research advocate. following that, a speech from supreme court justice as she attends the graduation ceremony at the university of south carolina in columbia. commencement addresses memorial day starting at 3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> this week on "q&a," part two of our conversation with his attorney david mccolo. his book is called, the greater journey, americans in paris. it's the story of some of the americans who went to paris between 1830 to 1900 to further their careers.

>> of all the people you learned about, who would you not want to meet because of what you learned about them? i can't think of one. i'll tell you why. this book was different for me in form than anything i've ever done because if you are writing a biography or writing the history of an event or an accomplishment, there is a certain obvious track, a certain structure that's built into the subject. and you're obligated to respect that and cover it, write about it, in all fairness to your reader.

the cast of characters is already ordained. with this book, i could cast the book myself. i would pick the people that i wanted to write about. it probably 12 major characters in this book. probably 20-some people overall who appear, americans. but that's a fraction of the number that went to paris during this 70-year period that i'm covering. so in organizing the book, organizing my approach to the subject, i was in many ways like a casting director. they would come in, show me what they could do, tell me their story, and i would say don't call me, i'll call you. in effect. so i'm picking the people that

i want to keep company with. for four years. and i didn't pick nin that i wasn't interested in or i thought would be uninteresting. so there are none that i would give a great deal to meet, to talk to. >> well then characters in the book, which one has the most to see in the united states? in other words, a home or a museum or something that you can see their work or their life? >> st. gardens would be? >> the sculptor. are >> what did he do? >> in my opinion, in the opinion of a number of others is the greatest american sculptor certainly of the 19th century, maybe ever. his most famous work is the shah memorial in boston which is about colonelshaw and the

54th meas regiment, the first all-black regiment in the union army. which most were killed including colonel shaw at charlestown. it is the first piece of american art to portray black americans, african americans as heroes. it's spectacular. and there's a copy of it in the national gallery. a duplicate. >> here? >> yes. his famous adams memorial, which is in rock creek cemetery, which was for the wife of henry adams, which is a very mistears sculptural work which remains constantly of interest because of its mystery, then there's the sherman statue which is in new

york city. it's the eequestrian statue of general sherman with the goddess of victory leading him. it's at 59th street and fifth avenue, magnificent piece. i think the greatest eequestrian statue in the country. and then there's the farregot memorial for admiral farregot which is in madison square in new york city. again, a superb piece and done in paris as was the sherman statue. and then there's his home which is a national park site at cornish new hampshire where you could see about everything he had done. he did coins. he did all kinds of things. so he is conspicuous. john singer sergeant's paintings are in most every museum. i would say that james fenmor cooper's novels are everywhere

in america. they're still read in school, still important. >> is cooperstown new york named after him? >> no his father. his father founded the town and he grew up there. >> go back to john singer sergeant for a moment because you talk a lot about him in here. >> there he is. >> what was his age? >> john singer sergeant was an american prodigy. he was a gifted noticeably astonishingly gifted painter when he was still 18. yet 18. he painted several of his major master pieces when he was still in his 20s. his madam x as it's known. his daughters of edward boyte. his spanish dancer. all done in paris and all done

still in his 20s. he was -- there's madam x. madam x was madam quatro. she was also an american living in paris. and this painting was at the time considered scandalous because of her pose, her low-cut evening attire. there he is, sergeant, as a young man standing in his studio with the port rate of madam x behind him. >> who is mary cass ath? >> a young woman from pennsylvania who decided that she wasn't just going to be a woman who paints but she was going to be a painter. that's her self-portrait, a beautiful water color self-portrait. she became the only american artist who was accepted by and

taken by, in by the impressionist as one of them. her painting is of her mother. this was the first american -- first of her impressionist paintings. and her paintings are largely almost entirely about women. women seen in private life, in the security of the home or the garden. doing private things, knitting, reading, having tea, and their hold on the viewer has been consistent for well over a hup years and her importance as a master, as a jean genius of american art only increases with time. she was a brave woman. she went to europe, went pursuing a career, seriously,

as no woman ever had. no american woman. and bounced -- bound to excel. and she certainly did. and having through much of her life to look after her parents with whom she lived in paris most of her adult life. >> not a which one but who of the ones had the most interesting personal story, the relationship or their wives, their children and all that? and when they were in paris? >> well, i think in many ways st. gardens is the most interesting personal sorry. he was an immigrant shoe maker's son in new york who was put to work when he was 13 years old cutting cameos, which was an art form or a craft form of real consequence wearing cameos was popular with women and men.

and he learned the art of cameo cutting. also demonstrated that he had ability as an artist and sculptor beyond that. and his shoe maker father helped to pay for him to go to take some art courses at cooper union in new york, one of the first art schools. this is after the civil war when things had changed in the united states as far as availability of training in art. and he went off to paris at age 19 to become a sculptor. he was the first american admitted to the bose arts. to be admitted to the bose arts would be a coup. it would be getting into one of the greatest universities. >> what is the bose arts? >> the school of art and architecture and sculptor in paris on the left bank, still there, the same place where he went. and he was admitted as a student in sculptur. and he studied in paris up to

the time of the outbreak of the franco pression war when he then went to italy to continue his studies there. so his three years in paris as a student. he came back in the 1870s for another three years, at which point he was married and his wife was a painter. they met when she was studying painting in italy. and her story is, and the story of their marriage is extraordinary. and i was able to tell that story because letters which number more than 200 have all survived and they're all in the library at dartmouth college, which is very near cornish, the home that they finally established on the connecticut river in new hampshire. >> did you go there? >> oh, yes, indeed. both to work with the letters at dartmouth and to the site at cornish. >> i know you've said.

you used information from over 30 different institutions. how many places did you physically go? >> just about all of them. harvard, yale, collections in boston, collections in new york. collections here in washington. >> chicago. >> chicago. and -- >> i loved that part of it. >> how many times did you go to paris in the middle of writing this? >> we go at least once a year. so four times. and we would stay about two weeks or so. the research was almost all here because the letters are here. the diaries are here. the letters were written to people back home. the dire were brought home. so the diaries are accessible in this country.

and as is of utmost importance, newspaper which was published in paris in english. the library of congress has a complete set of all those newspapers and they are invaluable. and it's still a book shop in paris. >> but isn't he an italian? >> he's an -- he was english. he's an italian from england who started a newspaper. it was the english language initially for england but er american read it. >> how much of that did you read? >> well, an enormous amount. i would guess that what goes into a book is 1/20th of what has been read. so that i read, i don't know,

how to quantify it. hundreds of pages of type written pages. >> did you do it here in town? >> i do it at the library of congress with mike hill who works with me or mike makes transscriptions of it from the library of congress particularly transscriptions of letters because he's much better at reading hand writing than i am and very fast on the computer typing it up. so he will often spend days at the library of congress or the arkives. transscribing these newspaper accounts or the letters. but then i have to go through them and decide if i want this or how to use that or i need more of such and such. and there were times when we would both go to together to look at things. i couldn't do what i do without

him. his help in that to come to leave home to come to washington or to go to philadelphia or wherever these different collections might be time after time after time and sit and transscribe would -- my book probably would have taken me seven years instead of four. and i'm at a stage now where if you would tell me he doesn't want to do it any more, then i probably wouldn't do that kind of a book. i would write something more personal or more accessible for my own collectioning or my own recollections. >> i'm going to ask you a question you probably don't want to answer but i'll ask anyway. you've written, what, ten books. >> nine books. >> how do you think this book is going to do? i mean, -- >> i don't mind answering that

at all because i don't know. i've never known how any book would do. >> what was your biggest? >> john adams. >> second big snest >> i'm not sure. truman i would guess. 1776 might be. i've never sat down and thought what -- how will this sell or what do people want to read about now. that doesn't -- you can't do that. >> what about your publisher though? >> well, they've never said no to me. whatever i've wanted to do, they said fine. i may have told you this story before, but we're all friends, you've got to hear some of these stories more than once. right? i was working on my second book and i went one night to a party and we were introduced by the host, a woman from washington who was a somebody or at least

she thought so. and i was introduced, this is david mccullo and he's writing a book about the brooklyn bridge. and she put her head back and said, who in the world would ever want to read a book about the brooklyn bridge? well, i was young, i was in my early 30s and i was just launching into my second book and i was really -- i was really mad that she said that. and on the way home i was practically punching the dashboard as i was driving the car. but before we got home it suddenly dawned on me that's a perfectly good question. who in the world would want to read a book about the brooklyn bridge? and what's your answer? and my answer was, i would. i want to read a book about the brooklyn bridge. the book that i want to read

doesn't exist. i will write it so i can read it. and that in many ways is what i've been doing with all the books. i want to read -- i want to write about john adams. i want to know about john adams. whether the great reading public does, i have no idea. and i've had a publisher who has believed in what i was doing and believed in my books. and i've never had a different publisher from simon and shuster and all my books are still in printnd and that means more to me. >> have you had different editors? >> yes, i have. three different editors. >> what kind of a role do they play? because you have so many in your family read it. >> it's like life. it depends on the personality of the editor. each has contributed substantially in his way. and i'm very fond of the people

at my publishers. a lot of authors don't feel that way but i am. that's, the reason i stay with simon and shuster is i'm so fond of the people i work with. i've had the same copy editor since i published my first book more than 40 years ago, still there, jipsy desillva. wonderful woman. wonderful human being as well as a terrific copy editor. >> have you changed the way you write and what you write on and what about this book you said you wrote some of it on martha's vineyard, some in maine, some when you travel. >> yes. >> sounds like a computer now. >> no. i work on a manual typewriter. >> still? >> take it with you? >> take it with me. if it can't go, i'm not going to write it. when i decided i was going to try to write a book in 1965, we were living in white plains, new york, i was working in new

york as an editor and writing at american heritage magazine. and i thought, well, i did my writing at the office on the job. i had a portable typewriter but if i'm going to undertake a book i'd better get a real typewriter. i bought a second hand typewriter, the kind with the little glass covers of the letters and i probably paid $50 for it, maybe less. identify written everything i have written since, everything, on that typewriter and there's nothing wrong with it. it is a magnificent example of superb american manufacturing. nothing wrong with it at all. it probably has 975,000 miles on it and turf change the ribbons obviously.

and my children and my friends, others say to me, don't you realize how much faster you can go? >> of course i can go faster. i don't want to go faster. if anything, i want to go more slowly. i don't think all that fast. and i love the idea of a key coming up and printing a letter. i can understand that. i would be horrified to think as i was working that if i press the wrong button it was going to zap out two weeks or two months of work. i'm tech logically challenged i guess is the explanation. and sometimes i wonder maybe it's writing the books, the typewritorer. >> what do you do about the information that you've gathered, the references and all that? how do you do that when you travel? do you have that on the computer?

>> no. i have it in file folders and i take it with me. i take whatever chapter the material for the chapter i'm working on. so i put it in the car, put it in the back, put it in the trunk just along with the typewriter. away with go. and i am writing all the time. i'm writing when i'm flying in a plane. i don't mean literally writing. i'm thinking about it. people often say to me, perfectly good question. how much of your time do you spend writing and how much of your time doing research. great question. no one ever says how much of your time do you spend thinking? and that's probably the most important part of it. just thinking about it. thinking about it. what you've read, what you need to reread, what you need to think more about. putting things out literally out opt table and looking at them. putting a painting, a

reproduction of the painting and looking at it and thinking about it or the setting. when things happen is very important to me. this whole book that i've just written is set in paris. where is happening. another book i wrote was set in brooklyn. another was set in panama. much of several books have been set here in washington. and the -- i believe that the setting has great effect on what, the way things happened. the way things went. the setting is part of history. just as the who is part of the why, and so really have to soak up the setting. so when we went to paris, i went there to walk the walk.

i went there to see it in the winter when it's awful and damp and cold and gray and in the summer in the spring and the fall. i went to, if i read something that took them 20 minutes to walk from his apartment to his studio, i went over and made the walk from his apartment to the studio to see if that was right. i want to be out there the way emma and others were and feel what they felt. >> that's a bridge? >> yes. a bridge over the season and over the city. it's the oldest bridge in paris, 17th century. the whole -- i think listening, smelling, feeling, what the

chair feels like, rubbing your hands on the surface of the cathedral sculptur on the exterior, all of that is getting closer to it. i'm trying, always trying to get close tore those people, close tore that place, closer to that time. and asking questions. i do a lot of, spend a lot of time with students lecturing or doing visiting occasions at universities and colleges. and they're so programmed, so responsible for being able to answer questions that i wonder sometimes how much experience, how much time they've spent asking questions.

that's how you find things out. ask a lot of people. people have a feeling that what i do is -- and others do, similar kinds of work, that it's a solitary endeavor. not at all. i'm with people all the time talking to people, working with lie brarnes, working with archivists, talking to experts, talking to -- when i was writing about augusta st. gardens i spent a better part of one day with a consult tur who does large pieces finding out how's it done? what's hard? what's easy? what's chancey? what's dangerous? and the same thing with painters or politicians or -- i remember reading once for example that woodrow wilson when he was a historian scholar

wrote a book very famous book, an important book, about congress. never set foot in congress once the whole time he was working on the book. you've got to go and watch how it's done. listen to it. get a sense of the timing and the times when people are not doing anything much. the dead time as it were in their lives and how do they handle that? i loved reading about wash bunch, for example. would get so restless sitting in congress he couldn't stand listening to other people talk he would start to rattle through pages at his desk or he would see somebody in the gallery he would go visit with them. he just got so antsy he couldn't cope with that side of it. >> what do you plan to do with that typewriter? where are you going to put the

david mccullough papers? >> i don't know. i'll probably -- i would like to think that yale, my alma mater would be interested in the paper. the typewriter that may become an heir loom in the mccullough family. i don't know. >> it's the same kind of thing. >> yes, indeed. >> people want to see. >> yes. the typewriter is part of the process for me. >> what about -- >> it's like driving an old car that you've been driving for many years. >> what about the little house you do all your writing? >> right. i don't know. >> in your -- i don't think about that. but thank you for asking. >> maybe i can get an answer from you some day. in this book, a couple people you write about are french. more than a couple. but you've got a big painting on one page and you also write

about one coming here and everybody else was going there. >> yes. >> put those in context. >> laufyeth was the last living hero of the revolutionary war at the time these young people were starting over to paris. and several of them, emma willard, sam yul morris and james cooper had all been involved with lafayette's famous visit to the united states in 1826. 1824. and they were going in part to paris because they wanted to see him again while he was still alive. and that painting is by morris and it hangs in the city hall in new york. it's a magnificent painting, very large, very important painting. and he adored these people. he gave a great deal of time to all of them. and he was terribly symbolic or

wonderfully symbolic, terribly important to them. >> and there's a big painting of lafayette in the house of representatives. how important was he to this country? >> he was very important in symbolism of an wealthy arist crat from france coming and joining in the fight of soldiering on with our army. also, of course he was very symbolic of the part that france played in our revolutionary war. it wasn't just that they sent an army over here but that they really bank rolled the cost of the war. they loaned the money that it took to carry the war through to completion and victory on our part. and in fact, the army under ro sham bo at the surrender of corn wallace at yorktown was

larger than the army under washington. most americans don't realize that. >> we're sitting here today in a city designed by a frenchman. lawn faunt. the french engineer and architect. the great symbolic work of sculptur the gateway to the country in new york, gift from france by french sculptur. countless rivers and towns and universities and colleges all over the country with french namse. we don't pronounce them the way they do but the influence of france on this country is far greater than most americans appreciate. we doubled the size of the country, more than doubled the size of the country with the louisiana purchase which of course was a decision made by na polian to sell that. >> another frenchman did this

painting. and you write that. >> yes. jerko. it was a painting that simply froze, captivated, enthralled americans first arriving at the lufe as it still does. and one american who was swept away by it and wrote very passionately and eloquently about it was hair yet beacher stow. most people don't think about her in paris but she was in paris a great deal and loved it and had a very profound effect on her. >> what did she do in paris and how long was she there? >> primarily to hide away from the publicity that surrounded her publicication of uncle tom's cabin. she had been on a tour in england where the book was not only in print but it had become

sensational best seller. and it hadn't yet been published in french. so when she got to paris, she could go anywhere without causing any stir. and she spent a lot of time at the lufe, a lot of time just walking the city. wrote wonderfully about the experience. started studying french. came back again another time. it's fast nating how paris, how it affected her. and what it did was she said it empa sized to her how much beauty had been denied her in her pure tancal upbringing in new england. and that the beauty isn't just something you see that someone else has created. the beauty is in you and the love of beauty is part of being human. and it's by being in a place where beauty is so respected

and so considered such an important part of life that you suddenly discover how much of that love and that respect is in you, part of human nature. >> your book on john adams ended up as a series on hbo. >> yes. >> is there a series in that book? >> the series hasn't been talked about with any intent. >> is there a story? >> i think so. i could have written a whole book on at least seven of the chapters in this 14-chapter book. >> give us an idea of which seven. >> the story of the medical students, which in many ways for me was the most absorbing, exciting research and reading for the whole book. what those young people went through. how much they learned about medicine that they could never

have learned here. how far behind medicine in the united states was. and why it was far behind. and the marathon, the gauntlet that intellectual student gauntlet that they had to run in order to keep pace with the doctors that they were studying with. >> give us a second one. >> the cooper morice story surrounding >> yeah. cooper, morris and morris' painting of the gallery of the louve. and what they went through. and the friendship that resulted in this consequence. >> we got a lot of french history around wash burp. but i wanted to ask you about the five republics and how many

republics were there in the middle of your seven years that you wrote about? do you remember? >> i don't understand your question. >> well, there have been five french republics. >> yes. i wrote down the dates of them. because you know everybody says we're in the fifth republic. >> i think there were two. >> between first between 1792 and 1804 and the second one, you have the empire. you get lost. >> yes. >> in the story. and the second was 48-52. you were writing about. the third one was 1870 all the way to 1940. >> yes. >> what happened in france in the 1800s? what was the overall story of what went on in that country? >> well, you went from a king. he was a so called citizen king who got power by a cow day

that. then he was thrown out by an uprising and escaped with his wife. their lives and lived out the rest of his life in europe in england. he's a very interesting man. in part because he spent a good time here in the united states when he was in exile from france because of the french revolution he had an aristocratic lynnage although he had fought in the revolution as a soldier for the revolution. but he came to the united states, sailed down the ohio river all the way down the mississippi with his brother. he was young still in his 20's. was a guest of washington at mount vernon. he worked for a while as a waiter in a restaurant that's still in business in boston, the union oyster house. so when the americans showed up

over there, in the 1840's, those american indians native americans were astonished to hear him say he had been out there on the great plains. he had spent time in there with their tribes and could speak some of their language. and he really had seen more of the what was 2 wild west than most all but a very few americans had. so from the point of view of the americans who came to paris, he was a wonderful king. and he was the kind of king who would take a walk in the gardens in the afternoon. it was sort of a quasi republic with the monarchy but it didn't last about ten years. and then came in another first republic and then after that came nap olian the third as he called himself who made himself the emperor. and that led to this whole

complete rebuilding of paris under him. the paris that we see today is really the paris that napeolian and his chief officer in charge of the reconstruction of paris george houseman, that's the paris we know today with the grand boulevards, the opening up of avenues, the planting of all the trees, the expansion of the boulevard, so forth. it was all done during that napeolian the third epic. and then came another revolution or came the franco pression war and after that war and other regimes took charge after the defeat of the common ards as they were called which was in effect the french civil war where they slaughtered each

other in the most attroshese fashion irrespective, men, women, children, just a hideous blood bath in paris. and the americans many of them were witness to this. and sometimes to their detriment and other times just as part of the adventure that, of that experience in their life. one of the most admirable of all is a young woman named mary putnam who was the first american woman to get a degree from the school of medicine who refused to leave during the seige of paris and the commune. very dangerous time to be there. very difficult time. people were starving to death. and because she was determined she was going to get her degree. and she came back to become one of the leading figures in american medicine. >> how many of these americans you wrote about died in paris?

>> we willtively few. some died there because they decided they would stay. mary cuse et died in france. she never really came home to live. but by and large they all went home. george healy lived very long life and was still painting and still very actively in demand as a portrait painter. late in life. but he knew his days were numbered and he wanted to die at home so he came back and settled in chicago. >> what other? we've mentioned a couple of the books that you could write off of a chapter. can you think of another one? >> i could easily write another book about augusta st. guns. >> he was called guss and she was called gussy? >> that's right.

she was augusta homer. she was a cousin of the famous american painter. >> it was almost -- there isn't a chapter i wouldn't enjoy writing. but i think that the chapter that is about mary cosset and john singer sergeant i would enjoy doing as a major book because there you have these contrasting personalities, contrasting american geniuses who are painting in paris at exactly the same time living in an entirely different world within the world of paris, paris is like all great cities, has many worlds within the world of paris. and mary cosset and john singer sergeant lived worlds apart yet they were practically neighbors in the same city and they both were painting what would prove to be american master pieces.

more than stand the test of time. they would become more important with time. >> one of the people you write about we haven't talked about is benjamin rush's son. where did he come from? >> he was the son of the famous benjamin rush who was a physician in philadelphia and who was one of the founding fatsers, signing of the declaration, the youngest. and benjamin rush had a distinguished career as a diplomat and he was assigned to be our minister to paris in a period earlier than washburn was assigned. and it was very interesting because he decided to recognize the new republic of france after the overthrow of louie when communication between

america and france was still a month at best, had to come by ship he hadn't invented the tell graph yet and he decided on his own to recognize the new government of france not waiting for the government in washington to tell him that's what he should do. a very brave decision to say the least. and a very important decision which was enormously welcomed news and applauded not just in paris by the new government but in washington as well. >> how did they communicate in those days when they were over in paris? i know things changed. >> by letter. >> how long did that take? >> a month at best. >> and was there a telegraph near the end of the 1800s that they could? >> yes. the cable was laid and they could communicate directly. >> what did that change? >> oh, it changed everything.

instant information. the franco pression war for example people in cincinnati or here in washington were reading reports from the front two or three days after the report was written. and if there was a delay it was just getting the message to the nearest telegraph center where it could be put on the atlantic cable and sent here. >> did any of these people die in coming across the ocean? >> many people did die coming across the ocean. the only one who did of note was margaret if you willer who was a very gifted young woman writer, an important american person and she died on a return trip. the ship went down right off of in view of the beaches of long island. >> i want to ask you, you have

a first sentence in this book, i'm going to read it. they spoke of it then as the dream of a lifetime and for many for all the difficulties and setbacks encountered it was to be one of the best times ever. how long did you think that sentence through and when did you write it? >> i rewrote much of the first chapter two or three years after i wrote it the first time. because as has been my experience with all my books, you know much more by the time you get to the end of the book than you did in the beginning. and the first page or page and a half of any book is crucial. it's, you're setting the direction. you're giving the audience the

opening theme of your symphony or whatever it is. you -- and i wanted to make it clear in the first pages of the book that these people were not going over to paris because it was the fashionable thing to do or because they were on a diplomatic mission assigned to a particular task. or because they're in somebody's employment and they're being sent by the remington arms company or whatever. they were going -- and they weren't going for power or for money. they were going out of an ambition to excel in their work. in many ways this book is about work and the joy and test of

one's purpose in life that work can pose. these medical students who really were put to the test like very few young men i've ever written about would later refer to it as the happiest time of their life. and yet it was the most difficult time of their life. and i think there's something very important in that truth. something important we all should -- the ease and hard -- ease and pleasure are not necessarily sin ommuss. and i didn't find one single example of any of those young people, male or female, who went to study medicine under

the most difficult conditions particularly the language barrier at the beginning. not one of them who quit said this is not for me or i can't take this and went home. there may have been but i never found one who did. and all of them later on would talk about that time in paris. the other thing i love is that henry boudage who was one of the doctors who went over to study in paris had a son years later who was leaving to go abroad to study medicine. and he said to the son, remember, what you learn over there of value to your career and your services as a doctor isn't ju what you learn in medical school. it's what you're going to learn by the culture that surrounds you in paris. he said i think i've probably done more good for some of my patients by telling them stor eas about some of my

discoveries and how much i learned in various fields of interest beyond medicine than all the pills and tonics i have poured down their throats that it's the old business are you treating the disease or are you treating the patient? and still a very crucial concern to the education of medical students today and among physicians today this realization that must be essential to the outlook of a doctor that that person that's your you're treating is a human being. and you're not just curing tuberculosis or a trick knee. you're attending a human being.

and touf understand human, the human condition and have an appreciation for the human condition as well as understanding medicine. >> by the way, did you read the audio book? >> i read the first chapter. because i did not have time to do the whole book. the schedule i had at that particular juncture of when these things are done. so i read the first chapter. i read the chapter and i was very pleased to be asked to read the first chapter because that's the chapter that the mission is stated. >> who read the rest of it? >> ed herman who is superb. >> this is the last part of your book. other than the acknowledgments. you have a quote. as usual did the talking. her mind gal lopped along then there's an elips sis. i guess is it absiss? and reinforcements of courage

and life and enthusiasm still lay hidden inside that frail body. now why did you end the boat with that? >> because that's what the book's about. that life spirit, that curiosity, that love of the level that sometimes can be reached in art music ideas by some people if they really work at it. the quote that i feel sets the emblem for the book is the quote at the beginning from augusta san guns. >> the thought -- that's charles sum anywhere. >> i read it earlier at the very beginning i assume. this book is also --

>> it was another one of these people who wrote superbably who never went to school. >> let me read that >> for we constantly deal with practical problems, with moders, contractors, der ricks stonemen trucks rubish plasterers and what not else all the while trying to soar into the blue. >> yes. sculpturs are different from painters. painters work in the studio and essentially what they have is canvas and a palate and an easel and pabets and brushes. sculptors is more like a workshop. they've got people that make the molds, they've gt people who bring in the sacks of plaster. they've got as he says, i love the word rubish in there. there's junk around. and you have all this practical kind of necessities of the trade to deal with. as is true with everybody's

work. all the while trying to soar into the blue. to reach that level, that ah, there it is. that happens in painting, music, ore torey, and it happens for the audience when they hear it, when they listen to it. to rise beyond the limitations of mortality. and do something that will speak to the human heart with your fellow men and women but also to for generations to come. historians write history. biographers write biography. thank goodness. that's part of it. and by doing that they're

participating in history and biography. painters, sculptors are also writing history. you want to have a feeling about general sherman? go take a look at the statue of sherman on horseback at the entrance to central park at 59th and fifth avenue and look at his face. it's the face of a mad man. sherman is the one that says all war is moon shine and hell. he's looked into the face of hell. in his march from atlanta to the sea. he said it. but st. gaudance is saying it in form. not words. in three dimensional form in a way that you never forget once you know to look at that face. he's being led by victory. victory's a beautiful young

woman, goddess with wings. the model for that young woman was an african american he hadive and she's the goddess of victory. she's not -- she is not glowing with the joy of triumphs. she looks dazed. she looks in a trance of some kind. again, there's a mystery about it. now, that sculptur was created by a guy who was dealing with smept makers and rubish and trucks coming. he doesn't mean the kind of trucks we mean. his is something that you wheel something in. this huge statue working with heavy steel super structures inside the statue and iron taking it off to the bronze foundry to have it cast in bronze. shipping it over to america, shipping it up to the studio in new hampshire where it was all

guilded and then brought down. he had to deal with all kinds of complicated difficult practical problems and employees that numbered maybe as many as 15 at a time. all the time trying to soar into the blue. that's the human condition. >> dade mccullough author of the greater journey americans in paris. thank you for your time. we are out of time. >> oh, brian, thank you very much. what a joy.

>> memorial day on "washington journal," major general jeffery buchanan gives an update on iraq since the withdrawal of u.s. troops and the progress being made. then major general james mallory discusses u.s. efforts to train the afghan army and police forces. after that, center for american progress senior fellow brian katulis on current strategy in afghanistan. and finally fawn johnson talks about the trust fund and the role federal and state gas taxes play in funding. "washington journal" live monday at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> freelance video journalist

david axe was embedded with the u.s. army in afghanistan in march and april. he joined sufment and afghan troops south of kabul on patrols of local villages and a mission to clear roads of ieds. he also talked with commanders about security and the status of training of the army and police. the u.s. is scheduled to begin withdrawing troops from afghanistan in july. >> what the brigade is trying to do here is we have the area of operations three provinces. very critical areas around kabul to try to get expand the security bubble that i'm sure you've heard general petraeus talking about from kabul to make sure that security, governance, and development are increased and improved here in