meet and talks about the economy and job creation in his state. ..

>> send us a message to journal this is how the story shows on the front page of the "washington post" this morning.

wrapping up the pressure. the administration sited the risk to american lives to events in libya over the past week. with virtually all americans and other foreigners gone we are moving quickly. european powers circumstance late a draft resolution. that would impose international economic sanctions and target gaddafi, his sons and his travel ban.

>> do we have the right to impose sanctions.

when we are imposing the workforce from the policy we constructed >> we have the idea that wir looking fpatrick, if we are not to use sanctions how do we get them to move in a way that is more beneficial.

good morning. i hope you'll allow me. i'm a nervous first-time caller. >> if you turn that down, we'll have a better conversation. it does not take a very smart person to understand what is happening in libya. we did the same thing in iraq. we demonized saddam the same

thing we tried to do and they are still trying to do in iran. it is time that america stop allowing the tail to wag the dog. listen to reason. gadhafi has been mistreated we

have done everything to that man to make him hate america. we know the power here in this country why isn't somebody leaning on israel about human treatment announcer: we'll leave it th e there. next up, from wisconsin. michael on the line, you are on with washington journal. caller: boy that last phone

call kind of left me speechless mowing down and murdering these people. i seriously doubt whether these guys care whether they are going to starve to death or not. there's got to be something you can go as a whole.

i know this is not going to do anything but make the people who are suffering suffer more. we have this on twitter writing no one knows how afbtive this will be. stand with libyans. back to the phones, pittsburgh, ray, you are on washington journal. >> what do you think about u.s. iment positions on libya. it is a start. you got to start somewhere.

the libyan military are bailing ship slowly announcer: we'll leave it there. more from the story in the "washington post"." >> u.s. banks manage as much as half a million. longstanding u.s. sanctions have been eased as

>> i think both sets of solutions are very lame. these take a month, if not a year to be affective. as far as immediately calling gaddafi to trial for war crimes, he'll been trenched to stay put and fight it out. that's my response to those two questions. i would like to ask why is it owe bamenta was so getty about the insurrecollection in egypt

and libya and everything took them forever to come around to say anything. thank you >> it does sound really clear from the videos and witnesses that there are some terrible things going on there it would probably be better for the

united states to get this violence to stop as soon as possible. let's go to baltimore. john on the line for republicans. welcome. caller: what a lot of people

aren't understanding is the arabic. the translator left out a lot. the way we have to do this. he wants to get killed. he feels that if he gets killed. he tells them that he'll be a marter. the only way we are going to do this, with this kind of snack. we have to take him up the mountain and choke him slowly or take him out in a way that seems

like we didn't actually do it. we have this twitter message who writes enforce no fly zone and asking the rebels to take oil wells peacefully. assisting those to take them peacefully. what do you think about that? >> he's called on other factions to take over the streets. he's basically acting like the devil at this point. he wants them to keep the power for them. it is sad we don't see this and we are being told about this announcer: john for republicans

out of maryland. we are talking about u.s. imposing sanctions on the u.s. the ap is reporting that the u. n. agrees to meet on saturday. they ponder what to do about the bloody crack down they have agreed to take-

host: back to the phones. what do you think about the u.s. impositions on libya. >> they'll be as much as those sanctions for palestine announcer: thank you for taking my call. whereabout is that? caller: 13.5 miles outside of downtown denver, colorado announcer: what do you think about the u.s. sanctions? caller: i believe it is the exact move america needs to make. we need to prosper and push out

to the entire world, freedom. nothing happens overnight. today is a day for new worlds to be developed. for the people to believe and understand that it is a pain staking process for liberty. as americans, this is probably a great thing for us to believe and a lookout to the people and understand that there are people like us that we need to support as much as possible. we have this headline, he wants aids to craft an approach. saying peter and paul write

officials are emerging the governments caller: it almost come $out of a sarah palin play book. we as americans need to step back and allow the libyan people to develop their own constitution. their own liberty sanctions i mean their own liberty or government. as americans, we don't need to influence what they are doing.

if we allow the people to develop their own world and not create conflict with the rest of the world, we will create the economy that will take us to a new level. >> another twitter message this morning. those european nations with closer ties to libya are leading the way and calling for for gaddafi to step down. the world fact book.

30% unemployment. literacy about 82% and it imports 75% of its food.

>> the dispatch for the un human rights council on monday. caller: i think he needs to get a stronger hand. there is many, many different coats over there. they are not on the central

power. he has to get strong or we'll have another iraq over there with different groups. >> queens new york. we are showing you video of folks being evacuated from libya. folks were finally able to leave the port over there. you are on the line for washington journal. caller: here we go again. thomas jefferson sent the marines over there early to the shores of tripoli. we node to leave other people's

business alone. we need to leave them. we have attached all of the assets these people have. if they want to fact, let them fight. if we want justice, we need to lock up bush, cheney and rumsfeld. we have troubles here we need to pay attention to. if they want to fight, they need to fight. i believe this. he who helps fight for your freedom can take it away too. just like in iraq. if saddam was sitting on sand, he would still be alive today. when we get involved. only those in our country benefit. the sadness is looking around

us. look what we did to cuba. millions of people have died because of the european expansion some other stories in the news. the stop gap may overt the federal shut down. the prospect of the federal government shut down as how republicans propose --

>> the u.s. sanctions on libya. he kind of wants world war.

if we go in there with guns blazing. it's really what he wants. it has to be dealt with that way to a certain degree. if that leadership is there. there is no easy solution. just because it works in the past, that doesn't mean he wants it now. i have to a grow because you can't just jump in there. we have a lot of other people who want to shoot at us with the same desire. if you've got a bully in an elementy school boating

everybody up, that would be gaddafi. the bully doesn't really care announcer: this is from the "new york times" article. u.s. announces sanctions says that the european leaders have been more aggressive. the world should intervene. calling on the organization to improve the embargo. back to the phones. more on our discussion regarding u.s. impositions on libya.

good morning. you are on washington journal. caller: where is the out cry >> the pilot from austria hasn't

fled already. the person from c-span who had the great coverage -- can i say one more announcer: let me ask you. you said you had just gotten back from libya. how long were you over there? caller: less than a week announcer: what were you doing there? caller: import-exporter announcer: you were in tripoli? caller: yes. he doesn't want the media to see. what he did yesterday, he shocked hundreds of people.

those injured and went to the hospital. they took them out and buried them alive so the media would not see that and it is exposed to the world. he is insane. >> do you get the feeling that this was something bubbling up with them on their own or did they get the incentive to do this from what they had seen in other countries? caller: good question. a lot of people always make speculation. for the last 41 years has had people who came from tunisia. what he did, he took them to a place that was a jail. 1500 people were massacred in one day.

every year this happens. every year. he takes them down. he doesn't jail them. he kills them. the issue has encouraged the libyans to yes, we can do it to hang in there. this protester has maybe nothing. when his thugs. to have the biggest sniper. imagine i come to your house and try to rob you. i'll take your house. it's just unbelievable. >> in puerto rico.

>> government military forces open friday host: in virginia , you are on the line for washington journal. caller: i'm not really surprised by the media. when you recall on 9/11 when george bush sat in that classroom for 9-30 seconds. he received so much about that. do you see the double standard

or is it just me? >> do you think the president should have imposed these sanctions earlier in the process? caller: absolutely. the media should have been on him from day one host: this twitter message this morning writes, the u.s. should impose a no fly zone host: more from the "washington post." talking about gates who is calling for the effort to train this is in a speech.

he is expected to leave his post and creating a later role and warned the army to rid itself compared with the gusher of defense spending. in particular, he suggested that the army would have a tough time justifying the spending on army which would be the core enforced for decades. florida. bill is on the line for democrats. >> didn't we use sanctions on iran? we've used sanctions on cuba. didn't work. sanctions are not the answer in

my opinion. >> we don't know who is trying to take over that country. tell me specifically what it is you want to do. that's why we have these people in washington. you and i don't know what's going on over there have you been watching the coverage? caller: i have. i don't agree with sanctions. we got our problems here at home

we need to take care of. steven writes, i think this should be handled by nato. there are so many lives at stake. >> in denver, on the line host: good morning. what do you think about the sanctions? caller: i don't agree with sanctions. it hurts the people more than the person they are trying to topple. they asked to enforce the no fly zone. they say they want to win it on their own. they don't need america if they

want to be a partner with you. 95% are exportered the primary

custome customers. next up, fort wayne on the line. welcome to washington journal.

>> what affect do you think this will have on the situation. >> it is going to make it a more level playing field. if they are going to take occur of their problem, make it a level playing field

host: back to the phones. orange county, california. caller: i listen to everybody and have been watching this situation. i'm a photo journalist myself. this man has never for given

ronald reagan. he is going to attack america. we will see what stress he's under and the full plate he has here in this country. he has this other problem here and the problem also in egypt as well.

you will say i can't take the stress. the men doesn't have just a minute to take a deep breath and just say ok. let's handle one thing at a time i ask god to be with this man for another four years and give him time to prove himself. they said the un security council is likely it also says

the european movement government on the asset freeze in an agreement to be taken early next week. san antonio, texas. caller: i'd like to say something quick. what the first lady said, the first caller. she was on the point. i was in the navy and in the pacific when the bomb was dropped on japan. i fought the chinese

>> if you want more information 0 n that go to our website. coming up in about 45 minutes discussing diplomacy. after this break, a discussion on consumer confidence as it hits a three-year high. we'll be right back.

he shares his thoughts on president obama and is possible

run in the 2012 election. 6:30 and 9 p.m. eastern and pacific. i think the system are not operated properly. there are three essential powers the first two powers are meaningless if they are not doing that. see the rest sunday night on c-span's "q&a." with congress in recess see what

house members had to say about hr 101. washington journal continues. here to talk to us about consumer confidence hitting a three-year high. what kind of signs are we seeing that lead you to say consumer confidence is up? >> we saw the index that came out a lot of that is the forward looking optimism and

unemployment, we saw the numbers go down to 9%. a boost from the payroll tax cut consumer spending is about a large percent of the u.s. gdp. with the number we saw here it is great, we still have a long way to go. we haven't seen those levels since 2007. he said this should be the year that confidence grows job gains will be the catalyst although

the broad strength will provide other supports as well the falling unemployment and boost are offsetting the price of gas prices following unemployment and the economist with an littics that the falling unemployment is going to offset what we expect to see in spring and summer in terms of high gas prices. this is right now. it could be temporary this will affect consumer wallets.

if people don't know where their next paycheck is coming from, they are going to be not very optimistic. experts say they plan on hiring another 5,000 people soon small businesses say they are hiring if you'd like to get involved in the conversation.

call us. host: a lot of folks will watch what happens in washington. give us the sken far yoes if it happe happens. if it can't come to an agreement and shuts down. guest: there are these shock events that do have impact there

has been talk to really move things forward when i talk to experts, they say it will probably last about four months >> are consumers spending more? if so, where are they spending their money. caller: numbers were disappointing overall. >> one bright spot was spending that was up. i think that the boost of dispose al income has really

helped a lot. there is an expectation that the economy will grow. they are holding on longer and not throwing things away where we seeing more educated shopping are they going to hold on to things more? are they looking for things that are a higher value, quality as opposed to something they will not want. they are really thinking twice about the things they need to be

buying host: on the republican line. david. caller: good morning. groceries have gone up 10-15 pirs. that is opposite of consumer spending for these people. there's a lot of factors right now that could impact how

consumer confidence swins we are still not at the level. it's slowly inching forward. everyone isn't seeing the consumer confidence. they do a survey between 2,000 and 5,000 we are seeing in california and nevada that some states have high er numbers tha

others. lower home prices. their home is their biggest asset. there is more of a supply than there is demand. >> next up, new york on the line for democrats. there is plenty of gas and oil in the united states. we need to get away from the oil in the middle east. maybe open up government gasoline stations. we could get out of debt within

a year and a half. people would be able to use their gas to get back and forth to work. people who are employees and can't even go out to use a job. how many people are actually really out of work. suppose the government did use the gas. the government has to hire people with great jobs. go ahead. he's saying to have the government take over the gas industry. you could look at that a couple different ways there's a lot of

independent companies to rely on. you are right we saw the unrest in north africa. the average price of gas is around 3:29. up about $20 per trip. >> how much time and lag is there going to be before we see more people working to produce what these people are putting their money out for? i think when we look at these monthly figures, we have to keep

in mind that they are monthly figures they expect it to be another year before we see recove recovery. . .

both parties say yes we want to cut spending u but who doesn't. but niter side identifies clear, concise ways to do it. they don't discuss it together and they don't put any information out so that when we look at where is all the pork, you know, ok, i'm sure there is lots of it but i wish an independent group would put out a list of every single one of the amendments or the pork projects and identify them so that we could hold them accountable. i'm not even sure that the congress or the senate knows what those things are unless they really dig deep. guest: so he's saying that

consumers are not really about the spending and the savings, it's the confidence levels coming from policy makers. and that does weigh in on the minds of consumers. if they're going to be cutting spending we have a huge deficit of $1.6 trillion. we're going to be talking about raising the debt ceiling. these are all factors that play into where their paycheck is coming from, if jobs are going to be created. and it boils down to jobs, jobs, and whether policy makers can come to agreement on spending cuts and funding the government like this next week coming up, a spending bill. that has an impact on consumer confidence as well. host: what exactly is consumer confidence? guest: it's a mersure of spending and savings. it's a good indicator of what consumers will be spending. and consumer spending makes up about 75% of u.s. economic

growth ing a prominent role coming up. 6 host: are these more like clothes, food? >> i didn't look at the specifics. host: all right. let's go back to the phones. pennsylvania, for republicans, you're on the "washington journal." caller: hi. i can answer that last question. host: ok. caller: it's spending on, in my case, food and necessities. i was disabled in a car accident two years through chedge and receive ssi and food

stamps. and at this point, i don't know where other people are shopping but the amount of food stamps doesn't even last a month and i don't buy any kind of protein as far as meat, chicken, fish, anything like that. and not much milk. so -- and as far as disposable income, i mean, there just isn't because you have to try and make up for some in the groceries. host: so are you saying that you're in a position now to buy more food or better quality food? caller: no. i buy less. i can't buy .

host: so your consumer confidence is actually down. caller: yeah. and most people in the area i live in that i have a friend who also receives food stamps and it doesn't make it for her family through a month, either. host: thanks. guest: absolutely. these indises are trying to take a snapshot of the bigger picture. they aren't going to capture everyone. we still have 9% unemployment. 50 million people unemployed. and that's conservative. that doesn't include all the self-employed people, people who work part time. there's a lot of factors here. and absolutely, food stamps, people who are on food stamps has esclate to numbers we haven't seen before and that is absolutely true. so consumer confidence may not be at the same level for

everyone. and this is an extraordinary peak number. 90 or above is what we should be seeing for a healthy economy and that's not where we are right now. so right now there was a boost in holiday spending, retail sales are expected to go up. business isize pected to hire, they're expecting more spending. but right now there's a lot of factors. we're talking about the government shutdown and the situation in lybia, rising gas prices. these are all factors. this is a monthly snapshot. yes, it's an improvement, we're going in the right direction. but it always comes down to what hits at home. and what she's saying about the food stamps and jobs and that type of thing, absolutely consumers are been under pressure from the job market. they haven't been seeing the pace of jobs created as they

should be. we added 36,000 jobs in january. we should be at 200 to 250,000 jobs per month to really make a dent in the unemployment number. and like wise for the economic growth. we saw the annual pace of 2.8% last year. very disappointing. again, if we want to make a dent in the unemployment number we should be one full year of 5%. so you've got to take it with a grain of salt. this is a monthly snapshot, doesn't cover everyone and the figures aren't where they should be but they're getting better is the main idea there. are host: and the associated press this morning they talk about the republican address.

your thoughts about what senator portman has to say. guest: well, a lot of republicans have come out saying that the president's budget wasn't where it should be doing. there's a lot of new house republicans who are slashing spending as seen with the current spending bill that we're trying to get through right now. they have $61 billion in cuts and now they have another $4 billion in cuts. a lot of the programs they've cut out takes aim at some of

the president's initiatives, such as high feed rail. they took $-- high speed rail they took $1 billion out of that. it's all about putting the fiscal house in on the other hand. we are facing a deficit of $1.6 billion and we're going to be facing the debt ceiling coming up. so these are all issues that we need to be talking about. well, they are talking about it. working towards an agreement there. host: we're talking about consumer confidence. with jennifer depaul. if you'd like to read some of her contributions and bloggeds go to their website, the fiscal times.com. in the meantime you can talk to her directly like billy on the line for democrats from arkansas. go ahead. caller: yes. i would agree with ms. depaul. she has an understanding within -- we're looking at in a

monthly snapshot here and for the lady that called that was disabled earlier and on food stamps, i can understand her problems. i'm saddled myself. and i will say one thing. with all the stuff going on, overseas, and believe me i believe all those won't have to worry too long because i believe democracy is fixing to come through that area. host: we'll leave it there. guest: i guess i'm agreing that it's a snapshot figure again, the consumer confidence level. i think it's also important to point out there's another factor weighing in that could have further comberpabt is

about significant revision out of the commerce department yesterday would sustain local spending. that contracts to an annual 2.4%. and this really underscores the bigger picture which we've been seeing in wisconsin and other state capitals is this continuous government budget shortfalls. we're expected to see $125 billion in shortfalls. unfunded pension obligations. yes, there was a report out, we did a story on that a few weeks ago that tax revenues are expected to increase but ultimately over the last few years states have had that extra boost from stimulus funding. there was about $150 billion in stimulus funding. and that's dwindling out. so with lower tax revenues we're seeing these budget problems going into the next couple of years really and

that's why we're seeing these battles and debates going on. so that's an important thing to keep in mind as well . host: in the boston globe this morning, kathleen pierce writes about some painful food for thought. grocery prices surging. u.s. food prices are expected to jump between 3 and 4%, about twice the general rate of inflation after rising last year by the slowest rate since 1962. the increase is due to unusually inclement weather, high worldwide demand for u.s. agricultural commodities and rises gas prices. so is that going to put a ca bash on the consumer confidence? guest: absolutely. anything that hits home to the wallet. and you're if you're on a tight budget of course that's an absolute on your confidence levels. we have to see where the food levels are going, and we have

to see the harvest figures aren't bearing very well for consumers. so absolutely that will definitely have an impact. host: not bearing fruit, so to speak. fairfax, virginia. caller: good morning. i want to touch base on the first of all the guy that talked about having the government run gas stations. he clearly doesn't know that the united states post office was $5.2 billion under water last year. beyond that, you're talking about consumer confidence but i think what we're seeing happening in our society today is a government confidence problem. and it couples with consumer confidence in that it's turning us into a more quasi social welfare society because of our dependence on government in order to make us feel comfortable. and consumer confidence. not unlike the middle east where they're trying to form democracies where it will never be possible. when we try to translate our

society or migegrates itself into a socio -- socialist society, it's going to be a complete failure. but what most republicans, which i am, don't understand is that this dependence on government is democratic and republican. so you can't make harsh statements towards democrats when we're all in the same boat when it comes to reliance on government which is what i think we're shifting to way too much. and to cure that is to slink the government but to find smarter ideas of how to do business. and i drew up this business model. why not have all the postal mail be delivered to your local grocery stores and starbucks in box that is you might pay for. that would be one way to cure it but the problem is, of course we lose $42.-- i think about 42,000 jobs. what do you think about all that?

host: go hade. guest: delivering your post to star bucks. i mean, that would put the postal service out of business for sure. you're right, they have been seeing some declining numbers there. i don't know how we would have to shift towards that method. we would have to try it out, i guess. but, you know, as you were talking about relying on government and shrinking government, a lot in the past few years the government has been trying to help out in spur economic growth and jobs. that's their position with the federal stimulus funds and you can really argue one way or another if it was effective or not. but the whole idea of relying on government in helping consumers move forward so they can land on their own feet. host: the chicago trbune has this story on their front page. the county board voted friday to repeal the rest of a

controversial sales tax increase give me the pros and cons of doing something like that, rolling back the sales tax. i guess is that something like that going to do a lot to get people in stores and get them to spend money? and then by doing that, how much is it going to hurt like county governments in terms of what they can provide for the residents of places like cook

county? guest: i think rolling back the sales tax, like i said, we've seen tax revenues decline already. i think that states and local governments are doing a variety of different things in efforts to balance their budgets. we're facing a budget crises. if that helps spur consumers to spend more, then great. that's good for their local economy and it's getting more people out there. that may work for their county but it may not work for another county. it really depends obdefinitely certain demographics and specifics. whether the unemployment right there is higher or lower than other areas. and as well as the foreclosure rates. so it could work there but not somewhere else. host: next up, georgia. robert on our line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. ms. depaul, are you one of the ones that are putting out the idea that consumer confidence

is at a three-year high? guest: well, i'm not putting it out. i was just reporting on a couple of indises that we saw this week. again, this is a monthly snapshot. they put these out on a sample sides of people. but i'm not personally putting this out. this is what we're reporting on, the numbers that we saw . host: did you have a followup question? guest: caller: well, my consumer confidence is zero and as low as it's ever been and all my neighbors around me. and we live in a relatively upscale neighborhood. but the reason for that -- host: hold on a second. let me ask you. you say upscale neighborhood. what's the median income in your neighborhood? caller: well, i think my family's about $50,000. host: and is that a single? are you a single provider or is

that a two-family income? caller: absolutely not. i was in business for 17 years and mr. bush made sure that i had to go out of business. but that's beside the point. the only jobs you could get was like $10 an hour. and that equates to $400 is a week. and i really don't care whether taxes go up or whether growsries gow up or whether gas prices go up. once you take that money out of my pocket, i do not have expendable income to go and buy all the stuff that's being imported into this country until we go to making the merchandise that we are consuming and the people over to your left there in that building, the house of representatives and the senate, represent us and those jobs for what we consume are manufactured in this country, consumer confidence is never going to come up and we will

see what happened in egypt and is going on in lybia now occur in this country. it's just a matter of time. i thank you for your time. host: robert in georgia. guest: well, he was saying that consumer confidence is never going to come up. again, these are indises, you can't completely rely on them, they're just indicators of what we have been seeing. this is a fifth consecutive monthly increase, a three-year high. so again, it depends on specifics for where people are gee graphically, what their personal situation is. but i think that the economists and experts i've talked to do expect it to resume to normal levels and continue on this track of gaining momentum and seeing improved confidence in the economy. host: if gas prizes to $4 or $5 a gallon, what do you expect to

be the long-term impact? guest: i think if it rises another 50 yents right now, it's going to impact the wallet. it's irrespective of the price, frankly. the long-term impact is that you won't, consumers won't be spending as much and won't be getting out there as much if they're spending it all on gas and food prices. host: and the last time the gas prices rose, how long did it take for consumer confidence to get back to an acceptable or a high level like it is now? guest: that's a really good question. you know, i don't think i quite know that answer off the top of my head. host: memphis, tennessee. gregory on our line for democrats. caller: yes. good morning. ms. depaul, is it ponl that we as consumers are consuming too much and being wasteful? where it's not -- we should

keep it at a minimum? to me, other countries only view us as consumers. i think greed has really somewhat ruined the country. and if everybody had a level of respect of greed and consumering too much, other countries all tover world view this country as greedy and consumers. to me, this should be a level where -- how do you feel about that? that's really what i'm trying to get at. shouldn't there be a level where we shouldn't be so much recognized by the world as just consumers only? guest: host: we'll leave it there. guest: sure. i think that's a personal decision whether you're greedy or not. and there's some people have or more cognizant of what their budgets are and don't go beyond their means. i think like i said, there was a report in the "new york times" today saying that they

looked at the report saying that in fact consumers are holding on to their possessions longer. and maybe they're having higher quality products that will last longer and use them longer. which would suggest that consumers aren't as greedy as the stereo tip kling image would subject. host: also related to our last caller's question. how much of production of how much of an element of consumer confidence is production? guest: to u.s. consumer goods? host: yes. guest: we did see the rise there in u.s. goods and services. that was about 6.7%. and the recovery is going to strengthen and continue on that process. so we are seeing those goods maintain at a pretty strong level. host: next up, james out of kentucky on our line for democrats. good morning. caller: hello. host: where is owl county,

kentucky? caller: [inaudible] host: what's your question? caller: well, my consumer confidence is zero. and also, my confidence in the government is zero. i don't have any confidence at all. host: all right. we're going to leave thrit and move on to steve on our line for republicans out of las vegas this morning. go ahead. caller: hi. host: you've got a question or comment regarding consumer confidence? caller: i have a comment. and i'm actually on the books of going, i'm kind of upset with the fact that the people that are in government are making more money than i'm making and they get better health care than i get.

i work very hard for my money. and they go on strike. i mean, like the government unions and everything, i'm all for unions and everything, identify been a working man my entire life. but i find the people behind the counter at dmv and the government employees are getting more money and making a better living off my paycheck than i'm making. i think that's probably one of the big problems with this country. i think that they need to at least come back down a notch or two just to get back to reality because it's not a sfare practice. i mean, we have law enforcement, we have all the public services that we need. i think that there has to be some balance between that. and i think that could definitely help the economy.

i think the economy is moving forward. this stuff that's going on in the middle east, i think that's a george bush policy that's moving forward. i think that was probably one of the master plans that is moving forward and hopefully in a positive way. and i hope obama works it properly. host: steve, we're going to leave it there. guest: he's saying it's unfair that the government employees are making more money than he. there's a lot of people making more money than i am. there's always a discrepancy. but it also goes back to the point that we're having this discussion in wisconsin and talking about the pensions and to try to balance budgets and get things under control with the unfunded pension liabilities and talking about compensating state employees and government workers. and i think a lot of governors are really taking on that issue

and discussing whether there should be reforms or not. so i think that's what we're looking at right now. host: neil irwin and michael fletcher have this in the post. guest: i think they are twofold. they are two different issues. you know, like i said, the oil price rising, that definitely has an impact on gas prices which directly impacts the consumer. the issue about cutting back

state and ll budgets and government spending and that sort of thing is more of a local issue and really depending on what each state decides to do would affect consumers differently. and not necessarily have the same sort of impact across the country there. host: our last call for jennifer comes from jackson, mississippi this morning. ed on our line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. my question or i guess somewhat of a theory is dealing with jobs is the fact that i think that so far as investment has changed in this country, i think that we have a situation where the major capitalists do not necessarily invest in the stock market. the stock market is now for the average joe. that's with the internet and all this. i think the major capital lists are now investing in

derivatives as well as the hedge funds. and the hedge funds has created some of the major problems that we have so far as job employment because hedge funds are, they're basically investing in places like china, india, and this is where the lower, the jobs are being, the people are paid much less than americans. and this is the situation now that we blame china for everything. but it's really the hedge funds that are investing in these places. and that's where the, again, the capitalists are get more profit and jobs are not going to come back to america with this situation. host: ed, we'll leave it there. guest: i think i investment in the country has been a strong point on president obama's agenda we've been talking about the sput nick venture and

looking at different way ways to invest. just yesterday we saw a group of democratic governors meet with the president to talk about jobs. and i think going forward there's been ideas about the infrastructure and the idea of an infrastructure bank and how we could create jobs by building bridges, by building highways and really rebuilding some of the crumbling infrastructure we have. so shifting that way and creating jobs in that sense, remains to be seen if that would help the economy move forward and create the jobs we need to see. host: jennifer depaul of the fiscal times, thank you for coming on the "washington journal." guest: thanks for having me . host: in about 45 minutes we're going to be talking with the governor from montana. as jennifer depaul mentioned, some of them met with the president yesterday. we'll be talking about that as well as the items on the mga

agenda. coming up after the break, a discussion regarding u.s. diplomacy in the middle east and unrest. but first, a look at the week's news through the ice of political cartoonists. we'll be right back.

host: jim is the founding executive director of the george w. bush institute and formerly institute administration and is here to talk to us about u.s. diplomacy and middle east unrest. welcome to the program. guest: thanks. host: talk to our viewers about the latest headlines out of the middle east and the role the u.s. is playing in moving certain situations in certain directions. guest: well, first let me say that what you're seeing in the middle east is an expression, a very brave expression of freedom. president bush said that freedom is universal. that is to say it doesn't just

apply to people in europe or asia it applies to muslims around the world. and a lot of people doubted that they were ready for freedom, they wanted freedom. so all people deserve freedom. freedom also brings stability. but certainly there is a rough time getting to democracy. so what we're seeing is a desire for freedom sweep the middle east. we don't know how things are going to turn out, quite frankly. but it's kind of hard to put this particular genie back into the bottle. and that's good. host: talk to us about how the youth in these countries are moving this movement forward. and what do they look for in terms of support from the united states in terms of what it is that they're doing in trying to change their countries. guest: well, i think all dissidents and certainly young people are looking for two things. one is moral support.

that is to say officials and others in this country saying we back your desire for freedom. the second thing is something closer to let's call a technical support or education. being a successful pro democracy disdebit is something that requires skills and you can certainly go out in the street and sometimes you're successful, as we've seen in lybia. but usually it's more complicated than that. and one of the thing that is we're doing at the bush institute is helping to educate pro-democracy dissidents both by having sim posia about what are the most successful ways to express and achieve freedom and also by showing what people who have gone before have done. so we're developing something called the freedom collection that includes a video history from people like pavlo in the

czech republic or sir live in liberia, dissidents from north korea, to find out what has worked and hasn't worked. we're seeing a movement that similar to what happened in 1848 when a desire for freedom swept through europe. host: last tuesday, secretary of state clinton had a speech regarding internet security at george washington university and she talked about some of the challenges in finding a way of measuring the liberty and security on the internet, and we're going to take a look at what she had to say. when we come back, i want to talk to you about the internet and social media's role in the movements that we've been seeing in the middle east. >> the first challenge is achieving both liberty and security. liberty and security are often presented as equal and opposites. the more you have of one, the less you have of the other.

in fact, i believe they make each other possible without security liberty is fragile. without liberty, security is oppressive. the challenge is finding the proper measure. enough security to enable our freedoms but not so much or so little as to endanger them. finding this proper measure for the internet is critical because the qualities that make the internet a force for unprecedented progress, iths openness, its leveling effect, its reach and speed also enable wrong doing on an unprecedented scale. host: jim, your response. guest: well, i'm proud to say that during our tenure at the state department with the support of secretary of state rice and president bush who was aware of everything that we were doing, we really brought the notion of facilitating the spread of freedom through

social media into the forefront, and i worked with colleagues such as jerry cohen and others. and we did some important work. and i'm very happy to see that secretary of state clinton has picked up on a lot of this and really had advanced it. so what she's saying is that a free internet is absolutely necessary to freedom. she is also bringing up the issue of security. i would actually raise that in a slightly different way. one of the things we said in the national security plan at the, during the bush administration, was that freedom enhances security. that is to say free people want the kinds of government that promotes stability. and we are seeing around the world in places like china, certainly iran, countries around the world attempts, and not just the ones where the regimes that are under fire

now. but attempts to limit access and limit the ability of people to communicate using the internet. that's a huge, huge mistake. it's a mistake economically, it's a mistake morally. and i'm glad that secretary of state clinton is out there pushing for freedom on the internet. host: we're talking with the executive director of the george w. bush institute about u.s. diplomacy and the unrest in the middle east. if you'd like to get involved in our conversation, give us a call. if you've called in the last 30 days, today would be the day to use some of that social media. you can send us a message via e-mail and twitter. and we'll try to get to as many of those as possible. tell us, what is it that has surprised you the most about this wave of uprisings in the

middle east, the speed with which it seems to go from one country to the next country to the next country. guest: well, that's certainly part of it is the speed. and also, the countries that are involved. first of all, a very, very oppressive state that it would happen there i think with such ferosty is something of a surprise. and also bahrain, which is a relatively rich tiny country. i would also point out that there has been a lack of attention lately toward iran. a lot of people have been talking about arab countries and of course iran is a persian country. but this really all began in iran in 2009. that was the start. not 1979 but in 2009 in iran after the election, the rigged election. and now it is circling back to iran. that the iranians, young iranians have picked up on what

egyptians have done. iran is also an example of why simply going into the streets with demonstrations is not enough. and i think you're going to be seeing the iranian protesters, the iranian swing movement moving to other tactics. host: in the guardian this morning, and in a televised address the connell said he would open up his arsenals. last night, the united states issued sanctions, talked about sanctions that they're going to impose on them. do you think that this is the time and that is the move for our administration and other governments in europe to be clamping down issuing these kinds of sanctions? guest: i don't want to second guess our administration in tactical matters. that's something that i don't think somebody sniping from the

sidelines should be doing that in my position. i do think, however, that it is very important to give moral support to these freedom advocates, the people out there in the streets, to show them this is what we believe in, in america. i think in general that the obama administration handled egypt well, very, very tricky business, and so i'm not sure whether they're handling lybia as well but i know it's not something that's easy. but absolutely it is in the united states' best interest that these, all of these countries, move to democracy in a stable way. host: the pew forum report that came out recently found that 503r9s of the population across -- 50% of the population across north africa is under the age of 30. in terms of what we've been seeing so far and what you've

been able to observe regarding the age of the people involved and the issues that are involved, who do you think, which country do you think is going to be next? i don't want to start talking about dominos but which country do you think will be next to sort of pick up this revolutionary spirit and start moving out into the streets and protesting against their government? guest: i do think the most significant country that's going to be next is iran. i think that the movement is being reignite. i mean, the iranian government cracked down very, very hard anti-- on the demen straitors. the government figured it out and they learned how to get people off the streets. but the iranians proving to other tactics and i think they're going to be successful, especially with the mezz that the iranian economy is in now. and i think with the tremendous animosity towards the iranian regime. host: our first call for jim,

executive director of the george w. bush institute comes from san diego, california. caller: good morning, c-span. and good morning, george. i wanted to say that i'm a bit tired of our government trying to purchase democracy around the world. i don't believe you can buy it. i believe it has to be something that is won by the people of the country who desire democracy just as our forefathers did. and i think we've wasted a tremendous amount of blood and treasure. and god rest every armed services member who might have perished in this endeavor. but i think we are throwing good money after bad money when we should be watching out for ourds at home. so what i would like to propose is this.

let's cut the state department budget back and let's concentrate on what we've got to do here at home and quit trying to influence the world by winning the hearts and minds of people of different countries with billions of dollars and gallons of blood. host: john in san diego, california. caller: well, we live in a world, unfortunately, or fortunately, where what other people do outside the united states affects us directly. and we certainly saw that on 9/11. and it's in our best interests to have a secure united states for other countries to move to democracy. so that their people ask make free choices. i think there's a moral issue involved here. but even if you don't think that there's a moral issue there's certainly a national security issue. and by the way, i completely agree with your sentiment about

thanking and blessing our service members who have died or been wounded in this struggle. but i think it's an important struggle. host: jane on our line. caller: i was wondering why -- ok, we are in the middle east and we are fighting, we are losing men, god bless them. why do we not concentrate on the united states? we are getting to be a mess. we have money for everybody else. but there's no help here for the united states, i mean, the average person paying $3 and $4

a gallon for gas. that's ridiculous. host: but most of the activity that we've been watching over the last couple of weeks in egypt and tunisia and yemen and now in lybia is their own people who are rising up. host: but do you understand we're sending millions of dollars everywhere else but not -- we, not to ourselves. host: jim. guest: well, i think the main point is that what happens around the world affects us. and you mentioned the high price of gasoline and that's something that is a result of what's happening in other parts of the world, not happening in -- not the result of what's happening in texas or oklahoma or places where we get gas in the united states. we can't pull away from the world. so even if you don't think there's a moral imperative -- and by the way, this is not

unusual. we fought in world war ii. we sent troops, we lost 300,000 people in world war ii. we fought in world war one. you can say, what did that have to do with us? and here, in a relative sense, we don't have as much in the way of troops or dollars involved. and as rob said, these are indiginous uprisings. now, i have to say that we provided some help. we've done some work in egypt, for example, certainly did during our administration to help build civil societies as much as we could to prepare people for the day when they would have democrat sifment and i think that's a good thing. >> host: memphis, tennessee, for democrats. . caller: the people are fighting for low wages and stuff. the richer are getting richer just like here in the united states. soon it's going to happen here. and then they're talking about the ilepoices. every time a problem comes up with the east, these rich oil

executives here raise these prices. when they've got people here sick. they should be taking that money, helping the unemployed, helping the people with health care and everything. people here are dying because they don't have health care. but yet and still the united states goes somewhere else sticking their nose in everybody else's business, not take ig care of their own. host: we'll leave it there. guest: well, this might be a good time to put in a plug for my book. i have a new book called safetynet. and it is about how to cope with a time of turbulence for investors. you know, and we can't wish these things away. this is a turbulent time in global history i think it's something we're going to be able to work through but i think all americans need to provide for their retirement. and by looking at what's happening and by making adjustments in the strategy in your investment strategy, you

can make out much better than if you don't pay attention to this. that's what my book is about. host: getting back to u.s. diplomacy. talk to me about the different type of foreign service officer that's out in the field these days in 2011 as opposed to the persons that we might have seen manning the embassies around the world say in the 70's, the 80's or 90's. guest: i think there is a growing consciousness. just in the past few years, about the importance of social media. and there always has been an emphasis on connecting with the local population. my job at the state department was to communicate with public rather than with official. and a lot of the people in the state department are out there doing that.

there were some comments about the state department's budget which in a relative sense say compared to the defense is not very high. but i do think that it's time o take a look at the functions of the state department and how many of those functions can actually be accomplished through social media perhaps even at a lower cost than they are being accomplished today. host: do you envision a time when more diplomacy is going to be done through social media and there by cutting back on some of the face-to-face meetings that we have between ambassadors and our own secretary of state? guest: well, i think as far as ambassadors are concerned or at an official level i don't think there's going to be a change. but a lot of the work that we do is directed at public. and i think there, yes, i think there will be changes. and those changes really began in 2008 and probably the most significant event i think

anyway was a meeting in new york in december of 2008 with a group that became, we invited them to new york and event tullly became something called alliance of youth movement. this was one of the lowest cost important programs i think the state department has ever embarked on. host: we're talking with james glassman regarding u.s. diplomacy in the middle east unrest. and we've got about another 20 minutes or so in our conversation. our next call comes from north port, florida only our line for republicans. jeff, you're on the worl. caller: good morning. the first thing i'd like to say is i really admire what the gentleman said a moment ago about not wanting to comment about what the obama administration, what tactics they're taking. i think that's very commendible. basically, what i want to ask

is two questions. one, do you think that the bush administration did a good enough job explaining to the american people in general what we're really facing over there? i mean, without trying to be, you know, to overkill or scare people too much? but i sometimes question whether or not typical americans really understand how bad things are in the middle east from a standpoint of education, from a standpoint of the fact that in a lot of these countries where they're having all these unrest they don't grow any of their own food, they have to import everything. these people lave completely different lifestyle than we do. and i sometimes wonder if you guys could have done beater job explaining to the american people that a lot of these people in afghanistan and iraq and iran, they believe whatever they're told by their governments. they have no access to the most part to understanding how we

live here. and how democracy, westernized democracy, you know, can uplift the people. and then my other question would simply be do you believe that we're putting enough money into like the c.i.a. and into, i hate to sound cold warish, but into spies and things like that? is it possible that maybe we could divert some of what we're spending on -- [inaudible] host: i think we've lost jeff. thanks for your question. guest: well, i think any administration can do a better job of communicating. i'm not sure i agree with your premise. it certainly is true that a country like afghanistan is very, very poor and there's a lack of education there, especially for women. although that has been changing. thank goodness. since what happened in 2002 and

the overthrow of the taliban. but you know, i believe, with president bush, that arabs and muslims are no different from anyone else and that given the right kind of governance and the right kind of economic system, they are going to thrive. they're going to become as well educated and as healthy and as prosperous and as contributery to global well being as anyone else. but they've got to get free first. and we've seen this around the world in countries like korea. who would have believed that korea 50 years later would be thriving the way it is? so, and i would also mention china in that same breath. so i think things are changing. but they begin with individuals being able to make their own decisions about the course they want to take and not have those decisions thrust upon them by

people like mo mar cad daffi. host: what kind of changes have to be made with regard to training the next wave of young diplomats coming from the united states where our foundation strictly adhere's to or tries to adhere to a separation of church and state and you're going into an area of the world where there's a very thin line between the secular and the nonsecular. guest: well, i think that people who come into the foreign service are pretty well educated about things like that. one of the things that i observed in the short time that i was at the state department was the difference in training and education during the time that one is working at a government institution between the state department, say, and the defense department or the military. in the military there is constant continuous education,

especially at the higher level. you do not move up in the military unless you have a good deal of education on the job. you take time out, you go and get advanced degrees, you learn a lot. that's not true at the state department. there is a very good educational institution at the state department. but by no means is there the intensity. part of that is a matter of resources but a lot of it is a matter of culture. and i'd like to see that kind of culture transplanted into the state department to keep people up to date. host: james was undersecretary of state for public diplomacy in the bush administration from 2008-2009. he is now the executeive director of the institute. part of his george bush presidential center is which is also includes a library and museum on the campus in dallas. the institute is dedicated to the research and action in four years. education, global health, human

freedom, and economic growth. back to the phones. ohio on our line for democrats. donna, you're on the "washington journal." go ahead. caller: yes. i want to make a couple comments. the first is it's hard when the average american income has gone down for them to even start to save for any kind of future retirement. it is very difficult. and especially when they're raising kids and trying to get them through college and everything else. but it's also important that if we are going to keep powerful and be a good image to the rest of the world, we need to become strong in our own country. and that includes getting off of our dependence on oil. i firmly believe that we do need fast trains, fast rails. we need to especially in florida, i live down there for

30 years during hurricanes. my god, what a mess trying to get people to go up i-75 or i-895. what a mess that was. people running out of gas and everything. we need certain -- we need to look at our country and strengthen it. that's basically what i feel. i believe we should help out other countries. but when it comes to the muslim countries, i very happy they're trying to become independent and become democratic like we are. but at the same time, they need to do this on their own time. our influence can only be seen through their eyes. and our country being a powerful nation. in itself. host: donna in dayton, ohio. guest: thanks for all those comments. and i agree with your last comment especially the idea that this is for them. these are indidge enough

revolts and they need to do it on their own time. absolutely. i think we need to give them, as i said earlier, moral support and educational support and that's what we're trying to do in our own way at the bush institute. your comments about energy also have some relevance to some of our work at the bush institute. we had a major conference on natural gas last year. the united states is sitting on just an enormous pool of natural gas. and we need to make it easier for us to extract natural gas and to use that to generate elect trity and to generate -- to use in transportation as well. so this is a supply question as well. it's really a shame, the united states has so much energy both gas and oil, that we're unable to get at, and there are environmental concerns certainly but i think some of these have been overstated. . .

is this speeding at the transformation, the

revolutionary process starks -- process? guest: this is a logistical means, means of communicating. in the past where you would have had to call people up, a poster, which is a dangerous thing to do, and into a demonstration, now you can just post something on facebook. our visiting fellow at the bush institute is a guy who got the started around the world. this was in 2007 in the columbia when he started a group called "1 million strong against the farq." they eventually put 12 million people around the world into the streets. certainly that would not have been possible without social

media. however, you need a strategy, of the will. social media alone is not in and of itself. host: or get on our line for independent scholars. you are on with jim glassman. caller: i have nothing to do with this, but i really miss condoleezza rice. two is with you being with the bush institute, i have a whole set of army national guard cards that i am so proud of from 919 president to serve in the militia, the national guard, and since 1920 george w. bush. i want to let you know that it is an exciting thing to me. as far as the unrest in the

middle east, i believe that although we should give them moral support, i did not believe in our current economic times that we should be giving them financial support. they have to understand that not only are they in financial straits but we are, too. we will no longer be the super power if we continue to have luxury items at a time when we do not have the luxury money. we should really cut down on our military bases where there are no longer needed. i understand there have been arguments that there are needed there, germany, places like that that had been there for many years. i cannot see why we cannot save money, scale back, bring those

troops home, that way if there is a reason we have to step in to one of these countries that we have that, we have those troops. guest: dr. rice is thriving. she has a book down which i would recommend to you. she's the chair of the advisory council for the bush institute. i work with her a great deal. she was a great secretary of state. as far as your comments about financial health, certainly with what is going on in the middle east there is not a lot of financial health of being pumped into the middle east in this movement towards democracy. i agree that they need to stand on their own two feet. one of the things that we absolutely can do that benefits the united states as much as it

does these economies is to promote more trade between them and us. host: north carolina on our line for republicans. you are on a "washington journal." caller: i was brought up when jimmy carter was president. he was probably the most incompetent president. why went into the marine corps, my recruiter participated in desert one. i was in beirut in 1983-1984. i cannot remember any other time that we have had such an incompetent, inept president becomes to the middle east. he is not doing a very good job. i think he could be doing better, his administration of the doing better. host: before you go. give me a specific example about what you are displeased with regarding the current administration and their

policies regarding the middle east. caller: he is not standing for anything. when we were in beirut, we were there to help the plo evacuate out of southern lebanon. we went to grenada because of the cuban issue building a large landing strip there. he is not doing anything. i was off the coast of libya when we bombed gaddafi. we actually did something. they bombed a disco in germany, we bombed them back. guest: think fee-for-service. i do not want to comment about the individual presidents.

host: without commenting on the current or past administrations on policies in the middle east, talk to me about the difficulty with working with different entities in the middle east because of the shifting political situation, leaders changing, desires of various populations changing. why is the middle east such a hard thing for the united states, especially for both demonstrations, to get their hands around? guest: my job in the state department was dealing with the public so i will talk about that. it has become much easier to communicate thinks to social media and satellite television. i do think one of the problems in the middle east, and this is true in all parts of the world, are these conspiracy theories

that kind of sweeping different countries. it is difficult to bad those kinds of notions had gone. the other problem was this narrative, this very powerful motion that the united states is out to destroy islam. that is pervasive. it is my feeling that the best way to combat that is to not say that we are not, but if you take it had gone i do not think it is all that effective. actually promoting and getting people to understand are a very different narrative. that has to do, in part, with what is going on now. it is about a desire for freedom on long muslim communities. they are as much deserving of

freedom as anything else. we are on the side of freedom. there is another conflict that has to do with a small group trying to take over a religion and that is really the story of the out qaeda -- al qaeda. it is not about what is happening at externally. this is an idea that i have promoted and we are now seeing this come to fruition. what is happening in the middle east is about the people there. it is not about the united states. we can give them moral support and educational support. host: orange county, california. go ahead. caller: we depend on oil like weed, oxycontin.

how do we check into oil anonymous clinic? biased against the [inaudible] people? guest: i do not think we are biased against them. i spent a lot of time with the palestinians when i was in the state department. our policy of the united states is two nations living side by side peacefully in security and that is not a bias. there has been a lot of comment today about financial aid. we have put a good deal of financial aid into the west bank and helping the palestinians. i think that financial aid has been very well placed. they're building up a civil society institutions, democratic institutions, and help our

economy and growing. that is working. that is a foreign-policy success. even though there has not been a resolution between the dispute of the palestinians and israelis, it is more important to build up the governance among palestinians and the details of any agreement. that may come later, it could come tomorrow. you want a sound government and a sound economy. host: alexandria, va., on our line for republicans. go ahead. caller: first of all, i wanted to speak about the libyan problem. listening to mr. glassman talking about palestinians, i would also like to interject a point that mr. glassman and alike, people like him, they need to understand that the american people are much more aware and educated about the

failures of the world. mr. glassman, they're trying to divert the conversation about the palestinians to become an issue of economic problems and aid when it is an issue of human rights, freedom, democracy, occupation that has been a very brutal. the execution of the u.n. resolution and israel is not submitting themselves to. guest: i take a backseat to no one in my support of freedom for all people. it was the very first thing that i said when this program began. freedom is universal and moslems around the world deserve and desire freedom as much as anyone else. i must say that a dispute with your saying.

freedom is absolutely important. you cannot have freedom in a vacuum. you need the kinds of civil society institutions and political institutions that make sustainable freedom possible. that is an important thing here. one of the things the president maroc and others -- president mubarak and others have done in the region is they have suppressed the development of civil society institutions. but at the state department, we try to help build those institutions and a lot more work needs to be done. democracy in a vacuum does not work for very long. it is important that the institutions. that is what i am saying about the palestinians. host: a couple of times you have mentioned your latest book, "safety net," a time of

stabilizing your investments and a time of unrest. you wrote an op-ed in "the wall street journal." in a nutshell, tell us why you were wrong about the dow 36,000? guest: every book in 1999. it expressed the conventional wisdom at the time and i think it is the conventional wisdom among financial advisor today. i've written a column off and on about finance for "kipling your's" for almost 30 years -- to blenders -- "kiplinger's." the conventional wisdom as they should go long on your stock for 20, 30 years. the world has changed.

the prudent thing is to protect yourself on the downside against the kind of events that we have seen lately the year 2000 it is a village in a couple -- it lately and 2008 is a good example of that. when i put forward is a strategy to protect yourself against the downside, give up a little bit on the upside to and have a much smoother ride. people get very, very anxious about investing, as they showed. -- as they should. this is a time to feel more comfortable about what you're doing during a time when the world is going through a particularly turbulent patch. host: jim glassman of the jurors of the bush institute. thank you for being on the program to talk about u.s. diplomacy today. we're going to take a short break. when we come back, the national governors' association is in town for a couple of days. we will be talking to the

governor of montana, brian schweitzer, right after this break. >> this weekend, governors were talk about how to for their states' economies, education, and cyber security as they gather in washington for the annual winter meeting. we will have live coverage throughout the weekend on c- span. this weekend on american history tv on c-span3, programs and the civil war including espionage and its effect on the bourse outcome. the role of women, maintaining the home front, and a behind- the-scenes look at president ford's 1975 chinese trick. american history tv with a complete weekend schedule on c- span.org/history. mit american history professor is on book tv's "indepth."

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"washington journal" continues. host: we will be talking with gov. brian schweitzer of montana part of the national governors association gathering here in washington this week. they are at the j.w. marriott here in washington, d.c. earlier this week, yesterday they had a meeting with president obama. you can super the news conference that came after -- you can see parts of the news conference that came after the meeting with president obama. it took place outside the white house. you can stream that news conference if you would like to hear what some of the governors had to say after their meeting with the president. joining us now from the j.w. marriott is gov. brian schweitzer, a democrat, from montana. thank you for joining us. what is on the agenda for the and ge meeting this weekend?

-- nga meeting? agenda iseveryone's creating jobs. montana is better than the rest of the country on some, but we stopped & unemployment. -- still have 10% unemployment. we need to create higher paying jobs and get things moving. we are a natural resource state and during a 30%; in america. -- we have a 30% of the cold in america. we have the biggest platinum, palaadium, copper, wheat. we need to get the rest of the country going as well. host: you have all those resources in montana. right now you have a budget

surplus. what do you tell the governors to do not have those natural resources and they're having to deal with budget deficits? how'd you get them to follow your lead and get them back on the surplus train? guest: i am not a very popular governor around these parts. the reason we have a surplus is because when the times were good, unlike other states we've saved the money. we built the largest savings account. i vetoed for the bills even worm -- even when times were good. during the last couple of years, we just the third down on our cash reserves and we did not cut programs or raise taxes. we still have money in the bank. host: we will get to the phones. especially people in the montana want to talk to you. we want to remind the rest of our viewers in the other 49

states as well as overseas that they can get in touch with us on 202-737-0001. we do encourage residents to give us a call. gerald on our line for democrats. go ahead. caller: god bless c-span and thank you for taking my call. we operate in the northwest montana with dave -- with a 501c3. we have a revenue-increasing housing solution. we have had encouraging correspondence from the federal reserve office.

an early outline of the solution was sent to your office in may 2010 and i am requesting the appropriate details that you could share with 49 other people. alohanoblehouseinc.com. thank you for your public service. guest: the most important question i have is how is the ice fishing? host: gerald is gone. hopefully if he decides to go out and do some ice fishing that the weather will stay cold

enough. guest: that will not be a problem because it is somewhere between -30 and -10. host: and his other concerns? guest: it was difficult for me to discern what exactly was talking about i encourage him to get ahold of my office and call at 444-3111. host: next about of detroit is neck from airline for republicans. -- nick on our line for republicans. caller: first of all, congratulations on all the resources you have in montana. host: this will work better if you turn down your television set. caller: two for 1.

i will not be able to hear your answering back because i have the tv down, but our natural resources are our people. we have good people in michigan. this is a really good steak. we are all hard workers. we just cannot seem to get the ball rolling to stay on top. first of all, the politics. you do not look like a politician. you look like a good, hard- working man which is a complement. the politics, like george bush, after his presidency was over in his said he was a politician and he really does not believe in the bible. well, we believe in the bible and we work hard. when we get ahead, you get

taxed and everything and then we have competition. i almost melted in the tundra with toyota and honda coming in with the pickups. host: we will leave it there, nick. if you turn down your sound by the time you hang up and turn on the tv, you can hear what's going on. guest: with all the natural resources we have in montana, the most important resource we have is our people. the chamber of commerce has rated montana the number one place to start your business. we have the sixth best friend in taxes and the fourth most educated population in america. virginia as the bumper sticker that says "virginia is for

lovers." i want montana to say "montana for engineers. it is not a politician to change the world. i was a rancher. this is the first job i have ever been elected to. it is not a politician to change the world. ideas and innovation changes the world. that is why we're trying to get every child in montana interested in science and math. the economy with the most engineers will have the most ideas and innovation. you always win with innovation. host: we will try to get the lights back on for your situation. here are some of the numbers for montana regarding the budget surplus. $355 million. on employment at 7.2% with the national average 9%. there were 684 foreclosures in late 2010, lowest in the nation. of the population of montana is 975,000.

as we continue to shed some light in this situation in montana as well as gov. brian schweitzer, let's take another call. this one is from illinois on our line for democrats. john, go ahead. caller: we had a conversation before. you're really held your own with mitch daniels yesterday. thank you very much. governor, vacation season is coming out of. could you tell me where to come to montana and visit? guest: of all the extraordinary places we have in montana, i will promise you that if you go to glacier national park, i did not know if you have any particular religion, but after you have been to glacial and

national park for a few hours and you are at the top of the continental divide, the only place in america where the water flows east, west, and north, something will overtake you. you will look around and say this place is so magnificent that it is impossible that this place was greeted the random act. it is impossible to adjust the forces of nature andrology over the course of a billion years could have created this remarkable place we now call glacier national park. it actually have the finger of god in creating it. i would say make it up to glacier national park. host: abilene, texas, on our line for republicans. you are on "washington journal." caller: first call, thank you to c-span for all that you do. i do have a comment and question. i am republican in abilene, texas. this is the first, have called in to c-span.

i what she's been quite a bit. my comment is to the governor. -- i watched c-span quite a bit. they talk about their state having a surplus. but here in taxes, it is a crazy situation nowadays. -- here in texas with education and the economy. from republican to democrat, thank you for your hard work in montana and having a surplus and talking about education. i believe education is very important. my question to you is what would you tell our governor if you had a chance to talk to him, the governor of texas, rick perry, on how to continue having a surplus in our state? at the same time we need to improve education. we will have to cut tens of

teachers who will not be returning next year. so far 120 here in abilene by ourself. that is a concern to me. i really like what you are doing in montana. i want texas to go by your example, governor. host: i do not know much about abilene, but they understand you can watch your dog run away for three days. each of the governors are ceo's of our businesses and our own states. the montana legislature is in session right now and i proposed a budget to than the 49 other states would poll their other teeth out if they could. we proposed increased funding for k-12 by 1.8%. we put enough funding into higher education to not have to raise tuition. we are raising the business equipment tax for businesses. but the end of the day, we will

still have the second-largest savings account in the history of montana. it is important to invest in education because we're going to attract new companies to come to montana. we may get them from tasmania or texas. we have a highly educated work force. as i said before, the economy with the most engineers always wins. host: in the associated press earlier this month, they reported on the ongoing budget and revenue dispute between yourself and the republicans saying that it had flared up with the governor declaring he thinks in the other republican leaders will have to fund education and social services to levels that he finds adequate. republican leaders say they have no plan to bend to the governor's wishes. tell us about this fight that has been going on reported in the associated press the a bloomberg -- via bloomberg.com

fight thatdo not sel much. we actually have money to argue about. the rest of the states have deficits. it is pretty clear in montana that if we do not invest the money from the state to the local school districts that the school district will turn to raising levies which will turn up the property taxes of local property owners to go up. and higher education, if we do not find higher education of the levels i have suggested, the on the other ways to raise tuition like they're doing in every other state in america. it is the middle class that is the strength of this country, i have a master's degree in soil science. neither one of my parents were farmers and did not graduate from high school. i want every family to be able to afford the american dream and

that is higher education which is the best path to a higher- paying job. host: our next call from florida on our line for independents. as in boots.loots guest: hey, cowgirl. caller: we have a small cattle ranch. 40 acres out here is huge. host:-- guest: you can run 25 or 30 cows on that. caller: eye injury during a discussion last night and i was gratified by what you have done that it is working for montana. one of the things i have not heard which is similar to the caller from abilene which is education. how do we extrapolate what you to other states in the nation? i do not remember it was truman

are eisenhower, but one of them said that it is amazing what we can accomplish of we are not so worried about it gets the credit. give us some of your ideas. let us enjoy the success that montana has had and steady when your ideas are. share some of them in terms of applying them to our national situation. i would love to hear some of that. thank you so much. guest: montana is a real estate. we have high schools with only 25 or 30 people in the entire high school with all four grades. how can we have the best biology and chemistry teacher? how can you have someone teaching algebra and trigonometry let alone a mandarin? i have said to our high schools and universities that we need to partner. we are streaming class's from our universities directly to our high schools. we have something called the old credit. in order to graduate from high school have have a certain number of social studies, math, science, and other curriculum.

what we say is that if you take one of your math class is as a college credit that when you graduate from high school you will already have a few college credits and we will give you credit for both high school graduation and for that college. all over montana, these students who are eager to achieve that a higher level are taking university credits already been there are sophomores, juniors, seniors in high school. this is a digital generation. the people my age, we have a tough time turning on the internet, the people who broke with the internet, they do not have any problem at all looking at a screen just as though it was a teacher in the classroom. this digital generation more so than any can learn in a classroom where the teacher is maybe 5,000 miles away. you can have a kid in a little school in the montana studying mandarin or studying civil engineering. that is why montana will get ahead and why we will have the engineers who will change the

world. host: louisville, kentucky, on our line for democrats. caller: i appreciate what you do, governor, and thank you very much. this was a constitutional thing i believe that started and i would like your thoughts on it. guest: montana has something similar to the state bank. for the last three decades, we have been collecting the tax on our significant coal reserves. as people line the colt, a 15% tax is collected and goes into a permanent fund. it is nearly $1 billion and they love it to businesses who want to start in montana. we are not the only money. we partner with private banks. we are the last money in the in the first money out so we can keep moving the money and give businesses starting and growing in montana. we cannot throw that money away.

we are tightfisted. if you do not have a good business plan, you should go somewhere else. host: hollywood, fla., on our line for independents. you're on with montana gov. brian schweitzer. caller: i want to think c-span for all that you are doing. i live here in florida, in hollywood. when the oil was leaking in the gulf coast of florida, our university students were measuring about 1 million barrels per day. if united states on its own oil wells and sold it at international market prices at $90 per barrel, that could help to meet the unquenchable thirst that our government needs in taxes. any other surplus could probably going to education, on turn

health care into a treasure trove, as well as securing social security for many years to come. 1 million barrels per day times $90 per barrel. you do the math. do before the people, by the people to pay off the taxes and possibly our government does not even need to ask an american working person for taxes ever again. host: governor schweitzer? guest: we consume 20 million barrels per day. you talk about 1 million and then we will still imports two- thirds of the oil we consume. it is clear to me that we need all sources of energy. we need wind power, solar power. we need a call from places like montana. each one of these energy

systems as a challenge. wind has a reliability problem. solar, the sun does not shine at night. new clear has a problem with a radiation. oil has a problem of not having enough of it -- a nuclear power has a problem with radiation. we have these energy sources that together we can create energy independence. nick call from detroit and i have the solution for michigan and detroit. here it is. harvard university recently completed a study and they said the wind energy potential of montana alone could produce enough electricity that we could run every light truck and suv as far as america. we are now proposing that olli montana produced electricity because there is wind in the southwest -- midwest, in the southwest. if we converted our fleet to

elector, we would have an energy storage system support in every garage or in front of every office building there would restore electricity in the battery of a car. when you are not driving it, you plug it into the grid. at any minute commute to be selling electricity back into the grid and some other business needs it, you lose it bitter row-- you use it. if there was a disruption, every american would have stored electricity and they could use it for the functioning of their house. this is about creating jobs in america. the entire world was made -- waiting for america. the future will be a different kind of energy, one that is not dependent on oil produced by dictators. host: what you say to those who will talk about how it is not about the production of the energy either by wind, solar, nuclear, or whenever that is

the grade in the united states that is not built to transport this energy from one area where it is produced to other areas where it is needed. it does not matter that montana is the largest wine producer in the country if you cannot get that energy outside of the state of montana then it only serves to benefit one state. guest: it is an energy grid that is balkanized. most of them do not want any electricity coming in and they do not want to send any going out. their business plan is pretty simple. it is like having a big barrel full of fish. you fired into the shotgun and you get a fish. you do not have to change anything. lot of these regulated utilities have not change their business plan or how they move energy in the last 50 years. they will not change until we forced them. we need a national plan that

ties all these grades together and creates a new grid system so that we can move long-term electricity from one part of america to the other. the problems with these alternating current lines is that they are relatively inefficient. these lines would be an interstate highway overlaid across all of the grid in america is that you could very quickly and efficiently deliver electricity from the place for the sun is shining to the car that needs the electricity. that is something that is big enough that we need congress involved in. when the states asked congress to take action, we know it will take a long time. in washington, d.c., they have been confusing motion with action. host: speaking of a fish, our next caller is from truck crete, montana, on our line for democrats. -- troaturt creek.

it is below zero. my horses have icicles off their manes. caller: i would like to know realistic to leave when you think about programs like when authorization -- weatherization being continued for our seniors in montana and people of moderate to low and come. if you think those programs will continue to be sustainable. guest: in montana, as you know, we have a vista volunteers and they are going town by town and are helping people to wh eatherize their homes. they check filters, advice to

decrease energy consumption. she probably knows that i challenged the state of montana to decrease energy consumption by 20% by 2010. behavior. s this the maeke sure you don't have the lights on in the coke machine. it lowers our footprint and decreases the cost of doing business. we sold 20% of the cars in our fleet. the cars we had left are more

energy efficient. we have the highsest standard of 35 mpg. selling the ones that were not efficient. you can save a lot of money and decrease your carbon footprint. help your neighbor is out. if you have someone that is disabled, stop and check on them. make sure they have insulation around their windows. make sure that their door jams are tight. check this filter in their heating and cooling device. you can save 20% just with that. host: you were part of the meeting with the president at the white house after day, correct? tell us what was discussed in the biggest concerns.

what kind of response did you get from the president? guest: the president and the governors were focused on creating jobs and getting the economy going again. we talk about streamlining, regulation, processes so companies can get started. we talk about creating a new energy economy so we can break this addiction to foreign oil. we talked about an education system that is relevant. we talked about creating an economy in the united states that is dependent on technology and manufacturing. i was very heartened. this president is focusing right now on jobs and the economy. it could not come at a better time. host: you said earlier that the governors are like ceo's of 50 different companies and the solution to increase in jobs in montana might not necessarily be the solution to increasing jobs

in ohio, wisconsin, or california. guest: the model that we have in every single state is the same. a feeling that the budget, you will see 85% of the money we spend is on three programs -- educate, medicate, and incarcerate. we need to have good teachers in front of the students. there are a certain number of disabled people and elderly people that need the protection of society as a whole. there are certain number of bad guys that we need to put behind bars to keep our communities safe. every governor is faced with the same three expenses. with the government can help, they can help to streamline regulation. the can be a good partner. sometimes they're not a very good partner. in the case of montana where 30% of the land in montana is owned

by the government, they become our governors in transmission, pipelines,. they are so far away from managing those resources on the ground. they do not listen to us when we manage those resources on the ground. there will always be a pocket -- tug and a pull. host: ft. worth, texas. thank you for rating. -- waiting. caller: i have some relatives in missoula and they say it is beautiful. i know you get a lot of your money from coal and your population is less than 1 million so you probably gain a lot of money from that.

you do not have to spend money on the programs with more populous states. striving to be energy dependent and the u.s. having more oil reserves than the rest of the world combined, the obama administration is saying that they've been lying to get off of energy. we know that we have to invest in different forms of energy because the wells will not be there all the time. we need to get the better technology and we need to use our own oil. if we started this two years ago, i think we would be a lot closer. gas prices could be moving lower. they say they're focusing on

jobs now, but for the last few years they have been pushing the democratic agenda in washington. host: we will leave it there. guest: united states of america is not number one in oil reserves. we have some oil, but we emperor-- import 2/3. we have other energy supplies that are better than any place else. oil > -- oil? yes, we have oil. we cannot keep up with the increasing demand for oil which is why we have to switch to electric cars and natural gas is. we cannot get off of oil tomorrow, but if we start today, there will be millions of jobs.

the sooner we get going on the future, the better. that is why i say in montana that we're going to help produce the energy supplies for the country but we will do it on our own terms. we will not be an energy colony for the rest of the country so that the east and west coast and into montana and do whatever they want to do just to get the energy. if we have our own scientists and engineers to develop the energy supplies we have in montana, we will be proud of what montana looks like 50 years from now. host: madison, wisconsin, on airline for republicans. go ahead. caller: good morning. how are you? guest: he called my office the other day and i didn't take the phone call. caller: as something for the

news of -- i was flipping through the news. it was great to be talking to a governor. how you stay accessible to your people? how do you avoid alienating your voters? that is my question. host: how do you keep your legislators in the state during legislative season? guest: how do i be accessible to the people of montana? they know where i live. 91% of montana knows the name of my dog. i do not spend that much time in the capital. i am on the road. i am poking in and out of businesses and schools. a governor, unlike people in washington, d.c., after have jobs to do which is to run the business of montana. the shareholders are in every town across montana. the best ideas are from the people of montana. the economy was ticking along

and the rest of the states were spending all of this money that was coming in. i did not think it would stay that good. for every good year in montana, there are two bad. we have had five good years in a row. we should negotiate with their public unions and we did. i sat down with them and i said he now, i do not know how big this recession will be, but we need to cut. i will cut my own salary by $11,000. i will ask them if they book a two years without increasing benefits or salary. we cannot be successful in montana unless you, the people who do the work that matters coming teacher children, take care of our disabled people, make sure bad guys are behind bars, if you did not do that work, we cannot be successful in montana. so, but they agree not to take a salary increase? it was a tough negotiation, but they agreed and i think them for their service.

-- i thank them. we did not demagogued the people who work for montana and tell them that they could not collectively bargain. it is a mistake for a ceo. imagine if you're the president of general motors, general electric, or bowing and after three days on the job, you call a press conference and say, "we are paying our people to much and they are doing too little so i'm going to cut their salary and we may even lay them off." how do suppose the morale would be? if any ceo in america would do that, their stock would drop by 10% the next day. i will not give any governor's advice on how to work with public employees, but in montana we work together with our public employees. we tighten our belts together and that is why montana continues to tinker around. golden -- host: golden,

colorado. caller: what happened to the wilderness bill? montana is my absolute favorite place in the whole united states. my sister lives there. my daughter is going to go to montana state. the reason i love it is because of the environment. i was up there in the 1980's and i saw what burlington northern bid to make sure that build and not go through. i just want to know what happened to it, if you are protecting it, if the timbre is being eliminated, are reselling those jobs to japan? what is happening? guest: in montana, the most valuable land we have will never have a road built on it, will never have a transmission line, and the only way you can get to it is to walk. there's only a few places left

on the planet that are so while than spectacular that they are not and will never be developed. imagine 100500 years from now this entire planet will be developed and we will not even know what the benchmark was. what look like before humans did all the things we do on the land? that is why the spectacular places we have in montana are so cherished and treasure by the people of montana and like people all over the world. right now, there is a discussion about quitting more wilderness in montana. it is a trade-off. the timber industry said if we were going to put land with a permanently than they like to have an opportunity to harvest more timber now. that was a negotiated deal. it is a bold move. the wilderness bills in the past have been about killing fields for montana politicians.

recognizing there are spectacular places in montana that we need to spectacularly put aside but we also need to create jobs today. host: at the conclusion of this program, we will have live coverage of the national governors' association winter meeting opening news conference with the washington governor who is the chair of the national governors association and the governor of nebraska, the vice chair. our next call comes from erie, pa., on our line for republicans. you are on "washington journal." caller: governor schweitzer, it is nice to hear someone talk some sense. i worked on an electric automobile that featured solar panels in the car, roof, and trunk. it was the wind, elector, solar car.

no one was even interested because of the tax money they collect on gasoline. my whole presentation was that you set up energy stations throughout that have wind and solar and then you have an exchange will battery that you can a $5 and exchange the battery and beyond your way. you also have energy units at your house with basically little windmills and solar panels and you would not have to use the great future of the batteries. no one was interested because of the taxes. the governments collect taxes. if you do a electric car, to make up for this tax, you would report each week the amount of miles driven on your electric car and collect back fees for the usage of the roads and highways.

guest: i like the way he talks. a lot of republicans to not talk that way. they say that they do not want electric car business because it sounds like "the jetsons. in montana, we collect a gas tax and then we matchett -- match it with appropriations from congress. if we had electric cars and the of the computer chips on board, you just plug into the grid and it would be keeping tabs on all the miles year drove every day and they would put the money in your utility bill as you buy or sell that electricity. it is about the storage device, the ability of using electricity in your car. it is about using that when the net value is a lot