appears to agree with the "new york times." >> we have to leave it there. sander levin of michigan, top member on the ways and means committee for the democrats, thanks for being on "newsmakers." >> thank you. glad to see you. >> we're back with our reporters, alberto sanchez of the "national journal" and ian swanson with "the hill." ian, let's just begin -- the congressman talked -- and we're talking on this friday afternoon -- he talked about a meeting that he and the democrats had with the president on thursday. and as they go forward with negotiations over what to do about raising the debt ceiling -- august 2nd is the deadline -- what did you hear from him? >> what i heard was a lot of confidence that democrats feel the president has his back on medicare and he will not agree to any benefit cuts with republicans. republicans say that they have to have that as part of the deal. they have a lot of leverage on

the president because he wants to see the debt ceiling raised. but representative levin sounded very confident that there is not going to be a deal that will disappoint he and other democrats. >> it sounds like they are making a stipulation there -- medicare benefits. does that mean something dealing with medicare is on the table? >> i would not rule it out. senator mcconnell has been very adamant that some kind of medicare reform should be part of the debt ceiling increase in order to receive his vote. his word carries a lot of weight within the caucus. i would not rule out some kind of medicare -- >> what could they do? >> senator levin -- congressman levin mentioned allowing medicare to negotiate with prescription drug providers as a group. according to some, that could save $100 billion over 10 years. >> and what about tax cuts? what did you hear, ian? >> this is not a huge surprise but he said he is very confident that the president will not agree to extend the bush era tax cuts for the wealthy again. levin and a lot of liberal

democrats were very disappointed when the president did this last december. that has created some tensions between the democrats in the house and the white house, because they do not always know the president has their back. he said that he is sure that obama is going to be reelected and he is sure that obama is not going to extend those tax breaks again when they run out at the end of next year. >> so what does this mean for the negotiations vice president biden is leading, the bipartisan group, as we approach august 2? >> they still have a lot of work to do in terms of what the deal is going to look like. they have to satisfy democrats who are opposing any type of reforms to medicare and would prefer to see tax loopholes closed as part of the deal, and republicans who run the house and have opposed tax increases and are looking for more spending cuts and more budget reforms going forward -- to lock those in. >> on this friday afternoon,

moody's is saying "what now" when it comes to the debt ceiling negotiations. >> they have about two months to get a deal. the bottom line is that nobody wants to see -- everyone wants to see the debt ceiling higher because no one wants to see what happens if you do not raise the debt ceiling. but everyone has to get political cover in the deal in the end. that means you've got to have something on medicare in that deal, so the republicans can go back and say, not only we get big spending cuts but we also did something for some of the long-term drivers of the deficit. but democrats have to get something, too, and that is going to put pressure for the gop to do something on taxes. >> but this possible downgrade of our debt, what is moody's really saying? >> unless there is a deal to raise the debt ceiling in the next few months, moody's would put our credit rating under review for a downgrade. that is pretty serious, given the fact that the u.s. credit rating has always been aaa. >> does this give more political capital to which

group? who has the upper hand in negotiation? >> both yesterday were underscoring their point of view using the moody's speech. >> so both sides are using it. >> and again, i do not think either side wants to see what happens if the debt ceiling does not get raised. there is a lot of pressure on republican leaders, maybe more so than obama, because i think they have been talking to wall street. they have been warning wall street of all the political happenings that are going on in washington. i am not sure some of their members really think that the debt ceiling has to be raised. so that's tough. they are the ones in the biggest pickle. >> ian swanson with "the hill" and alberto sanchez with the "national journal," thank you both. >> thanks. >> thanks. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> coming up, several programs on raising the u.s. debt limit starting with house for debate. then remarks from president obama and house democratic

leaders. later, statements from freshman house members. monday on c-span, our road to the white house coverage continues with former senator rick santorum as he made his official presidential campaign announcement. that is live from somerset, pa. at 11:00 a.m. here on c-span. >> the c-span networks -- providing coverage of politics, public affairs, nonfiction books, and american history. it is all available to you on television, radio, online, and on social media networking sites. view our content anytime at the c-span video library. we take you on the road with our digital content vehicle. it is washington your way. the c-span networks -- now available in more than 100 million homes, created by cable, provided as a public service. >> a bill that would you -- raise the u.s. debt limit by

$four point to a trillion failed on tuesday. 318 opposed. now look at house debate on the issue. this is about an hour. >> the president ignored the advice and provided no plan to rein in deficits and debt. last month, standard and poured down credit the outlook for the u.s. credit rating because washington appeared to have no plan to rein in a budget deficit and debt. in recent weeks, many congressional democrats were preparing the right when over 100 of them called for an

unconditional increase in the u.s. debt limit. they signed a letter calling on their colleagues to establish " the democratic position" in favor of a clean extension of the debt ceiling, something that secretary geithner has also repeatedly called for. it is time to come clean with the american people about our deficits and debt. at over $14 trillion, our debt is as large as the entire u.s. economy and is putting the american dream at risk for future generations. it is become an anchor when the unemployment rate has out been this high for this long since the great depression. erskine and balls who chaired the fiscal commission had said that the era of that denial is over. it does not appear that all of his democratic colleagues have gotten the message, with this but the house with a clear to the indigent -- to the american people and the credit rating agencies that business as usual

in washington is over. so was washington's out of control spending. today we are making clear that republicans will not accept an increase in our nation's debt limit without substantial spending cuts and real budgetary reform. this vote, a vote based on legislation i have introduced, will and must fail. most members are not happy when they bring a bill to the floor and it fails. i considered defeating an unconditional increase to be some success. it sends a clear and critical message that the congress has finally recognized we must immediately begin to rein in america's affection for deficit spending. research by international experts clearly demonstrates that spending reform, not taxer increases, are the most effective path to fiscal consolidation. that means that together we must look for a possible ways to tackle our runaway spending. the difficult, and not always popular, it requires us to deal

with entitlement reforms, the largest drivers of america's deficits, including health care spending programs like medicare. we all know that failing to act and address our debt head-on would be very similar to defaulting on our debt. in both cases we will experience a significant downgrade in our credit rating, increasing interest payments, making cars and harm loans more expensive. it would increase the cost of imports. it would make an already shaky economy even worse, leading to less job creation. the greatest threat to the u.s. economy and the international financial market would be simply increasing the debt limit without cutting a penny of spending. this of but makes clear that deficit reduction will be part of any bill to increase the debt limit and is a necessary part of this process. no vote will put us on a path to what the american people are demanding, and america that a strong, reliable, and secure for

financial investments in the future. i urge all my colleagues to vote no and i reserve the balance of my time -- and the gentleman from michigan reserves. mr. levin is recognize. >> i recognize myself for one minute. >> the gentleman is recognized for one minute. >> bringing up this bill in this fashion is so egregious, the republicans have spent the last week pleading with wall street not to take it seriously. if republicans were being truthful, that would make they are looking for political cover. but in doing so, they risk blowing a hole in our nation's economy. they have acknowledged that their timing is an effort to change the subject less than a week after their plan to end medicare was dealt a major setback by the voters in the new york special election whose democratic winner will be sworn in tomorrow.

to act in good faith, to solve our nation's fiscal problems, for a public and should focus not on this ploy but on the budget negotiations being led by the vice-president. our nation's debt is indeed a problem that requires serious solutions, not ploy's their risk another global financial crisis. i reserve the balance of my time. >> the gentleman reserves is time for the gentleman from michigan, mr. kemp, is recognized. >> at this time i reserve. a the jump on reserves. mr. levin is recognized. >> i yield to a member of our committee a minute and have. >> that gentleman is recognized for one minute 30 seconds. >> thank you, mr. speaker. we better not forget how we got here in the first place. the president, when he raised

his hand on january, 2009, inherited a $10.6 trillion debt. let us not forget history. this is like a kabuki dance today. you are not only not sincere about this, but this is all process. the american people, but folks in my district are not interested in process. they are interested in results. what are the results? how does the house -- how does this help the guy and out on main street? that is what we should talk about. this bill is going to fail. you've been telling your wall street friends, do not take it serious. it is like a reality show. the republicans have warned their wall street friends, and the "wall street journal" said today, this is a joke. but as an poker, they are not all in. alexander hamilton understood

that good credit is in a trickle to being a world power. it is by no means a joke. the year to act will have immediate and dire consequences. -- failure to act will have immediate and dire consequences. when this legislation goes down in a few hours, the majority is ready to risk all that is in order to play political games to force their failed economic policies. it did not work and a lasting years and it is not going to work now. >> that cinemas time is expired. >> thank you, mr. speaker. >> mr. levin reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. kemp, is recognize. >> i continue to reserve. >> mr. levin is recognized. >> i yield to the ranking member of the ways and means committee. >> the gentleman from oregon is

recognized for a minute and a half. >> thank you, mr. speaker. there is no more important agenda item currently facing congress and injuring america pays its bills and honors its obligations. the cumulative choices of congresses and administration's past and present have created the debt and the need to honor the obligations. like an unfunded war in iraq that is going to cost trillions of dollars or and on funded medicare prescription drug program from our republican friends. we're not going to default on our debt. with over 100 of my colleagues, i called for a clean extension and offered to work with the republican leadership said they would not be held hostage to the most extreme members of their party in order to push through draconian proposals that have no chance of being passed, which

would unsettle the markets and do damage to things that americans care about. like the reckless proposal for medicaid. and additional tax cuts that are unaffordable. unfortunately the republican leadership decided not to treat them seriously. they are bringing a bill to the floor, they are not supporting it, that put it on the suspension calendar so it had no chance of passing, and they think somehow this is constructed. well, it is not. mr. speaker, it is time for us to be serious, to avoid taking legislative hostages. maybe the chamber of commerce thinks that wall street is in on the joke that is represented by their legislative efforts here today, but am not sure the american people is. it is time to stop the game. >> the gentleman's time is expired. mr. levin reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, is recognized pigeon in

high yield myself such time as i may consume. i would say that during the eight years of the bush administration, the debt limit was raised seven times for a total of trade ins. according to the cbo, a nonpartisan cbo, the score president obama fiscal year 2012 budget limit, the budget -- that they limit would have to be raised. president obama would raise the debt limit at twice the pace that president bush did. i reserve the balance of my time. >> mr. kamp reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. levin, is recognized. and i will take 10 seconds. i think mr. camp did not downgrade -- i do not think that is accurate. i yield a man and a half to the distinguished members of the ways and means committee, mr. rangel. >> the gentleman is recognized

for a minute and have. >> for those of us who are members of congress within the beltway understand that this is a political thing going on, one of the most serious financial times and i nation facing. i only wonder whether or not our friends and creditors abroad or those they respect the united states are trying that follow our fiscal ways and thinking that this is the strongest country in the entire world. offer them to follow what we are doing, it is an embarrassment to the house as well as the senate that the president of united states of america would ask that our country be safe from a fiscal point of view by lawson -- allowing the traditional increase in the debt ceiling. notwithstanding the political differences we have, we come together as a nation, not to

play games on its other for political reasons, but we come together as a symbol for the pre-world to understand that it is the united states of america, and you can depend on us. and now on the suspension calendar, which is an insult to those people who study the constitution and the house of representatives, which is for non-controversial issues, when all the world knows that this is controversial, but it is not the subject that should meet on the suspension calendar. so we still have some time to rehabilitate ourselves. i do not how much more ridiculous we can get. i do hope -- >> the gentleman from new york's time has expired. the gentleman from michigan, mr. kemp, is recognized.

>> i yield two minutes to the distinguished members of the ways and means committee, mr. brady from texas. the gentleman from texas is recognized for two minutes. and mr. speaker, members, america is undergoing a terribly subpar recovery, one of the worst we have seen, three times worse than under president reagan, all worse recovery that even what president obama promised us when he spent all those hundreds of billions of dollars of stimulus money. 13 million americans out of work, and unemployment rate sky- high, and we have fewer people working in the work force and we have had for the quarter of the century. one of the strongest signals we can send to consumers and families into business is to restore their confidence is to make sure they understand america is going to get its financial house in order. republicans in congress will send a statement today that america will get its house in

order. this vote today basically says we are not going to grant the president unconditional increases and how much america can borrow. here is a good reason why. we took a look at who ran up the debt for america over the years. this chart shows we've basically said, who control the purse strings? congress. we looked at all the debt incurred since world war ii, and that debt held by the public, that is by people, countries like china,, 90% of the debt run up since world war double to has been run up by democrats pretend% by republicans. we are committed to lowering this and getting control spending. but there's a special obligation by hard democrat friends and the president to get the spending under control. to put discipline on the size of the government, to restore

financial soundness and cut up the credit card. that is what republicans are committed to do. that is what americans told us we need to do as a nation. that is why a no vote on this unconditional that increase is the right vote, not just for the country, but for our future. i yelled back -- and the gentleman from texas yields back this time. the tournament from michigan, mr. levin, is recognize. >> as much time on inside chris margin that gentleman from michigan, mr. levin, has 14.5 minutes. >> we have 14.5 minutes? >> correct. >> i yield 3 minutes to the gentleman from maryland, the ranking member on wayand the committee. >> i thank my colleagues. ladenism gentleman this is a

political stunt. i just our friend on texas say that republicans wanted to tear up the credit card. it was a few weeks ago when the republican budget passed this house, all but four republican voted on a paired lemme show you what that happened to our credit card. we are at $14.3 chair yen in debt. this takes us up toward $24 trillion in debt. that increase by passing the republican budget. clearly this is not about tearing up the credit card. what is this about? this is about threatening to default on the full faith and credit of the united states unless we put into place the republican budget, including their plan to it and the the medicare disparity and to slash medicare benefits.

that is what this is all about. they said, we're going to hold this whole thing up until we get our way. let me tell you what their way would do to seniors and we have said before on the for the house. it means that seniors will be paying thousands and thousands of dollars more for medicare or getting their benefits shall last, beginning in 2002, and it gets worse and worse. by that year 2030, you're talking about seniors having to pay $12,000 more for their medicare because the support they are getting is going down of the cost in the private market, which the republican plan forces them to go into, go up and up and up. all the costs go up, they help they get under medicare goes down and they are left holding the bag. in connection with this debt ceiling debate, to hear these republicans propose that do not worry about it.

we will pay china, we will pay our overseas foreign creditors on their bonds, we will take care of them. but guess what? we do not have to pay our full faith and credit and obligations to america's seniors. we do not have to pay medicare. we do not have to pay social security. pay off the bondholders, take care of them. but let's follow through on this plan to decimate medicare. at the end of the day, that is what this is all about. we all understand that we have to get the deficit under control. we're having negotiations with the vice-president to come up with the responsible plan. you are trying to force the republican plan, which newt gingrich acknowledge was republican social engineering until it was bludgeoned by the right wing to withdraw his statement. he was calling the shots.

this is not such a good idea. what is really outrageous about this trade is you are now threatening the entire u.s. economy in order to get your way on a radical, right-wing medicare plan. >> that gentleman reserves. the gentleman from michigan is recognized. >> i yield the men have to a distinguished member of the ways and means committee, the gentlewoman from tennessee, ms. black. >> she is recognized for a minute and a half. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i came to washington because i knew that we had a debt problem. once i got here, and i started getting all the facts, i realize that we did not have a debt problem. we have a debt crisis. we are $14.2 trillion in debt and that number is even hard to comprehend, it is so large. over and over we hear from

economists, but conservatives and liberals, that we have less than five years to turn things around or the united states will sink under all of this debt. we've seen what has happened in greece and ireland, and i reject that future for the united states. the time is now to fix it. we are out of time and we have an opportunity to do things for the good the way the washington is spending. but it doesn't seem the other end of pennsylvania avenue thinks that we should change everything. they are happy to keep kicking the can down the road. but the road has run out. and that to the administration and over 100 democrats in this congress want a straight up and down vote on the debt ceiling. that is what we are going to get today. and with this measure to raise the debt limit fails on the house floor tonight, we will be sending the message loud and clear, you will not -- when you will not get another blank check

from us, mr. president. that is because i and 87 of my colleagues were sent here with strict marching orders to change the borrow and spend cycle that was bringing our country down. and the people back home can see that we listen to them. >> i yield an additional 30 seconds. >> and now we are acting for them. the american people reject the idea of a clean debt limit but, and so will the house tonight. enough is enough. the gig is up, mr. president. now is the time to get serious. get serious about ending this debt. get serious about ending washington's spending addiction. and get serious about getting this country back on track. i yield back the remainder of my time -- and that gentleman yields backer time. members are advised to address their comments to the chair and not to each other. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, reserves. but the gentleman from michigan,

mr. levin, is recognized -- and what is the times? >> both sides have 11.5 minutes remaining. >> i now deal to a member of the leadership and to a member of the ways and means committee, mr. bocerra. >> the gentleman from california is recognized for a minute and have. >> thank you for yielding. the last thing that we need right now is for our republican colleagues to play russian roulette with the recovering economy by threatening to default on america's bills and triggering an escalation of interest rates and mortgage rates that will have repercussions on every single american family and certainly on every sector of our economy. that is what we have today. russians have presented -- republicans have presented a bill that they say they will vote against. this is costing tax payer money because we have to pay for the lights, for the printing, for

all the members of congress and our staff working. we have to pay for this so we can send a message that we're going to vote no. "in your times" tells us that the republican leaders have "try to reassure wall street executives that this vote is a show." furthermore, they cite an executive from the u.s. chamber of commerce telling us that " wall street is in on the joke." the reality is that what our colleagues on the republican side are trying to do is furiously try to deflect public attention from what they recklessly try to do to medicare by ending at. because that is in their proposal, in their budget. they're doing everything they can to try to get people to stop focusing on the facts that seniors would have to pay for this debt by getting less when it comes to medicare, and certainly every single american

agent seniority as well. mr. speaker, every family in america has the balance its checkbook. they have to do so responsibly but they have to pay the mortgage, pay the credit card bills. jindal thomas time is expired. >> i urge my colleagues to vote no on this resolution. >> the gentleman from michigan, mr. levenson reserves. . mr. mp: before i yield to the gentleman from new mexico, i would just yield myself such time as i may consume and say that the medicare trustees have said that medicare goes broke in 2024. and so if you support an unconditional debt limit increase, as 100 democrats wrote to their leaders and ask be made a position of the democrat caucus, that does nothing about preserving and protecting medicare for the ture. so i wld say -- no, i will not yield. i will not yield. i control the time, mr. van

hollen. and so i would say that by supporting an unconditional increase in the debt limit, as more than 100 wrote in to their leaders, again, it does nothing to preserve for the future. at this time i yield to the gentleman from new mexico one minute. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new mexico, mr. pearce, is recognized for one minute. mr. pearce: i thank the gentleman for yielding. in my district people ask, what is this vote about, this debt ceiling vote? so i've created a simple chart that says it as plainly as we can. we're spending $3.5 trillion in the country each year and we're bringing in $.2 trillion. it doesn't work for your pamly. it doesn't work for your business, and the not working for the country. in order to make up the difference we have to borrow that money, except that our bankers are saying no more, just as your bankers are saying no more. so we're printing the money to make this system work. it's a scheme that's not working. this chart in the upper right-hand corner says that the whole economy collapses abo

2038. so o.m.b. and c.b.o. are saying that we must take care of the spending problem that we have in this country. that's what the debt ceiling is about. we have a law that says we can't borrow within a certain amount of money. if we just extend with know provisions with reform then we'll continue to spend this much money every year we don't have. so let's take care of the problems. let's do structural reforms in the way we're spending our money, let's do structural reforms in our budget. let's get it under control so we don't give our kids a faile economy. and i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. levin, is recognized. mr. levin: it's now my pleasure to yield a minute and a half to a member oour committee, mr. neal. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for one minute and a half. mr. neal: he said, let me tell you what this is about. i came from a memorial. 278 veterans.

i represent a veterans hospital. that's what this vote is about. the gentlelady from tennessee, i wish she was here on january 20 of 2001 when that political party spent their day and night saying, yes, mr. president, to george bush. they went along with everything he said. they never even bothered to read article 1 of th constitution. this vote is about one and one thing only. paying your bills. they ran up the debt and now they don't want to pay their bills. january 19, 2001, bill clinton said goodbye to the country. a $5.7 trillion surplus onhand. $2.3 trillion in tax cuts, a war in iraq over weapons of mass destruction, a drug prescription benefit called part d, and they're talking about who owes the bill. this is about responsibility. this is about those v.a. centers.

this is about their men's and women in iraq that needs to be equipped with the best possible weaponry. this is about paying the credit card bill that has come in for what they did for all of those years. i would debate any member of the republican party, you choose the forum. in the house and the senate. and we'll go through what those eight years were about. count me in. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from michigan, mr. levin, reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, is recognized. mr. camp: well, thank you. i'm certainly concerned about the last eight years but i'm more concerned about the last two. i think we have the third year in a row of trillion-dollar deficit. i'd like to introduce in the record the standard & poor's report on the united states debt. and quote from that report. and without objection. the speaker pro tempore: without objection, so ordered. mr. camp: because, and i quote, a very large budget deficit and rising government indebtedness in the past to addressing these

is not clear. we've vised our outlook on the long-term rating from negative to stable, end quote. the path to addressing these is not clear. . we think it's essential we don't have an increase, that we have the structural reforms we soesperately need in this country. we have 110 members of the other party wrote a letter saying we want an unconditional increase in the debt. just keep spending. don't bring any spending reductions or long-term reforms, keep going the way we've been going. ed is and poors says if we don't -- standard & poor's says if we don't address this issue -- what does it mean? it means buying a car or house is more expensive. certainly our ability to sell our bonds around the world will be very difficult to do and make that much more expensive. a downgrade in our debt limit would havehe same impact as not increasing the debt limit at all, financial markets would

be disrupted, borrowing costs would skyrocket, the dollar would plunge, driving up the costs of imports like gasoline and causing higher inflation and would wreak voc on our economy. i reserve the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, reserves, the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, is recognized. mr. levin: i yield myself five seconds. mr. camp, you were the ones that said just keep spending. we don't say that. i now yield 1 1/2 minutes to the gentleman from texas, mr. doggett. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from texas, mr. doggett, is recognized for a minute and a half. mr. doggett: today's vote represents just one more step in the republican effort to dismantle medicare. this condrived procedure demanding an extraordinary 2/3 vote right after the republican majority announces they won't vote for it is just a gimmick. you don't have to be much of a math whiz to know if you don't have half the votes in this body you probably are not going to get 2/3 of the vote. but it's not about the vote. it's about republicans who are

withholding their support of an eventual necessary increase in the limit by demanding that any agreement on that include a weakening of medicare by imposing something like the ryan republican medicare voucher plan that they all voted for, or some other scheme to just let medicare wither on the vine. republicans are willing to jeopardize the full faith and credit of the united states of america, exposing us to great potential economic harm. they think the president wl once again yield to their ransom, as he did last december, by yielding on more tax breaks for billionaires. don't yield to this maneuver, mr. president, say no to gimmicks and say yes to medicare, one of the best programs ever initiated by this congress to assure a little retirement security. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back his time. the chair would remind all members to address their remarks to the chair and not to the other party in the second person.

the gentleman from michigan, mr. levin, reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, is recognized. mr. camp: i yield two minutes to the gentleman from louisiana. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for two minutes. >> i thank the gentleman for yielding. we're not talking about what the other side would contend as a joke. this is a serious issue and rise in opposition to an increase in the debt sealing that would give the president another couple trillion to keep spending the way they have the last two years. mr. scalise: i think the americans realize that wild spending spree the president has been on the last two years has to come to an end and will have to come on the house floor where we'll invoke fiscal discipline. the other members want a clean vote and want another $2 trillion to keep spending, money we don't have. in fact, if you look at their plan, their plan not only will uble the national debt in five years, which i guess they're ok with, but also

allows medicare to go corrupt -- bankrupt. we're not going to sit by and let medicare go bankrupt or let them keep spending money we don't have. we're going to say enough is enough. we'll put spending controls in place and frankly would be irresponsible to increase the debt ceiling without reforms that actuallstart cutting spending and putting our country back on a path to a balanced budget. now, there may be some on the other side who don't want to see us get to a balanced budget which is why they dramatically increased spending over the last four years up until when speaker pelosi was fired. but frankly, the american people said enough is enough, stop the spending binge. enough of giving the president this uncontrolled e of the american credit card. let's start reigning in spending. let's put those controls in place. let's get this country back on a path of fiscal sanity so we don't have groups like s&p saying they'll downgrade the bond rating of the united states. and maybe the gentleman on the other side might want to and during your time you'll have an

opportunity to address that. >> i'd like to ask you a question. mr. scalise: we need to start installing fiscal discipline in this house and we're doing it now and it means no more blank checked and no more unbridled spending. the president will have an opportunity to join us in that debate but frankly it starts tonight and we're saying we're not going to keep giving the credit limit. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, is recognized. mr. levin: it's now my pleasure to yield to the whip, mr. hoyer from maryland, three minutes. mr. hoyer: i thank the gentleman for yielding, unfortunately, this is a serious issue on which serious time has not been allotted because you put this on suspension. this is a serious issue. our country is in crisis from a fiscal standpoint.

i wanted the gentleman to yield because i don't think he has any idea what the facts are. 89% increase in the debt under ronald reagan. he could have vetoed every one of those bills. under george bush, 115% increase in the debt. under bill clinton, less than 40%. ladies and gentlemen, this issue is an important issue that is being treated not as an adult. this is not the adult momt of which speaker boehner spoke. and you didn't mention that the budget you voted for, i presume, i'm not sure, increased the debt by $1.9 trillion between now and october 1 of this year. ladies and gentlemen, this is not an honest debate. th is not an hones proposal. this is a serious issue. tarp is a serious issue and the american public didn't want to see it passed.

and if not we would have gone in depression. who said that, george bush and benefit bernanke, the appointed head of the federal reserve. it was a tough vote. what do we do for america? we came together, republicans and democrats. more democrats supporting the president's request than his own party, to save america from depression. we need to deal with this issue, ladies and gentlemen of america, seriously. not in 20-minute debates on each side. not as a simplistic suggestion that somehow president obama caused this. $1.3 trillion in wars we haven't paid for, a drug prescription bill we haven't paid for, tax cuts thatyour party voted for, not mine, that we didn't pay for. should we have tax cuts? that's fine. but we ought to pay for them, not have my great grandson who was just born a week ago pay for it. that's what you're doing.

ladies and gentlemen, i'm going to vote no on this. we ought to vote for this. we ought to have a clean bill. and we oug to have both sides coming together and saying america needs this for debts that we have incurred. what i tell town meetings is like you go to macy's and take out your credit card and charge $200 worth of goods and then you go home that night, your husband or your wife and you sit down and say look, we've got too much debt, we needo have a debt limit, put a $100 debt limit on us and then macy's sends you a bill and you send back a letter and say no, i have a debt limit, $100. so you send them a check for $100 and they send back a letter saying hey, no more credit, and guess what, we're suing you. this debt limit extension is for what we have already incurred. this debt limit extension vote is about whether or not we're going to pay our bills. but i will tell you this, we'll see who votes for paying our

bills. mr. levin: i yield another 30 seconds. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for another 30 seconds. mr. hoyer: i want to see how many of your folks say yes, we need to pay our bills. america, we need to be a good debtor as well as a good creditor. we'll see how many of your folks vote. i've got just a sneaky suspension -- suspicion it won't be very many if any. it's a good demague vote, ladies and gentlemen. and if we vote for it, gss what? you're for raising the debt limit without any fiscal discipline. well, when we were in charge, when the president of the united states wouldn't let you do some of the things you wanted to do, bill clinton was there to veto things, we had a sulus for four years in a row and we didn't increase the debt limit once. under george bush increased it seven times. i yield back the balance of my time and urge a no vote on this irresponsible piece of legislation that should have been handled.

>> real order, mr. speaker. the speaker o tempore: the gentleman from michigan, mr. levin, reserves, the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, is recognized. mr. camp: thank you, mr. speaker. 114 members of the other party signed a letter to the leader who just spoke and asked for an unconditional increase in the debt limit. i know that's not maybe a fact they want to acknowledge now, but it is so important that we have a clear path for it on given what the rating agencies are saying about our debt. they're saying it's not clr how we're going to deal with our indebtedness. it's so important that we set forward that when we address this issue, there is going to be the kind of spending reductions and structural reforms we need. that is going to have to be part of this discussion. we can't continue to have it clouded with this idea that we might have a debt limit increase without any of those. that's why it is so imptant to send this very strong signal today. i hope all of the members of

your party join me in voting no on this bill. and at this time i yield one minute to the distinguished gentleman from michigan. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for one minute. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i appreciate the gentleman for yielding me this moment to address the american people and the students who may be watching are in the gallery. once again you see the problem we have in washington. we cannot have a fact-based conversation with the american people which they desperately want. i talk to a lot of students back at home and i say, how many of you will have a summer job? a lot of them raise their hands and say, ok, we'll say you'll make $220 a week, they've got a problem. they take your credit card and say you're going to spend $370 a week. how long do you think you can do that as you're saving for college or that car or piece of computer equipment? can you do that all summer? the kid is looking at me says of course not, don't be dumb. you can't do that. then i say you know what, add

10 zeros to that and that's exactly at we're doing in the united states house of congress, at we've been doing repeatedly, both sides of the aisle with both administrations. it doesn't matter. we've got to get it under control. mr. huizenga: when you add those two zeros like my friend from new mexico was talking about, we take in $2.2 trillion a year and spend $3.7 trillion a year. it's time to tear up that credit card, mr. speaker. ank you. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. levin, is recognized. mr. levin: how much time is there from our minimum 20 minutes? how much time do we have? the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from michigan, mr. levin, has 3 1/2 minutes. mr. levin: i yield to -- the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, has 4 1/2 minutes. mr. levin: i reserve. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, is recognized.

mr. camp: at this time i yield two minutes to the distinguished member of the ways and means committee, the gentleman from north dakota. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman is recognized for two minutes. >> mr. speaker, every time i talk to north dakotans, washington is on an unsustainable path and it needs changed. out of control spending is unacceptable. mr. berg: our rising debt is unacceptable. and allowing this debt to grow without reform i unacceptable. this country borrows $4 billion a day. fixing this mess will require real reforms. it requires a serious, honest conversation about where this country stands today and how we want to leave this country for the next generation. it's irresponsible to leave our

children with a nation that has a mountain of debt. it's unacceptable to increase our debt without making any attempt to reduce it. we cannot expect to do the se thing -- we cannot do the same thing over and over and expect different results. i've heard the north dakota people. and i will not support any debt limit increase that does not contain significant cuts and budgetary reforms. it's time to stop the reckless spending. it's time to reduce the size of government. it's time to enact policies th will put america back on track. thank you and i yield the remainder of my time. . the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from north dakota yields back the remainder of his time. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, reserves.

the gentleman from michigan, mr. levin, is recognized. mr. levin: i yield a minute and a half to the gentleman from vermont, mr. walsh. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlen from vermont is recognized for a minute and a half. mr. wal -- one, we must pay our bills. whether those were incurred for wars, whether it's for a prescription drug program that you were for or against, bail incurred. an obligation incurred is an obligation that must be paid. that is the fundamental responsibility that i acknowledge as the citizen that i acknowledge as an american, that i acknowledge as a congressman. this question of a long-term deficit reduction plan, we need it. you are right. we understand that. where is it? you have the opportunity in this legislation to present your plan that will get us on a

glide path to fiscal balance. it's not here. suggesting either you don't have a plan or the plan you've wanted -- present does not have the support of the american people. we are playing russian roulette with a loaded gun in the american economy, and the deficit clock is ticking. this requires a substantial response. the approach taken, a suspension vote trivializes our short-term obligation to pay our bills and a long-term obligation to have a long-term deficit reduction plan. this bill being sponsored by folks who were agast what they propose and then making phone calls to wall street saying they were for is washington business as usual that people are tired of and not solving our problems. the default clock is ticking. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from vermont yields back. the gentleman from michigan,

mr. levin, reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, is recognized. mr. camp: i reserve. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman reserves the balance of his time. the gentleman from michigan, in levin, is recognized. mr. levin: i want to be sure of the time. we have two minutes, do we have? the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from michigan has two minutes. mr. levin: and the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp -- the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, has three minutes. mr. levin: i'd ask mr. camp, do you have other speakers? mr. camp: not at this time. mr. levin: i now yield one minute to the gentleman from new jersey, mr. andrews. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman from new jersey is recognized for one minute. mr. andrews: i ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. andrews: mr. speaker, if the treasury had a dollar for every time someone says they want to cut the deficit we wouldn't have one. so let's stop talking about cutting the deficit and talk about how we can cut the deficit. let's let medicare negotiate the price of prescription drugs rather than pay whatever the drug companies demand and save $300illion over 10 years.

let's stop occupying iraq and afghanistan and paying their bills to t tune of $110 billion a year and bring the troops home. let's stop giving $80 billion in tax breaks to the oil companies that made record profits last year. let's require people making over $1 million a year to pay just a little bit more to help reduce this problem. and let's have sensible reductions in other departments of government. this is not a time for us to provide cover to a political party. it's a time for us to cover the obligations to our seniors, not by abolishing medicare but by improving it, to cover obgations to our veterans and cover obligations to the country. we will come back in a couple weeks and do what we should be doing tonight which is to raise the debt ceiling and protect our country. i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from michigan,

mr. levin, reserves. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, is recognized. mr. camp: mr. speaker, i have no further speakers. i will just reserve and close. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman reserves. mr. levin: thank you, mr. camp. you are going to close. i now yield a final minute to our leader who will close on our behalf, ms. pelosi from the great state of california. the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman is recognized. ms. pelosi: thank you for your compliment to our great state of california. thank you, mr. speaker. mr. speaker, when i first heard that this legislation was coming to the floor i anticipated with some positive thought of, yes, this is the right thing to do. america must pay its bills. we know how to do that. we want to go forward assuring the american people that when we decide not to default on our debt that we are showing our strength even though it may be difficult for peop to support

that. then, i heard that it was going to come up like this on sunday. they saiit would be up on tuesday. the bill is predicated on a false premise. it says the congress signs that the president's budget proposed, budget of the united states government, fiscal year 2012, necessitates an increase in the staffary debt of $2.4 trillion. -- staff wear debt of $.4 trillion. that's not the case. the bill never passed the house and never passed the united states senate. what passed was a republican budget which gives tax breaks to big oip, sending jobs overseas, weakens the middle class and does not create jobs and in fact increases the deficit by $1.9 trillion. $1.9 trillion increases the deficit. so what are we doing here day in what are we doing?

the republicans have introduced a bill which have now resoundingly said they will oppose where is the good faith effort here? we are, i believe, in good faith effort, house and senate, democrats and republicans, with vice president biden, to find ways to make sure we don't find ourselves in this situation again. as a mother and grandmother i have absolutely no attention of passing any bills, personal or official, onto my children or grandchildren. and let me s the democrats know how to clean uphe debt. we've had to do it before. the reagan-bush debt that president clinton inherited, it was a massive debt and because we took the vote for the economic plan and -- in 1993. we were on a path to fiscal soundness. the last four years of the clinton administration was in balance or in surplus. i believe the democratic whip, mr. hoyer, addressed these

numbers earlier. i associate myself with his remarks and his passion on this subject. coming into the bush years, esident clinton put us on a path of $5.6 trillion, a trajectory of $5.6 trillion in surplus. one of the biggest turnarounds in fiscal -- the fiscal situatioin our country happened under presint bush. so all this talk about deficits and their immorality and the rest, i agree. but where was everybody when president bush was giving tax breaks to the wealthiest people in our country which did not create jobs, was giving away money to the pharmaceutical industry at the cost -- a tremendous cost to the deficit and not paying for the wars? again, we place our men and women in uniform in harm's way. they make us the home of the brave, the land of the free. we want them to have what they need. they want us to pay for it. we owe them an obligation to

build future worthy of their sacrifice, and that future does not contain unlimited growing debt. unlimited growing debt. never before in the history of our country have we lored taxes for the rich while we were at war. this is an all-time first. so here we are. we inherit this debt of the bush administration. that's why we're in the situation we're in. so as our colleagues try to characterize this as we're raising the debt limit so there can be more spending, no, we're not. we're avoiding default of the massive debt created during the bush administration. that's why we're here. so to predice this legislation, which i really -- coming out of last week thought something i would support. i'm incumbered legislation so we will pay our bills and not be a death beat nation. instead, -- and not be a deadbeat nation.

instead they predicate it on a false premise. the facts is these -- the republican budget did -- they just want to change the subject to medicare. they just want to change the subject to medicare. let's drop this the first day from memorial day. the facts are these -- in their budget, they abolish medicare. not only that, they make escription drugs more expensive for seniors. they eliminate prevention services for seniors which make them healthier and lower costs to us. they do all of this while also, where their children are concerned -- cutting education for their children, making college more expensive for nearly 10 million young adults. all of this, a travestyn

terms of the hopes and aspirations of middle-class, low-income families in our country. and then to add insult to that injury, they come in here with a bill that they have to bring up immediately so they can oppose it. well, even the chamber of commerce said we're all in on the joke. but it just isn't that funny if you're a struggling family in america who are struggling to keep your job, your home, try to send your child to college, have some confidence about your economic security. if you're a senior and you depend on medicare, to have it abolished hurts your economic as well as your health security. so this is about priorities. a budget should be a statement of our national values. what is important to us as a country, the education of our children, the respt of the dignified retirement for our

seniors, job creation that we have a moral obligation to create jobs so we can have jobs for our workers and they can have their better future as well as make our country more competitive. reducing the deficit. we've done it once, the democrats did. we can do it again. hopefully in a bipartisan way under the auspices that have been created for this purpose. we're right in the middle of it. we come in and say, ok, let's introduce a bill based on a false premise and then let's all oppose it. well, i'm glad you're opposing it because you're voting a false premise in this bill. but let'get serious. let's get serious about this. the american people are crying out for help. do you know that the tax cuts on which this deficit has grown, the tax cuts of the wealthy, did not create jobs? they increased the deficit. they did not create jobs. more jobs were created in the second year of the obama

administration in the private sector than in the eight years of the bush administration. so this talk that tax cuts or the high end are going to create jobs, it just didn't happen. so we want to talk about the past. we want know what we're going to do in the future, but it's important to learn from the past so we don't do it again so we're not in this situation again. so as i said, the thought of an unincurvered, if that would be the -- unincumbered, if that would be the bill before us, this bill isn't right and i'm glad that hopefully will have a big, strong vote against it. i want to commend my colleague, congressman welsh. he was -- in his letter, he did not demand anything. he's saying, let's getogether and talk about how we can have

a clean debt limit bill. why don't we follow his lead on that and get together and see how we can do this in a way that's clean and/or at the same time has a plan, a bipartisan plan to reduce the deficit so that we can do just that as we inease jobs and strengthen the middle class? that -- thank you, mr. welsh, for your leadership in that regard. i know it has been mischaracterized here, but i salute you for your leadership on that score. so, my colleagues, you vote the way you vote. but the fact is that what's happening on the floor is not serious. it's not serious. but the subject it addresses is serious. it's time fothis congress of the ited states to get serious about debt reduction, job creation and to stop this assault on medicare which is the basis for this legislation today. with that i yield back the balance of my time.

the speaker pro tempore: the gentlewoman from california, the minority leader, yields back her time. the gentleman from michigan, mr. levin, time has expired. the gentleman from michigan, mr. camp, is recogzed. mr. camp: thank you, mr. speaker. i yield back the balance of my time. the speaker pro tempore: without objection. mr. camp: mr. speaker, i ask unanimous consent that all members may have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and to include extraneous material on h.r. 1954. the speaker pro tempore: without objection, so ordered. mr. camp: mr. spear, last february when the president submitted his budget for 2012 he did not provide any plan for reining in deficits and debt. and the administration called for a clean increase in the debt limit or an increase in the debt limit that had -- that was unconditional, that had spending reductions or structural reforms to troy to address the problems we fac -- to atry to address the problems we face. and to increase the debt limit of about $2.4 trillion. 104 mocrats have asked for an

unconditional vote on the debt limit. and i would say that my colleagues on the other side have been very reminiscent about the bush years and i would just say that in four years the debt under the obama administration will exceed the bush administration in eight years. another way of putting it, the debt under this president is going up at twice the rate as it did under president bush. . i would just say it's important we send a clear signal, that there will not be an unconditional increase in the debt limit and we're serious about dressing our debt limits in the coury and we've seen the signals from the financial markets and heard what our constituents have said and it's very important we bring the kind of spending reductions and reforms that we need to this debate. i urge a no vote and i yield

the house returns for legislative session june 13 and the senate is back tomorrow and will take up the solicitor general nomination of the district of columbia. live coverage of the u.s. senate when members return always on c-span 2. house republicans met thursday with president obama at the white house to look for an agreement on a package of spending cuts. the negotiations were he led by vice president joe biden. following the meeting, president obama and house democratic leaders spoke with reporters. the deadline for an agreement on the debt ceiling august 2. their rashes are about 20 minutes.

their remarks are about 20 minutes.

good afternoon. we are pleased we had a productive meeting with the president of the united states and had an honest exchange of ideas and i think a very beneficial one. it demonstrated the determination that we all have to reduce the deficit while preserving medicare with no reduction in benefits would be what i would have said with strengthening middle class and making sure that what we do is balanced with fairness and opportunity and with creating jobs by making it an america. that was the special message of our democratic whip, mr. hoyer and i want to yield to him. thank you very much. we needed to address

bringing the debt down while at the same timing strengthening the security of the american people through making sure that medicare is strengthened and preserved for our seniors, and in addition to that, obviously, the american public was focused on jobs. we have a jobs agenda. we call it make it in america. not only make it in terms of succeeding but make it in terms of manufacturing and growing it and sending it around the world. america can compete with anybody in the world given the proper incentives and environment. we intend to work with the president to create that and to continue to create jobs for this economy, which will get back to work providing the jobs that our people need. i'm now pleased to yield to the assistant leader, jim clyburn. >> thank you, mr. whip. i was very pleased today to share with the president of the united states my feelings about the talks that we are having regarding

the biden group. i said to him, as i've said to many of you in the past, the atmosphere in the room is very cordial. i think we are making significant progress, and i do believe that the attitude is there among all of the members on both sides to get something done for the american people, and if you want to do it in such a way that we preserve the principles of our forefarthers -- for fatters that say we must observe medicare, protect medicaid, and have revenue raising that's fair and equitable, and with that i will yield to our chair, the chair of the caucus. ewe thank you, jim. the first member of our caucus to speak to the president was our newest member.

underscoring what is so vitally important to all americans, she said in her race, she reached out to republicans and independents who supported her in the ongoing protection of seniors by the preservation of medicare. she appealed to small businesses and the need for job creation, and underscored the importance of making it in america, something that resonates all across the station and clearly with our caucus as well. this was a great exchange with our president. we left united. we left together, and we intend to pursue these goals to make it in america by investing in manufacturing and to preserve medicare and to make sure in this discussion, as kathy said, that revenues are placed on the table in terms of balancing our budget.

i now yield to the vice chair. >> i think the president made two points very clear, in my mind. he said very clearly failure is not an option when it comes to america paying its bills, and secondly, he made it very clear that the middle class, seniors will not get stiff armed in these budget negotiations that we're engaged in right now. i believe that every single democrat in that room is ready to stand and fight with the president to make sure that the priorities of america are full filled. with that, let me yield to the ranking democrat on the budgets committee and one of the negotiators with the biden group. >> thank you, xavier. i thought it was a very good exchange of views with the president, as my colleagues have said. mr. clyburn and i congratulated the vice president on the tone of the talks, the vice president wasn't there but we let the president know we thought the vice president was conducting these discussions

in the right spirit, a very serious tone, and we laid out the principles with with which we have come to the table. number one is nothing that we do as we try to reduce the deficit in a predictable way should upset the fragile economy. we know that people are hurting out there, the american people are struggling with that fragile economy, and we need to make sure that we focus on jobs and nothing that we do should interfere with that. secondly, you need to have a balanced approach. you need to make sure as we put together a plan to reduce the deficit, we do not adopt the lopsided approach that the republicans did in their budget. what did they do? they essentially said we're going to terminate the medicare guarantee. we're going to slash medicare benefits. we're going to cut medicaid benefits that help seniors in nursing homes, while they allowed to stay in place big subsidies for the oil companies and while they have not asked the very

wealthiest americans to participate in addressing this issue, so we made it clear that we supported the president's approach that he laid out a number of weeks ago in saying that you need to take a balanced approach, yes, we need to come up with a plan today to reduce the deficit, but let's make sure we do it without hurting the economy, without hurting jobs, in fact, invest in the future and in a balanced way. >> how come there is not a detailed plan? >> the president has a budget he put forth but we only talked about the democratic budget that we took up a vote on in the house, and which is the basis on which mr. van hollen and mr. clyburn go to the bipartisan meetings. our members are encouraged and regularly talked to

about the bipartisan nature of the talks and about the good faith initiative that is being taken there, and that working together, if we are determined to reduce the deficit, we will, and we will have that message in a timely fashion so that we cannot default on our debt in a timely fashion and hopefully that will be soon, so, i want to yield to mr. van hollen but that is not the issue. the issue is how do we work together to reduce the deficit, to have fairness in our tax system, to preserve medicare, to create jobs, to make it in america, and i'm going to yield. >> the point of these meetings is that both parties come out and talk to the president and hope for that same position. >> well, in fact, as the vice president has said, as mr. clyburn and i have said, as our republican counterparts have said, we have made progress on some

important issues. have we engaged on the huge, what i refer to as the politically nuclear issues? no. but the reality is that you have to begin a walk with the first step, and we have made progress and we're going to have to find a way to address this issue going forward, but again, true to the principles that i just outlined, and that is why we're continuing at that effort and the president has put a proposal on the table. he did so a number of weeks ago when he laid out quite quite a clear proposal. >> i think mr. van hollen is correct. this is a thousand mile journey that we're on here, and we are taking some first steps, and i do believe that everybody will agree that if you cannot do anything, unless you create an atmosphere within which you can have productive talks.

that atmosphere has been created, and there have been productive talks. we are not where we want to be, and we will be some time getting there, but i would hope that by the time we all celebrate independence day, we will demonstrate that we have shown our patriotism to the american people in a very positive way. >> did stimulus downgrades come up in the discussion over the debt she'lling? >> it is interesting that we learned that when we came out, but it was interesting to some of us who were in new york a week and a half ago talking with the new york partnerships that the head of moody's at that time said to us, the head of moody's said to us at that time that the -- that they would probably not downgrade, so this ising interesting news today, but the fact is we cannot default. we all agree to that, and if the message that we have to send -- i think what was

interesting in the meeting something how our members came together around the idea that not defaulting on the debt was a pivotal moment to enable us to do deficit reduction in a real way, in a balanced way, and in a way that will give confidence to the markets as we do not default on our loans. >> are they linked? >> they are not necessarily linked but i agree that is a pivotal moment. that is a pivotal moment. >> i think all of us agree, every republican leader and every democratic leader agrees that defaulting on our debt is not an american value. americans believe in paying their bills. americans believe that we make a promise, and we borrow money and we make a promise, we're going to pay it back. we're going to pay it back. holding hostage the credit worthiness of the united states of america is not a worthy bargaining chip.

this week, the republicans, frankly, offered a debt extension, which they announced they offered to have it fail, and in fact, it failed, but i think we are prepared to work with the republicans in a bipartisan way to make sure that america a he credit worthiness is not put at risk. i think what moody's has done makes that even more clear that it needs to be an objective of us all, not just one party, not just the president, but all of us, republicans and democrats have a responsibility and i think the american public expects us to perform that responsibility. i welcome mr. boehner's comments that we ought to do it by the end of the month. you may recall that when we met with the president about two months ago, i indicated we ought to get it done by june 8. we're not going to get that done by june 8. that is, of course, mr. geithner said july 8 would be the deadline. we extended that because our cash flow has been a little better, to august 2, but if we're going to be

responsible people, if we're going to be, in speaker boehner's words, adults, we will come together and get this done. >> from moody's perspective, what would have changed from the conversation last week? >> i think that -- let me say this, not to speak to for the people who were at the meeting but what we learned on the trip there, if we were to default on our debt, which we had no intention of doing, it would really cause a real mess in the mortgage market, and that would have its own impact on our economy, so there was some other aspects of what would happen if there was a default that were discussed at those meetings and perhaps that had an impact on the decision. i don't know. you'd have to ask them, but i think it has to be clear we're not going to default. we're going to use this opportunity to take us on a path of deficit reduction. we have no intention of

passing our debt to our children and our grandchildren, and it is the fiscal soundness of our country is important to our economic growth, so creating jobs and growth will be one way to reduce the deficit. again, putting revenue on the table is another way to reduce the deficit and making the cuts that we need to make, which we are fullly prepared to do, and determined to do to reduce the deficit. >> can i reiterate, i share the leader's confidence, we're going to get this done. the markets ought to know we're going to get it done. i've told speaker boehner and leader cantor that i will work with them, that the leader will work with them in making sure that we get this done. we clearly have differences. we clearly are going to have some, i think, very serious negotiations that mr. van hollen and mr. clyburn have talked about. we're going to get this done. we're going to get this done

and work together. i believe them when they say default is not an option. it would have catastrophic consequences which we, i think as americans, will not let happen. >> thanks. on the jobs issue, we understand the president was dealing with issues of manufacturing, talking about pushing new manufacturing jobs. what is the formula as you all see fit to create new manufacturing jobs, because this is really not the new job of the new generation. we were told that it was science and technology and things of that nature. now you're going back and pushing manufacturing. what is the formula? >> well, they're not in opposition to each other. we're telling you about new technologies. when the president became president he put forth a budget that said he would reduce taxes, lower the deficit and create jobs around three principles -- investments in education and innovation which go together, investments in affordable quality healthcare to lower those costs and and to energy and the

green infrastructure of our country, and those investments in science and technology as well as tax credits and the rest, would be used to make us number one. the president said it best. we're going to out-educate, out-innovate and out-build. we're going to do it in a new way that creates new industries for our country to be competitive to be number one in the world, and he reiterated that today, so this is not a contradiction in terms. it's actually a reinforcement of the same message, and very important to it is all of these points to making it in america. >> the president tomorrow will be going to toledo and will be talking about the automobile industry, an extraordinary success over the last 18 months. when we invested in the automobile companies, to make sure they could have the opportunity to be successful. they are now creating jobs. we've saved upwards of a million jobs in the

automobile industry. we've saved an industry critical to our national security and we've saved jobs and opportunities for our people, so that was a specific example of the kinds of investments but we need to invest in education. we need to invest in infrastructure and we need to invest in innovation. the president has spoken of all of those in his state of the union and that's the kind of agenda we're going to be pursuing so that our people can, in fact, make it in america. >> are you telling us that the talks led by vice president will produce a budget by july 4? >> no, what i'm telling you -- i'm saying -- >> i wasn't saying that, either. >> no, that's not what i'm saying. we're going to get the budget debt limit resolved. i think people ought to have confidence in that, that the american people will know that their representatives, republican and democrat, will get that done. >> when can we expect progress? >> we're working on deficit reduction, and what is

necessary for us to be able to do in increasing the debt limit and the budget and all that stuff will be worked out by others once we get that frame done. let me say this about the jobs. one of the things that i thought was very important at this meeting today and something a lot of us have invested in and that is the president made it very clear that the secretary include and a few -- secretary chu and a few others have said to him that we can, in five to ten years, create an automobile that can get 300 miles to a gallon, because of what the technology with the electric cars. i drive a hybrid myself, so i can tell you that technology is working, but there is an age-old manufacturing concern that we talked about, and that is rebuilding our infrastructure. that doesn't require a whole lot of new technology. what that requires is for us to get roads and bridges

that are dree tear rating, rebuilt, and -- deteriorating rebuilt and we can do it in a tried and true way that has fundamentally sound manufacturing jobs involved. >> and the new green plan, that was part of it. >> that was part of it but a very small part of it. >> let me say this about the meeting and conclusion. we began the meeting by, i did, by thanking the president and joined by my colleagues, whose inspirational message in joplin, missouri, as we gather here across our country, people in the south still staggering from the natural disasters that came their way, missouri just devastating and now massachusetts today. we've had some older natural disasters that are not finished yet, be they in the gulf statess or in iowa, so we want, as we come together, we have to recognize that people in our country, in some parts of the country, are suffering

in an even greater way, and our hope is that as we help them and pray for them, that we can do so in a way that helps build their economy as well, to use the terrible experience as an opportunity to build their economies, whether we're talking about infrastructure or we're talking about the underlying manufacturing base of our country and the rest, these places are crying out for help. this is one way that we can help them, and yes, we started this in the recovery package, and there were magnificent things in there, but there was the prospect of more to come, because we went from people from survival to take them to success and now what the president is talking about is transformational, when we talk about being number one in the auto industry and these new technologies, but when you do that, you can only succeed if you do not cut these investments in science and technology and tax credits and the rest to encourage, incentivize the private sector to do its

job. this is a public-private partnership, more than a partnership, an encouragement to the private sector, so we're hopeful about the future. we're determined to work together, democrats and republicans, house and senate, white house and congress, to make sure that we remove all doubt that there is no default on the debt and how we go forward will send a message of confidence to the markets that we can have a budget arrangement that is balanced. again, while preserving medicare and social security payments. >> did the head of moody's tell you they wouldn't likely downgrade the ratings?

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> treasury secretary timothy geithner met with freshmen house members on raising the debt ceiling. following that, some spoke briefly to reporters. >> good evening. we're going to be brief. we have votes going on the floor right now. my name is austin scott and i'm president of the freshmen class. we have diane black and other elected leaders of class and i want to thank secretary geithner for coming and meeting with us, going through the situation.

we obviously have a very serious economic situation that we're in now and we're here to solve it, and so as far as we're concerned, every, you know, everything that we got in there from him is a step in the right direction that we're having open and honest dialogue, and how we move forward. >> one of the most important things that we heard in the room is that we're looking for an equilibrium that we're working for a plan that makes sense to both sides. from my perspective, one of the things we heard that i found to be concert something any conversation around a plan that includes tax increases in order to make this thing work.

>> i am from tennessee. i won a follow-up on what she just said. we ask specifically in the meeting what the president for a plan, for a specific plan that could be scored by cbo. if the republicans have put out

a plan. we know specifically what has been in that plan. it has been scored. it is hard to talk about what we are able to negotiate between the two but there is not a plan. i drafted a letter that we will send to the president and we will ask him specifically for a plan that can be scored by cbo and secondary to that, a plan that if by some chance that debt limit should not be solved by august 2, what is their next plan on handling that. ford? thank you. >> to you think you can do it by august 2? and what if you do not raise the debt ceiling by august 2 question margin that is not up to me whether we can get to

their. i was hoping that we would. this is a very serious issue for the country. if you do not have a plan, one side has a plan and the other side does not, you cannot talk about what you're going to be able to come to a consensus on. >> we have votes and we have to get to the floor. we're perfectly willing to stay here day and night to get the job done. thank you. he was very cordial. very nice. >> we are going to miss our vote. >> today, representative sander levin, the ranking democrat on the house ways and means committee talks about how house democrats will address u.s. debt and other economic issues. that is at 6:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span.

>> he was known in the day as czar reed. he regarded it as a fine complement. >> during his three terms as speaker of the house in the 1890's, republican thomas reed change the power structure of the house. >> he was impugned as a tyrant because the overturned a long standing custom in the house, the minority on equal parliamentary footing with the majority. tonight, james grant on his new biography of thomas reed, "mr. speaker." you can download this online at c-span.org. >> monday on c-span, our road to the white house coverage continues with former senator rick santorum as he makes his official campaign announcement. that is why from somerset at

11:00 a.m. eastern here on c- span. >> each year congress works to pass the 12 spending bills that funds the federal government for you can follow the progress with our comprehensive resource on congress, congressional, or -- if congressional car -- congressional chronicle. it is that c-span. >> president obama said friday that the big three automakers are now turning a profit and that an agreement has been made to sell the remaining stake of chrysler. he spoke to autoworkers at a chrysler plant in toledo, ohio. this is about 30 minutes. >> to introduce the president of united states, please welcome bill oakes field. [applause]

>> good afternoon. i have been a chrysler employer for 17 years. i'm a second generation worker. my monetary year after 30 years of service. -- my mom retired after 30 years of service. my husband chris works here and i have two beautiful general -- children. when chrysler announced the bankruptcy and close the doors, things did not look good. my family's future became uncertainty we rely on this company for our livelihood. many thoughts were running through my head. would we be able to keep our home and stay in toledo? what we have health care chris hart would we be able to send our children to college and give them a better future?

would we even get the opportunity to retire? the despair was overwhelming at times while we waited for some words of hope. after several months of uncertainty, the news came of government loans and a partnership that would give chrysler the opportunity to reorganize. since adopting fiat's world- class manufacturing principles, the hallowed for our future is much battle. but-better. i am proud to be part of this country that is in achieving so much and has shown the president that the chance he took on chrysler was a good one. if not for the president america's auto industry would have been at risk and good paying jobs would have been lost. we would not be here today without his commitment to protecting those things.

on behalf of the hard-working men and women here at toledo, it is my honor and privilege to welcome the one man who put his faith and belief in the autoworkers, our president, barack obama. [applause] >> thank you. thank you everybody. thank you. thank you. thank you, guys. thank you. thank you. thank you, everybody. thank you. thank you, everybody. everybody, please have a safe. please have a seat. it is good to be back in toledo. [applause]

it is good to be with all of you. now for those of you who i have met up close, i just want you to know that i stopped by rudy 's. [laughter] had two hot dogs, two chili dogs with onions. i've been looking for a mint backstage. it tasted pretty good going down though. it is wonderful to see you. we've got some outstanding public servants who are here who have been working hard on behalf of working americans their entire careers. one of the finest senators that i know of, senator sherrod brown, is in the house. [applause] congresswoman marcy kaptur is in the house. [applause] your mayor is in the house. give him a big round of applause. [applause]

i just took a short tour of the plants and watched some of you putting the finishing touches on the wrangler. now somebody reminded, i need to call at the iconic wrangler. [applause] and that is appropriate, when you think about what wrangler has always symbolized. it symbolized freedom, adventure, hitting the open road, never looking back. which is why malia and sasha will never buy one. [laughter] until maybe they are 35. i do not want any adventure for them. [laughter] i want to thank jill for the kind to deduction. somebody on my staff asked jill to describe herself in three

words or less, and she said hard working. hardworking. and her entire family agreed. so she is what the right team here at this plant because i know there are a lot of hard- working people here. and i am --i am proud of all of you. [applause] jill was born and raised right here in toledo. her mother retired from this plant. her stepfather retired from this plant. her uncle still works at this plant. she met her husband at this plant. now they have two children of their own, and her 3-year-old wants to work at this plant. [laughter] i do not think her story is unique. i am sure there are a lot of you who have similar stories of previous generations working for chrysler.

in this plant, or the earlier plant that used to -- that i guess is still right down the road, this is the economic rock of the community. you depend on it, and so do thousands of americans. the wrangler you build here directly supports 3000 other jobs. parts manufactured all across america. doors from michigan. axles from kentucky. tires from tennessee. and this plant indirectly supports hundreds of other jobs right here in toledo. after all, all without you, who inky's ort's or rudy's? or who would buy all those cold ones that zinger's? [laughter] this one right here?

that is the zinger crew right there. [laughter] all right. will life be like here in toledo if you did not make these cars? two years ago we came pretty close to finding out. we were still near the bottom of a vicious recession, the worst that we have seen in our lifetimes, and ultimately the recession cost 8 million jobs. and it hit this industry particularly hard. in the years before i took office, this industry lost more than 400,000 jobs. in the span of a few months, one in five american autoworkers got a pink slip. two great american companies, chrysler and gm, stood on the brink of liquidation.

we had a few options. we could get all the status quo and kept the automakers on life support by just giving them tens of billions of dollars of taxpayer money, but never dealing with the structural issues at these plants. that would just kicked the problem down the road. we could've done what a lot of folks in washington thought we should do, and that is nothing. we couldn't just let u.s. automakers -- we could have just let u.s. automakers go into an uncontrolled freefall. and now would have triggered a cascade of damage all across the country. if we let chrysler and gm fail, plants like this would shut down, and dealers and suppliers across the country would have shriveled up, and then ford and other automakers could have failed, because they would not have had the suppliers that they needed. and by the time dominos stopped falling, more than 1 million jobs, and countless

communities, and a proud industry that helped build america's middle class for generations would not have been around anymore. so in the middle of a deep recession, that would have been a brutal and irreversible shock to the entire economy and to the future of millions of america. so we refused to let that happen. i did not run for president to get into the auto business. i have got more than enough to do. i ran for president because too many americans felt their dreams slipping away from them. that core idea of america, that if you work hard, if you do right, if you are responsible, that you can lead a better life -- a better life and more importantly pass on a better life to your kids -- that american dream felt like it was getting further and further out of reach. folks were working harder for less. wages were flat while the cost of everything from health care to groceries kept on going up. and as if things were not hard

enough, the bottom fell out of the economy in the closing weeks of that campaign back in 2008, so life got that much harder. so i want everyone to understand our task is not just been to recover from the recession. our task has been to rebuild the future on a stronger foundation than we had before to make sure that you can see your incomes and your savings rise again. and you can retire with security and respect again. and you can open doors of opportunity for your kids again. and we can live out the american dream again. that is what we are fighting for. [applause] that is what we are fighting for. so that is what drives me every day as i step into the oval office. that is why we stood by the american auto industry. it was about you -- or families,

your jobs, your lives, your dreams -- making sure that we were doing everything possible to keep them within reach. so we decided to do more than just rescue the industry from crisis. we decided to retool it for a new age. we so that if everyone involved was willing to take the tough steps and make the painful sacrifices that were needed to become competitive, then we would invest in your future and the future of communities like toledo, that we would have your back. so i placed my bet on you. i put my faith in the american worker. and i will tell you what -- i am going to do that every day of the week, because what you have done vindicates my faith. today all three automakers are turning a profit but that has not happened since 2004. today all three auto makers are gaining market share.

that has not happened since 1995. and today, i am proud to announce the government has been completely repaid for the investments we made under my watch by chrysler because of the outstanding work that you guys did. because of you. that is right. chrysler has repaid every dime and more of what it owes the american taxpayer from the investment we made during my watch. and by the like, you guys repaid it six years ahead of schedule. [applause] and last night, we reached an

agreement to sell the government's remaining interest in the company. so soon, chrysler will be when under% in private hands. early. faster than anybody believed. [applause] so i could not be prouder of what you have done. and what is most important, all three american automakers are now adding shifts and creating jobs at the strongest rate since the 1990's. so far the auto industry has added 113,000 jobs over the past two years. in detroit, chrysler added a second shift at its jefferson north plant. gm is adding a third shift at its hamtramck plant for the first time ever. in indiana, chrysler is investing more than $1.3 billion in its kokomo facilities.

and across the country, gm plans to hire back every single one of its laid-off workers by the in -- by the end of the year, every single one. and that makes a difference for everyone who depends on this industry. companies like a small precision tooling manufacturer in vandergrift, pennsylvania, has brought back many of the employees that they had laid off two years ago. manufacturers from michigan to massachusetts are looking for new engineers to build advanced batteries for american-made electric cars. and obviously chat and inky and singer, they will have your business for some time to come, especially those guys over there. so this industry is back on his feet repaying its debt and gaining ground. we can once again say that the best cars in the world are built right here in the u.s. of a., right here in ohio, right here in the midwest.

[applause] and each day when you clock in, you are doing more than earning your pay by churning out cars. you are standing up for this company. you are sticking up for this way of life. you're scoring one from the home team and showing the world that american manufacturing and american industry is back. no i do not want to pretend like everything is solved. we have still got a long way to go not just in this industry, but in our economy, for all of our friends, all of our neighbors who are still feeling the sting of recession. there's nobody here who does not know someone who is looking for work and has not found something yet. even though the economy is growing, even though it has created more than 2 million jobs over the past 15 months, we

still face some tough times. we still face some challenges. this economy took a big hit. it is light if you had -- is like you had a bad illness. if you get hit by a truck, it is going to take a while for you to mend. and that is what has happened to our economy. it is taking a while to mend. and there are still some headwinds that are coming at us. lately it has been high gas prices that have caused a lot of hardship for a lot of working families. and then you have the economic disruptions following the tragedy in japan. you have the instability in the middle east, which makes folks uncertain. there are always going to be bumps on the road to recovery. we are going to pass through some rough terrain that england are wrangler would have a hard time with. we know that. >> no!

>> if or wrangler can go over anything? [laughter] but we know what has happened here. we know what is possible when we invest in what works. and just so if we have succeeded in retooling this industry for a new age, we have to rebuild this whole economy for a new age so that the middle-class does not just survive, but it also thrives. these are tight fiscal times. you guys have all heard about the deficit in the debt, and that demands that we spend wisely, cut everywhere that we can. we have got to live within our means. everybody has got to do their part. middle class workers like you, though, should not be bearing all the burden. you work too hard for someone to ask you to pay more so that somebody who is making millions or billions of dollars can pay less. that is not right. [applause]

and even though we are in tough times, there are still some things that we've got to keep on doing if we are going to win the future. we cannot just sit back and stop. we've got business we got to do. we've got to make sure that our schools are educating our kids so that they can succeed. i was looking at all the gadgets you got in this plant here, it is a lot more complicated working on a plant than it used to be. kids have to know math and science. we have to have a transportation and communications network that allows our businesses to compete. we used to have the best roads, the best bridges, the best airports. in a lot of places we do not have that anymore. if you go to china, beijing, that got fancier airport. you could europe, that got fancier trains, better roads.

we cannot let our infrastructure just crumble and fall apart. we are american. we have got to make that investment. [applause] we have to invest in innovation that will pave the way for future prosperity. we invented stuff that the world now uses and the world now makes. we've got to keep on inventing stuff and make sure it is made right here in america. and that requires investment. [applause] that requires investments in basic research and basic science. so these are all things that will help america out-innovate, out-educate, out-compete, out- hustle everybody else in the world. i want america to win the future, and i want our future to be big and optimistic, not small and fearful. so we've got a lot of hard work

that's left to do, ohio. we've got a lot of work to do. but we're going to get there. and it -- if anyone tells you otherwise, i want you to remember the improbable turnaround that has taken place here at chrysler. i want you to remember all those folks, all of those voices who were saying no, say no, we cannot. because toledo, you showed that this was a good investment, betting on america's workers. what we see here is a proud reminder that in difficult times, americans, they dig deep, they recapture the toughness that makes us who we are -- builders and doers who never stop imagining a better future. what i see here is a reminder of a character that makes us great, that we are a people who will forge a better future because that is what we did.

what i see here is an america that is resilience, an america that understands that when we come together, nothing can stop us. i tell you what. i am going to keep on betting on you. and as long as i continue to have the privilege of being the president of united states, i am going to keep fighting alongside you for a future that is brighter for this community, for toledo, for ohio, for america. thank you, god bless you, god bless the united states of america. thank you. ♪

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[applause] >> monday on c-span, for road to the white house coverage continues with former senator rick santorum as he makes his official presidential campaign announcement. that is applied from somerset at 11:00 a.m. eastern here on c- span. monday, live on c-span3, lieutenant william general caldwell on training afghan security forces as they prepared for the reduction of u.s. and nato troops. that is alive at 2:00 p.m.

eastern on c-span3. later monday afternoon, the french foreign minister talk about the political unrest in the arab world. in late may he called for wider u.s. involvement in libya to hasten the downfall of muammar gaddafi v. watch coverage at by p.m. eastern on c-span3. business owners and bankers testified on lending to small companies before a house small business committee. while some the testified that lending is too slow, others showed that statistics is actually up. you'll hear from entrepreneurs and investors, bankers, an economist. house small business committee chairman sam graves chairs the hearing. this was just an hour and a half. >> i call this hearing to order. i want to thank all of our witnesses for being here today. we look forward to hearing your testimony. i apologize for being late as we

had a book called. as america seeks to recover from this recession which has been a terrible blow to a lot of folks, we're going to are relying on the nation's small businesses to help lead the way. for small businesses to expand and create jobs, they need adequate financing. a small businesses are telling us that access to capital remains a hurdle in the current economy, despite rallies on wall street and government efforts to loosen credit. on the other side of the equation are lenders who say that they have capital available, but businesses are not as credit worthy as they were just a few years ago. banks claim that today's borrowers have lower credit scores and lower collateral values due to depressed real estate values. we want to grow businesses and create jobs, we have to bridge the gap between lenders and small business borrowers. we call this hearing today to examine the challenges that both small businesses and banks are

facing when deciding to expand or lend money. we will examine alternative kinds of financing and the avenues available to get the capital that they need. i am very pleased have several distinguished witnesses here today to provide members of this committee with insight about the importance of capital for small businesses and the impediments leading -- to lending that banks are experiencing. i think this is going to be a very hearing, very timely. with that i will yield to the ranking member for her opening statement. >> thank you, mr. chairman. job creation is understandably a top priority for all americans right now. the new numbers show that firms

cut their work forces this month. in order for small firms to play their traditional job creating role, several factors must be in place. perhaps the most important greek in is the availability of capital. if small businesses are truly the backbone of the economy, then capital is their lifeblood. all the challenges remain, there have been problems in this area. small business loan approvals and the first quarter of this fiscal year are up 60% over last year. you were small firms are falling behind or defaulting on loans, suggesting they aren't better shape to take on additional debt and hopefully expand. the other state are in better shape to take on additional debt and hopefully expand. during economic downturns, when credit is found elsewhere, the

sba role becomes more. for it several provisions this committee crafted in the recovery acts posted sba-backed lending, raising guarantees on the sba 7(a) loans gave banks stronger incentives to make loans. other provisions made the loans more affordable for borrowers. as of now those steps have demonstrated the most quantifiable, proven results in other recent policy actions have yet to exhibit the same level of success. examining the amount of sba lending is only one metric, and the agency must concentrate on the right kind of small businesses, namely, start-ups with the highest potential for job creation. on average, it cost nearly $75,000 to launch a new

enterprise. under even the best circumstances. unfortunately, this small startup are not seen their fair share of sba loans. during the first half of fiscal year 2011, less than one quarter of the sba loan dollars went to startups. it is my hope that today's discussion would generate new ideas about how congress, the sba, and the lending community can expand financing options. especially for those at the earliest stage of the business cycle. the committee should examine the full spectrum of options for small firms. some businesses will do fine for conventional loans. others can use my car financing. for start-ups, some solutions may not make sense at all.

investment capital might be a better solution. what works in ohio might not be a a program for family farm in tennessee, to say nothing of the technology startups in lower manhattan. on that note, i like to thank our witnesses for taking time out of their busy schedules to be with us. their diverse views and experiences will be valuable to the community as we consider how best to make capital available. >> thank you, ranking member read it in the other committee member has an opening statement, i'll ask you to submit it for the record. you will have five minutes. we will be lenient on that. but please try to stay within the five minute mark. our first witness today is william hall, the chief executive officer richard officer of william g. hall and

company. you have five locations in texas, i believe. he also serves on the border directors for the international franchise association and shares their credit access committee. we appreciate you being here. we look forward to your testimony -- thank you, chairman graves. i want to thank you as well as ranking member -- nydia velazquez. five minutes is hard for me to say hello but i will do my best. i'm a member of the international franchise direct -- association. a lot of talk about important role in the u.s. economy that franchising holds. ranking member velazquez mention that start-ups are important for our economy. franchising means that name but with a lifeline for the first role in the business. they too have a system of

training that allows someone to start up without being in business totally by themselves. the franchising world group had a faster pace up until 2008 when we had the financial meltdown. since then, recovery has been very slow. it is been very difficult to obtain any sort of financing. we greatly appreciate the work you did on the small business job act. it is something that we really appreciate. but currently, the net -- other than sba, there is very little lending for the entrepreneurs in franchising world. to survive, the franchising community has cut back. we have lived with what we had. we did not add new jobs, we did not remodeler we needed to, because we were caught in the situation where we could not borrow money. that was pretty much across the board. small to large, it impacted at

all sectors. we delayed the new store acquisition, they could not put new people into the units because they could not get the initial financing. people would pay the franchising field but not get the initial financing to get going. we think that create six out of 10 jobs in the country. if we do not have access to credit, then we are not creating the jobs that we need. we think there is a 20% shortfall in lending to franchise this year. the sba has been critical in telling the need but we're still going to be 20% to repair their are a lot of jobs they will not be created that could be if we have normal access to credit. franchising is all about small business. it sometimes gets confused when people talk about me, or even dairy queen. i started from nothing, had nothing, and most of the people i know started with one unit and grew from that. we are resilience as a group, we are diverse as a group, and the

franchising industry, 90 percent are owned by minorities, where in the non-franchising sector, there is 30% owned by minorities. we have a great program for veterans to come out on, they get a discounted startup opportunity for veterans. we feel like that has been a fantastic program, well received, a great opportunity. as i said in the franchising world, you are in business for yourself but by -- but not by yourself. that benefit puts us into a position where we can be of good borrower for these lenders they want to make loans, which they need to make loans to be successful. we thought how could we solve this problem without any help from anyone? we decided as a group to get together and from the french as in world and reached out to try to show them what we had to

offer. we knew that they needed to make loans. we think it is a better loan that a non-franchise loan for you have a system, training, support. the french resorbed does underwriting before you go to the lender, so there is some safety there. what we did is put together a credit summit began to gather all parties. i do not want to take the time to go through it, but i like to introduce the speech into the record which does describe the credit conference we had, bringing together people to come up with a solution, a private sector solution to the problem. as we go forward, we need help in this regard. we need to help our lender friends be able to be of the loan money to us. we will do our part. we are good loans. we're not looking for bad loan. they trying to get loans

will be paid back. but those markets are closed to us right now. without the sba lending right now, there would be a lot less people employed in the u.s.. with their help and your help to them, i know there will be a lot more jobs available. we are now looking for a bailout. we just need access to credit so that we can grow our businesses and provide more jobs. and i want to thank everyone for having us. thank you, mr. hall. our next witness is lynn ozer. she's the executive vice president of the small business and sba lending at susquehanna bank in to the venue. she is representing the national association where she is bird -- served on may courses 1988. i let ford to hearing what you have to say. -- i look forward to hearing to what you have to say.

all the members of the committee, as chairman graves mentioned, i am the exact a vice president of susquehanna bank, where i and manage sba and all government-guaranteed lending to allow our banks four state footprint for it is a state- chartered bank with -- which operates about 223 branches throughout the middle states. we are active in both sba and programs, currently holds of portfolio and government guaranteed loans. i'm also here representing more than 700 members of the national association of government guaranteed lenders, naggl, for the past 23 years. i have served on the board of directors. i've also served on their executive committee and is chair of the technical issues committee. naggl's lender members are responsible for 80% of the 7(a) volume as well as the most of

the lender portions of the 504 loans. thank you for inviting for me to testify and holding this hearing on the availability to access capital. in the interest of time, i'll submit my full written testimony for the record. i will provide a brief summary. i want to begin by publicly thanking the international franchise association, ifa, for taking a leading role in driving the discussion on a direct correlation between access to credit, job creation, and economic development. because of the exemplary effort naggl effort and ifa today, we have a 7(a) loan program that is much better able to meet the capital needs of america's small business. and it is important to note that the ifa work on this issue did not end with the passage of the small business job act. while working on credit access

issues on different tracks, naggl and ifa began a dialogue that we continue free for those encounters, we came to realize that there is a significant overlap in the issues affecting both organizations memberships. and each group has much to learn from each other. ifa and naggl have forced the partnership to increase the ability of -- the availability of capital to small businesses. a highlight of our efforts to address the credit issue was the credit summit that ifa organized and delivered in april. bill hall, chair of ifa credit committee, has described some of the things that ifa is doing. it is bringing attention to this important issue and ifa's continuing commitment to this effort. i want to do that for him and for them. i also want to specifically mentioned the simply leaders have shunned by ifa's ceo,

steve, who's worked tirelessly to highlight the important role that access to credit place in creating jobs and increasing economic output. the most important message that i can bring to the committee today is to reiterate what you already know. sba loans are critical to keeping small business segments of the economy, the biggest job creating segment, healthy. we are seeing signs of economic recovery but for variety of reasons, accessing capital continues to be difficult for small businesses. lenders want to be able to provide this necessary capital, but they are experiencing a perfect storm of circumstances that together serve as the stifle the conventional small business activity. lending activities. how are banks meeting the needs

of their small business customers? many are turning to sba loan programs and the ticket, to the sba 7(a) program. having a healthy 7(a) program is essential to keeping credit flowing, because sba is the single largest provider of long- term capital to the u.s. small businesses. its loans guarantees account for well over 40% of all long-term small business loans made in america. from the lender viewpoint, the benefit of the 7(a) program is that it takes less capital to support that loan than a conventional loan from a small business people, and allows increased access to capital, which appropriately matches the loan term to the lifetime of the assets being financed. according to the federal statistics, a typical 7(a) loan has an average maturity of 12 years, well conventional have

three years or less. the significant majority of those loans have maturities of one year or less free longer maturities allow small businesses to access capital that would not be available to them if repayment were required in substantially shorter periods. the importance of sba lending to small business clearly is illustrated by of demand for the program. the last few years, it is unable to lenders to provide $43 billion in loans to small businesses. but the successes of the 7(a) program is causing a new problem for based on the loan approvals to date, it appears highly likely that the program will exceed the 17 level. this means that it is likely that the 7(a) program will have to shut time sometime late this summer unless the congress acts to raise the program level. in order to avert this potential program suspension, naggl on behalf of its members is

requesting that congress to act now to increase this year's program levels for sba business loan programs to $19 billion bid this increase will not affect the budget, because appropriations are already available to him -- to support the increase. we know that small business leads the way to creating new jobs and we know that having a vibrant small business segment in our economy is a vital but continuing recovery that we need. we know that keeping sba 7(a) and 504 programs available to meet the capital needs of tens of thousands of creditworthy small businesses that now have nowhere else to turn is equally vital. do i still have time left? sorry. that wraps it up and i would be available to answer any questions. >> you will have more opportunity when we get the

question. i turn to you, ranking member velazquez, to introduce the next witness. >> he understands the economy were a problem. he currently focuses on behaviorism, economics. welcome. thank you,, and chairman graves. i am pleased to be here today. i am gallup s chief economist. my comments today are my own, not necessarily those of gallup. we had gallup are concerned

about the economy and our summarize my statement very quickly, but we interview 1000 americans every night, and we have done so since the beginning of january 2008. and we ask them various questions about the economy and then we'll look at those results and report of them on a weekly and monthly basis. then what our numbers show this is what you saw on some of the economic data today, the economy is softening. we have seen that for quite awhile. we think that by asking americans about how they feel about the economy, that we get some insight into where is headed. all the economic data that you're seeing today lags a little bit, we think that our numbers are being confirmed by what is happening now and we're certainly in a soft patch, particularly -- potentially in stagflation. consumer spending has not been

increasing, and at the same time, we see unemployment at very high levels. the number will come out friday, not sure what they will be, but gallup measures its own unemployment rate. our number for may is 9.2%. that is not seasonally adjusted. but when we look at underemployment, the people who are unemployed or people looking for work, the number goes up to 19.2%. and we think that people underestimate what the facts are on society and the economy of having one in five americans unemployed or underemployed. and in addition to the daily monitoring, we do something we called the wells fargo/gallup small business index. what we do is that we serve a small business owners across the country and ask them a variety of questions to measure small business environments. i've inserted a chart in my

testimony, but earlier this year, consumer confidence was up, and so a small business confidence. in our latest measure in april, small business confidence went down. we think that does not portend well, and with other measures in terms of the economy, overall. in terms of credit availability, as part of that in days, we measure and asked small-business owners what they think the credit is available to them as small business owners. in my testimony, i included a chart that shows about 30% of small-business owners say that it is difficult or very difficult to get credit right now. that number may seem small, but it is about three times what the difficulty of getting credit was raided by small business owners prior to the recession. in terms of getting whether

credit is easy to get, yet about 20% who say it is easy it. those are the stronger financially, but that number is down from over 50% prior to the recession. there is a slight improvement in credit availability for small businesses as has been mentioned by a lot of people, but it is far down from recession levels -- pre-recession levels. there are a couple of different things that are very important having to do with job creation and small business. i'll not go through that discussion in detail, except to say that we find that about 40% of small businesses tell us that they are hiring less people than they need. we think that if we can turn that around and actually get them to hire what they need, not necessarily to grow, there could be really an explosion in terms of jobs creation, that is unexpected by most economists. the way to do that effectively -- three areas that i mentioned that are not mentioned often, i

think, one has to do with education. i would be glad to discuss that. but there needs to be some type into education from our polling with small businesses. the housing and real estate area, which occurred more bad news about this week, another area of small businesses, and finally some of the energy problems. i would be glad to answer any questions. >> thank you, we will turn to representative landry for the tradition of our final number. >> if allied to it introduced bought copper to you all. mr. cutler is a two lane graduate -- mr. kottler is a tulan grad. a former executive at louisiana's iberiabank, he is vice-president near my home town. this may make him a certified cajun.

he may be able to understand me. mr. kottler has devoted much of his career to working on what makes small businesses work. in his current role at iberiabank, he is responsible for the retail segment including retail operations, if credit card sales, retail training, and small business. before joining iberiabank, he was executive vice president for small-business banking at capital one, covering texas, louisiana, maryland, d.c., and new york, new jersey, and connected. i do not know how you connected new jersey to the east coast. mr. kottler also hit capito 1's division in the texas area. he served as a high area's achieve sales but for the merger. his involvement in the consumer bankers association in 1995 as a memberth