carbon, we have to be able to work with rocks that look much like this one does. this is the rock that comes from early earth, almost 3 billion years old. it tells us all lot about the early environmental evolution of earth, to really the rise of oxygen on earth. these layers are the things we're interested in. this started out as sedimentary particles. those when the sentiment becomes a hard rock, all the organic becomes destroyed. we almost never see organic culture preserved. it's a good to the next one, what we can see in the slide is

the rover itself. you can see the instruments we have been to before. i want to skip to the next one. what you can see is where we land and the images that dawn was showing. this is called a luvial fan. we think water was running along and moving sediment particles. we do not know how this is formed. it looks very special. it is one of the things that uniquely goes with the site. then we can drive out and go out to where it says "clays," which is one of the minerals that is formed with water. that patch of green is a place that we would study. then we would go to where it says "sulfates," another kind of mineral.

we are exploring a geological environments that consists of a stack of layers that tells about the environment. when we skip to the next one, why do these layers matter? this is the history of geological exploration on earth. 150 years ago, when the first explorers went down the colorado river and discovered the grand canyon, they discovered all of these layers of rocks. what we have learned since then is that, if you start from the bottom of the pilot leaders and you go to the top, it is light reading a novel. we think this will be a great novel that offers the evolution of mars, with strong prospects eventually and maybe even a shot at potentially discovering organic compounds. find those don't organophosphates, what we learn about things like grand canyon is have a history and environmental conditions change

onerous. let me finish with the last one. this is what it will look like as we go through the map. we will start out. the first chapter is what we have in the landing, which looks exciting already. then we will go towards the green star. that is where the clay minerals are forming the layers. when we're done with those, we will go into the third chapter and look at these sulfates where the yellow star is. after we're done with that, we can go to the top. now we have gone through hundreds of meters. just with the opportunity rover, we have gone about 20 meters of rock. what we see in this image as hundreds of meters of rock. we have that many more pages to read in this book of the early environmental history of mars. in addition to these minerals that we can see, which gives us a lot of excitement for the site, is the next thing. the blue star we can see from

orbit. it has been observed elsewhere on mars. we see these fracture systems. they occur all over mars. in some places, they are spectacularly developed. deal craters one of them. they're not down at the bottom of the mound. their 100 meters up the story of environmental evolution to and it makes a line. notice that there is a dark line right in the middle on the side. -- down the middle and two white lines on the side. water fill in with minerals and that is the kind of thing that we think is a great prospect for uninhabitable interment. to summarize, we have many attractive possibilities. we think it hashas high diversity. it is possible that some of those might sustain organic

carbon. >> if the media has questions, they can come to the microphone. then we will go to the phone lines. i want to remind you that you can find all this information on www.nasa.gov/msl. there is an incredible google mars site. i want to thank all of the folks across this great country and worldwide were working on this mission. particularly the folks at the kennedy space station who will take us back to mars. leeson gentleman. [applause] -- ladies and gentlemen. [applause] okay, let's go to the phone line with irene. irene, with reuters. we will come back. go ahead, eric. give your name and affiliation. >> some people in your son's

team are saying that this could even be a bathtub that was once filled all the way to the top with water. others are worried that maybe some of these wateree signs could just be easy these watery signs could just be -- these watery signs could just be something else. >> we will get answers to questions you're asking. right now, we have apostasies -- we have hypothesis. we can make estimates of the where water may have been present in. in the year that we arrive at the gail landing site, we continue to refine our hypothesis and come up with particular observations.

the question of how much water may have been there, there may not be one answer. there could be multiple answers. the reason why this is attractive is that there could be multiple scenarios in which water would have been present. at this time, we do not know how much would have been there. >> tony reichert, "aerospace magazine." have you started to map out how you actually climb the mountain to the first order? that is a three-mile high mountain. i realize the relief is exaggerated their. >> it is a three times vertical exaggeration. we're committing only to climbing the lower bottlpart of. one thing we did to confirm the site as being viable from an engineering perspective was that we conducted a study by a subset

of people on the team and within the project who were charged with the responsibility of finding out if we could actually drive there. we get together with some of the engineers and a handful of scientists to try to drive this terrain. do not forget that this high- rise cameras incredibly valuable. you can see this table from orbit. that means you can look up accurate models in a dance of arriving there and drive them across the train and make sure we can do it. we had multiple paths that we found we could get through those layers. >> if you were to get to the summit, can you guess how long that would take? a full year? >> no, no. where the blue stars, that would take two years to get there. the warranty expires then. but if history is the predictor of the future, we expect to have some future life left to go.

if we were to go on for 10 years, we could just -- it will take years to get to the top if it is possible. >> one of the issues was how long spend on the scientific investigation. it is not just a matter of engineering capabilities of driving. it is the fact that this is a rich sweet of things to look at. you can look at characterizing where you are and going to see the next thing. that is a very exciting part of the mission. >> [unintelligible] >> in some ways, we would generally be climbing in about 20 degrees. that is comparable in slow capability. it has similar ground pressure

-- slope capability. it has similar grant pressure. >> we will take one more question and then we will go to the phones and wrapup. >> i had a similar question about time frame. how quickly will you be getting information back from this mission? do you really think this will be going on for 10 years? >> we will see what happens. we have planned for a two-year mission. we understand we can achieve the principle signs goals and create hypotheses. after that, we will just have to see. but the point that she made it was a good one. if we can land and finding that some incredibly interesting and

want to spend six months on a, we will. we can analyze a number of rocks and drive a certain amount of commuters. we are in the phase where we're doing to scientific exploration and we will test hypotheses. when we are satisfied, we will move on. our hope is that, our plan going into this is that we will get to the base of the mound. that is their target. >> let's go back to the phone. irene? >> thank you very much. can you hear me? >> yes, go ahead. >> i have two questions. maybe someone can talk a little bit about [unintelligible] >> i will take a crack at it. it was really difficult. one of the things we did was have a meeting of the mars

science laboratory space team. and with the investigators involved in the mission. we ended up with two front runners. one was the first french and the gail crater. there is a slight preference for gail. there was a real preference in that it is not one trick pony. as we saw from this pot today, there are different in terminal settings that can be explored. anyone may have the possibility for observing some organics. you do not have to have the scientific hubris of thinking that you know exactly where to go or what mineral to target.

you have the choice of several different things. if one does not work, perhaps the other one gives you the great payoff. >> ladies and gentlemen, i will have to jump in here. we are out of time. this room has to be configured for the mars they could how to tell media here and on the phone that these folks will be available: this press conference. i want to thank you all for joining us. we want to think the museum for hosting us. when it comes to mars, science never sleeps. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> next, a discussion on job growth in america, then highlights from nasa's final shuttle flight. after that, details on nasa's unmanned mission to mars. >> it takes a month -- is behind

us? look. c-span's original documentary, "the library of congress, behind the scenes of the world's largest library," sunday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> following a morning meeting with president obama, house speaker john boehner met in the afternoon with senate and house leadership from both parties. in remarks were made following the meeting. but the speaker said he hopes to have a deficit reduction proposal ready on sunday. meanwhile, on friday, i was senator tom harkin says he wishes president obama was bolder in addressing unemployment. lawmakers joined with the task force on job creation to review and report on u.s. manufacturing and the impact of spending cuts on jobs. this new america foundation event is one hour 25 minutes. >> the unveiling of the report

by the task force on job creation, the new america foundation. introducing one of the authors of the report will be congressman john garamendi, who is to my right. he was elected in 2008 to the house of representatives. he serves on the house armed services and natural resources committee. in four decades of public service, he has served as a member of the california legislature as lieutenant governor of california, the california insurance commissioner, the chair of the commission for economic development, as well has having been a former peace corps volunteer, serving abroad had helping to negotiate a peace treaty during the ethiopian air train war.

he is a man of many talents. today, we will be focusing on jobs. congressman germany. -- congressman garamendi. thank you very much. this is an issue that is of profound importance to this . we set out to look at what was going on and how we could be competitive. the report said there were five things that california needed to do to stay competitive. one, have the best education system in the world. no. 2, do the best research in the world, make the things that come from the research, pay attention to infrastructure, and

do not forget about the international. well, here we are. 1979, just as we were doing that, we had 19.4 manufacturing -- 19.4 m million manufacturing jobs in united states. there were about 2.6% of the american economy. fast forward, all those years in california, where we neglected education and did not pay much attention to research, never bothered to manufacture anything because we were going to be a service economy, time runs on. 2010, america, 11.5 million manufacturing jobs, some are just over 10% of the economy. whao, something has gone wrong here. and it is not getting any better. yesterday, one of those groups that tend to want to see what congress is up to stop by. this is solar world's little pamphlet that the left with me. but they also left was of the

really scary. the president of it was there and he said that energy security, we have been worried about energy security, or real security -- we know our future is in the hands of the petrol dictators and very unstable prices in the world. energy security. he said, " do you know that the green technologies that we are so dependent upon for our energy in the future will be controlled by countries in asia ?" what are you talking about? he said you need to know that there is one company manufacturing solar cells in the united states. all of the solar cells are being manufactured in asia. how about wind and wind turbines? on and on it goes. the report you will see today is of utmost export -- but most importance to this nation. it calls to this nation about a

very important fact, that we're losing it. we're losing our ability to make things in america. as we lose that ability, we will lose their leadership in the world, our national security will be at risk, and we will not have the kind of wealth that we need to maintain the middle- class in america. fortunately, there are people that are thinking about this. i have the great honor of introducing one of them. leo hendry, jr. is at the new american foundation. he is a member of the council for relations. he is an investor in things that are supposed to make a lot of money and create a lot of jobs, he hopes. and we hope he does, too. he is a former ceo of tci, liberty media, and their successor, at&t broadband. he knows what it is to be in the business world. he is also a blogger.

he is a "huffington post" blogger. [applause] >> senator tom harkin, we just had a vote on the floor and turn down the deficit cap that came over from the house. >> wanted to do with it, tom? >> he tabled that sucker. [laughter] i will quickly turn it over to senator harkin didn't let me just say that one of the reasons it is such a privilege -- senator harkin. let me just say that one of the reasons it is such a privilege, rep garamendi was my legislator and my insurance commissioner. at no point did anybody in the city california ever speak more eloquently about creating jobs,

preserving jobs of quality for the american worker then john garamendi. later in life, i became a transplant to iowa. was part of the harkin for president initiative when it was popular. on the senate side, it is tom harkin who has carried the mantle for so many years. it is a privilege for all of us who had something to do with this commission task force to have rep garamendi and our dear friend tom harkin with the skin tom, some comments from you and then i will be a little more precise about the report. >> thank you very much. i apologize for being late. i did have that vote. how did you get here so quickly, garamendi? you do not do anything. [laughter] that is probably good. that is probably for the best.

we did just turn down that cut, cap, and kill medicare. it is not really a cut appeared in it is an invitation. it is not really a cap. it is a decapitation of our federal responsibilities. first of all, thank you for mentioning my presidential race. some of you may have missed it. [laughter] i appreciate him mentioning that. let me sum it up this way. the debate that is going on right now is like deciding which train to take and you are on the wrong track. we're trying to decide whether to take the train on the $4 trillion cut or the $3 trillion cut. that is the wrong track to be on. what should be doing right now to stimulate job creation in our society? [applause] that is why this task force is

so important at this time. there are two ways of creating jobs. the private-sector could spend the money that it is sitting on to create those jobs, but it is obviously not doing it. or the febrile government needs to get the wheels going to stimulate demand. i hate to use the word "massive stimulus" but an infrastructure- type program. where does the government get that money? either you are with or you raise the revenues. i say you raise the revenues. if the private sector is sitting on a trillion dollars and they do not want to invest it, then we can. and that is where we need to raise the revenues to do so.

this task force has come up with ideas on that. i have ideas of my own. but there is plenty of revenues to be raised out there. it raises the revenues and then you stimulate the economy by putting it into both human infrastructure and the physical infrastructure of our country. to me, if we did that in a very bold manner, a big manner, you then start to create a demand. the demand comes up and you put people back to work. that would tell the markets out there that we are moving ahead aggressively and boldly. we are not shrinking. we're not retracting. but we will expand and grow and that would stimulate further private investment. that is why i say that we are on the wrong track. we're arguing about these things. it is dismaying to me to see a president of the united states from my party who seems to

except the fact that we are on the wrong track. -- seems to accept the fact that we are on the wrong track. i was hoping he would be more bold on the jobs creation effort. ron wyden gave a great speech on the senate floor. i was talking on this very issue. we need more people talking about it. that is why leo, hugh, and a task force and what you have been doing here, we have to be focusing on the single most important thing, putting people back to work, not reducing the deficit. that can come later. but to cut spending now is like putting leeches on a 6%. you will just bleed them more and make them more sick -- beaches on a sick person -- leeches on a sick person. you will just leave them more and make them more sick.

that is a formula for a downward spiral. leo, thank you very much for your great leadership. i think the task force on job creation. i read it through. you are on the right track. >> thank you, tom. [applause] >> let me add some quickest or zero perspective. what will be fun is -- michael is such a front of this initiative, we will ask for your support and questions as well. this actually began in 2006. it began with tom harkin. we were running up to the iowa caucuses of january 2008. in 2006, we saw that the uncounted unemployed women and men in this country for the first time were breaching a 30% cap that had been on every prior recession. in the worst recessions, the nine prior recessions as we were running up to them, the

uncounted unemployed was never more than a third of the counter. we have reached that early in 2006. we knew that, by iowa, something dramatic was happening. that dramatic outcome is that we have one woman or man who is unemployed and not counted for every man or woman that is. guidance as the senior senator from the state of biowatch and the run-up, we established the first of these task forces. it was called d horizon projects. the women and men named in the task force were involved in that initial effort it was taught and others who suggested -- it was tom and others who suggested that we create a prescription to generate jobs. we knew we are committed as a

party and as progresses to pay- go. we could not always impose on the government to have these initiatives undertaken. we would come up with ways for paying for these initiatives. if, hypothetically, the senate and the house tomorrow were to pass $3.20 trillion in cuts, we can prove that 1.8 million additional jobs would be lost almost instantly. so we would be digging the hole infinitely deeper. it was 29.5 million men and women we are concerned about and it would reach up to 30.3 million. as a party, we are committed to thoughtful cuts. we're also committed to responsible revenue raising. we have worked with our leaders on that aspect as well. when the task force was coming

together, it instantly migrated to the reality that we have to have a list 20% to 25% of men and women in this country making something. we can only survive bubble-to- bubble and we know that bubbles killers. we know that we have an unfair trade balance with china. $260 billion, consistently, year after year, in manufactured goods. they have roughly two. half -- they have roughly two $0.5 billion. we know that the cost differential between a manufacturing goods in china and its counterpart here in the united states is accomplished through subsidies can we have

pointed to many vendors at american workers -- which many fingers at american workers and said it is your fault. it is your wages that cause these problems. that is not the case. it is unfair trade that is destroying this country. we know that the business community is sitting on its hands. with the senator was describing is that they need a free-market policies that induced the behaviors and the outcomes that will restore the economy. we are genuinely at a tipping point. we are right on the edge of no senator or no member of congress being able to fix the problems. there are 15 prescriptions in the task force report. we are not 90s and think that they will be instantly enacted. they're written by our colleagues that -- we are not naive in thinking that they will be instantly enacted. they were written by our colleagues.

nobody speaks to it more ably than our two members. the national injured -- and need a national infrastructure bank. it needs to attack the $3 trillion of decrepit infrastructure we have that this has not only forestalled full employment, but has naidas increasingly uncompetitive in the global economy. we are fully prepared, anxious to see credits go there. those that are responsible to the community to bring manufacturing where it belongs. we are partners in the green economy initiative. we are particularly sensitive to these men and women who are 50 and older. i think something on the order of 13 million men and women have been an unemployed for more than a year. these are numbers you do not see publicly. there are at least 8 million to 9 million of them who are 50 years and older.

about 5.5 million of them are 18 and older. some have a college degree and cannot find a first job print some have a high-school diploma and cannot find a first job. the manufacturing renaissance would be the best thing that could happen to the older worker and a youth employment initiatives for the younger worker. finally, it is china. china is the dragon in the room, not the girl appeared it cheats and it cheats everyday. -- not the guerrilla. -- not the gorrila. it sheets and it sheets every day. 0 and speaks more deadly than i do anybody else to manufacture speaks more ably than i

do for anybody else to manufacturing. michael, we thank you for your leadership in introducing it. thank god you got out of that fort, tom. >> thank you, leo. this does have the feel of being an alternative reality in this room, discussing what most economists consider to be the critical problems in the american economy while, on capitol, they are discussing how to further hurt the jobs picture.

there is no real liber discussions, as far as i can tell -- no real vibrant discussions, as far as i can tell. we have now had a generation, maybe a generation and a half since the reagan years, of a set of policies that has pretended to support the american medical costs -- the american middle class and allowed the world to consider them as the consumer of last resort while policies have, in a termite fashion, have been undermining the middle class in so many ways.

of course, the real lesson of the giant crisis in 2008 was that it was all an illusion. the american middle-class was sustained by enormous amounts of debt, debt that was promoted and encouraged in many ways by government policies as well as by wall street. what we see now in this long aftermath, two years after the recession supposedly ended, but still feels like one, is basically an inversion of that junk credit bubble going on in the 2000's. we are in the middle of what some economists say is perhaps the worst recovery on record. leo alluded to this earlier. and even scarier figure in some ways than the official unemployment rate, which is 9.2% -- although the actual unemployment rate is much higher -- is the number of americans who have ventured to the ranks of the long-term unemployed or the permanently unemployed.

if you look at the bureau of labor statistics data, it is released it -- it is really scared. in the previous recessions, you do not see the figures that we see now, something like 43% of the unemployed in 2010 were unemployed for 27 weeks. many of them are for more than a year now. we do not have policies in place to try to bring them back, to get them trained, to give them the skills, to give them the work. this jobs report, and this task force report on job creation could not come at a more important time. it notes that it has probably not been since the great depression that so many americans have been unemployed for so long in a supposed recovery.

more than 20 months, i think it says. with that, let's begin the discussion, not only of the specific proposals laid out here, but of their political liability. i think that is very much the question at hand. because of what is going on, because of the kind of debate and discussion on capitol hill, seemingly divorced from the economic crisis we are facing, and what can the president do? what can the congress do in terms of these kinds of these proposals? we have already had partial introductions. leo, senator harkin, as well as the congressman, cheryl swing ttenger, another author this report. we also have one of the founders of the group and the founding editor of "the world policy journal." patrick malloy has served four-

year terms on the u.s.-china economic and security commission -- four two-year terms of the u.s.-china economic and security commission. we will want to hear from him a lot about the china trade issue. was that, why do we not start the discussion? how will like to start off by asking what do think of these kinds of proposals being laid out in this report or that are politically feasible at this point? i would just throw that out there. what do you think is politically feasible in this kind of environment? >> politically feasible? [laughter] >> ok, next question.

>> i kind of alluded to it in my opening statement. political feasibility depends upon political leadership here in political leadership comes about from individuals who have a deep feeling for and an intellectual concept of what is happening to our society at large. if a political leaders this to you that our unemployment is 9% and does not mention the 18%, they do not have a firm grasp of what is happening in our society. if it political leaders says, gee, we just have to have more of these free trade agreement because it will help our country and help employment, then they do not have a firm grasp of what has happened in the past for

these free trade agreements. politically feasible depends upon political leadership. i am not in the mode of bashing president obama or anything like that, but i think the times call for bold innovative the ship on the part of the president of united states -- innovative leadership on the part of the president of the united states. if we do not have that, it comes back down on our side, on the congress, and we take our excuse from our constituents in many ways. we lack the kind of cohesion we need for political leadership. i think we need a strict examination. this is getting a little bit off. but we need a really good examination of how we went, in the short span of a little over two years, from a president elected with a huge mandate -- a

huge mandate -- with a progressive mandate, and a promise that was run by good progresses in the house and in the senate where we had 60 votes and now to a congress yanked around by the tea party on the house side and where we have 53 votes on the democratic side on the senate and come out of that, you have four or five that are wobbly in the knees on a lot of issues? how did that happen? how did that happen in two years? we have to examine that. we have to look at that and find out why we have gone this far in the last two years. i believe it is because we have not paid attention to the underlying real problems in america, which is the jobs issue. especially among young people. read the part in this report

were talks about how young people cannot find a job. they have been educated and they cannot find a job. that hangs around not just for a couple of years but for the rest of their lives. that is one of the most debilitating things that happens in our society today, the lack of jobs for young people. i will get off my thing. >> fed think it is important to understand that politics is not static and that economic realities will ship politics in the next six months. those economic realities are pushing a closer and closer to an echo recession, and additional major downdraft in the economy that we see it showing up in all of the data currently and all of the underlying factors are moving us toward retesting and potentially pushing us toward a new financial crisis as well.

given the ongoing exposure by the government and the banks to a double-dip in the housing crisis, this has now been caused by unemployment by the or original bubble. i think it would be a mistake to assume that the static picture we are seeing in the lead up to the debt ceiling will be the politics that dominates the discussions six months to nine months from now. we have to play a role in redefining that. but, after the initial euphoria that might take place in the of the debt reality i deflation that is taking place in the u.s. economy, that will grip large parts of europe, the slowdown that is taking place in asia and emerging economies will be the dawning reality.

you can interpret them in no way that will give us another opportunity. what is important, what leo has done with his leadership, is to when us a platform i that opening reemergence in six months to nine months. we're not in a static political environment. we are in a dynamic political environment because we are in a very serious economic situation that will impose realities on the political leadership in a new way that you have not seen in the last six months. >> congressman? >> the american public wants a job. that is what this is about. they want a job. they want to go back to work. they want to support their family. they want a job. and it is incumbent upon all of us who think we're in pollocks and want to be political leaders

to develop a jobs program, something that will create jobs and unnecessary in america. i agree when you talk about it switching. it will switch from this deficit, which is really important, but is not the central issue. the central issue is for people to work. we tried to develop in the house a "make it in america" agenda. it is a piece of the puzzle. there are many different bills involved in it. some of them are what is involved in this proposal. but we need an overarching program that puts us partly -- where did my little book of? here it is. it is this kind of thing. we need a comprehensive jobs agenda, something that speaks to all of the pieces in the puzzle. then the senate and the house has to put together the pieces of legislation that cause it to happen. senator harkin, you could not be more correct. there is something about this

that is missing, which is the leadership. there has to be a voice that makes this a reality. as we go through the rest of this we can talk about the individual pieces, as we should, in this report are the elements of a successful program. there are some that could be added and some may be subtracted a long way. but we have to have that overarching message to the american public's and programs beanie set that can actually create the opportunity for this economy to turn. i like this. i really like what you have done here. hopefully, we can grasp it and say let's run with this. i would love to put this in the president's hand. he was in maryland talking with a bunch of students. he was here and there and everywhere, but not one mention about a job. how will we do that? you have given us an answer. >> from what we can tell, tom

and john, within your congress, there are three places that there seems to be an inordinate sentiment to do something. buy american, we call it sometimes. you would have an incentive this as well. but the currency bill aimed at china is certainly the biggest of the several subsidies that are killing us. the 90% subsidy world that i described, roughly a third of it is currency. the rest we know to be taxes, environmental study, finance, and so on. john, i certainly detect within your members, almost in a bipartisan fashion, support for china's currency, national infrastructure bank. it is hard to go home to iowa

and california and say that buy american does not make sense. >> it is in the defense bill. within in the stimulus bill with the high-speed rail. not one rail company in america -- when that bill was passed and $12 billion put up there, they all rushed to establish manufacturing companies in america. it works. if you will use our tax dollars to go green and put up the solar or the wind, then you will buy american. why should we use tax dollars to buy chinese solar panels? it makes no sense to me. >> how about your big rich? [laughter] >> it does seem as if, if anything, the politics, as dynamic as they might be and i agree that the me going in the opposite direction -- i am talking about presidential

politics -- it seems as if the political strategy of the administration seems to be to avoid discussion of jobs or unemployment. let's talk about some of the specifics if we can. patrick, maybe you can talk a little bit about the day china trade issue, the environment for getting comfortable with china. >> i am a member of the u.s.- china economic review commission. this is like the bipartisan congressional think tank on china. republicans and democrats see it exactly right. i am a member of the commission, but i am not speaking for the commission at this time. everything we do is on our side. let me quickly go through this. in the last 10 years, the united states has run $6 trillion worth of trade deficits.

we have run two dollars trillion in trade deficits with china. when it -- we have run $2 trillion in trade deficits with china. most of our imports with china are manufactured goods been 60% of their goods are made by foreign investment companies. when you ship your manufacturing abroad, that is tied to a budget deficit. revenue that used to be produced here, goods that were produced well here are now being produced abroad and imported into the country. people that used to have good jobs in this country and paid taxes are no longer paying taxes. we are putting money into keeping them going through unemployment and other things. i have watched this debate going on in congress and i have not heard anyone tying the budget deficit to the trade deficit. the american people know that

something that has happened. they always talk about the fact that you go to a store and you cannot buy anything made in america. china was a great civilization. they fell apart. the communists took control and tried to build a centralized economy under mao tse-tung. in 1979, he said we need foreign investment, foreign technology, foreign markets. that is the way we will build what he calls china's comprehensive national power. they do not just talk about their economic power. they use a term called "comprehensive national power." it means political, military command economic. and it is all based on economic. they are growing very rapidly. i do not mean to be a china venture. i am not. i went there first in 1981 and saw a very poor country. you go there now and you see a prosperous and booming country, at least for the 300,000 of the

1 billion people. there are our country's to outsource production to china instead of contributing to job growth in this country. there contriving to job growth in china. there are various things that we could do and we talk about that in the report. our guys get a tax break for building jobs abroad. they do not have to pay taxes on the money that they earn. is that a crazy policy or what? we talk about that in the report. china underprices its currency and the imf, just yesterday, said that the chinese currency is substantially undervalued. what does that mean? when we ship a good to china is far more expensive. when china ships here, they get an export subsidy. instead of building production here, american companies build them in china and ship it back here. that is part and parcel of what is happening here.

there is something that is called indigenous innovation. when china joined the wto. the used -- the wgo, they said to american companies that, it you want the china market, you have to make products in china. but here's the way they do it. they tell american companies, if you want to sell to the chinese government, you have to be on this list of companies or, if you want a list to our market, you have to be a friend of china and europe to do r&d in china. so our technology, -- and you have to do r&d in china. so they're getting our technology and know-how in china through what they call indigenous innovation. that is contrary to their wto obligations. what do they say to defend it? they say they are not forcing the companies. it is not forced technology.

we tell them that if they want to be a friend of china and make money in china, they have to do it here. but we can incentivizes game. we have to get our house in order and we incentivize our guys. there are all kinds of things we can do. we should not let this go on because of our children's future is being sacrificed. >> the challenge the seem to be to try to package a this competitiveness strategy, but does not run afoul on free trade. certainly, 11 proposals like this run aground because they are perceived as protectionist. the key seems to be selling it, about the right kind of

leadership. what do you think about that? are we able to move beyond this adoration of the free-trade dogs? this goes back to nafta and everything else. do not get me started on that. >> but it is time to replace those debates. when did become wrong to protect america? i don't get it, particularly when the policies of the last 20 years to 30 years are exactly the opposite. they do not protect america. they harm america.

you look at the policies. why do we reward american companies with a lower tax if they offshore jobs. not one republican voted to repeal that. there is still more that is in the tax policy that literally rewards the of shoring of american jobs. what is wrong with protecting american jobs? we ought to adopt the policies that the chinese have adopted. what is wrong with that? if it is good for the chinese and they are able to do away with it under the wto, we should be able to, too. 18.5 cents every gallon of gas, at 25.5 cents for diesel. out of every gallon you buy goes out there to buy what? yes, i had nothing to do with the bay bridge. it was a horrible mistake to

save 10% and then they went off to buy chinese steel. thousands of jobs are in china and not in california, not in america. at the end of the day, it turned out to be more expensive. >> one of the things that the congressman is striving to is that, if you take the 15 proposals we have, within the g- 20, you can 5 counterparts in 19 of the g-20. -- you can find counterparts in 19 of the g-20. some have domestic policies that are multiples of what we have today. what little we have today is only because of people like john garamendi and tom harkin. if they can do it, let us do it. tom harkin was the architect of

the term "fair, not free" on trade. these two members know that 11 of them have failed to deliver their promise. they have not created jobs. they have not improved the trade balance. at the same time, we look at the three on the table and we find them similarly faulty. it is not fair trade. fairm sorry, it is not trade, it is free trade. >> i have been covering this for a couple of decades. i have watched these proposals flounder, getting back to this idea -- i guess my question is isn't this really the moment where four ideas like this -- we

have seen this absolutist ideas of free trade and how it was supposed to raise all votes. particularly american votes. it was supposed to be good for america. the results are in. i am wondering why the political environment has not changed more than it has. even accounting for the distractions called by the rise of the tea party and the all- embracing focus we see now on cutting the budget, i am not sure why some of the underlying economic thinking has not changed versions of these proposals have been out there for a while. it seems that now, more than ever, it is their moment. >> is there one sector of the american economy that has not suffered as of this so-called free trade and the huge trade imbalances that we have? what sector mind talking about? the financial sector. the financial sector has not

suffered a new bid. they have actually made quite a bit on this. the data and the facts are in over the past. you have a huge sector that has a lot of influence in congress. they like things just like they are. they're doing quite well, thank you, in the financial sector. that is what has happened in our society. .

when migration was freer than it was. now you have an unequal situation in a fundamental sense. >> if i might take the recommendations in this report and apply them to the thing i showed a while ago, which was sun world. sun world manufactures solar panels. it's the only domestic manufacturer of solar panels. president comes in and wants to talk and says, we have problems. we have 18 months and we're going to have to make a decision to go out of business in america. okay, why? i ask and he says, a, china

currency. it happens in your report you speak to china currency. you speak to that issue and you've talked about it and we can come back to it. b, you need to understand the way in which china is financing the businesses in china. chinese government that finances the business with loans that are not available anywhere else, or at least in america, super cheap loans, loan rates and obligations that are unavailable. literally free money available to those companies. he said, and then you've got the issue of make it in china policy. he said, we can't compete with that and we're going to have to make a decision to shut down our manufacturing in america. what does that mean? let's see, california 86.8 million. let's see, iowa on this list? i don't see it, tom. hang on. massachusetts, texas, oregon, on

and on and on, gone. jobs gone because of the international -- for the lack of american policy. you speak to each of these things in this report. so buy this, how would we apply it? what would we do? >> john, i think there is only, correct me if i'm wrong, only two, maybe three manufacturers solar panels left in america. >> one. >> oh, just one? that's the last one? >> that's the last one. we are the ones that develop silicon chips and did the research. i was on the science and tech committee in the '70s and '80s, we were putting your money, taxpayer money, into the development of this technology. the basic research and getting it developed and yet it has all gone offshore now. >> john, let me be more specific. this is the only company that does all of it in america. other companies may assemble pieces in america, but this is the only company that does all of it from making the crystal to the wafer to the cell and the

panel and the whole thing. >> well, michael, i think it starts and stops with do we want to have a national manufacturing policy or not. the other 19 members of the g-20 have such policy that is specific. china is the most specific by far. but it would not tolerate a circumstance where only eight or nine percent of american workers are then in the sector. it would not tolerate a world where small and medium-sized enterprises can't get loans. it would not tolerate a world where china on that plant that the congressman referred to, got its sites, gets sites for free, construction loans for free. it gets tax holiday and dumps av fluent and emissions into the air. that is the competitor for the plant that the congressman is describing. it starts and stops with can we as a nation survive much longer

with eight or nine percent of women and men making something. if you think you can, you can't. then you have to go to where would we most immediately see a manufacturing renaissance and that is in the $3 trillion of decreped infrastructure. you would have the policy first, michael, and then the kick in the pants, the opportunity would be in our own infrastructure until we got this thing balanced. >> which is your number one recommendation in the task force report. i wonder whether you would talk a little bit about that in the other recommendations. are these in order of importance or feasibility or -- >> no, they're not. i do think the group felt very, very strongly about two issues. one is the bank. i'm sorry, three. bank coupled with buy domestic and harsher perspective on china trade.

let me digress, tom, if i can on the bank. the bank must be a bank. it must have an equity capitalization accompanied by a debt capitalization. when you go to the white house and talk about the bank, they talk about diminimus amount of money in block grants. yet, we know from the senator's work and the congressmen, we know in calper's an example, we know from the wonderful treasurer of the state of california, that calper's, the largest pension fund in the world, would love to have an investment opportunity in a national infrastructure bank to be the leverage for that bank. it's a superb idea. the members of the senate and house focused on the issue appreciate the opportunity, michael, yet we can't get past a fellow named tim geithner, who wants no banks, except his banks. and the wonderful congressman, leonard boswell, just walked in, i can't find for small or

medium-sized manufacturer in iowa, a $50 million loan today if my life depended on it. but i just watched j.p. morgan give $20 billion loan commitment to at&t to buy t-mobile, which is a problematic deal. what the congressman and the senators are trying to do in iowa, it's been diminished by insensitivity to small and medium-sized manufacturers and frankly, michael, to the absence of fundamental manufacturer and industrial policy for the nation. >> please. >> can i make one -- >> uh-huh. >> one of the things this report recommends on page 33 is that we move to balance our trade in five years. now maybe the five years, we need to balance our trade. let me help you. the administration has set a goal of doubling exports. if you look at what is happening, imports are increasing faster than exports. so when you have a negative net

export figure, meaning imports are less than exports, that is a drag on your economy. we have massive net export figures year after year. warren buffet, in a famous article in fortune magazine in october 2003, advocated that the united states needs to adopt policies to balance its trade. now people always hear, you hear in the debate now, china owns so much of our treasuries. we're dependent upon them. where did china get the money to own so much of our treasurers? we gave it to them by running massive trade deficits year after year. here is the way the chinese do it. when the dollars come into china, the chinese government buys the dollars from the people and bring them in. then the chinese government issues bonds to suck it up so they don't get inflation in their economy. the chinese government ends up with dollars and don't want to put them in a mattress, so they

buy our treasurers and get income in the treasuries and get leverage over us s. this a crazy thing for the country to be let going on and the hole is getting deeper. ford used to say, we're another day older and deeper in debt. we have to change the trends here. this is important, this recommendation to move to balance our trade. when kennedy said we are going to get to the moon in this decade, nobody knew how to get to the moon. he set the goal and we figured it out. we can figure these things out if we set goals for ourselves and balancing trade. carol. >> yeah, i wanted to expand a little bit on leo's comments about infrastructure and the infrastructure bank, investment. i think this is the linchpin between the micro-goal of rebuilding our manufacturing sector and the macro economic

goals and demand. it is not just calper's that is looking. there is peridoxially doing deficit deal, which will actually cut the amount of fixed income debt available, there is a shortage of fixed income debt that is occurring because of the collapse of the mortgage market. that is one. two, as baby boomers approach retirement, fixed income investments become much more important to them and three, as emerging markets population enter their prime savings period, there is going to be additional flood of capital. we actually need to generate attractive, fixed income investments that a national infrastructure bank would curve in order to have a workable banking and financial system in the world. that's one thing.

so, you put together what infrastructure and the infrastructure bank does. it leverages and puts to work all this idol capital. it's not just 1 to 2 trillion,ats 3 to 4 trillion when you add in all the excess liquidity that is floating out in the global economy. you crowd in like-minded amount of not just putting private capital in the debt markets, but you put crowd in private investment into because of the multiplier effect that infrastructure investment has. moreover, then you also facilitate not just directly the manufacturing sector, but more importantly some other key sectors of the economy upon which america's future rests and in particular the energy and

transportation systems. we have an enormous abundance. the representative talks about solar, let me talk about natural gas. we have an enormous abundance of natural gas and shale oil located in all parts of the country. we don't have the infrastructure to move that or to put it into use. we have a -- there will be a trillion dollars of investment and enormous amount of jobs needed over the next five to ten years to build the infrastructure to make us actually balance our energy picture. we have an enormous potential, if we rebuild the manufacturing base to move goods and services around the countries. one of the principle ways of doing that is enormous inland waterways, not just the mississippi, but the great lakes. we allowed them to deteriorate enormously and they're not as energy efficient.

these are the most energy efficient ways of moving goods and services around the world. we need 5 to 10 billion of investment over the next 5 to 10 years to be able to move the goods and service necessary a much more efficient and attractive way, which make its very attractive to manufacture things in the center of the country and actually move them around new population centers that are located in -- whether in the great lakes or texas. so infrastructure investment in bank in particular where you can leverage a small amount of public capital as leo described into a much larger -- take $1 to $2 trillion dollars off the sidelines and put to work in the debt and equity markets has an enormous appeal as the centerpiece of an economic recovery and jobs program. >> before we turn it over to the audience for questions, i want

to know if any of the panelists have other thoughts on the specific proposals here and professor owen who is supposed to be a member of the panel, whether is here, i want to know if you have thoughts of your own. the professor is the director of the department of international affairs at the international association of machinists and aerospace workers. and an adjunct professor at georgetown. >> your mic. >> i'm going to hide in the corner. when you said my name, i was looking around the room for my father. on that, just a couple very quick things. one, i really do want to thank

leo and the new america foundation for all their work on this. not only is it timely, but critical. i think it goes without saying that we're in a crisis. it's urgent. and we can ill afford to spend all our time getting more studies done and kind of sifting. the answers are here and we just have to act and act as senator mentioned by showing true leadership in and out of government. a couple quick points. one is on one of the recommendations that has been discussed on one of them that hasn't, the one on buy america is obviously a critical one. i think we are all shocked the pushback that many of us received when we were trying to get "buy america," locked into

the recovery act on that. i think we were shocked about the pushback on that because it was seen as being protection as the representative, i couldn't agree more, we would like to call it industrial policy. we'd like to call it national and economic security on that and i don't think there is anything to hide behind that. when talking about "buy america," we're not only talking about buying goods that are produced here in america, using u.s. supplys and raw materials, but we also have to ask ourselves the taxpayer would be shocked to learn some things we consider to be domestically made only have 51% domestic content in them. if you were to ask most folks down the street or even folks maybe at the federal trade commission, what is made in the u.s.a. mean, it would mean entirely different thing. it would mean really made here in the u.s. the second part is there is no ruin form guidelines

throughout government on defining what is domestic content. some would be shocked to learn intangible items like the value of intellectual property rights and so forth are figured in in some cases to determining what domestic content is. and those things should be low-hanging fruit. and it would be interesting to see those who actually oppose that, particularly when we see unemployment as high as it is. it should be a low-hanging fruit to make sure the government procurement employs people here. the second related recommendation goes to the issue of employment impact statement. we've got environmental impact statements. they've been around and tested for a long time. it doesn't appear that many government agencies have incorporated a simple question when letting out a contract and an award, whether for a huge military issue like the tanker

deal or smaller ones to simply ask the question, how many direct jobs is this going to create in the u.s.? what kind of jobs will be created? how long will those jobs last? these are simple questions that should be factored into all of this f. they were, at least it would give policymakers and our fine political leaders up on the panel, much more information that they can consider when they fund government programs, when they fund procurement and so forth. >> thank you. >> thank you very much, owen. now i'd like to open it up to the audience. >> michael. >> go ahead, senator. >> short thing i wanted to mention. two things on infrastructure bank. it has to be invest nment addition to, but not a substitute for the level of federal government grant levels

we have right now. i still think we need pay go as we go long with gasoline taxes and things like that. we have to be caringful, we will do that and don't have to spend federal money whatsoever on the infrastructure. that is one thing. secondly, to really invest in long-term infrastructure projects, you need what others and i have referred to as patient capital. capital is not looking to spin over in a hurry. here is a place we can get really a two-for. my committee has been having a series of hearings i started a little over a year and a half ago on what is happening to pensions in america. the fact that people are losing their pensions at an alarming rate, which started in the '80s when we shift friday defined benefits to defined contributions and 401(k)s so everybody could have 401(k) and

take it with them and it all sounded so nice and good and everything like that. but it has decimated any kind of a pension system. in other words, something you can rely on until you die. 401(k)s we know now about two out of three people that have 401(k)s that are going to be approaching retirement within the next 20 years do not have sufficient money to last in their lifetimes. a lot of people are taking out lump sums of $100,000 thinking, i'm rich, but no retirement. one out of every four person necessary america today working age have 0 amount of money in a pension, 0. so we need to rejuvenate the pension system so we have more of defined benefit program. we can build hybrid system so that it's portable, so you can move around no matter where you go, you have a system like that.

that provides you with patient capital. capital that can be invested for long periods of time and that's where the infrastructure bank and other consist go to get that kind of capital and guess what, voila, you have a pension system that will pay back the people later on in life a pension. i hope that we can keep that in mind about the benefit of a fine benefit pension plan. >> well, the folks right now, we'll take questions. right over here. >> martin apple. i want to commend you first on being able to integrate a whole number of separate realms and ideas. everybody prescribing the solutions, one lever they would like to push to solve everything. i realize and have shown us you have to integrate a lot of different parts to make it work.

among the parts of the system we seem to always get to seems to be trade balance with china. i mean, this has in all your sets of data seems to be a bigger lever than most. if you look at how that came about, we have a committee that was supposed to solve this by preventing it from happening. it doesn't work. why don't we recreate it immediately in a form that will. i don't care whose name it has and how it works, but set it up to function and solve the problem of fair trade, balances between countries based on currency exchange f. we do this promptly and set a time limit of a couple years and have it completely done, then there may be a lot of things that will happen between and yous china. there will be some frictions. the middle kingdom has a view of what the world looks like and so

do we. somewhere in that exchange rate whether currency goes up 40% or ours devalues in some way, we have to make an exchange that can help generate the necessary stay at home kind of things. second thing about patient capital, i love the idea, but there is another way to look at it. our financial system is tail that is driving the dog. and it makes the all of the large companies in the country look at short-term profits. in order to do that, they can't invest in long-term potential opportunity. and that driving force that capital has been pushing the one of the drivers that moves a lot of jobs offshore. we have a lot of invention in this country, but it's not being able to be kept here because as soon as it becomes valuable enough it has an opportunity to go offshore and make higher profit. these are things we have to

attack together. >> okay. >> i think you have got a good set of steps to begin. the last component is education. i appreciate your looking at community colleges and how to integrate, but we have to have a university system in which peep whole graduate are effectively able -- >> excuse me. >>-- to work in industry. >> confine this to questions and not speeches, thank you. >> let me give you three quick answers to that. in terms of trade. we spent a lot of time in the document on enforcement which the senator spoke to. we mention the word tariff to proper behavior if we don't see the behavior we're entitled to, we advocate tariffs. in the area of the corporations, i'm very very strongly opposed to a lot of multi national practices.

but as the representative and the senator will tell you, we don't have in place a tax structure that incents them to do the right thing. on education, with all respect, it is one of the greatest insults to the american people with roughly $30 million women and men unemployed today to suggest there is insufficient education and overpaid. everybody in this room and in this nation wants to fix the education system. i promise you, there are millions and millions of sufficiently educated and sufficiently motivated and sufficiently unemployed americans to fill any gap we have to fill in the near term. we didn't see education as our perogative, that's left, we left that to the members. >> thank you. let's take some more questions and please keep them short and make sure they are questions. identify yourself at the outset. this gentleman in the yellow shirt. >> paul gallagher, news service.

i wanted to bring up in creating jobs it's best to take the order that franklin roosevelt did it. first deal with out of whack banking system that is exhausting the credit of nations. >> is there a question in there? >> all i need. we can see in europe yesterday this bail-out policy spireals on and on until it destroys the economy or we stop it. i wanted to bring up that glass stegall restoration is introduced in the congress beyond 35 republican and democratic co-sponsors, both democrats and republicans are pushing for that bill. and invite anyone on the panel to comment on the relevance of that. >> it's extremely relevant. i was the insurance commissioner for eight years of my life and understand exactly what happened when bad mistake was made in 1998 and it was repealed.

it ought to be reinstituted for many, many reasons, some of which you have already described. >> let me just add, the other part of the roosevelt agenda was to create a parallel banking system, a public purpose finance system. my colleague, mike lind, has written an important study on how to recreate a public purpose finance system that has been eroded over the last 10 to 15, 20 years. it seems like the first missing piece is with the infrastructure bank in particular to put in place where ways to be able to channel excess capital into productive invest sxment public and private investment and indeed one of the true legacies of the new deals were all these loan and lending and banking

systems that was put in place in 1930s and '40s. >> those of us who have been here as long as i have, we all have votes we wish we could change and others we are proud of. in 1998, i voted against repeal of glas stegall. i didn't mean to get applause. i was just saying -- [laughter] >> a lot of us gave speeches at the time. i remember the pressure that was put on us by the white house. by bob rubin, larry summers and others, this was the way to go, the thing to do and also, what's his name, the head of the fed, greenspan. i just want to mention, senator,

your speech at the time was warning of what might happen. let's take questions at the back of the room maybe. the lady on the aisle. >> hi, lauren, freelance writer. i've been to a number of job creation panels over the last year and one thing that seems to be left out are how to remove impediments to existing jobs and the thing that really concerns me is the a bill in congress forever that is not getting any traction, six dates have passed similar legislation and i want to know from the panel if this is an area of work they would consider bringing to the task force. almost nobody in this country doing any serious work on bringing in this practice and it's creating underclass of millions of unemployable people.

people like me who have degrees from oxford and georgetouven and cut out completely from federal work and contracts and private sector jobs because of the require toment have sterling credit, even though we know credit reports are often filled with errors. >> i think what we're really -- there are many, many issues involved in getting the american economy back on track. you've just raised one, there are several dozen other of employment discrimination that exists. credit reporting can be useful. you can also be very discrimnatory and you have raised that issue. it has to be looked at in the context of employment discrimination of many types and that happens to be one tochlt get something going in congress, we can't get big things going, overarching issue and certainly

the discrimination issues are one thing we need to deal with f. it is okay with you, mike, i would like to take this opportunity to ask my colleague, leonard boswell to take my seat. i would like to get out of town before the faa shuts down. thank you very, very much. >> not often you have the luxury of reserve congressman. thank you. >> congressman, we haven't heard from you. if you would like to -- >> i know the time is short, i want to salute all of you for having this and the thought process. we are certain of the crisis and you all know that and histories being written. what's it going to say? that's what is driving me and probably all of you. i was somewhat relieved. i even asked for mr. summers to

leave town. i wonder what we have to do to get mr. geithner to leave. i was glad to see him go back and do what he does well, he's a good professor. i would like to see the other gentlemen go and do whatever he does well. so, we're at a crisis and we have got to get to building things with american hands and until we can do that with all this possibility, we're going to continue to go the wrong way. so i will just say this, i think it's okay, even though amnesia set in how we got where we are in this deficit situation, but we've got it. we've got to deal with it. it's okay to have a debate in front of the american people, they will get it. we have the capacity to do other things, economic development, infrastructure, all these things we're talking about. why aren't we doing that? it's frustrating because the country needs it, the country is

in great need and there is some things we know we have to do, go to any state, any city and you'll find out we're falling way behind as we think about our asia neighbors, european neighbors and we think we're going to compete? we've got to get to doing things. thank you, i'm sorry for -- >> no, thank you, congressman. time for one more question. yes, sir, on the end there. >> just two quick things that have to be brought up. my name is rick lopez, just a couple things that are fundament to bring up. the questions are directed to the representatives. one, i think it's pretty obvious that mr. obama has come out publicly and pushed the agenda of real brutal osterity, and he's talking about putting social security on the table,

which most citizen necessary this country knows that means the chopping block. my question to you, is there going to be serious resistance against this president? two, a more technical question. if we look at the effects of sustainable technologies on third world countries, i mean, it's murderous and keeps countries backwards. you can't run a modern day hospital with a windmill, i'm sorry, it's not possible. and so are you guys willing to reconsider technologies that are efficient and are actually large enough scale to deal with the crisis, such as nuclear power development. i know the media has been hysterical about making america afraid of nuclear power. we need ambitious programs and i wonder if you guys agree we should have programs like the ap ollo program or atoms for peace, the programs which stimulated the economy. thank you. >> thank you. >> well, yes, there will be

resistance to any cuts in medicare or in social security. social security is sound, it does not contribute to the debt. you know the data on that. and quite frankly, looking ahead after 2036, when social security is anticipated to pay 75% of what is supposed to pay out, not 0, 75%, to make up that additional 25% for the next -- probably the next 50 years, why aren't we talking about raising the cap on payroll taxes? why is it fair that someone who makes $50,000 a year pays payroll taxes on every last dollar? someone who makes $500,000 only pays $.20 on the dollar. why is that fair? by simply raising the cap, you'll have sufficient funds to take care of any problems of

social security for at least the next 50 to 75 years. so yes, we're going to resist any of those things. look, there has been a move within the republican party to privatize social security for years. i can remember in the '90s with gingrich, and them, and wall street wanted to get their hands on that money. talk about free money. i mean, social security, they can invest and start to spin around. they wanted to get their hands on some of it. you hear about partial privatization. we have to be careful about any kind of partial types of privatization of social security. on energy, the cheapest barrel of oil is still the barrel of oil you don't buy. what do i mean by that? the cheapest barrel of oil is the one that you save, you don't buy, which means conservation. we -- here is jobs. here is jobs. infrastructure jobs.

just rebuilding is not the right word. >> renno vagz. >> renovating the buildings to make them energy efficient. huge, huge savings in energy and there you could lock in american made goods, doors, windows, new heating and ventilation systems, geo-thermal systems, retrofitting the buildings of america, which save you -- i don't have all the data. >> five or six years. >> you can get it all and employ a lot of people to do that. you can talk about nuclear power and wind and all that, and a lot of that is okay for the future, but why aren't we focusing on the things that will create jobs, stimulate manufacturing in america and save energy all at the same time and that is renovation and conservation of energy. >> thank you very much.

thanks for the panel. i think we have a lot of agreement here on need for national policies. here is the report. read it, take it home. thanks so much. >> thank you, michael. >> thank you. >> next highlights from nasa's last shuttle flight. after that details on thatsa's unmanned mission to mars and a discussion with former director. .

nasa completed its 30-year >> nasa completed the program this week with the safe landing of atlantis following a mission to the international space station. tonight look at the highlights of the final shuttle flight frshgs pre-flight activity through the launch to thursday's landing at kennedy space center. later, hear the atlantis crew members talking about their

trip. this is about 45 minutes. >> this is the second -- his second trip into space. and here's mission specialist number one sandy magnus. and miion specialist number two here. and here they come. crew going down the elevator where they'll be greeted by employees from kennedy space center and members of the news media. this is the same elevator

that's been used by the astronauts ever since apollo.

>> the flight crew is now in the white room of the orbiter access arm. members of the closeout crew in the white coverls and the asttro -- coverlalls, the astronauts in their orange space suits. >> they're just getting rex. in hopefly this will be the last astronaut you'll see climbing into a vehicle to go fly in spa on the shuttle.

>> attention all personnel. th is he this launch status check. >> t.t.c. go. >> houston flight. >> houston flight if you give me, you call me again, i would appreciate it. standby. >> yes, will call you later. s.t. >> s.t.m. is go. >> l.r.d. >> l.r.d. is go. >> s.r.o. >> s.r.o. is go. >> c.d.r. >> c.d.r. is go. we are ready to proceed with the exception of flight who needs more time. >> k.t.c. processing eineer.

>> we are go. >> thank you, bill, appreciate that. >> we are go. >> thank you. >> we need final go here, let's hear what he says and we'll get back to you. >> atlantis go. >> ok, starting to feel good down here on the ground about this one today so on behalf of the greatest team in the world, good luck to you and your crew on the final flight of this true american icon. so for the final time, good

luck, god speed and have a little fun up there. >> thanks to you and your team, ke. until the very end you made it look easy. this is a refction of what a great nation can do when it dare tots follow through. we are completing another chapter of a journey that will never end. celebrating the thousands of men and women who gave their hearts, souls, and even lives in this program. the crew of atlantis is rea to launch. >> thank you, r. we'll get you going in a minute. >> houston flight. >> for the record i'm go. >> launch director, that's our entire launch team. we are ready to proceed at this time. >> i copy that. clear launch atlantis.

>> countdown on my mark. three, two, one, mark, t minus nine minutes and counting. auto sequence has been initiated. >> atlantis, this day has been 30 years in the making, there have been many fabulous missions over the years, on behalf of our launch team, we salutehe entire asonaut corps for their dedication not only in ex-up and downing our knowledge of the universe but also here on earth. have an excellent mission and god speed. >> thank you very much. >> perform a.t. start.

>> reconfigure. >> flight crew o.t.c., close and lock your visors, initiate o2 flow. >> t-minus two minutes. >> t-minus 40 seconds. handing off to atlantis' computers at t-minus 31. 35, 33. have had a failure. sequencer. >> we have to go through the

verification, please. >> all right. >> we need to verify using a camera, positioning camera 62 now. >> let us know as soon as 62 is swung over. >> countdown will resume on my mark. three, two, one, mark. >> t-minus -- handoff to atlantis' computers has occurred. firing chain is armed. >> 15.

>> go for main engine start. t-minus 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5 -- the engines up and burning. 2, 1, 0, and liftoff. the final liftoff of atlantis on the shoulders of the space shuttle, ameri will continue the dream. >> houston now controlling the flight of atlantis, the space shuttle spreads its wings one last time for the art of a sentimental journey into history. 24 seconds into flight. wings level on a proper alignment. 4.5 million pounds of hardware and humans taking aim on the international space station. 40 seconds into the flight, the three liquid fuel main engines throttling back to 72%,

reducing stress on the shuttle as it goes transsonic for the final time. >> once again, from the pilot point of view camera, one minute until touchdown. the preflare maneuver executed.

landing gear down and locked. main gear touchdown, now deploying the drag chute. rotating the nose gear down to the deck. nose gear touch down. having fired the imagination of a generation a ship like no other, its place in history secured, the space shuttle pulls into port for the last time, its voyage at an end.

>> after serving the world for 30 years, the space shuttle has earned its place and history, it has come to a stop. >> we'll take this opportunity to congratulate you, atlantis, as well as the thousands of passionate individuals who brought this great space faring nation who truly empowered this incredible scecraft which for three decades has inspired millions around the globe. job well done, america. >> thanks. great words, great words. it's changed the way we view the world and changed the way

we view the universe. a lot of emotion today but one thing is indisputable, america will not stop exploring. thank yo for protecting us and keeping this program until the end. >> all right, guys, one more step here to do but before we do that, hopefully i can get through this, but -- l's see, i want to take this opportunity to pass on a few words this will be the last time this team will be together. first and foremost, i want to thank you guys. it's been my extreme privilege and honor to have work with each one of you and been part of this outstanding team of individuals so dedicated and passionate about the work they do. each of you should take great pride in what you have achieved

and know you're the main reason for the success of the space shuttle program. 30 years ago, the dream had just begun. as columbia's nose gear touched down, he told his team, prepare to make history. that was a moment for t rhysry -- history books. today is also a moment for history books. the work done in this room and this building will never again be duplicated. i believe that those in the shuttle program will become the shoulders for the next generation to stand on. hold your heads with pride as we close out the space shuttle program, you have earned it. savor it, soak it in, you are the best. you have made america and the world a better place. it's been an unbelievable and

amazing journey. to the entire nasa team, god bless you all and god speed. with that, why don't you guys bring them in here, we'll watch the crew walk around while i finish handing over the vehicle. [applause] >> heart felt words from the entry flight director, signing off to the entry team for the final time as 30 years of space shuttle operations and mission control come to an end with the safe landing of atlantis, its four astronauts now off the vehicle for the final time.

>> the commander is now leaving the crew transport vehicle along with our other astronauts. being greeted by our nasa administrator. and our center director, bob cabana. we see sandy magnus, rex will i'm and chris ferguson. john shannon from houston. our launch vehicle atlantis manager angie brewer.

john shannon who served as our program manager at at houston for the shuttle program. >> our launch director in the background, mike linebaugh. and mike moses along with mike linebaugh. there's laurie, our deputy administrator, our administrator charlie bolden.

>> scene of happiness as well as mixed emotions. there's the atlantis banner that was on the hatch of atlantis when the hatch was closed. with rex wallheim, getting his picture made with atlantis' banner. mark knappy from the united

states alliance. >> you probably can't hear me out there but i'm going to talk to the mike anyway. it's a great day to be here and welcome the crew back home. i personally want to salute them an everybody who has been involved in this program. it's bn a 30-year journey that's been absolutely incredible. i want to say that all of us stand on the shoulders of some giants, none any better than these. they have come been known as the final four. they did an absolutely incredible job. if you have an opportunity to watch during the mission, they were like racehorses the whole time. they made us very proud. we've been exploring since early in our country's history. what the crew did this time was close out thisra of our exploration but i want everybody who was involved in

this to feel incredibly proud of what you did and what your role was. like me they got an opportunity to do the flying but we owe an incredible debt of gratitude to the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of folk around the country who made this all possible. i had a chance to talk to some of you this morning, we were lining up the convoy, i think you -- i thank you again for everything you have done. what we have done has set us up for exploration for the future, but right now i want to welcome them home and let them know how proud we are of them. i ask you to come up and talk for your crew now. thank you. >> thank you, charlie. we appreciate those remarks. i'll tell you that, you know, flying in space is a real dream but flying in space has a lot more to do with who you do it with than what you do.

these three folks, rex and sandy and doug, i'll tell you, a commander couldn't ask for three better people to go and perform an aggressive and to a certain extent, historic mission. there's no doubt that there was a lot of attention paid to this mission because it does bring to a final close 30 years of space shuttle history. i'm going to speak on behalf of them and just say that we're all, the three of us, the four of us were honored to be part of this. but ultimately it's, everyone who has worked on the shuttle program, though we got to take the de, we sure hope that everybody who has ever worked or touched or looked at or envied or admired a space shuttle was able to take just a little part of the journey with us. we're going to put atlantis in a museum now along with the other three orbiters for

generations that will come after us to admire and appreciate and hopefully, i want that picture of a young 6-year-old boy looking up at a space shuttle in a museum and say, you know, daddy, i want to do something like that when i grow up, or i want our country to do fantastic things like this for the continued future. if we take those steps right now and they continue with that next generation of space explorers, then i consider our job he complete. again on behalf of the crew, i thank you so much for the time and attention and for the folks at k.f.c. thank you for this vehicle, it performed wonderfully, it's just as pristine as it was, i hope, on the day we took it, barring maybe a door that opened up a little bit on entry. but everything is wonderful, the vehicle is great, thank you very much.

>> and there they go.

>> space shuttle atlantis landed early thursday morning at >> space shuttle atlantis landed. later that day, the shuttle astronauts, including chris ferguson, briefed reporters on the most memorable moments during the space program. this is about 20 minutes. this is about 20 minutes. >> good afternoon, everyone. this is our post-landing news knchts. we'll start with comments from the crew and then take questions. we'll turn it over to o commander, chris ferguson. >> hello. i think we're elated to be back here in florida. the weather was perfect today.

one of the thingwe always have in the back of our mind is are we going to end up back in florida or in california? the launch director, before we launched, said, you may not go to california. we had to come back to florida. fortunately the weather cooperated and we had a nice predawn landing. to my left, sandy magnus, m.s.-1, she had to haul the heavy stuff out of the t.l.m., did everything from robotics to taking care of us on the mid deck and she was just a tremendous asset to this crew and i'm proud to have called her my crew mate. sandy? >> the mission was incrediblely busy. we knew it would be incredibly busy when we started. we got tons of help from the space station crew and with their help and all the great work that these guys did we were able to get that cargo transferred and then more cargo transferred back. .

that is pretty much all we did. it was an absolutely great experience. it was tremendously. -- busy. i just want to say what an honor it has been to be part of the space shuttle program. i started 26 years ago as a black -- back flight controller.

it has been such an honor. you will notice when you talk to people here at the kennedy space station that it runs in the blood. everyone wants to be a part of it. we understand it is time to transition, but we will cherish every minute of it. and i wanted to thank all the folks on the ground who helped get us off on a very exciting launch and to recover on a wonderful landing in mission control and all of the folks at the other space flights that helped us on the other missions. on my left is the pilot, doug curley. doug was the chief of the great undocking fly around. i am sure look pretty, but it was pretty challenging inside. he was calm as a cucumber as all things were lining up and we were all doing a different cast, and he was running the show. he did a great job.

>> i do not know what else to say, other than we are glad to be back here in florida. it felt like about a two-month mission crammed into 13 days. we ran from dawn till dusk literally up there. i think w left the station better than we found it. i think we have them set up for the long haul. fergie never gets introduced. he is the glue that kept us together heading in the same direction for the surreal experience. i do not think any of you appreciate the demands and pressures and emails that only chris gets that he dealt with. there was no indication positive or negative to the rest of us. he kept us going in the right direction.

we cannot say enough about sandy, but we also cannot say enough about chris. he was a great guy to work for. i would like to do it again with him sooner rather than later. >> with that, we will take questions. we will start down here in the front with march up here again to gsha. >> we just heard that tears were flowing on the runway. i would like to know if tears were slowing in the cockpit and what were the emotions. >> there are certain times you have to do nothing but concentrate in cannot feel the historic nature of it. for instance, when doug did the undocking. it was a magnificent sight. it was dark and we were

departing. i was set back so i could be more detached for the first part. when the station crews of the atlantis is departing, that is one there really choked me up. it depicted on what part of the mission your ads in what your job was. there were times that you would take the big picture and get to you. -- it depended on what part of the mission it was for you. >> thank you for answering the same questions hundreds of times. every 10 years we interview genus and then on the anniversary of him being the last man to walk on the moon. -- gene sinnon. in 10 years, where do you think we will be in terms of the u.s. and human space flight and exploration? >> that is a great question, i know it really is.

i know where i hope will be. given everything i know today, i think we will be traversing back and forth and a lower orbit with one of the four or five vehicles that are being considered right now. i think that will be a well- travelled path. i think we will have spending either short or perhaps long amount of time in orbit who have paid for a trip there. i do not think it is too much unlike the airlines. recalled whole airline industry, the aviation industry got started with designed airfoils. they enable the aviation to take off. nasa has really laid the foundation for space flight, commercial space flight to take off. i think in 10 years we will see that. i think you will be on the

verge, if not already, have launched a heavy lift vehicle. liftif's developed heavy vehicles with the intent of leaving orbit. if 're not there, we will have been there very -- we will be there very shortly. clearly, it is my opinion. i hope it is something that the ads placed play -- does take place, because we need something to look forward to. right now is a time of morning, but that is to be expected. we have said we're saying goodbye to a good friend, and we will get over that. once we get over it, we will start looking for it and make it happen again. >> high. -- hi. i'm with space.com.

am wondering if you plan to visit the space shuttle once they are installed in the museum homes? >> i think it will be nice to visit them in the museum. i think to go and see it through other people's ideas they have chosen to display it and what people -- i think it would be fun to go to the museum and what people look at the shuttle and listened to the comments they are making. that would be very interesting. >> right here. >> [unintelligible] before this flight you spoke of you did not know when it would sink and that this was the final flight. has that started to sink in that this is it for the space shuttle? >> yes. i think it started to sink in

sooner than i thought it would. every once in awhile it would start to sink in, and it was in the quiet times. one of the times when we were on mid deck of the space station where we live and sleep. i was thinking about all the other cruises before me, and i thought this is the last time. someone else as me when we go to visit atlantis and the museum. i certainly plan to. we were the last crew that lived on there. >> evan braun, fox news radio. how did atlantis perform on the final trip? she came back, landed, being towed back. what kind of shape is she in?

if for some magical reason there was another set of srv's, cou ifld she do it? -- cld she do it? >> absolutely. other than we had a with a call in the middle of the night. one of them got a little cranky. that happens. everything worked just like it is supposed to. chris and wrecks and i got practice with malfunction procedures to get them back in order, but that was not a big deal. it was pbably a bigger deal down here that wasn't there. the funniest thing about that, -- that is really the only thing i can think of that did not work. everything worked perfectly. and the memory i will have but that is the alarm went off, we are all in the sleeping bags and

the mid deck is stark. chris and i popped out of the sleeping bags and look at each other and say what is that? [laughter] we get the sleeping bags and go up to the flight deck and turn on the display and short out it -- sort out it was gpc four. chris described them as gofers comingut of their holes. sandy popped up after that. what do we say? will everybody please go back to bed. angie and her team had atlantis ready to go. i guarantee 60 days from now she could go again. to go rex's africa stands notwithstandg, did you leave anything of yourself on board atlantis before leaving the final four description you did back in houston? >> we did.

we left a little something. we did not want to make it permanent. we did not want to deface atlantis. we wanted to leave it up to the ground processing crude to decide what to do with what we left behind, but we left an inscription, a low plaque. it was basically a tribute to the people that had worked on the space shuttle program since day one thanking them for their dedication and to let them know how much we thought about the work they do from the astronauts, from the people that it to operate the vehicles that they maintain. a lot of people think the astronauts to live here in florida and rub elbows with these folks every day, so we do not. sometimes it is a little bit of an ever to give them the things and praised the desert, and we try to give them the extra things. now that the wheels have

stopped, when it is mentioned, what will be your most memorable moment of that flight? what would be your most memorable moment of all your flights? >> that is hard one. well, probably not one that you would think. when the countdown clock stops at 31 seconds, and someone says the clock has stopped due to a malfunction, that tends to stick with you. >> the first question that comes to mind is what kind of malfunction? that is just the pilot's perspective. i think if i had to look at it from a layman's perspective, just the image of the space station out there, and unfortunately we cannot convey -- the pictures jusdid not

capture the majesty of what humans have built in the low earth orbit. this is an immense vehicle. people are living and working in it like it is ours, only the flow from module to montreal. it is almost as a real experience. that is probably my most touching memory. >> the question is for sandy. you have more space flight time in orbit than the rest of the crew. with the conclusion of this mission and the shuttle program, it seems like the rules of the game are changing in terms of the spacecraft in years to come, as well as the inception of the lower court but operations contrasting with nasa's plan for deep space exploration. the you foresee a time when there may be different career paths for astronauts based on the work force operations verses deep space?

is that a consideration? you have to decide which direction you want to go in? >> i think that is a conceivable idea. as to get more access, the scope of the missions possible increases. that would require a different type of skill set. it becomes a less of an exploration and more of utilization. the deep space missions areore of an exploration flavor. that requires different skill sets. just as when the shuttle came on line, you see an expansion of opportunities available. we now need scientists and medical doctors and a wide variety of skills sets. i think you'll see the same thing during this transition. every little the province the poibilities for people to go to space. >> one final question. >> on the subject of commitment, question for doug harley. you each individually said yes, you would be a member of the

crew. at happens from today? what things you continue to do as the crew? what happens in the near future? >> i think today we will probably go out and get a nice meal somewhere, and dead head back to houston tomorrow and say hi to the folks back there. and then we will start in debriefs on monday. we will probably pretty busy. debrief usually takes a couple of weeks. then there is post flight p-our experiences after that. we have a few more months together, which is great, because it would be hard to stop it right now. i think that is generally what we will be doing over the next couple three months. a quick one. >> james.

a questionor doug as well. he waited a very long time for your first flight, i believe like nine years. hopefully it is not that long for the next one, but did that experience give you any kind of perspective, any lessons learned in terms of patients, perseverance that you think might help you and the rest of the astronaut corps? anything else to deal with a gap that is to come? >> we are still pouring to fly people. it will be three or 4 per year rather than 30 or 40. for my class, the timing was not good for flying quickly, but there were folks in brick and sandy's class that we did 10 or 11 years. class rick or sandy's that we did 10 or 11 years. it is worth the wait, but you

have to put the effort in as well. hofully if i fly again -- waiting another nine years would be harder rather than easier, but the opportunity to go beyond low or or orbit or to a six- month expedition is a great opportunity -- exhibition is a great opportunity as well. you put your time in and do your job well and good things come. i think i will leave it at that. >> that is all theime that we have with atlantis crew. that will conclude this briefing. we would like to think the crew very much for coming. thank you very much. this does conclude the briefing. >> on friday, nasa announced the next mars rover, will land inside the 96-mile wide gale crater. the landing site was chosen as

the target of the mars science laboratory mission after extensive review of potential science. this news conference took place at the smithsonian museum in washington, d.c. space museum in, d.c. we're here this morning to land -- announced the landing site. and we will share the details of what the mission hopes to accomplish. on july 1, 1976, 35 years ago, on the front steps of the brand new air and space museum, a ribbon cutting ceremony was held to dedicate the smithsonian's newest museum, but it was no

ordinary rich and cutting. the sk was not accomplished by the traditional large signals, but by a signal from the spacecraft orbiting mars. it was a dramatic connection between the exploration of mars and the new national air and space museum, but hardly the last. the relationship was just beginning. i might add that we have a viking spacecraft on display here in the museum. the viking that is on mars actually has been transferred to the smithsonian by nasa, so we are free to pick it up anytime we like, but i dare say that the reach of the smithsonian museum is farther than any other museum in the world with our collections on another world. this museum is world renowned for the collection of historic spacecraft and the millions of visitors that come every year to learn about them and be inspired by them. for decades we have been enjoyed a close relationship to expect

-- insure the extradinary artifas are preserved. this partnership to pserve the heritage in space flight will add another milestone to than actual collection with the arrival of the space shuttle discovery at the space station next spring. i would like to take this opportunity to publicly think nasa for selecting us as the repository for this treasure. i can assure you we will bring our best schools set to this mission. with its dation of the world changing artifacts and the stunning buildings that housed them, enjoy widespread awareness, but what is less well-known is it is not only keeper of history, but also a maker of history. the founding director, michael collins, created the center for urban planning and studies in the 1970's to engage in research

and house imagery and data for all researchers to investigate, thereby establishing the dual mission of history and science. he selected the man to build and lead the center. he had been a principal scientist involving the landing sites for the apollo missions. my colleagues knew him quite well. in addition, satellites have been the focus throughout the hiory. nasa scientists have been key contributors to many histoc missions, and are currently involved with the marks -- mars exploration rovers a others. the mercury surface space and garden geochemistry and ranging aircraft that are known as messenger, and the focus of today's announcement, the mars and science laboratory. as the staff works to preserve the history of space exploration, the museum's

planetary sciences at to the current exploration of space with a highly regardedesearch in space. we are fond of saying around here that if it is on mars, orbiting mars, or on its way to mars, nasa scientists are involved. scientists collaborate with researchers all over the world. we are extremely proud of the contributions they make to the inhabitants of thi precious planet -- precious planet we call earth. for those who think this is the closing of the curtain on american space exploration, they need only to look at the current data, and the next one isbout to launch, to note the space station is very healthy and every day we're still going places we never seen -- been. we're very proud of our own planary studies. in his role. we will hear of it from him later. i would also like to point out

of a full-sized model of msl on display at the museum of the far end. i invite you to take a look at that after the press conference, as well as the many programs we have going on. we have stations all over talking about the research that our group does on mars, and generally about mars. with that, i would like to pick -- began the discussion by asking the chief scientist to come forward. [appuse] >> thank you, and thank you for hosting this event, because i love this museum. every time i come in here i am a kid again looking around at all the incredible and exciting stuff. since i have become chief scientist at nasa, i have gone to nurture the cld that much more.

i think it is a great event, and a wonderful venue, and i really appreciate that. i want to start by saying a lot of attention has been given in the last weeks, months, years perhaps to the event that concluded yesterday with the landing of the space shuttle, the say, a successful landing of the shuttle marking the turning of a page to a new chapter in human exploration of space. things change. what remains constant and what brings us here today to this room to this conversation is the fact -- what remains constant is the urge to explore. the urge to reach out beyond where we are and understand our surroundings and place in it. it is really ingrained in our

dna. it is at the very heart of who we are as human beings d human spirit. to feed that, i believe -- i know that now set this up a nominal. i believe the greatest agency in the world and feeding the hungry, helping us explore and to understand our panic -- planet, solar system in universe and place in that. we do this in the amazing ways. people doingedible doin incredible things. you are hearing from th today. i know four of them, and the fifth i will assume by t company you keep. we have incredible people doing incredible things. ink about it, landing the rover on mars with pinpoint

accuracy, at a location you hear about today, i almost wish i did not know it, because i am scared today i am going to say it, but i do not think i will. really, it is not just mars and human exploration. this year alone we have entered orbit around mercury with the messenger spacecraft selli of secrets about planet closest to the sun. we are launching to jupiter. we have earth observing capers -- capabilities in place. we have a very robust science portfolio. that is important for a coue of reasons. one is science is really one of the three pillars on which this agency stands. human space flight, science, and aeronautics. to see it robust and to be a

part ofhis conversation is really incredible for me. with that, i want to invite you as you hear what your want to hear it in the next few minutes, i want you to go back to the kid in new that looked as stars and was fascinated. in i am sure you felt it when you walked into the museum and saw the module that landed on the moon. find that person as you hear this information and let that person come this -- come inside you informed by the smarthings u have over the years -- you have learned over the years.

we are all still in all of it. there is not the day that goes by where i do not think about that rover or other activities we do at nasa and get blown away. i encourage you to receive this information in that spirit. deep inside you there is something that craves this stuff, that hunters for this stuff. the fact that we have the capability, the science capabilities and engineering capalities to deliver what we are delivering is incredible. let's not lose sight of that spirit and in fact, let's elevate it. it is crucial. you will hear some amazing

things about unbelievable capabilities. i am rtainly excited to hear what everyone has to say. with that as a set up, did not let me down. [applause] good morning. my name is dwayne brown with nasa's office of communications in nasa headquarters. as you have heard, today's mars ys, and what better venue to announce the destination of the next mars rover. with a lot to cover. i will introduce to you the participants. first up, michael meyer. lead scientist. mars exploration program as i have corridor's washington, d.c. -- nasa headquarters, washington, d.c.

john grant, a geologist, smithsonian national air and space museum here in washington. don sumner, a geologist, uc- davis california. john bratsinger. with that, michael, kick it off. take a think you. ago, biking35 years one that landed on the surface of mars and made the first measurements on another planet. the landing was delayed because they did not have the images to know where to land. we a in a different era. we're here today to announce exactly where we are going to put the mars science laboratory.

we live in a different era. in 1995 nasa produced a strategy for exploring mars and laid out a series of missions on how to understand the red planet. basically it has led the exploration program to go from global reconnaissance to detailed measuremen on the surface and the eventual returns from mars. the mars science laboratory is on that path and plays a very critical role in it. we have done our homework. the engineers have designed spacecraft that get us to where we want to go. scientists have integrated informion to decide the best places to go on the planet. we are able to do that.

so it was through a process of five sence community workshops, detailed engineering evaluations, and the directorate program management council in which it was finally decided to adopt what the mar science laboratory science team preference was and select a site. we are going to the mountain and gail crater. this has layered terrain. it exhibits three different kinds of environmental settings. serhaps a trilogy of mar history. it is a worthy goal of a worthy challenge. to tell us about the capabilities, i will now turn the podium over to mike watkins,

the mission manager. >> it is great to be here at the air and space museum to announce the landing sites. one of my jobs is to prepare for operations. before we get into the characteristics of the sites, i would like to talk a little bit about the characteristics of the rover and how it compares to previous reverse. if you go to the first graphic, this is the family tree. this is a family portrait of rovers. these are all related. a lot of the same people worked on all three of these rovers. that is starting with the general path rover. opportunity is still checking on

long on the surface of mars much after the nominal mission. then you see curiosity there on the right. as mentioned earlier, the model is out in the hallway that you can take a look at here in the museum. the progression of size -- a lot of times we ask why they're getting better -- bigger. the reason we're asking is that the mars program is a science- driven program. sciencearrying more payloads. you see rooms full of instruments. we're trying get as much of that as we can onto the surface of mars. we see a very small payload to something like five or 6 kilograms of payload on certain opportunity. now more than 10 times that on curiosity. we will talk about how we will use the payload of the deal san -- landing site. we have made a lot of improvements to the landing

system and the capabilities that make it easier to get do better spots on mars to do me detailed scientific investigations. let's go to the next graphics. this particula fily portrait is a model. this is the real thing. rover has been shipped down to nasa. on top of that, we call this the descent stage. but rocket attaches and will land on the surface after we get to atmosphere. i will show that in animation later. that allows us to land directly on the wheels so we do not have a separate tally or landing gear.

we use the wheels in the mobility system. they are affecting landing systems. that allows us to use the capability of the system and save weight. let's go to the next graphic. here you can see testing the mobility system, but actual flight unit. you can see 4 scale some folks standing around it. it is quite large. it is wider and taller than most cars. the next graphic. the next graphic is actually an animation. there is a couple of changes that we made to this mission that will improve the ability to access the most

scientifically important places on mars. one is we control the lift of the vehicle on entry and can cancel out unexpected differences in the atmospheric drag that would cause the landing to be large. previous missions there have been lding zones of to 10 times largerhan msl. this will allow us to snub this up closer to very important sites that the scientists would like to explore. then we restart the engines. then we go into tower defense mode here. this is what you saw in the previous picture. when we 0 out of our horizontal

philosophy, we will lower it down on cable. we touch that down to the surfac -- -- then we zero that out on the horizontal stage. we will then get it out of the way so it does not affect the chemical analysis equipment. this will be several hundred millimeters away. then it is prepared to execute the mission by driving around. it has the ability to drive a lot on the surface is important. driving many kilometers around the landing site allows you to explore a lot of different you logic settings. and learn a lot about the history of for they have been on the surface. we have taken that ability, which was a bonus and built it

into the baseline, nominal mission. we intend to drive quite a bit. in terms of how to select the landing site, we have the capability of their rover and science schools that the science community wanted us to explore. we had to take a look at each one of the sites in excess -- assess the safety. we worked with the project to basically takes loss. so we have this 1 meter resolution where we could see every rock we could land on and every float and do scientific

characterization's of the site. on this graphic here, you can see the blue swaths you can see were the high-resolution images are. in most cases we have 2 images from different viewpoints so we can make a three-dimensional view of mars and show this very accurately. when we are completed with the analysis of what the characteristics of the terrain on mars work, go to the next graphic. we then felt mockups of the surfaces and actually tested touching down the river and driving over those different surfaces. sometimes we put boulders on there to see how it would interact. this is an engineering copy of the rover. we dropped it and all possible rotations.

when we are finished, our conclusion was that all four of those final sites were safe for the mission to land on and we could safely execute the surface mission. we could sickness of the late -- successfully navigate and try to the targets. at that point we turned it back to the science committee and said pick the best of these sites. i think that it's a tribute to the engineering team thatuilt a really beautiful rover that is capable of accessing all of these different landing sites. those for landing sites that were the finalists we talked about very originated with ove 50 sites in a process that played out over a five-year period to talk about that, i would like to turn over to my colleague, john grant from here at the museum. tico's 60 sites, five years, 150

scientists. -- >> 60 sites, five years, 150 scientists. the science community came together and work very closely with the project and had very robust discussions that are arrived up for terrific final four candidates sides. what i would like to do before i turn it over to talk about bill crater is to tell you a little bit about that process -- about the crater and tell you a little bit about that process. what you're looking at is a map of mars that has some shaded areas. the lighter shaded areas represent latitudes that are too far to the north and south to land. he will also see an area that is blacked out through the middle. those are areas where the surface righty of colored terrain that represents the potential targets for us to go

and evaluate the have the ability of mars. the red dots represent the 60 locations that were proposed by science team members, by the science community and evaluated during the workshops. the four blue dots representhe four candidates sites. i want to tell u about why those represent terrific final canada sites. the next graphic, please. the show you little snippets for each of the sites. gail crater to the right. holding greater to the bottom left. why do these represent great sites? and every quality crater you land at the best delta on mars. this is an incredible system of drainage into a crater that was probably filled with water, accumulated deposit bearded they'll crater, as you heard from michael, there is an

enormous stack of layered material, which represents the opportunity to read chapters in a book of past depositions -- exhibitions on mars. yet the history of dry rivers that drain down into a deposit of finely laird materials, which probably represents an ancient river system. you have an incredibly detailed system of iron rich and aluminum rich clay is better layard and occur in a regional setting that represent a long history of water interaction. it is probably the oldest of the four sites. these are sort of like different flavors of ice cream. all fantastic, but slightly different twist on the take. let me give you different examples of what we might have gone to look at with the next graphic. i mentioned the best built on

mars, you can see on the left, and all the steel bars are in lometers. the craters reprented -- the colors represent low is purple and blue. big yellow box that you see represents a potential science target outside the ellipse. all four sites represent a variety of high-valued science targets. all side of the ellipse, you can see this roles that are the produce and the drainage system came down and deposited in the bill tush, much like we see on earth. -- and deposited into the delta of, much like we see owners. this provides us with a view of a setting on earth we're very familiar with. if we go to gail greater with the next graphic we see the landing ... as just to the north of this large amount of

material. we will land on a fan that represents material off the wall. th we would traverse to the south and access through the grand canyon-like that into the wall of this not material. and these are finely layered sediments that allows us to read the environmental conditions that occur over time. if we think about holden crater, as i mentioned this to first system, we will land and access the dry systems, much like the drainage is uc and death valley. through craters we can see the kinds of sentiments that have been transported and reconstruct the environmental conditions, but ultimately access the finely-layered materials and assigned whether there was an ancient lake that could have accumulated the materials that might allow us to evaluate how the ability. with the last ballot, this isn't

the northern hemisphere. -- this is in the northern hemisphere. there is an incredibly detailed epigraphy of iron-rich in aluminum-rich clays that represents our regional deposit. it record something fundamental about the early interaction of water on mars and tse rocks. i hope i have told you that all four of the final candidate sites represent an incredible opportunity for msl. it was a very difficult decision to arrive at a final one. i will now let don sumner tell you about gale crater in white and ended upeing the eventua landing site. >> i have the joy of co- chairing the projects of landing site working group, and we spend ndreds of dollars discussing the sites, doing analysis of the

sites a trying to come up with the best science we can do with the payload. there are lots of flavors of ice cream, and we have certain ways to investigate those. the project scientists and nasa felt like gail was the best match for the goals of the mission come evaluating habit ability. if we could get the first graphic, i am just going to show a slide into real crater and give you a sense of what an incredible place it is geologically. we will land in a landing ellipse, which is then the soft part of the amount of that you see now. within that, those materials shut off the crater walls. it will give us a chance to look

at what the crust is like. that material is moved by water. those drops are transported by water, and the water is in -- infiltrated into the ground. we are wondering how this reflects the changes in the environment. this is the young this environment we will look at. one of the fantastic things about this rover that might talk about is that it can go along ways. this allows us to grow towards places where the rocks are better exposed. geologist like climbing up cliffs. we get to go to those places for the first time on mars. the area of most scientific interests is that the base of the mound, which 're zooming into here. there we see signatures of clays, and also soleplatealts.

these there key classic minerals that tell us about the environment on mars and the interaction with water. the rover will go towards the amount. there are layers that we hope to see variations and minerals about how the minerals formed and how the end -- the environment change through time. based on the signature, we expect to find it variations and thosminerals, particularly in the sulphate salts, which will tell us about the water, how concentrated it was, whether it evaporated, the sources of the water. that will give us a history about the ancient environments on mars and how this change and help us evaluate the habilitability on the planet. we have a great instrument package to look at how the water

and those adults is exchanging with the modern atmosphere. it will give us a bter sense of the water cycle on mars, which has been very difficult to a evaluate. after the deposition of all of these layers, we had a time when you have water flowing down the mountain of mars. and that gives us the opportunity to read the environments. that canyon cut big event also were bruises and an arm of the could of been habitable. the fleet of things we can see at deal represents a diverse number environments over a long amount of time, possibly hundreds of millions of years,

plus water and the envirment. the gaelsites represent an incredibly rich, sweet and thus bridging the gale site represents an incredibly rich scientific investigations we can do. -- the gale site represents an incredibly rich scientific investigation we can do. we have the incredible instrumentation to characterize the texture and shapes of the cliff and the mobility to travel to this area. the science will be amazing, and it is going to be a beaiful sight to visit. john will tell more abou how he will use the instrumentation to make the investigation? s. >> what i would like to talk to you now about is the way that cuosity will explore the gale landing site, but let me drop back a minute to try to reinforce to you what an

amazing precedent is being set right now with the mission. as my talked about, one of the ings that became obvious to the science team members and the community, and john said there was 150 that attended the rkshops, our science you -- our science team has 260 members at this time. by the time the students are added to this, in participating sciences, we're likely to swell to 300 team members. what we saw happening was the unexpected possible outcome that we may be left with for landing sites -- four landing sites, any of which that might be chosen as the final landing site, that engineering would not kick one of them out. that is what has happened in previous missions. we began to think about how in the