our last call for john lauck comes from california on the s.ne for independent caller: i see something bogging down the health care system, and it is a lot of fat on top. i see a lot of small nonprofit hospitals with a six-figure ceo, who does not want to trim anything from the top. it is good that you bring specialists and things in, but those people are not being paid enough for what they do, or they're doing it for free. it is still a lot of fat on top. if they could trim that, like no corporate jets, etc.

-- corporate jets, etc., i think it could trim a lot of money. i'm not sure how much your guests make -- your guest makes per year, but i'm sure it is substantial. guest: a good question, and i think the challenge for all of us is to figure of how we balance the need for the deficit that is there for the hospitals. how do we make sure that we talent that right balanc the hospitals need and whether it is the administrators role or down to the key doctors and specialists that need to be trained and need to be there to help our children. the focus that we are doing at children's hospitals is to provide the day to day care for our children. host: we have been talking to john lauck, president and ceo of

children's miracle network hospital. thank you for being here today. and thank you to everyone who participated in the program. if we will see you tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. eastern. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> should presidential libraries receive federal funds? currently, the libraries are built with federal -- private money, while the kremlin maintains them. coverage at 10:30 eastern on c- span 3. congress returns from its

president daybreak this afternoon. the house meets at 2:00 eastern to debate four bills. later this week, 2011 federal spending. the senate also meets at 2:00 to determine senate judicial confirmations. live senate coverage on c-span2. >> i am excited what happens to society when it gets boring. >> the effects of the internet on society. where the future may take us. >> it is when your mom takes it for granted when she can take a video and upload it to you too. -- youtube. >> british prime minister david cameron addresses parliament this morning on the european response to libya.

the european union has agreed to sanctions, including an arms embargo, asset freeze, and visa ban. until then, an update on an happening in the middle east. from new york, the deputy international editor 4 "time" magazine and the author of this last stand."dafi's how is his last stand going? can you seriously expect him -- can he seriously expect to remain in power for much longer? guest: it is very bloody. this man clearly is in the throes of a grand illusion that things can go back to the way they were a couple of weeks ago. he, his sons, and some elements

of the army that remain loyal to him and a large number mercenaries are still attacking rebel forces, but they are beginning to surround them. there are towns east of tripoli that have fallen and the our towns to the west. the rebels have now been gathering strength. they were able to bring down one of gaddafi's jet airplanes, which was attacking them. it seems like they have also managed to get their hands -- the rebels, on some of the oil installations and haveegun to export oil once again. they are figuring out how to make sure that the revenues from that goes into the hands of the rebels other than the adopt the government. it is beginng to feel like he is cornered in tripoli. -- they are figuring out how to make that go into the hands of the rebe as opposed to the

government. host: who are the people coming into a fight to support gaddafi? some members of his own tribe and other tribes that remain loyal. there are mercenaries, people from neighboringountries like chad, sudan, erra leone. lots of african countries that over the years have had long and bloody civil wars and you have a generation of young men trained in the art of fighting. many of them were financed by gaddafi in the 1980's and 1990's. those countries may no longer have civil wars, but they don't have an of jobs, so you have a large number young men with training in fighting and no

jobs. so they are available, as guns for hire. so gaddafi has been able to tap into that. host: these mercenaries are coming struggle for the cash and not necessarily because they support gaddafi's philosophy? guest: that is probably an accurate decision. some of them may come from groups that ov the years were financed by gaddafi when he financed civil wars and unrest in many parts of africa. so there may be some that have loyalty or a sense of we need to do for him what he did for us. my suspicion is the majority of these people are coming for the money. host:here's a lead story this morning, "protests in the ab world grows." phoenicians get rid of their prime minister. -- tunisians.

is this a lesson we will see played out in some of the other countries that have also had similar types of uprisings? guest: tt would not surprise me. countries that are new to democracy. especially the ones that are coming out of long and dramatic eras of despotism. these things can be messy. we have seen that in iraq and many other countries around the world, not just in the arab world. what is happening in tunisia is they have managed to get rid of the prime minister, who is a holdover from the premise regime. he was close to the previous president. it was surprising to me that he surved this long. i would expected him to go very soon after president ben ali did. the young people revolting against ben ali made it clear

from the beginning that they were not going to stand for this man being prime minister. this is essentially an aftershock of what happened in mid january when the previous dictator was overthrown. host: we're speaking with the "time" magazine deputy international editor, coming to us from new york. we are talking about the upheaval in arab world. we would like you to get involved in the conversation. the numbers are on your screen. 202-628-0205 for all other calls. we will show you video that we have gotten from libya and supplied to us. our first call from bobby ghosh comes from modesto, california, on the democrat line. caller: i just want to say something. i watched tv a lot.

all the countries that get into america, america. we have our own problems. we are working for $10 an hour. we don't have power. america cannot even help its own people, let alone the other people. it is ridiculous. all the money that they spend. i just hope that hillary clinton runs. i am voting for her. why did we have to get involved with all these other people's problems when we have all of these problems? host: in terms of foreign policy and u.s. diplomacy, why does the u.s. need to get involved in the middle east at this stage? guest: i have good news for i leaned. these people don't need american help and they're not asking for it. don't want it.

there would probably be large numbers of them resentful if the u.s. interfered much. one of the key points of the arab revolution and the reason why it's been successful is this was begun by arabs, for arabs with minimal u.s. intervention appear the u.s. role in egypt was mainly to train egyptian military -- restrain egyptian military from attacking its own people. these people are not looking for handouts and certainly not from the u.s. in their lifetime they have only knownne ruler, one dictator, most of them appear that dictator was supported and propped up by the u.s. so they are not necessarily looking to the u.s. to give them money or support. they would like the united states not to intervene much. nobody wants a return to the bad old days of two months ago, and

certainly not obama. if you are wondering where the u.s. goes next, given its own constraining situation, helping to finance these new governments in these countries, i think answer is no. host: earlier in the program we spoke with a journalist in benghazi right now. he says a lot of people on the streets were asking where is our help from the united states and obama? guest: in part that's because of the expectation that was set up by the administration when the president went to cairo and made the famous speech to the muslim world. he set himself up for that. people will holdim to those stdards. in the real sense, if libya needs international support, it is much more likely to come to europe because the europeans are right there. europeans have better

relationships with people in libya than the united states. because for so many years libya was persona non grata for the u.s.. they did not accept economic ties or diplomatic ties for a lo time. it's much more likel that the french or italians or nato would be involved in any activity than the u.s. host: next cl from annapolis, maryland, barbara, in the penn line. caller: morning. i have a question in regard to all the people demonstrating. most of them are young people, obviously. it has to do public creating jobs over there. obviously, they want a better life. can you kind of give us any idea of how they would build an economy? it is not that they have a lot of technology over there that theyre developing. the other comment i have is what do and you see the future role of the u.s. being in the middle east?

guest: i think in terms of creating an economy, that varies from country to country. libya has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. it's a major exporter of oil. it only has 6 million people which is the population of new york city. it's not hard to see libya being able to create an economy that has enough bs for most young people. in each of the population -- in egypt a population is lger -- the population is larger. it would be more difficult to create jobs. it was not that the economy lacked money in libya. the money was being funneled into a handful of people, cronies of the dictator. if the new governments in these countries are able to address the single biggest problem which is corruption, and reduce the corruption, i think the

economies will be opening up and creating opportunities for other people as well. no one is suggesting that it's going to be easy. but it is possible. it's not hard to see how countries like egypt and tunisia create jobs for their people. as for the role of the u.s., the u.s. is a major importer ofil. the u.s. is the lone superpower in the world. the u.s. of course will have rol-- role. that will be more hands off and it has been in the past year this is an opportunity. ople who see this as a problem may see this as a challenge for america because we have to change the way we've done business with these people. i would characterize it more as an opportunity for the u.s. to create a relationship finally with arab countries, and our society, rather than arab dictators.

we have heardg secretaries of state in the u.s. saying that egypt has been a friend of ours. that's not true. egypt has not. president mubarak has been a friend to the u.s. the u.s. has not tried hard to make friends with actual egyptians. w these are young people not beholden to the u.s., but not anti-american writer. integuments of revolution across the arab world, people have not been burning the american flag. people not been hanging effigies of the president of the united states. these people are suspicious of the u.s. and u.s. interests. that is understandable why they are suspicious, but they are not anti-u.s. if the obama administration is able to reach out in a friendly and open fashion, think you will see a response from that society which will be equally friendly.

host: let's move to tucson, arizona, russell on the republican line. caller: your guest said that these countries are not asking for our help, but they are certainly not refusing it. we are subsidizing mexico. obviously, the money is not getting to the people, because people are coming across the border like flies to the united states. if we want to secure the border, we have to tell mexico that 's your problem. if you want to continue to get money from the u.s., you seal the border. host: we will try to keep the discussion regarding the discussion we're having wh bobby ghosh on the uprisings in the arab world. our next call is from manassas, virginia, arraignment on the

democrat line. aller: i haven't more of comment -- i don't have a question, but a comment. the way obama is seen on how he is handling the middle east crisis and everything going on over there, no matter what he does, the republicans will say the opposite. i think a lot of republicans need to notice that. if he went in there and started talking down on libya or anything like that, they would probably say that he's trying to create another war. host: we will leave it there. bobby ghosh, "time" magazine. guest: the obama administration has been a step behind on all of the arab issues. the cia and the state department could not and did not anticipate any of this.

it is easy to see why. over a decade now, washington, whether republican or democrat, washington has quite a tendency to look at the arab countries throh a certain prism. and it has not been building relationships with the society's rather than individuals. these and peopleho have risen against their dictators particularly. the u.s. has very little understanding of these young people. people around the world, the perceived wisdom was that these young arabs were completely under the thumb of the dictators. they were angry and jobless and frustrated, but they had no political -- no ability to rise as a pitical force and that they would remain suppressed and

kept down by their rulers for eternity. all of those analyse were wrong. these people, these young arabs are not only angry, but they were also able to organize themselves. they were able to use the tools of modern technology, social networking, cell pho texting, and the internet in general. they were also able to get the word o by using the other tools of modern technology like television to get the world more involved, to get their story told for the whole world. host: you have brought up the youth movement in these uprisings. we have some facts and figures from the u.n. population division, talking about what they call a youth quake. six out of 10 people in the middle east and north africa are

under the age of 30. this map goes from the western part of north africa in mauritania where the folks under the age of 30, that is 68%. itoes all the way to the eastern part of the middle east where folks under the age of 30 is 50% of the population in qatar. in libya is 58%. 56% of young arabs use the internet every day. 54% consider television the most trusted source of news. 15% goal to start their own business within the next year. let's go with that 15% and how much of those folks or how much will they be driving the next step in this uprising movement in north africa and the middle east? the people that want to start their own businesses andhen get involved in the economy of their respective countries?

guest: there's a lot of potential for a new wave of entrepreneurship in the arab and north african world. so much to build economies are controlled by cronyism. if you wanted to open a business, your only chance of success is if you were related in some way to the dtator or a friend of his sons. that is no longer going to be true in many of these countries, which means young people who have a vision and drive and desire to create businesses for themselvesr their families will, hefully, have something closer to a level playing field. there will still be problems in finances and other problems that young businessmen have around the world. but they will now, at least, have the opportunity to pursue their dreams. if these young people have already shown us that they are technologically very savvy and that they are risk takers. rose up against their dictator,

after all. there's room to be optimistic that a new wave of entrepreneurialism will spread across the middle east. that will create jobs for young people in sectors that did not exist previously. host: let's go back to the phones as we continue our conversation with bobby ghosh, "time" magazine editor. jeff is on our independent line. caller: good morning. first of all, is said that average people are suspicious of americans. i don't know why. american interests, which the whole world knows is pretty much oil. the u.s. sends billions of dollars of aid and technology to these countries alone in the middle east. in return we get aid because of

our overindulgence my style -- overindulgent lifestyle. i don't know why they are so suspicious of us. the riches that they have earned over the years -- they are very hard-working people, i agree with that. but the american dollar has brought those countries into the current century. i just don't understand hatred. another point is you said that they are not asking for u.s. help. i have been monitoring tons of different websites. people are screaming for obama and america's help because of the fact that they are being slaughtered. women and children. that is all. guest: i can help you understand

why young arabs are suspicious of the u.s. try to put yourselves in the shoes of a young egyptian, age 30. your entire life, you and only known one ruler, named mubarak's, who was corrupt and prevented your society from reaching their true potential. who is the force that allowed hosni mubarak to remain in power? it was the u.s., protecting its own interest in the region. they kept him in power 30 years. that's a reason to be suspicious of the u.s. if, if i were in that position. the billions of dollars in technology the u.s. has given to the arab world is true. but the technology was given to a regime, not given to the people. there was very little effort by the u.s. to make sure that it trickled down to ordinary egyptis. mubarak's family has billions of dollars.

his army has high technology. if you are an average young egyptian, you e seeing none o that. your life has not changed significantly since the time of your grandfather's. a depressing idea that your life has not improved and will not improve. it's easy to see why these people -- of course they blame mubarak's first and that's why they get rid of him. but naturally they are also going to blame some of the people who enabled mubarak. the u.s. federal to play in that and that is why they are suspicious. the second part of your question, the people calling out for american intervention are typically people in libya, where their government is slaughtering them. you are not hearing about egyptians or tunisians or bahraini people calling for u.s. help. these are people wanting to

rebuild their countries. once tunisia is successful in removing their prime minister, they will not look for an american handout. they are looking for the west's support in preventing the dictator from slaughtering them appear that is a specific kind of help. that's because they don't have the ability to do that themselves. they will not what the u.s. to .ubsidize the libyan economy the libyan economy has a lot of oil. if the country public is gould with anything approaching a non- corrupt, effective government, the libyan economy has an opportunity to be very rich and ordinary libyans would have a chance to become quite well be very quily host. host: tom, republican line. caller: thanks for taking my call. i have witnessed some of this so-called hate, the perceived

bias of the support of israel of the united states. question about syria and demographics of the middle east, egypt and others, i think it is similar to syria, but in serious the son of the former ruler and a dictator and made it to power. he is a young western-wise position, speaks english and so forth. what do you see as the possible evolution of how this might apply to syria? guest: tom, you are correct. syria has the same youth bulge. more than half its population is less than 30 years old. i am sure that young syrians feel the same kinds of frustrations and disappointments with their governments that others do. syria has had a certain amount of economic success in recent years is one difference.

the proportions of people who are unemployed may be slightly smaller than in egypt. it's hard to get accurate figures because these countries are so closed. anecdotally, there are fewer unemployed people in syria and egypt. that is a safe bet. you are right that his son inherited the dictatorship. he is a western trained physician. he started out with great expectations. there was a lot of hope that coming from the background that he did he would be able to reform syria as well as politically and economically. it would be a space for people to express themselves and hopefully start democratic reforms. it has been nearly 10 years,

maybe a little more since bashar asada took over and those expectations have been allied. the syrian regime continues to keep a tight lid on opposition, on any kind of expression of dissent in that country. the one big difference between syria and egypt is that the syrian regime has already shown in the past that it is perfectly capable of slaughtering tens of thousands of its own people. as it has done in the past. syrian forces killed -- again, nobody has any accurate numbers, but thousands and thousands were killed because they were voicing their opposition to the syrian government. and that has a cooling effect on the people when you know your own government does not shy from shooting down his people. -- its people. that makes people think twice

before the rise of. but that having been said, it has been quite constructive that in recent weeks the syrian government has had a efforts to track -- to crack down and has tried to ban facebook and twitter. and shows that the government is worried. if the regime was completely confident in its own position it would not be so worried. there is the same sense ava anger and resentment coming to a boil and syria -- syrian authorities are worried about it. host: let's take another call. caller: i want to know if [unintelligible] can be persecuted -- want to

know if these mercenaries can be held accountable. host: thanks for the call. guest: that is a great question and it is a little murky. the international criminal court has so far made news for going after the big fish, the charles taylor's of this world. it is a little murky what happens to the foot soldiers. with the international community has the appetite to prosecute these people >> we are going to london were live remarks from prime minister david cameron. he is remarking on the situation in libya.

>> mr. speaker, we have been working intensely to can our people out. as of now, we have successfully removed around 600 british nationals from libya. the evacuation has started from three locations. at tripoli airport, a series of six aircraft have brought out more than 380 british nationals. a similar number of foreign citizens. at ben gussie, 119 nationals and 303 foreign citizens from over 30 different countries. the first of these evacuation's took place in difficult conditions. these evacuations were assisted on the ground by five rapid deployment teams. in total, nearly 30 extra staff from the foreign office to help marshal british citizens in the

scenes in and around airports and ports. clearly, the most challenging part of the evacuation is locating those british nationals scattered in the oil fields deep in the desert. i authorized the military operation to bring as many as possible out of the desert. on saturday, two aircraft flew into the desert and picked up 74 british nationals, 1724 nationals, at three locations. on this second mission, one of the aircraft involved suffered minor damage from small arms fire. this underlines the a challenging environment in which aircraft are operating. britain has now taken a leading role in coordinating the international evacuation effort. our aircraft are involved internationally.

we have established a temporary headquarters and multi to coordinate the evacuation of various countries. we should pay tribute to malta and the people that they are playing. in terms of the number of british citizens remaining in libya, this is difficult to ascertain, given the situation on the ground. not all of them will want to leave. i ask that virgin work be done in both categories, both that wish to leave and those who do not. on current indications, as of today, there are fewer than 150 british citizens in libya, of which only a small proportion which to -- wish to leave. this situation can change and we will keep the house updated. we continue to assure that those who wished to leave can do so. our fleet will remain in the

area to assist. we also have military aircraft in malta ready to fly in at short notice. the government will continue on focusing that our citizens are safe. the national security council is looking at the overall strategic picture, meeting last friday and again today, looking at their risk of citizens in countries around the region. there will be lessons learned from this evacuation, including hiring charter aircraft, using defense assets, and the need for greater redundancy. importance was taken to extract our embassy. this was taken out on friday and saturday. our judgment throughout has been that the risk to british

citizens has been growing, including the embassy, and americans, french, and germans similarly suspended the operations of their embassy. we have arranged turkey, which has several thousands of its own citizens in libya, will be looked after. i am sure the house will want to put on record all those that made the rescue effort possible, the pilots, royal navy crews, and everyone involved in all three armed services, everyone who put themselves in harm's way. let me turn now to the pressure we are putting on qaddafi's regime. for the future of libya and its people, qaddafi's regime must end and he must leave. to that end, we are taking every step to isolate the regime, to deprive it of money, shrink its power, and insure anyone

responsible for abuses of power in libya are held to account. with respect to these actions, britain is taking a lead. we secured a u. n. security resolution which we drafted and is unusually strong and includes all our proposals. it condemns qaddafi possible actions and put a travel ban on all those involved in his regime, access for international rights human monitors, lifting of restrictions on the internet and media, and ending of tension on journalists. it refers the current leaders to the international court to face the justice they deserve. we were also the driving force behind a special session of the un council to reject them from the organization. with our european partners, we have today secured agreement on

freezing the assets of a wider group of individuals and banning them from entering the retain union, and imposing a wider arms embargo on the libyan regime. britain is also implementing these direct measures against the regime. a special counsel was held yesterday where we froze the assets of qaddafi, five of his family members, people acting on their behalf, and entities controlled or owned by them. the government has revoked colonel qaddafi's immunity as head of state so that he nor his family may enter the u.k. we have also revoked in number of visas to those linked to the regime, and have placed many of them on a watch list. further isolation of the regime, for the use of asset freezes and travel bans to give the clearest possible message to those on the

fringes of the regime that now is the time to desert it. and we do not rule out the use of military assets. we must not tolerate this regime using military force against its own people. in that context, i have asked the defense staff to work with our allies on a no-fly zone. it is clear this is an illegitimate regime that has lost the content of its people, and our message to colonel gadhafi is simple. go now. everyone hopes the situation will be resolved quickly, but there is a real humanitarian crisis. currently, the most pressing need is to assist the migrant workers in egypt and tunisia to go home. international secretaries will be visiting the region later this week to assess the situation on the ground. in the meantime, we will be flying in supplies from dubai.

north africa and the wider middle east are now at the epicenter of momentous events. history is a sweeping through the region, yet we must deal with the immediate consequences, especially for this british citizens caught up in the situation, but also we must look at how we and the west should respond. hopes and aspirations which have been smothered for decades are stirring. young people are seeking their rights. in the vast majority of cases, they are doing so peacefully and bravely. the parallels of what happened in europe in 1989 are not the size, and there have been many developments in the past, and those of us who believe in democracy and open society agree, this is a precious moment of opportunity. while it is not up close to dictate from each country must run themselves, is not our belief that the -- it is our

belief that freedom and human rule of law is what best expresses its people. and they are not british or western values, but the values of human beings everywhere. so we need to take this opportunity to look and our relationship with this region, the billions in the euro that we fund, our economic ties, and be clearer in linking our assistance to promote more open and pearl societies, and we need to suspend once and for all that democracy has no place in the arab world. too often in the past, we have a false choice between stability on one hand and reform and stability on the other. denying people the basic rights does not preserve stability. rather, the reverse. now is not the time to park the

middle east peace process. quite the opposite. reform, not refreshen, is the way to lasting stability. no one pretends that democracies can be built overnight. it is the work of patient craftsmanship, and it takes time to put its building blocks in place. but what is happening in the middle east is a once-in-a- lifetime opportunity, a moment when history turn the page. the next page is not yet written, and it falls to us to fashion a better future for this region, to foster a better relationship with our people. we now have the opportunity to achieve freedoms that you in britain have. i am determined i shall not let them down. i commend this statement to the house. >> mr. speaker, could i think the prime minister for his statement? i would like to ask about the

four areas he covered. british security, security in the region and the least. can i ask for deep and secret -- gratitude to members of the armed forces who have exceeded with courage and professionalism in evacuating so many british nationals and from other countries in the last week. these men and women are a credit to our nation. our first concern as the prime minister said, is the safety of our own people. for obvious operational and security reasons, i would not expect the prime minister to discuss future operations, but can he assure the house that all past contingencies have been accounted for in libya? and given the closure of the embassy on saturday, can he assure us that everything is still being done to keep close contact with those citizens that remain, and tell us which means

of communications are available to them? on the question of libya's political future, the whole house agrees with the view that the only future is one without colonel qaddafi and his regime. we welcome his comments on a no- fly zone. could i also welcome the international isolation expressed in you and counsel -- un council 1730. the resolution imposes travel bans on 17th about the loyalists and asset freezes on a number of other individuals. can he tell the house if these assets go wide enough in covering all the, including his immediate family, who have decided to stand with him? can he reassure the house that the government will make full use of the progressions -- provisions to nominate additional members targeted by travel bans and asset freezes?

on the human rights situation, there is a growing humanitarian crisis on the tunisian border. i welcome the steps that he talked about. let me turn to events beyond libya and the water region. the defense unfolding across the middle east are as significant as the revolution that liberated eastern europe in 1989, and as he said, our response to the needs to be equally ambitious. there is a popular will and many of these countries for democratic reform, and this is in line with the values we share. does he agree a way to approach the situation is to build a strategic response, including closer economic times, support her civil society and institution-building organizations? and does he succeed that while there is much we can do bilaterally, we need a multilateral effort, including the european union? can i also share the sentiments

that he expressed that it would be a tragedy, if in this mode of change, the opportunity was not grasp to make progress? canada also give my report report to the progress of talks between israel and the palestinians and his support for the un security council on settlements? can he say what steps the u.k. will now be taking to get negotiations moving again? on questions of arms sales, can the prime minister confirm the government will work with eu partners to strengthen the guidelines and operations of the rule on arms sales? finally, can i ask about the lessons to be learned about the immediate crisis for response during the last week? many members of the house on all sides have been dealing with constituents deeply anxious about their family member stranded in libya. does the prime minister accept the foreign office should have done more, as other country did, to enter plan for on the

ground on tuesday, rather than late on wednesday night to evacuate our citizens? can he explain why this was not the case? given the scale of the emergency, transparent need for coordination across government, does he not agree the emergency committee should have been convened earlier than thursday? and again, can he explain why that did not happen? and mr. speaker, can you share with the house the water lessons he learned about the running of his government? i think the whole country has thankfully seen the scale of response that can be mobilized to help our citizens, but can he promised british nationals abroad in the future that they will not be let down, as they were in the chaos and incompetence that we saw last week? i have to say, mr. prime minister, i am surprised he did not take the opportunity to apologize to this house for the handling which we saw last week, and i hope in his reply he takes the opportunity to do so.

and when the inquiry is complete, will the prime minister promised that there will be findings to the house, along with a conclusion on wasn't to be learned? >> mr. prime minister? >> thank you. first of all, thank you for the praise of our armed forces. i think they have performed a magnificent job, as they always do. thanks also to the foreign office staff for doing what is an extremely difficult job. in terms of future operations, it is difficult to say too much more than the house. i have given these new numbers about the number of british and citizens we believe are still in the and those who want to leave, and it is still a small number, but that can change. as i explained, we have the assets to help where appropriate. in terms of the embassy, we will have a consul in at aaa, but we will be working with -- in

tripoli, but we will be working with other officials. in terms of action taken against libya, whether the travel ban or asset freezes go wide enough? i think this is an important point. what we want to do is isolate and target the key members of their regime, with a warning that those close to the regime can desert or leave it, but if they stay with it, there is a chance they will be hit with travel bans and asset freezes, too. in terms of the wider region, i agree with he says about institution building and making sure the european union sharpen up its act in terms of neighborhood policy. there is room for multilateral action. i hope in this country, we can do more in terms of political relations and building on party to party relationships, to build up the building blocks of democracy in that country. i agree with he says a but israel and palestine. i am proud we backed the

security council. that was the right decision, but obviously, meant a disagreement with our strongest ally, the u.s., but it was the right decision to make. arms sales, the guidelines needs to be adhered to. finally, questions about lessons to be learned. there are lessons to be learned. worked with respect to egypt, scheduled and chartered flights, did not work as well in libya. lessons need to be learned about military assets. it is not as easy as some people say. the more you rely on charters earlier, the more the schedules of the airlines' collapse. it asked a question about learning lessons of the water running of government. there are always listens to learn. if apologies are in order, he should think about the daunting dealing with libya under the last government.

mr. speaker, i agree, and knew of the complete chaos in libya, there is an opportunity with our european partners to expedite the downfall of the present regime and create a post-qaddafi structure in the vacuum. we agree, given the appalling human rights, it was a complete misjudgment to turn it into a defense cooperation with libya. there are lessons are from what was done in the desert. the last government was correct to encourage the giving us of weapons of mass destruction, the parameter should have been given. i made the point before. parameter should have been placed on terms of the release of al-megradhi. it should not have been the british government's position to facilitate that. >> could i echo the commendation of our forces, diplomatic and other staff, who worked so hard

to provide an adequate service for british citizens and other stranded in libya? and commend the other actions the government is now taking in respect to this. could i ask him to expand on the point he made in the statement about what he describes as greater redundancy for responding to future crises, by which i assume he means greater resilience, greater resources? would he accept that cutting the foreign office's staff by 450, to save 30 million pounds, at a time when the budget is flat, cannot but significantly undermine the ability of the foreign office? and whether or not this contributes to the crisis? >> cuts to the foreign office are much less severe than others. i do not think that has had a material impact. in terms of the issue of redundancy, clearly, the case of

egypt, a combination of scheduled flights and charter flights meant that we led the pack in terms of getting people out. in libya, the situation was more difficult, and we need to learn the lessons about what extra capacity to put in place. it is not as simple as people think. if you add in capacity to quickly, you ruin the schedules. lessons should be learned. we stand today and britain is doing a huge amount to help other countries out of libya, helping out over 32 other nationalities. >> it is strange, when we have a defense review, we are told we do not need a royal navy. last week, we saw we needed one more than ever. will you assure the house that as long as you are here, there will be no further cuts to the royal navy? >> we are an exception is well

served by the navy. the point i would make is, obviously, we are making a reduction in the number of current frigates, but we have coming on stream. it is a mixture of military and civilian assets that need to be brought to bear to help a country like libya. >> the prime minister has my strong support for the vote that his government cast at the un council. the last government cast a similar vote with cross party support. does he agree with me that the lessons of the last decade is perhaps their own volition, that israelis and palestinians will not negotiate a solution with themselves, and that the international community needs to force the pace on the terms and timing of that resolution? that needs to be led from the un security council. >> i agree with the gentleman.

i think what i'm trying to make sure is there is a real combination of effort from britain, france, germany, the united states, to provide that backing. the problem is, it is difficult for us to want a solution more than the parties want a solution. we should be making the argument right now that the awakening of democracy in the middle east is not a threat to the peace process, but could be an opportunity. >> on that subject, president mahmoud abbas has called for elections in the palestinian authority. do you share my concern hamas, whose mandate has expired, is refusing to allow such elections to take place in gaza? >> the key thing, in terms of our engagement, should be to ask those on the palestinian side to accept the key principles of

recognizing the state of israel, recognizing former agreements, then it will be possible to hold proper negotiations. but we need that to happen in order to get both tables -- part is at the table properly to hammer out the problem that everyone knows is there. >> conversations with president obama. has he emphasized the opportunity in the middle east to provide progress on palestine and the middle -- israel? has he expressed support of that resolution? >> i have had frank conversation with president obama about this. i believe it is an incredibly close relationship, but when you disagree, you should be frank in saying so. in this situation, we do not agree. while the resolution was ideally drafted, we believe is right, and are disappointed that it was vetoed. we have to persuade the americans that further investment in the peace process is absolutely worth it, not just

for its own sake, but for stability in the region. >> the government has been absolutely right to support the forces for democratic change, but does my honorable friend think that this supports will have any effect on future relationship with our other autocratic friends in the region? >> i was actually quite stroke, on a recent trip to the gulf region, how our old allies are actually in favor of taking further steps toward democracy, more open societies. far from the dismay from our clear reaction that democracy and freedom is a good thing, and they were fully in support of it. >> mr. speaker, in kuwait,

promoting arms sales and exports, does the prime minister have an opportunity to discuss with the former prime minister the fact that 20 years ago a no- fly zone was imposed without a security council resolution? isn't it time that european union nato members worked more urgently to make sure that qaddafi's regime cannot use helicopters and aircraft to crash the resistance to its regime? >> i was in kuwait recently to commemorate the action that he led, of diverting that country from saddam hussein. those who question whether he is right to take defense companies to kuwait -- kuwait was a country where 20 years ago we risk the lives of our personnel to free that country. it seems to me an odd argument that kuwait should not have the means of its own defense. in terms of the no-fly zone, of

course, we must comply with international law, but we need to insure we do the planning and preparation now. no one is sure what qaddafi will do to his own people. he takes action, we need to put a no-fly zone in quickly. >> the prime minister is right to place the bravery of u.k. forces and staff in light. given these companies have had adequate evacuation plans in place or the only to learn a elation for safeguarding? correction makes an extremely good a point. this is a conversation i think we should be having now with those oil companies. they do have evacuation and transport arrangements. it is important to try to get

our people lot of working with them and make sure they're playing their part in delivering that. i am sure there are lessons about more what they should have done about rather than being turned over to us. >> it is a great pleasure to see here without charges due to a foreign office minister. the international criminal court that has been invoked, can we make it quite clear that this will not only apply to gaddafi that will apply to anyone who chooses to side with the regime? >> the german makes an extremely good point. not only will the international criminal court just not apply to people in the in khadafy regime but those in the armed forces who commit atrocities in libya or elsewhere.

the reach of the international law is very long and its memory is long and quite right, too. >> the prime minister describes a very fluid series of events. this is a once in a lifetime generation to encourage it democracy to spread across the middle east. you gave a very robust message to gaddafi. do you have an equally robust message to dictators to choose not to support democracies but to send mercenaries to support gaddafi and the dictatorship? >> you make a good point which that this is a test for everyone, for nato, the eu, the arab league, and excess for the african union. the arab league has suspended libya in terms of its membership. we should be looking to the african union to take robust action as well. certainly the point he makes about mercenaries is well made and we should be making that

very clear to african army's and leaders even contemplating that sort of major. >> britain took part in an arms fair in libya last november with all types of sniper rifles given the history of gaddafi. is it not time that this government, whichever party in office, stop set -- stop selling arms to murdering bastard who murder their own people? >> we do have in this country now some of the toughest arms control legislation and regime anywhere in the world. would this government has done is immediately revoke about 30 licenses covering a whole range of products to that regime and others in the region. are there further lessons to be done? i'm quite clear wish to look at that to see what more could be done.

>> we assure the house has learned from the last labor government to plan effectively for after the regime change. >> you make an important point which is that we need now to plan for every eventuality. we need to plan for potential humanitarian crisis and also what should happen if the regime should fall which imbeds itself for a long time and effectively we have a virtual said -- a virtual civil war in libya. we need to work with the community to make sure we're ready for this. >> further to the point raised for east soleus, the end user certificates game is broken. but it does not work. since the first half of last year, 31 million pounds of armaments were sold to libya. many of them had smoke grenades,

tear-gas, and the whole plethora of those for a stay engaged against aggression. >> when you look at the terms of the deal in the desert that was done, we need to ask serious questions about how widely it went and what equipment was involved. they're people who put in place revocation of these licenses about what was intended several years ago. >> unanimous decision by the security council is often alert -- is often there. heads of state and heads of government will be liable to prosecution if they commit human rights offenses and offenses against humans. >> an extremely good point.

when britain drafted the text of this resolution, the advice i was given was that this would take days, weeks to get through the security council. it is remarkable that the u.s. and security council has adopted this unanimously and that all countries, without naming names, backed it. it is a positive sign and it means when we come forward with fresh security resolutions to tighten further the screws on this dreadful regime that there will be similar support. >> talking about planning for the future, and the discussions with nato in terms of issues that would require putting a larger role? >> the secretary of state and defense have been discussing a range of the things today including military planning for things like no-fly zones. those have been bilateral

efforts to get into areas like the desert to rescue around people. there has been a huge amount of coordination and i pay tribute to the brigadier to leave this process that whether it is german planes, british planes are canadian that we have each other's backs. i have had a range of discussions with different from ministers and presidents to make sure we are trying to help each other in this regard. >> a concern about the prospect of the coffee unleashing his very significant -- of gaddafi unleashing his war machine. would he give thought to the idea that those who are resisting gaddafi must be properly armed, if necessary, in order to ensure there are not wiped out -- like what happened in sarajevo? >> another important point. we are trying at the moment to make better contacted establish

contact with the opposition to learn more about what their intentions are. clearly what we wanted and what is in our best interest in the interest of the whole world than the libyan people is a swift removal of gaddafi from his decision. that is what we want to achieve and it is certainly something we should consider. >> can you confirm there is nothing new or peculiar about relations between the british government and the libyan regime? would you confirm that after april 1984 that the metropolitan police, the thatcher government humiliated the commissioner of the metropolitan police are requiring him to provide policeman and an escort of the murderer to the airport so that

he could get back safely to libya? >> that is a tortured way of making a political point. i would make when in return. you have to comply with international rules. under the last parliament, there was a discussion about the release. one party said it was the right thing to do and i am proud to say that this party did not go >> speaker, omy grandfather was one of the thousands of jews that had to leave libya because of gadhafi's persecuting jews. he came to this country because of his democracy. he would have been shocked to see not just the close relations of the last government between gaddafi but also the fact that this thing worse universities were accepting millions of pounds for the school of

economics from gaddafi. can we take steps to make sure this would never happen again? >> my friend speaks with great power. i think it was right to try and bring the country in the from the cold. the question is whether parameter should have a been put on that. -- better parameters should have been put on that. let's hope that is that the money they have can now be put to good use. >> is a non increasingly difficult to explain the behavior of the special ambassador for trade to is not only a close friend of gaddafi but also the convicted libyan drug smuggler? >> i am not aware of the

particular connection the hon. gentleman chooses to make. i am happy to look into them. to disqualify friends of gaddafi from public life, you would be saying goodbye to a lot of people. >> can i just say for future reference that references to members of the royal family should be very rare, sparing, and respectful darks always. -- respectful? always. we will be respectful. >> in the future, there is a much greater role to be played by contractors. we are saving lives.

>> there needs to be, i think it, greater planning between companies and government. companies have played an import rule, but this is right for the future. when your turn to bring people love the desert across turn to more platforms is extremely complicated. i am sure we can learn lessons about how to do it in the future. >> said. this would want to put on record their tremendous admiration for the courage of the libyan people who are fighting the dictator. there were if we're looking at lessons learned -- if we are the via the lessons learned from the no-fly zone, it meant that thousands have been protected and there is not a lot we can do immediately.

we should look at that as a matter of great importance because i think it [inaudible] >> the hon. lady always speaks with great passion about these issues and she is right to draw attention to where people are doing in libya trying extraordinary bravery. this is a people's revolution. people want this sort of freedom to take advantage of in this country. it is not without its difficulties and problems. you cover a vast area and it would take a serious amount of military assets. there are other ways other than helicopter gun ships and planes to carry that out. one thing we need to look at urged lyng and plan for and that

is why it conversations are taking place today. >> the prime minister rightly calls at his rural and illegitimate regime which has lost the consent of its people. when did he consider it was anything but darks >> i do think his regime is illegitimate. that is another urgent piece of work to have requested to make sure that we do everything that we can to isolate to cut off the money, supply, oxygen to this regime so it falls as fast as it possibly can. >> mr. speaker, you will recall a conversation into suspended arms sales to the region and to gear up their response. can i welcome the last parliament statement about a new

approach for democracy? would you consider creating a british foundation for democracy development for trade unions in use development money only. this way we can create something to help anyone in the future rathern t incriminate the past. i very much think building the building blocks of society, this is something in which we obviously have the democracy to ask whether there is more region do or whether there is another moon -- and the mechanism. there is cross second party

support for something that i think britain could take a part in helping to build. on thursday, u.s. journalists were pressing state department officials to explain why the u.s. is not able to help the evacuation efforts. we can rely on the united states for others we wish to help. >> this is a good question about the capability gap. clearly, i would argue that what this is demonstrating is the importance of flexibility. what is necessary is having a good range of military assets, transport aircraft as we will with the future a400-m, highly trained special forces, and more

after their review. i would make the point that people put the question about carriers, but the u.s. has something like 12 aircraft carriers and not one currently in the mediterranean. there is a flexibility of forces and the ability to get people in and out quickly rather than obsessing the particular platforms. >> i think -- i think the prime minister's statement to reconvene the human terms of. are you not, however, concerned about every country in the region about the security forces that have used weapons to have killed the young people who are demonstrating for their rights and jobs are using equipment in britain, europe, and the united states. we have to look to other relationships that are being used to carry of the carnage

against holy innocent civilians trying to demand what we want for ourselves. >> two points. we have provoked a large number of licenses including those to some of the countries you have mentioned. those countries that have met these aspirations with reform actually have a chance of progress. that is not the answer and i think that is the case we will see across the region. >> there is pressure on time. with a heavily subscribed to debate with the business committee to follow. extreme brevity is now required. >> in terms of cloaked relations with gaddafi's son, was he not surprised to find out they had meetings with the previous sector and also the previous

prime minister had been described as a "close personal friend?" >> this just highlights the issues that i was raising earlier. the point i would make is this. it was right to restore relations with libya, but parameters of judgment need to be brought to bear as well. >> in late to exaggerating and the vote cast by the united kingdom and the security council on israeli settlements, may i ask him whether he, like chancellor merkel, received a reproachful telephone call like netanyahu? did he, like chancellor merkel, tel netanyahu then he is the principal obstacle to negotiations and he must get on with negotiations? >> i did not on this occasion get a reproachful phone call from president netanyahu. i am sure i would have responded

robustly in the way that he suggests. >> does the prime minister think the relative inability of the west to offer help to egypt owes something to the disastrous policies of the regime change by minister means implemented by president bush and prime minister belair eight years ago? >> i take some issue with my friend. i think we should stop arguing but some of these points and actually tried to build a stronger argument about what our engagement with this region should be like. this is a rather naive neocon of the that you can impose democracy at the end of a barrel of a gun. it is not right but it has also raised a realistic approach of saying we have to deal with what is there. we should learn for our history and recognize that having elections and the rule of law and the independent judiciary,

free association, free speech, many of the rights that we had years before having the vote is much -- we should be focusing on in these relationships so we can "-- for them to a better future. >> will the prime minister commission an inquiry [unintelligible] >> i think the hon. gentleman is being slightly unfair. this is not an easy thing to get right. i think we did well in the case of egypt. clearly there are lessons to learn. i think there are a number of steps, as i have said, about defense assets, redundancy, the use of scheduled flights kamenetz think we can learn those lessons relatively

quickly. i think it is a straightforward and easy thing to do. >> mr. speaker, this is no surprise to anyone. does the prime minister understand that the majority of people in britain share his anchor that the last government with the scottish government did all they could to secure the release of the lockerbie bomb lockerbie-- the bomber? >> the british government should have taken a clear view. that was the largest mass murder in british history and they should die behind bars. it would have been a clear view, the right view. >> understanding the brief efforts of our military, lessons have to be learned for the future. james was released last night

and i expect the charge to contact the office. u.s. the same questions over and over again. his family had asked repeatedly in this by the fact they have been told. lessons have to be learned. we need to ensure the victims of libya will be a [inaudible] >> the former officer minister is listening and he will be able to take up the individual case. they have actually seen the very hard work and they're doing. they're covering not only with the crisis in libya but also within iraq -- earthquake in new zealand as well. i'd say been impressed by the work they do. if they have a constituency case from the foreign office will take it up to see what lessons can be learned.

>> is the prime minister mentioned earlier, colonel is the former chair of the african union. would you share the hope that the african union will exclude such dictators from their membership? >> we are on the case of this issue, my hon. friend. the secretary of state for international development will be talking to a number of african leaders about what we believe that african union could do to really step up to the plate and make the case for the unacceptable behavior of colonel gaddafi. >> whether he said the hopes and aspirations which had been plundered for decades are stirring and if we are to build in a relationship with the middle east based on mutual respect, is it not the case that we need to get rid of our reputation for double standards? then not only man standing up to dictators, but also it means that the occupation of one country by another is wrong and has to end?

>> i would have some agreement with the hon. gentleman. we should be clear in the case of israel and palestine that the settlements are wrong. the vote we cast in the u.n. security council is absolutely clear about that. we should also be clear that we want to seem close and, democracy, and freedom in countries across-the-board african in the middle east. when i found talking to leaders in kuwait, qatar, yemen, and elsewhere that it is not a message that friends in the gulf rejected. we, as an old friend, should be pushing and explaining. we should do so with respect and recognizing that different countries have different rates of development and different traditions. our belief in democracy should be open for negotiation. >> in light of gaddafi's 40 years of violence abroad and tierney at home, do you agree

that it was morally and ethically wrong for the previous government to send over defense contracts? would you be able to those in the public domain so that they could be fully scrutinized? >> may look at the so called the deal in the desert, there was a degree of ambiguity and i am very happy to look at whether the actual document can be put in the public domain so we can to the mistakes have been made. >> the dilemma in libya have led to the least likely option which would then it will be brought to occur again. he's already has in forcing his decision and you have a heard that the real worry allows that it will not just being a humanitarian disaster but a human rights disaster. the prime minister has indicated looking at doubling

efforts to ensure that we do not stand by to see that happen? >> khaddafi uses force against his own people, we cannot stand by. wish to be looking at a no-fly zone and why we need america to be fully engaged looking at what needs to be done. if someone had predicted that half of libya would be under control of rebel groups a few years ago, people would have said that is impossible with the security operations that gaddafi has said his >> -- disposal. it is a murderous dictator with control of this country and it has been knocked over some quickly. >> i think the prime minister for this. i also marked my personal thanks to the mps in were

controlling the go for that time. the prime minister is aware to the real threat in this country from the constant ongoing and stability in the middle east. will the government return its intentions to the instability? >> i think she's trying to get me to prejudge what might be in the budget which i can do but it makes good points about how we hope to rescue people from the budget. that may say again how brave those pilots, crews, and aircraft were in an extremely difficult mission which involved a number of stops and very uncertain about what they will find. cracks can the prime minister please tell the house what reports he has received about the killing of people in tripoli who were celebrating after listening to inaccurate

reports that gaddafi had fled to venezuela? >> i have not seen specific reports, but a number of people have been murdered and they both tripoli and the rest of the country by the murderous regime and the responsibility for that lies squarely with gaddafi in the people who run their regime and not with anyone else. >> on the broader point about the changes we're seeing in the middle east, with the prime minister agree that it is in britain's interest that we pursue a soft policy along the lines of what your saying to promote democracy where people are moving towards the desire to further democracy in these countries? >> i very much agree. in terms of the soft power, we do have incredible assets whether they're the british council, the bbc, political relations, all of those things could be brought to bear.

building democracy is painstaking work. it is those assets that can sometimes achieve the greatest success. >> can the prime minister explain the you procedure in the cobra emergency response committee? there has been criticism. was it because the deputy prime minister was not on board? will the publish that review? >> cobra is triggered by the prime minister. that is the typical way of doing so. let me just be clear. on monday, the foreign office crisis center was established which had people embedded into it. the idea that two state department for not cooperating is, i think wrong. cobra is an exercise by the prime minister and meets at the official level in terms of the range of different activities that we have to deal with the. it has been in activity over the

weekend. >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. can the prime minister's day -- minister say whether special charge of special forces were trained in libya or if they have been trained against people? >> the full terms of the deal in the desert need to be made clear. the people opposite would perhaps like to issue the word "sorry" for themselves. >> does the prime minister not accept that those in the government need to be very careful before they make statements about leaders fleeing their country as we have seen murder on the streets of tripoli as a result of the foreign secretary's foolish remarks? >> the murder on the streets in the tripoli is the responsible of the gaddafi and his murderous regime.

trying to make a point of that is truly pathetic. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i welcome the prime minister's statement on the leadership that the u.k. forces are showing of the coordinating in the ground -- on the land in and give to. can you say what steps are being taken about contingency plans to protect british nationals in growth -- both iman and yemen? -- oman and yemen? >> we're looking at the number of british nationals in the region and preventing for eventual release. we do not want to do anything to encourage those issues, but contingency plans are going on to make sure we have this issue's cover the -- covered. >> we wanted stringently controlled defense sector in the u.k., but does nothing not --

does he not think that we could have reconsidered the timing of the trade mission last week? >> i do not agree with that. i like to make people happy, but i do not agree. it was not an arranged trip. it was worthwhile going to cairo and be one of the first people to make it to tahrir square. going to kuwait on the 20th anniversary of their liberation about the importance of spreading democracy and freedom, i think that is extremely important. in terms of to accompany me, in november 2008, the former prime minister to many of the same company including british aerospace which played a big role in his own constituency. rolls royce and british aerospace are large employers. we need to make sure that they

go on and employ people. >> i would like to congratulate the prime minister and the chancellor and the quick actions they took on stopping the money. can the prime minister explain about the action about the u.n. resolution? >> the most important thing is trying to encourage and good in place terms as quickly as possible. i think is encouraging others to take that step before widening the net and putting even more pressure on the regime. >> thank you, mr. speaker. perhaps the prime minister should recall that under the

last tory administration, we never paid for it. looking an interview, would you look at the export credit part played in providing cover for unstable military is? >> the trip down memory lane i was taking with john major was to celebrate the fact that this country played a part in bringing about kuwait's liberation. should we continue to have a strong relationship with that country and is taking steps to greater openness. should we have a close relationship with them? i say yes, we should. >> i thought it was immensely impressive that we announced this summer in.

in particular, i point out that 95 british nationals were rescued and 274 nationals are rescued. we were leading an evacuation. >> his son is a pilot that has served bravely in afghanistan and elsewhere. with the british military has done is outstanding both in terms of the role of the air force in terms of the desert mission. there are over 32 different nationalities have been rescued and brought back by the british and there's a coordination going on in providing a lot of the air traffic control. this is something the whole country can be proud of. >> the deputy prime minister once said that your amazingly flaky on foreign affairs.

would the prime minister talk about overcoming the libyan people? >> i think that is the definition of flaky. >> i went to egypt, and important country that we should be encouraging and made a speech to the kuwaiti parliament about democracy and the links with middle eastern countries are important. one reason may go as that country after country say they were completely ignored by the last government. actually making sure that we're building those relationships is important and judgment here is completely wrong. >> libya is a real wake-up call. afghanistan is not the only one that matters. we have not had a balanced, moderate foreign policy.

with the prime minister agree that this is a reason to accelerate the drawdown from afghanistan so that we can meet the many crisis of the world that libya and others will come from the next decade? >> i do not think this is an either or. i know my old friend has considerable experience in afghanistan, but the drawdown should take place. we have set an end date for it. but between now and then, it should be done with our nato and other partners to make sure we doing on the ground so that that country can have some chance of controlling its own affairs, its content -- destiny but our aim in afghanistan is no more than the afghans themselves to go to secure the country so does not require the presence of foreign troops. it is as simple as that. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the last few weeks have shown that not everything in the middle east is necessarily contingent upon the israel- palestinian conflict.

and you >> -- that would ever policies emerge in north africa in the middle east, it is important to recognize the legitimacy of israel and that that act as a counterbalance to iraq? >> my friend makes a very good point. i do not think we should be pessimistic about the facts about greater democratization about the middle east in the arab world because of the more autocratic regimes use this as a way of keeping their own population have been. yes, the road between here and there may be quite bumpy and difficult, but it deals with democracy and i think, in the attic and it will be stronger. >> my constituent was stranded in the desert in an oilfield. he returned home last friday. initial contact was hard because of the circumstances on the

ground, but the family's family did not make available all the information to the embassy said that coordination could be brought about. when action does the prime minister take to assure that sharing formation is efficient as possible? >> there are lessons to learn about confirmation is to be shared. it is a difficult picture and we look at the numbers of people that we think are in libya and even in the age of the internet, cell phones, computer databases and the rest of it, getting in the those numbers, as i believe we now have and will go on publishing, it is difficult. we're looking with the government and it is clearly the central part of that. >> with my old friend agree with me that much we have heard from the opposite party over the last trick of the height of the libyan crisis is nothing short than naked, political

opportunism and as deputy leader of the labor party should apologize for comments about "a rapid deployment force?" >> you erred in assiduously keanu parliamentarian, but asking the prime minister about something about even with the prime minister does not even a responsibility, we will leave it there. >> our efforts being coordinated by this parliament and others to prevent the turmoil that can be an immigration problem for italy and southern europe? cracks at my friend makes a very good point and there are urgent conversations under way the moment, the pressures on the borders between libya, tunisia, and libya and egypt. a lot of it is margaret workers from geneva indeed returning to their countries. as a said in my statement, the secretary of state for international development will

be visiting the region soon and we're sending technical experts to advisor but what is necessary. it is a real job for the european union to work together and make sure that this does not turn into a refugee crisis. >> i would like to think the prime minister and colleagues who made no fewer than 53 ventures on the statement. we're grateful to the colleagues. point of order. i will concede that. >> as this event comes to a close, the undersecretary for humanitarian affairs and emergency relief coordinator is expected to hold a briefing on the humanitarian situation in libya. we plan to have that live on c- span at noon eastern. we will bring in remarks earlier today from secretary of state hillary clinton. she calls for the world to pressure muammar gaddafi to step down during a speech to the u.s. council meeting in geneva. remarks shortly after noon eastern on c-span. until then, a look at federal spending for the rest of this year from this morning's

"washington journal." host: terence samuel is here to talk about congress returning and if they will keep the government from shutting down. from where you have been reporting, is that going to happen? or are people packing their desks? guest: it looks like a done deal. the potential for a government shutdown looked inevitable at one point. in reality it seems that no one thought that it would happen and over the last week, particularly starting friday, essentially by sunday democrats called and we

could be back to the same problem in a few weeks. host: take us back to the problem from friday and work us through the weekend. what does the announcement mean? guest: coming into last week you essentially had house republican proposals to cut $61 billion. in the middle of the week democrats were saying that that could not be workable. friday, republicans said that they would do 82 weeks continuing resolution. but it must include -- over that period. looking at what they have proposed in the middle of the week, as a result you had

senator conrad on sunday saying that that was acceptable to him how the democratic congress works the senator reid talks to every senator going on television on sunday. that was not just senator conrad talking for himself. i think that we will see a deal this week. host: also talking on sunday was chris van pollan. he was talking about congress and whether we will be able to avoid a deficit. this is what we had -- what he had to say. >> we are very focused on avoiding a shut down. it appears to be the case for now. of month's republican leadership and democrats in congress. -- amongst republican leadership and democrats in congress. there is a lot of pressure from

new republicans in the house to have their way or shut down the government, if that is the consequence. there remains a real danger that it will do that. that cooler heads will not prevail at the end of the day. host: will they be able to get this done in two weeks? orpen have they kicked the can down the road for a couple of -- or have they kick the can down the road for a couple of weeks? guest: there is clearly a willingness on both sides to have a republican shut down. republicans are clearly scarred from the 1995-1996 shut down, where they took a bath. everyone is saying that things are not the same and that this is different. which is true. senate democrats have a lot of

political exposure here. 23 members up for election with 10 republicans. i think that we see that it has been called over and over again. i think it is a game of chicken and on either side there are political consequences to what people see as the government's inability to function on even the smallest things. shut down the government, i think that people are shaking their heads and walking away. i do not think that anyone wants to deal with those consequences. host: house republicans attempted a conference call on friday. this is what rep. eric cantor had to say. we will listen and get your response. >> yesterday there was a report that democrats might be willing to break and join us in cutting spending.

an indicator that we might be moving in the right direction and a testament to the changing culture in washington. how rogers and his appropriations committee are hard at work. they will post results later this afternoon. the two big messages being unveiled are the $4 million in spending cuts, comprise the determination reductions, and reductions from the president obama fiscal year 2012 budget requests. funding that was locked into place that they have sworn off following the leadership of house republicans. host: terence samuel, your thoughts?

guest: house republicans have to make the of this promise to cut spending. in some ways they have a tougher sell about how much a compromise. then you hear eric cantor saying that we need democrats to break and support some of this spending. he is not just playing partisan politics. he needs help from democrats to sell some of the cuts to the very large republican majority in the house. tea party-inspired republicans are not saying when to this idea of compromise -- saying when -- sanguine to this idea of compromise. i think that what you are looking at is eventually one

side or the other is not going to be able to live with what the other side is suggesting. that is where you will see compromise. i think that the president in the white house so far has remained above the fray but some point they will have to engage. it will not necessarily be two weeks or three weeks from now, even months, b. host: here to make us sense of the returning congress this week, terence samuel, author of "the upper house." if you would like to get involved in our conversation, for democrats, 202-737-0002. for republicans, 202-737-0001. for independents, 202-628-0205.

you can also send us messages through e-mail and prepare -- twitter. our first call comes from melinda in texas. democratic line. caller: i am calling in regards to the compromise and that republicans have with democrats. this is about the fact that bill clinton had a really good administration. republicans are not going to want another democrat dennis successful in the demonstration. i find it strange that everything that they have is directed to the working poor. right here in texas, we pay lot. i am proud to be a citizen.

soldiers go on to fight in our wars. thank you to the tea party, republicans, and hypocrites. we are taking out the proposal on the backs of the working poor. guest: i think that the political arguments that over late this debate will become increasingly -- republicans are trying to address promises that were made during the last campaign and over the last two years. as we here in washington, everything is about the next election. but you have seen from republicans in terms of cuts on spending and deficit reduction, it may not be in tune with what the american people want.

democrats were so focused on health care when people talk about jobs, democrats are betting that republicans might be doing the same thing but spending reduction. host: ill., independent line, libya. caller: thank you. i am going to prize a couple of features. a timely historian identified this method of self destruction. the party that was once in power refuses to give up control. through the process of destruction or not cooperating, there is entering into different groups, and one month of seven

ingredients -- the ultimate ingredients -- the barbarians coming into power. i read debt for about one year and half. -- i read that for one year and a half. i thought that the methods of mitch mcconnell were methodical, based on this process already identified by arnold tonguebee. do not recognize this process as intentional the president lost his opportunity to identify this process and show it for what it was. i hope you will follow through

and that c-span will have some sort of program to build on this identification. i would appreciate that. host: she is given us a lot of stuff to tchew on. guest: you are hearing from her what most americans say in this debate, are they just playing political games in congress? when we get into some of these debates about whether the government should shutdown over a few cuts here or there, the larger question is why can't congress to stop pushing appropriations bills every year? in some ways, i think we have seen the government that is supposed to legislate and govern the country become a kind of

reflective of this ideological divide in the country. more and more, that is what it is reflective of instead of doing the people's work. host: there is a cover story and the title is "ghosts of shutdowns past." it says the nation is engaged in a shooting war in iraq and afghanistan. guest: what the we are seeing

here is clearly the compunction at to make comparisons between 2011 and 1995. republicans like to say it is completely different. the government is not going to shut down and even if it does, it's not christmas time. you go back to the 1995 shutdown which was december 16 through january 6. and 14, actually. i think nobody knows exactly how this plays out. that, i think, is what is driving the game of chicken. people are not sure how the political consequences will flow from this. and so, even though everybody -- some people think republicans will not do it because they are afraid of a repeat of 1995. democrats will not do it because they have some stake in this in a different way because they control the senate.

23 democrats up for reelection next year. >> it is not like yogi berra would have us believe it is deja vu all over again. may guest: be if you need a passport and the government shutdown it would feel like deja vu. host: you are on the line from oklahoma. caller: it is kind of a double- edged sword for us as republicans because we voted in the election for these republican congressman because we were concerned about spending and we were concerned. there's no money left. but we don't want the government to shut down, but we did not vote for these guys to reach across the aisle. we voted for them to cut the spending and get it under control. i don't know where people think this money is going to come from if we don't cut it. thanks for having me. host: who's your congressman? >> john sullivan. host: have you been pleased with

his performance so far? caller: i have. host: what was one of the key items that made you vote for him? caller: he campaigned for cuts in spending. that was one of his biggest campaign items. host: if he turns on that promise in two years, would you vote for him? caller: i think i would be disappointed, but i would vote for him. a government set down, we've been through it before. none of us want that. after a compromise with the democrats sometimes, but i don't see where they think the money is coming from. we are out of money. host: thanks. terence samuels, go ahead. guest: it's a political dilemma that republicans face. you cannot campaign on an issue and then win and have a chance to govern and suddenly it is more complicated than the

singular issue. what you have is how to keep your promise and not seem destructive and overly determined to keep the promise so that the consequences seem bad for the country? host: ken on the democrat line. caller: good monica. i will try to be quick about this. i wish there was the republicans over the house and the senate so that they could do this shutdown and we could see how it turns out. i think this hold the party thing and the shuow