then author robin wright talks about her latest book. later, we begin a week-long look at jobs in america. we will talk about work force trading in government initiative programs. "washington journal" host: the financial markets are reacting to news of u.s. credit rating downgrade an economic concern in europe. we are looking at cnnmoney.com, showing us how the markets are fairing. the shanghai composite and the nikkei closed down this morning. european markets are slightly lower. the u.s. market opens in a little over two hours today. good morning and welcome to "washington journal" for august 8, 2011.

we will talk more about the markets in a moment with robin harding. we like to ask this question of deal. can america still lead? here are the numbers to call. we are also on e-mail. you can tweet us. you continue the conversation on our facebook page. we can read your comments from there. let's take a look at what e.j. dionne writes today.

what do you think? can america still lead? let's continue on. let's get right to the phones. dennis on the line for democrats in maryland. good morning.

caller: good morning. thank you for the opportunity. the short answer, yes, americans still lead. america is still the richest nation in the history of the world. we still have trillions and trillions of dollars that these bankers are sitting on that they will not release into the economy. even though the president has to deal with this small minority of republicans, the so-called tea party people, who has his hands tied, i think it is really a shame that the credit score had to be reduced. i blame it -- i put it squarely on the backs of the republicans.

one last thing. america will get a chance to speak next year in the elections and i can guarantee you they are going to clean house with these republicans. host: dennis, who do you look to to leave? you mentioned you think bankers are sitting on money. the look to congress? caller: i think it will take a combination of grown-ups on both sides of the political i will -- the political aisle. it will take the president, naturally, to lead. it will take grown up senators and grown up people in the house. host: juan, republican in maryland. good morning what -- good morning. what do you think? can america still lead?

caller: yes. just because they have not been able to combine efforts to work with both sides of the aisle does not mean the country, as a nation, cannot lead. countries around the world still recognize america is the no. 1 business power. i believe we have had a lot of hiccups, especially when we continue to dear to create -- continue to deteriorate our businesses. we need jobs. if the jobs were here, we would not have an issue. there would be plenty of revenue to pay for our debt. people would not mind going out and making purchases if they had a job. i think we will have a chance at a new leadership. the president has already demonstrated he does not have the skills or experience to lead a group of combined republicans

or democrats. he was not able to get everybody together on one thing. host: we will be talking about jobs later in the program. we will kick off a week-long series about jobs. let's look back at the e.j. dionne commentary. it says --

let's hear from alfred in connecticut. caller: [inaudible] we need to vote. there's only roughly 30% or 40% of individuals who actually go out there and vote for something that is as important as president of the united states. congress needs to get rid of the career politicians. you have politicians in power whose concern is themselves and of their constituents. america can continue to lead, but we as a people need to continue to vote. i am a veteran. here we are with the freedom, the privilege to vote, and

people just sit back and have others decide where this country's going. host: let's go to henry on the line for democrats. are you a voter? caller: yes, and i have voted in every election. one of the callers indicated the president has inability. if you look back at what he was facing, is started on day one when he was elected. now for s&p and the $2 trillion mistake in calculation, i guess the republicans in the tea party would say this is a nail in his coffin. the president has been doing everything he can to reach across both aisles and he has tried to nurture a corporations, but they will not cooperate with him. he has delivered on everything

he has promised, but there are too many obstacles in the way that are deliberately set there. is there that great and that good with the constituency, why don't they start in florida, like taking away the old people's social security and medicare and then move to texas where all these high-powered republicans are? thank you. host: let's take a look at a different perspective coming to us on twitter. woodbridge, virginia. charles is a republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i have two quick points. yes, i believe america can lead. the first thing congress needs to do is address the trade agreements and kill them, especially the one with china. that's our problem. if you want to get jobs in this

country, get the industry going. i am not a tea partier, but i do not understand everybody blasting the tea party. if this was not for them, this would not be an issue. everybody keeps calling them terrorists. after the standard and poor's recent comment that if the government does not show that it can get its house in order, then it may even degrade our debt rating even more. i believe that puts them in the seats now where they seem to be controlling the government. i think we need to look out for standard and poor's. they're in a powerful position. host: we will be talking about that more in the program. let's look at this "usa today" cover story. "how bad will it get?" it says, "investors, brace yourself for more potential chaos."

let's take a look at comments treasury secretary geithner made on cnbc sunday. >> if you look at this country and this economy, our country is much stronger and then washington. we are a very strong country. i have enormous confidence in the american economy and the american people. we are growing. we are still healing. we are not growing as fast as you like. we have absolutely had the capacity to reach our obligations. there's no risk the united states would ever be in a position not to meet its obligations. we have a lot of work to do. when these leaders returned from vacation, they will have to get back to work to put together the long-term fiscal reforms, and take additional actions to help strengthen this economy. host: treasury secretary geithner, who will be sticking around the white house.

we will be looking at a news on that in a moment. let's go to mark on the line for independents. we lost mark. let's go to north carolina. robert, the democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i have been trying for years to get through. host: we're glad you got here. caller: barack obama, one of the best presidents we've ever had. host: what makes you think so? caller: have you ever had a president go in there and pat a snak oe on the head? adam and eve. same thing with christopher columbus. you walk through the bush and

you carried a stick and pop him on the head. barack obama, the only way -- we're going to have to go [inaudible] period. thank you. host: karen, on the line for republicans. caller: i think america can lead. it's about authority. you only have authority when people respect you. first of all, our congress people need to start respecting the president so that he can lead. we have to change our tone of how we speak to each other, especially on taxes and spending. when you think about taxes, we always talk about the top 2% and how much they pay. they benefit the most.

we want to increase security. we even have a department of homeland security. we want to fight wars, but we do not want to pay for it. we cannot have all these things. we cannot have them without paying for it. on spending, we have to change the tone. everything is spending. every business that operates spends, whether or not they are reorganizing or not. everything is spending. it's ridiculous, a tone that says we need to stop spending. that means nobody will show up to work. nobody will answer the phone when you call 911. no one's going to save you when you are out hiking on some mountain -- to come get you. it's ridiculous. we need to change our tone. host: let's take a look at this piece from "usa today," an associated press story.

"he is sticking around. economicf obama's advisers have departed, including lawrence summers and two chief economic advisers." let's take a listen to david axelrod is speaking this weekend on the tea party's role, in his opinion, on what he thinks they may have done to lead to the downgrade. let's take a listen. >> let's look at the history of this.

this is essentially a tea party downgrade. the tea party brought us to the brink of a default. by the way, you said before -- if we had defaulted on our debt, the consequences would have been dramatic and lasting. you know, it was the right thing to do, avoid that default. it was the wrong thing to do to push the country to that point. host: david axelrod, a political strategist, on cbs talking about the downgrade. here is how "the wall street journal" is covering it this morning. an image here of an employee of the tokyo stock exchange washing the index board as she waited for the markets to open last night -- exchange watching the index board as she waited for the markets to open last night. the european central bank signaled it would purchase

government bonds of italy and spain on a large scale. that is from "the wall street journal" and also part of what is influencing financial markets this morning. let's go to syracuse, new york. ron on the line for independents. hi, ron. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: the question was, can america still lead? i would say, god, i hope not. we have to look at exactly what this country leads in. in the industrialized world, we lead in the inequality, poverty, homelessness, drug abuse, child abuse, and the main thing we lead in is the difference between public opinion and public policy. that means we do not really have

democracy here. the share raid playing now in congress points that out all the more. host: who do you think would be a better world leader than the united states? which nation? caller: i do not like the idea of world leaders. i would like the world to come together and work toward the ideals that america claims to have, democracy, liberty, you know. maybe a group of countries can take some lead, as they do in certain international disputes. i do not think the world needs leaders. i think the world needs governments that pay attention to the needs of their people. host: let's go to potomac, maryland.

a democratic collar, good morning. caller: good morning. i have a couple of things i would like to say. i am a democrat and i do like barack obama, but i'm very disappointed in what happened in congress. i think both parties have sold america out. i am sad they have done that. i think one of the big issues that nobody is talking about is we have a failed global economic policy. that is what has caused the deficit. it has outsourced american jobs. it has made huge deficits because we no longer collect import taxes from countries like china. we could solve all of our problems by looking at the global economic policy that has caused all these problems for our country. the fact that our political organizations have gone along with these corporations, there's no alternate minimum tax for corporations, and i think those are things we have to start

looking at. to put america back to work, we have to start bringing back jobs to america. that's really the problem. we are spending $2 billion per day on wars in a country that do not give a darn about us. that's another thing we have to stop. host: let's listen to a comment from footer -- from twitter. let's hear how republican senator lindsay rahm responded on "face the nation" yesterday -- lindsay graham. >> tea party has come to washington talking about reducing spending. thank god they are here. the agreement fell well short of what the rating agencies were looking at. thet has not destroyed -- the

tea party has not destroyed washington. washington was destroyed before the tea party got there. host: senator graham on "face the nation." let's take a look at what's happening on facebook. that is facebook.com/cspan. roy in raleigh, n.c., good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. we definitely have to get our fiscal house in order. to take everything that's happened so far -- the tea party, who everyone has said for

the past year is irrelevant, is really ridiculous. it's the policies that are set forth by the administration that has caused a lot of the issues that we have now. the stock standard and poor's gave warning way early that they had to reduce the deficit. that was the warning that was given. they just ignored it and said we will do it our way. then they came back with the standard and poor's and they just downgraded us. they knew it was coming. they keep spending and spending and spending. no one in america today business-wise or in your home can operate a checkbook or a balance sheet and come across with the figures that we are in this government of spend, spend, spend with no constraint at all.

there are a lot of freedoms in this country that people get, but they are not free giveaways. we should help each other for sure. the poor people and the people that are injured, the elderly, and the children, we should always look out for them. to give this country away at the sick of losing everything that our forefathers, up to the people who are fighting battles now, is ridiculous. to blame republicans -- to keep going back and forth with a two- party system, which in my opinion is not working anymore. host: gary on twitter says -- e.j. dionne has this in "the washington post" today, asking, can america still lead?

from bronx, new york on the line for independents, samuel is up next. good morning. caller: good morning. i do not think america can lead. the world watched the raising the debt ceiling. we waited until the last minute, putting people's social security checks in jeopardy again. the whole world was watching us. i think it is good would happen. maybe now we will become more serious. before this happened, i saw the republicans and the tea party gleefully acting like they were holding the president hostage.

the whole world watched us. they downgraded us. right now, i think we should be. host: let's look get a story from "usa today." maryland, tommy, democrats' line. caller: good morning. i think america can still lead. one of the major problems we have now is the direction the tea party and republicans are trying to take us. you have eric cantor and john boehner. they have admitted their number one priority is to get barack

obama out of the presidency. they are going to do whatever it takes. the one thing i like about the president we have now is that he is talking about a balanced approach. we need to invest. we have to grow our economy. we have to grow our way out of this. the plea only cut spending, like the republican plan had, what you're going to have is -- they are going to balance the budget of the weakest. those who wore on social security, who have to have medicare and medicaid, and that is not right, especially when you are giving a $4 billion subsidy to all companies. this type of imbalance needs to be stopped. the american people have to realize that in 2012, we have to pull these republicans out of office. host: republican in cleveland,

ohio. what do you think? caller: the democrats need to get off the sound bite railroad train. i wanted to explain to everybody, there are only 60 tea partier of 43 people -- of 413 people. they only have one vote. i think the tea party caucus only has 38 people. do not blame it on the tea party. it is everybody's fault. fiscal responsibility is something we have got to do. we have got to get all of our entitlements under control. it's a mathematical scheme that cannot work for more than 10 years. host: what do you think about the prospect of america leading? absolutely caller: weekend. we are the brightest, ingenious -- caller: we can, absolutely. we are the brightest. we have to have capitalism.

capitalism made us what we are today. we are a wonderful leader and we will continue to be a wonderful leader. let's get our fiscal house in order and quit blaming the silly tea party. we're not as strong as ever but is giving us credit for. thank you very much. host: let's go to the column in "the washington post." host: as far as the democrats are concerned, they got a better reveal on the debt ceiling. -- a better review on the debt ceiling. let's go to dayton, ohio.

tim on the line for independents. welcome. caller: this is tom. host: good morning. caller: i'm running for president of the fair trade party. host: can america still lead? caller: from what i hear through this conversation is i think 89% of us or 98% want the trade agreement stopped. i used to make $10.85 in 1985. this is what capitalism is. i do not know if that is leading or not. i heard the president talk about free trade. i watched the show yesterday and they were talking about the free

trade with three of. he said he was one to have a hard time keeping his company open. we need to listen to america somebody said 70% of america wants a balanced budget and he said, "i don't care. i'm doing what's right for the country." host: let's look at a comment on twitter. coming up in about half an hour, we will talk about the 2012 campaign and the economy with conservative jason mattera. first, robin harding of "the financial times" talking about the s&p downgrade. we will be right back.

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now signed into law, watch the debate from the house and senate floors and see what your elected officials said and how they voted. there is video of the recession and complete voting records. when members return in september, follow more of the process, including daily for actions in committee hearings, at c-span.org/congress. >> "washington journal" continues. host: robin harding is u.s. economics editor at "the financial times." good morning. guest: good morning. host: you have a story in today's paper looking at the decision of the s&p to downgrade the u.s. credit rating, but there's a complication because the white house has accused it of making a $2 trillion mistake. how did this happen? guest: this is a remarkable story.

on friday, s&p came to the treasury and said they were going to do this downgrade. the treasury economist looked at this and said we think there was an error in your numbers. s&p agreed that the numbers were not the most appropriate ones to use. the administration uses harsher terms than that. they decided to go through with the downgrade anyway. what's really hard is to actually say how substantial it is. was it really important. looking at the s&p rating criteria, it seems like it would potentially affect a rating decision. on the other hand, the way the markets are responding, and the with the people in the markets are responding, is they say they've known the fiscal problem has been going on for years. essentially, s&p's decision was dysfunctional politics in

washington, as opposed to the deficit numbers. they are kind of trucking this off. host: how significant is this? we heard a lot on the talk shows yesterday. how significant is it in terms of the u.s. reliability and what it means for investors? guest: it is a washington story and it's a short-term story. an s&p downgrade does not change anything about the creditworthiness of the u.s. it does not change the size of the deficit or the debt. it is embarrassing for s&p, i think, but i also think it will be forgotten within a few days. host: this is from "the financial times" front page. this is also really affecting the markets. walk us through what is going on in the spanish and the italian markets. guest: i know it sounds obscure, but this is the story that has out censored everything

that's going on at the moment, the steady deterioration of the european powerful -- european peripheral countries. we're going on to some big countries, spain and italy. the difference is -- with ireland and greece, you can bail them out. if spain gets in trouble in markets refuse to lend to them, that's hard to fix. that's hundreds of billions of euros per year in financing needs. that's why there's so much turmoil as a result of this problem. what has happened over the weekend is that the very short market moves have forced the ecb to change its policy. essentially, the ecb has said it would buy italian and spanish debt and that's what it has done in the markets this morning. we have seen the yields in the italian and spanish that come down. the question, it will that be

enough to restore market confidence and persuade private investors that they want to lend money to spain and italy? host: the ecb is the european central bank. guest: yes. host: how do other countries measure up as far as s&p ratings? i wanted to look at this in "the wall street journal." they compare the ratings. in our category now, belgium, new zealand. is it so much the rating or is it more the change of a rating that is significant? guest: that's a very good question and it's another thing that the treasury and the administration were pretty upset about over the weekend. france, which has almost the same size as us -- was going on? i think the answer is -- they

have a set of very fixed criteria. if you happen to fall on one side of the dividing line, then you get that rating. kind of understand that. they do not really looks so closely. the difference between aaa and aaa plus is very small in their minds. the question is, the potential of a downgrade for france, as well. host: how much of a severe impact would that have? guest: the central thing to understand about economic stories at the moment is is the keenness of impact, hit after hit. by themselves, neither of those things would be a big deal. all these things together in a short amount of time have the potential to shake people's confidence and have a knock-on

effect of, do you want to go out and buy a car when you are hearing these things? host: let's listen to austin goalan goolsbee. >> rating agencies that did not make a $2 trillion error and what warren buffett said, i think with the s&p downgrade based on questionable mathematics is the root of why the treasury said that. if you get away from -- was a mistake in what they did, the broader point being, we've just gone through a period where members of the u.s. government were standing up and saying maybe it would be ok if the u.s. default on some of its

obligations. that's a deeply unsettling moment. host: how typical is it for people to protest when they get the downgrade? is it normal to see the leaders of the nation and people like david axelrod going after their and waging a campaign against s&p's decision? guest: is extremely common. what we've seen in europe, and in many ways, is a preview to what has happened here. there have been some furious riles with the ratings agencies. this is almost routine story downgrade to go like this. -- routine for a downgrade to go like this. sometimes there's an element of

truth and sometimes it's the natural response to push back against these people. host: let's go to the phones. ron on the line for democrats. caller: we have approximately eight tons of gold reserves in the u.s. prices, whynflated are we not able to sell it at the high price and pay off our debt? when is congress going to pay us back for the multiple times they have borrowed from social security? they have borrowed hundreds of billions, if not trillions from social security. guest: on gold, i suppose you have to think about what is the reason the u.s. is holding the gold? it is holding it as a reserve

asset, as opposed to financial speculation that it will buy when it's cheap and sell when it's expensive. clearly, you could sell gold and you could realize a certain amount of dollars and reduce the national debt a little bit. it would not come close to paying it off. it's the question of what you're holding it for. the question about social security, in a sense, it's an accounting question. the government borrows from one account to lend to another point i know that the trustees of medicare and social security do not really like that. they find that accounting a great deal of concern. with a gets sorted out, is anybody's guess -- when it gets sorted out is anybody's guess. caller: this is planned. it is double taxation when they are stealing from social security. we need to raise tariffs. that's all there is to it.

thank you very much. guest: the points about america's fiscal situation is there are only two ways to deal with it. you either raise taxes or you cut social security, medicare benefits, or both. one of those two things are both of them will have to happen. host: in "the wall street journal" they have a piece talking about how this is an example of how much power the rating industry has. it mentions that more trouble came from ratings of complicated debt instruments tied to the housing market. s&p, moody's, and fitch underestimated how far housing prices would fall. someone writes on twitter, "it makes you wonder if you can

trust anything the ratings agencies say." guest: they took a huge credibility hit because of what happened with the ratings for subprime mortgage bonds. what was particularly bad about that is there appeared to be a profound conflict of interest where they would be paid to rate these things. it was entirely in their interest to keep raising them. there has been a big regulatory backlash as a result of that. you have to have some way of assessing if the debt is good. individual investors cannot go out and check every bond in every bar where. -- every bond in every bor rower. host: dave, republican in new york. good morning. caller: good morning. the last article you just read stated what i was going to

state. just wondering how much reliability we can put in s&p after they went across the global aaa rating the collateralized debt obligations. i would like to know what parameters they use when they do rate us. the other ratings agencies have not touched us yet. i would like to know what instruments they use when they come up with these ratings. that's basically my question. thank you. guest: stop me if i get boring. there are five criteria s&p uses. they include a political score, monetary score, an international score, an economics corp., which is the growth prospects, and another

one escapes my mind at the moment. the point on the u.s. downgrade -- they pointed to the fiscal score. they essentially said what we all know, that the u.s. fiscal position has deteriorating. the one they really cited as the justification for the downgrade was the political score. they said, "cannot trust the reliability and certainty of washington policy-making to tackle deficits in a way that's consistent with a aaa rating." host: jack follows up on this on twitter and wants you to talk about the relationship of s&p with banks. he wants to know if there's a conflict of interest and if this is a political move by s&p. guest: there is potentially a conflict of interest when they are rating bonds, because the person selling the bond generally pays the rater. when they do sovran ratings, they are not paying for that.

i would not say it's a public service, but more as part of their business. it's what they do. it's hard to say there's a direct conflict of interest. it's extremely unlikely that s&p had political motivations for the move. i do not know what they politically achieved any way. clearly, s&p is feeling the pain of some political backlash from washington. whether that amounts to anything, i'm not sure. host: politics factored into their decision as far as the stability of the political situation, but ideally, one would hope, not influencing politics -- political things are not influencing them from behind the scenes. host: let's look at "the financial times" today.

guest: i think that's right. s&p did not tell us anything we did not know. they just looked at the number and said, "we've changed our opinion about what the numbers tell us." what's the alternative to the u.s. and u.s. treasury bonds? btere's no other issuer of de of comparable quality and liquidity. u.s. treasuries and u.s. dead will remain the instrument of the global financial system -- u.s. debt will remain the instrument of global financial system for the long-term. host: what's the barometer by which you will look at in a month or two months or six months? when is it time to know how this downgrade has affected things in the long term? when do we start to notice more of a trend, rather than an initial reaction, or nervousness by investors?

guest: put this in a long-term way of thinking. it's a really important question, which is, does the u.s. dollar and u.s. treasury bonds remain the assets at the core of the global financial system? that is something which is of huge benefit to the u.s. essentially, the world pays the u.s. a fee every year for the purpose of using the u.s. dollar as the reserve asset. longer-term -- not next month -- decades. how are u.s. treasury rates compared to those of a large nation, such as china? is there another asset that looks preferable to investing your money in u.s. treasuries? that's the really fundamental question here. host: let's go to missouri. jim on the line for independents. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call.

the problem we have is not over the debate over the debt ceiling, it's the fact that we owe $14 trillion. that's the problem. we got there by learning that by our vote we control the purse strings of the treasury. the american public is basically to blame for the mess we are in. they never get criticized. the media most certainly do not criticize them. the politicians, most certainly, are not going to criticize them. the real problem that we are in is directly on the shoulders of the american people. guest: well, you cannot say that

is untrue. the u.s. people voted for more spending and less taxes. the deficits have resulted from those political choices. maybe you should not be so hard on the american people. as a foreigner, i sense a lot of willingness to tackle the problem, but it's not have been -- it is not happening through the political system. the big question in this town, how do you make that happen? how do you allow the political system to express what i think is the view of the majority of the people? host: robin harding is u.s. economics editor at "the financial times" and the website is ft.com. host: jack writes on twitter -- jim writes --

i wanted to ask you about the g-7 -- from bloomberg. what is going on there? guest: the group of seven leading industrial countries had a conference call on sunday evening where they discussed all the things that are going on. principally, i'm told they discussed europe, as opposed to the s&p downgrade. they agreed it was very nasty of s&p and ratings agencies are horrible people. the g-7 statement was classic. it was sort of -- we reaffirm that we will deal with instability and losses and long sentences. they are trying to prepare

people and they are also preparing so that there were to be another real financial crisis like we saw in 2008, that central bank governors and finance ministries are geared up to make a policy response to that. another interesting point about this is that it is the g-7 that meant. these days, the g-20, includes china and the other premiere countries, is meant to be the group. it turns out that they never want anything done in a crisis. the g-7 seems to have the cohesion to do it. host: let's go to the phones. tom, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to start off reminding everybody there what the french political philosopher said about this nation.

he said that america is great because america is good. host: what does that mean to you? caller: when it ceases to be good, it will cease to be great. what is happening right now is we are watching our political system -- the world is watching this. our political system has degenerated into representatives for the predator class and representatives for the parasite class, and the 70% in the middle has no representation. i think what is going on right now with this standard and poor's -- let me remind everybody that standard and poor's was one of the ratings agencies that stood by and allowed the derivatives fraud to develop, ok. i think what they are doing now is prepping us so -- for another big jump in increases. i think what you will see happen

in the next two years is massive increases in credit card debt and things like car loans, because they have got written into all these contracts that they can raise their rates whenever they please. this is why so many of them are based in delaware, where they have no use three law -- no us uary law. guest: there's a question of what this will mean for market interest rates, credit card rates, car loans. chances are, in the short term, it probably will not have that much impact. fore's not much alternative people looking for investments. they will probably have to invest in the u.s., which will keep rates down. about the political system, this is really the fundamental question for the u.s. how it makes sure its institutions can answer the

questions that the people are asking them? host: this is from the ap. what is your reaction to that? guest: that's a nice intro. nosedives, crashing stocks -- we like writing those. i don't think it's that dramatic. asian stocks are down a bit, but you would expect that. the important thing to remember is the s&p news started to leak out to the u.s. markets on friday. the u.s. markets reacted quite a lot to this news. we may not see such dramatic moves today. asia is still catching up. that surprises me not at all and i'm not sure. host: what will you be watching

for the american markets to do today? is there a certain number where you feel like it will be very significant, or not as much of a dip as expected? guest: two things. first is the yield on treasury securities. if they rise substantially -- for example, the 10-year bond yield rising to 10 or 20 basis points, then that would be bad. that shows markets are reacting negatively to the news. and then the stock markets -- as it continues its downward trajectory, i would say that less of a reaction to the s&p and more of a reaction to the broader economic malaise that you have to be concerned about. economic malaise feeds on itself and that's how you get recession. we will be looking for the stock market reaction.

tomorrow, the federal reserve meets. that's going to be a profoundly important point for markets, at least in the short term. investors are already building up anticipation for what might or might not help them. host: a democrat in cleveland. good morning. caller: good morning. host: hi. caller: i would like to make two points. the credit system has been in need of a correction for quite some time nationally as well as internationally. i would point to that as a part of wall street reform, but it has not happened yet. do we still have for knox gold? the price of gold has still quadrupled. what is our goal worsen now? would the underscore are credit

deficit? it should be worth at least $17 trillion by now. guest: gold -- i'm not going to have a number, because i have not checked recently. the u.s. does have a lot of gold. i am told its at fort knox. there's not enough of it to make a really meaningful difference, i am afraid. the u.s. and the world and effectively abandoned the gold standard. the amount of gold in the system no longer has much connection into-- i'm going to get economics jargon. i'm afraid gold is not the answer to many bodies problem. your first point on the credit system, there were some significant changes. a lot of them have not come into effect yet, like the consumer financial protection

bureau, which will make the most difference to people buying loans or credit cards. it's only just getting up to speed. i think changes have been made. being a cynical financial journalist, i think people have been trying to make finance changes for hundreds of years and it never seems to weork. host: moody's warned it could joined standard and poor's. how significant is that? guest: i have not seen the report. i would have to see the language they use to see how serious that is. it makes sense. the other ratings agencies have taken a different view of the political process. they have precisely the same concerns about the long-term fiscal situation of the u.s. host: 4 lauderdale, florida.

can morning. -- fort lauderdale, florida. but morning. -- good morning. caller: they downgraded their debt. and some point, we will have trouble paying off our debt? guest: i say both sides of the fiscal divide are seriously worried about the debt. it did not quite come for what s&p was looking for. washington is going to get it back together and try to tackle this. the outcome of that, they

looking at the- triple a criteria that should met. hos host: what other key markers are you looking for in the next couple of weeks? guest: in many ways, this is the biggest story in the u.s.. what is driving the global markets is spain and italy. we have to watch for, the ec being action -- european central

bank, stabilize the yields on italian and spanish debt. will current investors continue lending to those governments. host: robin harding, thanks so much for being here. coming up next, we will speak with jason right after this. ♪ ♪ >> i am not for changing the system, just so that we can feel good. they have about 97% in

australia. it does not mean very much in terms of democracy. some of the most ambitious dictators in the world get voter turnout of 95-99%, when they have elections. >> voting is a responsible act. i should not be coerced to make a decision, which is like and the debt -- death for many people. >> tomorrow on c-span, ralph nader, and a series of debates looking at controversial topics. monday, the pros and cons of mandatory voting. tuesday, professors from georgetown and the university of massachusetts on taxing, stock trades, derivatives. this is today and tuesday at 6:00 p.m. eastern on c-span.

>> the motion to concur the house amendment to senate bill 365 is agreed to. >> with the debt ceiling bill signed into law, watch the debate on the house and senate los bridgett floors, to say what they said. there is video of every session. the members return to follow more of the appropriations process. committee hearings on c-span .org/congress. host: jason mattera is editor of human events. thanks for being here this morning. guest: thanks for having me on. obama will have a midwest tour in the next week and a half.

somebody will ask what the bus should be named. and someone said downgrade one. this is the first president that has experienced a downgrade under his watch. he is clearly the one that is going to bear the biggest brunt, because he is the president of the united states. rightfully so. host: did any of them have their finger on the polls on how americans felt about this? guest: michele bachmann is the front-runner in iowa. she skyrocketed out of nowhere. it has been resonating with a lot of gop primary voters.

there were a lot of presidential candidates like mitt romney that came out against the budget deal that happened last week. he has been all over the place, not giving specific details, answering yes or no to many policy questions. there is banks within the gop primary. they're looking for a leader that will clearly demarcate a line in the sand, between those that want a government policy or a more free agenda. host: jason mattera hosts a radio show in new york and is editor of human events. he is the author of "obama zombies." looking at how the latest

approval ratings are coming out, but 41% of registered voters say they would have -- would like to see president obama rhee elected. re-elected.e guest: whoever the gop nominates, you would think they would walk right into the white house. people are worse off today than they were back in 2008. the gop needs to focus on the economy. how to get job reductions. we keep hearing about this compromise. we needed to get people back to work. the job report, 9.1% unemployment -- more people exited the job market than there

were jobs created. that has to be the number one priority. it is a call back to president reagan. which signs the you hear in your hometown? more hiring or out of business signed? host: you write about your generation and for the perspective of those in their 20s. what about republican candidates and how they are appealing to younger and more potential voters? guest: i think there is a huge vacuum and a big opportunity for someone to do would barack obama did in 2008. he was holding speeches on college campuses. he was organizing rallies with

dave matthews and the braun james, who were called choices at the time with kids. they are reaching out to young people, telling them how obama care is a torpedo. the mind-boggling debt will eventually be my kids generation that will have to pay that off. we are graduating from college now with the student loans and no ability to pay them off. young people in particular are more vocal about the obama administration. host: you're not hearing from anyone yet. guest: those people historically will not move and shake elections.

i do not think there is an appetite -- to spend resources on college campuses. ron awaken his big policy address on college campuses. -- ronald reagan gave his big policy addresses on college campuses. but it is about reaching the next generation about ideas of freedom. host: there is talk about the conservative tea party being responsible for this. what do you think? guest: the s&p did not blame the tea party but outlined what we already knew. when you have a one-year nation's credit card, you have problems on your hands.

we need to stop. -- going on vacations for having worked today. the tea party is why the trajectory is about what to cut, not what to add. we should be thanking the tea party for that. they did point to our entitlement crisis. clearly they will be insolvent, especially medicare. the s&p acknowledges this. many tea party members, but not

democrats. host: alexandria, virginia. good morning. caller: couple of comments. with the s&p downgrade, they will have to send other motivation when they make a $2 trillion mistake. i think the numbers speak for themselves. my question for your guest is, two numbers and ideas. i think it is 3% or 40% of the tax bill. of the past 10 or 15 years the

top 2% of earners. republicans may give a little bit in terms of revenue, whether it is deductions. maybe we can get a trillion and a half dollars in cuts. guest: he was on the republican line, but that is no republican. they're not calling for the expiration of the bush tax cut. after the tax cuts were accelerated in 2003, 4% growth. we have revenue increases for the federal government, every single year. unemployment was at 6.4%.

we saw it with ronald reagan and george w. bush. we have seen the failures of government spending. how much more should we be spending and should we confiscate from people to satisfy from one of your cat in the see the things he knows best how to run the country. -- bureaucrat in dc that thinks he knows best how to run the country. and -- in order to get a real structural reform, they need a senate in republican hands.

they have a single. in order to get a home run, they need it for the senate and the gop. host: democratic caller in new jersey. caller: i have always found in light to solve the problem, you have to identify the source of the problem. when we were the biggest lender nation in the world, rather than the biggest debtor nation. we were going at a nice flow. a long came a political pundit policymaker.

it works something like this. when republicans are in power, they will spend like drunken sailors rather than invest. they will cut taxes but only on our base. the haves and have more. the industrialists were taking that money and investing them in technology or equipment for most important, the engine of our economy labor. and they were gambling in our casinos, as we know them, the stock market. someone else came along and said government was the problem. it needed to be shrunk. but " what is needed to be shrunk as the engine of our economy. the working class. that is where demand comes from.

a perfect mobile laboratory that we have in south america, take a look at what has happened in chile. response fromt a our guest guest:. . guest: that caller was all over the map there. liberals are about government greed. when ronald reagan instituted the largest american tax cut in history, we saw for the next 25 years after that, our country grew by almost doubled.

we had the largest piece of jobs ever. it cut every single income bracket. the largest percentage cut, the lowest income bracket. they should keep more of their money. their money, they earned it. i will not get into greed and in view. host: we have until august 16 to see who these members will be on the committee. six from the house and six from the senate. six republicans, six democrats. who do you hope to see on that panel? the committee has until november 23 to make a recommendation.

who do you hope to see involved in that? will the democrats give on entitlement and other things? guest: taxes are not the problem at all. spending has been the problem. it has increased. barack obama racked up more deficit than george bush did in all eight years combined. spending as a ratio to gross domestic product has grown. it has been the biggest driver of a debt. that has to be on the table. it is hard to compromise with quality that has not offered any type of budget. was the president's budget unanimously rejected by the senate, it is the gop they have

put the best ideas on paper. democrats have allowed that to be used politically against them. i would like to see paul ryan, brian johnson, the representative from ohio. i want to see people address fiscal matters going forward. in order to get the economy moving, you have to get incentives. that could have the -- host: us go to another jason on

our independent line in las vegas, nevada. caller: i have lived in this country for a while. i do not know what you are talking about. you are saying, cut medicare. 51% of poor people to not pay taxes, so cut local bread and milk to pay taxes. you are still talking about millionaires, tax breaks. let me ask you a question. remember when they used to care about our country. now all we care about the guys that make you sign tax pledges. when you got in office and say

jobs, and not one republican has created a job since. you can smile at your bewildered look. host: we can exchange opinions here. let's get a response. guest: a lot of hate from that c-span caller. paul ryan outlined a plan to save it and a target of those that really need it. democrats have put no proposal on the table. donald trump and bill gates do not need medicare. we should target of those that

need it. this hatred for those that are the job creators in this society, it is sad to go about. in reality, when somebody is making money, they are investing that money back. with all of this government spending, -- it is capital that otherwise would be used to create jobs. host: let us look at this story from abc news. alabama pushed the program to an all-time high.

here are the numbers. some 45.8 million people collected food stamps in may. one person in this article, someone that can speak for the region says, people are selling to make a mortgage payment. food stamps are on the rise. they do not feel embarrassed. guest: it is unfortunate. we are in dire economic circumstances right now. barack obama spent more in three years than george w. bishop did in all eight -- bush did in all eight years. what the democrats want to continue to do is spend more.

it does not help grow the economy or get people back to work. more revenue for the treasury. that was at 14,000. we have to go to the model that works. host: maine, next up. caller: i wanted to ask you if a republican presidential candidate on the right or any that may be serving on this super committing? have the democrats put the crown jewels like social security, medicare, medicaid on the table for reform or have the

republican party in put deep, lasting fundamental cuts into the defense budget on the table? we are spending 700 billion to a trillion dollars a year in a 3.5 undeclared wars, 140 countries, where germany and japan, taking care of a country that has 10 times the gdp. the republicans, just like the democrats do not seem to want to let go of their favorite spending programs. isn't it time to be realistic about entitlements? guest: we have to be careful about cutting defense now.

are there places that can be cut? congress should be looking at that anyway. you do not need a super committee. defense is not the driver of our debt but medicare and social security. it shows you the democratic priority. so security and medicare are insolvent. they are failures. we have to be careful in how we go about it. we have a lot of people threatening with political affiliations. host: one person saying this.

guest: the deal that was voted on, more democrats opposed it than republicans. what is absurd is that -- they wanted to hold the line on government spending and tax increases. we are supposed to come to the bargaining table where the vice- president is calling people across the country terrorists? it is absurd. host: here is a response. guest: that government stimulus worked really well, didn't it?

you have to wonder at what point would satisfy these individuals, no one more government spending is not going to do the job. they propose even more infrastructure spending. barack obama came into office talking about jobs. the puck is going to stop with him. he is the president. people are going to hold him accountable. not one member of congress. host: kansas city, missouri. caller: you talked about the two-party. it is basically a movement of malignant ignorance fueled by racial hatred. it is protecting the wealthy. i do not want to be condescending here. from 2001-2007, roughly 68% of

the nation's income growth went to the top 1%. our economy is based upon -- 7% is consumer spending. all of the income of the nation's, the growth in income, the top 1%, the bottom 99% still has the money to spend. we have a demand problem. you are trying to fix it with a supply side effects. you are doing the opposite of what needs to be done. guest: we talk about supply-side economics, which is letting people keep more of their money. they can invest in their companies, take more vacations, buy products.

if you are paying taxes, i think you are paying too much. if we do not have that, it will affect our economic liberty and purchasing power. host: we have an image showing the breakdown on the voting for the debt ceiling bill. you say, you do support this. taxation one of the bargaining chips here. guest: there is nothing republicans can do until they control to the province. -- host: thank you for coming in

this morning. we will start our week-long series looking at the american workforce. we will stop -- we will first talk with robin wright and her new brother -- book. >> more reaction to the economy this morning from representative barney frank. he is a ranking democrat on the house financial services committee. he says the biggest reason the united states is seen its credit downgrade it is it has seen it being the military -- monetary policing of the world. richard reigning in the defense spending will be my mantra for the next few months. an update on troops in afghanistan. four of its service members of nato has been killed in two

separate attacks. 38 people were killed including 30 american troops. 22 were navy seals. the probe continues at the site of the crash. international military forces are working to recover every last piece of that helicopter. the troops have secured the crash site and nobody is allowed in or out of the area while the investigation is ongoing. those are the latest headlines from c-span radio. >> i am not for changing the system, just so we can feel good by having voter turnout, which may lead it to what they have in austria, which is 97%. it does not mean much in terms of the help of the democracy. some of the most vicious dictators in the world did voter turnout around 97%.

>> voting is irresponsible act. i should not be coerced to -- is a very responsive will act. -- responsible act. i should not be coerced into voting. >> monday, the pros and cons of mandatory voting. tuesday, professors from georgetown and the university of massachusetts on texting, stock trades, derivatives, and currency. debating the controversy, monday and tuesday on c-span at 6:00 p.m. eastern. >> the motion to concur with the house amendment of the senate bill 365 is agreed to. >> with the debt bill assigned into law, watch -- signed into

law, watched video from the floor to see how you're represented folded. your representative voted. "washington journal" continues. host: robin wright is our guest and author of this book. here is the latest from the wall street journal. call volatile is this situation, and where is this going? guest: it is a turning point for syria. they have not moved as powerfully as they could against the demonstrators. they may not take it anymore.

ramadan is beginning with the month of fasting. the evening events might be a means of getting more people out in the street. they want to preempt that by striking on several cities. they ended up killing 20,000 people in hamas in 1982. now it is plain out again as well. the most striking protest is in syria, where people have had tremendous resilience. i was in beirut for five years. i remember the devastating stories coming out of hamas. host: does it feel like history

is repeating itself? it is something different that is happening. guest: there are parallels to what is happening. we are afraid the city is becoming too islamic then syrian. the majority of the populations are under the age of 30. that can communicate with each other. there are factors contributing to this uprising. even if the tactics are the same. host: we have been watching this series of historical events. our wheat in the summer of that?

how is this developing and evolving? guest: i do not believe in the term of erebus spring. -- arab spring. there was a damascus spring. it is catchy to go from the spring to the hot summer and then winter. it does not really apply. it did not play out as it did in egypt. it is unfair to use that terminology. host: in your book, you write about the influence of technology and the access that people are starting to have come of being a catalyst for change.

your perceiving has shifted away from someone that might be a martyr or taking an arm to someone who could have a productive life where technology has made that possible. guest: it will continue to recruit people, american interest, and america itself. we look at those in tunisia and asia and syria, yemen, libya. and other places too. host: you write this in your book. you go through some of the experiences that you watched. the climax but not the end.

guest: this is only the beginning of the beginning. when you look at the soviet union, you still have a former communist and kgb chief in power, 20 years later. because relief has been repressed, there has been an opportunity for alternative political parties. it is harder for us to understand. host: a house striking or not striking is this image for you and people of the image? guest: an extraordinary picture.

it invoked such a reaction with people in the middle east. a head of state, and ally of the west for many years, to see any sense of accountability for corruption is quite striking. i did not think they would come where they sit behind this pen and be judged for their corruption, political crimes or repress people when it out -- uprising began. the question will be will the trial be stalled? host: she has reported over hundreds of countries.

the sunday times of london, the christian science monitor. she has hosted several other magazines. is there a counter jihad across the middle east? guest: it has many components. it is the rejection of some that have been in power for decades. they are trying to create their own political dynasty. those who are religious, those that are using violence. for the first time, people are taking the initiative. they are being proactive in trying to push the government and instill what kind of values communities may want after the end of their leaders. it is quite inspiring. it extends beyond the uprisings

on the street. host: independent line, boca raton, florida. caller: i am old enough to remember the massive takeover, the supposedly nationalist movements, the various sundry ,roblems and black september muslim brotherhood members in syria. the iran and iraq war. i think 1 million casualties there. i am at a point where i think it is complete naivete that people with no experience with democracy, you can have

elections, but every pendent i have listened to lately will probably take over in egypt. and they will probably end up with another power. when will the west wake up and realize that these movements, aborted from their birth. they will most likely find themselves under the form -- some of another dictator. -- under the thumb of another dictator. guest: than have someone to rally around, but not an alternative to the current regime.

enormous fear in the west and the united states. muslim brotherhood has never been able to capture more than 25%. the movement itself united when it was in opposition to mubarak. some say we do not like the way you pick your leaders. they are unhappy about the brotherhood manifesto. it denies christians from becoming president. their manifesto is 20th-century. host: our guest is robin wright.

call in. the numbers to our guest just mentioned the youth movement. there are some many young people right now. the numbers are high. you write about the influence of comedy. who is producing the cultural content that is exciting people? is it coming from specific countries in the middle east or outside? guest: there were developed mainly in the west, but they are emerging. rath has become the rhythm -- rap has become the rhythm of

resistance. many young rappers are writing songs that are challenging regimes in a way that politicians for years would not have dreamed. an uprising began in a remote to nation village. there was a rap on challenging the president to come out and work because they cannot find jobs and were living in poverty. it was in that context that a young street vendor set himself on fire. that is why culture change is important. 9 pennsylvania, democrats

line. caller: they have less unemployment than any country of their. there is no poverty. i see all of this and the outreach going on. all of these countries are getting together and are starting to take over. they are appointing who they want to be in charge. guest: there are some important ones in africa. the bulk of the middle east begins where you have lebanon,

syria, and jordan, and the gulf states. those will be harder to witness change, particularly in the gulf. host: can you address the living conditions of those dimensions? guest: these are people who put their lives on the line. they often jeopardize losing their jobs or income. in libya, because it is such a small population, there is a sense of a future ones gaddafi moves on. there are countries like egypt, tourism has dropped off in

terrible numbers. one person cannot feed his family any more. he had to feed his camel to his family. there is a real desperation in terms of the situation. a high unemployment problem. just because a few countries live well, there is a perception that all of them do. that is not true. host: she has covered many events from abroad, including latin america, asia, africa. there is a rebellion across the islamic world. she also discusses power, politics, u.s. policy. republican line.

caller: the morning. thank you for taking my call. i have two small questions. do you think our president and the islamic world drives people to become part of a movement? i learned about some of this from a book. the revolution manifesto by ron paul. the main reason we are having issues -- is that true? is he a good presidential candidate? host: what is the main problem? caller: is it our presence over there? ron paul said the motivation is occupying the land.

guest: i do not think the united states has any intention of occupying land. it has a plan tentatively laid out. will they have an increased presence? it may find some basis closed by -- close by -- it is a very good question about the u.s. presence in the region and what it means for protest activists. one part of the uprising is, they want to be the ones to determine their future and define their goals. foreign powers are perceived as one must occupy and but more

trying to muscle in with their solutions, how the economy should work. once the u.s. pulls out, the domestic issues will become ever stronger. we must challenge our leadership. put in place and accountable government that has democratically elected more than one time. host: here is what one person rights. -- writes. how did they get so out of touch? guest: it is almost caught in the way in the case of egypt. they could not provide

solutions to the obvious questions of life. but it gives people the sense that they are part of the solution. this will be an issue for a long time. the bottom line is the rejecting violence as a primary tool to bring about change. when the u.s. forced its way into iraq, there is a lot of resistance and resistant -- resentment in the arab world. host: there is concern that more young men would join al qaeda and get motivated that way. what makes the difference between choosing that path and choosing to become someone

involved in such a different course? being part of one of the rebellions here, fighting for democracy,, at a lesser threat to the rest of the world? what makes that trajectory change? guest: at the end of the day, that people are tired of violence. they have paid the greatest price in human life. they see violence is not the way, the alternative. this is the beginning of a process that will play out over the next decade. we must not assume that anything is going to happen very quickly. what is key is not just the

election. the pivotal process will be writing the constitution. whether you write a new one first or have elections, many fear that if you have an election first, other emerging islamic parties may be the ones that have the greatest influence in writing a constitution. this is a point of contention in the region. that is the pivotal defining step that will really determine the future. iran is a technocratic revolution back in the years. the religious company came back and said we believe we should deal with the turmoil and mediate among the actions. in the end, the advisory role

has become a prominent political role and the most powerful in the country. layout in the riding of the constitution. the next year, as they come to grips with all of the issues, we may see interesting manifestations, whether it is on the street or in cultural all was. it is a defining moment. host: harvey, democrats lyme, conn. -- democrats line, connecticut. host: we met in johannesburg briefly at a party. back in the middle east. you cannot talk about the middle east without mentioning israel. i do not think it has come up

yet. what role if any does israel have in the current middle east unrest? host: we have not talked about that yet. thanks for asking. guest: the most volatile region in the world has witnessed the civil disobedience. israel has not become an issue. parties and having developed platforms -- they will have to address what their positions are on the arab conflict and israel itself. if you have a split between protesters and the military -- they were acting as one in pushing president mubarak out of power. this is the time to be seen

pushing forward the peace process. israel, and its role and survival in the u.s. -- it is an important point. host: massive economic protest staged in islamic cities. thousands of people gathered in the streets. more than a quarter of a million israelis were in the street saturday to protest rising living host: what do you make of this? could this be a shift to the left? how do you perceive this as having a larger political implications? guest: one of the fascinating things is that israelis are adopting the tactics of the

arabs. they are acting on the streets. maybe we will get something out of this on the domestic front as well. host: randy, republican, syracuse. hello there. caller: it is an honor to talk to you. you are one of the most perspicacious individuals i have seen talking about foreign affairs. my question is, what is our vital national interest in that region? i am confused, to be honest. i think that it is murkier and our goals are even murkier.

host: before you hang up, can i ask you what you think the goal should be? caller: mostly with our serious economic woes, especially today, i do not think we should be doing them. guest: well, libya is an unusual case. 6.5 million people and a lot of oil. this is a country that could get back to normal and do very well, fairly quickly. the council has been dealing with the different tribes and deftness it -- and ethnicities. they are trying to be inclusive but in a lot of their own problems. this is one where the united states had to make a tough choice. it looks like gaddafi's troops are going to move into the second-largest city.

on the border along the mediterranean. so, the international community, even the arab world, they all have resolutions saying that they believe this is a gross violation of human rights and there is justification for invoking article 7 of the un charter. nato has taken the lead. the united states played an important role in the beginning. muammar gaddafi has lasted far longer than anyone envisioned. i suspect that there will be a confirmation in his status by the end of the year. he has brought in mercenaries in has vast resources in other countries as well. so, he can hang on for a while, but it is not clear that he can

survive politically. host: this question from twitter -- host: what is his incentive to leave? guest: no one has heard anyone from the former president of saudi arabia. can gaddafi stay inside of libya? or will he try to manipulate the political situation and put himself back in power? he knows that there are longstanding tensions with saudi arabia and other places that might be used to take him in. host: the new york -- "the new york times" book review of your last book --

host: were you a counter to the greater wave of thinking about what to expect of this budding culture of change in the region bel? -- region? guest: there are obvious questions to ask and i do not think the united states government is asking them enough. people change their roots before they go from home to the office. it is hard for government to get a full grasp on this kind of transformation that began years ago.

looking at the various players in the uprisings, downgrading some of the characters in the book with 10,000 today, or whatever. trying to cover both subjects in the uprisings, as well as the broader movement behind the change. host: you share personal stories as well. how important was it to you to have those personal stories as a part of the narrative about what is happening? guest: it is important in creating a sense of who these people are and why they are getting involved. there are not a lot of public polls in these countries. the best thing to do is to see the widest varieties of people that you can meet. some of these stories are so

remarkable, i wanted to be able to offer proof and show stories of why people are engaged right now. at the age of eight, a girl was told to put on a party dress, that she was going to a celebration. she was taken to be circumcised. she's -- she was so angry, she began to campaign against what happened to her, her sister, her cousins. she had a long conversation with her uncle and said that if you do this, i will cut off my finger. he said that what a factor for the rest of her life. she said duh. she decided that if she could do something for one person's family, it could be expanded. she organized the first arab

world human-rights film festival. she found out about a comic book about the journey of martin luther king in montgomery, alabama. she translated the whole thing to explain civil disobedience. in the back there are a list of civil disobedience actions that protesters can take. this has been emerging for a long time. she did all of this between the ages of 8 and 28. there are people and forces that are not often factored in when we try to figure out what comes next. there are a lot of cultural forces out there that say they do not accept the military in power. they will push through uprisings and phases before they get to what they want. host: jackson, tennessee.

bill. welcome. caller: i would like to commend mr. robin for her work. -- miss robin for her work. as we look at scriptures, you know, people believe that we have a profit called zechariah. also another profit called azel. most religions believe in the holy word of god. it gives clarity as to what is going on in the middle east today. i would invite miss robbins and other people that listen to take a look at the scripture as to what the word of god says. with that 30 more seconds, i have a quick recap. chapter five, the book of

zacharias, wickedness has been allowed to cover the earth. he sees two women looking at the container for the wickedness planted in the land of old babylon, modern day iraq. as you go into -- host: what is the point of that to you? caller: two women that lifted , a land of wickedness, which was old babylon. host: are you saying that there is wickedness there? i do not understand. caller: they took the container and lifted it up between heaven and earth as a resemblance of them.

the question is, two women lifting this up, with strength in iraq as a base. but the question is -- host: i think we are repeating ourselves. do you have a comment? guest: ee. i am not a great reader of the scriptures. in terms of religion, but we are seeing right now is quite different. there was an attempt amongst the extremists to go back to the seventh century. today, people are trying to go for words, rather than back words, courtesy of globalization. islam is not an end goal, it is a means to an end. yes, it is reflective in the number of women using scarf had covered in places like egypt, but many of them are not

referring back to the muslim brotherhood. they do feel they are claiming a identity. i lived in south africa for many years during the anti-apartheid movement. desmond tutu served as one of the leading voices. wherever you look, during these big transitions, people often do not have leaders or ideology, so they look to value in terms of faith. we have to be very careful about differentiating between the two. we have to be careful in terms of gross misrepresentations. host: you noted that new societies and new governments are more likely to be more democratic and more islamic. but we might equate a religious

state as being sure real law -- sharia law. how do westerners understand that better? how does that relationship change? guest: americans need to be educated on islam as much as muslims need to be educated about the west. we are more afraid of islam today than we were in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. it is really important to get a sense of the types of change, the message of change coming across in virtually every arab country. host: st. louis, bill, are you with us? caller: thank you for taking my call.

i have been studying islam since 9/11. i was formerly a citizen of new york and was obliged to learn more about it. i was also a citizen of london. from my reading i am finding that the islamic apostates have very little hope. it is like allowing a religion to survive because we do not want to touch the issue. i think that the problem is that we are tolerating the intolerable. it is not a tolerant religion. muhammed was a tyrant. we need to face that reality.

guest: i am surprised he is making that comparison. we kind of look at it, as americans, as a practice from the seventh century. they would lay into the windows of the people that were defeated so that they could be taking care of. in pre-islamic times, there was not a proper tell. in every religious volume, you can find those things that are inspiring and those things that are a little bit hard to take. there is a passage in the koran that says it -- if they move toward peace, you should also move toward peace. it is a very definitive and important line.

women activists today are now using the koran to go back and try to study and you wear these traditions came from -- restudy where these traditions came from. reflecting the political interests at the time, saying that this is the profit mohammed. in the koran there are some positive statements. if you take the automatic translation of many of the words, you find that they could apply to men or women. many women activists are trying to work within the women's rights movement. asking about who the people of power are, the two engines of change in fault demographics. literacy in these countries

exceeds 50%. they can read, right, go on the internet, get a sense of the future, demanding their own rights, totally separate from the types of demonstrations we have seen on political issues. very inspiring. and host: the title of your book, why did you call it back? why -- college that? why did you think that that was appropriate? guest: one of my colleagues came up with that when we were looking for a phrase that would describe the political and cultural sides of what is going on. that is a great song from 1982 that seemed to contain it all. a couple of young people have come up to me and asked, what is a casbah? it does capture the epic

convulsion across the region. host: robin wright, thank you so much for joining us this morning. guest: thank you. host: next, more on our weeklong series looking at the american workforce and jobs. first, c-span radio. >> stock futures are down, along with asian and european stocks. this after last week's decision to downgrade credit ratings for the first time. prices for government that have gone up. the price of gold has topped $1,700 for the first time. turning to a humanitarian crisis in africa, joe biden -- jill biden has arrived in kenya. she is accompanied by the u.s. administrator for the agency of international development.

they will meet with the prime minister to talk about ways of responding to the famine. more than 12 million people across the horn of africa are in urgent need of food aid. a new system is going to be allowed -- announced that will allow states to get school test waivers. no child left behind has been criticized for unrealistic benchmarks, even as they make progress. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> i will not force the system just so that we can feel good an approximate what they have in australia. the fact is that voter turnout does not mean much in terms of a voter democracy. some of the most vicious dictator is in the world had a turnout of 95% when they held

elections. >> voting is one of the responsible acts. i should not be forced to make a decision that is life and death for many people. >> today and tomorrow, ralph nader and the center for responsive law hosts a series of debates on controversial topics. the pros and cons of mandatory voting, monday. tuesday, professors from georgetown and the university of massachusetts, debating the controversial today and tuesday at 6:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> ayes 74, nays 26. the motion to concur is agreed to. let's watch the debate from the house and senate floors.

see what your elected officials said and how they finally voted. there is video of every session and complete voting records. follow daily floor action in committee hearings. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are starting a weeklong series the day looking at jobs in america. here's a look at the schedule for the rest of the week. tomorrow, technical education and the work force. thursday, a key federal jobs programs will round out the week on friday, looking at women in the work force. looking at the department of labor's employment and training administration, we are joined now by jane oates. let's go through the various

programs at the department of labour. guest: it comes down to the work force investment act. career centers that are overseen by local work force investment programs. we do everything that someone needs, when they are looking to relocate to a new job. and resonate -- resume building, competitive training, sending them into combat -- training programs. host: there is an adult training. there is apprenticeships. how does a the apprenticeship program work? guest: right now we have one quarter of a million people in those programs across the country. your viewers might think about the concept of international and

national apprenticeship. people going into those jobs earn money while they are learning. that is why it is such an important program. so, literally, you think of going into the building trade as going from a beginning worker into a journeyman. a wonderful way to get people connected immediately with employers. host: other groups that can get assistance, dislocated workers and, because of the native american, job corps is another one. seniors, trading programs, and veterans. we will get more into that later on. how did someone say that that

applies to me? how do they get help? guest: i am sure that some of the callers will think it is very particular. think about our program for seniors. those are low income seniors. competing with a 35-year-old, they might not get the same attention. this is the specific training that they need, with the respect that they risk -- deserved. frankly, low-income seniors on fixed income are having a hard time. you bring up the job corps. there are 120 across the country for young people. 16-24. disadvantaged youth. they may have dropped out from school. giving them the occupational training that they need.

a segue here, very glad that they were going after young vets. we were seeing a lot of young people going into the military, because obviously deployment in iraq and afghanistan, they come back and have military skills with discipline, but have not been able to parlay that into a job. this year, so far, we have enrolled 300 job corps kids with a place to live, getting themselves together with technical skills. host: here are the numbers to call if you would like to join this conversation. 202-64-11114 eastern time zones. mountain, pacific, 202-64-1115. -- 202-624-1115. if you have joined one of these

workforce programs, 202-624- 0760. the president is, as he is saying, pivoting towards jobs. he is planning to hit the road in the next couple of weeks to boost jobs and employment. we saw him speak on this on friday. how important was that? guest: it was great. i need to tell you, first, the president has been focused on jobs from the beginning. other things seem to take immediate attention, but the white house has been working with me and the secretary nonstop. friday the president took on what we were going to do with veterans as we decrease the number of deployed military.

i thought that his ideas were spectacular. who better to fill in an apprenticeship that a veteran? one of the standard ways to get people in, subdividing their employment, that is what he hopes congress will work on. particularly he is focused on veterans. we all need to focus on what we do with someone who comes back in a different shape from when they left. they have really made this an issue. if there are any health-care employers out there, i hope that they say they will get involved in this. where better with a wounded veteran be welcome than the health-care industry? host: you mentioned returning heroes and wounded warrior tax credits.

the president also called for a career-ready military to get people ready for going into the private sector and focusing on that transition when they come back. what is in place right now, for veterans? guest: talking about the work force to investment act, they have a priority service for veterans. they get the service that they should. we hope that veterans who are listening have taken advantage of that. there are many employees who are very anxious to be hired. they are committed to the mission. through every other mechanism possible, in the board of education, which you are going to speak to this week, they have the opportunities. i hope that it is, as i do not

want to sell short women. people that forget they are veterans as well. we are going to have a dedicated person to help you to figure out how to use your post-9/11 the gi bill as -- to the maximum possible. host: good morning, scott. caller: how are you doing? host: good, thanks. caller: i lost my job in 2008. it was due to buy company moving jobs to another country. so, i was available for the training. i was never that good in school, but no one wanted to try that with me, so i decided that

i would try to go to that school. i had already done all of the paper work. the only problems that i had were -- you had only a few selections of what you could do. they wanted you to do a full year of credits. i did not even know a computer at the time. much of that stuff is done on computer now. unfortunately, it did not work for me. i well that try to go to attempt service. i lost my unemployment benefits. it really was a bad experience. i am still unemployed. guest: i am sorry to hear that. if you lost a job because your

company left, i hope that you took advantage of the trade adjustment assistance act program. a very generous program to get people, not only the training that they need, but pre- training. and there are so many workers in the situation that you are in, they cannot go right into college or any post-secondary programs without that preliminary practice on that computer. i am very sorry to hear that. in terms of what we are trying to do with selection, our money is always so scarce. we are using it very carefully. therefore we are giving people instructions only for four jobs -- only for jobs in demand in your area. every job is requiring more

technical and academic skill. computers really play into that. i would suggest that to go into your local one-stop and ask them if you can spend some time on the computers, if an opportunity comes up you have the computer expertise to take advantage of it. host: scott joins us from boca raton, florida. good morning, scott. caller: i take the opposite the sit -- position from the man that just called. i m a concrete contractor. it has been very slow in the construction business. it has been hard to keep up with the insurance when you have no work coming in. now what we have a telephone

number. i would not going -- would not mind going back to work in the field. i am in good enough shape to where i can still perform in the field. my problem is that, being in the construction business for 30 years, many people keep saying i need to get into something else, something else, but it is hard to start at the bottom of the latter after doing something for 30 years. is there any advice you could give to someone like me? guest: first of all, do not lose hope. many people that i talk to get so tired of not getting interviews, not getting jobs, they just give up. by the way, 46 sounds really young to me. i think that you have at least 30 years of good work left in you.

and one, we have some web-based tools so that you can work buys it code -- work by zip code. look at your skills and see where they might be transferable. the construction industry took such a hit in this recession, it is taking abnormally long to get that back to where it was in 2007. there may be other jobs that utilize those skills. if you go to myskillsmyfuture.com, or our website, we will give you a link as well. we are starting to work with some companies that said they could not find workers. one that i am aware of right now is waste management's.

we were fortunate enough last week to place 46 drivers on site. people that were long term unemployed and veterans. make sure that you are looking at that tool. that company made a statement in a paper that would go unnamed that they could not find people. i told them i would find the people. they have been very good to work with. the other suggestion i would tell you is to take some courses, if you can get them, through your one-stop or local college. putting yourself out there, starting your own business. lots of people trying to figure out how they can become a legal handyman. host: the assistant secretary of employment and training, here

are the phone numbers to call for the department of labour, employment, and training administration. 1-877-us2-jobs. you can also see those numbers on our screen. let's talk about those work force investment acts. providing training and services for dislocated workers and low- income youth, sacked even as unemployment has skyrocketed. a brief surge from the stimulus is already over. where does it stand? how is it working out right now? guest: i was fortunate enough to be part of the team that started this legislation.

sadly, it has not materialized since 1998. it was a full employment economy. literally, employers were begging qualified people and on qualified people for jobs. fast forward, it is a different world. in the senate, led by senator murray, it really looked like they were serious about getting that bill authorized again this year. the bill in 1998 did not mention things like regional economy. it did not talk about career path. things that are important for workers to day. everyone would always say -- give us more money. the department of labour was trying to make sure that labor was in every dime of taxpayer

money. the recovery act that people sometimes scratch their heads about, the reason we did not see the job loss in 2009 and 2010, state stabilization funds allowed them to keep people online. we are starting to see significant numbers of public employees added to the job last. and host: you can see a burst of due to the stimulus money. $3.6 million back in 2000, it was definitely more above this $5 billion range. guest: we are continuing to talk to other programs outside, like transportation and usda, to figure out how we can do more with less funding.

host: we have another caller on the line. someone with experience in the job program. caller: these jobs programs are not bad. they help you to educate yourself. learning some computer, legal, things of that not -- nature. what i am finding it is, as one who has exhausted my benefits, and a lot of the same things. they want to teach you how to dress. they want to help you revise your resume. in reality, that is not the problem. it is the jobs out there. getting an interview and callbacks seems to be the problem. another thing that i want to put in here, this aspect of how many

people are working, how many are not working, at the moment things are pretty slow. many people exhausted their benefits. they are not looking at how many jobs are out there. they are looking at a system that is not working anymore. just giving up on the system. some 200,000 people every month, you hear the government laying people off, yet the economy seems not to be doing that with a job loss of 1%. it is more like 13 and 14. if you take these people that have exhausted their benefits, putting them back in the equation, in the big picture we

are talking about something that they are not paying attention to. that is a real problem. host: what do you think about those numbers and his personal experience? guest: thank you for sharing. the numbers that we are giving out, we need to be clear, the model is done just on people who are on unemployment insurance. we know that there are 9 million additional people working part time, they would like to be working full time. you need to know that at the labor department, we are very concerned about all of those people. again, it is what you are saying to me today. it is true everywhere. we need to think of different strategies. i would suggest that you say --

looked, but else can i do differently? sometimes it is rearranging your resonate. -- resume. focusing on those things that would be attractive to a different employer in a different sector. one of the realizations of the long-term unemployed is that they may have to change sectors, in addition to changing jobs. while we would very -- i would not say happy, but we do report with interest that we have been able to create 2.5 million private sector jobs since 2009. but since 2007 that means we have 5 million jobs that were lost. not having enough jobs is where we have to go. we have to save employers who are sitting on lots of cash

right now. that is probably what you will hear the president focusing on. the government cannot create jobs without growing government. how do we work with private sector employers in florida to actually add jobs? host: if you have any experiences working in these job training programs, you can call us at 202-624-0760. our guest, jane oates, is with that the department of labour. this message from twitter -- host: what do you think about that? guest: i had not heard people

talking about lowering it. i think that there could be complications in states about state minimum wages. a number of states are higher, something that has always been encouraged. i think that the reality is, as people look to the end of those benefits, uri usually gives people less than one-third of what they actually need. if they can take a job, you never want to pay someone a minimum wage job. a job that is less than what it was before, it gives you access to a network of people that could get you to a better job. giving you a live feed on your resonate. i would never say that anything is the right option in a blanket

format. for some people who are looking at blanket opportunities, taking a job that is not where you want to be forever, just like other things, going out to volunteer gives you access to people that can act as coaches for you. it can act as new people to be references for your next job opportunity. certainly it can be a place where you learn new skills. the worse thing is to stay in your house and feel sorry for yourself. i mean that with the greatest respect, we all need to have a sense of urgency. we know that there are at least five people for every job opening. you have got to do everything you can to be the most attractive possible candidate. host: judy is on our eastern

line. hello, judy. caller: i am so glad that you brought up minimum wage. people do not talk about small business people that higher 4, 6, 10 people. minimum wage is all that i can afford. straight out of school, they really do not know what they are doing. they are still in a training program. you have to forgo that $7.25 per hour to train them. they cannot build up a clientele for at least a year. this does not account for what they used in utilities. the government does not account for what they make in gratuity, and they should. i am still paying the minimum wage in the apprentice program.

which is fine. eventually they can start charging for the service they are doing. the fund can make some money doing that. after the program is done, they leave you with that the clientele that you had filled up. you have to start all over again. there are small businesses that can only pay that minimum wage. there are certain businesses where you can make the commission and you, as a person, have the right to make which want. people do not consider things like that. small, locally owned grocery stores could not afford to pay the big money. host: how is business for do right now? caller: it is crucifying us.

guest: many of us work for minimum wage in our early jobs. i think that there is nothing about working for minimum wage that is not filled with the dignity of every kind of job. it was much cheaper to live. many can remember 30 cents on the dime. i think that in a job like yours, where you have that ability to have your own share in a beauty salon, it is much more attractive. four other people the problem is that they are not up to the full-time minimum-wage. so, workers are release struggling with minimum wage jobs that have 10 hours, 15 hours per week.

so, they will parlay four or five different part-time jobs. most people or children are trying to balance family responsibilities. our hope is that bigger employers, some smaller employers, that they can give them the opportunity to make more and will start doing that so that people do not have to work several part-time jobs. from a small business perspective, i know that most of the business owners out there would love to not have to worry about who's going to leave them next monday. host: professional business services, health care, retail trade, manufacturing, leisure, construction, how is the trading broken down for those

professions? guest: it is really done locally. we ask them to look not only at the wonderful projections, but to talk to local employers in their area. a story like manufacturing, the general public thinks that manufacturing is dead in the united states. you could not be more wrong. the president's immediate response to the automobile collapse major that that industry remained vibrant. looking over the course of the recovery, people should not think that manufacturing is gone. this country built its economy on manufacturing. unlike any other sector, it creates wealth. manufacturing is an industry that we will stick with. clearly, we will not be working with socks and underwear

anymore. we will be working in biotech manufacturing and the like. but those are unbelievably well paying jobs. the jobs created there are really good jobs. anyone looking, as a young person, or a young person willing to do anything in the industry, they need to look at the variety of jobs across the united states. i would have to tell the third industry, energy, utility companies are terrific employers. most of them actually believe in a career ladder. they do almost all of their hiring from within. not unusual across this country to see a gas or electric ceo that started as a lineman. a place that people forget to look.

host: this piece from "time," is e the jobs are. they say that one of the reasons unemployment has remained high is the mismatch between workers and jobs. in health care the ratio is two- one, where as it -- in construction is more like 12-1. you can see this in other service areas as well. guest: the crop -- the caller that said that the problem is jobs, that is where we start. our first priority is to get the private sector to create more jobs so that they can go about the business of creating jobs. when they did that visual, i am not sure that i would agree with

them. it feels like the federal government is committed to downsizing in every place possible. my own department has 300 fewer employees than we did in 2005. those kinds of numbers, the ones that you will see now, there is a graying of government, present company included, who have done 25, 30, 40 years of service. they will be retiring. will we be back? >> the twitter -- twitter has -- host: twitter has this message -- host: al, good morning. caller: i work with a variety of community colleges around the

country. i have seen many displaced workers in classes. ages of 40 and 50. i can on this one see that if you get through those programs, the opportunity for employment, actually, is very good. like he said, and i would particularly encourage young people in high school to consider community colleges and technical education programs. look at where the jobs are in your community and you need to stay canning -- kinney what you are on the work force.

-- canny wet -- when you are on the work force. guest: in terms of getting a two-year or a four-year degree, every dollar that we gave out from 2009 through to the future will carry with it a pathway to a degree. this administration could not have had a better cheerleader than dr. jill biden. no moment goes past when she does not mention community college filling that need. congress was kind, giving us $2 billion for four years in competitive grants. specifically retrain workers in specific areas.

this grant is very different. it requires that the local community college, they have workers that her wrong? and, hopefully, once this capacity is bill, we will find employers pitching in with a need to provide dollars for failing in some industries with emerging industries, we are barely hopeful -- another person

saying that they thought they had a job training program in the public schools. someone else rise -- -- writes -- guest: my gosh. hard to believe that in this country there is someone who was a licensed nurse and that cannot find a job please, with your certification and license in nursing, please go back to find out where we can get to place. host: tim, vancouver, washington. caller: thank you for c-span. when i came back from iraq, i to get myi bill

bachelor's degree. the reality is that people do not want to hire veterans. the idaho department of correction -- corrections asked me to resign because i was having problems with shellshocked. even though i got that stuff squared away, i get no help from the eeo. they said that too much time had taken before i could claim. you know that it will take a lot of administrative time. the situation forced me out of my career in the military. i get a lot of e-mails that are absolutely useless. you are talking about the energy thing. there was a good idea a couple of years ago about getting our vehicles on industrial gas. that could have told us away

from middle eastern oil. it would have sent a lot of people back to work. anyways, thank you for c-span. guest: thank you for your service, first of all. i am certainly sorry that eeo did not help you with your complaint against the idaho department of prisons. i would tell you to please go to the one-stop center. there we have what i will call, and i cannot give them names because i always forget the lever -- letters, but disabled veterans that are there and one stop health people that may have residual problems. weavers come back from service without any challenging positions. please, go talk to them directly. i am sorryt