regulatory role is important to make sure that beneficiaries and other people are protected and that false information is not given out. host: marsha gold, thank you for talking to our viewers. tomorrow, prescription drug program which includes prescription drug coverage, private plans approved and paid for. $58 billion in 2010 funded through general revenue and premiums. that will be the topic for tomorrow to get to new our series looking at medicare. the house is about to come in for a pro forma session. here is this morning's situation out of libya from the associated press. the latest is that there is a fierce street battle going on in parts of tripoli. forces loyal are posted right outside of tripoli and. there is still no word on where colonel gaddafi is.

the loyalists will fight back. thank you for watching. we will be back tomorrow. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning made possible by the national captioning institute, inc., in cooperation with the united states house of representatives. any use of the closed-captioned coverage of the house proceedings for political or commercial purposes is expressly prohibited by the u.s. house of representatives.] the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. the chair lays before the house a communication from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's rooms, washington, d.c., august 23, 2011. i hereby appoint the honorable jeff denham to act as speaker

pro tempore on this day. signed, john. a boehner, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: the chair will be you are aed -- will be offered by the guest chaplain. the chaplain: let us pray. we are given leadership of a journey, upon which the people of this land have embarked. a quest for a more perfect union and for many to make one, to this house has been entrusted the hearts of a traveling, passionate pilgrim people. o god, therefore we pray thee, be with those two pilot our cause, visit with those who keep watch in this place. to those who steer the ship of our nation, endow a clear mind and a gentle tongue. bestow a generosity of spirit to reason together, even while

acknowledging great differences. that as we journey we may not become strangers to each other. but see in every life a valued fellow pilgrim. and may the captain of our souls guide us into safe harbor at the last, in his name we pray, amen. the speaker pro tempore: pursuant to section 5 of house resolution 375, the journal of the last day's proceedings is approved. the chair will lead the house in the pledge of allegiance. i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. purr suvente to section 4 of house resolution 375, no legislative business will be conducted on this day. pursuant to section 3 and 4 of house resolution 375, the house stands adjourned until 10:30

a.m. on friday, august 26, >> a short time ago, in node spokesman said that gaddafi -- gaddafi a nato -- a nato spokesman said that gaddafi

forces would be bombed if they kept fighting. the situation in tripoli is still very serious and dangerous. and nato press briefing being held in brussels, belgium this morning. it was reiterated that nato may play a supporting role in the post-gaddafi period. the briefing is about 50 minutes. a couple of questions and answers are in french. >> good afternoon, will come back, and welcome to those following this press conference from naples and, of course, via the internet. i'm joined by colonel roland lavoie, it will give us the regular briefing on events in libya. this has been a remarkable week. we have seen gaddafi's forces lose their grip over towns and cities that they have been threatening for so long with a. seen people in tripoli it

rejoicing -- we have seen people in tripoli rejoicing as the gaddafi regime crumbles. they have lived under the threat of violence for decades. now they can hope for a new beginning. nato and our partners have conducted a highly effective campaign in support of the libyan people under the mandate of the united nations security council. over the past five months, we have steadily degraded a war machine built up over more 40 years. today we will pass the milestone of 20,000 soldiers. we have damaged or destroyed almost 5000 legitimate military targets, including over 800 tanks and artillery pieces. we've done so with unprecedented precision and with as much care as possible to minimize the risk to civilians. for the gaddafi regime, this is the final chapter.

the end is near and events are moving fast. what's clear to everybody is that gaddafi is history, and the sooner he realizes it, the better. the libyan people should be spared more suffering and more bloodshed. the remnants of the regime are desperate, they may be trying to fight back here and there, but they are fighting a losing battle. the launch last night of another scud-type missile against misrata is proof that we cannot drop our guard. this use of an indiscriminate weapon against a city shows beyond doubt why our mission to protect civilians remains necessary. so we cannot drop our guard, and we won't. nato is committed to our united nations security council commitment and our mandate to protect civilians, and we will keep on implementing it for as long as necessary.

this afternoon, ambassadors will meet here at nato headquarters to take stock of our operation and the situation in libya. they will discuss the way forward, and i would expect they will also want to look at options for a possible nato role once this conflict is over. obviously, i cannot prejudge the ambassadors discussion, but there is a general understanding that any future nato engagement will be governed by three principles. firstly, the leading role in the post-gaddafi period in supporting the libyan people rests with the united nations and the contact group. nato will be at a supporting role. secondly, nato will have no troops on the ground. thirdly, any possible nato future role in libya, in addition to the current one under operation unified protector, will have to be upon request. right from the start, the

international community has come together to confront the libyan crisis. nato is playing a vital role in protecting the people of libya. we will continue to coordinate with all relevant international actors to bring this crisis to the conclusion that the libyan people want and deserve. with that, i hand over to colonel lavoie in naples. roland, the floor is yours. >> thank you, welcome, to those who are joining us in brussels and from naples, of course. we have several people here on a warm august day. in the last at few days, we have had significant changes, advances in momentum in anti- gaddafi forces. in the city of brega, the

surrounding of misrata, and even an indication that were previously -- and even in the patients that were previously known as resistance pockets. there is no doubt that pro- gaddafi forces are severely eroded, losing to defection or captured key decision makers, the expelled from keep military positions, and most importantly, losing the ability to suppress the libyan population and a growing number of cities and villages. it is without a doubt historical milestone, all but not at the last chapter of the libyan conflict. i would like to stress that regardless of the latest developments, our military mission has not changed. our mission remains to protect the civilian population against

the the threat of attack and to enforce the arms embargo as well as the no-fly zone as mandated by the united nations. let there be no doubt that we would continue to monitor military units and the facilities as we have since march. when we see any threatening moves towards the libyan people, we will act in accordance with our mandate. this has been and continues to be a 24-7 operation. as such, the u.n. mandate remains a valid, and we remain vigilant and determined to protect the people of libya. we will keep the pressure until there are no more attacks on civilians and forces are withdrawn to their base at full humanitarian access has been in short. -- ensured.

vast numbers of areas have been contested her behalf t -- fast numbers of areas have been contested and we have to remain vigilant. the situation is very, very dynamic and complex, and as we are closely monitoring developments hour after hours. outside tripoli, actions occurr and civilians are being oppressed. no later than yesterday, a service to service missile was fired and landed in the vicinity of misrata, apparently without any casualties.

major was also destroyed multiple rocket launchers -- nato has also destroyed will double what the launchers firing toward the city of brega. libyans are taking a toll of the country, and what is left of the pro-gaddafi military gives no sign that they will stop fighting the population. they are aggressively fighting to keep their control over coastal access 20 kilometers of brega and southwest of misrata and to preserve our freedom of movement, where they have -- and to preserve our freedom of movement, where they have a shot to fall back positions. we urge them to stop, return to bases, and allow a safe and undeterred access to all the

people in need of assistance. until this is the case, we carry on with our mission. i will take a few questions. >> thank you very much, roland. >> german television. can you give us an idea what the strategy of nato is at the moment, whether you are bombing directly in tripoli, for example, where gaddafi is supposed to be now, or what are the targets of nato at the moment? that is my first question a bit if you would allow second one, how many soldiers do you expect there are in libya it to work for gaddafi? >> first, regarding the strategy, our mission remains -- we continue to protect the

civilian population, to be vigilant, to enforce the no-fly zone and the arms embargo. we are doing it 24/7, we have done it since march, and we continue to do exactly the same thing. regarding the situation in tripoli, i could not comment on current operations, of course. but i can tell you that we remain vigilant and we will strike a target if it poses a threat against the civilian population. this is what we've done since the beginning and what we will continue to do with full determination. with respect to the number of soldiers at the disposal of the gaddafi regime, this is not something we could estimate with precision. what i would tell you, however, is it is not so much the number of soldiers who have accounts, because many of them could be demobilized.

we are talking a lot mercenaries. what is important is the ability to fight. i can tell you that since the beginning of this campaign, we have a severely eroded the gaddafi regime military capability to apply where there command-and-control -- to a point where the command and control capabilities are severely affected, is a really reduced -- severely reduced. they have a lot of senior leaders who have either defected or had been captured. basically, let's be clear here. despite the noise we could be making -- the gaddafi regime is going down. is more a matter of when it than if it is indeed a cthe case.

>> of course, i still like to understand -- i understand it you are protecting civilians, but i would still like to know how you are doing it in tripoli, where there are many people around the bunker where gaddafi is supposed to be. what are the military targets if there are so many people around? what are you doing there? >> as i mentioned, i will not comment on current operations, as we are conducting them now. what we can tell you is that there are still weapons out there and targets if, if we have any signs that they represent a threat to the population -- a later than yesterday, we took out two -- no later than yesterday, we took out two that were basically firing in the direction of brega. these weapons were firing when

we engage them. of course, that in the urban city of tripoli, the situation is far more complex. we still have the precision mission that could allow us to take some targets, if we believe there is an immediate threat against the civilian population. we have done so in the past, we've taken facilities, buildings, pieces of artillery, radar sites with a very accurate precision. we have the capability to do so. we will do so if there is an interest -- if there is a threat against the population p. >> unless tripoli falls quickly, the rebels are going to need close air support. as nato -- has nato categorically ruled out that option? secondly, nato nations are

debating today and later on will rule on a mandate -- you foresee aftered for, combat air september? >> i will only comment on the first part. keep in mind that the institution and a greater tripoli is very -- the situation in british tripoli is very complex. we're talking about urban -- the situation in a greater tripoli is very complex. we are talking about urban fighting. lookwe're doing is more to at -- i cannot go into the details, but essentially, we're looking at what is going on on the ground, and what we could identify as the threat to the civilian population. it might not be on the frontlines. it might be in the approaches of tripoli, if there is movement.

if we identify the command and control node from where there is orders or directions to conduct attacks. yes, we can be active in tripoli, we do not provide support to anti-gaddafi forces. >> on your second question, this mission is not over, the mandate stands, nato remains vigilant. nato extended with our extended the mandate at the end june for another 90 days. clearly, we will continue to adapt in light of what is happening on the ground. the situation remains fluid on the ground. and a adaptation will be done --

any adaptation will be done following advice from the military authorities, and decisions will have to be taken by the north atlantic council, as ever. but at the moment, we continue to assess, consult and discuss both within nato, military authorities, with our operational partners, and of course, with all the other relevant international actors in this crisis. bbc. >> thanks. two questions. first of all, what advance notice did nato have about the rebel offensive against tripoli? presumably it did not come as a complete surprise to you. second, to the initial question, there is clearly a lot of outgoing fire from gaddafi's

bunker and come out in tripoli, but that is merely because it is under attack by rebel forces. does that mean it constitutes a legitimate target for nato? >> we have allied contacts on the ground. we have a quite good understanding of the large scale movements of troops on both sides, actually. of course, we are not in tactical fashion with any of the key players. cannot tactical operations with anti-gaddafi forces. -- we do not conduct tactical operations with anti-gaddafi forces. could you repeat your second question, please? >> yes, in terms of a mandate,

reports suggest there is a lot of fire coming out of the bunker and compound in tripoli where gaddafi may or may not be a bit in love that fire may be going towards civilians per --. a lot of that fire may be coming towards civilians. rebel forces are attacking it, and i want to know if you think that makes it a legitimate target for nato action. >> for the moment, we have no signs that the anti-gaddafi forces behave in a way that is not consistent with the u.n. resolution. having said that, we revert to our mandate, which is to protect the civilian population. i will not speculate on any future operations. what i could tell you is that we from the national transitional council that they want to

respect the letter of the law of the international laws. basically, what we are seeing on the ground essentially reflects that. if i remind you some of the atrocities that occurred in the last few weeks and months, and no later than yesterday, when you had a scud missile being launched towards and urban area, it shows clearly that this the pro-gaddafi forces -- this is the pro-part of the forces that are conducting a press -- this is the pro-gaddafi forces that are conducting a press of repression of the population. >> everybody say that now the

end of the regime is close, near. but might not be a matter of hours. so now that the situation has changed, what are you saying? how long you need to get to the end? another month can be enough? >> i think we have to look at this from a local perspective. probably there is nobody -- if somebody would claim so, i would challenge it -- nobody can predict exactly when exactly the gaddafi forces will finally got the weapons -- finally drop their weapons. nobody could say exactly when. what i could tell you in marginal terms, however, this is

the gaddafi regime has been eroded. initially we cannot see the difference in a day to day fashion. however, over time, they have lost capability to maintain repression. what we're seeing it is not a major offensive for military people. what we're seeing is that population -- doctors, teachers, farmers, citizens who basically realized that suddenly the cities and villages are not fully control anymore and they have the ability to uprise, which is quite encouraging, but also quite difficult to predict. we did not talk about military formations advancing and doing a conquest here. we talk about simple citizens

who suddenly realized that they could take their destiny in their hands and do something about it. i think there is no doubt it is coming. the exact when, we will see. >> [speaking in french] location of gaddafi. second one, is it true that nato already allowed ground troops to fight close to the rebels in libya, in tripoli? >> the first question, where is gaddafi -- if you know, let me

know. we don't know. i don't have a clue. i am not sure that it really does matter, in this sense that the resolution of the situation will be political. i think everybody recognize that gaddafi will likely not be part of the solution. he is not a player anymore. from that perspective, we don't know, but i don't think it really matters, although i recognize the symbolic value it could have for reporters. in terms of having ground troops in libya, if you referred to nato ground troops, is not considered at all. our mandate is to become a very strict -- enforce the no-fly zone, protect the civilian population. this is what we continue to do.

>> "stars & stripes." here's a quick hypothetical for nato -- let's say that nato surveillance somehow or fax gaddafi fleeing from a location he did not think he was coming from. under the mandate, does he get targeted? second question, in terms of the discussions being held today, is there any kind of timetable for a decision on or anything that will be announced by the nato states it on the next steps should rebels consolidate their gains? >> i will take the first one. we did not target individuals, and gaddafi is not a target for nato. if gaddafi leaves the country and that's the process to find a solution, we will be happy about

that. he is not a target. the answer, we do target command- and-control facilities. if gaddafi is located in a facility that commands and controls attacks, these are legitimate targets and we will strike. i will not comment on the other part. that might be more for brussels. >> on the second question, obviously, we will keep you all informed about any decisions today and in the future, as we have throughout this crisis, and as ever. next question. >> thank you, colonel. spanish news agency. the rebels claimed they controlled 95% of tripoli. i don't know if you can confirm this. also, yesterday we could see some wires that were talking

about tanks presumably from the regime, of course, leaving the presidential palace. i don't know if these threats to the population are still there on the ground. what can you identify as the main menace for the population now in tripoli? thank you so much. >> thank you for the question. giving out percentage is always a risky business. i remind also that you are on the ground to account assets. what i can tell you is that tripoli is it not under gaddafi control anymore. i will not risk going into percentages, because there are obvious pockets of fighting. it brings me to your second question -- the situation in

tripoli is still very serious and dangerous, especially in the lives of -- the attack that gaddafi conducted no later than yesterday in an urban area. snipers shelling, missile launches could do some serious damage. it could not change the course of history or the course of this campaign, of course, but it could be quite harmful for the population, which explains why we are keeping on with our mandate, by the way. >> sky news. in talking about imagining the post-gaddafi libya, you talk about nato playing a supporting role. what would that supportive role in golf? -- what would that supportive role involve?

>> there is clearly a leading role in libya in the post- gaddafi period, which has already started, and that is for the united nations. we welcome the fact that both have announced meetings as a matter of urgency. would continue to hold staff-to- staff meetings -- we continue to hold staff-to-staff meetings and be involved in those consultations actively. nato will have a supporting role if required. on request, nato will consider how it can play a role in helping stabilize the debt further -- helping stabilize libya further. the details remain to be discussed with the military

authorities, within nato itself, with a pitcher bidding partners, and of course, with international organizations in the lead -- with contributing partners, and of course, with international organizations in the lead and with the libyan people. >> peter spiegel, "financial times." just to follow up on a 95% question, putting percentages aside, can you give an assessment of how accurate the assessments from the transitional council have been, particularly given the recent incident with saif al-islam where they claims to have captured him and it appears he was not captured. are you relying on their assessments and do you find him credible? if i could ask a little bit more on what will happen this afternoon, you mentioned in your opening remarks that there are going to be options for future.

could you talk a bit about casting? as the military committee been tasked to look at specific options for post-could not become peacekeeping, stability and -- operations? -- specific options for post- gaddafi, peacekeeping, stability operations? can you address that? thank you. >> i am afraid you may not find my answer fully satisfactory, because nato is not in the business of assessing military capabilities of the belligerents in a conflict in which we are only a party with a limited role, which is busily to enforce the embargo, the no-fly zone, and to protect the population. course, we have an overall appreciation of the situation, and it is quite clear -- we

could even watch it on tv -- that the regime has lost its control over key strategic areas over the country. but i would not venture to get into percentages or, did not other people's estimates. -- or commenting on other people's estimates. >> first, on saif al-islam, a brief appearance in the dead of night does not indicate to me as somebody who is in control of our country -- of a country or capital or anything much at all, really. it shows that the remnants of the regime are on the run. it is up to the libyan people to decide the fate of the three who up and indicted by the international criminal court -- who have been indicted by the

international criminal court once they are caught. as we have seen very recently in the balkans, those who are on the run from international justice may be on the run for some time, but they cannot hide. in terms of what will be decided this afternoon, as i said, and you will expect me, i think, to prejudge the discussions the ambassadors, of the north atlantic council, rest assured we will let you know as soon as decisions are taken, and also rest assured that nato will continue to make it planning for all contingencies, as we've done from the beginning of this crisis and as we do as a serious security organization. i think we've all seen that prudent planning has been paying off with a very effective campaign. >> [unintelligible]

a task to prepare something for this in anticipation of the meeting? >> the military authorities are always asked to provide their assessment on a regular basis to inform the decisions by the north atlantic council. i think we had ap. >> i was going to ask the same question about the military. >> reuters. >> i have the sort of a broader question. could you assess over time to what extent nato in any way coordinated with the rebels, in terms of surveillance, picking targets, any kind of coordination, and if there was any, how did that change over the last months since march? >> i could take this one. we do not coordinate with the

opposition. we do our mission, which is basically to do the no-fly zone, the embargo, and protection of the civilian population. of course, we obtain information from our allied nations who are present on the ground to know what is going on and and to know where and when we should act to complete our mandate. we are not in direct contact with the anti-gaddafi forces to plan attacks ordinor coordinate maneuvers. >> if there are any more questions from naples -- if not, there are quite a few still here in brussels. >> we have one. >> colonel, could you just clarified the last answer you said?

you obtained information from with a presence on the ground or know what is going on. there are media reports saying that british and french special forces have been arming and training the rebels at different parts of the conflict. was that outside of the nato umbrella, or can you kind of elaborate a bit more on what you meant by allied nations with a presence on the ground to know what is going on? >> as a spokesperson for nato, i cannot comment on other nation'' activities in libya. but we do have eyes and ears in the country, which is basically -- the intelligence basically emerge with the intelligence we could get with our own means also for this operation.

we don't have anymore questions >> my question goes to you, oana. i know you say the situation is still very fluid, but talking about the next steps, there will be the decision that the un will take over what is necessary, peacekeeping troops or whatever. is it -- it is in europe's nearest neighborhood. wouldn't it be that duty of the europeans and nato to take over responsibility? what you expect from regional players, the african union and the arab league? >> we have seen the united nations and the contact group

together with other regional and national organizations in the lead on the political fallout from the start in trying to bring this crisis -- on the political front from the start in trying to bring this crisis to a solution. nato is implementing a mandate from the united nations security council resolution, and we will continue to do that until all attacks and threats of attacks against civilians have stopped, until all of our gaddafi's forces have withdrawn to base, and of course, until there is full and free humanitarian access. nato and our partners have decided in berlin in april, these are the three military goals. but we also made clear that in the post-gaddafi period, nato will take a supporting role, if required. it is for the united nations and the contact group to take the lead in conducting any

civilization operations, in taking decisions as to how to support the people of libya and bring in a stable and secure future. nato is willing to help in a supporting role if it requested and needed. we have made clear also that there will be no nato troops on the ground in the future as are no nato troops on the ground right now. i trust, and we've already seen, that all the international actors involved in this crisis have stepped up to the plate and played a full role in bringing this crisis to a solution that responds to the legitimate aspirations of the libyan people.

we had a question over there. >> [speaking in french] >> [speaking in french]

>> [speaking in french] npr. >> national public radio. the french defense minister has publicly called for nato to stop the bombing of the main gaddafi complex. -- step up the bombing of the main gaddafi complex, saying it would be symbolically important. do you disagree that it would be important to destroy that complex? also, for oana, given that tnc

has been here and has been recognized as the partner, the negotiator for the rebels, why is it that there is still no coordination? >> with respect to the complex, we have strikes against the complex, and i am not commenting on present or future operations. but we will continue to -- with our missions, and we will conduct strikes wherever necessary to protect the population in libya. it has to be very clear that we will strike at every threat that could be present in libya against the civilian population. >> you are saying that if it is

not tactically important, you don't find it necessary to intensify the bombings? >> as a matter of policy, i will never speculate about current or future operations or the value of the military targets. if the location has no importance, we will not have struck it in the past. when i was talking about gaddafi himself. i would say stay tuned. >> on the national transitional council, clearly, we are -- we consult with them, we are in touch with them. the mandate of this mission remains of the same. the mandate is clear, and that is the protection of civilians

and civilian populated areas, the no-fly zone and the arms embargo. >> you said that future involvement of nato in libya would have to be on request. would you specify what request -- libyan or international? secondly, if you say there will be no nato boots on the ground in libya, how to you and match and the role of -- how do you imagine the post-conflict role of nato, with no bids on the ground? -- boots on the ground? >> those are very good questions, and and now you are trying to get me to say more, and i will not prejudge the discussions with the

transitional national council. >> [speaking in french] >> [speaking in french]

>> [speaking in french]

>> no troops on the ground in the future. post-conflict, though, there can only be two roles for nato, one of which you seem to be excluding, and the other would be security sector reform. this is something, i assume, that would be led by the other major organizations, a truly political and security sector reform involves the two sides of personnel. when you say no ground troops, are you excluding those people as well? >> another excellent question. at the moment, i am not going to go into any more details. as i said in a speech in june, the secretary-general mentioned the possibility of security and

reform as one ofo the areas in which it nato could conceivably play a role in libya or other countries in the region, but that of course would have to be if requested and if needed. at the moment we will have to leave that at. over there. >> [speaking in french] >> [speaking in french] >> [speaking in french] >> [speaking in french]

over there. >> i wonder, how important is it that gaddafi and other people in

his family that had been wanted for arrest by the icc come out of this alive, and what exactly vis thedo these ovis-a- rebels to be ensure that this happens? >> roland has answered that question to some extent already. this is for the libyan people to decide the fate of those who have been indicted for crimes against humanity and other serious crimes by the international criminal court. what is important is that the transition in libya is to add space that is democratic -- to a space that is democratic, that respects human rights, the rule of law, that is based on reconciliation and not violence

or retribution. but obviously, the rule of law is important and must be respected. we welcome the statement made in the last few days by the leadership of the national transitional council. i think those statements are very clear, and the roadmap that they have already presented to the contact group is also very clear and very welcome. we have one last fall up, over there -- one last follow-up, over there. >> when you say no nato boots on the ground -- another formula, a boots onnato members'

the ground, under their own command? >> i think i said no nato boots on the ground, but national decisions are national decisions and i will not judge any national decisions that have not even been made it. as a matter policy, we do not discuss hypothetical questions. since we have been in the realm of hypothetical questions already, thank you very much. >> and since that nato briefing earlier this month, a couple of updates. cnn is reporting that libyan rebels say they have reached the gate at gaddafi's compound today and heavy gunfire has broken out at the tripoli airport that rebels had seized. the russian head of the world

chess federation said he spoke with the libyan leader by telephone and he remains in tripoli and defiant. we will keep you posted on news updates from libya as we can. "washington journal" viewers and callers weighed in this morning on the u.s. role in libya. latest the country. a reporter is joining us from inside of tripoli. who controls the capitalight now? guest: we have no idea who controls the capital at the moment. after the appearance of the fighters, the situation has evolved considerably. it seems like different parts of the city are under the control of different militias or not under anybody's control. the situation i very confused now.

we have reports of intense firefights in different parts of the city. there are many forces roaming the city. we are trying to understand the situation that is changing by the hour. host: is it just the city of tripoli that is in question or other parts of the area as well? guest: theres still fighting going on in other parts of the country. the map of control has not changed appreciably. the forces of muammar gaddafi are still in control of cities considered his stronghold. in the south and center of the country. the rebels are still in control of large parts of the east and western mountains. the city is where i am right

now, 50 miles outside of tripoli. it seems to be the disputed battleground at the moment. host: we are learning there is a hotel and side of tripoli were a lot of the foreign journalists have been staying. that has been surrounded by gaddafi supporter were you at that hotel? how did you get to where you are? what is it like reporting there. guest: the journalists staying at tt hotel where those covering tripoli for a long time. they had been given permission by the gaddafi government and proper visas. they were inside a tripoli before the rebels entered the ty. myself and other journalists, who are staying here and outside

of tripoli, have been following the rebel advances. when i went to tripoli thether day, that was my first visit there. the places we have not been able to go get are places that seem to be more strongly under the control of the government loyalists. that includes the fortified compound of gaddafi, and area that is surrounded to be -- that is said to be surrounded by his troops. no one knows where he is. host: that was my next question. where is gaddafi and what are you hearing? it sounds like speculation is that he is at the compound. guest: there is speculation he is at the compound or in

algeria or gone to one of these towns that are friendly to him. no one has a solid information about his whereabouts. we know that his son has made a visit to foreign journalists earlier this morning. he was seen on the streets of tripoli yesterday in a very confusing episode. we had understood that saif al- islam had been arrested by the rebel authories, the national transitional council. he and his brother mohammad were in custody. now we are told that he may have escaped, but it is very unclear what happened. many wonder if he was ever arrested at all. his brother is also said to be free. host: what are you hearing about

e transitional council that has been set up and where they are right now? what is happening with them and what is next? guest: a member of the ben ghazi based transitional council, arrived here last night. we were not able to speak to him. he was meeting with local military commanders. this is a another confusing aspect of this whole transitional phase. the second in the command of the rebel transitional executive committee in had actually been fired from his job a few weeks ago that was after the assassination of a military leader. he seems to be here representing the government in some capacity. i was unable to get an answer as

to the question as to what position he holds he was a senior rebel leader. about the senior transitional council. it is hard to understand how they will make their way to tripoli at this point. host: i know you are on the run. what's next? guest: we are trying to get an answer as to who has control over what part of the city. we are trying to understand how the fighting is and what of the situation on the ground looks like. host: thanks for joining us. what is next for the u.s. role in libya?

for a country in transition, -- it says this. that is the washington journal and here is the washington post.

that is where we turn to all of you this morning. what is your take on all of this? what will be the role of the u.s. going forward during this ansition. we have a line set aside for lians living inside of the united states. let us hear from rick first, a republican in las vegas. caller: this is american and an erican-cuban that is happy to see people getting tir freedom. it is aong way from over.

by accident, 20 some years ago, fell into a book written by gaddafi. the key point is that gaddafi came to power at the same time that the cia and the kgb were both running coup attempts on him. he snuck in between them and played both sides in the middle. this is an open source book from retired cia sources that i found. uslim brotherhoodrhood association has attempted at

least 40 attempts on his life. a who are the rebel forces? i think the media is handling it a lot better than the tahrir square fighters and -- this is beautiful. host: what does that mean for the u.s. role going forward? caller: the u.s. role going forward is to sit back and keep a low profile, not come out and say anything like yesterd, your role is over. he is the desert a mystic.

-- desert mystic. over 100 cruise missiles at 1 million a pop. we still do not know where this guy is. he is delusional. he is wacky. the u.s. role was started, because a year ago, remember the from the united nations? if you go back and watch it, gaddafi has done some pretty wacky stuff. host: i will leave it there and show our viewers about what you said about the cost. 89 million for the pentagon's budget for daily military operation. that is only through june 30. too much to 22 million in ammunition, parts, sold to the

allies. sorties our aircraft and refueling aircraft that was sold. that information coming from the pentagon yesterday. sarah, a democrat from chicago. caller: i agree that -- i totally agree with what everyone has been singing. i think we are going about this all wrong. -- has bn saying. i think we are going about this all wrong. we needed to go in as less of a force and held them do it themselves, instead of us

turning into what was iraq and having to pull everyone out. i know it is harder than that and things are a lot worse than what i am singing. we need to go in -- seeing. we need to go in more as a helpful force. host: you want a peacekeeping mission on the ground? caller: that is a good thing, but we need to do it in little steps. not send all the troops there in one time and then have to pull the out if the country is in total chaos. i think that is what has happened in iraq. host: how old are you? caller: 17. host: why have you been following thiso closely? caller: i love politics.

if i am going to go into politics i need to know what is happening in our world today. from presidentr obama yesterday when he made a statement from martha's vineyard about the transition and the conflict in libya. >> as we move forward from this pivotal phase, the opposition said continue to take important steps about a transition that is peaceful, inclusive, and adjust. he leadership of the ntc has made earhat the rights of all libyans must be respected. recons -- peace will not come from violence but reconciliation. in the effort, the united states will be a friend and partner. host: libya in transition. the next role of the u.s. is our question in view this morning. -- here is a

tweed. -- tweet. if you want to send us a twins, here is the address. -- tweet, he is the address. you can also make a comment on facebook. caller: i was a rescue worker at the world trade center. i saw what people were doing. i believe gaddafi is held up with all of his nerve gas and all types of gases. we have to help those people. i would love to see how happy they are to get r of that idiot. he has some kind of plan.

they will kill thousands of people at one time. i was in the service. i know all about this. i was down in florida during the cuban missile crisis. they used tear gases and other gases. he is laid back, waiting for those guys to come in there. i would cover all the supplies with water. they would have to surrender. host: here is a facebook, who says we have no business involving ourselves in the first place. if you want to post your comment on facebook, go to r website there. we can continue the conversation there. morerom the "wall street journal" this morning. air power on the verge of toppling colonel gaddafi.

there is talk about winding down a nato mission. u.n. officials over the summer stepped up for the planning of the fall of colonel gaddafi. also the peace quotes, i do not see much of a role for u.s. military in pose conflict

libya." the campaign effective but not a model going forward. the campaign will not be seen as a mplate f further intervention in the middle east. the the big campaign had u.n. backing. we'll hear from shaun next, and independent from tennessee. caller: your question is what is in store for us now? more of the same. i see the president's comment an the young girl that called in. what a lot of people do not understand is what war is. my father was killed in okinawa

in the army. war is killing women and children and people lane in hospital beds. that is what is more in store and what is more to come. that is what war is. people do not understand what it is. host: democrat from baltimore, what do you think? caller: you have to understand the difference between war and liberation. we went through the same thing in our history. these people are trying to secure their freedom. i heard one thing about the decisions that our made -- our president has made, and making the situation less than confrontational. the republicans have tried to make it seem that he has moved fast enough. there have been no american lives lost.

a strategic plan has been amazing. this is not just about freedom, but a tyrant that has killed americans. to see the conversation moved so far past the decisions of our commander in chief and what he has done to give families to the peace.s ps host: fred, a republican in fairfax, what do you have to say? caller: we should learn from history not to let the big be like iran and from a modern dictator. if they want to be demracy, they must not tolerate -- they need to know more than that.

democracy means role as people. you have to be able to tolerate as much more you can tolerate of people. [unintelligible] in the united states, we have 200 different countries, 64 different languages. the united states is differe, because it can tolerate. if they want it, they have to watch history and have more toleration. host: here is an e-mail from a viewer. if you want to send us an e- mail, send it to

journal@cspan.org. the german foreign minister according to "ap" this morning is calling for a quick un resoluti to unlock frozen libyan assets. i want to show you what to the german foreign minister along with a south african foreign minister had to say regarding the situation in libya yesterday. >> the legal, diplomatic, political, and financial support. we will soon be able to release the frozen assets that belong to the libyan people. >> the dictators time is over. he should now go of his own accord to prevent further bloodshed. >> we do not know the whereabouts of colonel gaddafi. we assume he is still in libya. >> foreign perspective for you this morning about the

situation in libya. here is the "financial times" about what will happen next. much will be said in the coming days. french president has invited head of the transitional council to discuss the next eight on wednesday. it says hillary clinton had a conference call in york. the agenda included financial support for the national transitional council and the libyan people. that is what is next for t

dish in the coming days. we are getting your take on that. here is a piece by daniel, a guest on the "washington journal." here are some of the problem is likely to occur. he says many libyans have suffered under the gaddafi regime.

that is the opinioniece this morning from the "washington post." we go to an independent. caller: as far as our role, we have no role in this. we have problems of our own, pertaining to our economy. why are we were rain about a

country that is thousands of miles away. many of these coups -- all they is blow back. it makes no sense. you have to recognize that and there are millions that still support these gaddafi regimes, even though he is not. nobody actually knows who the rebels are and what their agenda is. host: we will talk about that a little bit more with steve coming in about 15 minutes. who are the rebel forces and who is in that opposition government? the "washington times" on the oil situation in the country. the u.s. not likely to benefit from the drop in oil prices.

the "financial times" story. here is that a headline on oil. l.i., n.y., republican. caller: i am so tired of listening to the u.s. going out all over the world helping other countries. it is a lovely, but we are spending so much money in ways. what many in the u.s. have no jobs. we have so many problems and such high debt and risk spending all of this money outside of the country. i hope we are helping these people with their money not ours. we cannot help all of these people. that is why we are in such a big troubles. it is nice to hate -- help these people, but they hate as anyway. host: here is another view. .

-- viewpoint. we cut to a democrat in philadelphia. caller: i believe our role should decrease as r as involvement and increase more so towards these spectators. where we are just observing. we are monitoring the level of terrorism -- key points like that period. imposing our government, they will not accept it. i think we have enough issues right now that we need to focus on. the enemy is becoming too big in my opinion. [unintelligible]

host: let me get your take on the "washington post" this morning. look at since the benefits if libya moves towards democracy. the momentum will help in tunisia and egypt.

host: i say what needs to happen is that we still need to decrease in our roles. but what is happening is there is a true interest in monopolizing this entire world. everything going to become republican or democrat? we see how it is working out in r own country. host: the "baltimore sun." forces shot down three people. the u.n. says the death toll from the crack down on protests and had reached 2200. here is the "washington post"

reinvigorating the arab spring movement. it boosted other popular uprisings in the region. many have seen their momentum stalled since the early days of the era of spring. thousands of anti-government demonstrations were cracked down. -- demonstrators defiea crackdown and were . and here is the business section of the "new york tim" this morning. here is a piece in the money section of "usa today. " who is to pay for prescription drugs? we started a series this week looking at medicare and the

different aspects of it. during our last hour of the "question journal" we will look at it today and the cost of prescription drug programs, which will be the topic of wednesday's program. today, medicare advantage, is coming up later on today. program a community's -- and the community's program. it would look at 300,000 deportation cases and to give those in charge the authority to decide who can stay in the country. we will have a roundtable discussion on that coming up here on the "washington journal." and talking about politics for 2012 and the battle for the senate beginning to take shape.

one person will run for an open seat in connecticut in 2012. and the two people, announced that they will not run. it came days after elizabeth warren said she is formingn exploratory committee to face of senator scott brown. next, a republican and in pennsylvania. what is your take for the next role of u.s. in libya? caller: our role should be turnedver to britain and france and the other european countries and the enforcers of the no-fly zone. republicans in congress did not authorize this milary action. there is stuff going on.

there are reports from advisers on the ground. they need to proceed with impeachment proceedings on president obama. that is why the act of 1973 was produced for. the american people did not want this war. this involvement has gotten deeper and deeper and is escalating. we have more unrest and the destabilizations. host: here is "usa today." they write to this. -- they write this.

what is your reaction? caller: we had no business going in there. we violated pakistan. this free fire zone with the drones -- i have been emailing in addition contact with senator kasey about it. -- a in contact with senator kasey about it. some have been protesting this from thetart, but our mainstream media has not picked up on it. [unintelligible] this guy gets a free pass on

1600 pennsylvania avenue on everything he does. it is time for the american people and the people of congress stand up to this guy. we are paying for it. we are borwing the money from these countes. it is leading to escalation and escalation. this fight in libya is far from over. host: we covered a lot of different hearings and testimonies from different people as well as the senator's views on the situation in libya. c-to our web site anon span.org. let's see what gop candidates had to say about the situation is in libya. rick perry says it is cause for

celebration. mitt romney says that the first act of the new government should arrest and extradite the lockerbie bomb so justice can finally be done. chelle bauman said i hope that our intervention there is about to end -- michele bachmann said i hope that our intervention there is about to end. next, and general freer -- jennifer, in riverview,

california. caller: i am a first-time caller. i always watched the show. obama is claiming he wants to get everybody out of iraq and afghanistan. now we are over there in libya. we have all of these budget cuts overere. every time you look at the news, there are cuts for our schools and our kids. we do not have the money to send 850 million over there to unite a country. they are not interested in uniting. they have something we want. we cannot get it willingly, so we are going to take it. why are we always the one point two over countries and taking it over? don't we 0 china however much money? why are they the ones going over and helping all of these other

countries? it does not make any sense to me. it is always the u.s. i agree with some of your previous callers. it is always the u.s. going over. it is the same thing that happened over in panama. i am panamanian. it is the same thing. host: we showed earlier u.s. involvement in operation libya. about 820 million in the elite military operations through june 30. 22 million in ammunition parts sold to the allies. 12.5 milon in meals and etc. given to the allies. then aircraft flown. bombs, missiles, predator strikes. this is from the "washington times" today.

this figure when you look at overall nato operations, about 19,877orties flown over libya. you can compare and contrast nato at large involvement with what u.s. military operations have been. north carolina, repuican. caller: first-time caller. not 1 ounce of u.s. blood or treasury should be spent in libya. i understand the fact that this is part of the nato operation. we also have to be mdful that these are the same people that

-- when the plane returned. we cannot get so far into wanting to establish this new democracy. [unintelligible] i did 22 years in the military. we will always be needed in those types of countries. host: this is what one person rights. -- wris. caller: i completely agree. our president gets a bad rep. i did not necessarily vote for president obama.

he said early on this country would have to make sacrifices, because there are certain things that our previous president had brought us to. we had afghanistan and iraq. i served in both of those countries. you are exactly righ president obama was smart. we had an initial involvement. i know we are still in giving sorties, but we did not lose american lives. anything that we do, humanitarian aid, money will have to be put into this country. we did the same thing with haiti, and the same thing after this a numbing -- tsunami in singapore and those areas. to know not bebe naive

that things will cost money. >> video from libya. the associated press has reported hundreds of rebels have stormed it more costly -- stormed muammar gaddafi's compound in tripoli. we will try to keep posted on developments from libya. you can watch online this morning's news conference from nato and our video library at c- span.org. the history of debt and its impact on the world over thousands of years. this will be live at booktv.org

. we begin at 8:00 p.m. with an coulter -- ann coulter. every night this week beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern. >> the c-span networks available to you on radio and online and on social media sites. search, watch, and share any time with our video library. we bring our resources to local communities and showing events.

it is washington your way. the c-span networks, provided as a public service. louis sullivan said the health system needs to be more efficient and less bureaucratic. he talked about cost and strategies to eliminate health disparities. he spoke at the institute for the advancement of multi- cultural and minority medicine. this is in honor of the martin luther king memorial in washington. this is about 55 minutes. >> dr. sullivan served from 1989 until 1993, where he took on big

tobacco and the scourge of hiv. founded the prestigious morehouse school of medicine in atlanta. he earned his doctor of medicine degree at the boston university school of medicine in 1958. he completed his residency at cornell medical center in new york. he did some work at the new jersey college of medicine while teaching at harvard medical school. this was before becoming the co- director of hematology at boston university medical center. he founded the boston university hematology service at boston city hospital. that was until 1995. that's when he founded the medical educational program at morehouse college.

dr. sullivan has received dozens of honor in degrees and has been honored by many diverse organizations such as the seventh leadership -- southern christian leadership conference and the national association of minority educators. dr. sullivan and his wife have three children. i now would like to introduce to you, hon. dr. louis sullivan. >> thank you very much. it is a great pleasure and honor to be here with all of you to see where we are in terms of health equity. i have enjoyed the presentations so far today. it is important.

we look forward to the unveiling of the sculpture in honor of martin luther king jr.. this gives this conference special significance. i happen to have been about 10 feet away from martin luther king jr. in 1963 when he gave his talk here at the lincoln memorial. the other part of the -- my wife and i were here for the inauguration for the first african american president, mr. obama. we have made significant progress in our country. we still have a lot to accomplish. that depends upon a lot of people. it depends upon us to indeed put the issues before the country, to lobby for those things which need to be done, to lend support

to those who have ideas that we think are important and to see that those individuals are put in positions of authority and power. a comment made earlier today about getting politics out of medicine -- i agree with dave wallace said the issue is getting the right political decisions made. in a democracy, politics is intrinsic to our system. we must have individuals who know the issues and are committed to improvement and who are willing to commit their leadership, their reputations and energies to solving the problems. that is what is important. let me make a side comment. i want to thank roger for this book on paul rogers that was here when we arrived today.

he represented one of the things that we lack today. a leader in congress who has the capacity, the intellect, the commitment, and the political will to make things happen. there are a number of things that happened during his tenure of -- while a member of congress. we do not have the individuals in congress who make that their number one primary priority, who are able to convince their fellow members of the legislature that this is something that is not a self interest, but something that is important for the nation as a whole. health touches everything. everything else is secondary. we're concerned about what is happening or not happening in our health-care system. we need to have more people like paul rodgers to help in the

decisionmaking process in the congress as well as in the administration. the title of my talk is americas during -- journey to health equity. this is an overview of what is happens in the past century, where we are now and what our projections are for the future. we are at an inflection point and this gives us an opportunity to make a comment. the next slide -- you have heard about the martin luther king comments he made in chicago in 1966 about the inequality. the next slide shows where we are as a country today in terms of our spending on health care. wheat out rank all the nations by far in the dollars we spent

in our health care system. when i came to washington in 1989, it was 11% of gnp. this is now in excess of $2 trillion, close to $2.4 trillion that is being spent some 20 years later. thank you very much. so we are really having a problem with runaway costs in our health-care system, as shown by this slide, comparing us with other nations, yet we don't have

the best health outcomes in our country. comparing us with other countries in the world. those costs are escalating. some 18% -- 16% compared to 11% in 1989. it was 6.5% went medicare and medicaid were instituted in 1965. you can see we have tripled the percentage of gnp going to health services over the last 50 years. we have fallen far short of what our needs are. this slide shows compared to other nations, we did not do well in terms of infant mortality. we are out ranked by most other western countries. spending money alone is not enough. we have to have the

infrastructure, participation by our population. such simple things as pregnant mothers coming to see their obstetricians in the first trimester of pregnancy. we need a system that works and individuals who know the things that they must do in order to enhance and preserve their health. the disparities in health status between white population and the minority populations contributed to almost 900,000 excess deaths over 83-year period. -- over a three-year period. this slide shows what has happened over the past century. at the time of 1906, major

causes of death were tuberculosis, pneumonia, and malnutrition. by 1985, you will see these infectious problems have been replaced by chronic diseases -- cancer, cardiovascular disease. a similar pattern exists today in the report health, united states, from the cdc in 2010. we have made progress in our own mortality rates. there has been improvement in mortality by all segments of our population, what is striking is the way these slides do not cross.

block mortality has -- black mortality has declined. the disparities that existed 30 or 50 years ago still exist, though all of us are healthier. we must do better with our minority populations and the poor to address those things that contribute to mortality. the native american population is less complete in the last 30 or 40 years. you see parallel improvements in mortality rates in all of these populations. life expectancy at birth has improved over the course of the 20th century. the lines are parallel and do not cross.

in the 1900's, life expectancy was 47 years for whites and less than 40 years for blacks. today, it is approaching 80 years for white females and almost 70 years for black males. all of these lines have improved. you do not see much closing of the gaps. some slight closing but much more needs to be done. the report from the public health service in 2010 on health care qualities and disparities shows that while access and quality are sub optimal for minorities and lower income groups, quality of care is improving. access to care is not improving.

we must do more. many things impinge upon this. we have not talked about today about health manpower. we're going to bring in 32 morm illion more people into the system. we need professionals to take care of those individuals. in massachusetts, we have seen what happened when we do set up an insurance mechanism so people have and insurance card to pay for care. there are now winning times of six to seven weeks to see a primary physician because of inadequate manpower to address these needs in massachusetts. if we do not address this issue nationwide, we will see similar issues of people having health

insurance card but having difficulty getting health services. we need to address that. i am pleased that we're giving more attention to prevention and health promotion. we will never gauge -- if we never engage our citizens in prevention, we will not solve the problem of cost control, nor will we see it maximal improvement in the health of our citizens. we need a system that works, having facilities and all the things that are needed, but we must have citizens that no proper nutrition, exercise, childhood immunizations, all the things if we're to achieve maximum health. the higher levels of education

attendance, the higher in health they are. we must address them all simultaneously if we are to see improvements in the health of all segments of our population. this slide gives a view of the various reports that have been issued over the years concerning health equity in the united states. the first being the publication in 1906 by dubois, where he was the first scholar to draw attention to the very close link between health status and poverty, when he was looking at the health of african americans in the population, he emphasized the role of poverty in affecting health. the report in 1985 by secretary

heckler. a comment on that report. as was mentioned, in march of 1983, the association of minority health professional schools met with secretary heckler at present it to her report called blacks in the 1980 black health professionals in the 1980's, a national crisis and a tie for action. that report was written by an analyst for the association. that report was the stimulus for the secretary to then appoint her own departmental committee, headed by tom malone who was then deputy director of the national institutes of health and the senior african-american in the department. that committee that, malone chaired then issued the report,

this report, which came out in august of 1985, almost two and a half years after we met with secretary heckler and got her commitment to address this issue, and we're very pleased that that happened. it is as a result of that report being issued in 1985, she indeed established the office for minority health in the office of the secretary, and it was that same year. when you correct for differences, african-americans still receive less optimal care than whites, showing bias in the system, often unconscious bias, with that being the quality of care that individuals received. then in 2004, the report from

the commission that i chaired looking at health manpower issues and the issue of diversity, a report called missing persons: minorities in the health professions, pointing out that while we have made progress in the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, during the 1990's, we plateaued in showed signs of slipping back in terms of minority representation in the health professions. we look at medicine, nursing, dentistry, public health, and psychology. a number of other reports have come out that i would draw your attention to, to the last two on the lower right. first, the memoir by dr. justice white, who as you know established the orthopedic service at the hospital during his career. i believe that was in the late 1980's or early 1990's. but dr. white has become very committed to addressing the

issue of health disparities. in this well-written memoir of his life, talking about health disparities, i recommend that to all of you, because i think it summarizes many of the issues that we confront in the system now and shows how he, having growing up in a segregated environment in memphis, really became one of our nation's outstanding physicians and leaders in orthopedics and now one of our leaders in the area of health disparities. and the book on the right was recently issued by dr. richard williams, internist at ucla, on health disparities and the effect of health reform in addressing health disparities. so there have been a number of publications over the years to address the issue and that helps keep the attention focused, but we need to that action by our leaders, but in the government as well as in the private sector to address this.

the next two slides simply summarize some of the things that have happened over the years in addressing the issues of disparities in health status and disparities in the number of minorities in the health professions and lack of health insurance, all of those that have impinged upon the disparities in health status that continue to exist today. during the second half of the 20th century, because of the very act of civil rights activities, we did see some improvement in many areas. first of all, legislation enacting medicare and medicaid in the 1960's, improvement in the percentage of minorities entering the health profession so far from what was hoped would be achieved, we did see some improvement. as i note on this slide, in 1983, we met with secretary

heckler and presented her with this report that led her to have her own internal departmental committee studied this issue and come up with the hechler report in august of 1985. we also saw the first asian- pacific islander health forum established. then in 1989, it was my honor to be appointed secretary of health and human services. in 1990, was pleased to establish the office for research and minority health at nih. dr. reiskin, who is brought to my office by the acting head of nih. dr. rogan was appointed to head the office, and he has continued in that leadership issue. the office was elevated in january of 2000, some 10 years later. then this past year, 2010, with the passage of health reform legislation.

the center was elevated to an institute. [applause] several of us met with francis collins about the desire and need and imperative to elevate the the center to an institute. dr. collins, is response was, well, the center has all the prerogatives and abilities that an institute has, so why do you need this? our response was, well, if it has all of those authorities and responsibilities, it is an institute, so why not call it an institute? [laughter] so congress agreed with us and indeed passed legislation to establish this national institute for minority health and health disparities research. so we're very pleased with that. also, it was not too long and that we had our first minority

surgeon general, who had previously been the director of the national institute of child health and human development at nih. so the first woman and first hispanic to serve as the surgeon general. and dr. bernadine healy was the first woman to serve as director of nih and establish to the women's health initiative at that time and really helped to show that women suffered from heart attack, stroke, and other diseases were there were thought to be somewhat immune from them. so dr. healy did a number of things to address women's health, but also minority health. she appointed the first african- american director at one of the institutes of nih. dr. kenneth though disappointed the national director of the institute of environmental health sciences.

that, as well of and support for the office of research in minority health commission contributed quite a bit. we will comment briefly on -- i already commented on the sullivan commission report. what we needed died september of 2004 when we issued this report, which was supported by the kellogg foundation, was that while we had made progress in increasing diversity in the health professions, that progress was far from what we had expected would occur during the 1960's, 1970's, and the 1980's. in 1950, 2% of america's physicians were african- american. by 1990, that was 4.3%. one could say that one hand doubled the percentage, but we double from a very small base. whereas african-americans represented at that time some

12% of the population, they still fell short of the representation in the general population. why is that important? because the doctor and her colleagues at the university of california in san francisco reported in the new england journal of medicine in 1996 that black or hispanic physicians or three to five times more likely to establish their practices in the bario or the ghetto. they were much more likely to have high medicaid populations among their patients, much higher non-paying patient population as well. so it is not a question of simply numbers, but the kinds of positions that we serve. she shows that the practice patterns, minority physicians were different than white physicians. and if we were serious about doing everything we could to address the health needs of minority populations, we have to be concerned about the quality of the input into our system, the kind of individuals who are in the system if we're going to

see that all segments of our population are well-served. there have been a number of studies since that time confirming those findings by the doctor and her colleagues. this slide shows the 10 great public health achievements of the united states as reported by the cdc. you can see many of them -- one question is, well, what does that have to do with help? motor vehicle safety, for example. we have four times as many cars on the road today as we did 50 years ago, but the number of deaths from motor vehicle accidents is not increase store increased only modestly. that is because cars are designed at to be safer. seat belt use has now increased. when i went to washington in 1989, an average of 47% of jurors used seat belts. legislation and activities in

various states were under way so that now that is close to 90% of drivers using a seat belts, so that if someone is in an accident in a car, they're much less likely to be killed. the injuries much less severe. in motor vehicle safety, it is one of the things that contributes to the improvement in health. safer workplaces. the effect of the environment that we live in, whether we have clean air and water, and more. all of these are important help advances as recognized by cdc during the 20th century that have helped to improve the health of our citizens. this slide it is really a commentary on medical education system. as you know, in 1908, there was

a commissioned by the carnegie foundation to evaluate all the medical schools in the united states. in the early part of the 20th century, we had never proprietary medical schools. there were no uniform standards of medical education. over a two-time span, he visited each one of these schools and roads a report. those of you have not read it, i recommend it. it makes for very interesting reading. usually he describes a medical school in perhaps a page or a page and a half or less, and some of the language is very colorful. such as, never in my experience have i seen anything so disgraceful masquerading as a high educational institution as this miserable example. [laughter] its trustees should to the public a service and put it out of its misery. ell, because of flexner's report, would got plenty of tension, the number of medical schools decreased to 80. accreditation standards had

begun in the year 1914 and 1915. a number of other things happened. among the things that happened, there were seven predominantly black medical schools in existence. only two of those survived, howard and the hairy. the other schools were considered to be subpar. many of the schools had been operated for profit by their owners, many of whom are physicians. so the process of improving medical education started very dramatically with that report, but flexner also during his time tried to justify support for howard and the other school busing we need to have sanitariums to take care of the health needs in the black community, such things as tuberculosis which could be passed to the white community. it is justification for predominately black medical schools was protection of the help of the white population. well, i would love to get into

the mind of dr. flexner, whether he was doing this for political reasons or whether he really meant what he said. i think it is not known, but at least those two schools were indeed preserved among the nation's medical schools after that time. johns hopkins was a model that he held up as a model for medical education, because at least the admissions requirements were that you had to have at least a high-school diploma, preferably one two years of college education, to enter medical school. and they also have a curriculum structured with the science is being taught basic to medicine, followed by the clinical sciences. so that pilot which is still called the flexnarian model of medical education at a great role in improving the medical education system in the country. we could say that the u.s. had the strongest health profession

education system of any country in the world, where you draw people from all over the world to come to our country now for training often not available in their own countries. then with the establishment of the national institutes of health, we can say the same about our research enterprise. that is reflected by the fact that throughout the course of the 20th century, more nobel prizes in physiology and medicine have come to a scientist and american laboratories than in the rest of the world combined. so it has leadership in science from the institutes of health and leadership in the quality of medical education. but, as you can see from this slide, we still are under represented in the overall health professions population. more than 30% of the u.s. population now is either hispanic americans, african-

americans, native american, or asia-pacific islander. but when you look at the health professions, you can see that only 12.3% of physicians come from one of these groups. 11% of nurses, a 10% of pharmacists, and 7% of dentists. as we look forward, the u.s. census bureau has predicted by 2042, there will no longer be a white majority population in our country. we're going to read the demographic shift in our country. it has been emphasized in shown that goldblatt confidence among our health professionals is important. we have that individuals or scientifically well-drained, but we also must be sure that they can communicate this knowledge in a way that is understood, tested, and that is acted upon by their patients. i often say that we need to have those well trained scientists to operate very well

in a social system. having the knowledge alone and not been able to utilize it effectively is not sufficient. we need to have both good science and good sociology among our health professionals. this slide shows the percentage of our physicians by race today as approved, but we still lack the kind of representation that is needed. the same with medical school faculty. we have an even greater shortage of the minorities among our nation's health professions faculty. we need to have much more diverse faculty, because of mentoring, counseling, and the role models of these individuals serve within our educational system. so that is a very important consideration. finally, you heard about the recent article published last friday in science magazine, and

that this shows the outcome of that study. this study by the professor at the university of kansas, but also with the former deputy director of nih. this is what they found one that looked at the likelihood of success of various applicants for ro1 grants from nih. for whites applying for the first time, 29% were successful. but when you look at african- americans, you see roughly half as many african-americans were successful with first-time applicants. as you have already heard, the percentage of those applicants who then applied for a second time for a grant is much lower among the african-american population. i think there may be a number reasons for that. one is that many of these

scientists come from institutions. it those applicants are not successful, the institution does not have the resources to support that individual to try for a second time. that process may take up to a year. so those individuals that have to seek other ways to support themselves, and i think that that is one of the reasons, as well as the fact with a number of minorities already being concerned as to whether the system is fair, they often will take a turn down as a conversation -- confirmation of their suspicion that indeed it is not fair and they decide, well, why try again, and they indeed pursue other fields. this slide simply shows the progress we have made over the last 50 years 60 years in the percentage of african-americans graduating from u.s. medical school. you'll see that starting in the late 1960's -- and this is after the assassination of martin

luther king, jr. those of you who are old enough to remember, in 1968, following martin luther king's assassination, universities and various colleges and professional schools examined themselves as to where they were. i was on the faculty at boston university. i graduated in 1958 as the one black student in my class. so 10 years later, being on the faculty, there were three black students in the class. and i thought as a member of the faculty, you know, you may call this progress, but this is really not the kind of progress that is really going to get us anywhere. so there are a number of things that happened and universities all over the country. so the result of that was the improvement in the percentage of minorities of african-americans, hispanics, and others being admitted to medical schools we and special programs that we developed at boston university. for example, thanksgiving

weekend in 1968, we had a program which 24 black students, one for me to the 24 black colleges in the south, to come for a long weekend in boston were we had representatives from the medical schools at harvard, tufts, vermont, dartmouth, boston university, university of massachusetts. we told those students, we're very much interested in your coming to our institution, giving them all of the information. so the following year, rather than one, we had seven entering freshmen. a similar experience with the other medical schools. similar kinds of things were going on all over the country. but something like this needs to be sustained. you'll see that things plateaued. again, the aamc project at 3000 by 2000 implemented in the late 1980's. we saw some bond there. but you can see that primarily since the late 1970's, when

cheverly drifted sideways. so we need to really do much more to address the issue of diversity in the health professions. well, what about the challenges for the 21st century? there are many. but i summarized some of the major ones. first of all, improved access to health services for all. the task is not over. we have members of congress now who have tried to undo what has been cited with health system reform. we need to be sure that we do not lose ground. we need to build on what has been done. what has been done thus far today, an imperfect bill. many improvements need to be made, but we certainly need to move forward from where we are. the emphasis on health promotion and disease prevention is very important. we need to have our citizens participating actively in this process. we need to have more diversity of our health professionals, including primary care providers

in our inner cities and rural areas. also, mid-level providers as well. we must undergo a reshuffling of responsibilities among our health professionals in we are to see that citizens do get adequate access to health care. we also need to have a more efficient health system that is less bureaucratic. that is very challenging because congress and state legislatures and others often put various regulatory issues on the health system in an effort to try and do good, but it really causes problems and expenses in the health system. we already talked earlier about political issues. as i said, we need less political ideologies and your legal intrusions into the health system. one of the great challenges now is the overlay of the reliability risk in the health system. so we need to address that in ways that we can ensure our citizens that everything will be

done to get high-quality care. but still, we're dealing with biological beings. we cannot guarantee a perfect outcome. if something goes wrong, does not automatically mean that someone did something wrong. we have to find ways to address that to see that things are done in the right way. of their not done, see that there is a proper discipline. but not really have a russian roulette kind of system. but simply drives physicians and hospitals to try to cover the waterfront with every possible test they can think of, not for medical reasons but for reliability reasons. pat had -- ads cost, a bureaucracy, an inconvenience to the system. we need to continue to address the highest ethical standards in our system. we can do much more today than we could 50 years ago. that also means that we have to be much more careful as we tend to infringe on some ethical issues and people's personal

religious beliefs. that is an ongoing challenge that we have going forward. finally, as our technology grows in the health system, we must not lose our humanity. because, ultimately, part of the healing process is the relationship between the health professionals and the individual seeking services. a skillful -- is still remember being in laboratories when i was a medical student showing the power of placebo. one of my laboratory partners received an injection of this clear liquid. we had just add lectures about the autonomic nervous system. but he was convinced that he was getting adrenaline, and yet all the symptoms. rapid pulse, sweating, nausea, extender, and he disappeared for three days. [laughter] we had to call an injury was still alive. the next week, we found out

that he had isotonic saving rather than adrenaline. the point is, there is a value added by the relationship between the health professional and the provider. at the individual trusts the health professional and believes that that person is knowledgeable and has his or her interest, that contributes to the healing process. we must never let technology replacing humanism involved in the health-care system. that is something we have to guard against, but as we go forward into this 21st century with our growing technology, growing at zero issues, we hope that if we are successful in maintaining humanism and the system as well as incorporating sections by our citizens themselves, than 100 years from now, hopefully the kinds of data we're looking at today will not exist and we will have a

healthier, more prop -- prosperous population. thank you. [applause] >> he has kindly agreed to take a few questions. if we have any, let's go ahead and ask from the floor. sir? >> your presentation showed how health care costs are growing faster in this country than any other country. you also show that there are disparities are not narrowing -- [inaudible] we also know that health care spending is 25% to 30% which is avoidable or unnecessary. isn't there a human vision, a system, where the savings in the health-care system can be

captured and redirected to the determinants of health, so that they can be systematically addressed? bit i think it is part of a whole integrated system. >> thank you so much for your question. the short answer is yes. but as it has been common to not earlier today, we have a system that is dysfunctional in a number of ways. first of all, i forgot who this morning made it, that if you continue doing the same thing, you'll be surprised by getting the same results. one of the things we have today right now is a shortage of primary-care physicians. i maintain that one of the reasons for that is this, we try to recruit bright young people to become physicians. but we put them in a system where they have to go into debt so that the graduate of wheat $150,000. that is because we made a change as a nation in our system in the

mid-1970's. i the 1960's and early 1970's, there were many sources of scholarship rate -- support for our students. but it was decided that health professionals, because their high earners in the population, should pay for their own education out of future earnings, therefore borrowing to go to medical, dental, or other health professions schools. that is why, today, and we have national defense did a loan program, the health professions did it alone program, and more, because it was recognized that we, as a nation, need to invest in the manpower we needed to address the needs of the population. well, that change really is a good example of the law of unintended consequences. because what has happened is that we have loaded this expense on our students. so those who are successful and going to the system are faced with repaving 150,000, $in debt.

when they finished training, they're trying to establish an office. they have a mortgage and the family. so they say we are going to the rural areas of the primary care, or they might earn $120,000, when their colleagues to go to orthopedics could earn $750,000. so i personally have many students say, i would love to the primary care, but i cannot afford it. that is a systemic problem that we really set up a system to operate that way. beyond that, i am convinced, on the basis of an informal survey we did a decade ago and morehouse school of medicine, we have set up a system now that frightens the way low-income students. at that time, the average family income of african-americans in the country was around $23,000. the average income of our entering class at morehouse, a

predominantly african-american institution, is $48,000. that says to me that we're not getting really poor students. we're getting the students who really decided that maybe this is a real possibility. but poor students said that this is not the opening. ok, i am is supposed to take out loans? what i do not make it to medical school? one of five children in a family making $50,000, how can i expect my parents are others to support me? that is one of the systemic problems. high loan debt, low compensation for primary care physicians. that says to our country, since we are capitalistic system, that we tend to attribute value to income or earning capacity. this is the primary care is less the value. that is something that needs to change. we need to work for cognitive- based services as well as the four procedurally-based services.

it was said this morning that was set up a system to pay for procedures. we should really be paying for good health outcomes rather than that. those are some of the dysfunctional things in the system. so if we address those, and if we also do a better job of informing our citizens of those things that they must do, simple things such as regular exercise, proper diet, and more, vaccinations for the children. because when i was secretary, i was going around the philadelphia, fresno, dallas, san diego talking to groups or we had measles outbreaks. and we had deaths from measles and encephalitis because failure of the immunization of our children. we had the vaccines. this is where the science was there. but the spending or the community was not there. that is what i mean when i say with to make sure that our citizens know those things that they must do themselves.

if we can do that, then the savings indeed can go into other areas. what we have now is unsustainable in terms of the cost escalation. so we have to make those multiple changes. >> let's take one more question, please. ma'am? >> i am from mississippi en i am prevacid that i am did not occupy it is a should. we have a new deal in mississippi and a baptist university. the first year we received about 1200 applications for 100 seats. this year, the second year, we have received 1700 applications for the same 100 seats. the need is there. the people are willing. as a side note, as a physician training doctors in my office, they have got to learn how to do a good physical examination. because you will withdraw some of the unnecessary testing

simply because you know how to examine the patient. the third piece of this is the college president and the mississippi william carey university that houses the school came to the dene and said, how many democrats have you got in this year's class? [laughter] the dean said, but sir, we do not take political parties into consideration. he said, you know, democrats like obama. we happened at 10% black students at that university that first year. that is what dr. king was getting -- dr. king happens to be the president of the college. that is what he was getting at. >> that is an example of the fact that whereas we have made good progress in some areas, many other areas, we have not. so we have to indeed address those kinds of issues.

so whereas there have been improvements, there's still many challenges. unfortunately, some of those will simply take time to demonstrate to the population that those students of the school, and give services to the community. the negative thought process could change. one other comment i would make, too, is a severe injury to buy, i am many of you saw the article a couple weeks ago about the new world medical school in salinas, kansas worsteds are being trained in rural areas with the hope and expectation that there will stay in rural areas. i believe the students amid such a commitment. the other feature of the school is that there is no tuition. so they would not load on to those students a heavy debt burden that might draw them away from a rural area to an urban area where the income potential could be much greater. we're following that with

interest. someone told mean -- cleveland clinic, i was told, is starting a new medical school where there is no tuition for the students. so that is really something we will be following with great interest. i began as a nation, we have made a serious mistake by simply letting the tuition issue get out of control at this time that we have undercut student financial aid and then expecting the students to be hit by the way we want them to behave, rather than be hitting as rational thinking human beings who have to discharge its financial obligation that they have incurred during their years at health profession school. >> dr. sullivan, it has been more than a privilege to have you. thank you so much. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> dr. sullivan speaking ahead of this weakens dedication of the martin luther king, jr.,

memorial here in the nation's capital that began in 2006. the dedication on sunday at the memorial, sculpted by a chinese artist. this is the first memorial on the national mall to honor an african-american and the first memorial to be set up for a person who did not serve as president. we will give you a look at some of the video we shot this week at the memorial site. >> to stay reminder, c-span will bring you live coverage this sunday of the official opening of the martin luther king, jr., memorial. it gets underway sunday at 11. president obama and others will speak. we expect all of that to get under way sunday at 11:00 eastern, and we will have a light on c-span, c-span.org, and you can follow it as well on c-

span radio. [bells ringing] >> notice the color of the bourbon, that pretty amber color that you see is all coming from the jar on the inside of the barrel. this char is or bourbon gets all of its color and a lot of its flavor. currently, the discovered over chemical200 flavors just in the oak and the char from the barrel. >> this meeting, we highlight

frankfurt, kentucky encore des "booktv" in american history tv. throughout the weekend, look for the history and literary life of the kentucky state capital. on quality "booktv" on c-span2. and douglas boyd on frankfurt's crawfished bottom. kent masterson brown on the life of the ninth kennedy calvary soldier. american history to be on c- span3, a visit to buffalo trace distiller, one of only four distiller is in operation during prohibition for minnesota purposes. and the first of state houses burned to the ground. and then the third, the old state capital. " the "booktv" and american history tv in frankfort, ky this weekend on c-span2 and c-span3. >> here on c-span, we're showing a video from just the last few minutes. this is reportedly inside the compound in tripoli, libya. nbc is reporting that richard

ingle says that the rebels have captured the gaddafi compound. this is video just in, courtesy of al jazeera. >> this is what some people have told me on the streets. the people who benefit did from gaddafi lived here. there those who benefit from the government but there those who simply have nothing for the past 40 years. for them, being able to push through those gates and into the compound as a lot of symbolic meaning. >> of course, as we see these pictures of the smoke billowing from one part of the tripoli and -- >> again, al jazeera video from the last few minutes with nbc and other news organizations reported that the rebels have captured the compound in tripoli. we will keep you updated. next up on c-span, syrian president bashar al-assad in a recent interview. he dismissed u.s. and european

calls for him to step down, saying he was chosen by the cra people, not the west, as the five month uprising in his country has continued. president assad said syria could withstand mounting international sanctions. this was part of an interview with syria's state-run tv on sunday. here is a 40-minute portion. >> some people say the way the regime dills with the situation is a security solution -- [inaudible] >> we have been discussing these topics several times. the security choice was not the only one. we need to look at it politically. even those countries to launch wars with their army are aiming

to achieve a political board. we need to keep the country safe. we need to be accurate. the situation is syria is a political solution. we need to solve it politically. but when it comes to the security situation, we need to be against terrorism. we need to be tough. and we need to be able and aware of the situation. this is what i want to say. we need to solve it politically. the political solution was our first choice of the very beginning. otherwise, we can solve it it militarily. but i can say that one week later, we made some reforms, and we offered some reforms. that shows that we're for the political solution. [unintelligible] >> days ago, there is a meeting of the baath central committee

and the representatives in the country. what is the results of this meeting? whether the major issues tackled and discussed in this meeting? >> some expect these meetings to result in a big thing, but it is a meeting for the hierarchy of the baath party, the ruling baath party, and it is natural to have all these meetings. it is not a meeting that is normal, but it is related to the situation in the country. we have not had such a meeting since the beginning. we expressed a lot of things. we explained so many points. we explained to the hierarchy where we are now.

on the other side, we talked about the reforms that we offered and the lows i spoke about in my speech at damascus university. later on, in the future, we will discuss the constitution, which is a vital point. we have to listen to them and we have to meet them to see how they express the points of views. another point, the baath party formulated the past in the future of syria. so had some discussion about the mechanisms through which we can support the party activities during the future. >> your excellency, the meeting, you discussed the reforms and the lows, including the

national dialogue. what is the national dialogue now? >> it is not just during the recent period with the sort of misunderstanding of -- [unintelligible] at the very beginning, i thought through my meetings with the citizens to have a dialogue on at the levels. but people are having some doubts. we decided to have essential dialogue. this dialogue just came up before the reforms and before the constitution. because we need to know the street and how the street thinks the people -- how do they think? because of their models and samples of the syrian people. we know that a sample, but we need to make sure about how they feel so as to be able to reach

these set of laws and reforms. we're on the way to implement them with a time limit. we're in a temporary time. there will be elections. there'll be a revision of the constitution. these sets of reforms will be discussed. and this period is critical and very sensitive. the most important thing is to continue our national dialogue. we have decided up to the set of reforms are lawrence to -- are launched, to attack the social things, the social services, as well, and the parties have to have some time to implement all these things. we need some time, yes. but the dialogue during the transitional time is quite important, and we are preparing

for a dialogue. >> your excellency to me spoke about the constitution. some are asking that an amendment of item number aid to the constitution. your speech make people understand that the constitution as a whole might be discussed. is this the situation now up to the meeting with the committee of the baath party? >> this is one of the most important points discussed by the central committee during that meeting. some of the attendance asked to amend item number 8, which is about the political together with another item related to each other. the change that them is not quite logic. to change other items is not be there. these items are quite related with item number 8, and they'll

constitute the political regime in syria. consequently, we need to tackle every item within the framework of the whole items. it is important to review the whole constitution. either item number 8 or the other items. this is the idea now that we have. >> your excellency, if you go back to the elections, with the procedures that are to be applied? do we have an apartment time limit to implement these laws on the ground? >> we have an accurate time table within a few coming days until thursday regarding the

party lost. the concern committee that will discuss the applicants -- by the way, the committee is formed by the interior minister and three other independent personalities. we had these names in front of us. the decree will be issued within the next few days. regarding the parties, the election is related and also related to the local administration nationwide. this would be tackled during the next few days so as to have an example be it -- executive decree regarding this. you can expect something new for the syrian people. yes, technically we can say that there's something new. this is known.

to implement the new low -- we're going to apply the same old way. we're going to talk about a new political system, new ambitions, new mechanisms. people are applying this are looking for this within the past. the question is how to push the young people in our institutions and said the country, and said the country. the young people, as i have noticed during my meetings with them during the last month, there's sort of a feeling within the young people that they're isolated or marginalized. this is not a good feeling. a young men or young woman needs energy. if he feels that he is depressed or marginalized, this is not good. you need to think within a new way to involve those young men, young women, young people within

the system. when it -- they have to have a role. the half-dozen to do. they might have less experience, but have something to do. this is the most important thing that we can develop through it. >> my question, sir, is about the next period. it will be a politically motivated period. whether the mechanisms of applying these laws and decrees with in the time limit and how the elections will be done, and how about that chant of the constitution? >> up to the moment, we have issued three decrees about the emergency law, elections, and the parties. within a few days, we will be having another decree to nominate the committee of the parties law.

and everyone who wants to have his own party or whichever group wants to have its own party, they will be able to form these parties. practically, we will be ready to accept applicants to four new parties in the country. the local and ministration law -- [unintelligible] within the next few days, will also be having something new. the local administration gives the minimum of 45 days for the next election. we will have 45 days for the next election. this made amendments and the local administration. the local administration has to have some time to be able to

achieve this new criteria. the local elections might be within three months from now or three months from the issuance of the law. >> we have also be media low, which might be issued before the end of ramadan. the committee will be formed to study and review the constitution. this committee needs at least three months. i do not think it will need more than six months. this is the accurate time limit the should be put in front of the committee itself to be able to discuss it and to be able to see what it needs.

then the parliamentary elections, there are some different points of views. from four months the eight months after issuing the executive instructions of the elections, and the aim is to get the opportunity to all parties to be formed and to be able to compete. speaking, six months would be ok to have the elections in february 2012. these sets of laws and regulations might be the end of a period of reforms. then we move to the applications and will have something other to say. >> within the reforms and lawns, your excellency, there's also

something about giving the nationality to the kurds. do think it is because there might be part of the crisis? >> to be honest, the first time we had this idea during the year 2000, i met some of them. we met the kurds and spoke about this. in that visit, i said, this is your right, and this is a humanitarian case, and we will deal with it. then we started the procedures. we started this scenarios and the potential and the shape and the form of the law. yet, it was not very quick. but we said, by the end of 2004, we might have reached something. some of the figures have tried

to make use of this issue, the issue of the citizenship to stop the rift between the arabs and the kurds. we started another round of investigation and talks. the reality is when we decided to issue this decree at the beginning of the events in syria, the decree was already there. we issued that decree because it was almost ready. it is needed my signature. this is the way. we cannot accuse the kurds of not being part of the country. we cannot deal with the kurds in a different way. this would turn them into -- [unintelligible] they are part of the syrian people. i said years ago that the kurds are part of the syrian context,

the syrian component. otherwise, syria would not be this area that we know and everyone knows. the kurds is not an immigrant. the curd is not -- the kurds are part of the syrian community. some are trying to play and politicize the issue. if you go back in our history, we will find some spots like this, and weekend say some of the leaders during french colonialism, some of the leaders were kurds. history says that. this is not the point, and we reject this. and we consider the national situation regarding the kurds and arabs is the same. >> your excellency, regarding the laws and decrees issued recently, some see reforms

within these. but some also say these reforms and decrease our only ink on paper. >> no, to be honest, i cannot say that. we cannot say that all the decrease our achievements. or all the decrees are ink and paper. let's talk about those people. we speak about resolutions and laws that did not achieve results on the ground. so we need to go to these and we need to see the formula of these lows. we need to even go into the linguistic aspect of these los so not to make the resolution weak. we might have some executive instructions. it might be useless.

and necessity to have a sort of balance between these laws and decrees. it is a series of laws and decrees. we cannot say that this will achieve this result. alas are implementing and helping each other. the set is there. we need to start with the priorities. we cannot start with number five in the black number one. i think the main solution is to expand the dialogue with all sects. the one who issued the decree or the law might discuss it with the lower layers in his institution in order to get the most delicate of the law. we need to make sure the people that will benefit fromhe