american legion. thank you very much for being on the program this morning. guest: thank you. host: we've got one more update from the ap regarding the situation in forumly, libya. libyan rebels push the front line closer to tripoli. libyan rebels said they were less than 20 miles or 30 kilometers away from moammar gadhafi's main stronghold of tripoli sunday a day after opposition fighters launched their first attack on the capital itself. we want to let you know who's going to be on the program tomorrow on the "washington journal."

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> coming up on "newsmakers," our guest is education secretary arne duncan. after that, a conversation with

hillary clinton and leon panetta. following that, a critical look at the effect of politics on foreign policy. 2, aay on c-span t discussion and early education and the head start program. from the director of headstart, hosted by the brookings institution, the discussion gets under way to live at 9:00 a.m. eastern. >> for politics and public affairs, nonfiction books and american history, it is the c- span network available to you on television, radio, online, and on social media sites. and we are on the road with our c-span digital bus and local

content vehicles, bringing our resources to local communities and showing events from around the community. it is washington your way. c-span, created by cable, provided as a public service. >> arne duncan is the u.s. secretary of education and he returns to "newsmakers" this week as millions of americans return to the classroom. thank you for being with us. allyson klein is the "education week" staff writer. greg campeau is the national k- 12 education writer for usa today. allyson, let's start with you. >> you said that you are going to offer states exemptions from the chubb left behind in exchange for -- exchange from the no child left behind in exchange for certain conditions.

you of not said what they are. >> we believe that the law in its current form is broken. it is way too punitive, lots of ways to fail, and no rewards for success. it is very punitive, very top down from washington and it has led to a dumbing down of standards. the law of the land has some money has so many disincentives and that does not make sense to me. do is doe going to creative and invented things around principal and evaluation support. we want to give them a lot more flexibility. we're focused on doing the right thing, showing courage, raising standards. we want to get out of the way and let the move. we will hold the of -- we will hold them accountable for results, but great changes have

always come at the local level, not from me or anyone in washington. >> can you talk about some things you see that define what you're talking about? >> i was in tennessee last week. tennessee, like many states, dumb things down under no child left behind. it was very tight, very prescriptive. tennessee had the courage to raise standards. before they did, they told their students that they were reporting that 91% of their students were proficient in math. when they raised standards, that went to 34%. what does that mean? that means we are telling the truth. achievement gap became apparent as twice as large as people thought because the proficiency had been so low.

under the current no child left behind law, tennessee would get penalized for doing the right thing. we actually want to reward states that are showing courage and raising the standards. >> what does tennessee have to do to provide political cover for someone like the tennessee secretary of education? >> i am trying to do it right here. i'm trying to knowledge governors in states that are showing courage, doing the right thing. the flip side is, when we see things doing things we do not like, we are going to challenge the status quo. we have to educate our way to a better economy. we want to provide political cover. we also want to provide the flexibility to do the right thing. currently, the law prohibits them and ties the hands. >> getting back to the idea of

college and careers ready standards, as you well know, more than 40 states have signed onto standards initiatives, but there are a handful that have not signed on to that effort. will they be eligible for waivers? >> they will be, let me be very clear on that. first of all, i'm ecstatic to have 45 states raise standards. that is an absolute game changer. for the first time, a child in mississippi and a child in massachusetts will be measured by the same standard. no one thought this was possible two years ago. again, this leadership has not come from me or washington. it has come from governors, superintendents and board members, parents and teachers saying we deserve that. i'm thrilled of 45 states have voluntarily decided to do this together.

what is most important to me is high standards. if states do not want to join the common core but have high standards, what we're saying is that as long with a higher institution, if you can verify that your hitting a higher standard so that students do not have to take remedial classes and they go to college, we will accept that. if one of those five states that did not join the common cord can verify that they have high standards, we're willing to work with that. >> on the waiver program, groups like the urban league and the los angeles times editorial page of raised concerns that by granting waivers you will allow states to codify the lowest performing schools and really hurt minority communities. howdy ensure that does not happen? >> we would not allow that to

happen. again, when you raise standards, the people who benefit the most are those for whom expectations have been low. there are 5% of schools in this country -- this past year we had 1000 schools in this country that have started to turn around. we're always going to focus on disadvantaged children and cities with the achievement gap. any status not prepared to challenge the status quo in a significant way, we will not partner with them. we will not work with them. 5%i'm glad you mentioned the lowest performing schools. in some cases, half of the staff has been fired. in almost every case, the principle is removed unless the principle has been on the job for less than three years. this has been very controversial. are you looking to revisit that? would you consider adding an

additional option for schools or changing those models? >> i am always willing to consider anything as long as we're serious about the work. these are the bottom 5% of schools. these are not the 19 out of 20 in any community. these are schools that have 40, 50, 60 percent dropout rates. these are schools where it trend lines are going south, not north, and it has often been happening for decades. we have been complacent. we have allowed the status quo to exist. and when we do not educate, we do not just condemn children, we condemn entire communities to poverty and failure. for the first time this year, we saw 1000 schools start to turn around. i frankly think the media has missed a lot of the stories because people made very tough decisions at the local level,

but there was not a lot of trauma, so the media was not interested. these are urban schools, a suburban schools, rules girls -- rural schools, a lot of different areas that there. these 1000 schools will have some absolute amazing stories. some will be good but not great. some will still continue to struggle. i'm just so proud of the country that everyone has stepped up and done this work. there is a school in prince george's county where the head of the union made some very tough calls and significantly changed staff. they talked about what the differences that made in just a few months. the local head of the union said

it was probably the toughest thing he had done in his career but he had to do it because the students deserved better. it was a profound statement. we're seeing that kind of courage all over the country. unfortunately, it has not been covered. i encourage you folks to look at this. again, these schools are not going to be an overnight success. it is going to take a long time for schools that none of us would have thought about sending our own children to, and that is going to be the test. we need to know what is working, what is not. we need to continue doing the hard work. >> there was a poll this week that found the about 80 percent of parents and really, really like their kids' school, but 20 percent like public schools in general. that is to trends that have been

going in opposite directions for a couple of years now. what is that about? >> that split is very troubling to me and i think it is part of the reason we as a country have been too complacent about education. as you know, there are a number of countries that are out- educating us. they're getting better results. they'll hire hire education rates. we are never in the top 30, top five, top-10 in measures. other countries are out- investing as. they're being more strategic in a globally competitive, knowledge-based economy. jobs are going to go to the country's doing the best job educationally. our education -- our economic future is inextricably linked to education. we need to awaken parents across the country that the challenges are not just an urban issue or

an inner-city issue. there is a disconnect between perception and reality. where we see successes, we want to celebrate them, but we have to encourage schools, parents and teachers around the country that we have to get better. 1 million young people are dropping out of high school with no chance to make it in today's competitive work force. a high-school graduates, only about 25% of those are truly ready for college. we have to increase rigor. we have to increase expectations, and we have to challenge parents across the country to be part of the solution, to challenge me and the status quo to get better. i met with heads of the pta last week and said, the biggest thing you can do is ask parents to be more involved and be more demanding. >> there is a "finished

phenomenon." what is happening in finland. their system is very different from ours. it does not have a lot of the features that we increasingly have come under mandated tests, no rankings, yet they have a 93% graduation rate, their teachers come from the top of their glasses, and on and on. when you see those -- top of their class as, and on and on. when you see those figures, you think maybe we're doing something wrong here. >> we brought in leadership from high achieving, high performing countries, including finland. we brought in my counterparts from around the globe along with union leaders. in finland, only the top 10% of graduates are allowed to think

about teaching. 90% of folks do not qualify. i think that is profoundly important in education. talent matters. we have a baby boomer generation and needed millions of new young teachers. how we recruit the hardest working people from around the country. what finland has done is raised the status. they have elevated the profession of teaching. it is doctors, lawyers, and teachers altogether. that is out has to be here. i think we have to significantly raise starting salaries. i think a great teacher should be able to make $130,000, $150,000. we need better career ladders with much better support. >> one of the things a lot of people are saying about what we're doing now is that we're

making teaching less attractive, putting pressure and teachers individually to achieve results and pushing out good, creative teachers. >> again, to get good results, you need good, creative teachers, and anyone who thinks we do not -- we are pushing against that every day. i really trying to elevate the status of the profession. i think we have not done in this country is celebrate good teaching. finland has done that across the board. finland says we will only let the best come in and we will support them in different ways. they are getting great results and held accountable. it is not as if they do not have accountability. but they do a much better job of supporting them and compensating them. no one thinks that and educators should make a million dollars, but you also should not have to

take a vow of poverty to become an educator. this has got to be -- as a nation, we all need to think about this. with the third of our future work force retiring over the next four-six years, our ability to attract and retain great talent now is going to shape public education for the next generation. i spend a huge amount of my time thinking about how to attract that talent and then maintain that talent. >> getting back to no child left behind. you have called the punitive, a slow-moving educational train wreck. as you know, a number of states are beginning to push back. idaho is one, montana, i know you just worked out a last- minute deal with folks out there. would you consider pulling funding from states that rebel

against the law you yourself have called punitive? >> we need to think about how to become a better partner to states. we worked with idaho and montana very closely. what we're hearing from teachers, governors and state school superintendents is that they want flexibility. no one is afraid of accountability, but they want room to move. over the past 10 days, i have talked to almost every single governor in the country. not one has said the status quo is ok. not one has said do not do this. many have said, and thank god someone in washington is listening and paying attention. thank you for being a better partner. now a state for whatever reason says we do not care about achievement gaps or minority students, we will come after them like a ton of bricks. but that is not what we're seeing out there.

people are asking for room to move, time to get the hard work done, and balancing that. i think in this waiver package we are moving to a much better place. for me, the best solution is for congress to reauthorize the law and fix it for the country. we hoped they would reauthorize before this point. congress is clearly struggling to do much together. i think there is anything folks can come together behind in a bipartisan way is education. that is how we of work from day one. i hope this package is a bridge or a transition to congress ultimately reauthorize in a common-sense fix for the country. if we were to do nothing. if we were to start another school year with a lot that mislabels so many schools, calling them failures when they're not, i think our be a mistake.

-- that would be a mistake. >> people have tried to send you an president obama a message that they're unhappy about the accountability. also, we saw the cheating scandal in atlanta and other cities. do you ever lie awake thinking, we have a problem. >> there is so is a common-sense middle ground. where folks are over testing or saying that test scores should be the only valid elative tool, i think that is -- evaluative tool, i think that is crazy. -- of ways to measure how much students are improving each year. teachers have been asking for that. we of two extremes. one where we and no idea if students are learning. that makes no sense to me. if you're putting 100% of your

eggs on testing, that makes the sense to me. but when you're looking at teacher development, leadership and a host of measures just as you do in any profession, that makes a lot of sense to me. this is a change, and that change can be hard, but i think it is the right thing to do. i think teachers have a great sense of relief about the waiver package. i have talked to thousands of teachers around the country. not one has said we do not want to be held accountable. they want that accountability to be fair, and it has not been. much of the frustration is about the current law, which we have not fixed. a waiver package would be a significant step in the right direction. >> the relationship of the obama administration with some unions has been strained at times. we are coming up on a presidential election and as you know, teachers' unions are a big

force in the democratic party when it comes to boots on the ground. they knock on doors and make phone calls. how are you going to make sure that those people are going to come out for president obama? >> i think we have, overall, a good, healthy, hard working relationship with unions. it does not mean we're going to agree on every issue, but they share our urgency and get how much better we have to be as a country. they have shown tremendous courage and some difficult -- on some difficult issues. do we need to challenge them to move and think about things differently? absolutely. we're being self-critical as well. historically, our department has spent a compliance-focus bureaucracy. we're trying to focus on innovation and look at what

works. we're asking everyone to move that signed their comfort zones. at the end of the day, if we can move from middle of the pack internationally to first in the world, that is what it is about and i think that is the right thing to do for children, the right thing to do for our country, and ultimately the right thing to do for our economy. >> we of pretty clearly seen the effect of the tea party on the gop's platform in general. it was not so much about education, but i think it is safe to say that their views of education will show for it during the campaign. i'm wondering if you're concerned about what i think is becoming mainstream, the idea the we need to abolish the department of education. can you talk about that as a campaign issue? >> again, i am willing to work with anyone, democrat,

republican, a tea party, whatever, and that anyone who thinks what we're doing now is good enough, i have to challenge that the new -- and have to challenge that. anyone who thinks we should be doing less, i have to challenge the. i have worked with democrats and republicans across the board who are universally encouraging us to move in this direction. if the tea party thinks we need to do less in education, invest lusting colleges, lesson early childhood a jeep -- invest less in colleges, less in early childhood education, i have to challenge that. we are pushing an extraordinary amount of change and i think it is very, very positive. anyone who wants to walk away

from the country focus on -- country focusing on education, i think that is a bad idea. it would concern me if folks were advocating for reducing pell grants. it would concern me a folks were saying walk away from early childhood education. that is arguably the most important investment we can make. anyone, a tea party or not, who asks me to make this decision is, i'm going to challenge them every day. >> 3 reaching out to members of the super committee -- are you reaching out to members of the super committee? >> i have talked to all 12, had some conversations. this is an investment we have to make. those other countries we talked about are investing more, not less. and jobs are going to go to were

the best educated workers are. we're not competing for jobs in our districts, state or country. we're competing with china, south korea, singapore. i think our children are as smart, creative, talented, entrepreneurial, as children anywhere in the world. i just want to give them a chance to compete on a level playing field. the brutal truth is that countries that are out-educating us today will out-compete as down the road. >> earlier today, you're talking about governor rick perry. you said you felt sorry for the children of texas because of some of the decisions he made. do you want to elaborate on that? >> we've seen 45 states raise standards. that has not happened in texas. they have a high dropout rate. their student population is growing with lots of immigrant

children and their standards of education are going down. as a country, we need to make sure every single child has access to a world-class education. where you have low standards or high dropout rates, where you are investing less and have more students, that is a challenge. >> do you think education will be a part of this election? >> i hope that whether it is presidential, senatorial, governor, mayor, i would love everyone going to the voting booth with education at the top of the less. it is so important that all -- top of the list. it is so important that all of us not just talk the talk but walk the walk. i think our future as a country hinders on our ability to do better educationally. 80% of the jobs in the future

are going to require some kind of higher education, and we're not preparing students to be successful here, those jobs will walk off our shores and go someplace else. i hold elections on every single level, from the president on down -- what is this candidate doing to help insure the my community, my state, my country, has a chance -- every child has a chance to get a great education? >> thank you for being here. >> thank you for the opportunity. >> "news makers" is back. let me start with the super committee. his budget request is for an increase in funds for the department of education and the mood in washington seems to be going in the other direction. how likely is he to convincehe