efforts to prevent homegrown terrorism. later, georgetown university professor angela stent looks back at the construction of the berlin wall and the cultural, geopolitical, and economic impact of a divided germany. "washington journal" is next. >> with 16,892 iowans voting, the winner is michelle bachmann. [applause] >> all of the greatness, all of the energy, all that we need to do to take the country back in 2012 his right here in this room in ames, iowa. we will do it together. and take it back. ♪ caller: hhost: rep michelle bacn

who entered the race two months ago one an hour early yesterday over ron paul in this trouble. she is appeared also in the morning programs. her witness, the same weekend as governor rick perry enters the presidential race, announcing in south carolina and tomorrow, the president heads to in the midwest with campaign stops in iowa, illinois, and minnesota to talk about jobs and the economy. it is a week and a presidential politics and we want to hear from you. tell us what you think about the ames straw poll and rick perry entering the race. the numbers are on your screen. let's look at the results percentage-wise and the numbers. more than 16,000 people

participated in the straw poll and the winner is michelle bachmann, getting about 28.5% of the vote which is about 4800 straw poll votes. coming in second is ron paul with 4600 boats and tim pawlenti came in third and 13.5% of the ames straw poll. rick santorum got under 10% of the above with about 1600. herman cain had about 1400 votes and rick perry as a write-in got 1718 votes. another name on the ballot is former governor mitt romney. former house speaker newt gingrich got 385 boats and jon huntsman got 65 votes. here are some of the headlines from the "start tribune."

rick perry is the latest entry into the gop race. >> we will be free in our families and small businesses and states from the burden and cost of federal government so that those groups can create an innovate and succeed. i believe in america. i believe in her purse and her promise. i believe heard best days have not yet been lives. i believe our greatest deeds are

reserved for the generations to come and with the help and the courage of the american people, we will get our country working again very hot bless you and god bless the united states of america, thank you. host: governor rick perry entered the race and this is the headline in charleston, south carolina -- we want to hear from you and you can send us your comments on twittered or send us an e-mail at journal@cspan.org. good morning from lansing, mich.. caller: i like michelle bachmann and i like ron paul. i would like to see something of an insurmountable sarah palin

with michelle verses obama. i would like to see them talk more about funding of public radio and tv, training programs, jobs, taxpayer dollars, family values, the war, education, financial relief, disability, entitlements, failure to comply [unintelligible] also i am concerned with the second chance program. also the deceptive business tracking -- trafficking and the banking and utility companies, mortgage and i am also concerned about homelessness, animals, crime as well as the violence and late technology, two law enforcement agencies. host: a lot of issues there. santa monica, calif., democrats

lined. caller: with michelle bachmann winning this straw poll, it is interesting -- when obama ran out conservatives pounced on the fact that obama was not qualified, he did not have enough time in government. i cannot recall ever anyone leading from the house of representatives to the presidency. don't think it has happened since the 18th century. it will be interesting to see where this goes. i have never seen anyone talk in more platitudes and cheerleading a point of view than actually someone offering real solutions to the economy. she -- that is just beyond her pay grade. she is a great cheerleader for the right and she talks in memorize rhetoric but where are the solutions? i don't see anything being offered from her other than constantly repeating the same platitudes and ending it all

with barack obama should be a one-term president. host: from a politico this morning -- if rick perry wants to take on mitt romney, he will have to confront michelle bachmann in iowa. that story is online at political.com.

we talked yet they with the chairman of the iowa republican party. it is a fund-raiser before the caucuses will be held in iowa. milwaukee, wisconsin, independent line, good morning. caller: i just watched michelle bachmann's appearance and i think she is a real hoot. who will put her -- who will play her on saturday night live? has the iowa straw poll ever been more irrelevant? host: thank you for the call.

in the history of the iowa straw poll, the republican straw poll, only once has the determine the winner of the presidency and that was george w. bush. past winners have included mitt romney ran in 2007, losing to governor huckabee and losing the nomination to senator john mccain. in 1999, the winner of the straw poll was steve forbes and in 1995, the winner was bob dole. a look at the campaign calendar -- the announcement of governor perry officially in the race and next up is the florida republican holding a debate in a straw poll that will take place in late september, 22-24. the iowa caucus is set for september 26 next year and that will be followed by the new hampshire primary on valentine's day. julie, republican line, lake erie, illinois, go ahead. caller: i would like to know why

cspan missed the first three people yesterday. they totally mr. ron paul as being second. there was so much enthusiasm in iowa for ron paul. we need to get out of this war kand bring our money home to the united states and take care of our debts here. host: he was listed as a close second to rep michelle bachmann. the minnesota republican got 4823 votes. brownstone, mich., welcome to the conversation. caller: i have two little comments to make. everybody is talking about health care and we will get health care and we have to pay for health care. i want somebody to think about something -- i am social

security disabled and i get part a. i cannot afford cannotb so how can we afford pitching in for health care. i have no health care. the other thing i would like to say is that i am sorry, i am tired of the politicians. i am tired of the rhetoric. ok,just plain tired host: thanks for the call. you can join the conversation on twitter and next up is nelson from woodbridge, va.. caller: good morning. it is basically a passion for

the republicans to voice their rhetoric. i think they all say the same thing. in 2012, the democrats will show that they're full of hot air. host: from the minneapolis star tribune -- americans are more pessimistic about the economy than any time this year. republicans have accused the president of mixing policy with politics by barnstorming at taxpayer expense. white house adviser says it was a chance for the president who spent last -- much of the last month trapped in washington to get the reset button and connect

with ordinary americans. you can read more online at the "star tribune." we will be covering the president's stops along the way. georgia, welcome to the conversation, independent line. caller: good morning, rick perry looks just like george bush. he's got that twinkle in his eye. george bush had that twinkle. he looks like him. he talks like him and if the american people want george bush again, all they have to do is vote for rick perry. i have never seen a man -- the way he looks through his eyes and the way he talks -- he sounds like george bush against because of that texas drawl. that is really funny to me.

it just looks like george bush all over again. host: thank you for the call. lafayette, georgia, go ahead. caller: good morning and thank you for cspan. i've not call for a long time. i am quite a bit frustrated with the straw poll yesterday. people do not listen and they get excited when they talk about the past and what could be and what would be. nothing happens. what they cang us do better but the other has not done. it is getting so ridiculous. it would be a shame being a democrat and we cannot get our act together. i have been watching channel 8 all the time. people should watch it and they could see that things are missing when things come up for

a vote. the house is running the president. they make the decisions and then we go to the president. the president always has one vote. when the tub. the only power the president has over the military. our people need some education and that is what i have to say and i wish you all a happy sunday. host: from "the weekly standard" -- almost all of the michelle bachmann supporters said they were not certain they would supporter in the iowa caucus. the other focus over the weekend has been on a tim

pawlenti who has spent an awful lot of time in iowa campaigning. he spent about $200,000 in advertising alone. he had a tent and served 4000 dairy queen blisters. here is the former minnesota governor. >> now the call comes to each of us in our time as our country again faces great challenges -- this is the greatest nation the world has ever known. if we stand courageously to defend in and do everything we can to defeat barack obama and get this country back on track, we will have done our duty. we are the american people. it is a government for the people, by the people, of the people and we will remain the greatest nation the world has ever known and our country will not perished from the earth. [applause]

i want you to do everything you can in the closing hours of the straw poll to give support to my campaign. i will look you in the eye, each of you in this arena, and tell you that i know what this country needs. i understand are conservative principles. i understand what needs to be done and i will not just stand up here and give you the words. you can take it to the bank. i will restore america's promise and lead this country to a better, brighter, stronger place. thank you very much. i appreciate your support host: former minnesota government tim pawlenti.

as we have seen in other countries around the world, it is about dipping your finger in purple paying as an indication of the voting. amherst, mass., good morning. caller: good morning, more canned corn from iowa. the good news is that elizabeth

warren will be running against scott brown here in massachusetts for the senate. that is the good news, thanks, take care. host: here are a couple of e- mails -- fayetteville, north carolina, good morning. caller: i have to agree with the last couple comments. i think it is a bigger story that ron paul pimmit such a close second to michelle bachmann to get all the media attention seems to be on

michelle bachmann. i think ron paul is the strongest candidate from the republican field. host: jim has this point -- our twitter page is twitter.com. next is john from fayetteville, north carolina. are you with us? we will try one more time.

ok, we will continue with more of your phone calls. this comment is from one of our viewers -- our guest is from "the l.a. times." thank you for being with us. guest: it is great to be here. host: what kind of reception did rick perry dead when he got into the race? guest: extremely enthusiastic, he spoke before the rest a gathering which is a group of conservative writers on line who get together every year and usually meet with conservative politicians for a quiet weekend.

it turned out to be not so quiet for them this year. i think they had nearly 1/3 of the credentials they had in the more famous aims area. host: the timing came on the same day as the iowa straw poll. governor rick perry hop on a plane in new hampshire for an event that a house and today he is in waterloo, iowa for a series of campaign events there today and tomorrow and he is unveiling this in the key primary states. does this hurt him in iowa moving ahead? guest: maybe with a few people -- i was not really representative. it just happens to be the first. he got a lot more national exposure by playing off of the counter programming to ames. he was going to be here anyway.

the organizers got a hint two weeks ago and a confirmation a week ago that he was going to be doing that here. host: what does he bring to this race and how does this shake up the front runner status? mitt romney did not compete in the straw poll and he was in new hampshire over the weekend. guest: the interesting thing to me is that rick perry not being on the ballot got more right in votes than risk -- mitt romney did being on the ballot it was by a couple of hundred. it indicates that there is a hunter for the kind of candidate that rick perry is. he has a strong jobs record. he has credibility among conservatives, certainly among the tea party group.

he is the longest serving governor in the united states. , the longest serving governor in texas history and he got the tort reform the conservatives have been pushing for for a long time in texas. he was cutting taxes and in the last two years, texas has been responsible for a recall -- producing in excess of 40% of the jobs. listing accomplishments, kobe is not talking about what he would do as a chief executive. he is talking about what he has done. americans traditionally, george h. w. bush and abraham lincoln aside, americans have not elected a sitting house member today presidency since james garfield. four of the last six presidents have been governors.

the republicans like chief executives. democrats seem to like gel -- legislators more often. we only collected a sitting senator three times and we had to in 2008 because there were both sitting senators. also, the last three presidents have each been elected on their first criteritry. americans seem to be willing to elect a president without having known him or her so long as they have in the past. host: we had a couple of callers and if you listen to governor rick perry with his texas twang, you can hear a dented george w. bush. -- you could hear eight tinge of george w. bush. guest: that is the sales pitch

that the mid romney campaign is getting. they don't want to go back to texas although we have had -- if you can't george h. w. bush, there have been three -- lyndon johnson and the two bushes from texas and that does not seem to bother them to elect a second bush after the first bush got rejected for a second term. i'm not sure that will play very well. there is a real hunger among conservatives for someone with executive experience and credibility who has a record. i have seen a lot of politicians. my first political story in 1968 -- rick perry knows how to work the crowd. he has an attractive family but he came up and was standing next to me before he bounced onto the stage and he looked at

me and said," this will be a fun ride." he was like a racehorse getting into the gate. politicians say the best day of any campaign is the day you announce. from then on, it is downhill. i'm sure there'll be a lot of attacks and so on. rick perry likes retail politics and has been successful in texas. i don't know. i think it really shakes it up because it gives the conservative group a sort of a champion who has some charisma and a little bit more heft than some other people in the race. host: the story is from "the l.a. times."

thank you for your perspective. guest: it is an honor. i love cspan. host: from "the new york post" -- michelle bachmann was the winner in the iowa straw poll yesterday and she spoke to her supporters >> in the >> i was born in waterloo and born and raised in waterloo and cedar falls. in this wonderful part of our states, what i saw were reasonable, fair minded people who loved me, poured themselves into me and that is the voice

that i learned growing up, of common sense and moral values. that set the tone and i tell people that everything i needed to know in life, i learned in iowa. [applause] my mother and father taught us to always a lot of iowa. they said be grateful that you are from iowa iowa is the breadbasket of the world. we feed millions of people from iowa. be grateful. i have always been grateful that i am in iowa and it is time we have and i willn in the white house. host: michelle bachmann winning the republican test of those. louisiana, republican line, good morning. caller: good morning. i think it is wonderful

[unintelligible] host: manchester, new hampshire, independent line, good morning. caller: i vote with democrats about 95% of the time but i don't think they're much better than the republicans. the only candidate i can get enthusiasm for is ron paul. i think that is the story and i don't understand why it is not a bigger story. host: from "the boston sunday globe"-- st. louis, missouri, democrats

line, good morning. caller: i love cspan and i am a political junkie. i would say michelle bachmann has seen the writing on the wall and she knows and we know she will not win the nomination and the president but she contends the same route as sarah palin. as long as she can see on tv enough, she can be her own base and become a multi millionaire. let's not forget the republican party are not too fond of women being their political leaders. they will push her out mitt romney will the dog by the media. rick perry will probably be the. the media will run such an onslaught of negativity, comparing him to george w. bush that he will not win a there. i will make one prediction and what everybody in the nation to hear this -- when the super

group gets together to make the decision on the debt ceiling cuts and everything, if they come to a decision, obama will win the presidency because the powers that be and the super wealthy need to keep the confusion and commotion going on months the american people host: along those lines is a front-page story -- several lawmakers have pointed to the palle and sounded unexpectedly eager to find common ground. that is from the front page of

"the washington post." next is dan from allentown, pa., good morning. caller: i want to make a comment regarding ron paul in this trouble. -- in the straw poll. it is not particularly important as far as the primary goes, i want to say that his positioning as close to michelle bachmann is a huge signal that people are starting to recognize him for what he is. i believe the mainstream republicans try to pigeonhole him as a fringe, not the person. if you read his book, he had the

house financial services committee in 2003 warning of government-sponsored enterprises like fannie mae and freddie mac creating an artificial -- artificial housing bauble. he predicted the mortgage prices and he has a solid voting record and has never voted against his principles. host: michelle bachmann is the winner, the first blood in the straw poll and ron paul is second. if you are interested, we have conducted a series of in-depth interviews with many of the presidential candidates including representative ron paul available on our website c- span.org/campaign 2012 with interviews and in depth coverage of their backgrounds.

there are the ron paul fought on the federer reserve and the gold standard. that is on line and c-span.org/ campaign 2012. ron paul came in second and talked to supporters yesterday getting in excess of 4200 boats, number two and a -- in a straw poll that had nine candidates participating. >> quite a bo haveom and bnust periods./ he is related to economics. if you want prosperity, you have to understand the monetary policy and understand the mission of the federal reserve system and we have to change it. [applause]

in order to attract investments and attract capital into a country, you cannot have a weak currency. we in flight and was the which means we printed too much money to pay for the dead. that weakens the currency and chases capital overseas. it goes to the stronger country. guess what it? we are the greatest debtor in the history of the world. guess what? we owe $1.40 trillion to china and we wonder why we have a problem. you have to have a strong current. there is nothing wrong with reject instituting the constitution because it is still on the books that only gold and silver can be legal tender. host: those are comments from representative ron paul yesterday in the iowa straw poll. we are getting your reaction

this morning. the sun the round table is coming up in about 10 minutes. eugene, ore., independent line, go ahead caller: like many others, i have been wondering why the media does not mention ron paul more often. the few times i have heard him talk, he makes more sense to me than any other republican candidate i have heard. i think the media should pay more attention to him and give him a chance to talk more and mention the fact that he came in second, so close to michelle bachmann. i was even surprised by that. i am looking to hear this new governor perry because he seems very good, too. i definitely think ron paul should be included in every mention of the straw poll along with michelle bachmann. they are so close.

host: daniel is joining us from franklin, new york, democrats line, good morning. caller: i want to comment on the candidates and the tea party quickly. i would never vote for another person from texas and i would not vote for a person who has talked about having texas secede from the union. i find that to be traitorous. michelle bachmann disrespected iowa. she goes around saying that john quincy adams was a founding father and a founding fathers got rid of slavery i don't know who she had for a teacher but she is blaming iowa. we have too many people out there putting out

misinformation analyze and i am tired of that. there are several people that say ron paul has been excluded from the media. by a great. i would not vote for the mandrak i just listened to him. the boom and bust cycle in the 1800's, we have had several. it goes back into europe. i am tired of the misinformation. the media is working to get tom -- tim pawlenti out. he is misquoting abraham lincoln, the father of the republican marty. party. we are a government by the rich, for the rich, and we're one by corporations. comcast buys msnbc and olbermann

e and thed take shaw on 10:00. the media controls and defines the message. host: you sure watch this process very closely, thank you for your call. caller: if you give me a minute i will finish. host: go ahead caller: the tea party is accurate. they were drunk, british citizens, not loyal. there were cowards dressed up as indians. they destroyed other people's property. but tea party downgraded the u.s. a 28a and they blame president barack obama per host: thank you for the call. from "the houston chronicle"--

logan, iowa, republican line, good morning. did you go to the straw poll? caller: yes, we are still here in ames in a hotel room but we had a chance to listen to rick perry and to be honest, the guy put me to sleep. the guy read his cue cards. there is no fire in his belly with rick perry on that project on like michelle bachmann or mitt romney. the guy put me to sleep. i did not see any fire in the belly with rick perry. that is my comment. host: coming up "on been newsmakers," our guest is independent senator bernie sanders of vermont. the state of democratic party politics is what we will talk about, deficit negotiations and

there is a portion in the interview where we ask about taxes and what the democrats have faced the last six or seven months. >> i look at it differently. in the last three negotiations we had going back to december in terms of tax extensions, in terms of when the republicans threatened to shut down the government and the recent debt ceiling issue -- i think republicans kind of won all three of those negotiations hands down. most people consider that to be the case. my view is that what the democrats have to do is remain strong, protect social security, medicare, and medicaid and the republicans have to do what the overwhelming majority of the american people want. that is you have to have shared sacrifice. you have to have the wealthiest people in this country who are doing phenomenally well and

their effective tax rate is the lowest in a decade, large corporations who are making billions in profits, sometimes pay nothing in taxes -- they have to contribute to deficit reduction. if they choose not to do that, and i think almost all republicans on this committee have made their pledge to grover norquist, i am not sure kind of progress you will have. host: independent senator bernie sanders. he is a member of the senate budget committee and he is our guest of "news"makers at 10:00 eastern. the front page of " the new york times"--

this could read or the top tier of contenders. -- reporter re ---order the top tier of contenders. coming in fourth was oryx santorum who spent much of the last month campaigning across i will with his family. here's a portion of his speech. >> ladies and gentlemen, as you saw from the debate the other night, this campaign is about scratching and clawing for every little bit of recognition we can get. i had to wait my hand and ask for recognition. this is little engine that could campaign. [applause] they told us we had no chance. all the press does is right about these shiny engines that keep coming by or maybe will

come by and help and maybe pick up and start working hard. we did not wait around. we started working. hard we started going out and and i was more than any other candidate and then to new hampshire and south carolina more than any other candidate because i want to be accountable to you and i want the people who will make the decisions, the will have the first cut of narrowing this field and selecting a president to get a chance to look me in the eye and kick might shins and the tires and hear from me exactly my vision for this country and answer your questions. host: rex santorum kamen fourth in yesterday's straw poll. back to your calls. louisiana, independent line, good morning. caller: thank you for your show. the politics are entertaining, i

watched a lot yesterday and i thought was entertaining, i am kind of frustrated by how much of our government is all about the politics of the next election. there have been attempts from time to time on reform from finance reform to term limits. i don't see any kind of discussion or movement in that direction at all. like you and others have said, it is is a much easier to attack than to propose real solutions. i wish i was hearing let's get behind that things that might work or that have work to. i wish we were more solution oriented instead of attacking. that would be my general comments. host: one of the other footnotes from the straw poll yesterday is that there were nine names on the ballot including jon huntsman and mitt romney, mitt romney getting about 567 votes

and governor hunt and only getting 69 votes and rick perry is a riding can dig got more than mitt romney. coming in fifth was businessman herman cain. here is a part of his speech. >> we have a fuzzy foreign policy coming out of washington, d.c. and the administration. i have been criticized because i have not had any direct foreign policy experience. the guy we have there now has? [laughter] let me understand that. i may not have extensive foreign-policy experience but let me tell you what my approach to foreign policy will be. number one, clearly identified who are friends are, clearly identify who our enemies are,

and start -- and stop giving money to our enemies. [applause] #two, before i commit any of our brave men and women in uniform to go into war on behalf of this nation, i will make sure that the mission is clear. i will make sure that the definition of victory is clear and i will make sure that it is clear how it is in the best interest of the united states and that particular nation because if i send our men and women into war they want to be in it to win it and that is why it would be clear why we are there. host: herman cain yesterday at the iowa straw poll and our coverage is available on-line c- span.org.

and our video libraries c- span.org is/campaign 2012. lakehurst, new jersey, democrats line, good morning. caller: good morning, i have a couple of comments, if i may. i would like the larger public, when they find out about the jobs that a governor perry has created in texas are low-paying jobs. the second factor is that texas ranks number 47 among all the states in the number of people who receive health care in texas. as i watched the straw poll over the weekend, i had this recurring thought in my head that i wondered what the starving people in somalia, if

they could watch that, would have thought about the excess of food at that fair, particularly the fried bader. i thought that was pretty revolting. host: another comment from twitter -- the winner in the iowa straw poll was rep michelle bachmann and ron paul came in second in a distant third is tim pawlenti. we'll let much more on this with our sunday roundtable and the issue of home from terrorism will be later. this weekend marks the 50th anniversary of the construction and installation of the berlin wall. these are topics still to come on this sunday morning. first, all the sunday shows f the aive-fecta with michelle bachmann on all the sunday morning shows.

>> good morning. michelle bachmann is on all of the five network tv talk shows today. they beganre-airing at noon " with meet the press." there will be the iowa republican governor along with michelle bachmann. at 1:00, abc "bus this week. " there will be tim pawlenti who will join michelle bachmann. fox news sunday begins repairing at 2:00 p.m. they will have michelle bachmann and at 3:00, "state of the union" and herman cain will be on as well as iowa republican congressman steve king. at 4:00 p.m., it is "face the nation." michelle bachmann will be

interviewed and she is followed by the democratic national committee chairman, rep debbie wasserman schultz of florida. the five network tv talk shows are brought to you as a public service by the networks and cspan garrett it begins at noon eastern "with meet the"press, you can listen to them all on cspan radio, 9 on0.1 in the washington, d.c. area and nationwide on satellite ex-im radio. see what political reporters are saying and see more of the candidates with the cspan web site for campaign 2012. it helps you navigate the political landscape would twitter feats and facebook updates from the campaigns, a b

candidateios and the latest polling data a perso. all this is that c-span.org/ campaign 2012. >> as an aspiring journalist, and already preparing myself for the very small salary i will be starting out with. >> to be a good journalist, you have to be disciplined enough to put aside your bias and report the facts, the true. >> the people white people love fox news and movies so much is because it is an experience, it is emotional, it is love and hate. >> aspiring high school journalists on ethics, the role of opinion and commentary, and where they get their news and information in today's multimedia environment, tonight on cspan's "q &a." ." >> this weekend on c-span 3, we will visit the office of the archivist of the united states

as the show's historic documents. current defense secretary leon panetta recalls his years working in the republican administration of richard nixon and his eventual resignation and his wish to the democratic party. on the 50th anniversary of the bay of pigs invasion, an author gives a critical look at u.s.- cuban relations in the 1950's and '60's and the action of the eisenhower and kennedy administrations. get the complete schedule c- span.org @/history. "washington journal" continues. host: this is our political roundtable. thank you for being with us. let's get your reaction to the rick perry entry into the race. what does he do to the republican field? guest: he brings a tremendous amount of. money

he brings a tremendous amount of credibility and a strong relationship with the evangelical community. on the other hand, where will he win in the early going? he has to be able to win either iowa, new hampshire, or south carolina. host: from than " the new york times." guest: this resets of the race. the race has been craving a new entrant and it may be more to come. governor harry will be a will be a formidable force in thhe has a long rehistory of success in texas which will match up with an incumbent president and he will be well- funded. he has a great deal of resonance with the conservative

grassroots and the tea party as well host: there's a story this morning in " the new york times"-- will voters reward -- host: gguest: voters reward success. the economy will not be better by the time to get to the election. and people look down the road and see that things -- things are starting to get better? if they look down the road and see more of a cent, it will be hand-to-hand combat.

for the white house and the congress, what can they do to improve the economy? host: the timing of this was a mentor is an official event being paid for by taxpayers in what looked like a campaign- style appearance. guest: if we were not talking about the iowa straw poll so much, this would be a rough weekend and week ahead for the president. this was one of his worst weeks in officethe polls looked bad on independence and the stock market went up and down like a roller coaster. the credit rating was downgraded for the first time in our history as a country. the fallout from the debt ceiling deal that he cut with republican and democratic leadership in congress. it was a bad week for the d.c. establishment. the final thing that was a blow

to the president was the court ruling against the obama care individual mandate. he now has a decision to make if he tries to delay that until after the election in the supreme court or allow it to go forward so that especially small businesses that create jobs and have some certainty about what is coming. that has a direct effect on the economy. even "the washington post" says the supreme court needs to take that up right away. we will be looking to see what the president says this week and will there be anything of substance because that has been one of his biggest critics. host: from "the washington post's"--

sarah palin was at the state fair in iowa on friday and will be back in iowa labor day weekend guest: i think sarah palin is one of the reasons why the conservatives and the tea party were big winners in the straw poll. on friday, she showed up and was not on the ballot. her supporters were not campaigning m she wasobbed. -- and a she wasmobbed. she has a very intense and large following around this country. if she gets in, she will be forced to be reckoned wind and the enthusiasm

proves that the pa be alin primary. we have not heard the blast from her. i think she will be heard from loud and clear in this process. as you look at the polls in the republican party, if you add up all percentages representing conservative and tea party candidatesmatch them up, it woue been a contest. i think that t party and the conservative grassroots are big winners this week. guest: sarah palin is on the verge of becoming a political parasite. she decides the week before to make an appearance there, not to put herself on the ballot, but

the day before decides that she is going to go there and bask in the 700 journalists there to cover that event, it really is paris cynical behavior. it strikes me as a mature. other things are going on and she decided to take advantage of other opportunities to inject yourself in that dialogue, and yet she will not put herself in front of the voters. something very strange in that, in my view. this is been a very bad week for the tea party and much worse. then for the president. the s&p said that the downgrade was because people were talking about the faulting. who was that? republican members of congress went before the public and cameras and said the fault would not be bad. how can any rating agency look at that and say -- and be convinced that the united states would be committed to pay its debt? they attacked the full faith and

credit of the united states publicly. and that is why we were downgraded. they bear a tremendous amount of responsibility for that. republican candidates are forced to pledged fealty to a movement that is becoming pariahs in this country. the unfavorable ratings are shooting up. the number of people who identify with a tea party has been cut in half. that is a problem for republicans. host: we're talking withm and keith appell. we want to hear from you. join the conversation online. at twitter. gerry has been waiting in michigan. caller: thank you for taking my call. with this entry into the race by rick perry, that is quite interesting.

is very charismatic and i know the people in texas looks at him and see ronald reagan all over. but from a strategy point of view, and maybe keith can answer this, how does he pick someone who looks like a republican and convince the american people that when they learned that he was the campaign manager for al gore in 2000 in texas, how does he change his stripes? guest: that is a terrific question commentary. a lot of republican candidates, more than you might realize, were democrats and a previous life. ronald reagan was one of them. i do not think that will be too much of a problem. the issue for repairing is going to be his record in taxes and how he matches up against president obama. i think he matches up very well there. when your in office for a long

time, as rick perry has been, it cuts both ways. you can play off of your experience and your success over the long term, but you also make enemies. i do not think that rick perry is going to come into this race and be untouched. on the flip side, having run several races in texas where politics can be pretty brass knuckles, he has held up pretty well in taking on the democrats and on -- and against competitors in his own party. i think he will play very well as to get started, but he is going to have to absorber and face some attacks from different quarters. whether democrats or from the media or even some people in his own party. he has held up and done well but that is one of the reasons why he will be formidable. he has been tested. he has been tried and true in a tough state like texas. i think that his record matching up against president obama will

play very well. host: writing about governor perry in the "new york times." his mother was a seamstress, and still made his underwear when you went off that congress -- college. his decree was in animal science. he is a methodist who attends an evangelical met a church near his home. mark mellman. guest: a lot of this bagram will cause some suburbs. he has said the social security and medicare are unconstitutional. he believes the state of texas ought to consider succeeding from that union. that was resolved under 50 years

ago. i don't think even republicans in iowa and new hampshire will if it's someone like that as a credible candidate. beyond that, looking at his record in texas, there is some job growth. is that right perry or oil prices going through the roof? i would put my money on the oil prices. the education system, he slashed education. texas is near the bottom for people graduating from high school. i don't think that is a record you want to elevate that person and put him in charge of the country. host: from twitter. guest: they ought to do further research. to say democrats refuse to cut spending is to say that the last couple of weeks did not happen. democrats cut trillions of

dollars in spending, offered more spending cuts on the table. republicans refuse those spending cuts. at the end of the day, the democrats voted for a bill that cut spending. that is just on the face of it. but if you do not think that he party is becoming less popular, consoled every poll in the country. there is not a poll done by any reputable organization, whether gallup, washington post, every poll has shown on grote -- growing unpopularity of the tea party. if someone can show the opposite of that, i would be interested in seeing them. they're becoming an increasingly lonely individuals out there. host: the first of a series of campaign ads for rick perry. >> is this the change americans voted for 2,000 acres are today our children are saddled with a record debts.

money is borrowed from creditors. our nation faces a jobs crisis. one in every six work eligible americans cannot find a full- time job. home values are almost one-third lower than they were five years ago. and job creators like the confidence to invest because of the federal regulations and the debt crisis. record debt and the president's refusal to control spending led to our nation's credit rating being down credit for the first time in history. but hope is on the horizon. not the empty rhetoric of hope, but our record that gives us hope. that later -- rick perry. america's jobs governor. he learned the value of hard work, patriotism, and faith in god as the son of farmers in paint tint, texas. he returned to the family farm, and married his high-school sweetheart, and starting a

family. conservative to the court, rick perry's fiscally conservative leadership helped bring texas and a check. he has fought all lawsuit reform that forced doctors it -- he created jobs. he stopped frivolous lawsuits. and rick perry's texas has created more than 40 percent side of america's net new jobs in the last two years. it is time to get america working again. we need a leader who knows private enterprise, not government, creates jobs. if someone with a proven executive leadership. willing to make tough choices on government spending. of unleashing the power of american ingenuity and innovation in the private sector. that leader is rick perry. and the restoration of american jobs and the american dream begins now. host: that is available on his

website. who is running the campaign? guest: i know the main person behind it is dave carney, who previously was with newt gingrich, but was one of those people who left that gingrich campaign when newt went on his extended trip in the middle of the presidential campaign. carney has been a political confidante of preparing for a long time. it is a veteran of republican politics and national politics. very well connected in new hampshire. he is going to be a major asset for governor perry. i want to say one thing about polls and the tea party. i can cite a poll for you, the election in 2010. many polls in that election with the tea party and falling out of favor, but as was said on nbc, the 800-pound gorilla in that election was the tea party.

a lot of people react to the national mainstream media image, which sometimes can be unfavorable. but americans have been energized by it this administration. i would warn against reading too much into those polls. host: some other names in case your and trichet. the "washington times" has a look at the campaign staff. raese sullivan is going to serve as the communications director. mark miner is the spokesperson. guest: it is hard to look at the election of 24 men and talk about what happened since then by referencing it. the point i'm making about the tea party is that since the election of 2010, they have become a lot more a popular breed in the last couple of months, they have become a lot more popular.

they did well in 2010, but that is not a sensible approach. they were popular and no one would deny that. they are unpopular now and that is a change. maybe it is because of the media but more likely for what they have done in said. the tea party has done real damage to this country. most of the people in the country want a balanced approach. they want to cut spending, no doubt about it, but most think it is ok to stop giving subsidies to oil companies. the tea party system appeared most think it is ok to make corporate tax -- corporate jet owners pay taxes or hedge fund managers pay taxes. the tea party says now. what spending to they want to cut? such as recorded -- social security and medicare. that is what this country objects to. that is why rick perry -- he has garnered great team working for him, but when people find out that this people -- this person

believes that social security and medicare are unconstitutional, when he slashed education and taxes, most americans will not want him as his -- as their president. i do not believe that will happen. host: joys -- cheryl joins us. caller: i am glad that you took my call. whenever rick perry is on stage, he is terrible and he scares me. i do not want him as president. i am a strong democrat. i think the republicans in the congress should give obama a chance. they blocked everything that he puts up. host: thank you for the call. a republican ploy is from pennsylvania.

caller: very quickly. iii. is george burrish i do not think he is going anywhere. our friend romney with romney care, i think that he is finished. we do not need a republicrat. the real story is ron paul. that the at currency system is crumbling. -- the fiat currency system is crumbling. the godfather of the tea party is ron paul. ceo of godfather's pizza is our other friend there. i think that pawlenty is out, palin is a sideshow, and you are looking at ron paul. host: scott has this. he is a frequent guest.

we can buy them on often pretty normally says his spirit is also in an interview on our website at c-span.org. he is a political factor. he came in second yesterday. guest: i don't think you can add cheap -- accuse c-span of that. absolutely. the showing by ron paul and the intensity in his campaign, not only this year, but four years ago, i think it is a definite factor. i think it lends credence to the ascendancy of the conservative grassroots in the republican party and the ascendancy of the establishment in washington. -- descendancy of the establishment in washington. given what mark was saying earlier, and you're getting an early taste of what is to come with rick perry and in examining the record in texas, and a

denunciation of the tea party, but the fact of the matter is, the only poll that matters is the one on election day. the tea party was beaten up last year and they came out and help the republicans win the majority in the house. they are holding those people's feet to the fire appeared all they care about is cutting spending with a $14 trillion debt, with 01 $0.40 -- $1.4 trillion deficit this year. the administration has nothing to point to. he's not as a record of accomplishment. all it can do is tear down the other party and the republicans or that the party but that is why it is going to be a very negative campaign. guest: that is not all the tea party is concerned about. we did a poll with republican colleagues asking if they were more interested in creating jobs or cutting the deficit. people were more interested by

3-1 in creating jobs. and among those to party members, more tea party members think that creating jobs was more important than cutting the deficit. creating jobs is what it is all about. they are a focus like laser on creating jobs, and that is what the republicans have been unwilling to come to grips with it in the congress for their 100% focused on cutting, not creating jobs. and a half to change the priority quickly or they will see their unfavorable ratings continue to climb. host: can the speaker in the house and the president worked out a deal on spending and revenue? guest: there are able to make an agreement to cuts but not to create jobs. the republicans are not interested in creating jobs, and justin cutting. can we cut? yes, that we can agree. can we agree to create jobs? only democrats are interested in

creating jobs. guest: that is ridiculous. i would go back to a comment made by a very prominent democrat in the state of nevada, a very strong backer of harry reid, steve wynn, a very successful businessman. on a conference call with other business leaders, he really did the president and the democratic party for not being serious about creating jobs. indeed because spending and get your fiscal house in order in order to encourage business to get off the sidelines and start investing in creating jobs and growing their businesses. if they cannot do this because this administration's policies have been failures. it was remarkable in the way that he castigated the president. host: governor. accepted $17 billion in stimulus money to help balance his budget. nikki haley of south carolina has accepted federal spending

dollar. governor haley barbour of mississippi has accepted stimulus money. is it fair to press the size the president when the states have except that the spending money? guest: that is an outstanding question and it will be held against them. is there some hypocrisy in it? i do think that on balance, conservative governors, whether rick perry or scott walker in wisconsin or john kasich, are willing to take the heat and make some tough decisions that people in washington just cannot seem to make. over time you are going to see that they reap the benefits and get their fiscal houses in order, the way that repair reid did in texas. the jobs are going to come in. that is where the strength is. yes coming you can make an argument about accepting stimulus money, bought by large, it is really all about jobs. and if you have a record of creating more jobs in your state

than any other state as a contrast to the way that people are suffering in this country, especially in industrial states and states like california, you will look pretty good host: mark mellman, on the democratic side, we have seen a trillion dollars in deficit spending by the end of july. that will be 3 years in a row. guest: why do we have this deficit? the history is clear. we have to w. awards, bush tax cuts for the wealthiest americans, and then we had a recession the president was caused also cost the country money very there's no question that we have a debt. but the real question is what you try to do to fix it. this president, the democrats in congress, they have voted for cuts in spending, put forward plans to cut spending, and have cut spending by chileans of dollars over the next number of years. that is what we need. but the question is what you do on the other side? what about on the jobs creation

side? the workers have a host of proposals. democrats are saying we should give businesses tax breaks to create jobs. we cannot get republicans to agree to give tax breaks to businesses to create jobs, what is going on here? host: is it now the president's economy? guest: voters will tell you that the primary responsibility for this economy lies with george bush. by the time we get to the election, people cannot help but acted as if the president's response pull even though they know it is george bush's fault we're in this mess. host: on the independent line. caller: i keep thinking that cable companies for having you guys on. the first episode there which is continuing the same subject into this episode, i did a yahoo! search, i do not do google on

the internet, about michele bachmann. the reuters a story, pretty much international, bachmann and perry had a 2012 rivalry. they have a poll on there, and they are doing the same thing as the guests of doing. they are totally ignoring ron paul. ron paul gets elected and manages to do away with the fed, there is that fact out that will be eaten forever. an interesting thing is that on this reuters poll, there were a few thousands in iowa. on this poll here, ron paul wins it by 30% with almost 19,000 votes and michele bachmann comes in a slow third at 18% with 11,000 votes. the big story today for the news is, who is ignoring ron paul and why are they ignoring ron paul? with all of that coming you

continue to do good work. i enjoy you. host: jim duncan also had this point of view. [laughter] he also talked about representative michele bachmann. when you have a newsweek cover like this before the straw poll, did this help or hurt? guest: it is a double-edged sword. it is a recognition of the support that she has and how that support is growing in the republican party. when she got in the race, steve, i was asked about this and i really felt and still feel today that she has the most upside of many of the republicans. it does not meet u.n. yet nomination. and she has the opportunity to build a national falling. she's the first woman to win the straw poll. we should not overlook that. it shows that times have

changed in the republican party for the good. i say that as someone who has worked for three women candidates in the past. it was good to see that. but i do think that she's still an unknown to many people. it is easy to raise certain questions. what she said in the past, about her record, inconsistencies -- she will have to deal with that. now you are in the big leagues, but so far, she has been able to transcend that. she has some very good people working for her. ed rollins is a season for a political professional on the republican side. a number of people have transferred from her congressional staff over to campaign, and they are very good people. she has a good team around her. i think she proved that, if nothing else, the straw poll is a test of a campaign

organizational strength. i do agree with what the caller said a moment ago. we're not overlooking ron paul there. c-span is doing -- is not doing that but that is happening in the media. this is almost a tie. michele bachmann got a few more votes than ron paul but it was very close. that cannot be overlooked. host: was this news coverage 80 spot -- a cheap shot? guest: i think it was, but she used to herd management iowa. at the end of the day, it helped appeared she obviously won a straw poll. she cemented herself as a serious front runner can panic -- candidate. ron paul, interesting, as the person who e-mailed said, if you have a lot of people focused on ron paul. we tend to dismiss his son. his son ran against mitch mcconnell in -- mitch

mcconnell's choice and beat the establishment guy. he is now senator. most people think that he does not have much of a chance to win. but this is the kind of primary electorate that could nominate ron paul. it is an interesting contest, but the real question is who will win the iowa caucuses ultimately. michele bachmann shows that she has a chance to do that. host: we are in des moines at the state far, and it was the "des moines register" saltbox. a lot of people were there. one thing said was almost immediately turned into a dnc ad. and every campaign, candidates have verbal miscues draw plenty of attention. at a stop in iowa on thursday, mitt romney m. keller did out

that corporations are people. guest: i think there is a little bit of a double standard when it comes to that. mark and i are both better rents of campaigns, and many good candidates say things that they regret. it happens. " what ever reason, some people could call it a predisposition, but the mainstream media has a tendency to really camp on and well on caps made by

republicans. when barack obama says and the campaign that he has been in all 57 states, they as they gaffe and it did not get much attention. when he goes to westminster abbey earlier this year and signed his name and and dates to 2008, if towards the bush had done that or any republican don knapp, it would have been a big story. yes these things are worth noting and these things are worth talking about. but there is a little double standard. you remind me of something we have not talked about. we have not really talked about mitt romney. and mitt romney is coming into the straw poll, he was really the leader or the front runner. not only nationally but in some of the states. i think that his debate performance, a defacto win for him in many people's opinion, because no one made up -- no one the glove on him.

that's been long forgotten. palin came to the straw poll and was mobbed on friday. not only were people all over her, but people were made them much attention to is getting rid the michele bachmann twins and rick perry gets into the record this morning we're talking about ron paul. the lack of attention already on mitt romney underscores the precarious lead that he has. he is somewhat of a weak front runner and it is remarkable how that debate performance, that has been lost. scotus is the supreme court of the united states. we're at the iowa state fair, this is called a soap box. >> the promises that we make in social security, medicaid, and medicare are promises that we can keep.

there paris ways to do that. we could raise taxes on people. that is not the weight -- corporations are people, my friend. we could raise taxes -- of course they are. everything corporations earn ultimately cut the people. [laughter] where do you think it goes? [unintelligible] human beings, my friend. guest: if you want to be honest about this, what governor romney was saying was accurate. he was saying that when people -- things go to corporations, it does to people. but the point is, erupt like something fundamental about his world view. and governor romney is a corporate type. he comes out of the corporate world. he is someone who has been someone who is dismantled corp. and gotten rid of employees in ship their jobs overseas. that is the corporate world from which she comes.

that fact that he said something this seems a little strange, the reason is a story because it reflects something about the fundamental world view. and that is true as these other -- of these gaffes. no one thinks the barack obama thinks that there that many states. it does not reflect something about some fundamental para michele bachmann's continue inability to get certain facts right does is just something about her character and her knowledge base. that is why these things are important. they feed into larger stores that are fundamentally true about these candidates. host: crystal is joining us. caller: i like to ask what kind of jobs did rick perry create in texas? he is going around saying that

he is the jobs candidate. what types of jobs were heat creating in texas? host: a lot of jobs or in the oil and gas industries. guest: not only those traditional texas industries, but there have also been a shift that texas has embraced toward the new economy, the internet and technology. i think that is where a lot of the jobs are going. there is a lot of opportunity. i think from top to bottom, a lot of votes -- boats had been lifted by the rising tide. i think that that will play very well as he goes forward in his campaign. one of the things we have not talked about very much is that the president's poll numberss poll independents have been really going down. i think cnn polled earlier this

week and show 33% give him my job approval. that is barely a third of independents. that is where the republicans like rick perry and michele bachmann, sarah palin and she gets in the race, chris christie think it's in the race -- we have not talked about him and i would not rule them out -- there is a lot of running room for the republicans given the economic climate and the mood of the country. host: rich is on the republican line. caller: in this short time, we have gone into debt more than i will make a lifetime. i also think that mitt romney is a businessman and does not have a chance. i will vote for anybody that of polls the constitution of the united states. guest: i think that governor romney does come from that corporate world. but when we talk about jobs in

texas, the rising tide has been the rising tide of oil prices. it is helped texas and governor perry. it has hurt the rest of this but it is been a boom for texas. i just heard on the radio the new unemployment figures for dallas, unemployment is up to 9.1%, the same that it is across the country. held't think texas can be up as a special example of jobs creation. they have oil and that -- rick perry did not put that oil in texas. host: he officially entered the race yesterday appeared here's more from a speech available on- line at c-span.org. >> america is not broken. washington, d.c. is broken. [applause] whinnied balanced budgets, lower taxes, less regulation, and civil justice reform.

those same four principles. our country's most urgent need is to revitalize our economy. stop the generational that going on with this record debt. host: keith appell, the style and substance of rick perry. guest: 4 years he has competed in texas successfully and that has worn well on him. he is polished. his resolute. he is firm and its principals and convictions and that translates. that translated in that speech and it will care translate on the campaign trail. he will be a tough customer for the republican candidates in the race right now and it is fortunate enough to win, he will be a tough customer for barack obama. that is one of the assets he brings, is that he is tested, especially coming through several campaigns in texas. he is used to playing in the big weeks -- leagues.

host: from twitter. guest: i stand corrected. host: go-ahead, damien. caller: have a comment for both guys. i do like representative. . i like his style and his charisma -- i like rick perry. i like his style and his charisma. if he is drawn toward the far right and impresses the tea party and what they want to do as far as cut, cut, cut, and not have a balanced approach, it will draw me away as an independent. i am in the center and believe that both parties should work together and find common ground

together. it cannot be all one way and on the other way. as far as the democrat's strategists, i love president obama. i voted for him and i will vote against him if he does not stand up and leave and do the things that a president should do, like a couple weeks ago, we were talking about the 14th amendment. the tea party in the democrats and republicans, his party had his back on this 14th amendment thing but he did not uses. -- he did not use it. he is the power to exploit the republicans and say, let's put this on tv, care rid of a closed-door meetings. let's have this up on c-span. like the health-care debate at the blair house, he did not do it. i do not see him taking the reins as a president should do. that turns me off. host: thank you for the call. guest: there two things that come to mind as i listen to the

caller is an independent who likes obama personally. obama's personal liability will be a factor for the republicans. it is going to take a really good campaign and some really difficult circumstances for obama to lose. , both of those things may happen. when you talk about rick perry with obama, one of those contrasts is regardless of where you see the candidates on different issues, the contrast in leadership and leadership style is going to be a big one. if things are the same year from now as they are now. rick perry is a leader for you know where he stands for you may not agree but you know where he is coming from. barack obama has had this somewhat nebulous, vague philosophy that the government will take care of it. let's spend more money. and it has not work.

people are frustrated, even his liberal base, because he has not been seen as much of a leader on what he supposedly believes. i think those two things will be fascinating and a watch, -- to watch, not only does it bring credit space feeling about obama and the contrast and leadership between obama's file and the republican nominee's stop. it is perry, it will be quite a contrast. host: only one winner of the straw poll has gone on to win the presidency. ronald reagan did not win the straw poll. he went on to win the nomination and the president sigurd yesterday's 16,892 ballots were cast. the second highest. they're about 23,000 back in 1999. is it relevant? guest: it is not decisive but it

is relevant. most of our presidents have not won the straw poll. many of them have now won the iowa caucus. but at the end of the day, they tend to lead people out. for example, i think we will see some of the candidates they competed in iowa and not do well in the have and a drop out of this race for all intents and purposes. gov. pawlenty, i think, is a prime example of that. it is not ready to drop out yet, but it will be increasingly difficult to raise money and get attention and get news conference because he had been eclipsed because he invested in the straw poll and has nothing to show for. michele bachmann will get a lot of attention and raise a lot of money. host: at 10,000 people showed up, tim pawlenty would have done well. but in the story, michele bachmann, winning roses will be short stem.

this is because of repairing entering the race. she also says that tim pawlenty is the decisive loser. it only 2300 votes and rose above the sixth place in june, but losing to ron paul will sting. he can recover but it will take extremely loyal financial backers to keep them in this race. guest: as a veteran of campaigns, the race at the beginning is all about expectations and meeting or exceeding expectations. unfortunately for tim pawlenty, the expectation game that the best of them. the invest a lot in the straw poll. they tried to make it a real test of his organizational strength. it got out of hand with the media. some were saying that he has to win our he is gone. that is not true.

the bill when it comes to meeting and exceeding expectations, the straw poll -- i was there in 1999. we were working for steve forbes and we came in a strong second in the straw poll in the caucuses. host: he spent millions of dollars. guest: and naloxone i see that today. guest: i got paid well. i will never run from that. " we were successful in the number things. even though steve from a conservative and republican appointee, pressing george bush on issues taxes and tax cuts sprint can manifest himself when it became president the past across-the-board tax cuts that played very well with independents and republicans, and even in last december, barack obama decided to keep them. he contrasts that all the way back to the competition for the straw poll and the caucuses

between bush and forbes. if it was not for the pressure, he would never have weighed in on that. host: on the stage yesterday, five of the six candidates welcome supporters at the iowa straw poll. gov. pawlenty was not on stage. marjah joins us from north tennessee. the republican line. caller: [unintelligible] they know they reagan's taxes hurt the economy my daddy converted from democrat to republican. if you're not a democrat when you're young and silly, you have no heart. and when you are not a republican when you are mature, you have no brains. [unintelligible] to make loans to people who they

knew would not pay back. when george bush did that what fannie mae and freddie mac, yet the democrats fighting him all the way. franklin raines dole $90 million out of fannie mae. to the democrat there, you need to quit lying. both thatl give you chance. melvin is joining us from baltimore, maryland. caller: i would take issue with the comment ability frustrated with president obama. we are not frustrated, but we're frustrated with people like the last caller who are not dealing with reality. my question is this. how would rick perry, hit a elected president, deal with a minority group in talks this acting is a goon squad for the opposite party?

and i will take my answer offline. host: thank you for the call. mark mellman, we will start with you. guest: i am not sure how rick perry would deal with that. yet a very pliant legislature in texas. he never had to deal with the legislature controlled by the opposite party. these are among the things that people do not know about rick perry. no people -- many people have not heard his name until a couple of weeks ago. this guy as governor of state of texas tried to sell roads in the state to a foreign corporation to turn them into toll roads. who was a lobbyist for that foreign corporation? his former chief of staff. an insider deal they got a tremendous amount of criticism. there's not many people outside of texas that knows the store for a lot of stuff will come out over time.

there is a lot to learn and it is very early in the contest. no one should be hitting too strongly behind any candidate at this point bigger you do not know enough to make those judgments yet. guest: i think there rick perry, the republican, the country is starting to get an early and forceful dose of the opposition research the some of the democrats have already done on rick perry. maybe they got it from some other republicans as well. host: we get from google. -- guest: we get it from google. guest: there is a successful economic record in texas. host: at the bottom of a list from the straw poll, mitt romney getting 567 votes. this is of vote he won resoundingly and 2007. guest: as we were talking about

a few early minutes ago, the mitt romney balloon just collapsed a little bit of the last couple of days. for a ride in candidate to get more votes than a presumptive front runner in the race, it is astonishing. and yet that is the energy, that is the exuberance among conservative grassroots. you can just feel that they feel that they are ascendant. people attack them and say all kinds of things about them, but they are calling the tune in the republican party. and because the government, not only the president of the analyses and the democratic leadership and even the republican leadership, that has often appeared when you of $14 trillion debt and you are not addressing it, you have failed. we saw this in the 2010

elections. like rand paul, who defeated the favored fare haired canted it by the senate republican leader, mitch mcconnell. pat toomey and marco rubio, these are people who are willing to stand up and say we have to change the way that things are done here. otherwise we're going off a cliff. host: let me add another voice from "newsmakers" which airs after this program. our guest is senator bernie sanders. he talked about the debate within the democratic party. >> i think most americans believe that in fact the president and the democrats have compromised our too much and the republicans have given virtually nothing. you can correct me as our -- if i'm wrong, but i think john boehner said after this deficit- reduction package was passed, he got 98% of 41 apparent paul ryan

city gets 75% of we won. i did not hear democrats boasting. i think the record is that the democrats have compromise. but let me get back to president obama. when president obama ran for office, if what he said is vote for me, not john mccain, because among other reasons, john mccain wants to cut your social security benefits. what the president understands and has said and as administration as said, social security has not contributed one penny to our deficit. social security could pay every benefit for the next 25 years. anybody,d's name when including the president, talk about cutting social security when they fall we have to do is lift the cap on people making to under $50,000 or more, we could solve the problem for 75 years? if the president wants to do that, he is going back on a campaign promise and he is doing something with the republicans have always wanted to do. what bush talked about.

host: mark mellman. guest: he is a respected voice and made some good points. but president obama has reached out to compromise with republicans. he has cut spending, he is tried to work with republicans to solve the problems that the country is facing, the republicans have not reciprocated. their position is give us everything we want, and that is our negotiation. they would rather see the country going to the fall. there is a difference and the party's willingness to work together. democrats are willing to work together with republicans. the republicans had not reciprocated. that is one of the biggest problems in the country. host: tim pawlenty is out of the rise according to cnn. he is coming in third in the straw poll. we heard that it was a disappointing third.

guest: as has been the case over the year, that iowa straw poll has often winnowed the field very quickly. in 1999, when i was there, we saw people like dan quayle, the former vice president, pat buchanan, they were knocked out after the iowa straw poll. this is not surprising. as we talked about earlier, governor pawlenty, a very successful governor in minnesota, and was able to win is a conservative in a pretty center-left stage, just do not meet or exceed expectations. and that isn't what it is about early on. if you cannot do that, you're going to be gone. he did not cut it and his campaign team did not cut it. and there are a lot of good people around him, and i get me wrong, good, professional people working for tim pawlenty. but in the end, it is about the

candidate. if he does not resonate in not, and you have to go up against people who catch fire quickly, sometimes you get a short stick. and that is what happened. host: the race continues. is it a reality and looking what he needs to do in terms of fund raising an organization? guest: that must be the case. we just said of moments ago that he would find it extremely difficult to raise money and get attention. key to make the same point in grid that must have come home to governor pawlenty as he slept last night. what is surprising is that if you look back a few months ago, a poll of experts, including me, about what is going on politically, the republicans on that panel rated pawlenty as the person most likely to succeed. a lot of people in washington were very focused on governor pawlenty, body and all the right stuff to win this nomination.

is the first major casualty of the nominating season. newt gingrich is one who is now our going to make it in the series went to the starting gate. but a lot of people and washed and saw a lot of promise in pawlenty. he was not able to deliver on that promise. host: with him out of the race, who does this help why, if anyone? his organization, his campaign staff, his fund raisers? guest: it will be split. some support will gut the perry, some will go to romney. some may go to michele bachmann. at the moment, given who is in the race, probably between parry and romani. one footnote. i would not rule out governor pawlenty has someone you could see on the ticket, as a vice- presidential pick. he is a successful governor from a purple or even a blue state as we like to say here in d.c. he has a good track record.

he was on the short list for john mccain four years ago. host: keith appell mark mellman mark, rick perry entering the race. thank you both for being with us. a reminder for you can watch our coverage c-span.org online. , and our campaign coverage at campaign 2012. coming up next, the issue of homeland security and the threats here in the united states. getting more local efforts to find out who may be involved in potential acts of terrorism. later in the program, the 50th anniversary of the construction of the berlin wall. still ahead, as "washington journal" continues on the sunday morning, august 14. ♪iho

>> watch more videos of the candidates. see what political reporters are saying very track the latest political contributions with our website for campaign 2012. easy to use, it helps you navigate the political landscape with twitter feed and facebook updates from the campaigns. canada and biographies in the latest polling data, plus links to c-span medium partners in the early primary and caucus states, all at c-span.org2012. >> i am already preparing myself for the very small salary that i will be starting out with. >> you have to be disciplined enough to put aside your bias and report the truth. >> the reason why people like fox news and the movies because is it -- it is an experience. pp >> from the washington media conference at georgetown

university, aspiring high school journalists on where they get their news an intermission in today's multimedia environment tonight on "q&a." >> we can on american history tv, we will visit the office of the artist is the of the united states as the show's historic documents personal -- of a personal interest to him. leon panetta regards his years of working in the republican administration of the richard nixon, his resignation, and his switch to the democratic party. on the 50th anniversary of the ill-fated bay of pigs invasion, a critical look it u.s.-cuban relations in the 1950's and 1960's and the actions of the eisenhower and kennedy administrations. it the complete schedule at c- span.org/history. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome chad sweet. among his other titles, the former director of operations at the seattle -- at the cia.

i want to read what the president said as part of an eight-page document that the white house released earlier this month. as we approach the 10th anniversary of the september 11 attacks, we remember that al qaeda tried to spark a conflict to divide us as americans. we will not waver in the defense of our country or our community. it essentially focuses upon what local communities are doing to thwart out homegrown terrorism. can you elaborate? guest: they are building on the outreach to one of the most important stakeholders in the war against terror, essentially, the muslim-american community, as well as any other elements in our society that could be of assistance. a big part of what they are doing is focusing on community outreach, community engagement and under the bush administration, there was an

effort to do instant management teams. many agencies collaborated with local community leaders to ensure that if there was a terrorist incident, that there was no backlash against them in terms of civil liberties protections. and in ensuring that that community having any and valuable intelligence as to what may transpire that could lead to assist in the destruction of any plot, there was a channel of communication. now with the obama administration, they are building on that and having a formal policy of more rollouts of new initiatives in the community, with three broad areas. one is more engagement, building capacity at the state and local level, and try to counter directly the narrative or the propaganda of al qaeda. host: here is what the president said in january in the state of the union address. as extremist try to inspire acts

of violence within our borders -- what do you read into that? guest: it is exactly right. american muslims are american citizens, part of the fabric of american society. those of us involved with the war against terror, we would attest that all the work we do internationally, whether my old agency, the cia, or special forces who took down osama bin laden, that is what we would refer to as kinetic action. using military force or other types of covert action to disrupt and destroy the enemy. that is helpful. but in the long run, steve, that will not win this war. this is a war of ideas, and ultimately to win the war of ideas, the hearts and minds of

those misguided to embrace this bankrupt ideology of al qaeda and other extremist, we have to have a policy of engagement, particularly with our partners in the american muslim community. with the administration is doing is meant wisely building more capacity, more robust infrastructure, more initiatives to bring to bear the full whole government approach to partner with the american muslim community to be part of a solution in countering this threat. host: one of the most recent acts of terrorism was in norway. what are the lessons from this homegrown terrorists in norway killing norwegians? guest: there has been some criticism that it is to

milquetoast and some help equates the al qaeda threat with all other threats. that is an unfair criticism. if you look at the document and read the plan, they make it clear that al qaeda and violent islamic extremism is the premier threat today. it is important to remember that violent extremism takes many flavors. we want to be fighting all elements of that. if it takes on a different appearance, we have to be ready to deal with that. if we think about our own experience in this country, with the exception of 9/11, the next highest casualties of any domestic terrorism event was the oklahoma city bombing. that was also carried out by a non-muslim. it is important that we remember

that violent extremists and takes on many forms. we have to have a strategy to deal with that. host: nadal hassan was involved in the fort hood incident. guest: when we look at this, there is no question that violent islamic extremism is the current preeminent threat against the united states. in the early stage of the obama administration reaction to this, there was perhaps an overly politically correct approach in trying to isolate it s and isolated event and not linked it to a broader threat. we learned later that he had extensive dialogue with one of the leaders of the al qaeda

movement. when we look at the other situations, it is important not to be too politically correct and not call a spade a spade. when we have threats brought in a false police near of islam -- false religious veneer of islam, we have to address it. we have to embrace our partners in the american muslim community to discredit what these individuals have done to essentially defame islam. host: our guest is chad sweet. he has worked in the private sector and at the cia. what else do you bring to the table in terms of your

experience? guest: by any senior fellow at the center for naval analysis. i have worked with a not-for- profit dedicated to increasing strategy's like what has been ruled out by the obama administration, engagement to create alternative ideological responses to this violent islamic extremist threat. host: this headline says that the white house plan to fight terror is light on new ideas. the plan fails to name a single point of coordination for all the various initiatives of the federal, state, and local level. guest: that is a fair criticism. it has taken the obama administration to get the strategy out. it is not something that should have taken this long. i commend them for having

brought people on board and embracing people with experience. it has taken a while to get out. they have not identified the lead federal agency. there is no clarification of what kind of resources or dollars will be put behind it. without that clarity, some of those criticisms are fair. we should give them an opportunity to put forward the types of resources that would be applied as well as who would be the lead federal agency. host: tony joins us from new jersey on the line for democrats. caller: i would like to say something about this homegrown terrorism thing. we have always had nuts shooting up places like mcdonald's. nidal hasan at fort hood fits

into that category. 9/11 is different. they admitted they did not have any evidence against osama bin laden. if they did, he would have been tried in absentia. i think everyone has problems with how his body was disposed of and how little we were shown about it. there were three collapsed buildings on 9/11. building seven went down at free-fall acceleration. i am and mechanical engineer. that can only happen with all of the structural support removed from the building. the building was enormous. it was 75% of the area of the

empire state building. that has not been explained. they admit to the freefall but do not give in to the implications. host: what about that point? we have heard this before. guest: the caller is making the point that this was a horrific attack on 9/11. it does seem hard to believe how much damage was inflicted. bear in mind that when you look at this report from the obama administration, it addresses the myths about terrorists. one of them is that they are an educated. one of the leaders was in engineer. he spoke german and other languages. he was able to be successful in what was one of the most horrific terrorist plots ever carried off. i know there has been a lot of debate over the structural damage to buildings.

if you look at what they did, it was very well fought through from an engineering perspective. he had designs of the building. he made calculations on what kind of force would be needed to take down the towers. they did something that was very disturbing and innovative. it is the signature of al qaeda. they take critical infrastructure can turn it against us. old-style terrorists would try to smuggle a gun onto a plane to hijack it. al qaeda is a new generation of terrorists who say to make the airplane the weapon. when you look at the flight patterns after liftoff, they purposely chose wide-bodied aircraft with large amounts of fuel. they have lived off and went off course swiftly to maximize the amount of fuel that would be

left in the engines at the time of impact. i know it is hard to believe that something this horrific could have happened. the main thing to focus on is less on conspiracy theories, acknowledge the fact it did happen, and remember a small amounts of individuals can inflict large amounts of casualties on america. we need to have strategies to engage with communities. the federal government is not capable of being in every community. we do not want them to be in every community. state and local with their stakeholders can do the best job of monitoring these types of threats. host: the report issued by the white house is about preventing domestic terrorism. our guest is chad sweet, a managing partner of the chertoff group.

he is part of the series on c- span about the events of september 11. we will be live on september 11 with memorial services and ceremonies. david joins us from new hampshire on the independents line. caller: high want to know what he thinks about the white supremacists in this country. i think they are at least as dangerous as the islamic fundamentalists. there may be a lot more white fundamentalists in this country than there are muslim fundamentalists. it frightens me some of the stuff these people do. i have read their publications.

they are dangerous people. they do not like our president. racism in this country is dying. they may take a desperate last stand or something. they are very dangerous. timothy mcveigh had a lot affiliations with neo-nazi organizations. guest: you make a very important point. let's not forget some of the worst terrorist attacks committed inside the united states have been carried out by christians and non-muslims. we only need to think of timothy mcveigh and oklahoma city. we just saw the horrific acts in norway. i do not want to speak to any particular religion. i happen to be christian.

i would hope no one would view the tax of some -- the acts of some individuals that claim to be christian -- the two major commitments are to love god and love your neighbor as yourself. it is disturbing to see how religion can be distorted and used to kill other people when the religion itself would prohibit that. it is a reminder as to why this strategy makes the priority focusing on countering the violent islamic extremist threat in a way that allows us to detect and disrupt other types of extremist threats represented

by other groups. host: why has it taken so long to get this report about? many would regard it as fundamental in terms of trying to track down potential threats at home against the u.s. guest: that is a fair criticism. the obama administration has a lot on its plate. they are dealing with the global economic crisis. we saw this with cyber security. the president announced they would move out on that. it took the months to get back in place. finally they did. this strategy is desperately needed. it is building on past successes. i think it is a fair criticism to say it should have come out before now. it is important to remember this administration is doing a number of things aggressively. they did take down osama bin

laden. they did disrupt and number of attempted attacks on u.s. soil. let's not forget about the capture of the times where bombing that happened 56 hours after the actual incident. they are doing a very good job. in baseball terms, to about 300 is good in baseball. since 9/11 with the exception of the attacks at fort hood and the unfortunate death of the arkansas recruiter, there have been no other attacks on the united states. there have been over 20,000 innocent men, women, and children killed by terrorism

around the world. it has been in undeveloped areas and also in developed cities like madrid and london. there have only been a few on our soil. it may have been late in coming out, but the system is not broken. it is largely working. we need to continue to support their efforts in doing this kind of important community engagement. host: our guest is a veteran of the cia and the department of homeless security. welcome to the conversation. caller: you commented on this when the interview first began. this has been an ongoing thing. when we define islamic jihadists, they take islam and

use violence and aggression and oppression as a means to advance their political and social agenda against enemies they perceive as real. we call them radicals and extremists. they have taken what is a "peaceful religion" and have turned it into something it is not. with my limited grasp of the topic, they are the true believers. they really do as spells -- espouse what islam has been for 1300 years. jefferson had to send the navy to the barbary coast to deal with islamic parents.

the pirates -- jefferson had to 70 feet -- jefferson had to send the navy to the barbary coast to deal with the islamic parents -- pirates. the ones that are espousing the violent approach to islam are really doing what islam teaches. guest: i think a couple of things. the point he made is very important about the fact that there are over 1 billion moslems on the planet. the vast majority never engage in this kind of activity. this is an extreme element. it is extremely small.

that when i was in office, we worked with muslim leaders who appreciate being called mainstream muslims and not moderate muslims. the point you are making is that there are those who assert that islam is inherently violent and that those who follow it are fulfilling that versus those who have moderated or interpreted it. i would respectfully disagree with that. there are elements within the bible that would suggest christianity might be a violent religion. when you look at the overall message of christ, it is clear

it renounces that kind of violence. "true islam" is not moderate. it is mainstream. those who are passionate about it believe fundamentally that it does not call for that kind of violence. i would say to you that the minority that does try to distort it and make it violent, there are a number of brave islamic leaders who have renounced this. a number of leaders are speaking out here and abroad. one of my former colleagues who is a former state department official who is now an executive at google just hold a

summit against violent extremism. i would encourage you to go online and take a look at that. a number of extremists whether they come out of christianity, islam, or neo-nazis have a common element about how they were recruited. host: this message says that islam does not teach that any more than the old testament. a couple other people are koran.ng about the guest: we probably need more community engagement on educating about islam itself. we have a fantastic american muslim community.

they have a higher average income than non-muslims. american muslims have done very well here. they are important part of the fabric. where i grew up in texas, we were never taught about the tenets of islam. we need to teach islam so people have a cultural understanding of it. we're now in the month of ramadan. in the muslim faith, you break your fast at the end of the day and have food with others. i would encourage people to reach out to muslims and see if you might join them in that. it is happening in the month of august. it is a fantastic way to understand each other's religion to help dismiss some of the understood --

misunderstandings. host: part of the strategy is to leverage existing models. what is new in the document? how much of it is just reiterating what is already in place? guest: there are elements of is that are not new. there is an important continuity between the bush and obama administrations on a number of counter-terrorism policies. what makes this unique is that it is the first to explicitly identify having community engagement to counter ideologically inspired violent extremism. that is where they have broken new ground. it is important to acknowledge that. the team they had built to address this includes powerful

people. these are gentlemen who really know this incredibly well and can work effectively with the fbi and others to bring this to reality. there are aspects of the plan -- when the virginia tech shooting premier, the world's agency in identifying shudras before an incident, they worked in collaboration with the department of education in the bush administration to come up with a school safety program. that is exactly what the obama administration is talking about, building on the pre- existing programs. some are designed to address school bullying and shootings. those same techniques can be applied to identify potential

recruits being targeted for a violent islamic extremism. i can be reached online. i would encourage them to look at the william foundation -- quilliam foundation, where i am a director. in local communities, there is an opportunity to embrace those citizens who may be muslim. if they see something, they should say something. reach out to the fbi at fbi.gov. host: chad sweet is the former director of operations of the cia.

guest: i worked in the directorate of operations. i was not the director of operations. host: we have breaking news. tim pawlenty is officially dropping out of the presidential race. the conference call took place earlier today with supporters is where he made the announcement. he is also appearing on abc's "this week." if there are other events with him this week, we will bring those to you. here is a look at many topics and guests on the sunday morning programs. >> michele bachmann appeared on every talk show today. c-span the heirs of five sunday talk shows. -- reairs all five sunday talk

shows. at 1:00, "this week" reairs talking with the presidential candidates. fox news sunday reairs at 2:00 p.m. with an interview with michele bachmann. of course state of the union." finally at 4:00 , it is "face the nation" from cbs. bob schieffer has another interview with michele bachmann. the five network tv talk shows are brought to you as a public service by the networks and c- span.

reairs begin at noon eastern with "meet the press." you can listen to them all on c- span radio. it is downloadable as and iphone app. you can also listen to them at c-span.org. >> watched more video of the candidates. hear what the political reporters are saying and track political contributions with the c-span website for campaign 2012. it helps you to navigate the political landscape with updates from the campaigns and the

latest polling data. it is all that c-span.org -- it is all at c- span.org/campaign2012. >> as an aspiring journalist, i am already preparing for the small salary and will receive. >> it is important to report the truth. >> people love fox news and movies because it is an emotional experience. >> from the journalism and media conference, aspiring high-school journalists on ethics and where they get their news and information in today's multimedia environment. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we're focusing on the 50th anniversary of the construction of the berlin wall.

angela stent is a professor at georgetown university and an expert on the topic. how did the wall, about and how quickly? guest: the planning had been going on for some time. berlin was the achilles heel of the soviet empire. it was the one place where east germans could get on the train and go to west berlin to leave the country. 2000 people were leaving a day before the bill to. the east german leader began to .lan it the actual plan was put into operation in july. it was constructed overnight. people went to bed on august 12. they look up sunday the 13th and there was a wall literally dividing the streets in east berlin.

host: this is a photograph courtesy of "time" magazine. you can see the east german soldiers looking at their western counterparts. guest: it was a shock for people to wake up and realize the country was going to imprison its own people. they did not build the wall to keep out foreign enemies, but to keep their people from leaving. it probably would have collapsed if they have not done it. nobody wanted to stay there. back in 1990, we had a chance to sit down and talk with an offer about the wall. this is a portion of our interview available online as part of the c-span video library. >> i have someone directly

involved detail this for me. excuse it is the only word that occurs to me. -- explicit -- exquisite is the only word that occurs to me. everything was done in handwriting or by oral communication. only about 10 people in the whole country had any idea about what was going on. cabinet members did not know. they talked about "exercises." the unit commanders did not find out what their mission was until literally midnight on that day saturday to sunday. they were told at 3 or 4:00 in

the morning and they were at their posts. the secrecy was beyond belief. it should also be said that sunday, they did not put up the wall. they just sealed the border. host: this is one of the photographs of the construction of the wall and how it was put up overnight and how it changed over the years. guest: it was very rudimentary in the beginning. the materials were smuggled in under great secrecy to begin. it became a wall around the whole country. there were orders to shoot to kill anyone who tried to escape. 171 people died in those 20 years trying to get out of east berlin into west berlin. host: it is the 50th anniversary

of the berlin wall. it was built literally overnight. the border was sealed with barbed wire. the second wall was built in june of 1962. the concrete wall was added in 1965. the final wall was constructed in 1975. by 1989, the wall included 45,000 concrete blocks, 302 watchtowers. a number of people died trying to flee east germany. that number is put at 1065 people. the wall came down in november of 1989. what are the lessons? guest: i think the lessons are that it is very hard to prison population. i think the second lesson is

that for economic reasons, they had to open up. that meant east germans could watch west german tv. in 1972, the can see news that was very different from what they were shown. they could see commercials. they were told they lived much better than the worst germans -- west germans, but they concede they did not with the commercials. they could watch "dallas" and see the fantasy world of the united states. when you open that up, it is harder to keep people down. the other lesson was that once east germany opened up to the west german church, they needed the churches to come in. they allowed the west german churches to pay for social services.

in the end, the churches became the focus -- the focal point of non-violent resistance. it really is very hard to keep people in prison like that. host: angela merkel grew up in east germany and is now the german chancellor. you can send us a tweet or e- mail as we look back of the lessons of the berlin wall. this is the 50th anniversary of the wall. it literally happened overnight. it is said that there was a connection between the jfk blunder in the berlin wall. guest: his column is very critical of jfk. others have come out recently

and criticized him. he came in with very little experience in foreign policy. he did have a horrible meeting in may of 1961 when mr. kravchuk with the soviet leader. the soviets had to calculate the western response to this. would they take military action? they calculated that they would not respond. from the u.s. point of view, the most important thing was the fact that we occupied west berlin with our allies. it was only 16 years after the ii.of world enwar i think the kennedy administration realized they could have created another war if they tried to prevent the wall from being constructed. host: adam joins us from temple,

texas, on the line for democrats. caller: i know you cannot in prisoner population for too long. i wonder if the guest could contrast what happened in east germany with what is happening in north korea. they have been able to imprison their population. effectively. is that situation going to change? guest: when the wall came down, and would notice a lot of south koreans coming to the conferences. they certainly made the analogy. because you did have the united states and france occupying with a greater openness to the west, that enabled the wall to come down. in north korea, they have managed to hermetically seal

the population. they do not have neighbors that wanted to change. the chinese do not want it to change. the rest of the neighbors are quite happy to have the situation more stable. they have managed to survive. they're willing to have their own population starve as they spend money buying weapons or enriching themselves. in east germany, they were not willing to do that. that is a fundamental difference as well. host: we traveled to germany when the wall was coming down and then went back in the 1990's. jill is joining us on the republican line from michigan -- joe is joining us on the republican line from michigan. caller: how is it going? host: we will move on to another point. let me go back to this

interview from 1990. one of the questions was about the soviets and why they needed to construct the wall. that is part of the interview. >> that was the name of the game, keep the east germans at home in prison to keep them from running away. they were doing that at a tremendous clip. they're running at the rate of 2000 per day. there were 300,000 people that went from east to west. some of the best and brightest were among them. the doctors, nurses, engineers. the wall went up to seal the border. it had to be sealed to keep people at home and keep them from running off. host: what is your reaction to

his point of view? guest: he is quite right. when they start of this draconian drive, people started to leave east germany. it was the best and brightest that were voting with their feet . they were losing the younger population. the joke in 1989 was about who would turn off the lights. they have to keep those people there or the state would have collapsed. they would not have had the man and woman power for the factory or anything else. host: our guest is the author of a number of books including some about russia. we're joined by a professor at

george washington university. thank you very much for adding your perspective to all of this. let me ask you about the lessons of the berlin wall. guest: the lessons being drawn in germany are that one must not take for granted democracy and that the freedoms we have under democracy. the germans are reminding the young people they need to fight for these democratic freedoms every day. this was one of the big messages yesterday here in berlin at the official ceremonies of the 50th anniversary of the building of the wall. the other lesson germans are drawing from this is that the

walls can come down peacefully. people should have the courage and optimism to bring down all sorts of walls all over the world, whether they are physical or walls in the mind. host: there is a new generation of germans and europeans who may not remember the wall. it came down in 1989. how is it being depicted in germany and europe? guest: on this 50th anniversary, there have been all sorts of personal stories being told. it is in the newspapers, on tv, on the radio, particularly by east germans who suffered, were put in prison for trying to escape, or people who had a loved one who tried to escape but was instead shot and killed

because of the shoot-to-kill order of the border. all of these very personal stories are coming out now in a very public way. that is the best way to teach young germans what this east german communist regime was like and what the wall was like. the germans have done much more to keep this history alive, particularly in berlin. there is now an official berlin wall memorial with authentic pieces of the wall that shows the whole former death strip and shows particular places where people built tunnels under the wall, people who were killed of the wall. there is a window of commemoration with pictures of

documented east germans who tried to escape and were killed. there is a much greater effort now being made on the part of germans to show their children and grandchildren just what this berlin wall was all about. that is particularly important because the berlin wall was a german initiative. i do not know if you have talked about that today. the soviets resisted building the wall for eight years. it was the east german regime who wanted to seal the border to prevent their population from leaving. soviet leaders refused for eight years saying they would look terrible and could not possibly seal the border because they will look terrible. they said to find another way to keep people from leaving the country. the east german leader was a hard-line stalinist and had no

interest in listening his control on power -- loosening his controls on power. he finally succeeded in having the soviets give and and finally allow the border to be sealed. host: she teaches history and international affairs. thank you very much for being with us. we appreciate your perspective. guest: i think hope said something very important. you go to berlin today and have a beautiful, thriving city. you would barely ever know there was a wall there. things look so different. i remember the first time i went there in 1968, it was pretty awful.

the wall was very present. it is important to build the museum and teach young people what it was really like. otherwise, east germany will fade away as a speck in the greater history of humankind. the lessons of what it means to fight your rights and democracy is very important. host: the next call is from rhode island. caller: you gave that professor a lot of time, maybe because she is part of the inner circle. host: we invited her to come on and share a perspective on how young people are remembering the wall. caller: ok, let me talk. there are things that are not spoken about. franklin roosevelt gave aid to joseph stalin.

nazi germany attempted to destroy the soviet union. they would have succeeded if we did not help the soviet union with our shipments. to me, this was an awful event. in the roosevelt administration, there was an outright communist and soviet spy. these things are not really mentioned either. the roosevelt administration had communists all over. if germany prevailed in that struggle, i do not think there would have been a d-day. their army was the best of all time. there probably would have been a settlement because the navy would not have to reach to get to the united states. maybe the world could have been worse.

it could have been better. a vanquished soviet union and a lot earlier would not have been so bad. guest: the united states wanted to defeat hitler. maybe the caller thinks it would be fine if the germans to conquer the world. i would not be here if it had happened. i think it is important to have the wartime alliance. host: angela stent is with us here in washington. allen is joining us from washington. caller: it is interesting to go back and look at the history of the berlin wall. we have a wall that exists and continues to be built today. it is funded in part by the united states. that wall is in occupied palestine. the purpose of that wall is not to keep people trapped inside the country but to drive them up side of their country.

the israelis will say it is to prevent terrorism. if that was the case, they would have built on their border to prevent people from coming into their country. instead, they continue to build it on palestinian land. there is tremendous suffering. there are towns in palestine that are completely encircled. people have won access gate with a soldier standing there. that is their only means of getting into and out of their town to go to school and work and so on. host: is there a parallel? guest: i do not think so. host: in one of the photographs from "time" magazine, you can see a teenager holding a younger child outside of the wall. the wall literally came up

overnight 50 years ago today. john joins us from new york city. caller: it is an interesting discussion. my regional point was how successful the integration of east germany has been. i was shocked by the previous two collars and the parallels they drew that had nothing to do with the berlin wall. it shows there are some ugly people still out there. i would really like to know how ms. stent feels east germany has been integrated and if there are any other parallels today. guest: thank you very much. it is a very important question.

the german government spent about $3 trillion integrating east germany into west germany. even though they were all germans and had a common history, it was much more different -- difficult economically and psychologically. the country had only existed for 40 years, but people grew up with a different idea of the relationship between the state and the people. europe is suffering any way from severe economic crisis. in the eastern part of germany, the unemployment level is higher. people are not doing as well as in the western part of germany. the good news is for the younger betterneration, they are much integrated and their prospects are much better. the older generation of people who were trained and served most

of their working life in the gdr have had a more difficult time. there is still a wall in the minds of many people. time will eventually take care of that. in some ways, it has been more difficult for east germans than for poles to adapt to the post- communist society even though they had west german cousins who financed the integration of east and west. host: anna is calling from ohio on the democrats' line. caller: i would like to make a comment on mr. sweet's discussion. i completely endorse what allen

said about the wall israel has erected to keep palestinians in an open air prison. this is an absolute comparison. it is astonishing the professor cannot see that. it is as plain as concrete and barbed wire walls in front of your face. israel has killed far more people than germany did. host: let me get a response to that. guest: the israelis built a wall because they were subject constantly to terrorist attacks and people lobbing attacks of the population. since they built a wall, the numbers have gone down. they did it for their own national security. host: do you want to follow up? caller: absolutely.

israel is building jewish settlements in occupied territory. it is a violation of international law that israel knows very well. israel received the document in 1967 telling them is against the law to build in occupied territory. they disregard international law. host: we go to ronald joining us from mount vernon, n.y. caller: the berlin wall was brought down by the solidarity walensa. likek

the wall in the nine states is being built so he cannot carry out his campaign promises. thank you and congratulations to c-span. guest: policy the berlin wall was brought down by the east german population themselves. -- i would say the berlin wall was brought down by the east german population themselves. in 1989, they peacefully assembled out the wall -- at the wall and asked the guards politely to open the gates. the only had instructions of what to do if people were trying to escape. one of them kept calling his superiors and asking what to do. there were thousands of people who wanted him to open the wall. the leaders said they did not know what to do because they did not have ordered. the call the soviet union. no one picked up the phone because of the time difference

and it was the middle of the night. it was brought down of a courageous act of the east german population themselves. gorbachev told the east germans they would not help if they tried to use force. gorbachev said if they wanted to use force to disperse peaceful populations they were on their own. i think we need to give the east germans great credit in this. host: let's show you the map of what it looked like between east and west germany and how it was divided. rick is joining us from pennsylvania. go ahead. caller: there is a great interview on youtube about the wall. as far as it being a rationale

for the wall in palestine, who attacked who first? israel attacked palestine first. we attacked palestine first. host: drew from panama city is on the independents' line. caller: a wanted to say that i wish people would not go off topic and talk about the israeli thing. they are supposed to be talking about the wall in germany. i wanted to ask -- i have read many germans in the west think differently than the germans on the opposite side. even though it is now germany, long for the old ways.

host: it is a united germany? guest: it is maybe 80% united. there are some people in germany who do have some nostalgia for the old system. they lived in a complete welfare state. they did not have to work that hard. they had guaranteed pensions and jobs that you do not have any capitalist society. a lot of the artists in east germany had a rather elevated life there. that is true in other communist countries. in a capitalist germany, if you want to be a writer or artist, you have to work hard and compete. the state does not give you the kind of recognition and support that they have in the old system. there are some people who have

missed out for it. i think that phenomenon will decline the further we go away from east germany and as the memories fade. host: angeles we is a professor at georgetown university -- is a georgetown professor and author of numerous books. there is the announcement at tim pawlenty is dropping out of the race. he made it official on "this week." he said the pathway for does not exist for the campaign. he said he does believe we will have a good candidate to beat barack obama. tim pawlenty is officially dropping out of the race after dropping out of the race after