government would work together with the congress in order to bring this legislation and to fruition. we think it is vitally important in defining our roles and held the federal government can be in a better position to help. back to the point i started with, which is that working together in partnerships are absolutely critical to this, because no one of us, as wonderful and great as the national security agency is, they cannot do it all along. we cannot do it all alone. we have to work with you and the private sector. that is the essence of where we need to be going. thank you very much. >> mr. pelgrin. >> i would like to thank governor bruce and governor o'malley for bringing cybersecurity to the forefront. we also like to thank general

dunbar. we have been partnering with the homeland security advisory council for a number of years now and have adopted the, which i am very appreciative of. it really brings to heart both physical and cyber sides of the house. i am so honored to be on this panel with general alexander and undersecretary beers. the staff is incredible and it is a pleasure to do with them on a daily basis. i have been off caffeine for about six months, and hotel has a starbucks back down in the lobby, so i am back on. i have had three triple vente espressos.

if i am shaking, i am not nervous, it is just the caffeine rushing through my veins. this is the highlight of my career, and based on that i am starting to focus -- what can i say, how can i narrow this down for anyone who has seen my presentations? just like in all my presentation, i decided not to cut out slides, i will just talk faster. lastly, i recognize that i am the last speaker for the end of the day, and i am the only thing between you and going to the white house and meeting it the president and mrs. obama, so that puts a little pressure on me as well. as mentioned, the themes are there. we recognize what those themes

are and i am going to be visualized some of them for you. i believe cybersecurity is everyone's responsibility. the collective view is more important than the singular view, and it really is a call to action. it is about plain speaking. i am a lawyer by education, not a technologist. i have been government for 28 years. i am pleased with all the support from dhs, the white house, and congress, but with that, the reason i was hired originally it was that i was not a technologist, i could understand the technology, but hopefully i could explain it in a way that those that had to make decisions could understand it and move it forward. my belief is that it is about the good, the bad, but most importantly about the truth. we are not going to talk about the truth about what is going on i used to start off and say

there had been a security breach. i got a congratulatory note at home. i clicked onyx, open it up, and my machine crashed -- i clicked on it, and my machine crashed, totally destroying the machine. someday when i get my -- i am going to go down there and break it up. we have to talk about what is going on and talk about the situation. it is important that we have learned lessons from the extraordinary challenges we face after september 11. it impacted us all across the board in different ways so deeply. we all recognize that it was a horrific physical event that occurred, but some of us don't recognize that it was also a

major cyber event that occurred. in new york state, 250 of our circuits were damage that day. mission critical applications went dark. right away use our relationship between the physical and cyber side that up until that point, i had not recognized. i have the slide on the board courtesy of at&t. the red line that you see, all of those calls below the red line went through. anything above that red line did not go through. this was on september 11. what happens during a major event of that nature? we want to call our loved ones and make sure people are safe. we need to communicate and share. this is when the plane's first hit the world trade center. the new see it go right back down to normal. again, a major secondary consequence to a physical event.

next, does anybody know what happened on march 18, 2003? the event was very narrow in its effect. that is the point that everything below that point went through. everything between the two points did not go through. does anyone want to hazard a guess? usually people guessed the black out. how many of you have kids? this is "american idol voting for the very first time. the general metacomet earlier, it doesn't matter to me whether or not is "american idol" teenagers voting or a terrorist trying to do us harm, potentially the consequences are the same to us. fundamentally, what i think happened after 9/11 for me is that we saw a convergence of both the physical and cyber sides.

we all know how to secure physical structures. that has been second major to us forever. we know how to lock the windows, locks the doors, padlocks, security alarms. but how do we secure cyberspace? understanding that cybersecurity issues are daunting, i don't discount the fact that sometimes it is overwhelming. there is a lot on our plate. the thought that stops most of us will we think about cyberspace, when i was working for the state, i went from the chief technology officer and almost the day after i said yes, i said what did i just agreed to? this was so enormous. when you don't know where attacks are coming from, you cannot see and touch it in most situations. the way to do is to take one step at a time.

my measure of success is if i am more secure today than i was yesterday. if i had planned a traditional trajectory, five virginia is down the road i would have been so far off about where we are today -- five or six years down the road, i would have been so far off about where we are today. we are talking about transactional security. how big is the problem? what are the threats we are really seeing? there is a malicious software program that cannot steal your data or corrupt your system. from 2001 to 2009, there was a huge percentage increase of new malware detected. the average survival time of an

unprotected computer, it used to be about 40 minutes. if you plug a computer into the internet, how long would it take before someone could compromise it? it used to be 40 minutes, now is down to mere minutes, maybe even under a minute. we all did computers at holiday seasons are other times. when i first plug one in, it's that i needed 175 mb of patches before ever started doing work on it. most of them are security related. these machines are necessarily -- not necessarily built that day. their bill may be a year before you get them, so you need to make sure they are up-to-date with patches.

if you plug in and went and made a cup of coffee, but the time he got back, someone else was probably controlling your computer. that is how vulnerable they are. these are real attacks that we monitor and track. the different lines are going from the attacker to the attackee. this is the geographical representation of it. each one of those points, each a little red x is not a victim, it is a point on the earth. if i click on one, it will expand and show you the magnitude of what we are seeing on a daily basis. if you type in hacking tool is in to google, you will get 39 million hits back. if you go to some of those sites, some of them are legitimate and some are not.

sometimes you can tell and sometimes you cannot. they like to find you and they know you have been there and they will try to do you harm as well. 39 million in about 4/100ths of a second. a great study survey the states and indicated that approximately 75% of states reported having a breach in the last 12 months. my theory is that the other 25%

had a breach in just did not know it. they need to go back and look at their system. i will only talk about a few of these because of time. the first is data loss. data loss has become rampant. in 2005 the state's restarted -- started reporting public and private sector records. 46 states had reporting requirements. it used to be when there was a day to reach, it was front-page news. -- used to be when there was a data breach, it was front-page news.

some people get compromised more than once. 25% of those records were from government. when i first started the job, protecting data was different. just a few years ago, we had the data behind strong walls. we knew where our data was. it was in data centers and we had very strong protections around that. we had fire walls that protected data from going in are now. what happened is -- going in or out. the way we look at things is totally different. our job now is to protect you wherever you are. it is because of those mobile devices the general talked about. it is not like i am against it.

we have to recognize what we are doing. this is now the new norm of where they is -- aware of data is. by 2013, 1 billion mobile devices will be accessing the internet. what keeps me up at night? many things. we are storing and encrypted sensitive data on these devices and these devices do not lock automatically. i have a very long password. i told them it if you have a strong pass word but you do not have a machine that times out, after so many minutes it doesn't shut down, it will not do you any good if the advice

does not stay on. disposing of broken an old devices -- i had a situation where someone brought me a device that was broken and they said it was no good anymore. even though the screen was cracked and a taxicab ran over it, i turned it on and i could read anything i wanted in the device. knowing how to dispose of devices is absolutely essential. more than 10,000 laptops were reported lost every week at the 10 largest airports, and only 65% of them are reclaimed. outrageous. the other day i heard that someone had left their issues and they wanted them to go back and get them. -- had left their shoes.

did you have a black -- the password on your blackberry? this is the deer in headlights. 100% security is not assured. it is all about layers of security. you want to be able to sit in front of those cameras and be able to say i have done everything in my due diligence to be sure i was secure as could be. this is a thumb drive. this guy is dangerous, don't approach him. this is what we say in the profession, it is a clue, but this is something that when hard drives look like this, you knew when someone was stealing your data. when they look like this, it is very difficult.

we have some dry policies in our company. -- some drive up policies -- thumb drive policies in our company. think about how much data could come out on one little thumb drive. why do hackers attack government? because that is where the date it is. rejigger the data is -- that is where the data is. the government also runs critical infrastructure. hackers do want to come after governments, not just going after private sector. why can we not build a firewall for the human factor?

it is because the evolution has not gone to where we thought it had. insider threat -- could be just a normal user. did the normal in users in your agency or business have access to your network from home? do they have personal, private, and sensitive data on their home pc? did they connect to the internet from non secure access points? do they allow their kids to use the same computer? so often that is the case. if your kids are out there playing games and everything else, the likelihood of that machine being compromised is high. lastly, do you think this is ok? can you do the same thing securely? when you look at this, over 600

million e-mail messages are sent daily that contain confidential information, and they are not included. over 300 passwords were identified in this breach. what are the most common passwords? 123456, i love you. theseif we are using these typef passwords. here is my theory. it has not been proven, but it is my theory. "i am attaching a document. the document is malicious code, and if you open it, it will steal data." people will still click on it.

here is what we have all seen. is your pc virus free? you know how to get out of it as quickly as possible. is your pc virus free? people click on it anyway. my theory is proving itself. in this one particular case, this was a number of years ago, but i think it is important to reference, and i do not do this to criticize any one company or entity, but this individual wiped out the servers, and files were defeated because -- were deleted because his bonus was not as big as he wanted it to be. he got a bonus, but it was not as big. sending emails out.

this is lightning speed. actually, it is laser speed. however, we have to stop and think. we have to take a breath. it is really absolutely essential. and then, we keep the records, but who is watching what is happening at night when you are not in the office? is your machine logged off? what is on your desk? phishing, we all know what that is. malicious activities will ensue after that. enticing or shocking sometimes. there was one that went out and told the recipient that it had pornography on it, and "click on

this link," and it looked so real, i think it had the real telephone number at the bottom of it. people should be smarter. hackers have learned how to spell checker now, so the words are spelled correctly, so they look like they are coming from corporate sources. it is now looking at, and it is not just government but government in particular, they are not going for everybody. this is not a mass email. it is going out to some of the executives within your agency or within your company. the fear is credible. it could be because you're at a certain event, not unlike today, and a note will go out to certain individuals that say, "this is important for you to read before you go to this event."

i am positive that sometimes, i would fall prey to this. this is all about subject relevance. it is now very much targeted on the individual. this is from the fbi. fraudulently from the fbi. toxic chemicals. it was targeted pay-tv -- to the .mil, .gov. but we are going to be using this in my office. it is absolutely right thing to do. there is a risk associated with this. cyber attack are up 70%. do with policies in place -- do it with policies in place. if you do not allow people to do certain things on your network, you should not allow it just

because you are allowing social networking sites. cloud computing, i think that is terrific. we have to move to types of services that are easy, efficient, however, i think it needs to be done wisely, and, again, i am a lawyer by education, and i think this is one area where you want to have the lawyers involved right from the get-go, before you start putting data out on the cloud, what else is in the cloud, and do you have rights to it later on? can you have security to your? -- to your data? so what can we do about it. it gets to that the time to cooperate is now. information sharing must be second nature, and this is the

old model of security. no problem. with the network settings, messed up, yes. no? anyone else knows? no? yes, you are screwed. with the network settings -- were the network settings messed up? and this is my favorite, can you blame somebody else? no, you are screwed. the reason i even news that is because people who really want to do a good job for their bosses, when something is going wrong, they want to clean it up quickly. if operations are going to be impacted, they do not want you to know. they want to make sure that the

checks are cut on time. checks and balances. this must be about sharing information. leadership is key. the president set the transformational moment when he embraced cybersecurity as one of the top priorities of his administration. beers and thery governors. last year, we had all 50 governors signed proclamations or their equivalents. we do this with the national cybersecurity alliance, and i can tell you, it makes a big impact on your staff. partnership is key. partnership starts with all 50 states, local governments, and now, the territories are coming

on board quickly. it is built on the foundation of trust, collaboration, sharing, 50 states, and u.s. territories, and situational awareness, all up to the federal government. the partnership cannot be done alone. it is about the private sector. it is about the governor's association and others, homeland security, working together, and i will stop here. i just want to show you the note operational center. -- the operational center. we are monitoring when they came on board, and we are looking forward to do more. as the undersecretary said, we will have more by march, and lastly, it is all about sharing cyber intel to really make a

difference across the board. with that, i will stop, and i appreciate the opportunity to be there. >> can you go back to the slide that had the number of states? >> sure. state and local governments and one territory. >> and that is what is represented? >> yes, and there are some others that are coming on board. again, it is all about the collective view. what is so important about this is if we were doing this individually, and i can tell you, we have documented proof that what we see in one entity, when we are seeing it across entity lines, a phenomenal situational awareness occurs. information is shared with the multistate members, so we have an incredible group, and the governors should be proud of those who are participating.

they are so dedicated, so passionate. they have incredible expertise, and what we do is we believe we do it multiple times. there is an efficiency here, but more importantly, the collective view is absolutely essential if we're going to protect state and local territory governments. >> what is the cost? >> it is minor. i can talk to you about it. it is about $92,000 a year. >> ok. >> when you talk about what it is that we do, both monitoring and other services. >> general alexander, i have listened to all three of you. i am wondering about our networks in maryland, and you mentioned what we did with our national guard.

does every national guard unit have some cyber capability? in every state, is there some cyber capability in bogar -- in the guard? i do not know that. >> not all of them. they are located predominately in cyber areas, so the northeast, washington, texas. it is only seven at this point, so i offer this as a great way to move forward. the national guard comes from -- also, members from these companies, so they have technical competence in this area that we can we leverage. >> is there a standard to which we want all states -- i mean, is there a standard in terms of cybersecurity that can be widely recognized that can be deployed

and that will work against that standard? are there differences, practices, that you are looking for every state to have? >> i think so. in terms of the standards, here is the way i would look at it. first, it is something the homeland security department and others have to look out and see where the threat is coming, both from hackers, which will has done a great job explaining, and the nation states, that goes beyond, so when you look at what we are going to do, if you can think of it as the imaginary line for defense, and now look at an active defense that now ads in what semantic -- add in what semantic states can do, and

two, we can provide classified signatures and you can secure -- that you can secure, something that the department of homeland security and the defense department are pioneering right now. we have a program to test -- test that. we have to shift to an active defense. one of the key parts is training people to hunt in networks for anomalous activity. normally, they have the capability we do not know about. it is not in your anti-virus. when they get in, somebody notes that. a patch is made.

and then the system is fixed. and then we wait for the next problem to come up. that is the way we have done it, and i think you had a great characterization of it, so i would have, how can we do that better? -- so i would add, how can we do that better? and training our people to those, so the training you bring up is absolutely critical to our future. >> will, did you have an offer that you wanted to make? an open offer to all governors? >> i went by quickly on all of the topics, but i am available if any of the governors want to do a capital level briefing, come to their state, and do a more detailed briefing. so i would be more than happy

to do that. >> rand, from the homeless and securities -- homeland is itities' standpoint, the power grid? >> this is one of those very delicate questions so that you do not insult anybody. did not name and that, but, yes, it is the power grid -- so that you do not insult anybody that you did not name. there is only so much back a generation, power generation, that you can have, -- only so much backup generation, power generation, that you can have, even for emergencies. a virus is just but one example of things we can see or that we

can imagine that would, in effect, affect the electric grid and other control systems for power, for natural resources that are moved around the country using controlled systems, and the backbone of that is electricity, yes. >> and what role did the states play in this? -- do the states play? is this something the governors need to do? to enforce standards? or is this something somebody else is taking care of. >> right now, what we need to focus on, and what i mentioned with respect to legislation, is how do we as a country, recognizing that each of us has a responsibility, but if the system is vulnerable for all of

us as a result of some of us not practicing good computer hygiene, but also, some of it goes beyond what any one individual can do, so in terms of creating the system, we need to have a common understanding of what the standards ought to be, and then we need to have a common program to have both the public and private sector building towards those standards, and it is going to take some time, and it is going to take some money, but what we are hoping to do is that people in government and people in the private sector will come to appreciate that cybersecurity is, in fact, a cost of doing business. for all the innovations we have had through the internet, for all of the innovation that we have been both the public and

private sectors and the value that that provides us, it has also created a level of vulnerability that can come in a worse-case scenario, lead to major damage or even a catastrophic damage to the country because of the vulnerabilities from not practicing, for not building towards good cybersecurity, so the message is it is not an afterthought. it has to be a first thought, or we are not going to stop this problem. >> general alexander? >> yes, i would like to add to what rand has said on this, because i think this is a key point as far as what the states can do. when you look at the networks today, many of them are stand- alone networks, that tie

together two different venues. if you were to ask your cio, like some of our networks in the defense department, mapping out is almost impossible. if you cannot map it out, you cannot see it, i would theorize that you probably cannot protect it, so step one, you got to, with your cio and security officer, you have to come up with a network that meets the standard that rand is talking about, but if i were in your shoes, i would talk about going to a cloud-like support. dish network, but you would own it. i am a avid user of computers. i only use one of those about 10% of the time, which means they are sitting idle with 90%

of the time. with modern servers, you can have many on a server. that service could handle it to london and 40 or more people, at a tremendous savings in a more defensible architecture that could be distributed cloud-lie, -- cloud-like, so this is a great way to step forward that would allow you to bring in many of your disparate databases and structures into a common structure that is indefensible. building that i.t. structure. the first key step. the second is the partnership between federal, state, local. i think that is a huge step forward. we have a responsibility there, the intel department and others,

and together, that teamworker will come. think about estonia in may 2007, georgia 2008. if that were to go against one of our states or one of our banks, we have to work together to stop it. we have to have an architecture. in these fiscally constrained times, you want to do both. a cheaper i.t. architecture that is more secure, and i think we can do that. >> so much of this reminds me of the early on, when we were trying to figure out which way was up and how we can do a better job of securing infrastructure in terms of transportation and other infrastructure that we never had to think about defending before. it is a very similar exercise, is it not? i mean, you have to do your vulnerability assessment. you have to map it, and you have to know if you have taken

precautions or to increase the monitoring, or watching of it, when it is not possible to harden it. it is not a dissimilar thought process, is it? ok. the standards, where is the standards that says, "thou shalt have," you know, "this level in place"? is there something like that? >> it really is a broader based community that needs to work on standards setting. it needs to involve the national security agency, for sure. it needs to involve dhs, which has a much broader capability because it protects both

physical and cyber infrastructure, and then, without making it a regulation, it needs to then hear from the customers about what those standards are, as well, so as we try to define that, we are not coming up with a made in washington, for example, solution that may not fit annapolis or phoenix, so that is an absolutely critical part the we have learned from other efforts in standards. unfortunately, that takes time. fortunately, we have a method for doing that, but we need to move much more quickly in that regard and we have been. >> ok. governor brewer, any final thoughts? >> no, i think you have covered it pretty much, governor. i just want to thank the panel.

>> we have a number of new governors this year. who do recall? i mean, if a governor wants to increase cybersecurity of their networks in their states, are you the best opt for us? >> we act as a team, so absolutely, they can call us. we would be happy to. do it once, many times. there are a lot of standards out there and grade standards, it is just starting. >> they are all different. >> they are more similar than you would think. dhs and others have best practices, as well, so it is really just getting moving and doing it.

>> the executives or the governors, we like to be the second one to do things best, so we actually increase standards, and you have already worked out the are indeed -- the are indeed -- research and development kinks. german, thank you very much for being here. [applause] david is going to give us a brief update on the legislative issues and homeland security. >> governor, i will be very brief. there are only a couple of issues, but they are of great importance to the governors. the first one is in the 100 mhz d-block, that can be used for public safety for a nationwide

network. there is an opportunity to reallocate that spectrum for public safety use, something governors have called on for more than a year. recently, some have introduced plans for the reallocation of the d-block, to ultimately get a national-broad-band setups -- set up. it could very likely move this year. the second issue i wanted to raise is a statute that came into affect many years ago that set national standards for drivers licenses. it has had issues with regards to implementation. may 11, 2011.

this year. one of the issues is that there has to be an electronic verification system in place for states to comply. most do not exist or are not nationally deployed. it means that that line will have to move in order for states to comply. there was legislation last year to try to remove some of the deadlines and make it more regulatory lee mccutchen regulatory -- to make it more regulatorily available. everyone's eyes were on the budget. i just wanted to point out a continuing resolution of the house. it does have an impact on homeland security, specifically with regard to the grant program. we would take a hit of about 12.4% for this year under the continuing resolution for this fiscal year.

in the upcoming fiscal year, the president's budget recommends a little bit more for that program, in addition to the 12.4%. i will leave it there because time is short. >> david, thank you very much. i wanted to mention that this executive committee will be voting on whether or not to continue the special committee. this was a creation that happened two years ago and has done great work. i want to thank the staff and the director of homeland security and public safety division. the nga center deals with challenges we face, and we delivered to the governor's a summary of the core capabilities -- we delivered to the a summary of the core

capabilities. we asked about the core capabilities that they are looking to develop and in some cases korea for the first time in their state, in this world of asymmetrical threats that we face -- and in some cases create for the first time. it was thought to be a great publication when you're out there, and it is an excellent source for all governors -- when we were out there, and it is an excellent source. april, the nga center is hosting a meeting focusing on issues to counter-terrorism as well as other areas, cyber. these are just a few of the services available through the nga center, and when to

encourage the governors to take advantage -- and i want to encourage the governors to take advantage. i think we are now moving to the consideration of our policy. we will consider amendments to three existing policy provisions. they have been distributed. as a reminder, the policy process began this fall. there is the special committee. they negotiated those amendments. we never do anything in the nga without exhaustive conversations and negotiations. there will be an opportunity to do that in the spring. if the governors to take no action at all, the policies would sunset. i ask is that there is a motion -- i asked if there is a motion

could >> governor o'malley, -- i ask if there is a motion? >> governor o'malley, i move. >> a second. i want to thank you all. this concludes our procedures. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

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>> they also heard from an education secretary arne duncan and education leaders about providing education per graham's to prepare workers for competing

in a global market. this is one hour and 25 minutes. >> i want to thank everyone for

joining us this afternoon. the vice chair person cannot be here this afternoon. we appreciate the willingness to step in and work with us today. gov. mcdonnell is completing his legislative session. the chance to be there to end the session -- we are somewhat jealous. first a bit of housekeeping. the proceedings of this committee meetings are open to the press and the meeting attendees. as consideration, please turn down your cell phones. we are starting on c-span at this moment. please do what you need to do for your c-span appearances.

let me make a few introductions. of what to think this person for assisting us in making powerful changes in the education system. we had some panelists form. after they speak, and you can ask them questions. we ask the panelists to limit their remarks to 7 minutes each. they have come from a great distance to be here. listen to what they have to say to us. we will be glad to have a solid discussion this afternoon. following that, the committee will vote on their policy. we have some tweaks to some policy that we have been looking through.

we look forward to getting started to debate discussions. without further ado, let's get started. everybody knows that times are tough in our states. we all have challenges. public education can be a way to solve problems. public education at all levels have been affected, but not our desire to make it better and to make sure that every family that send their kids to school knows that they have an opportunity to work hard, played by the rules, and make a difference to move our economy forward. additionally, with an act pending in congress, we know what it will require to continue to have a robust voice in this partnership between the federal in the state. we have high standards and expectations for our young people. we have high expectations for our teachers, principals, and

educators. we look forward to working to make that happen. we must make an investment in education today. each and every day, kids go to school, and it is our responsibility to make sure they have a great opportunity. we want to get more people to dedicate their lives to public education and to improve it. .

>> ladies and gentlemen, let me welcome you to the united states institute of peace. this might be the last event that the united states institute peace does in this building. we will be moving sometime next month if everything goes -- if everhing goes well, which i expect it will. we are very pleased this morning to welcome the latest in a series of afghan officials who have agreed to come speak to you here at the institute of peace. you may remember that president karzai was year less than a year ago.

we are very pleased we have got this arrangement with the ministries and officials in afghanistan. before i introduce the panel, let me welcome afghanian'snew ambassador to the united states. we are very pleased to have you he. ambassador, we hope he will be here regularly or at our new facility. thank you peery much for being here. and ambassador tony wayne is also here. welcome. very good to have you. we also have added mnister at the national defense university. we are very pleased this morning to have two very distinguished ministers, very senior ministers, very experienced ministers from afghanistan. mr. wardak of defense has had experience which he can describe and i'm sure you have questions for him back to the time when he was fighting the soviets.

he remembers many of the battles, many of the locations that took place then and those that terrain and that battle. we were talking last night. he's also spend some time in the united states doing some infantry training. he has been an airborne ranger having been trained at fort benning. so we are very pleased that mr. wardak is here. he's joined by the minister of interior, the minister which as people kow has the police under his command, and this is a challenge he has taken on with enthusiasm and to great reviews but his colleagues as well as the mentors that are in

afghanistan from the coalition forces. finally, we have retired general varno who spent time with the u.s. forces, and i see that he was succeeded by several people now in putting general petraeus and so they were all filling his shoes and joe barno is now of course with the center for new american security, and we are very pleased to have general barno here. what we hope to do is to invite the minister wardak to make some comments this morning followed by a minister mohammadi followed by general barno. we hope he will be able to get your questions in. we have people in another room right down the hall who may also have questions so if you see

people handing me a little cards i will be relating those questions in the overflow room. this is a time for afghanistan and the coalition forces supporting the afghan forces. we are looking at a transition. we are lookng at a transition now over four years rather than a shorter transition people have been concerned about earlier. so a four year transition during which time the forces of the army and the police led by the two ministers here will take increasing responsibility for security in afghanistan. this is both for the ministers and the forces that the command d for myself as it prepares to turn over the profits district by district responsibility for the security and these areas. so, this is a great time for us and we are pleased to able to host the two ministers and i'd like to invite minister wardak

to make informal remarks. we talked last night and he said heoesn't want to make a formal speech. i said please don't make a formal speech, but your comments and thoughts as you are looking for work in 2014. minister wardak. would you like to speak from here? debate >> good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. it has been a privilege to participate in this panel that some of our dearest friends and to others such prominent audience in this prestigious instition. i would like to begin fir once again i need to express profound gratitude and the deepest appreciation of the afghan government, the afghan people for all of the help, assistance and cooperation and the most

genuine support which has been provided by u.s. particularly, with nato and the nato partners to my wartorn country. they are definitely playing a vital role in shaping the destiny of my devastated nation. i'm sure you are aware that danger which we are encountering recognize no geographic boundaries accept the human civilization and it cannot be overcome a single nation regardless of however far. so therefore it is needed strategic global response and a coordinated concerd effort by the community of nations if we are going to defend of your

collective freedom otherwise no place will be safe whether it is located on the surface of this plan -- plan planet. we are at a juncture and the media is portraying a picture that has been the longest war and in nine years we have not made ay progress. much progress is made. i think the answers are really simple. i think we have underestimated the enormity of the rebuilding a nation institution and its infrastructure which have gone through three decades of war and

destruction. also, we underestimated the threat that the afghan national securi forces 70,000 army and 60,000 police were far below based on the task on any other historic example. the insfficiency of the forces have much negative impact on conducting the proper counrinsurgency operation. relaunching too much on counterterrorism operation and also air strikes have alienated some of the population.

and also afghanistan was an economy of goods for many in 2007 and 2008 seeing some effort to build a credible afghan security force. and tonight we also have to admit there has been under performance and also the implementation of the aids programs with the overhead charges that have trained a lot of those forces and also weakened the afghan institutions so we have come a long way on the difficult journey but the announcement of the strategy we had was clear, and it wasn't a

strategy that was focused on the antiterror but on a comprehensive the bitter campaign which has the element to defeat the ideogy and give us a lasting peace, and it had all elements of success which we have long since 2002. based on that strategy now our mission is unequivocal and clear for the elfgin population. we've all agreed explicitly that it is unacceptable, and all efforts have to . legitimacy.

based on that to ensure we have all agreed to the growth of the nash gandy beagle afghan national security forces and improved government rule of law in the economic diplomat and strengthen our partnership with forces come afghan with operations including the transfer operation transfer of detention and also produce full support dhaka can lead peace and reconciliation and strive to achieve regional cooperation,

and finally, to optime all elements of the afghan national. all these years i think you've been saying to secure afghanistan is to enable the young afghans themselves. poor it means to be able to defend the nation independently having isaf, nato and the united states is a strategic partner in support. and we do believe the afghan solution is cost effective and less complex and it will save lives for our friends.

now briefly i will touch the security situation. as you are all aware the enemy attacks have increased so the interest exclusive devices and respond to the number of casualties that have risen also. but some of it is because isaf and the afghan national security forces were operating for the first time in some areas which the of never won before coming in the meantime there was a high temperature operation for to isaf and afghan national security forces. so with that, i thinkthe

violence had peaked during the the election, but after that with higher operation in isaf we were able to gain the initiative , and we were able to do that by conducting a proper counterinsurgency operation for the first time in afghanistan. the results werequite obvious in helmand and also in kandahar. we were able to establish control and some of the most difficult parts of the enemy territory, and the result is now the people are not oppressed any

more. the the right to choose what they are exercising and the perception of security in the government has improved immensely. and just to mention i think there are really good indications that there is a change in the tie on our table. if the key to success in operation is going to be support of the people, then in that case i think we are getting that support. and that can be illustrated that the number of ied which we help the people have been between 70 to 80% in the last two or five months it has been that high and

has been identified with the help if you compare to those of nine it was 163 and now for the last three months of 2010 it was er a thousand. and the reason this has gone much higher. what we've done during these operations we havefocused conventional forces on protecting the population and directed our special operations forces to keep the enemy off balance and that is the result to have statistics the enemy has suffered and the fighters and

taliban have been the case is that in three times the government appointed eliminated captured or killed so there is provement which is concerned and we are hopeful that we have the capability enough that though i think some of those are predicting that the coming year will be bloody and difficult but i hope that will not be the case in the enemy is using the fighter now and the suicide attacks will taken place recently. i think most of it is the firefighters and also that shows some sort of desperation that in actual combat operation they have lost their confidence to

have the news making sensational attacks the multiple suicide as combined with commanders. if i go to the afghan national army, the afghan army continues to be a success story. i'm not saying it's perfect. there is a lot of improvement. it's difficult to raise an army and fight at the same time, but it is actually and a symbol of reform and it is the new afghanistan illustrating a hour transformation toa nation which we would like to take once again in its own hand. we have with exhilarated growth, which was approved weaver

worried that the quality of the force might be in danger, but fortunately that has not happened. the quality has improved more than 50% in the quality of the first based on all the statistics which are available and the result is more focused on the lesson learned partnering in isaf has enabled tosleep and learn and fight together so it has been a 24 our constant training process and in the meantime the trainees from one have improved from one to 29. so that question of quality we doope in the future we will be

able to make further improvements the other issue accelerated growth have enabled us to about number our forces in a major operation like in kandahar i think it was 60 to 40% of the isaf forces. and now i would like to say that how i see the future and what is ahead how we will go and proceed. so i think that our journey to the line and professionalism will continue but even bigger. so we will also improve performance through accountability and reinforcing our codes of conduct. with improved attention i think

we will reach the 378,000 figure ahead of schedule, ahead of october, 2012. we will also have positive improvement to self-sufficiency in combat, supporting combat service support units in our broad institution building. we will strive to lead more operations and also we will increase the proportion of the off the afghan national security forces in some of the future operations. we will try to change the winning of the war meant of perception which is - all along.

and as we become more comfortable to defend our territory we do hope the neighboring how worse will come to the conusion and accept reality and then we will be able to establish a mutually beneficial relations which we have sought since 2002. with the help of friends and allies we will vigorously address the question of centuries. and we wilapply all the lessons learned and the protection of the population and ensuring their articipation, participation and government and rule of law security and economic development.

and based on our mutually agreed plan, i think we wll commence transition which is of significance to the afghans and also to the international community. transition is the result of the already jointly agreed plan of the afghan ownership and afghan leadership. so all our fourth generation attempt operations will be conducted to work transition. and we have already agreed that it will be a process.

it will not be just an event. it will also not be touched from threalities on the ground. it will be alsonot and dictum -- vict and held hostage to the agenda for withdraw the commitment of the international community in the longer term. so we have all agreed that it will be meaningful, it will be conditions based, and eight

should become irreversible. so based on that, we are totally dedicated to the ways in which articulated by the president in his inaugural speech to take the lead of operations and the whole physical security responsibility in five years so we will not spare in the efforts of sacrifices to achieve that goal. it is in a prayer ready. it will be a priority for us. what security will be playing a major role in the process of the transition. and for that, i think we have to remind ourselves something that so far what we have built up in the national army it has been

totally centric it is a slight centric good for the counterinsurgency operation. and so for the transition to be irreversible, there is the requiremt that had to gradually get all that we are now relying on isaf which they are now providing i hope these enablers will be providing as time passes and once this transition store to the full role of the isaf forces will come to supporting growth and that will also allow the gradual pulling out of the isaf forces.

so for that, the forces which are required for tifin to italy analyzed by the institutions u.s. analysis center i think that should have been agreed. people have the question of sustainability, but i think what we're doing today in afghanistan the international community is spending 100 billion for sure for the u.s., and 20 or 30 million for the rest of the community that the money the afghan national security forces could be sustained for the year. so that is cost-effective. and the enablers are already

needed. we will ne improvement in our firepower, our productive mobility but integrated firepower, and then some power ied capability, and most of it will depend on air transportation capability, the support of troops, ground troop by air and also in the aspects of the isaf forces fighting we should have the capability also to secure our airspace. in the meantime, i think that the cooperation would play a very decisive role, as far as all our joint efforts are concerned and even on afghanistan are closely linked

to the development particularly in the region. so in most cases the country where the terrorists or traffickers have located i think they can act better, can be law enforcement, intelligence operation or it can be a military operation or developing aneducational system to counter the audiology of extremists. we do see a better prospect for coordination as a result of the two, three recent try apartheid's and other meetings with our neighbor and we hope since we now should be absolutely sure that we have a common enemy, a common threat so the cooperation, which between

the two countries should be reality and also inevitable. ..

rather in a greater context of regional and global securit we do hope that afghanistan approximatety and role in e region and there's a role between southeast asia and its projected mineral resources should be taken into account. it should be dealt with as relevant and rely on partner in the future for peace keeng operations and also relations of mutual interest. just one last comment, i think, and then i wi stop.

i think after many years of struggle, our goals or insight, what matter is we are well -- the cards have been high and the stakes even higher. the good news is that the hope has been replaced by progress though it has been deadly doug. -- bought. the debt of gratitude we can never be able to pay. we pay tribute to all those who

have given the ultimate price for the struggle of stability and prosperity of afghanistan. no one knows more than our afghans the pain of losing a loved one. we pray for the families of the fallen and owl -- all the wounded. now, i would like to say that no one shall doubt our firm determination, the afghan determination, to succeed and also you should be assured that we really don't want to be burden on the international community or on the u.s. more than it requires. we are quite confident that you will stay with us in this last part of our journey which the

final destination is now weatherable, and i'm sure that we will prevail because of our causes that are just and our deavor is a noble one. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. [inaudible conversations] >> william -- >> can't hea you.

>> translator: in the name of god, most gracious and merciful. we gather today, ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon, and thank you all for being here. i would like to express my gratitude to all of you for your presence here in the united states institute for peace. i uld like to also express my gratitude to the excellency, minister of defense general wardif talkingabout the affairs, and i'd like to concentrate my talks with you on the afghan national police that

i've been heading for the last seven months for minister of interior. i am very grateful to have had the occasion to be here in washington and be here with you today. it has also been an occasion to have fundamental talks and conversations with our friends and ally here in washington, d. about the strategy for afghanistan and its future stability. most of all, i would like to express my gratitude to the government of the united states, to the pele of the united states, and to the department of defense.

i am well aware that the cost of the united states has been quite hi, and it has cost the lives of many of your young men and women who have selfless sacrificed their lives. you remain committed to this assistance. the debt of gratitude we owe to your country can cannot be repaid, but it can earn the infinite gratitude and appreciation of the afghan nation. i serve as chief of general minister in afghanistan. i came to the interior at a time bh the afghan national police was facing severe challenges,

but during the eight months, also were results of growth, collaboration with my colleagues in the minister of interior as well as the support of the international community, weave made tangible progress. training and education has been the core at our list of priorities and during the last eight months, the capacity of our training centers has in connection withed from 950 -- increased from 9500 to over 12,000. one the main challenges also in the afghan national police has been the undereducation or illiteracy rate among peacemakers, as i'm here speaking with you, more than 20,000 officers are enrolled and receiving training and education

in literacy courses and education and other courses. leadership development has been our second highest priority. having committed professional leadership -- without having committed professional leadership, l of our efforts would be fruitless. on this path and towards this objective, over 66 general officers in over 2,000 police officers have been removed from their position due to erroneous conduct, and this will continue this process started from the top, and it will continue to the lower ranks. corruption is another high priority that we're focused upon during the last eight to nine months. we have taken many tangible and fundamental steps and actions, and we have made significant

changes in the leadership structure, the hiring and retention based on proliferation, accountability, transparency in contracting, and also filtering out those who have potential ethically questionable backgrounds. we have improved the criminal investigative division as well as the prosecution of those who were involved in corruption at any level. in orde to increase the transparency and accountability, new commanding officers have been sent to all of the zones and provinces of the nation in order to vividly and tangibly verify the possibilities and the equipment and the supplies that each unit has available and with

which they operate. in order to increase the capability of a system that would hold people accountable for their actions within the police structure, during the last eight months, i personally visited 28 of our 34 provinces and permly verify -- personally verified the capability gaps and attempting seriously to decrease those capability gaps. the level of attrition has increased on a daily basis. even though we have taken many fundamental steps, we still have a long path ahead of us and much hard work remains to be done. the security situation. in results of joint nato and

afghan security forces operations, particularly in the north and south, the security situation has improved vastly. the losses suffered by the enemy in result of having lost high ranking and mid-ranking commanders as well as notorious drug dealers have put a severe blow to the enemy. areas and provinces that were traditional safe havens for the enemy have been cleared of their presence. joint and nighttime operation between special operation and afghan security forces have hunted taliban leaders successfully as well as terrorist organization leaders and notorious drug dealers. this goes to show that our mual strategy, that our mtual

strategy is our fight against this enemy has been correct and we have been on a road towards mutual success. the secret to our recent successes has been earning the trust of our nation, of our people. we now keep our presence in the areas that from which we drive out of enemy, maintain security, and we bring fundamental help to improve the daily lives of the people of the local pop populous. the development of the police force. given the level of security threats, the area the nation ties, and the level of the current threat, we have established the level of 170,000

for the personnel of the afghan national police forces in order to be able to bring widespread security throughout the nation. on this path, i would like to express my gratitude to the international community, in particular to the united states for having brought us vital assistance in the development and expansion of the afghan national police. the development of the afghan national police has been done with a great deal of concentration with the fact it is primarily a law enforcement agency. one of the priorityies -- one of the priorities of the afghan national police during expansion and development has been to separate the authority and responsibility between what is the afghan national police's and

what falls on the shoulders of the afghan national army. the transfer of responsibility, the transition. transition entered a sensitive phase, and it requires a logical and serious way of dealing with this phase as the afghan national police will shoulder the bulk of this burden because maintaining internal and domestic security is the primary role of the police. during the transfer, we must pay particular attention to the following points. increasing the capacity of the afghan security forces vis-a-vis their weaknesses as well as their equipment.

increasing the -- i apologize, decreasing their capability gaps by providing better equipment. the transfer must be done according to the realities of afghanistan as they are today. it must not be a political decision. we must ensure that the transition is indeed irreversible. it must ensure -- it must bring particular focus on the destruction of the safe havens in training camps of the enemy and the terrorist on the other side of our border. the sincere collaboration of our nation -- of our neighboring nations will be a key component

for this success. having said all of this and bringing particular attention and focus on the points that i just shared with you all will pay the road to success in this transition. distinguished friends, we do believe that in our mutual fight against terrorism and the taliban ensuring the stability and security with the objective of final victory, the role of the police has been a vital one, and development of the security forces without particular focus on the development of the afghan national police will not be realistic. therefore, particular attention to the devopment of the police within the framework of their

daily primary responsibilities must be a primary focus from now until 2014. recently, in representing the government, the nations, the people, and the police of afghanistan, i would like to ain reiterate my gratitude for all of your country's assistance and sacrifices, and i do hpe this state of assistance in training and developing our capabilities will continue during ts upcoming phase. god bless you all. [applause] >> thank you minister mohammadi. >> i know the audience is really here ask questions of our two distinguished guests --

>> three. >> not including this one of course, and i'll be brief in my remarks here this morning. i'd be remiss if i didn't point out a late aifl, deputy secretary of defense who works the defense department's policy for afghanistan and pakistan and central asia and to my knowledge may be the most senior u.s. government officia who's been working nonstop on thi region devotedly since at least 2002 when i met him without any breaks, and h probably has a deeper knowledge of that in this room of people who are not afghans. it's great, senior david, and i hope we get some questions from you, and if not, i'm sure you will when we adjourn. i just came ba from a trip i pakistan in late january. that was intrigui in light of conversation we've had so far this afterno. i expect to get out to

afghanistan a little later this year and tromp around on the ground there a little bit. as bill noted, i'm a senior fellow at the center for new american security, and we just published a report that a coauthored called reasonable transition that tells what the five-plus years should look like inafghanistan. i'll draw on the research and the writing on that in light of the remarks of the two ministers here thi afternoon. i clearly, if you're not aware, i'm not part of the u.s. government, and what i'm giving you is not the usip position. it's informed by having a deep family commitment in the afghanistan enterise, not only spending time there myself, but two sons who are army captains, one already sent a year out

there as a scout helicopter pilot, and another is leang in april in a military brigade. i get feedback whether i like it or not as to what's working in the captain level and i find that to be informative. i had the opportunity to listen to a former senior official of the afghan government who was coming through town talking to various groups, and at the end of his heckture, he -- lecture, he concluded by saying 30,000 taliban are not going to dictate the future for 30 million afghans. i raised my hand an say yes they are. 30,000 taliban have every prospect to takeover, unless the 3 million take prospect to war against the 30,000. clearly, this has been the tremendous extent to which the afghan national army which is

growing from a very tiny force when i was there of under 15,000, and the afghan national police have grown and developed and gotten into this fight in the last several years. that's a huge change that has gone somewhat unremarked here in the united states, and it's going to be more important than simply the status of where we are there today. it's going to be the future of the conflict in afghanistan. two years from now, three years from now, four years from now, this afghan national security force will be taking the fight to the eemy enabled by u.s. advisers and u.s.apability, but the large contingents of americans and nato forces that today are fighting that population center counterinsurgency campaign will be replaced by this growing number of afghan solders and -- soldiers and police, and they

won't be standing out there alone like in the past, but advised and mentored bynato forces and american forces, and that in many ways is their key to success. in the paper we wrote in december, we postulated a long term, post-2014 footprint with the united states and afghanistan along with selected alies with 25,000-35,000 troops focused on two primary missions. one, continue to put relentless pressure on al-qaeda and terrorists that can threaten the united states and the region, and secondly to advise, assist, and mentor the afghan fors to counter the battle against the taliba and their movement. that's an extremely long term dimension. my trip to pakistan was very

notable in connection with this dynamic in that for the first time i found the pakistanis beginning to believe that the u.s. is staying and not going, that the u.s. has now committed to having a long term engagement and most likely some type of long term presence in this region. these forces that can continue to enable and to advise and mentor the afghan security forces are a part of that commitment. clearly some ct, counterterrorist is part of that too. this has the potential to be a specific game changer in the calculus in this part of the world which for many years, many recent years, has been dominated by the question what will our policy look like? what will this approach for us as pakistanis, afghans, as the taliban even, what will this look like the day after the americans are gone. if now the calculus begins to

shift to how does this position, our interest for the day that the americans are staying for the upcoming years we're we ha to interact with the americans, that's a different calculus. our longerm commitment to afghanistan going back to something minister wardak said is saying something about the region and not ju afghanistan, and our presence there perhaps beyond 2014 with a modest sized force, and yet that has to be decided by the u.s. the afghans, but i think that the confidence in the u.s. staying power is a strategic multiplier for us. where that confidence exists and where we can grow and nurture there, where we can convince the friend in e region that that's rt of the plan to stay engaged, then we have a strategic leg up on the adversaries. where we continue to erode or contributebeliefs that we are looking to move for the exits and looking to the view in many

of tt world, abandon that role. i look forward to that and entertaining a few of your questions. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you to all three. excellent presentations to get us started. the time is it's time for you to ask questions of a of the three. if i can get you to raise your hand when ryan comes from the mic, we can start here with the person here and please stand, state your name and quick question for them. >> yeah, sure. i'm jessica stone, a correspondent with cc english television. my question is for the minister of interior about the dangers of infiltration. we saw recent reporting that there's a new plan to be unvailed next month to prevent that. i'd like to hear more about that

and specific experience in afghanistan reporting on this issue, and it's only gotten worse over time. >> thank you. minister? >> translator: as you mentioned, one the enduring tactics remains to infill rate the ana and the security forc as a whole. unfortunately, as i'm sure painfully aware as we are, they have succeeded on these objectives many times.

>> translator: i also want to share with you that given the bitter experiences of the past, we have done our utmost to put those lessons learned to good use and proper use, so we are no longer accepting within our ranks those people whose identity is somewhat foggy or not completely mental anguished or whose background may even be slightly yesble. indeed, that is decreasing the dangers of infiltration.

>> bob in the back. >> i'm bob, security director of usip. i have a question for the minister of interior. there are two new entities that are responsible of your ministry, one is the afghan local police and the other is the afghan protection force. can you give us a status report on the forces and answer the question raised as to whether or not these new forces are a distraction from the main work which is to focus on the afghan police. >> sorry, can you repeat that last part? i wasn't able to keep up. >> whether or not creating two new forces at the time you're working so hard on with the national afghan police is a

distractions? >> translator: i do believe that the creation of the afghan local police over the short term is much needed ingredient towards achieving the objective of security across the region in afghanistan. . .

[speaking native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: over 52 companes have been -- 52 security companies or institutions so to speak, have been let go of. and all of their responsibility we are committed to executing thewill of our president, which is to bring and encompass allof

the responsibility under he umbrella of the administration of the interior. we are working hard on executing the wishes of our president, and we are studying the best mechanism in which to do that. we have worked days and hours on end with his excellence excelled ambassador wayne. [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: we are also certain that the temporary temp- the creation and the temporary use of the afghan local police, as well as the appf, which brings all of the responsibilities of those parallel entities under the ministry of interior will be a

key ingredient towards achieving success of maintaining security in afghanistan. >> yes, ma'am. all the way in the back. coming. >> i'm from voice of america. i work for a service that broadcasts in afghanistan. my question is for mr. wardak, withdrawal of -- excuse me withdrawal of u.s. forces after 2014 is the biggest concern of afghan people because in most areas there's no security or security is so bad. is there any guarantee that after the foreign forces withdrawal, afghanistan will not be the safe haven of militants again? >> actually, i think -- i have already explained that there's

drawdown of information forces will be very gradual. and it will happen as the way they have -- i wll quote yu the exact sentence that iaf will pin out as the afghan capacity increases and the threat level diminishes. so with that i think in the future, three or four years, i think there will be considerable progress and the capability and capacity of the afghan national security forces. but moreover what is really important that because of our location and dangerous and volatile neighborhood, we are all seeking that afghanistan should be never allowed to

become a safe haven to the terrorists again. and i think intrnational communities are committed for that. th's why we are already discussing the nature of our security relations with the international community and particularly the u.s. and i think general barlow has already explained, so i think we should not be worried that something like after 1989 and '90s will happen again in afghanistan. >> mr. ardak, let me follow that up. >> please. >> on a question from the other room as i mentioned. and they have sent -- it's a related question. it says -- this is from omar allebundy, the "u.s. times," and "washington post" says they will

begin withdrawing from he bush she valley. do you think it will encourage tribes to seek a safe haven? >> i think i w the one that was interviewed by the "washingtonpost," and actually, as we mentioned earlier, that are realignment of the u.s. forces based on this strategy of taxing the population is taking place all over. but as far as the kunar and providence is concerned, it is one the most difficult area in afghanistan. it is difficult. the area is not highly populated, but it's on root to three or four other valleys which are directly having access

on the road to jalalabad from kunar. iried it myself. to cut it off in the old days. so it -- kunar providence has most important strategic significance than most of the providences in afghanistan. that is why the afghan jihads have initiated from kunar. before also, there were some -- against the government from the same providence because of the nature of the terrain. and then it's immediate proximity and accessibility to the other side of the boulder make it even more significant. so we have to make all of the proper arrangement for the afghan national security forces

to be able to hold on to the pech valley in absence. i think the capability to resupply a unit by ground is not there, by air is not there. so we will still rely on special arrangement to be made with isaf for resupply, for air support, and fire support. if it was required. it will have a political implication also. if the pech valley results in the fall of the district, then i think it will have a lot of psychological impact and all is such the districtsre falling. and moreover, whatever the importance that has been talk about insurgents oming from

pakistan. and going back and forth. we have this discussed with other pakistani neighbors which they are claimed that. so giving them this opportunity to come and have a safe haven essentially is what matters on e question of -- i mean this realignment of forces. so i will say in addition to it's military significance, and the nature of the terrain, there are other political and psychological imperatives which should make usto make the proper arrangement to hol on to the area. either by afghan forces with the help of isaf, or still have the isaf forces as they were there

for the last six, seven years. >> thank you. joe barno, not speaking from isaf, but you have faced the same questionbout the cases of forces. any thoughts on the pech valley decision? >> we talked about this a bit before we came in the afternoon. i think the coalition, isaf is going to have to ake difficult tradeoffs between where it can get the most affect out of the sources available. even with the surge that's brought 30,000 additional troops in this year, how they have been distributed, where the threat is right now i think is causing isaf headquarters to have o reassess a bit in terms of getting the best bang for the route there. today in the pech you have small outpost that are remote and difficult to resupply. they are under a lot of pressure from the enem and they are not able to aggressively, and in

many cases get outside of the fence line to take the war forward. i think my assessment from the distance is that isaf has looked at positioning those forces elsewhere and controling the terrain in a different way. that would could be in concert h afghan security forces. this is a change. and it's going to be, i think more common as begin to go through this transition starting later in the year. >> thank you. this is for radio of liberty. the concerns about pakstan in iran still remain in its place. because it is proved and confirmed by u.s. officials as well that taliban sanctuaries are in pakistan. and it's active inside pakistan,

and even the recent u.s. reports say that he was treated in th hospital by isi. according to these cocerns, what do you think -- what should be -- what's the way how to deal with pakistan? and i want to hear o the same answer, and i want to hav the same question from general barno asell. so what should be? how is the way to deal with pakistan in such condition? thank yo. >> this question on sanctuaries. probably all three of you will have observations on this. general wardak, would you like to begin? >> sure. i think -- there are some facts about pakistan that have been a lot of attempted by the international comunity, the afghan government, and also the recentestablishing the peace. i mean to improve the situation

and to get more cooperation from the pakistani side. and as i mentioned and i think geneal barno also mentioned, that after all of these years, i think there are signs of improvement that we will have some cooperation tat have been also recently some arrangement in the boulders tha hile there is an operation taking place on any side of the border, the other side will have to cooperate or making a blocking position or something like that. also, based on our experiences in the tribe par tide, and other engagements that we have, we think the situation have developed in pakistan in such a way that it might compel them to

increase and enhance their cooperation with international community and also with afghan governments so he prospects of looking brighter. but still we have to work harder on the issue. and i think the entire international community is working on the subject as well as the afghan people and the afghan governmnt. >> mr. mohammadi, you heard you in a conversation, when you are fighting the soviets, you used pakistani sanctuaries. so you know about the use of sanctuaries, as the taliban are now using them.

[speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: i am sure that you do remember during the conversation that we previously had, i also pointed in no uncertain terms in order for this transition to go from this initial phase towards a successful conclusion in continuity what comes after, we do not only need and necessitate increase in the capabilities of our security and armed forces, but one of the keys is also the sincere and and -- sine

and honest collaboration of our neighbors. [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: yes, and also, indeeding i did point out that

during our use, his excellency and myself fought. during the years, i also said we used to take refugee in pakistan, launch attacks, and take refugee in pakistan again. at that time, the focus of the world was in backing our movement and our fight for freedom. this is why because we had refuge in pakistan and because there was a concerd worldwide effort, we were able to defeat one the two super powers of the world. and the same thing that i say to you is valid today. until the pakistan -- e taliban and al qaeda terrorists are not purged from their safe havens, it will be extremely difficult if not impossible for the world community to ultimately and decisively bring them to their knees. >> general barno?

>> i think i'll give a different perspective. based on my recent vision. i've been to pakistan 12 or 14 times. this was the longest visit. i was there for a week. and i had access to senior people in the military and civil service and other elements of the government, intelligence agencies, academic students, governors, so i had a fairly wide ct of people that i talked to. i'm also very sensitive to hearing talking points. and this is the first visit outf 12 or more i didn't hear the same script. i was having unique conversations. one of my majr takeaways from the trip, if i can aggregate perceptions is the pakistanis want to see the conflict in afghanistan settled, concluded, brought to an end. it was described to me by several people that the worse-case outcome -- take this

for what it is -- the worse-case outcome for pakistan today is a taliban victory. the second worse case would be pakistan having to deal with the civil war in the aftermath of a very rapid u.s. withdrawal. so they are very concerned about the impact of the war next door. so you might ask why is it that paktan has by many descriptions, perhaps most, had a hedging strategy in afghanistan over the last several years that many commentators have argued provide sanctuary for the taliban, provide resource, and perhaps even direction in the eyes of some. i think that has everything to do about their confidence in what the future is going to look like. and i believe their hedging strategy was based upon ensures that they were not in a position of grave disadvantage after the united states left the region again. the u.s. s we all kow, pulled up block, stock, and barrel after the defeat of the soviets. the pakistanis are incredibly

aware of that, and expect to see that again. they are now beginning to believe that may not be true. that's beginning to, i think, change their game plan as far as hedging through the taliban. you know, we are not very far down that road. but if we can convince the pakistan that we, in fact, are staying in the region, as opposed to leaving, i think there's opening there for their strategy, their hedging strategy to change and for them to put their chips on a different part of the table. we are only beginning to do that though. >> sir? >> okay. here's a mike. there you go. >> for the ministers, i'd like to follow that up. both of you have stated it's essential that the sanctuaries close. what is the plan if the pakistanis are unwilling or perhaps unable to close the sanctuaries? what do we do then?

>> actually, we -- i think we have not discussed herethat we have launched the kind of effort in peace and reconciliation. i think that is a great potential in reintegration, because everybody is not a radical extremist. the one who are fighting us today. they have different grievouses. and the way the situation is evolving in this regard, i think we can deprive them from their foot soldiers and their mid level and low level commanders, and that will have the impact. but if we can solve the question of the sanctuary, then i think our our -- we will have a shorter -- shorter journey with less effort. and less loss of lif and blood. th won't be the easier way to come and solve the problem. but even if that did not take

place, then the requirement will be to make arrangement that all afghan and pakistan turn, and that arrangement has to be deprive from them also. them, i mean through the reconciliation and reintegration to deprive them from having all of the foot soldiers. i think that is very much possible. and i do believe that in the coming year, we will see some significant reintegration events. >> thank you, minister. minister mohammadi, would you like to address that question about if? no. okay. good answer. good. very good. yes, sir? this -- mr. mohammadi has another meeting downtown. let's see how the question goes. it might be the last one. >> hi. my same is samhadi, i'm from

afghanistan tv, i'd like to ask my question in personal and if possible, please translate. >> i am. [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] >> i wanted to ask his excellency, the minister, whether in the recent talks in washington, d.c., where you have come across the topic of permanent bases in afghanistan or not. if you have come across this topic, what result has it yielded -- has it given so far? >>[speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue]

[speaking in native tongue] >> translator: the second question is directed to his excellency the minister of interior howe howe -- mohammadi. there seems to be a mixed message, particularly when you earlier mentioned as successful, joint nighttime operations that have eliminated a lot of high command level and id commander level capabilities from the

taliban and terrorists organization and yielded the apprehension, or elimination of high value targets in general. when we go back to his excellency karzai, he seemed to be against the operations that do not often yield the desired strategic result. so is -- should we take this as a differenc in political views, in policy views, how should we translate this in afghanistan? >> so minister wardak, you will take the first question? >> yeah, i'm not sure shall i talk in his language or mine -- english. >> english would be fine. >> yeah, actually on the invitation of secretary gates, not to -- on the subject of discussing the strategic partnership -- but actually i will tell you that this issue of

basis have been blown out of proportion in the media. this is already some mention of access of u.s. to afghan bases if it is required, and the already signed enduring strategic partnership document which was signed in 2005. that's about -- our purpose for this trip was not discussing the basis, but we did discuss the nature of our relations after 2014. which will be related to some sort of strategic partnership, and both sides have a lot of emphasize on the need of that, but the actual official talking and discussion on the issue is

going to take place later on some time in the future by u.s. government and also the designated members of th afghan government. so that is actually has been dealt as a separate issue. which will be worked out in the future. >> thank you, minister. [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue] [speaking in native tongue]

[speaking in native tongue] >> translator: i would like to reiterate wha i shared with all of you earlier, indeed, joint nighttime swift operations have dealt back breaking blows to the enemy, eliminating high value targets but high level and mid level commanders as far as high profile and active drug dealers. i will say this again and again because i am convinced of it. i don't think anything should be made of this rather than purely what it was which is a concern from the side of our president, president karzai, concern of

having civilian casualties. and thank god these have dealt much more severe blow to the enemy that was anticipated. and there have been a very fundamental tool. i'd like to reiterate that again and again. there waa concern from president, not a difference in policy, or political views, or anything like that. >> mr. ardak, mr. mohammadi, mr. general barno, thank you very much. you've been frank and given us your opinion on all of these things. i also want to thank the people that asked questions and people that came out. very good questions, as always, from this crowd. please join me in thanking these three panelists. [applause] [applause] >> and we can allow mr. mohammadi to leave the building. >> are you going this [captions copyright national

cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] .

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