-- in the u.n. have a relatively strong unit to get the food aid in. that remains an open question. this week, there was another example where food aid was stopped in mogadishu. an effort was made to steal the food by roving gangs. how do you get these kinds of life-saving medicines and foodstuffs to people when you have gangs who have no conscience and into killing? they may use them in to that end. food was used as a weapon. is being used as a weapon against against women and children.

they should be trying to negotiate corridors of tranquility. they have been used before. it needs to be pushed strongly right now. it may be there but is not being pushed the way it ought to be. we have to get the food or else babies and children will die. they become refugees in the country or in places like kenya. so many are dying. when they get to the camps, so many are so close to death that they die soon after entering into the camps. look at the camp in kenya. it was made for 90,000. it now has over 370,000 refugees.

it is holding at the seams -- bulging at the seams. people are arriving by the thousands every week. the crisis needs much more focus by world leaders. that includes president obama. it was great he had his birthday this week. we had serious problems with our deficit and other problems. the stock market took a hit during the week. but we also have people dying. there needs to be much more focused effort and global leadership on the part of the united states and europe to get the food to people or we will have a massive loss of life. >> this issue has been going on for quite some time. we think of 1992 and 1993 in somalia with the debacle after

the well-minute response by the united states. what are the lessons we can draw from that in terms of what the u.s. can or cannot do? >> without security, food aid does not get through. the rosthe mandate, the efforts made to mitigate the threat of al-shabab which is a close relative of al qaeda -- we know there has been local leadership. others have tried to step up and make a difference. in kenya, their housing many refugees. they have shown a good neighbor policy if ever there was one. peacekeepers are dying. ethiopians lost a large number of people during their deployment. people ask why americans are worried about.

governance and building up countries. the absence leads to a broader chaos and loss of life. "blackhawk down" immortalized what happened in somalia. the secretary of defense said he did not think additional firepower and capability would fly on capitol hill. democrats and republicans said we would never put our troops at risk without sufficient resourcing. it was a failed mission because there were inadequate resources.

we have to do more to make sure the deployment of african union troops who have stepped up have the right kind of capability and mandate to make a difference. i met with major jumbo from king from kenya in darfur. he said he had the same interior mandate there as in sarajevo. it was not robust enough to protect innocent civilians. we need to help the african union and make sure they have the right material and mandate. that goes to the u.n. security council. >> americans may ask what that means in terms of dollars and resources we would have to

contribute. >> it is a fraction of the numbers we're talking about. the cbo has estimated by 2021, the interest on the federal debt will be over $1 trillion per year. $48 milliong about in 2011 to feed the simoleons plus another $76 million for refugees. it is so small. it is so small compared to the rest of the budget. it is $40 million. that number will go up. it will not go up substantially. >> is it $48 million because u.s. aid came down almost 90% after al-shabab was listed as a

terrorist organization? aid groups got concerned about working in an area where they could face prosecution for enriching or aiding a terrorist organization. usaid came down 90%. is the need much greater than $48 million? >> is much greater. we were at $400 million in 2009. that has dropped to under $100 million. refugees are a different group. a lot of those are in kenya who have left somalia. the key is helping humanitarian organizations. the world through program does a magnificent job all over the world. ngo's are there on the ground at great risk to themselves. rapid response is needed now.

ngo's cannot always step up to the plate because of the way i operate. after the tsunami, it was our special forces that made all of the difference because of the speed they could react. they had airlift capabilities to get food and medicine to the people suffering. the u.n. has no such capacity or capability nor do the ngo's. i was on an old russian helicopter that was so loud. that is how the people who do this rework live every day plus the threat from al-shabab and others. >> it is said that three and $2 million is required in the next few months. is there any movement on capitol

hill? >> there is a wellspring of support on both sides of the aisle to make sure there is adequate funding. the administration has the ability to program funding to meet the crisis. there was a donors conference the was inexplicably canceled. they have to get other countries to do their fair share. i mentioned saudi arabia. sudan is getting more than saudi arabia to help in this terrible crisis. every day, a delay is denial if we do cannot come forward. the amount of aid is infinitesimal. the amount of what can by to help is huge.

>> this follows up on your question. i get emails any time i write about famine in somalia. i get piles of the mail saying it is their over-population problem. they do not have a government. why should we help? as a congressman, what do you say to your constituents? you are interested in careful federal spending. what do you say to those kinds of questions? >> i say clearly that we are our brothers and sisters' keepers. except for the grace of god, go any one of us at any time. we could find ourselves in a grave situation at any time. we saw it when the hurricane

hit in louisiana. we saw how quickly the deterioration of circumstances occurred. people were not getting food. they have no medicine. they were on top of homes. crisis brings us all to the same level. the same goes for africa. somalia is 10 million people. they are not over populated nor is any place in africa. resources are just waiting for proper cultivation. i have held a number of hearings where we talked about how china is coming in and fleecing africa at huge discounts. to build the road, they get all kinds of minerals in exchange. the bashir government has given oil to china.

in return, they get aircraft to wage war on the south. there is a new escalation of bloodshed committed by them. >> you held an emergency hearing yesterday talking about the issue of south kurdistan in what is going on there. south sudan became independent. this is a place where millions have died in wars over the decades. how do you see south kurdistan progressing? do you fear this could be another situation like south sudan before independence? the bishop was talking about evidence of mass killing. are you concerned about that? >> i am deeply concerned. it is happening almost invisibly.

because of good reporting and hearings, it helps to bring the information out. we had the bishop who talked about how his cathedral was ransacked. he was out getting in operation. he was out of the country when it all exploded in the last few weeks. ains was beatenlin' senseless. many people have been killed. people have taken off into the hills. nubian africans are being targeted because of their faith and ethnicity by the arab dictatorship. i met with bahir about five years ago. i argued with him. he should be at the hague for war crimes and genocide. he has been indicted.

he travels around. he was recently in china in june. he received the red carpet treatment. instead of being arrested and sent to the hague for prosecution. this man is a war criminal and genocider. other witnesses, including brad phillips who said what can you do question and nobody's paying attention to this escalation in violence. three days later, we had a hearing. c-span carried if so many americans became more aware of it. the bishop made another point. the second issue that will drop besides them dropping bombs on innocent people is that they are making it so they cannot plant. he says there will be a new

famine that will undoubtedly occur and perhaps thousands more will die from hunger. they are asking that the obama administration make this a priority. there has been little interest shown. there have been no u.n. peacekeepers to provide some semblance of protection. people are being mowed down and killed. >> we have little less than 10 minutes. >> in the case of south sudan, the khartoum government did recognize them. there was the long process of the civil war. in the end, south sudan did achieve independence. what can the u.s. and international community due to

pressure cartoon -- khartoum? >> there may have to be some nuance with regards to oil. it becomes about how they do business and grow their economy to meet their incredible needs without the oil wealth that will help south sudan. the conversation must be had with khartoum about lifting sanctions. it needs to be context of ending the tax and all of the other human rights abuses being committed as we talk here. this is current day. this is not in the past. in south sudan, 2 million were killed and 4 million were displaced because the north tried to impose sharia law on

the south by way of force. there was a peace treaty with the south. that is when darfur escalated and became a terrible genocide and to itself. now we have mass killing because of who they are, their ethnicity and faith. the bishop made that clear in his testimony. the targeting of the people to eliminate them whole or in part. all over the map, khartoum has committed genocide. and now they're doing it again. >> bashir spoke about his interest in seeing the trade embargo lifted. how has china changed the equation? they are coming in and building roads, selling arms.

how has that complicated with the u.s. can and cannot do when there is an international power they're willing to overlook? >> china needs to be held accountable for their own human rights abuses. chaired meetings on their human-rights abuses. democracy, labor rights. they throw people into prison because they want to organize. they used torture against any political prisoner until you write some sort of statement saying you did it. torture does work overtime for most people. i traveled to beijing with frank wolf right before the olympics. we argued unsuccessfully that these were the genocide olympics. to have the olympics in china when they are in major player in promoting genocide in sudan is

unconscionable. yet the whole world just looked askance. for bashir to be treated with the pomp and circumstance of the legitimate leader when he is anything but brought more dishonesty to beijing. has our administration called up hu jin tao? there was not one mention of human rights abuses by president obama. there was a scathing editorial about the missed opportunity. i do not want to get too much into china, but china is a key player. they should be held to account for what they're doing in providing all the material

afford to give bashir the ability to kill innocent people. that is darfur and it was southern sudan were always people died. it is never too late for china to come clean and become part of the solution. they paid some of the service to it. there is diplomatic nonsense the editor at the united nations. there directly responsible for the genocide and they are not held to account. >> you mentioned is an area that is strategic economically for the government in khartoum. what could the solution be? could peacekeepers come in? >> the peacekeepers are how you

keep a genocidal, aggressive force of day. you have to have the deployment of people who will step in. sbln is the southern sudan army and political movement. they have been assisting people in the south. the international community needs to stop the killings occurring now in one of the larger cities. they are going house to house. they're finding them, shooting them, beating them, raping the women. it is happening right now. a deployment immediately could be very effective in mitigating the loss of life. >> we have about a minute left. let me run some things by you. quick answers, if we could. you have another hearing this

week. it was on a medical procedure in your gone the -- uganda. it is cure international. cephaly kills over 300,000 children a year in africa. a doctor developed a procedure that is relatively inexpensive. they have trained doctors and africa. uganda is where the larger hospital is. it has been running for 10 years and is like the best kept secret ever wea. these kids that would have died a horrible death are not only living but they are returning to normal state because of this operation. >> you were passionate enough about this to have a hearing. what is your motivation?

what is behind your passion and focus on this area? >> all of my work on humanitarian issues is motivated by my face. and mentioned earlier about being our brothers and sisters' keepers. i am a catholic. we are admonished by the scripture. i believe passionately that what we do to our brothers we do to our lord. to be a person subjected to anti-semitism or someone in the south sudan who is being told they have to become muslim. it could be a muslim who is subjected to other things. wiggars are in china and happen to be muslims. they are terribly oppressed.

>> your idea of quarters of tranquillity to get aid into areas of somalia, will you be doing something to take that beyond an idea to the administration or outside? >> we asked the administration to pursue it. we have a letter going to the administration to that effect. it has worked in the past. i remember meeting with the ethiopian delegation in new york in the 1980's when the famine was exacerbated by the dictator. our big push was to get the corridors of tranquility because so many people were buying. there were modest successes. i was in el salvador in the early 1980's when the flm, communists, and the president negotiated a day of

tranquillity. where there is a will to say lay down the arms and get humanitarian assistance to the people or else they will die -- i think al-shabab and others if there were an effort led by the obama administration, we could get the food to the people who are starving. >> thank you for being on "newsmakers." we are back with our reporters. howard lafranchi, let me begin with you on somalia and the corridors of tranquility. what did he mean by that? ofwe've also heard the term humanitarian corridors. it is used in recent history when there is a conflict.

civilians are suffering for whatever reason. there have been arrangements where the fighting sides have stood back and allowed international organizations to come in in a safe corridor and deliver food and assistance. it is not to stop the fighting to guarantee it does not have been there so the what is needed can come in. the difference here is that al- shabab is a terrorist organization. it is not a government. it is not even a classic rebel group. we're hearing now that they are benefiting from the state of famine because they are able to tell civilians that if they are

hungry, they should join up because they will help them out. i think it is a worthy proposal. i will be interested to see where it goes. i think you are playing with a different group that does not necessarily have in their interest to allow it to happen. >> is that the reason why it has not happened yet? >> al-shabab has been linked to al qaeda. it said that all western influence should go. this is a group very similar to the taliban in terms of ideology is not necessarily influence. it has been difficult for the administration to find any reason to work with them at all. the obama administration authorized armed shipments to the transitional government to fight al-shabab. the administration has started to say that it is such a crisis

that we will not prosecute groups for trying to bring in a. --aid. al-shabab does not have a leader to deal with directly. the administration does not see it as a monolithic force renegotiate with the leader. that could be an advantage to a certain extent. it makes things more difficult. in some areas, there could be more hope than in others. certain al-shabab leaders may be more amenable. >> howard, tell our viewers what you are watching for in somalia in the coming days. >> as the congressman said, there needs to be some kind of quick response. we have heard the african union is talking about the donors' conference at the end of august. i think most experts agree that

is not fast enough. that is in terms of addressing the famine now. what also bears watching is agricultural experts who will tell you that the long-term answers are there. there has to be a government in place. in terms of better seeds, irrigation systems using little water, there has to be a focus on the long term solutions for the countries throughout the horn of africa. >> thank you both for being part of "newsmakers." [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> wednesday, the president celebratedis