campaign. later, the founder of the arab- american institute looks at the reaction in the arab-american community to the killing of also been laid in. "washington journal" is next. host: good morning. the headline in "the new york times" -- bin laden's secret life in a shrunken world. new insight into the life of osama bin laden over the last five years. also, the president is leaving for texas on tuesday to talk about immigration. the vice president is holding the second round of budget negotiations at the white house. in turkey, a u.n.-backed conference looking at ways to

promote the element of countries, in -- promote the development of countries, including problems in africa. we begin with phone calls. this cover story from the "national journal" caught our attention. "the war on terror is over." we want to get your reaction to this headline into the latest video released by the pentagon. democrats -- (202)737-0002. republicans -- (202)737-0001. independents -- (202)628-0205. let's begin with the new york daily news and the "new york post." they have photographs of bin laden at his compound. "dead man watching." "the osama tapes." we want to focus on the "national journal" this morning. the war and terror is over. let me read to you a portion of what is written in the "national

journal." that is our question on this sunday morning. is the war on terror over? that is what the "national journal" is saying. this is a photograph of bin laden, one of many released by the pentagon.

the peace in "the new york times" begins this way -- p andiece in "the new york times" begins this way. it goes on to say that he did not do household chores.

is the war and terror over? that is the question this morning. doug from boston, good morning. caller: good morning. i worked for many years in saudi arabia. there is something very wrong with the video of obama -- a bin laden. on his right hand, you can see their rank pity -- see a ring. perhaps you can ask james zogby about that discrepancy. host: good morning, bob. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i always thought that the hijackers on 9/11 were nothing more than a bunch of ragtag, internet-savvy bedouins who got

away with a terrible act. i do not think -- i think that we have been fighting the war on terror all wrong all these years. i do think that the way that the navy seals went in is exactly -- i have two more points to make quickly -- is exactly the way to fight these guys. these kinds of plant and a very specific attacks. the main point i would like to make before i hang up is that you cannot win the hearts and minds with battleships and tanks and nation-building. nation-building did not get us the results that we were looking for. the way of going in and trying to take occupied countries sets us back and create more terrorists.

thank you foresees ben. host: thank you for the call. you can join the conversation online at twitter.com/cspan. one frequent contributor responded to the "national journal" cover story as part of a series of opinions in "the washington post." it is the cover story explaining that the war is an organizing principle for american foreign policy. she is one of a number of people

waiting in -- weighing in this morning. what do you say? caller: happy mother's day to all the mothers out there. my mother passed away years ago. we saw it with ayman al- zawahiri. host: bob, republican line, trenton, new jersey. good morning. caller: the war on terror is not over, but it can be. it can be very quickly. it can be by the muslim community right now. they need to step up to the plate and announced that their religion was hijacked -- and announce that their religion was hijacked. they need to say this is not a life that we promote. it can be done. the new subcommittee -- the

muslim community needs to step up. host: good morning. caller: i want to look at a global war and terror as a concept. i do not think it is going to change -- blog global war on terror as a concept. i do not think it is going to change. u.s. foreign policy basically helps create the whole institution. i have not heard that discussed very much. the global war on terror is not going to end. double back and problems we have are based on american for -- the blow back and problems we have are based on american ports policy. -- american foreign policy. i think we will continue to have a number of osama bin laden's on a continual basis.

same person, different name. host: thank you for the call. this is from our twitter page. him "pacer."d that was his code name. the pentagon released some of the photographs, including bin laden, whose beard had been dyed. some of the stories indicated he was very concerned about his appearance and had to do multiple takes to release some of the video tapes or part of the material -- that were part of the material that was released by the pentagon. mark? caller: i think that the war on terror is over, but i also think we have gone about this the

wrong way. this is a police problem. he even colin powell said that when he was the secretary of .tate -- you are never going to eliminate terrorism. it is like racism. you cannot change people's hearts and minds. we need to attack this as a piece problem -- police problem. with fbi, law enforcement, interpol, scotland yard, things like that. i think it is over now that bin laden is dead, but i think it should have been approached as a police problem. host: you're looking at the silent video released by the pentagon yesterday. no sound. steve from shreveport, louisiana, a democrat. caller: thank you. i know my comment [unintelligible] ok.

i am a muslim. the war on terror is never over. i know some of muslims come to the country [unintelligible] the imams at the airport [unintelligible] these are the same people who destroyed the country. big push their opinions upon our people -- they pushed their opinions upon our people. these people are not true [unintelligible] the imam in new york knew what he was doing in regard to building the mosque. i am a muslim. host: thank you for your call. from the new york daily news, al

qaeda "going rogue" -- al qaeda going rogue is the story. there is a look at some of the people involved, including major netball hassan -- nadal hasan. he is one of several indicated. next, tim from michigan. good morning and welcome to the conversation. caller: did morning, peter -- or may i call you -- good morning, peter.

or may i call you steve? host: thank you. caller: as far as bin laden, like everybody else, i am glad he is gone. i just think it is kind of ironic -- i wonder how much it cost to actually get him out of there in pakistan and how much we lost in terms of lives and treasure in iraq and totally failed there. the thing that really kind of gets to me, as far as the so- called war on terror, if i am not mistaken, bin laden's mission was to destroy our way of life. i think that is our constitutional government and our economy. i was watching this thing on the

military channel. i just was flipping. there was a mission over japan. i forget which general it was. they said the primary mission was to destroy japan's manufacturing capacity and to demoralize its people. host: i saw that -- it was on yesterday. it might have been a rebroadcast. caller: what i am thinking is, that is a war. i think a bigger war on the country is the war on the middle-class -- the bigger war in the country is the war on the middle-class. we ought to start getting after these so-called "captains of industry," who are americans who are destroying our middle-class way of life. host: thank you for the call. this is from our twitter page.

some of the headlines from outside. "a peek inside bin laden's world -- isolation, vanity, power." jean from detroit, good morning. is the war on terror over? caller: no, i do not think so. i think that the war in iraq guarantees that -- the prior administration was warned that if we went into iraq -- this was by president mubarak of egypt, who has since gone -- said that it would create a thousand new bin laden's.

they said that he wanted to attack an oil-rich nation, which we did when we attacked iraq. people in france -- i remember when they have those fires -- had those fires. line about going to iraq to fight the americans. i think it is a long way from being over. host: these are also covers from last week. the viewer says -- howard is joining us from malibu, california. good morning. caller: thank you foresees an -- for c-span.

i believe that terror, just like communism, will eventually be defeated or taken out. killing osama bin laden basically took a number of critical years away from that your organization, but just like -- that terror organization, but just like communism, you will have levels of dictators who are going to ease the communism, dictatorship, it eased the terror. killing bin laden is an opening to the door to peace. host: thank you for your call. john from florida, good morning. what are your thoughts? paula dow mat it seems the way to peace would be for americans to stop -- caller: it seems the way to peace would be for americans to stop the

colonialist activities around the globe. war is terrorism. the war on terror will never end. america has plans to conquer, control, dominate the entire world, and always has had those plans. through the american military involvement and the killings of millions of civilians in nations across the globe, i do not think we can see an end to so-called "terrorism." thank you mary much. thank you very much. host: thank you.

his beard has gone white, snarled, surely infested with vermin. he is huddled, not in the robes of a conqueror, but a dirty blanket. i fear a tear coming on, she said sarcastically in "the new

york post." good morning, nelson. you are on the air. caller: i would go with -- i do not think it is over. there is so much going on here just because bin laden has been shot and killed, there are some the people who can take his place. there -- it only takes a handful of guys to recap on everybody -- wreak havoc on everybody. host: theresa, good morning. caller: i do not think the war on terror is over. the united states needs to take a second, third, and for members in charge out now -- take the second, third, and for membeurth

members in charge out now. thank you. host: ronald, cincinnati, ohio. what do you say? caller: democracy is capitalism. capitalism is controlling countries and making money. host: philip in los angeles. good morning. caller: joseph campbell says the tallest building in any civilization represents the values of the civilization. the road trade center represented money. satan, according to people in the middle east, is defined as a tempter. we tempt them with advertising and technology. some of them do not want change. they are afraid that their civilization is changing. this was a reaction to that. this was a man who was very rich. he was sending us a message in a

bottle. stop it. host: thank you for your call. speaking of bricks and buildings, in "the new york times," "the recovery -- the brick and mortar version." you can see the diagram of what the new site will look like. mayor michael blumberg was on hand last week. president obama also paid a visit to lower manhattan on thursday. he met with navy seals on friday. next is luis from memphis. good morning. -- louise from memphis. good morning. caller: he was not infallible.

we should realize he was just a man. the terrorism that he bestowed upon the world came to an abrupt end, just like everything else. when we put our faith in a person, thinking they can conquer the world, that is when we make our biggest mistake. host: thank you for the call. after from gross. michigan. -- patrick from michigan. is the war on terror over? caller: i hope so. we are an empire. it is a benevolent empire. given the seamless transition from the british empire, we are -- we spread our peace and law.

the world benefits. host: thanks for the call. robert on twitter has this to say. next is mark from orange county, california. good morning. caller: good morning. i have studied very carefully on cnn the photos -- the fake photos that they chowes -- showed of his death that were on the internet. then i looked at the pictures you showed of bin laden. i have to be honest.

i see a very strong resemblance between those supposedly fake photos and those that you just showed. host: what is your conclusion? caller: my conclusion is that i think there is something fishy. it started from john f. kennedy, martin luther king. that is just america's way. host: jack joining us from houston. is the war on terror over? caller: no. i do not believe so. we may have taken a good step, but i do not believe it was handled well. the information on those this is -- those disks is very valuable. we do not want to let it adversary know that there code -- their code is breached.

we should have gone in in error -- arab garb. we have not made good use of our assets. we should have tried harder to split the factions. we should have done it earlier. host: thank you for the call. we will come back to this issue in a moment. we will switch to presidential politics. this speech that we covered yesterday of the former china -- former ambassador to china. jon huntsman, the former ambassador to china and former governor of utah, will be speaking in new hampshire. the peace -- piece says -- is more with jon huntsman

yesterday at the university of south -- here is more with jon huntsman yesterday at the university of south carolina. >> anticipation, not anxiety. the prospect for breakthroughs and conquering human disease, lifting the poor from desperation, and bring about greater world peace -- those are challenges worth your efforts. our system needs new thinking. we need a fresh generation of innovators, leaders, risk- takers, entrepreneurs, as, and activists -- , scientists, and activists. host: jon huntsman at the university of south carolina. the entire speech will be available today at c-span.org and weill re- -- and will re-air

on c-span tonight. back to our question -- "is the war on terror over?" here is what we post the just after the president's remarks. next is a joyce -- is joyce. good morning. caller: good morning. i agree with the people who said there is something fishy. i do not like the bravado. that attitude comes from the

same kind of people who used to stand around and watch black people hang from trees and tell their children to look, and laughed. what about the palestinians? nobody cries when one of them is killed or when one of them does not come home, but when one of ours does not come home, we act like it is the end of the wor ld. we need to have more sensitivity for the people of the world, not just ourselves. thank you. host: thank you. jessica stern writing --

steve from reseda, california. good morning. caller: i do not think the war on terror is over. i think we and the killing of bin laden in the wrong way. -- we handled the killing of bin laden in the wrong way. when we came there, the seals had a mission to kill everybody. they killed his teenaged son coming down the stairs, unarmed. they killed an unarmed wife. they killed his young wife who tried to close the door. dozens of seals could have tackled an unarmed, old man who was a sick person, and

killed him. when manson was being tried, nixon visited los angeles. emit a comment that m-- he made a comment that manson was guilty. there was an uproar that he had been prejudged. what if canadians want to apprehend someone in america? without telling us, they have a helicopter raid, kill a family, take the body. we would not put up with that. we're treating pakistan likely -- like we own it. host: thank you for your call.

this is from the "national journal." they are calling this "vt day?" lee from pennsylvania, good morning. caller: there are wars that we should have never been in. second of all, we all wanted osama bin laden killed, but it was who did it? since president obama did it, you have people complaining. if you watch every video that they showed of osama bin laden, he always carried a rifle. everyone could have been moving to protect him. we do not know. they are getting on president

obama for doing the job that bush did not do. we always have to clean somebody else's backyard. we need to take care of stuff over here. you have people who are guilty for killing five-year-old kids, and we are paying taxes for them to be in jail. if we're going after bin laden, we might as well get these people who are killing kids. we need to bring some of those laws that they have over there here. i guarantee the united states would not be in the mass that we're in -- mess that we're in now. host: thank you for the call. jonathan alter has a new peace -- piece in "vanity fair" on hillary clinton. there are photographs of the national security team watching the events unfold.

this is from our twitter page. we're back to "the new york times." more scenes from the compound outside of abbottabad. there were nine children in the household. it is not clear how many belonged to bin laden and his son, or how many to the career and his brother. the career and his brother had seven young children between them -- courier and his brother had seven young children between them. the pakistanis found an extract of wild oats and that can be taken for upset stomach, but is also marked as an aphrodisiac. contrary to widely held beliefs that bin laden was on dialysis --

george, anaheim, california -- the war on terror. is it over? caller: good morning. i served in the early 1980's during the beirut crisis. host: go ahead. caller: if you are comparing wwii, it is like shooting down yamamoto's airplane. ayman al zawahiri -- there could be a gunslinger effect. someone could pop up and try to pull something. terror is indigenous to any organization or group that does not feel it has a voice or is being neglected politically.

terrorism will not end in our history as long as mankind is on earth. the political resolve to deal with it is the best we can do for our history, our future, and for the next generation. host: thank you for the call and for your service. pakistani recently -- this is from our twitter page. we're asking you about the "national journal" story -- is the war on terror over? caller: good morning. the war on terror will never be over. to comment on the sidle little

bit, it is big business. our country isn't a big business, banking, health care -- to comment on the side all little bit, it is big business. there is too much money to let it end. while obama is one of the most brilliant people in the world, the only thing he can get done is military. he is getting a little headstrong with the military and the drones. i see this never-ending. it is not going to end. that is just my opinion. it is great that we got the old guy in his rundown house. host: thank you for the call. this is a cover story on the raid that took place almost a week ago, "then came 'ge

ronimo.'" happy mother's day. is the war on terror over? p.j. from new jersey, good morning. caller: good morning. before answering the question, the report of the death of osama bin laden by the navy seal team is completely false. i have a couple of points to back that up. there were no casualties on the navy seals who did this operation. in a place where they are saying bin laden was hiding out and no one took any returned fire casualties? the second point is, the body was buried at sea. this would be like if our troops captured adolf hitler and then got rid of the body.

a kindergartner can see this is wrong. this is a setup for an attack on americans by criminal elements within our own government. host: we have a lot of people who have expressed this point of view over the last several days. even al qaeda confirmed that bin laden is dead. you do not believe that? caller: as many others do, i believe that bin laden died in 2002. he was a very sick man in ill health. the war on terror -- what we're dealing with is unconventional warfare. our adversaries are indeed in unconventional warfare. the powers that be collet "error" to create -- call it "terror" to create a boogeyman. host: thank you for your call.

caller: i do not think terrorism will be over for a long time, as long as people can start conflict and make money off of it. they will keep stirring up different complex here and there -- conflicts here and there. i want to see bin laden's head on a stick at the hole where the trade center was. i want to see him desecrated. another part of me says, have to deal with these people after this. host: thank you. from another one of our twitter follow worse -- followers -- coming up on "newsmakers," our guest is jack gerard, the

president and ceo of the american petroleum institute. the associated press is reporting that, by this summer, gas prices could drop as much as 50 cents per gallon. we will talk to him about gas prices and oil production. here's an excerpt. >> the message that congress needs to send to the marketplace is that help is on the way. these decisions should have been made two years ago. the administration has done almost everything to delay and discourage the development of american oil and natural gas. the signals are taken into account in the marketplace. the long-term costs of energy -- it looks like policy is to not produce our own energy. that is factoring into the price. one of the great things we can do is to send a signal to the marketplace that we are serious about producing american energy, by americans and for americans.

host: jack gerard, our guest on c-span's "newsmakers." jonathan alter, a columnist for bloomberg and the author of "the promise," joining us live on the phone. you have been falling hillary clinton since she was the first lady of arkansas. -- the following hillary clinton since she was the first lady of arkansas. caller: she has a good but not -- guest: she has a good, but not great relationship with president obama. they attacked each other fiercely during the 2008 campaign. she described him as "twisting her arms or legs," late 2008, to

convince her to be secretary of state, but it was a very smart move by barack obama. by all accounts, she has succeeded in the job. she has a good relationship with the white house. she has never quite connected with the president on a personal level, but there are not a lot of people who feel that they are close to him. that is to be expected. they have a working relationship that is productive for the united states. he is very happy with the appointments that he made. she is generally in her element, although fatigued. she is beautiful, -- she is a dutiful, responsible, smart, and effective secretary of state.

we do not know yet if she is going to be a great secretary of state. part of that will depend on whether she can help to turn the ripples that are emerging from the middle east and its arab spring into a stronger tide of renewal and reform. host: the pieces called -- piece is called "woman of the world." you point out that she is terrific off the record. guest: if she says the wrong thing, it could create an international incident. she has learned, through long experience, to be wary of the press, sometimes even defensive. more of the real hillary comes out when she is off of the record. you can see why friends consider

her to be such good company. she has a nice, ironic sense of humor and is fun to talk to. i tried to get as much of the real hillary in to this piece as i could. i tried to do what i tried to do in the open " the promised," where i wanted to go behind closed -- to do in "the promise," where i wanted to go behind closed doors and tell people what barack obama is really like. host: this is the june edition of "vanity fair." we are talking to general -- jonathan alter. you say she is not as calculating as her public image. guest: she is a planner, a

disciplined thinker, in some contrast with her husband. in terms of the way her mind works, she has more in common with the president than the former president. every body assumed that she was always plotting to go to the senate. she was not. that came up fairly late in the clinton presidency, not long before the 2000 election. she is not as politically calculating as an upper critics have said -- as some of her critics have said. has said she will retire from public life in 2013 -- she has said she will retire from public life in 2013, at the end of this

term. i don't necessarily think that is true. i think there is a decent chance the democrats will turn to her in 2016. she will be a young 68, if her health continues to be strong. i do not think she is plotting for that. and she assumes that she will not run. do not see the democrats coming up with another candidate 0-- i do not see the democrats coming up with another candidate who would be as formidable. a lot of democrats were not interested in selling anything critical -- saying anything critical. she is taking the job seriously.

it is a hard job. it is much harder than running for president in 2008, as taxing sas th -- taxing as that was. although she has not articulated an overarching doctrine for the united states, i am not sure that is a shortcoming. both the president and the secretary of state to think that to the doctrine is more for the -- state think that the doctrine is more for the "doctrine- aire." host: as you look at this, hillary clinton commented that she might have been trying to stifle a sneeze. what are your thoughts?

guest: i think it is a wonderful, iconic photograph. i am always wary of reading too much into it one particular photograph. in this particular case, when they are getting information from the cia, from cia director leon panetta about what is going on in abbottabad, pakistan, there were moments, two in particular -- one when the helicopter went down. that brought back two terribly disturbing historical memories. one from 1980, when a helicopter crashed durin gthe iran hot -- during the iran hostage rescue mission. it destroyed jimmy carter's

presidency. the other was during the clinton administration, the famous black hawk down situation. at the time that chopper went down, i do not think anybody in this situation room knew what to expect. it not clear that this picture was taken at that moment. when they were trying to clear pakistani airspace when the mission was over and the military had scrambled jet -- they were not sure whether the jets would try to intercept the u.s. helicopters. it is easy, after the fact, to go, oh, well, what did those guys have to do? house. was it for them compared to the navy seals -- how scary was it for them compared to the navy seals? if you are the policy-makers in charge of signing off on this

kind of decision, and you are watching in real time, hearing reports in real time of what is going on -- it is quite different than it was in 1980, for instance, with the iranian situation. this is a real nail biter. i think he did -- think you can see a real sense of worry about how this was going to turn out. host: but the conclude with secretary of state hillary clinton's -- lets conclude with secretary of state hillary clinton's relationship with the president. how do they work to keep the hatchet. -- hatchet buried? guest: when she arrived at the state department, she was explicit with her staff that she would not listen or tolerate any

bad mouthing of the president. i did find -- i scratched that itch and found some of the concerns that the state department has with the white house and vice versa, at the staff level, to are always going to exist. they are not as serious as some of this rifts of the past. she is determined to stay on good terms with the president, even if she has some trouble sometimes awfully relating to h -- fully relating to him. no secretary of state, without the confidence of the president, can succeed. also, i tried to take the reader

through libya, egypt, some of these other big decisions, explaining how she uses a binder that usually goes on classified ocuments to keep her hair in good shape. in that sense, the piece tries to cater to people's personal interests in the personal hillary rodham clinton, as well as delving into some of the issues and telling some stories that relate to how she actually operates in the office. host: this story is available online at vanityfair.com. "woman of the world." jonathan alter, author of "the

promise," thanks for being with us. "v-t day?" -- victory over terrorism. yochi dreazen will be joining us. first, we will look at the other issues and gas for t = = -- and guests for this morning. >> topics today include the killing of osama bin laden and the aftermath, relations with pakistan, and the war in afghanistan. at noon, on nbc's "meet the press," the host interviews tom donovan -- donilon. the former homeland security

secretary, michael chertoff, former cia director and former mayor of new york city, rudy guiliani. at 1:00 p.m., on abc's "this week," christiane amanpour talks christianetom donil -- talks with tom donilon. at 2:00 p.m., on "fox news sunday," chris wallace talks with donilon. at 3:00 p.m., on cnn "state of the union," nato's secretary- general and former virginia republican congressman tom davis. finally, at 4:00 p.m., on cbs "face the nation," the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee and the former secretary of defense, donald rumsfeld. the shows are brought to you as a public service by the networks and by c-span.

the re-airs begin at noon. listen to them all on c-span radio on 90.1 fm in the washington, d.c., area. go online to c-spanradio.org. >> this weekend, the university of las vegas professor, david schwartz talks about the las vegas strip, an examination of the civil war's underground railroad. it the complete schedule -- get the complete schedule online or have it e-mailed to you. the congressional chronicle has

new features to make it easier to find information about your elected officials. video of every house and senate session is available. take a look at the new congressional chronicle at c- span.org/congress. "washington journal" continues. host: yochi dreazen is the senior national security correspondent with the "national journal." what stands out in this information released by the pentagon? guest: what stands out to me is how much that we thought we knew about him was wrong. we thought he was living in a cave. we thought that he was, at best, a figurehead. the take was that he was not involved in planning attacks, that he was an inspirational

figure providing general guidance. if the briefing yesterday was correct, they described the house in abbottabad as an active command and control center, meaning he was still running out it operations long after we thought he was not doing so -- running al qaeda operations long after we thought he was not doing so. host: what will they take away from this treasure trove of material? guest: it is the largest collection of intelligence on terrorism ever. hundreds of hard drives, dvd's, thumb drives. there are a number of things they're trying to figure out, like where is ayman al-zawahiri. they are hoping to find out more about who sheltered bin laden.

did the government know he was there? did the military, the intelligence know he was there? how did he live there so long? are there a tax that may happen sooner than -- attacks that may happen sooner than expected? host: we are talking about this iconic photograph from 1945. is this comparable to that? guest: it's a fascinating question. for years, there was speculation that there would never be a "v-t day." you can make a compelling case that the war on terror, as a concept, has largely ended. there will always be people in

the world willing and capable of carrying out attacks. but organizing birds all around which we set up our -- the organizing principle around which we set up our war is coming to an end. host: will this mean changes domestically in your mind and from a foreign policy standpoint, our efforts in iraq and afghanistan? guest: because of my men -- mining been unusual, i was searched every time i flip. it was absurd. people have similar names and we would be the randomly selected fliers. i don't think those will go away anytime soon. i don't think the security precautions will go away. there is enough of a fear of reprisal attacks that you will see more restrictions in the

short term. it gradually, those will begin to fade if they're lucky and are no more attacks. in the short term, i think you'll see more restrictions. there is a piece in this current issue that it is likely the beginning of the end of the war in afghanistan. the surge that president obama ordered was explicitly about al- qaeda. it was explicitly about the degrading them. by killing of some of ben laden, that has been accomplished. -- by killing of some of ben laden, that has been accomplished. host: in pakistan, the civilian government is dealing with the backlash. they are calling on the pakistani president to step down because of the u.s. rate in pakistan. the government admitted that osama bin laden did not know

that osama bin laden was in abbottabad. guest: there was a story and one of their papers. there have line was "our national shame. " for years, the fear within pakistan was that america was an almighty force with highly trained commandos and helicopters and had plans to come in and take away their nuclear weapons. he there america did not trust pakistan are they were in cahoots with india. that has been a deep fear there for years. what you see now is a fear expressed publicly that if the u.s. can command as easily with commandos and helicopters, exactly as they feared, might america do that one day with nuclear weapons. what does this mean about their ability to keep their nuclear- weapons out of u.s. interests?

host: york telephone numbers are on the bottom of your screen and you can send us an e-mail. you conjoined the conversation on our twitter page. trenton, new jersey, good morning. you are on the air. caller: good morning. i would like to know the difference between terrorists and [unintelligible] 1 i go to my church, i believe that terrorists is if you are not democratic, you are a terrorist. [unintelligible]

how would like to know the difference between terrorists and democratic and the church and state. thank you very much for your time. guest: the definition of terrorism defined by the u.n. and the u.s. is if you are againstg out violence o private citizens for political gain. al qaeda has no state of political goals accept to try to -- accept to disrupt the disrupt al qaeda would fall into that no matter which definition you would choose. host: osama bin laden cost america more than any bill in which is the way he wanted it.

guest: when you think about -- they talk about this in the peace -- how little 9/11 cost to plan and carry out on the power of help -- on the part of al qaeda, somewhere around $75,000 and a look at what we have done in response, it is what he hoped would happen. osama bin laden country business background. he comes from a very wealthy saudi family that has had massive contract for decades. he looked at this as an economic struggle and the media -- ideological struggle. his view was that you commenced in -- make the west bank upset self and tried hard to accomplish that. his goal was to slow down the western economy. host: west haven, conn., independent line, good morning. caller: good morning, osama bin

laden where he was stating -- where he was staying, did he not have the evidence destroyed? wouldn't you think he would have the smarts to know that if something should happen he could destroy all that information? even if that weren't possible to destroy the information, within our intelligence be able to pick up on with the advanced abilities we have to intercept many of those things? number two, there must have been some advance warning. there is no mention about or very little mention about the second helicopter which exploded. it just seems that the whole thing does not sit right with a

lot of the american people. not to show the body and proclaim the fact that throwing someone over a voter out of a helicopter is respectful of their particular religious beliefs. host: first of all, the video that was released yesterday -- use of the images of of some of them late in watching himself on television, what were your thoughts? guest: i thought it was surreal. we thought he was living in a cave. we thought he had dialysis. we got his arm may have had a problem but to see him sitting in a comfortable living room, an aging man with a gray beard looking older than we were used to seeing him and we discovered from the videos that he seems to have died is appeared before the videotaped publicly. to see an end is where it's even of domesticity -- this weird

scene of domesticity, i thought it was bizarre. >host: who took these pictures? guest: it could have been one of his wise to live with them or the career and his brother who were shot dead. this is a fairly big compound. you had dozens of people living there. it was almost like a family home video feel to it. host: the helicopter, $60 million was the price tag of that helicopter. what else do we know what about what happened and why it was destroyed? guest: this was basically a stealth helicopter that was never known to have existed until the raid. we thought these were conventional blackhawk helicopters used in afghanistan and iraq and it appears to be a new generation that has stealth capabilities and can fly led to the ground and not give off a

radar signature. it is still not clear why it crashed three the presumption is that because the compound although big is relatively narrow and helicopters landing one after another in a confined space, the cortex of when the credit by one knock the other when of course. that is the presumption. host: we have had a number of callers this morning questioning on whether we captured and killed osama bin laden. the u.s. did not release the photographs of of some of them late in dead. he was buried at sea with relative speed. how do you address those issues? guest: this is an issue that won't go away. it is interesting that al-qaeda has confirmed that osama bin laden is dead. there has been no attempt by al-

qaeda to say this was a u.s.- zionist plot of some kind. they always threw israel into this, as well. there has been no attempt to deny he has been killed. this question about the voter will not go away. the u.s. released photos of other terrorists. it is not clear to me that this policy move of saying no more photos and that's not who we are, that is who we are. week released these photos before. i suspect these photos one way or another will come out. host: this is from our twitter page -- let's go to hyattsville, maryland, welcome to the conversation. turn the volume down under television set and go ahead with your question. your on the air. caller: i have two things to

talk about. issue number one, i think we americans are just a very ungraceful and on reasonable people. we have given out so much information. al qaeda has confirmed that osama bin laden is dead. we try to ascribe to them and we still don't believe the fact that osama bin laden has been killed. i don't think the government should try to convince people that osama bin laden has been killed. they need to just go ahead and secure americans in the u.s. and abroad. issue number two, mr. drezden on

c-span, just said that the collective shame in pakistan -- how can we bypassing the pakistani government, try to make the pakistani people see that the killing of a summit been laid and should not be considered an issue -- the killing of osama bin laden should not be considered an issue. ? osama bin laden and al-qaeda and the taliban in afghanistan and pakistan have not only harmed the people of the united states but have so far hurt pakistan and still continues to harm the interests of the pakistan is. is.

guest: i think those are two fascinating points and well stated. about pakistan, the sharing within pakistan is precisely along that point he was making. most of the public comments within pakistan have not been about their sovereignty. they have not been about the performance of the military. they have been about not knowing how this man who has killed so many pakistanis and muslims and americans, they saw him as an enemy and the shame was that they allowed an enemy to live in their midst. the first question about engaging with conspiracy that istheorists, i think true. whether it is where obama was born or if osama bin laden is dead, those are not arguments based on fact. if you try to engage based on

fact, it is hard to persuade people who are not predisposed to believe anything you say. host: you put out another point in the article titled "mission accomplished" which is in the latest issue of the national journal. you say they have been quietly laying the groundwork for diplomatic leverage to the taliban. please elaborate. guest: your previous peace was about hillary clinton. this came from a hillary clinton speech. unless the taliban renounced violence and broke a al-qaeda has said they would agree to a constitution under which women

would have far more rise, unless that would happen, the u.s. would not affect those talks. now, hillary clinton says those could be the out talks -- outcome of the talks instead of the requirement. we need to figure out some way to get to something approaching stability so we can withdraw as quickly as we can. host: the taliban and cut our links together but there are some distinct differences. guest: there are, a lot of that blanket was personal. there were two men of roughly the same as that fought against the soviets together. ullah was trying to fund the taliban and obama bin laden help 10. him. it was almost like a crime family marrying another crime family. if that analysis is correct,

with osama bin laden dead, the taliban will not be as committed to al-qaeda as they once were. our guest covers national security issues for the washington journal. caller: why did george bush call osama binunt for been laudbeen i laden in 2006? of course, he is dead. i think the war of terror has been accomplished through this incredible mission. obama did something that clinton did not do, bush i nor bush ii could not accomplish. the tea baggers are mad that they could not do this. guest: there are lingering questions if george bush could have done more in tora bora

where we know osama bin laden took shelter immediately after. the commanders are asking on the tap -- as the bush white house to send in 800 army rangers so they could balk -- block off osama bin laden from escaping. this was turned down by the white house. this has been verified by a delta commander on site. there were times when the u.s. commanders in afghanistan wanted drowns and special operation forces but they were being shifted to afghanistan. did the war in iraq said that the hunt for osama bin laden? did the kind of interrogation methods that the bush administration used like water boarding and isolation and sleep-operation, did those efforts helped hunt down osama bin laden? many are saying that obama needs

credit but the bush white house made some difficult decisions like torture and that will go on a long time. they help set the groundwork for this mission. host: beginning with "the l.a. times" -- reggie joining us from st. louis, good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. it is so pursue real to me about arguments surrounding this entire topic. am i to understand that now -- it is shameful the fact that i'm

a republican and many of these people -- will we have the birther movement denying osama bin layton's death? we are heading toward a diagnosis of rabies in the republican party. my party is being taken over by copperheads. osama bin laden was not saddam hussein and had nowhere to go. they called osama bin laden a needle in a stack. let's get this straight -- we had osama bin laden and the mountains between the cover pass and pakistan. the special forces wanted to go

in. the past administration with a rumsfeld said we will use a taliban to help. we did not realize that the taliban was in cahoots with these people all along. he slips into pakistan and this bill -- house was built in 2005. how could we not give the current president his do? due? think he is spot on. there is this conspiracy theory that is no longer simply on the fringe elements of our country and society but coming into the mainstream that flat receipt -- refuses to accept what is fact. the birth certificate issue is one and that osama bin laden issue is another. it is a deep rooted sense of disbelief and sense of refusal

to a knowledge reality that is not going away. if anything, it is getting stronger. at times of economic uncertainty, there seems to be more of an adaptation of conspiracy thinking and i think that is likely the case. to the point about the narrative, that is basically what happened. it was delta force, not the seal teams. we were not thinking that the taliban will help us. we thought the northern alliance and the pakistanis would help us. with the pakistan would block the route into pakistan and the northern alliance would block the route into afghanistan and both of those proved to be false. host: the president said he did not want to spike the football. we also saw some other photographs by pakistani security officials of the other two people killed in that compound. is it likely or possible that

some of these photographs will be released by a third source so the president can take the upper hand and those that say he is not dead will now have evidence? guest: the photos that were taken by the pakistanis, that some of them late in's body was never out of control of the u.s., they took his body and left, there is never an opportunity for someone like a pakistani soldier to take photos. these fellows do exist. they are within the cia and the pentagon and people on the hill may potentially see them. i would be stunned if we did not see these pictures at some point to either put to rest the conspiracy theories or somebody's decides to leak some of them. host: this is something you write about --

guest: if we think back to the last time the obama administration have that long protracted debate about what to do in afghanistan, there were two schools of thought. one was to send in tens of thousands of more troops and to counter insurgency and the other school of thought was to send in far fewer troops and tried to have them hunt down and kill top terrorists. in july, that debate starts again because troops will start coming home. the school of thought that argues that the real mission is to hunt down and kill these guys, not to build a stable afghanistan that has a central that school of thought will be much more strength and that would have been before. host: yohi drezen is our guest.

v-t day is the title of the peace. caller: good morning. what we have here is a skeptical country because we have been lied to so many times it is hard to believe what we are being told. we could go back to jessica lynch, if we remember that, the big hero of the shoot out and pat until man who was gunned down by his own troops and it took five generals to cover up that story and we still don't know the truth of it. there were going to given him a medal for being a hero. he was charging ahead. of course, the biggest lie of all, weapons of mass destruction in iraq. that country was decimated after the first gulf war. they did not have a standing army.

they presented a great threat to us? we have a skeptical country. it is a product of our own government lying to us over and over again i would like to put a different spin on this. i think obama has been kept alive for 10 years as a figurehead so we can continue to invade other countries in the middle east. we have an agenda, obviously. i think next on that list is iran. by keeping him alive, we declared war on terror and he ran out of political value. host: yuri 42 osama bin laden, not obama. guest: there is no question is a skeptical country. the pat tillman case was a tragic case. that makes it even more tragic that he was killed by his own

troops. jessica lynch had been over inflated. the eight months leading up to this wordperfect. there were no leaks, no discussion of this, the mission was carried out in total secrecy. in the days since, the account of what took place changed pretty significantly. initially it was a fire fight and obama had watched from the situation room and osama bin laden grab a woman to be a human shield and some of them layton was armed and the woman was killed. there were these narrative dermoid details and most of those are false. they say osama bin laden did not grab a woman as a human shield and was not armed and was not someone resisting. he may have lunch for a weapon but who knows what that means? key details had to have been walked back by the white house day after day. jay carney said we are not doing

this anymore. we will not give details. the details they had given were wrong. the point about how the country is skeptical because there has been misstatements are lies in previous cases, the errors the white house may, if they were well intentioned, they feel the skepticism that he alluded to. host: did the media fuel that? they tried to get as much income as an as possible. it became wall-to-wall coverage from sunday evening through tuesday and wednesday guest: i think the media amplified it because of the normandy in the interest in this. this is one story or independently confirming this was impossible. there was no way to go back in time an interview this seal team. they were reliant on the white house version of events and if their event was wrong, it was amplified in the media echo chamber.

host: the white house came back quickly the next day and said this information is wrong and that was incorrect and this did not happen this way are they to be credited with putting out the right information as much as being blamed by putting out the wrong information are originally? guest: i think you're right, they deserve credit for not waiting. when you come out with a well crafted speech which was pitch perfect sunday night, when you have the jubilation in the country, each little mistake, no matter how well-intentioned or quickly corrected, the chips away a little bit at the jubilation and the belief that this happened the way the white house said. host: san antonio, texas, good morning. caller: good morning. can you hear me? ok, it surprises me.

obama can do something so right and all republicans can do is to say is their victory. it is not their victory, it is obama's victory. host: will go to clarksville, tennessee, republican line. caller: i was wondering if mr. dreezen thanks general petraeus will be confirmed for the cia and he is a good choice. guest: that is a fascinating question. my feeling is he will be absolutely confirmed. the deference with which he is traded on capitol hill is remarkable. he is the most well-respected general the u.s. has had in decades. i think he will be confirmed by what will he do with the cia?

he has done arguably more than anyone else with the possible exception of stemming the crystal in afghanistan to change the way the military and cia cooperate. it will be interesting because he is used to being at the head of a military base where people salute and carry out your orders. that is not the cia. that is a different culture. how he adjusts remains to be seen. host: we will have the confirmation hearings of leon panetta to replace bob gates. any indication he will face any resistance in this senate? guest: this operation takes care of that, despite any opposition he might have faced. caller: i would like to have people stop and remember history when daddy bush asked

his son of you want to be present when he was governor and he said if you do, i want to go after saddam hussein. with ronald reagan, he said we don't need the hijackers any more. clinton was not given a second chance to go get osama bin laden because the republicans were in charge of the congress and did not give them more money. benigno down to daddy bush -- not daddy bush, but george bush , he was reading the book. there is a program with a

photograph where bush for three minutes denies that he wanted go in and get saddam hussein. host: here is another comment -- guest: there is certainly a right to be skeptical which in some ways is the cornerstone of our country. the mistakes made about pat tillman and jessica lens and a justification for the war in iraq or documented. the u.s. made enormous mistakes or lied depending on your political beliefs. we made mistakes as a country about what we thought happened with pat tillman and what saddam hussein had or did not have. trying to make this as an hourly to find a partisan issue as republicans or universally bad on terrorism and obama has been

universe the right and democrats have always been soft -- it obscures' the point. fundamentally, this was an american triumph. this is a triumph of the american intelligence community, president obama made one of the gutsiest call in the last 20 or 30 years. it is easy to think of all things that could have gone wrong. the helicopters could have crashed with the hostage rescue in iran and the compound could have been well-defended osama bin laden could have had a suicide vested you could have had u.s. casualties or he might not have been there. you could have pakistani troops shooting at u.s. commandos. so many things could have gone wrong disastrously. if this mission failed, think of what the debate would be now. it would not be what president obama's handling of the economy

and health reform, it would have been help with this democratic president be soft on national defense and screw this up so badly. as we celebrate everything that was done right, things could easily have gone wrong. host: your with "the national journal." you have a cover story entitled "mission accomplished." thanks for being with us on c- span we have our sunday roundtable coming up in a couple of minutes. we will get a perspective on some political matters including jon huntsman and south carolina this weekend. he is likely to formally enter the 2012 presidential race sometime in early june. "washington journal" but first a look at some of the other news and events as seen by

cartoonists around the country. ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ >> this weekend, the former utah governor and ambassador to china, jon huntsman, delivers the commencement address at university of south carolina. they are the first southern state to hold a presidential primary. watch tonight on cspan's "road to the white house." >> there is a saying in the military that if the amateurs do it over and over until they get it right, the professionals do it over and over until they can to get it wrong. >> dick couch was a platoon leader of seal team won during

vietnam. he will discuss the life and training of today's navy seals on cspan's "q &a." it is available online at c- span.org/podcast. "washington journal" continues. host: our sunday round table with eric houser, chris hennick, thank you both for being with us. let me begin with jon huntsman and south carolina yesterday. by all accounts, he is entering the presidential race next month. >guest: a new set of eyeballs was his main lead where he started this day and spoke at the commencement at the university of south carolina and he has another commencement in new hampshire. here "-- he clearly has a plan.

republicans want a fresh face and i think he clearly is a candidate, reputable government official. host: the word in " the new york times" remains unsettled guest: it is about money. the an arm of this much potential candidates and this little money is troubling for the party. host: why? guest: 2 many candidates, not enough money. there are three problems to the republican presidential candidates. they have a couple of candidates, at least, who are french at best but very well known. second, they don't have much money and third, they lost one of the major arguments in the last 10 days. host: let me share review what

ambassador huntsman said yesterday. it is about 80 minutes and is available on our website at c- span.org. he was appointed to serve as ambassador to china by president obama and the talk about that yesterday. . >> give back, as much as you are able, work to keep america great, serve her it passed. i was, by a president of a different political party. in the end, while we might not all the of one party, we are all part of one nation. host: will that argument worked in a republican primary? guest: that is about the only one he has now. i think it is powerful. it shows a sense of service speaking to young graduates. he made a generational. we will soon see. the republicans will look at a vast batch of candidates.

there is no limit to choose from. this is his first step and i have to say that selecting these two states is pretty smart host: you spent some time working for rudy giuliani. he may still enter the 2012 race. guest: it is still yet to be determined critic. he wants to see where he fits in the field. that is still out there but we are going into the third or fourth quarter pre-presidential. in 2007, they raised $55 million in the first quarter of that year. maybe the third quarter of 2011 will be the first quarter of 2007. to some extent, the funding is not there. the decision making of the electorate is there a they we

will see. host: president biden will be in new hampshire to deliver a speech being called the kickoff to the new hampshire primary. we're also hearing the president talk about what happened in grant park and trying to recapture what the president and his advisers are calling the magic of that moment. guest: i think that is important. one of the problems the obama administration has as a governing force and engaged political force is a lack of fire. the last 10 days, in two extremes, taking on the birther issue and the killing of osama bin laden has begun to change that a bit and brought him back

to some of the fire of his roots and i think that is important. i don't know how they do this but i think that enthusiasm would be an important component. host: which states are pivotal states for the democrats? guest: it is like playing baseball in november. karl rove talking about what states are important today is me trying to pick the cubs' lineup in november for the next spring. he is a good mother and a petition but it is irrelevant because nobody knows who the candidates would be. the obvious answer is ohio, florida, pennsylvania, indiana, virginia of but i think it is too early to project based on a

potential gop. host: these are swing states often called purple states vs. pennsylvania and california which are viewed as a lock for the democrats. guest: we would like indiana to be a purple state forever. we don't know that yet. lightning struck in 2008 and everybody on both sides understand that. they are wondering what bottle it will be captured in in 2012 and i suspect it will be captured in many small bottles and we will not see that wave of passion we saw in the two months leading up to 2008. host: what do you think? guest: the republicans should be considered with thepre-election calendar.

the census has changed since the 2008 election and where obama had the 10 states and obama carried and he is losing those votes. there are two states where he actually carried where he gained two votes. to some extent, the mathematics of where the basket in the electoral college matrix fits -- clearly, the battlegrounds you talk about, north carolina, virginia, i don't see where the president with his approval ratings in the state's that carry less time will be difficult. with georgia and texas and they think they can carry that, if you look at it now, where the president could have between 240 some of electoral votes which is a good estimate and the

republicans probably have 190 or 200. there are 14 states where this will matter. regionally, it is fascinating. we will see if it is original or just based on that. host: eric houser is a veteran of presidential politics and chris hennick who worked in the bush white house. let me share with you the debate that took place this last week in the republican race. five candidates participated. this generated a lot of attention. >> quickly, if you could raise your hand, if as president, you would put out a photo of a dead osama bin laden?

mr. kaine, you would not? host: your response? the question was would you read les the voter rolls of osama bin laden? everyone but herman cain would not release it. guest: that is a national character issue. it is an appropriateness issue and a political issue. i think it would be wrong to release the photographs. we know he is dead. the bad guys know he is dead. abouts a certain point american a story that says we know it and we are done here. releasing the photograph is frightening to the muslim world. it suggests desperation. it is unnecessary and

inappropriate. let's go to other jobs. let's continue to take down terrorists and not worry about photographs. guest: it came down to the comportment of presidential candidates showing hands -- my first advice was forget it. i think cain was onto something. president obama said we will never see osama bin laden walked the earth again. from the standpoint of moving on from this,i thought cain had the right answer. host: president obama praised mitt romney for passing universal health care in massachusetts. the issue came up in the debate on thursday.

>> stood in iowa in 2008, on the night of the iowa caucuses, and he promised the nation that he would do health care reform focused on cost containment and he opposed an individual mandate and he said he would do it with republicans. he broke that promise. he went to washington, d.c. and jammed down our throats one of the most misguided pieces of legislation in the history of the country that will make health care cost worse, not better. host: your comment? guest: i thought that was very clever. it was more about obama and his overage of health care rather than the mitt romney passing of health care in massachusetts. the audience right away was on the focus of health care. guest: i think president obama underreached on health care.

they took too long and did too little. republicans will have an enormous problem on health care because they cannot offer anything more concrete than their opposition to president obama. that will wear thin soon. we will see some changes month after month over the next 18 months that make people, especially seniors, more comfortable with the benefits of law that was passed. in 14 months, republicans will get tired of talking about health care because there will be better -- very little for them to talk about host:

guest: i can't imagine a worse week. the idea that he would say he will not decide whether he is running or not or tell us until his reality tv show ends is an affront to american democracy. he is a silly man and as always been silly. we are thrilled that he is at the top republican polls because that is the stamp for republicans. i wish he had had a better we politically. as a human being an american citizen, i am glad he had a lousy week because i hope he

goes away soon. guest: the decision to go to the white house correspondents' dinner was probably the worst decision. host: and he was a guest of "the washington post." guest: i guarantee was a guest of nbc. -- he was not a guest of nbc. that is an indication of where the party is. i think this is clearly a sense of where he wants to go. republicans look at donald trump as to where the unfavorable are with president obama. it is less about donald trump. it shows a weakness and a lot of areas. host: this is a poll from "the new york post."

13% are excited about mike huckabee. host: to siesta support among republicans. guest: people look at enthusiasm now of the electability argument. that was always an argument my sense is that the real electability and enthusiasm will begin when primaries and caucuses begin and when there is some winnability. at this stage, we will see candidates inject their own sense. i'm less worried about enthusiasm debs. if you total up those percentages, they are similar but there is room for movement for these candidates. host: our roundtable on this sunday, jesse is doing is from

chicago, good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i want to talk about the president and the rest of the democrats. they deserve a whole lot of credit for terminating a sum of unleaded. that being said, i want to let the republicans know that for mr. bush to take credit for torture people to get that information is odd. god forbid, we go to another war somewhere, withstanding the we have -- what standing do we have? we cannot prevent them from during our guys. as far as democrats, we took something great with the osama bin laden issue by getting rid of this guy and completely

screwed up the story. we should have let the american people have it the way it was and we would have been good with it. guest: intelligence matters. what we have seen this past week and where the previous administration set the table for september 11, i believe we are precisely where we need to be in the country. i did not see president bush claiming and touting this. i think he has been somewhat understated and let history take its course. as a country, this was what all of us should see from the issue of terrorism. if we are going to focus on eradicating terrorism, this is a

good step from the symbolic sense that we are on the right track. host: different times, different players, but some have compared the 2012 race, as to what we saw in 1992. we have seen some republicans announced that they will not run for the gop nomination is a fair comparison? guest: no, i don't think so partly because of timing and also the political environment is more heated now than it was 20 years ago. i think it makes sense for republicans not to commit now. there is a lot of time and there is not so much money. in the events of the last week, if i were a potential republican candidate, i would wait. i think we will have many candidates certainly by the

early fall. who are serious and engaged. the republican side believes there are severe problems with the obama presidency and i think they will move on them. one comment about president bush, a man i don't think well of or admire. chris is right, this was a 10- year operation. the torture issues are a big problem. for anyone to claim that this was one party or another is completely false. host: let me go to " the new york times" --

guest: from my standpoint of experience, and mitt romney has a good framework of fund-raising and improve the last time. i think it is unfair that many other candidates have put together good finance operations alreadytithing matters a lot. we will see when major donors continue to tithe. from the comparison from 1992, the fact is that incumbent presidents largely win. if you look back at the last 10 presidential cycles, seven have one and three have lost it was ford and carter and george h. w. bush. the reason they loss was largely because they were in a primary. so far, this president will not

be in the primary. they lost because they were third-party candidates. it looks like the incumbent president is factually strong but we will look at the other candidates. guest: bob i am the last guy in the world to ask about tea party support. i think it might romney is eminently electable. that is one of the republican challenges. our guy is stronger, calmer, more direct than you are is their argument. the other argument is our guide will lead america in a new direction.

the interesting thing about the death of osama bin laden and presidential politics is we have never seen anything like this in american history. an unseen war fought in a place we don't know and the death of one person and what that will do to american politics, i don't think any of us know for sure, but i think that will affect donors, primary voters, everybody in ways no one has seen before. host: fla., republican line, good morning. caller: how are you? i have a couple of comments and only one i expect you guys talk to me about. the first one is about the candidates. the republicans believe that anyone can beat obama and why cannot now have the media.

i'm calling about the photos. al-qaeda is our enemy, not islam, would cut off our heads on camera. as a country, we have this debate about the fuss -- about the photos with saddam hussein and the arab culture respect strength and transparency. they show all the pictures and their culture. they said they wantthey want to. why do we not show them? guest: the first point is a good one, too. we do not show the pictures because we are better than that. i think about quite eisenhower, fdr, or theodore roosevelt. the idea we would do something like that as an act of war and

have to prove it to the world is an american -- unamerican. we have done it. let's move on. guest: i think there are larger points than the photographs. when you work in government and in the executive branch, there are more important things to debating then photographs from the last week. host: i read excerpts of this piece in the first hour. i want to read one sentence. "bin laden spent his days in a dingy room with no internet access, drawing his final pre breaths in miserable isolation and probable pain."

guest: i am glad you brought that up. i think it is an important point . if he were that isolated, alone, and cut off for five years, that is a victory in itself. i think that is a product of intelligence and military efforts we will never know about. he got thumb drives from couriers every now and then. that is different from him being in the cave with people with guns. he was in a little place for five years. we were winning that whole time, too. host: doug joins us from riverside, california. caller: i was calling in for a

few questions. we went into libya to prevent air strikes and into that hitting -- ended up hitting a compound that almost killed gaddafi. the next day, which killed osama bin laden. i do not think there are a lot of conspiracy theories in america. i think when we start to question, it begins to be a conspiracy theory. guest: from the standpoint of libya and what happened here, it is one thing about developing theories and another thing about where the facts are. you may get into the questions of the president on foreign policy before we leave. from the standpoint of being aloof with the iranian green revolution and in the

administration, they went to the united nations, the same organization that put libya of to have the human rights council, to what we have seen in bahrain and syria. from a standpoint of what this week review what happened this week with the president, i think it shows his decisiveness has improved on foreign issues. host: you are both political strategists and not foreign policy strategist. what are the chances he will visit this year? guest: i think they are quite high. it is a complicated than a minute. pakistan is important to us. it is upset with us. -- it is a complicated issue. its military relationship with us is enormously important to both countries from a financial and security point of view.

its relationship with india is of the utmost importance in that region. other than china, is probably the most delicate country -- most delicate relationship we have with any country in the world. i think a lot of that relationship will go under the radar screen with the american public. i do not think it can be stressed how important it is. host: the president is heading to el paso, texas, on tuesday to lay out his plan for comprehensive immigration reform in a move that may help him with hispanic voters next year. guest: it is an issue he should have been focused on for the first part of his administration. it looks as if he has taken the cue. we will see where he stands on border security.

if this is political from a standpoint, then it is all late. guest: i think he believes in the fundamental principles of comprehensive immigration reform and always has. it is a difficult political issue to get done with democrats and republicans. with each party for different reasons. it is very often for geographical reasons. occasionally for a ideological reasons. restress hisill prestre commitment to the issue. for all the americans who want the issue to go way, more wanted to get done. neighbors, business owners, public figures. i think it will get done. his recommitment is an important part of that. host: sean joins us from north

carolina. caller: i was wondering if they could comment on ron paul. he was pulling better than most republican candidates against obama. he has done a lot of fund- raising thus far. i will take the answer off the air. guest: paul, you do not taken lightly. from the standpoint of credibility, he has 111 code- sponsors to audit the federal reserve and board of governors. there is a sense of spending where it has been clear. libertarian is a strong vein along with conservatives.

there is a lot to be said about going around loop. i will take anybody running again that performed well before. you should not dismiss him off about. host: his son has said that if his father does not run, he will run. do you remember any time we have had a father-some combination? -- father-son combination? guest: not really. i do think he is a serious candidate. i would not have been surprised olled at 15%. he is smart. he has a serious band of supporters. i think he will be a serious candidate. host: he was in the debate on the fox news channel talking about the debt, deficit, and the

economy. >> if you have a government that provides the national defense but do not have militarism, maybe we could take care of people at home if we were not spending $1.5 billion a year on militarism. that money needs to be spent at home. we would have more defense and not less. i do not see why we should raise the financial debt. they will probably not default. they have money coming in. they can pay it. it is nothing new. our country has defaulted three different times. guest: with $3 billion already spent with foreign aid to pakistan, that is a key component right now. it will be discussed this weekend in the future. he is on to something about where we put our priorities as a

country. i think some of his positions will carry a long way. host: howard is next from california. caller: chris, i think you will agree with me that this is silly season and only political junkies have any interest in all of this. what is your title? guest: democrat is fine. thank you. caller: would you address the nlrb situation? at this point and probably through the election, i would like to quote one of the operatives that worked for bill

clinton known as the corporal. his statement was, "it is the economy, stupid." host: that was more of, instead of a question. with one of you like to respond? guest: a light to begin by saying happy mother's day to my mother. -- i would like to begin by saying happy mother's day to my mother. i think that is the best comment i could give. host: here is more from former vernorador and gov yesterday. >> the world to step into should bring the excitement and not fear, anticipation and not anxiety. the prospect for breakthroughs and conquering human disease, lifting the poor from

desperation, and bringing about greater world peace -- those are challenges worth your efforts. our system needs new thinking. we need a fresh generation of innovators, leaders, risk takers, entrepreneurs, scientists, and activists. that is you. you are not just taking ownership and responsibility for your own pathway, but for all of our futures. host: the remarks from john huntsman are available on our website. eric hauser, let me ask you about the white house reaction. the republican governor is leading after five years as the governor of utah. he is appointed as ambassador to china. he announces he will leave to run against a person who appointed him if he gets the nomination.

guest: i am not in the white house. i cannot speak to details. anyone who is the ambassador to china in this day and age probably comes to realize the vast significance of our relationship with that country and the region. if you are a man of power and money, it might occur to you that you could do a better job down the road. hearing his remarks and knowing what little i do, i think he is less of a partisan than perhaps a visionary about the role of america in the world. that is an appropriate place to go. it is unusual that an ambassador for a sitting administration would do this. i do not know. even if it is unprecedented, i

do not think it is a bad thing. it is probably a product of reflection. any politician that comes from the amount of money and power and can reflect on big issues might make that decision. host: you have a republican primary that includes two former governors. one past health insurance in massachusetts. the other worked for president obama. how does that play out in a republican primary? >> on paper, you would consider it would not play as well. personalities are involved as well. there are two candidates. we will see how other attributes up more than vulnerabilities. with mr. huntsman, is never a

bad career move for an executive to run for president. they have a lot larger chance and usually to get elected more than someone from the chamber of the congress. host: our next caller is from oklahoma city. caller: there are three points i would like to get across. when you said you would give bush credit for getting bin laden, remember that bush is the one who took his eye off the ball. if we had stayed in afghanistan, we would have caught bin laden. it would not have taken 10 years. bush left afghanistan and went to iraq. we spent billions of dollars for nothing. let's talk about the photos. these tea baggers talk about trusting the military and needing to listen to the generals. the generals of the one that told president obama not to let the photos out.

there was the idiot pastor in florida and burned region that burne -- that burned the koran and people were killed. paul ryan. the tea baggers complain about president obama taxing their children and grandchildren. i have voted for two presidents, bill clinton and president obama. none of my presidents are the ones who put us in this position. paul ryan tells me that i am 41 and i am going to get screwed. he told the tea baggers that you would be ok if you were 55 and above that he will screw your children and grandchildren. host: i think you have taken us over the edge in terms of your language. strong words.

let's get a response. guest: i think it shows there is a sense of anger in the country from republicans on spending and where we have been. democrats may be looking at foreign policy in the past. there is a saying in the old testament that is what is. this week has proven it is what is. that is on a whole host of measures including security. guest: the comparison worth noting is that in 1979 when ronald reagan was running against jimmy carter, the control of government was a major issue along with spending. it was when we crossed a helicopter in the desert and did not rescue the american hostages -- we crashed a helicopter in the desert and did

not rescue the american hostages. it is similar on the first part and completely dissimilar on the second part. republicans have a big political problem in that sense. host: one of our viewers is asking about an hour with each candidate. we have been interviews with some of the candidates that are available on the website. we will have more in the coming weeks and months as the race continues to unfold. nbc had a focus on the debate we have been talking about. here is an excerpt. >> you lost in 2008. what makes you think you have a chance this time? >> people say i am rich and a dead fish. they say i look like a villain in a lifetime movie.

why do they let me talk? [laughter] >> newt gingrich, i have a feeling you do not want to be president. would you like to duck out early? >> i would love to. [laughter] [applause] >> michele bachmann, how can you win over the independent voters? >> it will be like fatal attraction. at first, i will come off intense and a little bit sexy. over time, the intensity will become overwhelming. you will be afraid that you will make me angry. that can be a dangerous thing. cars get keyed. boxes of excrement will show up

on your porch. he will decide it is safer to marry me. i challenge you to a staring contest. it begins now. [laughter] >> scared and horny. >> sarah palin, you seem to have focused on reality television and twitter. what is new that you have to offer the american people question reports this week, weaving course one of the world's greatest films. i am thrilled to say good riddance to katie couric. host: that was from last night's snl. guest: that was good. i think we will see more. from an american humor standpoint, the more candidates, the better. guest: may be the enthusiasm gap

will increase. host: think you both for being with us. coming up, james zogby will join as to give his perspective on the events of the past week from the arab-american point of view. let's look at some of the topics and guests. >> beginning at noon on c-span radio, reairs of network talk shows. topics include the killing of osama bin laden and the aftermath, relations with pakistan, and the war in afghanistan. "meet the press" begins at noon. the former homeland security secretary michael chertoff will be interviewed along with the former mayor of new york city rudy giuliani. at 1:00, "this week" will reair

with the pakistan ambassador to the u.s.. fox news' sunday airs at 2:00, chris wallace talks with tom donalon. the next talk-show will speak with tom davis. at 4:00, "face the nation." bob schieffer talks to john kerry of the foreign relations committee and former secretary of defense donald rumsfeld. the five talk shows are brought to you as a public service. the re- hearings begin at noon. -- the reairings begin at noon.

you can listen to them all on c- span radio at 90.1 in washington, d.c., area. you can download them as an iphone app or listen online at c-span.org >> this weekend, and jon huntsman delivers the commencement address at the university of south carolina. it is the first southern states to will the presidential primary. watch tonight on road to the white house. -- it is the first southern state to hold a presidential primary. what tonight on the road to the white house. saying that the professionals do it over and over until they cannot get it wrong. >> dick count was a platoon leader during vietnam. today he is the author of 14 books. on sunday, he will discuss the wife and training of navy seals on q&a. you can download the podcast.

it is one of our many signature programs available online. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome james zogby, the president and founder of the arab american institute. you are one of the considers to the politico. you wrote that the capture and killing of bin laden does not stop the threat from al qaeda. "national journal" has a headline saying the war and terror is over. guest: i think that is premature. the organization will survive in some form. bin laden is gone from the scene, thank goodness. that is important. it has metastasized as a

movement. it is in north africa. it is in somalia and yemen. it has even cropped up in places like lebanon where groups have been based -- embraced the ideology and great havoc in the country. i think we will see it's still in several places. host: you point out that the president needs to be serious and not gloat. did he strike that town? guest: he did. he did an extraordinary job of sending the message that this was a day of remembrance and satisfaction. i think the frat party atmosphere was not becoming. one of the things about arab voices is the notion we need to listen to each other to see what others are saying and understanding how what we say and how it is understood elsewhere.

the degree to which we comport ourselves since the right message to the world about who we are and what our values are. host: the president's national security adviser is making the rounds on the morning talk shows. ey told david gregory the fe found the largest cache of information ever gathered from a terrorist. he said it would be the size of a small college library. guest: i think things will be coming out in weeks and months to come. scholars will have a treasure trove after the intelligence agencies are finished with it. the fact that bin laden had material in his possession will prove to be interesting and valuable.

host: as an arab-american, what have these palestinian -- these past 10 years meant for you? guest: it alter our course on the path to empowerment. after 9/11, there were death threats. it was tragic in a double way for us. as we were mourning the loss of lives and the fear and threat, we were as frightened and stunned as all americans. but we began getting death threats. it was as if people were pulling us away and say we were not part of them. we had to be looking over our shoulders. three people went to jail for threatening my life and people in my office. we had to begin a massive education program about who we were and what arab americans are

all about. we had to deal with the hate crimes and policies put into place by the justice department that created greater hardship for the recent immigrant community. it has been a rough run. as americans, we continue to contribute politically. arab-americans' serve in the military and law-enforcement. we want this country to be strong and safe. we also wanted to be respectful of the values. you want it to be respectful of the values in our founding documents. host: let me share this from your book. though many western nations have seemed distant from the arab world, the simple act of listening can. enormous gaps. why are we not listening? guest: it is a human failing. we all have a tendency to be

wrong at the top of our voices and be too busy making our point that we do not here with the other person is saying. the breakdown in communications is one we cannot afford as we enter a more integrated global world. everything you say is heard. what people are saying to us demands to be listened to because of the consequences of not caring what they say -- hearing what they say. we will not have the arab world understand us unless we understand them first and have the ability to communicate with them in a way that we understand what they are saying to us about their concerns. they need to pay greater attention to us so that they can communicate to us and we can have a two-way conversation. host: we have numbers to call.

there is a member for arab americans only. you can always contact us at twitter or send us an email. i want to go back to when you conclude the reducing the bottom line is to listen to arab voices and hear what they are saying -- i want to go back to the way you conclude the book. you say the bottom line is to listen to arab voices and hear what they are saying. it can help to transform the way many western governments relate to the arab world. there is a famous line about never missing an opportunity. missing opportunities happens often in the middle east. guest: we have missed opportunity after opportunity.

i remember meeting with the czars that obama appointed. i told them they had to understand the marketplace they would be selling to. none of them did. they were too busy lecturing saudi women on driving or making videos that were fine for an american audience but had no way of communicating with the arab world. many years later, the gap between us and that region has grown. it is because we did not listen. the danger of not listening has increasingly grown. it is important to pay attention for ourselves, that part of the world, and the relationship we need to have improved. host: jerry is joining us from oklahoma.

caller: i was really wanting to get through earlier. host: i am sorry about that. caller: i know. we've talked enough over the years, you know what kind of supporter i am of c-span. we do not need to go further. with all due respect, i am a non-hyphenated american and make no apologies about that. you are an american. i hope you are. guest: i do not use a hyphen. caller: i am trying to be a good guy. i want to make a couple of pithy comments and ask a question. i want the government shut down completely. i have had a bellyful.

we have reached our limit. we have too many government thugs and lapdogs. it is time to shut the government down and decide what needs laws and regulations. as far as the gas tax, we have a prime picture of the politicians patting someone on the back wall they urinate down their leg. -- while they urinate down their leg. host: i am going to stop you there. i will take the issue of gasoline prices and pivot to talk about our relations in the arab world because so much oil comes from the arab world. guest: it is a growing concern in the arab world as well.

they understand the need to max out a certain level of where prices need to be. they do not want to see western economies suffer because their largest trading partners are in trouble. the saudis to drive the market. even though we are not major consumers of saudi oil, they help to regulate by increasing production when the world supplies are down and decreasing when world supplies are up. prices are out of control. we need to look at home in terms of domestic oil companies. we often do not pay attention to the fact that domestic oil prices are higher and the

profits in the first quarter and been obscene. this is an all-around problem we need to take a comprehensive look at. we should be looking at domestic oil companies and not letting them off the hook. it is easy to find an arab state code. it is harder to take along with the energy problem. -- it is easy to find an arab scapegoat. it is harder to take able look at the problem. host: you have worked closely with your brother john. the next call is for james zogby. the show is airing on the bbc parliament channel. go ahead. caller: the question i have is from an outsider's perspective. a lot of movies and tv programs

try their best to include all of america. by the way, i am a white, celtic person. the programs do not seem to include arabs. when they do include arabs, it is done in a negative way. here in the u.k., we have. arabic comedians, television presenters, and movie stars. i am wondering if it is time to include the arab americans in your mainstream media to make the idea of arabic people more accessible to mainstream americans. it would make it feel like the arab americans are not on their own.

guest: is an important point and one i have been dealing with for over 30 years. i tell in the book about meetings with people at the major networks on issues of stereotyping in television. we have come a long way. the image you make about -- the point you make about the image we project is important. there are significant minorities of other communities. we are not hyphenated americans. we're all americans. the idea of being americans is that we are in fact a global community. as the old commercial said, "we are the world." that image is important to get across in many ways. there is a problem in television of not having enough arab images that are not negative stereotypes.

there are millions of others in this country. there are hundreds of millions in the arab world that do not get reflected. i think that does damage to the understanding of people here and abroad about the complexities. take a moment to look at what happened on 9/11. we did not pay attention to the fact that of the 3000 died, there were people from every race, ethnicity, and every nationality who are americans -- including many arab-americans who died in the towers. they were first responders on that day. we're the world. we pay the price as a country. all of us do. we all work together to defend the country. host: in your book, you spend time trying to break through some of the myths. the first one is that they are all the same. guest: there is this

monochromatic the old stereotypes that all arabs are one thing. they are all angry, of one mind about all issues, and every arab is the same. that is simply not true. when you look at arabs in morocco versus saudi arabia, you get wildly different attitudes and an incredible appreciation from each country about the values and particular characteristics of their own countries. egyptians have a national culture. saudis have a national culture. it is important we understand the nuances and texture of the fabric of the arab world. it is a world just like america is a world even though you have texans and people from brooklyn being very different in culture and values. there are common sensibilities that unite us. it is the same in the arab

world. it is a world with rich textures and differences that we need to pay attention to. there's not a one size fits all model that you can apply to the world, as we have done too often. host: john is joining us from atlanta. welcome to the conversation. caller: a famous philosopher said that if you label me, you negate me. i think we fixate too much on labels and identities. we separate ourselves from each other. we're all human beings living on earth. we all deserve respect. we all deserve freedom. we all deserve to be liberated. the history of the world is littered with people suffering under tyrannical ideology please -- ideologies and belief

systems. it is the same now throughout the world. the arab world, people of africa, the far east, south america and central america deserve to be liberated from to radical ideologies, belief systems, and political tyranny. guest: let me take the labelling issue for a moment. we do use labels. it is a function of who we are as human beings. we have to have ways of describing realities or other people. the point is to not be reductionist in those, not to find one that subsumes the other. all of us have complex identities. at the end of the day, i am a kid from utica, a roman catholic, a person of lebanese

descent. my father was an immigrant. i respect my arab heritage and ancestry. i am also an american. my family has been here for 100 years. they have fought in every war and served in every branch of the service. the deeply respect the values of this country that are my values. as you look at me, it is important to get to the sense of all those identities and not just reduce me to one. it is important i do the same with you. if we see the other as we want to be seen ourselves, humor in direction and this course can be much more respectful and beneficial and productive of the kind of relationships that we want to have an need to have with people and the world. host: allen is joining us from santa barbara, california.

caller: c-span does a great job. thank you for having dr. zogby. what amazes me is is like having someone misdiagnosed. the misinformation in the media is amazing. it is very unfair. 80% of the oil comes from canada, mexico, and venezuela. 8% or less comes from saudi arabia. the arab world is like another planet out there, some people say. only 8% comes from the middle east for arab world. about 1/3 of the arab nations are actually catholic, greek orthodox, or christian. the terrorists represent less than 1% of the world.

the more they make them famous, the more they make them more powerful. the media talks about how much they will do to us. the paranoia is not healthy for the world war america. it plays to their ego and makes them more dangerous. host: we will get a response. thank you for calling. guest: the last point is so critical. it is so important. there was no question about the degree to which our country was traumatized by the horrific act of terror on 9/11. we made bin laden larger than he needed to be. we begin talking about global caliphates. listening to the last administration talk about the

movement, you would have thought it was the soviet union under stalin seeking global domination when it was a bunch of ragtag guys in pakistan, and able to move because they were under such enormous from those out to get them. we made the myth of bin laden much larger than it needed to be. i do not want to see us do that in death as we did in life. it is so important to get the facts down as you portray them. one of the things we have done is we have taken a situation in the states where people have no knowledge and created a sense that we do know. in the polling we do, we find increasingly that people are saying that they know enough and

do not need to know anymore. yet what they know is misinformation and stereotypes about arabs the muslims are taught to be extremists and fanatics or simply that we can never get along. it ignores the reality that exists in our own communities and many parts of the arab world where people do get along. this is a growing problem that we saw developed last summer during the outrage field of the building of the islamic center in manhattan. we have created a deeper division between us and muslims based largely on myths and stereotypes. we have created the impression in the world that americans are intolerant people. we have to be careful. we should not go down that road. it is a bad one. we need real information and not myth.

host: marion is joining us from north carolina with james zogby. caller: i am so pleased this man is on. i am going to the library tomorrow to give the book. guest: go to the bookstore and buy it. caller: the library is good. for years now i have been wondering, finally i found linktv.org and get information from the middle east. the palestinians murder one is were 1400 but there palestinians murdered in gaza and the israelis bombed schools

and hospitals, water supplies, electricity. no one did anything. there was no milk or cereal for them. you are the best person i can ask this question of. when there are things that blow up in the middle east like in cairo, we see these young people. they are intelligent. they do not look ferocious. they are reasonable. they just want what we all want. why is it that we get zionists on these programs to comment about what is going on in cairo or any other arab nation? are people like you not coming on? are you asked to come on question to you asked them if you can come on?

-- are you asked to come on? do you asked them if you can come on? guest: i was on a show where we had a delightful conversation about my book and libya. i have been on this program before. you are right, not enough. there are not enough arab american voices or people of arab descent or scholars in the middle east talking about issues that affect the middle east. the result is that there is a sense that the perspective we look at it is not as sensitive to the issues of the region. the point you make about the violence question, the life of anyone lost in an act of terror is wrong. it is one we should condemn in every instance. but the lack of sensitivity to their suffering is a real

problem in the media. the excessive coverage of arab violence is also a problem. i tell a story about a neighbor of mine when i was living in south central pennsylvania. he knew that i have lived in philadelphia. he asked if i was afraid to live there because people are getting murdered there every day. he read the newspapers in harrisburg. there was a report every day of someone getting murdered in philadelphia. i lived there for eight years. i tried to talk to him about south philadelphia and the italian market, the quaker community, lincoln drive -- t have none of it. all he saw was the philadelphia he saw reported in the harrisburg news. that is the arab world we see. we only see the violence, anger, and terrorism. what we do not know is about a

doctor who delivers babies and wife andme to his kids. hopefully with the arab spring, we may see more of that. i am afraid we will fall back into the old stereotypes in. israelis are human beings. arabs are human beings. we need to cover both of them as they really are and not just good, bad, black, white. both sides need to be portrayed in the complexity and reality of who they are. host: prime minister netanyahu derided the agreement and said the palestinians have a choice of either peace with israel or peace with hamas.

guest: it absolutely needs to be supported. problems will be in the implementation of the agreement. there needs to be a unified palestinian policy. our hope is that by coming together, hamas will come to agree to restrain itself and function in the context of a unified political program. you cannot have peace if palestine is physically and india logically divided -- ideologically divided. the head of the plo continues to be in charge of negotiations. they need to have no one from any faction or government in it. then you have this political merger of the two entities working out a common program. they will work out a common program.

host: what is the mission of amas on israel? guest: they have said they're willing to settle for a two- state agreement. my hope is that they can be tamed and restraint into increasing that as a permanent part of their agenda. you have people in the government of israel now who do not accept the right of palestinians to be there. you have religious movements to continue to call palestinians strangers as in the terms of the torah, as strangers who should be expelled from the land. you have the movements on the west bank. we know as americans who cannot make peace just between friends. you have to make peace between enemies. palestinians understand they have to have all parts of israel agreeing to a peace agreement.

israel has to understand it has to have an agreement with all factions of palestinians. you cannot just pick the ones you like and talk to them. just as palestinians do not like netanyahu and did not like sharon, they knew at the end of the day you have to talk to them to make an agreement. hopefully under the leadership, they will be in a position for american foster negotiations between a palestinian group that is united with extremists and moderates under one umbrella and an israeli negotiating team unified under netanyahu with extremists and moderates in a fight in one position so that an agreement that is made can stick. can the palestinians stressed israel is a big question. neither side can trust either. adult supervision is needed. america has to play the adult worlrole. host: some would argue have the

palestinian government, the israeli government, and hamas -- which many called a terrorist group. guest: it is a terrorist group, but they are agreeing to restrain themselves and join in a political effort to create a unified palestinian position. thus far, they have restrained himself from violent acts. should they commit themselves to their own government to stop using terrorism, obviously i believe they should. that has not just immoral as behavior. it has also been politically counterproductive. palestinians have suffered as a result. israelis have suffered. it has served no purpose. the agreement to help the palestinian government control itself. host: you said they should, but will they? guest: we will have to see. if we act prematurely -- i think the u.s. has taken the correct position to wait and see how it

works out. if we suspend all aid, allow israel to suspend the shipment palestinie, if more actions occur on the israeli side, it could sabotage the agreement. it is in our interest to progressively move people toward a better position and not provoke them to a worse position. i know we are out of time. i need to say it is mother's day. i want to give my greetings to my wife and three daughters and s on thister-in-law' day. thank you for the chance to wish them happy mother's day. host: good morning. caller: i apologize. i am not really. . i am from pakistan.

-- i am not really arab. i am from pakistan. we are kind of lump together. i just want to say why are there not media outlets that will hear the arab american point of view? why are you not trying to create your own? guest: we have a website. it is great. people should check it out. there is a link to it on c- span.org have a weekly television show carried on link tv. my program gets aired on book notes. we've tried to create alternative media. in this global age of the internet, opportunities are enormous. we reach lots of people each week. thank you. i hope he will dial in and law

on to look to the website. host: james zogby is the author of "arab voices." thank you for being with us. we have been sharing highlights of saturday night live, including a spoof on c-span and the capture and killing of bin laden. here is an excerpt of last night's program. >> earlier, the pentagon released the tape seized in the rate in pakistan purported to be the last will and testament of bin laden. >> allah be praised. being of sound mind, i hereby declare the following to be my last will and testament. as to my funeral arrangements, it is my wish that they be

conducted in strict accordance with islamic law. a designate my five oldest sons as pall bearers with dakota fanning. may be replaced with a look- alike. i do ask that they try to get the real one if possible. if by the time of my death, she is over the age of 12 or is no longer a virgin, my executors are to replace her with her younger sister if she has won. a 12-year-old virgin dakota fanning is my absolute first choice. as my family well knows, i have a deathly fear of being