after that, palestinian president mahmoud abbas on united nations membership. now, the c-span series "the contenders," is live from augusta, maine. ♪ ♪ ho♪ >> you are looking at some of

the images from the 1884 presidential election and listening to songs in support of the republican candidate, james g. blaine. we are live from the blaine house. we are here with the sitting governor. this house is filled with blaine memorabilia. do you have a sense of the man while you are here? >> absolutely. welcome to the house. mr. blaine is here every day and we hear his spirit every evening. >> the house was built many years ago. and what have you come to learn about the man by living in his house? >> he not only was a very

strong supporter and founder of the republican party in maine, but also a national leader and he started maine on its course to where we are now. he was very influential in the state government and federal government. he was a powerhouse. a big tank powerhouse on a massive scale. -- a big-time power house. i am very honored to be a stored of the house. >> you probably have the best commute in america because this is right across the street from the capitol building. >> that's correct. >> there's maybe better air- conditioning. we are pleased to be here tonight to learn more about james g. blaine. for many people, he has faded into the pages of history but tonight we will learn about the republican members of the state

and your state. thank you for having us. >> welcome to the state of maine and to the people's house. we will be life for the next hour and half and learning more americaames g. blaine's and the republican party. two guests are waiting for me in the reception room and they will be my guess throughout the program. i will show you a clip from a round table discussion that we hosted. they discuss james g. blaine and his time. >> 1884 against cleveland. ironically, in 1876, it was b laine who prevented ulysses grant from making a comeback and winning a third term. >> besides being secretary of state for james garfield and

chester arthur -- >> he was secretary of state under three presidents. >> what else did he do? >> he was a speaker of the house. he was a governor. >> he changed some of the rules in the house. the speakers are always changing the rules somewhat to their advantage is. >> this was after the civil war when congress was much more central, much more potent than it had been. their reaction against the strong executive said in. to be the secret -- the speaker of the house, to be a power in congress meant a lot more fun than it would today. >> do you have anything to say? >> what do you think would have happened if he won? i think he would be regarded as

the best president between lincoln and tr. >> he was assertive, he had intellectual capacity. he had a lot of talent. i think that once he had actually achieved it -- people lost after the president's. this is a distorted malignancy that they suffer from. if they survive it and they win the office. i think that belaying is someone like clay. they have a great deal uncommon. -- i think that baline someone like clay. >> as promised, we are in the reception room. let me introduce you to our guests.

we're joined by 80 state historian and the chair of the history department at colby college. -- we are joined by the state historian. let me have you set the stage for us, the mid 1880's in america. we are 20 years passed the civil war. what was the country like going into this election in which he was a contender? >> we are a long way past the civil war in many ways and it is indicated by the fact that there will be a democratic president that is elected that year and that would have been unthinkable just a short time before that. >> why was it unthinkable? >> because the republicans were the winners of the war and they had controlled the governor for a long time cost the government for a long time. it felt -- they had controlled the government for a long time. >> talk to me about north and south america -- parts of the

country come excuse me. >> the civil war crushed economy in the south so one of the goals of reconstruction was to get the south up and running again but this is on the southern terms. james g. blaine was a powerhouse by 1884. >> maine had been originally part of massachusetts since the colonial times and became a state in 1820. we went into the union as a 23rd state. we were part of the missouri compromise. by the post civil war, maine had initially suffered a bit of a setback during the civil war which sent about 70,000 men to the war. 10,000 had been lost. our population in the decade of

the 1860's did not grow. by 1884, maine was getting back on its feet. maine has had a wonderful resource based industries and so we had ice, granite, lumber, we also had textiles, shoes. blaine was a part and a beneficiary of this very robust economy at the time. >> he contended against democrat grover cleveland who won. the republican party that nominated him, this was his third try for the white house, he was unsuccessful the two times earlier. what was the key to getting the nomination in 1884? >> persistence is part of this. he continued to try and he was recognized as a leading figure

in the republican party, there is no question. one of his many nicknames was mr. republican and he was certainly a leading figure. >> he had some great enemies at the time who tried to deny him the nomination. explain the spit in -- this split in the republican party. >> there was a group of moderates called the mugwumps. they were the intelligence tip from boston, philadelphia, new york. they were folks that believed that blaine was a very corrupt individual. you think of henry adams who wrote "democracy.' he did have very strong enemies even within his party. >> ultimately, this is a very close election. will you tell me about the result? >> he loses by 30 or 40 votes.

>> the actual vote, he loses by 25,000 votes nationally. the key to the loss is the loss of new york state. >> new york state was the place where theodore roosevelt was beginning to make his presence known. was he an influence? >> no, he was considered a mugwump, one of the liberals. that is a trend that began his career in that direction at least into the 1890's. >> what is interesting about the 1884 election is that was highly personal. >> highly personal. we usually don't think that they were but they were very personal, especially starting with andrew jackson. this is really a fight about blaine as a corrupt politician and cleveland had a child out of wedlock somewhere in the country.

they are slinging nasty mud at each other. >> there are two phrases that most high school students study in their high school books that are from this campaign, the first is rome, romanism, and rebellion. where did this come from? >> that was a minister and about a week before the election, he gave a talk that blaine was party to in which he denounced the democratic party as the party of rum, romanism, and rebellion. rome, -- rum, prohibition, romanism, the catholic church. this is one of the phrases that apparently contributed to blaine's loss. >> he did not denounce it. many people thought that he had said it. it is just that he did not

denounce it. >> also the new york catholic vote. >> was there an anti catholic mood in the country in some sectors? >> certainly, even still. there had been from the 1840's when the irish were emigrating in large numbers. also the prohibitionists and the temperance movement. >> the second phrase is -- what was that all about? >> that is about this accusation that cleveland had a child out of wedlock somewhere and in fact that he was not the moral upstanding man that could be set to challenge the corrupt and devious blaine. >> he chose a tactic which i read which was not to deny.

>> also to pay child support, pay for the child at the orphanage. >> a lesson perhaps for modern politicians. [laughter] >> i have a book here. the newspapers were reporting on him at the time. this is the book that james g. blaine wrote which helped to set the stage for his campaign. >> the first volume he began to write it in 1881. the first volume was published in 1884, maybe just in time for the campaign. the second volume did not appear until 1886. however, it was a highly popular two-volume best seller. it was his personal account of his experiences in washington from the time of the civil war to the early 1880's.

>> he made a lot of money from this. >> he did indeed. >> was he able to buy his house? >> yes, i think it contributed to it. not this house. this goes back much earlier. in 1862, which is a critical year for him. he is speaker of the maine house of representatives and at the same time he is running for congress. it is in 1862 that he buys this house for $5,000 and he and his wife moved in with their family. this house had been built just a few years before in the 1830's by a retired sea captain. if this became his great political center for the rest of his life. >> he hosted many dignitaries here. >> what you bear in mind that in 1859, he becomes the chair of the republican party in maine and this is a post that he holds until he becomes secretary of

state. in the 20 years or so, this house is a lecture and central for the republican party in maine as well as a springboard for his national campaign. >> if people could see that the capital is right outside of the window. >> this is a strategic decision to acquire this house. >> ulysses grant stayed here. >> he did. >> we are going to invite you in a little bit on the conversation. we are looking at 14 men and they are men given the presidential election process in this country, who were candidates for president in their time and not succeed for their bid for the white house. james g. blaine was someone who was known internationally. we will spend some time tonight

digging into what made him so well known and why he ended up failing in his bid for the white house. our phone lines will be open and we will take phone calls at about 20 minutes past the hour and we welcome your comments and questions about the gilded age in america and the burgeoning republican party. i mentioned that we are going to be talking about some of his other campaigns and i wanted to start and go back to 1876 which is the first time he ran for the white house. he was nominated at that time. do you know about the person who nominated him and the speech? >> this is a defense of blaine against accusations of corruption in connection with the railroad industry.

not everyone believed that he was as corrupt as some people think that he did. >> why did the phrase steak? >> he seems to have been the kind of person who had great admirers and tremendous enemies and detractors. >> it was a label that stuck because in the cartoons of the day, the plumed knight was a wonderful image. there was a lot of interest in romantic literature. he was shown in the elizabethan costume or a knight in shining armor. this was a perfect kind of image of him. >> how important were political cartoons in affecting the electorate? >> they were tremendously important. this was a time in which a

victorian publications of founded in america for the first time. they were very widespread. they were easily produced. in the case of the political journals, you have a judge which was pro republican and another who was pro democratic. the one that comes from "the judge," which shows blaine as the elder statesmen in his elizabethan costume. all around him are letters from states all over the country begging him to become president. this is the definitely a perot campaign cartoon. >> tell us about the mugwumps in 1884. -- this is definitely a pro campaign carton.

>> that have breeze were those that did not support ulysses grant and the stalwarts for those who did. -- the half breeds were those that did not support ulysses grant. >> what happened in the convention that he did not get the nomination? >> shortly before, some letters or a field which traded a big scandal for him. they involve some very questionable stock deals involving the railroads. -- some letters were revealed which created a big scandal for him. blaine recognized this was happening at the convention. in '76, it went to hayes. >> he ran again in 1880. where the half breeds and the stalwarts active in the party by then? >> i am not sure that they had

those terms anymore. there was still divisions within the party. that year, james garfield did get the nomination thanks to blaine in many ways. >> blaine wanted that nomination himself that it came after many many balance. -- ballots. he threw his votes to garfield. >> what happened to him after that? >> he became secretary of state. >> garfield was struck by an assassin's bullet. blaine was actually with him in the train station. >> yes, he was. they were walking arm in arm peridot they were very good friends. -- they were walking arm in arm. they were very good friends. they were on their way to give

some speeches. >> we will spend a little bit more time before we get some calls about these characters. we have heard about the suggestions of corruption. if he were to walk into this room today, what would he look like, what did he sound like? what are some of the things that you know from your studies of the man? >> he was considered very handsome, very well-dressed, extremely well spoken. beginning in the late 1850's, he started out his career here in a gust up as a newspaper editor -- in augusta as a newspaper editor. he had lots of experience in stump speaking. that really gave him a lot of practice towards being able to articulate his ideas as he emerged as a national figure.

charismatic, magnetism was another word attached to him. >> my understanding is that he had a terrific memory for people's names so he was the kind of politician who could make you feel like he knew who you are and what your concerns war and so on. >> there is a story told when he is in the 1884 campaign, he is on a train and he recognized a man who he had met as a wounded soldier in a military hospital 20 years before. that was the kind of memory he had four faces. >> what a gift for a politician, to be able to memorize names and recall them. >> he was a great politician. [laughter] >> not just in that and in his mastery of political tactics. >> mastery of tactics, mastery

of leading his party. there is this sense of when he was in congress during those years that he wrote about, which were critical year for the nation, he had a way to smooth over the differences between the sections. also to include the south. >> some of the references that i read about him more material, a hypochondriac, prone to depression. >> he was constantly complaining about his health. in the last few months of his life, he was truly ill. >> he was also relentlessly ambitious and i know that i read some where that said that there was no one who yearned for hundred for the presidency more than james g. blaine. >> throughout his years, the

charges of corruption from his days of promoting the railroad, lobby for congress stuck with him. we have another one of these cartoons. this refers to the charges against him. will you tell us about this episode? >> this is from the election in 1884. this is a tremendously powerful image in that election in that it is recognized as one of the factors that helped to defeat blaine. blaine is shown as a roman senator in the senate and his toga is being lifted from his body. underneath are tattooed his various political themes. the senators are looking aghast at his political misdeeds being revealed. in the midst of that crowd is

his running mate and also a young teddy roosevelt. >> and the letters that were his defense. does history record whether or not he was corrupt? >> the mulligan letters were the accusation as opposed to being his defense and he tried very hard to make them seem as though they had no value. i read something about him slamming them down on the desk and daring people to read them. then he stole them from whoever had them. he went to the hotel and then he disappeared with them and he never returned them. he tried to use them as a way to protect himself. i don't think that there's any clarity that he was not guilty. some called him jay gould's handyman or busboys are something to that effect.

>> they continue to dog him. in the eighth 84 campaign, someone publish what was believed to be a version of the mulliken letters and a pamphlet. -- mulligan letters and a pamphlet. >> we will involve some of our viewers in the discussion. our first caller is from atlanta. caller: hello, how are you tonight? >> great, thank you. caller: i just finished reading the biography of speaker read. they seem in the same place. is that true? is that just a feature of the biography? >> no, i think you are correct. your mentioning thomas reed who was born in portland. he was just a little bit younger

than blaine. he spent his entire public life as a congressman. he rose to be speaker, like blaine was also speaker. reed served in the late 1880's and into the 1890's. the corruption was never a question in relation to reed. reed was a totally honest and forthright individual, a person of great integrity. in addition to that, reed is described as a towering figure in the history of the development of the congress. he is considered to be one of the most influential speakers of the house in the history of the house. his rules, his reform of the house. the recognition that the majority rule had to be counted and had to be taken into account.

>> our next caller is watching us in san francisco. caller: i think you are right on the major issues here. it seems to me that the country was going through a major transition from the old money having formalized their ethical values and then there transition with the roads in two big industrial corporations and raising money for corporations. very different sets of values. the question is, how could someone who was busy making all of the deals and representing wall street maintain any kind reputation in this situation? >> one answer to that would be that there was a great recognition of his sheer power. because he was so powerful and to do so much for the party and for the other goals, people

could set aside his appearance -- apparent relationship with the railroads and the industry. >> next is a call from portland, new york. caller: i would like to thank c- span for bringing this wonderful series. is mr. blain making money before he went into politics or did he have money to begin with? -- is mr. blaine making money before he went into politics? >> he is from a modest background. he started out as a teacher. then he married harriet stanwood. there was some question about the validity of the merit so they were remarried again in 1851. by 1853, they're getting word from her relatives that there was a business opportunity for

him to come back. they relocated to augusta in 1854. he was involved >> admits all lists continuous daily newspaper. >> looking at his time. , the newspapers of the time, he was both a newspaper man and involved in party politics. that was comment? >> that would have been common. i think it was the primary way politicians got the word out about what ever their policies were. there was no television. there was no radio. the internet. newspapers and public speaking with the ways that politicians

operated. but it be also have to understand that newspapers are very partisan. >> shamelessly sell. >> a particular group report would not particular view of party. but it was his interest in the republican party -- how does the newspaper business and get to that? >> 1854, the year he comes to the editor of the journal is the year in which the national republican party is founded. he is involved in that. other famous people are. he becomes the first civil war governor of maine. the newspaper is very much aligned with the rise of the party in maine. >> i will take a telephone call from washington d.c..

>> high. i find it. fascinating. i was wondering how would a america be very different if mr. blaine had become president. also, in terms of what we do not really hear about him in history books. can you elaborate further on that? >> thank you for watching. how would the country be different if he had been elected? >> i am not sure the country would be terribly different. i think perhaps mckinley becomes a very pro-business president and 1896. i think bland maybe would have brought that earlier a change had he become elected in 1884. what do you think? >> the only thing i would add to that is some scholars have said

that because of his personal magnetism would have perhaps in the eight great figurehead leader for the country. he would have projected an image of confidence and power that had really been lacking in her recent presence in that period. he might have been the most important figure between lincoln and teddy roosevelt. >> chicago is up next. you are on the air, dave. >> i just wanted to make sure if i am correct, there was a comment about the land that his four years in congress was referred to 20 years on the make. the role or connection -- the

rail and road connections, there is a small town in virginia, currently csx. if i also remember correctly, it is one of the things we have to watch what people say in your favor. did he not lose the york and what of his rounds because he did not repeat the statement that people would not support a party of rebellion? thank you for taking my call. >> thank you for watching. 20 years on the make, hot? that is a great title. >> harper's weekly was his forearm. every week he created another fascinating and challenging

political cartoon. the heat just downright didn't like to blame. -- he just downright didn't like blame the progressive think there was another thing where he went out to dinner with an incredibly wealthy bunch of millionaires -- maybe all the top millionaires in new york. despite the fact that new york was in the great depression and struggling greatly. he seemed to be greatly blinded to the inappropriateness of it. >> that was the very day that he also was witnessed to the rev. speech. that was immediately reported to the press has the feast. >> before the presidential to 14 years in the house of representatives, the period of

time of reconstruction, where was he on the issues involving the construction? >> it is interesting. my sense is he was largely a moderate. it would have helped to make him provide some to the nation. they say he was quite successful in taking congress and one of the most difficult times of its history. he was also an early advocate of black suffrage which i find quite interesting. it would not be considered a moderate position. my sense is that was more altered -- opportunistic than anything else. he believed it was important because it was important to give blacks the vote so they would vote republican. the >> he also had enemies. he had a group well-known enemy.

>> he is a congressman from new york. >> i can't speak so vividly about him either. another was a struggle between the two of that. it led to a historic fight on the floor. we do have a clip about it from the senate historian. let's listen. >> at that period, the two leading republican politicians was the u.s. senator from new york and the u.s. senator from maine. they were both dynamic. they were both particular. there were magnetic personalities. the attracted lots of people to them. they could give a speech to a convention and not the convention out of its mind. there were so specific. they were legislative geniuses. the battle in the congress in the 1870's and so.

they hated each other with an absolute passion. no two political figures have hated each other as much as them. it is partly because they are about the same age, the same ambition. the new one or the other withstand it the way of the other getting to the white house at some point. the rivalry started back when they were in the house of representatives in the 1860's. he was an enormously proud, of a man pretty was very handsome. he was dressed to the nines. he started about in a way that made some of the rest of the members of comfortable. it kept it out of the way of a man that never particularly had a good word for anyone. blaine, who is a young upcoming politician from maine, was not afraid to take on anyone.

in a debate in 1876, he launched into one of the most savage attacks on another man of congress. today, you will the could not attack of the man that way. it was full of sarcasm and with allusions to the turkey gobblers strut which she walked around. it was driven. it made all of his opponents laugh at him. secondly, from then on they were always making him into a turkey or some other figure. >> what you are looking at on your screen is here in the plan house, that is actually at launch from the capital and senate that is preserved here.

turkey gobblers a strike and of the things they used to say to one another. how did the stores get passed along to us? >> indeed. the press was very lively in those days. he way in which the information was translated into other newspapers around the country was a telegraph. stories would be written and it would be telegraphed to other papers and a copy from other papers as well. >> there was much about it that was not just about the politics but about the entertainment of you that it had. great writing and a clever trading -- clever freezing. next is helen. >> this is a wonderful series.

he wore so much. all of my students are watching. they will be tested. i hope that are paying attention. i have a question about the blain amendment. was there a motivation that went along with this? >> more than to states have played amendments even though it was not successful on the national level. pacific would be close to 40. >> it is 37. >> it was an amendment that he proposed that would prevent schools from using -- religious institutions that would stop them from using federal funding. it is a separation of church and state. >> do you know if it would ever have a supreme court challenge? has it made its way to the

courts in the state's? >> i am not sure. >> what do we not know about land amendments then? >> that is an interesting question. maybe because there are attempts -- attempts from the supreme court side from others who are trying to challenge the separation. >> what motivated him and putting it forward? >> well, i think it was 1875. i think he may well have already had an eye on the selection. he may have been taking an issue. this will not be on thinking it was a component to it as well. the catholic schools that will happen most likely tried and not pay taxes or use federal funding. but he was a congregationalists. >> did he have a catholic parent? >> yes. he attended the south parish church here and i got stuck. in fact, there are beautiful

tiffany windows he and other members of that church. >> we have a viewer from washington, d.c. named iran. >> good evening. -- named ron. >> thank you for hosting this. i have been watching c-span for years. my question goes to the chinese exclusion act. at that time, i believe that most new england republicans were against the chinese exclusion act because they tend to be more liberal. they were not on board with that. supporting it with the southern democrats. why was he not so liberal in terms of civil rights at that

time compared to the other new england republicans? i would like to learn about it. thank you. >> i think, again, it is similar to elizabeth's answer on another issue. this is a man who always had his eye on the president's secret in order to win the presidency, he needed to do it from another perspective. he recognized in the west and especially in california that chinese emigration was a major issue. he wanted those folks. >> what i am taking away from this is this is a man who wanted the president seek desperately. he was not in ideologically driven so much as he had his fingers to the political wind. that is one way to interpret his political career. when i think about the pro black suffrage policy and think at the same time about the chinese exclusion act policy, i find it

hard to bring us to get together. if he was racially progressive, why would he not be racially progress of on the other side. that is an indication i think as an opportunistic approach and very ambitious. >> welcome to the conversation. >> was blowing so obsessed with the presidency that he considers himself a failure for not obtaining it? >> that is an interesting question. i do not think we get that sense. i think what happened -- he went through the process three times. 1876, 1880, 1884. he was also kind of dangled in front of him in 1888 and in 1892 even though he was a very old man. i think he felt toward the end of his life is great accomplishment was that second term of secretary of state

between 1889 and 1892. he was able to play out a lot of his ideas not only on the national scene but the international scene as well. i do not think he viewed his career as a fill you. >> you are watching c-span "contenders series." we will take a short break and tell you what about the series. >> the contenders -- are life -- are look at the life of james g. blaine continues in a moment. for more information on our series "the contenders", but to our website at cpsan.org. they will find biographies of all the candidates, portions of their speeches when available. and that is all at c-span.org/

thecondenders. we now return to maine and their discussion on the life of james g. blaine. >> you are looking at a live picture of the house and at augusta, maine. it is now the official residence of the mayor since 1920. we are live at said the governor's mansion to learn more about this house as long-term owner, unsuccessful presidential candidates. three times he won the nomination in 1884. he felt to win the presidency. he made a mark on this country are learning more about tonight. arkansas two guess what that are joining us is a historian. we are taking your telephone calls. let me give you the phone numbers pretty are welcome to join in the conversation.

we welcome your involvement. tell me about main in this time. . we talked a little more about him coming here. how difficult would it have been for him to establish himself? >> i think that he had a very good connection. the connection for him to become the editor of the journal was essentially made by family and friends who wanted his life back here. also wanted to make an opportunity available to him as well. he came at a perfect time in the 1850's, a decade before the civil war. it was really at the zenith of

prosperity. it was a recession in the late 1850's. generally speaking, maine is really questing in both its economic and political force at that time. >> last week, we were at the home of henry clay. with their connections? >> there were in the sense that he had grown up an in-house workload was absolutely idolize. clay was an idol for him as well. what he was a young man, he spent time in kentucky. working as a teacher. he made the point of syncline whenever he could what he was in kentucky. he was very devout. >> there is one account at the age of 17, he attended one of clay's major speeches in 1847 and it took copious notes. >> our next caller from indianapolis. this is edward. how are you? >> plan as secretary of state

under benjamin harrison. >> he has served under three presidents. >> garfield garfield and here said. that was a long period. with harrison, he was in a wonderful position. he really had reached the zenith of his career. he was viewed as powerful if not more powerful than the president himself. he had free range to be able to develop. ideas he had been working on for years in terms of international relations. his particular interest during the 1892. with central and south america. he developed including the idea for the pan-american union and

so on. >> i want to get more involved on that and of little on. let me ask you about the study here. there are few pieces with late -- with abraham lincoln. t know him? >> idea now that he knew him personally. >> he went to congress. he was elected to congress in 1892. he would have served in washington from 1863 -- lincoln was assassinated on april 14. there is a very poignant reminder of his connection with lincoln here at the house. that is that this card -- seven days before lincoln is assassinated he went to lincoln. we know from other instances that he would have had

opportunities to meet and talk with lincoln. we also know that he was an admirer of lincoln that when he met -- he but the addition to the house for the study -- he wanted to build the very same wallpaper in his study that he had used in his cabinet room. >> that was the card but -- i believe it was a replica? it would have been necessary at the time. i do have a mean person this -- involved in the discussion. >> of was wondering what kind of other attacks he used aside from the claim that he had a child out of wedlock. >> thank you. as far as i know that was his primary personal attack against him. it would have been political attacks against him and so on. but some scandalous would it

have been in this time. for someone to have a child out of wedlock? what to think it would have been quite scandalous. >> i would think so too. >> just to answer that question a little bit more. there were nuts and bolts issues. one of the strongest issues that the republicans and democrats differed on in a post civil war. was the care of. how much to tax. the tariff was a major factor. >> currency was also getting to be a major factor? >> a very much so. the civil war had proliferated the use of paper currency. so the whole issue of greenback currency was very much in the 1870's and 18 80s. >> ended the 1890's. >> to send is up next. hello, james. >> we mentioned the civil war

government. the first was my great great brand but there -- pri great- grandfather. additionally, i think the rift among have cost in york and the presidency. some of them came back to haunt him, i think. >> thank you for your contribution. >> he was born on here is hill. he was a highly skilled lawyer. he had served as governor of maine briefly and became a senator. in 1860, he is chosen as his running mate and serves as the

vice president of the united states. then after the war, he goes back into political life again as a senator. he would have been very much a part of a glance world has a political party in maine. he was a powerful towering figure in that period. he would have interacted with blank. >> he he was a republican who stood against bland. >> to hear people bring up the question of maybe it is time for a new party. the two party system is failing us. this is a. what we saw the evolution of political party is. take a minute or so and explain about the demise and the rest of the republicans? >> i think it is very much associated with the person you are talking about in your

program last week. henry clay died -- did he was slow closely connected to the whig party that it collapsed. it was not about henry clay, it was also about the slavery issue and the anti-immigrant issue. it was another number of issues that led to the development of this political chaos which gave way to the republican party but also the split in the democratic party of the 1850's -- we like to introduce you to him. our guest -- >> take a minute and it take this about the character you are writing about here. >> he was a very important figure in lincoln's administration. he was the chief of military justice. after lincoln was assassinated, he was the prosecutor. anybody who has seen the film --

the conspirator could anybody who has seen that film has seen a representation. bucks congratulation. it will be available. it is not the top of the hour. a couple of minutes early. you will hear a couple at the top of the hour as we get into the second part of our program. let me take another telephone call. >> i think your show is wonderful. i appreciate the historical commentary as well as the interviewer commentary. my question is, can we put forth some commentary relative to bonds experience in time as compared to today's political landscape? >> what do you mean? give me a little more of what you like. >> i think lane represents

something that is pretty dominant in the american populace today. i think bland was very inspiring to hear about this time. --i think blaine was very inspiring to hear about this time. >> thank you so much. >> i have to say that i am not sure what he is looking for. if you are asking whether i think he is a politician whether he would be reckoned as it will today, i think he would be kind of recognizable in his ability to know the political system -- to be a record career politician. >> could he have competed in what would be

different about that? >> good question. i think he had a lot of personal skills that probably would stand today. to be an effective leader, you need to have a charismatic personality. you need to get your message across well. these are things he did very successfully. also -- he really understood the behind the scenes working of the political scene. >> we talked about the media being so supportive of parties. somebody who had persistent charges against them -- or their investigations by the media at the time? >> i think even so, today we investigate people's corruption all the time. this bill proceed with their careers. careers.