should be funded by the unions. because the unions don't pay their salaries they can spell their sums on other things. do you think it's time to reform? >> well, my honorable friend raises an important point. whenever you raise a point about union funding, you get shouted down by the party opposite because they don't want any examination of what trade unions do or how much money they give to the lour party. i think they protest a little bit too much. >> i'm absolutely delighted to be supported by the trade union. can i ask the prime minister why he has trusted advisor that it would show no mercy. it would be big opportunity for private profit and it would transform the nhs into an insurance ovider and not a

steered deliverer? >> well, i'm very, very grateful for the honorable gentleman to allow me to clear this up because when i read about him being my advisor i was slightly puzzled. [laughter] >> because i've never heard of this person in my life, and he's not my advisor but i did a little bit of research, and it turns out that he was an advisor to the last government. >>here, here. >> oh, don't worry. there's plenty more he helped develop labour's nhs plan in 2000 which increased the role of the private sector. he was appointed by the labour as the chief executive as one of the 10 strategic health authoritie set up by labour. and when the leader of the opposition was in the cabinet, mark britnell was director of the nhs. what i d't know him i suppose party opposite knows him very

well. >> mr. andrew tyree. i can't understand why the house doesn't wish to hear mr. andrew tyree. >> here, here. >> i was i was rather impressed by that last answer but i will draw the prime minister on something else. the government pnned to have second chamber. could the prime minister tell the house whether he will use all means necessary including the parliament tax to protect the coalition's legislative programs. >> the short answer is yes, >> the british house of commons is in recess and the prime minister's questions will with turn next week.

-- will return next week. president obama spent s first day of the european trip in ireland. he would give a public speech in college green in dublin. he will be joined by michelle obama and the irish prime minister. live coverage on c-span2. monday on c-span2, the american israel public affairs committee conference continues with remarks from benjamin netanyahu. harry reid and house speaker john boehner. it starts live at 8:45 p.m. eastern on c-span. 2>> our "road to the white house" coverage starts with jon huntsman that began on thursday and ends on monday. new hampshire holds the first

election for 2012. -- first primary in 2012. >> this is a real pleasure, than >> this is a real pleasure, thanks for coming out. >> my older sister is a big fan of yours in singapore. on that, that was 20 years. well, we did a lot of work with the financial work folks, if we have an opportunity, would like to reconnect with her. would like you meet our mayor. >> good to see you, and thanks far wasting your good perfectly

good sunday. >> he comes over every sunday. >> have you enjoyed? >> it's been exhilerating. >> county commissioner. >> great to see you, county commissioners carry quite a load. >> we do. >> former mayor. >> this is the senior leadership. >> that's right. >> love this weather. >> great to see you, thanks for taking time to be here. and food i noticed, a little food. how are you? pleasure to see you. >> good to see you. >> how are you doing? >> my daughter, sara. >> hi, sara, how are you? good to see you. you can come say hi. hello, how are you? >> hi. >> good to see you, thanks for

being here. we appreciate that. hi. >> i am cathy, nice to meet you. >> good to see you. a pleasure. >> marte, good to see you. >> thank you. how do you guys co-exist in the same sphere? >> on the other side. >> never the twins shall meet. what year? >> 1980. a while ago. >> a while ago. >> a lot was going on. >> arr. >> exactly, and with germany all the money went and less resources. >> thank you for your service.

>> she was on the school board, she was chairman on the school board and doing a lot to get her hands around this thing and make significant "improvements. >> better than i found it. >> that's all you want to say in life. >> thank you. >> thank you for your service in an area that is important, education. >> thank you. >> thanks for your great service. >> this is an air force academy graduate. >> oh, my goodness, you have all the branches represented here. what year with the air force academy? >> '73. >> what did you do before that? >> i flew for c-21. >> the old jet star, or what do you call it? >> the lockheed. >> the starlet.

>> yeah, exactly. >> i flew it in the old days, i was a passenger a couple of times. had a couple of bunks behind the cockpit. i occupied a few of those bunks. >> it was before than (inaudible) on the side. >> true. they are in favor of the c-17. >> yeah. it has been around since the 50s. >> yeah. >> yeah. thanks for your service. >> thank you, nice to meet you. >> this is al warner here. >> hey, nice phof to meet you. >> it's an honor. >> cathy. >> thanks for the reminder. >> tell me about you. >> i am a state rep for franklin. >> and that's part of the 400

plus state reps in new hampshire. >> yes. >> how do you enjoy your service so far? >> i love it so far, i love it. >> well, it's a pleasure to be with you, thanks for taking the time. >> thank you. >> that would be great. we could do this. that would be great. >> would you like to do it right up here? >> i think the loud speaker is on. >> i promise i will not bore you for too long. that's my promise. a microphone here? >> i think they grabbed it. >> i think we have a microphone here. by the end the day, the voice is shot. >> i bet. >> i am good, thanks anyway.

>> if you think you need it for application, yeah. >> and it only will go so far. >> the plug is over here. ok, bill. >> you want to say anything? >> yeah, sure. see if we can get that to work. there we go. that's fine. >> thanks for coming this afternoon. i know that a lot of people have

indicated they want to be here, the weather is a little of an issue. sunday afternoons are tough. and i am happy you are here, and i know everyone here pretty well. and i indicated to the governor and i don't speak for everyone. but we really need to check the direction that our country is going, and going in the wrong direction in different areas. and it really all boils down to what kind of legacy we want to leave our kids. can we do something better? the governor knows about leadership. i mean it's a basic concept and (inaudible) thank you very much for coming to franklin today, and we wish you the best j thank you. maybe we can get this turned on. thank you, bill. let me take this opportunity,

can you hear me now? >> yes. >> thank you, bill and pat, where is pat? pat, thank you for your backyard, your hospitality, this majestic venue we have here, this is incredible. and the u.s.a. academy class of 1969. thank you for your service. we have someone here from west point. and we have someone here from the air force academy. now if we can all get along in this set of circumstances, can't the nation get along for heaven sakes? >> this is our one day together. >> we are in franklin and reminded by daniel webster, a story that is relevant that served in the senate, when william harry was elected in the early 1840's, and he was

preparing for an inaugural speech, and called in his friend daniel webster and edited from 3,000 down to a manageable number, and giving it back to henry harry william and gave his speech and died 31 days later, because he spoke too long and the weather wasn't good. and if we combine daniel webster and his presence, and for me in history that means you don't speak too long. although the weather is fabulous. i want to introduce my family, i am here with my wife, mary kay, the finest human being ever known. we are married for 28 years, and with two of our seven children. elizabeth, no raise your hand, and gracie. come here, i want to show you

what good political work consists of here. gracie who wasn't much familiar with south new hampshire university was there yesterday as her dad gave the commentment speech. and she was celebrating her birthday. and as she was celebrating her 12th birthday -- right? yeah, and they give her a sweat shirt and she put it on rather gratuitously and as if she's a local. have you enjoyed it today? yeah, thank you, gracie. she's a wonderful girl that has had a most remarkable life. and when we come back and in the future and when we come back for a second, third and fourth engagement, when we get to that point. because we understand that is what it takes in new hampshire. and we hope you get a better appreciation for this little

girl and indeed our entire family. it's a great honor to be back after serving our nation two years in beijing. if you want to get a sense of where this world is going and a sense of what the 21st century is going to look like. drop yourself in beijing for a couple of years. if you get a sense of where china is going, and the trajectory where china is going. and coming back from beijing and to here where everyone is excited about growth. you can't help but reflect on our own country and you see we are in a funk. people are down, they are dispressed, they are disspirited because they know we can do a whole lot more in this country. and i am here to tell you they

believe that the 2012 presidential cycle will be about things. and it will be about 14 trillion dollars, and the trajectory that our spend suggestiing is on wil overwhelm impact on everyone. that impacts our families and the value of goods and the relative position in the world. i think that people care about. and this nation has 51 trillion in public and private debt. which means that every family, every business small and large, every city and every state in our nation is dealing with a debt problem. and it means we all have to be smart, how we move going forward. second, i think that the discussion around 2012 will be about the revenue side of the balance sheet. now what do i mean about that? i have no doubt about where we

will be in terms of finding fixes on the spending side. congressman ryan put together a proposal that i think is good. and before long we as a country will rally around good recommendations that will address spending. but on the other side of the balance sheet, we have to grow and get our economic engines refired in the country. it's one thing to deal with the debt and spending, and it's another thing to deal with the revenue side of the balance. how we grow and build and launch the industrial revolution. i don't know how to put it. we have had a revolution in the past, one after independent aced after the industrial revolution,

and you know what i mean by creating a right environment of industrialship and enterprise entrepreneurship and it's about whether our public and political will is there. and i believe we have no choice but to consider an industrial revolution. and if we take one seriously, we have to have an environment inducive to growth. and part of that is about reforming our tax code. about looking seriously whether or not our corporate tax that is the highest in the oced, all the developed countries, it's conducive to following capital, we know that capital flees where there is risk in the marketplace. that's welcoming to capital. and i believe that the income tax will need a good look at and

review. regulatory reform will have to be part of anything we do to speaks to a new industrial revolution. because if businesses today are not willing to deploy capital expenditures and invest in their tomorrow. in the expansion of property, plant and equipment, because they can't see around the corner, they don't know what this country will look like in three to five years. why deploy the capital? you have a problem. three, the lowest of hanging fruit has to look at raw material and sources of supply. and the fact that we are bringing in 60% of our oil is a crying shame. the fact that we are paying 4 to 5 dollars for gasoline, and when you add what it costs to deploy

troops across the world, and the cost is not 3-4 dollars a gallon but 13-14 dollars a gallon. and taxpayers are footing the bill. to take industrial revolution seriously, it's bringing out the best in generations gone by. we know that we are capable of doing it. and despite our competitive challenges on the other side of the world, where we lived in the last years, they are moving in the future, they are proud of that direction. yet for every reason, given who we are as a country and what we have done in the past, that we can maintain our preeminence and it's up to us. and the election cycle i think

will put before us the prospect of a lost decade. you want a lost decade? it's up to us. or unleash the magic that this country has shown the world time and time again. as for us, we are in that phase where you kick the tires and have conversations with a whole lot of people. we have done that for the last couple of weeks and continue. and in the time of june, we will sit down together as a family and digest the information that we received. including the experiences this weekend. i have to tell you this experience has been extraordinary. you were dropped right in the middle of someone's neighborhood and someone's living room. with the national press there, and with neighbors like you who dropped by. and you were totally exposed,

and you sink or swim. it can be the most exhilarating experience in the world. and i am reminded through it all, that we do it differently in this country. we do it in transparent fashion and open fashion, and you develop relationship us and earn the vote, that's what new hampshire is all about. and i couldn't help be reflect of this open democratic process, and think where we have been for the last two years. where you don't show up in someone's living room and you don't have this press and have these discussions. this is uniquely american, and it's what made this country great. so new hampshire's contribution to our american democracy is unique and extraordinary. our american democracy influence on so many countries abroad is profoundly important. and i could say it all starts in

new hampshire and i would be proud of that fact. and let me end by this, because i know you are cold and probably want to go in and i want to shake more hands and have additional conversations. i would tell you that i am a little tired of divisiveness in this country and the americans being divided. and we all want the same thing, we want a better tomorrow. we all want my daughter's, gracie's generation to develop a better country than we got. and the prospect of getting something worse off, that is waist deep in debt and have no exit strategies aboard. it should not be accepting for anyone of us. and that should be a compelling reason enough for us to come

around common sense solutions. we will differ around the edges and the substance of those elected in the 2012 election cycle. but let's do it with a sense of respect, and we all want what is best for our country. and the world is watching how this democracy plays out. as we go, so goes other nations that want to be like us. when we carry on a debate that is civil and gets us where we need to be, that's to be noted of. where one side of the world is overjoyed where they want to go and on the top of the world. and we look over here and we are down and disspirited and a bit in a funk. i would say those feelings are not american. that isn't who we are. we are optimistic and we are hopeful people. we always think and dream about

a better tomorrow. but more than that, we get busy in building a better tomorrow. and i think it's totally doable. and as for me, this election cycle, whether we are in it or not, i hope that it gets out the issues. we don't have a choice, this election cycle is a critical point in this nation's history. and it's a critical point where issues needs to be addressed in the next couple of years, in terms of where this country is going. it's critically important. i know the role that you play, i respect the role that you play. i hope in the true new hampshire tradition if we decide to make this journey. i am feeling pretty good and confident about that, but still as a family we have to make that decision. i hope the honor of shaking your hands four or five times and

doing it the new hampshire way. because it's earned. it isn't given but earned. i get that part of it. we thank you for taking your time. bill and pat, you are terrific to make your backyard available. we are grateful to you. thank you all so very much and i look forward to spending more time with you. thank you for being with us. [applause] >> who would like to say when i was kidding about my graduate friends that we are actually like brothers. >> that would be you. no brawling on the back lawn. >> thanks. >> thank you very much. >> i would ask one thing of you, what is your opinion looking

forward of the economics such as china? the conflict and their idea that it's much conflicting economic strategy and national strategy, the economic warfare by another means and looking at security ramifications that a lot of senior military views. >> i have been knee deep in that one the last little while. >> their view of military and civilian. >> there is a big divide between military and civilian, and that's

>> it worked out. that is what is important. thank you for being here.

we really appreciate that. i am one hand this over. -- i am going to hand this over. we were here in the 1970's when i was a teenager. we went to college here. [unintelligible]

>> our "road to the white house" coverage continues with michelle obama. this is just over 20 minutes. >> oh, my goodness. [applause] you all are looking beautiful. it is so good to see you. thank you so much. it is a true pleasure to be here today at this year's national issues conference. i hope you all have figured out all the issues.

[laughter] you've solved them all. i want to start by thanking the conference leadership committee and the wlf national leadership for all of their hard work to make this day possible. the turnout is wonderful. let's give them a round of applause. [applause] and, of course, i want to thank all of you for joining us here today. i am thrilled to see so many new faces. but i am thrilled to see so many folks who've been with us right from the very beginning, folks who've been through all of the ups and downs and all the nail-biting moments along the way. and today, as we look ahead to the next part of this journey, i just want to take you back to how it all began, at least in my mind. now, i have to be honest with you, and many of you know this, when barack first started talking about running for president, i wasn't exactly enthusiastic about the idea. [laughter]

yes, i was proud of the work that he was doing as a u.s. senator. and i thought -- no, no, i knew that he would make an extraordinary president. and i told you that. but like a lot of folks, i still had some cynicism about politics. and i was worried about the toll that a presidential campaign would take on our family. i mean, we had two young daughters at home. they're not so little now. malia is here. [laughter] and the last thing i wanted to do was to disrupt their lives and their routines. the last thing in the world i wanted was to spend time apart from my girls so it took some convincing on barack's part, and by "some," i mean a lot. [laughter] and even as i hit the trail, i was still a little uneasy about the whole "president thing," and that's what malia would call it, the "president thing."

[laughter] but something happened during those first few months that changed me. see, campaigning in places like iowa and new hampshire and south carolina, that wasn't just about handshakes and stump speeches. for me, it was about conversations on front porches and in living rooms where people would welcome me into their homes and into their lives. i remember one of the first events in iowa that i did was a gathering in someone's backyard, beautiful backyard, beautiful sunny day. and i remember that within a few minutes, i was so comfortable that i kicked off my shoes, which i wish i could do today because they really do hurt. [laughter] and i was standing barefoot in the grass, just talking to folks. and that's what campaigning was all about for me.

it was about meeting people one-on-one and hearing what was going on in their lives. and i learned so much. i learned about the businesses that folks were trying to keep afloat, the home they loved but could no longer afford, the spouse who came back from the war, and needed a lot of help, the child who was so smart, who could be anything she wanted, if only her parents could find a way to pay tuition. and these stories moved me. and even more than that, these stories were familiar to me, because in the parents working that extra shift, or taking that extra job, i saw barack's mother, a young, single mother

struggling to support barack and his sister. i saw my father, who dragged himself to work at the city water plant every morning, because even as his m.s. made him weaker and weaker, my father was determined to be our family's provider. in the grandparents coming out of retirement to pitch in and help make ends meet, i saw my own mom who has helped raise our girls since the day they were born. and i couldn't do this without her. [applause] i saw barack's grandmother who caught a bus to work before dawn every day to help provide for their family. in the children i met who were worried about a mom who's lost her job, or a dad deployed far from home, kids so full of promise and dreams, i saw my own daughters, who are the center of my world. these folks weren't asking for much. they were looking for basic things, like being able to see a doctor when you're sick. things like having decent

public schools and a chance to go to college even if you're not rich. these things, simple things, like making a decent wage, having a secure retirement, and leaving something better for your kids. and while we may have grown up in different places and seemed different in so many ways, their stories were my family's stories. they were barack's family's stories. their values - things like you treat people how you want to be treated, you put your family first, you work hard, you do what you say you're going to do - these were our family's values. [applause] and then suddenly, everything barack had been saying about how we're all interconnected, about how we're not just red states and blue states, those were not just lines from a speech.

it was what i was seeing with my own eyes. and that changed me. and you want to know what else changed me during all those months out on the campaign? i mean, you all. you really did. i see people out there who have become like family. you all changed me. and when i got tired, i would think of all the folks out there making calls, knocking on doors in all kinds of weather. remember that? [laughter] and that would energize me. when i got discouraged, i would think of folks opening up their wallets when they didn't have much to give. i would think of folks who had the courage to let themselves believe again and hope again. and that would give me hope. and the simple truth is that today, four years later, we're

here because of all of you. and i'm not just talking about winning an election. i'm talking about what we've been doing every day in the white house since that time to keep on fighting for the folks we met and the values we share. i'm talking about what barack has been doing to help all of us win the future. at a time when we still have so many challenges and so much work to do, it's easy to forget what we've done along the way. it is so easy. but let's just step back a moment. think about these past couple of years. i mean, we've gone from an economy on the brink of collapse to an economy that is starting to grow again. we're helping middle-class families by cutting taxes -- (applause) -- working to stop credit card companies from

taking advantage of people. [applause] we're going to give working moms and dads a childcare tax credit because we know how those costs add up for those folks. we're helping women get equal pay for equal work with the lilly ledbetter fair pay act. [applause] and if you remember, that was the very first bill my husband signed into law as president of the united states. that was the first thing he did. [applause] because of health reform, millions of people will finally be able to afford a doctor. their insurance companies won't be able to drop their coverage when they're sick, charge them through the roof because their child has a pre-existing condition. and they now have to cover preventive care - things like prenatal care, mammograms that we all in this room know save money, but it saves lives. we know that. because we don't want to leave our kids a mountain of debt, we're reducing our deficit by

doing what families across this country are already doing. we're cutting back so that we can start living within our means. and we're investing in things that really matter -- things like clean energy, so that we can bring down those gas prices, scientific research, including stem cell research. we're also investing in community colleges, which are a gateway to opportunity for so many people, and pell grants, which help so many young people afford that tuition. that's what we're doing. [applause] and through a competition called race to the top, we've got 40 states working to raise standards and reform their schools. we're working to live up to our founding values of freedom and equality. and today, because we ended "don't ask, don't tell," our troops will never again have to lie about who they are to serve the country they love. [applause] and you may recall that my

husband also appointed two brilliant supreme court justices, and for the first time in history -- [applause] our daughters and our sons watched three women take their seats on our nation's highest court. we're working to keep our country safe and to restore our standing in the world. we are responsibly ending the war in iraq and have already brought home 100,000 men and women in uniform who have served this country bravely. [applause] and as you know today, thanks to the tireless work of our intelligence and counter- terrorism communities and the heroic efforts of our troops, the man behind the 9/11 attacks and so many other horrific acts has finally been brought to justice. [applause] and finally, we're tackling, of

course, two issues that are near and dear to my heart, both as a first lady and as a mom. as you've heard, the first is childhood obesity. this issue doesn't just affect our kids' health and how they feel. it affects how they feel about themselves and whether they have the energy and the stamina to succeed in school and in life. so we're working hard to get better food into our schools and our communities and to help parents make better decisions for their kids. and we're seeing some change. [applause] the second issue is one that i came to on the campaign trail, meeting so many extraordinary military families. i mean, these folks are raising their kids and running their households all alone while spouses are deployed, and they do it all with tremendous courage, strength and pride. and that's why jill and i launched a nationwide campaign to rally our country to serve

them as well as they serve us. [applause] so look, that's just some of what has been accomplished. and i think that it's fair to say that we've seen some change. and we should be proud of what we've accomplished. but we should not be satisfied, because we know that we are still nowhere near winning the future. not when so many of our kids don't have what they need to succeed. not when so many of our businesses don't have what they need to compete. not when so many folks are still struggling to pay the bills today. the truth is that all those

folks we campaigned for, and won for, and that have been fighting for us and we've been fighting for over these past two years, those folks still need our help. and that, more than anything else, is what drives my husband as president. i mean, let me tell you, that's what i see when he comes home after a long day traveling around the country, meeting with folks in that oval office, doing things. [laughter] they do things in that office. [laughter] and he tells me about the people he's met. and i see it in those quiet moments late at night, after we put the girls to bed, and he's reading the letters people have sent him, because he reads everything. the letter from the woman dying of cancer whose health insurance wouldn't cover her care.

the letter from the young person with so much promise, but so few opportunities. and you all -- i see the sadness and the worry creasing his face. i hear the passion and the determination in his voice. says, "you won't believe what these folks are going through." that's what he tells me. he says, "michelle, this is not right. we've got to fix it. and we have to do more." let me share something with you. when it comes to the people that he meets, barack has a memory like a steel trap. [laughter] i mean, you all know this, right? he might not remember your name, but if he's had a few minutes and a decent conversation with you, he will never forget your story. it's a gift -- it becomes imprinted in his mind and on his heart. and that's what he carries with him every single day - that

collection of hopes, and dreams and struggles. that's where barack gets his passion. and that's why he works so very hard every day. it's unbelievable, starting first thing in the morning everyday and going late into the night, hunched over briefings, reading every single word of every single memo he gets, making notes, writing questions, making sure he knows more than the people briefing him, because all of those wins and losses are not wins and losses for him. they're wins and losses for the folks whose stories he carries with him, the folks he worries about and prays about before he goes to bed at night. in the end, for barack, and for me, and for so many of you, that is what politics is about. it is not about one person. it's not about one president.

it's about how we can and should work together to make real change that makes a real difference in people's lives. the young person attending college today because she can finally afford it, that's what this is about. the mom or the dad who can take their child to a doctor because of health reform, the folks who are working on the line today at places like gm, and bringing home a good paycheck for their families, that's what this is about. [applause] and look, folks, now, more than ever before, we need to finish what we've started and we need your help. we need all of you to be with us for the next phase of our journey. and i am not going to kid you, because i never do, i said this in the first campaign it is

going to be long. [laughter] it is going to be hard. it's designed that way. [laughter] and there will be plenty of twists and turns along the way. but here's the thing about my husband - and this is something that i'd appreciate even if he hadn't shown the good sense to marry me -- (laughter and applause) -- that even in the toughest moments, when it seems like all is lost, and everybody is wringing their hands, and calling, worrying and calling -- what's going on, what's he doing, what's going on -- i'm one of those people. [laughter] barack obama never loses sight of the end goal. he never lets himself get

distracted by the chatter and the noise, even if it comes from some of his best supporters. he just keeps moving forward. and in those moments when we're all sweating it, when we're worried that the bill won't pass, or the negotiations might fall through, barack always reminds me that we're playing a long game here. [applause] he reminds me that change is slow. he reminds me that change doesn't happen all at once. but he says that if we keep showing up, if we keep fighting the good fight, and doing what we know is right, then eventually we will get there. we always have. and that's what he needs from you.

he needs you to be in this with him for the long haul. he needs you to hold fast to our vision and our values and our dreams for our kids and for our country. he needs you to work like you have never worked before, people. because that's what i plan on doing. [applause] i'm not going to ask you to do anything that i wouldn't do. and i will not be doing it just as a wife or as a first lady. i'll be doing it as a mother, who wants to leave a legacy for my children. [applause] and more than that, i'll be doing it as a citizen who knows what we can do together to

changed the country. >> we will have live coverage starting 12:30 eastern on c- span2. the house returns on monday at 2:00 p.m. eastern for legislative business with roll call votes expected after 6:30 p.m. on several bills on veterans' programs. later in the week, the defense authorization bill. you can follow the house live on c-span. the senate comes back monday at 2:00 p.m. eastern for general speeches. they will take up the bill to extend the expiring provisions of the patriot act, a procedural vote at 5:00 p.m. eastern. live coverage of the senate always on c-span2. monday on c-span2, at the american israel public affairs

committee policy conference continues with remarks from benjamin netanyahu. senate majority leader harry reid, and house speaker john boehner. that starts at 8:45 p.m. eastern on c-span2. a new report of the future of pakistan was released by the asia society and u.s. institute of peace. next, remarks from of former pakistan and some -- on a farm -- from a former pakistani sign official. this is two hours.

>> i hope you will get a chance to see the rest of the building even though parts of but are in secure areas. i am dead deputy provost of the academy for international conflict management and peace. usip was established by congress in 1984 as an end of the net national institution dedicated to helping prevent, resolve, and manage violent international conflict around the world. the subject of our panel today, pakistan, is something -- is a place where we are thinking about printing and managing violent conflict. like the asia society, hosting the event, we are in non-profit and non-partisan institution.

we work in that field, and the classroom, and to research, conferences, public education, and we have many partners and the asia society is one of them. i will not mention all the things that we work with the week at a joint brand project. -- a joint grant project. the cages -- the asia society helps us out with one of the courses we did in our new academy with expertise on china. another am very pardon port and other important part of the world. nothing is more central to conflict and pakistan. we're very pleased to offer this the new here in washington for the asia society to launch its report on pakistan 2020, a

vision for building a better future. usip's adviser will be in charge of the panel discussion. he was part of the study group that put this together. we think it is a very good report. it will be an interesting panel and we look forward to your act of participation under the ground rules which he will set forward. i will now like to turn this over to my colleague in counterpart from the asia society who would be the second welcome for the day and then we will get on to the panel. the vice president for global policy program of the age of policy -- the asia society, thank you and welcome. >> the morning everyone and thank you michael for that introduction. that he began by saying how thrilled we are, -- let me begin by saying how thrilled we are to be here at this fabulous new building. we hold our partnership with

usip in high esteem and we look for to continuing our work together. let me begin by thanking the members of the study group to put this report together. several of them are here for our discussion and in addition, our project director who i will direct -- introduced -- who i will introduce soon. one travel all the way from pakistan to join us here today. i would also like to extend our collective gratitude to the late richard holbrooke who served as the chairman of the asia society for seven years prior to becoming the u.s. special representative for afghanistan and pakistan. we dedicate this report in his memory. the asia society established this study group to assess the political, economic, and social developments and challenges

faced by pakistan today. the goal is to provide recommendations on the way forward, how the country can begin to pave the path toward peace and stability in the coming decades. presents a report comprehensive package of recommendations aimed at promoting sustainable constitutional democracy, credible and effective rule of law, a significant expansion and improvement in social development, especially education and health sectors, and a peaceful resolution of the conflict with india. as you can see, we have set a very ambitious goal for ourselves. before i turn the podium over to hasan who will present the key findings and recommendations, i would like to take note of what you unique aspects of this initiative. i think it sets it apart from other recent efforts.

firstly, it is the first report of its kind in recent years to include a significant number of leading experts from both pakistan and the united states. 31 representatives in on. representing a range of sectors, members not only former diplomats, military leaders, intelligence officials, but also economists, development specialists, scientist, and experts in the field of health, education, governance, and natural resources management. additionally, rather than viewing pakistan exclusively through a security lands, which seems to be the norm these days, we focused on security challenges but also the economic challenges. we think that this is important to get a fuller picture of the way forward. and finally, rather than dwelling on what is wrong in

pakistan, really easy to be cynical, rather than resorting to quit, temporary fixes, the group really focused on generating pragmatic recommendations aimed at improving the country over the long term. this past wednesday held the new york city launched event at the asia society headquarters in new york. that event as on our web site if you like to view it at asiasociety.org. other resources are available there. you can follow us on facebook at asia society, and also twitter, @asiasociety. we created a hash for the report, pak2020. in the interest of time, this is

one of the leading experts of pakistan and u.s.-pakistan relations. he is a fellow at the faces society and also a professor at columbia university's south asia institute. he is a government official in the administration of the prime minister benazir bhutto, so please join me in welcoming hasan. thank you. [applause] >> thanks, susan. welcome all once again on behalf of usip and the asia society. i worked on pakistan. the institute. we are very pleased to be co hosting this event with the asia society. i just want to set up few ground rules to let everyone how we will proceed and say a few words. please make sure your cellphones

are turned off or are on silent. major you remembered you turn them on when you leave the room. also for the panelists, since we are on tv, please speak from the podium and then in the questions, speak closely into the microphone as possible. yours is not going to work. [laughter] we will start with an overview of the report for about 10 minutes, and then we will have our two panelists say a few words about the report. i will come back to him if he had any responses on what was said of the panel. and make sure we have ample time for any questions from the floor. i'll let the task members say anything from the floor of the one. let me join in congratulating them for this report.

the number of hostilities on going on the future pakistan seems to be the subject of debate. their projections, predictions, all sorts of things, which some of them i am part of as well. but this is the most comprehensive and holistic product which i have seen so far. i want to congratulate you and your team. i think it has the right sort of mix of people, even though i was part of it, but the right mix of people which we do not see often, both the pakistanis and international experts. >> thank you very much, usip and asia society. it is a privilege and honor to be here for the first time in over a month or so. i want to begin with thinking be

a society for the freedom to work on this project that they gave me, and also all the members which if you see your names on the list, from a former army chief of pakistan to the former isi chief in pakistan, some of them the leading names who have worked on pakistan over the years. very interesting combination, very different viewpoints. i want to frame the issue by saying that in south asia, the words 2020, the first thing that comes to your mind is cricket. [laughter] and that is so because there is a new form of cricket. it is a limit to match where it

finishes in three hours. you had a lot of hard hitting. the match is very unpredictable. it can go anywhere. and we are talking about cricket. [laughter] the next thing i was, just google 2020. or pakistan 2020, the title of our report. our report comes up, but the sec it and the third -- the second report says that by 2020, -- pakistan will be erased from the map of the world. they rooted in. our report and conclusions are

in between that. [laughter] exactly. i will come to that in detail, thank you. the kind of philosophy behind this, some will call it old wine in new bottles. there's nothing unique, but this is a stack of proposals and propositions from which we get feedback, very different viewpoints. i was concerned about the former isaf chief and army chief, some very strong criticisms, and i would like to mention two of those. they were of significant value. one was a critique of telling us that look at the whole concept again, but if your optimism again, and those are very important question.

both were my mentors and both were very seasons, established and respected scholars. i want to mention that because that helped us. we focused on seven issues. civil and military relations and democracy to election issues, education and health care, then we focus on infrastructure, pakistan's relationship with india, and then the neighborhood. and then fled rehabilitation. it is not that we think that these -- [unintelligible] that kind of form that we tried to devise, the central recommendation of the report is

that civilian control, demographic control to expand. how will that be done? we're talking about a country where democracy is not new. and i need not remind us of the -- audience. yes, the democratic leadership is there in many ways. but on four different occasions, the people of pakistan pushed the military dictators out. one died in a plane crash, but there are many people, a group or really pushed the dictators out and made the difference. the question is, despite the literacy rate, there is a good understanding that it is democracy that will work. as i mentioned, military

dictatorships come, [unintelligible] that the central issue is democratic control can expand if there is good governance. it will take education, basic resources to the country. there is no electricity. there are shortages and there's no difference for that, whether a political leader or a military leader in pakistan. will they buy new military equipment are come up with new aid packages, there is always a team to go to the imf and world bank. what are our energy demands? another good example, one session on education.

the government of pakistan had established an education jobs force. [unintelligible] some very brilliant pakistanis, excellent support. after the report came out, and people saw was a government- funded thing, everyone appreciated it. five or six days ago, i realize that even the website of that organization is gone. the education task force, just try it. it seems that the group is been disbanded. one good thing that has happened they cannot say that isi is not involved in that.

or the military. that is be very clear. the government is in the realm of leadership. and they can make a difference. raising the education budget at the least, by a few less airplanes, for god sakes. that is why we're suggesting that the military budget in pakistan should be open for discussion in the parliament. just to let people know why are we building more long-range missiles and increasing the amount of nuclear weapons rather than schools. there should be a debate, a very open, vibrant media and pakistan. one of the most effective

journalist to its inspired some many of the young journalist, some of the big names and media in pakistan, but by and large it is working. [unintelligible] y as media not openly challenging the media budget? it is a very basic fundamental question. a country which needs aid after every problem, why they're using that outside aid not for building the homes of the people but for others. the government of pakistan the political leadership has failed to create that hope. we have tried to get that agenda. education, health care, energy infrastructure, and that kind of money that we need is something which is manageable.

then the link this to to other issues. one is proposing strongly that for that to happen, for this reform development, expansion of democratic governance, for that happen, two is a very critical. pakistan and india have tried every trick in the book from supporting non state actors to going to the united nations, to making the legal case, to making political dialogues. and so many other ways. there is no way out of for them to go. this is not unique. this is not out of the box. 2004-2007, pakistan and india had an effective enforcement. that has restarted. that has to be strengthened. without that, your democracy in

pakistan might not be able to get strengthened. the second thing is to work out -- and i will take a few minutes on this. d radicalization. in that sector, we have a section on security where we talk about fata and baluchistan. in the morning, the school assemblies in the beginning of the school time, the national anthem is not being played. this is very serious. and this political government and military leadership is thinking about it. [unintelligible] the central thing that needs to be done at this is something

which i talked about twice before the last couple of months. and it deserves to be emphasized again. there a formal law enforcement infrastructure in pakistan. there is one report which i was involved in which is a part of this effort. we are talking about the number of organizations, intelligence organizations, law enforcement, where there is significant numbers available there. there is a reform movement going on and i especially mentioned this. aid to pakistan should not be making the other side and comfortable. outside help will only work.

[unintelligible] the idea about democracy and a different entrench -- another country, and the. i am making is that if there is internal consensus and capacity for that rather than saying redeveloped this capacity for democracy all for another project, it will take 20 years. there is not enough of level of commitment of political will even on the side to go for such things for a long duration. we need law enforcement reforms in pakistan. in many cases, recently i was told that in a couple of cases, related to some al qaeda leaders, not osama bin laden, but others, [unintelligible]

some said, no, we can handle the assets of this and form a better. there were not trying to save that informant. they interrogated him and when this person was returned back to police, and they had taken to court, the person had become an expert in answering questions during interrogation. maybe get some information out to the military leaders, and this is valuable for the united states policy. but when the person was taken to court, there was not enough evidence, there were no -- no more witnesses available. law-enforcement reform is critical. without that, de radicalization cannot work out. this is just a glimpse of some of the ideas that you have given in the report. we wanted a comprehensive

approach. thank you for waiting in for the others for recognizing this. sometimes we go so deep in the one issue that people are forget the conflict. that is how things develop and progress. but if there's an alternative, to put it right, that becomes meaningless at times. we want to start in encourage this. good ideas will matter. and it is not a lost cause. do not give up on pakistan. i will close with this legendary pakistani poet. i would just say one of these. that is a message in this up. his most famous peom, what does pakistan expect?

[speaking arabic] the translation. certainly, we shall see. high mountains of tyranny of oppression that will evaporate beneath their feet, the earth will shiver and shake and heads of rulers will be struck with crackling lightning and thunder rolls this might be the direction of pakistan. there was a very organized effective revolution. and this current circumstances,

it may go there. the time for reform is now. otherwise it might be too late. the figure very much. [applause] >> thank you. i can tell you had taken the could take to heart. but me introduce our next speaker. the chief of a leading pakistani english weekly. also on television, also runs a publication house, vanguard books. and much more. the details are outside. i started my riding with the president and work for about six

years. mr. editor, all yours. >> ladies and gentlemen, i am honored to be here today amongst this august gathering. thank you very much for inviting me. pakistan-u.s. -- some of us had anticipated this. one reason only. the relationship has been since 9/11 ambiguous on both sides. and that ambiguity is now coming to haunt this relationship. i'm sure we will have time to discuss their relationship in the question and answer session that follows. i will talk very briefly of two

issues. two critical core issues, the question of civil-military relations and the question of india-pakistan relations. in many ways these are the necessary conditions for any reform to take place in pakistan. therefore these are core issues. civil-military relations -- hasan as a list of all the things they need to be done to restore the balance in favor of the civilians. that is easier said than done. the question is not what needs to be done, but how to do it. and that is an issue that has crippled the minds of all of our analysts and politicians to date. and every government taken hostage to the military. but there is some good news on that score. in an ironic sort of way, the

recent incident that triggered this new debate in pakistan, and frankly it is an unprecedented intervention right now that is taking place by the media in pakistani politics. until now, the national security doctrine has formulated has never been the subject of any debate inside parliament are among the mainstream political parties, or indeed, among sections of the media. it has been taken for granted. thestan's obsession with security problem with india is a correct obsession and that there is such a threat and therefore we need to regain a strong military presence in the country. but that is now being debated and it is ironic that whereas we should be asking about the u.s.- pakistan relationship and why

the bin laden incident happened, what led to it, we are instead sd in pakistan where all that money is going that has been feeding our military if the military could not stop to helicopters from coming in and operating in pakistan for three hours. what it's been happening to all the money that has been earmarked for the military year after year after year if the military cannot even locate two helicopters, or is completely on aware of the existence obl in their backyard for six years. this is making the military very uncomfortable. the question everyone is asking in pakistan is, not whether the military was composite, but whether the military is up to the job. in that sense, the chickens are coming home to roost.

and is not just the question of the military being up to the job, the media is now talking about the defense budget. the media is saying, tell us how much money you have been given over the years and where it is going. and the media is saying, we want accountability. the media has always talked about the accountability of the politicians. it has been our obsession -- corruption among the civilians. that this functionality of the civilians. but for once, the boot is on the other foot. it is now the military that is the object of derision, scorn, and more. there is better news. the leader of the opposition, who is everyone knows was in

many ways a creation of the military has suddenly woken up and realized that the civil- military relationship has to be changed, completely overhauled, number one. and no less significant, he has said publicly that our obsession with india must end. india is not the enemy. this is unprecedented. and it is significant that the opposition leader is saying it. the people's party has always said it. we have always said. but it did not matter. we were stamped as indian agents. they were stamped as a security hazard. what can they say about omar sharif. they cannot call him an indian agent.

and he has said, we want accountability of the military. but most significantly, he said, i am not asking for the resignation of the president or the prime minister. i want accountability of the military. i want institutional inquiry, and an independent inquiry. and this military does not want that inquiry. the military has done everything to stall such an inquiry this is what they asked the general to conduct an inquiry. first they told him to say that there should be no inquiry. but then under pressure from the media, they succumb to the notion of an idea of an inquiry. and then they went to parliament to ensure that the inquiry would be not terribly embarrassing. and again, it was the leader of the opposition who put press