you know where all the states are and what order they come in. he ran once before and he would be a serious candidate. >> who do love as a candidate? who would you want to see run and win the republican nomination and become president of united states? who is the tree candidate? >> oh, dear, because my job is to make sure they take the pledge i work with all of them on taxes and spending, i will not have that kind of pronouncements now or later. i presume i will cheerfully support the one who wins the republican nomination and pledges not to raise taxes and will be opposed to obama. beyond that, i want to cheerfully work with each one of them. >> let me turn back to budget members. let's look at the 2012 budget

resolution. budget chairman paul ryan, a republican, says he will try to tackle medicare and medicaid. is that wise politically tax can be done? >> with a republican house, a divided senate, and a democratic president, i don't believe it is possible to get meaningful entitlement reform long term. i don't think it is possible to get meaningful tax reform given the politics of it. the democrats want to go on a different direction and the concept of compromise works if we are trying to get to the same place. if somebody wants to move west and somebody wants to movies, what is the compromise? if you try to get from washington to california and you are in west virginia, that is a compromise. you're getting their more slowly than you might want to. if your feet are getting wet and

people start talking french around to, you are moving in the wrong direction. i am not sure that there is a compromise to be had. that said, if the republicans put on the table significant spending restraints on this for domestic discretionary and left the senate and the president alone and reform of entitlements as we did with welfare reform and as they are looking to do with medicare which can be reformed in many ways like welfare reform. and's the money for states here is the 3000 pages of regulation gone. you decide. you have slightly less money, less money going in to the future, but complete control and how to do it. >> we are out of time and we want to say thanks to our guests in the studio. e we haveric wassen and jonathan allen. thank you for your questions this morning.

back to our guest, grover norquist, president of americans for tax reform. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> potential republican presidential contenders have been making stops in key primary states. this weekend, minn. congresswoman michelle bachmann in nashua, new hampshire at a fund-raiser for the republican state committee. that is today at 6:00 27:30 p.m. eastern and pacific. >> 1/3 of americans have no savings of any kind. 1/4 of mortgages are under water and 1/5 of our wealth is wiped out in the great crash. >> john holsman advises governments and businesses about the financial risk of the world today and tomorrow. tonight, his insights into money and foreign policy on

cspan's "q &a." >> on thursday, new york republican congressman peter king held the first of a series of hearings examining the threat he calls the radicalization of american muslims. over 50 democrat sent a letter to him, chairman of the house, and security committee, warned that the hearings will jeopardize the trust between moslems and law enforcement. witnesses included congressman john dingell will represent dearborn, the largest arab- american community in america and rep keith ellison, congress's first muslim representative. this is one hour, 45 minutes.

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>> the committee on homeland security will come to order. the committee is meeting today to hear testimony on the extent of radicalization in the american-moslem community and investigate the committee response. the chair wishes to remind our guests today that demonstrations from the audience including the use of signs and placards as well as verbal outbursts are a

violation of the rules of the house and the chair wishes to thank our guests for their cooperation in maintaining order and proper decorum. in the interest of time, the ranking member and that -- and i have agreed that we have to remember witnesses testifying on panel 1. as a prior consultation, i ask unanimous consent to congressman dingell, congressman ellison, and congressman wolf as member witnesses not to be subject to questions from committee members. they will testify as one panel. without objection, so ordered. i believe the ranking member has unanimous consent request -- >> yes, i would like to add

unanimous consent that congressman carson, pasquale, and green be allowed to sell about them without objection so ordered. >> i will now recognize myself for opening statements. let me thank all of the witnesses, the member panel, and the witnesses who traveled to be with us today. thank you very much for giving the time in what i believe to be a very valuable and important hearing. the hearing will be the first and a series of hearings dealing with the critical issue of the radicalization of muslim americans. i am well aware that the announcement of these hearings is has generated considerable controversy and operated -- opposition. some of his opposition such as my colleague mr. ellison and mr. pasquale has been measured and thought bill. other opposition has ranged from

disbelief to paroxysms of rage and hysteria. let me make it clear today that i remain convinced that these hearings must go forward and will. to back down would be an -- a surrender of political correctness. our responsibility is to protect america from a terrorist attack. despite what passes for conventional wisdom in certain circles, there is nothing radical or on american in holding these hearings. indeed, congressional investigation of muslim american radicalization is the logical response to repeated an urgent warnings that the obama administration has been making in recent months. just this past sunday, dennis mcdonough, made a major speech

on radicalization stating that al-qaeda and its adherents have increasingly turned to another troubling tactic -- attempting to recruit and radicalize people to terrorism here in the united states. for a long time, many in the u.s. thought we were immune from this threat. that was false hope and false comfort. this threat is real and it is serious. he went on to say that al qaeda does this for the express purpose of trying to convince the muslim-americans to reject their country and attacked their fellow americans. i should also add my own personal conversations with mr. mcdonough, he told me to go forward with the hearing and the administration welcomes congressional involvement. in late december, attorney- general holder said a growing number of my young americans being radicalized and willing to

take up arms against our country keeps him awake at night. two weeks before that, the attorney general defended the fbi's sting operation against a radical who attempted a terror attack during the christmas tree lighting ceremony in portland. the attorney-general said he made no apology for this operation. he said that those who characterize the fbi's activities as entrapments simply do not have their facts straight. one month ago, secretary napolitano testified before this committee and said the threat level today is as high as it has been since september 11 because of increased radicalization in our country. i would ask the audience and the committee to notice this chart. in the last two years alone, these are terror plot which have been blocked by our government. virtually every part of united states is affected by this.

those in the northeast may have more threats but we found out that no one is immune. this committee cannot live in denial which is what some of us would do when they suggest that this hearing diluted focus by investigating threats unrelated to al qaeda. the department of homeland security and this committee were formed in response to the al qaeda attacks of september 11. there is no equivalency of threat between al-qaeda and neo- nazis and violent extremists or other isolated madmen. only al-qaeda and its affiliate in this country are part of an international threat to our nation. by the justice department's own records, not one tear-related case last two years involved neo-nazis, environmental extremists, malicious, or nt- work group. i have repeatedly said that the

overwhelming majority of muslim americans are outstanding americans and make enormous contributions to our country. there are really is we cannot ignore like a pupil at said 15% of american-muslim men between 18 and 29 could support suicide bombings. this is a segment of the community that al qaeda is attempting to recruit. to combat this threat, moderate leadership must emerge from the muslim community. -- a minority staff concluded in its report that was entitled "violent islamic extremism," this report concluded that muslim community and religious leaders must play a more visible role in discrediting and providing alternatives to violent islamist ideologies. responsible muslim-american leaders must reject discredited

groups like c.a.r.e. the committee on islamic relations. they were a co-conspirator involving the holy land foundation. i found it shocking and sad that the mainstream media accepted the accusations as if it were a legitimate organization. thankfully, fbi director mueller has ceased all contact with c.a.r.e. i would hope that all law enforcement officials would follow the lead of the epic -- fbi director. al qaeda realizes that the measures we have put in place our last 9.5 years make it very difficult to launch a large- scale attack against our homeland from outside the country. that is why they have altered

their strategy and are using people living illegally in the united states. these include new york city subway bomber, fort hood terrorist, jihad jane, the little rock recruiting center, his father is a witness here today and dozens of individuals associated with the somalis terrorist organization. one of those young man was radicalized in indianapolis and was sent to somalia and was killed. let me thank all the witnesses for giving up their valuable time to be with us today. i want to express special thanks to tobledsoe. these brave man have endured suffering no father should have to go through. their courage and spirit put a

human face on our which islamists radicalization has inflicted and will continue to inflict on good families especially those in the muslim community unless we put aside political correctness and define who the enemy truly is. as we approach the 10-year anniversary of the september 11 attacks, we cannot allow the memory of that tragic day to fade away. we must remember that the days following the attacks, we were all united in our dedication to fight back against al-qaeda and its ideology. today, we must be fully aware that homegrown radicalization is part of the al qaeda strategy to continue attacking the united states. al qaeda is actively targeting the american moslem community for recruitment. the hearing today will address this dangerous trend and now it is my privilege to recommend -- to recognize the distinguished ranking member of the committee, the gentleman from mississippi,

mr. thompson. >> thank you very much. as we begin today's hearing, i want to take a moment to thank you for agreeing to my request to invite representative dingell chair faca. they will add to be an understanding of the outreach and cooperation between the muslim community and government officials. i want to reiterate my belief that a hearing on the linkage between extreme ideology and violent actions should be a broad based examination. yesterday, the fbi made an arrest in the recent martin luther king day bombing attempt. news reports identified the suspect as a member of the same white supremacist group that influenced the oklahoma city bomber, timothy mcveigh. i urge you, mr. chairman, to hold a hearing examining the homeland security threat posed

by anti-government and white supremacist groups. as a committee on homeland security, our mission is to examine threats to this nation's security. a narrow focus that excludes unknown threats lacks clarity and maybe a myopic. our personal experiences play a role in how we see the world. we have all come to this place from somewhere else. as i understand it, the chairman's background includes the history of a country divided by religion and torn by a prolonged and violent struggle. i am from mississippi. my personal history is one which has known of violence as the bedrock principle and the struggle for societal change and political rights. religion played a role in that struggle, too. we are not here in these places now. as members of congress, our

words transcend this hearing room and we must be vigilant that our words and actions do not in flame. acknowledgment of an obligation to be responsible does not equal political correctness. we must be mindful that this country is conducting two wars. our words and actions cannot be used to endanger our soldiers. i had hoped that this hearing could be used as a forum to point out a recent report of the southern poverty law center. last week, they released a chilling report. the number of active hate groups in the united states top over 1000 for the first time and the anti-government movement has expanded dramatically for the second straight year. the southern poverty law center poverty emphasis that set -- emphasizes that several factors have caused this growth.

it includes resentment over the changing racial demographics of this country, frustration over the lagging economy, and the mainstreaming of conspiracy theories and other demonizing propaganda aimed at minorities and the government. i am particularly troubled that much of the current vitriol has been directed towards the president and first lady. in the wake of the shooting in texas, in a public meeting, a member of congress heard a threat made against the light of the president that was greeted with laughter. we live in troubling times. i have heard concerns that the hearing today will stoke a climate of fear and distrust in the muslim community. it may also increase the fear and distrust of the moslem community. our region cooperation for law enforcement officials may become more difficult. as we consider the possible

domestic effects of our actions, we must also consider the possible effects abroad. as i look at the recent uprisings in north africa and the middle east i am struck by the fact that these movements are inspired by secular notions of democracy and freedom. theocracy seems to be on the sidelines. in scores of hearings on briefings, members of this community have been told that al-qaeda remains a recruiting tool and a notion that the powers of the west are lined up against the people of the middle east. the u.s. is accused of engaging in a modern day crusade against islam. we cannot yield this like a place to rest. i cannot help but wonder how propaganda about this hearing focuses on american-muslim communities and will be used by those who seek to inspire a new generation of suicide bombers. i yield back.

>> i thank the gentleman from mississippi. i would remind other members of the community that opening statements may be submitted for the record. i would like to welcome our first panel. the gentleman from michigan, the dean of the house, congressman dingell. keith ellsison and congressman wolf. i would ask you to try to summarize your statements at this time. it is my privilege to ask chairman dingell to begin. >> i think your microphone is -- >> i thank you as -- and the ranking member for your courtesy and also the members of the committee. this is a hearing which has great potential.

the risk to our nation is one of the assigned businesses of this particular committee. .. rticular committee. for the record, i'm john dingell, member of congress from michigan's 15th congressional district. as you mentioned, i'm dean of the house. i have engaged in the practice of being chair of committees for many years. also in running new committees. i represent a very diverse congressional district which we have all races, religionsnd all parts ofhe world society represented. i represent a very fine community of muslim americans that i'm here to tell you something which you know and that is they are local, decent,

honorablamericans. they hold elected office. they have immigrated to our state from all parts of the midd east. they're lebanese, palestinian, iraqi, egyptians amongst others, iranians. they come from all parts of the world. muslim americans are honorabl citizens. they are much distressed about what we are seeing going on. they a not only ordinary citizens but professionals, elected officials, members of the state legislature, people who sit on the courts as judges an persons who hold other high offices in our society. they are almost, without exception, honorable, loyal citizens and as i incated, they are distressed as much as we are about the behavior of al

qaeda and other threats to their nation as we are to sharing their concerns about what is of danger to our nation. as i mentioned for years, i ran investigative committees. i kept a picture of joe mccarthy hanging on the wall so that i would know what it was i did n want to look like, to do or to be. i believe that this committee going into these matters wisely, carefully and well can achieve a fine result of alerting the nation to the real concern. i would beg you, mr. chairman, and the members of the committee to do what i know you are fully intent upon doing and that is to see to it that as we go into these matters, we do not blot the good name or the loyalty or raise questions about the decency of arabs or muslims or

other americans enmasse. there will be plenty of rascals we can point out and say these are real dangers to the nation we love and serve. i want to tell you how much i appreciate your courtesy permitting me to be here this morning. i know that you will see to it, mr. chairman, and the members of e committee that we address the problems that we confront in terms of our national security in a fair, decent, thoughtful and honorable fashion. i am prepared to leave then this high responsibility to you. with the assurances of my good wishes and support. again, the hope that people will understand that the purposes of this hearing should be to find where there is wrongdoing, danger and risk to our country, while at the same time not raising threats about the

loyalty or the patriotism of important branches of our society who are as loyal, decent and good, thoughtful and honorable americans as are all of us here present in this room. i thank you for your courtesy to me, mr. chairman. >> thank you, chairman dingell. i still haven't acclimated myself to seeing you on the other side of the microphone through the many years when you were sitting in the chairman's chair. thank you for your testimony this morning. >> we've been friends a long time, thank you. >> thank you, chairman. next witness is congressman ellison from minnesota. he and i have divergent views on this issue but we try to intain the cordial relationship, and when congressman ellison spoke to in mid december about the possibility of being in the hearing i welcomed hisequest and i am pleased to have him here today to explain and discuss his vsion and his analysis of the crisis confronting us today. with that, i recognize the gentleman from minnesota, mr.

ellison. >> thank you, chairman king, for allowing me to testify today. though the chairman and i sometimes do disagree, including on the aspects of this hearing, i appreciate his willgness to engage in this dialogue. let me also thank the ranking member thompson. it's a challenge to protect both security and liberty but congressman thompson seems to strike the right balance. i'd like to introduce talot hamdani with us today. she is the brave mother of a first responder who died trying to rescue fellow americans on 9/11. i would like to make three points today, mr. chairman. first, violent extremism is a serious concern to all americans and is the legitimate business of this committee. second, this committee's

approach to this particular subject, i believe, is contrary to the best of american values and threatens our security or could potentially. finally, we need increased understanding and engagement with the muslim community in order to keep americasafe. let me elaborate on my first point. understanding the roots of domestic terrorism is the legitimate business of the house homeland security committee. i share the chairman's concern about violent extremism. i voted for the violent radilization and home grown terrorism prevention act of 2007 authored by representative jane harmon. this bill was a common-sense approach to studying violent extremism in the united states. ter gathering more feedback from the community, i expect to introduce asimilar bill in the future. i recently made a presentation sponsored by the center for american progress called strengthening american security,

identifying, preventing and responding to domestic terrorism. my presentation there addressed causes of violent extremism and solutions for prevention and intervention. the safety of our families and communities is at stake in our discussion today. we should apply the utmost professionalism to this issue which leads me to my second point. we need to conduct a thorough fair analysis and to do no harm. the approach of today's hearing, i fear, does not meet these standards. today's hearing is entitled, "the extent of radicalization of the american muslim community and that community's response." it's true that specific individuals, including some who are muslims are violent extremists. however, these are individuals not entire communities. individuals like anwa, fizal and nil who do not represent the

muslim community. when y assign their violent actions to the entire community, you assign collective blame to a whole group. this is the very heart of stereotyping and scapegoating. this is the heart of my testimony today. asibing ev acts of a few individuals to an entire community is wrong. it is ineffective and it risks making our country less safe. solutions to the scourge of domestic terrorism often emerge from individuals from within the muslim community, a point i address later in my testimony. demanding a community response as t title of the hearing suggests, a search that the entire community bears responsibility for the violent acts of individuals, targeting of the muslim american community for the actions of a view is unjust. actually, all of us, all communities are responsle for combatting violent xtremism, singling out one community,

focusses our analysis in the wrong direction. throughout human history, individuals from all communities and faiths have used religion and political ideology to justify violence. let's just think about the kkk. america's oldest terrorist organization. the oklahoma city bombing, the shooting at the holocaust museum by james von brn. did congress focus on the ethnic group of these acts of public violence as public policy? no. stoking fears of an entire group for a political agenda is not new in american history. during world war ii, the united ates government interned the japanese americans. during john f. kennedy's campaign his opponents portrayed a dire future for america with a catholic president. we view these events of our past as a breach of our treasured american valued. let's talk about facts rather

than stereotypes. in fact, the muslim american communit reject violent ideology. a report released last year states, "given the low rate of would-be violent extremists, about 100 amongst the 3 million american muslims suggests the american muslim population remains hostile to jihadist ideology and its exotations to violence." at a press conference yesterday, eric holder said, "the muslim community has contributed significantly to the resoluon of many things that have resolved over the last or the course of the last 12 to 18 months, ti have been received, information shared, has been critical to our effort to disrupt plots that otherwise might have occurred." muslim american community across the country actively works with law enforcement officials from dialogues with attorney general eric holder to community

meetings with local police in minneapolis, recently tips from muslim american community fall to plots including the times square bomber and virginia five. law enforcement officials depend on those relationships. information provided by muslim americans has helped to foil seven domestic terror plots and 40% of all plots since 9/11. a 2011 study from duke university triangle center on terrorism reiterated that 40% of theomestic terror plots that have been prevented with the aid of muslim american community. this cooperation with law enforcement is rooted in relationships and trust. relationships we should nurture. a witness at today's hearing, los angeles county sheriff lee bacca testified before the house homeland security subcommittee last year. he said to effectively detec and manage extremists, police

need to have trust and the understanding of the muslim communities who live within and outside the unit states simply police need public participation. as leaders, we need to be rigorous about our analysis of violent extremism. our responsibility includes doing no harm. i am concerned that the focus of today's hearing may increase suspicion of the muslim american community, ultimately making us all a little less safe. we have seen the consequences of anti-muslim sentiment from backlash against park 51 muslim community center to the hostilities against the islamic center in tennessee to a threatened koran burning in gainesville, florida, zoning boards and communities in illinois are denying permits to build mosques. at the height of the park 51 controversy, a man asked a cabbie whether he was a muslim. when the cabbie said "peace be unto you," the individual stabbed him. dennis mcdonough recently spoke

at the adams center and the all-dulles american muslim so side he noted al qaeda coerced recruiting argument is that the west is at war with islam, a chief goal of our national security policy is to undermine this argument. this requires active engagement with muslim community at home and throughout the world, as president obama said in his cairo speech, "islam is not part of the problem in combatting violent extremism. it is an important part of prom poeting peace." this brings me to my last point and i will try to hurry, mr. chairman, because i see the time. the best defense against extreme ideologies is social inclusion. ralph bolter, head of the minneapolis fbi illustrates my point. he led a large-scale probe into counterterrorism involving local somali americans heading overseas to fight with terrorist organizations. he is now coming to d.c. to

become the agency's deputy assistant director in charge of counterterrorism. bolter's strategy, to find extremism, the agency needs to establish sincere relationships within the community. "we had to be able to show people they could trust me, trust us," bolter said of the local community. fbi agent bolter, "showed a side to t fbi that people don't see," said minneapolis police chief tim dolan. they needed a little more to make their case and it paid off because of the connections he made. people came forward. he becamsb that they were willing to go to." unfortunately, i fear that this hearing may undermine our efforts in thisdirection. recently on a news program, it was stated, "how about the number of young somali men who went to somalia and imam and

leaders in the muslim community who refused to cooperate? they denied for a long time they even left." this sweeping statement regarding the community i represent is inaccurate. unfortunately, why weren't law enforcements from minneapolis invited to testify before this committee about the effective counterterrorism work going on in minneapolis today? invite and would welcome such an invitation. in january, the department of homeland security of the civil rights and civil liberties convened a youth summit with somali american youth and law enforcement agencies in minneapolis. the event attracted over 100 people including u.s. attorney, three somali american police officers, myself, several law enforcement security agencies. the meeting provided an opportunity for somali youth groups to learn more about the various roles and responsibilities of the u.s. department of homeland security and to discuss community issues

and concerns with government representatives. the meeting participants discussed way which youths can improve ways of communications. muslim americans have been part of the american scene since the nation founding. cedar rapids, iowa, is home to one of the oldest mosques in america. the muslim community is like the rest of us. muslims serve our nations as doors, lawyers, teachers, business owners, cab drivers and even members of the congress. muslim americans live in every community in america and they are our neighbors, in short, they are us. every american including muslim americans suffered on 9/11. 29 muslim died at the world trade center. three died in hijacked airplanes united flight 175 and american flight 11. muslims stood with the rest of the america united in grief and in our resolve to protect america. along with americans of all faiths, muslim americans rushed into save and rescue victims of al qaeda's terrorism.

let me close with a true story, but remember it's only one of american stories that could be told. muhammed hamdani was a 23-year-old paramedic, a new york city police cadet and muslim american. he was one of those brave first responders who tragically lost his life in 9/11 terrorist attacks almost a decade ago. as "the new york times" eulogized, he wanted to be seen as an all-ameran kid. he wore number 79 on the high school football team in bayside queens where he lived. he was called salbi his friends. he became a research assistant at the rockefeller university and drove an ambulance part time. one christmas he sang handel's messiah in queens. he saw all of the star war movies. it's well known that his new

honda read with the young jedi license plates. you bravely sacrifed his life to try to help others on 9/11. after the tragedy, some people tried to smear his character. solely because of his islamic faith. someeople spread false rumors and speculated that he was in league with the attackers because he was a muslim. but it was only when his remains were identify ied that these li were exposed. muhammedhamdani was a young american whoave his life for other americans. his life should not be identified as just a member of an ethic group or just a member of a religion, but as an american who gave everything for his fellow americans. i yield back.

>> i thank the gentleman for his testimony. >> mr. chairman? >> gentle lady from texas. >> being moved by the statement of mr. ellison, i am wondering whether or not you would waive the rules of this committee to allow all members to have opening statements? >> i will not. >> i ink, mr. chairman, i would like to finish my inquiry. i think because of the severity of this issue and the passion that is being expressed and the concern for demonizing of one group, that members need to be on the record to be able to express their view, their opposition or their support for the format and the structure of this hearing. >> reclaiming my time. the regular rules of the procedure will be followed. i recognize the gentleman from virginia. >> i object, mr. chairman.

>> i recognize the gentleman from virginia mr. wolf. mr. wolf served long in the congress. he has swn particular interest in this iss and his district had severe cases of radicalization. i recognize mr. wolf. >> mr. chairman, thank you for the opportunity to testify. i commend your leadership in holding these hearings and i will revise and summarize. i've been following radical islamic terrorism for nearly three decades. in 1998, i authored legislation creating the national commission on terrorism and highlighted the threat from osama bin laden in my introductory remarks. i was chairman of t house appropriations and subcommittee that funds the fbi on september 11, 2001, and worked closely with director muller from 2002 to 2006 to transform its missions to deal with terrorist threats. i am, again, chairman of that subcommittee and have receid regular briefings on terrorism and visited the counterterrorism center often in northern

virginia. the new and growing threat posed by domestic radicalization. according to the congressional research service, there have been 43 home grown jihadists terrorist plots and attacks since 9/11, including 22 plus were attacked since may 2009. as u.s. government officials, law enforcement and community leaders seek to combat this emerging challenge, we must foster partnerships with peaceful andlaw-abiding americans of the muslim faith. mr. chairman, over the last three decades, i' seen first hand the violence in a repression against muslims in many countries and have spoken out in their defense in places such as sudan, chechnya, kosovo and china. in bosnia, what is one of the only members to visit a prison camp run by the serbs where i saw evidence of modern day ethnic cleansing and support of

lifting the arms embargo so the muslim population to defend themselves. i am mindful of the important role american muslims play today, they are teachers, doctors, policemen and soldiers. mothers, fathers and neighbors. they are patriotic americans. some have paid the ultimate price in service to the country. i'm reminded of a young pakistani american i had the privilege of meeting at walter reed hospital. he lost both legs in combat in iraq. he was a patriot who makes us proud and he was a muslim. my oversight of the justice department including civil rights and national security programs, i am mindful of the government's responsibility to safe guard the rights of all americans. there have been instances in our nation's history, especially when our country has been unde attack, for the civil liberties of certain groups of people have been violated because other people were afraid. this is inexcusable, but this is the exception and not the rule. yet, mr. chairman, we cannot

ignore the phenomenon that domestic radicalization. it is a national security challenge that must be confronted. according to a recent report by respected counterterrorism expert bruce hoffman and peter bergen called "assessing the terrorist threat," they said, "the american melting pot has not provided a fire wall against the radicalization and recruitment of american citizens and residents. thgh it has arguably lulled us into a sense of complacency that home grown terrorism couldn't happ in the united states." they went on to say by not taking more urgently and seriously the radicalization of recruitment that was actually occurring in the u.s., authorities failed to comprehend that this was not an isolated phenomenon. rather it indicated the possibility that even an embryonic terrorist radicalization recruitment infrastructure had been established in the u.s. homeland. consider the following individuals who have been

radicalized in my state of virginia or i would even say here in northern virginia. in october 2010, faruq aaek mad what ashburn, virginia, was arrested for allegedly plotting attacks on the metro system to find times to kill as many people as possible. july 2010, zachary chesser, graduate of oakland high school was arrested in new york en route to somalia. chesser pled guilty to charges provided material support to terrorist, communicating threats and slis tating crimes of violence and was sentenced to 30 years. november 2009, five american muslim teenagers from fairfax county were arrested in pakistan attempting to join militant islamist organizations. they've been sentenc to ten years in a pakistaprison. in november 2009, virginia native army major nadal hassan

killed 13 service mennd women in ft. hood, texas. hassan grew up in arlington, went to wakefield high school and later moved to roanoke. in 2004, abdul al moodie from falls church, virginia, was convicted on three charges of conspiring to senate the crown prince abdullah. in 2003, a northern virginia resident and the islamic saidia academy 1999 valedictorian was arrested in saudi arabia and convicted of conspiracy to commit terrorism including a plot to assassinate president bush. he was sentenced to life in pris yochblt one cannot overlook the prime role an american citizen played in northern virginia during his time preaching at a mosque in falls church, virginia.

this is particularly noteworthy begin his recruitment of the ft. hood shooter, the christmas day bomber and the times square bomber. some experts say the internet is the conduit to radical voices to corrupt minds while others say it is the important importation of radicalterrorism. others temperature to stifle debate and obstruct cooperation with law enforcement. in june 2009, i spoke on the house floor in great detail laying out my concern about care and discussing the holy land foundation case. the foundation and five of its former organizers were found guilty of illegally funneling more than $12 million to hamas. we know hamas is a terrorist organization on the terrorist

list by the eu, by the united states and wants to destroy israel. they designated a foreign terrorist organization and among the unindicted co-conspirators in the case was c.a.r.e. which is routinely and mistakenly elevated in the press as the voice of mainstream american muslims. they have been granted access to the highest levels of government at times. last week during a hearing before my subcommittee, attorney general eric holder recognized c.a.r.e.'s troubled history, he said, and fbi director has suspended all noninvestigative cooperation with c.a.r.e. my concern is not limited to its disturbing origins and connections to terrorist finances. i'm equally concerd about c.a.r.e.'s role attacking the reputation of any who dare to raise concerns about domestic radilization.

may 25, 2007, "wall street journal" op-ed, a former member of a terrost organization described terror as, "perhaps the most conspicuous organization to persistently accuse opponents of islamaphobia." in 2008, the editorial page editor of "the columbus dispatch" spoke on an accusation as a means of muzzling debate. they said, "for many years contrary has waged a campaign to intimidate and silence anyone who raises alarms about the danger of islamic extremism. the group acts properly when it hammers home the point that only a small number of muslims support religiously motivated violence." they went on the to say where it errs is labeling anyone who discusses islamic terrorism as a bigoand hate-monger and

islamaphobe. in many cases its national and state chapter leaders actively dissuade american muslims from cooperating with law enforcements. after many disappeared from the minneapolis area in 2009, c.a.r.e. attempted to drive a wedge between the muslim community and the fbi, which was eking to track down the missing men. according to official estimates, at least two dozen americans have moved to somalia in recent years to join the terrorist group al shebab. roughly ten americans that have gone there have been killed in fighting or acts of terrorism while connected. in 2011, c.a.r.e.'s california chapter displayed an old poster which stated, "build a wall of resistance, don't talk to the fbi." although c.a.r.e. removed the

poster once the mediaeported on it, iteflects a larger and troubling pattern. when the terrorism commission legislation was moving in 1998 and c.a.r.e.'s own word they asked muslims to contact leaders and urge them to eliminate the new legislation that would create a national commission on terrorism this was misguided and fortunately not successful. regrettably, the commission's recommendation sent to congress in june 2000 were generally ignored until 9/11, when 3,000 people were killed, including more than two dozen from my congressional district. let me be clear. c.a.r.e. is counterproductive and it is hurting the american muslim community. i raise the concerns because if we are to successfully counterradical terrorism, law enforcement will need the active engagement of the muslim communities.

i have a recommendation to address the challenge of domestic radicalization head-on. i commend the fbi and director muller and all the men of t february and men and women of the fbi and our services for the outstanding work they have done in inepting would-be terrorists before their attacks. despite

that they do not have the capacity to step back and strategically reevaluate the threat before us. i believe a team b would provide a tremendous service to making recommendations on how we can disrupt domestic radicalization. service in maki recommendations on how we can disrupt domestic radicalization. i was working closely with former congressman jane harmon on abipartisan proposal before she retired to leave to go to the woodrow wilson institute. for over a year, i repeatedly have written the administration you are urging them to implement this proposal. they have not. mr. chairman, i urge support of this gislation, and thank you

again for the opportunity to testify. i strongly believe your hearings will provide congress with a starting point for a new dialogue about fighting extremism and radicalization. we cannot afford to be silent. i'm reminded of the song by simon and garfunkel, "the boxer," that says man hears what he wants to hear, but disregards the rest. we cannot disregard the issue of radicalization in our country. your hearings can provide a productive forum for a much-needed dialogue about domestic radical zachlgts i want to thank you very much for your leadership.

let me again thank each of the four witnesses for being here today for giving us their valuable time, their input and their varying views, but all that is essential as we move forward. our first witness today, dr. zudi joster is founder of the american islamic forum for democracy. he founded aifd in the wake of the 9/11 attacks in the united states as an effort to provide an american muslim voice advocating for the preservation of the founding principles of the united states constitution. as a member of congress, i remember you when you were here. he is a respected physician and former lieutenant of the united states navy and worked in the attending physicians office here in the united states capitol. for better or worse, he kept us healthy. some of our constituents may not be too happy about that. you did a great job keeping us healthy. i appreciate you being here today. the gentleman is recognized.

doctor, if you put on the microphone there, please. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you, chairman king, ranking member thompson, distinguished members of the committee seeking mortestimony on way feel is the most important threat to american security in the 21st century. as chairman king said, i come to you as a devout muslim and somebody very concerned about our country. not only its polarization but its paralysis dealing with this problem. we form an organization to address this, but have not been able to move one step forward significantly because of that paralysis. one camp on the polarization refuses to believe any muslim could be radicalized, yet we've seen a significant increase in the number of radicalized muslims that may not be from within our communities that we know, but are muslims

nonetheless. on the other side of the polarity that are seek nothing solutions. the majority in the middle is moderate america looking for a solution. i think these hearings or an opportunity for muslims to address that solution. let me be clear and state up front that the u.s. has a significant problem with muslim radicalization. i'm muslim and i realize it's my problem and i need to fix it. that's what i'm trying to do. it's unfortunate that you have some of the best work on radicalization is being done by nonmuslims like nypd record on radicalization. most muslim groups condemn that report when we should have been doing that report. let me state clearly it is a problem that we can only solve. christians, jews, nonmuslims cannot solve muslim radicalization. yes, there may be other types of violent extremism, but that cannot be solved by nonmuslims. so we can close our eyes and

pretend it doesn't exist. we can call everybody a bigot or islamaphobe, but you're not going to solve the problem and the problem is increasing exponentially. i hope we can get behind this blind concept of violent extremism. radicalization is a continuum. cooperation is a continuum. i personally have never known a muslim that wouldn't report somebody about to blow something up or commit an act of violence, but that's a final step on a continuum of radicalization. i believe there are small elements, but significant elements of ideology within our community based on the lack of identification and separatism and disenfranchisement of certain muslims from this society that makes them not bond, not trust the government, makes them distrust the fbi and creates a culture of a lack of cooperation. that's what we need your help in solving.

america's current paradigm is failing. i'm a physician. i was trained as a physician to patients come in, they've got three or four symptoms, typically they have oning aboe diagnosis. when we look at the problem of radicalization, we have to realize that the panoplea of excuses will never run out. at the end of the day it's a moral corruption within a certain segment that is using our religion, hijacking it for a theopolitical movement that is not only domestic but is global. the reason i'm here today and taking the time away from my family and my work to do that, to be here with you, is because we are failing. we are not addressing this. we are so much soaking up the bandwidth of the discussion in this country on this with victimization that we are not addressing the core problem and root cause. yet these halls, this government

was based on discussing religious diversity. our founding fathers, our establishment clause was based on being able to have discussions that were functional on religion, yet once a movement, a threat hijacks religion, we seem to become completely dysfunctional and we get histrionics and can't talk about that. i want my children to have the gift i got from my parents that felt america, the first minute they stepped off the plane from the oppression of syria and they understood they could practice their beautiful faith of islam more freely here than anywhere else in the world. why? because this government is not under one faith. it's under god and it's based on liberty. these are the principles just as prime minister cameron said, we can't continue to play defense. we need a muscular liberalism. our tax money, our resources have been squandered.

we continue to play defense. until we have an ideological offense into the muslim communities domestically and globally to teach liberty, teach separation of mosque and state, you are not going to solve this problem. we are not going to solve it. i'm not saying you could solve theology. we need to build platforms you can advocate for universal human rights based in the equality of men and women, all faith before law. these are principles that certain pockets of islamic law, islamic legalisms within systems in this country and outside are advocating that are in contradiction with our government and society and end up radicalizing on a continuum, create a culture of lack of cooperation, and until you treat that diagnosis, what i call political islam, spiritual islam will continue to suffer. our faith community will suffer and this country's security will

continue to suffer. the current groups that have been speaking on our behalf have been failing. they may be well intended about civil rights, but they are apologetics, dismissals have been completely failing. if you look at nidal hassan, he didn't become radical overnight. if you look at his resume, it's frighteningly similar to mine, but yet something happened in him over years, over years. you can't just blame alaqi. before he came a radicalizer, he was giving sermons in mosques in denver, san diego and northern virginia. when you talk to certain leaders in the muslim community they say we don't know what happened. he became violent. that's not the way it works. it creeps up over time. there are enablers. the enabling that's been happening in some of our, not all, not even a majority, has been causing a progression of

this problem. >> if you could try to complete in 30 seconds? >> yes, sir. ultimately we need solutions. our organization created a muslim liberty project that looks at innoculating muslims. we have a retreat to begin that process. this is our homeland. we want to set this society to begin a counterjihad, and offense to counter the ideas i think is the best way to use our resources as a nation, and remember that the freedoms we have don't come with a cheap price and we need to give back. and that the solution ultimately to fear of muslims is for americans to see muslims leading the charge against radical islam. >> thank you, dr. jasser. our next witness is melvin

bledsoe, father of joaquin. >> thank you very much for allowing me to come here today and to tell the country what happened to my son. this hearing today is extremely important to begin the discussion about the issues of islamic radicalization in america. my sincere hope that this committee can somehow adjust the issue in a meaningful, productive way. i would like to express my deepest sympathy to the family of private william long and the wounded soldier. i would like to talk about the complicity in private long's murder. islamic radicals who program and

train made son carlos to kill. i want to tell american people and the world what happened to my son. we sent him off to college at tennessee state university of nashville, tennessee in the fall of 2003. our dream about his future ended up in a nightmare. carlos is my only son. he grew up in memphis, tennessee. we operated a touring company and he started helping out at the family business at age of 8. he loved to talk to the traveling public and had a lot of fun interacting with the customers. after graduating from high school, carlos wanted to get a degree in business. we thought perhaps he would come back to memphis to run the business and give my wife and i an early retirement. after the fall of 2005, his sophomore year in nashville, carlos came home that christmas for the holiday. we were sitting around the family room and carlos, his

sister monica, her husband and i were have a normal conversation about life. at a certain point carlos and his brother-in-law got into a heated conversation about muslim religion. then and later we felt like carlos' personality change when we spoke about islam. we thought maybe he had some muslim friends and was offended by the comment. the next time carlos came home, we saw another side of him that we didn't see before. during the night he took off all the pictures from the walls of the bedroom where he slept. he even took off the picture of dr. martin luther king jr off the wall. we asked carlos, what is going on with you? he replied he is now a new convert to islam and everything he does from now on will be to honor allah. carlos was growing up with martin king's picture on the

wall, but now he is treating that picture as if dr. king was nobody to him. we asked carlos not to take the dr. king picture off the wall. he take it off the wall anyway. this became a big concern to us. we went to nashville to visit him more and learn more about who was he hanging around with and what was going on with carlos. carlos dropped out of school at the beginning of 2005 semester. he was working at a temporary job a job and got a doing. he turned the dog loose in the woods because he was told it was a dirty creature. i couldn't understand how he could do that because he grew up with dogs in the house since he was 5 years old. something and someone is getting into his head and changing his waif thinking. it had gotten to the point he had no interest in coming home even for the holidays.

all this was part of his brainwashing. changing his thinking a little bit at a time. he had a job in nashville with some muslims who tells him islamic law, his employer, had to let him pray certain times of day regardless of what was going on in his job. as a business owner i told carlos, it would be difficult for employers to do this for all his employees. at this time, at the next step on his progress of radicalization, carlos was convinced to change his name. he chose the name abdullah hakeem muhammed. at this point his culture was no longer important to him, only islamic culture. some muslim leader had taken advantage of my son. he's not the only one being taken advantage of. this is an ongoing thing in nashville and many other cities in america. in nashville carlos was captured by best described hunters.

he was manipulated and lied to. that's how he made his way to yemen. carlos was hoping to go there for a chance to cross over to saudi arabia and visit mecca. he was taught all the true muslim must do this one time in life. he was taught that he would get to walk on the grounds where prophet muhammed walked and able to travel the area. they had other plans for him. they set him up, told him he could teat english in a british school south of yemen. the school turned out to be a front for carlos and he ended up in a training camp run by terrorists. carlos joined with the yemeni extremists facilitated by their american counterpart in nashville. we have since discovered that former m.i. in nashville mosque wrote the recommendation letter for carlos needed for the schooling image. we discovered that school

function as an intake front for radicalization training for westerns for jihad. from what i understand, the fbi have been following carlos since and before he left nashville, continued to follow him after he came back from yemen. carlos was arrested in yemen overextending his visa in october 2008. he was interviewed by the fbi agent in nashville before the u.s. embassy was alerted about his arrest. the fbi was alarmed about what they learned from carlos. we wish they could have told us, his family, about what they learned. if we knew how serious the extremism had become, we could have put every effort to stop the tragedy in arkansas. my family cried out for help to bring my son back from the american government. we got in touch with the united states embassy, state department, we also asked for

help from our u.s. representative and the fbi special agent who had been tracking my son in nashville after our son was finally released and brought home to us. no one said anything to us about what might have happened in yemen or what they may have learned that so alarmed the fbi to interrogate carlos while he was in the custody of yemen political security organization. carlos experienced in yemen's political jail was the final stage of his radicalization. he was in there with true evil-doers. hardcore al qaeda members who convinced him to get revenge on america. something is wrong with muslim leaders in nashville. what happened to carlos at those mosques is enormous. i have other family members who are muslim. they are peaceful law-abiding people and are not radicalized. i also have several uncles and brothers in the military. our family fought in the united states every war since the civil

war. i have nephews who are currently in afghanistan fighting for the democracy and freedom for all americans. it seems to me that americans are sitting around doing nothing about extremists, radical extremists as carlos' story and other stories at these hearings aren't true. this is a big elephant in the room. our society continues not to see it. this political correctness, you can call it political fear. fear of stepping on special minority population toes even as a segment of that population wants to stamp out america and everything we stand for. i must say that we are losing american babies. our children are in danger. this country must stand up and do something about the problem. yes, my son you are hearing about today. tomorrow it could be your son, your daughter.

it might be an american, african-american child that they went after in nashville. tomorrow the victim might have blonde hair, blue eyes. one thing for sure, it would happen again. >> if you could just finish up in the next ten seconds, please. >> we must stop these extremist invaders from raping the minds of american citizens. carlos grew up as a happy-go-lucky kid with a big smile on his face. loved to crack a joke or two. everybody liked him. he loved to play team sports like basketball and football. he loves swimming and dancing, listening to music. today, we have two families that have been destroyed. this could have been prevented. i would like to see something change that no other family in this great country of ours has to go through what our family are facing today. god help us.

god help us. >> thank you, mr. bledsoe. our next witness ises director of somali education and its social advocacy center in minneapolis, minnesota, the uncle of borhan hassan. i ask you to limit your remarks to five minutes or so. >> thank you. >> first of all, i want to say thank you to chairman king and members of the committee for allowing me to speak on behalf of the muslim somali american community today. i also want to thank the somali american community for helping us, the families of the missing children or youth, to stand up against the radicalization of our youth. i want to tell you why i'm here today and how important it is for me.

i'm here because of my boren hassan. not only him but 20 and 40 others who are somali americans in the state of minnesota who have been brainwashed, radicalized by members of our community and back home into a berning burning in a civil war. i want to talk about my nephew. i love my sister, and her family was along about hundreds of thousands who fled from the civil war into the neighboring kenya where in the campus there was no order, but the rape, mass killing and disorder was the day. everybody begged and longed for the day that they should be helped by the international community. fortunately, my sister and her family, she was one of the luckiest ones that made it to the shores of the united states of america.

my nephew immediately adopted slang and become a student. he was loved by the community. his mom and i and everybody else, the best thing for us is to put him in sunday school and that was the mosque, the center. we invested in this center with all our money to make it bigger so it could help our youth and instead of being on the streets, to be influenced into bad behavior. we want our children to succeed. unfortunately on the night election -- historical night of 2004-2008, 2004, my sister kept calling the family and miss her son. we keep calling everybody. we finally end up with other families, we come to the end of that, our kids were lured back into somalia. we went to the mosque and the center and ask for answers. everybody promise that they will meet with us.

the other day we were waiting for the imam and the other leaders, all we did was saw up in the somali tv and see them, instead of helping us find our children, condemning us to being used to destroy our own mosque and religion. that was more hurtful than missing our children because now we have to deal with the bigger community, to destroy our faith and our community. that set the stage on for two years of struggle. and the bottom was the community. whoever wins the community, if they win the community, they are not missing children, but liars like me and my family and 20 other single moms who lost th r their -- after two years of demonstrations, educating,

fighting with basic and personal money and efforts of sleeping three hours a night, two and a half years, we won the heart and minds of the community. in the middle of the saga, though we never get help, we never got help from our leaders, from our organizations, through our big islamic organizations, but in the middle of our kinning, where the community started to sympathize with us, what happened to us, what happened to our engineers, doctors, lawyers, my nephew wanted to go to harvard, and become a lawyer or a doctor, just like you, but with all those things, then big organizations come to our community that we have never seen. care, such a beautiful name. islamic organizations is filled with mosques that mosques are organizations that will hurt us so more than our kids missing hurt, call us tools. the center we built, the people

we gave millions, our goal, our lives, our imams we trust. i want to warn you it is only one center out of 40 something centers and that's where all the kids are missing. all of them. this organization comes in, agrees with other leaders too that we are liars, we have a clan, tribal problems. i don't know where that came from. we have no clan, tribe or language problems. we are one community. we have been hurt by other muslims in our community. we have been denied to stand up. we had to do three demonstrations on the street in the rain, in the snow in minnesota. minnesota it is cold. islamic organization that is claiming in the house of congress they are so powerful that they are helping us, that we are tools to be used by republican, democrat, liberal,

by conservative, by nazis, by this. we have been muslims since muhammad. i want to tell you, my community is the most beautiful community in the world i've known. there are 99.9% good american citizens that workday and hard, day and night, 18 hours, 17 hours, seven days, to chase american dream. they don't have a voice. we have been kidnapped. so our children, we have been kidnapped by leadership that we have never seen. >> mr. bihi, if you can try to finish in 30, 40 seconds. >> i will finish that. i want to conclude for two and a half years they have not done anything else. the somali community wants to be heard and i thank you, mr. king, congressman king, and other members of the committee for getting me here, for panelists

like him, and like me. my community wants to be heard. i would ask you to look and open investigations as to what is happening in my community. we are isolated by islamic organizations and leaders who support them. talk to the common chain, muhammad industry of close to 100,000 members of my community. i want to tell you, 85% of our vulnerable youth do not have viable employment. they are not engaged in constructive programs. and if we stand and speak up for them, we are labeled and hurt instead of being supported. we need your support, we need a voice to speak up. we have been hurt and we are not going away. >> thank you. >> what i want to say last -- >> i ask the audience to refrain from any response, please. >> what i want to say last, it is important mission that the somali community -- al shabab is

killing thousands of people in the city of mogadishu and the world must understand it is not the government of somalia, this problem will continue. my last statement is, i never had this opportunity, the challenge is that the community is lacking strong, viable -- >> mr. bihi, your time expired. the next witness is sheriff baca. your team will not be limited. >> thank you, mr. chairman. sheriff lee baca is a former u.s. marine. he served in law enforcement. he served as a law enforcement officer for 46 years. he was elected as our los angeles county sheriff in 1998. sheriff lee baca commands the largest sheriff's department in the united states, leading over 18,000 budgeted, sworn and professional staff, law enforcement officers, and serves over 4 million people.

many of the cities, two of which happen to be in my district, compton and carson. his jurisdiction includes 40 cities, nine colleges, 58 superior courts, and a local jail system housing over 20,000 prisoners. sheriff baca is a respected witness. he has been to this committee testifying in both 2009 and 2010 and was invited here by our ranking member mr. thompson. please join me in welcoming sheriff lee baca. >> thank you very much. mr. chairman, thank you. i thank ranking member thompson and your committee for this hearing today. moreover, i would like to thank secretary janet napolitano and the department of homeland security for the support los angeles has received regarding combatting violent extremism. the los angeles county sheriff's department has long been a leader in the development of relationships with the various ethnic, cultural and religious communities that thrive in the

los angeles area. we have established strong bonds through continuing outreach and physical presence and important events to every community. therefore i would caution that to comment only on the extent of radicalization in the muslim american community may be viewed as singling out a particular section of our nation. this makes a false assumption that any group is prone to radicalization than others. according to information provided by the congressional research service, there have been 77 total terror plots by domestic non-muslim perpetrators since 9/11. in comparison, there have been 41 total plots by both domestic and international muslim perpetrators during the same period. reports indicate that muslim americans helped foil seven of the last ten plots, propagated by al qaeda, within the united states. evidence cheerily indicated a

general rise in extremism across ideologies, therefore we should look at as an issue that affects all groups regardless of religion. it is counterproductive to build trust when individuals or groups claim that islam supports terrorism. this plays directly into the terrorist propaganda that the west war on terror is actually a war against islam. it is critical to build muchally respectful relationships with muslim american communities and endeavor to work together to protect all americans. for example, new immigrants or citizen citizens -- excuse me, let me start this again. for example, as new immigrants or citizens, the vast majority of muslim committee members within my jurisdiction is fiercely proud of their american identity and display their patriotism on a daily basis. what i made critical outreach to the community after 9/11, i was

overwhelmed by the number of muslims who were ready and willing to connect with law enforcement. moreover, after the 2005 transit bombings in london, the muslim american homeland security congress was formed in los angeles county to engage muslim community members in our efforts to counter violent extremism. the homeland security congress is compromised of leaders from the religious, business, professional, and academic centers of the muslim american community. moreover, supports the efforts of our muslim community affairs unit, made up of arabic speaking muslim deputy sheriffs and i might add that the los angeles police department has the same effort going. the muslim american homeland security congress provides support to our homeland security efforts, not only in los angeles, but entire southern california. according to the institute for homeland security solutions report, building on clues, examining successes and failures

and detecting u.s. terrorist plots from 1999 to 2009, 40% of all extremist plots were thwarted as a result of tips from the public and informants. muslim american community leaders in los angeles have not hesitated to put themselves in potentially uncomfortable positions to interact with local law enforcement. in 2010, the muslim public affairs counsel enthusiastically responded to requests to speak at our annual radicalization and home grown violent extremism conference. speaking to 200 law enforcement personnel, salam and ardena subjected themselves to an intense period of questions and answers from the audience regarding islam radicalization and terrorism. due to their courage and willingness to answer any question presented, the evaluation of their performance was overwhelmingly positive.

outreach to the muslim community is also done by law enforcement outreach coordinators group which includes the los angeles police department, the city of los angeles, the california emergency management agency, the fbi, the united states attorney general's office, the transportation security administration, and our most supported federal partner, the department of homeland security. in america, we are obligated to protect all citizens in their respective religions and to effectively detect and find extremists. police leaders must have trust in and understanding of all communities. the muslim community is no less or no more important than others as no one can predict with complete accuracy who and what will pose the next threat against our nation. simply put, police need public participation and to accomplish that, strategies such as public trust policing need to be a priority in our nation.

simply our enemies cannot thrive or even survive when a majority of people share common goals and pledge to be an asset for each other in the fight to counter violent extremism. thank you for listening to my brief testimony on a subject that is vital to all americans. >> thank you, sheriff baca. thank you very much. the chair will recognize himself. dr. jasser, thank you for your testimony. you listened to the testimony of mr. bledsoe, mr. bihi. i would ask you, do you see these as isolated cases or how -- as a part -- or is it part of a systemic problem in the muslim american community and, and if it is, how would that be impacted as far as mosques, as far as care, as far as overseas funding? >> chairman king, i can't underscore how important this question is is that is this simply anecdotes like a crime problem or is there a systemic problem?

first thing we need to say is the vast majority of mosques are places that all of our families go worship, patriotic americans like every other cross section of america, and not only are they not a threat but would report anything they see. having said that, though, we have a problem internally. where is that? it is a minority, but there is an ideology that exists in some mosques, not all, not a majority, but some mosques and it is a significant number. what i'm talking about is not the violent part. we need to change that paradigm, talking about violence. it is about separatism, the idea that the islamic state takes precedence over american law. so if you look, for example, mosques that i've seen a sermon in phoenix where one of the largest mosques, they held up one of care's pictures and the picture said something, like, extremely insulting about american soldiers and what they're doing in iraq, and you can't tell me that that doesn't have an impact upon radicalizing muslims at that mosque.

now, is that free speech? absolutely. do their civil rights need to be protected? absolutely. but there should have been a huge protest from people in that mosque that what he did violated and offended us as americans. but there wasn't. there was silence. so i think it is time in this platform that we have here and on should be a platform to awaken the silent muslim majority that exists there, that loves this country to start to do some self-repair rather than turning a blind eye and pointing fingers to other faiths. funding is also an issue. there is a lot of consolidation of funding within mosques. one thing important for the committee to understand is that our population is extremely diverse. but yet in this country, the groups that seem to represent us are those that are mobilized based on being an islamic lobby, which is part of political islam. most of our families left that political islamic party mentality in the middle east and came here to be part of a political infrastructure that separates church and state. so to say that while how do we

engage those muslims, where are they, they're hard to get to because they don't want to be involved in islamic or muslim organizations because they separate mosque and state. so i think it is important that we make that distinction. now, looking at the islamists as a group, again, not all -- violence is a small part of their mentality. but yet as you look at the bigger part, they facilitate the concept that the islamic state supremist is better, islamic law should be part of government, all of this needs reform. some of the mosques get funding and have a common source of ownership called north american islamic trust, listed as an unindicted co-conspirator, they hold deed to some -- they quote 300 mosques on their website. some say up to 50 pr% of mosque. if you look at some of the teachings that the islamic society in north america and a few others endorse, they're associated and i put this in my testimony, some of their imams

are associated with the assembly of muslim jurists of america. with some of that funding that came originally from petro dollars in the '70s, comes, i think, an ideology that is pervasive with a fundamentalist islamic strain or islamism as an entity or political islam. very different from islam as a faith, i believe. we still have to go through that enlightenment process and reform, but you can't disconnect the funding. there have been committees in this house that studied that. the judiciary committee and the senate studied that in 2003. i think that is a whole other issue. i do think along with it comes apologetics, a lack of reform, and a sense of basically trying to eevangelize islam. >> mr. bledsoe, i was moved by your testimony in the leadup to the hearings. this hearing was attacked by

everybody from care to kim kardashian to the new york times as being such a dangerous moment we'll have here today. why did you come to testify? what do you hope your testimony will bring about? what is your opinion of this hearing? >> i think it is very necessary for this hearing to be -- i think that as you can see, a lot of people still are in denial that we even have a problem in america with radicalization. i came here to speak to the american people. i wanted to say something on the behalf of my son, and my grandson, which is 9 months old, open that he don't get caught up in that same trap, get captured by that same hunter that my son got caught up in. also, i wanted to say to the american people that i hope that my coming here today, that someone out there in the world,

in america, that can hear my story and learn something from the radicalization stages and the process of radicalization, that they can catch some of that, which i did not understand at the time my son was being processed and radicalized. hoping that some other child, some other parent can understand and save that child. if i can save one other child from going to what my family has gone through or the victim family went through, then i think my trip here to this committee was worthwhile. >> thank you, mr. bledsoe. i'm privileged to recognize the distinguished ranking member from mississippi, mr. thompson. mr. thompson. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. sheriff baca, as a professional law enforcement person, can you share what your training and

experience has taught you in working with different communities within los angeles county? >> yes. the concept of public trust, in my opinion, is the core message of my testimony, that policing requires extraordinary ability to interact with people, particularly in a diverse society where people, whether they're here for long periods of time or immigrants, generally have a mistrust of what we represent on the initial contact. in the building of relationships in our particular subject today is obviously the muslim community, we believe that what's important is that through relationship building, through programs such as our muslim outreach effort, and the idea that every individual could be a

victim of a crime, and when it comes to violent extremism or let's just say even violent gangs. the same approach that you use for a violent gang should be used for what we're now talking about in violent extremism concerning terrorism. once you do that, you have ceded the community into a place where if the informant cannot contact a cop directly, the informant knows someone who can. and so the idea that we must always, as a law enforcement strategy, be the first ones to know is highly unlikely. that is true of any crime or any gang, but it is also very fundamentally an important point to make when it comes to radicalization. obviously the witnesses here had some exposure before the actions were taken. and as a result, the question is how well can you listen.

what i didn't hear is when were the police notified or when were authorities notified? what i'm trying to do is close the gap. what i want to know, as soon as possible, is that when you're experiencing these unusual behaviors within mosques or within individuals within your family, the time to notify authorities is now. and i believe that's part of the reason why these hearings are very, very important. >> thank you very much. dr. jasser, one of the schools of thought among some of these members of the committee is that we ought to profile muslims in america. do you agree with that? >> i don't agree with blind profiling, that's unconstitutional. however, smart law enforcement that doesn't waste our resources on investigating people that would not have a high propensity

toward radicalization i think is smart also. >> no, no, no. the school of thought is that we ought to profile all muslims in america. >> you can't do that because -- >> that's fine. but that's the school of thought. mr. bihi, what's your position on that? >> oh, i -- >> microphone, please. >> 20,000 times against profiling not only muslimists, but any group. >> absolutely. one of the comments that those of us who had serious problems about hearings of this nature is that you run the risk of profiling law abiding citizens in this country, who just happen to be muslim. and i think what we have to do is take as sheriff baca said, those individuals who see illegal or other activities

taking place need to be taught to report it. one of the ways you do that is to engage the community, the law enforcement community as soon as possible. and i think from a professional law enforcement opinion standpoint, that's where we ought to be. last point, dr. jasser, another comment attributed to this committee school of thought is that there are too many mosques in america. do you agree with that? >> absolutely not. my family has built a number of mosques have been involved in that. i feel it is one of the reasons they came to this country is in order to exercise that freedom. >> thank you very much. >> can i add one thing, chairman? chairman king, may i add one thing? >> mr. chairman, regular order -- >> mr. thompson controls the time. >> the point is for my questioning standpoint, i think religious freedom has an

absolute place in america. no, no, you've said that there are not too many mosques in america, i'm saying i agree with you. >> as far as law enforcement is concerned -- >> i did not ask the law enforcement question. >> first question you did, sir. >> i did not ask it of you. >> may i say something about -- >> has the gentleman yielded back his time? >> yes. >> i recognize the gentleman from california, mr. lungren. >> i don't recognize those schools of thought. i want to we can sheriff baca here. he's an old friend. we worked in law enforcement together and we worked with your department in creating the community oriented policing and problem solving program that you've carried through of which i would say this is an extension. that is what you referred to here today. at the same time, i would say to

those who criticize us for a singular focus here that i have been on panels that have investigated the continuing presence of nazi war criminals in the united states, and whether or not we should continue to investigate and prosecute them. i have served on panels that dealt with the war time relocation of japanese americans and japanese nationals that was limited to that. i have been in hearings in which we have looked at the problem of youth gang violence and we didn't talk about nonyouth gang violence. i've been on the judiciary committee when we held hearings about the unsolved murders of african-americans in the south, four decades after that, and where we made sure that there was financing for the justice department to pursue those cases. and we didn't go beyond that. i've been there when we have

examined the ku klux klan, but we didn't go beyond that at that time. and when i was attorney general, we did investigate skinhead groups and militias. and we were not criticized or if we were, i didn't think it was reasonable criticism to say we didn't look at other gangs at that time. my point is that we are looking at a specific problem and we're trying to deal with it. and sheriff baca, you indicated you need to have cooperation of law enforcement. what would you say about a poster that tells people build up a wall, do not cooperate with the fbi? >> i wouldn't advise that to any group of american citizens or any group that is an organization that would like to help solve the problem. obviously we need the help. i think that people that don't trust law enforcement are in a position where they should learn how to trust law enforcement.

but the law enforcement community itself has to lead in that relationship. most people tend to step away from law enforcement. >> i appreciate that. but organizations that tell affirmatively say do not cooperate with law enforcement are not exactly helpful in us solving this problem, correct in. >> that's correct. >> mr. bihi, you mentioned that when you had this problem of looking for your nephew, along with the other 20 lost young people, you keep telling us that and that's a nice euphemism for the fact that you've found that they have been spirited away to a foreign country, and your nephew was killed when he was there, is that not correct? >> that's correct, sir. >> when you brought that to the attention of members of -- leaders of your mosque, did they encourage you to deal with law enforcement? >> no, as a matter of fact, they threatened me, intimidated me and not only me, the whole families. and there are three messages that they have put out, one message was very strong message

that if -- i'm talking about the families that has not reported their missing -- their children to the fbi or to the police. one -- first message -- >> mr. bihi, with the microphone closer please. >> yes, sir. thank you. the first message was to the parents that if you, as a single mother, with cultural language barri barrier, if you go to the fbi or to the police, they don't care about you because you are muslim, they will present you to guantanamo. very strong message. second message was you have more chances for your son to slip back into the country if you don't become big mouth like bihi or other families if you stay quiet. and some families succeeded. the third was moral and

religious. it was after life, if you do that, you'll be responsible for the eradication of all mosques and all islamic society in north america. and you will have eternal fire in hell. >> would you call that intimidation? >> that is the worst form of intimidation. >> you're a target of intimidation? >> what's that, sir? >> you were a target and your family were a target of intimidation to stop you from cooperating with law enforcement, correct? >> yes, intimidation in its biggest form. if you let me, i would like to say something about what our great sheriff said about community and fbi relations. we report the missing kids to the police within hours when we woke up. several police stations including the police officers at the minneapolis international

airport, next morning we set up an appointment and we met all the fbi. i believe our director was there too. i also want to mention another thing about hooking up with the fbi and the islamic community. if we let -- if we don't have organizations and imams and leader that create hurdles and blocks and threats and intimidations, we could have done by ourselves and we have done that. we in the somali community get the credit, our congressmen should give us the credit, should give me the credit for making all the efforts that director said about the somali community. and if you check the "usa today" about the report and the work we have done, it was our credit. >> mr. bihi, time has expired. gentle lady from california,

miss sanchez, is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i would like to ask unanimous consent to put forward 34 different letters for our body of work here from different organizations across the nation who have submitted for testimony. >> without objection, so ordered. >> thank you, gentlemen, for being before us and in particular welcome, sheriff baca. you've been before our committee several times. i have the privilege of representing orange county, california, as you know, probably the second or third largest islamic and/or arab population in the nation. so i'm well aware of the work you have done, not only up in l.a. county, but most people don't realize that in the time of a terrorist attack or a national emergency, we actually fold under your leadership in los angeles. so we have worked a lot together. it is a pleasure always to have you here with us.

today my question is to mr. jasser. in your testimony you say too many so-called muslim leadership groups in america, like care, or muslim advocates have specifically told muslims across the nation, for example, not to speak to the fbi or law enforcement unless they're accompanied by an attorney. now, the right to have an attorney present, when speaking to law enforcement, is a specific principle of american civil liberties. so as a minority, i would advocate to people, in particular minorities, that they should have their attorney present when being investigated, talk to, spoken to, addressed by the fbi. so by what legal principle do you assert that any minority in america should wave that american principle?

>> congresswoman sanchez, i don't disagree with you. i'm talking about this as a father. when i walked up to a police officer or the fbi, i teach my children that they're your friends, that you can talk to them. if they ask you things, they're not going to be attacking you. >> if they come to your home at night, like they do in my community, like some come to my community, and knock at 8:00 p.m. at night to ask questions, if it were you on the other side of the door, not knowing what questions they were going to ask, would you not say, can you come back tomorrow to my office of -- my office, my business office, would you not say let me call my attorney and i'll come meet you down at the fbi office? or would you say, sure, come on in, i'll answer any question. >> it depends on the circumstances. i don't disagree with you -- >> you don't understand the circumstances when somebody comes to your office late at night like that. you would assert the privilege of an attorney, would you not?

>> congresswoman, not all the time, no, i would not. i'm not constantly in fear from the government because i have nothing to hide. i'm not saying you don't have civil rights to protect, that is part of the discussion, but when that discussion that you just went through dominates the entire discourse about muslims in america, it creates a narrative that this government is against you and it creates a narrative that it is anti-islam and anti-muslim. we should have our civil rights protected. the rest of it should be about how much we love this government, how much we should join the military, how much we should -- >> we have those discussions. thank you, doctor. we have those discussions obviously in the minority community. i sit on the armed services committee also. and, you know, i think that's a -- one of the really rock bed ideas of the latino community, for example. but i still would suggest to anybody that if the fbi comes late at night knocking on your door, you tell them you would like to meet them at some other place at some other time with your attorney. sheriff baca, could you talk

about some of the initiatives in particular that you have implemented in your department to work better with the community and it is coming from this background, when we have problems, for example, when we ask people, did you do 586-g, to go after immigrants and, you know, knock on doors and look for undocumenteds or when we have these sort of situations where law enforcement comes, in a certain way it is intimidating. it is always -- it is intimid e intimidating for me when law enforcement stops me and i have to pull over. i'm driving a car and i see the flashing lights in the back, you know, my heart starts to beat. law enforcement is like that -- even for those of us that work with you. what would -- minority communities in particular, i think, have a very big sensitivity to law enforcement. what do you think it happens? what are the initiatives you try so that in fact minority communities and immigrant

communities are not afraid and actually move forward and come forward with information? don't you think when we intimidate them or point them out or profile them or have some of these comments come out like that, that it is dangerous to our ability to get communities to help us? >> the first thing i do is i train all deputies when they enter our academy and exit it to recite the core values of the sheriff's department by heart. this is the bedrock of the american institution, the bill of rights, civil rights and human rights. that is the core values are this, as a leader of los angeles county sheriff department i commit myself to only perform my duty, with respect for the dignity of all people, the integrity to do what is right and fight what is wrong, wisdom to apply common sense and fairness in all i do and encourage to stand against racism, sexism, anti-semitism, homophobia, and bigotry in all its forms. when you look at the history of bias in america, the reality is

that our founders created a brilliant document, the constitution, then the bill of rights, civil rights are real. but human rights are part of the element here when you have an international problem such as terrorism. so people need to clearly know from law enforcement agency where do you stand before you even talk to me? who are you and what do you represent? no police officer, no sheriff, no anybody with law enforcement authority will ever step outside of the american legal system in doing their job. we are the most regulated perhaps form of public service that anyone can imagine. so my first outreach to the community is to say, if you don't have an encounter with my depp sys that is within those core values, then i need to know about this. when you go a step further there is programs galore. i have advisory councils of all the faiths and this particular issues that are within faiths where people come to me because

they have concerns and fears. whether it is orthodox jews or muslims or whether it is pakistanis or south asians or whether it is middle easterners, the truth is is that america is becoming a society of the world. and because of that, we have to be sensitive, we have to know how to work with the various communities. i have over 116 languages spoken in los angeles. i have deputies of all these religions and all these ethnic groups, and we travel throughout the world, quite frankly, on this counterterrorism issue, of which was quite frankly a predictable issue after the gilmore report came out of congress. and yet los angeles had a terrorism early warning group before 9/11. so when you look at this from the standpoint of why even this hearing is so vital is because americans need to wake up and start learning more about all of the issues that affect their well-being and that police alone can't solve this problem, nor can congress, nor can the

administration, without cooperation locally, state wide, nationally, as well as internationally. and we have no national police in america. this is why i reach out to new york and check with them on their issues. i reach out to all the major cities as a member of the major city chiefs association. i reach out to my own community so there is no gap regarding resources. the real truth is that the american public must step up to the plate and do more. even if it is just educating yourself. now, on the issue of mosques, for example -- >> ten seconds. >> we can go into mosques in los angeles and we do that frequently. >> okay. time of the gentle lady is expired. the gentleman from alabama, mr. rogers, is recognized for five minutes. >> before i ask my questions, i want to point out i've been a member of this committee since it was established's standing

committee and even before that when it was a select committee. and at no point have i ever heard a member of this committee on either side of the aisle assert that we have too many mosques, too many muslims, or anything of the kind. so i don't know where the ranking member got that school of thought, but it didn't come from this chamber. sheriff baca, thank you for being here again. good to see you. i'm here -- >> if the gentleman would yield for one minute. i think what the ranking member was doing was -- i said at one time there are too many mosques that don't cooperate with law enforcement. i think the testimony today backed that up. not that that there are too many mosques in america. >> sheriff, a little earlier you heard the association that care warns people any need to have a lawyer before they talk to law enforcement. do you feel like that your jurisdictional residents whether they're muslim, jewish, christian, should have to have a lawyer before they talk to you or one of your sheriff deputies to inform you about something they see as being a potential problem? >> no, i don't personally

believe they should take that initial step. so to answer your question, no. >> do you believe your sheriff deputies, when out interacting in the communities and doing their community policing and talking with merchants and individuals should, before they talk to them, warn them they have the right to an attorney before they talk to the sheriff's deputy? yes or no? >> if we have a suspicion that they're about to commit a crime, then -- >> then yes? >> there is only so many questions you can have before you have to advise them of their constitutional right. that's one of the key fundamental points here. >> but what i'm talking about, just interacting with the community. not pursuing a crime, or a suspect. but, you know, a lot of information that your deputies get are from interacts with folks out on the beat. i want to make it sure -- make it known that i don't think they have to have an attorney to talk -- to talk with residents. when they're just finding out how things are going. and that was the assertion i see getting a little while ago from

the gentle lady from california's questions. we don't want our young people, our residents to feel like they have to be afraid of law enforcement in this country. if you're being investigated for a crime, it is different. but just to talk with law enforcement, i don't think an attorney is required, i don't think you would want to have that requirement to be able to do your job or your deputies do their job. i'm real interested, mr. jasser, dr. jasser, what do you specifically think that you should see done in an organized fashion that would help the muslim community begin to work to more self-police, the very small radical agents or elements of the community. because i agree, the overwhelming majority of muslims are law abiding, good americans and i don't want to paint them with a broad brush. but still, there is that small element in the community that is radicalizing. what would you like to see happening in an organized fashion to curb that? >> well, i can tell you that i

look upon this no different than we did the cold war. and that we need to start putting resources, we need to develop public private partnerships, we need to stop using the lowest hanging fruit that exists already as islamic groups in washington, not that they're all islamist, but many of them are. but the ones that are not typically are much less funded, much less endorsed or supported by media, government, et cetera. we need to start creating platforms like this for america to see we're a diverse population, that we're not all represented by the victim mongering groups and other groups that many of us take our responsibility as americans seriously. so we need to create a kitchen cabinet, if you will, of strategy, that homeland security is not just a crime problem, what is what you've been hearing, it is a crime problem and we need to work on the ground. that's important, but homeland security is much more than that. as prime minister cameron said, we not only have to get rid of the violence, but the pool in which the violent radical swim. and we need to drain that. that's going to need a generational posture that we

build institutions based on liberty, within the muslim community, so we can build forward platforms for forums for debates. we'll do the theological reform, you help us put resources doe midwest abica domestically into institutions. >> sheriff baca, you stated the hearing is worthwhile and you've been working on this for a long time even before 9/11, and you mentioned earlier you have an annual forum on the counterterrorism. what would you like to see happen from the organized standpoint that would better facilitate this flow of information from the muslim community about potential problems within that community? >> well, like my colleagues in the national sheriffs association and the major city chiefs association, which i'm a member of, and these are all the key elements of local law enforcement leadership, to have a little more concentration on coordinating our joint regional

intelligence centers. we are currently sharing some of the things that i've testified to and my deputies are going throughout the country on an individual basis. but if there was a way that we could develop best practices within the law enforcement community, and their federal government combined, on a continuum of training, we go to different places throughout the country to help each other. and i have to give high credit to the department of homeland security for what they're doing. but i would focus on continuing what we have already established. a lot of work has been done by this committee. we're not starting anew here. we're fine tuning as i see this. and listening to other ideas. but if you could look at a subcommittee, which i know you have, which would allow for my colleagues to come in, and talk in a prepared manner about these suggestions, i think you would have a better idea as to what local law enforcement needs. >> thank you very much. i yield. >> the time of the gentleman is expired. the gentle lady from texas is

recognized for five minutes. >> i thank the gentleman very much and i want to thank personally all of the witnesses that are here today. i respect the fact that you are here, sheriff baca, we have worked together, we have visited. i thank you you so very much for your presence here today. but i'm reminded of someone, proverb now quoted by sheila jackson lee, cleaning a dirty kitchen. you can't clean it with dirty water. there are no redeeming factual information that we will receive today that can add to the abhorrence that all of us have on terrorism in the united states of america. we don't disrespect the witnesses. at least i do not. but, you see, it already has been tainted, this hearing. there are no loud sounds of reasoning that are coming through this hearing. the reason is because it is

already been classified as an effort to demonize and to castigate a whole broad base of human beings. i cannot stand for that. and i brought with me thea livi document. the first amendment allows us the freedom of religion. the freedom of association, and expression. but i will tell you today that this breathing document is in pain. we could have had a hearing that spoke about any number of issues of terrorism. we might have gone back to the cold cases of the civil rights movement, acts of terror. we might have tried to understand whether the klansman still roam today and terrorize individuals in parts of this country. maybe we would have found out what those who are opposed to the jewish faith are doing to jewish communities and synagogues, no matter what their religion. maybe we would go and question

muslims who are hovering and scared because someone might suggest that they too are someone who is eager to do terrorist acts. we would be better off if we would have a hearing speaking about the importance of human intelligence, funding for the elements of the department of homeland security that can work on human resources to be able to hear from individuals who do want to engage and help this country promote its values. mr. jasser, may i just ask, are you a muslim? >> i'm a devout muslim who prays and fasts and tries to raise my kids to be conservative orthodox muslims, yes, ma'am. >> thank you. are there any other muslims on the witness table? and that is mr. bihi? >> the record will acknowledge mr. bihi is raising his hand. >> thank you very much. the reason i ask that question is because muslims are here cooperating. they are doing what this hearing has suggested that they do not do. it is an irony an outrage that we are wasting time when muslims

are sitting before us, a muslim is on this panel, a muslim has testified, and so i question where are the uncooperative muslims? let me quickly put in the record another aspect of mr. magdanoa's statement that our chairmans with so eager to quote and suggested he whisper to him to have this hearing. millions of americans find community, comfort and support in their faith that includes president obama, who is a christian. so today reminds us that being religious is never un-american. being religious is quintessentially american. god bless america. then i would simply suggest another comment here saying president obama recognized through our words and deeds we can either play into al qaeda narrative and messaging or we can challenge it and there by undermine it. we're determined to undermine it. this hearing today is playing

into al qaeda right now around the world. it is diminishing soldiers that are on the front line that are muslims. those who lost their lives. and it is going in the same route of an arizona and other states. sheriff baca, one quick question to you, please, can law enforcement find friends in diverse communitys? have you been able to solve problems by developing an understanding, an arab officer, hispanic officer, an african officer, an african-american officer, sir, or an anglo officer that happens to be from portugal or happens to have the ability to speak to someone from the balkans who is here in the united states? is that a positive form of law enforcement? >> yes, it is. and we have the ability to reach all minorities within the county of los angeles and sergeant michael dean, who is here, he can stand up, he's the sergeant -- he's a muslim, he's the sergeant of our muslim affairs outreach. >> thank you.

thank you very much. >> all members and guests will refrain from outbursts. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i am overwhelmed by this hearing and the lack of factual basis for it and i don't believe -- >> time of the gentle lady is expired. the gentleman from -- time of the gentle lady is expired. >> it is an outrage. as you already know, there are too many mosques in this country that is is absurd, it is outrageous. it is outrageous. >> the time of the gentle lady is expired. the gentleman from texas. >> i yield back. >> thank you, mr. chairman. as we're talking, it is quite an act to follow, let me say, as we talked about the constitution and the preamble, it talks about providing for a common defense, and that's what this committee, that's our primary mission, that's what this committee is all about. it is unfortunate in my view that some have attempted to mischaracterize this hearing as an attack on american muslims. let me be clear, it is not -- this committee that is doing

that, but al qaeda that is targeting and attacking our muslim youth. as evidenced by the testimony mr. bledsoe and mr. bihi. in the past two years there have been 27 terror plots and each of them involved extreme radicalization of the muslim faith. this is not to say that all muslims are a threat. to the contrary. the moderate muslim is our greatest ally in fighting rekrur recruitment of muslim youth. along with major hassan, the ft. hood shooter and many others show the threat to america lies within our own country. major hassan was promoted, repeatedly, in the name of political correctness. despite obvious signs of radicalization. these indications included conversations with the greatest threat to the united states today. and to ignore the threat of radical islamic extremism in the name of political correctness presents a serious threat to the

american people. both attorney general holder and secretary napolitano have testified that the number of jihadists websites present imminent danger to the united states. and having worked for the justice department prior to congress, i understand the importance to coordinate outreach between law enforcement and the muslim community. and i am very concerned there are organizations out there speaking for the muslim american community telling them not to coordinate with the fbi and law enforcement as evidented by the poster we saw by the council on american islamic relations. i hope we can begin the dialogue and ask the necessary questions. before i ask the questions of the witnesses, i want to -- i want to read from senator lieberman's letter to the -- to john brennan, the assistant to the president for homeland security. he said the failure to identify our enemy for what it is, violent islamic extremism, is offensive and contradicts thousands of years of accepted

military and intelligence doctrine to know your enemy. we have to know our enemy. and it is radical islam in my judgment. i would like to ask mr. bledsoe and mr. bihi, your children were kidnapped by these two mosques, held hostage, sent overseas to both yemen and to somalia, and their lives were destroyed. had these two mosques done anything to repair the relationship? have they ever told you they're sorry and have they ever told you that they will change their practices? >> i'll speak first. no, i have not heard from a mosque at all about whether or not they are sorry. i think that going back to the question, the lady from texas, we're not talking about all muslim. we're talking about islamic radicalization. and that i wanted to make clear

because that is a difference. i have muslim in my family, i mentioned earlier. i'm sitting in the middle between two. we're not talking about all muslim. we're talking about the ones who are hardened behind the moderate muslim. and they're the one who is a threat to america, a threat to our babies, a threat to the children, and they are in danger. >> do the mosques know that they're responsible for the radicalization of your son? >> sure, they know. but they're waiting around to do it again to someone else's child. that's why i'm here today hoping that american people, you're listening. i hope you hear me. i hope you learn something from that. i don't think that any other child or any other parent in america should have to go through what i'm facing today. >> and i agree with that. mr. bihi, has the mosque that radicalized your nephew ever apologized or taken

responsibility? >> sir, no, never had they apologized. they, as a matter of fact, attacked us and called us names and tools of infidels. and it seems that still nobody from the leadership or congress in the state of minnesota, the islamic organizations, none of them have ever admit 20 or more somali american families who were refugees get their kids from civil war lucky enough to raise their kids in a college level. those families were hurt. not congressmen, not care, not any other organization, not the mosque people, none of them ever visited them or even mentioned them. as a matter of fact, they call us liers. >> and ini have dellvi infidels. you appeared before -- >> the time of the gentleman

expired. >> i'll follow up with a written question. thank you. >> the gentle lady from california, miss richardson, is recognized for five minutes. >> i would like to ask unanimous consent that a copy of the following items would be submitted and submitted for the record. one would be a text of the attorney general's interview. the second would be a letter sent to you on march 9th of 2007 political insider article and a reference to a 2011 hearing in this committee. without objection? >> so ordered, without objection. >> thank you, sir. mr. chairman, a few members of this committee experienced events of 9/11 more traumatic than you have. and based upon those experiences and the inception of this house committee, chairman king and ranking member thompson, you've produced tangible results and because of that work i made every effort to serve on this committee. unfortunately today though as a member i vehemently oppose the narrow approach this committee has taken in this hearing. i was born in the 1960s.

and in my elementary history classes i saw shocking films of leaders in the 40s and the 50s disgracefully violating the principles of which this country was founded. the only difference history will say today is that those shows were in black and white and this one now is in color. discrimination, a definition is the treatment or the consideration of or a making a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing based upon a group, class or category to which that person or thing belongs, rather than on its individual merit. when elected officials or public servants are sworn in for duty including with the oath is an understanding not to abuse the power given. one definition of abuse of power is improper use of authority by someone who has that authority because he or she holds a public office. i believe the narrow scope of this hearing is dris krim that

torry and abuse of power. research by the congressional research center has spoken, we saw a chart that talked about muslim plots but it didn't talk about the 44 non-muslim plots which are more than double of what we have seen of other extremists. according to the institute of homeland security solutions al qaeda and the allied movements were responsible for 26.7 domestic terror attacks. while also white supremists accounted for 23.3%. thus restricting this hearing for the consideration of radicalization of american muslims and not equally of other groups is wrong. the house judiciary committee and house energy and commerce committee have not investigated other religious groups or their leaders for failing to cooperate with law enforcement that may have allegedly caused mental or physical harm to children, so clearly this committee is

setting a dangerous precedent in treating one religious group different than another. thereby calling into the question this committee's actions and whether those actions violate this country's laws and principles. mr. chairman i would like to reference for the record attorney general's actual interview and in the interview when mr. holder said that it's one of the things that keeps me up at night, holder said, you didn't worry about this even two years ago, about individuals, about americans. he never said muslim americans. also, we need to point out that in 2007, and i won't say people by name because i do respect my colleagues, it was said in reference in a political article, too many mosques are in this country, there are too many people sympathetic to radical islam. nothing reference to cooperation. in this committee hearing on february 9, 2011, it was said in this hearing we've got to focus

on those people who harm us. it's the islamic extremists. these are dangerous things. now, i also want to point out a reference that wasn't talked about in this hearing, i asked michael leader, the national counter terrorism center director, i asked him specifically, what percentage of the people being looked at by your agency for domestic terror threats were muslims? his answer for the record, it is absolutely tiny, a my minute percentage of muslim population that is looked at. finally mr. chairman, i would like to ask my sheriff for the record because the whole cause of this hearing was to say there was a lack of cooperation, sheriff baca, you talked about what you do. tell us what the muslim community does? do they fail to initiate and cooperate with you? >> it's a very, very good question to ask. i think what