drawn out of their own districts, a couple of members who suddenly in the representing districts that are no longer their own ideological -- and a lot of members representing some voters that they have never represented before. there was a lot of turnover even if it does not affect. >> alex, he was hesitant to talk about who would run again because of redistricting. but he said to announce to expect announcements on new recruits. >> when your defeated, he has to come out of the cave earlier with some successes. you cannot wait too late in the cycle to make the announcements. you want to start recruiting early and it announced this in the next few months. ramp up that fund-raising chain. >> what are you hearing about who and where? >> they could come from all the

country. some of the young are members that serve their first term and have districts that are largely the same will end up staying. i think you might even see a few members that we all expect to retire run for their office, maybe decide to stay and stick it out. this redistricting process can be very bizarre and tricky. in indiana, they are not gaining a seat or losing a steep, but the state legislature will play with a lot of lines. they want to district out one member and the also the one democratic member, and they would not mind if another republican or to lose his seat because they do not like the guy. there's a lot of personal stuff, partisan influence, and this process could really throw a monkey wrench into a lot of plans. it is not surprising that people do not want to get involved in the race just yet. but there will be districts the will stay the same and son that changed dramatically.

>> we on this program had a representative clyburn. we heard steve israel tell us that is in constant contact with the ones that lost. what are we going to see? >> some of these people will run again. that is certainly what steve israel told to us today. q c people like melissa been of illinois run again? others were not expected to lose and did not think they will lose themselves. some of these people were now ready to lose and they will make the decision on whether to come back and not. >> raising people -- raising money, what is the like? >> all of the triple committees, they are all trying to is felt a massive amount of debt. the rnc is more than $9 million

in debt. that money is the hardest to raise. people don't -- they spend the first year getting out of debt. in the one year, and you see them raise a lot of money at the last minute. the new money focus is going to be on senate races and senate candidates, and they will suck up a bunch of money. i don't anticipate a lot of house candidates raising eight boatloads of money right now, but it will shortly. >> if you want the fall this more, go to "the hotline" and "the politico." thank you for being part of this discussion. we appreciated. >> that is not only one of the major challenges facing higher education in this country but our country. how we maintain a healthy lifestyle and get kids to have the strength in the judgment to

say no. >> gerald turner is the president of southern methodist university in dallas. he will discuss today's college students, fiscal as the site of the george w. bush presidential library, in his own road to smu. the patriot act passed after the 9/11 tax made it easier to conduct surveillance on terrorism suspect. with provisions of the bill in this month, lawmakers are trying to renew them. all the history of the bill through today online with c- span congressional chronicle where you can track the daily for action in the house and the senate time lines and transcripts of a recession. opel video mike -- archive for every member. >> now house intelligence hearing on the reauthorization of some u.s. patriot act surveillance programs and cybersecurity threats as well as the current terrorist threat

level to the u.s. you will hear from leon panetta, fbi print director, and the director of national intelligence, and james clapper during his 2.5 our event. this hearing took place on -- after mubarak said he would transfer power to the vice president and before he said he would resign. are eternally grateful for their sacrifices. i also want to welcome the committee's new ranking member. his dedication and talent may serve this committee well.

he is also a friend. it never hurts to have a former prosecutor on your side. i am looking forward to discussion and theuestions and answers that follow. i want to talk a moment or i would like to -- the committee to go and the new congress. taking a strong evaltion of the 10 years where the budget has grown exponentially and change significantly. the budget, cyber issues, and many others. it is a profound honor and a tremendous responsibility to a similar role of the chairman. the u.s. intelligence committee is vital to defending our nation for many threats that we face. i've no doubt that our hard work

for mark because -- intelligence professionals is the reason why there has not been successful attack since 9/11. despite numerous disrupted plot antel qaeda -al qaeda. our job here in congress is to make sure that our intelligence agencies have the tools and a 40 they need for their mission. and that we never stop working to improve the intelligence committee's effectiveness. we'll be critical when we need to be. we will be supportive of we can be. we will take a critical look at the policies which were given by policy-makers when you are asked to complete a mission. at begins with reasserting the committee for a series -- when it was established in 1977. i plan to do my part to restore that tradition. i will need the help from every member of this committee. i want to pass a meaningful

authorization bill. we are already working on the 2011 bill to be quickly followed by the fiscal yea 2012. the commission recommended that congressional authorization work more closely on intelligence matters. e house intelligence committee voted unanimously yesterday to allow appropriations members to participate in our hearings and briefings at our goal here is to close -- it might be frustrating for you on occasion, but at th end of the day, we will give a much better product for you to do your joband complete remissions. the 10th year anniversary of 9/11. they transformed our country and the way we view national security. many threats we have faced have continued to evolve. our response to keep pace.

whether they are positioned to face the threats of the future. congress has made a historic change is since 9/11 to update the laws that authorize and governor intelligence committee. we need to keep pouring to make sure -- working to make sure that the laws keep pace. critical provisions of the foreign intelligence surveillance expire at the end of this month. we need to authorize these provisions. they are needed for this modernizatn. the bill has been a vital in this -- has been vital to protecting our nation. we need to work toward making these tools permanent. we must reinforce legal

authority concerning detainee's. one of our best intelligence sources in the war on terrorism. we need to examine a system for intelligence collection and long-term detention that is flexible and can endure changing circumstances and challenges no matter where the detainee is picked up off the battlefield or in the war. executive orders are not good enough. this problem requires legislation at -- legislative action. the recidivism rate has reached an alarming rate, 25%. that is just the ones that we know of. we need to take a hard look at the detainee transfer and release process. we have never had a good debate over thenstitutions we put in place after 9/11 to prevent another attack. the national counterterrorism center to be more of a driven

organization. we need to move beyond the debate. this i a more important point. beside the staff, must certainly strength. the real issue is that what we are asking them to do. missions should drive the size of the staff, not an arbitrary number. you have shared them with me and other members of the committee. we want you to succeed. the fbi is a unique institution, straddling the foreign and domestic threats to our security. i am especially interested in the efforts of the fbi to build an ielligence service within a law enforcement agency. the fbi has made progress since 9/11 and has become much more intelligent striven. as the fort hood and how -- tragic -- tragedy showed, -- al

qaeda has increased the use of westerners and americans to penetrate our defenses. the thrift is further complicated by an acof violence by homegrown and south -- self radicalized american militants. we depend on the fbi to address this growing threats. our nation has invested heavily in our interest -- intelligence capabilities and 9/11. the intelligence budget has grown expontially. we have to reach an understanding about the return on the investment in terms of real improvement to our security. history is littered with examples of the consequences of nations that lived beyond tir means for far too long. the american people have become justifiably concerned about our budget deficit. we must seek greater efficiencies in the existing budget to refund new or expanded intelligence programs or return the savings to the

american people. achieving significant efficiencies will require some hard choices. i look forward to having a good discussion about the pros and cons of different approaches to getting there in the coming months and years i urge the intelligence committee to main open-minded about the alternative satellite architecture that could potentially meet current requirements at a much lower cost the taxpayer. i am studying my options carefully and i would suggest you do as well. while further budget growth is unlikely, i will will line againsany cuts that endanger our key intelligence capabilities. it is not a luxury. i want to avoid the mistakes of the 1990's. making sure that our troops have the best intelligence support possible is one of my highest priorities. i will focus more on that in the coming years.

it is the only authorization committee with jurisdiction over the national intelligence ogram and the military intelligence program budget. it is a unique position to ensure that our civilian and military intelligence efforts are integrated and coordinated. the reprogramming has not been provided to this committee. under house rules, we have concurrent jurisdictions with the armed services committee. this has been something that has been going on for almost three years. i am sure that it is a misunderstanding. i would appreciate your assistance in getting this problem resolved so that there are no unnecessary delays to the reprogramming of these funds.

the creation of a cyber command at fort meade was a step in the right direction. we believe some legislative changes to achieve the necessary unity of efforts across larger united states government. we have a great deal of talent and en it comes to cyber defense, we do not have the policies and aegal authorities to makyour job easier. the speaker of the house has passed the congress meant to lead the efforts. he will have the full support of the committee and the development of cyber security legislation. i believe we need to have a good debate over whether -- where to draw the boundaries of what the united states government defend and how we can help any critical and the structure or industry

players that are left outside the parameter of defense. the wikileaks fiasco should lead to an increased focus on information sharing whin the united states government. we miss critical opportunities to prevent the 9/11 attacks because of our failures to share information between government encies. the committee has made tremendous progress and 9/11. we cannot allow the wikileaks disaster to be an excuse to halt or reverse this programs. we need to make sure that we may learn the right lessons from wikileaks. the right lesson is to redouble our efforts to promote information sharing while protecting the security of that information. i like to call it smart access. it is the system -- in response

to that fiasco, the intelligence community and defense department has put together a good plan to implement smart access tools to detect our presence of data. -- are sensitive data. these long overdue fixes will not be cheap. i believe they are well worth the price and the investment by the american people. this committee will monitor the implementation of these fixes. with that, i look forward to working with you all. i look forward to your questions on the threats that face america. i know they e many. i kw the hours logged are also many. we have had the privilege of meeting many of you on weekends and nights. i hope that is not to lost on the american people.

with that, i want to thank you. i yield to the ranking member. >> thank you, mr. rogers. congratulations on your chairmanship. we commit to work together in a bipartisan way in this very serious issue that we deal with. director of the iowa, principal deputy undersecretary of defense for intelligence, director of national terrorism center, assistant secretary of state euro of intelligence and research department of state ambassad. i want to point out that karen

used to work with us on this committee. today, thank you for joining us here today. the hearing is a rare opportunity were members of the intelligence committee give an assessment of the threats we are facing around the world. on this committee, our highest priority must be keeping our country and citizens safe. the stakes are high and the challenges are great. we are committed to giving these ofessionals the resources and capabilities they need to counter the numerous threats that america faces. everything from all qaeda to homegrown terrorists living in the united states. at the same time, it is the responsibility to give a comprehensive oversight. we will demand accountability from the community and expect that we will be kept fully informed. our job is not to tear down the agencies, the build you up to be the strongest that you can be.

our role is orsight. good intelligence is the best way to prevent terrorism and keep the world safe. since ourast hearing in february of 2010, we have seen situations where -- saving countless lives. last october, to chicago bound bombs were placed on it ups and fedex planes in hopes of pulling them up. the plan was dispted. no one was injured because of good intelligence. in november, a somalian teenager planted to bomb a christmas tree lighting ceremony, but was caught in an undercover sting operation. a pakistani man from virginia was arrested for planning a simultaneous attacks. he was nabbed before anyone was hurt. because of good intelligence. we also know that we need to do better and we can do better. last may, a young man trained by

the taliban packed a van full of explosives in times square. a passer-by noticed that it was smoking and called police. the terrorist was sentenced to life in prison. you cannot turn on the television or open up a newspaper and not hear about the unrest brewing in the middle east. mass protests continued this week -- to sweep the region. president mubarak has agreed to step down in september. a new government will take over, but the protests have not subsided. egyptians deserve open and free elections. i know they look forward to the future of a greater freedom with a government that is fair and responsible egypt is an important ally in the rion. our goals remain the same. a stable middle east, a partner in the fight against global terrorism, and the protection of vital energy supplie

the future government of egypt must support the peace treaty with israel. are professionals are working diligently to provide the latest revolt -- intelligent about the situation in egypt. they do not have a crystal ball and cannot predict the future. we are always pushing him to give us more intelligence. in nearby iraq, forces are being drawn down. in afghanistan, a 30,000 troops search is under way. yemen, somalia, and pakistan are trouble spots when it comes to terrorism. america's national security it hinges on the security across the region. -- the stability across the region. the 10th anniversary of 9/11 is approaching this september. this sobering miltone the minds of our fight against terrorism and it is far from over. almost 10 years after the most

deadly terrorist attack, or principal challenges the same. identied terrorist plots and stop them before this hurts americans and our way of life. we must also address itself a radicalization and the threat of terrorism by americans in america. in addition to the oregon case, she pleaded guilty to terrorism charges. these are the people we have caught. we are more concerned about the one still out there that we have not. terrorism is not our only challenge facing national security. we must not forget about mexico. the violence in mexico is an american issue. police and elected officials who were taking a stand against the drug trade are being threatened and killed. we put so many resources into the middle east, we must also increase our support to mexico.

but it has a direct effect on american people and citizens. north korea and iran still pose a significant difficult to america. iran continues to stir up things and play a game of cat and mouse. the prospects for a diplomatic dialogue are not going anywhere. china and russia oppose their own national security issues. they are real issues in the steel is. we cannot ignore the fact that the chinese and other governments are engaging in cyber attacks. these attacks can cause big problemseven though they are gathering little national attention. cyber attacks -- they keep our electric grid running and protect our water supply. if these systems are disrupted,

it could have catastrophic consequences. we already have examples of what is possible. last week, the nasdaq was attacked. trades were not affected, but hackers penetrated certain internal software. the website wikileaks disclosed tens of thousands of classified documents that could put sensitive diplomacy in jeopardy. when mastercard, amazon, prevented their supporters from making donations, a group attacked these websites and shut them down for a period of time. cyber threats are real. the threat from cyber attacks is real and must be addressed. the last issue i would like to discuss the space. we have some of the best satellite but america is the most powerful country in the world because of the fact that we control the skies. satellites are important bause they keep us safe. wheezed into track suspected terrorist iran the world.

-- we used them to attract suspected terrorists around the world. when our troops climbed a hill on the battlefield, they know who was on the other side of that hill because of technology. we can find that needle in a haystack because we have the best satellites and the world trade you may have heard the president mention our sputnik moment. more than 50 years ago, the soviet union a rock star world by lnching sputnik into space. america entered the challenge and landed a man on the man. the space industry was born. american made a massive investment in research and development. america amid worldwide headlines in just about every kid on earth wanted to be neil armstrong. today, there is -- america's dominance in space is fragile.

when it comes to a rocket launch capabilities, other countries have seen costs drop, but the united states has not. we are spending more per rocket launch than anywhere else. the united states s committed to a to company alliance to handle all launches. other u.s. companies are showing promise. the must get costs under control. we must consider other approaches. we must in short every dollar is used wisely. you caught the good programs would be bad. we must review each program on its own merits. we mus identify what is working and get rid of what is not, including redundant program that cost us too much money. must do what is right for the american people to keep our

families and communities safe. i have great respect for the men and women of the intelligence committee -- communities. they live in the shadows. i refer them to the offensive linemen. you only hear about them when they make the mistake. i wanted knowledge these players for their service by giving them the research that they need to get the job done. >> this will be open portion of the hearing to approximately 12. we may push that to trouble >> 15. -- 12:15. >> i want to thank you for having this open hearing. it is a wonderful way to start this session. i pe we will consider the opportunity to have more of these. the american people need to know how our intelligence community is working to keep us safe. and have a classified hearing after word if need be.

thank you very much. this is very useful. >> i will turn it over -- >> thank you, rogers. i am very pleased to be proud to be joined by my colleags. the reason we are all here together is important to both before the -- the intelligence community is a team. is a community. i am very proud to be associated with my colleagues here today who represent hundreds of years of public service and involvement in the intelligence professionals. i want to comment on two of the organizations.

the fbi director has led a remarkable transformation of the as bite into intelligence driven organization. -- the fbi i into a intelligence-driven organization. i think we are doing a lot to change the paradigm about what has been a strange relationship between dni and cia. the cia is a national treasure. i am proud to be associated with the agency in this capacity. before i get into remarks, i want to say on behalf of all of us, we appreciate your support we need your oversights and engagement and your part -- and

your partnership. in past capacities, i have been associated with a few oversight committees. what i see happening here is a reversion to the original. spirit of what was intended these committees to be. i want to endorse something about the in portions of the patriot act extension. it expires at the end of this month. this is critically important to all of us. we know this is a matter of discussion and debate in both houses. we would favor a three-year extension to coincide with extensions -- it is not possible to cover this full scope of

worldwide frets. i want to take this opportunity to highlight four broad areas of significant concerns for u.s. national security. we have submitted a longer statement for the record that reflects the collective insights of extraordinary men and women. they're deeply committed to deliver -- to gathering intelligence. the first and foremost of these concerns is terrorism. counterterrorism is our top priority. intelligence committees to help avoid potentially devastating attacks. we have apprehended numerous

dangerous factors acrosthe world. we are deeply engaged with our foreign partners to detecand prevent terrorist actions and will remain vigilant despite the degradation of the organization against al qaeda to attack the west. we're especially focused on their resolve to target americans for recruitment and respond affiliate's across the world. we've seen disturbing incidents of self radicalization among our own citizens. the intelligence committee helped disrupt plots here in the united states. home grown terrorist are numerically a small part of the global threat, they have a disproportionate impact because they understand the connections here and have easier access to u.s. facilities. counterterrorism is simple to

our overseas orations. the people of the afghanistan are up against a determined insurgency. pakistan also confronts a terrist who threatened to destabilize the government and attack the citizens. although u.s. combat operations have come to an official close in iraq, it remains a high priority. another major concern is

proliferation and weapons of mass destruction. the proliferation threats environment is a fluid the arena that reflects the broader global reality and increasingly it free movement of goods and information. this environment is critical, it also allows the know-how related to chemical and biological nuclear weapons asell as missile delivery systems to be shared with ease. iran is a key challenge. we saw a popular movement challenging the authority of its government. we saw the iranian government cracked down on a partsf thoritarian control. we look forward to discussing iran more with you in closed session. we see a disturbing confluence of events.

iran continues to advance its uranium enrichment capabilies. north korea's nuclear weapons also pose a serious threat to both regionally and beyond. there is a willingness to be engaged in dialogue and cray's international recognition and. it has shown a troubling willingness. i want to highlight a major asset to the community, the reality that we live in an interconnected world where instability can rise and. quickly beyond the borders. examples of this include the seven fault of the regime indonesia -- in the '20s jazz -- tunesia.

questions have been raised. the answer, i believe, is yes. for many years, the intelligence committee has been aware of the instability in north africa and has reported on those tensions and their implications. specific triggers cannot always be known or predicted. intelligence can reduce the uncertainty for decision makers, but not eliminated. whether those decision makers are in the white house or the congress. but we are not clear volume. the intelligence committee has provided critical intelligence to allow this crisis and has been reporting on demographic changes, political expression for decades.

in our interdependent world, economic challenges have become paramount and cannot be underestimated we are also extremely focused on cyber threats and their impact on national security and economic prosperity. this threat is increasing and scope and scale and its impact is difficult to overstate. industry estimates that production of malicious software has reached its highest level yet, with an average of 60,000 programs each day. some of these are what we define as advanced persistent threats, which are difficult to detect and counter. we are seeing a rise in intellectual property and theft. it cost businesses approximately $1 trillion. we believe this trend has only

gotten worse. about much of 2009, said they had been the targets of systematic efforts to penetrate their networks. the entries and attempted to gain access -- drug trafficking, emerging diseases, water availability, humanitarian disasters, and other global issues. in the face of these challenges, we must remain attentive to all developments in all parts of the world. that is why we must sustain a robust balance our rate of intelligence capability to cope with this wide variety of potential threats.

i would also like to take a moment to emphasize that counter intelligence concerns will continue to worry me. these disclosures has been very damaging. i have dedicated my career to protecting information and i nt to assure the committee that we are working to better protect our information networks, increasing our ability to detect insider threats and expanding awareness of foreign

intelligence threats across the u.s. government. i believe we can and will respond to the problems of intrusions and we must do without -- our intelligence pabilities are as well. intelligence committee is better able to understand the vast array of interlocking concerns and trends. i began a thorough review of the organization. other statutes and executive orders and the activities that they direct. upon review, i decided to he

reduce or eliminate functionss not required byns n law or executive order. coronations. identified elements that should transfer out of -- into another agency that on behalf. we do not need to do everything. based on this, it is being reduced in size. discussed these plans with you and ask for your support and i look forward to presenting this in greater detail. i believe the office can provide true value.

we thank you and the distinguished members of the committee for your support and your dedication to the nation. my colleagues and i look forward to your questions and discussion. thank you very much. >> one of the 800-pound gorillas in the room is this finger- pointing happening in the town about the lead of intelligence on egypt. one of the things that struck me is that the morning, he still believed he would be president. by afteron, he was on a helicopter on his way out. i want to give a direct assessment on the intelligence leading up to and real-time intelligence. cnn and fox are currently reporting that mr. mubarak may step aside today. i wanted to give you the opportunity to talk to the

american people about real-time intelligence and where we think were. let me offer -- as i indicated, the intelligence committee has long identified the conditions that exist in the middle east this is a characteristic of many ofhese countries. when things began to at up in tunisia and the demonstrations in the streets were run by an autocrat to a been there for 23 years, it appeared to have

things under control. it is hard to foretell the impact of a fruit vendor who had fruit stolen and self immolated himself. that served as a catalyst for more widespread outbreak. as you alluded, he made a very snap decision, he was not thinking about that. he made a sudden decision to leave. that, in turn, was galvanized by 1,300 miles to the east at what has now become a full-blown uprising in egypt. i read that occasion to go back and review the thousands of reports that were done, and

extensive reporting on social media, for my part, we have done the work on reporting this very dynamic fast changing situation. as i said before, i think it is important to distinguish between mysteries and secrets. secrets are -- it is harder for us to discern and predict. it is our place to lay out the conditions, what the potential options are, and if we can make some educated - that is about all we can do. he had a great metaphor about this. earthquakes in california, you know the conditions, or the

tectonic plates are, where the fault lines are, but predicting the onset of the earth, that is more difficult. iill turn to leon and see if he has additional comments. >> my congratulations to you, . chairman. thank you for your leadership. thank you for your support. i look forward to a partnership with all of you. we cannot do this job alone. we have to rely on the congress and your leadership to try to protect americans. i thank you for that. >> the purpose of intelligence is to provide the most accurate, most timely intelligence we can to policy makers so that those decisions n be made. with regards to this region of the world, we have long provided a serious of reports that

indicate the nature of the proble in that region, and aggressive regimes, economic and political instability, stagnation, a lack of freedoms, the need for political reforms. all of that has been provided in a numerous amount of inteigence reports. almost 400 reports were provided that basically describes the concerns that we saw in this region and the potential for disruption. i think the area where we need to do better collection is when it comes to the triggers that ignite these conditions. and cause the events that we have seen take place. there are a number of triggers out there.

it was large unmet expectations of the people that are there in these countries. to are the large numbers of youth that are there. many of them are better educated and many of them are unemployed. the whole role of the internet. the ability to put a demonstration together in quick time. that is something that we need toay a lot more attention to in today's world. lastly, the role of the military. there has always spent a feeling that the military ultimately could control any demonstration in any regime. but the loyalty of the mility is now something that we have to pay attention to because it is not always one that will respond to what a dictator may or may not want. as a result of these kinds of triggers, i think is important

for us to do a lot more collection in those areas. what we have done at the cia has established a 35-member task force to focus up specifically on these elements. what i have asked for from all of my chiefs of stations is better collection on issues like popular sentiments, the strength of e opposition, what is the role of thenternet in that particular country, so that we can get better collection and better information to be able to provide to our leaders. i have used the earthquake analogy because people can tell you were the tremors are.

our biggest problem is how we get into t had a somebody. we're trying to get into the head of a camp in north korea, the supreme leader in the iran trade everybody assumed that the dictator in ple that he was going torush any type of demonstration. i do not think he was going to -- he knew he was going to get out of town. we were in a much better place to look at egypt. we provided a number of reports about what was taking place there. as you can see, i got the same information that you did. there is a strong likelihood that mubarak may step down this evening. that would be significant in terms of where the orderly

transition -- >> if you had to give a grade, how would you ge a real-time intelligence? intelligence provide to policymakers. >> i would give it at least a b +. i am prepared to dcuss why in closed session. >> if you could address all qaeda's inttions to secure radiological and other weapons that we might consider mass destruction. >> chairman, al qaeda senior leadership has been committed to obtaining advanced weapons of mass destructionor some time. we assess that they're senior leadership in pakistan remains committed to obtaining all types of weapons of mass destruction, but thanks to some outstanding

and effective offensive action, we also assess their ability to do so is greatly diminished since 9/11. with respect to the affiliate's, we believe that the arabian peninsula remain committed to obtaining weapons of mass destruction, chemical and biological weapons. we also remain focused on the availability of precursor elements within the homeland to include chemical and biological materials. >> youould break their intention as high? >> yes. >> that is the current threat that is ongoing. >> the threat remains high in pakistan and in yemen. >> the pace of modern communications technology is clearly evolving. i am concerned about the gap in the ability for the fbi and

other agencies to intercept communications with court approval. can you talk about that going dark problem that we have and discuss what risk that might mean for stopping a potential attack? >> m chairman, back in 1994, a statute was passed that required communications carriers to bin a position to provide communications to law enforcement or the intelligence community with a courorder. since that time, communications have changed dramatically. no longer is it a telephone company that carries the communications. it can be google, facebook, microsoft chad, a number of ways for communicating. our challenge is to assure that

this an appropriate court order issued by a court, with that in hand, we go to one of those carriers, they have the solution in place to be responsive. we would be working with the congress in terms of trying to -- were we not to do that, we will do is a great deal of insight into the planning and preparation of individuals that are contemplating terrorist attacks. this will be an issue that will be working to resolve. >> this is done to the court system. there is due process here. the starting premise is that we have a court order and believe that an individual is committing some kind of crime. the key medication is being

utilized to for that crime. there has been a process in place. >> at the end of this month, up surveillance -- can you talk about what threats that is? give some examples of why that is so and pour into the defense? >> these are the patriot act provisions that are up for reauthorization. there are three elements of that. the first is called the business records provision. with a court order, it allows us to get certain business records related to ongoing national security and investigation. this provision has been used over 380 times. were tt to expire without -- it would be a substantial

detriment to our capabilities. the second elements is approval for roving wiretaps. you designate an individual who was a subject and is communicating and is using a cell phone ipad, itunes, sum game consoles, we do not have to go get a separate order for each of these communications. we did a wiretap approved by a judge. that has been used more than 190 times since its inception back in 2001. to liz that would be -- to lives that would undercuour ability. >> the last provision is called the lone wolf provision. it would allow us to intify an individual and understand that that person is a national security risk.

this was an issue in the 9/11 report in terms of t inability to show thaone of the individuals there was part of a group. it preuded us -- this was passed to ensure that all we have this evidence, we bring it to a court, we can utilize our tools to -- the threats increasingly isow levels. these tools are essential for our ability to identify terrorist in general, iminals in general. >> in each of those cases, you talked about the requirements to get a court order. in your mind, is due process for any united states citizen for

any reason lost in the process in the extension of this lot? >> it is not. we do not have the unilateral capability to issue these orders. it has to go through these -- to a judge. the judge will insert -- will issue the order. >> could an fbi agent go to court and give a roving wire tap on a child pornographe >> no. they could not. i will deal lot more with you in the closed session. >> mr. ferguson, i would like to echo what the chairman said about the programming. our committee has not been fully informed of the matrs on the the program. by law, we are required to oversee that. we need to get this resolved amicably. it is important for the department of defense to know

that we feel strongly about this issue. we but like to get with the wall and resolve this matter. >> yes, sir. i discussed thisast night at seni levels. we are very willing and take a serious approach to have an exchange with you. that is our role on the inlligence commission. it is very important to us. we have the patriot act. it is an issue that is very controversial. it was defeated just this last week. the bill is coming up again for a vote probably this week or next. if the bill fails again, what will that do to your capabilies?

how will it affect our national security? >> the privacy issues are generallraised in terms o this piece of legislation. it requires a communications carrier to provide us the information. again, it is going through the judicial system. the communications will be turned over responsive to this court order sprayed in terms of the impact on our abilities, others in the intelligence community and law enforcement committee, their ability to do their jobs. the business records are necessary to pursue the investigation.

to assure that there are no gaps in picking up communications we have a roving wiretap order. if we do not have that order, we have to go back and there will be a delay going from the cell phone to another cell phone to an ipad or some other device or a specific court order has to be on each of those devices. that will be exceptionally detrimental. we will have caps and we will lose coverage. we will have to have more persons on surveillance to identify when a person gets a new handsets. on the issue of the lone wolf a provision, it would handcuffed in those situations where somebody is contemplating some sort of unilateral terrorist act, but we cannot put that

person with a particular organization. consequently, it would hold us up again and preclude us from getting the authorization for a wiretap. >> one o the key issues when you are dealing with a person's civil liberties, they are all americans and we have a constitution. the checks and balances work very well. it is important that we make sure that we follow through with those checks and balances. >> there is substantial oversight over this process as well. we have an inspector general.

we have our own procedures internally. of course, we have congress. these procedures that are up for reauthorization are well reviewed. >> i gave examples in my opening statement what about situations where we were able to deter the attacks were planned by those individuals. if you did not have the resources of the issues that we're voting on th the patriot act, do you feel like you could have been successful? >> it is hard to identify and isolate a particular piece of o going investigation. i am comfortable in saying that to the successes that we have had would have been much more difficult to come by absent the tools that we have been operating with in the current legislation. >> thank you. my question relates to the secreta's statement yesterday that are fraught level is now

the highest that it has been since 9/11. we will go a little bit dper into this issue. i am concerned that the. is due to our homegrown terrorism. it represents a very difficult problem for our intelligence communities. we have to keep our country safe. that is our number one priority. but we also have to pay attention when we're talk about american citizen's constitutional rights. i leave that to directer mueller. really maybe later too, can you talk about the threat from homegrown terrorism, what we're doing about it? and do you agree with secretary napolitano that our country's threat has been thhighest? >> i might suggest since mike was present for that exchange that he speak first and then

perhaps director mueller. >> congressman, the full context of these remarks, i think, i completely agree with the secretary, which is we face actually -- jim is so -- but the full range of threats is the most diverse and most complex that we have faced. it is not that we are looking at one specific threat now which brings our threat level a very elevated level. it is that we face a ideologically diverse set of threats which is the greest diversity and complexity that we have faced since 911. with respect to your point of homegrown extremists, we have seen last year and the year before a heightened state of radicalization and mobilization against homegrown extremists. we've seen signs of the

beginning of networking of homegrown extremists. the good tng about this is they still lack the sophistication of the threat we've seen from pastan and yemen but as i noted yesterday,'hood proves quite clearly that you don't need to be sophisticated to be deadly as terrorist. >> do we need to ramp up our resources because of this threat because of this statement that has been a serious threat level since 911? you run the fusion center. director, you collaborate all this. director mueller you can speak for law enforcement. >> i will echo director mueller's point about the patriot act. thats a resource that we need. and as the threat is increased on the homeland and become more diverse, those tools have become more not less relevant since 911. with respect to resource, anti

t.c. launched more attks and we worked with the f.b.i. to get efficiencies but we continue to look at increasing our watch listing ranks to try to tease out the very minute piece of informaon that are often required to identify and disrupt homegrown attacks. >> let me just clarify one thing before i answer your question, sir, and this is in response to your question of congressman rogers. if the legislation was not passed would you not get robic title path. if it was a child pornographer we could. >> thank you for clarifying. that's why i asked the question. >> if you're a drug dealer, you're fine. if you're a terrorist with a

radiological bomb we can't get it. cannot, that's the point. >> thank you. >> going back to the question of the -- the threats now. this is from our perspective and this is with what the secretary said yesterday, this is a very bad time. it's gone up and down over the years since september 11. but we're in a period which reflects changes from our perspectives. are the threats coming out of the fata out of yemen or right at the top? >> i think mike would agree with that. and then we get down to the homegrown extremists which have grown because of ease and acktess to the internet, use it to pro le ties and it has grown by leaps and bounds. and that provides a substantial challenge to us. you ask what we do to identify these pockets of

radicalization. task forces are working with law enforcement, working with our capabilities in terms of identifying those who are identifying with radicalization whether it be with the internet or the community which we are jointly addressing. i mentioned two other areas that are a threat within the united states. one as it relates to individuals going to somalia to fight. we are closely monitoring that situation as well as threats from al-qaeda in iraq individuals that have hadome association with al-qaeda in iraq. and all of these are task forces that we operate in along with our work with the fusion centers along with the homeland security as well as nctc to

identify those radicals. >> director of homeland security and congressman panetta. >> i'll just echo what the secretary said yesterday about the four pillars of the homeland security security enterprise, but the areas that she mentioned yesterday that are fundamental into addressing this homegrown extremist issue are f.b.i.-led. the fusion centers which are owned by the state and the major urban areas in the country to do information sharing and analysis and to support the jtps with information but also the naon suspicious activity rerting initiative that we work very closely with the department of justice and the f.b.i. and the secretary if you

see something say something campaign. those last two are critical to identifying pieces of information that may be useful in another context or triffle or criminal trives or criminal activity. in light of the difficulty of deterring and disrupting these small less sophisticated attacks, wbelieve the role of the public and local law enforcement is going to be critical in identify that. >> we're going to have to wrap up further questions. but at a later date we need to focus on the issue of cyber security. i believe these are one of the bigger attacks of the country. and we need to educate the public on how serious this issue is. >> well, it's a good lead-in. director clapper you had

several bullets in your written statement about cyber security. and you said that the impact is difficult to overstate. but as you know there is really a difference of opinion about whether we're talking primarily of annoyances, you know, with computers that run slower, whether we're talking about crime, theft of property and certainly a lot of money that's stolen or whether we are talking about a matter of national security. and so i wld appreciated if you and the directors could talk to us about the degree to which cyber threats do pose a threat to our nation's security because that is relevant to how much money and what kinds of authorities we have to look at to deal with the problem. but first, we need to understand whether we're talking primarily about crime or whether we're talking about national security. >> well, the effect can be the

same whether it's the source of an attack or intrusion comes from a criminal be it domestic or unorganized international ring -- national ring. from a nation security standpoint the threat by certain nation states is quite profound. if in fact the capabilities that we ascribe to them are actually exercised. so i think what we see in terms of these penetrations some of which i alluded to by way of example and what the potential is there i think emphasizes the importance of this whole issue of cyber protection. i think we're very interested in the -- the administration is in engaging with the congress on the multiple legislative proposals that have been put forth.

but it is potentially a huge threato our security. i think the department of defense's stand-up of cyber command is, you know, department's clear recogtion of this and the importance of having a cyber arm in a war-fighting capacity and similarly the department at large, the departmt of homeland security sees this from a domestic perspective. in the interactions that i participated in with key industry officials, i think there is a growing awareness of the tential vulnerability to this country because of our huge dependence on cyber for a whole range things. >> without a question of doubt, it's very large national security issue in a variety of ways. if you look back historically and see what russia had done in

estonia or in georgia before offensively in exercising its military might in the cyber arena as an example, you have in the counter intelligence not just intelligence officers but you have probes and capabilities of this intruding into networks and ex-fill traiting the information that would be beneficial to you that previously you would have to recruit somebody inside to obtain which makes it much easier for tse trying to steal our secrets -- to steal our secrets. you the possibility of aault on infrastructure and bringing down pieces of the infrastructure if they're not adequately protected. and then there is been a crime in banks and robbing banks of millions of dollars over night by intruding and upping the limits on y a.t.m.'s.

the problem from our perspective is we think of it in particular categories, crime versus government involvement. you don't know if it's a group of individuals at the behest of an actor or a high school kid across the street. for us it's coming together as entity and bringing our skill sets together before we denominate it as a crime or intelligence probe and working together to identify to the tribute of the intrusions and decide what terms to take whether treating it criminally or other national security challenge. >> i don't think there's any question. but this is a real national security threat that we have to pay attention too. i know there are a lot of aspects to it. the internet, the cyber arena

is -- it's this vastly growing area of information that can be used and abused in a number of ways. when it comes to national security, i think this represents the battleground for the future. i've often said that the potential for the next pearl harbor could be a cyber attack. if you a cyber attack that brings down our grid system, financial system, brings down our government system, you could paralyze this country. and i think that's a real potential. that's the thing we have to pay attention to. other countries are designing a specific capacity whether it's iran or china. we're the subject of hundreds of attacks to try to get information. we've got to department defenses against that but we've got to put our assets in places where we can provide sufficient warning that these attacks are are coming.

>> mr. thompson from california. thank you, mr. chairman, thank you for the work that you and all the great men and women who work for you provide regarding safety and security. i have a couple of things that i'd like to touch on. first there's been a lot of discussion about the extent of certain provisions of the patriot act. i think it's impornt to know that there is still some concern about the vivel liberty side of these provisions. it's a bipartisan concern and it's a concern reflected across the country. so director mueller i hope you're willing to work on improving the patriot about so we can be as safe as we possibly can be without crificing the civil liberties of the american people and i know there's a bill in the senate and they're working on that. -- to achieve both of those

goals. general clapr, i've got an issue in the ranking member alluded to it and that's what's happening in mexico regarding the drug trafficking organizatis there. somebody said that this could easily spill over and be an even larger problem. i'll submit as it aeady is. they're growing dope in the lands throughout the country. it's very prevalent in my area. and the's been a good effort on behalf of local law enforcement to really go after this. but there seems to be somewhat of a disconnect at the national level. i know that i mentioned the relationship between the mexican drug trafficking organizations and what was going on and was directed by

someone who said we have no information that that is the case. but if you talk to state, local even federal folks who are on the groundworking these issues, they'll tell you that it's very much the case. in humble county just last week, they made a big bust on heroin with direct ties to direct trafficking organizations in mexico. so as we're debating how we're going to handle this, it's quickly spinninout of control to be an even greater problem. i certainly hope we could marshall all of our efforts to come together to fair it out and stop this horrific problem because it's already an american problem and it has all kinds of connections to terrorist opportunities that we

cannot afford to allow to continue. and i'll just ask one more question, and i'll take my answers off the air and general clapper that is, as we continue to meet tough budgetary problems here at the federal level at all levels of government, the need to provide the best possible intelligence isn't going away. we're asked to do a lot more to ensure the safety of america and americans and do that with an either shrinking budget or a flat line budget. and the terrorist challenge that we face aren't going to be shrinking, and they're not going to be flat lining. they're going to be growing. so can you give us an idea how you're going to be able to

handle that? >> let me make a briefomment about your well-placed concerns about mex co. was going to -- mexico. and i was going to ask about homeland secury security as well. this is a problem. we've raised this issue in terms of its priority and the national party framework which is the guiding direction for priorization of issues to category one which is the highest. we are working with the appropriate mexican officials in support of president calderon's campaign internally. but there's no question this has huge concerns for us here in the united states because of the obvious potential, not only potential but actual spill-over in the border states. with that i would ask karin to

speak. >> these guys have actually seized our public land. and they're creating huge problems, public safety. people can't use our public land. they're contaminating waters, tributaries. it's the spill-over effecthat just goes on and own and on. >> karen? we have an unprecedented effort right now along the boarder in materials of resources, technology to do our best to security the border. and i think we're doing a better job than has been done before. we are very concerned about the possibility for the spill-over for the kinds of cartel violence that we see in mexico where they're actually fighting over specific roots into the u.s. we have not seen that type of system metric violence spill-over, but i'm not going to tell -- systemic violence spill-over but i'm not going to

tell you it doesn't exist. so we've been working with d.e.a. to attempt to focus on the flows of illegal flow of cash and guns that go way beyond just the borr. but as far as the border is concerned, we're seeing all of the staff going in the right direction. we've got seizures of drugs and money and guns going up. and captures of illegal immigrants going down. we're going to continue to work that and we're very concerned about making sure that we plug any potential ga or holes that could provide an avenue for terrorists across the border. it's a continuous focus but clearly there is drug-related violence and the entire law enforcement community is working that. >> thank you. >> just to answer briefly your commentary about our budget challenges. i have been through this before. i was -- served as the director of the intelligence agencies in

the early 190's. when we were directed to reap the piece as it was called then by virtue of the fall of the soviet wall, which we did. we took substantial cuts which came to a screeching halt with 911. and then we rampedp again. so now the pendulum will swing back. all will understand that we're going to be in for some belt-tightening and given, you know, the funding that we have been given over the last 10 years since 911, that's probably appropriate. this is a case where we must work as partners. we in the community and you in the congress to help guide this , i personally hope to profit from mistakes that i made i think when we did this in the early 1990's.

we have one outside group that's very familiar with it. they sent me some remmendations on areas we need to consider for examination in the personnel structure and acquisition. i have not actually looked at those recommendations yet. of course, this will be a subject among the ice community and leadership. this is an area we need to work with you. >> tnk you all for your service. and director mueller thank you very much for what the f.b.i. and the great job you did in north carolina, not just in the case but with the conclusions of daniel patrick boyd who pled guilty to being a homegrown terrorist yesterday. i hope there's more of that. i know how hard it is. director clapper, i wanted to make a statement of concern and then i've got a couple of

questions to follow and i wanted to answer them all, if you would please, whoever would wish to. it's concerning the muslim brotherhood. i'm concerned that they're using egypt it as a graph. and we don'trasp that threat. the brotherhood isn't a danger just because they're terrorist because they push an extremist ideology that causes others to commit acts of terrorist. according to the department of justice and the f.b.i. the brotherhood is actually inside america. i hold this up from the holy land foundation finance support trial. evidence was introduced by federal prosecutors titled "the explanatory morandum." the document says the brotherhood is engaged in and a quote a civilization jihadist.

their work in amera is a grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the western civilization from within and the last page lists the name of 29 organizations in the u.s. whom the author who was a member of the muslim brotherhood claims are involved in this so-called civilization jihadist process. so the danger of the muslim brotherhood is not just encouraging terrorism through their ideology but also trying to take over government. so everyone has to succumb and live under their ideology. the 911 commsion record says we must learn about their ideology. do you considering -- consider the muslim brotherhood dangerous? and can you talk about the memorandum and do you see the

muslim brotherhood dangerous based on that? shou we consider them as front groups of the muslim brotherhood here in america? and to your knowledge, do our intelligence, agencies act in any official capacity with those organizations that are listed in the memorandum? >> let me speak to the muslim brotherhood as an international movement. and then i'll ask director mueller to speak specifically to it here domestically. the reason i do that, of course, is because the muslim brotherhood is prominent in what's going on in egypt and the mideast. it's an umbrella term for a variety of movements. in the case of egypt, a very heterogeneous group largely secular which has issued violence and has decried

al-qaeda as a perversion of islam. they have pursued social ends, betterment of the political order in egypt, etc. >> it's not the violent side. i'm interested in the nonviolent side, which is what i was talking about. >> in other countries there are franchises of the muslim brotherhood. but there is no overarching agenda particularly in pursuit of violence, at least international. with that since there are entities that are associated with the muslim brotherhood i'll asked director mueller to speak to that. >> obviously, elements of the muslim brotherhood have supported terrorism, right. >> to the extent that i can provide more information, i'd be happy to produce those in closed session. but it would be difficult to do it in open session. >> i appreciate that very much.

i also wanted to mention relative to what's going on with al-qaeda and i know that some of you brought that up before. but this in particular when you talk about the internet and the web inspire which is the fourth edition and what they're doing and how they're encouraging people in america, young people in america in a way that we've never seen befor we've got to pay more attention to that. i know you're very much aware of it. samir khan who is considered to be the editor of this started in the basemt of his parent's home in charlotte, north carolina. and we go from there. my frustration was that he was allowed to operate here even though we tried to shut him down and of course he moved to yemen and look what he's doing. the propaganda side of what they're doing is really frustrating in the sense that they -- they are moving in a way we've never seen them move

before. the jihadists websites, one of you mentioned it, they're doing gaming. they're doing ways to pull our people in in our modern technology things that they can innocently get involved in and theyon't really realize what they're getting involved in and what the basis behind it is. i hope we're keeping track of all these websites that are springing up and how this is all fitting into the picture of what you're facing with the threats of homegrown terrorism rising now. because i think this is a tremendous feeder in a way we haven't seen before. >> congresswoman as 've discussed many times before looking in the ways that individuals are being radicalized is our number one priority because they do have an access to our facilities, they understand our people, they understand our culture and it could be used against us. it's not just watching in

conjunction with the f.b.i., it's doing in a way of respecting civil liberties who have acceptable first amendment spch. but it is also seeking with policy agencies and informing them so they can empower the communities to go out and engage their youth as well. so we can empower main stream -- mainstream the moderate muslims and how their kids could be victimized through is propaganda. >> i hope with can work on this program because that's very important and a great interest of mine. thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. >> i know her plans for putting something bigger on this subject. and i'm sure you'll cooperate with that. >> i would like to get more information on the muslim brotherhood and their impact when we get into closed

session. let me just ask a quick question for all of you. when president calderon from mexico was here and spoke to a joint session of congress, he said when the ban on automatic weapon expired that there was a flow from the ited states to mexico of automatic weapons. i'm just asking if anyone on this panel would state you anybody? >> would y like to say anything about that? >> i will have to take that for the record. >> i just wondered if anyone was prepared. regarding egypt, there are reports that you think it is unlikely president mubarak will step down tonight. then there are other reports that he is saying that he is in

power and there are no decisions about the future. let's assume there is a change. what impact will the change in egypt have on the region, particularly israel? >> we follow that very closely. the overall regional impact of what is happening in egypt is something that we obviously have to pay attention to. the egregious i talked about that were present in tunisia and egypt are president -- are present in other countries throughout that region. we have to pay attentiono help these factors come into play. let me make very clear that i received reports that possibly mubarak might do that. we are continuing to monitor the situation. we have not gotten specific word that he will do that.

>> does that mean suleyman with debt that? >> i do not know the particulars of how this would work. i would assume he would turn over more of his powers to omar suleiman to be able to rect the country and direct the reforms that hopefully will take place. if egypt and develop a timeline for political reform that leads to free and open elections -- if they can move in that kind of orderly process, it could have a positive effect with regards to that area. if, on the other hand, this turns in another direction, that

could affect not only the security of israel, but that of other nations. >> have you done any particular analysis of what the changes would need to israel? >> yes, we have. we will be happy to share with you in another forum. >> how would you assess the stability of the following governments -- saudi arabia, syria, and jordan? >> again, in open session, i am a little concerned about sharing specifics about any of these countries. i think it suffices to say that there are a number of countries in the arab world that reflects some of the same concerns. the concern about the lack of freedoms, the lack of political reform, the lack of truly free and open elections, the economic

stagnation, the impact this is having on unemployment, particarly for the young. i think all of those factors are at play in a number of nations across that region. all of which means we have to pay a great deal of attention. i think the traders, the factors that kicked off what hpened in egypt could impact other areas. >> thank you. i wonder if we could squeeze in another one. the lebanese parliament has selected a hizbollah-backed candidate. how do you evaluate the lebanese prime ministernd can he make decisions independent of hezbollah? >> he has publicly stated that he intends to be independent, but given the realities of political life in lebanon, that remains to be seen. that is obviously somhing we are watching carefully.

perhaps we can discuss this more in closed session. >> i yield back. thank you. >> thank you met, mr. chairman. -- thank you, mr. chairman. you talk abo radicalization. could you elaborate a little bit? is it really self- radicalization or is it just one person being radicalized by others? >> let me ask the director to speak to that. >> congressmen, what has changed more recently is that where as several years back there tended to be some personal contact between individuals to have not become radicalized, is with the increasing media -- facebook, youtube, -- we have

se individuals being inspired on their own to a grter extent. i think your point is a good one. it is really not self- radicalization. theris still a linkage to the ideology, which is being pushed to the internet and modern communication. >> anybody else? >> i think it is really important -- we have been talking around it -- but to put this in overall context. the reality is that our biggest concern about al qaeda is that they could conduct 9/11 type attacks in this country. i think as a result of the work that has been done by going directly at them, i think we have seriously undermined their ability to be able to conduct those kinds of attacks. having said that, we are now resorting -- they are now resorting at other ways to come at this country. try to inspire sleeper's to go

after lone wolves, inspire gazines to urge people to do what ever they can to do something someplace, somehow, somey. that is the nature of the kind of threats we are now dealing with the concern all of us in this country. it is in that arena where we had the toughest job because while these are less sophisticated, they are tougher to find. >> i would add maybe a little different perspective on this. there are people we single out as self-radicalize years. i think oftentimes they have issues of frustrati and then assume the mantle of some radical philosophy to justify or

reinforced taking action against these frustrations which may have to do with their upbringing, their environment, lack of employment, economic frustrations, whatever they are. they gravitate to a radical ideologies. this is fed by the use of the media. i think that reinforces it. i am not so convinced that is the actual instigation of it. i think in the end, it is probably an individual -- an individual case by case basis. >> it was said at some other time that the united states would have to reassess either its relationship or dealings with the muslim brotherhood. what is this administration's relationship with the brotherhood? >> sir, i think -- i do not

know. >> no relationship with the brotherhood. to my knowledge. >> there is no relationship with the muslim brotherhood. there have been out reaches to thmuslim community in general, but we are not aware of any direct outreach to these particular organizations. >> why has it not syr fallen into disarray as we have seen in other areas? >> i think assad believes that despite some of the economic difficulties and challenges in syria that he is connected with the people and that as a consequence he does not have

this concern. i do not know that that is a wise judgment, but it appears to be the judgment he has made. it will be interesting in all these countries to see the contagion effect, particularly with the activism of social media. >> i tnk the reality is that he exercises tremendous control over what happens in syria. the result of that is that there is not the ability to be able to proceed to do the kinds of things we saw happen in other countries. having said that, i think there are some of the same ingredients that occurred in some of the other counies. i think the potential for that is there as well.

mr. schiff of california. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to clarify something before i ask a question. earlier, there was a cment made -- i support the provision extensions -- that we could get a wiretap on a child pornographer but we could not get a wiretap on a lone wolf. this is not true. if you have evidence of a crime, you can get a wiretap under title 18. if you have evidence of the radiological weapons attack, it can also get a wiretap under title 18. it is comparing apples and oranges. if you have the se evidence of either crime, you can get a wiretap. i think that was a little misleading. i do not think it is accurate to say you cannot get a wiretap on a radiological bomb case. my question is on something different. >> can i respond to that? >> if yes.

>> i did n attempt to mislead. but all we were talking about the roping wiretap statute. i thought we werealking wiretape rulioving statute. if it was not reached out, we'll still have that capability under title 18. >> regardless, you can get a wiretap under title 18 if y have the evidence. it may be less effective if they are going from phone 2 phone. that would be true in a child pornography case, too. i think it is a little misleading to people that are not first in this to suggest you cannot get a wiretap in a radiological bomb case. >> you may want to share the divorce between a intelligence

based investigation and a criminal based investigation. >> i just wanted to make that point. >> bite -- in no way are we trying to mislead. you can get on the criminal side of the house a number of the capalities we have on the security side of the house. if you do not get on the national security side of the house, you may be able to get on the criminal side of the house with a much enhanced burden of proof, but you could still get it on the criminal side of the house. it is misleading to make that differentiation. the standard is different on the national security side of the house that it is on the other side of the house. again, i have no question. i do not think anyone was trying to mislead. i think for the audiences here

today, to suggest in broad terms you can get a wiretap on child pornographers but not against a radiological bomber, that is not correct. what i want to ask about is the report that we received those two sentences to egypt, which i thought was striking given the prominence of egypt, not only in terms what is dominating the news, but also in terms of the broader issues we are confronting. i think that two developments -- the most discouraging i have seen in the last few years and the most encraging. all the discouraging side, you have a governor who was assassinated for speaking out against the blasphemy law. the person who killed him as

part of a security detail is being celebrated in pakistan with tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people demonstrating in support of the assassin. that is the most discouraging thing i effort in terms of the battle of ideas in a long te. all the other hand, the most encouraging thing i guess seen in a long time is happening i it. i know there is a lot of risk, but the potential, i think, is enormous in terms of liberating the arab world from the shackles of auoritarian regimes. they have subjugated the role of women and resulted in the lack of opportunities and provided fertile ground for terrorism. i wonder, in light of these two very significant things, whether we are missing the force of the

treaties? this may get mr. panetta to the commission you're talking about. sometimes things that are out in the open we pay a lot -- we pay lessttention to. i think what is happening in egypt has enormous ramifications in terms of the war on terror. i would be interested to get any of your thoughts on that situation. egypt has broader implications. held shape are other priorities? >> i will ask leon to add to that. there is a stark contrast between pakistan and egypt. of course, pakistan is a sovereign nation which has certain interest at heart. sometimes our interest, belize, and values converge and sometimes they do not.

with respect to what is going on in egypt, this is an yvette. there are potentially great opportunities to come up with a counter-narrative to al qaeda and its franchisees and what it is espousing. >> i do not think there is any question that this provides a tremendous opportunity to try to move egypt in the right direction. i think the administration and the world for that matter hopes that will be the case. the opportunity is there. the opportunity for the leadershipo be able to reach out to the opposition, to be able to develop the

constitutional changes and political reforms that are necessary, and the opportunity to truly develop free and fair elections so that the people of egypt can exercise the same freedoms that we do. that is a tremendous opportunity. and it is one that i think we are taking all the steps possible to try to see what we can do try to move it in that kind of orderly transition. the problem, as you know, is that when you had these events take place, it becomes very uncertain and oftentimes very unpredictable to try to figure out whether or not those in a leadership role will make the right decisions at the right moments and whether those who are in the opposition in the demonstrations will be able to exercise the kind of bitter ship necessary in order to ensure

this goes in the right -- the kind of leadership necessary in order to ensure this goes in the right direction. it is done right, it will help us a great deal in trying to promote stability in that part of the world. if it happens all wrong, it could create some serious problems for us and the rest of the world. >> mr. king of new york. >> thank you, mr. chairman. director panetta, he said there was no involvement with the muslim brotherhood in this country? >> my understanding of the question was does the administration in the united states have a relationship with the muslim brotherhood, to which i believe the answer is no. >> that also applies to the fbi obviously. >> yes. as i believe you are aware, we do not have a relationship with them.

we continue to have issues with them. we do not have a formal relationship with them at this time. >> if you have an informal relationship with them? >> no, but there are occasions when individuals who may be loosely affiliated with care that we have relationships with. we have no formal relationship, but there are a number of fluid organizations, depending on where you are in the country. on some occasions we may be with persons to have ongoing issues with care. >> are you concerned at what is happening in egypt could spread throughout the region? does that include morocco? >> i think there are a number of countries in that region that could be impacted in the same way. >> also, as far as india and

pakistan, are there any changes on the kashmir issue? >> there have been efforts to try to reach out between pakistan and india, but as far as i know, they have not gotten anywhere. >> recently -- yesterday or today -- they agreed to resume strategic dialogue. if that happens, that would be a movement in the right direction. >> i know nothing can be anticipated, but if the situation in kashmir does improved somewhat will we get more cooperation? >> i havto say this -- the have provideds cooperation and have given us -- have worked with us in the efforts to try and go after al qaeda.

i appreciate that effort. at the same time, obviously, we worry about the relationship with militant groups and their relationship in terms of the effort with regard to india. if the kashmir area could be resolved, that would help a great deal over all in terms of pakistani securi. >> i yield back. >> thank you, mr. king. >> i want to thank the panel for their testimony here today. i want to thank you all for the work you are doing to keep the nation safe. i am very pleased that we have had a bust discussion this morning about cyber security and vulnerability that we face. as some of you know, i think we

have a great deal of work yet to do. i will start with the director and perhaps director miller could comment as well. how do y assess the progress we have made in dealing with the cyber-threat overall? we have set up a cyber-command and have set up defenses with respect to networks. we are working towards protecting the dot-gov network. much of it is in private hands. i want to know if there were a major cyber-attack on the nation, do we know who is in charge and do we have

sufficnt of parties to actually stop an attack? >> i think we have been working very hd to try to make sure that as a community we are putting together all our capabilities and authority to be able to respond effectively to cyber-intrusion. it does not always clear from whence they come or how they can be attributed. we recently signed an m.o.u. to create a joint unit said that we have an enclave that will allow us to deploy our abilities appropriately and will approve -- will improve our ability to share technology and formation. of course, we will use that in our department's role of sharing that information when appropriate and possible with the private sector and,

particularly, the critical infrastructure sector that we work with on a daily basis. >> could we stop major cyber- attacks on the nation toda do we know who is in charge? >> i would say that the administration is working right now on a copper adzes cyber- security strategy. that will allous to do that. >> the answer is no. >> i think we are in a much better position than we were in. there is much room for progress and improvement in this area. we are working on that with the white house. >> has einstein-story been deployed? >> i do not believe it has been deployed, but i will get back to you on that for the record. >> i would say that what has been in place for a couple of years is a joint task force.

it is a hub of identifying and achieving a tax big, large, or small. you have all the relative agencies there. if it turns alo be an attack -- if it turns out to be an attack by a high school student down the street, we will not take that to be a crime. depending on where the attack originates, you'll have people at the table capable to do that. if it originates in the united states, we would have jurisdiction. if it comes to putting a wall between the attackers and a particular entity within the ited states, the department of homeland security would have a role. we have a focal point that immediately identifies the

attack and identifies the focus of that a tag annualizes all the capabilities we have to address this. >> regardless of if it is the intelligence side or the law enforcement side. >> our -- what is our level of progress in being able to protect against an insider threat as it relates to cyber? >> that issue has come to the floor and been reaffirmed by the wikileaks disclosures. within the intelligence community, at least, we had a strategy and have embard on an improvement program to attend to the insider threat whether it is wikileaks or any sort of insider threat.

better identification of people who are on networks, patrolling media, and most importantly -- this applies for several purposes -- auditing and monitoring. our progress is uneven at this point. we have embarked on a campaign to police that up, particularly within the intelligence enterprise. the white house as a study group on how to do this across the government. i think your characterization is right. we have made progress, but there is a lot more that needs to be done. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i yield back. >> the gentleman from new jersey. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. to our panel, at thank you for being here today.

to the men and women who served under you in the intelligence committee, our heartfelt thanks for their service to our country. it is difficult and trying situations. the nation os you a great debt of gratitude. this will be for anyone who might want to attend comment. a few years ago, the issue of piracy seems to resurface with somalia. it appeared at the time that there was somewhat of a disorganized than that was interested in shaking down someone for money. we all know the circumstances that developed after that. recently there are some who are suggesng that terrorist networks that have attempted to become involved with piracy issues from two vantage points.

number one, to be able to find money for their terrorist activities. number two, if they cannot shape tell somebody for money, they can create real terror in an incident that they might perpetrate. can you comment on that at all? >> you have highlighted a serious problem. there has been no government there since 1991. that is with the pirates are most prevalent. there is some connection in somalia with relation to piracy. they do obtain revenue from some of these pirate activities. most of it appears to be

individual criminal gangs operating to extract money for holding hostage these ships. that is sething we are watching. this is a high interest item for the community. would you like to add anything? >> we are worried about piracy in the area. it shows the problematic potential linkage between our share by the -- al-shabab and somalia. we have had a series of americans go to somalia to join it. >> i am wondering if you can confirm or deny efforts to

train a security force to fight piracy? >> it might be best to discuss that in closed session. >> maybe you can test on this. more broadly comedy have any ggestions for what additionallye might be able to do to address this issue of piracy? >> 1 and the challenges with pirate -- one of the challenges with pirate is if yocatch them, what do you do with them? convicting pirates turns to be rather problematic. it is not something that we in the west can do. it is a problem. >> thank you. >> mr. chandler?

>> thank you. this is my first opportunity to visit with people in the community as a brand-new member of this community. i want to echo summit these comments -- some of these comments about the war the men and women do for our country. i think you are a true american patriot. you pick your lives on the line. -- you put your lives on the line. thank you very much for all that you do. i reviewed your task as one of the most daunting tasks in any area of the government or anybody that i can think of anywhere. when you look at all the hot spots, you think about what you

are requiredo do. it is remarkable how you get your arms arnd in. it is amazing to me. anything we can do to help you keep our country safe, i know everybody here wants to do. it is extremely important. i wish you the best of luck. in terms of asking you questions -- where to start? there are so many things that we need to know about. you are now dealing with the middle east. i am particularly interested in and then in -- in a van -- events in yem. i'm curious the sat is of al qaeda -- in the status of al qaeda. when a failed state in somalia

and potentially one in yemen. we are concerned they could become a failed state. i hope not. the region is extremely volatile. i am wondering what we are doing in terms of resources. do we have sufficient resources to understand what we are doing in the horn of africand yemen? what is the situation there? the second situation is one that makes me nervous. pakistan is extremely crucial to what happens in the rest of the world, what happened in afghanistan. to it is one of the most dangerous places on the planet. you have a state that has enormous volatility and nuclear weapons. what can you tell us about the

security of the nuclear weapons under the control of the state of pakistan? are we in decent shape there? what needs to be done to make sure the weapons are sick. ? >> thank you very much -- weapons are secured? >> thank you very much. we appreciate that. a couple of comments about the country's you bring up. it might be better if you want to get into more detail in closed session. probably the president of yemen is facing some profound challenges. he has some secessionists in his own movement -- country. he has been in place for a long

time. they have had demonstrations in the street. he has been an ally of ours, articulately militant and extremists that jeopardize him. in terms of your question about resources allocated, that will be better discussed in closed session. you are right about pakistan. there are a lot of challenges as will. our assessment is that the nuclear weapons and pakistan are secure. that is probably all we should say about that in public. >> i am very happy to talk about it in closed session. with yemen, two principal concerns. they are continuing to plan and tried to execute from yemen and vince similar to what we sell on december 25 of last year.

their effort to speak to english speakers in the west and inspire them to act in our home countries without going to yemen in getting training. in somalia, there are problems as well. al-shabaab is closely aligned with al qaeda on the leadership level rather than al-shabaab and the troops. al-shabaab is launching transnational attacks. they killed 74 including an american during the african world cup. we have a history of several of americans traveling to somalia to fight al-shabaab. they remain focused on the potential for them to ease -- be used as operatives in the united states. >> thank you. i appreciate it. >> i am sure you arell

familiar with the conclusions of the risk report. they expressed a concern of the likelihood of a buyer terror attack that is high. he did a biological terror attack is high -- the likelihood of a biological terror attack is high. how do you assess that for a globally? do you believe a biological terrorist event remains at or at the top of a threat to nations around the world? >> for there is a clear commitment on the part of al qaeda with a focus on obtaining chemical or biological weapons. the likelihood of obtaining a biological weapon is morelikely than producing a yield producing

nuclear device. the likelihood of using a real logical device that does not have the yield might be equally high. the possibility at anthrax has been focused on by the groups in the past. it will continue to be focused on. i think the loan will attacks still stands out as the far more likely event. >> that the threat concerns as a great deal, because oftentimes when it comes to biological and chemical threat we tend to come in the bht of nuclear -- we tend to, and the light of nuclear attacks, not to focus on

that element. from an intelligence point of view, we see that al qaeda continues to look at that possibility. that is something we are focused on to insure that they do not develop that capability. in dealing with al qaeda, the likelihood is that they will use anything they can to create terror. that means to have to focus on all of the spot. >> thank you. i will yield back. >> thank you. >> thank you. i want to thank each and everyone if you for your service. i know some of you have been serving this country and protecting us on your adult life. i want to thank all for that. my question will still with the debt that we have. and then mullien

secretary of state had made the comment thaour national debt could one of our national security issues. i would like to ask you to address that. do you think that is a possibility that would -- that could create some problems with that owned country'ies it? ? >> preeti owner this debt? -- own this debt? >> it does propose a threat to our national security.

the allusion that there is a relationship with china. we recognize that we are going to have to play our part to help reduce that debt. i agree that it does pose a huge problem for us. we have to deal with it, in my view. >> i would speak to that more as a former director of the office of management and budget. that threat of? -- debt and the consequences of

that internationally and economically and in terms of the resources we need for the feature, there is no question that it represents a threat that we should pay attention to. obviously, from an intelligence point of view, our main focus is on al qaeda and the threat they focus to attacking our country. we should pay attention to the threats in this country as well. >> as a foreign policy iue, it is a constant area of concern when we are dealing -- >> can you move your microphone? >> it is a topic of discussion in relation to our foreign relations. it is connecd to our ability to deal with other countries.

it is a top concern. secretary clinton has said that it is something that we have to deal with when we are sitting down with the chinese and other countries. >> thank you. i will yield back my time. >> thank you. . i appreciate the integrity that the brain and your commitment to keeping the american people safe. we are waiting to hear what president mubarak will say to the egyptian people. people in the united states are paying attention awell. we are nervous about the white a change to egypt -- about what a change to egypt will mean to the region. some will have sympathy to the

american people and peace in the region and to a commitment to a peaceful relationship with egypt. i am wondering if you can comment on hamas and hezbollah and how you see the impact of the current instability in the yemen, tunisia, jordan, and egypt and the changes we have seen. how do you see that impact in the light that has to look at hezbollah, secretary kate has said -- gates has said has belie is perhaps theest armed of the isanization's -- hezbollah perhaps the best arms of the organization's? ?

are we sending from them that they see an opportunity to perhaps enhance hostility with israel at this particular time? if you could also comment regarding the urbanization as well. asian -- is weaponization as well. >> we are watching with great interest to see how it unfolds and whether or not they do have an opportunity to exploit or further their interest or not. al qaeda has had a standoff relationship -- standoff posture toth respect to outreach an egypt. that is to be determined.

they are observing this as we e. they are looking for opportunities to further their interest. you highlighted hezbollah rightfully so. they are very well armed. they also an attempt -- and tend to raise social needs of their people. -- attend to the social need of their people. they are arming themselves. they have extensive vessels. that poses a threat to israel. >> there is no question that the people at this table is confronting terrorism and all its forms. we have talkin do we have talked about al qaeda and all of the dierent verse -- we had talked

about al qaeda end of the different versions. there are other terrorist groups that threaten this country. you have identified those tha we are worried about. hezbollah is a terrorist group that clearly has ties to iraq as as hamas and the others. our concern is that ron -- iran could impact the stability of that region. hezbollah is well armed. it has exercised its eerie -- experience on what is happened in the 11 non -- in lebanon. this is a way we have not seen as much in the past. we think they are exercising greater influence today.

they do have weapons that can impact in other areas in that region. it did a group that we pay a lot of attention to. -- it is a group that we pay a lot of attention to. you have identified the group's that -- groups that the intelligence community has to pay atttion to. >> the only thing i would add is that i think hamas is the one that is most immediately affected anby a ditch imprisons. -- by egyptian prisons. we can talk more about that in closed sessions. >> this may not be wise for this

session, but i would appreciate getting more information on your assessment as to the number of rocket and capabilities of hezbollah as well as the ground troops assessment. thank you. i yield back. >> thank you. i offer my sincere thanks. thank you predicting -- i think you -- thank you. you reference the potential threat caused by the health infrastructure vacuum in certain countries and extremist groups. how would you characterize the

severity of this thread? what recommendations would to have to combat this threat? >> the thrt posed by the provision -- quite the threat of the extreme and -- quite the threat of the extremist groups and the help vacuum. ealth that team. >> hezbollah and tends to this. it solicits a positive response. that is one of the things that the muslim brotherhood does in egypt. that is not under the guise of an extremist agenda. they can pursue other social services on behalf of the citizens.

it is not have a view with promoting violence. this is something we try to watch. this illicits something we have to monitor. >> the onlorganization i would add -- they have an enormous presence in pakistan providing medical service and education. they have gained support from the government of pakistan. it is also a terrorist group responsible for killing six american in mumbai and many indians. >> are there any recommendations on how to minimize the threat? >> one way is to either to a

plea attempt competing services --o provide competing services or supported the nation state in areas they operate to provide similar services. they fill a vacuum that the state does not provide. >> let me comment that in dealing with terrorism and al qaeda and g. heileman -- and jihad, we try to do everything we can tmake sure that we did able their leadership and control and operations. one of the things we have to pay attention to is the rger messe