in about 45 minutes, we will begin a discussion of the ongoing budget and debt ceiling debate. david keating. then, former democratic senator blanche lincoln. cornelia orr will have the nation's report card on u.s. history. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] host: the senate has decided to cancel its for the july recess. they will stay around next week in hopes of getting progress on the stalled budget negotiations. a new deadline has been set for the first week of july.

we are going to be talking about all this later on with david keating and blanche lincoln, the former arkansas senator. in our final segment this morning, we will learn more about how u.s. students are doing on american history studies. as we began this morning, we are going to look at a provocative ad we saw in usa today. they ask the question "is the american dream dead? kep good friday morning to you. you can also send us a twitter message this morning if you

would like to talk about our question this morning -- is the american dream dad? twitter.com/cspanwj. this is a full-page ad in "usa today." it is sponsored by americans mutual insurance company. they are asking people to answer. we thought we would ask you the question. some say the american dream is dead. we think they are wrong. what do you think? let's play a bigger impact all of that -- piggyback off of that. usa today had other versions of this in its editorial pages. the lessons for america is a new series. as the united states celebrates the 235th anniversary of its independence, a doctrine known as american essentialism -- to

some degree, it is appropriate. america is exceptional. the guarantees our history of invention, innovation, an enterprise -- are melting pot diversity and our military superiority, just to name a few. but american exceptional was and is also an invitation to smugness when just the opposite is needed. in their letters column, there is a similar theme. this independence day, readers offer a mix of optimism and concern for a nation. tell us what you think the american dream means and whether or not it is alive and well. first up, a staff writer for "the hill." he will bring us up-to-date on the negotiations on the budget. guest: as you mentioned, the

white house is setting july 22 as a deadline to get a deal. they are saying they need a little bit more than a week to pass any kind of deficit package through both houses of congress. republicans have been saying they do not want white house handshake deals parachuted into the senate and rammed it through in a matter of hours. they are going to try next week to really work between the white house and the senate on some kind of package. basically obama and vice- president joe biden will meet with democrats on wednesday and try to hammer something out. the focus is on the senate because there appears to be more willingness among the senate gop to consider some form of revenue increases. the move will be to try to sell that to the house gop, which is

considered more hide -- more hard-line. host: the president will be meeting with democrats? it is not a bipartisan meeting? guest: senate democrats want stimulus. i think that has to be dealt with. they have to figure out where they are on this before going back to the republicans. i think that makes sense in some ways. host: what is the point of the senate being around at there is not a deal to consider? guest: it would look really bad if harry reid would have allowed it to go forward. it has to do with [unintelligible] they will be considering a budget plan on tuesday. kent conrad revealed that he finally got some consensus among democrats on an alternative to

the house-passed budget. the sticking point had been bernie sanders who had assisted on a 50-50 tax increase to a spending cut ratio. he probably got something close to that. somehow, they have been able to satisfy more conservative democrats this is not one to score more of a tax increase than a spending cut. tuesday, conrad will brief the rest of the democratic caucus on the details of this plan which will cut about $4 trillion for the deficit over 10 years. host: or you and your colleagues hearing anything differently off camera that the public posturing we are seeing in terms of the deal being in the offing? guest: if you look at the rhetoric for the gop on taxes, there is with or room there.

-- wiggle-room there. they say there will not be any "job killing tax hikes." some people could read tax hikes -- talking of record, you get a sense there is wiggle- room to have a face saving, a tax loophole closing to get a deal. they want to minimize the size of that, i think. we may end up seeing a deal where democrats claim a victory by having a few depreciation changes, but i do not know. it is still pretty much in the air. we'll have to see. host: i am shirt conversations will be going on behind the scenes. you can read erik wasson at

thehill.com. is the american dream dead? that was in the usa today this morning. it was sponsored by eight insurance company that was to provoke conversation. comments are reflected in headlines this morning. the blame game goes on. this is this morning's "washington post." "usa today -- about this is for july 22 for a deal. a budget deal or bust -- the new york times. the washington times -- senate cancels vacation as debt talks still stuck. we will take our first endemic -- our first telephone call from barbara, a democrat. >> i think the american dream

has turned into the american nightmare. host: what is the american dream need to you? caller: it used to me social mobility. if he worked hard, got a good education you could live better than your parents and maybe move into the middle class. maybe all a home. those things are no longer options. those doors of our being closed shot. college is out of reach for most people. workers are being squeezed. productivity, but no pay or benefits. no pensions. from every angle, the american people are being squeezed into serfdom. host: is a recoverable? >> i do not know, susan. host: pete is a republican from long island. caller: i agree with barbara

cook the democrat. i am and republican. the last 30 or 40 years, every president since johnson has spent money and brought up our national debt. both parties are at fault. if we keep on playing games. we let these immigrants come into our country and keep on giving them welfare and all of this. i see in my state what is going on. that is a problem. we are spending money we do not have. our manufacturing base left us plans to our company's getting greedy. the unions -- it is a mess. we could get back in shape again, but it would be a real tough row. i think it would take 30 or 40 years. that's what it took us to get into this mess. i do not know what to say. i am praying we get back. host: thank you for your call

and have before the july do you. some are talking about the treasury secretary, tim geithner. there is a rumor that he was wanting to leave his post as treasury secretary. here is the headline -- dr. staying for now. there is a piece in the new york times. it suggests that jim geithner comments date plan to stay in his job for the foreseeable future was clearly intended to douse speculation. the white house is worried about the destabilizing effect of his departure. the word from the treasury is he will stay for the foreseeable future. a question about the status of the american dream. if enacted they call from pennsylvania. this is john, an independent there.

good morning, john. caller: good morning, susan. it is on life-support. host: what does it mean to you -- the american dream? caller: social mobility or economic mobility. has been pretty much corrupted over the past 30 years. the recent greece has said so many problems is that the upper classes do not pay their taxes. the politicians are corrupt. the middle-class has been stripped of their rights. the same thing is happening here. it is like a bad reality show, up from the supreme court to obama to both parties. we are on life-support host: host: next up is cape cod.

it is a republican there. caller: the american dream is dead. there were portions of the great society that were very important -- civil-rights and so on. it also created a mentality that the government will take care of you from cradle to grave. we even take our children now we introduced them to baseball, we do not keep score when they playe t-ball. people do not think there are rules. when we introduced them to rules, they have never had to live by rules. it has been a sad demise. the credit cards were pulled out in the great society and we have been spending money. we got off the gold standard under reagan. i am a republican, but getting

all the gold standard gave us a license to steal and create government. what about ourselves? what about taking care of our own problems? what about not letting others? why do we not look in the mirror? when people get up in the morning, but in the mirror and do something about your problems. it cannot be the government create -- cannot be the government. host: what you think? caller: i think it is dead, especially for the middle-class envelope. we do not have access to houses because of the economy. we are struggling to get our kids educated. the government used to protect us. it no longer does because the politicians and their inability

to protect the citizens who put them there. they are taking care of the corporations, both nationally and internationally, to take care of their own interests. host: here is a person profile by the richmond times dispatch honoring freedom. it profiles 47-year-old lee by johnson. he came to the united states in the summer of 1999. it says that he is thankful for the opportunities offered to him in the united states. this paper -- the answers are as varied as the backgrounds. it is a positive view of the american dream called "new american." -we are asking you about the american dream.

caller: it is funny -- this country has been in a financial bind before. this is not the first time. the world at some point has been in a financial bind. this is nothing new. me and my brother would fight sometimes. but it to anybody else would touch my brother, they would have it. that is the way this country is. this country is like that. we have our differences and everything else, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, we stick together, no matter how it looks. me and politicians do not get along. they are like a real bad rash. like i said, this country -- i do not believe it is dead. the american dream is going strong. sometimes we have to step back to get to it -- to get two steps forward.

host: the republican is up next. you are on the air. what do you think about the american dream and its state? caller: i think the american dream as well and alive and we need to make a reality. i thank god for my parents. i thank god for you. i thank god that some of the people in the new world order are starting to wake up and see what is happening. they are trying to straighten things out. i thank god for gm and the turnaround they made and the money they paid back. to chrysler for the money they pay back and the jobs that we have. the american people are starting to wake up. we are still here. we are still in the fight. i thank god that laura bush is right. i thank god that michelle obama is doing her thing.

i think c-span and the american people. god bless you all. host: next is a democrat in memphis. caller: people or the government. government is supposed to do the real of the people. i think the american dream is dead. my job closed up in march. i was a paper manufacturer. we manufacture paper for all seasons. they are closing up and moving to china. they are going to move to china in july. they will save $15 an hour. all these free trade agreements -- they are going to go to china. the corporations are moving overseas. it is ridiculous. they do not care about the

american worker. corporations and the government are working together against the will of the people. they give these people tax breaks to go overseas with taxpayer's money. they do not care about the american people. the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. i think it is a shame. i think the people at the bottom should get together and raise up against these people. host: thank you, larry from memphis. larry is a critic of the trade deals. there is action in the senate. -- theys a boycott boycotted a hearing on three free trade agreements that were on the obama administration's efforts to boost u.s. exports.

the trade adjustment assistance program cost about $1 billion and has strong bipartisan support in the past. but in the charged environment over spending and debt negotiations, the dispute is complicating what the administration and that would be an easy push to broaden trade with south korea, columbia, and panama. this is a new budget date for the states. we will give you a flavor of what is going on with budget negotiations around the country. you probably heard on the news that the governor of our state and his legislature where not able to find a compromise in minnesota. >> i deeply regret that the last week of intense negotiations between republican legislative leaders have failed to bridge the divide. our major difference is the same. it was a difference between my balanced approach in significant

spending cuts. >> that is governor mark dayton. minnesota government shuts down as budget talks stall pripet the governor has priorities about what would be paid after budget talks failed. this is the second time in six years in the state budget talks have failed. let's give you a flavor of what else is going on around the country in regard to budget negotiations. from michigan -- the mayor of detroit made a last-minute deal. chicago -- $367 -- three and $67 million in budget bids next up is georgia. governor deal pays a high price,

but fiscal affairs are now very manageable. in connecticut, the governor threatens more layoffs to close the deficit. this is a story from the financial times about california and crime-fighting. an austerity budget is sitting crime fighters. cuts are taking effect. the wall street journal says court decisions on state pension cuts -- pensions are being rolled back nationwide. that is a look at state of the states on this july 1. our question to you is is the american dream dead? a full-page ad in this morning's usa today. we are asking you what you think. next up, dallas tx.

caller: good morning. the american dream is still alive, but this is the problem. i am a republican, but i am disappointed with what the republicans are doing this time around. republicans have decided to decimate the middle class gradually. what does make me change my mind about republicans is when mitch mcconnell came on last december and said that his goal is to make obama a one-term presidents -- he does not care about the american people. he does not care about the middle class. over 22 million people are out of work. all he wants to do is mention obama as a one-term president.

the corporations are leaving the country. they do not have any plan for us. unfortunately, many americans are not educated in terms of what is going on. they do not read. they do not try to be informed. they do not care. host: that the understand your reasoning -- why would a party but to destroy it -- look to destroy the middle-class in this country? caller: they had been bought up by the corporations. it does been that way since reagan came into office. jobs have been going out of this country for 35 years. they gradually, gradually, gradually squeezed middle-class families. many people do not read about

what is going on in the country. host: we are talking about the understanding of american young people in the -- in the history of the united states later this morning. national test given to students and the knowledge of history it rolls into the discussion we are having this morning. the american dream has been destroyed by the capitalist and the republicans. our next telephone call is from colorado springs. good morning to read a, an independent there. caller: good morning. i do have an old u.s. president hanging and i am short he is spinning in his grave as are many of our founding fathers. we have had a coup d'etat. president obama use the word

"naive close-" in a recent speech. not only is the '90s, but so many of us are relieved. as my irish cousins say, you yanks have led a coup d'etat and you are too naive to recognize it. we have had a takeover by the billionaire rulers -- the corporations -- and it is time for us to wake up and recognize all of the manipulation, spin, and destruction that is keeping us from revolting. it is time for us all to come together regardless of party or no party and to say "enough is enough. we want our democracy back." the roll call out of the toilet and the free press to once again be the free press. host: thank you. next is a democrat from maine.

caller: good morning. the american dream is very much alive. but we are scaring ourselves to death, i think. if you want any evidence, look at the background of our president, bill gates, one benefit, and so many other people. it is still very much alike. it is amusing because one of the great debates is that we keep immigrants out. why do people still want to come here? because they note that our dreams are still alive. we have some serious problems. the dialogue is horrible today, but if you looked at history, the dialogue, the revolutionary war, the civil war -- we will get through this angry dialogue.

the spread between the rich and the rest of us is very troubling. on the other hand, it is by no means as great as it was in the 19th century or the 20th century -- the people who walked through biltmore and the other great houses -- the spread there was even greater than it is today. we will find our way through this. host: thank you for your comments. a few stories about the media to put on the table. coverage about mark helprin, a political analyst for nbc and a regular guest who was suspended from msnbc for his disparagement against the president live. the why shouldn't those covers of a plan that's signed off. -- the washington post coverage

of glenn beck's sign off. stephen colbert is wanting to organize eight super-pac. he was at the sec this week. he learned an important lesson in washington. even a gifted comedian cannot make the federal election committee funny. the ftc decided the comedy central start could go ahead with this plan to find eight super-pac. the panel also concluded that his employer, a viacom, would have to publicly disclose any help against to colbert.

is the american dream dead? here is barry smith. "if the american dream is not dead, but we are watching of the spent -- we're watching on defense." next is a republican from san diego. caller: i would not say the american dream is dead for everybody. as far as illegal aliens, they can come over here, have kids, get free education and free health care. it is probably not dead for them. it's probably over for white men over 50. that would be me, a few million others. host: are you still working? caller: no, i lost my job last november. host: what field were you? caller: transportation. it was kind of a dead-end job to begin with. host: so what are you doing with yourself these days?

i'm a 99'er. host: so you're on support -- caller: unemployment, yeah, a 99'er. host: what are your prospects for the future? caller: ool, i'm 60 years old, so i don't have much longer to be in the workforce anyway. but i don't know. i'm just taking it a day at a time. i've just been on unemployment for six months, so there's still time to think about it. host: thanks for calling in this morning from san diego. columbus, ohio, subpoena next, and this is charlie, who's an independent. we're talking about the american dream this morning. what are your thoughts on it? caller: my thoughts is it's a good thing that these people that we got in washington today that we didn't have them there a hundred years ago, nothing would have ever got built. washington, d.c. wouldn't have got built. the golden gate bridge wouldn't have got built. and i just -- i get so frustrated when i watch the news and things and see these people that we have in washington today, they blame one another or everything instead of sitting down and talking. we're all americans.

let's get this country back to where it used to be, not blaming one another, not blaming which party is the best, which party is not the best, and the republicans, their hero, ronald reagan, raised taxes to make more jobs in this country. bush taxes, for 10 years, has cut jobs out of this country. and we all know that we got a debt, and the only way we're going to get out of it, we going to have to pay more taxes so we can build this country back to where it used to be. we need roads. and don't be standing there in washington telling the american people that we need to cut more and more taxes. i hope our president really draws the line in the sand and says, look, we have the american people behind and we want to do and get this country back where it needs to be put

back to. host: charlie, thanks. jeannie up next on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i believe the american dream -- host: good morning. turn down your tv volume. we're getting feedback. that's the problem. caller: oh, ok. sorry about that. i'm kind of deaf in my left ear. i believe the american dream is and isn't dead. i think if they cut back on what they're paying our politicians instead of hitting us with higher taxes, and if they quit fighting up there like they're kids -- i mean, i got grandchildren and great-grandchildren that -- they might as well be in congress, because they fight. host: thank you. next up is cheryl, democrat, seattle, washington, as we

discuss the american dream on this independence day weekend. good morning. caller: good morning. yeah, i think the american dream has lost its focus. certainly those at the upper end of the economic scale are living the dream, but what i believe everyone is forgotten is that we're all in this together. and if it takes higher taxes paid equitably by all of us for the greater good, then that's what we need to do. certainly that's what the european societies do. and their way of life is much more consistent and equitable. host: what about all the debt crises that are happening in european governments right now? caller: well, certainly it's a global issue. it is a global issue. but when we talk about things like improved quality of life, like healthcare and education, european countries have it on us, have it over us.

they're much more satisfied. certainly there's room for improvement all the a warned, and that's a social responsibility. it's being willing to help out your neighbor and take part in your community and participate in government. we don't participate in government at the rate that we should. and we're building a legacy of apathy. host: that's cheryl in seattle. next, dan is an independent in georgetown, massachusetts. you're on, dan. good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for having me on this morning. i have a different perspective about the american dream. i think the american dream is alive and well. but i think it's more of a dream state. we seem so willing to dismiss things that are obviously happening on a global scale,

we'll dismiss facts to cling to beliefs that make us feel good about what's happened to our country and what's happening to our country. and we'll do anything to defend the dreams that we actually live in a just society that's free. and in reality, the things, the way that the government and portions of the government that are really in the shadows have been destroying our country from the inside out, so as long as these people can keep the dream alive that we live in a just society, not ruled by the the elite people, elite rich people of the world, if they can keep that dream long enough around, they'll take over the world and have a one monetary system for everybody. that's what's coming down. and we need to wake up out of

the dream. host: thank you. georgetown, massachusetts. a tweet, the american dream has been dead for years. president obama now claims that just scraping by is the new american dream. and in "the wall street journal" editorial page, there's some statistics about the effect of the timing on young people, the jobless summer is what they call it. here's a statistic in their editorial. only 24% of teens, one in four, have jobs, compared to 4 % as recently as the summer of 2001. the nearby chart chronicles the teen employment percentage over time, including the notable plunge in the last decade. so instead of learning valuable job skills, getting out of bed before noon, showing occupy time, being courteous to customers, operating a cash register, forklift, millions of kids will spend this summer playing computer games or just hanging out. we're talking with you about the american dream this morning. next up is los angeles. good morning, republican there. caller: good morning to you.

i came to the united states of america in 1957. i was a hungarian refugee. at the time, i spoke no english whatsoever. and coming from a communist country, i was not allowed to go to school there. so, for me, the dream was two-fold. number one, to get a university diploma, which i did. and secondly, to see communism die. and that came about in 1990, thanks to 45 years of hard work by the united states government, both democrats and republicans throughout the years. now, obviously the dream for everybody is different. but as i've been listening for

the past hour about all the dreams, it appears to me that most of the people are looking at it from a materialistic point of view. for me, freedom is more important than anything else. to me, it is the practice of religion. i don't care which religion you want to believe in, but to practice that religion, and i see that you are less and less likely to be allowed by a big cover. we are building america to practice your religion, to practice your belief in laws, to accept responsibility for individually and as families and as government for your

actions, and in that regard, i believe the american dream is lost. host: thanks. we're going to stop you at this time. thanks for adding your comments. on twitter, don't fall into the belief that the dream is dead. you're being manipulated for political purposes. parkville, indiana, sam is a democrat there, to talk about the american dream. good morning to you, sam. caller: hi. it from the united states of america to corporate states of america, united states of america, united corporations of america. corporations own this country. they have the republicans baltimore and paid for. they have the supreme court bought and paid for. we really have a lot of problems coming our way. thank you. host: thanks for your call. "baltimore sun" has a front-page story about immigration. opponents of tuition breaks for

illegal immigrants have more signatures. opponents of a new law to extend discounts to illegal immigrants delivered nearly 75,000 more signatures to the state on thursday, a number they believe is more than enough to keep the measure off the books until voters have had their say. next is the call from pittsburgh. good morning to trip, republican. you're on the air. caller: i'm just calling to say the dream is so dead, it's want even funny. i mean, with liberals wanting to just hack, hack, hack, i can't see how anyone would ever have the desire to work their way to the top. i don't want to go on a rant, but obama's plan for the taxation policy makes about as much sense as the first battle of antietam. it sounds like --

host: next tweet is on the air, and it comes from save republic, we're on the edge of losing the american dream, representative democracy for market government of, by, and for corporations. people, will we the people stop it. we have about four more minutes left in this discussion. next up is baltimore, george, independent. good morning good morning to you, george. caller: good morning. the american dream is not dead. the problem is the logjam in congress. i'm in favor of not taxing the top 2%, but the top 1%. $250,000 in new york city with a family that are putting two kids through college is not a lot, is not a lot of money, ok? but the top 1% is where all your billionaires and all the people with the tax loopholes are riding it free. i'm for selective tax cuts.

we have the second highest corporate tax rate in the world. next to japan. of course, with that high tax rate like that, companies are going to send their jobs out of here where they can get a cheaper business. that's business. that's capitalism, ok? i don't like it any more than everything that's made in china and every other country. that's ridiculous. but on the other hand, you know, in order to bring those jobs back, do you have to cut the corporate tax rate, and there is bipartisan support for it. i think congress needs to go into emergency sessions and take the things out that you agree on and immediately pass them to get the engine moving and to get people hired and back to work, which brings in tax revenue also. so let's hit the top 1%. let's get, you know, selective

tax cuts that benefit business so they'll hire people and do it that way. but let's agree upon what we agree on and what we disagree on, let's debate later. we don't have time now to be bantering back and forth about ridiculous issues. host: george, thanks, independent in baltimore. twitter, most of the liberals and progressives, both republicans and democrats, believe in the european socialist dream. they promise from and plunder the american dream. just a few more minutes left. next up is john from florida, a democrat. good morning. caller: i'm a democrat, and i'm a member of the have not is area democratic club. and i'm on social security disability, and i am concerned about the funding of social security. it has been drained by people,

politicians stealing social security from the funds for many years. my email address is -- host: john, i wouldn't give your email address live on television here, thanks. you'll be getting lots and lots of emails. we have one more voice left on this. it's from diane, republican in long island, as we talk about the american dream. go ahead, please, diane. caller: i'm glad i got through. yes, i believe the american dream is disappearing. i feel a lot of people, especially on the end of long island out here, are very discouraged because there are no jobs. my husband and are you over 60, and we've had a successful business disappearing. my fear is for our grandchildren and the generations to come. i believe, even though i am

republican, i do believe, as the other caller said, that the top 1% of the rich should be taxed higher. their taxes should be increased. we are just scraping by most of us anyway, while the rich fly over us in helicopters to get to the hamptons. there's a little bit of hostility boiling there. that's basically how i feel. susan, i read an article before about some reporter on msnbc being -- host: mark halpern, right. caller: i was wondering if you could read that one more time. thank you so much for your time. host: mark halpern has been suspended by msnbc for comments he made about the president yesterday. lots of clips of it on the internet if you're interested in seeing how the whole thing unfolded on msnbc. thanks to the discussion on the american dream. we're going to move to our guest significant thment morning. david keating of the club for growth next up, and after that,

blanch lincoln. we'll be right back after this break. >> tune in to c-span this independence day. writer like he will lind and other panelists discuss if the united states can remain united. >> at the political level, we're more divided. if you look at partisan polarization at any point since the civil war. >> then the dalai lama and sister prejean talk about the death penalty and violence. and later, nixon white housen siders discuss his presidency's foreign policy this monday, july fourth, beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. for the complete schedule of programs and times, go to c-span.org. >> well, they decided several days, really only several days before mckinley arrived that he was going to kill them. he had gone out, bought a pistol, and he followed the whereabouts in the newspapers,

which were reported in great detail where the president was going to be, and he began tracking him throughout the fair. >> on september 6, 1901, there were two fired shots fired at president william mckinley. sunday, we look at the president and his assassin and the changing era in which they lived, on c-span's "q&a." >> this fourth of july, three-day weekend on american history tv on c-span3, we'll visit the smithsonian museum of natural history to learn about a 19th century u.s. government expedition to circumnavigate the globe and their treasure, 40 tons of specimens which became the foundation of the smithsonian institution. former first lady laura bush on her time in the white house, planning her husband's presidential library, and her memoir, "spoke front heart." then a panel, including former clinton press secretary mike mccurry, discusses j.f.k.'s relationship with the press.

get the complete weekend schedule at c-span.org/history. >> i have huge trust in the united states of america. put it that way. i read it over and over and over. >> and i have huge faith in democracy and in the democratic process. >> learn more about france's christine lagarde, the new head of the international monetary fund, online at the c-span video library. she's just one of the almost 115,000 people you can search, watch, clip, and share any time. watch what you want, when you want. "washington journal" continues. host: this is david keating, executive director of the club for growth, which is what? guest: it's a group advocating policies that help create economic growth, things like limited government, economic freedom, low taxes, free trade, low inflation. host: you probably saw we've

been having a pretty robust discussion with the audience this morning about the state of the american dream. how would you assess it? guest: i would say a lot of people think things are looking like a nightmare for their family. host: what do you think? guest: look, i think there are a lot of positives in this country. i don't think, for all the flaws we have, we're the greatest country in the world. we have a great mix of people who have come to this country. almost everyone that's here has come voluntarily, and i think that's the one thing that gives us real strength. we have a good rule of law generally in the united states. we have pretty sound government overall compared to the rest of the world, so there are a huge number of positives here. and we have a lot more freedom than around the world. so i think the real pluses of america are the people, the freedoms that we have, and the ability to innovate, and that's what has made america great for so long. host: as you know, washington is tied up in knots this summer over the looming debt ceiling

deadline. guest: right. host: i saw that article from "usa today." one of many you see raising the question of what would happen if we reached the debt ceiling and no deal is reached. would you talk about how significant this debt ceiling question is and why or why not. guest: actually, i think it's quite a puzzling question. it's probably the most important legislative issue this congress will face during the two years. it will probably set up the debate about which direction the country wants to go in in the 2012 elections. so i think it's going to be really fundamental. the basic question is, are we going to continue on the path that we're on. everyone recognizes there are a couple of key problems. one is our economy is not growing fast enough, so we need to pursue policies to expand the economy. and second, all the budget projections by the c.b.o.

outside experts show that we have past programs that are unsustainable in the long run, and if we don't do something about this, the country eventually will weaned up in a situation like greece, where we won't be able to afford the debts that we're racking up. it's a very important question. they're not going to solve everything as part of this debt ceiling debate, but they can set up some parameters to put the country in the right direction or not. host: we've heard a number of people make the observation that, on one level, the entire conversation in washington has changed, that people are beginning to think seriously about how much government, the country can afford, etc., a way to cut rather than looking for programs to expand. do you believe that there has been a change in tone in the city? guest: it's actually remarkable in many, many ways. you have the discussion really now today is, how much government spending can be cut, how much should it be limited,

the growth of government. these are discussions that have not been seen in the past. a few weeks ago, the senate, by a large bipartisan vote, voted to end the subsidy for ethanol and allow ethanol to be imported without a special tax on it. that was an unprecedented vote. even the aarp has recognized publicly that changes need to be made to social security in the future. so these are -- they're kind of like preshocks for a political earthquake. clearly there's going to be a change in direction. but i don't think anyone knows the answer to how it's going to turn out. host: we will open up our phone lines, and you can also reach us by to witter and by email as the conversation proceeds with david keating. we'd like your questions or comments for him. we'll go to phone calls in just a couple of minutes. you heard a number of people call us during the last segment, concerned about the ex-ploy -- exportation of

american jobs overeast. i wonder what your opinion is about free trade deals and what role they have played in bolstering the economy or exporting jobs. guest: there's no doubt that free trade is something that has bolstered the economy here in the u.s. one way of looking at this, to make it easier to understand, is that the united states, one of the geniuses of the constitution and the founding fathers, when they designed the new united states of america was that we would have a free trade inside the united states. so new york couldn't put on special tariffs or import quotas for products shipped from, say, virginia, and vice versa. so we've had a free trade zone here in the united states for the entire time of our country, and it's one of the things that's made our country great. the people in each state are able to do what they do best, and when everyone's able to do what they can do best and most sufficiently, everyone's going to be better off. now, that doesn't mean every

person at every time is going to be better off, but as a whole, as a nation, indeed, as a world economy, we're all going to be richer for it. host: with regard to negotiations about the budget and debt ceiling, our first guest suggested that senate republicans are beginning to signal that there is some opening for discussion of tax increases in various individual programs, not so much looking at overall increases in the marginal rate, but finding ways to increase taxes -- say, for example, the corporate jet tax. do you have a line in the sand about taxes? guest: well, look, we think that the key is to get tax rates down, and that is one of the keys to economic growth. we have a tax code where, whenever you mack a major decision, whether an individual or a company, you would be foolish if you didn't consider the tax consequences.

. instead of maximizing the best investment to get the highest return on your money, people sit around and figure, well, what will the tax code get me in addition to what i might get from the investment? so we spend a lot of time figuring out how the benefits of the tax code instead of what makes sense economically. so the extent we can watch the tax rates and lower some of these tax codes, we can get more economic growth. that's the solution for the long run. you have to look at countries -- the countries doing well are the ones that can afford the programs that a lot of supporters and congress might want. if we don't have the economic growth, we're going to be fighting over a smaller pie rather than something where everyone's benefiting in the country. host: before we go to calls, i want to talk about the attitude in washington changing. when congress comes back, the defense appropriations will be on the table. first of all, this is "washington post" this morning,

pentagon costs are rising quickly. healthcare expense have outpaced those elsewhere. the c.b.o. projected on thursday that higher costs for weapons systems and healthcare will increase the pentagon budget by $40 billion over the next five years, at a time when president obama and many lawmakers are looking to cut military spending. that's item one. item two, this morning in the opinion page of the "wall street journal," the whole top half of the page, donald rumsfeld, the peril of deep defense cuts is his piece, and he argues why all those suggesting that earmarks are a potential target among others. then in the "washington times" today, winslow wheeler, we've had him on our program before, defense appropriations, pork and gimmicks as usual. democrats and republicans alike pretend that austerity is the new rule. here's what he writes, it's a $649 billion bill close to another post-world war ii high, pretending reform and frugality, members of the house

appropriations committee, democrats and republicans alike, have packed the bill with pork and gimmicks. the bill would spend $17 billion more than last year, but the house is calling it a cut because it's less than the original request president obama sent to congress in february. what's your reaction to all that? guest: well, i would not be surprised if there's plenty of pork in the defense appropriations bill. i mean, that's been a grand tradition for many years. i remember even ted kennedy, who was generally an opponent of defense spending, as long as the bomber was in part made in massachusetts, he was for that bomber. that's something politics as usual hasn't changed in all departments of washington, and the defense budget is one where you've seen ear marks historically. >> getting back to the earlier conversation, people are beginning to talk about cuts, but they're still safe? guest: well, look, i think part of this is, the committee

realizes the big fight's going going to be over the debt ceiling limit. that's where the hard negotiations are going to be put out. and then they will probably be given a new number, and they'll have to revisit that bill that they've worked on in committee and meet the new number. so if that's what happens, it's probably a good thing. host: so first things first. guest: look, here's what each department or each function of government is going to be getting, and then work out what you think you can get, the most bang for the buck, so to speak. host: let's get to calls for you. we're going to begin with a call from los angeles. michelle is a democrat there. you're on for david keating of the club for growth. caller: given that you made the comments about the republican candidate mitt romney has developed an unshakable reputation as a flip-flop per uses federal powers to coerce

taxpayers, and tim pawlenty is hard to pin down, who do you like? guest: well, what the club for we haveohas been doing, published a series of white papers on many of the presidential candidates, all of those that have declared publicly that they ought are going to be running for office. the club has a political action committee. we have not made a decision about which candidates to endorse and we may not endorse any candidate for president. we have made three endorsement already for u.s. senate candidates. jeff blake in arizona. in the house, steve king for representative in iowa. we are going to analyze all of

the presidential candidates. there may be some that we will declare, and if we do we will publish a white paper on them, too. a republican of michigan -- that will make him the third sitting member of the house tossing his hat into the ring. he opted not to run for a third term last year. do you have any early reactions to his entry? guest: we plan to publish a white paper on his record and i do not think it is going to be all that complementary. we think it is great that people are putting their hat into the ring and giving voters a choice. we look forward to what his platform is in running a presidential campaign. host: what do you think the main theme of the presidential election will be? guest: what we are going to do to help grow the economy.

two, we have an unsustainable budget for the future, so what is going to be done with that? so this is something that will be decided in the 2012 election. the control over the house and senate is going to be up for grabs. part of the debate should be should we solve these problems with massively higher taxes? you cannot pay for all of these programs by taxing the top 1% or 2%. or are we going to limit the growth and try to make the economy grow? host: next up, ketith is a republican. good morning. caller: good morning. on this tsa -- doesn't anybody realize we have enough law

enforcement agencies from all of the state's that have local police, state police, county police? these officers and these ex military -- they should put the tsa out of business because we have enough people in the united states because these law enforcement agencies when one gets on a plane, they are authorized to carry weapons. they are trained in them. when they get on the plane, they can give them rubber bullets. when they get off the plane, they could be given their lead bullets back. it is an intrusion on the american people privacy. that would be a good place to start.

host: thank you. cutting the government by cutting the tsa. i do not know how much we spend on the tsa. the question is probably how best can it be done and at the lowest cost as well? whether it is the current tsa or we have the airports or the airlines do it, i do not know but i suspect we could probably make some deficiencies there, too. host: ted is an independent. good morning. caller: good morning. i think the jobs in the usa were cut because of jobs and wages. these are rich corporations and individuals do not like to pay decent wages and taxes, so they moved to china, japan, taiwan,

wherever, korea. they are greedy and they are getting rich. the people that are left are still on employment. i think we need to put a moratorium on those boats that last year with taxes and wages because this country runs on taxes and wages. if we put a moratorium on them to not let them send their goods and services back here and pay for, you know? then the government can help people that really need it, the ones that are drawing unemployment and the ones who know how to create these things and do it. let them create the jobs. they are taxpayers and they believe in good wages. let's quit handing it out to wall street, the banks, and the

top 2%. just everything with the oil companies and the subsidies and the places that they do not need to go. everybody knows what is wrong. all it is is a bunch of stiff- necked republicans and democrats that do not want to do what is right. guest: there is a lot there. i would start by saying i would agree that there are tax policies making it more difficult for our companies and our workers to be competitive in the international market. one of the things we can do is lower the tax rates that are corporations have to pay in the united states and we can be more competitive overseas. a lot of our companies are operating not only here in the united states but also overseas. when they make a profit overseas, they have to pay an additional tax on those profits. so the companies have an

incentive to keep the profits that they have made overseas rather than bring it back to the united states. i think if we lowered that tax, a lot of these companies would like to invest that money in the united states. recommendingcomment the rule that is put on these other countries. that would start a trade war. if you are not going to take products from our country, we are not going to take products from your country. we export a lot from the united states. we make some of the finest aircraft in the world. many airlines are using boeing equipment. i would not be surprised if you would see other countries not allowing boeing equipment to be sold in their countries or buy u.s. agricultural products.

caterpillar manufactures a lot of earth moving equipment and construction equipment that is very popular around the world. a trade war is something like many wars, everyone is going to it.ud up poorer because of host: let's listen to senator harry reid talk about the budget negotiations. >> why have we done this? why have we pointed out these individual tax breaks,? you add them together, they are worth tens of billions of dollars. iso appreciate my colleagues going down to the floor and laying out to the american public what we are talking about. guest: that is something i said earlier in the program.

we have a tax code that is inefficient. host: so you agree with him. guest: what he wants to do is collect the money so they can spend more. these tax breaks are making our tax laws very inefficient and complicated. " we need to do is spur economic growth in this country. get rid of the tax breaks, lower the tax rates so people are not making decisions based on what the tax code says it. host: the next telephone call comes from cleveland. loretta is a democrat. caller: mr. david keating, i want to change the conversation and bring it back on shore. my topic this morning is the deal, the bribe, the agreement, the pact, call it what you want,

that the republicans in congress have made with grover norquitz. taxes pay for the cost of government. this deal, agreement, whatever it is, that the republicans signed with norquitz, -- my question to you is the oath that congress signed -- is it to the people or norquitz? is this illegal? there should be an investigation on him. republicans say they are against a bailout, but they are for tax cuts and they fail to realize that tax cuts are mini bailouts.

all of those bailouts -- $4 billion for the oil companies, $3.50 trillion went for jobs under the bush administration, and we did not get jobs. we got outsourced. i want to know when are the republicans going to be responsible for what they are doing to the country. thank you. guest: i think the original dge by n was this pleg grover norquist. like many groups, there are tons of groups out there that circulate pledges. basically, it says that both republicans and democrats to sign it to say they will not vote to raise income tax rates, nor will they vote to reduce

income taxes and credits unless those reductions are offset by tax rate deductions. that is the pledge that he asked candidates to sign eight. other groups circulate other pledges on social security, abortion, the environment. these things are a part of the candidate's platform when they run, and the voters decide whether they want to send these people to congress or not. i do not see anything illegal about the pledges. grover has not agree to give money to their campaign if they sign it. i believe his organization does not even have a political action committee. i think the pledges are entirely legal and is something that is a part of politics. host: you might be interested in an op ed from the governor of

massachusetts. the headline is -- mike on twitter wants to go back to the debate -- guest: there is no evidence of that. i would point to the prosperity of the united states. we have had a free trade zone, and everyone accepts it is a good idea. certain states were seen as having certain advantages over others. another thing that i'd like to point out to people is we are all best at doing something, either individually or as a country or as a corporation. we would not want to pass a law that says only bananas could be

grown in minnesota. bananas can be grown in minnesota but they cannot be grown very efficiently or cheaply. that is a simple example. yes, we could grow bananas and minnesota, but we do not want to do that because we would all be poorer because of its. host: this message also from twitter -- guest: yeah, i think that was something i said earlier. it would help the economy grow faster. i think that is one of the keys to solving our budget problem and is actually crucial. one way to grow the economy is to get the tax rate down. corporations would make investments based on how they can grow jobs instead of

balancing the tax considerations. host: of maryland, you are up next to my duty is a republican critic caller: good morning. i love c-span as always. i am very concerned because i think we are being led by charlatans and magicians. there was an article in the washington post this morning about bank fraud. every day, every day, repeated the, we read about fraud in afghanistan, iraq, pakistan, and now the congress wants us, after giving away our jobs, not fair trade, free trade agreements -- now they want to go back and give them away with korea. i cannot believe the direction that this country has gone in. we keep talking about corporate

tax rates. that is the key word. "rate." they are not paying 35%. they are paying 4%, 6%, 9%, and i am making up the difference. the irs is after a relative of mine who lost their job. they owe them $5,000. karzei and his brother have walked off with billions of dollars and our congress cannot seem to stop it. guest: well, there is a lot there. obviously, a lot of these countries, and it is very disappointing to see fraud and hopefully over time it will go down, i do not want to make any excuses for it because there are no excuses for that activity. a lot of these countries do not have the same developed a rule

of law that we have over here. even in our country, there have been instances of fraud and bribery and things like that. there were huge problems in its new jersey and in the past. in illinois, rod blagojevich is it going off to jail unless he wins his appeal. clearly, fraud is something that goes with politics and government. hopefully, we can cut it to the most extent possible. you also said something about the trade agreements. here in the united states, we did not impose any import restrictions on products from the central american free-trade agreement countries. and no import quotas or tariffs.

at that agreement, those countries to lower their taxes or any restrictions they had on u.s. products. it was a total win for the united states. the same thing for the columbia free trade agreement. we have no import taxes. this trade agreement would make it easier for u.s. products to be shipped. host: jimmy on twitter asks -- guest: well, i think tim pawlenty got it right when he said we should have a goal in the 45% growth. i do not think we can make their goal every year but it is a good goal to have. let's have everyone come up with the best ideas we can to get our economy growing as fast as we

can. what was the second part of the question? host: about energy costs. guest: energy costs will impact our competitiveness around the world. if we could figure out a way to provide energy more efficiently in the united states, that would give us an advantage over other countries. host: next up is fort worth, a democrat. caller: your comparison of trade agreements between the states and the trade agreements between other countries does not make an ounce of sense because we live in the united states and what these companies have done it is at last the united states and then come back to us using cheaper labor. how in the world is that fair?

it is just frustrating to me to see that you are sitting there talking about how good freed trade is for us when 300 million of us cannot buy anything in this country for our households made in the united states or very rarely. he would have to search for days just to find a coffee pot. how do you justify comparing the two things between the states and other countries? besides that, this thing is just frustrating to me. how people like you can sit there and talk like this. the only trade agreements that we have made it that made any sense was nafta, between north america, canada, mexico, and

south america in our own time zone. the rest of it does not make any kind of sense. guest: at the time, nafta was very controversial. the same arguments were made. there was an argument that all of the american jobs were going to go to mexico. it turned out not to be the case at all. joanne believes that nafta has been a good thing, and it has been, not only to the u.s. but the other countries that have signed onto it. earlier when you talk about a free trade zone for the entire unit states, that was something that had some controversy at the time and a certain states were seen as having advantages over the others. it worked. we had a free-trade zone in the united states.

we have a free trade zone with canada and mexico. it is going to work for all of us if we have free trade zones with other countries as well. that is not to say that there will not be problems. there will be dislocations as adjustments are made, but over the long run, it is going to make us richer in the united states and people richer all over the world. people trying to make a living in other countries, i think it is good that they get out of poverty as well. the final point i would make is if we start this trade war and decide that we are not going to take products from other countries, we are going to massively and not only to lose jobs from exports closed off but prices will soar in the united states. it will be hard to secure these other products that are made overseas and we will see sharply

higher prices. host: i want to tell you about our guest as we wrap up our time with him. prior to his position as the executive director of the club for growth, he was a senior executive in washington director. he served on the national commission of a restructuring of the irs. how did you get so interested in tax policy as a career? guest: that is a good question. i guess a came partly through my studies in college and after college. i spent a lot of time reading up on economics. i really do believe that economic freedom is a key component of freedom. and the national taxpayers union was a place that i had got a lot of attention for working for rights and lower taxes. i thought it would be a great place to work. it was very interesting.

i was able to do a lot of things there and with supporters on capitol hill. i also remember working on other things such as passage of the taxpayers' bill of rights, adding indexing to the reagan tax cuts in 1981, and that has made a huge difference over time. in the debate of how taxes will be handled by congress. it has been very interesting. host: a twitter user asks this question -- guest: well, actually, they are not the lowest in 60 years. after 1986, there was a bipartisan tax reform act with the income tax rate was 28%. today, the top rates are in the high 30's for income tax alone.

the rates are close to 40%. if you count taxes at the state and local level, in many places, it is higher than that. if you look at when the country has grown and done particularly well, it is when we have lower tax rates. host: michael is an independent. good morning. caller: there are a couple of things isee go on. that is our constitution -- if washington and jefferson were alive today with abraham lincoln and the assault of the mess we were in, what with a really say? and they would be shocked why we are in this in the first place. guest: i agree. we have not talked about this this morning, but one of the items up for debate on this debt

ceiling is the idea of a balanced budget amendment. thomas jefferson wrote about a single amendment that he would like to add to the constitution, and that was a balanced budget amendment because he thought it was important to secure the financial security of the country in the future. i think he was right. interestingly, a lot of the states have adopted restrictions on its debts or deficits. while some states are in bad shape financially, some of them have a weaker balanced budget rules, by and large, the state finances are on sounder footing than the finances at the federal level. what is the difference? do we have a better quality of politicians at the state level? i think some of them would argue that we do. i do not think we have much of a difference. barack obama used to serve in

the illinois legislature. the difference is we have a different set of rules at the state level and we have no limits at the national level. so i think it makes sense to have a balanced budget requirement. i think thomas jefferson would of said, "see? i told you so." caller: i think the whole thing it stems from democrat jealousy of almost everybody that makes it in america because we all know democrats are leeches that sock on the rest of us. people who earned their money work for it and people like obama say you did not earn this money, it is my money. we always hear this jealousy about corporations and rich people from democrats because they are such losers. they cannot seem to run a corporation. we just saw the economic

collapse. they are all crooks just like obama and clinton. guest: i cannot agree with a lot of those sentiments. there are many people who run businesses that are democrats as well as republicans. i do not think people's political outlooks has anything to do with how they can run a business. i think there is too much focus among too many democrats about class warfare. i do not think it does our country any good to pretend we can solve our problems by raising taxes on the highest 1% or 2% earners in the country. there is not enough money there to balance the budget in the long run. it cannot happen. they are trying to mislead the country about this. if you raise taxes very, very

high on those productive workers, that is going to have an impact as well and have an impact on prices. if you raise taxes on successful doctors and physicians, what do you think they are going to do customer they are going to try to raise the amount that they charge. there is no free lunch with this tax policy issue. if we raise taxes on the rich, i suppose they will raise their prices or something else. it is just a way for politicians to hide the burden of what they are doing. i think it is pretty clear. host: melvin is a democrat. caller: first of all, it seems like every morning between the second and third segment

preaches republican talking points. jim was talking about democrats and putting money into successful businesses. basically, they are paying less taxes than other people who are working for them in lower positions. secondly, this gentleman was talking about the irs and the tax policy. most billionaires are paying the same percentage of taxes than a person making and $37,000 a year. most of them are not paying anything. when you have these individuals on, you need to have somebody on that can prove or come up with paperwork to prove their points

rather than throwing out this information. thank you. guest: i would be happy to post something on our website, and you can look later today, about the percentage of taxes paid by the top 5%, top 2% of the public compared to the rest. most people, especially if they have families, if they are earning $30,000 a year, they are not paying any income taxes at all. it is hard to pay less than 0%. so, go onto our website, and we will point to some of the evidence about how much the rich are paying in income taxes. host: the last call for david keating is from florida, a republican there.

good morning, calvin. caller: thank you for taking my call. all of us in the united states who want to support this country do not want to buy eight any goods except american. i am surprised by all the cars that i see. we could propose our own prohibition for all of these goods coming in by doing that. the second point i would like to make is in this country we need to show our representatives publicly funded their campaigns to get elected because the more they are funded by corporations, the mrore they are in the pocket of those corporations.

we speak a lot about freedoms in this country, and we need to protect those freedoms. there are other freedoms that we seem to forget. even as a republican, i have to say i agree with ron paul because he seems to think that you can have a freedom without responsibility. to give an example, if the things we can do everything we want, why doesn't he drive down the wrong side of the road? host: we are going to stop at that point. americans buying american. guest: it is a free country. a lot of companies to advertise that their products are american-made. if people think it is important, the information is available. many products have where the

product was manufactured. public funding of campaigns, he suggested -- personally, i think that is a bad idea and i would not support it. i understand people who do support it and i understand their arguments. i do not think it will be something that will happen anytime soon. i think the point that people need to take responsibility for their actions -- i hope that is something that everybody can agree with. host: how do you think the next couple of weeks are going to play out? guest: i really do not know. it is a very difficult political problem to solve. you have the house of representatives controlled by one party, fairly conservative, and then in the senate, you have a split almost evenly between the two parties. did you have the white house controlled by a democrat. how'd you get these three

political actors to get there? how do cobble together the votes in the house and senate for something that helps the country? i hope that can be done. i think it can be done, but it is going to be a very interesting few weeks ahead. host: thank you for being on this friday morning. we are going to take a break. our next guest is former senator blanche lincoln. we will be right back. ♪ >> every saturday in july, here historic supreme court oral arguments on c-span radio on equal protection and sex and race discrimination. tune into to c-span radio in

washington, d.c. and online at cspanradio.org. >> there are three days of "book tv " programming this holiday weekend. joined the heritage foundation book party for ann coulter. sunday, live with linda hogan who writes about the native american experience and responsibility that she believes people have to the environment and other species. look for the entire schedule online. >> it used to be we did not release the transcripts of the arguments. now we release them within a half hour. he used to beat the audio

recordings were released at the end of the term. now they are released at the end of every week. we are moving in a particular way. cameras present all sorts of challenges that these other areas and do not. >> right now, watch chief justice john roberts latest comments on cameras in the courtroom. online at youtube.com/cspan. >> c-span has launched a new, easy to navigate web site for politics and the 2012 presidential race. and links to c-span media partners. visit us at c- span.org/campaign2012. >> "washington journal" continues. host: our next guest on this

friday morning, july 1, is blanche lincoln who served in the senate from 1999 until 2011 and is now in washington and a d.c. -- in washington, d.c. guesfirst we used to this advertisement. it is the american dream dead? how would you answer that question? guest: absolutely not. i have seen the good and the bad. you know, i remember, as i do almost every day, but certainly right now as we celebrate the fourth of july, for whatever faults is that people may find with our country, it is still the greatest place and the greatest country that we could be blessed with to live in. it is our responsibility. host: what makes it the greatest

place? guest: of the fact that we can come together and talk about what the best ways to make our nation great. we got ourselves tied in knots right now but if we continue to remind ourselves how blessed we are to be here, hopefully, we begin to come together and realize that members of the senate or the house did not come here or should not have come here with the idea that they are going to create a work of art or solve the problem overnight. it is a work in progress, and there is a lot to do right now. we have to buckle down and do that. there are some things that you have to give in on to create a conglomeration of ideas to move forward. we have become so focused on this in the gratification of solving the problem overnight. host: how do you see the next

few weeks playing out? his description of the interest among the players at the negotiating table suggested he does not know. do you? guest: i do not think anybody knows what is going to happen. i join the american people in trying to reinforce the congress . allowing our nation to default is not an option. we have watched other countries that are at the brink of that. it is one thing to think of greece in this situation, but when you think of our nation at that breaking point, it is just unconscionable. it is not just the consequences for us as americans but for the global economy. host: what we do say to the members about the negotiations

right now? guest: i would say, first and foremost, this is a critical question at a critical time. be willing to work in a bipartisan way. it is interesting because i think we realize the value of working in a bipartisan way. we are joined by other congressmen, democrats and republicans. bill has been a democrat and republican. nonetheless, working together and realize that you have to take steps and have the checks and balances -- dealing with the deficit is going to take tough choices. it is going to be a balance of things. we cannot do it all with revenues or tax expenditures. you have got to look for that balance. that is what i would be encouraging my colleagues to do, to look for that balance.

put some benchmarks, some targets that you have to meet with consequences. host: what with the message before the gop? what would the message be for the gop? guest: i have certainly voted for my share of tax cuts because i believe in them. at the time when we had a surplus. just as a former chairman greenspan mentioned, we are in a different time right now. it is the complete opposite in terms of the surpluses that we had in that time when we were able to give people those tax cuts, we also had not been through 9/11 or had the extreme expenditures and our military spending. you have to look at where we are at the time to solve the

problem. we did that in 1993 when i was in the house. it is just like a doctor who sees a patient. every patient is different. host: a couple of specifics -- the president has argued for a while now to roll back the tax cuts that were inaugurated during the bush years. looking back on your voting record, you have passed different things at different times. what is your opinion about the bush tax cuts? guest: well, as the last of four children, my father said we were all very independent-minded. i do not know what you have to stay with the same remedy for whatever time it was. we are in a different time. let's look at what we need right now to grow our economy and to grow jobs. we need to make good, sound

investments. coming out of the election from the last cycle, people were frustrated out there. they were mostly frustrated with the fact that congress and washington -- they are just not productive. the lack of productivity up here. making investments in infrastructure, long-term investments that we know will grow the economy and help us get out of the hole that we are in in terms of job creation. host: water some examples? guest: the faa reauthorization would be great. no child left behind. we are almost five years overdue. these are good, solid investment in infrastructure that not only would create immediate jobs but would also create jobs in the long term. most people have a gps in their

car. you get on the plane traveling commercially, there is a striking number of air travel where they don't have that. there are so many things there that would help us in terms of manufacturing, investment in infrastructure. whether it is the faa, the highway bill, education, the farm bill. multitude of different things. the trade agreement. i know you talked about that earlier. i was very supportive of a trade agreement. opening up trade with other countries -- we are in a global economy now. i very much supported fair trade. we have got to work on the economy. host: you mentioned agriculture.

did the senate make a recommendation on the ethanol subsidies? guest: i have to believe that we are never going to alleviate our dependence on foreign oil and moving to the kind of volume of renewable fuel if we do not allow everybody an equal chance. we put all of our eggs early on in the basket of corn-based ethanol. it needs to be -- and cellulose ethanol and biofuel. you cannot grow those industries and those technologies if they cannot be cost competitive. do we need ethanol? yes, we do, and we need to make sure we support it in a way that is reasonable and balanced. host: let me get to one other big topic and then we will start taking calls.

that is the medicare debate. what do you think of paul ryan's medicare plan? guest: i think there are too few big steps and not enough baby steps. i think it is critical for us. i was willing to vote on the medicare part d which a handful of our democrats did that with president bush because i could not imagine a health-care program for seniors without prescription drugs being integrated into it. was it perfect? no. did it take the necessary steps to get us started on that discussion and debate and the evolution of a senior health care plan that had prescription drugs? yes, it did. i think that is how we have to approach medicare. a baby girl born today as a 50% chance or better of living to

100 my husband's grandmother passed away a couple of years ago one a week shy of 112 living in her own home. these are the things that we are dealing with. people are living longer. i was very engaged with care coordination, wellness, how we coordinate care for our seniors in order to make sure not only are they getting the appropriate care but getting it in the setting that they want and having the quality of life that they want as well. medicare is an issue that, coming together, we can work to make better. host: from georgia, a republican. you are on with blanche lincoln. caller: great show. only in america could somebody of limited ability, an independent auditor for fortune

500 companies, and along the way, i was threatened about every way a person can be because i covered large sums of money for my client. in 2006, i want to go ask my bankers some questions that frightened me to death. in testimony before the financial crisis, the vice president of citibank admitted that their bank in 2007, 60% of the loans were known to be bad. in 2008, it grew to 80%. weeks later, the ceo's said citigroup was too interconnected and too big to fail, implying that we would have to bail them out again. isn't this a declaration that americans are now in slaved to criminals customer that is my first question. the second question relates to your role in regulations just

before you left. the stock market -- the financial accounting standards board changed the rules saying that toxic assets were no longer toxic and were only temporarily impaired. were -- theye wory found out there was not a market for them. this stems back to the modernization act in which congress gave the banking industry's exemptions from the state gambling laws and also insurance regulations. doesn't this mean our money is on the same footing as bad gambling debts in an attempt to cheat and lie our way to prosperity? host: a complicated question. guest: i think first and

foremost it is important to recognize that from the cma we have discovered there was a 600 trillion dollar market place that was acting out there with no transparency or oversight. we had no idea that there was that the volume of activity in those he didn't markets until we began to see the problems that existed -- hidden markets until we began to see the problems that existed. we put together a bill to ensure those tools would go through more of the kind of transparency and oversights that is used in the stock market. i thought that was necessary and i think is going to continue to be necessary. i think others believe it is important for us to do that. that is what we have been doing. untangling all of that is not something that is going to happen instantaneously. you are exactly right that we

were allowing some of those financial institutions to operate using some of those risk-management tools in a way that was unheard of. i think we have made a good step with the derivatives portion that we did in the financial regulatory reform bill to begin to unwind that and put into place the oversight, recognizing that risk management is an essential for businesses to be able to operate and be competitive. we have other countries now that are interested in what we did because they realize they are going to have to do something. you have seen in u.s. banks recently that have invested in some of these risky tools overseas, and unfortunately, have met the same kind of problem that date met before. we now have in place the tools. provided we can give the sec the resources that they need to be able to do their job, we now

have in place rules that will prevent that from happening in our country. i applaud the gentleman for doing a great job on his own, and not only understanding what is going on today, but using the tools and skills of the basics in terms of accounting to realize that as complicated as things may get, you still have to go to those basic accounting rules to understand what comes in and what goes out to make sure everyone is being held accountable. host: the next question comes from san francisco. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i just wanted to say the debt talks -- they probably will continue to stall. the person that you had on earlier -- no one mentioned -- no one who called in recognize the fact that it was an entity

set up as a pac. another thingm, too, is this country as far as if it is dead, this country -- if you look at what happened with germany and hitler and the propaganda machine that was out there, that is what is here in america. we have been propagandized and misinformed. most of us will not take the time to understand what is really going on with america and with our leaders that pretend to say that they are all trying to work together. no one is working together with president obama. he has been over backwards to the demise of his own faith to

try to work with the republican party, and they have drawn lines in the sand and have said absolutely not. host: thanks for your call. guest: first of all, hopefully all of us as americans as we celebrate the fourth of july are going to work together. i think that is what has to happen on capitol hill. i was always a bipartisan member and enjoy working with both my republican and democrat colleagues. we are in a crucial situation right now with the debt ceiling and the issues of the fall before us. we have to realize that it is not an option and we have to put together a plan that recognizes you cannot do it all by cutting the ing or, you know, expectations and the revenue raising. we have to make sure we come together with a plan that uses all the tools and our toolbox.

host: from colorado -- guest: well, i think some of it we saw coming, but also some of it happened -- if we can remember, 9/11 was not something that we predicted. military spending and some of those instances. there are a lot of things that are unpredictable. again, i go back to the responsibility that congress has and one of the things that i was always frustrated with is there are the day-to-day housekeeping tools that we have to do. those are basically, you know,

the kind of infrastructure investments that we have to be making that we have not been doing on a regular basis. all of those things need to be done, and they are a big part of making sure that we can keep the economy churning. trade agreements that have been sitting on the table forever. those are the kinds of things that we need to be moving along. those are the day-to-day laundry that we have to do. we also have to focus in on how we can deal with the circumstances that we could have not predicted. she is right. i voted for a constitutional amendment to balance the budget and multiple things that i thought would pull us back to dealing with whatever it was the mundane for the exception. we have to keep working towards that. host: this is a good follow up from a viewer --

guest: no. and i do not know if health care was what cost me my seat. i got hit from both sides because i dared to challenge both sides. that was ok. i felt blessed to be able to serve my country. it was a great opportunity. that does not mean i give up just because i am not there anymore. it does not mean i stop preaching about the partisanship that is necessary. that is one of the reasons why i ended up at the firm and a bipartisan circumstance, working with somebody like former majority leader bob dole and my other colleagues from the house.

i find that everyone of those individuals came to the congress with the idea of solving problems and working in a bipartisan way. that is been my attitude all along. i will try to solve the problems in a way that is realistic. one day at a time, one step at the time, recognizing that we are in special circumstances that we find ourselves in. host: do you see yourself running for an elected office in the future? guest: i think it is a great opportunity for everyone. i knew i would not do it forever. as i said, much of the reason that i was sent home was because i challenge to both sides to really come together and a vote for the solutions that move us forward. i do not regret that at all.

host: chicago, joe, an independent. good morning. caller: my question is about something that i have not heard discussed and i am wondering why not. why could we not provide very focused tax breaks for companies that add jobs rather than cutting taxes would increase jobs? and possibly even increase taxes for companies that do not add jobs or actually cut jobs? guest: great question. one of the bills i introduced before i left and had worked on for a little bit of time was not only the research and development tax credit, which is really critical in our nation, where we do an awful lot of research and development and, with great ideas, but i went the next step and offered the tax credit for those companies that not only did research and development but used the research and development to

create jobs here in this country. they put that to the next step, whether it was manufacturing, services, technologies or whatever, and manufacture the product or provided that service in this country, then they got an additional tax credit. you are exactly right. sometimes we create the ideas or the technology and it gets many factored were sent overseas or something else. it is a great opportunity. host: for former senator blanche lincoln, oregon, john, republican. caller: how are you doing this morning? michael is in relation to the real-estate market. -- might call is in relation to the real-estate market modification, 22 words normally, but you might have something that is less, clear with the 22- word scripture, and that is in isiah. she promised god she would rule

for strickling 1000 years. -- strictly 1000 years. those angels have a gender in the back of the bible -- host: john, you started with the real estate market. what is the connection? caller: it is in is very clear in our owner, king james. host: ok, we will let that stand as a comment. he as an interpretation that we stand at a moment in history based on biblical meetings. good morning. caller: i don't even know where to start. i started out with a question and i'm completely someplace else. i think mrs. lincoln and did lose her seat over health care, and her voting in congress represented that she did go more with the republicans then she

did with the democrats and that is why she was voted out. i just don't understand how she can sit there so stoically and stair into the camera. you ask her question earlier about the bush tax cuts, and she went around and around and around, and you didn't have her answer the question. i would like to have her answer the question about it should be implemented now -- out if she thinks it should be implemented now. of course she is not going to answer, and i would like that answer. guest: sure. what i said to susan was why do we have to say whether or not we will use the bush tax cuts? why don't we come up with a new tax regime? we certainly need corporate tax reform, but we can look at multiple ways of how we construct our tax system in more jobs-creating an opportunistic way for the american family.

you won't find anyone on capitol hill who fought harder for the fundability of the tax credit for low-income families. senators now and i worked diligently on that for years in a bipartisan -- senators now and i worked diligently on that for years in a bipartisan way. there are single women raising children on less than $14,000 a year. they are working and raising kids and deserve to have the tax code work for them just as the tax code works for other people. but i just don't understand why we have to say we are either going to accept the bush tax cuts as they were. why not use the different times we are in right now? we are not operating in a surplus as we did when president bush proposed his tax cuts. we are operating in a totally different time. come up with the types of tax initiatives that we know are going to meet with the needs and demands of today at a better

way -- that's all i was saying. i don't think we have to be wed to former policies. we have to look at how policies affect the time and circumstances we find ourselves in now. host: to reset is and -- teresa is a democrat you're in columbia, ohio. caller: i would like to know why it everybody that comes on, they always cover each other's butts when it comes to congress. they know exactly what happens and where all the money has gone. when the bush administration was in office, right off the bat, when junior got in office, $3 trillion was missing. disappeared. why don't they just say the truth, what really happened to the money and why they are stealing from the american people, because all the secret

faculties and they have built that they don't want you to know about. everybody can understand everything that is going on if they would just do the research. that is all i have to say. thank you. host: response? guest: i just think the most important thing we have before us right now is that we live in a great nation, and it is our responsibility to do everything we can to strengthen it and make it stronger and more productive. i worked hard at in congress. democrats and republicans in congress today are working hard to do that. they may have different opinions. the most critical thing is that they come together in a bipartisan way to recognize the circumstances we find ourselves in and look for the solutions, and, again, put themselves to the test in those solutions. host: a viewer tweets --

you have to be careful about a national sales tax. it can be extremely regressive for the different levels of income, and certainly the circumstances that working families find themselves in today. the cost of living obviously -- if you are in the top .0%, in a foot brad, a sales tax on that is not as cumbersome c-span.org -- a loaf of bread it, a sales tax on that is not as cumbersome on you. host: we have about five, six minutes left with former senator blanche lincoln of arkansas. tulsa, margie, a republican. caller: good morning. first of all, my reason for calling is that i have been listening all morning to everybody that is on. i just get real upset with all of the negative rhetoric, rich

against poor. i was poor, raised a very poor person in arkansas, oldest in a large family. we worked our way out of it. i am not rich, but i'm comfortable. i like hearing all of this. i think it is tearing our country -- i don't like hearing all of this. that is tearing our country apart, demagoguing the rich. most of the people i know who have money and have worked hard for it. my husband and i worked hard for 8. we are not rich, but we really what we spend. words setke the bad against republicans by democrats, democrats against -- we are all americans. and i think we need to remember that on this fourth of july. i am in my seventies, but i am still smart.

we are studying the president's this summer. we are now up to fdr, during the period that i was born. you know, we have had these problems throughout our history. we have had presidents who have almost taken us down, then we get another one that people got smart, they'd vote for somebody, that will bring us back again. i think is what we all have to remember, stick with our country. there is an american dream. some people don't have it because they want to depend on someone else to take care of them all the time. i don't like what some people said to you this morning. i think you are very smart, i think you have been -- i have watched you, and watched you, as you said, " with republicans and the with democrats for what you thought was right. i appreciate you being on this morning and letting me talk to you. guest: thanks, margie.

thanks for being a good american and reminding us -- host: she is not giving her home-schooled granddaughter time off. a report card on how americans are doing with history will begin in about 10 minutes. raymond is a democrat. caller: i am also an independent. i vote both ways, i vote on the person. all the news on all the channels, i have never heard the perks that the big c e l's -- ceo's receive, or the golden numbers when they retire out. they are receiving millions in retirement, and that has been

reported. but they don't cover the major medical for the whole family while they worked at the company, dental and health care. they have a company credit card is a use for meals, gas, trips, even maintenance. they have cars that are either lease or given to them. even at what is not covered by warranty is covered by these credit cards. they can buy it later and sell it for profit. the company maintenance departments are painting these people's houses, doing their roofs, yard work, plumbing, electrical, brickwork. they pay for their vacations -- host: i'm going to jump in. wrap it up. what is your concern? caller: we lose it as millions

of dollars of tax -- host: ok, going to stop you right there. guest: well, one of the things we did it in the last congress is that we cannot control what corporations want to pay out in salaries to their executives or anybody. that is not something that congress is intended to do. but what we did do is we were able to bring down and limit a lot of that tax deductions for some of those benefits. we definitely saw that particularly in the health-care bill and some of the other efforts that we made, to ensure that they can still pay the bonuses and executive compensation, but the tax liability that had been exempt before was no longer exempt over a certain level. there has been some good initiatives there taken that have been intended to kind of

rain in some of that abuse or some of that excess that has been occurring. but you are good to notice that, raymond. host: reacto to mike murphy's tweet. guest: i don't blame him at all. going back to the question of the woman who wondered why i was -- she thought i was tap dancing a round of the bush tax cuts. i voted for it when we had a surplus. it is time to look at how we reform our tax code, particularly our corporate tax code. there is a great opportunity to change the way our corporations do business in the global economy. and to make sure that we see the benefit in our countries third job creation and investment in our economy. for personal taxes, we can look at that as well. but i don't see why we have to be wedded to things that happened 10 or 15 years ago and

continue to either continue those or pull back on them as opposed to looking at how we change to meet the needs of today. host: tennessee, vicki, republican. caller: good morning. i have watched c-span for a number of years. i have finally become totally , severely disabled for much of the disease, but i have worked all my life will ask what my doctors wanted me to work. i always believed i never taking, but trying to make it on your own. believe me, there are people who i think are born in poverty that cannot pull themselves out that we should help to a degree. but there are people who want to cry out there, "give me, give me, give me."

, is not passing anything goes back to the bush days when -- congress not passing anything goes back to the bush days when pelosi stood on tv -- i am choosing her, there were other people, mr. reid, dodd, but nancy pelosi in particular, stood on television and said "we are not going to help anything for mr. bush," or pass anything that bush had to say. i think this is a payback from the republicans and from the people. the people wanted the republicans in because the democrats were not going to do anything. now we are in a stalemate to where no one is going to pass anything that obama wants. i think it they are all going to bring us down. plus, many economists have said

because of the recession, who should have taken the first cut in their pay? it should at in congress. instead, they are getting pay raises. i mean, i agree wholeheartedly with the economists. you start of the top and give an example to your people. but congress has not. and to go all the way back to nafta that clinton -- he did not have a war during his years, but he put in nafta, and that started the economy going in the different direction. i'm not saying that there aren't jobs in the country and workers needed, but we didn't do anything about our borders because it was too good for the economy to get low wages and votes for what the democrats and republicans -- for both the democrats and republicans. they disregarded it and let them

steamroll in -- host: i am almost out of time and you are giving us a lot of complex issues here. naphtha -- nafta -- assessment of it and whether it is good for the economy. guest: i think it has been good for the economy. we were at a point where we had to engage with the global economy. it has been good in terms of exports, agricultural exports. we have to continue to engage in the world economy. free trade agreements like colombia, where they can ship goods into our country without any duties with the weather and yet we still remain in a position where anything going ism our country into there'irs not duty-free. i want to complement a lady from tennessee, though, because i appreciate her tenacity and hard work crew as the mother of twin 15-year-old boys who are starting to look for summer jobs, it is important to set examples. he set the example hard work and

what it means, and you have been respectful -- you set the example of hard work and what it means and you have been respectful to those who are not able to do that. i appreciate that. but we cannot -- some of what you said about democrats and republicans and the way that they flip-flop and argue in the congress -- it isn't any good to build yourself up by pulling someone else down. it is only through hard work and being able to focus on the the things that have to get salt and being willing to work with other people -- have to get salt and being willing to work with other people to solve those problems. i think what the lady from tennessee has done with her life is a good recipe for what we have here, to lift ourselves up and be part of the solution and not part of the problem. host: i'm to get a final call in, because it is from little rock. guest: 0, good.

caller: thank you for your service. guest: thank you, jack. caller: plato opined that once people figured out how to vote themselves benefits, they would lead to the collapse of the government. what blame to you cast in terms of the situation we find ourselves in? ever since the baby boom generation became a voting bloc, they have reduced their tax and put an increase to their benefits -- reduce their tax inputs and increased their benefits. it seems like you're beautiful twin boys will be in a bad situation, not because of congress, but because of congress' reaction to the public. what you think about that? guest: to some degree you are right. it is easy to get into a cell with most of what is it mean for me as opposed to what is in the -- for a s -- into a selfish

mode of what is it mean for me as opposed to what does it mean for future generations. as a young single woman in the house, i wanted to help build something and strengthen our country. now as a parent i wanted even more so, and i have tried hard in the senate to work at how to solve those problems for future generations. the decisions we take here -- i don't anymore -- the members of the house and senate take are going to have long-lasting ramifications for future generations. it is absolutely essential that we all, whether it is members of congress or those of us voting, i understand that it is one step at a time that we solve these problems. if we don't stay focused on it, if we are not willing to look at the future and think about others and see it as a

collected body of americans as opposed to have and have-nots, or what do i get out of it, it is possible we lose this precious gift of the nation that we have. i hope this weekend and on the fourth of july that -- this gentle man, jack will remember that there are tons of parades and lots of opportunities to get out and reminders of how blessed we are to live in this great country, but the responsibility that each one of us have to make a decision at the voting booth, making sure we send people to washington that are going to make tough choices but are going to do so in a forward-thinking why not just about what it means to their immediate circumstances. host: the senate majority leader announced that the fourth of july break for the senate has been canceled in the hopes of continuing to work on an agreement for the debt ceiling debate. i want to thank former senator blanche lincoln for being here

this morning to offer her observations on the continuing discussion and on her former colleagues in the senate. thanks. guest: thank you, susan. good to be with you. host: our final test is cornelia orr, director of the national assessment governing board. the focus is how our american students doing in the study of american history? we will be right back. >> "the supreme court" is available as the standard and enhanced e-book and tells the story of the court in the eyes of the justices themselves. 11 original is c-span interviews with current retirement justices. the new e-but it features an interview with the newest court justice, elena kagan. c-span's "the supreme court," available wherever e-books are sold. >> now available, c-span's

"congressional directory." inside, new and returning house and senate members with contact information, including twitter addresses, district maps, a committee assignments, and information on the white house, supreme court justices and governors. order online at c-span.org/shop. >> sundays on "in depth," linda hogan. her books focus on a native american and women's issues and the environment. join our three-hour conversation, taking your phone call, e-mails and tweets, for pulitzer prize finalist linda hogan. the c-span networks. we provide coverage of politics, public affairs, nonfiction books and american history. it is available on television,

on-line, social media networking sites. find our content online anytime at that c-span a video library. we take a c-span on the road with the bus, but in our resources to your community. now available in more than 100 million homes. created by cable, provided as a public-service. "washington journal" continues. host: our final guest this morning, friday, july 1, as will lead into the fourth of july, is cornelia orr, director of the national assessment governing board. our topic is how american students are doing in the study of u.s. history. let me show our audience the report that has just been put out by the national center of statistics, u.s. history 2010. it is available online, but would you give us topline results? how are american students doing? guest: well, they don't know very much about history, actually. less than 1/4 of them scored

with the board calls proficient or above. when i mention of the board, i mean the national assessment governing board, who sets the standards for achievement. host: why is this happening? guest: i don't know exactly why this is happening, but it has not changed much since 1994. we're seeing the improvement in the achievement off loaded -- proving of low achieving student -- we are seeing improvement in the achievement of low- achieving students. eight gray has shown significant gains. host: what has changed in the teaching of history since the mid-1990's, your reference point? guest: it is not necessarily our focus to dig deep into that. states have different policies for how they instruct history in the classroom. we do have a background questions on this instruction. we have not seen very much changed since 1994 in the way that history is being handled by

the teachers of the students we are assessing. that is what they report to us. host: how is the teaching of history covered by the no child left behind law? guest: it is not addressed specifically in the no child left behind law. it is only reading and mathematics every other year. there is no requirement for us under the no child left behind act to assess history. we do think it is important. the governing board thinks it is very important, an important construct, not only history, but six, geography, the arts -- but civics, geography, the arts, writing and science. host: an associated press story about this report says that "education experts say the heavy focus on math and reading under no child left behind has led to lagging focus on other

subjects, such as history and science." is your organization willing to make those conclusions? guest: we have not seen lagging performance. in fact, it is pretty stable. fourth crop i -- fourth grade is up since 1994, eight great is up since 1994 and also since 2006. lagging is not the term i would use. 12th grade is relatively flat. host: this sentence needs further explanation, to -- "of the seven it subjects on the national test, students performed worst on a history." what are the other subjects? guest: reading, math, writing, civics, geography, the arts. there is an assessment of the arts every eight years. host: for our viewers, american

history and why students may not be doing as well on this subject as on others. we have a line set up for teachers and students on this summer break, if you are at home and would like to join the discussion on how american history is taught and what we can do in the classroom to increase coverage and a knowledge of u.s. history. we will put four numbers on the screen -- but the phone numbers on the screen. we also have the twitter address and e-mail address where you can join us as well. i want to give the samples to people the kinds of questions asked at various grade levels. which grade levels to your test? guest: 4, 8 and 12. the national association for statistics partners with the national governing board. host: how many students are tested? guest: depends on the assessment on a national assaults, somewhere between its

7012 thousand -- 7012 thousand students -- 7000 and 12,000 students. the results are used in eight states to think about how history is being taught in the state --. used in the states to think about how history is being taught in the state. host: we will throw them out and see how he would do if you are taking the test as well. here is one from the fourth grade level. it is a map that is given to students in fourth grade. the data lines on the map of show major trade routes between asia and europe. what is one reason, is looked for new trade routes across the -- multiple -- what is one reason: this look for new trade routes across the ocean? guest: a good professional debate that goes into that -- we

begin by describing the framework for the assessment, what is the knowledge and skills of students that fourth grade -- students in fourth grade are expected to have? we build the framework and build these things in these ways. after the framework is set, then committees of educators come together, just as they did to develop the framework, to build the items and discussed them, what wording of the concept and fourth graders really understand. there is a lot of debate about wording there, but beyond that, it is mostly the professional judgment of educators. host: if the questions are not identical to ones that were administered in the past years of comparison, how can you draw comparisons with the results? guest: the national association of statistics have a sophisticated way of linking the results. some of the questions are the same from year to year, and those are used to link the performance over time host: are any effects on school funding based on the results of these

tests? guest: not on the federal level. we do not issue state results on history. but for reading and math, there are some state level implications because we do release state results for that. host: let's get to calls. the first is a teacher by the name of a gym in florida -- of jim in florida. caller: good morning. how are you doing today? guest: good morning. caller: it is more about statement. i am a father of five. a history of myself. i ascii to of my children when they are learning a -- in school i as -- i ask each of my children what they are learning in school about history. the response is the same, they just don't care anymore. to me it is a shame that they do not care where we came from or what we went through to become who we are today. that is, i wanted to make.

host: let me ask you as a teacher, where does the development of that interest come from in young person? caller: i'm sorry, say that again, please? host: where does the development of that interest -- you say they don't care, but is there a responsibility to nurture the interest, and if so, where? caller: i knew i do it from the home front. it should be more so in school than at home, but when you do have a combination of both, home and school, there should definitely be a peak of interest in our history. it still isn't there. fortunately, i have the opinion that a lot of things changed when morals in school change and we stopped doing the pledge of allegiance, when we stopped standing, using the word "god." that is when a lot of things changed. i know we could rant -- we could spread out different subjects on that, but unfortunately, over the last 10, 15 years, a lot of

things change in our school. society is causing changes in our schools. not necessarily the teachers, but to answer your question, ma'am, more directly, it is the responsibility of the school and the parents, not one over the other. host: jim, a teacher in florida. guest: i do want to say that the assessment we have and the teaching of history should not be bareboned fax. -- facts. the free markets of includes a section on historical knowledge and perspectives -- the frame works include a section on historical knowledge and perspectives, and it analysis and interpretation of history over time. the important thing about history is that we learn from it and do not repeat mistakes of the past. host: making it relevant to students of today. guest: exactly. host: atlanta. donald, who is a democrat.

caller: ok, thank you. a little bit of history -- i have been in the union all my life, i went to work in the automobile industry out of high school. every election cycle we have ever had, the union always sends me a letter and tells me who to vote for. after, what, 45 years, never once they send me a letter asking me who to support and what my point of view was on their position. it is hard for me to realize that they completely of my interest in mind. i feel like teachers unions doesn't support teaching our history as it has happened and for the good of our nation. it is more of a personal interest with the interest of the organization as a whole rather than society as a whole. host: thanks so much. comments on the teachers' union

and the quality of teaching. you want to get into that subject? guest: i don't, but i will say that the governing board feels that history is very important. we think it is an important part of a civic education that students study not only u.s. history, but civics and geography as well. host: how long as the governing board been around? guest: we have been out for 20 years. we are a bipartisan, independent board. we try not to be swayed by any partisanship issue. host: are members of the board appointed? guest: they are appointed, nominated for a sar process and sell -- let it by resum -- resumes are reviewed by board members and selected by it secretary of education. host: how long? guest: four years. each member is appointed for four years and can be appointed for a second term. host: do you have teachers? guest: we do.

we have a fourth grade teacher from los angeles, 12th grade teacher from maine, middle school teacher from iowa. host: here is another example of a question from national assessment. what role many colonial women played in the american revolution. the options are -- answer is c. washington, nancy, who is a teacher, you are on the air. good morning. caller: you mentioned the quality going down since the 1980's, i believe you said. when i went into teaching, what i was applying to do that, my brother, who wasn't teaching at time, it indicated that for history it was going to be difficult for a woman to find a job teaching.

those are primarily reserved for men, especially in the field of coaching. when i got into education, i found that to continue to be true, that there were an awful lot of films being shown and the quality of the teaching and even the interest in that continued. that was supported by the administration. i was wondering if you or wereng that that w-- there more women getting into the field at teaching methods were changing for history. guest: thanks for your question, but i don't really have any information about that. i do know that we collect information from all teachers to teach the students. but it is not background information on the teachers. host: pennsylvania -- an editorial just a couple of days ago. they remind us that congress is looking to reauthorize the no

child left behind law, elementary and secondary education act. "one needs to look no further than it the most recent round of international testing data for proof. topping the charts on the most recent math and science were students from china, while u.s. students were in the middle to bottom tears. pennsylvania students perform on par with students from spain and latvia and russia." how do international students fare with history? guest: the united states history tests we do or not replicated at the international level, but we are interested in learning more about how states are doing. in 2011, we completed an assessment of reading, math and science, and we will be linking that to the international assessment. we should have some very specific information about how it relates to that particular assessment.

host: it means what? guest: national assessment of educational progress. host: a teacher in maryland. caller: thank you for taking my call. i taught history at a college and university level from 1959 to 1975. over that time, i found that those who set the curriculum, especially in the public school system, devalued history because of turf wars, probably. my grandson, who is going to college year, wanted to at -- who is going to college next year, wanted to major in history, but he also said that included psychology and sociology and political science. the county in which i have taught for the longest required

the first half of american history in junior high school, and then allowed the student to pick from a smorgasbord of social science courses for the second half, thus cutting out everything that happened after the civil war, including the industrial revolution and all that followed from that. i think part of it is just the way in which history is presented to the students by the board of educations. guest: thank you for that comment. it is a local issue, how instruction is planned and implemented at that level. but our naep assessment that we are talking about today includes all periods of history, all the periods from colonization to the present day, for all grades, 4, 8 and 12. host: a sample question.

the final is the correct answer there. if people are interested in testing their knowledge, can they go to the website and take it there? guest: they can. nationsreportcard.gov. there is something called a questions tool. it will give them a sample questions that they can with themselves on. -- can quiz themselves on. host: i will go to a tweet next.

guest: i think they are very negative subjects. even reading skills can be integrated into the teaching -- i think they are very integrated subjects. even reading skills can be integrated into the teaching. host: next call. caller: i am a liberal democrat. why i stood is not educated? it is republican design grid they don't even no -- it is republican design. they don't even current day history. franklin roosevelt said, "republicans hate me, i welcome their hatred." truman said, " i will give them the truth and they will think it is hell." then you have people like blanche lincoln tried to get along with people against the truth.

we of people calling saying that the union is representing them, representing their interests. if people don't realize that unions are representing their interests self-evidently, we have a major problem. people can go to public libraries and get the guidance from school. this is a joke that people are getting paid too much. it is not too much, because the students and the union of all americans -- that is the most important asset we have trade i ramble, but i just wanted your thought -- most important asset we have. i ramble, but i just wanted your thoughts on that. guest: i have the highest respect for teachers. i think what they do is god's work, really. nobody on the board the values that, but we value the instruction and assessment of history. host: a tweet.

guest: the test we are talking about today. national assessment of educational progress and history, is not a multiple choice only test. many of the questions are instructive response, where students are expected to write some answers. and the report card that susan had on the screen earlier, there are samples of that more open- ended kind of question, and they are graded on a scale where there is a complete response and sometimes a partial response. host: dig a little deeper into the two findings of the report. scores increase since 2006 for black and hispanic eighth graders, and scores for male eighth graders have increased since 2006. guest: is not only the closing of the gap for black and

hispanic students, a very good news, but for all low-achieving students. they are going up in their scores. one other phenomenon we are seeing, and you highlighted it in eighth grade, is that male students consistently score higher than female students in u.s. history, and the gap did widen significantly since 1994 between males and females. host: this is hard, and merkel data. it doesn't tell you why -- this is hard, empirical data. it doesn't tell you why -- guest: that is correct. we leave it up to the researchers to build a little deeper and he-- delve a little deeper. there is data that can be available for secondary analysis. there is a lot of rich background question data that needs to be drilled down on just a little bit further. host: diane, texas, you are on

the air. caller: it is diane, but that is ok. i just want you now, being in texa -- want you to know, being in texas, i went to school in the 1980's and 1990's. we had the rollout of no child left behind, which failed disastrously. we had a lot of kids who were special ed and needed waivers, and we are penalized and fine for how many kids -- that went against taxes and the money was taken away from our allocated funds. my point would be this -- in texas, children are taught from a young age the parents' politics, and now we have parents going to school and people cannot let the president

talk to their children. nixon talked to me when i was in fifth grade. it was very benign. instead of raising americans, we are raising a little politician partisans. my nephew is 12, and for five years has be -- for five years he has been spouting george bush rhetoric, smoke 'em out, terrorists and all. we have to compete on a global scale with china and the european in, and we are one nation under god, indivisible, but we are under rick perry, and he wants to run for president -- host: let me just understand your concern, that it is 50 different states when we're trying to compete globally, is that the point?

guest: for each state to fall back on the 10th amendment of states' rights and not want to participate as one american, it is hard to have american exceptional some. -- exceptionalism. guest: i want to address one thing she said, about english-language and students with disabilities. we do as much as we can to accommodate as many of those students in the national assessment as we can, giving bilingual booklet for students who speak spanish, providing extra time and special group small settings. those are two of the most prominent comminations we use. but you are absolutely right. there are 50 states, and it is the state's responsibility to implement the curriculum. host: is there something that is confusing in policy direction where we have 50 states responsible for teaching and yet we teach at the national level? guest: i don't think so, because

congress is trying to get an answer to how students are doing in general. that is white they have given us this is brought a charge to address a variety of subjects -- this broad charge to address a variety of subjects. all of our assessments don't go down to the state of war, and that is a funding issue. -- the state level, and that is a funding issue. host: here is the question on frederick jackson turner from 1893.

that answer for that is? guest: a. [laughter] host: that is an example of what 8 bidders are being asked in this national assessment -- the raiders are being asked in this national assessment. guest: 12th grade. host: i'm sorry. geraldine, good morning. caller: i am a teacher and i have a love for history. since no child left behind, history and geography have gone on the back burner. it is all about language arts, math and science. if i remember correctly, what i was taught when i was young is that america went to school, thomas jefferson and the founders started the schools in america so people could participate in the government,

so they can learn the history and the facts and how the government operates. we don't do that today. i have a fourth grade class, and i teach them a social studies as much as i can, and i get them involved. this year we did the stamp act and the colonies. i had them tax each other and see what it looks like, so they can participate in the process. i think that is what the problem is not how we don't know enough about our history because we are pushing it on the back burner -- i think that is what the problem is. we don't know enough about our history because we're pushing it on the back burner. our forefathers wanted us to participate in the government and learn about our government. how can we make this as a country that history and geography is put back as just as important as all the other subjects? thank you. guest: thanks, geraldine, and thank you for what you do in the classroom every day and your

commitment to keep the emphasis and focus on social studies. i personally think that part of the purpose of schooling is for the civic education, and the governing board things that six, geography and history are important subjects to set -- that civics, geography and history are important subjects to track nationally. i hear what you are saying about the time and the emphasis that your state is requiring you to put on reading and language arts. however, i also believe that there are many rich history texts that can be used for developing reading skills. aysha encourage you to keep doing what you are doing, emphasizing social studies in -- i encourage you to keep doing what you are doing, emphasizing the social studies in the classroom. host: your biography suggests you spent much of your career in the area of accountability and testing. did you ever teach? guest: yes, although not in the

cast of class from. 12 t: > -- not in the k- classroom. host: how has teaching change? guest: reporting on the same scale over time, so that we can see progress over time, that has been the biggest scientific advance in my field. we would report on a percentage scale. you got 50%, 60% of the items. now we use something like scale scores so we can acquit them over time. if i were giving you a really hard test this year, i might give this to his next year are really easy test. if i reported on the percentage correct, that would not be the equivalent test. host: you were ask, what you do for european and russian students -- guest: we cannot translate into all those languages. if the student is new to the country, the board has adopted a

policy that after a year, they would be assessed and the assumption is that they would be receiving a year's worth of instruction in english. host: arlington, virginia, independent line. caller: good morning. based on the former speakers today, i want to bring the patient philosophers -- ancient philosophers plato and aristotle. they agree that it is very essential to understand the future and past to have a deep knowledge about humanity and the action of human beings. that is why it is very essential to learn the history, geography and the science. i think at this moment, we are lagging behind major industrialized countries because we start to teach other children just from american history. but back home, i was learning from primitive people, but all

the ancient civilizations, going through to europe is straight. -- europe history. that is how we understand and change the programs. the teaching of history have to be mandatory. you cannot just go at it choose which subjects in which school. we are competing in the global world economy, and it is very essential that we have a deep knowledge about geography, history, natural resources, how the human civilization was formed, how it developed, why. it is important for us to compete in the future. host: thank you very much. guest: thank you for your question. many states do have a requirement for world history. the governing board has considered an assessment of world history and is adding it to the schedule in the future. i don't remember the exact date when we will be assessing world history, but your points are all valid. host: i cannot call the tweet t

o read. "kids know all three 'american scotusudges but not one member." guest: i don't know specifically the coverage of scotus in the framework but i could look that up. we are seeing a clash of academic culture and pop culture. students choose pop culture over academic culture. host: san francisco. ken, republican. caller: thank you very much, c- span. i was very pleased to hear about the one-your language changeover. coming to this country, people need to learn english. not that other languages aren't great. my family has been here for 230 years, and i have trouble in

other countries -- and assimilated that have tr -- i have travelled in other countries and assimilated the languages. i would like to ask about your policy of for revisionist history teaching in schools. in 50 states, there are a lot of different textbooks, and they have, well, frankly, it incorrect information with political leanings left or right. what is your institution doing to deal with the issue of politically leading revisionist history that does not tell the truth? my last question is, a teacher credentials of versus parents' responsibility. when i grew up, my education relied more on my parents' ability to work with me rather than just relying on the teacher. it seems to me that without the parents, we are going to be in big trouble. it is not just a matter of money. what is your view on parenting?

thank you very much. guest: thank you, ken, for the question. i was not part of the framework committee, but i am sure they discussed your question of revisionist history. they probably also reviewed a lot of materials that were pulled together to build the assessment. this would be something that would be a continuing debate as items were developed. i do know that they are trying to be accurate as possible in the development of the framework and the question. that should allay some of those fears. another caller asked about the role of society and parents' involvement in education. i personally feel, although the board does not have a real stance on this, but i personally feel that it is the responsibility of not just the parents of the community to value education and encourage to do their very best and encourages schools to teach the curriculum that students need. host: here is just a comment, i

won't ask you to respond. talking about students' knowledge of history. next is a teacher in tuscaloosa, alabama. go ahead, john. not much time. caller: 0, hello. i was just calling to talk about the international comparison you cited. one other thing that is not slated to frequently is that the united states -- not cited too frequently is that the united states produces the vast majority of high achievement on these international comparisons. we tended to use these international comparisons it can dangerously -- a bi -- we attended tuesday's international comparisons -- to use international comparisons a bit tendentiously to promote charter schools. schools. in terms