be running the elections. the president will not be running the election nor will his son. the remaining term will be the time in which the state will organize and implement the reforms until the power has transitioned. to step down will be a call to chaos. there is no state without a leader or president. we cannot tolerate this.

>> we spoke about four and agendas. -- foreign agendas. certain states are closely watching the egyptian affair. the tone was to fully respond to the demands raised by the youth. how do you explain? >> egypt is a big stake. very significant and important in the middle east. it is important for the regional peace. it is a focal state. all of the world states are interested in stability in egypt. they are also concerned that egypt will continue to play its effective role. the international concern about the state of affairs are all in

the direction that egypt should restore its stability in order to shoulder this. however, there are certain forces were certain techniques for certain matters in which all other foreign states are intervening in our domestic affairs by way of certain releases or statements, which will have a negative impact on our relations with them. it is very surprising to hear them intervening in our domestic affairs. we can listen to their advice or suggestions, but we cannot tolerate those to be dictated to us from the outside. meanwhile, we thank all of the friendly states who offered to

provide assistance to egypt in this crisis. however, i blame some friendly states who are hosting, non- friendly tv stations, who charge the youth against the state. they pinpointed and highlighted the faults with some false reporting and exaggerations'. i feel sad for these tv stations which are operating from friendly states. we should not have created this sentiment. >> the issue of lack of confidence resulted from the disappointment that resulted from the new government cabinet. it is a two-part question.

how the new cabinet was formed and under what circumstances the second party and the existing ministers and cabinets will remain in office the matter what? >> this cabinet was formed in emergency circumstances in a very short, limited time. the selection of ministers was based on the fact that they were all specialized in their respective domains. the other ministers are also serving at the same time, the people were angry toward certain businessmen serving in the cabinet. that is why we ended their membership. at any stage, when a new minister or president is

elected, his plans and policies should be put to the test. the government will remain functioning until the end of the term of the president. >> the president also addressed in his speech that those behing the recent incidents who took advantage of the movement of the youth to turn it into violence and clashes will be held accountable. how will they be held accountable? >> let's be clear. all who made mistakes will be penalized. the police personnel, in absolute integrity and honesty

towards the people on the 25th of january. when clashes erupted between the olice, they hadlice to defend themselves. the stampede towards the police personnel resulted in chaos. the police department had instructions not to fire at live ammunition towards the demonstrators. they had to retreat. this does not necessarily mean that they're not supposed to redeploy. >> the state of chaos, which seemed to be organized, storming prisons, etc. >> these are the outside forces and the militias serving

outside agendas to targeted police headquarters and prisons to release the inmates in order to create chaos. this was preplanned and pre designed and well-organized. they managed to implement their agendas. >> do you feel like the state of egypt has shaken? >> egypt has not been shaken. it is a robust states. it is capable of defending its people. i call on the youth to continue to love your country. go back home. leave the officials to respond to your demands in order to save time. we should not lose time. we should discharge our duty as

officials towards its people. >> is the state with its security and military forces capable of safeguarding the egyptian citizens? >> definitely, we have the capabilities for safeguarding and the defense. we have not exhausted our capabilities. we still have our abilities and capabilities. the police will redeploy its and discharge their duties. it will take another month in order to reach the maximum capacity before january 25. >> what is your position towards those detained over the past few days? >> we call on the -- all of the inmates escaped to go back to prisons. the police and security personnel are exerting maximum efforts to rearrest them.

this will create a future problem. the escaped inmates will have a responsibility as they will cause chaos and intimidate the people. what has happened it was a result of the intimidation by the criminal acts perpetrated by the our laws escaped inmates. it was natural for the people to form groups. this phenomenon must come to an end. this will come to an end swiftly after the demonstrations and. >> how about the detained youth? >> all of the youths demonstrated during these incidents unless they committed a crime will be released. >> if your vice-president ask

you to address the nation on the eve of friday when everybody intends to march tomorrow, what is your message to the youth of egypt? and the youth who sparked this movement? >> my message to the youth is that we thank you for what you did. you were the spark that ignited reform in thisth time ine state has responded to all of the demands raised. we want you to give an opportunity to the state to shoulder its responsibility. do not succumb to the rumors and the satellite tv stations surrounding you in your country. your families everywhere are suffering a shortage in materials and intimidation. give an opportunity to the state

to protect your fathers and household. give the state and opportunity to render its services to you. please disburse and and the demonstrations. your demands are responded to and answered. we thank you -- >> we thank you, mr. vice president and ladies and gentlemen. >> that was egypt's new vice president. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> over the next few hours, analysis of egypt and what it might mean for the rest of the middle east. in a little bit more than an hour, and journalist at the front line club will discuss how the unrest that began in tunisia could affect the wider region. there will be a series by bob schieffer and hosted by the center for strategic and international studies.

>> on washington journal bang -- ""washington journal" tomorrow morning, we will have the latest on egypt. a new mexico democrat will take your questions about energy policy and the oil markets and we will focus on jobs and with an economist from georgetown university. ""washington journal" is live on c-span every day. a couple of live events to tell you about tomorrow. they examine the effect that commercial real estate losses could have on banks stability. they have heard from representatives at the fdic and the federal reserve. that is at 10:00 a.m. eastern. tomorrow, former alaska gov. sarah palin speaks to a young americans of that in santa barbara, marking the 100th

anniversary of the birth of ronald reagan. >> sunday on "in-depth" and author and the founder of american spectator magazine has written over half a dozen books include and "boy clinton, " and his latest, "after the hangover: the road to recovery." >> said this weekend on c-span 3, we will visit the old naval observatory that operated from 1834-1893. and we will have the fugitive slave law and how it inadvertently resulted in the expansion of the underground railroad.

experience american history tv on c-span 3, all weekend, every weekend. for a complete schedule online, 02 c-span.org/history. >> next, foreign-policy and national-security experts on how the unrest in the middle east is felt around the middle east. from the brookings admit -- brookings institution, and this is a little bit more than an hour. >> welcome to another session of "meet the press" at brookings with david gregory. we bring this to you together with the center. the director was with us this morning on the panel as well.

he is a expert on the u.s. national security and military affairs. he has been the director of persian gulf affairs for the national security council. he is the author of "path out of the desert: the grand strategy for america in the middle east." we are very glad to welcome to "meet the press" at brookings, the associate dean at the school for our services at georgetown university. she was for a decade the executive director of freedom house. he is a professor of political science and international studies at mcdaniel college. he is an expert on the politics of north africa. he has just completed a policy analysis tape which you can find

on our website. the perils of complete liberalization, about the challenges of politics in north africa. on the big screen or the small screen we see someone who will join the discussion. he is the director of research at the brookings center theqatar, an egyptian by nationality who focuses on islamic political parties. . .

with some kind of way ahead for the region and for the united states. >> thank you, martin. -- we're in a breaking news

situation. it doesn't get any more exciting or vital to have a conversation like this to be surrounded by such expertise when there is a great deal of confusion on what's happening on the ground. that's where i want to begin. what's happening, given how much uncertainty. let me stay with martin and we'll have everybody test this initially. what's happening? what do we make of this state of confusion? >> we're not exactly sure what's happening? cairo is now kind of recovering from the battles of the last 24 hours. the army seems to have moved into position between the competing camps of demonstrators going from mubarak, those saying it is enough and supporting it. the prime minister has just apologized for the actions

yesterday but the big questions, what will the army do and particularly what will the army do tomorrow? friday is a time when everybody will be coming out to the mosques to pray and coming out to the streets demonstrate. one can assume that will happen across egypt and not just in cairo. now the question is does mubarak have the strooge in effect stay in power and oversee a transition to his people? >> let me pick up on that point, shad sharksd who is in doha, let me go to you on this question. the end game here for mubarak, how do you read him? -- shadi hamid, who is in doha. how do you read him? >> he doesn't want to leave power. he is planning on staying until september when the elections

will be held. the protesters are clear about what their single overarching demand is for mubarak to step down and not in several months but immediately. i think yesterday what we saw is the official start over the counterrevolution. i think people caught caught up with the euphoria of the first few days and thought this is an effective strong regime. what we have seen yesterday was a concerted effort. i think we saw sniftmoot yesterday to previous days where we saw in some cases over a million protesters. >> >> shadi can talk about the muslim brotherhood as well and other opposition groups who have been somewhat silent here. elbaradei said nobody is sitting down for conversations with the

mubarak regime until he actually leaves power. talk about where protesters are. they understand if they are not in the streets forcing the issue, they lose a lot of momentum. >> absolutely. one thing the protesters have going for them is the international media spotlight on them. mubarak doesn't want to leave power. they are being constrained by the international media attention on them and that's why it is critical that the protesters are able to keep the media with them. it is why you have seen the counterrevolutionary forces, the pro government forces trying to beat up journalists to try to shut down coverage of the square. once the media spotlight is gone, their freedom of action is going to be greatly enhanced. >> this is not napping a vacuum. this has been a broader movement until this point. what is happening beyond what

we're seing in cairo? >> sure. everybody is watching. the autocrats from algeria to yemen. and elsewhere are rooting for mubarak because this is the scenario that we're seeing unfold in egypt, that's what we expected to unfold in tunisia but never did. the surprise for the people and for other autocrats is how quickly that regime crumbled. when he left tune ease yarks he called his counterparts in algeria. he was stunned. he said an algerian president would never flee and this is a regime that was willing to fight

and to take the country into a catastrophic civil war that cast -- cost 200,000 people. that's what we're looking at. so the people, as martin said, fascinating from morocco to algeria. they are looking at how it is going to move. that's where we are. from morocco to where i'm from, algeria, everybody is watching the reaction, also the united states. >> jennifer, i want to bring you into this. talk about a freedom movement that is around the region. the king of jordan dissolves his cabinet. the leader of yemen saying he will walk out of power later on in the year. mubarak himself saying he will be gone by september even though they are calling on him to leave

now. this is quite an effect. >> well, it certainly is unprecedented. egypt is a region considered one of the most oppressed in the world. there have been some signs of movements forward, especially, i would say, on the part of civic groups and independent media, satellite and bloggers, really trying to open things up, even in repressive countries. so -- and so i'm rooting for them. i think that -- that this tells everybody that said that middle east is not capable, does not really want freedom. there is obviously a constituency out there. it is too soon to tell where it is going to go. there is many, many steps. there is a long road ahead in terms of getting from protests on the streets a democrat system

in place. >> i want to talk about the u.s. response but i want to go quickly back to shadi. one piece of this, we're talking a lot about it in this country, shadi, is the muslim brotherhood. where are they? were they caught flat footed? are they poised to become a major threat here? >> up until now, the brotherhood has played a limited role. they have not been visible in the protests, but that is by design. they realize if they a prominent role they will trigger fear in the community and particularly in the u.s. they are aware of that. i was just speaking to some muslim brother figures over the phone today. they plan to get more involved. they want to emphasize they don't have any leadership aspirations and are leading their -- lending their support

behind elbaradei as a potential leader. it is interesting to note, though that, the brotherhood has kind of moved and tried to make some public statements to allay some fears so there have been several leaders who said they will abide by the peace treaty. one said that just the other dained another who said we will affirm all past international treaties. the argument can be made how genuine are the brotherhood leaders when they say this? i think it is interesting that they have gone out of their way to make that point the the international media. >> mohamed elbaradei, former head of the iaea. is he electric wolenza or not? >> he might be the leader that

-- there are a lot of historical examples that make us very cautious. there have been lots of good, moderate liberals inserted into a revolutionary system that were swept away. one of the things we ought to think about is the muslim brotherhood, they are the minshoviks of the revolution. a critical element of al qaeda are probably right now if, they haven't already done so thinking this is our moment. this is the revolution we have been trying to create for 30 years in egypt and my guess is like that lenin, they are trying to get these people back to egypt to stir up the situation to seize this revolution. >> was part of the brotherhood

himself, the founding kind of intellectual father of al qaeda. >> they have to not only deal with mubarak but also the extremists. >> i want to come back. this is a fascinating topic. >> it is very interesting to see. even though we do not see the military acting in the square, they are acting on the borders. they are controlling the borders. they are controlling the airport. they just sent more forces into the sinai making suring in comes out or comes in gaza. the silent hand of the military is still there and functioning. >> would you expand on that? its potential, jennifer, you can comments on this as well, for becoming part of the caretaker government. >> this goes to what happened in tunisia. there we saw the army playing a role of the -- an orderly

process of transition could take place. will the military play that role in egypt or will it basically back mubarak and try maintain regime that has given them so many privileges? it is a stretch to imagine that they are going to -- to democrats but that is what we need them to be in order to get out of this crisis in a way that provides for orderly transition to a democratic government. >> what does it mean, jennifer, that they are staying on the sidelines at this point, as these protests unfold? >> well, it is absolutely critical. any past successful civic demonstration has ultimately been about splitting the security forces from the regime and the security forces need to feel that they will not be punished, all of them in a post-transition period and i would stay in the case of egypt,

it is very important to look at the security situation. it is not monolithic. what i thought about the thugs was this was the intelligence services, which are really the kibed kind of cutting edge, really brutal part of the services in egypt asserting themselves. vice president comes from the intelligence community. so there could be a struggle right now internally and the -- the ability of the civic movement to be able to continue to split the military, to continue to keep the army on its side, is going to be very critical and that means they need to stay disciplined. as disciplined as they can, given their size. clearly what was happening yesterday was the ability that the thugs wanted to actually turn this into a chaotic, violent scene that then order

would have to be restored. >> let me get to how president obama is handling this. everybody has a view. start off interpreting where they are and where they have been. >> well, they have been playing catch-up, not surprisingly. a very fast-moving situation. last tuesday this whole thing started. in the ninth day. they have moved from talking about egypt as a stable country and mubarak is not a dictator to saying he has got to go. he has got to go now. so this is a dramatic shift in policy that has taken place, kind of watching it in realtime. and so now, having i think succeeded on two fronts so far, which is to press the military using the leverage of our military assistance and the context we have with the -- and on the other hand, getting mubarak to say that he won't stand again but they fell short. what they needed him to say is

i'm going now. i'm handing over to suleiman and suleiman would then be the one to oversee the transition. mubarak has no credibility for the transition. the administration gets high marks for avoiding bloodshed so far but only b-minus in interpret s of getting what had to be done, which is -- in terms of getting what had to be done, mubarak to leave now. >> when the president spoke to mubarak and said it is time, that he would get the message and leave? >> well knowing what we know about mubarak, i don't think that should have been that expectation. he is a survivor, if nothing else. it is hard to envision him stepping down voluntarily. i think, though, if we look at the obama administration's statements, they are definitely hedging their bets and i think if we look over the course of the past week, they have been been behind the curve.

yes, their tone has gotten a little bit more tough. with the mubarak regime, they always seem to be reacting to events, rather than shaping them. i think a lot of people misinterpreted the word order transition, the famous statement that there should be an orderly transition. that doesn't mean that mubarak has to step down immediately. a transition could mean a variety of things including laying down a procedure over the next six to seven months leading up to the presidential elections and again to emphasize what the protesters wanted was not mubarak to not run again, they wanted him to leave immediately. so in that sense there is a big gap between what the obama administration has been saying and egyptian protesters want and i think there is widespread disappointment now in tahrir square about the obama administration's response. they are questioning where is

the u.s.? where is the international community? >> is that realistic? does the united states have a responsibility to look at events and think about how that transformation actually occurs? >> well, let's start -- the united states misunderstood the whole region and the debate really what was going on. ken wrote a terrific book about this situation two years ago warning the navings we have really entered into a prerevolutionary mode. the storm is coming. it is only a matter of time. we only need a galvanizing event for everything to explode. so yes, civil society, the public from what i hear in morocco and algeria, they are waiting for the united states to rethink its strategy and waiting for the united states to show some leadership. obviously the obama administration i think must be from my view congratulated for this evolution we have seen

talking from stability, orderly transition and then we want to transition now. i think from an american standpoint, the nightmare scenario is where the standoff persists. we all know that there are forces lurging in the shadows waiting to take advantage of the situation. the fear is like in iran, the opposition might radicalize. so that is why i think the united states -- from what i hear, from the streets is that the united states should be more firm, for the simple reason that it has huge leverage over the military and the military finally are the decider in there. so that is what -- >> pick up on this point. you have been in a room in these kinds of situations. what is the calculation going on right now? >> first, let me start with -- very important needs to be

reinforced, which is time -- just a lot of -- continues, very problematic, in particular could cause the disintegration to have military, which as martin pointed out would be disastrous for egypt. it would resulted in chaos. that is one thing administration has to worry about. >> what would cause the military to disintegrate? >> oralizeation. >> a sense that the egyptian people were moving in one direction and the military was movinging into a different direction. this is a draftee army. they come fra the people. having them feel like they are caught in between. for the u.s., there is another sets of situations. on the one hand, it is clear the protesters want mubarak to leave immediately, as shadi said. on the other hand, these kinds of transitions are extraordinaryly difficult to make them turn out well. most revolutions don't turn out

well. one of the most important things here is that you can't have everything all at once, which of course is exactly what the people want. completely understandable. but think about it this way. if the administration calls for elections now, if they are elections now in jipts, it would be the absolute worst thing for egyptian democracy in the long-term. it is a lesson hopefully this administration is going to learn. look at what happened with hamas in 2006 in gaza and iraq in 2004-2005. premature elections before you have political parties that are truly representative, before you have established order, before you have a way of conducting this, before you have a constitution, you will get the worst elements in society. >> this is your area. do you disagree? >> i do. i think that we always wishfully wait for elections to be held in places where everybody is tolerant. all the political parties are formed. the rules are very clear.

this is never the case. elections are going to happen whether we likette or not. in fact, they could be a galvanizing force if they are moved up. i think six months is too little time. i think you should talk about calling elections in three months. doesn't have to happen tomorrow. it is going to take a while. yes, there will be a scramble among political parties to figure out how to compete. there has to be tremendous pressure on the international count in make sure these elections are as free and fair as possible, which they have not been in many years. i think the obama administration needs to turn back the clock a little bit to look at the performance of the obama administration. there was a very, very stupid decision in the the obama administration made right off the bat to cut off steens civil society groups, assistance that had been started turned bush administration and that was a -- it was basically so that they could get the relationship back on track. there was a decision made.

that ail yentsated a lot of -- alienated a lot of civil society groups. they felt that the obama administration, even though they were brought in a democratic process, was actually turning their backs on the civil society. there is a lot to make up for, i think with n the united states with the people of egypt. >> the problem i have with your prescription here is that mubarak has so effectively suppressed the political parties at the center of the secular center and allowed the muslim brotherhood to organize. they have an infrastructure. that secretary lar parties do not. you bring up the elections to three months from now then you're basically handing the election to the muslim brotherhood. is that the outcome you want? >> i don't think that is a -- first of all, i think the role of civic and youth movements in

forcing political parties to get their act together should not be underestimated. that was certainly the case in serbia and ukraine. the political parties could continue to factize and be there. i think albare day is not a charismatic figure but people might be willing to unify around him. he is not particularly frightening to the muslim world. i think they would want to be a part of a coalition government and then work towards it. >> can you comments on an aspect of this? i have talked to former diplomats and former administration figures who say some of this fear of the brotherhood taking over the islamist nature of this would not necessarily take root in egypt the way it might have in other countries and further mr., some of the concerns, martin -- furthermore, martin mentioned this, going back to iran and the

shaw. we're in a different place. -- the shah. what is your perspective? >> i don't think welcome compare with it iran today. it has committed toiths a democratic process. the brotherhood of yesterday is not the brotherhood of today. yes, there are things that we as americans won't be comfortable with ins of their positions, women's rights and minority rights but i think we have to recognize that they are not extremists in saying iran or elsewhere, in terms of what their objectives are here, they are not going to try to win an election, even if they could. some purposely lose elections even if they run in slates. jordan, egypt, bahrain, kuwait, they never run more than 50% of the total districts or the total seats. why? because they are again aware that this would either provoke the regime or provoke the

international community. they do remember what happened in algeria. they remember 2006 with hamas. so there is a certain degree of pragmatism here about what they are willing to do. i'll just say one more thing on that. the brotherhood's focus now is going to be rebilling their organization. they have been repress increasingly the last seven years. thepped to get their message out. they are not interested in power just yet. maybe down the road they will be more. i think they have a more specific focus in the short run. >> let me -- i'm going to bring back couple of realtime items. first of all, martin, israel. just describe what's happening there, the level of anxiety. we've heard very little from prime minister netanyahu. >> believe it or not, today, in israel, they are totally preoccupied with a fight between the defense minister and the

chief of staff about who is going to take over as chief of staff. so chi vow burning but they are having a little argument about who is going to be in what chair, believe it or not. -- cairo is burning right now. they are deeply concerned about what this means. for the egypt/israel peace treaty, for the monostrategic alliance that has been built up over 20 years, with common enemies, whether it is al qaeda, extremist palestinian groups, in particular hamas in gaza and of course iran. and if mubarak is leaving, they are entering into a whole new world, which can be highly problematic for them. we could be seeing -- i don't think so by the way, but from their point of view, they are very concerned that this will be the unraveling of the whole

peace process, the israel peace treaty that will give jordan and wonder what will happen there as well. so i think feel that they cannot influence events, horrified that the obama administration's has kind of given up on mubarak and how will they behave toward jordan or israel when it comes to the bottom line, will the united states be with israel when it is in trouble? >> i want to ask the question that my team and i are asking as we think about our program on sunday, which will be dedicated in large measure to the story, which is what are some of the scenarios we're looking at? we have a long-term scenario, which is do we stay at this sort of impasse until september? what would cause mubarak to leave in the next two days? what do you think about in terms

of media? the white house is watching as well. >> sure, i think that obviously, again, it is a revolution and revolutions are inherently unpredictable. we can look to all kinds of different revolutions for guidance. one responsibility a continued standoff for some period of time. history suggests that it won't be forever. other force also come in and start to pull things, proba neg again, the army could start to unravel. the moderate opposition could start to unravel. they could become radicalized. you could see it moving into a chaotic situation like iran. it was not clear exactly who was going to be in charge and there was a fight among the different opposition groups who was going to be in charge. i think it is one that a lot ofnologist europe and the united states and the region would like to see, mubarak being moved offcenter but the army stepping in with suleiman or some other transitional figure and

effectively playing the role of the old turkish military. an orderly troigs the democracy. that is the scenario that many people in washington would like to see happen. the situation is getting completely out of hand and they need to step in and crack down. we should not rule that out. >> the u.s. government has been concerned about some kind of shock as a result of all of this. where do we stand? >> again, if in thing, oil barrel is $90 and $100 in london and if this thing is protracted, we can expect that to go even up with consequences for this fragile recession, obviously. just for the scenarios. there is the tunisia scenario

and nobody knows where it is going. the military is playing, i think, an important role and i think we should expect that, probably that scenario to unfold in egypt as well. as for the -- for izzrailt, i don't think we should -- look, israel or the united states, i think they have to adjust to a new environment. this is a new environment. i don't think whoever is in charge would dismantle the peace treaty with israel, but there is going to be, you know, a new relationship. >> all right. i want to get to some questions here and i'll ask everybody to be pointed and brief in their questions. we're going to try and do that in our responses as well so we can keep this conversation going. as we get ready to do that both here and doha, let me get a

quick comment from you, shadi, if i may, implications on oil prices. what is your take from there? >> well, oil prices have gone up significantly, along with a whole list of economic consequences. i mean, this is going to have a devastating effect on the regional economy. it already has and we're talking about stock market crashes that we haven't seen really in decades in terms of egypt's stock market, saudi arabia's stock market, so there really is a panic here in terms of the economic situation. the real swoir that if these protests continues indefinitely, there isn't more reassurance about stability in egypt and the broader region, we're going to see a continued decline in the regional economy. that will of course have an effect on the u.s. economy. >> go ahead, please. >> $100 a barrel oil for the iranians does a lot to take down the pain of the sanctions that

we're putting on them. so they must be sitting there rubbing their hands with glee at the moment. >> talk about iran. that has not coming up >> i was hoping he was going to get to that. the iranians don't see this the way that we do. we see this as an oppressed people rising up against corrupt governments. to us it looks like iran. iran is looking at this as an eants american movement. they think this is playing to their advantage. they see mubarak as the most anti-iranian going down. i think they feel they are very much advantaged, add to that martin's point about oil prices. one of the things we have to worry about, to what extent is it to their strong stoke the flames? i'll comboom to my lenin

analogy. we have seen iran and al qaeda cooperate in the past. we have to be very attune to it right now. the potential for both of these groups to see it in their interest to make the situation in egypt even worse. >> i would say that the iranian government is not impervious to public pressure having just dealt with the green revolution. in fact, i thought it was interesting they stept up the repression of picking up people, even more people, executing some people. so they are also not -- they are worried internally too, that this might reignite an opposition movement which they had successfully for now repressed. >> let's get to our audience. we'll tart in the back. yes, young -- we'll start in the back. yes, young lady. >> hello. i'm -- are we meant to state our names? >> sure.

>> haley cook with the business association. so my question is what do events in egypt and tunisia mean for libya? >> anyone? >> well, i mean, we heard what qaddafi said. how the rhetoric has evolved from support and lecturing the tunisia people and warning. he becomes a champion, as he said, of the people. definitely, he is worried. he has been in power for decades and he is really concerned. obviously libyan society, which has different social conditions. its make-up differs from that of algeria and tunisia.

that does not give solace to qaddafi. so yes, he is as worried as everybody in that region, including obviously morocco. >> yes, sir, in the back? >> thank you. joe bosco with csis. i wanted to ask a question beyond the region, obviously there are governments around the world that are watching this situation. particularly the one in beijing, which the last time saw a region swept with revolution was in the 1980's and that resulted in china, tienemen square. censoring the news from egypt except when the violence started to emerge, they are broadcasting that. would you comment on the situation? >> just quickly. i think you have captured the

answer in the question. one thing that i understand has happened is that the chinese have told mubarak, hang in there. we have got your back. not surprise glirks the russian government has done the same. >> because autocrats stick together. >> we ve a question here from our audience. thank you very much. what does this change mean for the u.s. in terms of the future balance of power in the region? the u.s. recently lost lebanon, probably tunisia and now egypt. >> obviously the government is concerned about who would take mubarak's place. >> this is a critical situation. i would like to start with a point that jennifer made before. the obama administration came out of the gate and gave a

wonderful speech in cairo and did nothing about it. in fact, turned their back on the efforts of political and economic social reform. the way the united states needs to come out of it is to recognize that mistake and realize that is the way the united states is going to have to redefine its role in the future. the united states needs to be an engine of change to enable reform, hopefully not as explosively as it has happened in egypt. hopefully convince all the allies in this region, they too need to move down this path. >> there is a big conversation about the bush administration, the freedom agenda, president bush's second inaugural, pushing specifically on egypt's door and then stepping back. what is more important that there was a -- the likes of the administration talking about freedom was coming or the disappointment associated with not continuing to push? >> i actually think that the opening in the first -- the market that the middle east was

put -- the fact that the middle east was put on the political reform agenda. no other administration had ever thought of human rights and democracy in the middle east. it was off the table. even when there was great disappointment when the bush administration eased back after the hamas, which i think is a completely different situation and frankly, the elections in egypt where the muslim brotherhood had a relatively strong showing, i thought that was a mistake, but i think that people then were reenergized in looking to the fwurings really sort of recommit themselves to reform, and this decision, even before the cairo speech to cut off all assistance, was terrible. yes, we need to get back on the track. does it need to be with the second inaugural with that kind of language? no. but it needs to be real. words need to be followed by real actions and that is not what this administration has

done so far in democracy and human rights? >> martin, do you have a single digitly different take in defense of what the administration has done? >> this is somewhat of a personal policy for me in in the 1990's in the clinton administration baltz of power was all that i thought wu important here, stability was critically important. barack at that point -- mubarak at that point was facing a violent extremist movement. we have to get with it. the tide of history is moving in a very clear direction, and if we wring our hands and say the balance of power, we have to worry about stability, no, we have to get on the side of the people who are demanding freedom, because that is what we believe in above all. then the question is how do we get -- in that context protect our interests? that is the critical question. you know, the coing jordan, another ally of the united

states, has said he wantingses rapt rapid political reform. we have to help him move on that front. we have got to do the same thing with all of the autocratic leaders. we have to get behind them at least verbally. this is going to create an opportunity for us to lead a dramatic change towards democracy in this part of the world. >> it is amazing that we can have conversations ip, kind of fundamental conversations about the middle east and we almost take it for granted, oh, well, jordan, there is no democracy. there are certain reforms that are going to take place now. it seems almost obscene that you can ignore the elephant in the room but it is a kingdom. let's get back to questions here.

sorry? i'm sorry. shadi, you wanted to make a point? go ahead. >> sure. i just wanted to add to martin's point. i think there is a real danger here that the obama administration will be remembered as resisting change and that is a big danger. let's say hypothetically this spreads throughout the region and we do see changes and see autocrats stepping down. we the last thing we want is for these leaders of these countries to think we were not on their side. it is still not too late. if the obama administration gets ahead of this, we know that u.s. credibility is very low under obama. favorability is very low throughout middle east. this is a chance for us to regain influence and to understand how the region is changing and reorient fundamentally hour foreign policy. a lot of people are talking about a fundamental reorientation after 9/11.

we didn't actually do that. now i think is a chance to take that post 9/11 rhetoric and back to reality. >> back to our questions. here, yes. >> i'm not so sure how -- being called a bolshevik. my question is considering that mubarak has been the shepherd basically of -- what does it do to the future of this process considering that the region has been -- authority for what is going on in egypt? >> the palestinian leadership in the west bank has relied on egypt for political cover, particularly for the effort to engage in negotiations with israel to try and resolve palestinian conflict with israel in that way. and they therefore are feeling,

i think, somewhat like israel, a little naked at the moment and are not able to do anything about this circumstance. but what is interesting, the two elements that are fueling the revolt here, lack of political freedom and lack of economic opportunity, at least on the economic opportunity front, west bank palestinians are doing quite well today and so they don't have the same unhappiness about their economic circumstances and taking actionsginess a key figure and putting him under investigation and signaling that he is going to take corruption and anti-corruption measures seriously. they don't have, it seems a problem like many of the other arab autocrats have at the moment. what does it mean for the israeli-palestinian

negotiations? they were already dead in the water. this is not going to revive them. it is going to cause a distraction. nobody imagines by solving the palestinian problem, you're going to be able to deal with what's happening in egypt. most people don't believe that. having said that, while the focus is everywhere else, it would be a hovel a good time for the israelis and palestinians, the palestinian leadership, to actually resolve their differences, take advantage of that everyone is focused on them. there are things that can be done on the ground by israelis, which is withdrawing the army which will give them a sense that something is happening that is positive for them. >> bust through the gates here and put down your own plan? >> i agree completely with tom that this is the moment that the

israelis should find a way to do something to diffuse the palestinian issue before what's happening in the rest of the arab world comes around again, and it inevitably will to focus on the palestinian problem. that's the way that israel gets on the side of history. >> jennifer, i want to ask a question. we'll take a few extra minutes, by the way, if everybody is willing, for additional questions. i wrote down here, what is the spark? what sparked this? how did we get to this moment? in my coverage of washington and the iraq war, i remember, let's put aside the huge debated about w.m.d. and the rest. what happened is after 9/11, the united states grabbed the region by the scruff of the neck, decapitated one of its leaders and basically sent a message that we will change the face of this region and reorients it. shadi just made mention of that.

as chaotic as it was, is there a connection between that and what we're seeing today? >> no. >> you don't buy it? >> i don't buy it. of course everything is connected but egypt has had its own story for a long time. i mean, i first went to egypt in 1985 when there were hopes that mubarak would start opening up then. so, you know, one cannot believe that there have been more crisis in egypt. all of the ingredients have been there. so the spark was really about tunisia and the events there and it was also about wikileaks and that helped tunisia, but it was the sense that if they can do it in tunisia, and tunisia was considered to be absolutely immovable. nobody even talked about politics in tunisia, because the chance of change was so distant. they talked about french

politics there because there was nothing to talk about for tunisia. so for tunisia to go down sparked something that has been building far long time in egypt and actually got people off into the streets. i would say this one point on the internet, the fact that the egyptian government cut off the internet and facebook and cell phone technologies was the worst possible thing they could have done because people had to get out from behind their computers and out of the cafes into the streets. for those that are looking into turning these kind s of communication devices off, they had better think twice. >> what about that? before the notion of speaking to the egyptian quality of a revolution, before the concept of nationalism, we talked about arab nationalism that went beyond these artificial borders that were the creation over the europeans. in this particular case, is there anything to that?

whether it is through direct link to iraq or whether there is this freedom movement that -- >> there is no link obviously between iraq and what we are seeing and certainly not between the president bush agenda and what we are seeing. certainly not the people in the streets. that is a bit laughable. what we are seeing is this is really a revolution about frustrated expectations and we hear about the rise of prices. that's what triggered it. it is only part of the story. we have seen riots before. but for people, you wrote about it, ken, people who live in the region, people who travel to the region, people who speak to the region, in the last few years, we have seen a gap that has become -- a gap between what the people expect and what the state

can deliver. the autocratic stage cannot keep up with people's demands. remember, in 2008, riots broke out. that was a first in tunisiaiaia that's when people started talking, well, maybe something is going on. that in tunisia, we see riots, this revolution didn't start in tunisia, by the way. it started in morocco. that's what i see happening all over the place. >> we mentioned a couple of times. >> the arab states have reached a prerevolutionary state because of economic, political stagnation of the region. what i did in that book is went

back to the old litsch on revolutions and i point out, these wonderful scholars of revolution have been writing about it, it is all in the middle east. it was either going to be a gradual process of reform or a process of revolution. the last point on that, it is also important to keep in mind that the terrorism that we face is born of the exact same problem. the terrorists, the osama bin laden, they are frustrated revolutionaries. they all started to -- tried to start revolutions in their own countries and turned to terrorism when they found they couldn't start the social revolution and they turned to us because they saw us as standing behind the power of the governments. >> there are also anihilists who are also evil. >> those people are always

there. you'll find those people who'll find the frustration and anger and frustration of the people and take it to ridiculous violence. >> let's get back to our questions. >> thanks. garrett mitchell from the mitchell report. i want to try to link two thoughts here. one is the picture of david gregory and martin indyk sitting before that twitter board on sunday and martin making the observation that what you're seeing here is the 21st century revolution mode or revolution. and then to the comment that was made in doha about how this was going to force a fundamental realignment in america on policy. my question is are we talking solely about the middle east?

and arguably south asia? or if we -- if this is a serious suggestion that this is going to force some realignment, fundamental realignment on american foreign policy, is that irrespective of geography? is what is being proposed here or suggested here that america is going to have to narrow the gap between its values and its interests in dealing with countries not only in the middle east and south asia, but elsewhere. >> jennifer? >> i hope so. [laughter] yes. as a democracy and human rights advocate, we would hope that would be the case. but -- and each administration i think has sort of taken this on and grappled with it and in certain cases they have stepped back. i think what you have seen from the obama administration is they have tried engagement with a

number of large authoritarian countries and they haven't gotten a lot done. they have tried with russia and i know there have been some gains with china. you also -- in iran, they started with engagement, north korea, they have tried a lot and are finding that engagement is not bringing results on the national security side and it is at tremendous expense to our values so they are going to have to realign themselves, whether it will be the gap between our values and our interests really does change. probably not across the board but i think it might in some cases. i hope it does. >> we're ready for another question in doha but charlie, i want you to comment -- shadi, i want you to comments on this. this is somehow the opening for

an islamist political movement to take root in egypt and beyond and the more extreme cases, it has been talked about a return to the califate. what is factor or fiction? >> none of these -- talking about that, i think some of these fears are a little bit exaggerated. there are concerns about the brotherhood's position on the peace treaty and counterterrorism, cooperation with the u.s. the u.s. does have national security interests that will be affected by this. that is why i think the way to address that is to engage with opposition groups before they come to power rather than afterwards when it is too late. you don't have leverage with them afterthey are in power. we have leverage with them now. that's why i think dialogue has to start. we should have started several years ago. we had that conversation with the brotherhood and told them

this is a red line or that's a red line and there was an exchange of views. so i think we're a little bit late in game but i think it is time to start now in reaching out. >> the other question from doha? turn on your mic. >> can you please comment on the silence of the leaders and what country do you think will be next, if any? >> goodness. i don't see what they can say. i mean, we have seen utter silence again from morocco to algeria. only libya's leader, qaddafi came out and supported that. obviously, all of a them are nervous. all arab autocrats. that explains obviously why they

are silent. they don't like what they are seeing and they are terrified. what happens if mubarak does actually leave or fall? remember, tunisia was just the spark or the trigger, but as one scholar put it, egypt is really the prize, because the way egypt goes, the way the arab world will go, as we have seen it in the 1950's with the arab nationals and the rise of political islam, so that is why -- there is nothing to say. are you going to stand with the people? the same demands? your people have the same demands as what we're seing in egypt. so they are just wait and see and praying that mubarak is here and will wait until september and take it from there. >> so many countries who play an important role diplomatically,

strategicically, and i think about where you're sitting and i think about persian gulf countries, but who are autocratic. what must they be thinking right now? >> well, i mean, if i was an official in any of these countries i would be pacing in my room right now wondering what to do. >> your big palacial room. >> one thing is if they see the u.s. putting pressure on mubarak, they might start to wonder if they will be next. they can starts to initiate reforms rather than wait for their own revolution. i think it also makes us all realize, or them realize, that supporting western interests isn't going to be enough. that they have to go beyond that and really address the demands of their people.

there is a widespread perception in the arab world that these leaders are part of the western orbit and that is the main concern and people are not provided for and democracy is not a consideration. that's what i would say on that. >> we haven't talked about syria. >> i thought about that. >> the point here is that nobody has really noticed, this is a sunni revolution. it is an egyptian revolution obviously but for sunnis in syria, they have suffered under the brutal hand of the regime and they are coming out on the streets tomorrow. we'll see exactly where that goes. it may not go very far, but the regime itself, is a fairly hollow regime. it has the ability to break heads. we sauna in this 1970's.