we have only 8% manufacturing jobs. have other nations build up manufacturing? germany has increased. they pay their workers more than we do. mexico has added manufacturing jobs thanks to bill clinton. why is that? china increases. japan has done well. technology changes. worked demand changes. we must be efficient, swift. somewhere, sometime, the president of the united states needs to protect them from unfair competition.

i can do that. i cannot guarantee the jobs. it is my belief that made in growthan support will joker o jobs again. >> [inaudible] >> we followed that free trade philosophy. we just want the cheap goods. i am sure that is important to some americans. i have a case to make. competition is sufficient.

will make the case. we can go cheap and fancy and unfair. look at this. we can do a stronger, better thing than the president's use -- like president used to do. i think the only way to get back real free trade is to establish what "fair" means. we are going to do it. thank you.

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> of my great-grandfather came over from germany. my grandaddy as a teenager fell in love. that is how we got to louisiana. let me do the standups and then i'm yours. >> from here on out, and general meetings. >> i will do it. i am sorry. my focus will be there. i was in massachusetts last

night at a huge rally. new england, south carolina, oklahoma. walmart has only gone so far. people find out the work at walmart for minimum wage. they used to work in a factory for $20 an hour. to talkwhat we're going about across this state and

country. >> do you think this can be done within the level currently? >> it will be hard. there is no question about it. prairiek is, the needs to burn but you need a match. i have the match but not htthe right conditions. i hope that my website gets funded in that we build this team. it is like ron paul with an issue other than the federal reserve. it.ink we xcacan do >> what do you feel that the bar has to be brees right now? -- raised right now.

>> there is a bigger problem. a wise leader would except the challenge to reduce spending. i look at washington as a circus. many are clowns. they never ran a business. they've got know clue what accepted it does. i will tell you what it does. it shrinks the nation. if you do not believe me, i wonder how the next [inaudible] shuttle will go. it would not be an american flight. we are out of that. [unintelligible] napoleon had to sell louisiana.

there are real consequences. it is undisciplined spending of our government. i have no confidence that they will come to this. there is one% reduction. this is $140 billion. you go from there. politics is not hard. you need the courage to stand. quit worrying about the next election. you cannot go any higher. is it a huge problem and hassle?

>> i would not take the money. i would keep them out of the room. these people know how to make decisions. he said the battle of the 21st century is there. i think of the small businesses. i will deregulate small businesses. i will go to generate one, 2008. we were looking pretty good in 2005. >> i have two questions.

>> a president obama emphasize ?his tax cut you do this ta >> i put that together on the first day of my campaign. there were a series of town hall meetings. it is sort of a virtual town hall meeting. i started in ohio. we're going to the college campuses. it is their future. a vacancy at home the pain would get worse. chessman their lots of time there.

-- i can spend a lot of time there. >> what are some of the fund- ?aising things tha >> i ask everyone to get on my website. the maximum cost would be $100. young students over america have already started doing this. i do not have a fund-raiser. this strategy is about every day. you just have to do it today.

when they do, you ask them to get a friend. we can get a chain reaction going. we've already had contributions. thank you. >> next, the state of the u.s. natural park. the active the political protest. after that, u.s. policies. president obama addresses the national conference in washington, d.c. it is the single largest national gathering of the year for the latino community. there are ongoing in emerging issues. we will have live coverage of the president tomorrow at about 4:45 p.m..

next come to a discussion on the state of the national parks. this is about 25 minutes. "washington journal" continues. host: john jarvis is the national park's director. starting his term of service back in 1976. and is here to talk to us about the state of america's national parks. back in april, when they were going through budget cuts, there was a budget cut with the national parks and a threat of government shut down. there was a concern about the impact on the national parks. bring us up to speed on what the current budget situation is with regard to national parks. guest: basically what happened leading up to the potential shut down, there was a concern about that time of year.

spring when the parks were preparing for the ramp-up for the visitation. there was a fear the parks would be shut down. fortunately, we avoided that and in the final fiscal 2011 budget that was passed by congress and signed by the president, ultimately the park service did fairly well. there was a clear recognition by the appropriations leadership on that side that the parks are important to the american public and the economy. host: there's a headline in the july 4th edition of "u.s.a. today", the parks are less accessible this fourth of july. some states are still struggling and some of the parks had to be closed. guest: they are talng about the state park system. they are struggling as each of states are trying to reconcile

in this new competence their re-evaluating the value shall we say of the state park system. i would argue our state park system are an incredible asset to the country. they provide opportunities for recreation and local tourism across this country. the national and state park systems are closely linked. i think it's really too bad that we see the state park system under such diress across the country. host: we are talking to jon jarvis about the state of national parks. get involved in the information. number numbers on the bottom of the screen.

you can also get in touch by e-mail and twitter. there's the commemoration of bull run. these do not happen on national parks. guest: beginning this last april, we began the 150th commemoration of the events leading up to and through the entire civil war, so the first battle of bull run was the first major battle in the civil war and occurred just 26 miles south of here. a little west of washington d.c. and so on thursday of this past week, we had a commemoration in virginia, me and a variety of

folks that really talked in detail about the transformative effect of the civil war on this country. this was a battle that no one thought would be more than a skirmish. people took their picnic baskets down to watch a shot little fight. turned out they were 5000 suales. this was a seminole moment in the course of history and leading up to civil rights in this country. we do not allow these re-enactments on the park land. in this case. there was a re-en actment that

took place on an adjacent farm. hos host:. we will have coverage of the 150th commemoration of bull run on c-span running until 4 o'clock this afternoon. it will include a live call-in program. that tes place again live on c-span three from 11 to four. if you want more information about bull run, can you find out that nps.gov.na. brooklyn, new york, you're live on "washington journal". caller: thank yofor taking my call. i am 80 years of age. i worked my lifetime to work for the park, the tax and everybody else. but we got one problem. if we take the guys that was in

the bush administration for eight years and let them take back t money for medicare. host: james, we're going to leave it there. we're talking about the parks service today. we're going to pittsburgh. caller: hi, thanks for taking my call. having visited several of the national parks, what expectation is there for revenue from some of the private concessions that i see within or adjacent to the parks to utilize and help with the funding short falls we have for our national parks? guest: that's a great question, vicki, we have about 80 private vector that provide lodging, food service, guide services and those things at the national park. all of the renew generated by that is aggregated and we get

some of that coming back to us. we are in the negotiations to increase the franchise fees. this is about a billion dollar business. we gather about $200 million from those private concessioners that operate in the national parks. it's a contributor to the maintenance backlog and the other challenges we have. host: new orleans, you're on the line. eustice you're on. caller: i would like to invite you here to louisiana. i would like for you t come down and examine and help us here in louisiana. that's my statement. guest: we have staff down in the louisia area to hook you up with. there are challenges across the

country with our national park system and particularly our state park system. we're there to help. host: chico, california, wanda is on our line for democrats. go ahead, wanda. caller: yeah, here in northern california, we have a problem with people growing marijuana and start fires when there's approaching law enforcement. i want to know what's being done about that. the citizens are afraid to go into the forest. guest: wanda, i am very aware with that. particularly in california and the sierras, with these marijuana gardens. we are working cooperatively

with drug enforcement agency. the california police and multi-agencies to focus on these marijuana gardens and go in and ock them down immediately upon their discovery. we're doing aviation patrol. night patrol on the highways. it's a challenge. i suggest these are occurring in non-public areas. they tend to go into the back country. i would not worry about your own safety in terms of national parks. they are not interested in having contact with you because they don't want to be caught. they are diverting streams, using pesticides and killing

wildlife. we are working to curtail this activity. host: we have this piece from abc news go.com. visitors to parks can carry guns. they are visiting it's a sharp change to previous laws that restrict guns in the national parks requiring them to be locked or stored. like the previous caller is concerned about drug dealers and various activities going on in the park and feel like their safety is threatened and it's in accordance with local and state law, they can carry a gun into the park. guest: that's exactly right. for many dedes, guns were illegal in our parks. congress changed that through a

rider on the telecommunations bill, which was signed by the president allowed the carrying of both concealed and unconcealed firearms in our parks. let me say we have worked cooperatively with the firearms' community and the advocates and have not had significant incidents. they cannot carry their guns into the federal buildings where we have employees. host: back to the phones, meril, wisconsin. caller: good morning. for the past several years, my wife and i bought an r.v. and go to wisconsin, south dakota and take advantage of the parks. we go to yellowstone and the teton mountains and in montana

in the beautiful glacier park and the theodore roosevelt parks. they have been the best times in our life. the staff is wonderful and the parks are beautiful. my question is, i know there was an oil spill in the yellowstone river, has that affected any of the parks out there? guest: first of all, i would like to know if you would pick me up next time you take that trip. the oil spill was 150 miles down stream from yellowstone. there was no impacts to the national parks system. host: our next call, steve for republicans. while we take your question, we'd like to take a look at the 10 most-visited national parks. go ahead, steve. caller: good morning, how are

you doing? we do have great parks. glacier natiol park in montana is just super. the question i have. i have been doing a lot of research. what do you know about agenda 21. that's about it. i woulduggest to everybody listening to this program. agenda 21. it's a u.n. mandate that's going to affect our parks. guest: i am not familiar what agenda 21 is. host: well, if any of the viewers are familiar with agenda 21, call in and let us know. next call from ft. bragg, california. wayne. go ahead. caller: yeah, i have been a

logger for 45 years, i see they're going to send out timber in yosemite because of a fire hazard and they can't see the waterfalls or whatever. they spent three years to study this and i can imagine the amount of money they spent just to do that. and that takes money out of parks system. so, i think they got to cut down some of these regulations. host: jon jarvis. guest: we are doing limited removal vegetation for fire protection in yosemite. we have wild lands urban interface where private lands

are adjacent to parks. we have to do fuel control and do it carefully. that requires compliance with our regulations. these are national assets and are available for everyone in the country. we have to do careful planning. host: jon jarvis is our guest for theext5 minutes. mary is our next caller. caller: good morning. i am calling because it was reported how the state of arizona was begging the state of parks to do something because the drug cartel had taken over vast amounts of park land on the border, 80 miles in to the united states. the federal government was refusing to send in forces. they posted signs telling

citizens to stay out of national parks because their liv would be in risk. nothing has been done about it. i would appreciate hearing since our government is doing so much for our. why is this being allowed to happen and nothing done about it. i will hang up and listen to your experience. host: jon jarvis. guest: thank you. that is a very complicated issue. your speaking about organ pipe nation park and the cabeza wildlife refuge. it has been a portal for drug activity. illegal activity across the border. we are working very, very closely with homeland security,

border patrol, the national park service to curtail. we have all kinds of surveillance systems in place. a rapid response system. regular patrols. we are taking this on. there are concerns and continue to be from the environmental impact from these groups as well as security. so, and we want to be able to still provide quality experiences there for the public that go down to that incredible part of desert. there's no question there are tough challenges. i would say we have a great working relationship on the border withhe border patrol, the homeland security and national park land service. >> d park rangers carry weapons? guest: absolutely. caller: i love c-span.

i live close to washington d.c. and call myself a democrat, but when somebody asks me who are you going to vote for in the next election, i said that's a tough call because i have friends on both sides of the aisle. host: mary, what are your questions about parks? caller: i am aphotographer, a girl on a horse silhouette in the battlefield. before i took the picture, i asked my lord, jesus or whoever to give me a picture of the

horses that died if the battlefield. and black and white, i thought my god, i got a winner here. it helped to make me, what i'm trying to do is back up the people who helped us get this law passed in 1992 and 1995. called the wild horse bureau. i helped the lady known as wild horsan horsany -- horse annie. host: mary, we're going to leave it there. talk to us about public law 92

and 95. guest: it's not something we're participating in. the wild horses that exist there has nothing to do with the parks system host: you're on "washington journal" with jon jarvis. caller: our parks that are a national index as compared to the great indian nations, how can i relate the size wise and attrtiveness and beauty wise. and would you shed a little bit of light on this. how accommodating are the indian nations? guest: well we have a great relationship with native americans in managing lands that are immediately adjacent, for

example, the navaho and other indian nations are present. they are developing their own heritage programs for the public. they are a very diverse resources in the area. it's a growing area of opportunity for tribes to promote the plic use and experiences on the reservations. so we are working cooperatively. like the bad lands in redwoods and other tribes to promote their areas. host: we have about 18 minutes left in this edition of the "washington journal". we are going to new berlin, new york, john on our independent line. caller: yeah, it's john.

i was concerned about the franchises you spoke about in the national parks. my concern is how does a franchisee get selected? if it's a billion dollar operation and the parks department gets $200 million. that leaves $800 million to franchisees. under any circumstances my coern is how are they chosen? what pressure is put on the franchisees and the difficulty in the strength of the franchisee. if you have yourself, any opinion of the carrying of handguns. that's secondary. i'm more concerned about the money we're not getting from the sale of popcorn and corn on the

cob. host: tom, you got us hungry. guest: thanks, tom. we're asking our concessioners to carry more healthier products than hot dogs. the concession contracts are awarded through open competition. we ask for a request for proposal and put out for bid. we look at a variety of things. not just how much they will pay in terms of franchise fees, but the quality of the experience. the ability to manage within national parks are often within historic structures. we have these old structures in the grand canyon that need to be cared for. they aren't exactly your typical hotels. they are all kinds of challenges. $1 billion is the gross, they

are putting a lot of the resources back into the building. in terms of revenue to look at from a formula andpoint, it's not just what we retain. we are going through a new round of competion with the contracts and resulting in a significant increase in the franchise fee. it does not go to the federal treasury. gets back tos to improve the public's experience and the resources. host: we have a tweet from save the republics. national parks used to hire our four-year college students. do you still do this or hire from the hb visa? guest: last year, we were 12,000 plus young people in this country. almost, i mean, we areot

hiring through the hb visa program. some of our concessioners are hiring that. in terms of federal government, when we hire thousands of seasonals to work in the parks, they are all american citizens. ho: are they assigned based on where they come from and keep them within the region where they are from? it seems like if you go to new york, you're more likely to here a park ranger with an eastern c accent. guest: if you go to dth valley, you might hear a new york accent from one of our seasonals. it's exciting to get out and work in these remote natiol parks and bush, alaska, the california desert or high

sierras from across the country. host: our next call from queens, new york on our democrat line. fred, is that you? fred is not there. fred? tell us a little bit about how you got started as a park ranger in 1976 and worked your way up to becoming the director of the park service? guest: i started as a seasonal right out of college. i started right here in washington d.c. in the bicentennial. the country was hiring its 200. i was hired to help with that on national mall. i worked my way up. guadalupe in texas. i went to alaska, which is bush alaska.

13 million acres, 60 below zero in the winter. big bears. big salmon. i came back at superintendent as mount ranier. i had hawaii, guam and the sierras. i was asked to come back and serve as the 18th director. i went through senate confirmation and have been back here since. >> earlier this year, there was three hikers in yosemite that went through a waterfall and presumed to be dead. what the park system doing to keep them safe? guest: the experience was very

tragic. i hate to hear about those things. in our job, we are to inform the public to protect themselves from these hazards. it's really not our job to fence off the hazards of the national park. part of that is part of the experience. to see wild america, at least as much that we can create. in the case of the myrtle falls incident, there is a barrier and signs. unfortunately, these individuals crossed those, entered the water, slipped and went over the falls. it's incredibly tragic. we will renew our efforts to warn the public about these thing. yosemite this time of year would

have very, very low water flows. because of all the snow, we got in the sierras and the snow pack. the big waterfalls are running quite high. frankly, big water like that in our parks is one of the biggest hazards. people underestimate the coldness of the water, the swiftness of the water and the slickness of the bottom in many cases. these waterfalls are ver dangerous and we put up asany signs as we possibly can to warn the public not to get in the water in these swift, cold streams but people do. host: back to the phones. kenny, republican, you're on th jon jarvis, director of the national parks. caller: earlier a man mentioned agenda 21. it's something bill clinton

signed into law that allows the u.n. through sustainable development to take control of our water ways, our works, our national land tough program called sustainable development. it is going to set all of our land off to the sign where we can't touch it, use our natural resources. for a director o this system to say that he does not knowbout it, to me, is saying that you don't know much about your job. the e.p.a. is bound and determined to get control of all the waterways, the core engineers have gone along with this program. i don't believe the national park system isn't either. host: we will leave it there. rry in kansas city. guest:. i wouldsay, i do know my job. i have worked for 35 years in the park system. i have been in every meeting,

the words "agenda 21" never crossed anyone's lips. there's only one agency in charge of par and that's the national parks service. we have no agenda to manage. the great thing is the parks were set aside for everyone, everyone in this country to enjoy. i'm not aware of any plan under agenda1. host: dax from chattanooga, tennessee. caller: good morning. i was wondering what you think about bringing back the c.c.c.? guest: well, it's a great idea. dax.

the civilian conservation corps, my father was a c.c.c.er in damascus part of the virginia. i'm very aware of it. we have kind of a c.c.c. today. mostly youngpele. our civilian, our youth conservingation corps. we work with the corps network to bring these people tother. if w think about the economy at this time, and all the challenges we have on the ground with our infrastructure on public lands, that some concept of a new c.c.c. is a great idea. an opportunity to put people back to work, and to repair all these places, these sacred places. i would be very supportive. it's not going to be exactly the same as was done with f.d.r. i think something like it could

work. host: here in washington d.c., these capitol bike shares are very popular except for on the mall. they currently prohibit that because of federal laws passed by congress that preserve the nature of national parks says bill lie. my question is, you can't rent one of these bikes on the mall, but you see bicyclers on the mall all the time. wouldn't this be an opportunity for the park service to make some money in this current time that we find ourselves in when people are trying to find ways for the federal government to reduce its expenditures, this would be a way for the park service to pay for itself? guest: let me put a couple thing in context. the article said we treat the

national mall by the grand canyon. absolutely. it's a national asset. has more visitors than the grand canyon. that's the front lawn of the country. we celebrate the tragedies of our country. e greatest leaders. george washington. it's a sacred ground and we need to treat it that way. i have not evaluated this particular proposal. we get hundreds of proposals to do things on these lands and lands in the national parks. we evaluate the purpose of these things. the real purpose is to provide a great experience not make money. we could lease out all kinds of things that would makeney. i don't think that's what congress expects of us.

the national parks are a small sliver of the public estate and we have to be very careful and thoughtful before we make decisions that commit these lands no matter how valuable they would be. host: alaska, wisconsin on our line for democrats, stephanie. caller: yes. the question i have as a youngster and still do travel the parks, in the late '50s, there was a project called project 66 to update the national parks. my question is, is there a plan to do another project like project 66 again? guest: you're talking about mission 66, it was lead by then

director george hertzog and a return to the world war ii veterans. we needed to upgrade our parks so we built new facilities. we would like to have something analogous to mission 66 for the next responsibility of prervation. the stimulus act give us a billion dollars and we invested that in the system. it would be great to have more to prepare us for 2016 and beyond. it will be the 100th birthday of the parks and we are developing a plan to prepare the parks for the next stewardship.

host: our next call, los angeles, california. caller: good morning. my complements to c-span. i have gone to the entrance of grand canyons over the years. i am horrified by the burnt-out areas. my simple solution is, we have massive unemployment. one of cheapest things we have is plastic. it's recyclable, why don't we get a massive program for young and retired people to lay lines made out o repsychable materials. it would go 12 to 14 inches in. probably every mile put a pumping station in. when these fires come up. open the pipes. i love america and my parks.

i don't like to see these burnt out areas. i mentioned to my son, why don't they lay pipelines? host: peter, we're running out of time. guest: fire is part of system. we are suffering with a problem we have been putting out fires for too long and have this incredible build upf fuel. ulmately, fires are going to burn. no amount of technology, even your idea would necessarily stop a fire. we are seeing incredible fires burning across the country. the real goal is to use fire as a tool. and yes, it blackens the ground and blackens some trees, but we need to remember fires have been burning in this country for millions of years. they will burn into the future

and we just need to be really smart about how we use >> a discussion on the impact of the arab political protests. after that, author eric larsen. >> it is now telling the story of the eyes of the justices themselves. the 11 original interviews. as the nose supreme court justice. >> some scholars warned that the

continuing political protest could have dire consequences than nations. the center for scholars suggested this discussion friday. this is about one hour and 15 minutes. >> good afternoon. thank you all for coming. executive vice president of the woodrow center. >> this is a meeting that is precisely what they do best we bring the most important issues to public finances in ways that are extremely timely.

the middle east program has done something like 25 meeting since january on what has been happening throughout the middle east. the session sell -- have included two or three on libya and many on egypt. it includes allegations that come further algeria and from egypt. they include public talks by two female ministers. the only woman who is serving in the traditional parliament. we are happy to come here and

talk to you about it. you'll be hearing from to seniors dollars. he produced a paper leicester that we published an titled egypt of the tipping plant. this helps start during some rolling. he is going to talk for about eight minutes follow. we will do the most important thing, open it up to all of you. >> >> good afternoon. i'm going to talk to you about the counter revolution under way. we will look at the monarchies. there are eight in the world.

six of them are here. this is what we of looking at. i have been here and morocco. i will talk about what this all there. as i says, there are eight monarchies. most of the ems have a lot of

wealth of that gives them enormous latitude about how they are reacting and will continue to react. morocco and jordan did not have it. the others do. this has allowed them. they can try to deal with the unrest by reducing government subsidies. there are bonuses for workers. they made basic food items for one year. saudia arabia's than a hundred $35 billion trying to do with them.

that has been the general reaction. the two most conservative reactionary monarchies does happen to be the ones that are extremely important to the united states. this is the key to stability in the world and to the defense. and to the flow of oil out. it is purchasing $60 billion. it is quite important. it is to the entire world. it is the home base for the fleet. that is about 40 vessels.

they have been there for decades. they go out and goes to the gulf toward this. it is very important. they have done everything possible to crash any fine or effort of reform. in the case of saudia arabia, they're quite successful. exactly one person showed up. that person was swamped by journalists. 17,000 people had signed up on the facebook page to come out

and participate. they're able to mobilize was when the threat of security forces cutting down, they have a religious establishment. they succeeded. it was much messier. yet a shiite majority. they were on their way to overthrow the monarchy.

in. saudis move the they crushed the uprising. i think the united states is really facing a very difficult problem. to promoteg democracy. protection of human rights. if we follow through, we are likely going to end up with a shiite dominated government.

it can move the country forward and out of conflict and instability. we have a lot of anecdotal examples of the way projects of the community level mitigate conflicts. in a few different areas in the north, there is a lot of conflict between tribes that is

created by access to water for farming. programs that have been adjusted doing simple repairs for irrigation canals have been neglected. they're having a documented impact on the communities and how they're able to work out conflicts over water access. we see a lot of examples like that. our goal is to see that add up. they have a bigger impact as a whole. >> we can get to the second part. we are living in an environment here. i think taxpayers need to see results. they did not expect these in two months. over a year, we can make that

comparison. some of what you have here are results. when you say there are 1500 midwives, that is a result. it will give a good estimate. this is a result you can measure. in order for it to work, it will have these positive effects. we have to list, itemize, measure. i know that is difficult. i would urge you to continue to provide those. i'm almost out of time. but want to add a little more time to my question. there is the perceived linkage between poverty and desperation.

can you give us any insight into that? >> i think it has been documented in a number of analyses that there's a very strong link between economic opportunity and attraction to extremism. i do not have an assessment at this time of our use activities to be able to say look at the analysis. i would look into it and see if i could find a specific project level for you. i think it is a great question. justork that we're doing this summer reaching over 14,000 around the country.

it is extremely important. there are at least four different training systems that are providing entrepreneurial skills. we are also on the civil society side of the portfolio, in gauging to support emerging cute leaders. i think this is very important and working very closely on those activities. there are lots of outputs that we can point to about the types of could impact they're having. we will continue to make the presentation as strong as we can. >> i'll come back to that in a moment. >> we need to get to the next one. something that is of interest to me, can you give us your

assessment of how americans are regard to yemen? a lot of us are concerned and defended as to how prudently weaver held in pakistan. the're building it to floods in the valley. we put in billions of dollars. they have objective measurements should the favorability is in the single digits. that is pretty disgusting when you're spending that kind of money trying to help people. i understand there's no objective standard in yemen. it to be impossible to measure it on an objective basis. maybe from into total testimony

can you give me your description? >> thank you. in general, the experience is that the perception of american aid is positive. the way that i can help illustrate sex most poignantly is that we brand our assistance in most cases the route the country. it is clear. it is clear hewitt is coming from. this is important in terms of the messaging. it also means we're able to operate on our partners openly by the american people. this is well-received. it is done safely throughout the

country. >> what would be your gut feeling if they did some standard. what percentage of people do you think would respond that they were favorable tax >> i really cannot speculate. i also turned to my colleague. i am not familiar with data on perceptions. is there in new recent experience? >> i have seen some of the reports that have done some surveys in the region. i am not aware that there's anything done on yemen specifically. i can only share and digital evidence in terms of our embassy out reach until they mistreat cease -- until the most

recent security problem. we make sure there was a sense of there was more than a focus on the capital. that is sometimes one of the things we are accused of. the reception that the embassy colleagues have received throughout the country has been extremely good. in terms of specific information, we can look into that and see if there have been more recent calls. i do not have anything to share. >> thank you. >> did he have anything you wanted to add on the question of that link between poverty or desperation and extreme as and? >> i would like to address that. we know from pockets of pulling that the united states is much more popular. i'm sure there's more data out there that we can get you.

lester they hosted a large group of officials. i met with them to were three times. many other officials met with them. the desire to engage is very tempting. we have strong partners there. once they are unable by the political situation, they will want to collaborate with us to address some of vehemence challenges. on the issue of poverty and radicalism, it is important to underscore the there's not a direct link between poverty and al -- radicalization. illustrates that the position in the world is for. it is for because they're being

oppressed by others. our findings that are relevant to yemen -- to step back for second, if you look across the range of operatives, ones that have been wrapped up, there are people that have never known real poverty but to hide the leisurely developed radical ideas. it is important to deal with the fundamental socio-economic problems. one of the key drivers of radicalization is for governments reject is poor governance. this comes out in conversation -- one of the key drivers of radicalization for governance.

this concession conversation. there are things we take for granted. we consider it to the fundamentals of modern life. that is why the policy is so important. this is an important goal in its own right. they are for taking of the modern economy and world. they're finding equal footing. corruption and poor governance are key drivers. >> let me highlight one part of your testimony. let me ask you one quick question. you say that you're glad to have this. the united states has strongly urged and called for the government all acts of violence against protesters. i am glad they did not have to

comment on that. the point that he may, there's so many deacon make about the situation. we do not have nearly enough time. you say our strategy focuses on building the strategy of the yemen security forces to counter al qaeda affectively. i know you have addressed this already. what can you tell us about that ?ax when they se they want to be able to say that we're getting rebuilt here. the forces can do this on their own. what kind of progress report or indication can you give us about how we're doing on that score? >> the view from the administration, particularly from dod he was doing the lion's

share of the training. the yemenis are improving their capacity. they're making the progress toward being able to deal with the stress within their border. it is important to recognize that our engagement was interrupted for many years. yemens and not have the kind of mentoring programs that many of our other terrorism partners had. it is really when the obama and ms. trichet came into office that a review was done in march 2009. it was recognized that yemen was a major challenge. it was not until december, after

many conversations, that we really felt that they were on board with the project. these are the first actions against it. this was just shortly before the december 25 bombing of the northwest flight. this is a military and -- a civilian unit is making the progress. it is important that we give back. they can take on the missions they. need. >> i am sure members will have questions for the record. thank you for your public service work that each of you do. we will move to our second panel. thank you very much.

as we are transitioning, i will indicate that our second panel has two individuals testifying. the middle east research associates at the carnegie endowment for national peace. the we also have mr. daniel green at the washington institute who will testify. you will ask each of our witnesses to provide an opening statements. the first panel stayed well within their time limits.

we tried to be roughly within the time in that timeframe. i am not sure i said this for the record. this of the main part of the records. as will each of our ttwo panelists. if you could provide about a five and a summary view will .ave questions ticket mr mr. green, we will start with you. >> thank you for allowing me to speak with you today about the challenges our country faces. since the outbreak earlier, there has been a significant increase in activity in yemen. much of this has to do it the fact that the security personnel are preoccupied with

other regime changes. most notably, of the republican guards and members of the tribal confederation. there have been reports that presidents assad has removed security personnel from certain areas of the country in an attempt to prompt the u.s. to support him. security situation is deteriorating. the activities have expanded. they seize the ammunition factory. more than 200 alleged members in the capital which is east of the

major city. the siege is ongoing. they are attempting to retake the city. on june 27, several dozen an escape from a prison. these and other incidents have contributed. it enhances the ability to mount this. they will attack the future courses. it affects the u.s. national security interests. they need to pay more attention. as part of this, deals with a series of policies. the u.s. approach must be decentralized, locally based, and holistic.

they have traditionally been the greatest impediment to the countryside. with the present, burlesquing, urging president convalescing -- with the president, the less thing, we should form a political strategy. they need a robust program geared washington should consider a program. they can focus on commercial forces. trainers should deploy two of them. behrman forces would benefit directly. washington's understanding the dynamics would improve. the u.s. needs to express a

government strategy. the united states should evaluate the practical assets of the programs. some of them are on the capital. they can partnership with provincial governors. this might have a conflict. the decision was approached mitigate some of the underlying grievances. the u.s. needs to leverage the human terrain more effectively. the united states should consider the dedicated effort. they should extend the tour is a select personnel.

they should develop an initiative similar to the afghan hand initiative. these approaches will help the continuity problems. the u.s. should consider appointing a special envoy to supplement our work. and a system in regional -- and assist him in a regional employment. there is an overwhelming counter terrorism unit. thank you. at afford to answer any questions. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. thank you for the opportunity to

be here. this is a critical issue for the united states. i would like to start off by saying i think it is important that we keep in mind that there is very much we do not know but what is going on in yemen. it is hard to get accurate information. it is more difficult to travel. it is a very fluid and challenging -- changing situation. the initial fears of violence and how bad things could really go have not come to pass. there episodes of very severe violence. it has not dissolved into the civil war that many people were talking about. it still can go very wrong very quickly. he goes to the importance of why we're here today.

givens problems are very well known. they were gone over at length of the first panel. the family economy is at the heart of everything that is going wrong. we have rampant poverty. unemployment is officially a 35%. in actuality, it is probably much higher. a whole host of abuses. one of the highest growth rates anywhere in the world. it is very challenging. everyone knows they want to avoid yemen. no one can tell you what that looks like. for policymakers, it is difficult trying to come up with what you cannot imagine.

there are no easy policy decisions. if there were, we would have come up with them by now. it is important that we looks at this with realism. at the end of the day, the united states has little leverage. would it help to alleviate how bad things will be. it would help it to leave how bad things can be. much of american policy has been focused on counter-terrorism. all the efforts of our government, i think the perception is still counter- terrorism. a kite is what they care about. there's certainly a need for this.

i would say that corruption is one of the issues we can focus on. these are things we can do to improve the situation. security and instability will come when these situations improve. we need to make sure that our policy is geared toward the republic of yemen. that is an important message we need to maintain. we need to focus our aid is not the only reason why we are interested in yemen. in my testimony, i got there in number of points. i like to spend a moment talking about a saudia arabia. after this local crisis ends, the economy will dwarf its.

the problems are overwhelming. the economy is on its way extremely soon. few have skyrocketed. the of the most vulnerable population. it is important to stress of there's not one in saudi policy toward yemen. i think they're trying to figure all of this out. security and stability is the key issue. i live for two questions. thank you. >> thank you. you did a good job on time. i wanted to, not by way of competition, to ask you first

-- you highlights one that you spoke to. testimonyear usaid's and you consider other evidence, how do you assess u.s. efforts ?n just those two death >> thank you. these need to be commended. there is more that we need to be doing. there is an estimated 800 of violence in yemen. they're fighting over access to water. if we're looking at tv consumption, it is all about al

qaeda and violence. it is actually something else. we can do more. it helps with rain collection and programs to deliver the message about how you use watcher. there is a huge area. it is terrible to think that when it rains in the capital children died. we can do more to help them collect water. i do nothing with can do much on too many of these issues. " we can always probably do more. and not only affects everyone, but they can be the sources of future violence and instability. >> when you look at the question of those priorities, and you

said that aside next to the efforts your undertaking now, and the number of strategies, and we trying to do to anything sex to you think we should concentrate more on these priorities desks what is your sense of the way we are prioritizing this? >> they are geared to. everything else is after that. doingot think we're enough to focus on these issues. we have a near-term look. this is going to take years. if you look at the central problem, howdy improve the relationship between big numbethe government?

tried to get them to believe that the government is not working against them? in place for you have a state authority, this was an issue. it will be an issue going forward. let us be outlines testimony fos i am sure -- number one, and expanded trade initiative. no. 2, a more robust effort. he also outlined and mapping of yemen's human terrain, a new initiative there in a similar undertaking in afghanistan. fourthly, a plan of a special envoy -- appointment of a

special envoy. when you make these recommendations, are you saying we're not curly undertaking any of them or do you see some of them as an expansion of what we are doing? or as i was in before, more of a focused approach? >> sir, i served in iraq and afghanistan. you see again and again, usaid, the state department, having difficulties. it when i started working on yemen, it is a familiar situation to me, although, it is not iraq and afghanistan. it is focused on working with local partners that may or may not work in the areas we are mostly concerned with. it is overly centralized, very focused on process and sort of the factions that in the national capital. i cannot take with the political opposition is.

that is the political opposition we need to be worried about. but we do not have a good understanding of the human terrain. and iraq, could almost happen by accident. -- it on this happen by accident. i think most of our human terrain is probably focused on the counter-terrorism mission. it is not about the human terrain that leveraged it. we have a sensitivity, and interest of the people. >> you mention in your testimony and number of times about the everything we should undertake in the countryside. >> yes, sir. >> how the best describe that? i realize we make efforts in another country that are focused on a big urban area or the capital, but can you describe what you mean by that and why is

of particular concern in yemen? >> going back to iraq and afghanistan, we seem to have to relearn some of these lessons that some much of the situation on the countryside affects our ability to influence that often through national level programs or national implementing partners. for one reason or another, to knock a lot to areas that are too dangerous or considered strategic. i think that is the same problem we have in yemen. no one wants to send anyone into harm's way. at the same time, no one wants to see al qaeda have a successful attack. there has to be something we can do between the sled and white -- left and right parameters. >> is there a model you can point to an iraq or afghanistan or anywhere where you think we

can draw a lot of good inspiration that is not capital or embassy centric, but is more local and countryside in nature? >> yes, sir. there is district support teams, which are three personnel. in yemen, we have the civil military support elements. it is an interesting innovation. the people who principally minute our military, but wear civilian clothes. they're doing that human terrain mapping. it is a small program, and classified program, but i think it is what we could address some of these problems. my preference would be state department aide people. our force protection is so great, of is the, no one wants to lose a life unnecessarily.

-- obviously, no one wants to lose a life unnecessarily. these are compatible goals. i do not have the responsibility of governments here, but we have a lot of lessons we have learned in iraq and afghanistan. we seem to be chronically for getting some of those elements. >> he said in yemen now, we have the foundation that needs to be -- >> i think needs to be expanded significantly. we have folks who have been out in these areas where it is dodgy. in some ways, yemen looks peaceful. >> thank you, very much. senator, rich? >> first of all, thank you for your pragmatism on these issues. sometimes we do not get a lot of that here. we're not always good at pragmatism, so i appreciate those. i appreciate your views.

we really should focus on what we can do, not only what we should do, but what we can do because we lose sight of that a lot of times. we get bogged down pretty badly if we lose sight of what we can do. yousef was getting more difficult to travel around the country. in what regard? are you talking about mechanically, physically, or from a security standpoint or what are you talking about? >> what we're seeing as the situation has deteriorated in yemen, it has become less safe for foreigners, for americans to travel in parts of the country. right now, there is some sort of limbo the president is recuperating in saudi arabia, the fighting is in some sort of a lull. i think people are fearful it will start again. even in the capital, where foreigners spent most of their

time. >> i appreciate hearing your views from the average, if there is such a thing, yemeni, how do they view americans? >> i think like anything, if your principal experience with a country is kinetic, you tend have a darker view. when house and afghanistan, -- went i was in afghanistan, most of my views were building roads and schools, so i attended have a positive aspect. not many americans -- the little interaction they have had has been through let's say a predator strike or something, they may have a dim view of that. it goes back to whether there were civilian casualties involved as well. my sense is there is an openness to our presence there, but how where there is more important

fact we are there, i think. >> i think i would have a more pessimistic view on this. that having any data in front of me, i would venture to guess the view of the united states is probably less positive than was alluded to in the previous panel. there is a difference i think between perception of american foreign policy, what the united states cover man has been perceived as doing. and if what they're doing is considered unpopular or how individual americans are perceived. i think it is difficult to get accurate polling data. a wide view, i would venture to guess is less positive than positive. >> finally, i want to explore another area of not talked about much. as we move ahead, how to the natural resources, gas and oil, play into all of this? >> i think oil will run out

sooner rather than later in yemen. there has been a variety of estimates. within 10 years, the commonly thought idea went oil will run out, cars revival will. natural-gas, the next 20 years or so. about $20 billion. $1 billion per year. that will not make up for the shortfall. the economy is in freefall. any government that comes next, who knows what it will be like? i am afraid there will look at the balance sheets and see there is no money to pay for anything. there is no money now. there's a huge deficit from last year. if they enact all the current spending plus the new spending at the start of the protest movement, that would be another 3.5%, which they do not have the money to make up. you the way, yemen is headed for financial catastrophe. >> mr. green? >> i agree with most of what he

said. we also have to focus on the state of the economy over there. undersecretary of defense brinkley's office says a lot of great advisory work with private industry in iraq and afghanistan. i know there is some effort -- i think focusing on the private sector is central. we do it here in the u.s. and have to do it there in yemen. there are plenty of people there who are involved in business and want to make money and help their communities. i think we need to focus on that as well. >> you said there were going to run out of oil. it is that because they have not done the expiration amy or just fat, physically that the reserves are depleted? >> i think several factors. the national operating companies typically do not go to yemen to look. only six production blocks are productive out of 90 or so. yemen is not blessed with the

hydrocarbon resources that some of its neighbors are. more and more, it is a difficult and averment -- environment to operate in. at its height, yemen was producing for under 50,000 girls per day, that dropped to just 200,000. recently, probably under 100,000. -- at its height, yemen was producing 450,000 barrels per day, that drop to just 200,000. recently, probably just under 100,000. >> thank you. >> i want to talk about pointed your testimony, the written version, the conclusions. you mention in the second paragraph of your section on conclusions some interesting topics, which weakened easily overlooked. "traditional training programs can help promote fair practices and improve conviction rates.

research demonstrates abuse by police intelligence and domestic security agencies leads to future recruitment and radicalization." what can you tell us more about that? what can you tell us we need or could be doing or are doing to try to move forward on their judiciary? >> if our goal is to improve security and stability in yemen, we can work to improve the security of the country to indirect means as well as the direct counter-terrorism measures that have been discussed earlier. i think he can make progress on the cross the line. you can approve the investigative skills to make sure the authorities apprehended right individual. and the testimony i wrote, abuse and arbitrary detention center, radicalization. not just in yemen, but

throughout the nation. we can improve the ability of judges and prosecutors to get convictions, improve the yemeni authorities to charge people by helping them trapped and implement effective counter- terrorism legislation. we can help them improve prisons. this is a huge area. we want to make sure when people get convicted, they state incarcerated. i think there are things we can do all along this process short of the counter-terrorism operations. also, and those programs, you could do more english-language training, more rule of law attorney, turning on the connection between abuses and grievances and recruitment radicalization criminality, etc. i think it is an area we can focus on. it is something the american government cannot or should not be doing. we have friends and allies that do this well.

we need to look at this in a broader sense. >> i can should argue that would be linked to or focus on anti-corruption. tell us more about the connection between the yemeni and their government it is a broad statement often taken for granted, but the confidence in or legitimacy of mount -- and the support ultimately for a government of the people of yemen have experienced will determine so much. i want to get your sense about the relationship between the government and its people. >> i think we and our allies can

do a lot to help improve the capacity of the yemeni government to be a more responsive government, deliver more civil services, be in greater control of the territory of yemen. everyone is equal before the law. when everyone is prosecute this sam, when corruption at the top and bottom goes to the same process -- when it is a process- driven situation, starting off knowing none of this is going to be easy to do or that it is going to be completely solvable. i think if we make improvements on that -- there's a perception right now that the government is not working in the interest of the people. that is economics, social, educational opportunities, then i think you can do more to improve the relationship by

addressing those issues that comment yemenis complain about, about government abuses, about unequal application of the law. >> i was going to ask mr. green, there are a number of scenarios that some have sketched as to the succession that will take place. do you have any sense of what is most likely are what is maybe most optimal for the people of yemen in terms of transition to a new president or government or new era, really, after more than 30 years of rule? what is your sense of that? >> sir, a lot of this hinges on what president saleh is going to do. it seems the factions in the capital are at a political

stalemate. i would like to think of whether it is going to be revolution, evolution or the evolution. there's some new ways we could go. not just in sanaa. certainly there's going have to be some sort of process. baby jessica will be the day. that would be 60 days since president saleh left saudi arabia and the constitution says there has to be an election around that date. that may be some sort of mechanism for the way for. the election has to have the confidence of the people of perceived as legitimate, and has to be some likely out separatist and to help monitor that. those normal, suspects, if you will, -- as normal suspects, if you will print it might require un presence or other presence. >> what you think is optimal?

>> frankly, there might be an evolutionary process. i do not think we will see a complete setting aside of saleh and all of his supporters. part of the political geography, will not go away. no one can force them to, if only for the fact they are armed. there might be some sort of parliamentary system that develops or elections were some of these factions fill the have representation and there may have to be some element of power sharing. getting people to walk back from shooting at each other will have to be a process. electoral process is another challenge to meet that goal. >> anything on this, doctor? >> i think we do not know how things will turn now. most likely, -- i would tend toward the review system where the elite in the country, the power elites inside and outside the regime come together to have

some sort of negotiated settlement. we do not see much of a change in the system. i think there is a belief in yemen and the region that no outside a factor wants to see the change. should that happen, i think the youth of the civil society, the protesters as started this, they will not be out. they do not have the constituency behind this. the one group talking about things our government talks about, accountability or transparency or freedom for democracy, i would like to see elections. i would like to see transition. i think how the yemeni government will deal with that is yet to be seen. there are a lot of things that are still unclear. it seems to me calling for early elections and moving toward some sort of transition is what has

happened to get out of the situation. the president has already said he will not stand again for reelection in 2013. that his son will not contest the election. i think we need to start the process and move toward it. the u.s. cannot to prepare for that eventuality, -- the u.s. can help to prepare for that eventuality. the gcc and the plans that have been endorsed call for quick elections. i'm not sure that is in the best interests of yemen or security stability in the region. >> mr. grant, how about al qaeda? we reports about al qaeda generally. a lot of news and a lot of focus on the may 1 and may 2 with regard to the killing of osama bin laden. of course, inappropriate shift in focus to a place like yemen.

-- appropriate shift in focus to a place like yemen. i think some folks would say that is where they are the strongest or seem to have the strongest foundation in place, but what is your assessment today with regard to aqap, is strength and viability in al qaeda, and generally, forces today and where we were six months ago. >> there is low level of activity that is often mistaken as criminality. you'll see bank robberies, occasional killings. a lot of these are precursors of the beginning of an organization. they're gathering money for future operations. they acquired more weaponry. the fact that could now -- i do not understand how many were involved, but at least 200 if not more, to overrun zinzibar.

it takes a lot of people at minimum. also the ability to communicate and confidence of the regular foot soldier in his leaders to take and hold land. that is the measure of the estate of a particular organization. that is true for taliban as it is for any iraqi insurgency group. i think now have an internal safe haven. a lot of our folks have been on the violence. i would like to think sometimes there are areas that have no violence, that is coming up, it does not control it. i think if you look as some of the provinces, these places -- there is an absence of violence. this coming violence is absent, if you will print -- that just a minute pilot is absurd they have with a need to fund, to recruit

>> you would say whether it is comparing now to six months or even year ago, he would say that launch anacity to attack, a strike on our homeland has been enhanced as opposed to degraded? >> their capacity to do so has been increased. we responded to the various attacks, more preventive measures. in some cases, going after them. with an industry that is on lockdown, on reduced manning, we're not completely blind we are very much operating in the dusk, almost by time but if we do not have a good understanding, i believe the house of the capital regions or the city's, it makes it difficult to plan. we have to incur some risk and to some of our personnel out in areas -- i am not saying put 12

americans in that province overnight, but there are ways that can give us a little more for the deployed inside the country, if only to improve the dynamics -- understanding the dynamics, let alone, and flensing or shipping them. >> doctor, anything on the security front? >> i would add to that. we see the government spaces will be larger. it either by choice or -- >> under gavin? >> under govern. intentionally or as things fall apart in yemen. i think we aqap as an organization increasingly opportunistic that demonstrates a very quick learning curve, very clearly, it has intention and capacity to strike yemen

regionally and internationally. it seems they have the capacity to do so. not just in yemen, but the other side of this, the potential for aqap to reach back into committees in this country and in western europe in english language, non-arabic language materials, through the internet, to reach individuals that are not otherwise part of the counter-terrorism landscape. there is another issue today that has been released. the organization is continuing to do this despite what we see going on in the country. >> i think we're ready to wrap up. anything you there are witnesses want to say for the record -- anything any of our witnesses want to say for the record? what we need to hear in the senate and the house? areas you think we need to focus on in the next couple of months?

>> one thing i realize we have challenging economic times and fiscal times. i think sometimes we mistake throwing lots of resources as a problem as a possible strategy. i think how we organize is a heckuva lot more than how much money we're spending on things. my experience working with afghans to of never met an american, we have to incur some risk on our side of cutting up behind his concrete walls and sanaa and living amongst the people. we consider with provinces that are relatively safe or safer, at least. if only to learn lessons. i think we get focused on how much money we're spending or not spending. i realize a the end of the day, that is the big challenge. that is something to think

about. >> doctor, anything before we go? >> i think recognizing the economic challenges -- as was mentioned, we do not need to find the high cost, high impact solutions for some of these challenges. i think there are lower cost, high impact things we can do that would make a big difference. this comes back to a fundamental challenge. we do not resource this issue, in yemen, the way we talk about it. we have heard all kinds of counter-terrorism officials talk about how aqap is the biggest threat, but we do not resources anywhere near the where we do, say, pakistan. we know what will happen in the amount if we do not do anything. after the next attack or after things fall apart for the in yemen, it will get more difficult. as painful and difficult as

these choices are now, there are less, if your options in the future. >> we are out of time. the record will be open for questions that members can cement. thank you for your testimony. we're grateful for the time spent with us. we are adjourned. >> next, q &a erik larson. today, the system to defense

minister talks about egypt's transition erp -- period. live coverage from the u.s. institute of peace today at 12:15 p.m. eastern on c- >> this week on "q&a," erik larson, best-selling author of "the devil in the white city" and "thunderstruck." he discusses his latest book "in the garden of beasts." it is a historical narrative following a family of america's first ambassador to enough fillers third reich. -- adolph hitler's>> erik larson, author of "in the garden of beasts," i want to get your immediate reaction. >> that is hitler in one of his historic speeches. historic speeches.