memoir >> predicting the jobless rate will remain around 9%. president obama presidential address. all setting the stage for the fall debate participate as

always this friday morning september 2, 624-111 for democrats. 624-1115 for republicans. 202-624-0760 for independents.

>> with that background and the unemployment rate hovering at about 2%. what's next.

how do you create jobs? bob is joining us from new york on the line for democrats. good morning to you. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i have a plan. if you allowed insurance companies that supplied business liability and workman's compensation policies to basically be in a position not to honor claims that involve the employment of undocumented workers. you could get legislation and workman's compensation policies that would force employers that would hire u.s. citizens and people here that can legitimately work and then

people not here legally and shouldn't be working, those jobs would open up and they'll have to get on the line to get the proper documentation to work in this country. you could put everybody back to work overnight. the federal government doesn't seem to enforce the laws on the book that make it illegal for companies to employ undocumented workers. there has to be another way to go about it. thank you for c-span. host: thank you from new york.

host: clawedy is next from virginia. welcome to the call. caller: my opinion is that republicans will do anything in naying. the president wants to create jobs. it is obvious they are posting whatever policies he wants to apply for to do so it is very sad what's going on in politics right now. way tomb people are employed or under employed and the only thing we talk about is cutting taxes. it doesn't make sense to me, really. host: thank you for the call. we'll go to the democratic line. unemployment rate likely to stay at the current level through

next year. caller: good morning. in the quad cities unemployment stands at 7.1% we are going to be able to hire 2400 people. we will make sure they are from the area making sure that will drop unemployment to about 6% and be getting the governor to do his part in the state of iowa, we feel we can get that down to 5%. these job also pay anywhere from $15 to $20 an hour. once you can get that down to 5%, which is real close to full

employme employment. taking the minimum wage jobs. if an individual gets minimum wage like someone said in techlt at $8, what does the person do to make up the other $8 he needs. it's like $16 an hour for a person to be able to live. they have to have another job. when they have that second job, who takes care of their kids? >> front page of the "new york times," u.s. set to sue a dozen big banks over mortgages.

>> we are focusing on jobs and the economy. the white house yesterday indicating that the jobless rate will stay at about 9% through 2012. next joining us on the republican line in kansas. caller: good morning.

you know, i don't know. out here, we are not really experts. it seems like there is some competing trends that really work against all of this. i saw it yesterday on c-span. the increasing number of americans getting rid of debt. i guess the debt has decreased over the last couple of years. on the order of seven or 8%. one of the things that came out of that was somebody in think tanks said there is somebody else to play. the economy is not chugging along, consumers aren't spending enough. we have that with homes. we have to build more homes. young people i meet particularly in the bigger cities are saying

i don't want to buy a home. i've seen what happened to my parents and grandparents. you have these competing trends. on the job side, i live here in a small town. it's like this year and probably other places. the desire to say they got to bring back manufacturing. as i see itting. way out of this is going to be a long haul. host: stay on the line. two headlines we want to share with you. the "new york times" says hopes for global recovery. also the front page story. let me read to you what the journal covered looking to

smaller, leaner companies to reinvigorate. there is room. i worked with fed ex for years. i got to see how the economy had

changed. how the small lean company actually become very competitive. when they went somewhere, the last thing they looked for was low wage they asked what skill does this person have? host: thank you for your call. can you join the conversation on line at twitter domenici/c-span-wj. one of our regular tweeters referring to gm as government motors. considering expanding in tolied. >> we have this headline at "los

angeles times" >> the story is available on line at la times.com. >> is there anything that the white house would have done differently in terms of joining the hill or announcing the joint session? >> our intentions was to let the

president have the opportunity to speak at the soonest possible date. wednesday seemed to be the best option. when that wasn't available, thursday was fine with us we are looking forward to the opportunity. we are focussed on that. >> you would have gone through that process at the same time. >> all we care about is that we address the issues that are important. we are certainly interested inside the beltway and the gamemanship. >> the jobless rate across the country will stay about 9%. james is joining us. big spring texas, good morning. >> first time caller. i wanted to make a comment. as far as creating jobs goes.

this is the first year of office, what did he do? he signed more free trade agreements. did that create jobs? it would. i had a friend of mine owned a radiator shop in dallas. he employed about 250 people. they came and shut him down because he used led starters. those jobs went across the border to mexico. everybody talks about global economy instead of america. why don't we take care of america first. i know our currency is like a world currency why don't we take care of america first? host: sound $like you are

listening to c-span radio. caller: yes. host: what do you think of your governor rick perry? caller: considering what we have at the moment, maybe he can bring new ideas up there to washington. host: listening from the radio. a twitter post from robert. back to the piece on the front page this morning on the "new york times."

host: on the republican line from miami. caller: great talking to you. i've been watching since the first day. the ford principle. henry ford put all these people to work. he said listen, we have to pay these people enough to buy the product unfortunately since the 1980s, we've been doing supply all the productivity have gone

to the corporations. the unions have been rolled out we have to pay the people enough to buy what we have in the united states the globalization will be at 70% at best. we can call it resdrib use. we don't have to make it like that. what can we say? we have 4% of the world's population where are we going with that, folks? duh. >> host: thank you for the call in. the factories moving back a faultering dmroeb al economy bob

is joining us. good morning. caller: the last caller made a lot of sense. what gets me. all my life -- i'm 74 years old now. i feared communists. i didn't have to fight over there but i had relation that did now our jobs are going to colonists. president bush said it american wages would come down and the rest of the world would come up and meet in the middle. this country is so greedy. surplus is a horrible, filthy word now.

the only communist country we fight is out here in cuba i'd like to see the president make a speech and talk to the people. i voted for him. host: are you satisfied with what he's done? caller: nobody is satisfied with him. i'd like to see our country come back. i have little grandkids anyway. i won't say this for a long time let's bring it back and call this president what it is we are giving them trillions. thank you for your call outside the beltway. the somber outlook. the growth and jobless rate. from the miami harold, the new

poor. more people in south florida turning to a safety net. more on the storms present and past putting louisiana on the search. focusing on the weather. frustration is part of the headline. in new england, continuing it deal without power and water and the clean up continues farmers in virginia alone losing about $60 million danny is joining us from detroit. caller: we need a rock festive al why don't they have a festival let's start our goals

out we need sales tax across the board like mib 3% or 6% nationally. we node to follow the monday on the war that they've lost. we need to get that back and rock that on. support our troops and bring them home. thank you. coming up, here to take your phone calls as he analyzes good

morning caller: i'm wandering with the policies america has in place, it doesn't seem like an endless road. host: is that your comment? that's it? caller: i was expecting a comment from one of you all. it seems like an endless road. never ending. host: to tampa florida. good morning. caller: i have a little plan. that would be to have a stimulus that the government would set up like $350 billion give each

individual american a debt card that can only be used to buy american products. american favred products. that would make them start making things here so it could be sold here. put forth by the president to serve on the ninth circuit court of appeals this story today the california governor wearing him in. he withdrew from consideration after the option now taking his new position in sacramento. back to your phone calls on the

issue of ee condition my under way at 7:00 eastern time. no word on whether there will be a republican response greg is joining us from jacksonville, florida. caller: always nice to be on with you. some of the same questions that the public is hearing daily about the unemployment rate all of us out here in america how it is. how it has not moved out of this recession all of the learned people in the country continue to tell. i would hope the media would begin to address the legal,

ethical, moral responsibility of congress on both sides to solve these problems that they continue to play politics with and the kind of cooperation or additive you want to describe to the republican party or not working with the president or working with him what his visions would be for the country. all these callers call in. no one is live listening to us. no one in power who has the power to legislate, no one is listening to us. they are listening to the lobbyist who fund their campaigns and have fundraisers but no one is listening to the average american person working to try to solve the problem i

watched c-span when it debuted. caller: i love the program. even though i disagree sometimes with some of the topics, i still watch because it is the most objective news form you can get. the american public do have the opportunity to come in and give my opinion i hope c-span can begin to question the behavior of the people and not moving this country forward. always enjoy seeing you. host: thank you. one member getting a fair amount of attention the story on line.

cheering the appointment of senator toomey saying there's no way the former head would sell them out on taxes willing to make tax reform a part of the package. he told an audience of 250 people in the small town, he went on to say i would say of the a absurd tax codes and special interest carved out for them all in favor of reforming to get in those final features

pointing out whether he would be open to backing up any type of tax reform. john from florida on the phone line. caller: when are these politicians going to understand they are letting these officials here pay them $9.25 an hour more than americans make. these illegals come in here they sign up for medical and get all the schooling for their kids. they are destroying this country. i like for my grandkids to be able to get a job one of these days they cut the benefits off and they say they will self deport. on the freeway, i come through

north carolina on the stimulus plan for roads. i seen one american boss and the rest of them was mexico ans working on the freeways from north carolina to florida. i don't understand why these politicians don't understand that these 20 million jobs are giving work to these none america americans. host: on twitter, i want stimulus given like in iraqi desert by gops bremer-from back of 18 wheelers. >> supporting president obama outside the white house. i choose the word terrified

carefully. host: next on the line from florida. good morning kathleen. caller: good morning, how are you? something been on my chest for a while. i want to speak about it. everybody complaining about

illegals and foreigners in this country taking the jobs. the racist government, the one let these people over here and now you want to complain about it. you let them over here so the african-americans, which is the black people that you put enslaved. now you are talking to me to say let's share sacrifice. i feel like as an african-american, we have sacrificed enough in american. tell the truth. don't put the blame on african-americans. we never had equal opportunities in america. now it is blowing up in everybody's face. everybody knows how it feels now to be broke, hungry, depend on welfare. they say we don't want to work.

want to be on welfare. no. we want a decent life and a nice house. you need to stop it. i'm not talking about all white people. there are good white people. it's not just white people racist too. we have foreign police in my communities. they are so unethical. they shouldn't even be police officers. i feel like if they cannot control the law in the country from which they came, how can they conduct the american law to me. host: thank you for your call. a report high 55% of americans believe the labor unions will become stronger. a couple of emails we received

one saying the white house put out the real number. the real number is more like 19% unemployed. obama went get reelected because he let's the republicans do what they want to do and was put in as president only for four years to keep the seat warm for the next republican president. >> one thing i get tired of in this debate is the glass is 1/10th empty view host: despite a struggling economy or because of it, lottery ticket sales have surged across the u.s.a.

host: next larry joining us from massachusetts on the republican line. caller: thank you for taking my call. a caller made a comment earlier that everybody in america is again president obama. that's not the case. i am a black republican. i had to go back during the clinton era to retool, upgrade my skills. i have a company that is very successful. i'm hiring people. i'm in mental health. the whole country is not suffering. to say the whole economy is gloom and doom, that's not true. among my friends who are black, republican or democrat, we are not against president obama. we understand the hand he was

dealt. you can't say the man is the reason why things are the way they are. look at the hand he was dealt. as a black man and republican who has a business that is hiring people and americans, don't say that everybody is doing bad. that's not true. a lot of these jobs are not coming back. president obama said that. you have to retool yourself get reeducated or you are not going to do well. it's your job to create a job. that's your job. host: if you remember from your el metropolitanry school days. you may remember scholastic news. two reporters sat down with president obama. one of the two to sit down with

the president was jacob from new mexico. >> if you could sit down with a conference with one of these founding fathers which one would it be? >> that's a pretty good question. i've always thought that benjamin franklin would be an interesting guy to talk to. not only was he a great politician and somebody who helped organize our country but also a great scientist and a good businessman. they say he was a really funny guy. a good writer. he had a lot of different interests that would make him somebody that i would really enjoy having dinner with. host: other issues in the

interview including u.s. constitution, economy education. the students had a chance to meet b on the dog. jacob is on the phone life from new mexico. 12 years old. thank you for being with us on c-span. caller: good morning. host: how did you get selected? what was 9 process to do this interview? caller: i'm not sure exactly. i know i have a background of interviewing political leaders. that might be why. host: tell us about the experience. i was flown to washington, d.c. i got to take a white house tour. the white house was really incredible. host: the two of you sitting

down with the president, how did you co-lab rate determining who would ask what? >> we just traded off the questions. we worked with our editor to come up with those questions so they would under our readers. available on line. the cover story is called "we the people." were you nervous? >> not exactly. i was more excited than nervous. host: did the president answer all your questions? >> yes. he answered every one. he answered them really well and gave really creative answers. host: how much time did you spend with president obama? >> 20, 25 minutes as an estimation host: when you do an interview like that, there's always a

question you don't have time for. what would you have asked that you didn't? >> i would have liked to ask the president about how he trained his dogs. w4 b on the first dog came in. the president used the same commands as we did our dog. i want to learn more about that. >> we should point out that scholastic news is the longest running student reporting program. how did you get involved with this? caller: i was reading the story. i applied by writing what is special about the state of new mexico. host: do you want to be a

journalist when you get older? >> that would be fun to do i might even want to be the president of the united states but i want want to start out with owning a big corporation. host: jacob was one of two reporters to down with the president. scholastic news is accepting application through october 11 for kid reporters. visit to get more information. jacob joining us early from new mexico. thank you for sharing your experience with our c-span audience. >> thank you. host: become to your phone calls. the white house says unemployment likely to stay through next year.

caller: call me genius. give me about two minutes, which is what i estimate you give the young child, 12 years old. i'm 72 almost. i have a lot of experience in political. so call me political genius. ok? the only big problems in the whole world are taxes and money. there's so much disparity all over the world. that's why there is so much war and so much discontent and corporations want to have it all. we need to pass a law that corporations can have it all. we need to get back to at least taxes under clinton. that was successful. nobody on the republican side -- but it needs to be debated

thoroughly at length if we were to print money, you know the dollar is the big deal all over the world, print a lot of dollars all over the world especially in africa. there's like 7 billion people in the world. let's test there is 700 trillion of wedge in the world. if you were to exploit the potential of all these people, print money and give them dollars, you would stimulate a lot. host: thank you for the call. looking to wake people up in the scope of the problem. linda on the twitter page

saying, ok, how about a kid's section on c-span once a week. a show like news makers with jacob as method rater. not a bad idea. he would do a great job, i'm sure. caller: good morning. i wish we could secure our borders. we can bring our troops out of the middle east. we are not getting out of the middle east. those people have a mind set. you are not going to change that. the president promised us we have over 300,000 bridges in this country that fail at a rate of one a week. after the one in minnesota failed. the bridge was inspected almost three week brz it failed. we have roads that are in deplorable situations. i have stood in line and watched

illegals in this country cash their paychecks and send $800 or $1,000 back to mexico. it's great that they want to help their families but they need to do something about their country. if we don't take care of this country, it's going to fall within. we have to take care of us. we keep trying to be the world protector. it's going to fall. these special interest groups, they need to stop. host: we'll stop you there. we are short on time. another story we want to bring to your attention. those of you who keep track of

politics. featuring on news makers, pointing out that the rise. just minutes before members were expected to remove him. host: read more on line. a point from our twitter viewers. the last call is dorothy on the democrat's line from ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. i'd like to say a few things. in regards to the last caller. ok. in my state. ok, they have these big signs up

stating your tax money is at work. i feel for the president. i know he's doing the best he can under the circumstances. i do know that we do have a high deficit. the stimulus and job bill that he's going to produce, we cannot take down a debt while this many people is unemployed. you have to be able to make the party work. rushing to the poles, now they see what is going on. they are trying to high jack social security, get rid of this. host: thank you for the call. the last story we want to bring to your attention is from the "washington post." looking at the debate in europe that we are seeing in the u.s.

debtor double dip. pointing out that after a year of budget cutting. host: we'll have more on this debate as we prepare for the president's address. that speech lated for thursday evening. coming up next, fred barns on the book by foreigner vice president dick cheney.

later, we'll continue this coverage all week. the washington journal continues on friday, september 2. we are back in a moment. >> he's a partisan guy that wants to unite people. all of the problems of this era, you would get from this guy. >> he had the miss fortune of running against the great military hero dwightizen however. i don't think there's anyway he could have won. >> you think offal smith in 1 8

1928, he paved the way for franklin roosevelt. there are 14 people in this series. many of whom viewers have never heard of. all of whom i can guarantee they will find interesting to fascinating and certainly surprising. >> history professor eugene baker and presidential historian talk about the 14 men who ran for president an lost. it night, a preview for the contenders, a 14-week series beginning friday, september 9. >> there are many people in this town that would like to have themselves described as

makiaveli. >> his name together with sin cal scheming and the selfish pursuit of power. miles unger argues his leading may have been the spon to shows around him. >> this weekend a holiday weekend. from katrina's secret. the storms after the storm on afterwards. the inusual on racial politics on the first african-american president. live sunday. three hours in depth. look for the complete book tv schedule and sign up for a book tv a lerlt. weekend schedules in your in box. washington journal continues.

host: welcome fred barns, the executive editor of the weekly standard, a contributor to the fox news channel. cheap shot, condoleezza rice says the dick cheney book is an attack of her integrity. this is just one of the latest responses, which you've read. guest: one of the closing chapters in the book, he disagrees with her. she's secretary of state. he is vice president, on the policy of north korea. he thinks she was extremely l n lenient and wanted president bush to sign the agreement with the north koreans. cheney said it wasn't that at all but as a result of

conversations her assistant had had. obviously cheney disagreed heartily. it is strenously written. at the end of the day, president bush agreed with her. host: she says she never writed in front of him. >> crying was over the 16 words. the word that's said the british intelligence. there were great ramifications of that. she thought it was something that they had to basically apologize for back then in 2003 or 2004, whatever it was. cheney did. he claims later that she came him and said she was wrong.

parts of the book, he writes. in every administration, there is often an incli indication to make concessions to bad actors in the his administration and what's happening right now in the obama administration. guest: what i tend to agree with. overall the years, the deputy chief of staff in theford administration and was a member of congress and chief of staff in the ford administration. a member of congress. look, he was a favorite.

much tougher, more hawkish policy than the state department normally does under any president. >> dik cheney sat down with matt lauer on the today show. he asked if the americans were asked to use these torture techniques. >> i think we would object. we wouldn't expect an american to be acting that way. dealing with the alleged master mind of 9/11, killed 3,000 americans. at the time when we had very little knowledge of al qaeda and after we had gone through other procedures and efforts, at the end of that process, he was

subjected to the program. it was carefully super viced. none of the techniques used were things we haven't already used. the vast majority of people would say water boarding is torture. >> i would ask you don't get caught up in the methods of interrogation. the fact is it worked. we learned valuable information from that process and kept the country safe for seven years. >> he said if water boarding were being done, he would explain. yet, he defends it being done against the other high-valued detainees.

you can see it's a bit couldn't directory. that's one of the reasons his book is good. it's so candid all through it. you may not remember but there used to be people that would leave the administration. it would be sweetness and light and got along with everybody. now we are seeing books. when they are going into the disagreements they had and recounting them in very self serving or strong lang language. he points out that his interest was not in pomp and circumstance but power, nevertheless the unusually influence al role he took, he writes wasn't just

host: was it the arrangement that stayed the same for eight years? guest: it pretty much did. look 9/11 happened early. it was after 9/11 that cheney and the issues cheney was the most interested in which were foreign policy and national security issues. that's become more important. one of the things we find in the cheney book is the number of times cheney disagreed with the president and actually didn't get his way. he didn't in his dispute with condoleezza rice over north korea. he talks about complaining about

a leak from the white house about softening his position to iraq. he even explains to the president and taken aside and tell is him that leak kament from the president himself. there were a number of disagreements by cheney against the president. it did not seem to diminish from over the years. it didn't diminish cheney's influence. >> he talked about his health. one thing i learned, during the four years, he smoked three packs a day. guest: i don't remember him smoking that much but i guess he did. he really was a boy wonder taking over as white house chief

of staff in 1995. he was a very good white house chief of staff. you know what makes the people in washington the most effective, where they understand policy and they are pretty deeply involved in it but also understand politicpolitics. . .

host: you can join us by giving us a phone call, sending us a tweeet or an e-mail. carl joins us from west virginia. caller: i have a lot of respect for collen powell, but i have lost -- i lost respect when he

knew who leaked the name, and would not say so. every night you heard people like chris matthews accusing george bush, dick cheney, all of these people of committing a crime, and i do not understand why chris matthews could not have been sued for defamation of character. the prosecutor also new from the beginning who leaked the name to the media, yet he kept on with this charade -- i called it a charade investigation. i think he should be disbarred. that is all i have to say. thank you. host: fred barnes, your response? guest: of course, colin powell told everybody not to tell

anybody that it was his aide. i do not think cheney thickset is a good excuse. there have been other things written about that that have said that the state department did not want -- that he did not want that to get out because it would be embarrassing for the state department. my question is did he privately tell the president -- remember, the president was hot on the trail of scooter libby and karl rove about whether they leaked information. they did not do that. it was ultimately scooter libby, who was the only person convicted. host: was the president wrong in not pardoning him? guest: i think so. host: why? guest: because i think it is

questionable about whether they had lied, and memory could be tricky, and whether his recollection of a conversation with tim russert, host of "meet the press,"they differed, and that could happen. the older you get, you realize your memory can be very faulty, and you can be so short that something had happened. over that, should libby have been convicted? i do not think so. the president cleared him of going to jail, but would not give him a pardon. i think that created a rift between the president and cheney. cheney felt this was a political battle that was going on, and we

should not leave our will bid on the field. host: why did the president not pardon him? guest: i think the president that libby had lied, that he was guilty, and did not want to pardon him. host: one of our viewers -- what is your relationship with dick cheney? guest: i met him when he was first the deputy white house chief of staff under gerald ford in 1974. i knew him when he was a member of congress and secretary of defense, and certainly when he was vice president, and i would say he is someone that i know quite well. i generally agree with his views. he is a conservative. i am a conservative. friend? all you what he wrote in the book. he says for fred barnes, a man

with firsthand knowledge of many of the events in this book. it does not say fred barnes, one of my closest and dearest friends, because that would not be the case. host: july joins us from california. good morning. caller: i do agree with mr. barnes said dick cheney was in the driver's seat when it came to foreign policy. i am not one to sugarcoat things here. i think dick cheney is a war criminal, and a mass murderer. i am 52 years old. i have lived through some presidencies. i just very much dislike dick cheney. i think it costs a lot of havoc. host: we have heard that argument. guest: i did not think he was in

the driver's seat. there have been stories written, and i think they were ridiculous that dick cheney was really the guy running things. he was not. it did not work that way and cannot work that way. he was very influential. the president sought out his views on national security issues in particular. they met a lot. he had an extremely influential role, but in the driver's seat? i would say no. host: he says he, george w. bush, made some decisions i did not agree with . guest: it is certainly true that no vice president has had the access and influence that dick cheney did. host: clearly had a lot of influence in this white house?

guest: of course he did. 9/11 had a lot to do with that. that was cheney put a big issue. i think he was -- dick cheney's big issue. i think he was easily the most influential vice-president of all time, but running the white house, he was far from that. host: how could he be influential but not run part of the show? guest: because you are not the person that makes the decisions. one of the things that is in the book is how many times dick cheney -- the president talked cheney's advice, but did not follow it. host: one thing not in the book is any mistakes he made politically. guest: the book is a defense of his career as vice-president. he did say that he misjudged mikhail gorbachev. untended think of other things where he said he was wrong, but

they do not -- i intend to think of other things where he said he was wrong, but they're not coming to mind. he said early in the book when he worked for president gerald ford debt ford favored an accommodation with the. -- that sort favored an accommodation with the panamanians over the panama canal and cheney said he did not. phonebill, you're on the with fred barnes. his take on dick cheney's new book. if you i'm wondering have read norman schwarzkopf's books, "it does not take a hero?" guest: , i have not. caller: he is not very kind to dick cheney. he seems to say that he wanted colin powell to get him off his

back, that he was coming up with hairbrained ideas that we're going to get people killed. this was written at a time when he was no longer defense secretary. he was in private business. i just never heard anyone say anything about that. host: i think i understand the comment. dick cheney was tough on the generals during the iraq war, the second and first war, specifically when he saw something they said publicly that did not sound right. he would take action. he had disagreements early on with colin powell, even though they had been very good friends. so, i can understand why norman schwarzkopf really did not want to be leaned on by a defense secretary that had never served in the military himself during wartime. i am surprised by it.

it is another one of the disagreements with president george w. bush -- when the president decided not to renominate the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. dick cheney actually thought he should have been renominated. it would have been difficult to get it through a democratic senate, but this was another disagreement with george bush. host: there is only one sentence about the vietnam war, saying he would have served if his number came up, but he did have five deferments. >guest: he did not serve. he could have been listed, but he did not. you could imagine the locker room talk about that. host: this past sunday colin powell responded to the book from cbs "sunday morning."

>> what caught my attention was that he said it was going to cause heads to explode. it is one of the kind of headlines you might see a supermarket tabloid. i would not expect that from a former vice-president of the united states of america. mr. cheney has had a long, distinguished career, and i hope that is what he will focus on, if not cheap shots is taken at me, and other members that served to the best of our ability. host: yo >> you labeled them cheap shots? >> they are cheap shots. he takes a shot for my resentment. president bush and i also -- always agreed.

there is no news there. he says i went out of my way not to present my positions to the president, but to take them outside of the administration. that is nonsense. the president knows that i told him what i thought about every issue of the day. mr. cheney says i'm not -- knows that i sent to president bush, if you break it, you own it, we have to be prepared for the whole war, not just for a phase. mr. cheney and many of his colleagues did not prepare for what happened after the fall of baghdad. host: why the schism between cuba will men served together? there is some praise -- between two men that serve together? there is some praise for colin powell in the book. guest: that has some great disagreements, and they were over the most important issues that could come up -- war and peace. cheney has put this in his book.

as i mentioned earlier, with people who have retired from the state department, they did not put all of the stuff in the book. i think we benefit from hearing about it. i appreciate that he put all of the disagreements, or at least many of them in his book, some in great detail. he pointed out those that he disagreed with what he thought he was right, and that included the president, and especially colin powell. what do you want in a memoir from a guy that's had the experience that dick cheney has in washington? if you wanted him to sugarcoated, or say they all got along well, i do not want that. i think we benefit from the disagreements that argued from jamie's viewpoints. i'm glad he wrote the rich dick cheney's viewpoint.

i'm glad he wrote the book. -- dick cheney's viewpoint. i'm glad he wrote the book. host: george w. bush was interviewed, and said his book was fine, but points out that his book "decision points" and now this book, "in my time" will give historians a lot to think about. how? -- how do you think this will be judged? but guest: we still see what is happening in the middle east, and iraq stumbling toward a democratic country. we will see how that winds up. i will tell you. what helps our candid, -- are candid, frank memoirs written by dick cheney and others.

the president has written one book, and there might be others. i think cheney might encourage others to write books that could be revealing. host: which to you think is better? guest: they really are different. the president picks out some episodes that you writes about, and has done very well. it is more of a statement. i would say cheney is a little more slam bang. host: we will go to eric, in los angeles. good morning. caller: good morning. do you think in the points regarding libby, there was clearly an overall judgment where a talented diplomat had found information that was critical to national issue. he wrote it up.

instead of responding to what he wrote, a campaign went on to discredit him by spreading stories about his wife, and cheney was in the middle of this. why it is somebody who was trying to help, being undermined by a vicious attack? don't you feel indignation by the way that developed? guest: i did not feel indignation. i do not think there was a campaign. there were certainly disagreement with joe wilson. he claimed the president wide, but he also came back and told the cia that there had been a mission to niger 04 trade. the only thing they had interesting to iraq was

yellowcake cranium. i guess i disagree -- uranium. i guess i disagree that i should have indignation that dick cheney was behind some campaign against joe williams -- joe wilson and his wife. host: with the news about general motors and chrysler, both of home received funding, he talks about gm -- host: i bring that up because he also talks about the tarp program, where he helped banks on washington. he supported that, so why financial institutions and not the automobile industry? guest: if you did not support the financial institutions, it faced economic collapse. he did not support gm and

chrysler, you would have faced bankruptcy by those companies, and it would not have been a financial collapse, or even lead to the city toll of those companies. -- end of those companies. at the end of his administration, the president did use money to keep gm and chrysler going. i think the obama administration will tell you that if that had not been done by president bush, there might have been a different condition they face when they came in office, and bankruptcy might have happened. obviously, obama follow the same thing president bush did, and dick cheney disagrees. the mistakes were not the same in october of 2008, as they were at the end of the bush administration. one was threatening a severe financial collapse, and the

other the bankruptcy of a couple of important companies, but the stakes were not as high. host: the book is called "in my time" by former vice president dick cheney. we're talking with fred barnes who has covered dick cheney over the years, and you have said dick cheney was a true american hero who. more about this country that his proceed image. guest: he did not care about his image. by the end of his vice presidency, he had a fairly poor image, and this book will not help his image. i am glad he wrote it. i hope other officials, when they leave washington, can write a book equally -- books equally as candid. host: tony joins us. caller: the only blind eye --

the only lined i did not understand is what he said the white house is haunted right now, that there are four spooks living in it? host: i think that was a play on words. guest: but there was a lot of suspicion that dick cheney had engineered it so he would be picked as vice president. he says different in the book, but he obviously accepted the nod. look, and thus we find out exactly what was said between these two -- unless we find out exactly what was said by these two men, president bush, and dick cheney, and what it was dick cheney was giving him -- he was not try to take over the

vice presidency himself he says, and i did not note evidence to the contrary. host: one of our viewers -- scrubs, scrub, scrub. guest: i did not think is try to scrub anything. he did not have to agree with him. i think it is an honest account from his viewpoint of what happened not only in the eight years in the bush white house, but his entire life and career. host: from this "new york times" review of the book --

know that they didn't 9/11 was coming? that -- well, that is ridiculous. i would not call that a cheap shot, but i guess that follows the editorial line that that paper has taken. h. the next is stephen, -- host: next is stephen, chattanooga, tenn.. caller: i am confused why you would drag on a man that obviously lied on a -- about a war. how would you be dragging on him because he is open about lying? i do not understand how you can brag. all these people died in this war.

people are valuable. i'm talking about this fake war, the sly, and it is ok. -- this lie, and it is ok. host: frank follows up and says 10 years, we cannot say we have won any of chaney put the war. guest: will certainly move the long way in iraq. host: on the caller's point? guest: i enjoyed reading the book. i learned a lot. it is a defense from the viewpoint of dick cheney. i do not think it is a defense of lies. i'm not defending lies. i do not think there are lies in there. i think there are disagreements that are very deep in washington over bohol iraq war, less so, but still very -- a hole in iraq war, if less so, but still very deep. just because you disagree, does

not mean they're lying. host: with president obama outlining his job plan, dick cheney says the reason for the financial crisis are likely to be long-debated. host: from his book, a deal understand to what led to the economic factors a process close to another great recession? guest: i think so, even though he does not dwell on that in the book. you have the big banks in new york, you had fannie mae and freddie mac in washington that were willing to buy up all of these sub-prime loans, and still owned millions of them. when you put all of these factors together, there were a lot of the villains there. they were in new york, washington, the regulators --

look, if you want an explanation of why we had this tremendous economic and financial problem in 2008, the repercussions which we are still feeling, i would not go to dick cheney's book. there are a lot of books have come out on the subject that are very good, not just by conservatives and free market people, and defenders of those viewpoints, but from others. there is a lot to read there, but do not go to dick cheney's book for that. host: was there one thing that surprised you the most in reading this 527-page book? guest: knowing dick cheney over the years, i was surprised how many times he disagreed with his bosses. it was an awful lot. how many times the people -- the people who believed dick cheney was running the white house, need to find out how many times he did not prevail on issues.

host: fred barnes, editor of "weekly standard." we appreciate your time. bob woodward will be sitting down with the former vice president, dick cheney. you can check it out on c-span's booktv. we will continue our week-long series on whether. the head of the national weather service will join us later, but up next, a look at the mortality rate in the u.s.. we are living longer, but what does that mean for public policy issues, and what some of the latest factors could into the deaths of americans? all of that coming up on "washington journal" this friday morning.

>> he is a partisan guy that wants to unite people. i mean, all of the problems of the era, you could get from this guy, and why we could not be left him, is the same reason we actually went to war. they could not be -- election is the same reason we could not go to war. they had to be resolved. >> he had the misfortune of running against the great military hero, dwight eisenhower, so i do not really think adlai stevenson could have won. >> if you think of al smith in 1928, he lost overwhelmingly to who hoovered hoover, but pave

the way for franklin was about. there are many people in the -- franklin roosevelt. there are many people in this series that many have not heard of, but all of whom people will find fascinating, and certainly surprising. >> history professor gene baker, a real clear politics editor carl cannon, and richard norton smith talked about the 14 men that ran for president and lost tonight, added o'clock p.m. eastern and space the pacific. it is a creed -- 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific. it is a preview for "the contenders." >> machiavelli has become an active. i think there are very few people that would have themselves described as a machiavellian.

>> his name is synonymous with cynical scheming, and the selfish pursuit of power. sunday night, author miles unger argues that machiavelli's theories might have been a response to the corruption around him, at 8:00, on c-span's "q&a." >> it might not surprising that we think two -- good things come in two's. >> you can watch live events, eat c-span.org. >> or anytime you want at the c- span library. >> weekends, explore american history tv. >> listen to what's on your iphone. >> or your blackberry. >> follow loss on twitter. >> join us on facebook. >> it is washington coming your way on c-span. >> watch more video the

candidates, see what reporters are saying, and track contributions. it is easy to use, and helps you navigate the political landscape with twitter fees and facebook updates from the campaigns, can it biographies, and the latest polling data. it is ahead c-span.org/campaign 2012. >> "washington journal" continues. >> we are joined by dr. michael o'grady, and dr. edward sondik. good morning. 65% of americans live to the age 65 in 1965.

today, it is 84%. what does this tell you about the longevity of americans and the impact it has on our society? guest: the longevity has been going up since 1900. if you look at the string of data that we have, you can see that it continues to improve. i think this figure is particularly important, not only in the probability, the likelihood of living to age 65, but also the probability of living to age 85. it is probably dead figure that is the most surprising. somebody born in -- that figure that is most surprising. somebody born in 1940 had a one in 10 chance, and a baby born today has almost a 40% chance of living to 85. the good part of that is life. there are a lot of policy issues that come along with that.

we have a population whose demographics are changing rapidly. host: as we look to some other figures, this is the leading causes of death around the country. heart disease is on the decline. stroke is on the decline. chronic lung disease has increased. cancer has been pretty steady. guest: actually, cancer is going down, but when you look at the chart, it is going down slightly in this chart compared to heart disease, which is going down much more rapidly. as you can see, we project, using simple projections, cancer is going to become the leading cause of death in just a couple of years from now. the declines in heart disease, cancer, and stroke are very much due to the changes in smoking. smoking has declined tremendously in this country -- a real public health victory,

although clearly the victory is not completely one, but smoking rates are down from what they were around 1970. host: dr. michael o'grady, what do these numbers tell you? guest: there is what you see the data, and what the policy implications are. the good news is we are living longer. it is not bad news, but it is important news that we need to think about how we handle things like social security, medicare, and other programs to make sure there are enough funds to handle the longer life people have. he see a number of different trends are all generally good -- you see a number of different friends are all generally good -- trends that are all generally good. you also see things like obesity, which is a complication of diabetes. we have made this progress, but we need to be smart about, so

that people did not level off or go up again. host: there was a huge uptick in hiv death rates. what are the lessons in this case particular case? guest: let me start with detection. these statistics and to identify the there was an aids problem. it was not called aids then, but there were causes of death that were on usual, and very localized. that was kind of the first clue that there was something going on. if the death rate increased very steeply -- the death rate increased very steeply until we see the treatment change, and that is a 75% reduction -- really just a tremendous, in a sense, public health victory.

a victory for this very serious problem. this data helped us track treatment, the tension, treatment, and intervention. -- detection, treatment, and intervention. guest: they did not know what this was. was it environmental, was it poisoning? what this highlights for as is the way you think of the multiple components that go on here. great work done at the national institutes of health, and great work getting that out to the public, and changes in the individual behavior as well. where you often see is a multi- component improvements -- good science, good treatment options, good drugs, and also the individuals themselves making the changes necessary. host: we will go through four

different stages of life and the to the leading causes of death. it comes as no surprise that for ages 1-24, accidents lead the list. homicide and suicide, in a close second or third. as you get older, a decline in car accidents, cancer increases, suicide is significant, as its heart disease. as you get older, heart disease and cancer begins to grow, and stays that way 65 and over. guest: what you see early on is the major causes of death are external. if they're not disease. there accidents, homicides, suicides at up to age 24, or thereabouts. in the next quarter, the major diseases, and, but it is really to 65 four fivet -- 45

range that the disease is coming in. i think people expected in the older ages, but not so much in these ages. i think it is surprising to many people that cancer is s large a cause of death as it is prior reaches as large a cause of death as it is prior -- as large a cause of death as it is prior to age 85. host: cancer can be detected in your lead-40.0 and early '60 -- late-40's and early-60's. guest: a generation ago, they would have been dead and 65 from a heart attack. some of the alzheimer's you see is because we have a higher percentage of our population in their 80's that we had before. it does not mean that there are

not these very serious responses that are necessary -- good science, good practice, and the individuals taking the steps they need to take. guest: over time, the population has changed. 100 years ago, when the leading causes of death was senility. we do not see that today. in part, it is not ascribe to as many deaths, but there are many other problems that have come in -- house members, dementia, and -- alzheimer's, dementia, and other problems that give us much more detail on the causes of death. it is interesting, these are the leading causes of death, but there are literally thousands of causes of death, and most of them account for tiny percentages of death. these are the big ones. so, we're talking about, as it shows on the graph, 25% for

heart, 25% for cancer, when we get into the upper ages. host: we are focusing today on the u.s. mortality rate -- what are some of the leading causes of death at various ages. we are dividing our phone lines regionally. 202 is the area code . host: dr. o'grady, how does the u.s. stepped up to western europe? guest: there are some things there different. what you see, is one, which i will point out in the beginning, is we do a much better job of collecting the data, i would argue. there is no partisan, one way or the other. it is a very rigorous process that ed and his staff go through to make sure policymakers can

trust this death. as we move into other countries, you see things like the way infant mortality is measured, and you are saying is that with the average person thinks of when they think of infant mortality? there are a number of things. there certainly are broad differences among the american population. we have a much more diverse population. europe is becoming more diverse. there are clearly heads up to policy-makers and individuals for what we need to do. things like differential mortality rates by race. clear warnings set there are things that need to be done, it changes the need to be made. we do not tend to see that from european data as much. as they have larger and larger immigrant populations, you might see those rate differences there, too. host: we know the basics -- exercise, do not smoke, did not

drink, avoid fatty foods, are there things other countries are doing? nearly half of this country is facing obesity, and in certain parts it is even higher. guest: from what i have seen, europe seems to be taking our lead and focusing on the factors we are focusing on. in terms of obesity, that is rising in europe. there might be a delay there. i think these problems are really universal in developed countries. perhaps they are associated with being developed. i know my colleagues at the center for disease control talk about the build environment, and the role of the built environment, and having people walk less, take a car, and so forth. there was an article the other day about people in cities who seem to walk more.

we need to think about these kind of factors -- these kinds of factors that influence the various factors you talk about -- how we live. we need to continue to work to identify risk factors like blood pressure, cholesterol, obesity, exercise -- all of these things are factors. there may be other factors that we just have not put our fingers on that make a difference here. i think the critical area for me is the area of 45 to 64, and how do we intervene? how do we help people to change with their prospects are in terms of developing disease, and in terms of treating it, and living with it?

the hiv situation is a good example. the disease is not cured by any means, but the death rate is cut by three-quarters, and people can live with that. host: we're talking about the u.s. mortality rate with dr. edward sondik, and dr. michael o'grady who is with the university of chicago national opinion research center . gary joins us from roanoke, virginia. welcome to the conversation. caller: good morning. i appreciate what you are talking about. my mother suffers. a concern that i have is the young teenage violence that i notice everyday, regardless of what location you go ahe. it seems like some house some type of money could be focused on this because that is -- somehow, some type of money could be focused on this because

that is our future. i am astounded by what i see on teenagers being killed, kidnapped, shot, and so forth. i think the world is not balanced the that well. that is something to look at, so some of these people could live a longer life, and give more back to our society, and 12 government in a tax pain bracket. iraq -- give back to our government in a tax paying bracket. i appreciate what you do. host: i want to go back to michael o'grady. if you look at this figure, and i will summarize, but almost two-thirds of accidents from ages 1 through 24 result from homicide, and accidents, or suicide. guest: i think that points to

why you need a more global approach. shop is a great operation, but there are things that really have to do with more things like law enforcement and gang the violence. there are things like traffic laws, but we still have problems with accidents and losing a lot of these young people that way. -- and losing young people that way. it is important to go beyond the silos that people think about. if you want to bring down the use death rates, it is not like the emergency room they get taken to needs another infusion of money. i'm sure they would take it, but it has more to do with things like policing, traffic, gang violence -- those issues, not directly our medical system. host: our next call is tunisia

from philadelphia. good morning. -- anita from philadelphia. good morning. caller: the morning. i watched the chart. you think there is a correlation between the alternative medicine that people are using to help treat diseases that other conventional medicines are not taking care of? that might be one variable. i know there is an increase in the use of alternative medicine. maybe that is why the disease rate is going down. one more thing, as far as health is concerned, our main problem is the lack of exercise from two things -- the remote control, and the mouth. if people get up and turned the channel -- i think people sit down and watch channel -- television. they sit in front of the

computer, and they use the mouth. sometimes you have to get up from the computer, and take a walk. i am a computer technician, so i am not anti-computer, but that is the problem with this obesity thing. we have to exercise come heat better, and sometimes use alternative medicine. thank you for taking my call. this is a very interesting show. host: dr. sondik? guest: she is right about exercise. on alternative message -- madison, we work -- on madison -- alternative medicine, we were doing a survey. it is hard to identify the root causes, but the kind of research that nih does is crucial at getting at those causes. i think the point she is making is under research.

host: we learned yesterday that among the worst places to drive washington, d.c., and baltimore, maryland. among the safest are in iowa and all -- i hope. fire deaths are staying the same, and poisoning is seen an increase. guest: poisoning should be noted that much of what we are talking about is the way we label these things. so, what you see there is no influence of the misuse of drugs. it is labeled by the epidemiologists who track these things as poisoning, but it is part more -- probably more reflective of what we think of as drug abuse. it is not heroin, or marijuana, but there are things that when you think about them, physicians

would see them as poison. to readthose spikes that have nagged our society for a long time. host: our apologies for our radio audience, because we are showing some charts, but let's look at suicide and homicide rates divided between whites and blacks. on average, 12 to 13 deaths among white americans as a result of suicide, and five of 100,000 for black americans. a big increase among african- americans or blacks reaching almost 20 deaths per 100,000 as a result of homicide. guest: socio-economic status has something to do with this on the homicide side, and also suicide

as well. understanding the science behind that is difficult and there is research under way, but the difference here is really start. host: dr. o'grady? guest: agreed that when you see these hard problems like this, -- i agree that when you see these are problems, you'll need to look at multiple causes. is there anything about being black that would cause this? i think it is hard -- i would be surprised. i think it has to do with living in poor neighborhoods. this is a reflection of that. what you really want to do -- the next step, is really to try to tease out what percentage has to do with a person's race or ethnicity, white neighborhoods they live in, their income, -- what neighborhoods they live in, their income -- we need to know all of the factors.

you would hate to have an intervention that somehow misinterprets what the real causes. it's called the unemployment rate among african-american teenagers -- host: the unemployment rate among african- american teenagers is upwards of 50%. guest: right. you can see that contributes to the sort of internal strife that we see in some of these neighborhoods. to my earlier point, is that necessarily a function of the health system? that might be more a function of the education system and the local economy. host: jason joins us, albuquerque, new mexico, good morning, with dr. edward sondik and dr. michael o'grady. caller: good morning, doctors. i work mostly in emergency rooms. i wanted to ask you a question about the role of the epa and

fda, and regulatory committees that prescribe remedies and those sorts of things. there are situations where people are not abiding by laws. also, i am a democrat. i have been a democrat since i was born. i propose that government is a vital source toward people living longer and healthier. i did not want to get political because i did not believe you guys are political, but i notice you said something about marijuana deaths, but how many have there been? i know what i'm getting off track. host: we will talk more about drug abuse -- we were talking more about drug abuse, but we can get a response, dr. sondik? guest: let me pick up on the role of government.

this is a non-partisan, but the role of what we do is information. it is crucial that the elements of government, the elements of the private sector picked up on that information, it picked up on that information, and use it. -- pick up on that information and use it. the last slide you showed on race, this is crucial because we are not looking at the overall suicide rate. we are going below that, and cutting it on the basis of race, which gives us clues, which should be able to give us clues as to understanding the causes behind us. so, the role of this information is really crucial in society, and it is also a really crucial that the battle be as untinged by political issues as it can be.

host: for every 1000 live births in this country, 8 to 10 children die. as you get these charts, you can see that in iceland, sweden, finland, and japan, it is much lower. where these countries during the u.s. is not doing? guest: that is a great question. i'm not sure whether might can answer that question. he is very difficult. a lot of work is going on to change -- i'm not sure whether my can answer that question. it is very difficult. let me tell you that the work has been significant. infant mortality continues to go down, so we are making improvements. there is no question that we are not at the top of that chart that you are looking at. there are some issues in data

collection, but i think these issues are really very minor compared with some real differences. differences might be in terms of .renatal care differences might be in terms of access to physicians. differences might be in nutrition on the part of the mother, the use of smoking, alcohol -- that sort of thing on the part of the mother. it is difficult to get the issues. the one. that is not shown on the chart is that if we look at the different -- the one thing that is not shown on the chart is that if we look to the differences in the u.s. by race and ethnicity, they are star, and while it is disturbing to see what ranked we are, what is even more disturbing is the in fort -- infant mortality rate of the black population is twice that of the black population, -- of the white population, there has to be a national priority

to change that. host: is it possible these messages are not getting to the population? guest: i think it is more about the prenatal care, and things like that. when you think of the tools we can bring to bear, we can see the technology and tools physicians have has greatly improved. we certainly have differences that are stark and troubling. at some point, you have to figure out what kind of been for mention -- intervention needs to go on, such as more of an outreach program to pregnant mothers that is more likely to help them come along. or, is this something that is more societal in terms of delaying childbearing for a number of years until a woman is in a better position to get that

kind of care? you want to bring down your number of 15-year-old mother. -- 15 year olds that are having babies we probably lead the worl -- babies. if we probably the world in technology, but we like other countries. it is clear other tolls me to be brought to the front. there is technology to help new parents. are we doing on/off preventative? -- are we doing enough preventative? guest: based on what the chart says, i would say we are not doing enough. what we should do, and how to do it is an open question.

i had a friend that said to me parents need a how-to a manual before they become parents. it is probably true. especially in today's society, where people do not necessarily live where their parents live, and they do not have the direct involvement, and they do not have the benefit of their parents looking after them, and over them, when they're having children. this might be an issue. so, prevention would be terrific, if we really knew how to do it. it has to be a priority. host: dr. edward sondik is a director of the national health senator for statistics, and dr. michael o'grady is now at the university of chicago's national opinion research center, and also serves on the board of the senator for disease control. ernest joins us from san