from pratt to digital and you have to think differently about your instruction materials, how do assessments, and what your staffing looks like. it is complicated enough that maybe you have to break that shift into two or three phrases -- phases. the fact that the total cost of ownership has ... below $200 per year per student for an access device. it is less expensive than buying a backpack full of books. we have tried to make the case today that if you are thought about it, you can create a longer day and a longer year and a better working environment for teachers and more support systems for kids. in the next few years, we can do

away with the digital divide. it will take courage and thoughtful leadership state-by- state and city by city to make it happen. >> my wife and i bought an e- reader 4 $300 and now it is less. the prices are dropping rapidly. we have to now have access to the internet as well. i am assuming that almost every community college, you have a high abbreviation rate. -- a high a remediation rate. with digital application, it seems to me that you can move students through remediation at the rate they can progress rather than having an impact --

in class for a fixed amount of time. instead of them getting to where they need to be in one month, they don't have to sit and wait in a traditional class and to move ahead some students need more time. what i am suggesting is that with technology in the the college system we have a much better ability to move students ahead at their rate that they can advance, a competency-based advancements and move them up to the level they can to that community college for. >> you are absolutely right and we are looking at this two ways. we almost immediately after achieving the dream in community college for it we started out looking at how we improved and developmentally. 80% of our students are taking

more than one class. there is a group of us that said nobody should enter meeting developmental lit given the hard statistics. what are we doing to get them ready before they get there so that is not an issue? we have a dual strategy around that. our biggest challenge is not our students or their readiness. is our teachers. it is our instructors and they are reluctant to look at the new role that have to play and new kinds of skills. we have not had a public policy conversation about this changing role that is emerging and shifting every day as a result of the kind of tools that are being made available from technology. >> we agree. [laughter] digital learning benefits the students and teachers. we need to have a learning experience for both.

it also calls on colleges and teacher education and preparation programs. i think it's a learning is extremely powerful and professional development. it is more of a sustained professional enhancement. teachers will be able to do that enhancement with their peers as opposed to what some of you call a drive-by pd. i always love the opening day of school and there are 300 teachers jammed into a jam and i have to speak to them and they are asleep. this is about quality learning experience for students and teachers. i will and as i began. it is about students and teachers. both have -- digital learning as

an integral role in bringing them together and getting the maximum learning outcomes for both. >> i am from prince george's community college. i am interested -- we see more work toward blended education with technology and the k-12 environment. i am interested in any thoughts or feedback on recent legislation forced upon higher education to define our credit and it looked like they wanted to define it where an innovative lending techniques might not really count as actual instruction. there was an hour to hour requirement for instruction which sounded like a push by legislature to have direct instruction. what about a tax upon online

instruction? how we balance this between the desire that we want to have high-quality and people recognize the need for technology and the importance but yet there is still an attack on its legitimacy particularly in higher education. there is a different perception between technology may be in the higher education verses in the elementary. >> you are actually way ahead of us in k-12. you're the governor talk about governor bush. i want to underscore the role he has played here. one year ago, he said this is moving very quickly. he said his sense is that state policy makers don't have a road map. i think they need a top-10 road map. i described the data quality program. he said there are 27 new

governors coming in and we have to be done in 100 days. the insight and speed and urgency that he brought to this task to try to lay out a policy framework to avoid a really dumb policies you are describing -- this is not thoughtful public policy. it is standing in the way of anything we have described here as possible. we see a lot of it in k-12. if you look at the digital find agnow.com, you'll bunch of very specific almost redundant language. it is because each of the bullets under each of those elements go after stupid barriers that exist that try to stop learning at a county or district boundary.

digital learn and now is an effort to create a policy framework that is thoughtful about this shift going forward. we very well may need another form for community colleges or extend that to k-14. it is the leadership of the two governors that are trying to create a framework for this revolution. that's why i think the work is so terribly important. we appreciate your concerns and we are working hard in k-12 to make this happen and would certainly lend support -- >> we said in k-12 that higher education has this knocked out

by boat and ipad the other day. how many of you when you bought your device ask the salesperson -- asked by the salesperson that the work on it for 180 days. i doubt it. why is it that we measure our children for their credit nowadays. up until the 25 years ago, why do we measure our children as to whether or not they have 180 days in class? what technology permits us to do is a much better measure to adapt student learning so they can advance that their pace.

i hope this will test some of the policies that exists. if the state you are in requires that only an on line -- that the teacher that maybe teaching on line has to be certified within that state, that limits us, doesn't it? that is like ordering a book online from barnes and noble but i have to go to the local bookstore to pick it up. what are the policies that no longer apply? there is a frustration of us being enabled via the internet. >> we are at the end of our time for our section of the program and welcome me in thanking -- [applause] >> thank you very much and thanks to all of you for being here.

i want to comment on how really pleased we are to be able to join pdk and gallup in what has been a long and distinguished record around a poll. getting the higher education component is something we are excited about. we hope this will continue. i should take a few moments before inviting jamie and tony to explain why we were interested in doing this and why we see this as something so critical to our work in increasing access in post- secondary education. there is this growing national awareness of the need for increasing higher education attainment in the united states. you see this reflected starting with lumina's : call for

increasing the proportion of americans who hold high quality post-secondary credentials to 60% by 2012 very the current u.s. rate is around 40% right now to that as a dramatic increase that we are calling for. we have seen a great deal of support for this for any of the issue and this effort to increase attainment. it is reflected in the president's goal for making the united states the best educated country in the world, also measured in terms of higher education at a rate of 60% by 2020. one colleague has documented the fact that about 60% of u.s. jobs will require some college by the year 2018. if you think 2025 is audacious,

we don't have that long to get to 60%. all this effort is reflected in the number of states, governors, higher education associations, higher education institutions are all increasing their focus on increasing the number of students who go to college but even more importantly to complete college and finish with a college degree or credential is something i think is driving a lot of our work and a lot of the national discussion around higher education. along comes the question -- are we getting out ahead of the american people? is this something that is too much of an inside baseball kind of discussion? are we talking to ourselves about the value of education and is not really understood by the public? how does the public see these issues? do they also see the shift taking place? do they believe there is a need for an awareness of this desire

that many of us are expressing to increase higher education attainment and increase the number of people who go to college? if so, what do they see behind it? what is driving this concern and this issue? we felt having some answers to those questions would be very useful to us but we thought would be useful to the broad community of educators, policy makers, and others who are concerned about the same set of issues. that is what we zeroed in on in this section of the ball and we found results which we think are very interesting which i am pleased to have this chance to share with you. please indicate your agreement

with each of the following statements -- the question is -- -- the statement is -- having a college degree is essential for getting a good job in this country. that word "essential" is important. what is the answer? those that strongly agree with that statement are now 69% of the public. 69% of americans believe that having a college degree is essential for getting a good job in this country. that is a very remarkable finding. we think it reflects this great shift that is taking place that reflects the emergence of a knowledge economy, the fact that most jobs in this country are seeing an increase in the skill

and knowledge requirement attached with those jobs and across all occupations. that seems to be something that many americans, most americans are very aware of and feel it is tied to higher education and the need for a college degree. there is another set of questions that asks -- is a college degree or occupational certificate, which is an important distinction, some recognition beyond high school of confidence of scale in an occupation or college degree -- is it somewhat important for financial security in the future? 95% agreed or someone agreed with that statement. there's a very strong perception that this is in fact both necessary for financial security as well as for getting and keeping a good job. in your opinion, which one of the following is the main reason why students get education

beyond high school? you were asked to pick one . this may or may not surprise you. i would suggest that surprises some people to see this resolved. there are the results. to our more money, a 53%, to get a good job, 33%. those of the top two reasons why people believe americans believe that people go to college. become a well-rounded person and learn more about the world -- not that those are not important -- but you if you ask what the main reason is, it is to get a good job and earn more money. now, i five-point scale, what is your level of agreement with the following statements? people have a college degree

have a good chance of finding a quality job. strongly agree or agree is roughly about 47%. they believe that people have a good chance of finding a quality job. i think we could talk at length about this and whether this is a surprising finding or not. i would suggest that in today's economy with all the reporting about the difficulty of getting a job and college graduates entering the labour market and not being able to find jobs, all of this concern, that 47% believing that having a college degree gives you a good chance of finding a quality job and only 10% really disagree with that statement is in some ways in this economy a remarkable finding. i was somewhat surprised to see that the negatives on that were as low as they were.

even in this economy, even in this extremely difficult job market, people still seem to believe that having a college degree is the best form of insurance, the best preparation you can have to be able to go into employment markets and go into the job market and the work force and get a good job. finally, this is the last slide before discussing this -- on a five-point scale -- college graduates in this country are well-prepared for success in the work force. people believe that college is the key to getting a good job and making money and having financial security. only about 40%, 39% strongly agree or agree with this statement that college graduates in this country are well- prepared for success in the work force.

most people are neutral on that question and one out of five actually disagree with that statement. if there is an area where we really need to pay attention to, it is this. if americans believe that college is essential for success but they are concerned about whether people who have college degrees and come out of college are in fact well- prepared to be successful, i think we have some issues we need to think about and we need to talk about. this gives you a flavor of the results. we are excited to be a part of this and excited to have this and more information which i encourage you to delve into and look at about this. i want to share these particular findings with you. let me invite jamie and tony on

the stage. i won't give you a lengthy introduction that these are two very respected and recognized experts in this field. i happen to work for jamie so you can take that with a grain of salt. [laughter] i have no reason to say that about the tony so it must be true. take it from me, these people know what they are talking about. we would like to encourage them to talk about these findings particularly as it relates to what this changing and increasingly important relationship is between higher education, education beyond high school, and the work force and the economy. i will turn over to jamie. >> let me thank our hosted george washington university as well as our colleagues aspdk for

their efforts here and the folks at pdk for their trail blazing work over many years. i did not know it was 43 years but i follow this through most of my professional career. this work very much motivated us to gain a better understanding of what is happening in terms of public perception at the higher education level. building on what the dwayne talked about is that as important as it is to focus on fixing our schools and improving our k-12 system, it is absolutely essential and necessary for economic and social future as a country. all that is about getting students to the starting line. we have not succeeded in our task until the vast majority of those students achieve some sort of post secondary credentials.

i think this public perception survey shows overwhelmingly is that the perception that is reality. the public poll shows that the public believes that in order to get a job you need to have some kind of post secondary education and they are right. if you look at the unemployment data, the unemployment rates are dramatically higher for people with no post secondary education compared to those with. at the height of the recession, the unemployment rate for people with high school credentials compared to those with college credentials was more than 2 to 1. the public believes that in order to get a high-quality job, you have to be able to have some kind of post secondary education. they are correct. the vast majority of the jobs being created in our economy require post secondary education. about 2/3 of all the jobs being

created requires post secondary or will require post secondary education within a decade. the public understands that the importance of getting a good quality education is critical. one of the important outcomes you get from a college education is to make more money. that should not be the only goal. all these things that ranks fairly low and the perception paul about quality of life, being able to think critically, those are all important things but being able to make more money is an important factor and one that we should not undervalued. what we see from the data is that the labor market, employers, are valuing people with college degrees at an increasing level. the labor market is telling us that the premium of having a college credential as compared to having a high school credential is increasing.

in the last decade, the wage premium for those with a bachelor's degree compared to those with a high-school credential has increased from about 75% to 84%. the public is right. their perceptions match the reality of what is happening in terms of the higher education system. the interesting subset is the question about the value of a college education. it is the cost of paying higher education which is high and from a current in, or current expenditure basis, it has become very burdensome for people who have a plan to pay for the increasing cost of college. that is a real challenge to higher education and i think represents one of the biggest threats to our long-term success in this country which is getting a handle on the high cost of actually delivering higher education. one of the things that is worrying the public in terms of

what is happening in higher education is the question about the relevance of what they are getting out of the higher education system in terms of them being able to be successful and the work force. only about half of the public is fully sold in the fact that the quality of the education they will get from higher education will match with a need to be successful and the work force. i think that represents a significant challenge to higher education to reinvent itself and realign and reinvent the business model in ways that will have a dramatic difference in terms of improving the outcomes of what we produce and higher education. those outcomes have to overwhelmingly be about learning. it is the learning that drives the quality of the education and it is the learning that the employers are saying they need in order to fill those high- quality jobs they need for their companies to be successful. and the current environment, getting a college education is

not nice -- it is necessary. the public understands that. to put it more bluntly -- going beyond the data and in my own words -- if you get a high- quality hot college degree, there is a good chance you'll be in the middle class and the more successful. to put it more harshly, if you don't have a college degree, there is a high chance you will be poor. >> jamie and others have already said everything i would like to say. and everything i think is important in this opinion poll. i have not said yet so i will take my turn. what is most striking to me is one of the things that duane said and that is in spite of the pessimism where other polls show deep pessimism on the part of the american public, pessimism that is in some cases well-

founded, the people who forecast the economy and say we will get increases in unemployment from 9.1%-9.3% until the end of the year and will probably stay at 9% throughout 2012 which is bad news at the white house. that will only dip below 9% in 2013. in spite of what has been a very long and deep recession, the longest and deepest truly since the great depression. the recession has had a huge impact on this economy. people believe is necessary to get some kind of post secondary education and training in order to be successful in the united states. that is true.

in 1973, for instance, we had almost 70% of the jobs appeared to require nothing -- nothing less than high school. virtually all of those people were in the middle class if you measure the middle class, you have to do it arbitrarily. there is no official number but let's say it is between $35,000 and $85,000. virtually all of those people were in the middle class back then. that 70% number goes down around 30%. that includes many of the people who started out in jobs that did not require college 30, 40 years ago but do require a college now which is essentially the way this process works. what is underneath all this is something that started in the 1980's after the 80-81

recession for people to remember that it was the second worst recession since the great depression. after the 80-81 recession, we saw a profound restructuring of the american economy. when we took inflation away, employers were paying workers no longer in inflated dollars. you could give a 5% raise and inflation was closer to 10 and you just made 5%. once inflation was gone, the 5% raise was regal. and manufacturing and utilities and transportation and elsewhere set out to fire about 30% of their work force. they unleased modern technology which in these times, in what is essentially the third technology revolution in history, was the computer. the computer attached all sorts

of other devices. what the computer does in the and then continues to do is that it automates everybody's job. as a result of that, all the tasks that are left over are non-repetitive tasks and require higher skills. there is a -- this is an engine underneath this. that engine runs faster now in recessions and has run faster and recessions for the last three recessions. now we get water called a jobless recovery which is something of a misnomer. it really means that the growth rate goes faster than the job creation rate. the amount of money we make grows faster than the hiring of people. that structural change is now accelerating during recession. the people who answered positively about higher education in this survey are

going to be proven right. when we come out the other side of this recession, it is virtually a sure thing that jobs that require high school or less will be a smaller proportion of this economy. a much greater share but probably not for a little while -- we will live for more hard times -- by 2016 or 2017, i think most the group will be at an unemployment rate of about 6%. when this survey is done than, those numbers will get stronger, i suspect. what is unfortunate is there will be many people left behind. they are not just going to be 18-24 year olds who need to find some way to move through the college system so they can begin careers and make decisions about their education that will affect them over the next 40 years. there will be a substantial number of people who are adults

who will be structurally unemployed. they will not have the skills necessary to go back to the industry for the occupation and certainly not the jobs that they left behind. they will need new occupational skills. they will have to shift occupations. that is a very tall order in any economic system to do that with adults. we have never done it successfully yet. there are two issues emerging here under this survey and one is, the larger one which is how we educate our children and what kinds of chances they will get and more and more, the education they get beyond high school really determines their opportunities over a lifetime. access to post secondary has become the are biter of middle- class status. when you run the numbers as we have from time to time, it is

true that the middle-class the middle class is defining and underneath that is the same engine. people would secondary education are either staying in the middle class or they are moving up into the top three in come groups, about $85,000 per year and people with high school are less are falling down. it does not mean there are not still high school jobs. for three out of 10 of people who get high school at the moment and never get anything else, you can get a job for about $35,000. that is much more robust for males than females. it is hard for a female with just a high-school to get a job for $35,000 per year. it is not impossible for men because there is still enough manufacturing and so want to go around for boys.

women don't have access to those occupations. the ones they do don't peg. pay. the results will only get stronger as time goes by. >> i like that three out of tense situation indicates two simultaneous games of musical chairs the chairs are being pulled out and in the other group you have the people with post secondary credentials and more and more of the chairs are being added. the people what a middle-class lifestyle are increasingly going to have to be in the game on this side rather than on the game on that side of the want to be successful. >> let's ask if any of you have questions. i hope you do. i want to ask a question while we get the microphones set.

some expressed concern over the way we frame these findings. some say are we talking about turning our colleges and universities into a massive job- training system? is this about training people force of the jobs, narrowing the curriculum? can you talk about the nature of the skills and knowledge and education that people need in this economy? >> no, no no. the important lesson from the should be an increasing recognition that the things that will make you successful in life and make you that well- rounded person who is successful as a parent, as a colleague, as a neighbor are the same things that make you successful in a job. the skills that employers say

through surveys we have seen from the business roundtable and other places show that what the employers most value are those things like critical thinking and problem solving and the ability to communicate and the analytical. those are all the things we believe we do best in higher education. this conversation about training people for jobs or for life is in fact the same conversation. those skills for life for the same skills you need to be successful in a good job. the conversation gets rockier from that point on because there are differing returns to different types of credentials. that is part of what the most recent research is starting to show is that we have to begin to differentiate the kinds of things that people are majoring in and the occupations they choose. not all returns are universally

the same but all the returns for people with post secondary skills and credentials are higher than those without those skills and credentials. >> my sense is this is not an e or kind of -- is not an either or situation. the system is not that way either. only about 10% ofb.a.'s are in liberal arts. all graduate education is occupational the base. you can get a ph.d. in history and not find a job but you intend to do something in history. when you dance a community college, less than half but nearly half are occupational and the other half are general education degrees about our supposed to send you to a four- year school were 90% of the

degrees are occupational. community college certificates and test-based certification which are the new big bullies on the block now are clearly intended to be occupational. it is too late to worry about this for starters. the good news is higher education has been pretty responsive to market demands. there is an issue of w i should be more so and we agree it should be more responsive than it has been very young people need to know if they get a degree in architecture what it will pay. they can decide to do what they want but they should know. i do believe that the employment rolls of higher education is crucial it is supposed to fill all sorts of needs. it is supposed to give as good citizens and good neighbors but in the american system, you

cannot be a good citizen or good neighbor or participate fully in the life of your * if you don't have a job. we don't make you vote but we make a go to work. if you don't go to work, we will not take care of you. if higher education does not deliver on its mission to get people employed, it will deliver on all of its other missions either. questions? right here. >> i'm with the american association of colleges and universities. i want to go back to aligning policy with the needs to approve the education -- to improve education.

how do we help bring this message to policy makers in particular? i was just giving a speech two days ago in a state which i will not name. i was giving a speech to a faculty development group about changing the teaching and learning environment to improve by. both. i used your wonderful data to talk about the changes in our economy and what people need. i later talked to a dean in the audience who happened to be in that state a state legislator. i never met a college dean who was also a state legislator but this actually happened. she asked how she can help her colleagues in the state legislature and understand this data. i directed her to the wonderful charge state-by-state that you have in her. reports she said i showed them to my

colleagues and they are not buying it. they are not interested. i did not know what to say. i think the public agrees with your data. the poll clearly shows that they get a connection between the economic health of this state and investment in higher education. the state legislature was the key. they could not get them to hear this message. >> part of the answer from my perspective -- i want to give tell me a chance to provide the real answer -- part of the answer is you may not believe it but the public policy makers in canada and korea and 30 other countries that our economic competitors believe it because they are investing heavily in this kind of success. they are investing so much that

they started to surpass us in terms of attainment. by the way, states that are your neighbors are probably doing similar things. there are some states taking the path you're talking about the several states this has become a bipartisan issue of a very high accord among people recognizing that increasing education is critical. one thing that is missing from many of these conversations is that the quality of the conversation about the common core and the k-12 changes will have to be matched at the higher at level. we will need to have some alignment of that conversation. i don't literally mean lockstep alignment. one of the mistakes of the conversation is not enough involvement of the people from the hire education side about what it does college-ready actually mean?

i think that would help strengthen the occasion. changes will have to be made in college education and the assessment system to a line with what i think will be quality improvements we will see at the k-12 level. >> i think politicians do understand this. they read the same polls and more of them than the rest of us do. i can tell you that number comes up over and over again. it is no accident that in the last two presidential campaigns access to higher education in both platforms moved as the economy move even as the economy collapsed. it went from two to three and never felt before four in any speech i heard. the weight the politicians are

dealing with this -- they are in a box because they do not have money. they have to make hard decisions about whether they will take money away from old people are young people. in the end, it will be young people because they are resilient. old people are not, i can tell [laughter] you. i have a horse in this race. what you heard in the last presidential campaign banned in the one before you heard the same thing and that was that the political answer is we will make college affordable. there is an implicit assumption that we will make college universally available. that is what they have been saying very the bush administration was the presidential statement on this. it was in their higher ed commission that people did not like.

it was something of an ambiguous endings were they said everybody does not need to go to college but everybody needs some post secondary education. somehow two-year schools were no longer colleges. in the end, they understand that the voters want access to post secondary education for their children. the answer is affordability. the question is what does affordability maine? we don't have much money and you'll have to do more with less. i think that is what they are saying. they then shift the blame for the problem toward higher education. the problem is it is not affordable. it is not hard to shifted to the institution variabl.

gas prices are the only prices if you are a politician to worry about. everybody stands at the pump and watch as the meter. everybody knows about gas prices. the other thing is you get a tuition bill. the politicians know that. one is the gas pump and the other is the tuition bill so it is not hard for politicians to say the price of gas has to go down on the price of college has to go down. the next question is how you do that. we come up some -- because of somewhat empty on that. fairfax county public schools. can you address the increasingly expensive costs of higher especially for those students whose parents don't have a college credentials? >> the gaps between the haves and have-nots are growing.

part of what we need to recognize is that ignoring those gaps comes that are collected peril. this is no longer an issue of trying to do better by those less fortunate. we're talking about the majority of our population now and the emerging majorities of latinos and the large numbers of african-americans and first- generation college-goers, the huge numbers of adults who have to be trained or retrained at the post secondary level because the jobs they had which were middle-class jobs no longer afford them the middle-class lifestyle. the critical piece of all this in my opinion is that we have to get serious about a new kind of social compact for those families. we've got to find a different way of articulating the value of higher education for them. i have spent most of my career as an ardent advocate for need-

based financial aid and nothing will change that. i was a pell grant recipient. i was a pell grant advocate. the reality of the cost of higher education for the populations you are talking about are simply too high. the solution will not come on the price side unless we agree to price controls which have all kinds of negative effects and i would not support government price controls. government cannot control the price of anything let alone something as complex as higher education. price controls would not be the right way to do agree on the way to do is to deal with it on the cost side. that will mean that the delivery model for higher education will have to. change we've got to have a more productive system of higher education meaning efficient but also effected, focusing on the learning outcomes that the public expects through this gal poll that we need to deliver on

in terms of high quality learning that leads to a good job. this is part of our challenge for those populations you're talking about. the failure to deliver on that is going to impact our collective well-being and their economic and social future as a country. >> this is why the governor t andom pour up here talking about technology. i don't know much about technology and it sounds like maybe they've got an answer. i have heard enough people do that. i heard hilary pennington do that a few weeks ago in richmond. she made me feel the same way. intuitively it makes sense. the only thing that bothers me is that i have been hearing that for about 30 years. as somebody who's an expert in

this area said to me a number of years ago, he said the justice in terms of your own lifetime. that is not very long. [laughter] he said would happen at this for 30 or 40 years and it will take another 30 or 40 to do it. in the meantime, we will have a problem delivering high-quality education universally in the united states. that will simply be a difficulty we will struggle through until the technology comes on line. >> another question. go ahead. a first year master's student here at george washington school of university. who want to talk about the perception that once too often a post secondary education that you are still not prepared to go into the workforce. as someone was relatively new in the work force, i want to speak

from my perspective. there is reason for that but one reason the comes to mind is that students need to be strategic about choosing a major. when you come into your undergraduate degree, i feel there is very little guidance about what is going on in the market now but what will be going on in four years. more importantly, what a student getting what you are getting in school? internship's is one thing. summer jobs for young people were very low recently. when you are in school and don't have that work experience and a graduate, that makes you less competitive and less able to get a job. what are the opportunities for providing into incentives for business programs to make sure those things are not cut in the comic and help students have more experience? >> bearingpoint there is a growing number of efforts trying

to connect with this. -- there is a growing number of efforts trying to connect with this. there are many others trying to elevate this issue which is that work-based experience is combined with education and can enhance the learning process and lead to higher quality outcomes. the credential itself is really the prerequisite. it will not be a guarantee of that high quality job. you have to augment that with other things to enhance your chances for success. the kind of things you're talking about are important. employers need to step forward and doing a better job of actually participating in that process rather than lamenting the incomplete job they are getting from our higher education system. employers are clearly paying a premium for people with college

degrees. they believe very strongly that is important. they also tell us that they need more and different. i think did a different kind of learning outcomes we're talking about like internships would be important in where they can invest directly. >> i am with the new leadership alliance. one thing that is unfortunate about the results is that students and families are continuing to pay the high cost of higher education. the legislature seize those results and it knows they can reduce the amount of money they're giving state institutions and students and families will keep paying for it and in the and it is a detriment to the insider system. -- a detriment to the entire system.

as long as people will be willing to pay, colleges and universities will not be forced to change as quickly. ofwe've gotten to the end the rope been a growing number of states on the raised tuition/cut budget strategy. the tuitions have been raised to a level that are extraordinary and are causing problems. at the same time, there are states like california where there is legitimate capacity issues in the system. the california community colleges cannot serve the need of a growing number of people. they don't have the capacity to do that. there is something happening on the ground here where i think we are starting to go over the cliff on the cut more and use tuition to make everything a level. that is where i think these

efforts to improve productivity will become increasingly important we have invested in seven different states on improving productivity. there has to be widespread acceptance of this idea that improving productivity will be critical to success of the system not the old way which is to make faculty teach more. that was a wasted effort. we have to engage the faculty and find ways to bring them into the equation to help get to those learning outcomes that will lead to the high quality success we need in order to be successful. >> one more question and i think we need to wrap up. >> i am from the embassy of australia. i want to focus on the degree and a perception of the value of the degree itself.

in australia, universities and businesses came together several years ago and developed a framework that allowed universities themselves to focus on learning outcomes and award degrees. how do you suggest that here in the united states institutions of higher education can come together to focus to awarding degrees on learning outcomes? >> a quick advertising for our own were atlumina which is built on the backs of the great war a done byac and others on the fernand -- you have seen a first attempt to define the competencies' that should be demonstrated by people at the

associate, bachelor's, master's degree in respect of the field of study. many countries call this a qualification framework. we have produced what we call a beta version. we are trying to test this idea of actually defining those competencies in ways where institutional leaders, faculty, policy makers can put their hands on this and better understand what the potential uses of this kind of framework might be. i think that has to be owned at the delivery level. , at the institutional level. that is where the teaching and learning takes place so i am not in favor of a national articulate its system that all colleges and systems would have to drive themselves through. the reality of american higher education is that we cannot describe what an associate degree actually represents or what a bachelor's degree or master's degree actually is.

that is the same conversation we have had at the k-12 level. the credit our base system will have to be replaced with a learning how come base system where we can better represent what these degrees represent. >>jamie and tony, but you very much. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> the chief of naval operations talks about the use of unmanned drones and we will have live coverage beginning at 8:30 a.m. eastern time. on c-span, "washington journal" is next and later, republican presidential candidate and former new mexico governor gary johnson speaks of the national press club. we will have live coverage. in about 40 minutes, we will discuss china. will looked at india with a will looked at india with a