allied to al qaeda and at all times our security services and intelligence services are trying to work for the good of the country to keep us safe. i think it's important to remember the circumstances at the time. i don't think anybody should rush to judgment. but it's his view, my view, the view of the entire house that britain should never be complicit in torture or extraordinary rendition and it's important we make sure that that's the case. >> >> i wonder if you would agree with me there is one lesson which can be held or learned at this stage and that is particularly when dealing with regimes in the shadowy world of inintelligence. it is necessary to maintain distance so as to avoid accusations of impropriety or illegality. >> i think my rival friend

isening tirle right and as i put in my statement, the accusation that after libya came in from the cold and gave up the weapons of mass destruction, the relationship. clear out these cases through our courts and bring security cases down and have an inquirey so we get to the bottom of what happened and if there was any malpractice, we deal witness. it is very important that we clear this issue up once and for all. and it's we do that. >> i commend the prime minister for the role he has done this year. when it comes to the issue of

syria, and we are scan dalized of what we see. he is visiting moscow next week and i hope you make it clear to the russian government that both sides of the government, the president and the prime minister that thus far their protection of the syrian government has been wholly and who are -- abhorrent human rights abuses that are taking place. >> and it is appalling, the loss of life, the damage and terror that the president is inflicting on his own people. on the issue of russia, one of the things that has been encouraging is the russians came to the paris conference and one of the 63 countries represent thrd and supported the statement about nature oove -- nato continuing its work. what about syria?

i think the whole international community can learn about some success in libya and apply that elsewhere in terms of the unity and put the pressure on syria. >> someone who had reservations about the principle of intervention, can i congratulate you about the successful outcome in libya. it was legal and secondly has the support of the libian people. to the last question, can you now use it as an illustration to persuade permanent members of the security council, russia and china that a well-conducted intervention can be used to restrain auto crats? >> i'm grateful to my honorable friend. and everyone should have misgivings about these sorts of operations and don't have a belief that everything is going to go to plan. that rarely happens. we should always be hard-headed

and careful about these things. we should respect the fact that this is not done yet or completed yet and we should be very carbous about trying to draw up a new doctrine. the case comes up that flies completely in its face. but i do hope that other members of the security council will see there has been a success in removing a dictator and giving that country a chance of peaceful and democratic process which will be good for the world. >> will the inquirey conducted by peter gibson be held in public? will he have access to all the documents that have been discovered in libya which have been taken under control of the transitional national council and will it look at the question of british military involvement in libya up until march of this year and what lessons can we learn from that? >> on the issue of sir peter

gibson's inquirey, some will be held in public and some will be held in private. in terms of the documentation, he will have access to the paperwork he wants to see. clearly what has come out of libya is relevant to him and has made an announcement and looking forward to seeing that. in terms with britain's relationship with libya, it is understandable that the last government's wish to have a new relationship with libya after getting rid of weapons of mass destruction. in some instances it was too credit you louis. and we need to think carefully about our security and military involvement and sales to all regimes which why we reviewed our practices and keep them under review. >> how concerned is the prime minister about reports of islammist influence in the new

libian government? >> we should treat all these reports with concern and who we are dealing with. what i say is this. one of the long-term answers to islamic extremism is actually successful development of democracy in the arab world. part one is getting rid of bin laden, part two is greater democracy across the middle east and part three is the solution to the arab-israeli conflict and supporting these dictators helps us deal with islamic extremism is profoundly wrong. we find many that we are fighting or dealing with in pakistan or even in afghanistan come out of countries like libya or syria and we should ask why. >> libians fled their country during the last few months. what has been in place for them

to return? >> the italians are keen that they should return and there is every reason that they can return. i have been impressed by the members who have been in and out of libya while the conflict was going on. pressure can be great particularly on countries like malta and we use our embassies to help them with this issue. >> does the prime minister see any role for the intelligence and security committee investing the allege which if true, would be both shameful and shocking that britain had a part in handing suspects over to the gaddafi regime even in the context of 2003? >> it's absolutely a matter for the intelligence and security committee what they examine but

my friend will want to look at these allegations. i don't think any of us should rush to judgment. we have to remember the situation that this country was in post-9/11 where there was a real concern about people who wanted to damage our country. the libian international fighting group was allied with al qaeda and not anymore and separated itself from that organization and let the inquiries take their course but let's not rush to judgment. >> may i join in the tributes to the courage of our servicemen and women and your political leadership during this time. you talked about the issue of legacy and fletcher and must deal with the series of problems of the past. amongst those will be compensation and justice for the many hundreds of victims of libian-sponsored i.r.a. trim.

can i seek an assurance you continue to back the case for justice and will secure compensation from the new regime? >> i will do that. there is no doubt that the libian provision to the i.r.a. was mentally damaging and over many years and possibly even still today. i think we need to be very clear that this is going to be an important bilateral issue and the new libian authorities. we have to let it get its feet under the desk. >> mr. peter lilly. >> after the liberation of kuwait in which britain played a significant part, the financial contributions were fully reimbursed by kuwait itself. does my right honorable friend intend to seek a contribution from the libian authorities once oil begins to flow? >> that is not a consideration we have gone into so far.

obviously, this is funded outside the defense budget through the reserves and won't impact other defense spending. but the honorable gentleman makes an important point that we can bear in mind. >> the prime minister quite rightfully made the point that there will be no declassification process taking place in libya. the institutions across libya are both corrupt and very weak and the courts central to a functioning modern democratic society. will britain, perhaps the european union will make sure we support the development of those civil structures? >> we will certainly make available our advice. it is wanted on all sorts of

issues. they talked about the importance of police training and trying to make sure that their police were properly independent. encouraging to hear them say that and having a strong independent justice system is part of any free and democratic society. >> i welcome the progress of the libian people and the ar what can we help in the conference and the wishes of libyian civil society such as women for libya.

>> i repeat again. this is not the same as iraq where basically an intervention knocked over a government and we had to try and put back in place what had gone. what we are doing is trying to work with the people of libya who are putting in place these things themselves. a much stronger society will emerge if women are put in the role. >> i join with others in commending the prime minister's role. there are 8,000 students studying in the united kingdom, 2,000 of whom are state-sponsored, the funds are held by the british-arab bank and can't release these funds. can you make sure that these matters are resolved so students

can complete their studies and return to rebuild their country? >> i thank the right honorable gentleman. my understanding is that the money is being released and if there are any problems, we will help to secure there. there will be a wealther of these problems of dealing with unfrozen assets. and we have to work through each of these problems. >> may i commend my right honorable friend for acting in a way that vindicates his policy of britain acting as an effective global power and can i also commend him for not rushing to a new doctrine or going back to an old one. but does it not demonstrate the importance of maintaining armed forces with global reach so we can influence global events and protect our interests? >> our grateful for my honorable

friend's comments. if you overdue your belief in a particular doctrine, you will dealing a new doctrine. yes, you're right i'm a practical liberal consecutive and that's what i believe. in terms of -- it's a way of thinking. in terms of what he says about armed forces being able to project. i agree with him and you don't maintain that reach in power but sticking with mass battle tanks in europe and modernize your armed forces and have the reach for the challenges of the future. far from disproving the strategic defense review, libya proved the case for the sort of changes we are making. >> we aren't sorry to see the

end of gaddafi's criminal regime. isn't it a fact that up to this year, britain was actually sending the gaddafi regime, crowd control equipment and now we learn there was a closer collaboration between some western countries, not only britain and the gaddafi regime where terror suspects were sent to gaddafi's torture chamber? >> the point i make is this. i think it was right to have a new relationship with libya when we could persuade them to get rid of their weapons of mass destruction and discontinue their nuclear program and try to take a different path. i have my criticisms and the last government was gullible in

going too far in that direction and specifically when we had the o'donnell report and did find the last government was trying to facilitate his release. i don't criticize in wanting a new relationship. what changed was the treatment guy gaddafi of his own people and that was the moment for the world to act and i'm proud of the fact that the world did. >> the most impressive aspects of this intervention in what they see as a libyian event. >> you spent two days last week in tripoli and seen for himself that the libyans are managing

this transition quite effectively. but what he says about trying to make sure that we understand our role in this as backing a libyan plan rather than substituting our judgment for theirs is the right way ahead. >> the prime minister reviews his papers to ascertain whether the former prime minister personally authorized the corporation with the libyan intelligence services that led to the dngses? 2003 and will he revise the gibson review so the nine human rights agents who feel they can't cooperate with it and will he review it so it will be open and transparent and get to the bottom of these questions? >> let me put the honorable lady on one thing, there is a rule that you can't just see the papers provided to a previous government. that's why there is an inquiry

and being carried out by an independent judge and should allow peter gibson to get to the bottom of what happened in this case and the decisions that ministers made and ministers at the time will have to answer to them. that is the right approach. >> many of our constituents have said something along the lines another iraq over the last few months and the post-conflict stage. could the prime minister give more detail on the immediate post-conflicts are being brought forward in this situation? >> you are right. people have said we don't want another iraq and we don't want another bosnia and the present vngs of a massacre was important. on the issue in the difference between libya and iraq, i would

say this, because the libyan operation hasn't involved an occupying force, the libyan people feel it is something they have done themselves yes, with nato assistance, but just as they own the end of gaddafi and owning the transition to democracy and all the problems to disorder and crime that will be in the interim. but from what i can see they are dealing with these problems well and we should be helping rather than telling them what to do. >> point raised by my honorable friend about migration. one of the issues that became clear is many of the people that have ended up in malta, originated not from libya but from other countries sponsored by an illegal criminal network which no doubt gaddafi had some role in.

that means that some of those places have huge numbers of difficult cases to manage. how is he going to manage that? and can he assure the house that we i will have dial owing to make sure that those criminal routes are closed down. >> i will do that. first of all, it is important to get this in perspective. countries in northern europe, we get more asylum claims than the countries in southern europe. the second poivent i would make, we have we have thr relationship with malta and can't afford to have embassies all over the world. we use these embassies to help them return people to their countries of origin because many people coming through libya are not from libya. >> the new constitution of libya to be legitimate and to be sustainable, that freedom of speech and freedom of religion are very much included in the

new constitution and the orthodox, roman catholic church, serbian orthodox, greek orthodox church. >> we see this in egypt, the importance of protecting christians and others. and i'm hartened by what has been said with respect to the human rights and tolerance and i'm sure we'll follow this through. >> [inaudible] >> it's in libya's interest that the production of oil gets back to normal as fast as possible. some people say it could take up to three years. i think the encouraging thing is a lot of the refineries and

other oil installations have not been badly damaged and there is no reason why it shouldn't happen as rapidly as possible. >> i would like to congratulate the prime minister in the support he has shown the libyan people. can he tell the house what role is -- huge numbers driving around delling them what to do. arab assistance can play.

what are you having with key african leaders to ensure future u.n. resolution. >> i was very encouraged at the paris meeting there were leaders strongly supportive of the n.t.c. and democratic transitions in libya and the african union hasn't always been as clear as i would like it to be about the importance of democracy and freedom and human rights and progress in libya. i hope now that all the countries of the african union will get behind the new libyan authorities and get the support and help they need. >> i think the whole house will be celebrating the end of the monstrous gaddafi regime.

will the prime minister assure the house he will put pressure on the new government of libya to make sure the killers are brought to justice? >> i feel this is an extremely important issue in the bilateral issue between britain and libya at the paris conference. i spoke to the prime minister and said how important it is to people in our country and appalling act and reminder of what the regime. put it alongside the appalling act of blowing up an airliner over the skies of scottland. this regime was capable of appalling things and we need to find justice for these people and pursue it. >> i welcome the prime minister's statement in the end. but given we are in the aftermath in many respects, it is a civil war, how comfortable are you with the 20-month time

frame with the delivery of a new constitution and what measures will be put in place to protect human rights and political rights including freedom of movement and international observers? >> i believe the timetable is realistic and i think the key issue is whether we have faith in the national transitional council. i find throughout my dealings with the two gentlemen that they wanted to be national representing the whole country and bringing a country together and want it to be transitional. and this is a move. and they see the future of libya, not in a tribal fashion, but a democracy. that will have islamic elements and this is a muslim country. and that's the path they want to take and path we encourage them down. >> strongly welcome the prime minister's statement especially to the gibson inquiry.

but can i ask if it can include consideration of the role of the older regime's intelligence chief? >> well, the issue around him is he is helping the police with inquire eyes into the fletcher case and they are going to have conversations with him and that will go ahead. as far as peter gibson is concerned he can go where the evidence leads and call for papers he wants to see. and the key thing he is looking at are the accusations of come policity. that is what he is looking at. >> can we join the prime minister in paying tribute to our men and women and does the prime minister believe that the inquiry is enough to get to the bottom of this? will he be able to interview

former ministers and ask what they knew about the operations and judgments and activities and actions? >> what peter bib son will be able to do is call for papers and people and question people about the decisions that they took and he is looking into accusations of come policity, of mistreatment, of rendition, torture and all of those things and it will be for minimums sters whether in the last government or not, and if they have questions to answer, they will answer those questions. >> what does the prime minister believe to be the lesson from our intervention when it comes to any possible intervention given the arab league contains countries like syria and we refuse to help citizens of yemen and bahrain? >> i don't subscribe to the idea

that because you can't fix every problem in the world you shouldn't fix any problem in the world. here was a problem that we had a moral obligation to try and deal with because we could prevent a massacre. but there was -- we were able to do this because we had the support of arab nations and nato and convinced the security council to do this. i think it's a pretty good case for action. >> the prime minister has spoken of hope across the wider region following events in libya. will the premium that he and other international leaders have put on inclusion and consensus and building constitutions and democratic elections, may be reflected in their response to their response in palestinian

authority given this is the target in which statehood was to be recognized at the u.n.? >> i see that are all these issues are linked just as we want to see debater democracy, peace and progress in the middle eastern countries across the board and want to see the palestinians have the dignity of their own state. but we believe in the two-state solution. so there must be a palestine along a secure israel. and i think the test for us when it comes to this issue of recognition is are we doing something that is going to help push forward the peace process? that is the most important thing and in the end, wre can't compel israel and palestine to reach peace between themselves. they have to want to do it. >> as the prime minister knows i called for several years for an irquirey into rendition.

>> will you look again to ensure that mr. gibson can do a proper job? >> i will look carefully because he has been pursuing this wg dogged determination. what i would say in relation to this, this is an inquirey almost entirely concerned with the intelligence and security services and extremely difficult area to inquire into. i don't want to do anything that puts our country at risk or anything that jeopardizes our

intelligence or security services. there was the clearing of the guantanamo bay cases by the security services. there was a new guidance so officers knew what they should or should not do and try to clear up the problems in the past. it's about uncovering any mistreatment or malpractice and that is not to be justified in any way but allow our security services in keeping us safe. >> if libya is take over responsibility for its own security so our services can now return to base and other duties, will you ensure that financially the training we can provide in building a new libyan army, air force and navy is competitive with other countries so we can provide the tange and hopefully

a new form of relationship between the armed forces? >> we will make our services available. they have to choose what they want to do rather than force things on to them. we shouldn't have the attitude because we helped to liberate libya that we should get a preferred status but do it on the basis of what we have to offer and do it on the basis of all the normal rules and regulations we bring to this. >> can i commend the prime minister's resolve. it is right to stress it is up to the libyan people to determine the future. removing gaddafi releases tribal and we aren't out of the woods. stability in the next few months is critical if we are to see a role reversal where the rebels become the state and pro-gaddafi

forces become the insurgents. >> there are risks as we move from a situation from gaddafi in control to gaddafi on the run and we shouldn't be overconfident about what will follow. those who warned that this was a country so divided between benghazi and try poley, those have not been proven to be the case. this wasn't about al qaeda but people yearning for a voice and a job and it's our duty to help them bring this new country. >> mr. speaker, our our prime minister that some of the rebels have an al qaeda past. we want good relations with the new libya. is it important that this house

has as much information as possible about those who are assuming positions of power so we know who we are dealing with? >> that information is valuable and we shouldn't be naive in thinking that we are dealing with one type of people. and i think this idea of trying to encourage people who have a strong belief in the muslim faith into ar democratic role rather than a violent role is the right approach and people people -- there are concerns about where this can lead, but when you look at a country like turkey where you have a government that does have some ped agree out of muslim politics, that can be compatible with a successful democracy. >> thank you, mr. speaker. on syria, with regards to the

assad regime which the international community has come to the conclusion has become a legitimate regime, we are seeing countries like saudi arabia, kuwait and jordan, how far away are we from reaching that conclusion? >> we should act in a way that maximizes our influence. i think what has happened amongst arab countries that assad is legitimate and cannot take his country forward is important. >> although libya is the second richest african nation in terms of g.d.p. per capita, it suffers from an unemployment rate of 30%. can the international community help the new libyan government develop a more knowledge-based economy and share with the e.u.

and other major trading partners? >> we are trying to change and have successfully changed the entire neighborhood policy to make it more about market access and trade if they traded with as much with each other and the european union as european countries do that have far higher g.d.p.'s and much more balanced economy. the exciting thing about libya because of its oil wealth and relative size it can be an economic success story. too many countries, it has been a curse rather than a blessing. but libya has the opportunity and use the oil revenues to good use. >> the prime minister has indicated the british government is planning to play a role in the new military forces in the new libyan government. the resources be greater or less than those by the previous

labour government? >> ingenius question, mr. speaker. we should wait to see what the libyans want us to do. we have strong capabilities in training armed forces, police forces, advising on independent judiciary and the like and make those available and see what it is those libyans want. on this issue of training the police forces of other countries, it is a difficult issue, because if you get into it, on the wund hand, you are accused of helping a regime that isn't perfect in every sense. but if you don't do it, you don't have the opportunity to explain some of the finer points of indianapolising and respect for human rights. it is a very difficult issue that we haven't got right. >> the prime minister rightly emphasized that president assad has lost all legitimacy and the violence must end.

at the same time, he recognizes there is not a agree to get it right with those intents. can you tell us what he and his government are doing to try and build international agreement to the level where it does become possible to force president assad to pay attention to what he described as the moral imperative of the stopping of the slaughter of citizens? >> it is a series of permanent conversations that the foreign secretary is having. at the european level there is a high degree of unity and the e.u. has led the way particularly with the oil embargo and we are having strong discussions with the permanent members of the security council and russia, which i will be visiting soon and the nonpermanent members like south africa and others, but also we

build international support. there is no support for a a lot of hard work and diplomacy to build the strongest possible coalition. >> my honorable friend's actions in saving many lives in libya have been vindicated. in order for the council isn't overwhelmed. who will take the lead in reconstruction in libya and what role will this country play? >> i'm very freightful to my honorable friend to what he says. the key here has been building up and the secretary has been successful, building up a plan for transition. it's their plan and have assisted and helped to coordinate but it is their plan and other people can get into it. very interesting listening to the things they want. the biggest single demand they made in paris was the need for

temporary classrooms because schools were used by gaddafi's forces and temporary housing. it is a libyan-led plan. >> i understand that it is early days for the new libya, but can the prime minister say a little bit more about the discussions around unfreezing assets. there is a need an urgency to distribute these assets. there is also some concerns about whether they will go to the correct places. and whether or not the concerns expressed about this room will come to peruishon. can the prime minister say a little bit more about the discussions so far? >> a moment, what we're doing is taking through parts of unfreezing assets through the u.n. security council so we were unable to unfreeze the dinars

and distribute them back to the libyan people. in terms of making sure they are properly received, there should be a proper accounting and transparency in libya. in terms of having a more general asset relief, we need a new u.n. resolution and pushing for that. but we don't want to lose what we have at the moment, a u.n. resolution. it's a balance to get both those things so the assets can be unfrozen more broadly. >> the last government consistently told us that the whole reason for working closely with libya was because of the agreement reached in 2003. with the collapse of the gaddafi regime, hardly kept any part of that agreement. he held weapons of mass destruction and ignored human rights and don't you think it is rather odd that the previous government knew that all along and continued to increase

cooperation with the libyans? >> i think my friend makes an important point and we hope now with a new government in libya, we will be able to see how much of the agreement of the weapons of mass destruction was kept and it is concerning that there are still large supplies, mustard gas, that has to be a kept close on eye on by the international community. when the new government gets its feet under the table, perhaps you will find out more. >> contracting services are in the process of completing a contract with the libyan oil industry. now the failure of that would cause significant financial problems for them. it took me two months for the department of business to cam back. will the prime minister be able to get the british businesses in the middle of contracts with libya, any support and what weight you will be able to put

behind that. >> i think the honorable gentleman raises an important point. we not only got the mission in benghazi but our mission will be established in tripoli as well and have it and the constituency will be able to help him with that contract. >> i commend the prime minister for his leadership throughout this episode. what is the latest treasury estimates of the cost of british intervention in libya and given $15 billion assets to be unfrozen and given it is an oil-rich nation, surely it isn't unreasonable to ask for a contribution that the taxpayers of britain spent. >> you make a reasonable point. the costs have been 120 million pounds in terms of our contribution to operation. the cost in terms of the mission

spent is somewhere in excess of that figure, i think around 140 million pounds. clearly britain has spent money to help the libyan people to free themselves. and as you say, this is a wealthy country. we haven't had these conversations to date, but i'm sure those are things we can take into account in the future. >> i congratulate the prime minister in the leadership role played by him and his team but does he agree that this is ultimately a libyan problem? >> this wouldn't have happened without the libyan people. they took the initiative. we were able to help them. but it's important for the future development of the country that young libyans learn about the heroic things their fathers and grandfathers did. this is what they did for themselves. in terms of history and pride and what they are going to build

will be important for the future. >> could the prime minister that he is still in the united kingdom and if not. what part did he play inletting him leave the united kingdom and if he isn't in the united kingdom how can our intelligence services properly debrief him? >> i think he is in doha but my understanding he is cooperating fully and was questioned by the police and no sweetheart deals done in terms of him and the police investigation will continue. >> the act of surrendering is probably the most dangerous thing a competent has to do. how can we encourage the forces of the t.n.c. to act within the

rules of war, specifically the geneva convention? because if they do, it will encourage the remnants of gaddafi's forces to surrender quicker and have less loss of life? >> my honorable friend speaks from great knowledge about this and right to make this point. i have been impressed by the fact that the free libya forces have extended the deadline for gaddafi forces to surrender. of course, there have been reports of abuse on all sides, although frankly the gaddafi war crimes put everything else in perspective. but on the whole, it has been remarkable how the free libya forces have behaved. >> i congratulate the prime minister on the work he did going to the u.n. before any military action was taken in

libya. and a constituent of mine fled libya and nothing but praise that they were from benghazi and were in fear of their lives having originally been british citizens. can you assure the house and the country that it will be the policy of this government that there will be no military action taking place anywhere in this world unless it is through the u.n. and nato a can i ask him to bear that in mind since the recent u.s. reports? >> only thing i can give that assurance, i think it's important that britain is able to act in self-defense and sometimes there isn't time to go to the u.n. or nato or whatever. i don't believe in giving that sort of assurance. in this issue, it was right to go to the u.n. and right to act with allies and bring together arab partners to work with us and at all times, we should try

and build the broadest alliances. >> the prime minister has recognized game-changing roles. could you join with me in recognizing the work placed by uniform personnel? >> the tornadoes performeder magnificently as well as the typhoon and that is a tribute to the pilots and ground crew and all those involved in building, manufacturing and maintaining this aircraft and i think touching the wood, there have been very good performance of those airplanes and their crews. >> could i join in congratulating the prime minister on leading the effort in libya. it is refreshing to see he leads

from the front. could he give us a few more details on the humanitarian aid that britain and the international community is providing. >> i'm happy to do that. we provided help to provide medical assistance and provided food for 700,000 people. i think in terms of the humanitarian situation, we have always been ready to do more and the planning carried out has been first class. the needs haven't always been as great as predicted because the libyans have responded themselves to deal with shortages and problems. >> jason mccartney. >> a lot of lessons have been learned by not helping the dictators with their university course work but one of the elements of this success is the role of the arab logan the role

played by nations like qatar. will the prime minister implore the arab league to condemn what is happening in syria? >> i think my honorable frind makes a good point. i think it has been a great moment for the arab logan the role that many have played have made it possible and we should reassess how we work with these countries and what more we can do training and working together because it has been successful the this occasion. >> may i praise the military effort and the policies of the prime minister and he is right to say this is a civil uprising, but does he agree with me that one of the consequences of the international action in the civil uprising was that many more civilian lives were saved and the fact that the

international community were prepared to take a role shows to other countries whether it was democracies against dictators, that we will play an appropriate role? >> i'm grateful that my friend says. dictators would have taken note about what has happened and recognize that the long arm of international law could have as i put it, a long reach and a long memory. i want to pay tribute to our armed forces and all those responsible for targeting, the huge work that was done to avoid civilian cambingts and infrastructure. one of the reasons why parts of libya are getting back to work is because a lot of the civilian infrastructure was left untouched. >> could i congratulate the prime minister both in his role throughout this conflict and on the way he has charted, would he

agree that israel pulling out with his own allied turkey shortly after the border problems with egypt are not making life any easier for the forces in the arab logan those who want to move the region forward? >> i think my honorable friend is entirely right. we need to encourage israel to work with all of its moderate friends and allies for a safe and secure future. and obviously, that is more difficult than relations between israel and turkey -- more challenged. i think he is entirely right. >> it's refreshing to see the prime minister leading from the front, but i'm concerned about the investigation into fletcher. could i have assurances from the prime minister that all avenues shall be followed to bring the perpetrator of these crimes? >> i can give my honorable

friend that assurance and i raised the case with the prime minister at the paris conference. i think it is important that allow this government to get its feet under the table in tripoli before we press this amount further. but it is a police investigation and urge them to push what they can to push it forward. >> we have heard this afternoon, there are a number of businesses, including some of my own constituency who have been adversely affected by the conflicts in libya, largely unpaid bills. will he agree to whatever reasonable channels to put pressure to pay those bills as soon as possible to protect british companies and work with the business department in the future to put in place a system that will protect business if they do business in these volatile countries?

>> the government can't stand behind every contract and every firm in the world. but i can understand why he feels strongly on behalf of his constituents and we have embassies around the world and in tripoli, we will have a new ambassador and a new team around him that will make progress on all of these issues. >> i agree with the prime minister that we shouldn't rush to judgment, but would he agree with me that it is the government to send u.k. police officers to libya to train gaddafi forces when those responsible for fletcher's murder were still at large? >> i think my honorable friend makes an important point. he is right to form a relationship with libya when he gave up weapons of mass destruction, but we had to do it in the right way and i don't believe we made progress on

issues like the murder of fletcher and the other case wasn't handled in the right way. >> mr. henry smith. >> thank you very much, mr. speaker. five years ago, the then government invited two of gaddafi sons were visiting headquarters. what lessons can we learn when it comes to abusive dictatorships? >> if they invited him again, would have treated him quite differently. as i said, right to have a new relationship, wrong to be quite so gullible in how that was carried out. and for all the things that have been said, i think helping complete the thesis is not a role that prime ministers should enter into. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011]

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> prime minister david cameron will likely take more questions on libya as the role of the ongoing inquire about the phone hacking and the recent riots in his country. you can see this live wednesday on c-span 2. here is a look at our prime time schedule on c-span. starting tonight at 8:00 eastern, mitt romney outlines his job plans to supporters in nevada. and house minority leader and other leaders have their own jobs plans calling it make it america. and homeland security janet napolitano and rudy giuliani and how the country has changed. and with several presidential candidates as well as other

politicians holding briefings on ideas for job creation the president will hold a joint session of congress. he'll speak at 7:00 p.m. eastern and we'll have live coverage on c-span and take your phone calls after the speech. >> in 1844, henry clay ran for president of the united states and lost, but he changed political history. he is one of the 14 men featured in the new weekly series "the contenders." friday at 8:00 eastern. >> now t.s.a. administrator on aviation security since 9/11 and what his organization looks for concerning suspicious behavior in passengers. this is 50 minutes.

>> good morning everyone. i'm director of the homeland security and counterterrorism program here at the center of strategic and international studies. i thank you for braving the first day of school and bad weather and this very hectic week we have in advance of front of us. we are honored to have t.s.a. administrator john pistole to speak. since 9/11 and its creation has been the center and focal point and discussions about what the appropriate role is for homeland security and in particular transportation security. we know t.s.a. many years, we relate t.s.a. that the american public has to the individual who does the screening at the airport and unfortunately that's not all that it does and the portfolio is much more broader

and deeper than that in itself. and in advance of the t.s.a. has made over the years, despite the criticisms and the media focusing on where they went wrong, the advances that t.s.a. has made is quite remarkable. one of the things going forward in this threat we are facing and see increase in transnational threats and going to cross our borders is this continued struggle between what the right balance is between privacy and security and t.s.a. is at the forefront of that debate. every day, individual officers are in the field that have to deal with that balance between privacy and security and it is extremely difficult. we have an organization with a charter like that who you don't get a lot of pats on the back when you do a pastdown the right way. someone doesn't say nice job.

only get criticized when something goes wrong. to manage an organization like that when that's your charter is, you don't get a lot of praise when you do it right, it requires a significant amount of leadership and management skills. he has been a lifelong government servant. most of those at the f.b.i. and was at 9/11. he brings the type of leadership and type of integrity to an organization that -- like for today, he's going to have 35 or 40 minutes of remarks and then some questions. when the microphone comes around, please stand, state your name and affiliation, and we look forward to hearing the administrator's remarks. thank you for attending.

>> thank you for that introduction. it's a privilege to be here this morning. i appreciate the opportunity to focus on some of the issues we are dealing with today but also use this time to reflect, look back on where we were on 9/11 and where we have come in the past decade. what we are doing today and then as we look forward to the next 10 years, so that's how my comments will be focused this morning. we obviously have had the opportunity, especially in this last week and this week as we come up to the 10th anniversary on sunday, to see a lot of coverage about where people were, what was going on, how lives were changed, how lives were lost, a number of you, i'm sure, watched some of those over the weekend. as we look forward to how we can do the best possible job of making sure that a tragedy such as 9/11 doesn't happen again,

we have to be mindful of where we have come from in that context. i think it is critically important. so i'd like to, this morning, dedicate these comments to the mihms of 9/11, to the heroes who knowing the dangers they faced, the hundreds of firefighters, law enforcement officers, who went into the trade center towers to rescue those in peril and i just want to take a moment of silence in remembrance of them. >> so we talk about the events of 9/11 and it's easy to lose sight of what happened. as we see the memorials and tributes, it brings it all

back. just as it was a defining event for a certain generation, similar to pearl harbor or j.f.k. assassination, whatever the defining event was in your generation, it's easy to think of what you were doing, where you were and how you responded to that. i'm sure that you've had that opportunity and as you think about this coming sunday and the 10th anniversary, again, i think the context is important for where we have been, where we are trying to get to. i was an f.b.i. agent on 9/11, assigned to our special division out at f.b.i. headquarters, i was in new york state, in syracuse to do an inspection of the office there and i just completed an outside interview with a local media outlet there and had arrived at a local judge's office, chambers there, to interview him about how that office was

doing. when i got to the judge's office, there was -- the tv was on and there was talk and coverage of the north tower being in flames and shortly after that, we realized something was terribly wrong and i excused myself and went back to the office. it was moments after i arrived there that i watch aid long with many of you either on tv along with millions to see the second plane hit the south tower there. just the sense of it being surreal, that this can't be happening, and that -- but yet it was happening. i think the real impact was when the first tower collapsed in the sense that -- two things, really, came to mind. this changes everything and what is next? and of course the what is next part played out over the next

minutes as we learned about the plane hitting the pentagon and of course in shanksville, the crash there. from an f.b.i. perspective, the question was, what else is out there? the law enforcement and intelligence community, what can we do to stop anything further? are there just four planes? are there orr attacks planned that haven't been carried out? all those things. so when we look at what happened there, obviously today's topic of aviation security, we look at the state of aviation security on 9/11 and i've actually seen some commentators waxs no tallic -- nostalgically when unged walk out to meet your friends an loved ones at the gate, whatever it may be, very limited lines, and that was clearly a different era. if you think to where, what type of security we had then.

it was basically walk through metal detectors that picked up metal items, knives or guns, that were primarily used for hijackings, particularly to cuba. that was the reason they were initiated decades ago. and then the basic x-ray for your carry on bags. streamlined process. as we know from the photograph, from the port, maine, oirpt on 9/11, at 5:45 that morning, when the hijackers walked through portland security with their box cutters and were able to get on the flight to boston where they joined up with three other hijackers on american airlines flight 11, the airport security at that time was limited. it was basic. and it was insufficient. the response to the attacks obviously was for a number of things to happen, but in

regards to t.s.a. on november 19, congress passed a bill and the president signed a bill creating transportation security administration, at that time part of the department of transportation and so when we look at what the mandate was to the entire u.s. defense community, intelligence, law enforcement, security apparatus, the president's mandate was, don't let this happen again system of over the course of the next year, t.s.a. ramped up from zero to nearly 50,000 employees. one of the greatest mass hirings if you will, in u.s. history, in terms of a response to an event such as 9/11. and what has happened since then is a refinement in some respects, expansion in other respects, of where auation security has focused. as was mentioned, the t.s.a. has other responsibilities,

primarily as a force multiplier to state and local transit agencies, so i won't comment on that at this point, but i'll take your questions and comments on that. that's where we were on 9/11. since then, obviously, much has changed and the president's mandate at that time and continuing in this administration is to not let that happen again. the challenge has become, how have we evolved and how have we been able to stay a step ahead of them in terms of their ingenuity, their creativity, their ability to -- ability to adapt and design, conceal, and deploy explosive devices such as we saw whether on richard reid in december of 2001, a few months later, or the liquids plot out of the u.k. in 2006, or as we saw on christmas day and of course the plot last

october where terrorists see what layers of security we have put in place and modify their approach to try to ensure they can get past our security. of course the latest intelligence now is about surgically implanted devices that suicide bombers would have so they would not -- so we would not be able to detect the small devices such as the terrorist had on christmas day of 2009. we believe we have been successful in pushing them to further extremes, if you will, in terms of their concealment and their capability, mindful that we need to ensure that we don't allow a repeat of a prior attack. so let's just look at some of the things we have done collectively since 9/11 when it comes to ave jation security. if i asked each of you to write down some of the things, a number of things come to mind. most notably would be the check

point. the check point that you must go through at one of the u.s.'s 450 airports or across -- or of course around the world. nearly 275 points of departure that fly to the u.s., certain protocols and regimen that have become symbolic of the government's response to 9/11. with over 1.8 million people every day traveling domestically, the t.s.a. screens 12.5 million a week, 50 million plus a month, 625 million people every year and going up this year. you can see the challenge that the men and women of t.s.a. have to ensure they provide the most effective security in the most efficient way, providing the best customer service issue, if you will, but not at the expense of security. the bottom line is, we have to make sure we're doing everything we can while respecting privacy and civil

liberty, a lot of debate about that, as to ensuring that another 9/11 doesn't happen. so think of the check point and what happens there now instead of just the walk through metal detector. that's still available but there's also advances in technology and i'm pleased that we -- the technology has developed and we are modifying at least half of those scanners to what we call automatic target recognition, it gives a generic outline of a person so in the next 30 days or so, we should have half of all of those machines, 450 or so around the country, modified so it gives a generic outline of a person so it doesn't do the more revealing individual image. contrary to what has been in the press quite a bit, at least the things i saw and parodies on shows, it was not nearly as revealing as what was depected oftentimes but there are

privacy issues that we are trying to be attuned to while making sure we provide the best detection capability so someone who is perhaps here in the u.s., inspired by al qaeda or another terrorist group and has gone on the internet, learned how to devise a device similar to that that's nonmetallic and get through a walk-through metal detector, that will be picked up by the advanced imaging technology. that's one noticeable change. also we have explosive detection capabilities. some of you that travel may have your hands swabbed, if you're in line or whatever, to expose explosives. we have advanced technology for the bags, a number of different iterations of that. the bottom line is, as passengers pack more of their personal items in their carry

on bags so they don't have to pay a check bag fee, i'm sure none of you have done that here, but as people do that, it makes detection more difficult for security officers looking at the screen. if any of you had not had an opportunity or have done that, i would just say to see what the items look like, be patient with those security officers who are looking because it is very challenging to look for an organic mass and an initiator. those are two things we're looking for in terms of an improvised explosive device and there are many things that look like an initiator or organic mass. the challenge is, how do we resolve those issues, those anomalies, if you will in a timely way that provides, again, the most eventive security but in the most efficient way. so we have the advanced technology x-ray. we have bottle liquid scanners. we are working on technology to

get to a point where we can allow liquids back on planes, but we are not there. we have been working closely with the european union and the european parliament's mandate to allow liquids back on planes by april of 2013. the technology is not there yet but we're working on that. also some other risk-based security initiatives which i'll talk about in just a few minutes. and so, that's what is happening at the check point. what is not -- what you do not see, hopefully, because unless you're down in the cargo area, is the in line baggage systems that we have worked with industry to develop a high speed process for screening of explosives, screening checked bags for explosives. pre-9/11, that didn't happen. pan am 103 did change procedures for matching the person to a bag on an international flight uh but

does not require, no legislation was enacted to require that those bags then be screened for explosives. that has been a major development and change, again, you probably don't see, shouldn't see in most instances but we have millions of bags that we screen every day and both from the checked bags and the carry on bags to look for explosives that could be catastrophic to the aircraft. that's something else that's out there. also detection officers didn't exist on 9/11. the question is, if they'd been at portland, maine, or dulles or newark would they have picked up on these individuals. hopefully so. that's something we'll never know. but the idea is to give us yet another opportunity in a layered defense to identify, deter, and disrupt terrorists who are bent on causing disruption. how do we best go about doing that? it is true that the layers of

defenses that we have, that's all on this physical side of things, where we are making significant progress is on the technology intelligence side of things. secure flight is of course our system that requires the name, date of birth, and gender of all travelers, all those 1.8 million people every day and allows us to do some definitive checking against the terrorist watch list. the terrorist watch list, part of 9/11. we're limited, at best. the idea of being able t t t t level of accuracy was quite limited, frankly, prior to last year, about now, last october, actually, full rollout of secure flight. previously airlines maintained lists and so we would not know, for example, if there were a half dozen selectees or no

flies wanting to travel if they were on different aims, we would not know that information perhaps until the last minute if at all. so the advent of secure flight was just recognized by the 9/11 commission as being one of the good technology developments and we use that from an intelligence-based perspective to say we want to be a counterterrorism organization that is informed by intelligence from the community and this is one of those key enablers that allows us to do that. the other product i'll touch on briefly is in car go. going back to pan a.m. 103 and we see what can happen with cargo that's not thoroughly screened, we see what happened with the yemen cargo plot, when there's some screening. but because of the ability for terrorists to design and

conceal those so that even on inspection they look like normal computer printers. that's a challenge. when we look at cargo, i don't think people realize that there is -- there are millions of pounds of cargo on passenger planes every day. overnight half a million pounds of cargo will go on passenger planes. all that cargo is also screened for explosives and that's done through a partnership with the private sector. t.s.a. has that responsibility. it's something you don't see, it's another layer of security that we're trying to ensure you and your loved ones are safe, even if it's cargo or checked bags that a person may have on them. 9.5 million pounds, that's 10% of all the cargo that's screened or uplifted in the u.s. every day, both domestic and overseas locations.

it's not an insignificant amount, it is something that's required for us to give the likest level of confidence that we are doing everything we can with the best training techniques and tactics to provide that highest level of security, recognizing that as we move forward, there's no guarantee in this business. so let me transition from where we were on 9/11 to what we've been doing the last two years to the way forward and whether it's the next 10 days, weeks, months, or years, there's a lot of work being done to provide the most effective security in the most efficient way. the one part of that is recognizing that in order to give a 100% guarantee of safety and security for each and every passenger flight and cargo flight would require a paradigm shift of what we're doing now to even more stringent security measures, both for passengers

and cargo, which would frankly inhibit the free movement of goods and people with the best security in significant ways. we saw that after the yemen cargo not. -- plot. we had meetings, i met with the head of the world customs organization, the head of the universe union, who is affected by cargo, the national federal aviation organization and the national maritime organization to work with them to find a business-based model that would provide the most effective security without unduly restricting the global supply chain because that's what happened when we put immediate cargo ban hold on anything coming out of yemen. the ripple effect, the impact of that, was significant. in working with industry, we have been heartened by industry's own risk management strategies, particularly here in the u.s., to buy down that

risk of somebody putting a -- something in cargo that could cause catastrophic failure and they're doing that without government regulation. so they are taking their own risk mitigation and risk management steps, recognizinger that not in the risk elimination business, ju as we are not in the risk mitigation business. we do what we can to mitigate risk. it's within that construct we have been working for the better part of the year on risk-based security initiatives which encompasses a number of different things, some of which you've heard about and some we have not talked about publicly yet but will later this fall or next year. some of the ones that are known, are, for example, what we're doing in terms of identity based screenings for pilots. i worked the egyptair 990 crash in 1999 where we did thal vadge

operation with the navy and others trying to find evidence of what brought down that crash. it wasn't until later that we realized that it was not because of catastrophic failure, it was because of an individual on board who got control of the co-pilot and put the aircraft down. that was a stark reminder, when i took over this job that no amount of physical screening will detect what's in a person's head. it made little sense to me that we should require pilots who are in charge of the aircraft to go through screening when if they had a prohibited item on them, whether it's a small knife or whatever it may be, that is not going to be what causes failure to an aircraft, it's what's in their mind. that's one example. we are working with industry, with the airlines, the airports, and the travel

associations to have a known, trusted traveler expansion of what customs and border protection does with their global entry sentry and nexus networks, people pay a fee, go through an application process have a background done, we have a higher level of confidence in who those people are because we know more about them. not a guarantee, but we know more about them. that's critical because under this risk-based initiative, the whole idea is to focus on those we know the least about or the most about because they're on a terrorist watch list and then be able to focus our resources on those individuals and then to enable us to do that, we need to do something else in terms of more intelligence screening on the front end and then we can expedite those who we know a lot about. there was a number of you in the audience who have a security clearance, secret, top

secret, the question is we know a lot about you, you're in trusted positions, should you have to go through the same screening as somebody without? that's an example. again, no -- it does give us an opportunity with the other layers of security in place to make some advances in that regard. with working with the airlines, as i mentioned, we are hoping next month to do some proof of concepts in at least four airports with frequent fliers as higher levels starting off, anyway, who are willing to share information about themselves through their airline and say, yes, i am willing to share that i am a frequent flyer. as we look at travel history and things later on, we'll be able to make more informed judgments as to what risk this person poses.

if you've been flying for 20, 25, 30 years and you are at this level, for all those years, it's possible you're a terrorist. but not likely. so as we can, again, use more intelligence to shape and form our judgments and dillingses, i think we can make a better process of, again, most effective security in the most efficient way. we're also looking at ways to streamline the screening of childrening recognizing that children aren't terrorists, unfortunately, we know that people do use them to do bad things. we have several examples of children 10 and under from around the world, nothing involving aviation, but we're mindful that terrorists are always looking to exploit the norms and morets to cause us -- and mores to cause us horm. the bottom line is to use more intelligence on the front end and secure flight enables us to

do that, to embed information on the boarding pass in conjunction with the aims and allow for folks in that way. there's been talk about a check point of the future, international air traveler association has been a strong proponent of that. i'm also a proponent of that. the technology is not there but the idea is that you could actually just walk through without them seeing anything, but walk through security scanners that would pick up explosives that cause catastrophic failures in aircraft. that's great idea. something that is being explored, the technology is not there to do that. all these opportunities we have to shift the paradigm and try to tailor the security screening, involving intelligence, involving physical screening, involving

random and unpredictable because we will always maintain that, there are no guarantees in this risk 46 based security initiative, i allow -- refuse to allow terrorists to game the system, if i build this record, i'm guaranteed no screening. we'll maintain that random aspect. thank you for your time and attention this morning, i look forward to your questions and comments. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you for though comments. we're going to do the question and answer period but before -- i was remiss when i introduced administrator pistole, i think one of his greatest achievements was the fact that he was confirmed by unanimous consent in the senate. so the t.s.a. to get that after all the controversies, is a

testament to the kind of leader t.s.a. currently has. with that, let's go to questions and answers. wait for the microphones to come around. we do have media, they're trying to capture these. please state your name and affiliation and questions, no statements, i will ask you to sit down. >>, fox news channel, with respect to the christmas day underwear bomber, is iting an rat to say that we were lucky that the explosives didn't ignite because his pants were damp? more broadly, is it fair to say that we get lucky more -- lucky that more of these plots don't succeed? excuse me. >> i think we were fortunate on christmas day. the question i would look back at is, what have our layers of security done to force

terrorists to adopt different means of concealment? so whether there's something either in design, construction or the fact that he'd been traveling for 17 or 18 hour, did that have something to do with it, there are a lot of unknowns. the bottom line is if it had detonated as intended, it would have likely caused catastrophic failure to the aircraft. >> the gentleman over here on the right hand side, please. >> i'm tony fineberg for the institute for defenseage cease. along the lines of risk-based assessment, you made reference to four incidents since 9/11, on inbound flights, has more

emphasis been on inbound flights? >> our question is how to ensure that our partners are doing everything they can, we work with our counterparts, security services, law enforcement and governments and the airlines and airport authorities in those departures, particularly, to ensure they are doing that requisite, at least baseline security, and then as we get additional information, such as the information gleaned after the christmas day attack and so forth, we look at those opportunities. the risk-based security initiative we are working on is designed to start here domestically to make sure that we can get it right here and then we've been in dialogue with a number of foreign governments and private industry who are very much interested in how this works

and then for us expanding that to those flights that would be impacted internationally but we're focused first domestically. >> the gentleman here in the blue suit, please. >> good morning. mike goldman, you talked a little bit about cargo on passenger-carrying aircraft. is all cargo on international passenger bearing aircraft be screen -- being screened, not just x-raying but other techniques you have available? >> right now, 100% of all high-risk cargo is being screened inbound to the u.s. we don't define that because we don't want to provide a road map to the terrorists to say, if we can get out of the high risk category. we have two constructs, known shippers and known shipments. if there's an existing

relationship with the shipper and that has been existing for a certain am of time and we know the products they ship, fortune 500 countries or whomever, that's one aspect. the other, if it's not in that category, is it a known ship. using the yemen cargo plot as an example, the fact that a young woman dropped off two computer printers with clothes and books and was paying $500 to send those two packages on different aircraft to chicago that doesn't make much sense from an intelligence, risk-based information. it's that type of information, advance cargo information is very, very helpful in defining who the known shipper and known shipments. so without going into too much detail, that's the construct. >> all right, next question. the gentleman here in the blue shirt.

>> good morning. i'm a private citizen. question on the r.b.s., risk based security. it seems like you're talking about profiling but without saying the word. how are we going to socialize the american people to accept that? and the second part if i may, are we taking any of the israeli airlines' lessons learned and practices into our own practice? >> well, first let me say, you're not just an american citizen, you're who we're working for. it's the men and women of t. st. a. working every day to keep you and your loved ones safe. what we try to do is, frankly, underprom and overdeliver in terms of how to do this in an iterative process. i mentioned the pilots, maybe that's common sense. we also have worked with world war ii veterans who come into

d.c. to see the world war ii memorial on charter flights and work with them to do more identity-based screening as opposed to typical physical screening. there's a chance that one of these elderly gentlemen, the young zest in his late 80's, is a terrorist, but it's not likely. how can we place some more common sense in the policies we use? the socialization and acceptance by the american people is critical in terms of making it viable. if our groups who are trusted are known, such a small group, then it won't make much difference to the 1.8 million people traveling every day. what we are working with, through the airlines and through some outreach, is saying, it's all voluntary if you don't want to share information about yourself, that's fine, go through the normal screening protocol. if you'd like the possibility, the probability of expedited physical screening and you're willing to share information about yourself, then we're

interested in that and how we can use that in a constructive way to do the best possible security in the most efficient way. >> next question. here in the back, left-hand side. microphone is coming around. >> thank you. what is your vision vis-a-vis the future of this process, you know that we in this country, many people, are quite upset about the extensive process that goes on, what do you foresee we could evolve into with respect to our, you know, end game in terms of going through the process of screening. >> could you state your name and affiliation? >> dan gibbons, georgetown. >> the whole idea is, we'll use

an analogy. we're looking for the one in a ball, or whatever it might be. since december of 2001, we've had nearly six billion people travel in the u.s. that t.s.a. has screened. we didn't start screening until 2002. there have been no shoe bombs and simply from a probability standpoint, that's something that we are interested in looking at. what does intelligence tell us, have shoe bombs been used around the world? no, they haven't even though the e.u. has that many people traveling in the same time frame. it's using intelligence in an informed way, the end stay will be evolving. i don't think it's reasonable to say, two-year plan, five-year plan, 10-year plan, this is what it's going to look at. we are always evolving. hopefully ahead of the terrorists, and they evolve but

the general approach is to provide more intelligence, to expedite the physical screening in as many opportunities as we can. so we reduce the size of the hay stack so that needle we're looking for is smaller than what we started with under our previous one size fits all construct. >> thank you. mark fray. let's go back to the trusted travelers expedited screening. i wonder if you have a sense of what the expedited screening is. i know there's going to be randomness. for global entry, you get a specific tangible benefit you go to a kiosk, don't have to wait in line. maybe we don't have to take off our shoes or we get to carry a bottle of water on, what is your thought of what the person

will get? >> what we're doing in proof of concept is really three things, one a dedicated lane for them you don't stand in the regular lane. you do get to keep your shoes on and three, you can keep your laptop in the briefcase or carrying case. those are the three tangible benefits that we are looking at, again, you may end up -- may do that nine times, you're a 1-k or 2-k fliers, the last nine times you may have gone through the dedicated lane, the 10th time you may go through regular screening because it's random and unpredictable. >> right here in the middle. >> hi. can you please -- please comment as to whether possible budget cuts would affect t.s.a., especially when it comes to personnel?

>> we're very mindful, we work for the taxpayers, there's a lot of the us -- focus on how every government agency can be more efficient. the bottom lean is we don't have a lessening of security because of budget cuts. i as administrator have to look at a 60,000 person organization and say how can we achieve efficiency in a way that does not adversely affect security. for the last six months, we've been doing through a series of reviews, internal reviews and exercises, to identify areas where we can be more efficient while not impacting security. >> i have one question. we talked a lot about, obviously, t.s.a. is on the front lines, interacting on a daily basis throughout the entire transportation system, but i'll put you on the spot and say, what can t.s.a., what

do you need from the american people? what a can they do to help improve the transportation security system? >> well, the -- at the risk of misquoting a president in a different way, president jefferson talked about an informed electorate being the best defense of democracy, for us a well-informed traveler is the best defense against a terrorist. because oning it's somebody who knows how to prepare for security screening, two, they'll be attuned to things that don't seem right. so the whole if you see something, say something campaign is particularly for those who are frequent travelers who recognize when somebody is not being what they should be or whatever. so it's that partnership that i would say is critical for us. and then, frankly, be patient with us as we rule out some of the risk -- as we roll out some

risk-based security initiatives, we'll need time to make sure we get it right, we may need to recalibrate, we're doing a behavior assessment, a program at boston-logan now. some of you may have been through that, just a brief interview, but i ask for patience and cooperation as the bottom line is to make sure another 9/11 doesn't happen or something elsewhere they come up with a creative scheme that just hasn't been identified. >> thank you. another question from the audience. the gentleman in the front row here. >> in your opening remarks, you mentioned amtrak as an, oh, by the way. if you think about the european terrorist bombings over the last several years, they seem to be train or subway oriented. if you go to union station, you see police with dogs, if you

get on the train at new london, connecticut, you go to a kiosk and buy a ticket and get on the train and there's nothing obvious. is the train system a soft underbelly we're not paying attention to? >> i didn't mean to give short shrift, the focus today is airport security. some terrorists see railway stations as vulnerable but one thing we do is we can't be all things to all people at all places at all times so how do we leverage our resources to augment or enhance, whether it's amtrak police or transit authorities of the major systems around the country an you just look at the ridership.

eight million plus every day around the country on subways and things. vastly greater numbers. i think that's where the ran dm and unpredictable comes in. amtrak does a great job of having uniformed patrols, things that are designed to throw off terrorists. we know of briefings of terrorists who have cooperated, three things they focus on is officers, canines and cctv, and the last one only if you're not a suicide bomber. in london, one looked at cctv, he condition care because he was going to be dead and as many people as heck kill with him. we have response teams designed to do just that, provide

unpredictable posture but recognizing that there are challenges that are significant every day and that it's through that partnership with the american people the metro transit chief in boston with the see something, say something, campaign, taking a 10-foot backpack if you will and put it out by different stops and it says something like, it won't always be this obvious. just the idea that -- or a huge package a fedex or u.p.s. package, it won't usually be this obvious system of what can we do in terms of being informed and responsive. not just informed but to be responsive to address the challenges. >> next question. in the back, please. >> good morning.

i'm with talk radio news service. thank you for sharing all this enhanced security measures that t.s.a. has implemented but i'm curious as to whether we really are safer. i travel regularly and i get shavers and liquids through regularly so how do we know terrorists aren't doing the same? >> the bottom line is, yes, i think the consensus is and i strongly believe that we are safer than we were but we recognize again it's not a perfect system. it's not a 100% guarantee. both the government accountability office, the inspector general office, our own office of inspections does covert red team testing to try to get things through at check points and have had successes. a number of successes. and that led with the intelligence we know about how terrorists are trying to field

things, that presents challenges that we say let's make sure we are looking at those items that can be catastrophic damage to an aircraft. that's why i mentioned the organic mass and initiator of an i.e.d. those are things we are looking for because you have to have something -- some type of explosive whether it's liquid. when you say you're taking liquids on, you've got a 16 ounce or pint or liter bottle, hopefully it's a smaller size but part of it is how do we best position our resources to identify those threats which may be catastrophic? >> there'll be a law enforcement officer at the back after this. any other questions? anyone else? all right, going once, going twice -- all right. mr. pistole, thank you once

again. i know this is a very busy week for you. we appreciate your time and your leadership at the t.s.a., and thank you for coming to csis. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> here's a look at our primetime schedule here on c-span.

starting at 8:00 eastern, republican presidential candidate mitt romney outlines his jobs plans to supporters in nevada. then house minority leader nancy pelosi and other minority leaders on their own jobs plans which they're calling make it in america. after that, homeland security secretary janet napolitano and former new york mayor rudy giuliani recall the 9/11 attacks and how the can'try has changed since that day. on "washington journal" tomorrow, karen kerrigan talks about the u.s. economy and president obama's upcoming jobs speech to a joint session of congress. then national institutes of health director dr. francis collins discusses recent innovations in medicine, including advancements in reusable drugs and roger loewenstein on the 40th

anniversary on president nixon unveiling a plan that stopped backing the u.s. dollar with gold and how it's been affected since then. that's live on wednesday at 7:00 a.m. eastern. >> next weekend, the 10-year anniversary of 9/11 on the c-span networks with live coverage from each memorial site, new york city, shanksville, pennsylvania, and the pentagon. here's our live schedule. saturday on c-span, at 12:30 p.m. eastern, the flight 93 national memorial dedication from shanksville, pennsylvania, and sunday morning at 8:30, a memorial at the world trade center site with president obama and former president bush. on c-span3 at 9:30, honoring those who lost their lives on united flight 93. 9/11 remembered. next weekend on the c-span networks.

>> earlier today, nasa astronaut said the international space station crew is preparing a plan to keep the station running should it have to be temporarily abandoned. a new crew is set to arrive this month. this is a half-hour. >> station houston on two, are you ready for the event. >> houston, we are ready for the event. >> please call the station for a voice check. >> station, this is jaccpo, how do you hear me? >> good to hear you, we hear you loud and clear. >> abc news, let me start with ron. the observations you have made

from the space station of the hurricanes, the tropical storms, the typhoons and we're hoping you'll get video of the fires over texas later today have really been truly astonishing video. tell me from your perspective up there, when you're looking at powerful storms, how do you feel about that? i'd like -- we've heard a little bit but i'd like you to go into more detail though. >> actually, i'm just the junior weather apprentice. mike has been doing most of that. i've been focusing on taking pictures when mike has been focusing on the video. i can tell you, it's scary from up here as well. it's just -- when you see these massive storms and see how powerful they are and realize that -- the destruction they can wreak as they pass across land, just just really awe-inspiring from up here. it's terrifying. mike, do you want to add to

that? >> three years ago, right around now, you and i and our families were ripping the carpet and furniture out of ron's house in houston because he had 3 1/2 feet of water in it from a hurricane. so they're scary on the ground and they're scary to see from up here. >> we're aware of the negotiations and research and investigation going into the failure of the progress launch and the impact that could have on you. what additional training are you getting for possibly having to deman the space station? tell me about that process. >> we're -- just as the investigation is kicking off and it's finishing up its second week now, there's a lot of work to do in that arena. the teams mostly on the ground, there's a lot of efforts going on to look at all the different options that could possibly come into play. first, obviously, we're going to have a shorthandover with the new crew, if any at all.

it's possible we'll have a station without any people on it hopefully for only a short period of time. those plans, we haven't started anything specific up here pertaining to that except for maybe documenting some of the things we do on video so that we can, you know, use video products for part of the training for the next crew. we'll be getting into the details of what it takes to turn out the lights in the weeks ahead. >> and ron, one last question for you. you have been talking a lot about the fradgic oasis. how does seeing it from up there bring home to you how fragile this planet is? >> well, i don't think it's possible to look at the earth from up here without being moved in some way. you know, looking down at the earth, we've been saying this for 50 years, we've been coming to space for 50 years and you know, everybody that sees this, you know, has a very similar thing to say, they're just

struck by the fragility of our planet, the thin atmosphere and everything else and ewe know, we always say that you can't see borders from space as well but apparently you can. i've got some pictures that show border scenes at night that i'll get out very soon. but the point is not, you know, whether or not we can see a border from space. the point is whether we can look down at earth and empathize with the struggles and challenges everybody faces on the planet. that's something that is really apparent up here when you look down and you're struck by this beauty which really is indescribable. the h.d. cameras and everything we have, all the technology we have, really doesn't do it justice. we get as close as we possibly can but you're struck by this beauty on the one hand but also are faced with the unfortunate realities of life on our plane et for a lot of its

inhabitants. i think if that's the main thing over the last five and a half months of being up here i've taken from this is that we're all in this together, we've got big, big challenges to solve on our planet but one of the ways we can do that is through the international cooperation we've proven on the international space station and this research facility we have built. a really good question and i'm looking forward to try to explain as best i can when i get back to earth what we experienced up here. >> this is jill polk, representing the "times-tribune" newspaper in scranton, pennsylvania. a two-part question for ron. how would you describe the importance of hometown support for astronauts and give an example of how your wife's relatives have supported you and her from scranton over the past six months. >> hi, jill, and hi, everybody

in scranton, it's good to be -- talking to the people of scranton. it's a wonderful place, near and dear to my heart. i had the happiest day of my life there when i got married there but yeah, the hometown support is critical. i really think it is. just support on the ground period is really important up here. you know, we are isolated, we are off the planet, we have a lot of technology to keep us connected, we have the internet and we have the phone and video conferencing and everything else but we're not seeing flocks of birds fly by, we're not smelling flowers, we are not living on earth or experiencing life on earth, it's something that we really, really miss. one of the ways we can overcome that and still feel connected is through the support that we get from our hometown and our family and our friends. i have regular contact with family members in scranton every time we fly over pennsylvania, i'm there at the

window with my camera trying to get shots of scranton and surrounding areas. as i know you know, it's a very, very beautiful part of the country. thanks for that question. >> thanks for the good word. as you know, chris ferguson is a native of philadelphia. what would you like to share with readers in scranton, regarding your shared experience when he visitted and also the shuttle's retirement especially from your unique perspective on orbit? >> chris and myself and mike, we were here in a bittersweet time, crossing a line in the sand, from construction of the space station to full utilization of the space station, from one chapter of our nation's history, the space shuttle chapter, to the next

chapter, which hopefully soon we'll be seeing humans exploring the rest of the solar system. it was bittersweet to see the end of the shuttle program on one hand but to see all the tuns that lie ahead and see this amazing research facility that we've constructed, we be the -- being the 15 nations of our international partnership. chris and i and everybody onboard, we reminisced and discussed, you know, and postulated, you know, what was going to happen next, what was going to happen down the line? and we are very, very optimistic and very excited about the discoveries that are going to be made right here, right on this orbital facility because we're conducting research here that simply can't be conducted anywhere on earth. i think we're going to see very shortly some of these breakthroughs that are going to be made possible through this research and that's one of the big things that we all felt really proud to be associated with.

>> hi, robert perlman with collectspace.com. one of the points of pride with the space station has been its continuous human presence a record of more than 4,000 days. considering the small chance that the presence would need to be interrupted as a result of the loss of the progress, is that continued human presence symbolic only? or do you see substantial value in having the crew constantly on orbit? >> robert, good to talk to you. you know, i think it's a source of pride, the fact that we've kept crews up here continuously for 10 1/2 years, maybe close to 11 years now. is it 11 years? >> close. >> we're getting there. it's a source of pride. i think it's important in many ways, too, the space station does require care and feeding. so it's, you know, it's important for us to be here if we possibly can.

as events unfold if that's not possible and we have to shut it down for a little while, we'll do our best to leave it in the best possible condition to make it through that downtime and have it prepared for the next crew to open the doors and >> working off that question, with the talk of demanning the space station, robotics on the space station and even recent observation by a popular science fiction blog that the fall 2011 season there will be no tv show featuring people on space ships, do you feel they are deassociating humans with someplace exploration and what can be done to reverse that trend? >> boy, i'll give that a try.

is there a risk of perhaps -- there's really nothing that beats -- i mean the power and majesty of a space shuttle launch to get your attention off of american soil and that is an attention getter. it's huge and dramatic and it's over for now. it's a little different when we are taking off in a different rocket in a foreign land and i understand that. but we aren't here for publicity. but getting to get the job done and take care of the space station and produce the results from all of the different experiments and investigations that are ongoing to the best much our ability. we need to continue to do a good job of telling the story, explaining why we are here and what we're doing and sharing the adventure of space and looking out the windows at the planet

below us and the heavens and stars above. >> and i was speaking with apollo 15 pilot who spoke about the value of putting people in lunar orbit. the space station observes the earth, but so do satellites. what is the advantage of having a human behind the camera that satellites do not capture or provide? >> that's a good question. and it kind of goes -- very similar to the question that mike just answered. you know, we have had robotic exploration and human exploration and what we are seeing now and proving now is that the most effective form of exploration is a collaborative form with both robotics and humans together and we have seen

that. earth observation satellites serve a wonderful role and very important, but there is something to be said for looking out the window and spotting a fire and grabbing a camera and taking a picture just because we happen to be here and looking out the window. there's also, you know, a feeling that you can get when you're up here and we try as best we can with our video and cameras to capture that feeling, to capture not just the views but the 1's and 0's, but capture this moment, this experience as best we can to try and show you what we are seeing and you can't do that from a satellite being controlled from the earth, because it's a different view. that person who is controlling that is not experiencing it like we are.

>> i'm from "aviation week and space technology" have you ever already taken measures to sort of enhance either general operations or science research on the station for a period of time if you do have to unstaff the space station. are you doing some things to sort of keep it operating the best it can, keep the scientists as best they can if there is no one on the station for a short period of time? thank you. >> hey, mark, it's great to hear your voice today. so far, we have not begun any of those. the team in houston are deciding everything from what ventilation we are going to leave running, what lights we are going to leave on, what condition each

particular experiment will be on, every tank, every valve, every hatch. there is a lot to do. and they are beginning that work right now and it's too early for us to get worried about that, quite frankly. it will take us a few weeks to finish that up. but we have another nine or so weeks here, my crew of three. we have plenty of time for those kinds of things. if we get to it right now, we are trying to get them out of the door next week and continue operations up here and we are concentrating on the closest thing or first thing which would be heart how to complete hand over because that will be a short over and there is a lot, the u.s. os part of the station has grown a lot, and we want to

be as effective as possible. and hand over to him if we don't do it face-to-face up here. >> the science operations onboard are going full speed ahead. we are breaking records every week with the number of hours that -- crew-based hours of scientific research which is over and above that research that doesn't require a crew. if we have to unman a station, there will be science conducted on board, but not crew-based science. we are in full mode right now and running at a sprint pace conducting the scientific research. >> thanks very much. and i might just ask a follow-up with mike on the prospect of having three crew on the station for longer maybe you anticipated

a couple weeks ago. what kinds of demands with a larger station are you going to face with that prospect? >> mark, i don't have any concerns about that at all. ron and his crew and the crews that have come before us have left it in good shape, so there are no big things hanging out there that i consider to be an issue. when these guys head home, we are going to be busy and came here to be busy and used to it. we are completely use to living here and working here. ron, i have his cell phone number to say, wow, i never found out, where's this, those kind of things. we are ready to take over a i have no concerns at all. the care and feeding of the

station are is going to take a higher percentage of our time. that will be instead of three for which we are responsible and working at a good pace and no worries. >> that concludes questions. please stand by for a voice check from kennedy. >> how do you hear me? >> we hear you loud and clear and glad to talk to everybody at the kennedy space center. >> >> i'm from the associated press. couple of questions. number one, mike, are you still going in november? is that your latest plan? when is the new crew coming up?

and what do you both see is the weak links on the space station if it had to be temporarily abandoned? >> marsha, bunch of great questions. right now the current plans are on time for us to go home the middle of november. later than that it starts to get hard because of lighting and much later it gets hard because of the landing conditions in and the crew rotation is set up to avoid that. but, again, the plans are for us to head home in mid-november and the tentative plans are about to launch on november 2 to come up. but the investigation is still ongoing for what happened with the booster and the whole path

from here to launching humans. there are a number of steps along the way, finding the problem, fixing the problem, having one or two test launches of possibly a satellite using the same booster. there are a lot of things to stack up to make that happen. and i missed, what kind of things do you think we would need to do to prepare the space station to be unmanned for a period of time? we aren't tied in to those meetings. we have our work and the experts on the ground hash that out. but every module has a hatch on each side of that interface between the different modules and there are valves to allow cool ant water and air flow and things like that. we will be doing things like

closing the hatches and maybe ceiling the air flow and they don't need to be moving air around the station and if we had a small leak, it wuent be pressurized. it will be things along those lines. >> thank you for that. my second part of that question is what you both see as the weak links. a couple of things that would worry you that would have a tendency to break down with nobody there, that sort of thing. >> that's hard to say. i think the folks in the program office would be better suited to answer that, but it's things like the pump module that failed a year ago and required an extensive swapout. that one component takes out half of the cooling on the space

station which limits -- puts you in a precarious situation where you don't have the fault tolerance or redid you understand dance si. if the crew is here to take the action, it's no big deal to be done for a week or so as you get your plans together and take care of of the problem. it can become a bigger deal over a period of time as more things have the opportunity to stack up against you. so a short gap, not a big deal. but i have seen a few of the reports that you have written. as the shortgap turns into many months, the probability zarts to stack up and -- starts to stack up against you and could become significant with nobody to take action. >> good morning.

i'm from cbs radio news. for either or both of you, we are told the station is well supplied especially after the 135 flight. have you begun cutting back on anything or plans to cut back on anything in anticipation of stretching out those supplies for any period of time. >> no, peter. from a supply point of view. we are in good shape. we have a lot of water on board, lot of food on board, consumeables on board. so we are in good shape. so the normal consumption rate that we have been using all along, we are still using that. we haven't gotten to the point where we need to start conserving and try to what are the possibilities out there, because we have done that. that was one of the whole reasons we wanted to fly so much

because we wanted to be in a position because if something happened we would have everything on board that we needed and we did fly that mission and have all the supplies on board and we are in good shape. >> cbs here. just one quick one. all this talk of demanning the station has taken me back a little bit, it seems inson -- i realize you don't have an answer, how realistic is the demanning thing or do you realize that isn't going to happen? i'm trying to get your sense of it. thanks. >> hey, bill, you have been around this business longer than i have and you know that it's a

complicated thing, when you have a problem with a rocket that stops functioning in flight and shuts down, that's a big deal. so we aren't part of that investigation, but you know what's going on. that rocket has had hundreds of successful launches and you go in and look what's changed. the rocket has worked great. what has changed. it was a hardware. if those things don't pop out, we look at harder things and that gets harder to solve. in the weeks that we have or months, just a few months we have to solve it, it's my time to go home. possibility is there and we have a lot of details we have to work out before we get there. and that's why the teams on the

ground are pushing hard to come up with plans. again the one i think we are going to use or the shorthandover. but you have to start working ahead and say what if. >> peter king at cbs with one last one. we are in a tough political climate where everybody is counting every dime and every dollar and are you worried that leaving the station uncrewed might have the poll tissueance thinking about calling it quiets and saying we don't need to be spending this money? >> peter, you know, we can't answer that. however, you know, what i can say is that the money that has been spent on the international space station and i think history will prove this is the

best investment in our future that we have ever made. so the money that has been invested will be returned many, many times over, new material, new medicines, and improved life on earth and stepping stone to explore the rest of the solar system and this is an incredible link to doing that. so i think if we get to the point where we have to unman the space station, i hope that we have demonstrated at that point how valuable this is, this global asset is and i would hope there would be an uproar about keeping it manned and making sure we get that return on investment because if we aren't here to utilize what we have invested the money in, it is wasted. i think mike has some words -- i stand corrected.

>> station, this is houston. that concludes the event of the thank you. >> thank you, kennedy space center. i.s.s. will be resuming. >> thanks everybody for the great questions. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> starting tonight at 8:00, mitt romney outlines his jobs plan. and nancy pelosi and other democrats on their jobs plan and homeland security janet napolitano and former new york mayor rudy jewell and on 9/11.

tomorrow on "washington journal" --

>> earlier today, white house press secretary jay carney said president obama's jobs plan will focus on the short-term need to create jobs. president obama will address a joint session of congress laying out his plan. here is a portion of today's white house briefing. >> i have a short announcement and provide you with an update on the federal government's ongoing response to events affecting areas across the country. on sunday, the president surveyed damage in new jersey.

yesterday, d.h.s. napolitano toured damage in connecticut from hurricane hurricane irene. fema through its offices in atlanta, new york and texas is closely monitoring the remains of tropical depression lee as it moves over southeastern states and the major fires in texas at the refess of the texas governor. seven grants were approved by this administration for the efforts there. we have approved 52 fire management assist ant grants requested by the governor as well as major disaster declaration to respond to disaster requests. we will work with the officials as their efforts to contain these efforts continue. >> do you know what the amount is of these grants?

>> i have to get that for you? it's the proportion of the fire. >> speaker boehner and minority leader talked about infrastructure. should not be an all or nothing solution. do you see this as an important opening or are you dubious given the partisanship in the recent days? >> for quite some time, we hope and expect that members of congress, rank and file and leader will come back from their recess newly focused on the need to address the economy, to take measures that we can take together in a bipartisan way to grow the economy and create jobs and we welcome signs that that level of interest in bipartisan cooperation has increased. we certainly think, as i said

before, that we expect the members of congress, house and senate will herd in their districts and states, same thing that the president heard when he was in the midwest and previous trip as well, that there is a level of frustration with washington that is palpable and americans of all stripes whether registered democrats, republicans or independents, they are tired of gridlock and political posturing getting in the way of washington that can and should be done to help them and help the economy. gridlock and obstruction is not new. we have seen it for a long time. what was unique about what americans saw this summer was, it wasn't just fruss traiting but harmful and dangerous.

direct negative impact on the economy and consumer confidence and business confidence and while expectations for what washington can do are tempered with skepticism, americans should not have to expect that washington will harm the economy. >> has the white house been consulting with republican leaders in congress ahead of its speech to build support to feed this thing along or going to hear about any new ideas? >> i have had this question as well. the president has throughout this year and certainly throughout the spring and summer been in regular consultation with members of congress and leaders in both parties, in preparation for his jobs in growth package were wide-arranging both inside and outside the administration and the ideas the president collected helped inform him as

he made these decisions for this package. i'm sure the president will be consulting with leaders of congress going forward as he moves forward as he precepts his jobs in growth package by calling on them to act. it is a significant proposal. but it contains ideas that have historically garnered bipartisan support by the very members who will sit in the hall on thursday night. so he hopes that the imperative to help the economy to grow the economy to create jobs will trump political partisanship. >> >> new york police department has put the muslim community around new york under scrutiny using undercover officers to monitor. does the white house see this as

a best practice for combating extremism. >> i'm not aware of those reports. it sounds like it might be addressed to d.h.s. but i'm happy to take the question. >> the turbulence in markets is reflecting growing concern about the european crisis. what advice is the president giving to his european counterparts and is this going to be part of his speech given this turmoil could affect the u.s. economy in a very big way? >> i'll make two points. first, we are in regular consultation with our european counterparts, the president with his counterparts and secretary geithner with his. secretary geithner will be in paris this weekend, on fly. and those consultations are

ongoing. the european states are a difficult challenge but they have the ability and the will to meet their obligations and we continue to believe that. as for the effect of what's been happening on our economy, there is no question there is an effect. we have acknowledged that previously and it is important to continue to consult with and coordinate with our counterparts. the president, going to your question about his speech, believes the one thing we can do when we talk about our economy is control the things we can control. take action where we can take action, to grow the economy and create jobs. there is no doubt there have been events this year that are out of our control completely, like an earthquake and tsunami that have affected our economy, the arab spring that have affected oil prices and our

economy and the situation in europe. we have some role with your european counterparts but but feas not completely within our control. these things happen and we deal with them. we should take action where we can and the president feels strongly and we need to do things to grow the economy and create jobs. the package he'll put forward will absolutely be judged by independent economic analysts to, if passed, to have a direct, quick and positive impact on the economy and job creation. >> is the president confident how the european leaders are handling this crisis? >> we believe they need to handle this crisis and have the ability and the will. they have been grappling with it for a while now and we understand that it's clear they are working hard to address it and the president and secretary

geithner and others are in regular consultation with it. >> shifting top picks, the decision to give a speech to the joint session of congress, congress needs to pass some of these initiatives, some maybe by executive action. given that the views on how you grow growth at the moment are so different. the republicans criticize what they see as a keysnian and want a new look at regulation, can you talk about why the president wants to do this when, you know, the philosophical difference couldn't be greater? >> well, i'll go to ben's question to point out that there are areas that we though have and have enjoyed bipartisan support.

measures that we can take. one thing the president has spoken about is extending the payroll tax cut, a tax cut for millions and millions of americans, working americans, money that puts on average $1,000 back in the wallets of average american families across the country. the president wants to see it happen next year. and we believe that is -- should have bipartisan support. business and labor, for example. there are a number of measures that we believe have enjoyed bipartisan support, can, should and will enjoy bipartisan support this fall if people are support -- if members of congress are serious about trying to help the economy, which we believe is there number one obligation. obviously, we have serious differences. some of the measures that you

talked about, you can have a debate about some of the things that you discussed, tax reform and regulatory reform. the president is for both of those and has ideas about them and taken measures on regulation as you know. what is indisputeable is we need to do things that will have a direct impact in the short term to grow the economy and create jobs and the president will put forward proposals that will do just that. >> that is where the difference it. on the payroll tax, republicans are saying it wouldn't do the economy a whole lot of good to extend the tax cut temporarily. >> there is no question that that tax cut has a direct impact on job growth and economic growth and has had this year and would have if it were extend extended and other measures that

we will propose that have had bipartisan support in the past because they are judged by independent analysts to have an impact on the economy and jobs. let me be clear that the president will make it absolutely clear he will pay for these proposals. it is important and part of his commitment to deficit reduction and long-term debt. he was aggressive in pursuing that in pursuing that with john boehner, speaker of the house and will continue to push for deficit and debt reduction to make sure that the burden doesn't fall on one segment of society but that it's shared and he believes that's the best way as again a broad consensus agrees to tackle it. >> the president has talked

about -- has a lot in his speech and seems like infrastructure spending is going to be part of it. hundreds of billions of dollars of infrastructure spending in the stimulus bill and while that did not prompt the kind of economic recovery that the president would hope why would a new round have a different effect? >> i think your analysis -- hundreds of billions may be overstating the amount of infrastructure spending. but what a lot of people don't know, a third of the recovery, was tax cuts. and assistance to states and a different component. we'll get the number for you. but what is uncontested is that

those infrastructure projects that were funded by the recovery act were very well managed and came in on budget or under budget and led to the creation of many, many jobs but an outside independent analysts. i9 was over three million jobs cry ated or saved. if you are asking me did it fill the hole created by eight million jobs lost, the answer is no. that's how dire the situation was that we encountered when the president was sworn into office. what it definitely did was, together with the other initiatives that the president took in conjunction with congress is prevented from falling us into a great depression and began the slow, but steady road to recovery, which has led to more than two

million private sector jobs created in the last 18 months and economic growth rather than economic contraction shon. nobody is arguing that the growth we have seen is robust enough or job creation we have seen is enough. but even this year there have been a million private sector jobs created and the initiatives put forward by the president and taken up by congress have a lot to do that. >> there is a new poll that shows the record high of the american people of the president and and they are saying worst off now than when president obama took office. >> he is working every day to take the necessary measures to grow the economy and create jobs

and fully understands the anxiety that is out there. the frustration at the pace of growth. the frustration of the pace of job creation and he feels it is so urgent to take action now and not to simply say oh, we shouldn't do anything and let it be decided after an election. the american people don't deserve that. they deserve action now and that's why the president will call for action now. >> in january, president obama said, after the shooting of gabby giffords -- [inaudible]

>> how do the comments of the teams sters' president fill in? >> i understand that there is a right youal in washington that someone says something and links the association and then somehow you have to avow it or disavow it. the president wasn't was on stage. he didn't hear it. i don't have any comment beyond that. >> some of us covered the campaign and recall a time when somebody made some harsh comments about then senator obama at a mccain rally and the obama campaign was offended and expected an apology and senator mccain did so. >> mr. hoffa speaks for himself and the labor movement, afl-cio.

i speak for the president. what the president was glad to do yesterday was to present his views on the importance of working americans and on the importance of taking mshes to help working americans to create jobs and grow the economy. >> the republican candidates are the ones to pay attention to -- at the rally, >> i think i have said what they can say. >> is that the standard now? -- [inaudible]

>> producing 8 million jobs, what can this man do? >> every day, he can do what he can and focus on the things we can do, working with congress or independently as the administration, administratively, rather, to grow the economy and create jobs, this isn't something that is done in a day. it's work that will continue beyond thursday as we push nor congress to take action on this package and part of an overall package regarding the president's longer term view. and tackling our long-term deficit and debt problem. the answer is obviously the work does not get done in one day or

one night. this is a multi-step process that results in congress taking appropriate action to grow the economy and create jobs, action that if passed in its entirety would have significant impact immediately or within the year on economic growth and job creation. >> republicans are expressing frustration that this is being called bipartisan and aren't ks consulted in advance at all and democrats expressing frustration that legislation will be delivered to them and they think, we have plans of our own, why are we getting this from on high. >> look, when we say that the proposal the president will put forward have had -- are the kinds that have had bipartisan support in the past, we are speaking the truth and you will be able to judge when you see

whether that is the case. we aren't saying this is part of a bipartisan negotiation that has created this plan. in terms of consultations, you know, i wasn't aware when the republicans drew up h.r. 1, they invited democrats to write it with them or the ryan plan. what they do is put those plans forward and judged on the merits and as to whether they have bipartisan support or whether they are too bipartisan or too political. the president will put forward a proposal that is made up of component parts that has enjoyed bipartisan support in the past and will be paid for. >> and you are your relation with congress is in a reasonable place? >> the american people do not care whether or not we express

niceties. what the american people care about, congress, washington, in general, take action, take the kind of action that will improve the economic situation in the united states. >> how much would you characterize in this speech of new proposals that we haven't heard the president or the administration talk about? >> you will hear some new proposals that you have not heard us talk about or float. >> and turning to afghanistan, the president has received a recommendation from secretary panetta to reduce troop levels to 3,000. >> i think you mean iraq? >> issuing. thank you. >> no. and the process has -- as you know, we are operating under a status of forces agreement that was signed by the previous

administration to draw down our forces. we are in consultations with the iraqi government about what our relationship with iraq will look like going forward. we want a normal relationship with iraq going forward. we have said in the past that if the security component of that relationship if the iraqi government makes a request of us, we will consider it. that decision hasn't been made and we are operating under the existing agreements. >> those negotiations are under way. but the question is, has secretary panetta delivered recommendations to the president? >> this is contingent about what our relationship looks like with iraq and our relationship with the iraqi government. >> will it be the president's

decision how many troops to leave in iraq? >> the president has made abundantly clear for a long time now that he will end and has ended our efforts in iraq, our combat efforts responsibly. we have been operating on a timetable that has withdrawn over 100,000 u.s. forces since he took office in a way that has been incredibly careful and responsible and has allowed the iraqis to further buildup their security forces and improve their capacities. and the -- what our relationship looks like going forward with iraq will depend upon our negotiations with the iraqi government. >> and concerns about how much it costs? >> we live in a world where resources aren't infin it and that's the case with every

consideration we make. but the answer is, we will make decision on what is best for the united states and best for having the most effective relationship with iraq going forward. >> in addition to the poll jake cited, the recent poll found that the president's approval rating is at an all-time low. how concerned is the president about these numbers? >> i have spent quite a bit of time with the president this week, last week. this does not get raised. the president is focused on the measures he can take as president of the united states either administratively or working with congress legislatively to address the urgent need to grow our economy and grow our jobs, economic growth is not fast enough and job creation is not substantial enough. i think that this is one of

those cases where gr policy makes good politics. what he is focused on is doing what the american people are demanding in washington do, which is listen to them and not spend a lot of time trying to score political points and winning ideological battles on the fringes. what americans saw to their horror was that in the name of i had logical purity, almost grout the economy to its knees for no other reason than to try and prove an ideological political point. and that was unacceptable and even though it didn't happen and even though that result was averted, the impact was felt on confidence among consumers and among businesses and that's just not ok. >> shouldn't there be some concern given the fact that these numbers show that the

majority of americans have lost faith? >> if you look at your poll and other polls make it clear that they have a high reservoir of skepticism towards washington in general and that has been exacerbated by what they witnessed this summer, where the opportunity to do something, sweeping, bold and bipartisan was squandered because there wasn't the political will to make it happen. and that is what you are seeing registered in your polls where i think everyone associated with washington is being viewed quite dimly right now. >> we have spoken with someone who said these ideas that were put forth are views that have been talked about before. not a lot of confidence that this speech will have new ideas.

given we are so close to the speech, tell us what percentage of this plan --? >> what is new to some is not new to others. there is a limited amount of universe. economists will be clear with you and talk about the things we can do. in washington to effect growth and job creation in a positive way. in the basket areas, there are new ideas and new proposals that you will hear. i don't have a percentage for you because it depends on how broadly you read up on it. and i would make the point that just because you heard it somewhere out in washington, doesn't mean you heard it from us. and the president has consulted widely and listened to ideas from economists inside and outside the administration and considered a rass array of ideas and will put forward his

proposal, a collection of ideas that he thinks will have the most effective impact on the economy and jobs. >> 72% of americans believe that the economy hasn't hit rock bottom yet. what would you say to those people? >> this president is doing everything he can to grow the economy and grow our jobs and improve the economic situation and will call on congress to join him in doing that and suggest that not doing it, not acting will be highly unresponsive to what the american people are demanding. >> i want to ask you about the decision last week -- is that a product of of a debate in the white house or was there a fair amount of consensus that this is the right thing to do? >> i'm not going to get into an

internal process. he laid out the decision in a statement and you heard from others who explained it in more detail. so, i wouldn't say it was was the normal process internally. >> normal? >> normal. >> what does that mean? [laughter] >> i wouldn't say -- i would just say it was -- obviously, these processes are -- decisions are discussed and the president made the decision. he made out his reasoning in a statement that we put out. and i think it's pretty clear. >> normally, the president comments on the monthly jobs numbers. he didn't do that this time. is there any reason why? >> there have been occasions when i worked with the vice president and the vice president commented and we have had traditionally economic advisers, but we don't have one that is

confirmed at the moment. the director went out. no particular reason. the president is focused on. a lot of people have asked how does that change his jobs proposal. the jobs numbers is another indication is why the president is going to ask congress on thursday. it is completely consistent with his estimation that we need to take action to get the economy growing again and to get more jobs created. >> does the white house know the labor da rally would be as partisan an event as it turned out to be? >> the president enjoyed the opportunity to speak to the audience there to honor working men and women in this country and to make clear what he

believes is the urgent need to take action. which is what he will be discussing thursday evening in congress. again, i wasn't there. the president was invited and he came and spoke and he was grateful to have the opportunity to deliver his messages. >> what is your answer to the senator who used an op ed to call on the administration to send the free trade agreements to congress? >> as you know and as i have said in the past, we look forward to submitting the free trade agreements to congress. we need to nail detain a bicameral agreement to move forward and with t.a.a., trade ajudgment assistance in a timely fashion. there has been progress made in the senate and we hope progress will be continued to be made and move forward.

t.a.a. is something that has enjoyed wide bipartisan support in the past and we believe it should this time as well. >> unions extracting concessions from the president? >> there has been been broud bipartisan support. support among senior members in the house, republican members in the house for it and we believe there can and will be support for it moving forward. >> to follow up on that, congressional leaders have committed to taking those up. so why not -- >> we are hopeful that we will reach a bipartisan, bicameral agreement on the sequencing and process which these will be taken up and hopefully we will see passage of the free trade agreements and enjoy the benefits that will come from that. >> the administration wants it

as one package. >> i'm not going to negotiate how it works from here. you can talk to folks on the hill about that. but an agreement can be reached and should be reached and that we can move forward. >> would you send that up on thursday? >> i don't have a timing announcement to make on that. >> the european markets, did the president get any briefings today on the european markets? >> we have been in meetings all day and i'm sure he did and i wasn't present for that particular one. >> you said he has been in consultation with his counterparts in europe, has he called merkel? >> not that i'm aware of. i'm sure he spoke with chancellor merkel over the weekend but that was a personal call expressing condolences over the loss of her father.

>> does the president have any comments on the g-7. >> i steer you to the treasury department. >> there are there were several leaders with him on the plain -- plane, labor ladiers. can you tell us what they said to him? >> i can't. and the president probably discussed his commitment to helping working americans and his commitment to growing the economy and creating jobs and i'm sure that has been his focus pretty intensely of late and that was the nature of the country. i traveled sunday, not monday so i don't know. >> jay, the palestinian authority president abass, said he planned to go ahead to get recognition as a state at the

u.n. this month and the american officials have said they will veto. given that the palestinians are going to press on with this, does the administration have a plan b to deal with the recognition of the palestinian authority? >> as you know, we do not believe that this will bring the palestinians, if this action were taken or this approach will follow through, that it would have -- bring the palestinians any closer to statehood. things have to be negotiated directly by both parties and we encourage both sides to come back together and direct negotiations. there is no substitute for syria and substancetive negotiation negotiations. and you aren't going to achieve

statehood through this means and we think -- we have made our opinion on that very clear. >> is the president worried given all the work he has put in to responding to the arab spring, having the veto, people seeking recognition, sends a bad signal to other arabs who aspire for freedom? >> there are speculations what actions we'll take and we continue to believe this is not the right course of action. that it's not productive or helpful and will not bring the palestinians any closer to statehood. >> the speech that the president is giving is a jobs speech not a deficit-debt speech. >> that is correct. he will make clear that the package he will put forward will be paid for, that he -- pay for them within the package and put

it within the context of his broader vision for economic growth and making america competitive in the 21st century. and part of that will be the need to aggressively deal with our deficits and long-term debt. when other folks were talking about scaling back, the president pushed hard for a substantial deficit and debt reduction package with the speaker of the house this summer. he continues to believe that we need to take on those issues, do it in a balanced way, do it in a way that will set us on a path for long-term deficit reduction, long-term stability in the relationship between our debt and g.d.p. and that will have long-term positive effects on our economy. but to go back to your question, yes, this will be primarilyly

focused on the short-term need to take measures to grow the economy and create jobs, which is what the current economic situation calls for and what the american people want to see happen and the president believes that the initiatives he will put forward will have bipartisan support. >> does he intend to come forward with a specific plan to submit to the supercommittee and if so -- >> the president will provide the superki, congress in general, with his specific ideas for the actions they should take to achief significant debt reduction and significant long-term debt control. and that commitment still stands and will come in relatively short order. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> several questions in today's white house briefing about president obama's jobs plans president obama's jobs plans speech and scheduled to give