and the impact of budget cuts on teachers. later, sheila krumholz, the executive director for the center for responsive politics, identifies the groups and individuals donating and spurring political advertising around the country. "washington journal" is next. ." host: good morning. the fighting continues between libyan rebels and forces loyal to muammar gaddafi. forces that support gaddafi are moving in the areas outside of the capital city of tripoli, the gaddafi stronghold could be a pivotal background as the fighting continues. a state department says americans should stay out of yemen and leave if they are already there.

the president, in washington this week, congress back in session. we want to focus on education. a couple of stories from newspapers around the country -- specifically whether it is the federal, state, and local governments -- who is best to educate your kids? our lines are live for democrats, republicans, independents. we also have twitter, you can send us twitter comments. michael morris says -- moore says " a sleeping giant" is awake. public-school employees and public workers are battling wisconsin gov. scott walker. we will have more with randi

weingarten, the president of the american federation of teachers. from the detroit free press, " when test scores do not add up." the question is whether or not there is cheating going on in detroit's public schools. "big bucks at risk -- counties and states over how to teach." officials have been sparring with increased intensity over to as the best ideas for educating students -- over who has the best ideas for educating students.

that is our question -- who is best to teach your children? should it be the federal government, the department of education, state, local -- who is best in your opinion? jerry from columbus, ohio. caller: thank you for taking my call. i went to school in the 30's and '40's. i am in my 80's right now. the trouble with the public is that they did not realize it takes four years of college to get a teaching degree. in michigan, you have to get a master's degree. they do not tell you that the teachers, nationwide, make $55,000 per year. in wisconsin, they are only making $48,000 per year. that is not a great salary for

somebody with a four-year education. they do not get done at 3:00, 3:15. i have talked to a friend of mine whose wife will be retiring from teaching this year. she spends a couple of hours every night working, marking papers, so forth. let's educate the people. too many people take what george bernard shaw said that those who cannot do -- can, do, those who cannot, teach. do something on that university of maryland study on fox, if you could. "who this morning's story, knows best how to educate your kids?" matt is joining us from takoma park, maryland. caller: i am an english teacher

in montgomery county. i just switched professions. what is amazing to me is how -- all of this scrutiny in the way the tests are driving education, to the point where my students are taking their tests every quarter, in addition to final exams, in addition to being ready to take ap tests and every kind of test. it is kind of squeezing out the time we have and the classroom to talk about things that i loved from all of my teachers that i remember. there isleft -- or there is not the same space left that there should be. host: can ask a couple of questions? congress is going to look at leave no job behind, which was put in place by president bush

in 2003 -- no child behind, which was put in place by president bush in 2003. you have state and local jurisdictions. in all of this, who is best for you as a teacher in montgomery county, md.. -- maryland? caller: you say, who is best for me? host: yes. caller: i am not opposed to standards, but i feel that the standard being applied to teachers -- in high school, it is one thing. it is even worse in middle school. the way the no child left behind legislation is set up, it is a system of demotivation. every school was under threat or fear of not being able to meet

this. it is a complicated mathematical system. students are not being judged on just one particular test. i'm not opposed to them being involved, funding, having a say in the quality of education. whether it is the school itself or the county or the state, the point is that, because of all of this funding in these thattions, it's the money besides the sort of quality or tone or kind of education that is being delivered in the classroom. it is essentially a distraction. all of these budget cuts -- i was tired two years ago. last year, i was involuntarily transferred. there was the same threat this year. i am sure -- it in a week.

i would get a notice from my school that says that i have to find a school somewhere else. i have been trying to establish myself at the school and build the report with my students -- rapport with my students. this takes attention away from the students. host: we appreciate your time. next to steven from wisconsin. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. i grew up and went to school in the '50s and '60s. we sent men to the moon at that time. in the 1970's, the late-1970's, the federal government took over the schools. we were no. 1 in math and science in the world. now, we're towards the bottom.

the fed is doing a terrible job. also, i see every day the stuff that is happening in madison. there is the wagner act for 1935 that says that public or government unions do not have the right for, uh -- what do you want to call it? -- the right to public particle -- to collective bargaining. but we see this happening every day. who comes to madison? people that do not know the law or care about that. host: thank you for your call. let's go back to this piece in the "examiner." fairfax county school officials say it would cost $18 million to $24 million in stopping alone

-- the battle is back and forth between what the commonwealth of virginia requires the school districts to do and what some of the school districts themselves want to do. there is the question of cheating when test scores do not add up.

we have a line set aside for parents and teachers. craig is joining us from west chester, pennsylvania. good morning. go ahead. caller: i would sit at the local government -- say that the local government are the best people to educate our children. we deal with so many tests in the state of pennsylvania that we are barely able to provide our students the opportunity to get through the curriculum that has already been designed with in our school district. we have students taking ap exams. we have a number of local assessments being given to our students. i feel strongly that the local government, the educators within the district are the best- equipped to make the decision that are best for our students. much is driven by the federal

government and the state government. with these entities getting involved, it makes it very difficult. some of our teachers are losing their creativity because they are teaching to the tests at times. i believe this is an unfortunate thing. host: protesters support teachers and state workers. the protesters are preparing for the third week of demonstrations between gov. stock -- gov. scott walker and those who are opposed to the issue of collective bargaining. john from virginia, good morning. caller: i do a lot substitute teaching in public schools here. i see so much in the area of discipline problems. so much time, money, resources are spent on discipline. i would like to see the

responsibility go back to parents. the more choice you can give parents, i think that is a better way to go, whether it be more online education or more private schools. host: thank you for your call. next, robert in houston, texas. good morning. caller: i would like to see cameras in the classrooms, so that students, when they get home, if they miss something, they can log back on and view the class. the parents can see how teachers are handling discipline. there is a discipline problem. we can tell then who is causing

the problem. teachers could learn from watching other teachers. so on and so forth. i know that it sounds awful intrusive, but take care centers have had that for quite some time -- the day care centers have had that for quite some time. the mother can check in on her child to be sure they are being handled properly. it would be a good idea to let least try this as a pilot program someplace to see how it would work. i know, teachers -- as a teacher, they would probably feel encroach upon -- encroached upon. but it might advance our educational system quicker than anything else we might do. host: in "the weekly standard"

-- the president in his weekly address talked about the budget cuts, sounding the pledge for bipartisanship when it comes to an agreement between the democrats and republicans on the spending plan. >> we need to come together, democrats and republicans, around a long-term budget that sacrifices wasteful spending without sacrificing the jobs- creating investments in our future. my administration has put forward cuts that meet republicans halfway. i am prepared to do more, but we will only finish the job together, by sitting at the table, working out our differences, and finding common ground.

that is why i have asked vice president biden and members of congress to meet on this going forward. we cannot use this as cover to do away with things we dislike politically. it cannot be about how much we cut. it also has to be about how we cut and how we invest. host: looking at just one snapshot of how maryland could be impacted by this $60 billion in budget cuts.

our question is "who is best to educate your kids?" is that the federal government, state government, local government, parents? kimberly, please, go ahead. [low and indistinct chatter] -- caller: in nevada, we need to have federal intervention immediately. the egypt scenario that just happened where the people overturned the 30-year government -- basic terrorism going on in other countries is going on in nevada in t-- with

our children. the current to law -- current law provides for the following. they are being cloaked -- we're following the nevada department of education, in compliance with -- what is not being seen in our state is how the area outside of -- south of the capital of the carson city, nevada. it is the most poorly-funded -- what they are doing here, according to the statute, which provides that any department

that provides child welfare services -- it is all interstate, into account the, intertwined -- inter-county, intertwined. there is corruption. it is affecting behavior in schools. what we have implemented here -- sorry, i want to quote this right. the individualized education programs -- that is a federally- mandated regulation. however, here in nevada, they have altered the statute to a mirror image of the federal statutes, but it now states, an

agency which provides job welfare services is required to provide services for children in custody of an agency. when our children are in school, they are in custody of the agency. it is language specific to nevada and our statutes. los >> thank you for sharing your story from carson city -- host: thank you for sharing your story from carson city. congress could end up funding the government in two-week increments to avoid a shutdown because lawmakers cannot agree on a long-term budget plan.

harold rogers is going to be our guest on "newsmakers." it airs at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern time. here's a preview of that interview. >> you have put out a cr that would cut out about $6.5 billion from current spending levels. if you split the difference between your $60 billion and his, that puts you at your initial $35 billion cr. do you think that would pass the house? >> no. i do not think so. what they have put out is one thing. what they can pass and put on the conference table is another thing. i want to see what they put on the conference table. i do not think it will be what they said they are trying to do.

>> as you know, some of your members wanted to have more cuts than $61 billion. in the negotiation with democrats, that number will likely have to come down. do you believe you can get a bill off the floor that has less than that level of cuts? if not, what is this negotiation really going to accomplish? >> i hate to be repetitive. i want to see what the senate actually offers. we have not seen that yet. i think the senate has heard the same voice we heard on election day -- cut spending. host: harold rogers is the chairman of the house appropriations committee. he is our guest on "newsmakers," after "washington journal," at 10:00 a.m., 6:00 p.m. eastern time. which jurisdiction has the best, in terms of overall say --

should it be local districts and communities? should it be the state government? should it be the federal government? tom from cape cod, mass.. caller: i would urge everyone to home school because you will get a much better education overall. in schools across the nation, there is a great deal of problems with lack of discipline in the classroom, inclusion has created a lot of problems in our area. what has happened is, someone who has educated in the 1920's, 1930's, 1940's, 1950's, who had an eighth grade education and was in a little one-room red school house have the equivalent, in my opinion, a high-school or even a master's degree of education today. no one, really, is learning anything. if you look at what the

international scores are, i believe that the united states is down 23rd or 24th in math. some children cannot read at eighth grade level in the 10th grade, 12th grade. very uneducated people cannot write well. they cannot speak with eloquence. money is not the answer. as you know, the district of columbia has the highest rate per capita per student and they have the lowest scores and the nation, i do believe. it is not money. it is quality in the classroom, paying attention, having discipline. we just do not have that anymore. it is just total chaos. i know a lot of teachers who get paid very well. some make it $72,000 for 180 days, plus they get a $12,000 health benefit. that equals about $144 per day.

host: "the new york times" best seller list. doldrums' felt is featured on our web site -- donald rum rumsfeld is featured on our website at booktv.org. those are some of the books on the new york times best-seller list. our twitter page is down. we apologize. if we get it up and running, we will get your comments via twitter. or do it the old-fashioned way and give us a call. lena from baltimore.

caller: good morning. host: ahead with your comments -- go ahead with your comments. caller: i would like to comment on the importance of all of the federal, state, and local governments. i do not see any one of them as being the be all and end all. i think they all have important roles to play. host: thank you for your call. andrea from attenborough, massachusetts. caller: first, i would like to say that school lunches are outdated. look into them. my son got highly educated between the school and between our family teaching him at home, especially.

i had to sit down daily with him. he wanted that. he is national honor society, straight a's. he had a lot of problems at home. we had a lot of things going, but he pushed himself. he is teaching currently in houston. he is a master sergeant. he keeps -- teaches 500 men and women. it took the school and us at home to bring back through. you have to stay with the children, if you can possibly do it. be there, somebody appear do not leave an empty house for these children to go home to -- be there, somebody. do not leave an empty house for these children to go home to. host: thank you or call -- for your call. president obama and his team are

moving swiftly to dive into the business of winning reelection. meanwhile, the front page of "the new york times" -- a piece on mitt romney. he has put his focus on 2012. the peace points out that, -- piece points out that mr. romney has taken a different risk than last time. he is building allies among

republicans and going of money from his collection -- from his political action committee. this story points out that he is trying to present a more relaxed image to combat the impression that he is not approachable. next is brent joining us from southbridge, massachusetts. the question is, who should have jurisdiction in teaching your kids? good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. there are difficulties at all of those levels. we need to be realistic about that. on the local level, the people who take charge locally, you have the danger of nepotism and cronyism -- people getting jobs in the school system that really should not over others who are more qualified. then, as you get farther away, like, from the state level and to the federal level, you get

laws passed which have no relationship at all, perhaps, to the people you are teaching -- people in front of you. i taught for 31 years. i have seen all kinds of these regulations. some of them simply do not apply, but you better make sure you go through all the hoops and fill out all the papers and fill out all the forms. everyone -- each student is eligible to have a different type of teaching, and you might have 30 -- if you have students -- 30 students in the class, each one of them could have an individual education program, and you have to meet each one of those needs. those are federal and state requirements. it becomes impossible to teach. people say teachers -- like the fellow from massachusetts who called a while ago -- teachers teach 180 days.

that is baloney. teachers do not get a whole summer off. to say that is to show total ignorance of the education -- public education today in the united states. host: crosses for the call. frank luntz will be joining us later on -- thank you for the call. frank luntz will be joining us later on. he is out with a new book. later, the president of the american federation of teachers will be joining us from new york. "unimpressed and angry as ever." more on the ongoing budget battle and the role of the tea party in the midterm elections last year. now in the budget debate this

year. joy from casa grande, arizona. welcome to the conversation. caller: good morning. my personal philosophy is that the teachers are -- the best teachers are in local communities. my parents were teachers. there were also missionaries to mexico. i went to school in mexico. down there, the school day starts at 8:00 a.m. and doesn't end until 6:00 p.m. if we went back to the basics of teaching the three r's, maybe we could come back in the are scores in math and reading -- in our scores in math and reading. host: the member of the house of representatives texts -- talks about budget cuts. >> soon, we're going to cut

mandatory wasteful spending programs, not just in obama care, but also in the dog-franc -- dodd-frank bill. we also have our eye on the epa regulations that are creating higher gas prices. it is not just the overreaching that has to stop. it is the overspending, which many economists agree is a barrier to job creation. it has been dusted of weeks since the house passed -- just a few weeks since the house passed h.r. 1. the democrats who run the senate have not allowed a vote on this bill or any other bill that would cut spending and keep the government running long-term. you may have heard president obama say that we need to make sure we are living within our means. he is right about that.

unfortunately, his budget does not match his words. it continues out of control spending. adds to our $14 trillion debt. it adds to the uncertainty that makes it harder to create jobs. maintained the status quo and refusing to offer a credible plan -- maintaining the status quo and refusing to offer a credible plan is unacceptable and inexcusable. host: represented of dianne black of tennessee -- representative diane black of tennessee. this is from "the washington examiner." "who knows best how to educate your kids?" john from britain 10, -- bradenton, florida. caller: thank you for taking my call.

i love your show. i just wish it was on later. i really believe that teachers are the most qualified to establish their own curriculum. i have been in the brokerage business, i have had a brokerage firm for 31 years. it.dknow, i'm burnt out on i have been wanting to be a history teacher for a long time. i just feel that the problem is that they are not letting teachers teach from the heart and from their experience. i have a good friend of mine that is a history teacher, one of the best in the county. he has been there for 35 years. he is retiring. i talk to him for about an hour about this -- about leaving my career and teaching history or economics. he says, do not do it. they do not let you teach from the heart. they do not let you teach from your own experience. all you are doing today is

teaching to pass a test. i have five daughters who are bored with school. they are just totally bored with it. all they are doing is teaching you to pass a test. that is robbing a lot of kids from life experiences from people who really want to be there for them and teach them the basics of life and not just to pass a test. i appreciated. thank you. host: good luck with your decision. some of the demonstrators both pro and anti-gaddafi in tripoli and some port cities in libya. john from new hampshire is

joining us. who is best to educate your children? good morning. caller: i have a couple of quick comments i want to make. first, we constantly blame the parents or the teachers. the biggest thing we have is -- the whole education system was successful in the 1950's, 1960's, 1970's and 1980's. we need to look up the whole infrastructure -- at the whole infrastructure. we talk about how much money we spend on teaching our kids, but how do we get the most effective teaching for each child? the whole infrastructure of teaching needs to change. it is not the teachers' fault. they deserve everything they get and so forth. i agree with my friend from florida. he hit the nail on the head.

new teachers, new ideas -- it is crucial. host: thank you for your call. in "the new york times," " the -- "the $110 billion question."

next is a student from grand rapids, mich., calvin is joining us. caller: good morning. i have a few prospects as to who is best to educate our kids. from the local point of view, i see that the culture -- the group mentality -- the community has an important value in the early development and everything like that, but, at the state level, i noticed that some cities have sister cities around the world. what if we took that to another perspective as to add a sister school, international schools,

giving a better outlook towards more of an international-type of communication through our world than just stuck to our home towns that we grew up in? at the federal level, really, i do not know. i do not have much to say at the federal level. host: thanks, calvin, for the suggestion. we're back up on twitter. we can take your tweets. richard is joining us from south bend, indiana. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i am a retired engineer. after i retired, i took up teaching as a substitute teacher

in the local area. the one observation i made in my three years as a substitute teacher is the behavior problems that i encountered in the classrooms by the teachers, which take away their ability to teach. the main thing that i came back with, from my experiences as a substitute, is that the parental accountability for their children is just not there. host: ok. richard, thanks for the call. from "the examiner." one of our viewer says, if you mean choices, parents have been provided, i say give us both public education and private. out twti -- our twitter page is

twitter.com/cspan. caller: i have two things. i would like to tell a story about my son and then make a comment, i i may. host: certainly. go ahead. caller: my son had learning problems. he was in an, what they call, ipi. i had him privately tutored. he learned to read well. he had to have one-on-one attention. we moved to a state where they kept kids back. they did not have any agenda for the kids. they just had to get through school and do the best they could. we were sitting at the dinner table one night and my son said to one of my other sons, hey, there is a kid in my class who looks like he is about 16 years

old. he has a full beard. my other son said, he is. he stayed back four times. my son said, holy cow. i better learn my long division. he went on to earn awards and he could have graduated after year earlier because he decided to apply himself -- half a year earlier, because he decided to apply himself. i think schooling should be done mostly at local level, and the state should help the towns that have less income. there does have to be some federal oversight. host: thank you for the call. one viewer says that -- dr. frank luntz will be joining

us in just a couple of minutes. this is his newest book -- "win -- the principles that take your business from ordinary to extraordinary." we will talk about the 2012 presidential race and the republican field. next is beverly from south hills, mich. caller: i am a retired teacher from detroit. the problem is the federal government. once the federal government puts their mandates on the state'ss, the educational system fails. we have a lot of children in special education. education is supposed to promote use so that you can be a citizen -- a productive citizen. when you have to another handicapped that are in school from the time they are in preschool until they're 25, 26, it drains the state. you have to have specialized teachers. the children will not be

productive at the end of their education. the federal government needs to get out of education and let the states handle it so that children can be productive. they are not being productive the way the federal government is going. host: thank you for your call and your comment. we are talking about -- will be talking about politics and the message with frank luntz, who will be back here at the table to take your calls. yesterday, and there was a re- enactment of abraham lincoln's inauguration. saturday, it took place in the auditorium at the u.s. capitol. sam waterton read a speech that ran about 45 minutes. here is an excerpt.

>> you can have no conflict without being yourselves, the aggressors. you have no oath registered in haven't to destroy the government -- heaven to destroy the government, whil i sh -- while i shall have the most solemn one to preserve, protect, and defend it. i am loathe to close. we are not enemies, but friends. we must not be enemies. though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. the mystic chords of memory

stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone, all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the union when again touched , as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature. [applause] host: the words of abraham lincoln as written by -- read by actor sam waterston as part of the anniversary commemorating lincoln's swearing-in. when we come back, frank luntz,

the author of "win -- the principles that take your business from ordinary to extraordinary," also an expert on the message and messengers. we will talk about their rebook and -- the republican field. with that, nancy calo. >> these and will reopen the five tv network talk shows. topics include funding the federal government, but the cuts, and the u.s. response to the situation in libya -- budget cuts, and u.s. response to the situation in libya. we begin with "meet the press." at 1:00 p.m., abc boss "this week." -- abc's "this week." fox news sunday begins rearing at 2:00 p.m. eastern. the host will welcome the -- a member of the westboro baptist

church and will also have jeb hensarling. "state of the union" is next. then at 4:00 p.m., mitch mcconnell and john kerry he. the five network tv talk shows are brought to you as a public service. re-airs begin at noon with "meet the press." 4:00 p.m., "face the nation." listen on xm satellite radio channel 132 or online at c-

spanradio.org. >> mit american history professor pauline mayer -- maier will be on "indepth" later today. she has written several books. join our conversation. today at noon eastern on c- span2. >> i find more and more the behavior of professional sports owners to be unseemly in the sense that they want hundreds of millions of dollars from their communities, and yet they do not really participate in the problems of those communities. >> tonight on "q&a," best- selling author and "the washington post" author, sally

jenkins. "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome back frank luntz, who we have seen on the fox news channel. he is the author of "win -- the principles that take your business from ordinary to extraordinary." welcome back to be at c-span -- to c-span. guest: it is great to be a c- span. i am glad you are the one here. host: we have the third week of demonstrations going on. the issue is collective bargaining. how is the governor performing? guest: when you call a collective bargaining rights, the public wants to protect it. when you speak about the right of individuals to reject or join a union, then he is winning and the union is losing. this is one of those where how

you frame it, the context, determines who wins and loses in the court of public opinion, and why words matter so much. when we get a phone calls, whatever you take, you will hear their context, their framing. in the end, the person who frames it wins the debate. host: let me ask you about governor chris christie. sarah palin took a swipe at him. i do not know if you heard what she said, but how is he doing? host: i do not know of anyone who has had the kind of success gov. christie has had in five years. he does not sound like a politician. he is a big guy. his language is big and powerful. it is real and down to earth. you may really dislike him, but you love to listen to it in. he is compelling because he is so direct in the words that he

uses to communicate. it is both the style and substance. he may say that he is not running for office, but if you put them in the presidential debates, -- him in the presidential debates, wow. host: let me share with you some of these comments that were focusing on some of the missteps of newt gingrich and mike huckabee. mike huckabee was going after obama, saying he grew up in kenya. of course, he grew up in indonesia. then there was the non- announcement from the gingrich -- newt gingrich. every single candidate will make a mistake from time to time, no matter how good you are. i have looked at iowa voters and

new hampshire voters, who are very different. language plays differently in those two. they're looking for someone who says what they mean and means what they say. i am using these words and a very measured way. i want to provide you with the exact language that the american people want to hear. the democratic line will not like the republican words. the republican line will not let the democratic words. "mean what you say" is the most important phrase for any presidential candidate. host: he says there are, at most --

guest: that is a very -- george will has always been the most brilliant political writer. we both went to oxford. i have that in common with him. i pay attention to what he says, because he has a very keen understanding and the way that he expresses himself as a powerful. i am not sure that i agree with his conclusion, but i always pay attention to him. host: your book "win -- the principles that take your business from ordinary to extraordinary." we will show some of the excerpts in a moment. what is the message? guest: your success in life is only limited by your ability to communicate your boss, family, friends and colleagues.

it is only limited by the drive -- there is nothing you cannot accomplish if you know the right words to use and you have the right attributes, the right character traits of some of the most successful winners. i interviewed almost three dozen people on the forbes' 400 richest american list. i interviewed ceo's. i interviewed people like larry bird, david stern -- all winners in their various fields. i tried to encapsulate the language that works, the attributes that work, the intent that works. i am not doing another book. this is everything i have done put into one text. host: winners don't preach, they persuade.

in terms of political candidates, who would you put in this category? guest: what matters is not what you say. it is what people here. there are too many people in washington and who call into this show who want to be heard, but they are not thinking about the impact to their words have on others. chris christie best epitomizes this of all politicians today, he is the one who says he is not running. he encapsulates the most attributes of winning and the best language of winning. host: you also write that americans have had their patience stretched to the breaking point. guest: i am not convinced that they are doing that. this is where i give credit to paul ryan on the pop -- paul

ryan on the republican side for being responsive to what voters ask them to do -- asked them to do. politicians to look you straight in the eye and tell you, this is what you told me to do, this is what i am doing -- they are the ones who are most effective. those who come to washington and ignore what the public is asking of them do so to their own detriment. barack obama's did of the union speech, -- state of the union speech -- i would tell you, from a linguistic standpoint, was very effective. he used words and phrases that came from the public. if you look at the details, that started to break down. host: he is not talking about spending, he is talking about investment. guest: when he says investment,

everybody else hears "spending." when i hear the word "comprehensive," what do you think of? host: health care. guest: there is another one -- immigration. part of the reason i wrote "win" is to update the public on what works best in 2011. people watching this show engage in public -- political debate every day. i am sure when you're out in public people ask you wu think. would you like to win those debates? would you like to influence the way people think? that is what this book is all about -- not just to influence the debate, but to win the debate. host: mitt romney spoke in new hampshire yesterday, beginning to ramp up his candidacy.

guest: and glad that it was a strip mall. i was waiting for the word that came after strip. what is interesting about romney, his communication, that when you ask people about the substance, he won the debate. when you ask about the style, he did not. what he is trying to do now is become more familiar, trying to use is more casual attributes, which you really is in private life, but you do not see it in public. he is trying to demonstrate it is not the brain that he has, but also the heart.

in 2012, you do not win unless you demonstrate your intellectual capability as well as year end that the -- empathy. host: some say this. guest: the first is ridiculous at this point. the people who vote on religion is so small that it is measurable and the survey. even the republican primary. and the latter point. it is more of a challenge. what this health care portend in massachusetts, and we will not know that until the end of the year. obama was not doing that to give him a shout out, he was giving him a smack down. host: you can see the telephone numbers. you can also send us a tweaket.

what is your handle? guest: my office does it for me. i have an issue with so few characters. when i want to communicate, and i have done it here, i have tried to offer viewers very specific recommendations. nobody cares what i have to say. no one cares that i am taking a train from washington, d.c. upton york. -- up to new york. i would rather focus on substantial communication in a hundred words. host: that was the title of the book. welcome to the conversation, john. caller: the title of the book says it all. randi weingarten -- "win," it does not matter if you tell the truth, or your the ventriloquist

for a lot of republican politicians staying on message. this guy is the modern-day joseph burbles. -- goebbels. guest: i hate that. i am jewish, and to be referred to as a nazi, that is the type of uncivil discourse that americans reject. some people do it in the blog pose, but 99% of americans not only would reject that, but they stop listening. that gentleman could have made a very strong point, but by referring me today nazi, that kills everything. and if i may, there may be a camera that can get this, i do want to follow up on this, number nine. these are the nine necessities of winning, and the most important is the last one, number nine, principles. if you have no principles, it

does not matter what language you use. if you have no principles, the words will fall on deaf ears. people want to know who you are, not just what you say. if you are inconsistent, if you are hypocritical, if you are bigoted, if you use of offensive language like that phone caller just did, all the other language goes out the vote window. no. 9 is essential. persuasion -- you cannot persuade people by insulting them. or by yelling at them. to persuade by bringing them to you, not the type of language that cable television and radio programs too often promote. it invites people to come to you. and the second one there, perfection -- always trying to improve. it is not good enough to have language that is effective. every month, i am testing

myself, challenging myself, are there better words to use, of better visual. you've got an american capital behind you in the shot. host: and it is a live shot. guest: i could jump out his window and it would really hurt. it is a real window. host: you would have to jump through three windows. guest: the number one source of pride -- the most powerful visual is the statue of liberty at daybreak. that shows pride, patriotism, and opportunity. a new day, a new beginning, a new dawn. if you want to communicate and win, you have to understand people's aspirations and hopes, not just their peers. you have to appeal to them and

help them, and keep your right of center, help them help themselves. host: from twitter -- guest: i have a wonderful home with the varied jewish mother and father, and i realize that in early age i had to use the right words to get what i wanted. i have learned, and one of the key attributes of winners, i keep throwing charted you, because if you do not want to buy the book, you can get it for free but you have to write this down. knowing the right question to ask is most important of successful people. i will look to my mom and say, how far as the earth from the sun? the response would be, how far do you think it is? such a jewish response. c'mon, i just ask you a

question. she said, though look it up. she would say, go look it up. that is the power of words and phrases. ross perot in 1992, newt gingrich in the contract with america in 1994 the company focused on the words and the power of language. oxford university, for my ph.d. in philosophy, which i hate it. and focus groups on msnbc and in thoughts of for the last quarter years. host: another from twitter, and his potential bid for the white house. guest: you have to have a legitimate bid. might blumberg could make a bid for the white house because he has had a greater impact than anyone else than probably bill gates. donald trump is a television

personality. mike bloomberg is a statement. i would assess bloomberg to be credible. host: from iowa. caller: i have one question, and now it is too. i am from iowa. i live in steve king's district. so i walk among a lot of misinform the republicans in my daily life. had you find that many -- they were surprised to find out that the president of united states was not a muslim. do you believe that you should of said something? guest: the voters that colin from iowa and new hampshire, you

are gold. and particularly at this point in the election cycle. i will be in iowa tomorrow for a stake in freedom and then. temple in the an newt gingrich tomorrow night live on c-span. watch it on c-span. guest: i would like to be there live. is not my job to correct. if i correct -- it is my job to challenge and illustrate public opinion. it is not my job in that role to shape it. you should in knowledge that sean and if he was the host when that focus group was pulled. hannity did inform them that they were misinformed. you get a chance to hear from the american people in an unfettered way, to hear the back-and-forth. that is why this show is so important, and c-span, because people have the chance to

interact in a very powerful way. we have a lot of misinformed people there. that is the way that things were. it appeared on "meet the press," and more people saw my focus group there than anyone i have done. host: from colorado. what this shared sacrifice, take to you? guest: what they want to hear is a fact-based conversation. they want the details and the know -- and they want to know how things stand. common sense -- you do not want to hear that word? the rest of americans do. it is one of the most powerful words in the english language right now. they are tired of partisan solutions. what they want our common sense

results. and in terms of shared sacrifice, it means that we are all in this together and you cannot just planned for today. you have to plan for the next generation. i have seen some of the budget numbers. i have gone to the whole budget process when i do what i do. it is frightening. i am glad i am as old as i am. for someone watching this program right now in their 20's, they are not going to see medicare. they will not see social security. these numbers are absolutely dreadful. and that is just on the national level. if you live in california, nevada, illinois, new jersey, wisconsin, and a half-dozen other states, those states are in danger of bankruptcy. and the federal government does not have the money to bail you out. shared sacrifice, we are going to have to do it. host: our next caller is on the republican line.

good morning, james. caller: glad to get through. my idea is relatively simple, but difficult to make this a saint. the economic and social security -- concerns, i do not see those as two groups myself. i am basically a social security -- social says -- social conservative. how can you have a social policy like we have been united states -- in the united states, spend money like crazy, and it basically rewards people for doing the wrong thing? if you look at the statistics for children, the children to grow up from broken homes, four times is likely to drop out of school, five times as likely to do drugs, eight times as likely to go to prison -- all of these things that to social costs, and we have a social policy that

pays people to break up their families. host: can you stay on the line? i want to put on some the table some information and he wants to deal with your point. first of all, americans rank 15 at 37 in math literacy. less than two thirds of high- school graduates are accepted to college every year. one half of all african-american high school students will not graduate. today, only 70% of low-income fourth graders are proficient in reading, 50% below the basic level. in each year, more than 1 million high school seniors fail to graduate. guest: it is a tragedy. it is worse than a tragedy, it is a disgrace. and i was listening before i came on, and i was frustrated with the comments as i am sure people are frustrated with me. but we can agree that the schools are failing our kids.

i was concerned about this, suburban, a couple -- upper- middle class schools that are not encouraging children to reach their highest potential. i'm concerned about the school's not more than 2 miles from this building, where the class sizes are ridiculous, little accountability, you had a,rhea, trying to make that change in washington, d.c. and she gets tossed out. i do not understand parents and grandparents, because you have got the time and capability, you can make a difference. why they are not fighting in demanding that your kids learn more and do more and are fully prepared for the 21st century -- will tell you something. i get 200 reza may -- resumes for every one person that i can hire. they cannot write or speak. how many kids are 18 years old

and they look around when they talk to you? and we accept that? we battle with the politics about what takes place from here. and yet we let all whole generation of kids essentially brought on the vine. host: and from the "detroit free press," when the test scores do not add up. the pressure is so intense, schools are tempted to cheat on standardized tests. guest: you get class sizes up to 60 people. when you're trying to teach a 60-person class on a middle school level, it is impossible. it is a tragedy. host: did you want to follow up, sir? caller: no, he is going along

the same lines that i am. allowed only add that we really have this crazy place in the best thing that some men can do for their families is to abandon their families so that they can qualify for state aid. guest: i like to borrow that charge. this is a perfect example for that. these in the attributes of winners. put it on the screen. james and people listening, values education as an example of how to apply these attributes. the human dimension is the impact on these children. the likelihood of being on welfare, and being unemployed, having children out of wedlock, ending up in prison if we do not educate them effectively. knowing what questions to s, and not making statements but asking rhetorical questions, how can our children captured the american dream when they are being left behind at school?

asked the rhetorical question rather than making a statement. and to see what could exist -- that is where the word imagine comes into play. imagine how much stronger and healthier and more successful our country would be if we give our children the information in the skills they need to learn so that they could be happy, healthy, successful adults. imagine what that would do to our economy. number four, it is not just the statistics but the solutions that truly matter. if we only focus on the statistics, we will not focus on the results. number five, to do more and do it better, that is the essence of rejecting the status quo. it is simply not good enough, and is one of those uniquely american attributes, to appeal to something that is better. and the one that is actually a willingness to try, fail, and do

it again, that is about making a commitment to innovate so that every year, the schools are better than what they were before, and the final one, the ability to connect and communicate. when that gentleman said he was not sure that he could say it succinctly, i cringed. but there should be one sentence or two sentences of the demonstration of the principal, and then the facts, which he did very effectively. you can apply this to any potential predict any political situation or business situation, and now it enables those who do not agree want me to understand the rules of communication. i would argue that there will be less arguments as a result. there's a lot more common ground between me -- us. you know i have relationships with a lot of people that would surprise to viewers back home. in reality, we actually agree on a lot more than we disagree. withost: the main go

presidents. jimmy carter, the only president to see the party switch in the 20th-century and to lose one term after being elected. guest: his communication was very well-received in the beginning. but he was perceived to blame the american people for the failures of america. and the public does not want to be blamed. we expect our leaders to inspire us and to help us aspire to something greater. jimmy carter was, it is our fault, it is our responsibility, and that is the issue of sacrifice that i frankly want people of both political parties -- if you talk about sacrifice, the public is not going to say no. if you talk about shared sacrifice, the public says yes. host: george w. bush in a compassionate conservative campaign. guest: no one believes that

conservatives are compassionate. they are tough and smart on the issues, but compassion? liberals are compassionate. some republicans will complain on me, but it is not believable. do not tell people something that they will not believe. host: with regard to president obama, you say -- the american people believe that he is forcing a partisan divide wider. guest: the labeling is not helpful for you talk about what a person has done. but when you claim your centrist, you have to look to policy not just your language. and there is a greater spread right now between what obama says he is doing and what he is actually doing. host: ronald reagan was a great storyteller. you say in the book that stories are the way that we understand

the world. guest: it is setting the context. for the callers calling in, when you set the context effectively, everything else follows. it comes as a matter of principle, one of the most powerful ways to start your phrase. and the most powerful way -- and i will put in the last chart if i can, the most powerful way to in the statement is -- let's get to work. that is the call to action. you have told me what you're about and what you can do and what i can do. you need the call to action. and that is the best one we have analyzed. host: in texas. caller: i really appreciate the book. the attributes of winning.

i really wonder about the commitment to candor. how important his veracity and the political strategy for republicans as well as democrats? one specific point. in your conversation earlier this morning, when you talked about ronnie, the american people will dismiss the fact that he is up mormon. and then splitters someone brought up your focus group about president obama, and the misconception that he is a muslim, and then you said, it is not my job to correct what the american people think. i'm just curious about strategy. is that more important, to win? is it about veracity or just

winning? guest: it is about being accurate. . reference to candor is brilliant. watch this, steve. you will hear that phrase within the next seven days. someone will say. but my responsibility is to provide you with accurate information that you can use in your day-to-day life, that you can use with your employer or employee, in political debates, that you can use and social interactions. that can provide something accurate. my responsibility in my business and professional life is to be accurate in what i did. when i am on television as a focus group moderator, i am not there to have an argument with them over whether we are increasing or decreasing spending, over whether it is a tax cut or a tax increase, or what someone's religion behavior is. my job is to illustrate what the

american people think, right or wrong. and then it is the responsibility of the host or others in the group to challenge that information. i assure you, ma'am, if i were to put my own beliefs or i were to start correcting people for being wrong, that would change the entire dynamic of those groups and less people would be watching. i am very careful about this. there is a time and a place to engaged in the debate and then a time to step back. host: ellis joins us from odessa, georgia caller: that is of augusta, georgia. i must and men, i love this the to have. when i say something, i mean in. and i expect people to understand that. they are very good, i must

admit. one question i want to rescue. where did fox news get their i mbalance from? when i listen to sean hannity and bill o'reilly, is about as balanced as elephants and a mouse on opposite ends of a seesaw. can you please tell me, and then, they are very careful about the phrase that you use, because you're told, i cannot do this, i cannot say that. guest: first, you could see it. you could visualize it. that is part of effective communication, not just the right words.

they are giving me great ideas. i will sing you a $5 for royalties. that came from roger ailes. it was something he wanted to contrast between fox and the other news networks. what sounds imbalance to one person is different to another. there are people that have lots at the top of all news networks for being the most accurate and being the least bayh's. obviously that gentleman does not agree. the republicans would say that fox is the only fair and balanced. fox from 8:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. is not meant to be fair and balanced. below reilly does let you hear both sides. the same with hannity and gre

ta, but they're not trying to put forward a straightforward, non-biased view in that time period. the news to buy it -- the news side is very precise in what it does. there is such a huge difference between a bill o'reilly and keith olbermann. i used to watch keith because this important know what the other side is thinking as well. he never had republicans on, ever. he trashes their points and never gives them a chance to be heard. host: and he is off the air now. guest: on fox news, on every show you hear an opposing point of view. that is what i expect not just from a news network, but from a news and opinion network. host: and exchange on sarah

palin and bill o'reilly. the story here is this morning, sarah palin to bill o'reilly, do not interrupt. >> we do not change patient benefit. >> i agree. >> and i apologize that up. alaska we have this four-second delay. try to get my point across to you if you interrupt. i'm going to continue to talk on the reform and entitlement programs. guest: i had the chance to do focus groups for the today showed that -- back in the beginning of the 2003 iraqi war. there was a six-second delay, and it was very hard at that time to communicate. i understand. bill o'reilly, it is his approach to the direct and

challenge. i do not think that she was been -- i think her comment was legitimate. i don't think he was trying to give her a hard time. we are so immediate. and i will go to another one of my words -- host: you do all of our work for us. guest: i always wanted a producer. i want the job of the guy behind the camera. no. rate, real time. we expect full information without delay, that anyone who offers is us real-time information, we will respect them because then they allow us to decide. host: and your comment about the opinion block of fox news. : he is part of something that comes before. the show that comes after it, bret baier, is news.

caller: good morning, frank. my name is randy o'neal and i own a small business in virginia. it is a simple concept. it is a mobile facility that travels from school to school with stationary bikes and side that its children as young as three. we use video and music to whip them up about health and education and growing neurons. i have been over to -- have been to over 1000 schools, when i go to new schools, many are put into a basketball court. i show up with 300 square feet, and i can handle 400 children in a six hour school day. recently have went to williamsburg and had 350 kids,

and everyone had a fantastic time, and it was a field trip on the school grounds. it reduce costs. i would like to say that i am a fitness field trip coming you do not leave the campus. we're very wealthy in the state of virginia. but i am stupefied by how many of these administrators are afraid of a little box of bikes that you handle 400 kids. and i am greeted by the children and hired mostly by the parents. guest: what he should have done their -- can you hear me? this to sound like a commercial. frankly, it sounds like a pitch. if you had begun your communication by saying, as a matter principle, the physical well-being of our children is this is important is their intellectual well-being, and how

they grow up physically, their happiness and their health, it is as important as their intellectual capability. that is how you began this, it would been more effective than just going into this is what i do. it is all about the context and saying something that transcends politics and age and society. based on "win," i would change your opening the way. host: this is from "politico." tempo linty said that he would make his announcement within the next 45 days. -- tim pawlenty will make his announcement within the next 45 days. guest: you cannot call him a dark horse because he may burial will succeed. he is a conservative governor in a very liberal state. he was able to cut the budget.

and he is also very midwestern in his values. he does not raise his voice, does not lose his temper, and has the temperament, the perfect temperament of a presidential candidate. voters need to hear a lot more of him. they do not know him yet. i think he will play well. host: we will be live with him tomorrow evening. yonkers, new york with frank luntz. his new book, "win-- the principles that take your business from ordinary to extraordinary." guest: you mentioned the shared sacrifice of americans and also i had a question about the november election, the mandate to cut the deficit. the first thing the republicans did when they got into office was extend the bush tax cuts.

that added $900 billion over the next 10 years to the deficit. where is the shared sacrifice from the top 2%, and how come we do not talk about the bank's and wall street causing the economic crisis that we had in 2008? guest: do not go yet. will jobs be created if you raise taxes on individuals and businesses who up to this point, are the ones hiring people? will jobs be created or lost? i do not believer: that there are a lot of jobs created and 2001 and 2003. guest: the job rate fell to 4% and now what is up around 9%. there were a lot of jobs

created. would you in knowledge that statistically those are the numbers? will you? caller: if we are in such bad shape, where is the sacrifice on the top end? guest: this is my point, going back to "win," kisses i knowledge if there was at 5:00 p.m. show that did not fallen to the news blog, i just told the caller that he needs to in knowledge of the fact that it's -- that shows he is not correct. there is one thing that matters to me in this book, if i may. the most powerful poem, and it is such a great way to begin a sunday morning. just one stands up of that. if you can talk to a crowd and keep your virtue, or talk to teens and not lose the common touch, if neither friends or foes can hurt you, if you can

fill the unforgiving minute with 60 seconds of the distance run, yours is the earth and everything that is in it, and which is more, you will be a man, my son. that is from yet -- but for the kiplinger. -- kipling. these are not empty words are empty recommendation. i will never do another book and so i wanted this to be a statement that language alone does not succeed. it has to be based in character. it has to be based in reality. but even the best character and the most accurate information will fail without effective communication. and i have tried "win to "" a book of effective communication. host: 4 obama, what is the message for the president and

for the republicans? guest: for the president, it has to be, i will still try to inspire you, but i have heard what you said about where we win, and maybe we tried to go too far, the united, we will achieve much more than we will divided. and united, there are no limits to achievement. those of the words of recommend for him. for the republicans if you want change, you have to vote for it. if you want to restore the american dream, you have to vote for those who believe in those principles, who would advocate is policies, and if freedom is still a value that matters to you as it does to most americans, and you have to vote for those people who are promoting freedom, rather than those who would deny it, that would be the republican words. host: frank luntz, as always, thank you for being with this.

many will find garner -- randi weingarten will be with us in just a few minutes. but first, all look at did you around the country from editorial conduct -- cartoonists.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome randi weingarten of the national federation of children -- of teachers. guest: it's great to be with the viewers and listeners on c-span. host: let me begin with the news

of the last few weeks. a lot of attention on wisconsin, but also the school firing the teachers and providence, rhode island. what is happening? guest: to have three things happening at the same time, and i was pleased to listen to frank once for a little while. -- dr. luntz for awhile. schools have to change. we have to help our schools to prepare for the next economy, and we had been indicted in the factory model. we are still mired in the worst budget crisis because of the fiscal crisis that they did not create. and number three, you have some elected officials that do not want to really talk honestly about the hard choices.

you have this demagogic and scapegoating, like fire all the teachers and province, when the providence unions and the school system has really worked to turn around schools, and his work to get more money for the private school system by the work they have done to get the pell grants and the other grants in the federal government. wisconsin is even worse. you have a governor there who has in some ways -- i am not saying there's not a fiscal issue -- has manufactured and made worse a budget crisis and refuses to even talk to workers who were willing to do a shared sacrifice. instead, he has made clear choices for his political friends by taking and by giving tax cuts to corporations and by limiting transparency and by doing no-bid contracts, and at the same time, cutting the budget in a disastrous way that

will be devastating to kids. host: there is a story in the front page of the "washington examiner," focusing on the polls in maryland, virginia, and the school districts. in the state of virginia -- the commonwealth of virginia does not want schools to start before the day after labor day. some want to start in late august. i wanted to touch on who has the best control over school districts, the state governments, the federal government's, should it be local school districts? guest: this is a really tough question. in america, we want control to be as close to where we are as possible. and that happens to our kids a lot. that is why we have throughout america, locally elected school districts.

but we can create a hybrid model here, meaning, we need to make sure that if you want to prepare all kids, we should not be having different levels of preparation in bensonhurst, new york versus birmingham, alabama. i am not saying there should not be a local of discretion, but knowing mathematics and fractions, they need to know in benton hers and in birmingham. the notion of having a common core, but kids need to know and be able to do, it is so important. but we also need to make sure that we have a lot of flexibility so that localities have a way of tailoring this and we respect local needs are. we can do both. as word teacher preparation and focusing on content and how we

teach it becomes so important. and best practices become so important. host: in madison wisconsin, michael more for testing in the state capital. they are saying that the sleeping giant is no way can. comments from scott walker, republican of wisconsin. >> this is not aimed at state workers and is not a battle with unions. if it was, we would have eliminated collective bargaining tire late. or we would have gone after the private sector unions. but we did not. because they are our partners in economic development. we need them to put to hundred 50,000 people to work in the private sector over the next quarter years. the legislation i put forward is about one thing -- about balancing our budget, now and in the future. wisconsin faces a $137 million deficit for the remainder of

this fiscal year. and the $3.6 billion deficit for the upcoming budget. our bill is about protecting the hard-working taxpayer. host: your response? guest: i read that bill, and the bill has many people -- i was in wisconsin yesterday. what is bad is when elected officials misrepresent the truth. what you have here is that you have public unions in wisconsin who have said to scott walker, we will give you the concessions you asked for, and he refuses to negotiate. you have a governor who actually made this budget crisis worse by creating tax breaks a month ago. this is an issue where he wants to eliminate the voice of workers. he cherry picks between people,

and it is just plain wrong. what is happening in wisconsin as well as the rest of the country, people are saying, stop it. negotiate with your unions, do not do this kind of stuff where you say one thing to the taxpayer, but you're actually doing exactly the opposite. i am sorry that i am new york mad instead of wisconsiners are able to do this without being as bad as i am. i was in madison. his cut of higher education is so much that the very same place is helping to retrain laid-off on factory workers, they will no longer be able to get that training so that they can compete for the jobs in wisconsin. that is what the governor is doing. he is asking people who make

modest livings to take the sacrifice, which they are willing to do, and yet silence their voice, because he does not want them involved in the political process or engaged in their destiny. host: let me point out something from joe klein, a supporter of unions. it begins -- there needs to be a rebalancing of pension and health-care benefits to put employees in line with what happens in the private sector. guest: what is interesting about what he and others are saying, in the public service, there was always the safety net, or let's call it the social contract, your salaries would be more modest but you would be protected in retirement, because some of the salary would become

deferred compensation. ultimately, what you see in wisconsin, for example, the average pension is $26,000 a year. approximately $500 a month. so when you look at the full compensation package in wisconsin, for workers, and basically you have professional workers, people with college degrees doing things like being lawyers and doctors and checking on forensics, doing the crime lab work, teachers, nurses -- they are basically paid about 5% less than private-sector counterparts in wisconsin. the real issue in america -- how do we make sure that we actually protect people in retirement? what has happened in america is that our health benefits in our pension benefits were always based in our employment, and now

when you have people moving around like never before, and such mobility, we do not have that anymore and the private sector. tenor 20 years from now, how will we make sure that people have secure enough retirement when they are 70 years old? host: our guest is the president of the american federation of teachers, a former high school teacher herself. clara barton high school in new york. guest: in brooklyn, new york. host: and a graduate from cornell university. oliver joins us from santa ana, california. caller: an interesting statement made by mckinsey and company international education consultant. the consult all over the world. they said, the number one outstanding conclusion of all the years of work is the most important thing in teaching,

competent teachers. my question to you -- i think you have a very negative vision here about all americans. the major purpose of teachers unions is to protect and competent teachers that destroyed the educational experience for children. how will be more specific. it takes an average in the new york city and los angeles, throughout the country, $200,000 to fire a teacher, because the union insists upon protected administrative and legal procedures. you have made it impossible to protect children by defending in competent teachers. host: we will get a response. guest: oliver, i would do what mr. luntz did earlier.

it would surprise you to know that when no is the president of the new york city teachers' unions and the mid 2000's, i asked mayor bloomberg to let the union police our own profession. i like you did not want to see this cumbersome process happened. i believe that we should teach -- treat teachers fairly, because they are important for kids learning. i am not sure that we are the most important, but we are really important. what my teacher union does both nationally as well as in new york city, we tried to do everything we can to get teachers the tools and conditions they need to do their job. we need to make sure that schools are places that parents want to send their kids. and that educators want to work. over the course of the last two years, we have proposed how you change that so that nobody can

use the issue of tenure as an excuse not to fairly evaluate teachers, not the focus on major construction is the best that can be. and what is happening in new york, there is no more rubber room. it takes 115 days these days to do these procedures. and nationally, we have made a proposal, based about what can feinberg has done for us, at the guy who saw a lot of problems in the united states, to keep this down to 100 days. host: dayton, ohio, welcome to the conversation, laurie. good morning. we would try one more time. you are on the air. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. caller: i am a public employee in dayton, ohio.

one of the things that bothered me about the discussion about the pension benefits of public employees is the dimension -- i see your point about the fact that we are accepting a smaller salary in exchange for the pension benefits that we receive. but what is never mentioned is that we receive those instead of social security. we did not pay into the social security system. we pay into the public employees' benefits instead. most of the public believes that pensions are on top of the social security. they do not understand why we're getting this cushy benefit which is misinterpreted by them because they do not know our particular situation. guest: steve, it is true. public employees in ohio, in california, in texas, in illinois, about 30% of the

public employees in this nation do not receive social security. their pensions are their only retirement security. and frankly, most public employees pay into their pensions. the employer pays into it and the public employees play into it. host: randi weingarten of the american federation of teachers joins us. michael from hunt's though, alabama. caller: good morning. i would like to ask you about the cost of people like frank luntz putting out misinformation. is it worth telling the students to go into education? guest: it is a good question. this whole notion of blaming the very people who went into

education and teaching to make a difference in the lives of kids -- i know we have to cut budgets. but this is our future. we need better teacher training, and we need to focus much more on how we evaluate how teachers perform and things like that. but we actually should be helping teachers teach, and giving them the tools and conditions that they need. having said that, i would like everyone to go into teaching. this is a noble profession. and when you actually connect with kids and you see -- it is a silly expression -- but when you see that's part, that connection, kids being able to do come but to imagine, to create, to argue fiercely and persuasively, you know that they will succeed in life. host: our guest is the vice-

president of the federation of teachers. this twitter comment -- guest: so this is the biggest problem right now. in the absence of real evaluation systems throughout the country, how do we deal with these anguishing choices? for years, when you had this level of layoffs, which already has been the basis of it is protected against things like cronyism and corruption and favoritism and things like that. but my union and hundreds of our locals, as well as the state,

the federal department of education, we have been focused on how you have better evaluation systems in order to make sure that you can make these agonizing choices. but the bottom line is this. we should be spending a bunch of time fighting to ensure that the investment in education continues. given the magnitude of these layoffs, it is going to hurt kids. frank luntz talk about class sizes of 60 kids. in middle school, if you cannot differentiate construction for kids. when you had the absence of supplies and materials -- when i taught in new york city, sometimes our textbooks still talked about john kennedy as the president. we have to rummage to find pieces of paper for our kids. we sometimes have to scavenge for tall. that does not make an education system where we help kids not

just dream their dreams, but achieve them. host: we have said once out which one phone line aside for educators. you can also send us an e-mail, or joined the conversation online. gainesville, texas, you're with randi weingarten of the american federation of teachers. caller: thank you for all the guests. it seems that the context of according to do this -- can you eliminate for us -- eliminate -- minate right for work

states and those that are heavily unionized? are the heavily unionized in much worse condition? guest: it is the opposite. right to work is a misnomer. it means that there are a lot of states in this nation that had very few unions or union contracts in the private sector or in the public sector. take the three states that prohibit bargaining, arizona is one of them. texas, i think, is another of them. the states that actually have prohibition on collective bargaining have worked deficits than the states that have public-sector collective bargaining contracts. you say the same thing in

education. the three states tops in education, md., minn., massachusetts. they have basically all of their school districts with teacher union contract. teacher unions 42 union contracts, they only cover about 53% of the teachers in the united states of america. this method that it union contracts have caused these deficits, it is just wrong. union contracts focus on trying to create unions and create respect and dignity. we try to lift all votes. -- all boats. .

at the end of the day, we have to find ways to help those who

have the least. we have to find things for kids who have fallen behind or for kids who grow up in poverty. that is our obligation if we want to help all kids in america. not just dream their dreams, but achieve them. >> and a comment from another viewer saying the educational system is primarily an agent for increasing separation between the haves and the have not's. >> what we're seeing is that -- and i'm concerned about this -- the gap between rich and poor is worse than it has been in decades. what you see -- you see, you know, huge vulnerable populations. the reason i'm so angry about a budget like scott walker's is that when you go beyond the soundbite it is devastating to seniors. it is devastating to kids in terms of the amount that they are cutting from kids'

education. what we need to do is we need to focus on quality, we need to focus on performance in k through 12 education, but we also need to make sure that we are helping those who are most in need. host: tom is joining us from new jersey. he is an educator. welcome to the conversation, tom. caller: thank you. my question is, you talk about scott walker and negotiating -- not negotiating, but isn't it true that he tried to get the unions to agree to certain things, and they did not agree to budge at all, not one bit? >> no, it is absolutely not true. it is actually -- sorry. guest: i'm sorry. i didn't mean to interrupt you. caller: he asked the unions if they would interest seed, and --

intercede. now the unions act as if they were given concessions, and that was not the case going forward. like frank lunz points out a couple times, when you don't have the facts acknowledge that and your argument will have a lot more credibility. guest: in wisconsin that is not true. what the public unions did was before scott walker came into office, they had agreed to a new contract with $100 million of concessions in it. what walker did was he fought against that contract and got the then assembly and senate or the senate to vote against it. when he -- each time the unions attempted to talk to him, he refused to talk to them. and when he raised the issue about the changes in health

benefits, they agreed to deal with and take these cuts, which amount to about a 12% cut in take-home pay. so it is actually not true that they said no in this case. in fact, it is quite the opposite. host: rosemary joining us from rome, georgia. good morning. caller: i retired and i absolutely have no pension, and i paid $700 a month in health insurance premiums, and 75% of my property taxes are allotted to local schools. i think the average person is tired of being taken advantage of in the midst of, quote, it's for our quids, end quote. -- for our kids, end quote. guest: look, what rosemary just

said is something that we are very concerned about, foo. what's happening in this country is in the absence of pensions anymore that were connected to where you worked, how are you going to ensure that all americans have decent retirements? we're trying to make sure that the quality of the public service is the best it can be. and ultimately, where i may disagree is that we need to make that investment in kids. that's our future, and that's their future, and that's our future. but money should not be wasted. we have to spend money really wisely. so what governors, and mayors have to do, we have to focus on how we help all people live a decent life. how we create jobs, how we make sure the quality of the public service are the best they can be, how we lift all those. >> one of our viewers saying

teachers do not work just nine months. that is a myth. randi weingarten, would you support year-round school? >> let me also say this about teachers. my mom was a teacher, and i taught for about six years full and part-time. my mother always -- there were papers all over our dining room table, our living room table because we didn't have a separate dining room. all the time, except when company came. my sister became a doctor i became a lawyer initially because we thought teachers worked too hard. the job of teaching is an incredibly exhilerating and exhausting job. there is basically the september through june school year. teachers work hours and hours after school at night, and most teachers actually over the summer are beyond -- are actually getting more credits, doing more things with an

education. there are some schools that are year-round schools. there are some schools that are staggered. what we've seen is that we need to make sure that kids that have summer learning loss really end up going back to school over the summer. but all these cuts that have happened in the last two years have actually cut summer school. host: another educator joining us, jerry. good morning, jerry. caller: there is only so much i can say. i have been in education for 15 years. i just can see that in the midst of all these cuts in education teachers are taking such a hit. the average teacher stays in the profession five years because as you stated, it is extremely, extremely difficult. that doesn't get talked about. the amount of work that teachers

do after hours in the summertimes and all the work that goes into it is absolutely amazing. if people understand that, this is why they stay away, only about five years. the other issue is the attack on women. 0% -- 85% to 90% of all women are teachers. i think the other public sector workers, they are not getting the same type of evaluation in terms of the attack on their pension plan, teachers are. i think women need to stand up and understand where a lot of this is coming from and understand that. but my third point is that the local property taxes where most education is funded is a burden on the local taxpayer, but i think the focus has to be on the obligation of the federal government. so we have a system where

politicians are turning average workers, middle class people against each other. we must keep that in mind. host: jerry, thank you for the call and making those three points. guest: it reminds me of, you take football. players are on the field for, what? two, three, four hours once a week. no one thinks that that's the only time a football player is actually working. they are practicing, they are practicing, they are practicing. the same is true with people who are concert pianists. no one thinks the only time they are working is when they are performing. the same thing is true in terms of teachers, as jerry said. and ultimately, teaching is one of the hardest things to do. you have to be -- you not only have to care about kids, but you

have to be incredibly good about your content, what you are teaching, and you have to end up being a fizzian and differentiate instruction for the lives of all the kids that you see. it is true that 40% to 60% of teachers who start in our profession leave our profession within the first three to five years. in washington, d.c., for example, you have a 76% attrition rate of teachers in the first five years. we need to do a lot more about respecting and giving the tools teachers need if we are serious about keeping the best and the brightest in our classrooms. >> this goes back to the earlier point of the role of unions and collective bargaining. ran difment weingarten saying some -- some are good and some are horrible, according to one

viewer, however we can't get rid of the bad ones because of union contracts. how do you stond respond to that? guest: what my union is doing is we have set out in the last two years to problem solve this. we need to actually create the tools and conditions that teachers need to do a great job. and that includes a real evaluation system that allows continuous improvement. so that's what we've proposed. a real evaluation system that's multireply measured, meaning it is about your practice as well as what kids are learning. number two, if teachers aren't cutting it, have a real improvement system in a very time-limited way. number three, if that doesn't work, you have a quick hearing. not a hearing that goes on forever, but a quick hearing. we have to stop this notion that we can just throw the keys to teachers and they can do it.

this is a complex, hard job in terms of how we help kindle the love of learning, the robustness of instruction to every single child we serve, regardless of that child's circumstance. host: why is it half of all african-american high school students fail to graduate? the 30% of public school students don't graduate at all from high school? >> well, it is hovering around 50%, which isn't good, either, not 30%. but two-thirds of the reason why kids don't achieve is because of socio-economic issues. having said that, what we have to do is frump that. one of the things that we have proposed is how do we both have a really great instruction that's a combination of teachers as well as rich, broad critic

lull, as well as having things that we call wrap-around services around schools. meaning, ensuring that we have after school activities, we keep schools open for extended time, we have things like medical care and other kinds of things, so we meet the needs of all kids, not just some needs, but all kids. so the schools that are starting to do that, like in places in syracuse, they have something called "say yes to education," a place called talent in education. what you are seeing when you focus on dealing with the other needs kids have, you seek higher graduation rates. frankly, we're not going to be happy unless we help all kids succeed, unless we see 100% graduation rates. that's what we have to strive toward. host: daniel is calling us from

mobile, alabama. caller: good morning. i would like to, quickly, concerning the last guest, frank, the last caller, frank tried to call him on a 4% unemployment rate. the employment was 4% when george bush took office and it was never as low as 4% again. now on to teaching and students. "highly qualified" has become the terminology. i know in my state we have to have a batch lower's degree -- bachelor's degree. that's how they denoted "highly qualified." if you continue to cut into pensions, you continue to -- there's a maximum pay, yet you say we need more talented teachers, better teachers in math and science. well, if i'm three classes away

from being an engineer or i'm two or three classes away from being able to be a research biologist, why am i going to go into the classroom? host: we'll get a response. thank you, daniel. guest: i think daniel is right on both counts. number one, the statistics that i saw, in the decade between 200 and 2010 there was not a net job gain in the united states of america. people use the various different percentages the way they wish to use them. just like tenure has become an excuse to not evaluate teachers, and teacher union contracts are not about how we transform education, how we get people the tools and conditions they need to do a good job because teacher and children's interests are virtually the same. teachers go into this profession to make a difference in the lives of kids, and our lafflet

caller was right. when you see all this bashing and demonizing of the very people that want to make a difference in kids, it is a chilling effect to get people to go into our profession. host: joe writes, if it is not true accident then i'm wrong, teachers can be fired at the direction of the principal. yes or no? guest: correct. if you notice, i start talking about it like due process. it is not like what happens in colleges. it is that in most districts, there is a three-year probationary period before somebody, if they get fired, just gets a hearing before that happens p that's what tenure is. and it has been used as an excuse all throughout america to not actually evaluate teachers.

so what we've proposed, what we've said is, principals who have had years and years and years of responsibility to evaluate teachers, what we're saying is, let's come up with better evaluation procedures. we have hundreds of districts now trying to do that. i was in marlboro new york this week, which is upstate new york. they are working on a terrific new evaluation system together. in terms of figuring out what teachers need to know and be able to do to ensure that kids are getting the best education possible. so, yes, for the -- for years principals have had this obstacle gage. unfortunately some do and some don't do it well. ultimately we are trying to step into this void and trying to create good evaluation systems that assess performance all throughout america and then also help people if they are floundering. and finally, if they can't cut it, have a very fair hearing.

host: mike is on the phone with randi weingarten. caller: we have a guy here, he's appalling. he blames the teachers, video games and everything, for what's going on. and when the man got in office, there is a governor's mansion he could have lived in. that wasn't good enough for him. he had to live in his own private house which cost the taxpayers an additional 3.some million dollars to protect hem him. then he calls the police of our fine country idiots. he halls the right to complain about the teachers and everything? scott walker, there is something wrong with this guy. he also put in his bill where he

can sell public companies like power plants and everything at a no-deal option. that means one of his mud buddies comes in and throws up a bid for a dollar, he can sell it to his buddy. i have had teachers in my family, my grandmother was a teacher in south dakota. she taught the sioux indians on the reservation. if somebody don't stop these guys, the people in this country are going to realize, it is going to affect everybody. host: thank you. guest: michael is right in ohio, take two of the largest cities there, cincinnati and cleveland, who just recently in the last few months, have new collective bargaining contracts that are transformtive in terms of helping kids learn. you would never know that from what governor kasich has said,

but in fact, they have actually met and exceeded their targets for years. cleveland, the teachers in cleveland, did millions of dollars of changes and of shared sacrifice in order to make sure that they could turn around the schools in cleveland. but instead what happens, you have a new governor who is escapegoating and demonizing the very people that have gone into this profession to help kids and having engaged in that process of shared responsibility. host: last twitter comment for you. "do you believe the increase of private magnate schools are hurting or helping public school systems?" guest: we believe in public school choice. what is happening -- look at charter schools, which is what i think your twitterer is saying. charter schools don't do much better than public schools.

80% of them do quam or worse than the public schools in their neighborhood. we have to focus on, what is the best practices? how do we help kids in terms of their instruction, and how do we help turn around the other conditions in their lives so they are ready and able to learn in school? host: randi weingarten, she is the president of the american federation of teachers. thank you for taking our call. >> thank you. it is always a pleasure. host: up next, the director for responsible politics will be here to tell us what we can expect in 2010 dwsh in the next election and also the race for control of the house and senate coming up in just a couple minutes. one bit of news from the associated press. developments in libya pointing out that sources are saying

pro-gaddafi sources. a gunship fired on rebel forces advancing toward tripoli along the mediterranean coastline today. meanwhile forces loyal to muammar gaddafi are fighting an intense ground battle with rival fighters. tripoli is the capital city of libya. it is a city of two million that is mostly in gaddafi's control. residents there waking up to the crackle of unusually heavy and sustained gunfire. it lasted for two hours. no word on casualties. again the latest on the situation in libya. this morning "the new york times" fearing that civil war is breaking out in that country as muammar gaddafi digs in his heels and stays in power. he has been in control the last 40 years. when we come back, the center for responsible politics first a look at the guests -- at the

events coming up. >> we reaired the five tv talk shows. topics include funding the federal government, budget cuts, scompuss us response to the situation in libya. we begin at noon with nbc's "meet the press." david gregory welcomes bill daly, white house chief of staff, and michelle bachman. at 1:00 a reair of "this week." here in washington, white house correspondent jake tapper hosts a discussion with jan brewer and john hickenlooper. later chris wallace hosts the westborough baptist church. at 3:00 p.m., candy crowley

talks with -- and former national security advisor, steven hadley. finally, it is "face the nation" from cbs. bob sheiffert talks with john kerry. the -- the reairs begin at noon with "meet the press," 1:00, "this week," 2:00, fox news sunday, and at 3:00 p.m., "face the nation." listen to them all on c-span radio. nationwide on xm satellite radio channel 132 or go online to c-span radio.org. >> pauline maier is on "in

depth" today. her latest "ratification" was published last year. join us taking your phone calls, e-mails, and tweets today at noon eastern. wamp previous programming at booktv.org. >> as cabinet members meet with their departments, watch online at the c-span video library. sitch, watch, clip and share. it is washington your way. "washington journal" continues.

host: thanks for being with us. guest: thank you. host: we know what we saw in 2010, the role of the supreme court that opened up a number of third-party groups for republicans and democrats. what are we going to see next year? guest: 2010 was the test ground for the elections. it was a step toward that presidential jugger knot. this time we're talking, i think, again, a new plain of advancing or increases in money because of both the citizens of united decision and because of the improving economy. host: what we saw last year and the role they have played in the republican republican party, american crossroads, many say took money away from the r.n. c.

we now have new leadership in the republican party. in terms of the structure of the two traditional parties and their umbrella organizations or affiliated organizations, what could we see? guest: i think that $120 million mark might be conservative to appear even more inflention. but they will, i think, be perhaps waiving less from some of the donars who may go back to supporting the rnc. host: we know about the coke brothers, they have contributed,

also george -- the koch brothers, charles and david koch have contributed to citizens for a sound economy. george soros has contributed to america coming together and moveon.org. guest: these are the two sources that received the highest interest, but they are not the only people who can pony up millions of dollars and have an influence in the issues we are reviewing today. host: forbes is estimated to be worth $17.5 pill billion and david koch, a board of

directors. guest: george soros has given more in individual donations. particularly to 527's. he gave 34.2 million in political channels compared to just $4 million from the koch brothers. they have a clear willingness to give through their organizational industries and the americans for prosperity and other things they have set up. i would be surprised if george soros was giving as much as they are willing to put in in the cycle, but he is certainly capable of it. host: after watergate we saw the creation of the s.e.c. where you had candidates accepting

donations. we have had candidates saying no to matching dollars. they still have to abide by the restrictions and how much they can raise per individual. now we have these outside groups that really are taking the place of these restrictions where there is very little control, if any. guest: it has really moved them out of this area where they have influence over a race or sear yiffs races. and it has taken some of the money away from the parties, but i think, again, 2012, the stakes couldn't be higher, with obama trying to stay for his second term and a host of individuals lining up to win this g.o.p. nomination. they have millions of dollars already raised for that fight.

it's going to be at least a $5 pill bill and pob reply a $6 billion election when all is said and done. host: $6 billion? >> the lobbying is billions more. $3.5 billion spent just last year. this is big, big money. these individuals and organizations would not be spending it if they didn't think in some cases is isn't a sound business investment. in some cases they are spending small amounts compared to the amount of money they made, but stand to win or lose through contracts or other business before the federal government. many people are giving big money because of their ideological

connections. host: our guest is sheila krumholz, she is executive director of the center for responsive politics. we're looking at third-party groups and what impact they will have next year. greg is joining us from phoenix, arizona. good morning. welcome to the conversation. cowboy good morning, c-span. i would like to note we need a total overhall on the way we handle elections. elections should be limited to the same amount of money for both sides. that money should not be gathered from parties looking for a dole from the taxes. it should be set to cover what we need to be taken care of. i think if each one was limited

by a certain amount of advertisements on television, limited in scope of what they can spend zsh and since all broadcasting has to be licensed, they should have to give a certain amount of free air space to candidates. >> thank you, greg. we'll get a response. guest: this court, in particular, is much more friendly to the liberty side of the coin than the equality side of the coin. there has always been a tension, many would say a healthy tension, for the right for individuals to spend as much as they want to express their views.

this is again a first amendment right. and money has been equated with speech. since the watergate era there has been a tension back and forth in the courts and conversations about how much can be spent. limits have been spent on individual donations but there is no limit on how much can be spent by outside interest groups. now the money can come from unions and trade associations as well. public financing has been an attempt to even the playing field and allow a more diverse array of voices. i think that was important for the carter candidacy and -- it had been allowed to wither on the vine the last 40 years. i don't see that as making a comeback quickly. it doesn't seem to be the political will to invest in a more viable system and educate the public on how it works.

host: james says outside interest groups have taken away from the entrenched systems in -- politicians who have ruined america. they are a blessing, not a curse." guest: whether or not you think it is a good thing to have more debates and that these organizations have bringing new ideas and new issues to the fore in particular races is up to each individual. certainly we feel it is imperative for the public to know who the players are behind these debates and how much they are spending, and that, unfortunately, is not transparent at this point.

host: and james writes, "citizen united was just the corporations way of assuring they can buy the candidates they want and influence america." guest: now there is a big concern that by opening up the door and unleashing hundreds of millions of dollars in additional funding we have made it harder for the individual candidates and even the parties to put forth their platform to be able to speak and to find the air time to convey their message to the voters. they are competing against deep pocket interests, special interests that have, in some cases, a narrow agenda, ask that are being hidden about their true sources of funding. i think if the people have access to the information about who is spending the money, they can make better judgments about the credibility of the sources and whether or not those sponsors represent their

interests. host: if you want more information, the center for responsible politics. our guest is sheila krumholz. caller: the $5.3 billion spent in the last election, can you break it down to how much of it was spent by unions, how much of the money that unions spent, which direction, republican, democrat, or other, and also as we talk about these major contribute tores, can you tell us how much money george sorros contributed compared to the koch brothers. guest: on open secrets.org, you can see how much unions are giving in each cycle to candidates and parties as well

as outside spending. you can look at public sector vs. transportation and public trade. for the union sector, which are the organizations which are ponying up the most money. unfortunately, unions give far, far less. the -- so they do give almost entirely to democrats. many unions have given more over the last decade to republicans. some unions are more

conservative than others. but by far they give the vast majority to past and individual executives. even outside interest groups. from 1989 to 2010, they contributed roughly 5.5 million. the vast majority, 83% to republicans. during the last decade, they contributed 1.5 million to outside organizations. tw between 1989 and 2010, $2.5 million to political candidates and political parties.

about $1.74 million from george soros. about $32.5 million to those 527 organizations, and $100 million to human rights watch. >> does the speaker see any connection between the money that unions donate and the acks around the country to diffuse unions, take away their mour, and kind of destroy them in a sense. they are not comparable to corporations, but they are a powerful block for getting out the vote. guest: certainly they have resources at their beck and call beyond the money. they have millions of members they can mobilize to knock on doors and get out the grassroots election effort and send money

out on an issue, polling, et cetera. that, of course, is also available to corporate interests. is it related to the efforts to pull back on collective bargaining rights? certainly money cannot be ignored. some would argue that the unions, by relying so heavily on political spending are fighting a losing battle because of the deeper influences in their corporate competition. they are a force to be reckonned with and an important source of election funding. host: we're talking to sheila krumholz, the executive director for the center for responsive politics, and we welcome our viewers watching and listening on the bbc parliament channel. helen ask joining us from

glasgow, scotland. welcome to the conversation, helen. caller: i would like to preface this by saying, i voted for obama, and my mother is a jew. considering the -- at what point does lobbying become a case of the tail wagging the dog. host: we'll just take the last part of her question. guest: lobbying is the other side of the coin. zahavi lobbyists -- saavy lobbyists are spending billions. current members of congress want to educate them about the needs of their corporations or unions or industries. and are using not just money but also connections, using the revolving door, hiring former

staffers of these members as a way to keep that door open and keep the conversation going and keep cordial relationships. so, again, if you don't have the resources to contribute campaign donations, you are at a huge disadvantage. for people at home, i think we all need to be aware of the players that are mobilizing on these issues and how much they are spending to know what you are up against. host: if freedom of speech is attached to money, her reference is citizens -- "if freedom of speech is attached to the money, why are individual's donations to a candidate capped?" guest: for the fear of corruption or the appearance of corruption. that dates back to the watergate reforms. they have since the

mccain-feingold act been increased each cycle, meaning more and more money is being spent through direct contribution to candidates and parties each cycle. host: john is joining us from michigan, republican line. good morning. caller: yes, good morning, sheila. in the 1990's, i voted for bill clinton. anyway, in 1992. during the election in 1996, there was all this money coming from indonesia, the riatti family. and i sat there in disbelief as bags of cash -- money was coming from low rock, there was a guy that had a restaurant there. it was vain g, -- it was all very strange, considering the history of watergate. there is a low self-recall which

the riatti family had control over. the escalante national park was being mined, and bill clinton stepped in, and they announced it with the background of not -- well, anyway, you get my point i think. and nobody said a word. and i couldn't understand why this was occurring and nobody was saying anything about it, and i wonder if you could confirm if it is true and any comments you might have i would appreciate hearing. thank you. >> the senate governmental affairs committee in congress did investigate the foreign money filtering into politics in the 1996 campaign, of course, it was primarily fobalingoused on -- primarily focused on the efforts of john wang to raise money from the riatti family.

there was the shili temple. there was clearly money coming into the system that did not belong there, that should have been rejected by the d.n.c. and others. there were foreign contributions that were also pointed out or alleged to have come into the republican coffers as well, but i think it was considered by far to be a democratic scandal. you would think that would force them to make sure financials would be disclosed. citizens united says again we do not have the proteches in place to make sure that no foreign money is getting into our election system. we do not want foreign interests, governmental or any other association to be able to fund american elections.

that i think is at risk at this time. host: where can one get good information about whose advisers are lobbying for whom? what about the revolving door? guest: you can see which organizations are represent ling whom, -- are representing whom, which clients are spending millions of dollars in the federal government at opensecrets.org. you can also see who they are hiring, because the revolving door is such an important tool they have at their disposal, inform hire former staff -- to hire former staffers. they often go from lowly paid positions in congress to lucrative positions on k street. these people are able to pay for their kecks, to work all of the angles, get expenditures, but

also individuals who have kecks at the highest levels. host: good morning. caller: the country went through a financial crisis in 2008. then comes citizen united. i think the financial crisis was due to a lot of corporate corruption, a lot of the banking industry, and wall street, and there hasn't seemed to be anybody particular prosecuted for those things. it was never mentioned in the news media. and system united comes along and opens the door for more funding for the same people who put us in the position where we are today. so where is the democracy in this? where does the working guy have a say? i don't think that it is the unions or the teachers making $50,000 a year in wisconsin being attacked that caused the financial collapse. there was a lot of suffering going on in this country.

how do you reform citizens united? host: thank you, billy. guest: there are many attempts being made to counter the a attempts of citizens united. now to even amend the constitution. whatever response we have, i think it is going to be a long slog to fight this. there is, at the supreme court level and in other court decisions, a propensity to defend liberty over the protection of -- to prevent corruption or the appearance of corruption. that was clearly the leaning of this decision. i think people are concerned, though. right after citizens united, there were polls taken that demonstrated that a majority of individuals surveyed did not agree with the decision and recent polls that -- peter hart

research group has updated that and say that still a majority of americans disagree with the decision. so it remains to be seen what will happen. congress could take steps to mitigate the steps of all the money being spent as per the decision, but that hasn't happened yet. and it is unclear whether there is any will to do that. >> yet, as we saw from the supreme court decision, last week, an 8-1 ruling, the ability to give freedom of speech for protesters who wanted to go to funerals of military veterans, not the same thing, but the same argument, a freedom of speech, the majority decision of citizens united. >> yes. so again, with the freedom of speech, first amendment right, and in the case of citizens united, even for corporations, unions and trade associations,

is their paramount interest. >> open secrets.org. sheila krumholz is our director. she is from the center of -- good morning. caller: good morning. i think the revolving door is important, but i think money is even more important. in other words, the public unions give money to the politicians, then the politicians give a sweetheart deal to the people that gave the money, and then that money goes round and round and round. but i think the outside group even more important is the universities. 90% of the university professors are presumed to be liberal. the people who are then hired by c-span and others because they went to the liberal colleges, it is understandable they are liberal because they never thought it through as to exactly

what is the truth and what is fair and what we really know is -- i have 12 grandchildren. nobody ever teaches them about eternal life. in other words, our life on this life is so short compared to eternity, and eternity is so beautiful compared to the struggles and the wars and all of the nitty-gritty that we have in this life. so i think that the universities should point to eternity and they should think like the indians did, way back to the seventh generation. we should not only be talking about the seventh generation but the 700th generation and how we should protect this beautiful, beautiful world. i can tell anybody, eternity is

far more beautiful and we should stop the evil-doing and we should start to love our neighbor as ourselves. host: and harold, i will stop you on that point. i really relate -- not really related to the topic we're discussing. but as always, we appreciate you weighing in. ununless you want to respond to harold's points. guest: i was going to say unions and teachers unions lean left. you can see the details on how much they give by going to secrets.org. host: kathy. caller: thank you for taking my call. i hope i get as much time as that fellow. i think frank luntz' book should

be called "spin" not "win." i want to ask your guest what other country where corporations have so much influence as they do now with citizens united? i was surprised when i looked at the chamber of commerce funds, how much money was coming from corpgs based -- corporations based in india. you talked about foreign-based influence, so if you could talk about the chamber of commerce, where they get their money. and this is off topic, but i watched "washington journal" and twice you guys have shown a map in the last week that does not show the land being a contiguous piece of land.

host: we do have a couple different maps. the one we are showing may be too small to show that area. we do have close-ups you have used in the past. appreciate your comment. her earlier point. guest: in terms of other countries, certainly many countries across the world are struggling with this and particularly with the disclosure piece. we're fortunate in the united states, post watergate and in particular that we have access to this information and for information from federal spending from congress. but many corporations and governmental say we don't have an opensecrets.org. tell us how you have done what you have done. much of the fund-raising in those countries is in the parties not the candidates. the united states is unique in the regard that candidates go

out there to raise all the money. it is a lot more diffuse, and there is, i think -- it is critical, therefore critical to track all the money going to relationship yepts. through the chamber there have been great concerns raised about the money being raised about the chamber of commerce. there is not sufficient transparancy about that, but they have said that this is not a concern. so it all depends on your view of how trustworthy they are. they have not opened their books. host: so in expectation of what you think is going to happen in 20 fwelf, -- what's going to happen in 2012, how much will be raised? guest: undoubtedly more than in 2008. that does not include all the billions spent on lobbying,

which in many cases will show up for political support as well. and i think we're looking at much more being spent from the outside spending piece. that is included in the $5.3 billion. we saw $300 million. a 60% increase from the last mid-term election in 2006. and i think that's going to easily increase by leaps and bounds by perhaps double to $600 million in 2012. host: sheila krumholz, executive director for the center for responsive politics, thank you for being with us. guest: thank you. host: you can get more by going to opensecrets.org. guest: thank you. host: the words as delivered on march 4, 1861. this took place yesterday at the u.s. capital.

>> you can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors. you have no oath registered in heaven to destroy the government, while i shall have the most solemn one to preserve, protect, and defend it. i am loathe to close. we are not enemies but friends. we must not be enemies. the passion may have strained. it must not break our bonds of affection.