then president obama in richmond, virginia. after that, congressional reaction to the president's doppler ". -- the president's punjab proposal. and now, the c-span series "the contenders." >> this is a portrait of kentucky's henry clay, known to us from our history books as the great compromiser. during his 49-year political career, he served as secretary of state, speaker of the house, and as a u.s. senator. he was a contender, making five presidential bids, including 1832 against andrew jackson and 1844, when he ran against james k. polk. tonight we are on location in ashland, henry clay's home in lexington, ky. for the next nine minutes, we'll explore the life and legacy of

this man, unsuccessful in his long quest for the white house, yet having an outside influence on american history. we are in henry clay's parlor right now. let me introduce you to jim carter, state historian. why henry clay -- why is he relevant to americans living in our time? >> first of all, his famous caveat, i would rather be right than be president, still speaks to us across whatever we are doing, whether we in politics or something else. he also said that politicians need to remember their country and sacrifice for their country. that is still something we need to remember as well. the man known as the great compromiser, the man that forced these compromises that not only kept the country together but were constructed.

as well as all the things he did in his life, a clarion call over and over to say to us again and again that we can do a lot of things if we just try like the self-made man, henry clay, did. >> a very complex and interesting time of american history. let's start with some basics about his biography. where and when was he born, and how did he get to kentucky? >> he was born 1777, the seventh child. his mother remarried to a younger man. clay like to think of himself as a self-made man, working himself to the bone, coming up from the ranks from a very poor family. in essence, they came from a fairly wealthy family. they had slaves. they were not that bad off. from there he went on -- his

family basically came to kentucky, leaving him back in virginia when he was 14 years old to be on his own. as a young lawyer, he married well. this estate we are in today, an example of what he did with his start and with his promise, and he made himself into someone all americans can admire. he married lucretia clay. she was from the heart family, an early family of kentucky. mary into that family gave him entry into a lot of political circles that would have been denied him. that basically had the connections, and he used those connections to move forward.

he felt he could open the door himself to his own abilities. >> if henry clay was here today fruit time travel, what would he look like? what would he sound like? >> no one could sit down with henry clay and leave without liking him. he was not a handsome man. there were always comments about his large mouth. he was a man who liked the ladies, as they said. someone at the time said he could kiss someone with one side of his mouth while he was resting the other side of his mouth. as soon as he opened his mouth, great oratory came out. a person of the opposite party onetime came to henry clay's home. it was a room filled with people. he said, wouldn't you like to meet the famous mr. clay? this democrat said no, sir, i do

not choose to suggest myself to that. he knew that he had that personality, that charisma, the hr, that anyone who would medium would like him. >> was this just a genetic gift, or did he -- where did he get this from? >> he worked at it. he had heard patrick henry's be back in virginia and he was amazed at by the force of his oratory. he wanted to be like that. he talked about giving speeches to the cows in the field. he came to kentucky as a lawyer. you had to convict the jury through the force of your words. he developed it. he was almost a self-made or richer, too, because it was something he could turn in a minute and speak on the issues.

it was impossible to challenge him in a debate because he would come up with all the facts and figures and when the argument. that is the kind of man that clay was. had he been able to appear on television, he could have really been a very effective politician. of course at that time, you did not campaign for president. there was no radio. >> when we have talked with historians and people here in ashland about him, they keep telling us that he was the equivalent of a rock star in his time. everybody in the country knew him. a country without mass communication -- how was it possible for everybody to know who henry clay was? >> politics was the sports at that time. it was the game that everybody

followed. there was not any musical thing. the politics and the oratory, and everybody wanted to follow that as closely as they could. oratory and speeches of clay, young girls in school would write these down and practice it over and over again. he was like a rock star. it would be followed by adoring people. there is an example of 100,000 people turning out to hear him speak at one time in dayton, ohio. he had a steamboat named for him. he was a man that people like to see, to savor the excellence of henry clay. >> politicians still talk about henry clay today. let's listen to mitch mcconnell referencing henry clay.

>> let me see if we can back up a little bit. talk about his first foray into public life. he was a very successful lawyer here. did he always aspired to be a public person, and if so, how did he get into it? >> he started out like a lot of people did as a legislator on the state level. his ability showed itself very quickly. almost immediately they appointed him to fulfill a united states senate post, even before he was old enough. he served as a senator at the age of 29. that early, people recognized his abilities and his strength. of course the first day he steps

foot on the floor of the united states house of representatives, he is elected speaker of the house. >> has that ever happened since? >> it has happen one other time, during the civil war. here is a man at age 34 who is elected speaker on the first ballot. the impression he made on people very quickly and very early in his life. >> what were his politics? what were the political parties of the day? >> he would have followed the ideas of thomas jefferson and james madison, the founders of the revolution and the founders of the republic. later on he became the father of the whig party. he believed in the american system and all the things that entails, terps, -- tariffs.

he forced the party around him. he was in opposition to anti- tax and. within six years after its founding, it won the presidency. by the time he died, the whig party almost died with him. >> we are going to focus on 14 men who made bids for the white house and unsuccessful in the effort, but each of these people profiled had an outside effect on our country. our goal with this is really to talk about american history and american politics and to make the point that you don't always have to be successful to run for president to have an effect on the country. you have any sense of what kind of president he would have been? >> if the opposition party was

in control of the congress, it might have been a problem. to the opposition, henry clay was the devil on earth. he stood for everything that the democratic party did not stand for, and he would have faced some real trouble. i think had he been with a party in power with him, he would have achieved a great deal. he had a program, a vision, he had the force of will to achieve that vision. i think those things had all come together, had he had a successful presidency and party behind him in the white house, but he never had that opportunity. >> lesson it -- let's listen into center mitch mcconnell. >> henry clay was the great statesmen that my home state ever produced. he served the people as speaker of the kentucky house of

representatives, speaker of the u.s. house of representatives, secretary of state under president john quincy adams, and of course as one of the greatest centers to ever walk through the capital. he was also honored to receive his party's nomination for president three times, in 1824, 1832, and 1844. the essence of legislating in the senate as 100 viewpoints are brought together to create one wall is compromised. in a clay became known as the great compromiser by forging a compromise that would keep his precious union together. clay did not compromise in the sense of forsaking his principles. rather, his skill was to bring together disparate ideas and forge consensus among his colleagues. that is a skill we could

certainly use more of now. >> during the great debates we just went through this summer over the debt ceiling and the budget, there was so much talk about compromise in washington, whether or not it is a lost art. talk to us in that context about henry clay as the great compromiser and what sort of skills he brought to bear their. >> if he wanted something to happen, he would work very hard to make it happen. he would sit down with people and find out what they wanted. he would go to the other side and see what they want. he would try to find some common ground in the middle. as they say about compromiser, there is a sign that said blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall catch from both sides. it hurt clay politically, but at the same time he thought he had to do this because the nation

required it. the nation did not compromise on these issues, it would tear itself apart. so clay had an urgency behind everything he did. he actually compromise some of his principles for the sake of the union. he gave up his beloved tariff issues for the sake of keeping the union together and not having sections break off and fight a war against andrew jackson. at the same time, the greater thing he would not compromise on was the union. he said if anyone wants to know the key to my heart, the union is the key to my heart. that was the thing he would never compromise on. >> we are talking about echoes of today, the american system which is something he promoted as a major components which includes terps, spending the money from the terrace on building american infrastructure, and also a big

debate on an international bank. we are still assessing how effective these things are in today's economy. what was the country like then, and what was the level of debate over issues such as the tariff and the national bank? >> they were still issues when henry clay camera out and they are still issues today. do we have a strong central government or a strong state government? he thought the national government should do things for the nation. he spoke out on that and people spoke against him for that. it heard him and a lot of ways, politically as well. he thought these internal improvements were necessary to tie the country together. his comment at one time was, i know no north, no self, no east, no west. to him it was un cundiff -- one country, indivisible.

it did not say a terrorist had to be there all the time. a t --arriff said to be there all the time. at the time the united states was being formed, hard money was the only legal currency. clay wanted to make a central bank that we really would not have until the federal reserve system was set up in the 20th century and that became very controversial as well. he said all this was necessary for the good of the nation. >> it replaced sound like a pretty good guy, but he said he had a lot of enemies. it was also known to have some vices. what were his vices? >> is vice this became more prominent the longer he lived as far as the political scene went. in his youth, he was known as a

person who liked to gamble. he could sit across from the british and play poker with them and see how much they would block or call his bluff. he thought it was a tool in some ways. he would lose huge amounts of money one night and went back the next night. he did when a lot, but he liked the spirit of gambling. as he got older, he did not do that as much. he preferred wine, but he never really got drunk, but he enjoyed it. all those things for used against him by the moral side of america with all that he was a womanizer, a blasphemer, a do list, a -- duelist, and a

drinker. those things would be used against him over and over again. >> he died in 1852, so his career spans the first half of that 19th century in america, and also sectionalism and the fight over slavery. we will be opening up our phone lines for your participation. we will give you the phone numbers now. we welcome your questions or comments, your input into the spirit of american history.

we want to also listened to the views of kentucky's junior center, rand paul, about henry clay. >> in replace life is at best a mixed message. this compromises were over slavery. one could argue that he rose above sectional strife to keep the union together, to preserve the union, but one could also argue that he was morally wrong and that his decisions on slavery, to extend slavery, were decisions that may have ultimately invited the war that came. that is compromises meant that during the 50 years of his legislative career, he not only accepted slavery but accepted the slave trade. in the name of compromise, henry clay was by most accounts not a cruel master, but he was a master nonetheless of 48 slaves, most of which he did not free during his lifetime and some he only freed belatedly, 28

years after his death. he supported the duty to slave law throughout his career. he compromised on the extension of slavery. when he was the speaker of the house, there was a vote on extending slavery into arkansas. the vote was[applause] -- the vote was 88-88. william lloyd garrison toiled at a small abolitionist press for 30 years, refusing to compromise send the's desire to slaves back to africa. garrison was beaten, chased by mobs, and imprisoned for his principled stand. frederick douglass traveled the country at a time it is at the time. with a free black man, but he traveled at great personal risk throughout the countryside and

prove that he was the living, breathing example that intellect and leadership could come from a recently freed slaves. >> we are back with another guest of like to introduce. he is a history professor at the university of louisville. welcome to our discussion of henry clay. before we get into the area where you spent a lot of your scholarship, which is slavery in that time, talk to meet in a general sense about your impressions of henry clay. what are your views of this man? >> i take the view of him as a rock star. he is a lightning rod. he seems to be able to get people fired up, either for or against him. he has the ability to inspire, and even on the abolitionist issues, he takes more heat than

senators who were actually more -- john c. calhoun, for instance. henry clay is more talk about, written about, focused upon that some of the more prominent political figures. >> we spent time talking about his basics and have not really delve into his position about slavery. explain to us what his philosophical and political positions were about slavery. >> philosophically he was against the idea of slavery. for his time, he would of been considered extremely liberal and he was touted as a liberal. he did not believe in slavery but also did not think americans could survive in america as citizens -- african-americans could not survive as citizens. it became his platform that he stuck to throughout his presidency -- throughout his

political career. he never did deny the fact that he thought african-americans should have their freedom. he just was not willing to risk the political damage anti- slavery could do to his political career and to the country. >> he was a slave holder and that caused him great grief all his life. had he taken one side or the other, he might have been much better off as a politician, as abraham lincoln in the north did, and got elected with all the northern boats but no southern votes. a clay done that and free his slaves -- >> and the fact that he was not willing to do it and stuck to his emancipation ideas, despite the criticism, that says a lot. >> what we know about the number

of slaves he held here and how he treated them? >> he was recorded at the height of having 35. when he died, he still was holding slaves. he emancipated some, the most famous case in charlotte, who was his servant in washington, who does not want to return to kentucky when he came back, and she takes him to court and loses. he also gets credit for freeing charles and some of the other slaves here on the estate, but he buys slaves, too. he spends time at the markets here in lexington, purchasing slaves, and is known for the quality of slaves that he purchases. again, he is one of those people with a dual nature. >> people used to talk about

slavery in kentucky being a the mildest. someone said they heard the flash on the back and heard the screams of the slaves, and that was the death knell of liberty. that is the part of clay that he could never quite pick up on as much as the other parts of his life. >> i read that some famous american names around the table included andrew jackson, his nemesis, daniel webster, james monroe, francis scott key -- how popular west the american movement in this country? >> it was extremely popular. he gets federal funding to buy the land. he promotes the idea of

resettling african-americans in haiti and canada. he is known for this. he becomes a lightning rod in a free black community in the north, because this is what causes them to unite against henry clay, in the sense of why should we have to believe the -- why should we have to leave the united states? >> liberia was a death trap, and the people in america had been slaves, their forefathers had been here a lot longer than a lot of the white owners, so they were more american in a sense >> no connections to after a whatsoever, and the fact that clay was trying to remove primarily free blacks from the country, not slaves. that was another controversial point. >> i am going to introduce a third person to our discussion.

haslett is open for tours and interpret saliva of henry clay. we have a special guest, 80 malone, the director of store operations here. that schedule little bit of a sense of place. ashland today is and what part of lexington? >> we were about a mile and half from downtown and about a mile and half from new circle road. we are on the southeast edge of town in a beautiful residential area of lexington. >> how many acres does the house have today, and how many did henry clay have at his zenith? >> today we sit on about 17 acres here at ashland. we have a contract for the first 125 acres that in reply purchased. >> we should learn a little bit more about his family before we go on tour here as well.

he and his wife had how many children? >> they had 11 children. however, they did not all live here at the same time. there was a lot of tragedy in the family. all six of henry and lucretius daughters would die. only two made it into adulthood. there was a fair bit of tragedy here. >> the house interprets henry clay and what time of his life? >> it interprets henry clay's throughout his life. it goes until his death in 1852. we talk about the span of his life and his political career. >> what we are going to see now is what visitors would see as they tour the first floor of the estate. take us on a bit of the tour, if you would. >> we are in the foyer right now, where the clay family would

have welcomed their guests. they established a long legacy of welcoming guests here at ashland. we have next to the drawing room, where the family entertained the guests. many of their important guest would have come to this room. it was the most formal room in the house. we also have the dining room, where you can see lucretia's ice cream service that on the table. it was a gift purchased in france, and lucretia was particularly known for her strawberry ice cream. i would like to take the next into the study. in the original house, this room was used by henry clay like a home office for his three careers. he of course was a former, a lawyer, and a statesman. i would like to draw your attention to his portfolio and

document box. currently we have the portfolio on loan to us from the supreme court. henry clay would have used these items when he went to washington d.c. as a farmer, it believed in breeding the best to the rest bge the best to the best. winners next, we have the library. henry clay began his legal career in 1777. this was issued to him and 1797 in virginia. he would turn to his legal career throughout his life as a source of revenue. his legal career and his great oratory helped define who he was. >> we will be back with you

throughout the program. you will be available to answer some of your questions and take us on a tour through some other places of the house. avery malone, thank you very much for this in view of ashland. who are some of the famous people he may have posted here? >> william henry harrison met with clay here. martin van buren came here two years before they thought they would be running against each other in 1844. the question is -- did they talk about trying to make the issue go away of the annexation of texas? did they meet in rooms like this and talk over that? we do not know. a lot of famous people have been to this area. all of those people wanted to see henry clay. they wanted to come to lexington, the cultural center of the west and the political

center of the west with henry clay here. >> we will take our first of your phone call from brian in springfield, ill.. >> i want to thank c-span for this series. it is a great idea. i wanted to ask the panel in about 1824 and the corrupt bargain charge against henry clay when he backed john quincy adams and accepted the secretary of state position. is that the reason we are referring to henry clay as a contender instead of president? >> the 1824 election. >> that was used against henry clay and the rest of his life. he made major political mistakes. there were four people and that race and the constitution said the three top vote getters would go to the assembly.

he was fourth on that list. if he was speaker at the time, he would be able to use his vast popularity to campaign in the house of representatives. he did not do it. he became the president maker, not the president. he said he wanted to favor john quincy adams for president. adams had the same viewpoints. clay always feared the napoleons of the world. they would use some pretext to take over and become a dictator. clay went to washington knowing he was going to support atoms. -- adams. adams did not carry but nine states. clay made the big mistake -- he accepted the offer of the secretary of state position from john quincy adams. that was a stepping stone to

presidency. half of the people said he should not do it, and half of them said he should. it was used against him as a corrupt bargain. >> andrew jackson was his great nemesis. what was jackson's position on slavery? >> much more cost file than one of the first presidents. he marched on the floor to clear out what he considered a threat from florida. one of his major campaigns into florida was the issue of free blacks with british support along with native americans who work rating into american territory, taking slaves out of the united states. he was very hot style toward any idea of freedom -- very hostile toward any idea of freedom. >> our next call is from scott from boston. >> i went to high school in

eastpor, maine. very close to canada. we all know that henry clay had insisted that the island had been taken by the british after the war of 1812. he insisted that the island to be returned to the united states. even john quincy adams was willing to let canada have the island. i wonder if any of the historians know why he was so adamant on the return of musa island in east port -- moose island in east port. >> he took the strongest position of all the american delegates. adams was afraid they would not

get a treaty if they took this position. clay try to get everything he could. i am not sure on moose island. >> we will get started live on clay's antagonism toward the british. what can you tell us on this point? >> he thought the british were still trying to hold on, punish america with the war of 1812. he definitely wanted a war with england. he felt america, despite the fact that we had a very small army and navy, could still beat england. i do not know if that was pride or ego, but it was clay. i often wonder if it had something to do with the british asking african americans to fight against americans during the war of 1812. that could have been a part of it. >> when he was a young man,

apparently his daughter's grave had just been dug, there was a story that british soldiers came into the household to raid the household and they thrust their swords into the freshly dug grave thinking there would be good hidden there. he had an antipathy toward the british very early. when he got to britain after the peace treaty had been signed, he stayed over there for several months and met all the british people. he came back with a different view of the british. he still feared them and thought they were trying to bully america, but he was associated with royalty so much, a little may have rubbed off on him. >> let's talk about the 1832 election. interjection -- he face off against andrew jackson for the presidency. >> it was an election henry clay could not win.

andrew jackson was still popular. the thing that makes historians of step with an jackson, like his indian policies, his policies toward african americans, those are positives in his era. in the south and particularly. clay also face the fact that there was a third party out there. that was the party known as the anti-masonic party. the anti-masonic party thought slavery should be done with. both jackson and clay were masons. jackson was popular and the bank issue come up where clay favored a recharger of the national bank of america. jackson vetoed it.

clay thought it would be a popular issue that people would go to him and say this was the right thing to do. he did not realize that jackson's a veto message was a great political message. against this corporate monopoly, this blight -- this bank. clay could not win on this issue. he got 49 electoral votes, jackson got 219. >> c-span has a web site for this series. we have details about the losing presidential elections at c- span.org/the contenders. let's return to avery malone. >> we are in the bedroom right now and you can see the bed behind me. it is henry clay's 1830's bed. we even have a letter where he talks about how comfortable this

bed was and it did not even have a bed bugs. we even have his duelling pistols purchased in 1799. later, they were altered a bit. henry was in two pools, one with humphrey marshall and one with john randolph. the duel with john randolph takes back -- takes us back to when he was speaker of the house. he was chosen as speaker of the house because they thought he could meet john randolph on the floor or on the field. john randolph compared henry clay to a character in the novel tom jones and called him a card cheat on the senate floor. clay defended himself and thought no man would have to endure this insult to his honor. he challenged ran off to a duel. randolph was a great shot and clay was not.

randolph decided he did not want to deprive lucretia or the nation of henry clay and decided to shoot at the ground. nobody was seriously injured in either of his tools. >> was part of american political life? >> duelling goes back to the 1860's. >> henry clay knew he was not a great shot. why did he get involved in it? >> it was the whole issue of honor. clay had a great sense of honor. sometimes you had to defend it. sometimes you defended through newspaper stories, but sometimes they got so bad that the only way to defend it was to challenge someone. he twice went to the dueling grounds. randolph was particularly -- >> this was randolph of roanoke, right? >> yes. he had a lot of great quotes of

henry clay. he said that henry clay was like a rotten apple in the moonlight. he both shines and sphinx. -- stinks. he admired clay because clay had the ability to do things. as a dying man, he wanted to come to the floor of the senate to listen to clay's magnificent voice one more time. >> our next phone call is from david in san francisco. >> one quick comment -- anyone who thinks that today's politics is overly divided should really take a look at the political divisions of the jacksonian era. the question is this -- do you find it a bit ironic that the republican party, which was formed out of the whig party,

has evolved from a party founded by henry clay on the basis of public works and federal investment and local projects, into one that opposes all of that, particularly with mitch mcconnell's comments. >> basically, the whig party evolved into the republican party. abraham lincoln was a republican himself. in modern days, there were probably aspects of both of those. a lot of the simple fractions of the whig party, some business oriented sections, come from the whig party. in a sense, he lives on in both parties. >> comments on that question? >> you mentioned the 1830's. you have the rise of the anti-

slavery society who becomes a form. he does develop some democratic ideals. he is definitely against the idea in congress, which many southerners and northerners wanted for the sake of freedom. he overrules that idea. even though he does not support it, he wants it heard. >> before we get too far into the 1830's, we have not spent time on one of the three great compromises he is known for. the missouri compromise. will you talk about the politics around that? >> misery wanted to come into the union in 1820. the question is -- would it be a slave state or not? another state was to come in at the same time, so they made one slave and one free.

the whole question of slavery is, it has always been there, smoldering like a fire. the debates were -- where was slavery and would it go on? would there be attempts to limit it completely? clay was not the man that made the first compromise. a lot of the ideas were here, but a lot of other people -- it was not really his compromise. it seemed like a dud. free blacks would not be able to go into misery according to the constitution. this is the compromise that clay made. he worked out a very convoluted answer to that that satisfied everybody, and at the same time,

it ended the crisis. to clay, slavery is a real thorn in his side. he could never come up with a solution on that. if it is a wound, it was a self- inflicted wound, because he was a slave owner. >> he starts out with people believing he is an emancipationist. over time, he is hated by both the north and south. it is a no-win situation for him. >> we are halfway through our discussion on henry clay, who ran through the white house for most of his political career. five times in total, three times as his party's nominee, and always unsuccessful. we are going to take a short break and be back at ashland, his home in lexington, kentucky, to talk more. >> "the contenders," and our

look at henry clay, continues in a moment. "the contenders" features people ran for president and lost. in our series continues next week with james g. blaine. it will -- it airs live every friday night at 8:00 eastern. 02 c-span got bored -- got to cspan.org to find portions of the speeches. we now return to kentucky and our discussion on the life of henry clay. >> welcome back to ashland, the home of henry clay in lexington, ky. a place that has been preserved

and is open for tours. people spend their professional lives who curate this place of that you will be inspired to visit them after our discussion tonight about henry clay. let me reintroduce you to our guests. alicestyne turely is a professor at the university of louisville. tell us about that. >> we were colleagues at georgetown college, where i teach history right now. they are very close. >> when your colleagues, did to debate a lot? >> we did. it is hard to the day someone like james cotter. he is definitely a scholar on kentucky history. i try to keep up. >> 25 years as state historian. what does that job entail?

>> it is a self-defined job. it involves writing the history of the state. i try to do that. i tried to help those who write about history, offering advice and suggestions. it also entails going around and giving talks and things like that to tell the story of the state and the people who live here. >> avery malone is with us. she is the director of toure operations here at ashland. tell us about how many people come to this place every year and how it is financed. >> it varies by season how many people you will find here. the tourists come when the leaves change, at christmas, and throughout the summer. we have somewhere around 15,000 per year come to see us. we are financed through a variety of methods and means. we are very fortunate to have all of our visitors and all the

friends of ashland who donate to keep us open and to tell the public about henry clay and the compromise. >> what year did this open for tours? >> we opened in 1954 taurus. this was only two years after henry clay's great granddaughter died. she started the henry clay memorial foundation. her son was here until 1959, so we were only open downstairs. after he moved out, we moved throughout the house. >> let's take another question from shall be in california. >> i am also a great-grandson of a mr. laue , who had helped with the and the sibilate -- and with the anti-slavery movement.

he had a hardware store and when slaves would come into town and they needed to be housed, his secret and magical phrase was, "we have some two-penny nails in." my grandmother knew there was some kind of magical significance to that. when she was given a horse, she named the horse two-penny nails. i think that shows what a great country this is. we are lucky to have c-span. >> we do need your question. >> i saw masonry emblems on the buildings in the beautiful city of laval, ky. my question is -- could you tell us what association henry clay may have had with that city?

>> his son, henry clay jr., lived in lexington. clay jr. used some of his life money to buy a lot of property. he became quite well the as a young man. that son was killed in the mexican war. clay would visit their and help his son. it was a rival of lexington, though. will bill eclipsed their population in the 1830's for the first time. lexington was a backwater. his connection with lowell was a mixed one -- louisville was a mixed one.

>> let's go to willie in ohio. >> i would like to note -- any connection, at any association, i have always been under the impression former heavyweight champion cassius clay always said that was his slave name. any association at all? >> certainly the name stands out for americans because he was considered an abolitionist in lexington and ran an anti- slavery newspaper. my understanding -- i do not think there was a real family connection with cassius clay. >> there was a story for the new yorker once that i did some research for -- the man known as mohammad ali was originally known as cassius clay and was named for the abolitionist leader.

the family he came from was from western kentucky. he took the name because cassius clay was an abolitionist or anti-slavery men. >> the election of 1840, henry clay tries for his whig party nomination. he was succeeded in that quest by whom? >> and william henry harrison. >> and harrison offered clay the vice presidency? >> i am not sure about that. it would have been rotten. >> why did he offer him his cabinet? >> he had some positions in indiana and other places and had some history of accomplishments. not a great deal.

clay was expecting to get the presidency. it was a time when the whig party thought it would win. we policies look like they would be needed to get out of the depression. they had a great shot of beating the incumbent, martin van buren. this is one of the examples where henry clay is not a good politician. he had been in congress, but was not a good manager. he trusted his own instincts too much. he did not take the advice of other people. they got a rule changed in the condition that clay, who had the majority of the vote, now said they would vote by delegation. however the state voted, the whole state voted for that person. harrison realize that clay was very important in the whig party. he wanted to make peace, not have clay on the opposite side.

clay basically said he would rather stay where he is because he thinks there are more important things to do there and he does not want to be associated with harrison. >> our next caller is bill in lexington, ky. >> i am calling from lexington. i am absolutely -- i am actually a teacher at henry clay high school, right up the street. i would like to ask whether the panelists think henry clay's reputation as a compromise are hurt his chances of being president and whether or not his losses as president, a three- time loser, actually made it possible for him to have a greater impact and a more positive one on the country through a long legislative career? >> i am going to ask all three of our guests to answer that question. let's start with you, alicestyne turely. >> it definitely does hurt him.

he is unwilling to change his position on taxes, so that upsets the southerners. his stand on anti-slavery upsets new england and the northerners. he is trying to straddle the fence and i think it hurts him more than help them. >> avery malone, the question. did his years as a compromise or ultimately hurt him in his quest for the presidency? >> i am sure that i know that being a compromiser is not popular during the present time when, it -- when someone is taking a position of power. usually, you want someone to take a strong stance. >> clay was not consistent all of his life. he was one time opposed and later on he favored. he changed different positions overtime.

his enemies used that against him and said he was not consistent. he would compromise and as long as he was getting votes. he was willing to make a change and say he had been wrong. that sometimes would cost politicians. it cost him. >> we had an earlier caller reference the treaty. we talked about henry clay and the british. what was the treaty of all against? >> it ended the war of 1812, which americans were not winning at the time. it was worse because they thought the british would still be fighting napoleon. napoleon was out of the way by the time the deliberations started. america had not negotiated from a place of strength. in a sense, it was the best treaty they could get. they did the best they could. henry clay and three other

people of importance. it takes a long time to come about, but given the fact that they did not have a lot to work with, they came out with a very strong treaty. it did not heard that and jackson had won a battle after the treaty had been signed. it was almost like the two things came at the same time that would have won the war, even though the treaty had been signed after the battle. >> could you tell us about his jacket and its significance? >> it is the jacket that he would have been given to negotiate peace. this is very significant in that it is one of the few pieces that belonged to henry clay. it also served as an artifact during the time that kentucky a &m was here. they used the jacket as an artifact then as well. artifact then as well.