every now and then, things happen simply because it evolves out of preceding circumstance. once the president has responsibility for an issue, he does not want to say the united states is dead wrong. he has the responsibility for dealing with that issue. they inherit the issue. then they try to deal with it. then you can come up with any other number of explanations. i do not think there are indications that the u.s. went into vietnam on economic grounds. host: we are getting a tweet from someone who loves history. guest: the vietnam experience will be with us for a long time. it has been with us and will continue for many years to come. host: "haunting legacy."

you can also watch the conversation on our website the recovered earlier this summer. we will continue the conversation tomorrow morning on "washington journal." we are live coast to coast. we will talk more about the s&p ratings downgrade and what it means for the economy. we're looking at the jobs picture this week. we will discuss a public-private partnership on wednesday and women in the work force on friday. that is all this week on "washington journal." thank you for being with us on the sunday. have a great week ahead. call [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

>> coming up on news makers, representative christopher smith talks about the tensions between sudan and south sudan and u.s. foreign aid. after that, a look at congressional debate on raising the debt ceiling. first, the debate and final bills from the u.s. house, including reaction from members of congress and president obama. if monday on c-span, a discussion of the african- american vote in 2012. speakers include donna edwards and jonathon gate park. if that is live at 12:00 p.m. on c-span. monday on c-span3 discussion on

guns is on college campuses. we will hear from state and local politicians and college professors and students. this event is hosted by the second amendment foundation. you cannot -- watch it live at 12:00 p.m. eastern on c-span3. >> it might not surprise you that we think good things come in twos. >> you can watch live events at c-span.org. >> or you can see them whenever you want at the c-span video library. >> the c-span2 has nonfiction books every week on tv. >> listen to us on your iphone. >> are on your blackberry. if >> is washington your way with this c-span. >> this week on news makers,

tensions in sudan and somalia. two reporters here to help with questions. sean and howard. howard, first question. >> eight groups are rather critical of the world response to somalia and the broader humanitarian crisis in the horn of africa. they say the indicators have been out there for months, if not longer. was this a preventable crisis? >> i think to some extent it was. obviously, in somalia, al- shabab has done a rivet things in denying access -- a horrific things in denying access of aid workers with food and health care. but last january, early

mornings suggested -- early warning suggested that a huge fan and was about to break chart in the horn of africa, especially around somalia. also, doane responses have been slow. -- doane lerch responses have been slow. i have is that one of our meetings we need and it is about to enter million dollars. the u.s., for its part, is providing aid to about one out of every four simoleons that we have access to. if that is not exhibiting, but i do think the administration gets it and will try to do more. countries like saudi arabia and so many others who have not contributed even close to what they are capable of doing, the word needs to go out. any kind of donation made our lives of lee save lives. we need access to contested

areas. >> but there is the problem of al-shabab. working in areas controlled by terrorist groups, that concern has been at their root of some -- at the root f. pulling out of these areas. how do you deal with these areas where people by no fault of the varon lived in natarus controlled area? >> -- no fault of their own lived in an area controlled by a terrorist organization? >> we do have to look out for the well-being and welfare of our own workers and those that

we in rich with our funding to do the good work of humanitarian relief. that said, unless we are willing to commit troops, which i do not think we are, the african union and the u.n. have a relatively strong -- but is it robust enough peacekeeping deployment to get the food aid it? that is an open-ended question. just this week there was another example where food aid was stopped in mogadishu. there was an effort to just take and steal food by roving gangs. and that was more food program. how you get these life-saving medicines and foodstuffs to the people when these gangs who have no conscience with webber -- whatsoever will commit bloodletting?

>> are you saying that the u.n. peacekeeping troops and the african union forces should be marching in? >> i think they should be robustly trying to negotiate carter's of tranquillity. they were used over and over again openly in ethiopia. carter's of tranquility needs to be something that is pushed very strongly. right now, as far as i know it may be there, but not being pushed the way it ought to be. we need to get food for babies, children will die. and those people are leaving by their feet. they become refugees in places like kenya. so many are dying on the way.

and when they get to the refugee camps, they are so close to death and the very young ones and the elderly die soon after entering the camp. the camp in kenya was made for 90,000 people and is now at over 370,000 refugees. it is building at the seams. and people are still arriving by the thousands every week. this crisis needs much more focus on the part of the world leaders. that includes president obama. we have serious problems with our deficit and other problems. the stock market took a real hit during the week. but frankly, we also saw people dying and i think there needs to be much -- a much more focused global effort. we need to get the foodstuffs to the people that need it, or else we will have a massive loss of life to add to the 20 + --

20,000 or more that have died already in the last few years in somalia. >> when you think of somalia, you think of 1992, 1993, the deval köhler and -- the debacle there and the reaction by the united states. what is going on now in terms of what the u.s. can or cannot do to try to help people? >> without security, food aid does not get fit through. the number of african union troops that are deployed and the all-out effort that remain to mitigate the threat of a al- shabab, which you know is another close relative of al qaeda, you know, we know there has been local leadership. the kenyans have tried to step up and make a difference. and it certainly the warehousing and particularly in

kenya so many refugees shows a good neighbor policy if there ever was one. but what it all comes down to, people sometimes say, why are you americans so worried about good governance and just building of countries? the absence of it leads to other -- better chaos, loss of life, and gain warfare. -- leads to utter chaos, loss of life and the gang warfare. it has been demoralized now with that movie, but if i remember being in congress for 31 years and the secretary of defense came before congress after the debacle and the massive loss of life and he said he did not think that additional cape -- additional firepower would fly

on capitol hill. and they said, are you kidding? you never put your troops at risk without sufficient resources. it was a failed mission now because of the bravery of our troops, but because of the inadequacy of the resources. we have to make sure that the african union troops who have stepped up in many parts of africa have the right capabilities and the right mandate to make a difference. i met with major jumbo from kenya and he told mixme, i was deployed to sarajevo in a peacekeeping deployment and i had -- i have the same in fear mandate here that i had in sarajevo. it is not robust enough to help protect innocent civilians. we need to be helping the

african union, making sure they have the right material and the right mandate. >> in these times of deficit, the americans might be asking, what does that mean in terms of dollars and resources that the american people would have to contribute? >> a fraction of any of the numbers we are talking about. the cbo has estimated that by 2021, the interest on the federal debt will be over $1 trillion per year. we are talking about $48 million in fiscal year 2011 to feed the simoleons, plus another $76 million to feed refugees. it is so small. a caricature is often painted about what u.s. humanitarian ford paid -- foreign aid is vis- à-vis the rest of the budget.

$48 million, and that number will go up, but not that substantially. >> u.s. data came down almost 90% -- u.s. aid came down almost 90% after al-shabab was listed as a terrorist organization and aid groups were concerned about working in an area where they could face prosecution for aiding a terrorist organization and u.s. aid came down hugely, 90%. isn't the media really much greater -- the need really much greater than the $48 million? >> the navy is much greater. -- the need is much greater. although, many people have left somalia for places like kenya.

world food program says it does a 6-jobs all over the world. and doest are there -- a significant job all over the world. ngo's that are there are doing a good job, but the response is needed now. ngo's can always step of to the plate because of the way they operate. after the tsunami hit, frankly, it was our special forces that made the difference. it was the lightning speed that they could react and they had airlift capability to get food and medicines to the people that were suffering. the u.n. has no such capability, nor do most of the ngo's. you should see the planes they fly around in. and the planedarfur that they used to fly in was so

loud that you had to cover your ears. >> ngo's put the toll of $1.6 billion and said $300 million is needed in the next few months. >> there is no doubt that there is a wellspring of support on both sides of the aisle to make sure that this at a court funding -- and you know, the administration have the ability to program or reprogram on an emergency basis funding to meet this crisis. there was a donor's conference that was inexplicably canceled. they have to get that thing up and running. and they have to get the other countries to do their fair share. saudi arabia needs to give more. sudan, of all places, is doing more than seven arabia to help

in this crisis, even with all they are going through -- then saudi arabia to help with this crisis, even with all they are going through. the need is infinitesimal, but what that money can buy is huge. >> sean, i'm sure it is the same for you -- i did e-mails in a time i write a story about famine in somalia, etc. i get piles of the males saying, it is their overpopulation problem, they cannot have a government. why should we help? as a congressman, what you say to your constituents? obviously, you are interested in careful federal spending, u.s. spending. what do you say to those kinds of spending questions?

>> i hope some of them are watching this broadcast. i say to them that we are our brothers and sisters' keepers. except for the grace of god we could find ourselves in a grave situation at any time, as we saw when the hurricane hit in louisiana and mississippi. how quickly the deterioration of a situation can occur. a crisis when the idiots, brings us off to the same level. -- a crisis when it hits, brings us off to the same level. there are not overpopulated in any place in africa. i have held a number of hearings in the minds of committing, i have chaired them, and we have talked about how china is coming in and fleecing africa at huge

discounts to build a road to get all kinds of minerals in exchange. the bush your government has given -- the bashir government has given oil for airplanes and now what has built into the newest escalation of blood shed by bashir. >> you held a short hearing yesterday, about what is going on. after the formation of south sudan their bree -- there came a lot of hopes and around the world. how you see them progressing at this point? do you see this situation in

somalia has the same as just before some of saddam got independence? what do you -- south sudan got independence? >> through the good reporting what what both of you are doing, it helps bring this issue back. we had a bishop who talks about our his cathedral was ransacked. he was out getting an operation, so he was out of the country when it all just exploded within the last few weeks. one of his chaplains was beaten senseless. many people have been killed. they have taken off into the hills. the libyan africans who are being targeted because of their faith and because of their ethnicity by the arab khartoum

dictatorship. i met with bashir about five years ago for the better part of almost two hours. he should be at the hague for war crimes and genocide. he is still out the top of the country. he travels around. he was recently in china in june. we saw the red carpet there. instead of being -- he should be arrested and sent to the hague. this man is a war criminal. and our other witnesses, including brad phillips after being out among the people for 12 days, he said, please, what can we do? nobody is paying attention to this escalation in violence. three days later we had a hearing and c-span carry it so much -- more americans would be aware.

and aircraft are dropping bombs indiscriminately on women and children and men and targeting people on the ground. they're making it so they cannot plant. he said, there will be in new famine that will undoubtedly occur and perhaps thousands more will die from hunger. what he asked for and where others ask for is that the administration would make this a priority. there has been far too little interest shown. there have been no u.n. peacekeepers to provide help for some semblance of projection. the people are being mowed down and killed. >> we have a little less than 10 minutes. go ahead, sean. >> in the case of sudan and south sudan, the khartoum government did immediately recognize south sudan this was a

long civil war, but in the end, south sudan did achieve ce.ependent spiri what can the u.s. do more to pressure courtroom? >> when i met with bashir, there may have to be some kind of nuance of the with regards to oil. -- nuanced lifting with regards to oil. how can they grow their economy and meet their incredible needs without the oil wealth that will help south sudan? conversations must be had with khartoum. about lifting sanctions. but in the context of ending the attacks and all of the other

human rights abuses that are being committed as we meet and talk here, this is current. this is not in the past. in south sudan, 2 million people were killed, 4 million were the north because bash tried to implement sharia law on the south. the same thing happened to in darfur, it escalated and became genocide. now we have another mass killing because of what they are, their ethnicity and their faith. made it very clear in his testimony. all over the map, khartoum has committed genocide and now they are doing it again.

>>bashir spoke five years ago about his interest in seeing the trade embargo lifted. but our house china james adequate -- changes that equation? as you said, they are building roads, selling arms, and our eyes that complicated what the u.s. can and cannot do when there is a national power there that is willing to overlook these things? >> china needs to be held to account, one, for their own human rights abuses. i have chaired committees on human rights abuses in china. they are on going on -- ongoing and on a scale like ordaz -- i like it or else in the world. the first of abortion, labor rights. they throw people in jail because they do not want to work. torture does work over time for most people.

i travel to to beijing with frank wolf right before the olympics because we argued rightfully that these for the genocide olympics. to have any major player promoting genocide in sudan is unconscionable. how can you do this? and the whole world just looked askance. for bashir to be going to beijing and be treated with a hero's welcome and to be given all the pomp and circumstance that this man was treated with, when he deserves anything but, -- has a our administration called of hu jintao, who got all these state dinners when he came to town? not one conversation by

president obama on human rights. it was a missed opportunity. china is a key player. they should be held to account for what they are doing and providing in providing all of the material of war to give bashir the opportunity to kill. that is -- that was dafrur and it was south sudan. it the diplomatic nonsense at the u.n., they are directly responsible for the genocide that occurred in sudan, and they are not held to account. >> as you mentioned, it is an oil-producing area and it is strategically important for the

government of khartoum. what could a possible long term solution vdacs could there be the -- long-term solution be? could there be a peacekeeping team there? >> how can you keep a genocidal, aggressive force at bay? you have to have a deployment of people that will step in. the sblm, which is the southern sudan army and the political movement, they have been assisting people in the south. but the international community needs to quickly deploy units to jabr down house killings that are happening right now in one downe larger -- to tamper-o

house killings that are happening right now in one of the larger cities. shootings, ratings, killings are happening right now. -- shootings, rapes, killings are happening right now. >> if you have another hearing this week and it was on -- you had another hearing this week and it was on a medical procedure. the medical term is what? >> it is your international -- cure international. orix water on the brain. >> yes, and it kills 375,000 children in africa every year. a doctor at harvard developed a procedure that is relatively inexpensive. they are trained 11 neurosurgeons in kenya, uganda and other places in africa. you gotta is where the larger hospital is --