not washington post -- is a classic american story, a reflection about what our washington post columnist. country is about which is precisely why the ambassador has officials said u.s. customs and proven such an effective border protection said we are representative of our nation, moving toward satisfactory control of the border and that our interests, and our values, the declining number of and why i hope the committee can apprehensions of illegal migrants along the u.s.-mexico lead the senate in sending him back to prague as our ambassador border indicates a growing success in u.s. security as quickly as possible. thank you very much. missions. these remarks were made at the center for american progress. he is joined by the head of immigration and naturalization service during the clinton administration. >> you should feel free to introduce your family, and let us welcome them as well. >> thank you. >> thank you, senator lieberman, especially for sharing the lead story about the residence for the ambassador. as i said, we will begin the >> for the next hour or so, i panel with ambassadors will be moderating the

conversation between our highly ricciardone and eisen, and we distinguished panelists. will also hear the opening the last 30 minutes, i will open statement from ambassador ford, up to questions from all of you. and then take questions and answers. i will ask you if you can begin, keep your questions ready. mr. eisen. we will pass the microphone around. the subject of our discussion again, feel free to introduce today is the most recent chapter family or friends. in what is a rich and storied >> madam chair, senator lugar, history at our southern border. for the last 18 years it has senator clues, members of the undergone what can only be described as a dramatic committee, thank you for the transformation. opportunity to be here again in we are fortunate to be joined connection with my nomination by today by two people who can tell president obama to continue serving as united states the story of that transformation perhaps better than any two ambassador to the czech people in the world. republic. i will introduce them in just a i am honored to have the trust minute, but let me start by of the president and secretary setting the stage. if you listen to some clinton in representing our politicians and some radio and country. television personalities, you since you ask, i would like to might think that the last 18 years had never happened. introduce my wife, lindsay the story that they tell is one kaplan, an associate professor that is built on sensationalism

of english. and half truths at best, and representing the united states frankly, demagoguery and in prague is a family effort, and i believe the czech people falseness at work. they describe porous border is have come to appreciate my family almost as much as i do. populated by terrorists and when i was last before the economic migrants. they talk about spillover violence from the deadly committee, i reflected upon my cartels in the mexico side of extraordinary good fortune as a the border. first-generation american from they talk about the littering of the vantage point of our small fast food restaurant in los headless bodies. angeles, where i grew up with most importantly, what we want to address and tackle head on my check holocaust survivor, and today, they claim that the my father and immigrant from federal government refuses to do anything about it unlawful and poland, who could never imagined i would serve as an ambassador. as senator lieberman noted, and trees are at historical lows. rates of return and -- anything my mother put it recently, the about it. the fact is that unlawful and nazis took us away in cattle trees are at historical lows. rates of retention -- unlawful cars, and now my son has

returned, representing the most mighty nation in the world. entries are at historical lows. as that sentiment suggests, my mission is strongly informed by rates of retention are at all- my deep sense of obligation to time highs. this country. since my arrival in prague in unfortunately, sensationalism sells. false as it may be it does tap january, i have worked with a into what is a continuing sense talented team in three areas. a national vulnerabilit andin first, the defense and security relationship between the two countries. second, commercial and economic post-9/11 era. ties, and third, shared values that is why it is more critical of good governance and civil to tell the real story of the rights for all. evolution of our borders over in each area the relationship the last 18 years. was good, but we have worked based on where we started and with officials across the political spectrum, the civil how far we have actually come, i think we will be able to debunk society, and the people to make it great. the most persistent myths and in the defense and security shine a light on where we still need to go. realm, the czech republic is a i do not plan to gloss over the difficulties and the challenges staunch ally, increasing of managing a two thousand mile border that spans four states contributions in afghanistan

over the last year to over 700 and some of the most treacherous terrain in the country. i also do not want to ignore the soldiers and civilians. they operate in some of the most unintended consequences that have come from this border dangerous parts of the country, buildup and singular focus on and they have suffered numerous casualties. enforcement. when i recently visited but i do hope and believe that afghanistan to thank them for today's conversation is going to their service, u.s. soldiers help the public's understanding of just how far we have come in gave them high praise, and that what is really a shared included general petraeus, who objective, and that is to strengthen our international -- explained the critically important responsibilities that our national security and our allies are carrying out control the border. and who better to have us side-by-side every day. explore this issue than doris meissner, the former they are also a staunch friend commissioner of immigration and of israel, and a strong naturalization service when the supporter of u.s. policy towards border buildup began in the early 1990's, and the current iran. there are one of our best allies commissioner of customs and in europe on those issues and border protection, allan gerson. across the board. i am only going to briefly cover in their own neighborhood, they their bios, because a full are a leading advocate within the european union for countries like georgia and ukraine through description of their accomplishments and experience the eastern partnership would take most of the next

hour. initiative. let me start with alan burson. elsewhere, from cuba, to burma, to belarus, to north korea, they allen has been the commissioner are champions of human rights, of current -- commissioner of and we are proud to work with customs and border protection them on these issues. since 2010. the overseas 57,000 employees. looking ahead to the future of that is a small city. our defense and strategic partnership, we are broadening more than 21,000 border patrol our cooperation, developing an agents. approach beyond a single focus the commissioner has a long history well before he assumed to multiple areas of this position at the southwest border. cooperation with the czech he was previously the assistant republic excels. they are cheap operators of secretary for international affairs and the special representative for border helicopters and biological and affairs in the department of homeland security and he was nuclear mitigation. also in the 1990's the u.s. attorney for the southern in the economic and commercial district of california and the attorney general of the area, and the see prague has southwest border rep. actively advocated for american business. we have an open door for u.s. doris is currently a fellow at firms. i have met with dozens of u.s. the migration policy institute doing fascinating work and

cutting edge analysis, but as i companies. when they have concerns in the czech republic, we work to solve indicated, during the 1990's, the entire tenure of the clinton them, in gauging up to the highest levels of government. in ministration, she was the i've also encouraged investment in the u.s., traveling with commissioner of immigration and naturalization service's and really oversaw the initial officials to scout opportunities border buildup. her rich and frankly that will generate good, high- unparalleled experience in this paid jobs in the united states. field goes back well beyond that. she was the acting commissioner in our commercial and economic and the third in line during the works, we have emphasized civil first half of the 1980's as well nuclear cooperation. at ims. the czech republic has six operating nuclear reactors, and i want to thank you both for are planning an expansion worth your extraordinary public service and for taking some time up to $27.5 billion. to be with us here this afternoon now. it is one of the largest you represent, really, i think, opportunities of its kind in the bookends on what is this most world. recent chapter in our southwest if westinghouse, the u.s. border history. competitor, winds that bid, it while i would normally go first will mean an estimated 9000 to the commissioner, as a matter of etiquette and good form with jobs. to support that bid, we have

my first question, i think it is adopted a whole of government important that doris have the opportunity to set the stage for approach to establish a broad, us and described to us what was sybil, partnership -- civil happening on the ground in the partnership between our 1990's and what led to the countries. genesis of this border buildup. let me start with you, doris. from fostering new relations to do you think you could provide a making regulatory exchanges, to picture of what you walk into in working together to improve nuclear safety, our nations are building a model civil nuclear 1993 and where you carry that forward? relationship for the 21st century. >> thank you. i will do that. my third area of emphasis has i want to begin by thanking you been the shared value that bound for such a kind introduction and for all of you coming today to our countries together. listen to this program. it is always great to share the aspirations in the 21st century podium with the commissioner. were first realized by the i am looking forward to having pittsburgh and washington this discussion. declaration signed in the united the way that you asked me the states after world war one by question and the way that you set it up, you have to indulge the first president of me in a little bit of personal czechoslovakia, a revered names in my home growing up. reminiscing to get this going, because these stories are always the united states helped to

policy stories, but ultimately, liberate czechoslovakia from the nazis, supported resistance they often come down to people against the communists, and and particular circumstances where people are concerned. helped transform the goal of the so, to take us back, and it velvet revolution into reality. seems in some ways that we are i have. going back to ancient history, that message of friendship -- but we are talking now about the carried that message of early 1990's. the election of president clinton in november 1992. the announcement of my being friendship. my message is one of warm friendship, but also candor. designee to be appointed to the i have supported the initiatives commissioner pose a position was in june of 1993. of those in the government, and my confirmation hearings those in business, and the were in october of 1993. public that are working for good so we are talking almost a year government, and against corruption. into the administration. i believe we are building a after confirmation hearings in model for how to engage on those october, i was sworn in in issues. november of 1993, and that time, we have also worked with the what was taking place in the fall and in the broader back czech government to promote drop was very critical to equal rights and opportunities for all citizens no matter their understanding how it is that this issue of the border and origin or faith. order in force and unfolded, my presence in prague is by because during october -- border

enforcement unfolded, because itself a powerful message in the fight against extremism and for during october something happened in el pass so-called human rights, working with the talented inter agency team has operation border blockade. given me every opportunity to engage with the people and their government to advance common the chief of the border patrol goals and values. -and -- i am honored to tried a new technique. it was to take all of his represent our country and our government. madame chair, madam committee, resources from across the el paso sector, added to money for putting -- committee, i am details, overtime, etc., and put pleased to welcome any questions them right on the border. the idea was overwhelming force you have. >> thank you. before we go on, i want to at the border to see what would happen. and basically what happened was recognize that i understand the that it shut the border down. ambassador from the czech republic and to the united now, that made national states is in the audience. very nice to have you join us. headlines and national news just as i am going up to the hill for i do not know if there are other confirmation hearings, and of members of the diplomatic corps, course members asked about it. but welcome to all of you. they pressed me very hard to

ambassador ricciardone. >>, and very honored to appear pursue those kinds of tactics before you -- i am very honored where border control was concerned. to appear before you today as we had quite a discussion about president obama's nominee. what at that time was called i've worked in that capacity operation blockade. simultaneously, the attorney since january. general, janet reno, who was i am grateful for their trust also quite new in her position, and confidence in me, and with took a trip to the southwest me today is my life partner border, went to san diego and murray, why married in new saw the southwest border hampshire -- mary, who i married firsthand. she came back and said to me as i was coming into my new duties, doris, you must do something about the border. in new hampshire 10 years ago. sometimes that is the way policy we all have family connections to turkey and a great fondness is actually determined, and in for that country. this case it was very clear that mary has studied and taught my first priority was to deal with the southwest border, part there as well. i have had the privilege of serving in turkey three times. to give early the circumstances as we saw them or as they were through this time, i have taking -- particularly the observed the continuing transformation into a more circumstances as we saw them or

democratic, more open, more as they were taking place in san economically vibrant, modern diego. proposition 187 was on the state, and as a player with ballot. growing influence on the world governor wilson was campaigning stage. on the failures of the federal government where immigration was throughout this change and development there has been the concerned. that was buffered by a lawsuit constant of the continued commitment to the partnership with the united states and the that had been filed against the nato alliance. there also a member of the g-20 federal government by the state of arizona and i believe the now, and have one of the state of florida. fastest-growing economies in the there were several lawsuits world. noting their history as a suing the government for majority muslim nation, and a abdication of its enforcement secular democracy that respects responsibility. the rule of law, president obama these have been around for cited the role in helping to awhile, deborah ways, different players, but -- different ways, shape the understanding and different players, but in force stability in its neighborhood and on the border was essential. and around the world. if confirmed, i will do the question was what to do. everything i can to continue o m d said they would support cooperation in support our common goals and our shared democratic values. for decades, turkey and the and the -- omb said they would support a new budget focused on united states have cooperated the border. intensively to promote regional

stability, including by president clinton set a law and countering terrorism, resolving order agenda, an agenda that was a centrist democrat kind of priority that was intended to regional conflicts, promoting take the law and order issue energy security, expanding away from the republican party, trade and investment, and and border enforcement fit into essential and into gold to all of those, -- intragel expanding that broader frame. so, i went to the border control and said, you are the professionals. you know what is needed. democracy. if we really had resources to do the quest for peace between border enforcement, how would we israel and all its neighbors, do it? they came up with a plan and a evidentnd -- iran's strategy that led to changing the budget between november and december when it actually goes pursuit of nuclear weapons up to the hill in january, and i then spent a lot of time on the require no less sustained hill trying to convince members of congress to accept the strategy that we wanted to put cooperation, including the into place to change the dynamics on the border. relations with armenia. i remember in particular i have been privileged to serve meeting with senator feinstein, during the era of spring, where who was a central, of course, because she was from california, i've tried to enlist support for

a successful transition to and our effort was to persuade her that whereas there would of democracy in egypt, and in collaboration with my colleague been enough money in the budget and friend next door in syria to for 600 new border control agents, could we please hire heat the will of its people. only four hundred and 50 new agents and use the rest of that just as the turkish government money for equipment, technology, has played an important role in promoting these transitions, its support, vehicles, other things that would make those border government and private-sector support economic the elements in patrol agents be more effective? that was not an argument that egypt and tunisia better had ever been made before, and critical to long-term stability we had to really argue the by increasing trade and investment. wherever possible, turkey as a point, but they gave us the chance. they did change the budget. government and turkish firms are and we began then to set the looking for partnerships with standard for different kinds of american firms. while we share many goals, one budgets that were comprehensive of the most important is countering global terrorism and in how it is that you go about turkey has been one of our doing the border. now, those new resources than strongest partners. last month, turkish officials allowed us to mobilize a couple of new operations. arrested an alleged al-qaida the first operation was operation gatekeeper in san cell. diego, which was announced in ownupport turkey's

the fall of 1994. objective of defeating the terrorist violence which has led that really, along with hold to the deaths of over 30,000 the line in el paso which came at almost the same time, really since the 1980's. we strongly support efforts to was the official start point of improve the human rights and the buildup of the border that economic situation for the has continued through republican kurds, and their democratic and democratic administrations in the congress and majorities participation, and the rights of all other -- of all other in the congress as well as vulnerable groups in turkey. administrations in the white house continuously from that time through today. this has been an issue of we will continued to press for the reforms required. bipartisan support and it is important to note that the engagement from the start. turkish citizens themselves are now, what did we really try to demanding further progress, do? what were the key characteristics of these including freedom of speech and religious freedom. operations and a new approach to border enforcement? it is been my privilege to mid i think there are six critical -- meet with the heads of each characteristics. the first one is the idea of religious minority, the ancient deterrence through prevention. that is the idea that ryeys

jewish ensemble, the head of the first -- reyes first syriani church and the head of demonstrated in a pass up, that you move your personnel and effort as close to the actual the armenian church as well the line of bj in el paso -- in a u.s. -- as well. the u.s. supports a transparent process to strengthen turkey's basso, that you made your personnel and efforts as close democracy. to the border as possible. we regard freedom of expression as central to democracy and we traditionally, border agents had stood back and tried to cover and people once they entered the want to support the protections united states. that was a recipe for chaos and afforded to journalists and it was a recipe for all kinds of minorities. the president and secretary have corollary problems. established economic cooperation with turkey as a priority, and emphasize the importance of there was a famous soccer field promoting american firms and in san diego where every day as trade and investment. during president obama's meeting nightfall approached you saw hundreds of people on the mexico side of this huge bowl get ready with the president of turkey, they agreed to cooperating with to cross at nightfall.

military -- with military the border patrol stood on the other side of the bowl, and as leaders. people came across, the chasing it is no special privilege to began, and many more people return to turkey to strengthen the communications between our obviously got through than were people in all fields, including caught. the idea was move your people education, science, and health. forward, prevent people from entering in the first place, and i know this committee has strongly supported public bill then you will begin to get deterrent. -- diplomacy, and i will try to make a special effort to the second major principle was communicate with the turkish to concentrate your resources. people to bring private groups the concentrate resources meant to look at where the crossing together. the communication must be a patterns were actually taking primary means of advancing our place. and it was very clear, it had interests of all the issues we been this way for decades, that face together today. madame chair, ranking member, there were four quarters of high crossing. they were the san diego set senator, if confirmed, as in my there, el paso, and two others. service in all other posts, i if you could get control of will trust your support, advice, those corridors, and there were and that of your allies. a relatively few number of miles in each of those places, if you thank you. could get control of those

>> thank you. quarters, you would be ambassador ford. controlling 60%-70% of the apprehensions that had been >> thank you, madame chair. taking place, and those of course were the orders that were madame chair, senator lugar, linked to transportation routes in mexico. senator coons, i'm really that is where the smuggling took honored to appear before you place. that is what the network look today. like. so, the idea of concentrating i am grateful for the trust and confidence placed in me by resources in those high crossing president obama and secretary borders seemed now to make clinton in renominating me to perfect sense, but it was very serve as the ambassador to the different at that time and quite unheard of. syrian arab republic at a time what had happened prior to that time was what i always thought when it is more critical than ever that our voices heard of as sprinkle around, which was clearly by the syrian regime, that every sector, every chief and more importantly by the syrian people themselves. come every community ought to under the president's recess get pretty much a pro rated sphere of any new resources that appointment, i have been working came into the agency. in syria since late-january. that would make everybody happy, it has not been an easy job, but but at the same time, it never led to enough critical mass the strategic stakes and anywhere to actually make a opportunities for us that we difference. so, the idea here was to have in syria now are quite concentrate and begin to gain dramatic, and there is a hugely

control piece by piece by piece important story about the struggle for human dignity now under way in syria. of parts of the border, and to i arrived about one month before have more force available as you the protests started. are gaining control, and then in the past five months, they have grown slowly in size, and once he gained control to be able to leave enough of a residual force in place to hold now extend across all of syria. it permanently as you then began the protesters' demand respect to move on to other parts of the for their basic rights -- border. freedom of speech, freedom to the third big idea had to do march peacefully, a end to with the mixture of resources. we called it the people, corruption, and, above all, they equipment, technology demand the government treats combination. it was a mantra: people, them with dignity. we talked about the arab spring equipment, technology. in washington. the history, of course, was to the key word is dignity -- treating people with dignity. money into personnel the government's response has been brutal. it has been outrageous. and border patrol agents. nearly two thousand people have been killed by security forces, but this savings we did and thousands more are arrested and held in barbaric conditions. initially to have a mixture of

one cannot have but admiration people and resources carried us for the protesters' courage and through. we wanted to plant more sensors, but cameras in place, do night vision, all kinds of things that ingenuity, and that they have are now very familiar. stayed generally peaceful stadium lighting, re-con during despite bullets, beatings, and the constant risk of arrest and so that you had more access to torture. in my five months there -- vehicles, have enough vehicles, and one enormous innovation sari, six months, i have seen which was automated booking two principal paths in front of through a system called i dent, me. first, to convince syrian officials that opening more bringing that kind of technology space for syrian people to to the border. up until that time, there was a express themselves is vital for system that involved carbon the credibility of those officials, bad government, and copies, 3, 5, whatever-part form for syria, were largely. that was filled out by hand on top of the vehicles for each there have been a few small, positive steps taken by the person being apprehended. one of the things that happened government. they have released many political prisoners. in operation gatekeeper and the they have allowed some meetings other operations was that when people were apprehended, they by the political opposition. were brought into stations. however, as i said, in general

there was an actual cooking operation in place. their behavior has been everybody puts a finger prints -- there was an actual booking atrocious, and their recent actions that we read about in the newspaper these days only underlined again that the syrian operation in place. government is not willing to everybody had their fingerprints taken. lead the democratic transition that the syrian people themselves demand. this allows people have reaffirmation on what it was the my second vital function is to was taking place. -- real information on what it was the was taking place. work with the syrian opposition. i have spent enormous amounts of this was in s, in the department time discussing their ideas for the future and the kinds of of justice, so to mobilize -- and ims, in the department of questions that other syrians and the international community will ask about them. justice. it is really important now to ear and amplify maintaining aggressive community outreach was a major feature. that is where allen comes into the picture, as you have their voices, especially when mentioned. he was the u.s. attorney in san the international media is diego at the time, therefore the barred from syria.

i have been trying to draw the chief federal law-enforcement official on the ground, and the attention of the regime and the idea was, of course, the community to the legitimate constitution policy needed to support what the front line law- grievances the people have with were doing, agencies their government. the syrian people want to be heard. i wish the members of this committee could have seen how and that there needed to be enthusiastic the protesters were continuous communication and to have a chance to talk to the coordination along all the american ambassador. federal law enforcement agencies on the ground, and with the crisis in syria, however, is the government of mexico. we worked very hard at the national level with the embassy not about the united states here in washington and in directly. as i said, it offers us mexico, and allen and the chiefs and the border patrol officers opportunities to promote respect on the ground worked very for our principles, and our closely with the consoles in ideals, and opportunities and those locations to stop problems before they began, to keep them eventually to reinforce stability and peace in the from escalating when they did middle east, but syrians must come up so that we did not have resolve the crisis. international incidents and the manner in which the crisis foreign policy stalemates over is resolved has to be a syrian things that could be solved on the ground. one. that allowed us to do an

my job is to help establish the enormous amount of outreach. space for syrian activists, there was a press release for thinkers, business people, and every new agent that arrived in for the syrian people generally any sector on the border. to develop and organize the there was a continuous drumming of what it was that was taking political transition that must place, new things coming into happen if serious -- if syria is sectors. i think i know every coffee shop to be -stable again. in east county because we went to community meetings. we were with editorial boards the 23 million people of syria all the time. we -- i can envision the city are already thinking what happens when house side is no longer the president. -- al-assad is no longer the council rooms because of hearings we held with city leaders, etc. president. shaping expectations, preparing there is a vision of the people for the changes was unified, tolerant country were incredibly important all along the way. christians, kurds, aryans, they another thing that was extremely important had to do with the see themselves as syrian first, ports of entry. the ports of entry needed to be

and celebrate syria's rich, a central part of an cultural diversity. enforcement -- of the border a strong country at peace with enforcement mechanism. neighbors and exercising a stabilizing influence in the region. borders that worked to us meant a strong country that plays a responsible role in the broader preventing illegal crossings but international community, and a facilitating legal crossings. facilitating illegal crossing country that does not support was -- a legal crossing was iranian efforts to destabilize the region, or give support to extremely important and in some ways more difficult, because terrorist groups. as the president said on july that is where legal and illegal 31, syria will be a better come together. the more you tighten up its place when the democratic transition goes forward. legal points of entry, the more likely you are to have pressures hi, and my team, my colleagues at -- more you tighten up at the department of state, and throughout the u.s. government, illegal points of entry, the and most importantly, the syrian more likely you are just people, are working to make that pressures at legal points of vision a reality. madame chair, thank you for the entry. opportunity to address the we created a 20 minute rule at committee, and i look forward to key points of entry.

respond to questions of the appropriate time. >> thank you very much for your testimony. as i indicated in introducing the most busy border crossing in ambassadors eisen and the world was actually able to ricciardone, you were both observe a no more than 20 minute recess appointments, so i would rule through various techniques really like to begin this afternoon by asking you each to that the staff used. that was combined with fast address the situation that lanes in san diego and in a require your recess appointments, and why you passover and a couple other places now on the border -- in believe the senate should el paso and a couple other confirm you this year. i will ask you to begin, mr. eisen. places now on the border. >> madam chair, as you noted, that actually required legislation. we worked with san diego in particular to change that the czech republic is one of our closest allies in the region and legislation to make it possible to do fast lanes. in the world, and an ambassador was needed after a hiatus to the final piece of it was the work on critical issues like afghanistan, iran, israel, and border safety peace. as there was increasing success the potential $27.5 billion in closing off and closing the civil nuclear export opportunity where thousands of u.s. jobs. most heavily trafficked part of

it is my understanding that my the border, of course it pushed nomination was held over people to the less heavily trafficked areas and those concerns about a personnel tended to be more dangerous. matter held over my office when now people were crossing in i was in the white house. larger numbers in the nighttime, we attempted to resolve those in the desert, in more dangerous concerns, but were not able to do so, and given the important parts of the rio grande river in security and economic issues on which we work with the check, south texas, coming across the the president determined a research appointment was all-american canal. appropriate and necessary. now, the border has never been a since my arrival in prague, we have made strong progress on all of those issues -- afghanistan, benign place. it has always been dangerous. there was a lot of crime and a iran, israel, the nuclear lot of personal danger in the contract, and many other areas. soccer field area, etc. those remain as vital as ever. the highway, as the interstate i believe that progress -- the coming up from san diego always energy that not only i have put had big posters of families, of in, but the entire team have put in, and the good work that we a father, mother, child have done, i think, is the best pedestrian crossing because people came up the highway.

case for the continued presence they were not accustomed to what of an ambassador in the czech the interstate was like and they republic. >> thank you. got killed. it was dreadful. mr. ricciardone. so, the issue of safety at the >> venture, thank you for the border has always been an issue, opportunity to address that but what happened, of course, question. as you pointed out yourself, with these operations was that turkey is a critical country in a geographic place. it heightened and intensified. the border control had always been engaged in rescue missions it has influence in the issues of one side -- one kind or that are of strategic concern to the united states, and moreover, another, but it now became an internally, it is going through unpleasant priority to have water available, to have he a hugely important and empties available -- have emt's deliberate process of change with the turkish people deciding their own direction and their future. they do it to us as we go available. deaths at the border had always through it. taken place. they care about what we think. they had never been counted. we have a talented and the sea we made an explicit policy to keep track of that, to work with team that i found on a rival. -- talented team that i found mexico, to respond to the families, to provide on our arrival. information etc.

resources were deployed over they do a lot without an helicopters, a fixed ambassador, but have been an ambassador present improves wing aircraft in areas that were access, and the ability to speak not heavy crossing areas but for with people on top of the government, including the the purpose of dealing with safety issues when they're military, and the public. dangerous issues. i think the question of borders i'm greg -- very grateful that safety was one of the adaptations that was made that the president appointed me. i would have been grateful to was not envisioned at the been there in particular throughout this era of the arab beginning of the program but that had a very prominent part of it all. strain, where turkey has helped to play a stabilizing role. there is a report card for all of this. we probably want to talk about that later. there are certainly things we as a former member of the senate, i would be honored and have learned and want to do grateful to address any differently, but that is the report from the front and. concerns regarding my past >> that is fantastic. service, current service, in i do not think anyone else could turkey, or anywhere else. have given us the brett of thank you for the opportunity to challenges faced and the get at some of that today. thoroughness with which you >> thank you. faced it. as i understand, part of the what this suggests is that while we had some really significant

questioning, or questions that challenges that were right front were raised had to do with your and center in 1993, you spent tenure in iraq and as ambassador the next eight years adopting a to egypt. were there any particular series of initiatives and concerns they you would like to mechanisms to try to confront address that were raised? them, but still, in 2000, you >> i was very proud of my service not only in iraq, but can look at some of the data about how high the apprehension before saddam hussein went down, rates still were. there was still enormous i work with the iraqi pressure. opposition, the democratic opposition to saddam hussein commissioner, can you fast- forward or carry us forward from under president clinton and there to today, because that was secretary albright. my job was to organize, phase one, but you know, phase support, and help invigorate the iraqis that were working for two has seen perhaps an even more tangible said of a future. it was privileged -- i was accomplishments except privileged to be a part of that. i did that to the best of my accomplishments. ability. >> thank you. i think doris has done a is there are particular questions, i am not the terrific job of setting the interior -- entirely sure what stage where we were in 1993. in fact, as that was the same they are.

month i was confirmed, november i worked very closely in egypt, of 1993. not only with the government, just so you do not feel alone, janet reno said something very similar to me in december. but the theory we had was that we had to press on all counts, starting with a very stubborn let's take a look at what doris president in president mubarak, has laid down foundational you who was set in his ways with the so well and give it up to the present time. people around him, his government, his state, and very much his civil society. in 1993, recall that there were i was privileged to go to the fewer than 3000 border patrol headquarters of opposition movements to continue the flow agents from the entire length of funding provided to civil of san diego to texas. society groups. i ever stand remains an issue with the government of egypt. today, we have just under -- i understand that remains an issue with government egypt, and 22,000, a commission that i took up the issue with actually started in 1994. president mubarak himself. the budget deliberations that dorris described, and has again, i'm glad to answer to any continued steadily with major particular questions that might come up. i have made it a point to meet point being 2004, at 10,000

with all of the religious community leaders. it was one of the greatest border patrol agents, and we experiences of my life to have a have double the size of the passover seder in cairo. border patrol in the last six i met with his holiness many, years, with a dramatic impact on border presence. this might be no. 2 in time to many times, seeking his advice discuss why apprehensions, which are -- be an opportune time to of how best to advance the cause of freedom for egypt's christians. discuss why apprehensions, i met with the greek and russian which, having watched the border and participated for 20 years patriarchs. now, we have the most coherent on some, andd ,wo, w statement of what has happened on the border from 1993-2011 in terms of the change of equipment, personnel, infrastructure and technology that is available. lost others. >> thank you. but starting with the personnel, in san diego in those early years, there were fewer than 450 agents for the entire sector.

today there are 3300 agents. i was very surprised to see so single tasso. many of turkey's generals -- same in el paso. stepped down over the weekend, and i was wondering if you could give your assessment on what almost an increase by tenfold in that means for the civilian the number of agents. government, in terms of the military, how to interpret what this serious reaction pushed happened? >> thank you, madame chair. as to what this means for urban places easy, turkey, its democracy, its civilian government, the turks where you could simply walk themselves are analyzing all of across the border, get into the that, and debating it, and we transportation network, and then are asking them for what it move anywhere into the interior means for the united states and of the united states. if you look in 1993, the two our security relationship with places where most of the them. i'm very, very confident that it has not cause a setback in any migrants entered illegally were san diego and el paso. way. on the contrary, there is always a turnover at this time of year. it was not very difficult to walk across the bridge or walk this turnover happen in a different way, by means of a across, wade across the river resignation under evident from juarez into el passover, or

protest for particular reasons to stand in the soccer field -- we look forward to working with the new leadership -- reasons. el paso, or to stand in the we look forward to working with the new leadership. soccer field in san diego with this goes beyond individual. is based on institutions. turkey is a state of law, and strong institutions are durable, 40 agents holding maybe two people in each hand and everyone even though they are dynamic. else surging by. i have every confidence our it was not difficult to cross security relationship will be and then enter the transportation network of the strong, our leaders will meet united states. with the new leaders of the if you follow the progression of the traffic of illegal migration military in turkey. i'm very confident things will that crossed the border in the last 18 years, you will see a be just fine. >> thank you. my time is up. senator lugar. basic phenomenon of squeezing >> thank you, madam chairman. the water balloon, so that when ambassador eisen, the czech you actually have sufficient republic was expected to post personnel in san diego, which was the first place of the build up, five years later the traffic missile defense radar, but that plan was scrapped in 2009 in had moved out of san diego and into the imperial valley favor of the so-called phase immediately to the east of san

diego, and then in fact moved to adaptive reproached -- approach. even the prague announced they were not interested in the the next sector which was in arizona, and that took a process current administration's proposal, they appear open to considering future projects. of approximately 10 years. what do you see as the lay of the same thing moving west to the land there? texas. if you look at the specifics of has the discussion in any way disrupted our relationship, and apprehension in the rio grande how would you propose we valley, you can see that there proceed? >> thank you, senator lugar. was a movement of traffic which it has not. as you build up the border, the it has not disrupted the traffic would move west relationship. it has been an active steadily. conversation. i am pleased to tell you that the government is strongly fast forward to the year 2000- supportive of the nato missile 2001, the traffic was pushed defense plan, the phase-adaptive successfully east from san diego, successfully west from approach as adopted at lisbon, texas, and where did it center? arizona. and you are, of course, quite right that an earlier so, if you look at the conversation we had with the statistical data of government about a shared early apprehensions, you will note warning system, which was prior

to the adoption of a nato that the high point of apprehensions in arizona was the missile defense strategy at year 2000, in which 616,000 lisbon was overtaken by events. the czechs felt that the limited people had been arrested in the tucson-dallas corridor. data they would receive was no longer necessary, although we made the offer -- the offer because of the broader adoption that was the most active corridor. of the phased approach. in fact, it has remained the as a result of the good most active corridor in the united states. conversations, the good partnership between the just under 50% of all illegal government and the united immigration in the united states states, prague has strongly takes place in that corridor, embraced the phase-adaptive and what is noteworthy about it approach, as adopted by nato at is that it is not a place that lisbon. you or i or any criminal so, is full steam ahead. organization that set out to we are in as good of a place as find a place to smuggle people ever. into the united states would >> you have noted that a key choose. priority for united states arizona -- some of the most policy in the czech republic is to enhance regional energy security, including

diversification. spectacularly picturesque to in your view, whether the most rein in the united states, it is pressing areas for cooperation actually -- picturesque terrain in this sphere? >> there is a critical energy in the united states is also security issue in the czech some of the most difficult. republic. it is a very difficult place to 100% of the nuclear fuel is cross, and that is why the supplied by russia, 70% of their traffic centered there and by 2000 became one of the few places in the united states oil, 65% of their guests. where we had double digit levels we have made the versification a priority of our engagement. of apprehension. let me pause here for a moment the greatest single opportunity to describe the counterintuitive to achieve energy security is through the expansion of the measure of success, which is that we see a decline in czech civil nuclear capacity. apprehensions. we have six outstanding, high- taken alone, that would not be necessarily an indicator warren functioning nuclear reactors. index of progress, but in the contest -- indicator or an index they have a very strong national of progress, but in context, the commitment, with public support, for this critical alternative first thing that happens when you put a greater number of energy source in the 21st century. police officers in place, you

we have really focused their not see the apprehensions go up just on the westinghouse bid to because you have more eyes on the problem and more capacity to expand, which is a such a high actually arrest people. as the level of enforcement dollar value, almost $28 presence remains, you see a response by criminal elements billion, potentially, so many that will then actually u.s. jobs, but that is just one relocate away from that era at part of the partnership. and what we expect to see is to we've worked so hard throughout see the day that area, and what the united states government. one of the first things i did we expect to see is to use -- was work on a whole of that area, and what we expect to government approach to build a see is a decline of 21st century partnership that apprehensions. goes beyond just that bid. that in fact has happened all across the border. we are working on research and development together, education, when that increased presence of personnel is coupled with a regulation in baltimore greater capacity to test, you countries, and that has been -- in both our countries, and that has been an important part of our work. i've traveled recently to texas begin to see the success of the to sign an agreement under our joint declaration on civil enforcement effort. go back to 1993 and the soccer nuclear cooperation. field in san diego.

i think doris will confirm the probably twice the number of but it would -- it was between people who were arrested got texas a&m university and the around the border patrol, got nuclear networking and the czech onto the freeway and made their republic so are our nation's can way up to los angeles and live build on this in the 21st in the united states illegally. century. >> is their public support, today, the fence that exists ordinary citizens and understand the diversity problems? >> if there is. one of the most gratifying moments to me was the rational there in urban areas, because of and the calm approach that the the number of agents watching the borders and able to respond, czech republic top post- and because of the incredible of technology and so the fukushima for their energy needs. there is strong, national weekend detect a tense and consensus in favor of expanding nuclear. illegal entry it so that we can some of the risk factors that detect attempted illegal entry one sees elsewhere, whether it and respect -- so that we can

is a tsunami, or an earthquake, are not present there, so it is detect attempted illegal entry a good location for that and respond to it, that has expansion. we are pleased to work not just on that date, which is certainly changed everything. people do not experience what important, but on a broad they experienced in 1993 with partnership for civil nuclear people running through their energy security that is a model backyards, running up the for how our nations can work freeway is against the traffic, together. >> ambassador ricciardone, i have two parts of this. vans of illegal migrants first of all, turkey remains overturning on the road with high accident rates. that does not happen, and if you central of the pipeline project to provide for greater european go to san diego today and talk to those that continue to energy independence. i would like your views and what believe a secure border means a progress has been achieved sealed border, a zero tolerance recently, and where the project for any legal migration, you might stand as opposed to rival will not find civic leaders, pipeline project. secondly, turkey has been in religious leaders, community negotiations on missile defense leaders or business leaders radar for several years, with no telling you that the border is agreement finalized. out of control in the way that in arizona that continues to be there are several outstanding concerns for turkey related to heard and why the equivalent of 187 took place last year in

intelligence sharing with israel. arizona because of the impact on how close are we on bad deal? community life. -- on that deal? so, traffic gets pushed into >> senators, on the southern arizona. i think probably in fairness to energy corridor, of which the the difficulty we have had -- pipeline is a good option, i can because it has taken 10 years for us to actually get to the point where we are today in say we are intensively engaged. arizona, where the traffic has diplomats always say that. gone down, the apprehensions we are optimistic, and there is progress. i believe there is. it is complicated. from 616,000, last year was there are several governments and companies involved. 212,000, and the data this year we are in touch at all levels. suggests we will be about half i can tell you that secretary of that number, 120,000. clinton raised this issue with the prime minister, and the from 2000-this year, we have foreign minister of turkey, just gone down to 120,000 of two weeks ago. ambassador morningstar was all along. he also -- she also raised it apprehensions from 6 android 16,000, and that is -- 616,000, with president i have not had a and that is a result of applying this approach, the greatest

-- abdullah gul. assemblage of resources ever i have not had a chance to discuss this issue -- a readout placed by the united states in one place. from this issue. we are hoping there will be an we have technology in terms of agreement in the next month on cameras, radar that is far the company's concern to fill a greater advance to than the pipeline, come to terms on transit fees, and all of those technical issues. scope trucks that were in place 15 years ago. we are working on it, and we are we have infrastructure placed at hoping to get on missile defense, turkey did support the critical points. nato statement in lisbon. and remember, the fence is not a berlin wall. if we have moved well beyond the fifth hundred 50 miles of fence that exist in the united generalities to have detailed, states -- the fence that exists technical discussions, and legal discussions with the government of turkey. we are hoping they want to in the united states is an understand, naturally, what this means for turkey, in all of its attempt to keep people from having easy access to an urban technical, political, legal, and area so that they can find their certainly security aspects -- way to transportation and move away from the border. how will admit turkey more

secure? by having the high pedestrian we believe we are addressing fence, you actually move people those questions in full, and into the areas where they are substantive detail. maurer likely to be a pre -- we hope the turkish government more likely to be apprehended feels they have enough information to make a decision very soon i will be racing back because they're subject to to try to find out more. detention. the other 300 miles of fence are -- very soon. actually more like normandy i'll be raising that to try to find out more. >> senator mendez. >> thank you congratulations to vehicular barriers, very effective for what they do. we do not need a high pedestrian both of you on your nominations. fence in all of the border. ambassador ricciardone, i what we need in certain places enjoyed our last conversation, on the border is to prevent and i wanted to pursue items that have developed since we trucks and passenger vans from spoke, and one of them is with reference to cyprus. coming through. as we know, the parties are we use that infrastructure engaged in intense talks together with the technology, facilitated by the united together with the agent nations secretary, and i look at strength in arizona to produce the developments, and i look at the same affect that we had elsewhere across the border. what is happened with the military in turkey, which has there is no sector, and after been part of the challenge in my next year -- aside from arizona view of getting to a solution in

cyprus, and i've looked at this new development, and i wonder -- there will be no sector after how bad he sets the possibility next year in which we will have of making real progress -- how more than double digit bad effects the possibility of apprehensions. making real progress. we will drive them below 100,000 on the flip side, i looked at a in arizona and we will see the recent statements from the prime same effect in arizona that we minister which said forget about have seen elsewhere. what we have been negotiating in the last point, and then i think the past. we can easily open it up, it is this is now a two-state that there are a couple of very solution. it urges turkish cypriots to significant differences in the way in which we operate today from the past. doris pointed out the ability to migrate in greater numbers. that does not seem to be in line with moving to a solution. can you give me an update on diametrically -- biometrically your perspective since turkey is a key player, as to whether or not we will be able to achieve a resolution to the division of identify who is crossing. cyprus? are those factors complicating, the way it used to be done is opportunities -- how do you see it? that you would arrest someone on

>> i wish i could do the the soccer field and bring them diplomatic thing and say i am optimistic and there is into the station there was no progress, but i do not want to mislead. on the first part of your reason to fingerprint them question, i do not believe the because there was no way to changes in the military leadership in turkey will make check on who you had. any difference one way or the order patrol would write down other in terms of the prospects the information -- border patrol for the solution we have been would write down the information and maintain it in after for so long in cyprus. shoeboxes. i just do not think it is it would not be given correct entirely germane. the military is not calling the names. the descriptions would be like, shots on this policy of the "tattoo on right shoulder." government of turkey. fast forward to today. as to the prime minister's one of the great strengths of the border patrol is that when statements, i would rather not they apprehend someone, they can parse his statements and say tell you the crossing history of anything here that makes it any that person of the last 10 harder than it already is for years. they can tell you how many times the detonations and the that person has been arrested, secretary general's special who it was, where that person representative downer. was arrested, and what he has succeeded in getting a consequences have been applied commitment to meeting with some to that person. this ability to collect data

frequency, i believe twice a week from now into the fall, to allows us to apply consequences that we could not in the past press, press, press for the only due. in arizona, we have a consequence delivery system. shape of a solution that anyone has ever considered possible, which is a by zonal, bi nine of 10 people being communal federation. arrested are actually receiving the secretary ray is this one a consequence. they were in istanbul with some are being prosecuted. summer been transported away turkish leadership just a couple from arizona. -- some are being transported weeks ago. >> you really do not believe away from arizona. that the prime minister can make some are being flown back with the cooperation of the mexican his own decisions not withstanding what the turkish's government. no more voluntary returns. no mas on voluntary returns. government believes? >> i believe with the turkish government wants and believes it is extremely selling it, but i that is critical, because when would point out that even since we make arrests now, we know how i have been back to turkey this many critical individuals we are time, there have been some dealing with. tensions in the relationship between the community in northern cyprus that have come out to the forefront. have been protests, even, back- at the end of this fiscal year,

and-forth. that may turn out to be no more they identified themselves as , to be sure, but that than 65,000 unique individuals. that is important data, because then we can tailor consequences is a distinct identity. to specific individuals. the last point in terms of the beyond that, i would not hazard large difference is the openness to guess how far he would go in to mexico, the ability to communicate with mexico and gain the cooperation of mexican making decisions that would be authorities in ways that would have been unthinkable a decade at variance. >> i was not asking you so much ago and probably unsalable even about the prime minister, as three or four years ago. much as the assignment where you are at, and its influence in the decision making process. as a result of president obama jointresident calderón's from my perspective, following this for almost 20 years now, it efforts, the acceptance of co- is clear turkey has a significant influence in whether responsibility for border problems, we began to see a this is resolved in a way that is acceptable to turkish communication with mexico and the ability to work with mexican cypriots, as well as the law enforcement that was simply international community. i think it has become more not possible short time ago. onerous, not less onerous to try

to achieve that goal. that, together with the elements let me turn to another issue. of infrastructure technology, it is something i'm sure you'll personnel strength, are what have made the difference. want to be diplomatic about, and we have more work to do on the that is the question that as our southwest border and we will continue to have work to do until there is a legitimate ambassador to turkey, in this labor market between the united states and mexico. interrelationships with armenia -- from your view, as the united but measures by virtually any states ever denied the fact it metric, the border is simply not was an armenian genocide? good used to be. >> i stand behind president obama's characterization of the we need that to be a recognized feature and staple of our tragic massacre, murder of 1 political debate. >> thank you so much. thank you to both of you. i think you have just told, frankly, an incredible story million and half men, women and children in 1915. about the last 18 years and exactly what i was hoping we but, i stand behind our were going to be able to cover here and i did not even have to characterization of that, and prompt you because you guys our efforts of what we're trying cover it from beginning to end

to do now. in such a comprehensive fashion, >> would you disagree with so much that i would like to go president obama's statements as back and pick up on -- let me senator obama? start with one of the things you >> i would not disagree with my just touched on, commissioner, president in his characterization -- about the possibility of an characterization of this. >> would you disagree with vice absolute steal. president joe biden's characterization as senator joe eal.bsolute stea biden. -- joe biden? >> they are my superiors, and i would not disagree. >> would you disagree with the congress did not seem to understand that it was secretary of state as senator impossible. when they pass the border defense act of 2006, they were clinton? >> i would not disagree with my trying to seal the border from secretary of state. >> you are wiser beyond your any contraband or human beings entering. anyone i have never talked to or years. [laughter] seen quoted, everyone agrees >> each of these people as a that is a fundamentally senator acknowledged the fact impossible standard, one that the berlin wall itself would not of the -- armenians genocide have satisfied. during their tenure. but there is a disconnect, it seems to me, madam chair, and because i think that a lot of -- once again i appreciate your the average american, who does responses, but here we are not think a lot about this, and

again playing an incredibly considers the united states the most powerful country in history, that it is not that difficult set of circumstances where we have the nominees to unrealistic to think that we could actually feel that border. armenia going to armenian genocide commemorations and not how do you think we could -- being able to use the word "genocide. forums like this are one way -- all we have our ambassador to but how do you think we could turkey, who is an important overcome that is connected? party to move to the future, but because that is a challenge in our political debate going forward, when you have members if you cannot recognize of congress passing a law, historical facts, you can not signing into law, suggesting get down to the future. that that is viable, but we know you have our president, vice president, secretary of state, it is not as a practical matter? all who have very clearly >> 0 crime rates may be a recognize there was an armenian genocide. he is difficult to understand how we move forward in that theoretical possibility, but in the course of human events, so respect. i appreciate your answers, and i to speak, it is not happening. have other questions, but i see i think most americans will mr. ford is coming back at some point? grasp that. >> he will be here for the sealing the border, second panel. theoretically is possible, but i senator casey. think there are very few

-- senator sheenter she h americans who would be willing to pay the costs that would be involved. we would need on the order of .aan 400,000-500,000 border patrol i know time is short, and we're agents to seal the border using limited in the topics we are covered recovering, but i want the tactics of simply having to start with ambassador ricciardone. border patrol 25 yards from the we will be talking later at some agent next to him or her. length about syria and the massacre that is going on there. it is my sense, and i believe it the difficulty is not that the is widely shared debt over a american people would not number of years, if not for more understand it, but there is a than a generation, but volatility to border politics. certainly for more than the last number of years, turkey has been able to play a significant role as a regional balancer of the the occurrence of a crime in the community does not lead people power of the region, and as been to believe that their entire very constructive at times in the region. this is one of those times when

community is lawless. the world needs help that turkey i think this is a problem, but can provide as it relates to syria. these acts of violence against the sound judgment of people when actually presented with the argument, would you want to make the people of syria are not acceptable. it is a regime then no longer this expenditure for this result as opposed to dealing with a has legitimacy at all because of satisfactory control of the border that i think we are those acts of violence, and i moving toward, i think that is a case that can be made. would ask you -- i know the prime minister has been pretty >> i will turn the follow-up clear and pretty strong in his statements as it relates to what question to doris. if the ceiling is realistically has been happening in syria, but i would ask you to reflect upon unattainable or fundamentally contrary to our national and give us your sense of what interests, our economic interests, our relationship with turkey's perspective is on this violence, what turkey can do in mexico, etc., then how should we think about what is acceptable? the near term to put pressure on what is the standard or the the al-assad regime, and how metric -- and this is a question turkey can be a constructive that i know many of us have been force in the region on this grappling with -- what should we central question. be pushing forward toward in >> thank you for the question.

in fact, we have been engaged terms of what is an acceptable with the prime minister level of control? >> i think that what people directly. i personally have taken a consider to be lawless in their message to him from president community or not, the important obama. the president has spoken with thing is to be thinking about him personally. the border as an area of law enforcement. him, president abdullah gul, the foreign minister, they have all we do not expect any kind of law put it high on their scope, enforcement perfection. because they point out that as what we do expect is we expect that somebody is minding the important as egypt and tunisia store. we expect that when something are in their transitions, turkey happens, the 911 number is going to work. the police are going to come. shares a border with syria. there will be an ambulance it there are family relationships, needed and in the course of and an important trading relationship. human events, people will do bad and the instability in syria things. will have direct repercussions that perception along the border has yet to be achieved in the on of vital interests in turkey. as you pointed out, the prime minister had spoken out against interior of the country. what he called the barbarity of people who live along the border the fourth grade action in actually know the difference. one of the best examples is northern syria. something we know very well,

just yesterday, president of which is the tijuana river global spoke for all, responding basin, for therein from the to the images on turkish soccer field, which was totally television by saying that he was no-man's land, and is now a horrified and shocked, and he housing development. even noted that necessary people live there right on the border. sanctions might be on the table. you could not -- well, anyway. this is moving very forward. in el paso, same thing. it is one thing one western countries express our outrage, in most parts of the border they and talk about these things, but recognize that there is a difference. when a neighbor as powerful as but that has not been perceived turkey says these things, i have within the rest of the country, to hope the syrian government will pay attention. and it is also read the -- also i do not think -- i think the really, you know, the pot is being stirred in some places prime minister has made clear in along the border, mostly in public with the conversation with the senate delegation that arizona, where, most people will concede that there has not been we pressed to find out what the the level of control that you would want to have. turks were thinking. he made clear that he was very but i also believe that we have to do a better job -- the

upset, worried, concerned, but he believed that turkey had to government has to do a better job of really laying out to the exhaust every other avenue to evidence. because the evidence has to go induce change and reform in beyond apprehension and beyond syria, and get them to stop the violence against their own the way in which the people. he admitted that they had been commissioner explained apprehension. that is all true, but there is trying hard, and had not been much more evidence, there is an very successful. enormous amount of evidence in the united states, we find the way that allen described the ourselves in the same position, system which is being used tried everything to encourage, press, pressure to reform. my colleague will speak to those operationally in the way that has been described to determine in a few moments. we heard president of doable how the responses ought to be made to any particular case, but expressing turkey's sense that it is not aggregated. they have. -- gul could tell expressing it is not available as is citizen data, and there is a lot that turkey may have reached the of other reformation. end of that patience. all of the pattern in now, the >> with regards to syria, i want visual information from the borders, even if you cannot tell to turn to the question of iran. the whole border, you can tell we know the iranian regime has the key parts of the border

been the subject of a broader because of all the technology is array of sanctions, and that as there. been a very positive step in the right direction. there is a lot of unanimity in how many people are actually trying to cross as opposed to the region and well beyond the the number of people that region about sanctions against actually were apprehended? the iranian regime. i would ask you, with regard to border patrol is close to being that question, how you assess, able to know that and in many places it can do that. or how you think the turks can and there has to be, in my view, help us to enforce those a great deal more debate about sanctions to make sure they are enforced by their government, and to make sure they can be a constructive force in urging turkish companies and other businesses in the region to comply with, and not just comply with, but because the some of those iranian sanctions? we are all proud of how we were >> thank you, senator. able to create a different the turkish leadership at all management of the enterprise. levels, whenever we speak about overall effectiveness is what iran, are in fact that they are we achieving? oppose any iranian effort to now is the perfect time to do acquire weapons of mass

destruction. it. we are helped by the economy. they point out that there would be the first victims of not only jobs are not available in the such a weapon, but a race for united states. such weapons in the region, it is way down for economic which they do not want to see reasons. there is a convergence that has iran unleashed. they assert that they are taken place with border buildup firmly enforcing united nations that makes it primetime for security council sanctions, laying out the bigger metric including under 1929, in which story. they did not vote. >> the final point on the last beyond that, we have asked for specific health. remark on the economic impact. they asked that -- they say that united states sanctions do not there is no question that the apply to turkey, but they economy counts. acknowledge that turkish firms can be effected, and they will we know that there is a long- have to make a choice under our term trend of decline. law as to whether to deal with america and american companies, it has continued unabated since or iranian ones. 2000. we have asked them to go beyond it is to indicate that this is a that, and help publicize what function of the economic pulling that means in technical detail. if banks or other companies want of the united states and the to do business with iran, help push out of mexico.

them understand we are putting out disinformation, and we are the second point on terms of glad to spread that information. this paradox, people who live on we asked regulators and entities the border note that it is more to point out, remind companies secure than ever. you can confirm that by talking of the choices they will have to to every mayor or community face, and make the information leader from san diego to further available to the turks brownsville including the mayor and their companies. we're working with them. of tucson. they will confirm what the fbi >> with regard to cyprus, i crime statistics confirmed. crime rate is lower in border associate myself with senator mendez's comments about that counties than it has banned in the last 30 years. subject, and i know, ambassador eisen, i did not attend to guess that question, i will submit something in writing, but i san diego, phoenix, austin, think you know the high regard i have for you as well, and we texas, and el paso, el paso have a lot of mutual friends in pennsylvania. >> thank you. >> thank you, senator casey. having very few murders is just >> senator tones. a river away from juarez, argue -- senator coons. >> thank you. asleep -- arguably the bloody a

i wanted to thank you for your services for the last year. city in the western hemisphere. this is part of the calculus as i will not stay for the second we go forward. panel, so i wanted to commend >> i would just ask you one more ambassador ford for demonstrating real leadership question. then get your questions ready. and resolve in the face of very difficult circumstances in syria we will open it up for you to by both personally going to a present your questions to the meeting with demonstrators and panelists. i mentioned it in my opening protesters in some very difficult circumstances, and in advocating for our values and our interests as a nation. remarks. something that was on i hope that it is clear that many in this body share anticipated was the border safety challenge. there have been some secretary clinton's statement unanticipated consequences of that president assad has lost this effort. the legitimacy to lead. there have been a lot of unintended consequences, as with as it relates to turkey, i am any major transformation that concerned about what the effort. one is driving migrants to resignation of military leadership really means, the increasingly dangerous areas. tension between the secular military traditions, and the over the last 15 years, 5000 increasingly islamist tendencies people have died in the desert. of some in the administration.

i'm concerned about turkey's we have the effort to quantify relationship with israel. that tragedy. ambassador ricciardone, you have also, it has really increased chosen an interesting post to return to. the costs for people to come. as others have suggested, that is one of the goals, making it more challenging to enter the whether it is the relationships united states. there is something different. with greece, the challenges in iran, the relationship with aey are not just playing israel, there is plenty we can dedicate our time suit. coyote the standard smuggling i mean no disrespect to mr. eisen, but turkey has a rich fee to find the route that is menu of questions to pursue. the safest. many of the smugglers are under your last comment about the the auspices, loosely or choice that turkish companies generally, of the drug cartels. must make between facing sanctions, which is something i support and appreciate senator they do have their hand in all casey raising the issue. i think it is critical that we of the smuggling operations along the southern border. engage turkish businesses. now you have these economic i'm grateful for your leadership in opening the u.s. migrants that have been coming for generations for the singular markets, but i would also urge your aggressive engagement to the extent of progress in purpose of trying to find a job and working.

clarifying our very strong concerns as a nation about iran we have deliberately tried to end that practice and its development, and was pleased to hear the response understandably and justifiably. that in your view prime minister now they have been funneled in erdogan is being engaged and into these much more violent, effective in advocating for a much more nefarious and broadly-shared international roofless -- ruthless criminal concern for what i would view as crimes against humanity and by syndicates. i wonder how that affects your the al-assad regime in murdering their own people. missions and challenges? i want to associate myself with there are not any more separate senator nunn and does's strains of migration. questions about cyprus. they are being funneled into one what have you been able to do to super strain. promote religious freedom? you referenced a meeting with his holiness bartholomew. >> the first response is to continue what we started many what you think might be in store years ago with the creation of for restoring the theology, and the safety programs. the loss of 5000 migrants is a what can we do to be a more effective partner in advocating freedom and cooperation? tragic consequence of this transformation. for every migrant that has died turkey, for a very long time was

a vital ally of israel, and it in the desert, the border patrol is my hope that recent changes in military leadership might has saved two, three, or four. open a window for improved relations. most of what we have going on in arizona now in the height of the i recognize this is a difficult desert summer are patrolling for moment to get passed last year's incident. given the limitations of your those migrants that have been role as a diplomat of the united abandoned by coyotes in the states, and i welcome any desert. insight you would have for us and recognize that there are in 1993, most of the people wonderful allies in the conflict in afghanistan and iraq. prosecuted for smuggling were mom and pop operations. while pressing for religious people crossing the one, two, freedom and the importance of our relationship with israel. three people across the border. >> senator, thank you for all of the very loosely organized way. those questions. as a result of the unforced let me start with religious freedom first and then go on to effort, you cannot cross into israel. the united states without on religious freedom, i have enlisting or paying for a smuggler. raised this question with all of the fee for smuggling has gone the leaders i have been

privileged to see and then made up to no less than $3,000 a a point to call on community leaders as well. piece, which has led to the i wanted the community leaders' involvement of organized criminal syndicates of mexico in perspective, not only with this activity. property owners, but also the that requires that we attack the organized criminal elements and armenian community. prosecute the coyotes in various i have gone into some detail ways. that is a major focus. with them and learned the legal all of the tragedy is that we questions. they all have legal cases at one now read about in which large level or another in the turkish courts. i do not want to betray any of numbers of migrants, many of them other than mexicans, being their confidence is and these little things, but they are killed, exported on their way encouraged by the first ever north, is one of the contacts they are having with consequences that we address and high leaders of the state, i think is being addressed in the overall approach to a regarding their issues, and things that really matter in that part of the world. that is honor and dignity and supporting mexico's overall struggle against organized respect. they have had their first ever crime. we need to stand by with that effort.

we need to remember that it took visits by high officials of the state to them. us 30 years in the united states to beat the mafia. governors and others are coming it is going to take confronting to them. that has not happened before or and overcoming organized crime in mexico, it is not going to in anyone's memory in the modern history of the republic. happen overnight. when i raise this with high what is important is the officials of the state, they commitment of mexican society to do that, much as it is on the say why are you surprised. american side. they follow our debates about personal freedom and religious they have to control the plazas freedom and they say here is how you can understand this. and corridors through which they in your country, you have made a operate is a new feature. distinction between freedom of religion and the concept of the >> this is what happens in law freedom from religion. enforcement. for too long in our modern this is not anything unique to republic, we focused on this area. preventing the intrusion of it does not have to be that way. religion in our national life it will continue to be this way. and political life. we are quite comfortable to be the price will be driven up. observed as muslims. the more there will be please do not call us islamist criminality.

by the way. if you have a broader policy it really does not bother us at all. response to the legal why should it? it is no threat to the state. immigration, that takes away that incentive, if you create we are happy to have them do it. legal pathways for people to come here to work. if there are property issues it is a change that needs to cannot let us take a fresh look at it and make sure they get happen. it seems to me that the most justice. i do not want to betray anyone's important lesson out of everything that we have said, it confidence, but i dare be certainly was a lesson when i hopeful that the conflict will left, we certainly were swimming upstream against the economy. be resolved. for all of the investments made, it is his 40th anniversary for for all of the apprehension numbers, the size of the him as a priest. we would like to see it resolved. on israel, i cannot speak for unauthorized population in this country grew by at least half a israel. million a year because we were living in the long to sustained i do not claim expertise. job growth period in history. i feel very certain having discussed this at length with the prime minister, the foreign you must do border control. minister, certainly the military

you must do enforcement. leadership, that all of these it is necessary, but it is not deterrence, whatever their sufficient. feelings, misgivings, issues >> thank you very much. over the terrible flotillas of last year, the events in gaza, a perfect way for us to they understand that the conclude our initial discussion here. influence of the events in the i would like to open it up to region to be a part of a more peaceful region which is in questions from the audience. if you could introduce yourself their national interest they need to have a normal, fruitful, and tell us where you are from. >> this is for the commissioner. respectful, full diplomatic i wanted you to expand on the no dialogue with israel. more voluntary returns. they want to get back to that. this is one of the options for we have worked very much with many, many years. both sides and have reminded each with the stakes that they how does that relate to the have in the relationship with each other. neither side need reminding. attorney general's in different states that seemed to have a lot they know the importance of. of leeway on the decisions that the secretary of state has they make as far as prosecuting worked on it personally. cases. i dare be hopeful that turkey >> speaking first as a former and israel will figure this out,

and i hope to see the turkish ambassador back in tel aviv prosecutor, and this is true throughout the criminal justice very, very soon. system, it is the law to it have >> thank you very much for your hard work, mr. ambassador. criminal prosecutors. i am grateful for your advocacy it is up to the prosecutor who on behalf of the people of the will be sanctioned. you cannot accommodate the united states. >> thank you. numbers. when 565,000 people were being i have to go preside over the senate in a few minutes, but i are breasted in san diego in wanted to raise more and more " -- one more question for ambassador eisen before i go. 1993, you could not have critics of the administration prosecuted all of those individuals. have suggested that it once we have the ability to engagement with russia would, at track who it was we were the expense of our allies in arresting, we were tracking central and eastern europe. criminal aliens, those i wonder if you could speak to committing serious felonies. the czech republic view of the for most of the history of reset efforts with russia. border enforcement, the pattern has been to voluntarily return >> i think that the czech people. republic has come to understrand and appreciate the spiritof the that is why this is so significant to be able to

reset with russia and the identify the history of the crossing and the violator said that you begin to make the adjustment about how to deter benefits that that confers, not just for u.s.-russia that person from crossing back. relationship, but for the we still use the criminal region. the president has made prague a justice system to streamline prosecutions. the criminal justice system, centerpiece of these issues, even in arizona we are doing 70 going to prague twice. plus a day in cooperation with i had the privilege to accompany him last year for the signing of the stark treaty with president the attorney general. you cannot prosecute all of medvedev. them. we have developed a whole series of other consequences that in a recognition of the importance of these issues that involved either a brief detention and then transporting be person and releasing them in might check colleagues firmly embraced the so-called prague a far different place on the border, or bringing them into agenda and took the bull by the mexico under a program with the horns and scheduled an mexican government. international conference on the the intent is to separate the agenda and not long after i

migrant from the smuggler, who arrived in the czech republic to he or she has been working for commemorate the one-year by simply not returning the anniversary and a two-year person over the border so that anniversary of the president's speeches there. they can try to get there the next day. we had representatives from russia, the united states, and this exercise in discretion from around the world come becomes a lot more informed when you know the history of the including one of the principal violator that you are dealing with. advisers to the president on this matter to think about what in arizona, we have limited the the long-term benefits can be for the region and for the voluntary returns to juveniles, world. i think we have made good progress. i can give other examples. unaccompanied minors, and with i think we have made good progress on these grounds. humanitarian cases that are arrived. there has to be a special reason why that person would not be put i am very pleased with where we in a consequence program. are on the reset now. that is an important new dimension of deterrence. >> do either of you have any we are starting to see a questions for this panel? deterrent effect as far as who >> i have a few other questions tries to cross again and where that we will present in writing they tried to cross. to each of you. >> can we get our next question?

the record will stay open until friday for any other questions >> we do not have an ax to grind from members of the committee. in this. hillrich no further questions, i we are confused by the numbers. thank you both again for your i would like to hear some service and your willingness to do this. projections of how many people i hope we can get swift action are crossing illegally. from the senate and close this moving beyond the armrests and hearing. the apprehensions. i turne the gavel over to is it not true that some of the push back on some of these senator casey. efforts is that people are [captioning performed by coming through legally, but national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] using better forms of false identification, etc. we know that there are a lot of groups that are putting out some really excellent false id's. how will the u.s.-mexican tr ucking agreement affect this as far as trucks passing through

the border? >> this is independent of those >> we will start our second of those who are fraudulently entering. panel. every day, cbp offices go mr. ford, i know that before i arrived here, you had an opening through 1 million people per day. statement. this is the overwhelming what i will do is i will present majority of people entering this country enter legally. an opening statement and then we can go right to questions. the problem with fraudulent documents is much less serious am i correct in that? >> yes, senator, that is correct. >> thank you, everyone, for than it used to be. being here. you have the eye of the expense of counterfeit forged documents. years ago, there were hundreds i wanted to get right into these critically important issues. of documents that people used to over the past few days, scores get in fraudulently. have been killed in the same however since the western location of a devastating attack hemisphere travel card which by government forces in the year limits certain approved ways of entering the country from mexico 1982 which killed an estimated and canada. the problem with false

10,000 syrian civilians. despite the sustained assault, documentation is still there to syria and activists continue to be sure. it is much more manageable than demonstrate in a very large numbers. it has been in the past. the ending over time and the careful way after the the hooror taking place in syria today has led me and many others president's decision was made in this body, the united states will be a big plus to the senate, to be very clear about economy of the united states in the conclusion that we have particular. reached. this is a regime that is not i do not think it will contribute to the illegal migration problem. capable of real reform. checks that are ordinarily in it has lost all legitimacy. place on all trucks coming to we must be direct and the united states. as a national matter, we have unequivocal in our message to the dictator of damascus. 60,000 containers coming into the united states. 27,000 trucks a day come into he must step down. the united states.

we have replaced the mechanisms the syrian people should not have to suffer the brutality any and the protocols to inspect them. longer. these demonstrations started with children. >> thank you. my name is jose from mexico. on march 6, the syrian authorities arrested 15 i would love if you could schoolchildren in the city of dara for spray-painted an anti- comment on narcotic flows to the u.s. government slogans. at i understand that this is they were reportedly tortured while they were in custody. mostly emigration. it would help to know whether and members ofts the narcotics seizures have grown or increase during this the community called for their period. release. the police used force on the i would like to ask you about a leaked document by cbp parents and community leaders. within a week, they killed 55 people. today, after months of courageous demonstrations -- of regarding the strategy by president calderon not having course, that is a dramatic any effect on drug flows into understatement. there is no way to convey the the united states. courage and valor of these

people. >> with regard to drug flows, in after all of those demonstrations, the death toll has reached may be as high as much the same way, the border is 2000 but at least more than a barometer. it is a place in which you 1600. measure the effects of things some think 2000 would be too low. we do not know for sure. taking up place away from the but it is unacceptable for us to border. stand by any longer and watch the push out of mexico, the this. economic conditions in the the terrible breach of this united states and the job magnin regime has directly affected in the united states. constituents in my home state of pennsylvania. the flow of drugs, something we dr. halak is a naturalized control at the border, to organize the flows of criminal american citizen from syria in activities in mexico generating the respected oncology researcher who lives in marion drugs linked to organizations park, pa., just outside of philadelphia. in the united states and the in the month of may, his brother who was also a doctor overwhelming disgraceful consumption level of drugs in visited the u.s. to attend a the united states draws the medical conference. upon his return, he was missing.

supply out of mexico. his wife contacted the the enforcement effort has led authorities and confirmed that to a much higher level of he was in their custody but caesars -- seizures that we have would be released shortly. the next day, his wife and ever seen. there is a high level of daughter were interviewed by the marijuana and methamphetamines. authorities who again confirmed that he would be released. cocaine is down in the united two days later, his body was states significantly. discovered in a village 20 miles those are the areas where we see south. demand increase. we see seizures by the border the authorities then denied him -- denied that he was ever in control and by customs and their custody and claimed that border protection officers at the ports of entry. they found his body in a ditch by the side of the road. his body was subjected to brutal with regard to the kingpin torture. strategy, it is one element in his bones were broken. terms of attacking organized his body was mutilated in crime. it is a critical one. unspeakable ways. disrupt leadership patterns in sakir was not a political the way the mexican government, supported by the united states, activist. he was not involved in the have taken place over the last demonstration. five years, particularly the a fax -- effects of the dozens of

he visited a medical conference and visited with his brother in the united states of america. drug kingpin leaders have been we honor his memory and hundreds taken down. of others by calling for it has disrupted leadership democratic change in syria. patterns. i do not think that president we know that our allies across calderon would subscribe to the the arab league and in turkey, fact that that alone will produce the result that we see. it is an important dimension of as i raised before in the first panel, have a unique role to a takedown of organized crime, play to pressure mr. bashar al- much as it was in the united assad. states when the fbi focused on they have economic and diplomatic ties to syria that mafia family leaders in a variety of cities. the united states does not have. i support these efforts to >> rob, "congressional leverage these relationships with an approach to this crisis and applaud our allies who have rejected the bashar al-assad quarterly," in terms of the water balloon effect, is there regime. more can be done to pressure an effort on federally protected syria with international lands?

it seems that there is an increased activity there. bodies. it seems like there are we should also continue to legislative roadblocks in the way. pursue resolution at the u.n. >> they are piloting the ways of security council, condemning the government's behavior. moving away from it. public transportation is working on pilots to engage the impact. though some security council members remain resistant, >> the balloon effect. especially in the wake of recent violence. it is unacceptable for the >> the federally protected lands, the border patrol, when united nations to continue ignoring the courage of the doris ran ins and the border syrian people and of the carnage brought about by the syrian patrol, there was not a good regime. we should also continue to relationship with the department of agriculture and the interior. pursue efforts to construct the there were arrangements in ability of this regime to conduct business abroad. effect all across the border i welcome the new european union between the department of sanctions this week. agriculture and the national forests. they impose freezes and travel there is very close bans on five more government collaboration.

there is a place in the united states were border patrol agents officials. we should examine it expanded cannot go with a whole variety sanctions on the banking and energy sectors. of conventions governing how i want to applaud the courageous they do this after the fact and work done by our diplomats in when they go in. damascus, led by robert ford who border patrol agents have taken is here with us today. huge strides working with the interior. his trip was a testament to his you go to a place and you find commitment to representing the interests and values of the border patrol agents working united states. hand-in-hand with park rangers. due to the draconian measures imposed, ambassador ford has this is really not a problem. been one of the few people to i know that congressional travel to syria and a witness to proposals suggest that border the truth of the terrible things patrol has been barred from taking place across that country. president obama was right to certain areas. that is not the case. send him to syria last year. it water balloon the fact, as i look forward to supporting his the problem moved across the border east from san diego and confirmation when it comes before the senate. west from el paso, texas, we mr. ford has shown that an were playing catch-up. american ambassador is not a we did not have the personnel to gift to host countries, but the put the technology in place. representative to pursue as it moved, we were always american interests and the use.

the most basic american values, reacting to where the smugglers were taking the problem. the difference in 2011-2012 is the right to democratic representation, is that state in that there is no place on the border that will ever be a syria. i know ambassador ford has been a stalwart advocate for this vulnerable to smugglers coming across the border. the fact that the smugglers have principle democratic representation while he has gone and entrenched themselves served in damascus. ambassador ford, welcome back to in the arizona corner -- the senate foreign relations corridor and moving out of arizona and el paso, it is a committee. i know this is your second welcome today, but i thank you reflection of what they have had to react to as opposed to them for your decades of service and the remarkable efforts that you controlling the agenda the way have undertaken in damascus. that they did for so many years i look forward to the answers on the u.s.-mexican border. that you will provide to our questions. >> thank you. right here in the front. i wanted to open up with -- >> i am from "the los angeles >> i wanted to open up with an times." assessment. it is great to have you on one stage. thank you for putting your perspective on this problem. i wanted to bring up an issue. and what you can tell us about

the opposition and how they are what impact does the department doing and how we can be more of homeland security at have on effective and helpful. this effort? we meaning the united states you talked about increasing congress. resources and personnel. could this be done under existing legacy structures? >> thank you very much, senator. it is nice to see you again. this could have had a first, if i may, i am very detrimental affect. fortunate to work with a small you secure the border, higher but dedicated team at the u.n. all of these people, and change embassy in damascus. offices and stationery at the same time. both americans and syrians. >> in 1995, when janet reno became the borders are, i became one person on my team blessed to be working with doris interrupted her vacation, but i would like to introduce joann at that point. cummings who worked on economic the collaboration was actually and political issues in quite good. i think within the crucible of damascus. she is -- she was in damascus without her husband who was the aftermath of 9/11, the evacuated because of the notion of creating a joint deteriorating situation. border management has actually paid huge dividends.

it is a team effort. the fact that we have a unified >> thank you as well on our order management and avoid a lot behalf. >> senator, with respect to the of these that are caused by violence getting worse, the history, you go to a port of syrian government's constant entry in the past and you have brutality, its refusal to allow three separate offices. you have an immigration officer office. you have a customs official a peaceful marches, its office. insistence on widespread arrests you have an agricultural inspection. campaigns, and its atrocious and all of that is a function of torture -- the reports that you history. it is -- it was the first act read about are just ghastly. in the washington they are, in turn, fostering administration. more violence. history produced these results we saw that in the third largest city of the country two weeks which depended on relationships ago. we are seeing it this weekend, t o o. but i want to be clear. for a good coordination. unified demand has made a big difference. in terms of the resource i visited in june and heard what they said. enhancement, that was an i talked to other people. independent variable. it is very clear what happened that was a bipartisan up there. there was a peaceful protest on determination to restore the rule of law.

friday. syrian security forces shot some >> i think it is a very of the protesters. during the funeral on saturday, interesting question. i think there is a deeper the next day, the people got quite emotional because they implication to it all. have lost loved ones, and they then attacked and killed a lot it is the case that if you had of syrian security people. that cycle is repeated over and continued giving the resources to the department of justice over again. the cycle starts with syrian like in the 1990's, you would continue building up. government violence against this was a bipartisan effort at peaceful protests. that time. i need to be very clear. there were some real advantages the syrian government was saying there were armed groups. to having the functions in the i went there. justice department. i did not see a single gun. the most dangerous weapon in some ways, they are a bit of assault was a slingshot. we need to be clear about what a problem in homeland security. the nature of the violence is and where it comes from. or homeland security is the responsibility lies with concerned, the thing that president bashar al-assad. happened is that border enforcement that became an issue of national security.

that was a perception that the syrian government needs to stop that slaughter. professionals in their field would you like me to discuss briefly the opposition? that work along the border had >> yes. thank you. always held prior to 9/11. >> i spend a fair amount of my if you talk to people in those time getting to know them inside syria. the secretary to date met a agencies, they had a national group of syrian opposition members that are living outside security mission. they worked hard to try to get other parts of the government of syria. i was able to join that meeting that were explicitly charged as well. with national security to it is a diverse group that is recognize the value that they bring to the table. not very well organized. that was not constitutionally that is not surprising. recognized. it was not legally supported in the syrian government, for terms of their actual authority decades, would not allow any opposition party to exist, much to handle particular kinds of less meat or organize. information and so forth. that all changed with 9/11. they are trying to do that now. what 9/11 date, -- did, the real frankly, they have a long way to go. it is important for the syrian opposition to develop their transformation and shift that

happened was that border ideas, syrian ideas, about how the democratic transition in enforcement became front and syra, which we think is under center as a general concern of way. the country. an imperative in terms of a the street protests are growing. of the syrian opposition needs to identify how that transition political imperative as far as the congress was concerned as far as resources. should proceed. and the people that actually do -should not be an american responsibility. this is a syrian issue that the work and the agencies that syrians should decide. do the work are partly connected how about i hold there, senator? to the national security >> thank you very much. enterprise. that is a whole larger debate in terms of the advantages or americans are outraged by this disadvantages of that. and violence, but i am afraid i think it was a major shift. when you open up the newspaper, day after day, and it is in the >> i think we have time for two more questions. context of instability in a lot of places and a lot of change in the middle east, it might be -- >> to what extent, even though the level of outrage might be there is a rationale for border security, for controlling more muted because it is in the

immigration, was the whole context of it so much other question of turning it into a change in the region. national issue of national it is always a region with a lot security a republican red of volatility. herring? you know better than i.. lately, it has been more difficult. i think it is difficult for many >> do you want to follow on what you were just saying? americans to sustain their >> i would not subscribe to that focus. it is my opinion that not only issue. when you come up to a port of should mr. assad should step entry in pre-homeland security, down, but he should stop trying to deliberately mislead the you are basically faced with world bank and his forces engaged in acts of violence and immigration inspectors who were focused on immigration issues. then -- deliberately mislead they were also responsible for the world bank and his forces checking baggage and customs engaged in acts of violence. duties, although not terribly well equipped to do that. you had customs officers who i know part of the impediment is would man half of the booths developing a broad enough coalition of nations to support that were looking at stopping contraband and it were linking

us. we are trying to get an even immigration issues. when 9/11 introduced the motion broader coalition. one of the challenges we have that keeping dangerous people is engaging russia and china, and dangerous things away from the homeland became the and they are two of the most overarching umbrella in which vocal opponents. i cannot agree with it, but we immigration and customs have to acknowledge it. functions were subsumed and they are two of the most vocal each officer became responsible opponents against any for customs and immigration and resolution. what can you tell us about security, i think that has produced a more professional efforts to engage them and what is the latest? >> senator, there have been in approach to border security. intense discussions today up in new york, again, about some kind of u.n. security council action. the fact is, keeping dangerous people and dangerous things out my understanding from colleagues is very important to national up in new york, a couple of security. hours ago, the most recent i think that we are now better equipped to handle that, and i syrian government repressive measures out in the east and in hama in the west have an impact.

and that the members of the think in the world in which things move very quickly toward security council who had the border, that is not a bad opposed security council action perspective to bring. are potentially and now more open to some kind of action. discussions are underway. even as we speak here, we think it is important that the united >> i would like to go back to the issue of apprehension. i'm wondering if you can nations security council take elaborate about projection. action. you said this year there were we think it is important that the international community about 120,000 apprehensions. recognized the courage and efforts of the syrian people to >> in arizona. affect change, and the >> could you give us some international community should support that. >> one of the challenges we have when i mentioned that sometimes it is hard for perspective of where you see the most high numbers of the americans to sustain a focus on activity. violence, even violence at this

level, and the kind of >> in 2010, we saw four hundred brutality, one of the limitations that we have is not thousand plus across the border just the confluence of a lot of compared to 1.6 million in 2000. i focused on the arizona numbers the events that interfere or prevent that focus from being because i focus on that sector. intensified -- one of the challenges we have is a lack of information because of the inuspect we're going to be syrian government's ability to the two hundred 50,000-260,000, censored limited information. i spoke earlier of the estimates thereabouts. of the number of killed. even beyond that number which we we have been watered down significantly from last year. are never sure is accurate,-- still, 40% will be in arizona. you obviously have concerns about this. are there ways that we can >> cross is also much for circumvent or get around the coming. thank you, commissioner -- thank you all so much for coming. censors that are in place now, thank you, commissioner. thank you, doris. the ability of the government to hopefully we will be able to overcome some of the prevent the free flow of congressional gridlock that has information? >> senator, one of the big presented us from taking some of

the next steps that have been topics i have had in my alluded to here. discussions with officials of that concludes our program. the syrian government over the [applause] last several months is the [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national importance of allowing in cable satellite corp. 2011] international media. i do not know how many times i have raised that with the foreign minister, with close advisers to the president himself. the syrians have a refrain that i hear all the time, and that the media coverage is unfairgoer. you need to have the media come in -- the media coverage is unfair. cnn was invited in, national public radio, and we got a couple of british news agencies in. they were still tracked and monitored in the country. they did not have the kind of freedom that i would have liked to sing or we would have liked

-- liked to have seen. censorship is a huge problem. one of the reasons why i have moved around the country is to >> with titles like slander, got get a sense, myself, of what is going on. less, guilty and demonic, and it is terribly frustrating to kolter has something to say. sunday, your chance to talk to, not really understand. you can watch youtube videos. e-mail and tweaked the best- there is a certain utility being selling author and columnist. able to see things. i have been encouraging my that is on a book tv. colleague ambassadors to get out of damascus and a visit parts of >> sunday, christopher smith talks about the famine in the country. summer quite active, the french somalia and the islamist al- shabab group, tensions between ambassador for example -- some are quite active, the french sudan and south sudan, and a look at foreign aid. ambassador for example. we need to help the people themselves, learn how to make the best use of technology, so monday on c-span 3, a discussion they can use the internet to get on guns on college campuses. the word out. we will hear from state and i have to say that they are local campuses and college

quite ingenious doing this. colleagues of mine at the students. this event is hosted by the embassy tell me that the syrians second amendment foundation. understand at lot of the you can watch it live at 12:00 internet chats than many of us p.m. eastern on c-span 3. do. there is a lot of ingenuity there. the fundamental problem is the syrian government will not allow the free flow of information. that should stop. >> in some ways, that is one of the -- at least the way i would make a determination about the legitimacy, that is one of the measurements if you are not allowing the free flow of information. >> i have had the pleasure of knowing mark for a very, very at a minimum, questions arise long time. his influence on public policy calls to mind a "by harry about the implications of that. i meant to ask you before when you were talking about the truman -- a quote by harry opposition. i know this is difficult to do since you are in the for text of truman, "it is amazing what you this much more so than i am or

can accomplish if you do not people here in washington. care who gets the credit." to the extent that you can step back a little bit and provide a chief among his accomplishments is the transport of ottawa for a perspective based on recent events, one of the most -- this is my opinion. one k and auto exports to fall one of the most significant rates -- auto 401ks and auto factors in how the transition took place in egypt, for example, was the fact that you defaultdsaving. had a military which showed some measure, not -- i do not want to -- default savings. i really do not have time to be categorical about this -- but list all of his impressive some measure of -- you had a accomplishments, but i do want to stress that mark is sought out by decision makers of all number of folks who were in the political persuasions in both ruling elite who showed some the public and private sector for his expertise, his insight and his skill and actually forbearance or were measured in making things happen. the way that they responded which allowed them to mark is truly an unsung hero in transition. compared to some other places, the retirement policy community for his ability both to develop and implement sensible policies we were hoping it would

replicate its of. is there any element within the for pressing problems. if you have not already guessed my feelings, mark is simply a government at a high level within the government or within terrific human being. we are very lucky to have him the senior leadership of the here today. military where you see some, please join me in no even unrealized potential at this point for balance or some wry.oming mark i forbearance, where they might not cross a certain boundary or [applause] someone at the top is saying this has gone too far so let's >> thank you for the gracious stop and pause. act of perjury on my behalf. [laughter] i do not expect anyone at the i am delighted to be here. high levels to agree with me or this is a fantastic collection agree with mr. bashar al-assad of brains and talent. i would like to thank the to step down. commissioner of social security, deputy commissioner, and is there any potential for anyone to show that kind of everyone who puts this forbearance at some point in the conference together. near term? >> senator, i am going to be the consortium is a wonderful very frank. i have heard from a number of officials in damascus, messages effort. of good intent.

it has been productive. i have to tell you that what it has added great value to matters is change on the ground. thinking about policy in this and an end of the shooting of area and the three retirement peaceful protesters, and end of these sweeps or hundreds of research centers to a remarkable, extraordinary job. young people are rounded up and held for months, often in barbaric conditions. i have a strong sense that being the release of political prisoners. with such a distinguished and there are still political thoughtful group, the best use prisoners. of my time right now probably change on the ground. would be to close my remarks and when i have listened to these messages of good intent, and go around the room and solicit when i come back to them and say ideas, select your best thoughts what about changing this today or tomorrow, i do not get much back. and suggestions, but i have been a few things here and there, but asked to talk a bit first, so i not very much. our conclusion is that this will dutifully complied. regime is unwilling or unable to lead the democratic transition the theme of the conference, innovations in retirement that the syrian people are security, is highly appropriate and timely.

demanding now. in a sense, it does not really within the private pension system and the retirement matter because what we are interested in is what the syrian savings system, which of course supplements the fundamental bedrock of protection that the people interested in, the positive change on the ground. social security system provides to the american workforce, the incidences' over the past few days leading up to ramadan within the private pension system our second pillar, or showed that there is no positive change on the ground. >> i was afraid your answer second tier of retirement security, the market is would be very much the way you articulated. innovating in a variety of i think that should be important ways. there is a great deal of testimony that equates to exhibit 'a' as to why we need to creative activity having to do with 401k plans, having to do maintain pressure and think of other ways to provide or to with a defined benefit plans and impose it, i should say, greater hybrids, breaking down the pressure by developing and strengthening alliances through traditional barriers between the traditional kind of pension and engagement and efforts that are defined benefit that promises a made in the way of sanctions and other pressure. particular dollar amount per

my sense and i think you just month for life in the traditional format as opposed to confirmed it is and this is not a regime that will get tired of doing this unless they have a the defined contribution plan that, as we know, put a countervailing force against particular amount of input into them that will make them change. i wanted to explore some of the plan, a dollar contribution those other pressure points. that then grows with investment there are some commentators with experience to produce an output a significant degree of experience who think we should that is not necessarily be turning up more pressure and determined at the outset, imposing more economic pressu breaking the barriers between those two classic format. that is something innovative re by way of the energy sector. that the market has done on its own. policy makers have not taken the initiative to do that. i wanted to get your thoughts on that in terms of another the creativity in the market has approach here. done that, has got to be on the labels and focused on -- gotten >> senator, that is an excellent beyond the labels and focused on the realities. question. the specific attributes of these on the energy sector, we have, for years, have had sanctions programs and vehicles, what

characteristics should they against american companies doing have in order to best help business there. people get retirement security unilaterally, additional american measures probably are and provide for their retirement not going to have that big of an security? impact. the big companies that are our private pension system right working in the syrian energy now is in the state that one might fairly characterized as petroleum oil and gas sector in syria right now are mostly glass half full, glass half european and canadian. so, we would look to find ways to work with our partners to empty. the half full part, quite enhance those sanctions. obvious and salient. frankly, we have had 65 million or more american workers are covered by private discussionabout that, and that is underway. pension and retirement programs. millions of middle-income and european and canadians, too, are lower-income families have been watching what is going on in syria. i think the latest action will receiving benefits for decades help trigger action, frankly now from defined benefit speaking. >> a lot of what drives fervor pensions, defined contribution 401k and other profit sharing for change can be often rooted and other plans.

in economics as it is with have supplemented the anything else. how would you assess the syrian retiring opportunity on attacks economy prior to maybe the favorable basis for those that do not have employer -- a tax beginning of this year versus favorable basis for those that do not have employer retirement the way it looks now in terms of plans available to them. its significance as an issue in we have accumulated perhaps the largest pool of investment this conflict? >> the violence and unrest in capital in the world. the latest report by the federal reserve suggests that there is syria and lack of stability is $11 trillion in the combination of defined benefits, defined really hurting the economy. it is snowballing. contribution and ira programs let me give you a couple of examples. with something like to 0.3 of the tourism sector is completely those trillion in the defined benefit pensions, something like dead. the hotels in damascus which $four trillion now in the 401k normally would have occupancy rates of 90% are down to 10% or

0. hotels are laying off staff. and $7 trillion in the ira's. the country is draining slowly but steadily its foreign as we know, the irate's have exchange reserves. business throughout the economy been taking rollovers from the has slowed dramatically, whether other kinds of -- ira's have it be production of pharmaceuticals or textiles, been taking rollovers from the other kinds of plans. whatever it is. the demand among consumers has dropped off the table. people, in a sense, are afraid other portions of their assets to buy because the times are so are attributable to contributions by millions of americans, in particular people unsaddled. banks are also hurting. who do not have access to an employer plan. joanne does did a very effective assessment of the the employer-sponsored system current situation. one of the things we are trying covers about half the work to do -- joanne and i both work force, perhaps a little more and those are key features of in iraq. we do not want our sanctions to devastate the broader syrian the glass being half full. economy because in the time after assad, it will be

the glass is half-empty in the important for syria to be a sense that the employer strong country. sponsored system covers about we have really worked in the half the work force, perhaps a little more. united states government and the rest disproportionately with our partners abroad to targets the sanctions against minorities, lower-income people, specific companies and specific women who are not in the work individuals that are involved in force steadily for 40 years on the repression without targeting of the broader certain of economy and making the people of syria suffered. and. the folks who are left out are it is a different kind in some cases contributing to of sanction regime. these individual retirement it is much more specifically accounts, but only something targeted with the goal of like one out of 10 of the people sparing the syrian people themselves great suffering. >> i know that is always the who have no employer plan and are eligible to contribute on a challenge to make such tax favored basis to an ira sanctions targeted enough and would actually be contributing impactful enough on the regime. in an average year. the take up rate, if you will, the rate at which people use i know that we have seen, as these tax favored savings often happens in these opportunities, is not where it situations, we have seen an odd

could be. word migration in this case. most -- the majority of folks fleeing northwestern syria into this system is also driven by tax preferences, which are designed, as we know, to turkey. encourage the private sector to is there any reports you can give us on that? maybe the bigger question is supplement social security as it what role -- how do you assess has done in such a formidable way, but those tax preferences the role played by syria and are designed in a way that may not be ideal when it comes to what more do you hope that -- how best to address the needs of them the majority of american 'm sorry, i meanht the workers -- of the majority of american workers. turkish government -- what role the system of tax preferences can deploy to create more pressure and more impact on the deduction based. by that i mean, as most of you know, when you contribute $1 to syrian regime? a 401k account, for example, or a similar kind of pension, or >> first, senator, may i follow when an employer contributes $1 all on the economic sanctions and your behalf to a retirement

that you mentioned? program, it does not appear on the w-2. the challenge of getting it it does not get included in your taxable income until years later, typically, when the targeted that works. let me give you a couple of dollar has grown and exits your success stories that may not have made the news. plan as a withdrawal when you cousinshe presiden'ts are ready to take it as benefits. typically, when it goes into the plan, it disappears from your is very well known in syria. tax base. it does not appear in your w- he is a very, shall i say, two, which is of value to you in proportion to how i your tax unscrupulous businessman. bracket is. we have targeted him very if -- how high your tax bracket specifically as well as his is. company's because we know he if you are in the 40% tax helps to finance the regime. he applied for citizenship to bracket, saving $1 generates cyprus. he did not get it because we $0.40 of tax savings. made sure that he could not get so, to you, the after-tax cost, to cyprus and get citizenship. the cost to you of putting the that is strike one against him. dollar into the plan, after taking into account the tax strike two, we targeted his

savings, is $0.60. if however, your tax bracket is holdings in one of the biggest 10%, you are getting $0.10 worth companies. their board members term expired of tax benefits for the $1 of savings that you or your employer did in your behalf. at the end of april and they so the cost to you of saving were too afraid to have another board meeting. the dollar is $0.90 rather than finally, the government insisted that businesses come together to $0.60. have a board meeting in july. taxgot one dime's worth of all they were able to do is come up with half of the board and benefit for saving $1. one of vice-chairman. many in the economics profession so, the sanctions do bite. maybe not in the way of has referred to this as an upside-down incentive, in the headlines, but what we do see is more and more business people. sense of the people who need the most help to encourage them to it is an important pillar of the regime's support. save are given the least we see them slowly but surely incentive. switching sides, and that is as a result, the congress in important. so i do think our sanctions are 2001 passed a savers' credit, a

having an impact. tax credit designed to level the of refugees going into turkey, a playing field on the behalf of the majority of the american couple of things i would say. work force. a majority of our work force are we appreciate that the turks did in the lower tax brackets. many are working hard, paying offer refuge to people fleeing their payroll taxes and not the government of syria in the allowing any income tax rather paying their payroll taxes, northwest. people fled in the thousand spending somewhere around 12,000 which are a substantial fled mainly because they were percentage of their income. terrified of the army and syrian for these people, the income tax intelligence retaliation against saving when they contribute is them. the army and especially the 0. intelligence services have a fearsome reputation, and we have seen plenty of videos on arabic they may have a slight tax break when the employer contributes. satellite tv of how they beat this situation can be remedied and tortured people. by expanding this tax credit some of them are quite grew some. people fled in real fear. which congress enacted, the that is what happened to the savers credit, that gives people an additional financial town i visited in the month of

june. we appreciate the role that the incentives for saving when their turks have played. tax bracket is not the highest. my understanding now is that some refugees who went to if you save a dollar in a turkey are beginning to trickle retirement program, you could back into syria, that they will get $0.50 back as a tax benefit. be saved. the syrian red crescent has extended promises that they will the current savers' credit, watch over people coming back, unfortunately, because of that there is not mistreatment. revenue constraints, gives most most of the refugees are still people who qualify for it $0.10 on the dollar back or some, in turkey, somewhere around 8000 people are still there. $0.20 on the dollar. very few get $0.50 on the they do not trust their own dollar, but it could be expanded government. in order to get people more but the turkish role in this, i substantial financial reward. think, has been very good and we for saving that would, as i say, appreciate it. level the playing field for to your question about what turkey can do, i think they have those in the lowest tax brackets. a very important role. it also be made refundable, i am often in touch with my colleague, ambassador meaning that folks who pay their ricciardone. payroll taxes but to not go any the turks have a very deep income tax would actually get a

relationship that they have been deposit, a refund in the form of building up for years. dollars contributed to their plan, 401k, ira, whatever plan they wanted to build. i think it is fair to say that the turks even yesterday when they contribute to voluntarily as an incentive to contribute. the president was very critical of the latest measures -- the another shortcoming of the turks have perhaps a unique current system is that even of capability, both to talk to the the people who do have an opportunity to save in the syrians on several levels because they have built those workplace, through an employer contacts, and also were they to plan, many do not. adopt sanction, for example, i one of the key innovations in the private sector that has addressed that shortcoming to a think those two would bite. >> that is something i hope we considerable and increasing extent -- and this is something can continue to foster because that'll be shut has written on of that help in the region could brilliantly -- is the automatic be very significant. i was in the region last july 401k. the notion here has been that one reason people do not

2010, and one of -- our second participate as much in retirement savings opportunities that they have is that it takes to last stop was in beirut in initiative. it takes getting up off the lebanon. couch, deciding where to i could sense that they have a presence of hezbollah in contribute to. lebanon. i went to get your sense about if you have an employer plan, it the implications -- i want to is clear where you contribute, but it may not be clear to you get your sense about the implications and unrest and whether to contribute, how much to contribute, how to invest it, applications for lip and on and how it has responded -- and and the choices can -- as behavioral economics of applications of lebanon and how demonstrated -- be daunting. it has responded. they can keep people in a state >> when i appeared before the of inertia where they do not get foreign relations committee in around to making the decisions and closing the deal, and march 2010, we spoke a long time actually saving. we have had traditionally, in about hezbollah in that area. the 41 case based -- 401k space, we have a real opportunity wtiih change in syria to see both something like three-quarters

iranian influence diminished. of the folks eligible to save take advantage and all the rest do not. the rest, in fact, typically that would be a real gain for us sincehe syrian peopalle leave money on the table, as the expression goes, because the employer often matches what the the iranians are helping with employee contributes, so there the oppression. with respect to hezbollah is an employer matching specifically, the syrian contribution that the non- support to hezbollah has participant is leaving on the continued. table that they could get by putting in some of their own it has not stopped. at the same time, i think the money. leadership of has a lot at first the employer plan is a powerful was a very outspoken in its vehicle. support of the syrian makes saving pretty easy. but traditionally, not easy government. more recently, they have been enough. the need to take the initiative quiet. my sense is they have seen to sign up for the 401k, to make enough hezbollah fighters burned the decisions, how much to put in protests. in, how much to invest, has deterred a lot of people. they realize that their support you may take the form home after for the syrian government is not you are hired and tell h.r. you will get back to them this weekend after you sit down with garnering them and the long-term your partner, your spouse,

friendship with the syrian people. whoever, and think about it, >> can you explain that? make the decisions, and you can you walk us through that in will bring it back next week. terms of -- if you are like me, by the time >> of the protesters and i think the weekend is over, you cannot syrians understand that iran and find the form. you have not had a chance to discuss this with your spouse, hezbollah is supporting syrian and pretty soon, time starts to government oppression against them. go by and inertia takes its >> i know that when you were toll. back in the 1990's, one of my getting out of damascus i think staff came to me when i was at treasury back then and said there is an obscure legal ith a lot of valo;r and question that we have been asked to consider. suppose a 401k plan puts someone commitment, when you made that in the plan, and rolls them, and journey, it had to be, in some does not make them sign up, but ways, heroin. -- harrowing. lets them opt out. what did you draw from it would that be legal. mostly? i know you had a better sense of should we take time taking that what was happening on the ground. question on? what did you draw from it other

than what has to be remarkable my job involved hundreds of legal and policy issues, and my staff and i were swamped with inspiration when you draw upon things to do, and i remember saying that we have all of these major policy concerns, trying to that the inspiration provided by encourage savings, trying to these brave people? what else can you tell us about promote a more secure system, that journey? >> it was a fascinating promote retirement security in various ways. we have so many abstruse legal experience, senator. i have had a lot of trips and my issues on our plate already, i do not think we have time to time, but that one would rank up deal with this. let's put it off. near the top. i came away with a couple of the light bulb did not go off until a little later. conclusions which are shared with the department of state in the media. i will confess, it was probably a couple of months, and then, the one weapon i saw was a all of a sudden, it became clear slingshot. that putting somebody in a 41 k these are not gunmen. when we came up to the first plan but giving them the choice to step out of it might checkpoint, very frankly, the actually overcome the inertia local checkpoint, we were not that keeps one-third or one- sure if they were going to be armed or not and we were quarter of the eligible folks out of the plan. nervous. it was framed as a negative

the second point i came away with is a day are not against foreigners. election. instead of having people elect we told them we were american to participate in the plan, diplomats. they said please pass. could we have a negative we got kind of lost. we should have had a map but we election where the form is only if they want out of the plan? did not. we had to stop to ask for we then realized that when in came to encouraging savings come directions bank they got in the car and told us where we needed at a good policy, to promoting -- encouraging savings, good to go. they are not anti-american at policy, promoting retirement all. i think they appreciated the savings, this was not abstruse, attention that the united this was something we should states showed it to their cause. discuss immediately and promote. they are peaceful. we proceeded to do that. i told them i was the american the few plants that had been ambassador, and they said, ", thinking about this or trying ocome on." this were given reassurance that indeed it is consistent with all the rules. i came away with their incredible commitment. i get that whenever i meet in 1998, we issued a ruling opposition people in any city defining this practice and pending their commitment to naming its, approving it,

change and to freedom and to promoting it. dignity. they are not going to stop. negative election did not seem they underlined that over and like a great name. this is washington, after all. over, and we have seen that. we were talking about a egypt a we wanted people to understand little while ago. that this is a positive, roughly 900 egyptians and died in the first phase of the constructive idea, consistent with individual choice, but egyptian revolution out of a country of 80 million people. helping people find it easier to save, facilitating savings so nearly 2000 people have died in that inertia, perhaps the most syria. the scale of killing in syria is powerful force in human affairs, way beyond what it was in egypt. would be on the side of saving rather than on the side of not the people are quite committed saving. so, we called it -- and i must to change. i do not think they are going to say when i say that we called stop. it, i will confess also that my so i think we owe it to them to staff gathered over lunch one remain supportive and to try to day and we spent over half an build that support wisely, hour discussing the name. what should we call it? carefully, but to build that support. >> i know we have to wrap up. automatic enrollment, just because that is descriptive of

what it is. we have covered a good bit but it is automatic in the sense not nearly enough. that as an employee you are in i am sure i will have questions the plant automatically even if you do nothing, but it is not for the record. we will try not to overload you automatic in the sense that you have to stay in. with written questions. that is just the default, the i will leave the record open presumptive thing. you can opt out. until friday for other members we called it that because we to submit questions or for any also wanted to plant the seeds witnesses to enter in their that may be all savings could be automated in that sense and made easier. if you have enrollment made testimony. in conclusion, asking a broad automatic so that people have to question but an important one because of the way we interact opt out, why not make investment that way too. and hear about this. give people the choice. i think i know what your message let them decide what they want. but make an automatic option to the american people is about solidarity and about focus on available so that if people cannot decide or want to this horror that we are seeing. procrastinate, decide later, after they get more financially what specifically would you hope literate, and they can do that. or the administration hope that the congress would do by way of action or legislative action or so, automate all phases, otherwise that you think would enrollment, contributions,

be constructive in helping to investment, and what about payouts from the plan? not just show solidarity but to lots of the funds that are continue the focus that should accumulated in our private pension system leak out of the be brought to bear on what these brave citizens of syria system in the form of consumption that may not be for are trying to accomplish? an emergency, may not be to feed >> senator, i have been working the family while someone is unemployed, and may not be for a in the middle east since 1980 long-term investment in security like maybe the purchase of a when i went out there as a peace home or education for oneself or corps volunteer. i really liked the president's once kids. speech on the arab spring, the it may be too, as the expression speech that he gave on may 19, because i think he laid out for goes, by the bass boat or take a the american people why change in the arab world matters for us vacation or what have you. i am not one that things the and what it means for our own government ought to tell people what they ought to do, whether they ought to buy a bass boat or national security. the point that he stressed was use the savings for retirement that the democratic transition or college tuition, but we are under way from morocco to the providing tax preferences for persian gulf do matter to us.

these savings. the taxpayers are paying more in order to direct tax preferences we have big interests in that to this particular public policy part of the world. it can be positive change. purpose. so we have some stake in at least encouraging people in a we should be supporting democratic transitions certain direction. the purpose for the tax throughout the region. there may be times when our preference being, of course, assistance is needed directly supplementing social security by providing more retirement and our assistance is needed benefits and retirement only indirectly. security. so, automatic rollover, that is we should look to be supportive. what i would hope from the transferring the money when it comes out of the plan, if you're congress is that it works with the administration to make sure not ready to retire, if you are that resources are available in your twenties, thirties, when we need them to support forties, fifties, whatever and you're not ready to retire, those transitions. i am going to be very frank transferring it to your new employer's plan -- hopefully you again, senator. have a new employer if you leave i was in algeria during the the old employer -- or --ansferring it your ea civil warfare in the mid 1990's. there was a very brave algeria opposition at the time, and we transferring it to your new retirement account. had nothing that we could offer them. that rollover to a new plan is no access to the democratic institute and the kinds of something that we also could

programs that they do or the perhaps make more automatic, and republican institute. indeed the system has moved in those kinds of programs actually that direction. do matter a lot. if the employee who leaves a job those programs do help. does not ask for their money, we have clawed and scratched for the money stays in the plan. gains in places like iraq. if the employee has less than it is still up to the local $5,000 in the plan, it used to people. be the employee could cash and but we can help. i hope the american people will voluntarily. just write them a check. it tends to be spent. understand the value to our once people get their hands on national security of supporting the money, especially the those democratic transitions. >> we want to thank you for your smaller the amount, it is hard to visualize this is going to make a difference to your testimony. ultimate security in old age. it is more likely to be spent. we express our gratitude and certainly that is true in my commendation on a much larger family. scale for your commitment, as so what we did, congress and the you say, on the ground which is a noteworthy and very executive branch is develop a way to automate these pay-outs. we provided that no longer would significant act of public

service. we appreciate that. we will work with you. employees voluntarily cash out small pasta dishes, $5,000 or i know, in a bipartisan less, if that was the account balance -- cash out small sentiment in a town where it amounts, $5,000 or less, and bipartisanship is all too rare. that was the account balance. thank you very much for your if a person wanted, and give it testimony. we are adjourned. to me, great. they have got it. [captioning performed by if a person is silent, as people national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] often are, they are distracted, they change their address, the money stays in the plan to continue to accumulate on a tax- favored basis or gets rolled over into an ira in that person's name, even if they did not sign up for it. automatic rollover. either way, it stays in the tax-favored retirement system. the phases of saving in the 401 k world have been automatic. large plans roughly half has now >> more reaction to date on the

downgrading of u.s. credit. converted from the traditional way of telling people, if you and its ministers and central bankers reportedly plan to have want to be in, you got to sign, a conference call this weekend to figure out international to telling people that you are in at 3% or 6% of pay -- it coordination. china issued a statement saying that the u.s. government has to cure its addiction to debt. does not have to be a low rate. whatever the plan sponsor some of the gop candidates are decides. by the way, in the obama waiting in. -- are weighing in. administration we have been at pains to emphasize that the rate does not have to be the 3% that allow the plants use, which was former massachusetts gov. mitt the rate we used in our 1998 romney says the credit downgrade ruling, approving automatic was the latest casualty of president obama's failed enrollment, merely as an economic leadership. example. and as a very initial toe in the discussion continues on the water for this concept. tomorrows "washington journal." so plans are increasingly auto we will hear from the president enrolling people, not so much and ceo of powell financial group. then a discussion with authors the small, but the larger plans. and employees are participating talking about the impact of the along in these atuuto

vietnam war. that all begins at 7:00 p.m. enrollment plans at 75% but eastern here on c-span. 95% of the eligible employees. president obama outlined his ideas to generate economic growth and create jobs. the take up rate has been he talked about tax cuts for the middle class, ending regulations increased. u.s. benefited most, lower for small businesses, and income people, minorities, folks passing trade deals. who were not signing up for the he is followed by the republican address, discussing proposals plan at their own initiative for job creation and calling for often enough and are now doing so. the passage of a balanced budget those who do not want to save amendment. are free to opt out. and consistently, a significant number of people, whether 5% or >> this week, congress reached 10%, assert that choice. these automatic 401 k's an agreement that's going to allow us to make some progress in reducing our nation's budget deficit. represent a first generation of and through this compromise, making savings easier. both parties are going to have to work together on a larger plan to get our nation's there is a second generation finances in order. that is coming on that a lot of that's important. we've got to make sure that washington lives within its creativity in the market is

means, just like families do. in the long term, the health of fostering. by that i mean taking net our economy depends on it. but in the short term, our urgent mission has to be getting this economy growing contribution that might be 3% of faster and creating jobs. that's what's on people's pay for people who are newly minds; that's what matters to hired and hiking it to 5% of families in this country. pay. people who are newly hired will and the fact is, this has been be in the plan at 5% of their a tumultuous year for the economy. we've weathered the arab play, unless they choose spring's effect on oil and gas otherwise. they can choose to go down to prices. the japanese earthquake and zero are up to 15%, whatever the tsunami's effect on supply chains. maximum. but when you use 5% as a the economic situation in default, the anecdotal evidence europe. and in washington, there was a contentious debate over our suggests he did not get a lot nation's budget that nearly more people opting out. second, the contribution can ratchet up over time dragged our country into financial crisis. so our job right now has to be automatically. doing whatever we can to help the employer can say we started folks find work; to help create the climate where a business everybody at 5%, but in their can put up that job listing; where incomes are rising again second year, they are going up for people. we've got to rebuild this to 6%. economy and the sense of the third year 7%. security that middle class has to get off the escalator anytime felt slipping away for years. and while deficit reduction has you like, but it is a default. to be part of our economic strategy, it's not the only

thing we have to do. we need democrats and republicans to work together to if you do nothing, you're saving help grow this economy. we've got to put politics aside will all go up. to get some things done. that step up technique has been that's what the american people expect of us. and there are a number of steps that congress can take right spreading in the 401 k universe. away, when they return in september. we need to extend tax cuts for working and middle class families so you have more money the investments, likewise, have in your paychecks next year. been automated so there is a that would help millions of default investment, and the people to make ends meet. and that extra money for expenses means businesses will labor department has issued have more customers, and will didance some years ago, twoq be in a better position to hire. yesterday, i proposed a new tax credit for companies that hire veterans who are looking for work after serving their country. we've got a lot of honorable and skilled people returning a's that have been used in the from iraq and afghanistan, and companies that could benefit private sector. and this success story in the from their abilities. let's put them together. we need to make sure that 401 k world is one that has millions of workers who are still pounding the pavement looking for jobs are not denied helped millions of people get unemployment benefits to carry them through hard times. we've got to cut the red tape into savings who are not saving that stops too many inventors and entrepreneurs from quickly turning new ideas into thriving before. but what about the other portion businesses which holds back of the population that does not our whole economy. have access to a 401 k? it's time congress finally

passed a set of trade deals you cannot enroll someone that would help displaced workers looking for new jobs, automatically in something they do not have. the idea has taken hold in my and that would allow our businesses to sell more products colleagues' david john, a in countries in asia and south america products stamped with three words: made in america. and we ought to give more senior fellow at the heritage foundation, who with bill gale, opportunities to all those construction workers who lost their jobs when the housing boom went bust. a senior fellow at the brookings institution and peter orzsag we could put them to work right now, by giving loans to companies that want to repair our roads and bridges and when he was at brookings, we as airports, helping to rebuild america. those are a few commonsense part of this jury project, a -- steps that would help the the security project, a economy. and these are ideas that have been supported by both democrats and republicans in the past. so i'm going to keep calling on nonprofit venture some years ago, worked on these approaches. both parties in congress to put and david john and i put forward aside their differences and send these bills to my desk so i can sign them right away. a way to automate enrollment for after all, both parties share power. people who do not have an both parties share responsibility for our progress. employer plan. we have a voluntary pension moving our economy and our country forward is not a system. employers are not required to democratic or a republican sponsor plans, and many responsibility; it is our employers still they are not responsibility as americans. ready to. that's the spirit we need in they have an asset their washington right now. employees could use to make

saving easier, which is their that's how we'll get this payroll system. economy growing faster and one of the great strengths of reach a brighter day. thanks for listening, and have our private pension system is a great weekend. that it is employer-based, using the payroll system to make saving easier. >> hello, i'm a congressman from rather than having to amass a certain amount of liquidity, a the great state of new york. after serving my country in few thousand dollars worth of combat in the united states cash, in order to contribute to an ira, although you can marine corps and deep undercover contribute smaller amounts with the fbi, i decided to go subject to the ira rules, but out on my own and start a small rather than having to think business. i have seen firsthand how about, where am i going to get a politicians and bureaucrats can lot of money in order to make a make it harder to meet payroll meaningful contribution? and create jobs. the employee with payroll the latest jobs report shows deduction can benefit from the that president obama's stimulus flow -- slow, gradual allocation policies are simply not working. of a few percentage points of the overspending, overtaxing and their pay into tax-favored uncertainty coming out of saving. it's pretty painless, but it washington is holding our job creators back. every day i hear the frustration edged uadds up. of my neighbors and constituents and that payroll-based saving who ask, where are the jobs?

they remind me that this is not the country they grew up in. mechanism, which is part of the 401 k can be replicated for the the good news is that we can and will get it back if we change millions of folks who do not going forward. that is why speaker boehner told have access to a defined benefit pension or anything else by way president obama we would not of saving plan. grant his request to increase the debt ceiling with out we can extend automatic enrollment to them by asking cutting spending. their employers to let the we would not agree to any tax individual salary reduce, increases that would cost jobs. i voted for this legislation, elect to have part of the salary but i have to be quite honest in telling you that it is far from go into the individual's own perfect. tax-favored savings account, the cuts and reforms do not go without the employer having to nearly far enough, but it is a sponsor a plan, without the reasonable and responsible approach that includes spending employer having to contribute from its own funds matching or otherwise, or having to comply cuts larger than the debt limit with the therisa rules or the hike. and no tax increases. it puts us on a path to fiscal tax code rules that apply to responsibility. 401 k's. still, this is no time for as a matter of policy, i know celebration.

we can celebrate when our budget the administration and most people want employers to want to sponsor the plans. is balanced, our debt is under control, and our economy is back we encourage employers to to creating jobs again. sponsor defined benefit pensions, defined contribution there is a lot of work to be plans, whatever form a plan done. this fall, members of both they're willing to adopt for their employees, but those that parties will be working on are not ready to do that could legislation to produce trillions release let their employees use the payroll system as a conduit, of dollars in further deficit as a delivery mechanism to get reduction through necessary the money from the employee's cuts. own paycheck. while the work is being done, if the employee wants to, to a the house and senate will also be voting on a balanced budget tax-favored accounts like an ira, in which the employee could amendment, something republicans insisted on. there is no greater way to provide certainty to the private say. that we, the automatic ira -- we sector and send a balanced call the automatic ira. and we proposed, heritage budget amendment to the states. foundation has been very we were right to hold the president accountable on the supportive of this. debt limit because he is many other organizations, aarp, already proposing more stimulus spending, higher taxes and even has been tremendously

more regulation. supportive. members of congress on both doubling down on the same field sides of the aisle say the policies is not the answer. concept, which the retirement republicans have focused on job creation that reduces security project launched some burdensome regulation, a simpler years ago, was then adopted by the candidates, then senator and fairer tax code and expansion of american energy obama and senator mccain, both production. these are the kinds of common sense solutions that would get government out of the way and of them indicated support for give job creators the certainty it. and senator obama put it in his they need to invest, plan and platform, his retirement create jobs. many of these proposals have program, as essential component, already passed the house and are waiting on action from the and as president has continued to propose this in his budget democratically lead senate. you can reveal -- review all the proposals. a tax credit would go to the details of our plan at jobs.go employers that do this, that let their employees use the perils system. no employer that has a plan would be asked to do this. it would be employers that do p.gov. not sponsor a plan and have more we have all the tools we need to than 10 employees and had been succeed. around for at least a couple my question for washington is years. the idea is that it should be as this, how many more jobs reports

easy as possible for the will it take before we change employer, minimum of hassle or course? what will it take for all of us burden for the employer, and no to just say enough? for the sake of our economy, i outlay. am urging the president to wake employer is not in shipping, up to reality, abandon his there is no out-of-pocket costs. failed policy, and joined as another item is to do list, together with income tax withholding or fica or ui republicans in doing the hard work to turn this country and around and create jobs. send a balanced budget amendment withholding that it has to do with its employees already at to the states. that would be a good start. the federal or state level. we need less politics and more our hope is that something along common sense if we are going to save our country from financial these lines, automatic ira ruin and restore a thriving economy for our children and proposal, which members of congress, congressman neal and grandchildren. thank you. god bless america. others in the house, senator bingaman and senator kerry and >> monday on c-span, a other senators have proposed, discussion on the african- which has attracted support from american vote in 2012. speakers include maryland a variety of quarters over time. our hope is that this will help congresswoman donna edwards and a washington post congress -- address the people were not in the system now and make it easy for them to save.

there are many other potential innovations and constructive ideas that would be desirable to pursue instead would love to discuss with all of you, but we undertook to save some time for q&a and exchange. alicia, if you like to begin that? >> i would love to. if you have questions, right down. there are people who will collect it. andy gave me some. one is, i think your baby was attacked by "the wall street journal". there was a recent article that indicated the ppa may have had unintended effects on 401 k saving. this is your chance. >> for those who are not

familiar with the acronym pension protection act of 2006 was one of the things that after initial rulings promoted automatic enrollment, alicia's referring to a point of view that very validly points out that if you automatically enrolled people in the plan, some of them might go along with the notion. they would a participated otherwise at a higher level than the default contribution. radio i would have contributed 6%, but the plan defaulted -- maybe i would've contributed at 6%, but the plan defaulted at 5%. that is a phenomenon that some people called anchoring. and bridget major at harvard pointed out that that can happen when you automatically enrolled people.

but as bridget would agree that you can address this by escalating the contribution level from year to year. you can, every time someone gets a raise, you can give them an increase in a contribution automatically, unless they want to do otherwise. so they do not see their take- home pay going down. or as many companies do, even without regard to the timing of arrays, you can increase the contribution level automatically every year, unless the employee opts otherwise. apart from that, is so significant to have people who are not into bidding at all and to the plan for the first time and become savers by reason of automatic enrollment. that that tends to swamp the effect of people that might

otherwise have contributed more, but who by inertia might be drawn down to the default level of contribution. tributor andro conjur bring them up to 5% is more the of the social benefit them to take a 10% contributor and make them contribute at 5%. you have to encourage somebody to come into the system. tennessee increase that 5% gradually over time, you -- and then if you increase of 5% gradually of the time. >> people write really fast. and there are a couple that are related. you talked about the accumulation phase of the 401 k plan. should have the emphasis on people getting some sort of a lifetime income of the plan? you made this point yourself that all of the money is moving

from 41 k'01 k's to ira's. >> the contributions are being generated far more in employer then plans like 4-01 k's they are in ira's. so focusing our policy and how to get people into 401 k's and how to contribute more is well worth it. the problem you are alluding to, at least i think is another one of the shortcomings of our system, that over time, as we have shifted famously from defined benefit plans to i would not say defined contribution plans to 401 k's that is not so much defined benefit contribution as employer- funded, employer-directed, employer-investment-directed to

do it yourself plans that people direct on their own. that shift has been associated with the decline in lifetime income, a decline in retirement income payments as opposed to a single cash payments. more people are taking money out of their plans in a cash payment and investing it on their own that might traditionally have been the case, when plans were more prevalent that paid out lifetime income. an annuity, a monthly check that you got for your entire life in the life of your surviving spouse that guarantee do not run out of assets during retirement, at least to the extent of that monthly check, in addition to social security. these traditional pension plans that paid annuities were similar

to or mimicking some aspects of social security, paying a lifetime income. most of them do not have cola, but in earlier times, some of them did. that lifetime income has been declining, even the defined benefit pensions are paying more lump sums and less lifetime income. notwithstanding that the default in a defined benefit pension, the automatic form, is a lifetime annuity. people will collect against the default sometimes. our behavioral strategies the to be more sophisticated than simply relying monaco default. and therefore, what the market has been doing by way of innovation and what the treasury and labor department have been doing has been focusing on how we can encourage more restoration of lifetime income to our system. for people who wanted, more

substantial options. options that are easier for employers to choose to put in their plans. easier for individuals to take seriously as an alternative that they might want to use for their retirement security. and that lifetime income protection or retirement income, whether it is guaranteed for life or whether it is a long stream of payments for decades, that may or may not be that isally an annuiutty guaranteed for life, that is something that is coming back to our system slowly. and we are, labor and treasury, encouraging a national conversation about this. we have gotten many comments at our request, including from many of you here, and we are about to come out with some administrative guidance that would be designed to encourage people to consider options for lifetime income in various

formats, whether commercial annuities, defined benefit plan annuities, individual retirement accounts, ways to help people manage their assets in retirement. accumulating the acids in the first place is critical, and we are far from it -- accumulating the assets and the first place is critical and we are far from reaching our goals there. many middle income people are reaching retirement with more to relation of assets in addition to whatever guaranteed income they have from social security and from what effort defined benefit plan. those people need help simply in deciding, how do i make this money last and how do i sure i will not run out in old age? that's the issue that is being addressed. and we very much invite all of you to counsel with us on how best to promote that.

we used to have something we call a private pension system. we still call it a private pension system, but the term tension has connoted traditionally lifetime income -- traditionally. a stream of payments that is guaranteed for life. the way social security is, the way many defined benefit plans still provide income. returning to that is a viable option, not necessarily is something everyone should do or necessarily that something should do for all of their retirement savings. unique flexible assets. many people feel for emergencies -- you need flexible a ssets. but to at least put this option back on the table. >> if you have the proper will barrel of something when you leave here, because there are so many questions. do you have any thoughts about

losing the number of investment options in a 401 k? a lot of investment options are confusing. is there any thought about limiting the number? >> you are right in this sense our whole deal has been meant into making saving easier and to make it more automatic. part of that deal has been to recognize the bollettieri nation of our private pension system and recognize -- recognize our private pension system and recognize that they are in the driver's seat and that is appropriate. we are trying to encourage, make it easier rather than require. 401 k plans are finding they can make the choice is easier. in some cases, not by reducing the number of options, but as you know and you have written eloquently on this, by having one be the default.

if you've got one automatic investment option than it is easier for people that would otherwise be paralyzed by the range of choices to go along with that, and then think over time about whether to diversify. >> so this one, i have no idea what the answer is. could an investment company such as vanguard or a single state implement an automatic ira if congress does not enact such legislation? >> that is the creative thought. >> these are creative people. >> that is why we are here. there is, i think, room for all sorts of innovation along those lines. employers now can voluntarily adopt a payroll deduction ira. if they're not ready to have a plan, and we would hope that automatic ira's if enacted would

encourage more employers to adopt 401 k's when they see how effective payroll based savings is and how their employees appreciate it, but employers that do not have a plan to have a payroll deposit just the way they spend -- send direct deposits of paychecks to people's financial accounts, instead of writing a paper paycheck out and handing it to focus on friday afternoons. that direct deposit of paychecks is a kind of model for taking 5% of that paycheck at the employee's behest and sending it to where ever the employee wants to send it, like an ira. well, you could automatically enrolled employees and the automatic ira would automatically enrolled employees and let employees opt out. you could do something like pat ithat in another context, but

employers have not taken up the payroll deposit ira. either they have adopted a 401 k or a simple ira plan or typically, they have not had a plan. employers have adopted more elaborate plans like defined benefit. but the smaller businesses are typically not doing is voluntarily. that is why the automatic ira would call for employers who are large enough but are not willing to sponsor a plan to at least make the payroll system available to their employees with a tax credit for the employer that would defray any small administrative costs. >> one last one, and then we will let you go because you are only a day from vacation. given the emphasis on automatic futures, is there still a role for financial education? >> that is something i am very glad has been raised.

financial education i would argue is crucial, and even moreso with automatic features. the fact that financial education is not sufficient to generate a breakthrough in savings in the united states does not mean it is not necessary. or tremendously important. i think it is. if you're going to automatically enrolled people in saving at a certain level with a certain investment, you want them to assert their choice. the best thing is for the individual to decide exactly what they want. the auto features are just to help people get off the couch and start saving, to help people get into the system. once they are in the system, if they have not asserted their choice already, they ought to have the opportunity to learn enough about these choices in

order to make the choice that is best for them. it is critical that we promote the financial capability and financial literacy efforts. i know that you, olivia mitchell, others have been leaders in the social security administration. the treasury and the obama administration are strongly supported and have also been trying to advance that. let me add it to connect these themes, in closing, lifetime income, the idea that people need help, advice, other types of assistance in figuring out how to make their savings last and how to make sure they neither run out during retirement nor horde their savings, helping people with

those issues is so education- intensive. it is not only giving them easier methods like lifetime income arrangements, but it is also helping them understand how it all works, however account balance translates into a stream of income, and framing the issue so people will become used to thinking in terms of our retirement or pension paycheck that they need to provide for themselves, rather than just a sum of money whose duration is uncertain. so this has been great. i very much hope we can continue as we have been doing, the dialogue with all of you here. we very much welcome -- "we," the administration, treasury department -- welcome your continues suggestions, ideas, and collaboration on what needs

to be a bipartisan, not ideological effort to promote retirement security for all americans. >> thank you so much. [applause] john, you should come up and take over. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011]