[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] you can e-mail us and if you want to send us a tweet. the event last night which you may have seen late last night that the young america's foundation in which sara palin spoke about many topics written up in the papers tate. this is one of the wire services saying here's the quote. she says, you may have seen it last night, but to give you some context. >> i think president reagan

would be so proud of the conservative mivement today because we have never been so engaged and more willing to put up with what it takes in order to serve. so, no, there isn't one replacement for reagan. but there are millions who believe in the great ideas that he espoused. there's a whole army of patriotic davids out there ready to stand up and to speak out in defense of liberty. and these diveeds aren't afraid -- davids aren't afraid to tell golyitesdz don't tread on me. >> you can register your thoughts again if you want to give us a call.

let's go to the phones. port royal, virginia on our republican line. good morning, what do you think? caller: i want to say, is that for the democrat die an fine stine, gave the most wonderful tribute to reagan. and i was very surprised that it sounded sincere and i'm sure it was. at least she's from california. but i also want to say the other day you were talking about -- oh, well. host: what do you think about sara palin's comments and if reagan would be proud of that? caller: well, i'm sure. e he would be proud of her for standing up. and i think reagan was simply wonderful. and i hated the fact that he

was downgraded by, of course, the democrats and the blacks for such a long time. but when you remember how many people attended his funeral, all along the way to his -- to his resting place, that's a lot of people. host: is there a certain aspect among conservatives, the movement today that you think mr. reagan would have been most proud of? caller: well, everything. i think the fact that they got together and supported the non-tax thing, that tax and supporting the opposition to government.

the government inducing things like food. host: we'll leave it there. independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to say rond reagan started the jun ward destruction of the middle class -- downward destruction of the middle class and there's been some -- in this big deficit. when he was done we add add $6 trillion to the deficit. bush comes in, between the tax can you tell us, the two wars, and the prescription drug added another $6 trillion. so that brings you up to $12 trillion. zwhroo so that bring host: so bring that today as far as the conservative movement. caller: he had a piece in the paper and he ts one who proposed the reagan trickle-down economics. he says the republicans have distorted what the reagan plan was. without spending cuts.

to plunge you deeper. reagan's tax were two years at a time, not these ten-year deals to help them deeper into debt. one of the things i want to say is they've taken all the good-paying jobs away from the american people. they're going after social security and medicare. the american people aren't going to have nothing in 15, 20 years. host: arkansas, democrat's line. caller: i would like to say that, number one, reagan to me, he was more of a, i guess, a right wing. because his economic policies is really what fit republicans to do what they're doing today. they think they can bring back the reagan days, the good

glorious days. but to be honest, miss sara palin is a fraud. the rest of the republicans is a fraud to be honest. they don't represent the american people. if they understood who they were, we should all come together and help one another out. but that's just the republicans . host: so if you had to say what were the differences between conservatives of the reagan day and of the modern day, what would you say? caller: i would say that they both were crass. host: california, cliff on our republican line. caller: i really don't know what to say. i am almost offended by your question. i have called c-span a whole bunch of times. i've never been at such a complete loss. what could one possibly say on this topic? the people who absolutely hated reagan, and you know exactly what i mean, you know, throughout his entire career, until, you know, he absolutely

kicked their butt so bad that they had to come around. now, you're going to hear -- what can somebody say? now you're going to hear all these people call in and what you're going to hear is hate and irrational, mad. and now we're going to talk about sara palin, the next figure that just brings out just hate on the part. that's all i could really say. when you say reagan and you say palin, all you're going to hear from their opponents is hate. and you know it. now, ronald reagan absolutely kicked butteds in this -- butt in this nation so thoroughly that the elites after the death of ronald reagan finally had to come around. and for his hundredth birthday, everybody is going to be neeling and praying including barack obama at the altar of ronald reagan. and you know that, too.

host: hold on. back to the point as far as ms. palin's point as far as what would reagan say about the conservative movement today. caller: it happens to be kicking butt. look around. health care is ours. the deficit issue is ours. i'm talking about political issues. job creation are ours. you know, as far as sara palin, you know, she's a little bit irrelevant except you guys keep working once in a while you try to -- you keep trying to bring her back as an issue. so that you can expose my ideology again, once again torks the hate. i've lived this for 40 years, sir. and i really do think you know exactly what i'm saying . host: washington. robert on our democrat's line. caller: good morning. the reason i called is i'm 65 and i remember ronald reagan

all the way back from california he raised taxes until people squeeked in california when he was governor there and a lot of people lost their homes and stuff. but the main thing i remember reagan for was when he was president. and he immediately fired all the air traffic controllers. and i was just, i didn't know what to think about that because i never saw any president, workers, people who were actual workers and come down on them so hard as he did. and also, he did the number where he kicked a lot of people out of like san tarmes and stuff like that. so he wasn't afraid to make moves like that but it was almost like affecting people to that point on such a harsh way. those are the things i remember about him when i was younger. host: would you parallel that

in any sense to what you're seeing in the conservative movement today? caller: just the harshness of the rhetoric and the harsh moves that they make. and, you know, the just the level of politics that they work at where, you know, in the instance, the means. and whatever happens in between there, whoever gets hurt, you know, it's -- they don't really have that compassion that a lot of democrats do. that's my experience. host: you may have seen, if you get the cover -- get time magazine at home, this recent cover. why obama loves reagan and what he's learned from him. it was the topic of a recent op ed on the topic from the "l.a. times" and here's what he had

to say. that time magazine features a photo shop picture. again, we've taken all this this morning as comments from sara palin last night about the

conservative movement today. she said mr. reagan would be proud of conservatives. you can register your thoughts on phone or e-mail or twitter this morning if you agree or disagree. independent line. good morning. go ahead. caller: i don't think that reagan would be proud of sara palin. i mean, this woman thinks that he graduated from college in california instead of illinois. she doesn't even know what she's talking about. people like her and michelle balkman are idiots who don't even have their facts straight. so no i don't think bhelled proud of them at all. host: woodbridge, virginia. you are next. michael on our republican line. caller: thank you. let me turn this down. host: appreciate that. caller: i don't understand where these people get all this

hate from. i mean, reagan was -- i mean, when he talked, i remember as a young man i would sit and i would just feel so much like an american. and it would bring tears to my eyes because you could truly see that he was above the politics, the rhetoric that the -- just the b.s. he just told it like it was. and people don't like that. people want to hear what they want to hear. they don't want to hear the truth. you know. and it's sad. i mean, the man has passed on and his birthday is coming up. and we need more people like him. you know? i think he would be proud of the conservatives. i don't think he would be proud of this country, though. i think he would shelled a tear. host: what do you think he would be proud of? guest: i think be proud of the little guy that's not happy with certain things and and,

you know, showing their upset about the health care and things that are being forced on them that i think that's myself, my personal belief is that it's unconstitutional. but i just don't understand where these people get their education from. it's beyond me. it really is. i mean, the guy ed that was screaming at you a couple minutes ago, i just don't understand. some of these people just need to learn to read or maybe be quiet and open their ears instead of their mouth. but thank you for your time. host: new york, mark on our democrat's line. caller: well, how appropriate. the previous man ought to read about ronald reagan. how about when they were passing out food to the poor and he said how come there's never a good case of botyullism when you need one. and how about when he told the

iranians to hold on to the hostages until after inauguration day. now to your question about sara palin. as bad of a human being as ronald reagan was, i think he would find sara palin repulsive because when she was running for vice president, there were people yelling kim him, in reference to -- kill him. referring to obama. as bad as reagan was, he didn't try to kill them. at least he was civil about it . host: what would he say about the civil movement? caller: i think they've ruined by shifting the wealth from the poor to the middle and upper class. i think these people that say we should read, perhaps they should read american history and study it and then maybe they can save our country. because it's going to die if they keep believing what they

believe. host: the financial times is one of many stories on fiscal issues concerning the job numbers that came out yesterday.

st. louis, missouri. our republican line asking about if reagan would be proud of the conservative movement today. caller: good morning. two apparent cazzms on both sides regarding reagan. i don't necessarily fit into our what is now in regarding the republican party. i'm a moderate republican. and proud of it. and the point taken and being, so is reagan. reagan wasn't some arch right conservative irrational nut job who thought the government was out to get him. reagan worked with tip o'neal when he had to and his mantra was when we leave this on the table, i'll gladly somewhat grudgingly leave you 40 when we take 60 and i'll see you next

election. this nonsense about people standing nose to nose at townhall daring representatives to come home, i mean, this nonsense is irrational. nothing of reagan's urging. this is some nonsense where people in my party. not some left wing wacko who thought reagan was hitler. reagan wouldn't fall for any of this. when the bombing occurred overseas in lebanon and reagan brought our troops out, today the very same morens who stand around and say they adore reagan and how right-winged he was would call that cut and run. reagan was not right-winged. he was what they would call these days a rhino. a common sense republican who

didn't kneel to died -- didn't need to call some 1800 number for some jerk to call him an american. i won't even discuss the democratic party because until they manifest to clean up inner cities with a little el bo grease and personal responsibility, well, they're blowing in the wind as well. but republicans and reagan, most don't know dutch reagan. host: twitter this morning lincoln city, oregon. on our democrat's line. richard, good morning. caller: thanks a lot. i never get through. i don't know, you know, it really comes from the heart and reagan's mind where he was really coming from. we have a president right now that's really trying to take care of the human beings in this country. the health of human beings.

and death panels, you know, that's like another word for slave. instead of saying the president's own human beings, you say slave. so, but death panels is like you're going to unplug grandma. that's murdering grandma. all right? so i don't know what reagan would think about this health care thing. but, you know, it's about as sickening as sickening can get. you know, obama wasn't born here. i mean, this is just goes on and on. and anybody that whines about c-span, you know, you're not doing it this way, you're not doing it that way, this is about the best open news you can get. and if you don't like it, go listen to fox and see if you can figure out some facts on

fox. host: before you go, and i will say please stay with us and don't change the channel. but before you go, would you say, as far as there's a difference of style that perhaps mr. reagan showed that perhaps the conservative movement shows today? caller: i don't know. i just think that, you know, republican, i call them republican/confed rats. you know, the war hasn't been over for the republicans since the civil war. and i just can't help it. i mean, you know, there's just too much of that old south that's just -- they jst happened to be wearing confed rart flags on their lab el. host: good morning to carl on our republican line. caller: i wish these guys would stop beating this notion that anybody that's against obama's

policies is a racist or a big ot. that's all you hear. and i think ronald reagan would be very proud of the tea party movement because that's what ronald reagan was for, smaller government, lean, mean, government. and as far as these people calling in and calling sara palin a nut, they called ronald reagan an air head. , wasn't very intelligent. host: now, we just had a caller who would describe mr. reagan as what's been commonly known as a rhino, a republican in name only. host: well, he had better go back and search history because i don't think mr. reagan was a rhino. i think when he went up against the air traffic controller union and told them you either go to work or you go home, if someone had stood up to the auto workers unions, g.m. would

have never gone bankrupt and you've got to let people kind of make it on their own a little bit. i mean, it's all right to help them out when they need help, but i say give them a chance to make it on their own. host: ms. palin spoke at a young america's foundation, the event last night. that event continues honoring mr. reagan. tonight the speaker is dick cheney. he's as far as president reagan's 100th birthday. he will speak tonight. and you can see that live at 10:15 this evening. tulsa, oklahoma. you are next. on our independent line. caller: good morning, sir. i think it's a completely different era and people tend to forget reagan was a democrat and switched to a republican.

now, i think the difference between then and now are the financial situation, the ideas, there's just so much, it's almost hard to compare the two. i think he would appreciate some of the aspects of obama's policies and he would appreciate some of the drive of the tea party people. but all in all, i just think it's just too big of a difference of time to reaganly compare the two. so i would say that he would probably be ok with it, but i would hope he would be an independent. host: now, when you say he would be ok with it, can you clarify that? caller: i think he would be ok with some of the smaller ideas but he would also at the same time he would want to do some of the things that obama is doing as far as trying to reform the health care and trying to help the poor people,

not really poor people. that's a bad choice of words but the less -- there's no real good way to say it, i will just go ahead and say the poor people. the little people. he would be proud of obama trying to help them, trying to help the people that need the e health care that can't afford it. host: california, molly, republican line. good morning. caller: yes. i know that president reagan would be very proud of the conservatives and the tea party today. what i know he would also be appalled at is the fact that this president obama in order to get his stark bill through gave up the secrets of the u.k. nuclear plan to russia. this to me is, he's a traitor. they're our greatest ally. but because they kicked his grand father out of kenya, that's his blood. his blood is in america. that's why he was happy to destroy us.

host: defiance, ohio, becky on our democrat's line. caller: i started voting when reagan was running for president. and he, his thing was states rights. when ohio didn't vote the way he wanted to, the second time, he decided that if we didn't vote the way he wanted to, then he was going to take our transportation money away from us. and then when he did break the union, with the air traffic controllers, they were complaining about how unsafe it was and everything like that, and he broke the union, which was the beginning of the average worker not having any say in their work and in the last year we had the day that they gave the rich those tax breaks, the trickle-down effect, one of the plants in ohio locked the workers out because they didn't want to go

and pay higher wages in their health insurance. so that's the kind of president reagan was. he wasn't for the little people. he was for the rich becoming richer. and his rhetoric, just like with the -- i think of the republicans as a husband who cheats on his wife, he goes around and accuses her of doing all these things. but really he's doing it. so when i hear the republicans talking i'd today and how they're socialists and this and this, well, i think they need to look in the mirror and they're probably the ones doing it more than the democrats. host: tomorrow on this program, we'll spend an hour looking at ronald reagan with our guest richard norton smith. during that discussion you will see the video of mr. reagan over the years to give you a flavor of what to expect for tomorrow. this is from 1964. >> no government voluntarily reduces itself in size so

government's once launched never disappear. actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth. federal employees number 2.5 million. and federal state and local, one out of six of the nation's workforce employed by government. these proliferating bureaus with their thousands of regulations have cost us many of our constitutional safe guards. how many of us realize that today federal agents can invade a man's property without a warrant, they can impose a fine without a formal hearing let alone a trial by jury and they can seize and sell his property at auction to enforce the payment of that fine. host: and just a little bit of what to expect, the speech about the size of government tomorrow on our program. for now, we're taking the idea or at least an idea given to us by sara palin last night about what ronald reagan would say about the conservative movement today and get your thoughts on

that. texas, republican line, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to clarify something for a lot of people. i keep hearing remarks about reagan having fired the air traffic controllers. that is true. now, i'm a retired federal employee. and i was retired or i was employed at the time reagan was elected. i voted for him twice. the reason those people were fired and all of them, by the way, or most of them were 13s and 14s. i was a 12. the reason those guys were fired was they violated the hatch act which thank god we have in this country. anybody who has been overseas and lived overseas a while can experience in those days at least the thing of federal employees. for instance, in france the people at the borders would

just go on strike and traffic would back up. this was not unusual. and that's in there to protect the public in this country. and i was subject to the same laws, the hatch act, and i felt he did the right thing. that's all i have to say. host: union grove, alabama. on our democrat's line. good morning. caller: good morning. i see the republicans are going to the revisionist history concerning the reagan years because i worked during the reagan years and i know that taxes were near twice what they are now. and you saw the power and he saw the virtue of revenue in how we needed it for our infrastructure. i voted for reagan back in those years. i'm a democrat now and i think reagan would be what we would call a democrat today.

the right has turned so much to the right and have revised history so much that they put reagan as their god. yet they're saying cut and run from the politics that should be to run this america correctly so that our highways and our bridges and so that we'll have a decent place for the people to live. they say that the democrats are lazy but the democrats aren't lazy. they're just as many unemployed republicans as there are democrats. and i just feel that the right wingers have just gone off the board completely. host: from the u.s.a. -- from the "wall street journal" this morning parkersburg, west

virginia. sarah on our republican line. caller: hello. thanks for taking my call. i just wanted to say that ronald reagan needed to control the union people of the air traffic control because they would have shut the country

down. they would have shut the airways down with their strike to get a few more dollars an hour on their pay checks. and they wouldn't have given a hoot what it did to the rest of the country. and that's why we have so many jobs going overseas is because unions have been out of control for so long they've crowded people out of this country who were giving jobs to small people. host: reagan's approach other than that of the conservatives today? caller: pardon? host: no longer there. next call, illinois, phyllis, independent line. caller: good morning, pedro. two things i would like to say. first, i loved ronald reagan. he was a good man. hour, he did not free -- however, he did not free those 444 troops. carter did. he also took us off the gold

standard. according to his advice from his vice president george bush, they took us off the gold standard and after that we started going into debt. we didn't have any gold to back up the money we were printing. and then the other thing as far as who is really running the country. it wasn't ronald reagan. he was just a mouth piece for vice president george bush and his top aid mr. hainie. and -- not haineafplt dick cheney. and i love him as a human being and he was a great actor and a great speaker. however, he did not know what he was doing. host: the house is set to extend the vote on the patriot act.

long island, new york. you are next. cindy on our democrat's line. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm calling to directly address your question. i do not think ronald reagan, who is a charming delightful man, a terrible president, i don't think he would approve of these, of today's republican party or at least the one whose have high jaked them. there are lots of good republicans. but ronald reagan for all the flaws that i know of him was a gentleman. can you imagine ronald reagan shouting at a guest speaker in our house of representatives shouting, you lie? these are just not people who

are proper peeple. ronald reagan, for that man that called several calls ago from virginia, not the more recent one from west virginia, said well these democrats, they can't stand the truth. they don't want to hear the truth about ronald reagan. he was wonderful. ronald reagan did one of the most vulgar things that i can imagine doing and that man said he just told like it was. the ugliest thing i remember in my lifetime, and i'm 72, was when ronald reagan was going to announce that he is running for reelection. he went to mississippi, he went right to the town where the sheriff and the deputy sheriff. remember? they stopped the three civil rights workers and held them until after dark on false charges of speeding. and then they released them to

the gathering of chancemen who murdered them. three youngsters, they murdered them. ronald reagan knew exactly where he was going. after he left office there were aides that told him, you can't go there. states rights is one thing. but to go to where these people were murdered. ronald reagan didn't care a darn how many people by the thousands were dying of aids until his dearest beloved closest friend rock hudson died of aids and it shocked him. but he realized, oh, real people, nice people, this can happen to. ronald reagan was an absolutely awful president. and that man from virginia, i refer him and all your listeners to shortly after ronald reagan's death, ana wrote a one-page essay as she was doing at the time for newsweek about ronald reagan. and it was simply truthful.

it told some bad things he had done. who would deny that he is likeable? that he is just charming? but he did such awful things and that's all you need to know. host: pens, florida. mike on our republican line. caller: i think ronald reagan would be loved by today cls servetive movement and i think vice versa. the problems facing this country are nothing like we have seen before. but could be similar, could be compared to communism and the fall of communism. and the matter of fact is there was no one able to confront that problem of communism and the cold war like ronald reagan. never before was there a man who spoke so well, spoke so prowfully and united the

country. and say what you will about this president, he holds nothing in comparison to ronald reagan. host: charleston, south carolina. caller: good morning. you're doing a great job. the lady before the last caller provided us a great segway for my commentary. in fact, ronald reagan made his way to a town called philadelphia, mississippi to announce his candidacy for the presidency. and during his address, he used these words. we know how you feel and we feel the same way. this is what gave him 49 states. now, the boy from that south carolina, ronald reagan may be one of the most racist individuals whoever lived. i invite people to do a little research on the way he handled the black panther, angela davis when he was governor, treated

her like she was a, devoted so much police to this one individual. and the definition of like ronald reagan being a saint is something that is widely believed but has no basis in fact. host: the president has authorized airport screeners under tsa to unionize. the "wall street journal" this morning saying

new york, new york. frank, republican line. caller: good morning. that lady who gave the lengthy die tribe should try and implicate a president regardless of who it was with the deaths of westerner, goodman, and shah, is not taking into conversation the temper of the locale and the times. and it's a cheap shot, has no bearing in truth whatsoever. i'm sitting here in new york with tavern on the green closed because of the unions, 400 employees out. i have another tavern closed partly because of the smoking law, the economy, and again the unions. their greed is just unstoppable. i have to agree with my southern brother who called earlier that any republican or politician who tries to emulate reagan has my vote. host: that's the last call we will take on the subject. we will change gears, talk about the economy in light of

job numbers that came out yesterday. sarah murray our guest gives us that information and talk with you about it. we'll be right back.

>> the whole environment of politics has come apart. it has become polluted and destroyed and violent.

"q&a" sunday. the art of the possible. >> part of the reason for doing the documentary was to show another side of this. everybody just remembers humpfully as licking linden johnson's boots all the time. people didn't know what pressure he was under. "washington journal" continues. >> joining us, sarah murray from the "wall street journal." from the job number picture yesterday, the 9% figure, is that a real number? guest: there is some disagreement about that. we do have reason to believe that it is a sign of a stronger labor market but because of the snow storms and weather and things like that it's hard to tell whether the true unemployment rate has fallen as we've seen. host: a lot of people questioning even the weather factor. could you give some context how

that plays into the number? guest: one of the surveys the department uses is the survey of businesses to help you figure out how many jobs were added. because so many businesses were closed because of the snow storms it makes it harder to get accurate data. host: so we saw it drop to 9%. but yet talk about the actual numbers that were created job-wise and then talk about the relations between the two. caller: the big issue with this latest report is ksh -- guest: the biggest, they showed 36,000 jobs were created. that's not a large number of jobs to significantly bring do you know the unemployment rate which is why the 9% figure is a question mark. so we really see sustained drops, you need about 200,000 jobs being added each month. and we're no where near that. host: what's the difference between the actual numbers we saw and what were estimated as far as numbers of jobs created? guest: actual jobs created might have been higher than

this figure because we're talking about the snow storms. you can't get an accurate count. which would be a good thing. i think you need to look past january and see what's happening in the months ahead to get a better idea exactly how strong job growth is. and if we're lucky the rate will keep falling and we'll see stronger job growth. host: as far as sustainability, is the downtrend of unemployment something that economists or whoever you talk to see happening in the months ahead, or do they see this as an aberration of sorts? guest: we might still see some fluctuation, nobody is guaranteing we'll stay at 9%. but the overall trend is we are dealing with an improved labor market, more people moving into the labor force, more people getting jobs. so we're seeing signs of strength. that's expected to continue. but whether it's going to keep going downward is a bit of a question mark. host: so as far as actual jobs are created, what areas saw growth, what areas saw declines?

guest: manufacturing has been huge in this recovery. it's rebounded so much faster and they've been creating a lot of jobs. the areas we're still seeing problems are construction of course. the housing industry is just battered and bruised and is not coming back. the other area are state and local governments. between their budget cuts and laying off workers and raising taxes, it's a mess there and that's expected to continue for approximately two more years. host: we're seeing health care jobs saying that an average of 22,000 jobs a month are being created. guest: health care is another we haven't seen much decline. they've held up well and that's expected to continue . host: there's also statistics about construction jobs. from the, we got the information yisheds, there was a decrease in about 32,000 jobs. host: exactly. construction is just not coming back. we're, even at the end of the year, december we saw a little strength in terms of sales of existing homes but we're not seeing a big urge to buy homes

right now. people are just really nervous about making that kind of investment. host: our guest with us to talk about the economy overall, she's sarah murray with the "wall street journal." if you want to call us, the numbers are on the bottom of your screen. the actual hard numbers aside, what are other areas of the economy showing as far as away from the job numbers, what are we seeing as far as improvements and areas of concern? guest: economic growth is completely being driven by the consumer. we're seeing some business investment. that's slowed a little bit. that was really strong earlier but right now people are spending. we saw it in retail sales. but for that to continue you need job growth. right now people are feeling a

bit better. if they don't start seeing companies are hiring, adding workers, talking to friends who are unemployed now getting jobs, you're not going to see them continue to spend. host: and credit use and that spending. guest: credit use we haven't seen a big change. banks are still a little wary about increasing their lending. but they are starting to lend more to businesses, which is a good sign. if they can start getting credit, they can make investments. so that's a good sign scombloofplt we talked about construction. it leeths to a larger picture of housing. talk about the marriage between the two. guest: so housing is just, it's in the dumps right now. there's no sign that's about to change. home ownership levels right now have completely erased everything that happened during the boom. we're at like 1998 levels in terms of home ownership. so builders aren't expecting that to get better very soon.

the first half is likely to be slow. the second half is when people expect the job to take hold and might be more willing to take that investment and buy a house scombloofplt host: the first call is from illinois. susan on our republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i appreciate c-span and i wanted to add one comment relative to jobs. i don't understand why it's not being done when obama was in illinois he was involved in some helping reforest or tree planting. and to help with the conservation. and i think that's something we're missing. they can hire a lot of people, get some trees planted. trees will catch tur the car done dismid and it's an investment in our country with the future lumber coming. i just think it's something that is overlooked and it would be a way to get more jobs.

and that's my comment on that. guest: well, you have seen the president talk about when we're thinking about creating jobs, we need to think about creating sustainable jobs. green energy and in the realm that you're talking about. and i think we heard that from the president in the state of the union. we're dealing with a huge budget crisis, with a deficit. but we need to continue investing in the areas that he thinks matters and will continue moving our country forward. and this is one of the areas he's talking about. host: somebody from twitter asks. guest: we are seeing, so this is kind of a hard calculation to do because we have new population estimates. what we are seeing is that the fraction of people that are looking for jobs is that it's the lowest point since the 1980s. this is not a good sign . host: these are people not looking at all. guest: yes. so the set of people looking

have a job is at its lowest point since the 1980s. which means there's a huge number of people out there saying, yeah, i want a job but the labor market just looks so bad that it's not even worth my time to put out resumes because no one is going to hire. host: there's also another category, those marginally attached. guest: this idea of someone who either wants to work and just can't, doesn't think it's even worth their time. someone who is working part time but wants to work full time. maybe they used to and their hours were cut. there are people who want to work but because of the economic conditions aren't if you willy involved in the labor force. host: where does age play a factor for those looking for jobs currently? guest: we're hearing a lot about older workers who are having difficulty finding jobs. the truth is a lot of the people unemployed for a long time tend to be older, tend to not have a college degree, and

they're saying it's really difficult to find jobs and that they do think the fact that particularly if they're over 50 they think that's playing a part. host: and you talked about high school degree. for those out of work right now, what are the prospects for getting a job with only a high school degree? guest: we might be dealing with a different economy going forward. we are seeing jobs being created in things like retail. the problem is if you are used to making a living and you had full benefits and pension or whatever and working in manufacturing and making a decent living, it's hard to make that transition into something like retail. a lot of times you don't get benefits. you get paid an hourly rate that's a lot lower. so that's a difficult change to make. host: new york, thanks for holding on. john, our democrat's line. caller: good morning. in relation to the government, it appears for quite a long

time, and it has already been articulated that we do not have a spending problem, we've had for the longest time a revenue problem. and the so-called tax cuts to those in positions of power and control, which you may call the rich, now that that has been extended, the democrats from a political standpoint have got to consistently and clearly articulate where now are the living wage jobs now that you have some relief knowing that the tax cuts are granted? and if you remember the first time under george bush, it was a problem getting them done. not only did they have to add the sunset clause, dick cheney had to come in to break the tie. so it wasn't a very popular notion. but now the democrats have got to consistently ask, where are the living wage jobs now that the tax cuts for those in position of power and control have been extended. host: what qualifies as a living wage job? guest: when we're talking about

working in an old manufacturing job versus working in a retail job. a living wage job is something where it feels like a bit more of a career than a job. and all jobs aren't created equal. working in retail for $8 an hour with no health benefits is not the same as working on an assembly line at $25 an hour where you had benefits and vacation. so we're dealing with a different economy. there's no guarantee that someone with a high school diploma can make the same thing now. it's hard to go through retraining and refit them for something new. host: off of twitter. guest: there is little bit of a question about that. i think that's less of a concern now. a lot of companies don't really tend to keep their workers on very long after christmas.

and we did see that there wasn't a huge burst in holiday hiring this year that we expected. so i think that that's less of an issue than this idea. the snow storms, not being able to report correctly. i think a lot of this holiday hire stuff has worked its way out of the system. host: home prices. generally, what are we seeing? guest: we're not seeing anything good. so home prices continue to be very weak. that does make it difficult. i mean, it makes it an attractive investment because if home prices are down it's more affordable. but it makes people nervous. they don't want to be caught in a situation where they thought they were investing in something that would continue to go up and continue to appreciate and then that doesn't happen. host: a colleague of yours had a story on home prices and had a graphic. but some of the things showed a drop of prices between one year to the next. and the washington, d.c. area we saw a drop of about 5.8%. in new york about 5.1%. but places like minneapolis saw a drop of 11% and jacksonville

10%. what adds to those disparities? guest: the nice thing about washington, d.c. and new york they sort of have a built-in demand pool. there's a good chance you're not planning to move out. you're here for work, you work for the government and so you're staying. in places like minneapolis, they tend to have a wider range in prices. they run higher and fell further. and people tend to leave. if they were leaving there and -- living there and they could leave, they did . host: as far as jobs are concerned, there are more jobs being created and held on to in our areas than other areas of the country? guest: absolutely host: because of the government? guest: absolutely. washington, d.c. has ridden out the recession a lot more than other areas. host: in washington, you are next for sarah murray. cliff, republican line. go ahead. caller: question for sarah. how much does she think that

the unknown quantityty of tax can you tell us or the, i don't care if you want to call them tax cuts or the continue once of those and the instability of fannie mae and freddie mac are really affecting employment since billingr big-time investors or at least companies don't know what's going to happen do you know the road? guest: thing there's a big question with the tax right now. i think the fact that we did get this sort of tax cut package through and that's been decided for now is helpful to businesses because they now at least have this done. it's also going to be helpful to consumers because we are seeing cut in payroll taxes and they're thinking that will help support consumer spending for a while. host: off of twitter. guest: that is an excellent question.

and it's one that economists and policy makers don't know how to answer right now. the thing we know is there are a lot of retraining programs and those can be great for some people but they're not great for all people. and the problem is that people who have been unemployed for the longest tend to be these people who aren't benefited by retraining. if it tends to be best if you're younger, tend to have college. women tend to do better. host: why is that? guest: they don't really know. so the idea of where these people are going to move is a huge question. the problem is a lot of them are giving up. they look at their job prospects and say if i'm in my 50s do i really want to go back to college? do i want to learn a whole new industry? so they opt for early retirement . host: so when we say retraining, what do we neen? guest: like going back to community college programs. we saw cheaper programs or free programs offered during the downturn for people who had

been laid off. in michigan they retrained auto makers to build sets for movies, to work in the health care industry, things like that. host: i don't thinkers, new york. good morning. we talk to andy. independent line. caller: i'm a first-time caller and a lot of my questions have been asked already about the tax cuts. so i'll switch gears here and i'll say that republicans always talk about the health care bill stopping jobs. i believe in health care for all. but how does that affect the job market if we give health care to people? guest: the whole thing about the health care bill is we haven't seen it go into effect yet so we're not entirely sure how this is going to play in. it will affect the health care industry in terms of the rates that hospitals get from insurers. they're trying to figure out how that's going to affect the revenue stream. they're expecting there to be a big effect on state budgets. they don't know what it's going to be, they're not entirely

sure how people will move from private insurance into a more public exchange or on to medicaid and things like that. so it's something everyone is watching closely and i know it's something states are worried about in terms of whether they're going to have to be increasing their budgets and providing a lot of health services to people. . .

of jobs being added to move to the other side. host: these are career jobs? or is it all jobs? disco a could be all jobs. there is a difference between getting a job in finance where you get a salary and benefits, and retail jobs. if someone is moving from making six figures into making $50,000 a year, they are going to change their spending habits. host: how comfortable are the employers? are they doing that in certain sectors? guest: they are not credible creating jobs yet. i think the fact that the economy is growing at a faster rate, banks are more willing to lend is going to help. we are not seeing huge profits from companies. they are making a huge amount of

money -- we are seeing a huge profit from companies. the profits they are seeing are from people buying their products. host: mass., good morning, our independent line. caller: i would like to ask what happened to the billions of dollars set aside for these certain jobs to be done and long, long time ago. the money is there. we have to free it up. we have money going over to china. they promised massachusetts said it would be here. they left 100 people stranded. but they are taking our stimulus money with them. why? we need people to fix our ruse down here because the storm has done devastating things to us.

we have the highest medical. but we need people here. we do need them. we have the jobs coming through. guest: when you are talking about our relationship with china -- this is something we are hearing a lot about lately. a lot of people are concerned about moving their factories abroad. china is becoming a less attractive place for people to move their companies. we get demand from china. we are seeing bigger exports. i was talking to a company a couple of weeks ago that is now exporting -- i think it was general motors, they are now exporting into china. i think people which we were getting a lot more demand. it is something to watch. host: michigan, good morning.

caller: how are you doing today? i am 46 years old. what i have not heard anybody talk about for a very long time is the fact that -- you guys talk about unemployment. the fact that we had these temporary services such as manpower, kelly, -- i am a family man. what happened to the days when you pound the pavement as an american citizen to get a job, and these companies would have to hire you off of the street and give you full time employment. therefore, [unintelligible] that is gone. no one has talked about this issue ever. your guest talked about we need

to into a dozen jobs a month to get back on track. well, who is going to give us these jobs? manpower, kelly? it is just a factory of bodies that these temporary services use. you have no health care, yet a lot of jobs went overseas. the problem is the main manufacturers have gone overseas for cheap labor, and they have left us with manpower and kelly. somebody needs to bring this to the forefront -- host: you are saying these days labour companies are the problem. caller: that is the problem with unemployment. i cannot believe nobody sees that. guest: you are absolutely right. we have seen a huge explosion in

demand in terms of temporary services. that is something companies tend to tap into when they do not feel comfortable hiring a full- time worker. the have seen an increase in demand so they do want to bring someone on. this past month, are latest data showed a drop in temporary services. before that, we have been seeing big gains. that will slow in a little bit as companies get more confident about hiring. we are expected to see a turning point come soon were companies feel more comfortable upbringing on full-time workers. that does not happen as much. host: colorado, you are next four sara murray of the wall street journal. the democrat blind. caller: good morning. thank you, c-span.

i feel the place to do jobs is technology. a look at wikileaks and the packers. you have the internet identification -- look at wikileaks enand the hackers. it may cost $300 billion to do so, but the profits, $1.74 trillion. if you put those workers in those areas, you will have that amount of people working that you are looking for jobs for. it may not be technology or data, but those two particular jobs with the income will serve benefits if we do expand the government, front-row, and the state and have all three working together. it is working as a team to make it work. i know they want to cut on

technology, but we are so far behind. make some kind of an incentive program. they get 15 million customers per day. if you take those customers and give them an incentive program to build off of, tax-wise, they will bring their business here and keep it here, because they are making 600 more there. guest: the problem with creating tech jobs is is not freed. i think a lot of people agree that, yes, technology is an area for growth and we need to be focused on it. we do know that. but it does cost money. even if you look at our federal budget, we are definitely behind in terms of technology when we look at our government but we do not have a lot of money to be creating a lot of jobs. that being said, some businesses

cutting jobs are focused on the tech area. they say if they do hire anyone, they are hiring people to do electronic medical records and things like that. it takes money to invest to create these jobs, and a lot of businesses do not feel like they are there yet. host: michigan, barbara, republican line. caller: first of all, i want to thank you. i think you are doing a wonderful job narrating. and, sara, you look too young to be in the business that you are but i think you are doing a good job. i do have another statement i would like to make. we always want to look for the rich people or the people in government. we are just as smart and innovative as we can be.

why can't we just all get together, state-by-state, go in, have some integrity in our meetings, and battle this out -- not battle it out, discuss these things. not arguing, fighting, or yelling at each other, but we have very intelligent people. i don't care if it is the president or the gentle man sitting next to you. i don't care if it is timbuktu raising from the grave. we have the intelligence. what happens to a one-minded democracy? we all come together and we all come with good ideas. then we sort them out. and i have people in michigan who could have gotten a job but

they did not want a job because they did not make $25 an hour or $30 an hour. well, if that is where you have to start again, at least it will put food in your belly. guest: it is always heartbreaking to hear from people in michigan. i am actually from there. i completely -- you hear about these reports of people turning down jobs. i think that is something that happened a little more frequently earlier in the recession before people really understood how bad it was going to be. i think people are adjusting their standards lower for better or for worse. when you take a low-paying job, you set a new rate for yourself. it is hard to say now my skills are worth $8 an hour.

that is a very hard adjustment to make. it happens more frequently during recessions. the effect of that can stick with them for decades. so, that is why i think people are reluctant to do it. host: is it true the unemployed pay taxes on benefits? guest: yes. there was a waiver-ink in 2009 where they did not have to pay taxes, but now it is taxable income. host: massachusetts is next. we go to fred on our independence line. caller: i want to ask a question. normally, you would think when the unemployment rate goes down, more people are working. that is how it works. this particular time, i heard the census data has been manipulated in such a way so the

work got smaller, so that made -- it just happened to lower the rate down that way. i hear all these different colors and so forth and they have all great ideas. reagan was facing a very similar problem as we are now. with the stroke of a pen without any stimulus money, he was able to solve the problem by incentivizing buying property. so that the people had an incentive to buy for tax purposes and in one fell swoop changed the complete dynamic of the housing industry. a third of the unemployed are construction people, so that might go a long way to help the unemployment rate.

guest: first, we are talking about incentivizing buying property. we did a little bit it did increase demand while it was happening. once it expired, the demand fell off a cliff. when we are talking about the unemployment rate, i think you are talking about the change with the census data. when we are talking about our new estimates, that made the all look a little bit murky. overall, yes, we did see some declines in the on and pommard rate partly because more people drop out of the labour force. that is a sign that they are discouraged. but, there was some strength and hiring. yes, some people back out. host: louisiana, dale on our republican line.

caller: in these unemployment numbers and the way they are doing it, this has to be the biggest choke. the unemployment rate is about 20%. we cannot grow the government. let me repeat. we cannot grow the government. we have to grow the private sector. we have a $14 trillion baby hanging over our heads. let me tell you something else. i am upset over tax dollars. i am sick of children having children, five to a dozen, and i have to pay their wages. host: how do you get that unemployment of 20%? caller: just what the little .ady's, and just said they are sweating these numbers. guest: the labor department is not trying to create a false

number so everyone feels happier. 9% is not a good number to begin with, but you are right. the unemployment number does not measure everyone who is unemployed. so if you stop looking, you are not counted in the official unemployment rate. they do have secondary measures that are in the double-digit which include everyone who wants to have a job. this is where you see double- digit unemployment rates. people who want to work but have given up looking. host: dick emory this morning, your thoughts on canada -- guest: canada has come through this recession and a lot easier. we know it has been a global downturn. canada can a little stronger because they did not have the

huge bows and boom and bust that we had. their home prices did not skyrocket and then plummet. they are not dealing with falling home prices and huge declines in construction the same way we are. host: we will go to montana, the independent line. caller: i would like to make a quick fact. during the same point during reagan's first term, the unemployment rate was 10.8%. the quality of jobs has steadily diminished over the past 30 years. the changing economy is a hard pill for americans to swallow. we have not lost our jobs. they were never our jobs. we have stopped being competitive. we have the idea that we have to have a $25 an hour job, that

somehow our society -- we have to have that. the jobs walked away because we stopped being competitive. guest: part of the issue is changing demand. we are less of a good a economy than we used to be and we are more of a service economy. the problem is service-providing jobs tend to pay less and come without benefit. i do agree that it is a hard pill to swallow. jobs being created 10 years or 15 years down the line, a growing portion of our going to require a college degree. that is a difficult situation for people who are older and do not feel like it is feasible to go back to college. the places that people have opportunity our young people that need to know that the expectation going forward is for a college degree. host: south carolina, good

morning. caller: good morning, good morning, good morning. a young lady, you seem like you are pretty smart but i have something good for you. out in the world do you expect anybody -- howl in the world to you expect anybody to go and make $8 an hour? second, this whole scenario is [unintelligible] you are talking about $8 an hour. here is a little something you can pass on to the politicians. since we are controlled by gas prices, let's drill our own oil. let's allow the american government to create their own oil company and sell them back to the american people, cheap, which will make these other companies bring their prices down. second of all, we would not have to worry about what is going on in egypt.

so, instead of all of these other foreign companies owning our oil, our own government create our own oil companies -- see, you are smiling because you think it is a joke. you work for wall street. listen up, america. let's to our own thing. if the gas prices come down, maybe we could create our own jobs. guest: i am glad you brought up gas prices because i do not think it is a joke. overall, we are not seeing a lot of inflation in the economy. gas prices and food prices have been an exception. that does make it harder. if you are working for $8 an hour and if you have to commute, most of your money is going to gas prices. you are not spending your money elsewhere to stimulate demand

and create more jobs. i think this is something people are paying close attention to to see how that will affect people spending habits. host: foreclosures, where are we on that? guest: we are not completely flooded with them but there is a chance we will see a second wave this year. we do have a pretty large number of foreclosures, which is one of the reasons why housing prices are so low. we have this excess supply. >host: what is the expected second wave to hit? guest: i know that a lot of housing economists are keeping a close eye on this for the next year because the last thing you want is a rush of foreclosures again to create more of a housing supply. host: what is the rate of people walking away? guest: we are seeing a little

bit less of that right now. we did see a lot earlier during the recession, people who could no longer afford it and from people who said the presence my mortgage is completely out of whack compared to how much the home is worth. host: ron, good morning. caller: this is all a joke on this unemployment. it is all made up numbers by the obama administration. obama keeps saying he wants to create jobs. he is doing everything to not create jobs. the health-care bill which has been ruled unconstitutional will destroy jobs and caught -- and cost us trillions of dollars that we cannot afford. behind the scenes, he is trying to pass cap and trade with the epa standards. everything he has done has been tried here and around the world and has failed.

the only reason people are spending now because they know inflation is going to hit and everything is going to go sky- high. guest: we do know the president does not see the jobless rate ahead of time. he sees it barely -- he sees it very shortly before it is released publicly. talking about whether government policies sway hiring, that is something you hear a lot from republicans in terms of the health care bill and in terms of the tax code and things like that. we have seen the president come out and say they are taking a closer look at regulation out there and whether it is inhibiting job growth. host: that rouge, louisiana, on

our democrats' line. good morning. caller: well, in order to know, in my opinion, what is happening, you have to go back to a little history. you were speaking about ronald reagan this morning. i was in the air force and the 1950's. so i remember some of this history. ronald reagan said on national thatision in the 1980's american companies have done an extensive study, and in order to compete on the global market, the world market, they had to lower the standard of living of the american worker. that is exactly what has been going on since that time, and probably before that.

this is all planned out. they have not got us pushed down far enough. i hate to see what this country is going to look like with the right-wing talk radio, television spewing the hate and dividing this nation -- guest: i think part of the issue now has to do with union membership. we do not see as high of the rate as we did back then. that does correlate to the jobs being offered now. this idea that jobs with higher salaries and big benefit packages are weighing on employers is something you are seeing right now in terms of states trying to renegotiate with unions. i think that is a key difference between now and the 1980's. host: chicago on our independenct line.

caller: i would like to ask a question in reference to what you said earlier in reference to a segment of the population that has been forced out of the job market, and that is seniors. not only are we qualified, many of us have two or three years of college. we can easily adjust to the technology age, but has the wall street journal or the president did an investigation as to why seniors are forced out of the job market and are discriminated by businesses that will not give them the opportunity to work? if they are willing to work at the lower wage. -- they are willing to work at a lower wage. when you reach the age of 65, we are discriminated against more because they are looking for

young people. but they need the older people in order to support the younger people who are coming in to give unqualified in the job. the wall street journal and the president who have had the opportunity to meet should take into a true investigation as to why these jobs are forcing seniors out of the market. thank you very much. guest: the hard part about unemployment with seniors is that they are not a very large part of the working population, so i think that is why you do not see them get a lot of attention. we have talked to a lot of older people who do say they are looking to re-enter the job market may be to because they are feeling uncertain about what is going on. we have heard that they are discriminated against. there is no study i have seen on this that can definitely say one

way or the other, but we do know employers often to look for younger people. and there is not a clear reason for why that is. it might be because they go into it thinking older people would expect a higher wage. it is definitely an issue. host: so as far as you see as the next time of these numbers going out, in the foreshadowing yet? guest: we have seen some messy job data from snowstorms and holiday hiring. it is not clear to me that the on and plummer rate will fall again next month but i think you will continue to see job growth in the private sector. the public sector is definitely an area that you want to keep an eye on. host: sara murray, sent you for your time. coming up later, we will take a look at security along the border of canada and the united states.

next, we will take a look at new dietary guidelines released by the usda. our guest is going to be robert post from the center for nutrition policy and promotion. first, here is our political cartoons.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: sr guest, robert post -- our guest, robert post, from the center for nutrition policy and promotion at the usda, welcome. guest: we are required every five years to review of the science and have an external committee look at nutritional

science and the development in the scientific area related to madison, pediatrics, nutrition, and health. then, develop new recommendations, perhaps improved recommendations from the previous edition. we do this every five years. host: what are we seeing, it generally? guest code today, americans are consuming far more calories from fruits or is there are empty calories, far more calories from food sec contained excess amounts of sugars and sodium as well as saturated fat. certainly, we need an improvement in the amount of fruits and vegetables and whole grains and low-fat milk and milk products. host: that is not a new phenomenon. guest: this time around, we spent a considerable amount of

time examining the environmental impacts that affect food choices for good or for bad. we have also considered life spanned considerations. children are in need of changes in behavior. older americans are in need of certain nutrients. we spend a considerable amount of time looking at the life span in this edition of the dietary guidelines. host: so behaviors' became a large part of this study guest: in the evidence that was reviewed, using the gold standard of research, we were able to look at environmental factors and consider them in these recommendations. host: televisions, computers? guest: yes, especially television. we see behavior's that contribute to obesity and overweight.

today, we have an epidemic when it comes to overweight and obese city where two-thirds of adults are overweight or obese critical one in three kids are. that is alarming. in activity contribute to this problem. certainly, when we talk about obesity, we are talking about the risk for chronic illnesses like hypertension and cardiovascular disease, as well as chronic kidney disease, being the subject of poor diet and related to this counterbalance. you need to be concerned about your calories but you also need to have a physical activity. host: is that being seen more amongst the children or across- the-board? guest: that is across the board. adults get about 150 minutes per week. they do not.

children should get at least 30 minutes per day. that is needed to balance the calories in. host: looking at the specifics as far as the recommendations, people have probably seen these before consuming a variety of vegetables, eating whole grains, increasing the amounts of fat free or low fat milk. guest: for the omega three fatty acids that are found in fish. those outweigh the concerns seen in the past. 8 ounces will give it the cardiovascular benefits from those amino acids. also, for women who may become pregnant or who are pregnant, there are some benefits from those of fatty acids in terms of cognitive and visual

developments for fetuses. there is a great number of benefits. the risks are no longer significant. and they are minimal if anything. that leads to a contribution to protein food. host: if we know what we are supposed to eat and how much, and how much we are supposed to exercise, why are we not doing these kinds of things? guest: i think in the environment we see a lot of tugs on our priorities every day. we have seen a change in the food supply. a greater array of more convenience foods. we see a change in the way we designed cities so people spend less time walking to school or to work or walking to the bus or train. we have seen what i call leading to the state of critical mass, where suddenly we have made a

lot of effort to adopt our food choices and our environmental choices to meet the demands of today. but we need to consider redesigning those. host: it is too easy to get food and the food that we get is not great for us. guest: in some cases, there is inadequate access to health the food. bringing access to healthy foods is a very important initiative. in a seemingly populated area, you could have an inability to get fresh fruits and vegetables because they are not perhaps in demand or not purchased and available at local stores. it could be because of the geographic area, miles to get to the nearest grocery store that gives you foods to contribute to

a healthy eating pattern. host: our guest is talking about the u.s. dietary guidelines, and you can ask him questions in many ways. if you would like to call him -- if you want to e-mail us, e-mail us at -- or you can send us a tweet. do most people know how much they eat, calorie-wise, every day? guest: if you look at the overarching themes of the guidelines, why is calorie balance and the other is consuming more in nutrient-dense foods.

one big message is people need to know that -- they need to work at building a healthy eating pattern. host: here are the dietary guidelines for americans from the department of agriculture. can we find this on the website? guest: on january 31, the document was released and is available using new technology. it is there on the web. host: new jersey's, first up for our guest robert post. go ahead. caller: yes, i have a question. host: go ahead. caller: go right now? to alaska, and daniel is on our democrats' line. caller: i think your guest for

his insights. i think this goes back to the whole cultural development of the direction our country is headed in. i am a commercial fishermen. i have had very many serious injuries which drove me to the obese point. normally i am around 175. after injuries, i went up to 240 and had to readjust my metabolism back to where i could get my muscular body again. in doing that, i did not really adjust my food. i adjusted my activity. i consumed the calories that i put in my body -- in fact, i ate more. what i see happening now in our culture is that we have gotten so instant gratification- oriented to where we just take

something off the shelf and shoved it in our face. our jobs have gone the same way. the screen time is what set me off on this. that is what really set me off. we are in this mentality where we are dependent on corporations and the private sector to provide these 200,000 jobs a month that we need. what happened to the handyman? what happened to the independent two jobs here and there? host: we will leave it there. guest: i think we have to depend on corporations and businesses, particularly in the food area, to make a deliberate and affected changes to the food choices available in the marketplace. we know that and we recognize that. if you look at the recommendations for reducing the sodium content of foods, it is a

very robust recommendation that demands a deliberate reduction in reformulating foods toward the lower level of 2,300 milligrams. that is an example of the expectation that we have with this set of dietary guidelines. host: is there a way to put that in perspective? guest: that is about a teaspoon of salt. the choices we should be making are the less salty snacks, for example, or replacing snacks with fruits and vegetables. that would offset the intake of that amount of sodium. today, we are on average consuming about 3,400 milligrams. that is what is leading to the millions of individuals, about 74 million americans, that are

suffering from hypertension. host: off of twitter -- guest: let me say that canning does not dissolve the addition of salt, so you need to be selective in choosing lower sodium products, certainly those that might be helped by labeling. always look at labeling when you look to your food choices. we have concluded that frozen vegetables, fresh vegetables, they all provide the nutrients that you need. you can make your selection among frozen, fresh, or canned vegetables. host: boston, mass., market is on our republican line. caller: i agree with a lot of what your guest is saying. i want to bring up the food itself has been debased as far

as its nutrient value. the soil has been depleted over the years. also, the federalization that is being sprayed on the crops is basically a chemical concoction of a very hazardous materials of different types of byproducts being formulated into fertilizer and being sprayed onto our crops. all of these chemicals and nutrients in the food are making people eat more to try to get the same nutrient levels that they did 50 years ago. i think that might be contributing to it as well. we need more legislation that would promote the smaller, healthier farmers that are more local-based instead of

supporting legislation that only benefits large agricultural business, the scenes to the legislation supported by our government. i think that is where the big changes have gone on in the past 40 years or 50 years, that there are no more small dairy farmers or small truck stop food anymore. the food out there is definitely low quality. guest: cuellar, the first thing i should emphasize is that both usda and hss in this effort use the latest methodology in our research. we do compile evidence, looking at evidence, the quality of the research that has been conducted since the last reiteration of the guidelines. the idea that the depletion of soil or any of those environmental or pesticide factors affect food could be found in the evidence.

the questions that were raised about our dietary guidelines committee, they reported to boot secretaries this last summer. that is the basis for these guidelines. that is a comprehensive report of the current evidence. so, the current evidence does not reflect the points that a been raised by the collar. the evidence indicates there isn't adequate nutrient levels found in foods today. it is a matter of choosing the right foods to meet your nutrient needs within your calorie needs. that is one of the basic points behind this set of guidelines. host: a revelation was made earlier this week >> i must admit personally that i have never read the dietary guidelines until i got this job. [laughter] but i read them in detail.

i realized how significantly different my eating habits were from what constituted a healthy pattern. personally, my life has changed by virtue of these dietary guidelines. my wife and i are now following the guidelines we look at what we eat and we are very, very concerned about calories in and out. host: is it hard to enjoy food in your line of work? guest: actually, no. we have learned to appreciate picking fruits that meet our preferences. that is also a point raised in these dietary guidelines. the secretary certainly is an advocate. we are glad to know that he is following the food patterns that are advised, because it is a matter of choosing more healthy foods. you can still have your indulgence is.

there is a subset of calories that are those where you can have your slice of pizza or your piece of cake. i do that, too. but the idea is to certainly choose more often those foods that have less calories from saturated fat or added sugars and refined grains. choose more often the foods that are in nutrient-dense. even something as simple as making half your plate fruits and vegetables, that will displace more of the food contributing to empty calories. host: does the report directly address fast food? guest: it does. one of the areas of research that develop the report on which the guidelines are based -- we found that the proximity and closeness of fast foods does in

fact contribute to wait to gain. it is more of a concern for children because eating once a week out could contribute to the kinds of calories from those dietary components i mentioned it. just once a week. perhaps, that is a consideration. choose more wisely when you eat out. choose foods that are the healthier options if you are going to eat out. that is not necessarily occurring today. host: jonathan is on our independent line. caller: do you recommend a vegetarian diet? also, if you could go into more detail about some of these programs he was talking about as far as availability of healthy food. it has become quite obvious to

me how much more expensive is to eat a healthy diet. thank you. guest: on the issue of vegetarian approaches, one of those landmark differences in these dietary guidelines compared to 2005, there is a look at the evidence of the research to show there is no one western-style diet. there is flexibility in these guidelines in building a healthy eating pattern. the flexibility considers taste and cultural preferences. what we have done in the way we have approached the group plan -- in fact, there is a fantastic reference in the back of the guideline which shows the usda food pattern. we have modified those patterns to account for a lacto-ovo vegetarian approach. your protein sources could come

from nuts and seeds or all plant-based protein sources. you could live on a healthy eating pattern and thrive by just using those kinds of foods. so we have accommodated that with these guidelines. there are many efforts working with the industry we have seen some tremendous efforts by industry folks. wal-mart is working together with the first lady, announcing a consideration for making more foods that are lower in added sugar and sodium, more healthy, and making them available. we have seen efforts to get more local foods available, certainly more fresh fruits and vegetables available in schools, so there are a lot of those programs under way right now. host: detroit, michigan, good morning. caller: good morning. i have a question. when i was growing up, it seems

like kids in the neighborhood were always on bicycles. however, our rainbow of colors to eat was kind of based like on fruity pebbles and cap'n crunch. recently, i had major back surgery. just like the gentle man that went to 240 pounds, the same with me. when i started embracing the rainbow of fruits and vegetables, i literally eat like a horse. i have carrots, all mins. it is amazing the kinds of things you get. we get bombarded by a marketing campaign, like little kids watching nickelodeon and happy meals and things like that. how do we get kids off of a

high-fructose diet and embrace this stuff? this should be the foundation of teaching in our schools. i thank you for the call. guest: one important feature with these guidelines is that they serve as the basis for nutritional education. on your last point, the guidelines will now help nutrition educators and health professionals develop educational programs that will get to schools and to communities where we need involvement in learning to change eating behaviors. we understand that there is a value in a variety of fruits and vegetables. one thing i should note is that we have acknowledged that there is a variety of vegetables. we have redistributed those that are beneficial. it read festivals' a should get

their fair share of that distribution -- read vegetables -- red vegetables should get their fair share of that distribution. host: illinois, good morning. caller: i am from illinois and i am a farmer. i heard the guy from massachusetts say how big farms are using a lot of chemical fertilizer and stuff. ever since i have lived out here, we have used chemical fertilizer. i get tired of the myth that is put on in these people in big cities, saying that farmers are not raising good food. anyways, i want to get away from that. one of the things you said you looked at about what goes on in society and the relationship of how people eat and whether they

eat healthy or not -- one of the things that bug me is i will be standing in the grocery store line. these people in front of me got food stamps. they are buying all of their food and everything. they will buy beer and sugar and stuff. as i am going -- did you ever look at what the food stamp program does to the people in society? we already have a policy of cheap food. you give us farmers payments, which i wish would go away to make cheap food. the other thing is our lifestyle. we have over a 50% to force rate. people stop their mouths full of food when they are upset. guest: obviously, the food environment is very complex. as i mentioned before, the

proximity to a supermarket that has an adequate supply of fruits and vegetables becomes a concern and a point for change. there is a spectrum of issues here. we do know is that there is a need for all americans to eat a healthier diet. we also know that about 15% of our american households are food insecure. getting food on a plate becomes a concern. the food assistance programs that the usda conducts are meant to provide food for those families that are food insecure. host: reagan, tenn., on our democrats' line. caller: i would like to thank the person on the program this morning. i think a lot of people get beat

up on c-span for what they try to do. one question i would like for him to answer is how much do you think technology contributes to obesity and things of that nature? i grew up in the 1980's on a farm. the labor laws were not as bad in the 1980's. i grew up on a farm. we all work together and played together. we were outside. the calories that we took in, we burned them off and used them. luckily, i was raised in a large family. we all work and we played and we did physical activities. now, everybody is sitting in front of a computer screen at

work or video games. much ofthink it is so the food and sugar. you have to burn those calories out. also, i was wondering why the government pays small farmers and stuff to not farm their land. guest: the point about technology and life style changes is an important point and is recognized in the science that went into building these guidelines. we do recognize that foods have reflected or do reflect our sedentary lifestyle, in some cases easier to pick up a prepared meal because of the kinds of life styles that we

lead. even if it is a matter of convenience, those suits could be formulated to be healthier, lower in calories and in saturated fats or perhaps containing more fruits and vegetables. i think that is one change we expect to occur. on the average, we spend about two seconds making a decision in the supermarket. there are ways to make healthy choices. for example, providing information on of labeling which is an instant picture of the saturated fat where the calories -- or the calories from recognizing that physical activity needs to balance calorie intake is an important point here and there is effort in the federal agencies to ponce -- sponsor and get more physical activity in schools today.

host: are we the only nation that has food guidelines? guest: international a there are other countries that face the same problems we do. there are increases in the trend toward diabetes type 2 and developing pre-hypertension or hypertension and it is not a matter of one style of diet. there is an influence because we find more votes globally that contain more saturated fats and more shares than beneficial nutrients. host: los gatos, calif., independent line. caller: i know there is a lot of sodium in canned goods. i try to stay away from canned goods completely. i know the reason is to preserve the product. can they make it without sodium? is that possible? thank you for being on the air. guest: actually, there is a trek

to the food technology and that is another part of the answer to the technology question. food science has death to become more complex. to get to the convenience aspect, food science has become more comprehensive. the idea that salt is needed for preservation or needed to form the food we expect, there is science to deconstructs the sole factor in making food. when it comes to vegetables, it is a matter of taste and a matter of adjusting tastes. these guidelines acknowledge that tastes need to change and there is an effort right now in the food industry to reduce sodium content slowly and perhaps invisibly so that our palates can actually become accustomed to lower sodium content which can occur over time. host: a viewer in alexandria

asks that the ingredient content does not make good standards and to abandon the effort. guest: the dietary guidelines are written generally for the u.s. population, the general population. we need to set a bar and targets for acre help the american public. there is a consideration that individuals because of their personal needs -- perhaps they are athletes or need a higher calorie intake -- the guidelines don't address that kind sub- population. it is a matter of setting the bar for the general population. i would say there are a lot of athletic organizations that

probably will help build those eating patterns for those who expend more energy in exercise. host: please ask about the changing food pyramid. were they advising is wrong for decades? guest: the food pyramid has been around since 1992. it is somewhat confused with the dietary guidelines. it is one way of communicating the dietary guidelines or applying them. there are many other ways to implement the dietary guidelines. nutrition facts labels is another way to implement the guidelines. the pyramid is another tool. it has to change to reflect the current the patterns that are advised. we have announced on january 31 when we released these guidelines that we are contemplating a new generation of the food pyramid, a different visual approach to signify the

need for reminding people to make health here few choices. host: potomac, maryland, our democratic line. caller: thank you so much. i think the sense of priorities should translate into a more multi-level approach. many different departments should be sitting on the same platform and discuss the issue. the school education, the public transport system, entertainment industry, food industry, and the health-care industry should all be on one platform and see the different facets into this massive issue which will affect the future economically, the

obesity, the diabetes and all these things. do you see this kind of approach in the future? guest: that is an excellent question. it is one we do address in this federation of the dietary guidelines. we considered that there is a social ecological from work and it takes more than an individual, it takes a family, it takes a community, it takes every layer of the public sector as well as state organizations and involves the private sector. everyone has a role to play to improve the health of americans and take these guidelines and apply them. there is a consideration of that comprehensive approach where everybody has a role to play. we would like to see these guidelines would be implemented and should be implemented where people learn in school where

they receive health care and they should be applied and communicated where we prepare foods and purchase boots. that is the goal for the communications effort for these guidelines for this year and the next years to come. host: north carolina, you are next. caller: yes, i use cane sugar. i used see celt which is not been processed. host: what is your question? caller: i want to ask a question about food. host: go ahead. caller: m y on the air? host: yes, you are. caller: i used sea salt and cane sugar which has not been processed but what about genetically engineered foods? i have read an article that they feted to rats and because their

stomachs to swell up. i am scared of it. they are doing it simply because many people do not want that food. you talk about vegetable protein but everybody needs this in moderation because it has certain vitamins that people need like b-12 and others. host: thank you. guest: i can't speak to the genetically modified organisms. they are not related to the science that went to building the dietary guidelines. there are many agencies in the public sector as well as organizations in the private sector that study the safety of any foods that are produced through biotechnology. i will leave that aside i will address the issue of protein and protein sources. in this iteration of the guidelines emphasize there is

not one model or prescription for an eating pattern. you can choose your protein sources from a variety of places. we have read and what was known as the beans group that we are advocating more seafood for fatty acid benefit. we are also advocating that you can source your proteins from nuts and seeds as well. we acknowledge that people eat meat and poultry. lean meat and extra lean has its place. in late meal pattern, a healthy meal pattern and that is acknowledged in this guideline as well. host: this is from twitter? -- guest: my response to that is that i go back to the evidence.

i did not mention this earlier but there is a data base, nutrition evidence library.gov where any member of the public can look at and see the data that went into the analysis to form these recommendations. it is publicly available and has been very transparent. the issue of sugar is there is naturally occurring sugar making more food choices in terms of fruits and vegetables that contain carbohydrates in sugar and other carbohydrates, there is nothing wrong with that. choosing foods that have excess amounts of added sugar is the problem. we are consuming far more -- 60% of our calories come from food that where there are excess of amounts of -- 16% of our calories come from food where there are excess amounts of sugar.

we all need carbohydrate. s in the range of 45% but we don't need calories from added sugars. specifically looking at ingredients on labels is crucial to decide if you want to buy that product because it has those added sugars which lead to empty calories. host: democrat line, next. caller: our recent new governor from michigan, rick snyder, said in the state of the state address that he will remove pricing on separate items and that will save $2 billion for grocery stores. doesn't that translate into a regressive tax? that $2 billion will mean that we won't know exactly what we are paying for until we get to the checkout counter. don't you feel this is a regressive tax in disguise guest: the issue of economic

incentives or price issues with regard to food is not addressed in these guidelines. besides that went into building them -- the science that went to building on top of any more food for choices in the supermarket that contain more of the nutrients that we need and more wholefoods that we need. my response to that is we hope the demand changes with the increasing demand, you would get perhaps prices for foods that decrease. with a demand for more food that are less process that contain large amounts of saturated fats, for example, that might very well lead to increased demand and an effect on prices and a good way. host: north carolina, is next. caller:are you there?

wrong button. let's go to detroit, michigan. caller: good morning to you. my question regards the gmo's as well. i assume the basis for these nutritional guidelines is to improve the health of the public. how can you set aside genetically modified foods when it has an impact on the system and there are studies that show it has a very detrimental impact on the system? guest: the effort to look at the current nutritional science -- this is evidence that is available at nutrition evidence elaborate.gov. the advisory committee looked at

these recommendations. they did not find or refer to or even include the consideration of any concerns about biotechnology or genetically modified organisms or these foods. the effort here is to get at the idea that we need to look at food for our nutrients. we need to look for more nutrient-dense food when we make selections. we need to balance that with calorie considerations and certainly with physical activity. host: the last call is from alabama. caller: i want to make a comment along these lines. 70% of health costs are self- inflicted. there are four factors and i have added a fifth concerning health costs.

smoking, eating, eating, drugging, and lawyers. there is absolutely no incentive for people to take care of themselves. i go to wal-mart frequently and they have little buddies that people ride around in. they still buy candy and sugar. i am wondering that if there is no incentive for people to take care of themselves, how are we going to solve this problem of last week with paying for health problems? guest: we have a road map with these guidelines for every level of society to contribute. there is the individual aspect or individuals and families need to be -- need to make better choices. there is a consideration that we need to help this through efforts to get more information on labeling but also to

recognize there is a health-care costs. both secretary of tom vilsack and sibelius recognize that health care costs are importance of prevention of health concerns is what is important. if these guidelines are a road map to preventing chronic illnesses related to diet, we have a chance and that impetus with a very robust and highly scientific, grounded document to set the path forward to improve americans' choices. health costs are a concern and productivity is a concern. a healthier america is a more productive host:: the information on the report can be found at the u.s. fda.gov website. -- usda.gov website. coming up in our next and final segment, we will look at

security along the u.s.-canadian border. my guest will be with the u.s. to accountability office but we want to give you a promotion for our program for tomorrow, " newsmakers." janet napolitano will be on and you could hear it tomorrow evening. she spoke with reporters about a wide range of issues. one thing she spoke about was airport security including scanners at pat-downs. >> you are hoping to have 1000 of these new technologies canners in place by the end of the calendar year. as the budgeting process gone in the way of that? will you meet that target or are you struggling? >> i think will we will be able to meet this target a we're targeting the next wave of software which has a much more gingerbread man type of image on it. we are always moving to address

some of the concerns that were raised. the reason we do the pat downs is because of the intelligence and the threat. we know that mutallab was evidence that our adversaries understand that explosives hidden in certain areas are much like -- less likely to be found. they know of our sensitivity, our privacy sensitivities. we recognize that and respect that. with the new technologies, we have a better way to find non- metallic substances. we have magnetometers but they cannot find a non-metallic substance. with pat downs, we ultimately pat down a small number of passengers. what was found through thanksgiving and christmas during the travel. , was that passengers themselves did not like it but they did not dislike it

"washington journal" continues. host: in the pages of the wall street journal this morning, there is a story looking on canada and the united states and looking at improving ties on the borders. there is a plan for deeper collaboration in areas from cargo screening methods to intelligence sharing inside their common perimeter. calls for common standards for screening travellers entering the united states and canada and looks to integrate the system. can you talk about this relationship as far as the security along our borders? guest: the agreement they are talking about is not quite finalized. it may take some months to hammer it out. they are trying to harmonize the system for inspecting travellers

and cargo and make sure that intelligence and information flows freely to the law enforcement agencies in the best position to do something with it. we've touched on those issues in our latest report on a smaller scale. we did the northern border but there is a ways to go. the royal canadian mounted police are part bring with us on the northern border. they have cooperated with us. if this kind of agreement can be made where we can harmonize procedures and intelligence sharing, we can go further but there are issues to work out. host: howdahs sovereignty work? guest: the united states has certain provisions that allows for law enforcement to carry weapons at points of inspection. that is not possible in canada. there has been some loosening of that in recent months and years. we can fingerprint people. you have to have certain reason to believe that something might be wrong to fingerprinting in

canada. there is always the issue in north america that we don't want to be the heavy handed big brother and we want to work with the canadiens and the mexicans to harmonize to the extent we can but we may run into constitutional and other sensitivities. host: as far as the ability along the northern border for various areas to connecticut with each other about information on people going back and forth, how well is that communication? guest: right now, they do the best they can. our customs and border protection along with rcmp communicate often. these kinds of arrangements will help standardize procedures when a cargo container lands in halifax and is going to be en route to detroit. you may not have to do the same kind of inspection again as it crosses the u.s. border if we are convinced that the initial inspection at halifax was done

well and the seals on the container were not broken or tamper with. host: amongst the 4,000 miles of northern border, 32 reached an acceptable level of security. guest: that was the part of the report the got the most attention. that means that the border patrol is satisfied that for those 32 miles and that has been up to 69 miles since our report was finished it, that the border patrol feels confident that when an individual or contraband across the border, that they can detect it, a detour it, or apprehended individual and seized the contraband in question. there is a high level assurance they can do that. it is not 100%. they are comfortable with that 69 miles that not much of anything will get by. that leaves another 3,940 miles. that is the problem.

host: what are chief among those problems? guest: our report was aimed at participating law enforcement agencies on the northern border. most of our work has been geared on the southern border and there is a different way of looking at the two borders. in the southern border, you have hundreds of thousands of economic migrants moving north in an attempt to find jobs. you have drug cartels tried to move product across the border. the northern border does not have the flows of people but you do have criminal organizations attempting to move drugs and other contraband you have criminal organizations attempting to move people and there have been instances where terror organizations have been known to exit near the border on both sides. we need to keep an eye on that. host: security along the u.s. and canadian border is our final topic. you can ask questions by calling

the numbers on your screen. cspnwj is the twitter address. could you explain the various sectors and to concentrate on along the canadian border? give a brief example of what we're talking about and the level of concern you have on security. start with the western side. guest: the very western and all the state of washington. spokane is the next one has to go east. that covers part of the state of washington, idaho, and part of the state of montana. those are areas where there is mainly a marine threat and air threat and blaine which is on the coast or low-light aircraft

bringing drugs and other contraband into the country. the border patrol and other agencies may not have the correct technology to detect those moving aircraft and boats on the water. they don't have as much as host: we need to need. host: move onto the detroit sector. that as long as the amount of miles to guest: that is the great lakes . there are rivers entering into lake erie and small boat marinas and those locations. boats can come and docket on low people and contraband very easily and without detection. recreational fishermen, a boat going from the u.s. or canada or the other way can't mix together and go in a certain direction. it is hard to detect host: what

is the response from the united states government have to beat guest:? each one of the sector as you mentioned and the one you did not talk a s iswanton which is above the state of maine. the federal government needs to make sure that we have the mechanisms in place to take full advantage of all the federal, state, local, tribal, and canadian law for some agencies to work together to detect these plans and take the appropriate action. host: shunnedswanton -- you mention swanton. guest: it is wide open. you can transfer said without any problem at all of the 69 miles that we discussed, i don't believe any of them work inswanton. host: what has to be shown for anybody crossing the border? guest: at ports of entry, if you

have taken a vacation and you want to cross at niagara falls, you stop at a turnpike-type exit. you can either present a western hemisphere travel initiative card, a passport, or a machine- readable passport and that information is scant income was up on the screen. the individual border patrol the, ofo person looks at the information and let you go. if something is not right, they consented to a secondary area for further questioning or if you are pulling cargo. between the ports of entry, the border patrol does it patrolling or has centers in the ground and if it detects a movement of people, will send personnel to see who is coming across. it is a wide open border. there's maybe 1500 border patrol

agents up there for that 4,000 mile expense. anse. host: how many people have to move across it to be detected guest:? even if you aaa center, how long does it take to respond to that sensor -- even if you respond to this answer, how long does it take to respond? it may take some time. state and local law enforcement is involved. tribal law enforcement is involved. forest service on forest service land. it is not only the border patrol. it is a difficult situation. the threat is different on like the southern border. the northern border, you don't seek large flows of people. the concern is that the people who do come across, we have to make sure they will not cause problems. there are bad people that either bring bad things into the country or wish us harm.

host: are these protocols efficient enough? guest: we found instances where the court a nation has improved among the agencies. all too often, the answer is no, the lanes are not very well marked. people are in each other's lanes and get jealous over results, jealous over information and intelligence. they don't work together all the time like they should. what is needed is for the agencies in washington to make it very clear who is supposed to be in what lane and under what circumstances and how far jurisdiction extends. host: m areou's. guest: memoranda of understanding and that spells out which agency is responsible for what and how they are to share information and

intelligence in daily operations. host: we are discussing security along the canadian border. democrats' line first. caller: i traveled from omaha to texas in a greyhound bus. i have been doing that for years. this last year in dallas when i transferredbusses, a couple of marshall's or i did not know what agency they were from, they proceeded to search and ask everybody where we were going and what our final destination was and how much money were you carrying over $10,000. what agency is that? when did we start searching people in the middle of the united states? guest: that is a good question.

that does not happen with frequency but it happens from time to time. without knowing more about the situation, it could have been a border patrol unit that was tipped off to the movement of people or money, cash, weapons on a certain bus. the border patrol has been known to make its presence known at certain bus depots along the southern tier because they know that bus stations are often pointed movement for smuggled aliens. you may have been on a bus that was of interest to the border patrol or it could have been a different operation. host: someone under asks on twis -- guest: it is true of airlines that you and i would fly free the men step -- manifest information is checked for the

passenger background. it does check to see any background that agencies should be concerned about. host: madison, wisconsin, republican line. caller: yesterday on c-span, i saw president obama standing next to the prime minister of canada he said that while we match up pretty well with canada, there were some differences and some core principles. i am wondering if you know what some of them might be. guest: good question, we did work three years ago on what was known as the shared border initiative. it pertained to the poet -- port of entry in buffalo. it is a crowded port of entry with a park on one side and a neighbor and the other and yet there was all kinds of truck and passenger traffic. maybe we could have gotten some space on the canadian side to

pre-inspected for people across the peace bridge and that would cut down on the need for more land on the u.s. side. speaking with our officials in canada, we learned there are some constitutional issues that would have to be resolved. they would be difficult to resolve. at that time, the canadian inspection of cars were not permitted to carry sidearms. hours are armed. fingerprinting is not something that can be done on suspicion. you have to have reasonable cause to fingerprint somebody. those are two key things we used to identify -- to do the job, fingerprints' for identification and being armed in a potentially dangerous environment. there are others but those of the kind of things that i think he is referring to that would have to be worked out if we were going to totally harmonize the border. it may not be possible to do

those things. the goal is to make it as efficient and effective as possible to inspect the movement of people and cargo. the idea is to move lawful cargo and people as quickly and efficiently as you can and the. detec, deter, or deal with individuals that are illegal. host: how much effort does the united states manpower have along the border? guest: they have about 1500 agents. there are nearly 2000 agents on the southwest border. it is a different risk and the northern border but the resources are fewer. it is fair to say on the northern border that we rely much more heavily on state, local, tribal, and other law enforcement than we do on the

southwest border. host: what does the canadian side contribute as far as manpower? guest: there are joint operations that are done like on the great lakes. when you get into certain jurisdictional areas, you can deal with whatever potential wrongdoing you see a would not have u.s. blog versus canadian law. they participate in task forces. they can monitor a certain area are two other operations. they find a tunnel under one side, they will alert the parties on another side. the canadians have been a good partner. host: selma, tennessee, go ahead caller. caller: i am paralyzed can i draw social security. -- and i draw social security. host: let's go to new jersey.

caller: i have two questions. i know that on our southern border, many of our states that federal lands and parks where local law enforcement cannot go. is that a problem in canada also? the second question is -- do you have any idea of the budget for overseas border security that we give in israel and afghanistan? what is our budget here? guest: thank you for the question. i don't know with certainty on the budget. on the northern border we spent $3 billion on northern border security resources in fiscal year 2010. as far as national parks, we finished a review of law enforcement on federal land. that is available on our website w atww.gao.gov.

you can put in force on federal lands in the search area. what we found is that the border patrol has to operate in environmentally sensitive areas. it is on like other areas for they cannot get into their vehicles or airplanes and get to the intended spot by the straightest route. they cannot cross over certain areas or they have to be careful of certain water areas. they say it is not a big degrading factor but it is something to limit them are the biggest issue is how well the forest service, law enforcement officials, and the border patrol work together. that has been a problem in the past and continues to be a problem. for example, the forest service has a series of sensors underground on the northern side to detect movement of people

into environmentally sensitive areas which could include grizzly bears. the border patrol did not want to use those centers. there might have been a capability issue but it is an area where they just have to work better together to achieve the same goal we are all searching for. host: new york, on our democrats line, go ahead caller: for the last 40-50 years, we have done a lot of cross-trade myself with people up in canada. we buy our fish, fruits, vegetables, and meat. i got the enhanced license so i could cross the border because the birth certificate is not good anymore. we are now confined to only $50 or 50 pounds worth of meat and we cannot bring any live fish across the border. that is totally wasted the enhanced a license and it has killed the trade cross border

with canada. can you speak to that, please? guest: i can speak to the issue of getting across the border quickly. this is to act as a pre- inspection. your identity information is on that card and it can be scanned. the person inspecting you at the port of entry can more quickly move you across the border. as far as what the federal government whether it is the usda or what ever has specified the limits of fish or other produce or whatever goods brought across the border, i am not familiar with that. pat is more of a food and drug administration in d oroi agriculture issue. host: there are concerns about trade. guest: that is the thing, you want to have the effect of movement, the efficient about people and cargo across borders. if you are making auto parts in

windsor, canada and gm or ford or chrysler is counting on the products in time in detroit, you want to have assurance that you can move across that ambassador bridge and be inspected very quickly. there is a program call f.a.s.t. which helps meet that goal. if you go across another border and you do not have the documentation, it can be a problem. when the economy was healthier, backups were 60-90 minutes in pitons which is very long. you were trying to get goods across the border. you don't want to diminish the security side. you don't want to pass over another 9/11 pilot. you could detect that person. how many of those are there? that is a needle in the

haystack. you have to move the vast majority of cars. host: democrats line, go ahead caller: i live in arizona. there are many illegals here because the border patrol is very corrupt. it has been corrupt for the last nine years. the border patrol has never served the american people. it has always serve agri- business. as long as we have jobs for those people and don't enforce sanctions, people will be coming over here. the cartel's know where the border patrol is corrupt and they will use those routes to bring drugs and all sorts of crime comes over here. guest: there have been instances of border patrol and customs officials at ports of entry being found to be corrupted. we have done studies on this. it is a very small minority of the total force. i have been on night and day patrol for the last 14 years,

but probably dozens of times. it is a very professional force. i have seen and carry out laws in a very professional way. if there is a problem that we need more people from other countries to come and work, we need to change our immigration laws. the border patrol made to enforce the laws that are on the books. host: wisconsin, on our republican line. caller: i am a disabled american veterans. i have friends and family that lived in alaska. i have had a drunken driving ticket in the states. they won't let me across the border to go north. is there some way we can work with canada to let americans into alaska guest:? without knowing the specifics of your background and record and why that would trips

something, my advice would be to contact your congressman to see what might be done to allow you to travel across the canadian border to get to alaska. short of taking a cruise ship which you might not be in a position to do, the canadians have their rules and their laws. it is up to them to enforce their own laws. i don't know the specifics of the case so i'm afraid i cannot give you much more advice. host: alexandria, va., independent line, go ahead. caller: are we going to have a comprehensive immigration law in the near future? guest: reform was intended in 2007. there was lots of discussion and lots of hearings. it failed to get much further than that.

the agreement fell apart over certain provisions, not the least of which was that many in congress want to make sure that the borders were secure before going ahead with comprehensive immigration reform which would provide a path to citizenship for those already in the country. historically, immigration reform has been a second term issue if you look back to the reagan built in 1986 and clinton in 1996. it is usually a second term issue for the president. that does not say that won't happen this year or next year but that has been the trend. as far as enforcement, there have been some movement to standardize and national th livese e-verify system and that is where employers hire an individual, they confer with databases. it has been made mandatory in three states already and other states he there are on the

brink or seriously considering it. that is another enforcement tool portal laws on the books. when those laws on the books are likely to change is nothing i think it is certain host: going back to your report, what spurred the creation of this report? guest: we were asked by senator lieberman, centre collins, and others about coordination issues on the northern border. we know there are not the resources on the northern border. they are on the southern border because the rest are different -- the risks are different. last year they seized about 20 tons of drugs and if the projections are correct for the northern border, they apprehend

less than 25% of what is out there. how are we leveraging our resources? our people coordinating and are we making the most of what we have before we decide to give somebody more? we're asked to look at the ordination mechanisms, the history of the correlation problems, and what more can be done to address the kind of things you brought up like the 32 miles which is now about 69 miles. the need to get more situational awareness and the need to secure the northern border not so much from the hundreds of thousands of people but from contraband, drugs, weapons, currency, and some movement of people. host: does that mean what more can be done by the department of homeland security? guest: they need to get on top of thesetask teams they have created. they have two they created but

the problem is in many locations, the exact same people are in both teams. it creates duplication which is wasteful in other cases, we recommended the department of homeland security clarified who is supposed to be in a l whichane and who will enforce mou's? do people understand what their roles and responsibilities are and are not and how they are supposed to cooperate. with respect to getting on top of how much space is to open, we need for the department of homeland security to work with the states, the locals, the canadiens, the trouble, and other federal i,.c.e., forest service and the day to see what we have and the northern border before each individual component asks for more because they want to cover the border themselves. let's see what we can do in a coordinated fashion so we use -- we make the most of the tax

dollars we are getting and not causing more overlap and duplication host: surprise, ariz., good morning. caller: i have a question regarding the united states- canada border as far as when an illegal immigrants tries to get into canada and is refused admittance into canada because of their illegal status here or what ever, is there any communication between the canada border and the united states as to make them aware when they refuse the immigrant back into the united states to make us aware that they are an illegal alien? guest: i believe there is a procedure for that.

it is about whether the person left the united states legally or illegally. it would have to be a select situation for that to happen. canadian officials would turn the individual back over to u.s. officials. because the person is a legal resident of the united states but the person was not a legal resident of was transit and got across our southern border and headed north to get into canada and was not detected and i got to canada, they would notify our specials and our officials would in turn have to make arrangements to bring that person back down to their country of origin. that might entail some detention time for that individual or they might return that individual right to mexico or what ever country is their home countries host: does the e-verify come into play? guest: not unless they are

looking for employment. base.asked the dna data b they look at the documents and you go into a website and type in the particular information and within seconds, you can get a confirmed, eligible to work, were not authorized to work. 2.6% of the cases, they get a not authorized to work. the employer needs to notify the employee that they have a federal work days to straighten that out and get their information correct. sometimes somebody was married and their name changed. it is a matter of getting it straightened out. it is sometimes difficult to straighten that out. it can be straightened out.

the bigger emerging issue is that people who are not authorized to work are using documents of those who are. you show up and use ri i amch stanna -- you sure what i do say you are rich stanna but you are not. there might be 50 of me out there. the system is not perfect. i've never seen a federal system that is in my 35 year is ofgao. there are some things that have to be worked out. it will be a policy call as to how soon to make it mandatory across the country. host: bakersfield, california, republican caller:. i was a former canadian

citizen. what about your sources for tunnels and order activity? nothing has been really discovered on the northern border but the southern border, yes. i have not heard about any tunnels from canada. guest: there was a tunnel discovered. we made that point in our report underscored the lack of cooperation. there was heated discussions between the border patrol, before service, a i i believe.c .e. as to who was to claim credit for discovering the tunnel. i think it was in the spokane sector. there are not as many because it is not as difficult to get across the northern border. there is no fence. part of a grain field might be in the united states and canada. don't have the same technical

infrastructure in place to stop those things. there is one that i am aware of. host: chicago, caller: good: thank you for taking my call. it seems like the delay is longer on my telephone. many times, it seems helpful to see the expressions of the people you are trying to help with. this delay does not make that possible. my question would be -- if you could speak to the idea of what do you think the effect would be on security agencies paying better attention to the most potentially dangerous aspects of what they are supposed to be looking at if they did not have to have the burden of investigating the trafficking of cannabis plants.

guest: i think that is always a challenge for law enforcement to do their work in a risk-based way. i don't know of any law enforcement agency that has resources available to handle each and every potential or actual violation that falls under their jurisdiction. everywhere from local police up to the fbi, it is important. to the extent that you can classify and deal with some lesser threats in a way that does not take up a lot of resources, the better off you will. with respect to border security, it is difficult to know what is a threat and what is not a threat. there is low-growing ai aircraft -- there is slow- flying aircraft and they might not be a danger. they might be headed somewhere for a visit. there are also aircraft that are taking the drug loads down.

classifying which one is which is difficult that is similar on the southern border. it is important to classify the risks and use your resources in their most effective way and target them to the highest risk. it is not always possible. host: new york, go ahead caller: can you compare the two different borders, the united states vs. canada and france vs. germany and explain the differences and give reasons why. guest: the united states border -- the u.s.-canada border is different than the french/german border in the provisions of the eu. they have orders for a different reason. they are in the same economic sphere so you don't have the need for the same kind of inspection going across the borders in europe as far as eu membership then you do in the united states between canada and mexico.

host: buffalo, new york, good morning, thank you for waiting. caller: michael has a tugboat. every time he got -- my uncle has a tugboat. every time he comes in the canadian side of people are allowed to fish there. why? guest: i don't know why either. i don't know the exact circumstances of the non- canadian, non-u.s. tugboats. i don't know how they got there. sometimes it is a canadian or american firm that is acting on behalf of another firm. i imagine it is a problem of there. if it impacts the u.s. or canadian fisheries, perhaps that should be looked into host:. marysville, washington, linelican loss caller

caller: what would it take to open up the u.s.-canadian border totally upside-down have a pain in the but when i come back into the u.s.? it seems like it is worse than when i go to canada. it seems like canada wants people to come there and we don't. host: give an example caller: i recently retired from the military but when i was active duty, went to canada for one day. others up there for 145 minutes and crossed back across the border and the border agent grilling me because my license plate says ohio. i was in the country for an hour and 45 minutes and she told me that i drove from ohio to go in for one hour and 45 minutes. i had my lessons -- they had my license plate on the camera

already. i had a d.o.d. sticker on my car. clearly, they can understand the sticker. she stopped questioning made. e. who is trying to get in and out of canada on both sides of the border illegally? does anybody try to get into mexico illegally and are they returned to the u.s.? guest: there is no excuse for lack of professionalism on the part of a customs and border protection inspector at a port of entry. they are to treat everyone with courtesy and respect. to the extent that was not happening, i think you have a legitimate concern. with respect to the ohio license plate coming throughblaine,

they are instructed to examine anomalies. an ohio license plate in the state of washington is an anomaly. they are to ask a series of questions to satisfy themselves that you are eligible for entry into the united states. the might have had a lookout for a stolen vehicle or perhaps you met another profile that was on their screen that dead. ay. the lack of courtesy is something else. as far as people illegally entering the united states or entering from the united states to mexico, on the border last year in 2010, there were about 6000 apprehensions of people going south. many of those are either people who came from a foreign country and or in canada for a period time under some sort of