congresswoman sheila jackson lee. we will also talked to doc hastings. later, "the washington post" .eporter, ed o'keefe ♪ ♪ host: at 9:30 a.m. this morning, the house a homeland security chairman peter king will convene the latest hearing on islamic radicalization in the u.s. six witnesses will testify at this hearing that will be live on c-span3. three members of congress will be testifying, including one of two muslims in the congress,

dingell, and frank wolf, a republican from virginia. what is your reaction to this hearing? we want to discuss it this morning on the "washington journal." as we go through the newspapers. host: we have set aside our fourth line this morning on the "washington journal" for muslims in the u.s. we will begin taking those phone calls in just a moment. first, we want to get an update on what is going on in the congress when it comes to money. here is the headline in yesterday's "washington times." "senators hail defeat of rival spending cuts." joining us on the line is david

hawkins. what happened yesterday in the senate and what happens next? guest: yesterday in the senate, the senate was asked to vote on two competing versions of legislation to cut money for the rest of this fiscal year, which only last until september 30. the republican option, the bill the house passed two weeks ago, that would cut $60 billion below current spending levels -- the democratic alternative was to cut about 1/10 of that amount. both of them failed spectacularly. each of the needed 60 votes, because, as your watchers know, most anything in the senate needs 60 votes to go anywhere. every republican voted against the democratic plan and so did 10 centrist democrats. every democrat voted against the republican plan and so did three

of the most conservative republicans, the tea party favorites, demint, rand paul, and the new senator, lee from utah. this was so predicted. it was predicted that both of these alternatives would fail. they represent the hands of the spectrum of the domestic spending cut debate -- the ends of the spectrum of the domestic spending cut debate. a state state to try to get some progress. your side does not have a chance of winning and now it is time to go to the bargaining table. that's where they are allegedly headed. president obama's emissary in these talks will be vice president biden, who is in europe until friday night. the director of the white house

budget office, jack lew, bill daley, and the congressional leadership to try to find some middle ground, probably not only on domestic spending for the rest of this year, but maybe some spending levels for next year and maybe some changes to the tax code and maybe even some changes to medicare and medicaid to try and actually rein in the deficit. host: march 18 is the drop dead date for the u.s. government right now. guest: you are correct. in theory, they are operating against the deadline of next friday. host: what do you mean "in theory"? guest: there's no way it could get done by next friday. already, the republicans are hard at work drafting another stopgap spending bill, a continuing resolution, to keep

the government running for a few more weeks to buy more time for these negotiations. technically, the budget year began on october 1. it's almost half over. they've been living on temporary spending bills ever since. the government could come in theory, shutdown next friday night. neither side wants that to happen. both sides are willing to kick the can down the road a little bit longer, probably until the middle of april. the price that the republican house members will expect for this are cuts of about $2 billion per week along the way. host: david hawkins is the managing editor of "congressional quarterly." thank you for giving us an update on "washington journal" this morning. the lead editorial this morning in "usa today" -- "king's hearings on islam put fear above fact-finding."

"a teenager arrested in a plot to bomb a christmas tree lighting ceremony in portland, ore.."

host: is a little bit of the "usa today" editorial this morning and right below that is peter king, writing in the opposing view. "having an open discussion will put us on the right track to counter the ongoing radicalization efforts and securing our homeland." that's just a little bit of peter king. this hearing at 9:30 a.m. eastern time will be live on c- span3. you can also watch it at c- span.org.

now to your phone calls. we want to get your reaction to the first hearing in this series of hearings on the islamic radicalization in the u.s. and our first call comes from cleveland on the line for republicans. caller: i think what's peter hat peter kingw is doing is fine. peter king is holding a hearing. of course, liberals want to blow everything out of proportion. is the end of the world. they're doing the same thing in wisconsin. they're acting like peter king will give a hen. by the time is over, we will be -- into guantanamo bay. all this talking about is holding hearings. most people do not even know who

peter king is. if you were to ask them who peter king is, they would say it brother.ng's little they have no idea. if liberals were making a big deal out of nothing. host: thank you for calling in this morning. our next call is also from ohio. faced -- faith on the line for democrats. go ahead. caller: hi. the last time i checked, america was a place that all people could live. i think muslims are people. christians are people. we should tolerate one another. if you want to get angry in this country, there's enough things to get angry about. there are loss of freedoms.

there are interfering into other people's countries and their businesses and their ways. we are not going to be satisfied in this country until we run ourselves all the way down into the dirt. host: again, if you like to contact us, you can dial in on the phone numbers. we have set aside our fourth phone line for muslims in the u.s. this morning. 202-628-0184 is the number for you to call and you can also contact us via e-mail or twitter. from "the washington post" this morning, "house hearing to bring debate on islam to the fore."

host: that is from "the new york times -- that is from "the

washington post." good morning. caller: in republican -- i am republican. i wanted to vote for george bush, but i felt there was going to be a war. i was told that republicans usually engage in war. i could not vote for him. i would not vote for lieberman. i felt that the jewish interest was there and that was not the only interest in america that we should be looking at. i happen to be muslim-american. i was with -- i feel like we should look for people who are trying to break up and tear up the hard-fought democracy in america, but i do not think we

should take a radical approach. we should take an extremely cautious approach. i do not feel like it is a threat. most muslims should be peaceful, if they are really muslims. most american christians and american what ever they follow -- we should all be trying to conserve our -- we should all try to preserve our democracy. there was a lady running for senator and i was for her. george bush had [inaudible] when he would come to illinois, and he would also come to the motorcade. i was working with chris dodd to get her hired in the south suburbs. muslims do good things for america and we're not all just democrats. we do not want to see our country blown up and torn up, but we do want to establish what martin luther king said.

keep everything equal for all people. that's what we should be looking at. we should not be looking at people coming in to tear our country up, but we should be cautious to make sure no one cares. what we all worked hard for and our ancestors worked hard for. host: mohammed is calling from washington, d.c. good morning. caller: good morning. i was reading this book "foreign islam in america." it is a good book in reference to -- host: are you still with us? caller: yes. it is a good insider story. basically, the stark difference between the immigrant community and the native voices in islam in america of. basically, it is saying yes,

there's a lot of radicalization among the immigrant community and it has spilled over to the indigenous majority population, african american muslims or black american muslims, as you've seen in the guy who went in one of those states and shot somebody in the army recruiting office and so forth and so one. the black american muslims, the majority of us, have a domestic agenda. it has not really been internationalized until the immigrant community came into the united states, which the government has really let them in. they have more or less acquiesced to a lot of international influences that was related to their home countries. this has not been dealt into at all between the immigrant community and the black american

community. there's a huge, stark difference -- night and day -- in those communities. host: what do you think about the peter king hearing today? caller: peter king, he is correct. this needs to be out. i wish i knew something about it. this is the first time i've heard about it. i would like to testify myself. as a third generation muslim -- my parents are muslim and their parents were muslim. i'm a black american muslims. my experiences coming to islam and excepting islam and looking at the immigrant community and the things they tried to influence me -- it was not correct, as well. i did not have my own independent thinking, i would be off on some wild, radical thoughts myself. host: we have to leave it there.

thank you for calling in. by the way, this hearing is that 9:30 a.m. and it will be on c-span3 and it will also be on c-span radio, which is available on xm and in the washington- baltimore area, 90.1. you can watch it on any of those ways. john dingell will be the first to testify. keith ellison, democrat of minnesota, will be second. the fourth panel consists of m. zuhdi jasser and abdirizak bihi host -- bihi. next call, akron, ohio. what you think about this hearing? caller: i just wanted to say

that we should definitely be doing things. we have terrorism in this country and abroad, but it does our country a disservice and makes us much less able to distinguish between muslims and terraced -- and terrorists. not all muslims are terrorists. in response to the first caller's statement, i would tell them to go to wikipeida and type in japanese americans, 1942. host: on the front page of "the washington post" is the picture of the late david broder, one of the most respected writers on national politics. he died wednesday in arlington, virginia of complications from diabetes. that is how this front-page story in "the washington post"

begins. dan, who worked with david broder of for years, and is the senior political writer for "the washington post" -- this is his column this morning. "an old-fashioned reporter, to the end." here is just a little bit of what he writes. "he traveled regularly to give himself perspective. he knew how the contours' of politics differed from one state to another and why those differences mattered nationally. he made a point of getting to the governors, recognizing that they later became president. by late in his career, he was treated like royalty at the annual meetings of the national governors' association. he sought out a governor, who was clearly thrilled to meet him. david hardly noticed he was there to learn.

he was not without fault or limitations. he had the messiest office in "the washington post" newsroom. how messy? so messy that at times there was barely enough room for him to slip through the door and sit in front of his computer." host: david broder died yesterday in arlington, virginia. zach in tennessee, what do think about this hearing happening today? caller: i do not think there's anything wrong with a it -- with it. trying to find out exactly how people are thinking and what the motivations are -- sometimes you

have to find out exactly where they're coming from. as a muslim, i've been here for 30 years. the reason that i left my country is that -- what can happen here? the main goal of this religion is to turn the whole universe to muslim. that's how we are taught. that is our duty. they can arrive to the goals slowly. we have to be careful and not be afraid. [inaudible] i which stated that a long time ago. what do we need? do we need another 9/11 to wake

us up again? host: where are you from originally? caller: i'm from cairo, egypt. host: thank you. what are your thoughts on what is happening in egypt in the last month? caller: this is what i think -- i'm very afraid of the results. there's a vacuum in the system and i'm afraid it will be filled by bad people. do thistrying to muslim-christian thing. i hope the egyptian people are smart enough to know that. host: what do you do in bristol, tenn.? caller: i have a gas station. host: thank you for calling in. from "washington times" -- "the obama administration is giving new meaning to bully pulpit."

"cyber bullying refers to those actions online." next call on the peter king islamic radicalization hearing,

norman, oklahoma, republican. caller: yes, that's a very good segue from your report about bullying in the public schools to talk about the central thing that peter king's committee should be focusing on. that is freedom, religious freedom. the thing is that his committee should be focusing on the free exit of muslims from their particular muslim communities. if those people were in a mosque are threatened with death as a penalty for apostasies from islam, then that particular organization does not have the constitutional protection for free exercise of religion and can be regulated by the government as an extortion.

that's what this committee should be focusing on more than anything. host: elizabeth, new jersey. caller: how are you doing? i just want to say a couple points. the first thing is, if any muslim in the world believes that america is going to apply justice to any muslim anywhere in the world, all you have to do is look at palestine. palestine is the model of how america, the european union, and all the other european countries treat muslims. all you have to do is look at the history of palestine and you will see what i'm talking about. the second thing is, this term -- terrorism and radicalization. i was watching the super bowl. we sing the star spangled banner and you have all these commercials with joining the army, navy, and the air force

marines. you see all the different weapons we have in this country. i think america radicalizes the people in our armies, in our wars. i have a lot of respect for people in the army. i have people in my family who have been in the army, air force, and marines. i have an uncle who was a tuskegee airman. we want our military to kill, to be the best killers in the world. people we're killing right now are muslims. i think terrorism is a creative term by the people who have the means and the ability to control the media. if muslims are terrorist, any guns they build, any bonds they make, america has over 80,000 homicides per year because of people killing because of guns. let's be real. host: we got the point. thank you for calling in.

"republicans turned spotlight to jobs." house republicans are taking new steps to spur efforts for hiring, including a jobs form to be held in the capitol next week. "we have been about cutting and growing since day one," representative eric cantor, the virginia republican and majority leader said. this is the story in "the new york times" this morning. martin, orange county, california, you are on the line. peter king is holding a hearing on the islamic radicalization of the u.s. -- in the u.s.

what do you think? caller: probably the more important story would be the loss of david broder. i've been around for years and years and years. as far as peter king goes, there's the connection he had with the i.r.a., theoretically shipping guns when the i.r.a. was doing the things it was doing as far as causing terror in the u.k. and such. i think it's a real sad state of affairs. i think it is exactly -- the gentleman made reference to japanese internment and such. we do have freedom of religion. i'm a christian, but i'm also an american and i believe in the constitution and rogers and the sky king and all that stuff.

i just think this seems absolutely wrong. host: sayed in irving, texas. good morning to you. caller: all my beloved americans. host: we are listening. please go ahead. byler: i'm kind of disturbed the republicans and especially what mr. king is doing right now and lieberman and mccain and what newt gingrich is doing right now. they are making more people radicalized. host: how so? caller: its dividing the muslims and christians right now. host: how are those people you mentioned making more people radicalized? caller: because all those [inaudible] host: thank you for calling in

this morning. mayflower, arkansas, you are on the line. darwin on the line for independents. you have to turn down the volume on your tv. we will put you on hold. we will come back to you. .

>> whatever that run the neighborhood came out and beat this 15-year-old boy with a pipe. they are letting this goi run off to israel. >> may flour, arkansas on the independent line. good morning and wake up america.

i have a problem with c-span. people are calling that don't even know what the koran is or have never read it. i have read it twice. it is a radical religion. their goal is to an i'll ate christians and jews. that is the instruction host: james allen tweets in. today's republican party is attacking unions and muslims. notice the similarities. >> good morning, peter.

you make it look so easy. until they start pushing to raid kkk meetings and put those people under house arrest or behind bars. this is the original terror group in america because they were dissatisfied with the results of the so-called civil war they do all the activities under the christian religion in burning crosses and rebel flags.

i want to apologize for people with an iq above 60 who have no idea about history and for your first caller who i believe was a black man. >> until america realizes this. this all people of color, they will never be what they claim to be. her office said she had not profits and she was returning the money for concern of how the arrangement might appear. she has been very careful

according to

>> the five most socially networked cities, washington, d.c., atlanta, denver, minneapolis, seattle. the bottom five. bakersfield, california. lubbock, el pass owe. that is from a survey in mens health magazine. there's all sorts of ways to follow

pursuing the office. loding the host there to mumbarak. that's in the "new york times." these web firms that help now. they seek to overthrow their governments. several agencies have been

funding a handful of technology firms that allow people to get on line

>> is it lights out for the light bulb law some house and senate republicans want to phase these out the texas republican is pushing come painian legislation in the house. that's in u.s.a. today this morning. back to your calls on the hearing in the u.s. from ohio, allen is on the

republican line. this should have been done a long time ago. you hear all these people are so uneducated. great move when you let chuck go. great move, thanks >> the guy we like to hate. i can't stand the guy myself. the guy from iran. he came over to the un he asked our media people, what did these people have to do with the terrible persecution all day the

ages. what did they have to do with the hallow cost. they had nothing to do with it. the jewish people lived there all the time. the radical jewish people play off the islam yik. it's a caucasian country. neither one want to make peace you saw what they did when he tried make peace over there. he won't do anything.

the younger men like animals are challenging the old man regime. religions are constantly evolving also predicted that the

white house would-v property barack obama to concede that his party would respond. >> republican primaries have served their party well. americans voting

. >> next call from virginia. good morning. i don't think they are based on any anything to be radicalized. i had had to deal with stlets and not being able to leave my

house after 9/11. basically threats from christia christians. one caller who tried to state the difference between immigrants that come here as opposed to african-american muslims. i grew up here all my life. i have family in the military. my father and mother were both in the air force. he fought two wars in vietnan.

he fought for my right. we want to live good productive lives if that gets lost, this country is really going down the tubes all members of congress will be testifying as will the sheriff in los angeles.

night on the line returning to madison. thank you for having me on. yesterday, the ser vant went in with no democrats present. they voted to fine snartz for $100 a day for each session they missed. this is the controversial budget

repair bill that would have collectively shorted the bargin repair rates we didn't think we could vote on the bill. however they decided to strip all of the fiscal measures of the bill without their cousin. they said we are sending it to the committee that is going to meet at 6 p.m. there was one democratic representative on that committee

who ended up shouting because they weren't recognizing him during the committee meeting. this meeting hasn't been properly noticed. they erupted in a shout. it was a pretty wild scene. we could hear protesters chanting where they had gathered at the windows. after that, it went very, very quickly back to the senate floor

many rushed the capitol. we had 5,000 to 7,000 flooding in to the capitol >> it is about a 99 member body. one thing protesters can camp out. the chamber is filled.

thank you for having me. there is a strike and a march over their pension system there. illinois bans death penalty.

we'll be become in just a minute. author and the president of king's college and the 175th

memory every morning, our live call in number everyday. watch coverage of the u.s. house

washington journal continues host: congresswoman sheila jackson. as you heard, we have been talking with our viewers about the 9:30 a.m. hearing your committee will be holding.

guest: i do support this. i want to remind america that after 9/11 in the immediate trag yik attack on the world trade and here in washington and pennsylvania. members of both parties went on the steps and sang god bless america. we really meant that. we pray that they would rise above terrorism. we believe this is a situation today not about fact finding, really about highlighting one individual about islam and the

public community. i read a quote. he said we welcome these hearings. many other forms of terrorism law enforcement is aware of. those that were overzelous.

if we wanted to secure the homeland and look at all the aspects. that's a fair question it is not fair to take one group many who went to be interpreters. and teachers. lastly i would say. travel among the muslim community as i have. whether pakistany or indian american.

what i see are values similar to any of ours. they are truly taking part in the american greep but also being able to give back to america >> this is a very good point. the difference is very con spik uously intruded himself on the discussion i indicated since the

tragedy of 9/11. it evolved having a passion. when you make it a narrow focus when you say the whole community is radicalized. it is distinctive. or the civil rights movement when doctor king was called a communist. when you make yourself a focal point or you make this healing a focal point i don't want to put

any american in jeopardy. in the u.s. 202-628-1001. >> thank you for your service. >> i am very familiar with king and his an ticks. the liberals surrounded by others peter king is very active

in fundraisers during the reagan administration it was not only illegal but the private foreign policy. second -- host: dan, we'll leave it there. we have a lot of information on the table. what is your response? guest: congress is involved with many activities that caution us. many of us are very grateful there is peace in ireland i think it is important for him to assess they should be treated

the branch mississippi, good morning. caller: thank you representative for your service i want to say i believe king is assisting in a ploy to pass more rules. we are becoming rules rather than a nation of law >> why don't they look at the catholic church with all those boys being terrorized. if you think we are going back

to the constitution, you can forget it. nobody passes rules but rulers. the first black president who was john handson passed the articles of separation so we don't go following these rules this is a nation of laws. it is a late nation who adheres to the cons collusion.

i think we have moved for those various movements i believe that this hearing when we are allowing for freedom of expression or speech she's right. let's all of us -- i might say this. we are now relooking at the patriot act. one of the key corner stones is let us adhere to the fourth amendment. let's adhere so the people are

not discrime nated against. in 2009 was a bear weather. less than 11 were involved with muslim americans. others were being engaged as well have a hearing that talks about all aspects it is not the case. most are ok with muslim hearings

. >> i interpret it under our leer ship that we were abe to fund. i also believe americans are saying have a look see a letter

written to our leadership. they said the same thing let the hearings be fair and just. tell us what happened to timo think mcveigh. the elected communities that's the hearing when you look at the wide range this can be watched

on c-span 3. listened to on the radio and walked on line. good morning. you with us? >> i won't tell you what's on my screen. caller: i wanted to thank ms. lee. she's been a great representative to the office she holds. half of them want to run for president. what do they mean when they talk about they want to take back their country? host: thought you were done. sorry about that.

i believe america is at her best when we give a sense. we are better when everyone is at the seat of empowerment. we walk together democrats, republicans. people from all walks of life the attack on the marches. people from all over america

race and creed. that's what i think we missed when we have a hearing like this this morning. that may generate facts that are important when you realize it's the only form. >> i'd like to remind everybody. wasn't it the islam that have a little say that say they will fly their flag over the white house some day. there's 150 million americans that have guns and arms to the teeth in their houses bring it

on. i'll be on the front line i have not heard of any hard working muslim american or hard working american talk about seeing this countiesing or taking any flag that represents anyone other than the united states wfr a country that hassan armed military that is prepared. i hope we can function more on educating our children of all back grounds to view themselves as pat re0 tick americans.

i don't believe we have a case or situation of muslim americans that are rising up. i cannot talk about that kind of talk against them. >> this question came in. what is the position of african-american muslim american community. we are privileged to now have the muslims in and out of

congress he happens to be the muslims of faith. i'm grateful he is a witness as i am. he will likewise commend himself in any manner. there are only 100 that may have been involved.

these individuals may be in the hearing. i've heard them so many times express their affection with others. when you watch muslim americans

sing with beauty, god bless america. nearly a quarter of that population is muslim. 2.6 million muslims in the u.s. with a population of the u.s. >> all miss limbs is not all terrorists. when is this going to go for heari hearing.

why don't they come ought to prote protect. if they don't like bhaz going on, they should protect. guest: it is well documented through law enforcement officials locally and national ly you will find that they are very eager to engage in matters of which they can be helpful. it is focussed on them.

the hearing is purposely adhering and focusing on only the muslim-american community. that's why they have raised their voices. they have not absolutely rejected the factual hear issing

>> he will be testifying in the fourth pan al this morning. from new york city. caller: thank you c-span for taking my call. i want to thank ms. jackson for being so fair and true person. i wish you from new york. i find them very scarey. i don't know what's their age a agenda. i am from egypt, i've been here

over 20 years. i have two very smart children. when i see what's going on from mr. king. i turn the tv off and don't let my kids see that. i live in a building of jews and christians. thank you for we have people like you in the congress to talk for us. if i see a muslim person doing something wrong, i will stand before anybody and point him that he's doing something wrong. we all escape to the u.s. we have the best system in the

world we know people like yourself get into the case and take care of it. for the caller who called before and say the callers don't protest. why they didn't protest when he came around the crime he was doing. any other criminal person in the u.s. we do it when mr. obama came the office and went to cairo university

host: we'll have to cut it there. thank you for calling. >> i will take you to the hearing in my heart. i will take his message to that very hearing table. he said some things very important he mentioned the diversity of the whole apartment

building together. he mentioned the dreams of his children together. he did well suggesting what other groups protest in option or express their concern when one of their particular background is involved in something. you know why they don't do that. they consider themselves americans even though they may be italian americans or african-americans. when many lines were lost. activists who were both black and white and came to the aid of those fighting in the deep south and elsewhere. we suffered accusations of

african-americans, then negros. we didn't say anything. we were an oppressed people in this country. we have a country now that has grown. let us not oppress again. let us accept all of us in loving this country as patriots >> where are the hearings for white supreme si groups. many muslim organizations have made because this is the homeland security committee. this is not the anti-muslim committee. i'm reminded of some of the

hearings that were held. i might say that the attacks were certainly frightening and had people in fear of their life. i believe we should embrace muslim americans. the fairway to do it. the fair comment made >> gas is approaching $4 a

gallon. next call from maryland. good morning. we had it for eight years straight going after eager doers. fear isn't going to be one of their primary goals i'm really not sure. today, they are having this hearing on muslim americans what is the next grun that's going to be called for a committee, i

should say he's made some comments. i will say he's very grateful for the administration. we don't thrive in promoting the fearmongering. one of our clear goals was not to subject individual faiths and communities you are absolutely right i don't want to see the

reigniting in worth they were communist. we don't thrive or survive. the point is we will taken we hope it will stop out any we country that as an outright attack host: mustafa. caller: i want to say a few things first, i anonymous limb but i'm not a terrorist.

i could be a victim of terrorist myself even if i change my name to john and say i'm christian, it's not going to help me. i don't worry about people like this. i don't think they need to apologize for a crime somebody has committed i'll pay the price.

i would expect he has that right to that view. i will also say this. as i was reflecting here this morning. every group has some form of discrime nation. catholic, some form of christianity. someone mentioned the nation of islam.

our constitution stands against it. i am concerned that he would be targeted and would fear for his safety. here today this morning, i hope the chairman would do so. i have concern when you have hearings like this. you put people in the eye of jeopardy. let me again applaud president obama. i will join him in a commitment and meeting with stopping bullying in this nation. that's a good thing. i want it not to be i statement in the committee. many people that work on the committee that do involve the

muslims or none muslims alike. i'm proud of them. that would be the mode in which i operate in this committee. i would be celebrating america. that's what we should be doing. last call comes from georgia. go ahead. thank you and good morning. i would like to ask you in light of all the attacks we have had, have you ever read the core an. what do you think of it? i hope you have a nice day. i will say to you that i have read portions of it. i have quoted from what are the under pinings of the core an that deal with love, charity and peace.

i have seen portions of it. they have shared some of those values with me. i do believe muslim americans sl a value to what we know as love and charity. let's make sure we all stand against those who wish to do us harm. >> the member of the homeland security committee. at 9:30 this morning. homeland security will commence the islamic radicalization in the u.s. you can watch it, listen to it on c-span radio. 90.1 or on xm satellite radio on watch it on line.

coming up next, we'll discuss oil prices. first, this news update from c-span radio. >> the u.s. forces have mistakenly killed a cousin to carzai. a red cross team operated on 55

wounded just this past week. he added his organization is cutoff from access including tripoli where he includes people are affected by fighting. those are some areas on c-span radio. washington today on c-span radio. every week day, we'll take you to capitol hill, the white house and anywhere news is happening. nationwide on xm 132 or on line at c-span.org. available as an i phone app and down load every evening as a

c-span pod cast. >> the most obvious reason is that crude oil is a rising product. currently what's going on in the middle east is the most immediate reason why prices are rising. when you look at how that relates to the everyday american. we are dependant to come out of the united states. when you have unrest going on in

the world, that kind of spooks the market. speculation is always going to go on one way or the other. somebody will try to buy whatever they are looking at i think it should be a goefl us to become less dependant. we can do that because we have a tremendous amount of reserves. my responsibility is for all federal lands. jo i'm talking about not only

the continental shelf how. how would that increase it sends the signal that america is serious. this happened in 2008, if you recall. we had gasoline that spiked over $2 a gallon.

it does take time. that would have the leavening response of prices overtime. whether to open it up. do you know how much oil we use per day. i think reserves that with pointed out a minute ago there was an abrupt run off of oil.

i don't think you tap it for reasons that are necessary right now. have you visited in louisiana? guest: i have not host: before we go to calls. the numbers are on the screen for chairman of the natural resources committee, dock hastings a republican of washington. what are the proofen reserves in the continental united states on federal lands we are not tapping currently.

the new technology we have to go after that. it seems to me, this is the best long term for these fluctuations is for us to utilize. that's in the intermountain west the thought there is old

>> the number for you to dial. is there going to be a series of hearings. let me rephrase this. are oil prices played politically on all sides. i'm not sure. if ever you have a disruption, the american people respond. to the extent that they respond and want their elected officials to do something, we saw that in 2008 with rising gas prices. we are seeing that now. the right thing is to hold hearings and figure out hopefully to allow us to go after these resources. it is only political in a sense that they want leaders to do something.

in this month alone we'll have four hearings. two specifically towards the gulf of mexico they keep finding more reserves down there >> tell us about the clean up effort, is it over?

the only way we can do that is to go down there and talk to people on the ground first call up on the republican line. caller: doc, i was wandering about the morretorium in the gulf. it's ridiculous, now we have $4 a gallon. we are facing a lot of problems. he placed this on the shallow

water. my colleagues down there have said over and over that there is simply a defactor morretorium. as a result, some of the rigs used off shore are going elsewhere host: john on the line. caller: if you would take the

peacers. they are not doing nothing but buying paper and passing it around. for another in alaska where we are drilling all these oil we wells. i read that the oil coming out of the ground is like 3,000 degrees. isn't that right? sticking out of the continental ice shelf out there. as far as reserves

>> there for, i don't want to own this >> any situation we make, we are speculating that price is a good price, so we buy it. this has expanded to a larger sense.

>> $125 a barrel. there's a chance gas prices will rise over $4 a gallon. gas prices over summer expected to average $3.70 a gallon. is there any talk or thought given to taking off the federal gas tax. again, the rising gas prices is not because of the tax that goes to build the highways we drive on.

the secretary was appointed over the responsibility of much of the federal lands. they suspended some active leases and explore torry leases. as a result, that activity has gone down even though we have those known reserves. we do activity on federal lands. this is something we should celebrate, there's a lot of activity on private lands. the production put on private lands has increased by a factor of six.

that's good. my interest in this obviously is because the committee i share has jurisdiction over public lands. >> what is your relationship with the interior relationship. he's very open. i met with him privately. i'm willing to work with him. he is expressed interest in working with me. the american people expect us to work together. i understand that. i mielt have a different philosophy than he does. let's find the common ground. with this issue here. the american people will demand some sort of action. we should be looking at these lands

>> we know there are reserves in canada. let me talk about the alaska pipeline. that's been in place. it's about 800 miles long, something like that. the danger of not renewing leases or looking at alaska production. that pipeline has to be filled. at certain times a year, it does get cold in alaska. the only way can you ensure oil is flowing through it is to drill. we are in danger. if we lose that asset, we lose all the potential of alaska. this is part of the issue i

think should be explored. this administration is slow walking the committee process up there. there's been billions that has been spent. this is all shallow water, by the way, in alaska. >> it is obviously not working. that would be a great budget

cut. i have to understand. you don't always believe everything we read. my question is how much do you think the resent actions printing so much money devaluing the dollar nationally has given rise to oil prices and the value of a barrel of crude. i would say that this immediate spike in oil, is not a result of the reserve but mentioned earlier in the program. whenever you have a disruption in some part of the country

especially in this case, where a majority of the crude lies, you will have a disruption of the prices. i hope we won't get into the purpose. my guess is that that probably is not the case. what about the department of energy? >> the caller makes a very interesting point. largely after the shortages of long gas lines in the 1970s, i painfully remember that. we were importing a third of our crude. now we are importing over past of our crude we don't have

jurisdiction over that. that is again on pick lick hands. not only are we importing more crude but more of our refined product. we haven't built new refineries. >> eliminating federal subsidies is equal to taxing them out of existence. when oil companies are allowed to trillion federal land, do they have to pay for that privilege? >> they do. the federal government on these leases. leasing federal lands for oil production is a net winner. more money comes in than it

costs to regulate them. that's another reason why, if we look at the fiscal situation, we should be utilizing more. the factor is huge, by the way. we are talking with the chairman of the house resources committee, a republican from washington talking about the rising gas prices in this koivenlt going to the telephone from atlanta, georgia. caller: the gas stations with the price -- i'll give you an example. [inaudible] host: i apologize, i think you are on a wireless. we have a bad connection. he was talking about gas prices at gas stations. i'm going to make a question from that. why is every price nearly the same? guest: i don't know the workings

of gas stations but i'm sure they have contracts with their suppliers. i would guess that those contracts vary from place to place. i see that in my home town where some have lower prices than others. that's simply the market at work. the american consumer when they are trying to make the decisions, they'll find where that gas is the lowest price host: minneapolis, jeff a republican. caller: thank you c-span. watch you all the time. been out of work over two years. i've had a lot of time to do research on this subject. i want the people out there to realize since the 1970s, there's been only really one party that has put their hand up to stoch any type of harvesting in the united states.

i think we know who that party is coupled with the environmental groups. that's why we don't have any refineries or drillings. all of this stuff we could have had. we won't be sitting in the position we are in right now. i want to help you out a little bit. i've had time on my hands here. when you are doing this, i suggest you get people that work for you. get some facts behind you on the energy. i'm talking about get the total yearly use of our country in front of you. what percentage is oil, natural gas, nuclear. then go down to the wind and solar argument. this is the big thing you've got in front of you. you can't have an adult conference with an ideology of wind and solar and some other

invention that's going to fall out of the sky that will save us all. >> all right. you make a good point. let me also make this observation. i am very much in favor of all of the above energy plan. i come from the northwest. most our power comes from hydropower. that's a nuclear plan. our district is in favor of wind power. there will be a solar facility put in my district. it is in the best interest of the united states to have as diverse a portfolio as we can. i understand the market is going to dictate. i think it is short sighted to

ignore the abundance of coal in this county. that that should only be part of the mix. it's in our best interest to try to get as diverse a portfolio as possible. i mentioned we have a lot of wind power in my district. there was a time wind didn't really blow. if it could supplement and there were ways to work out peeks and valleys. we have a tremendous abundance of. we've been talking oil, natural gas and coal. >> my district is in central washington. columbia river runs through my district. the two major cities made up of

my home town. they are the other major cities. it's a heavily diverse area. if you like washington apples, they are virtually all from my district. . . most of the wine grapes in my district. >>

caller: good morning, c-span. actually i am an independent. host: we're listening. please go ahead.

caller: to the speculators determine the price of oil at the pump or to the offer tremendous use the crisis as an opportunity to elevate gas prices? number two, what about regulation? we hear about too much regulation come up but we see the situation in louisiana where we did not have enough regulation, so you cannot have it both ways. host: very good questions. regulation and taking advantage. guest: first of all, i am sure that there are people that will take an opportunity to purchase a product with the idea of

hopefully making some money on that. the one way to level the playing field on that is to the increase supply of water the product is. in this case obviously it is crude oil. as far as regulation, we had a very extensive hearing on the president's commission regarding the oil spill, but there are several things left out that we do not know yet. there are other things coming in definitivecan draw and the conclusion. we do not know all of the intricacies of exactly what happened in that case yet, and we're waiting for more information that should be forthcoming in the next month or so. >> e-mails have come in for you, doc hastings.

that is pat in new hampshire. this is from perak -- peoria, illinois. guest: i am talking about the oil fell as far as the techniques. i will tell and respond to the calller that the techniques are getting better virtually every day on extracting oil. i mean, we might have known about these reserves, but there is no way we can quantify it or get to the point of getting them out unless the technology got better. the technology is getting better. host: stephen illinois --

guest: for acting has been a technique by oil-producing states -- fracking has been a technique by oil-producing states for some years. part of the reason for that is because the process happens under the water table. now, there may be from time to time a situation that exists, but if you look at it in total, that simply has not been the problem. again some of the technology has gone better and better over time. host: new mexico. guest: i would agree with that

sentiment. i remember hearing that we had so much reserves 30 years ago, and it seems like when we finally get down to the exploration and drill, we find out the reserves is even larger than what we thought. that does not happen on every occasion, but certainly it is showing up. certainly at the new technologies come into play, i think it is to our advantage of advantage of that. host: tim on the republican line. caller: i want to ask a question first, please. how could you help me to get c- span3? [laughter] host: very good question. i will direct you to somebody in the company, and i will hear about this after word. if you call peter kiley, the

vice president in charge of such things. he is a real good guy. 202-737-3220, i think that is the main number. i hope that is the right number. that is the main number for c- span. and you ask for peter kiley. tell him you spoke to the other peter. he will give you all the ammunition you need to get c- span33 on your cable company. the best thing would be to use the cable company that you use in shreveport. we appreciate the attitude. now i will let you go and talk to doc hastings. caller: i have called my cable

guy here. here is my question? -- what we have to do, these folks in louisiana down south -- them folks did not like obama now, because so many folks are out of work and we have some of oil, but we have to get a president in there. we have to take back the senate, and we have to got to get all of this american oil and put people back to work, sir. this is all obama's plan. guest: let me respond by saying that i know and have heard from my colleagues down in louisiana about the job loss that has gone on because of the moratorium. i have heard that over and over again let me just make this observation. and i think it is something we need to keep in mind. that is we have a great system of government, and we have

checks and balances. those checks and balances are called elections. clearly the election of 2010 was a very significant election because of the change in the u.s. house and the change in statehouses and state legislatures across the country. is that when to happen again in 2012? they tune. that is so much the great part of the system of government is our ability to change directions if we have a problem. -- stay tuned. i know people down in louisiana have a different view of this government done so many others for the reason you point out. i sympathize with that. that is why i think we should utilize the resources we have right now in order to become less energy dependence because of the jobs it creates in national security issues. we will look forward to the 2012

elections. host: new york city. preston. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am always fascinated when people look to take jobs in an industry that is dead end. the oil reserves are down. it is more expensive to drill for oil in this country. we do not have an energy crisis, we have an oil crisis. we have plenty of energy. we have solar and wind and can do more with the electric. kohl? give me a break with coal and oil. -- coal? 2007 was the hottest year on record that we have, only to be surpassed by 2010. i love politicians that tell me there is no global warming problem. i am supposed to believe them when nasa tells me we have a

problem. mit says we have a problem. the national academy of sciences. politicians say we do not have a global warming problem. host: let's get an answer to that. and guest: first of all, we're talking about different things entirely. i pointed out a moment ago that i am very much in favor of what i would call and all of the above energy plan. i am in favor of hydro and nuclear, which is the cleanest air type -- clean as energy we can produce. yet there are those from the environmentalist that do not want to do nuclear. there is a mixed bag, but my point is this, and i think this is an important point -- it is silly for us to not ignore the tremendous resources we have

with coal and oil and gas. they are going to be part of our energy mix. our technology can clean it up. i remember growing up on the west coast when it really was that down there. the technology has emerged that that is not the case that to be. that is the case in other metropolitan areas across the country. for americans to walk away from those challenges, especially when these resources are so important to our economy, i think a shore-sided. that is the point we should make. we should have that debate, but we should have and all of the above energy plan, rather than picking winners and losers. you can either mandate it or

incentivize it. i am much more in the incentivize camp. the markets over time will take care of it. that is what made america great, people looking at new technology and exploring the technology and utilizing it at a broader scale. guest: we have talked about the hearings you will be holding this month. what about legislation? are you introducing legislation to affect the supply chain? guest: yes, we are. we are in the process of developing that that would be so -- specific to offshore. obviously with the price of gasoline spiking up, at this process has accelerated. that is what we were going to look out over time, but now that it has accelerated, we will be much more aggressive on it. host: can you give us a preview of what is in the legislation? guest: there are a variety of

things. the permitting process needs to be looked at in order to speed it up. i think states should be more involved in the process. for example, the state of virginia wanted to utilize their offshore. there are a variety of things we're looking at, and we will be rolling goes out very soon. host: a few minutes left. arkansas. caller: i will tell you what the price of gas is going up. doc hastings said it is a global commodity, and any time there is a disruption, the price will go up. there are other factors involved in this. the speculators. wall street came in and rob america. we let the crux back in the house again. -- crooks back in the house again. mitch mcconnell or one of the

congressman said one of the main things he is going to do, he is going to make sure president obama is a one-german economy. that is what is happening. that is the only reason why gas prices are going up. the american people you need to wake up and smell the coffee. guest: i would agree with you because it is an observation that i had because of it being a world wide commodity. there are other factors involved, but i would respectfully disagree that this is strictly a political issue. i would draw a conclusion on the other side of that by saying that actions of this administration has overtime exacerbated the problem. in the long-term because bringing the facility's on-line quickly takes awhile to do that, no question about it. the action of this administration would suggest that in the future we will have

even greater problems. nobody can predict the futures, , but the actions of what is happening right now suggest that would be the case. host: mike from florida. caller: good morning, mr. hastings. i really appreciate your candor, and i hope you will stand up very strongly. you have an adversary to the fringe. i call their energy policy to suit their energy policy with wind and solar. basically the policy is run on btu's. one of the things when you get into these hearings that i think, and i really need to to address and pressure on is this issue of ethanol and the subsidies and the fact that the cost of ethanol in the gas

supply and all of the things that have to go with it, all the side of beck's, blending, the cost, the water usage that is wasted in producing the corn, that increases -- increases our food prices dramatically. taken out.ds to take be guest: you make a great point. again, i will go back to what i said before. there should be a diverse mix within our economy. there are two ways to affect an outcome. you can incentivize or mandate. i do recognize the incentives, which have been with the tax code, should have a time limit. industries mature over time. we should celebrate that, but

they should be able to compete in the marketplace. host: richard doc hastings. a republican from washington. guest: it is doc hastings. that is legal. host: coming up, a discussion on federal workers pay, whether or not they are overpaid. right back after this news update. >> there is a partial evacuation under way at los -- london's heathrow airport due to a security alert. we will keep you updated on that story appeared in the unemployment numbers show more people applied for benefits last week, rising from a three-year low. it is the second increase in three weeks. the rise came after applications fell to the lowest level in more than three years. the latest report shows after the presidents day holiday. the commerce department says the

january trade deficit increased just over 15%, due in large part to a surge in oil prices which helped push import prices up to the highest pace in 15 years. this giving the country the highest trade deficit in more than six months. this is bad for the u.s. economy when imports outpaced exports more jobs go to foreign workers than u.s. workers. donald trump is expected to put discussed the present show -- expected to discuss a presidential. he has said that he will decide by june whether to seek the republican nomination to challenge president obama in 2012. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> the c-span networks provide coverage of politics, public affairs, and non-fiction books

and american history. it is all available online, radio, and social media sites. we take c-span on the road with our digital bus, and local content vehicle. bringing our resources to your community. it is washington your way. the c-span networks. now available in more than 1 million homes. created by cable, provided that the public service. >> presidential contenders have been making stops in key primary states. this week, michelle bachman in new hampshire at a fund-raiser for the republican state committee sunday at 6:00 27:30 eastern and pacific. host: on your screen now is ed o'keefe. the washington post" newspaper.

he is here to discuss whether or not federal workers are overpaid. if we can start with that question, are federal workers over paid? guest: it depends on who you ask bottom line. house republicans, the oversight committee, which has jurisdiction over federal personnel posted this hearing on whether or not they are. they invited the director of the office of personnel management, basically the government's chief human resources officer. and they invited fiscal analysts from the american enterprise institute in heritage foundation. depending on who you ask, they either are or they are not, but there is agreement that the federal pay system is in need of reform. it is about 15 steps. they all agreed this is a system that was established decades ago

and is in need of a serious overhaul. host: why did this discussion began several months ago? we have been hearing about this in washington. guest: it really began more than a year ago when republicans started talking about this in the early stages of the campaign. there were a series of proposals that were put forth but were not taken seriously. the one-two for low federal workers for two weeks. they want to cut overseas pay of diplomats. fired federal tax delinquent workers, because they're obviously not fulfilling their duties as good, upstanding citizens. the more serious one would be a more serious discussion about revamping the federal pay system, but no one has introduced anything serious about that yet.

host: we of set aside our fourth line for federal workers. we definitely want to hear from you this morning. our regular numbers are up as well. /democrats, republicans, and all others. john barry, the director of office of director -- director of office of personnel management. here is a short version of what he had to say. -- short portion of what he had to say. >> it is not fair to compare federal employes to the entire civilian labor force. i do not have short order cooks or waitresses. god bless all of those. they should be paid as they

should be paid, but to say that federal employees should be paid based on that is not appropriate. you need to compare apples to apples. the fortune 500 companies are much better comparison when you look at who we are competing for in terms of recruitment and retention. guest: this is the argument the obama administration has been making from the start. for too long they argue that people who are coming out of college with great degrees in fantastic backgrounds and an ability to tackle a job and do a really good job are not looking at the government because it takes too long to get a job. the first thing the administration did was getting the process down from 500 days to apply and get a final answer in get hired to 80 days. 500 days in some cases it took. the reported just last week they are down to 105 days.

about three and a half months. the goal is 80. they believe they are on their way within the next year. it is a system that requires link the essays. -- lengthy essays. now it is cover letter, reza sume. the argument he is making about comparisons between advanced people in the private sector vs skilled workers and the government sector is an interesting one. for so long critics, especially conservative fiscal analysts, have said if you take government data and look at the federal work force as coal, 2 million workers, on average the salary of a federal worker is tens of

thousands of dollars potentially larger than the private sector work force. one estimate was something about $100,000 vs 60,000 in the private sector. part of the recent increase is so big is because congressional republicans have started to account for the general -- generous leave packages, health coverage, and an ability to graduate pretty quickly and frequently into a more senior position, whereas that does not exist necessarily in the private sector. they're saying compare a justice department lawyer to a lawyer that works on wall street or in some other big law firm. compare of veterans affairs surgeon who a guy that works at syenite in new york. he said we do not have retail

clerks. we do not have other clerical positions necessarily. we have park rangers, border patrol rangers. government lawyers and government nurses. host: here is a little bit from another testimony. >> the second thing that congress should understand is on average it over pays federal employees. my research shows that after you account for education, experience, and occupations so that you can make an apples to apples comparison, one to do that, the average federal employee makes 22% more per hour than they would if there were in the private sector, including the value of the benefits, the compensation raises it to 30%. paying the premium will cost taxpayers almost $50 billion this year. guest: there is the conservative

argument. when you account for paid leave in the fact that health insurance is covered, not all of it, but a good percentage of it, on average government workers are in a better salary. for years that was an accepted thing. it was expected in some cases. have yourself a good pay and benefits package. with the fiscal situation as it is, republicans very concerned about this. we saw what happened last night in wisconsin and all across the midwest. many are suggesting that at some point that debate will have to come to washington. part of the way to do that would be to fundamentally restructure the way they are paid. the other would be to cut back on the amount the government

contributes to a federal workers' health-care package in the other would be to curtail the work force. host: first call for ed o'keefe. columbia, maryland. evelyn on the republicans line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. first of all, i worked for 30 years in private industry and then went to work for the federal government. i do not think the federal government is being paid too much. we must remember many of the federal employees have more than one degree and they earn money that they are making. this is the united states of america. anyone can apply for a couple job. there is nothing to stop them from applying. i do not feel it is fair for them to continue to wine and complain about the money that federal employees are making, because they are making a fair

and equitable amount of money for the work that they do. that is an argument you hear from a lot of current and former federal workers that on average federal employees have advanced degrees in their much more educated than the private sector, because in many cases you need to have a specialized focus. whether you are a government scientist or doctors, these require a higher degree. host: the next call is not from st. louis. good morning. -- is matt from st. louis. manyr: about the subjects, americans do not know about the sophisticated system of federal

employment. it is tough to get a federal job without the proper education. i do not think the federal employees are overpaid. this is because i have the experience, public experience and social security, and i have faith that the employees, that they are quality patriots. my question is that without the education how can a citizen that is being left out, how can they be involved in getting an entry level position, because we are the ones that support the federal employees, and we do not get the recognition. that is my comment. guest: it is a good one. i think that is part of what the current administration is trying to do. making it easier for people like

yourself who are looking for a good position to get a federal position. if you are looking for a practical way to start, i would suggest usa.gov and the process is such now that you can basically go in there in search and pretty simple ways for positions in your area that might be of interest. the other thing you can do is call your member of congress. defenders of the federal work force will point out that 85% of the federal government workers work outside the beltway. the more reminders that lawmakers have of that, perhaps the more thoughtful the ongoing conversation, the future conversations will be. the grand majority of the federal work force is well beyond washington and not here working in the buildings around this one. host: this tweet --

a good question. i do not know the exact number. if you are making more than $100,000 per year, it is for a few reasons. you may be in a very specialized position. a senior justice department lawyer. perhaps another senior career official at any of the different agencies and departments. you have probably been in the government more than 20 years. you have graduated through the system. most of those positions probably located in the washington area or in some of the larger regional offices across the country. there is concern about the fact that you can basically get in the system and write it out and continue to see your salary grow, but others say that is what happens in the private sector also. if you put in your time of the company, you will graduate into

a six-figure salary likely over time. it is not a huge percentage of the millions that work for the government, but because of the older, more qualified nature of the federal work force there is a good percentage that do it. it is not something necessarily that someone can apply for immediately and took to get unless you have very qualified experiences and skill sets that would qualify you for that role. host: the next call talking about federal workers pay. michigan. sabrina, democrat. caller: thank you. the one thing that concerns me is governors and fire fighters andnty years four they are collecting fall

unemployment -- employment and health care. a lot of people today are not even getting to have pensions and they are paying for a lot of their own health care. i am wondering if this is not with the resentment lies. guest: it is a small percentage of people that are doing this. there was a fantastic piece in the paper yesterday that talks about officials who are collecting up to six different pensions having for six different positions over the course of their government career. this is are rare occurrence. indeed there are ways for people to game the system. at the federal level, an interesting thing to watch, and something robert gates has been talking about, is that when you have someone complete their military career and then go into either the private sector or civilian federal jobs and continued to collect the health-

care system benefit for the military, they only pay a few hundred dollars per year for the entire system. the premiums have not gone up in more than five or 10 years. gates is arguing for those that have left military service, but not fully retired, congress should find a way to increase premiums to either have them pay more to encourage them to go on to someone else's system, because those health care costs are really starting to tax the department of defense perr and. host: we have a special line if you are a febrile employee of want to talk about your -- federal employee and one to talk about your pay. caller: i find a hard to believe the first calller was a republican.

give me a break. even "usa today" said federal workers are earning double what their private counterparts are making. a lot of that benefit is their pensions. i do business all over the country, and i can tell you that they do. obama has hired over 100,000 federal workers since he has been in office. we have lost a million private jobs. there was an article in regard to one-third of americans are now basically having government handouts. welfare, wages, medicare -- one- third of the population in this country is getting some sort of government assistance or government check. when europe is trying to get out of socialism, we seem to be lurching towards it.

guest: he is citing a series of statistics that has really shape this debate. they say it is doing that unfair apples to oranges comparison. and they believe it is not doing a more just comparison. it is also -- and to some extent this is a fair comparison. it is accounting for the benefits and the time that the government employees are essentially guaranteed. in the private sector they are not necessarily. he was pointing out that over the course of the obama administration, 100,000 jobs have been created by the government. that is also a figure being disputed. part of this is because of the temporary census bureau positions that were created. there were 600,000 that were

created. part of that is there have been all lot of physicians added at justice for national security purposes. a lot of the positions were appropriated and administered in the final years of the bush administration. host: massachusetts. john on the independent line. you are on with ed o'keefe. there aren't it true lots of college-educated people that do not have jobs? is this the united states of america or the united states of wall street or bp or exxon mobile or any other corporation that could run from here after they pollute the water, poison the people? we're talking about having power plants here. in the 1970's we to have power plants here but they to put in poor neighborhoods where people

ended up getting cancer, liver disease, kidney disease. millions of dead tuna or sardines are in ocean right now. host: got your point. anything there you want to respond to? guest: i have family who lived next to this town. yes, many college educated people are unfortunately out of a job. host: according to paul white, in 1999 there were 11 million federal government employees. 4.4 million were contractors. 2002, 12.1 government employees. 5.1 million of which were contractors. in 2005, 14.6 million government employees. 7.6 million or contractors. guest: paul is the only one

sitting down to try to figure out the number of private contractors who are working for the government. this is the great untold story. if you live in the washington area, you are certainly aware of it, because just about every other person you meet works as a contractor for the government. and the other one is a lawyer or in graduate school. it is true, the government's dependence on contractors to perform government services has ballooned since the mid 1990's. the current administration is attempting to cut back on that. cut hundredsg to of billions. there is an ongoing effort to in source a lot of goods and positions that have been performed by private firms. the argument being the government will have better oversight of those positions and

therefore save money. that is an argument that is certainly being debated. the incredible growth of contractors is another reason why if there is a government shut down in the coming months over the budget negotiations you might see less of a government shut down because of much of hiit is dependent upon the contract and services. host: the numbers that we just read from professor paul white of new york university, does this include the military? guest: as i recall it does. he is essentially accounting for anyone in this country who is accepting a government paycheck. remember, seasonal and part-time workers are in there as well. host: the next call is from excelsior springs, missouri. caller: i would like to say that government workers are not

overpaid. people work for a lower wage because they knew there were going to get decent benefits. this is another republican smokescreen to keep the people divided. people need to open up their eyes and see what is really going on. it is incredible how often you hear from the blue are not in the work force that believe they are overpaid. most americans do not think that people should live their collective bargaining rights. it is an interesting conundrum, especially for republicans who are pushing to have this cut back. the next question --

o'keefe onll for ed federal workers pay. doug from michigan. are you with us? caller: thank you for taking my call this morning. i am a disabled veteran. i think they're overpaid because you have physicians assistants working in the hospital doing the same things doctors do. i do not see any of your congress going to walter reed. i do not see any of that. nd i want to know why tehe v.a., if you happen to get medicare or medicaid, why they charge medicare for service to get at a veterans hospital, even

though it is for 100 percent disabled veterans? guest: does a good question for which i do not have a total answer. obviously veterans affairs is a place that is undergoing a bit of an overall for sure. there has been a real effort underway to make this process some flair for guys like yourself. host: north carolina. cheryl on the federal workers line. caller: for years i worked on labor contracts for information technology, which specialized,-- which is specialized, but i have a concern that a lot of issues are not being pointed out. i think that some of this is motivated by the fact that there are a lot of corporations that

want the contract in profit. we hired so many contractors, and i monitored so many contracts, and bear in mind that these companies that want the federal jobs because most of the jobs will have to be done have a profit motive. on top of that, in order to award the contracts and honor to the contracts, you have a huge procurement work force to have to support that adds additional costs. doing away with the federal work force or reducing the rates will not save the kind of money it is being presented as being saved. besides that, when we contract -- when we outsourced these things, we are pulling loaded rates to companies that account for their profits, benefits, a department of labor statistics

rates that are supposed to be fair and accurate. it is not necessarily a cheaper thing for us to outsource these, but i think a lot of what is being said now is motivated by the fact that there are corporations that see this as a future profit center. guest: this is part of ongoing discussion about this and part of the reason why there has been serious discussion about in sourcing some of these positions, because for so long because have been able to get out of control in some cases. host: the growth of contractors has risen almost exponentially. guest: once the pentagon starts doing something come up the rest of the government takes notice. secretary gates has made it very clear that the size of these large weapons programs and other

contracts that have been allowed to continue at a great cost are no longer needed. that there are positions that should be done by government employees, the civilian side, and is working to identify them. they want people like cheryl who are essentially responsible for overseeing these contracts. their job is to keep tabs on the large deals they have with private firms to make sure the trains are running on time in getting the money's worth. there is a need for thousands more. we need to create positions to oversee the private contracts. host: what about the growth of employment on capitol hill? guest: that is a harder number to track and something that has not been discussed too seriously. other than the fact that they ar

e looking at czars. there is concern that these positions have unchecked powers because they are executive- branch positions that do not require senate confirmation and there for congressional oversight. there are just a few dozen positions at the most. budgets are pretty tightly controlled on capitol hill and doled out according to seniority. there is very little room for growth appear. host: there is a tweet -- ocean city, new jersey. republican. caller: i would like to make a comment and ask a question as well. i work for the government for many years and made many observations while setting administration. first of all, i have a problem

with the question. i do not think the question is whether federal workers are getting paid too much. i think it depends on what job they're doing and how well they're doing and whether it benefits the public or not. the other thing is i think you need to think about the ratio of those that are doing work for the government'. i think you need to look to whistle-blowers that have stuck their necks out for trying to tell the american public about what is really going on. you need to get these people to give the inside information. i really think the answer depends. i think the real problem is that while this is a provocative question, it does not rprovide a basis for rational discussion. i would like to see some investigative reporting on this. guest: he points out a good

point. this is a very new wogs conversation -- nuanced conversation, as most conversations are in washington. our government accountants paid enough? if you were to have a conversation at that level, you might discover the answer is much different than over all. a credit to c-span, "the washington post" for hosting a discussion of this because it is a very important and complex issue that has the potential to play a big role in the coming years. certainly, yes, i have done this for a few years now and you better believe there is no simple answer to this. host: if people want to see your reporting of this,

washingtonpost.com/eye. if you were in the washington area, please pick up an addition and check out our fed page in the coverage of my colleagues and i regarding a host of government issues and congressional debate on all of these things. host: what about pay for performance for government workers? guest: there was a big push during the bush administration to use more of this. there was concern that you have the potential to have bosses playing favorites with employees they like and punishing others who may be doing a good job of fulfilling the agency mission, but for whatever reason are liked by management and therefore could get punished. -- but for whatever reason are not liked by management and therefore could be punished.

that is very difficult to implement. it has been talked about, and maybe part of the conversations federaleforming the pay system. the efforts during the bush administration at least were widely seen as effective for the most part. host: the power of public unions. guest: still pretty powerful in this town. you have basically three major ones. those are the three big ones. there are other specialized ones. they are quite powerful. if you look at the labor statistics, unionization in the public sector much larger than a was in the private sector.

the largest swap of workers seeking or considering new membership work for the transportation security administration. they are the last undiscovered bit of public employees available. the election starts today for the 40,000 workers across the country to decide between the afge and ntu and whether they should have exclusive rights and representation of them. getting those workers would be a huge q -- to for either of the unions. when they were created after 9/11, there were not giving collective bargaining rights. the administration has now decided they should have them. republicans not happy about that, because they were the ones to push to make sure they did not have them. by the end of april we should know whether they chose one of

those unions or not euthanize at all. -- unionedized at all. as you cut back the public sector, you saw the increase in contract employment and a huge increase during the bush administration. you are seeing an increase of federal workers during obama's reign. you will probably see that continue in the short-term, unless the next few budgets curtail the size of the work force. host: maryland. please go ahead with your question for ed o'keefe. ♪ callercaller: i have a couplef questions. you work for a great company. i work for them myself. my question is the private sector making enough money as it

should be? there is no such thing as being overpaid. it depends on what type of work you were doing. another thing is, why do they have this guy from heritage foundation, which is a lobbyist, which he probably is, testifying on something? you know which way he is leaving, and that is ok with me. that is politics. it blows my mind that he does not see what is going on. you are cord to vote for who you want to vote for, but the republicans better remember when you demonize these people, you wonder why you will start losing elections. they need to concentrate on making wages fair for people in the private sector. that is why you have unions there to help people. that is where it is. it is just a one-sided thing, and it is blowing my mind.

guest: good to know you work for "the washington post" as well. john barry of the obama administration. he is obviously more sympathetic to federal workers. there was a pretty balanced set of witnesses at this hearing yesterday. host: dayton, ohio. vernon is a federal worker. only one minute left. caller: i am retired but worker. i am a veteran of the marine corps. i worked for the government of theout i got oout marine corps. i worked 23 years for the corps of engineers. i have lived in four different countries around the world. this whole thing of trying to get rid of government workers

started back in 1970 when i worked for the air force and we had to take surveys of all of the manufacturers around in dayton. the government workers overall were paid much less. that is why they have been trying to bring government workers online. host: have to leave it there. guest: this is a conversation that is far from over and an interesting one. i think what we're seeing of the state level is something we will see that the federal level in the next coming months. host: ed o'keefe, washingtonpost.org/federal-eye is his website. we want to show you what is live on c-span3. on c-span3.