f ♪ ♪ >> next, the c-span series "the contenders," on key political

figures who ran for president and lost, but changed political history. tonight is eugene debs. then the white house briefing on wlaki.ath of anwar a >> our featured contender is eugene debs. at the turn of the 20th-century, a five time candidate for president on the socialist ticket, and the nation's most celebrated world war i protester. this footage captures eugene debs on his return home to terre haute, indiana. following his release from prison by warren harming -- warren harding from charges

stemming from those war protest. tonight, we are in terre haute at his home and museum. let me introduce you to our two guests. ernest freeberg's book is called "democracy's prisoner." it has been 85 years since he died. why do we care about him? >> he was one of our most important labor leaders at a crucial time. conflict between labor and capital. more importantly, he was the central figure in the socialist movement at a time it was a viable growing part of the american political culture. >> does he have a lasting legacy? >> i think like many third- party candidates, he and his fellow socialists moved the conversation in different -- very important directions. in that regard, he is of his time but he has also made a lasting impact on us as well. >> we will have time to delve into some of the elections later on. of the five bids he made, are

any particularly significant? >> the 1912 bid is the high mark of socialism where he got 6% of the votes. a different election was 1920 where he was imprisoned in the atlanta penitentiary and got 1 million votes while running from prison. >> in our 90 minute program, "the contenders," we look at people who made an attempt at the white house and failed. but they had an effect on political and american history. we are live tonight from the eugene debs home in terre haute. it is on the campus of indiana state university. he lived here in this house. he and his wife kate, who lived here for years after he died. we will show you more of the house as we continue here. the top floor of the house has an interesting mural.

the mural depicts the years of his public life. throughout our program we will be showing you aspects of the artwork to help illustrate eugene debs' story. let me introduce you to our second guest. she is joining us from what was his bedroom, now is a museum room with a lot of artifacts. lisa phillips -- she is a specialist in labor history. lisa phillips, thank you for being with us. your thoughts on his significance to the american story. >> i think the significance has to do with this activity in labor unions. the american railway union and the socialist party as well. he has had a lasting effect on many of the laws that were passed during the progressive era as a result of his activism, some of which we still enjoy. he can tell us a lot about his time period from running for president.

and for all of its labor union activity as well. >> lisa phillips will be showing us some of the artifacts through the house. she is part of the debs foundation. tell us a little bit about the debs foundation. >> it seeks to keep his legacy alive. it hopes to promote not only the museum, but the policies that eugene debs promoted such as the social justice and equality and the rights of workers. we try to live through the spirit of his mission. >> as we turn to your expertise, this house and what you showcase here, can you tell me a little bit about how the house is financed and functions? who pays for it? who takes care of it? >> it is paid for by the debs foundation and is cared for by dr. charles king and karen brown. both of them are here in terre

haute and run tours of the museum on a daily basis. >> our viewers in 10 minutes or so, we will open up phone lines and invite you into the discussion. very interested to hear the questions and discussion about eugene debs and the turn of the 20th century and that period that he represents. let me ask you a little bit about what made him a success. >> many people remember him most of all as a dynamic speaker. this is an area of wonderful -- era of wonderful stump speakers that can fill two or three hours with a speech. he was really the best in that genre. in fact, so good he could have charged admission for his audience and that is how they funded the socialist campaign in many cases. he was very charismatic and had the ability -- i think he began as a victorian speaker but --

staid victorian speaker but became much more comfortable over the years. he developed a more modern impromptu style that later made an impact on his audience. >> over your shoulder is debs' library. my understanding is that eugene debs dropped out of school at age 14. i am curious about his extensive library and how he educated himself. >> he was very much self-taught. he worked very hard at that. he began working in the railroad union and was interested in literature there. he worked for a while as a grocery clerk in town. he always wanted more education but had to rely on his own. >> how did terre haute shape eugene debs? >> in many ways. mostly through his upbringing here when he was a younger man. a bully and a young man.

-- boy and the unmanned. he always harkened back to terre haute, and he invoked it all the time in terms of the harmonious relationships that he said developed an old terre haute where everybody could aspire to do something good in their lives whether it be a business owner, whether you are a worker. everybody had the chance. he always said, in the old terre haute, everybody had the chance to do something and to improve their lives. that is what he held in the most regard. >> when you walk around the house, you can see he was interested in politics from an early age. he made bid for clerk in his town and made a successful bid for the indiana legislature on the democratic ticket. his early roots were in two party systems. can you talk about that? >> i can say a little bit which is to say he ran on the democratic party ticket when he believed that he could form a relationship between multiple groups of people whether they be business owners, workers, and he believed the party system in

that regard. it was not until later in the 1880's and 1890's that he felt the party system through the democrats and republicans were not working for the best interests of all the people combined. >> when he sought the white house, what was his intention? did he ever really think that he could win? >> he said very clearly he had no intention of ever winning. he was interviewed in 1908 and they said what would it be like for you to be president. he said if the party ever becomes close to winning, i would be the last person who would want the job. for that they with with or that they would put into the job. he really thought of himself more as an evangelist for the cause. he believed in democracy. i think he was more interested in using the campaigns to generate interest among workers

and develop class consciousness to deliver his message very powerfully every four years. >> give us a snapshot of the america he was dissatisfied with. >> there was an enormous concentration of capital. that was off one of the high of the problem of the time. many people were worried about the labor problem. many workers felt in the face of the rapid industrialization that their skills were less soluble, their wages were being fitted into the international market where they were getting declining wages and a more difficult work environment. there was an enormous sense that labor was deeply unhappy. eugene debs turned it around and said the problem is not labor, the problem is capital. it is not that the workers are unhappy, the root problem is that these enormous concentrations of capital are undermining american democracy. >> socialism was on the rise in europe. how was eugene debs doing here different from over there? >> it was similar at first. they considered themselves

internationalists. socialism needed to be a worldwide movement. they expected it would be. they felt there were distinctive challenges in america to convince workers to do that. there was a stronger sense of a working class in europe on which to draw for socialist organizing there. one of the struggles for eugene debs throughout his career was to convince workers they should think of themselves not as democrats or republicans, not on the basis of their religious affiliations, but of members of the working class. >> how successful were he and his fellow thinkers in convincing the public? at the height of his popularity, how much ground that they make? >> it depends on how you measure that. if you measure it on his success, the high water mark was 1912. he had 6% of the vote. >> never any electoral college? >> no.

there was a much broader period socialists were much more successful on the local level. there were many socialist mayors. city officials of various kinds. there was a vibrant international socialist society for college students started by jack london. a lot of college campus ferment about socialism. there was a lively press, some of our best in journalism from that time period comes out of the socialist press journals. socialism was much bigger than counting the votes. >> today in congress, the united states senator bernie sanders from vermont is a socialist. we talked to him about eugene debs' legacy. let's listen to what he had to say. >> a lot of big ideas that he advocated. he talked about when people get old, there should be social insurance for them.

there should be retirement benefit for them. that is what we call social security today. amazingly, in 2011 there are those same people that want to destroy social security. he believed health care was the right of all people. that battle continues today. i think it is fair to say that many of the huge advances made during the 1930's under president roosevelt, the great society under lyndon johnson, and throughout, those were ideas that people liked eugene debs probably brought to the attention. the first person to bring to the attention of millions of working people. >> let me ask you to add your perspective to the america that he saw and was dissatisfied with. ultimately, whether or not he saw himself as anti-american or wanting to change america. >> i do not think he saw himself as anti-american at all. i think he thought he was

advocating through his socialist party activity a kind of america that he harkened back to again in the old days of terre haute, one that was more community centered, one that was less big business. in his early days, he was not anti-capitalist at all in his early days. it was not until the advent of big business and corporate capitalism that he felt there had to be a movement toward that profit motive that continued to bring everyday workers wages down. >> let me ask you -- you have something to add to that? >> i agree with lisa. one of the things that made him so powerful is his ability to cast socialism as an american movement. it was -- this is a revolutionary country in the first place, we fought a revolution for democracy. in his lifetime he experienced the civil war as a revolution. some of his greatest idols were the abolitionists.

his argument was the country had fought a battle to overthrow slavery. -- chattel slavery. the next step is to overthrow wage slavery. >> a question for you -- who were his workers? did he include women in his view of it? did he include people other than whites? did he include immigrants? what was his definition, lisa? >> he was one of the first industrial union leaders. he was mounting a movement on behalf of the working class which he believed everybody who was a worker who earned wages, which were two-thirds of americans by 89 feet, -- by 1890? was a part of whether they be an immigrant, black, a woman. so he saw them as all members of a working class that needed to be uplifted in some way, shape, or form. there is controversy to this day about whether he did enough on behalf of women and african- americans. he had some trouble seeing

immigrants who came over, especially chinese and italian immigrants, who came over temporarily and worked for a very low wages and brought them back to their home countries as part of the same american working class that was trying to fight for higher wages. he had some trouble over the course of his career. reconciling that. as an industrial movement, his was one that recognized the rights of all workers regardless of their backgrounds. >> i understand you have one of the artifact copies of "the jungle." of in sinclair. what is the significance? >> it is a huge significance. sinclair published it in 1905. he was a member of the socialist party himself. he highlighted all the horrible conditions that meatpackers worked in and the conditions. what really riled up the country were not only the conditions, but also the quality

of the meat that was coming out of the plants. he was the one who wrote about rats and people's fingers being caught in the processed meat and how horrible that was. he and eugene debs were supporters of each other. upton sinclair was able to come off like that is -- able to, like debsc demonstrate the problems with the growing of big business. that lead to the revolution of the food administration. -- the food and drug administration, the fda. >> the book actually ends with a scene where he wanders into a socialist meeting and here's a character that is supposed to be eugene debs making a socialist speech. for upton sinclair, that was not food regulations but socialism was the better answer.

-- figure answer. -- bigger answer. eugene debs is actually right in the book. >> can you tell the story of his first imprisonment and how he got connected with the concept of socialism at that time? >> he was the head of the american railway union which mounted a successful strike against the great northern railroad company in 1893. the aru gained thousands of members with eugene debs as its head. many of those members were part of the palace car company in 1894. the petition for support when they decided to walk out against george pullman who dropped their wages by 28%. they wanted to walk out and they asked for support. eugene debs was reluctant at

first. he thought it was too risky. but the pullman workers had a lot of support not only within the town of pullman which is outside of chicago, but also had a lot of support from railray workers all the way to st. louis. they stayed some of the first boycotts were sympathetic strikes along the railway. it became national in scope. as a result of that, president grover cleveland and the clerks got involved and issued an injunction to stop them from stopping the transport of goods, especially the u.s. mail, along that corridor. grover cleveland got involved. he sent u.s. troops to open up the railway depots that had been shut down as a result of the strike that had been called by the aru. eugene debs ultimately did not

call the striking workers off and was found in contempt of court for not following the injunction. he spent three months in prison for being in contempt of court. it was then in prison after the pullman strike that he was introduced to socialist party literature and became a socialist party member and staunch advocate. >> i read a description that he entered prison a changed man for the first time. do you know more about that? >> i think he did come to the realization that when the federal troops came in and smashed the strike -- when he ended up in prison for defending the rights of workers that he made it as clear as could be that the two parties were both working against labor and there needed to be an alternative. he did not go right away to socialism. he was involved in the populist party.

he was very active initially. when that failed, the socialist party emerged after that. >> our two guests are going to begin bringing your telephone calls into the mix. we will put the phone numbers on the screen. we will mix calls in throughout our 90 minutes here. as we take our first call, we want to give you a sense of where the house in terre haute is and on the campus. we will show you that via google maps as we listen to our first caller from north carolina. hi, steve. >> please compare eugene debs to william jennings bryan. >> it seems like they are

appealing or trying to appeal to somewhat the same constituency. >> thank you very much. william jennings bryan wasn't earlier profile. -- was a earlier profile. in the election of 1912, how did they compare? >> eugene debs was initially an admirer of him. i think they shared some concerns about reform. i think the crucial difference is eugene debs was really a revolutionary. he not only was interested in reform, reform was necessary but they felt something much greater was needed. there needed to be an anti- capitalism and public ownership of the means of production. that was a position that clearly distinguished him from bryan's campaign. >> the election was his first try in 1900. william mckinley, william th.ings bryan the da

he got 0.6% of the popular vote that year. do you know what his early appeals were as a candidate and how they changed over his many bids? >> the real challenge for eugene debs was to try to knit together socialists coming from very different positions. one of the strongest hotbeds of socialism was oklahoma. people who had been populous started to develop these socialist camp meetings where they would gather together to hear socialist speeches. eugene debs was a real hero there. they also needed to speak to trade unionists in chicago and milwaukee to radical bohemians in san francisco, to jewish garment workers on the lower east side. it was a real challenge to find a way to knit together people who all agree on some level that capitalism needed to change fundamentally. they were coming at this from very different positions. it took a while to build the apparatus. >> another election in 1908

which involved william jennings bryan. he began to understand some early marketing. he had some campaign tactics like the red train special and the red special ban. can you tell us a little more about that? >> 1908 was a critical year because of the ascendance of the popularity of the labor party -- the socialist party and the federation of labor and other labor unions. his message appealed to increasingly more people from a diverse amount of backgrounds. the red special would have been a good unifying symbol to use to unite what were very different groups of people who were working on farms or in urban areas. it meant to his supporters a challenge to big business.

a challenge to capitalism. they would have called it big business or monopolies in that period. that is what read what it meant in the 1908 election. -- red would have a man in the 1908 election. it was a good way to unify people with just the use of the red special. >> this is a caller named randy. welcome. >> thank you. i just wanted to give you background. my grandfather voted for eugene debs in his election. as i went through school, we never heard of eugene debs. it seems like one thing that is really lacking in our education system is labor history. the fact that people -- many people died for those benefits. they were not gifts. people were literally killed and beaten and jailed for the right to have this insurance. -- the employment insurance. what the neo-fascists that are

now running on the republican party want is -- it seems like to re-establish that message more than ever. we are in a critical point in history where if we are not careful we could go towards fascism. i think his message now was more important than ever. >> a question for you before you go. i am asking you if you talked to your grandfather about eugene debs. which election that he actually go then? >> the last election i believe was the 1916 election. >> that would be 1920. >> 1916 was the year he sat out i believe. thank you, randy. first of all, why did he sit out in 1916? >> he was in ill health. i think he only ran in 1920

because of the unusual circumstances. he felt it was time to pass on the bataan of the movement to -- the baton of the movement to somebody else. he did run for congress in indiana. he did not feel up to the red special. he was giving 15 speeches a day and would come back exhausted to terre haute and collapse in one of the bedrooms upstairs. he would spend weeks trying to recover. 1916 he decided to sit out. >> randy's comments are probably amusing to your ears about the lack of teaching of labor history. you keep the college level. i am wondering what you think about teaching of labor history to america's students. >> of course, i would say it should be taught more than it is. i think there is so much we can learn about working people, about all of us who work every day and try to make ends meet and value them by teaching their history is very important.

it gives us a very different perspective on what it means to fight for some of those rights that the caller was mentioning and not take them for granted. as hard-fought as they were fought for, they can be easily taken a way. we need to really teach those struggles and how difficult it was so we do not take for granted the benefits that we received as a result of them. >> in the early part of the 20th century, was there a middle class? >> yes. a large part of corporate capitalism generated a much larger middle-class. >> of the people he represented, would they be part of the middle-class or enlist the working class? >> there was a large number of middle-class supporters. they went to his meetings expecting to see just working class. people were surprised to find that actually many of the most

important writers and political thinkers we can think of from that time period were either members of the socialist party are very sympathetic to their agenda. he considered it a working- class movement, but it had a strong leadership component. from the middle class. >> and in 1900, would it be dangerous to call yourself a socialist in the united states? for the authority off watching you in anyway? >> no, there were particular incidents to be involved as a socialist and a particular strike environment was a problem. there was some conflicts over the rights of soapbox speakers. they were big believers of bringing their message to the speech. -- to the street. sometimes there were clashes

with the police. as far as persecution of the socialists, they were very much a part of the political conversation. >> when did the public at large begin to become more suspicious about intentions? >> when socialists started to get a lot of votes, that started the conversation. in 1908 and 1912, teddy roosevelt called eugene debs one of our most undesirable citizens. of possible bloodshed and anarchy. -- an apostle of bloodshed and anarchy. there was a sense that the forces of moderate opinion is needed to push back against socialism rhetorically. it was not until world war i that the gloves really came off and socialism was physically and legally assaulted >> next is a caller named cal from manhattan. >> hello. i am loving the series. and you for this series. it is really fascinating history. just off the bat, there are a

couple of things that strike me and hopefully your guests can comment on one or the other. one is the grievances against the growing capitalism, strangling the rights of the people as it was thought of then as it is now. as you know, we have these protests in lower manhattan that seems to have part of its platform -- some of the same grievances as i understand them. also, the idea of the organization -- the mechanics of the organization of the movement. occupy wall street is receiving criticism because they are making a deliberate attempt not to have a specific platform or agenda or a list of grievances. maybe you can talk about the mechanics of organizing a movement as eugene debs and who might have inspired him in his life with things he might agree with. thanks for the series.

>> let me ask lisa to take up the question of what were his grievances against capitalism. >> his grievances was monopoly. corporate capitalism he had the most trouble with. that is why he thought an overthrow of corporate capitalism was in order. his grievances against them was the accumulation of wealth in the hands of a few and controlling what he argued were combinations of corporations and business owners would be able to get together to control many aspects of the economy. that is what he was clearly against. what he advocated were labor unions with similar groups of workers that could work together to break the monopolies that corporate entities have been forming with each other to control many aspects of the economy at the time.

people argue that our time period is very similar to eugene debs' time period in terms of the growing gap between the wealthy and the less than wealthy. the mechanics that he used to organize them. >> i think that is a very interesting question. it is the case, one of the things that made socialism work in the way it has not worked since is their talent for organizing. their willingness to attend a lot of meetings and to develop a separate independent press. they were very strong critics in a way that sounds very modern and about the influence of big money on newspapers. they very much believed that there was no way people were going to hear the worker's side of the store or their side of the stories if they did not create their own alternative press. that was crucial. eugene debs was the exciting person who blew into town and

rallied the troops. it really involves a grass- roots progress and the attempt to win on a local level. the presidency was out of reach, but it was not impossible to get on a city council. >> to think about the time period, this was even before radio began. politics for americans and those days meant what in their lives? was it an activity to fill the evening in ways we do not appreciate today? >> sure. this was a period of enormous party loyalty. it was starting to fade -- >> also socialism. people would gather in the evening and listen to speeches. now we have lots of media in our lives and that sort of thing. >> there were many more newspaper sources, and they were much more barred. -- barbed and a little --

polemical. political unions have their own press. there was a much more complicated mix available to people in a print. >> while we are talking about media, will you talk about a publication for which eugene debs wrote frequently called "the appeal to reason." >> sure. my view of these came out for just a second. this is "the appeal to reason." it became the newspaper of the socialist party in 1901. it is one of the publications, many newspapers that would have existed in that time period where people would find out as much information as they could. upton sinclair's book, the first

time it was published was here in "the appeal to reason." many authors of the period would have written in this socialist party newspaper. >> i would like to read to you a statement that eugene debs made. after the election, he sent by -- after the 1912 election, he sent it by telegraph to be published the results of the election. he wrote "it is now certain that the socialist party has doubled its national vote. now that the battle as dollars, -- is ours, we must lose no time in preparing for the next. we are the only ones who came out with colors flying. the socialist party from now on is the party of the people. this young giant will make history in the next few years. soon after the democrats lose power, they will feel helplessness and thousands who voted their ticket will turn from them in disgust." how was he as a prognosticator? >> that was a poor prediction.

it began to fall right after that in terms of membership and never recovered the peak. >> why? >> one of the reasons was the wilson administration did just the opposite of what deb's predicted. it brought in a slate of reforms. hour controls for 8 hour day for railroad workers, some regulation of the banking system, some gesture for the right of unions to organize. these were only small steps toward what the socialists wanted, but enough to win along voters. >> let's take our next telephone call. is from portland, new york. this is sharon. >> i want to thank c-span for the wonderful series. i am enjoying it so much. i am wondering if your guests might comment on his early life, his formative years, and what his parents did for a living.

thank you very much. >> thank you. would you like to take that? >> do you know, i am not exactly sure i can remember what his father did for a living. they lived in terror hope. -- terre haute. i know he was a great idealist. debs himself -- his middle name is after victor hugo. it was a big part of his upbringing. >> i was just remembering that his father was kind of a processor of pork. he was ill. he could not do that work. there are reminiscences of him being depressed as a worker. his wife -- they had two small children. she was pregnant with eugene debs. they opened a small grocery in

the front of their house. he became a successful small grocer in terre haute. his dad was a grocer. one of eugene debs' first jobs was an accountant for the home and grocery line. he had experience with the family business. that enabled him to do that work. that was what his family -- that was where his family's income came from. >> why did he have to drop out of school at age 14? >> as i recall, i think it was not common for people to finish high school. he wanted to get a job on the railroad. the railroads were the newest and exciting thing for young men to get a part of. his first job was a paint scraper for the local railroad that was running through terre haute. it was later owned by william

keene. he was a paint scraper first. it was an exciting job in an era where people commonly did not finish high school. >> can either of you tell us about his marriage? >> that was always a source of controversy in the movement. he was deeply loyal to kate debs. it was pretty clear that she married him as an aspiring young grocer and congressman and not as a socialist. she has often spoken in favor of socialism publicly but not enthusiastically. she probably would have been happier if he had not pursued that life. it also kept him on the road most of the time. eugene debs was back in terre haute mostly to collapse upstairs and recover before he headed out on another campaign. she was left keeping the home

fires burning in this house. >> so kate spent a lot of time in the living room where we are in this house in terre haute. >> with these down and out railroad workers knocking on the door and hoping they could see their hero. >> did they have children? >> no. >> you said he traveled extensively and she chose not to do that? or was she not invited to come along? >> no. i don't know. >> let's take our next phone call. this is tom. here we are in your home town. have you been to this house? >> no, i have not. i work two blocks away from there so i have no excuse. thank you for a fantastic series. i would just like to make a quick comment because there are so many people across america who would love to be calling. i lucked out to do it. i want to say this. when the unions and socialism

came about because of the lack of benevolent employers -- i want to make one point. i live in colorado. i call on the mines of colorado. i used to drive through southern colorado on interstate 25. i would pass a town called ludlow. i would ask ms. phillips if she knows anything about the ludlow massacre. i am not sure when it happened. i am sure eugene debs was alive at the time. i will hang up now. please ponder what i have said, you moguls of america. we need jobs and we need them now. could you please tell us a little bit about the ludlow massacre in colorado?

>> the ludlow massacre and several other massacres and riots of the time period were often blamed on the striking workers at the time whether they were miners or whether they were protesting for their rights. what happened in ludlow that happened in other incidents is there would be federal troops or authorities brought in to quell the protest in workers. many of them would be killed. i cannot remember how many people died there, but in haymarket and other riots, in the homestead strike, several people would be killed. striking workers would be blamed for protesting. that is a reason why the knights of labor went by the

wayside because they were blamed for the a market riot that caused the deaths of several people. it was an incident to where striking workers were killed and where people -- the strikers themselves were blamed unfortunately for that. i think to get to the caller's original point, what eugene debs actually wanted was a return to the benevolent employer. he had been friends with some that owned the railroad that came through there who he supported when they had the best interest of terre haute in mind. it was when they brought in what they called heavy capitalists, and when they tried banking relationships with people out east that eugene debs started to break his ties with smaller business terre haute owners in terre haute and

started criticizing them toward their need for profit. it was not small business that he originally was against. it was the for-profit motive that drove those small businessmen to become business moguls and create conditions that caused the ludlow massacre when they think they had no other choice but to strike. >> were the socialists all across the united states or was it a regional phenomenon? >> no, it was all across the united states. here in the midwest, also out west -- especially with the western federation of miners -- they were big supporters of the socialist party. they were mostly out west, oklahoma, the midwest, places like new york on the east coast

were the strongholds of the socialist party. they grew support from rural americans, from urban areas like chicago and new york, from western coal miners. they drew support from lots of people who were similarly negatively affected by this rise of corporate capitalism. >> did you have a thought you wanted to add? >> i think rather than moving toward more benevolent employers, i don't think he believed that was possible at this point. rather than ending monopoly capitalism and going back to small-scale capitalism, socialists were interested in arguing that business will get bigger and bigger. the important thing is for it to be run by the people rather than individuals for private gain. this was a much more radical proposition as a way to solve the problem. there were many of people including capitalists who were

engaged in trying to soften the hard edges of the industrial revolution that was going on. andrew carnegie with his gospel of wealth suggested that there needed to be more benevolent moguls. eugene debs said that is not the problem. we need to continue to build monopolies and take them for the people. >> we are following eugene debs at his home in terre haute in our series, "the contenders." will hit 14 men who tried for the presidency and lost some of change in american history. we have 90 minutes tonight to learn more about this period of time. his five runs for the presidency were from 1900 until 1920. our two guests are here. our next phone call is from and then they'll come of va., outside of washington. this is john. >> hi. wonderful program. thanks to c-span. i was intrigued by the comment

that teddy roosevelt said that eugene debs was the most dangerous man in a america or something to that effect. teddy roosevelt himself is known as if trustbuster, as breaking up standard oil. it seemed that they would have some things in common. i wondered if your guest could comment on that. >> very good question. roosevelt said, we need to take the same part of the eugene debs and adopt it, with him and his interest and taking over private industry and try to run it democratically. this was a crazy idea that would undermine one of the pillars of american democracy with private property and free enterprise. on the other hand, he was well aware of the growing concern among workers as well as the

middle-class about the problems of big business. roosevelt argued that it was important to take the good ideas, the things that we now have inherited from the socialist movement in many ways that we have been talking about and to adopt those. these became an important part of his progressive party platform. they were part of the reform agenda for the roosevelt -- wilson administration. he said eugene debs was to stir up class workers against their masters in a sense. what he wanted to do was to socialize the country in a different way without socialism. >> do you have more to add on that question? >> i might be remembering this wrong. i do not think teddy roosevelt supported nationwide strikes that happened with pullman. that seemed very dangerous to

presidents who were in charge of making sure the country ran smoothly. any time you saw a case where there was a strike by a national labor union that disrupted the growth of something as crucial as mail, that would put them on opposite sides of the divider and how strong you should be in order to stop business from functioning. >> another topic altogether to understand socialist thinking in the early 20th century, what about the intersection between socialist thinking and religion? >> a very large number of socialist were religious, especially in the south and in oklahoma, texas, there was a strong party there. it was a very strong movement in what was called the social gospel or social christianity. many of those people were

supporters of eugene debs. he considered churches to be the enemy, sort of part of the apparatus of press workers -- particularly the catholic church. he claimed never to go into a church. many christians felt that he and his humanitarian compassion for workers really exemplified just a tremendous number of people over the course of his career said, i don't know what he believes, but he is the most christlike person that i know. his compassion for the underdog is the essence of christianity. this is an important distinction between the eugene debs movement and the communist movement that comes after it. not everybody in the socialist

movement was a believer by any means, but it was something where that was an important part of the mix. >> if you signed your name into a card that said you were a member of the socialist party in this time period, what does that mean the core of your beliefs were? >> that the most important struggle was a struggle between the working class and the owning class. this was inevitably going to result in a victory for the working class as a necessary next step and the evolution of history and for american socialists i think a necessary next step to realize or protect the principles of the american revolution and the dignity of individuals. and 5 lead in their ability to dissipate heat fully in the economy. -- and body and their ability to

offer to serve a fully in the economy. >> so they thought of themselves as patriots. we have touched on that theme before. he spoke of abraham lincoln and also some of the founding fathers in his writings. he saw himself as an extension of early roots of american history. >> defining the important movers and shakers as being radicals, history is driven forward by people -- he would point back to jesus, to socrates, to thomas jefferson, john brown, wendell phillips. history moves forward by people who start off with an idea that seems deeply unpopular, but that is the next step for moral revolution. >> this is chris on the line. >> thank you for the conversation. it is a great surprise see on television tonight. i was wondering if you could comment on the relationship with industrial workers of the world. and with a general strike in

seattle. >> he was a founding member of the iww that started in 1905. they were a clearly industrial union movement. it was juxtaposed against the american federation of labor which is more of a craft skills worker based union. the iww was a movement among the working class of people. in its size, it is not as nationalistic. it sought to work with workers in other countries. spain, france, italy, and it is a part of -- it never came to be, but they saw themselves as part of the workers' movement with fighters fighting worldwide in not just in the united states. it was eugene debs' later interpretation of what had to

be done to promote the rights of workers not only in the united states but in other places in the world as well. >> was he affiliated with them throughout his life? >> no, there was a split -- it was kind of complicated. there was a split in the iww or the socialist party -- there was a split in the socialist party that affected the iww. he remained very much -- he supported the iww but took less of a leadership position. haywood took over the iww plan and took it in a different position. >> i think one of the most important breaks was over the issue of violence or sabotage.

this was a tough bunch in a very tough environment working in mines and lumber fields. they argued that there were times in order to advance their cause, they needed to use sabotaging or other forms of violence to fight back. >> did eugene debs agree with that? >> he did not agree with that. he was not a pacifist. he recognized there were times when he needed to use violence, but he felt the strategy of advocating violence was not appropriate for american democracy and workers all was lost when they tried violence. most of the power to spread violence belonged to the state. >> next up is minneapolis. hi, ken. >> thank you c-span for this wonderful series. i work in public radio. a little bit earlier your scholars were talking about

eugene debs and media. in new york city, there is or was a famous radio station named wevd, named for eugene debs that debuted in the early 1920's. it was one of the first non- commercial listeners supported radio stations. given his name in the call letters, i am wondering if he had any involvement with the radio station. >> thank you. his demise was in 1926, radio just beginning to come on the scene as a median. did he -- >> as far as i know, it is an homage to him, but he had no connection. >> lisa, we only have 35 minutes left already. this program is going by quickly. a question for you about eugene debs if you can answer it, if he were to walk in this room -- we are surrounded by images all over.

can you give us a sense about how tall a man he was. was the slight? give us the personal glimse of him if you can. >> as far as i know, i think he was 6 foot 2 inches or 6 foot 3 inches, i am not sure if that is correct. >> that is about right. >> he was very thin. he was lanky. you can see that in the pictures. he was that way from his youth on. he was a commanding figure, but not burly i guess you could say. >> he told me he was an advocate of the temporary eating fads of the day. early holistic health. can you tell us a little about that? >> he was often ill. it was hard to pin down what the problem was. some have suggested that it was

a nervous exhaustion from the hard campaigns. the stress that he was under. he would often retreat to try to recover. he would find himself to the sanitariums where he would experiment with walnuts and a ketchup diet and sleeping with his head oriented toward the north and these sorts of things. he would write letters back to his brother suggesting that these things were working out great for him. >> switching gears here in our time period as the nation began to march toward world war i, what happened to the labor union -- what happened to the labor movement as all of this turmoil was making these big decisions about its role in that? >> when the war first broke out in europe, most americans, workers and otherwise, were very determined to keep out war. they were isolationists, especially in the midwest. in the south, they said god give us the atlantic ocean for a

very good reason. that is to not get involved in the european war. very large immigrant groups were divided about the conflict overseas, but did not want to participate helping the other side. there was a strong push for neutrality and initially really until things escalated out of he was a negotiator for peace. just weeks after being inaugurated for a second term, he started to move the country to war. >> i want to show our viewers the book. we are getting into your subject area. in 1917, congress passed a law

about the war. would you tell our viewers what the law was? >> it is called the espionage act. it was never used to convict any spies during the war. there were german spies, but there were also provisions that allow for the government to have that tremendous control over the center. the postmaster was given the power to ban any publication not considered supportive of the war. anyone who was deemed to say anything that was discouraging of the war effort was liable to a $10,000 fine and 10 to 20 years in prison. >> first amendment challenges all over this. >> debs was one of the important test cases. about 1200 people were convicted under this espionage act.

>> and went to prison? >> and were sent to prison. the supreme court unanimously supported it at that point. >> he began to be anti-war at what point? >> he was not a pacifist. there is a class struggle where it might make sense to take up arms. he considered the war in europe to be a clash between competing empires over colonies and the only people that would benefit -- there was a lot of money to be made, but the working people were going to suffer. that was the socialists' position. when the war broke out, when wilson and congress moved to war, the socialists gathered a few days later in st. louis and

passed a proclamation vowing that they were going to fight the war rhetorically in every possible way. they would fight the draft. a number of socialists broke from the party at that point. upton sinclair felt as if that was the wrong move. others worried that the party would be destroyed by this. it would be labeled unamerican. quite a number of the party felt it was a stand they needed to take. >> we will take a call from nashville, tennessee. your question, please. >> thank you for your discussion tonight. >> thank you for watching. >> unfortunately, socialism means there is a group involved

in the central planning of our economy or society. that leads itself to a small group to decide how citizens should behave. socialism, wonderful in its ideals, it does not actually exist. i believe that james madison described it correctly. we are in competition with each other. that is what leads to individual freedom. central planning leads to a small group. it just leads to someone in a small group [unintelligible] -- calling who wins and who

loses. >> that was not too far off from his position. he was arguing that the central planners of his day were the large business owners. they had a lot of political power and influence and were the central planners of the economy. he would have been with you on that. he wanted there to be a more diverse group of people, working people, who had a role in the planning of the economy and how wealth was distributed. he was against the central planning that was being done by very wealthy americans and business owners. >> in the interest of time, we were talking about the draft, but i want to go on to his position on the draft and his famous speech in ohio.

it was the speech that ended up having debs arrested -- the working class have never yet had a voice in declaring war or making peace. if war is right, let it be declared by the people. when he made that speech, did he know that he was going to jail? likely. he knew that there were federal agents, stenographers taking down what he had to say. i think he gave a number of speeches along the same lines and had not been arrested. he said at the start of the speech, i need to be careful what i say. i know that i am being watched. the audience fully understood the situation. he spent a lot of time in that speech announcing the fact that

many of his comrades were already in prison. if they are guilty, i am guilty, he said. >> what was the trial like? was it a big national event? >> it certainly was. it was in cleveland. he got an opportunity to make two very powerful speeches about socialism. in front of a national audience. his lawyers hope to get him off on a technicality. there were also making a very strong free speech argument in his defense. he felt the system was rigged and in the pockets of big business. it was more important for him to take this opportunity to win a propaganda coup for socialism. >> he ultimately was sentenced to 10 years. you said the possible terms were up to twenty.

>> it is hard to say that he got a break. he was an older man and not in good health. when he went off to prison, many people assumed that if we did not get out, he would have died. >> about 20 minutes left -- we are going to take a couple of calls and talk about his 1920 campaign. oklahoma, donna, go ahead, please. >> i am so happy to hear this program. i cannot tell you how grateful i am to have this over the air. a little comment about colorado. i have a very good friend and she talked about her parents being part of what happened there. i was going on a road trip with my son, she told me to look for a sign just north of trinidad. all it will say is "this is the place."

that is the place where my friend's mom and dad had shots fired all around them and they were running for their lives. the second thing i would like to say is about upton sinclair. upton sinclair was arrested for reading the constitution to the dock workers. that began the southern california aclu. the third comment is -- i have moved back to oklahoma, i been gone for about 50 years. i lived here as a teenager. i went to a labor rally in support of the wisconsin public employees. i was on the state capital steps.

a friend of mine sat next to me with a little sign in latin. she told me that it was the oklahoma state motto. it was from a socialist desire. labor conquers all. now we are the reddest state in the union, which is kind of an ironic thing. >> thank you for your comments. we will take a telephone call from eric in los angeles. >> i also am enjoying the program. i think that eugene v. debs tried to keep us to our ideals. my question is about job harriman, a christian socialist who ran on the ticket with debs in 1900. later, he was involved with the trials of the mcnamara brothers, who were accused of using sabotage to further their cause.

i know that debs defended in print the mcnamaras. i wondered if they could comment on that. thank you. >> is this a period of his life that you can fill us in on? >> i do not know enough about it. i do know that clarence darrow was a big part of using the defense in 1894. i do not know enough about job harriman to comment on his involvement. >> debs did not intend to justify the dynamiting of the building. it was the center of a tremendous anti-labor, anti-

socialist at that point. he believed that the mcnamaras were innocent. much of his defense of them was based on believing that this was a false charge. >> the second sentencing was under the espionage act. he made a speech at his sentencing. one of his quotes are among his most famous. it is -- he went to prison and in the 1920 campaign -- which he decided to take part in. can you tell me how he campaigned for president from his prison cell in atlanta? how did he do that? >> he was not allowed.

it was an awkward situation for the federal government because he was a seditionist. he was also a legitimate candidate from a legitimate party. they allowed him to give a little speech, the socialists did. then the government allowed them only to campaign by submitting eight 500-word letters to the press over the course of the campaign. he was spending the campaign relying on his party to go out and spread the word. > > you have a campaign buttons. >>yes, it is.

>> it is very small, what does it say? >> it says, "convict for president." it is one of the most famous campaign buttons in u.s. history. >> he managed to garner nearly 1 million votes. how did he do that? >> he did that because he had such a national following. it was 1920, and he had been in the national newspapers for many years. people knew of his message. labor unions continued to support him. despite the fact that he was accused of encouraging people not to enlist in the military during world war i, he still had a following. they believed in his message. he did that because of his national reputation. >> what were some of the other themes of the 1920 campaigns? >> this is a vote for free

speech. this was an opportunity for all americans to cast a vote in protest against the wilson administration. all of the actions done by mob violence. not just socialists, but pacifists of all kinds. during war fever, many americans who thought maybe that was a good idea, started to reconsider that. there were supported by a small group of people who became the american civil liberties union. there were only about 100,000 socialists by this point. i think the number is something in the 20 or 30,000. he got 1 million votes. some of those people were

socialists, but a lot of those people were voting for free speech. >> indiana, this is dave. >> how are you? >> great, thanks. here we are in your town. do you have a question about one of your famous citizens? >> i am a graduate of indiana state university. what was his impact on the university? did debs have an influence on the development of the university? >> i do not know, and that is a great question. i do not know if eugene v. debs had any kind of influence on indiana state. i am curious not to find out.

>> syracuse, new york, go ahead, please. >> i am a uaw worker from upstate new york. i think the problem was that at the time you had eugene debs, -- you got the socialist party and had the socialist workers party and you had the american federation of labor. they never saw eye to eye. you never had a unified worker'' movement in this country. that was his problem. he was never able to achieve this goal. thank you very much. >> the caller is absolutely right. it continues among the president day with the split.

debs was after a working-class movement where you erase the lines that divided skilled workers from unskilled workers. the american federation of labor was very tightly organized. it was a very different kind of approach towards representing working-class interest. they did not see eye-to-eye continuing into the 1930's. >> debs campaigning for president can 1920. during the wilson administration, twice he putr clemancy papers.

why did wilson say no? >> it is a little complicated. wilson was open to the idea initially, it seems. as a way to clear the air. he had a stroke. he seemed to lose his moral compass, many people felt. this was an obvious gesture of goodwill that he might make. he heard from a lot of soldiers and their families that debs was a traitor. it was not just the government who considered him and others to have crossed a line. he was the embodiment of that dissent. >> was there a movement to keep debs in jail? >> they said this was their priority number one. keep debs in prison. the ku klux klan was emerging at this point and they considered debs and the other radicals that it was important that they stay in prison. there was a lot of pressure on

the president. not a lot of political gain, in his judgment, to release. >> how did he secure an early release? >> wilson left office and the process of putting pressure on the president began again with warren harding. people in the amnesty movement were a lot less optimistic. harding was a republican who seemed to have less motivation. there were plenty of socialists that supported wilson. it seemed like wilson would be the ones to let the socialists out of prison. harding, he campaigned on the idea of returning the country to a pre-war normalcy, to stop these tensions. the amnesty movement was not just the election, but it was a huge movement. there were petitions being gathered on the streets all across the country.

they would have to bring the petitions in on the back of a pickup truck to deliver to the white house. many people from across the united states -- george bernard shaw, hg wells, helen keller -- many people were involved in this movement to get the prisoners out. for harding, he had no interest in inheriting this mess. he waited a little while, and then he let him out of prison. >> he invited him to the white house. >> that is right. >> and he went? >> yes. what do we know about that meeting? >> neither one of them said anything about it. harding said something like, i'm so damn glad to meet you.

it was a christmas afternoon meeting, i guess. debs said, harding seems like a very nice man. i believe he said, you know, the president asked me to cut down on my rhetoric, but i have no intention of doing that. he got back on the train. >> you are looking at some rare footage. debs coming out of the white house and speaking to the media after his meeting with the president. he lived until 1926. we have about 10 minutes left. let's get a couple of calls. michigan, james, you are on the air. >> is it ok if i ask two questions? >> go ahead. >> let's move on, please. our time is short.

our next call is from charleston, south carolina. >> i want to know if you think the movement could exist in modern day america with the development of global capitalism? what do you think debs would think about the tea party movement? thank you. >> this is always a tough thing, for historians to project what the character might think today. do you want to take a stab at it? >> it needs to be done with real caution. global capitalism is not something new. that was very much an issue with the flow of immigrants and worldwide nature of capitalism. we overstate the global nature of the economy that we live in now. as far as the tea party goes,

lisa? >> he would not have been in agreement with the tea party support of big business. that is the simplest way i can put it. i do not know -- his message still resonates with us today. we're still facing some of the same problems that he was fighting against as a result of workers' wages being driven down by the policies of multinational corporations. not just in the u.s., but worldwide. he would've had a lot to say about the same types of things that had escalated from his period until today. i am sure he would be against the negative impact of multinational corporations globally. >> you have a final artifact for us. look at the size of those.

why don't i have you help us finish out our program? how is he viewed by the labor movement today? how do they look back on his time and his contribution? >> i just attended a banquet last week put on by the debs foundation. danny glover was in attendance. everybody remembers him for being a spokesperson for the working class. he continues to carry that legacy for workers in this country and beyond. he certainly resonates around the country. >> as we think about his final years, i was showing you "time" magazine, the 1926 obituary. here is what they wrote.

a month ago, he went to a sanitarium, where he died, at age 71. what were his final years like after prison? how important a voice was he in the last few years? >> he spent the rest of his life trying to rebuild the socialist party. that was both a self-inflicted wound because the socialist party had a bitter split over communism. it was very difficult thing for the communists were trying to convince him to join them. he was the country's most famous, most high-profile and

beloved radical and the have him on board. he was very enthusiastic about the bolshevik revolution, but he refused to sign on with the communists, objecting to the idea of a dictatorship and to some of the methods of the bolsheviks. party. much of the young energy had gone into the communist party. meanwhile, the party had been smashed by legal attacks, as war. he tried to rebuild the party those years without a whole lot of success. >> he is buried here in indiana. we have some video of his grave site and we will look at that as we listen to our next caller from new york city. >> what was eugene v. debs's view on the russian revolution?

did he visit russia at teihis time? marxism during this time period? >> he did not visit russia. there was an attempt to get him to go to russia. the bolsheviks considered him to be an american hero. he was an admirer of the bolshevik revolution. the things they did were not appropriate for american socialism. experienced, he still believed in american democracy and still believed the way forward for american workers was to organize in unions and to support the socialist party. >> it is great to have people locally participating. this is todd.

>> i would like to thank you for this program. for lisa, who i understand is a member of the foundation, i would like her to address his continuing legacy toward peacae, equality and social justice and let people know how they might pursue their interests if they about it. >> certainly. in this age of technology, there is a web site devoted to the foundation. that is an easy way to access more information. he continues to provide inspiration to working people.

here and throughout the u.s. as they struggle today. >> this house is open for visitors. how many do you get every year? >> i do not know the numbers and how many people we have every kw many numbers we get. it is open every afternoon of the weekend on saturdays. you can go to the website and contact karen brown. >> another great resource is indiana state university's collection. it has great images and pamphlets and access to his letters. >> and your book. andt is about eugene deb his campaign for president in his final years. thank you to both of you for

being with us in indiana and telling us more about this third party, five time pursuer of the white house and his effect on american history. debsfoundation.org is there website. the cunningham memorial library at university and our affiliate time warner cable. thank you for putting this program together. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> profiles of the key figures

to a run for president and lost but changed political history. i looked continues next friday. we will be here in washington talking with historians and taking your calls about the presidential campaign of charles evans hughes. live every friday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. you can see tonight on eugene debs on sunday at 10:30 a.m. eastern. for more information on our series, go to our website. he will find a schedule of the series, biographies of the candid is, appraisals and a portions of some speeches. it is all that c-span.org. >> the return -- retirement ceremony for admiral mike mullen. after that, a briefing on the debt of anwar.

then a discussion on the job opportunities for veterans. >> the supreme court will hear oral arguments on whether states can be sued for failing to pay medicaid. here's similar case from 1990 arguing that states cannot be sued by a private party to enforce medicate compliance. >> it may be helpful to return to the language of the statute. that's specifies that a state medicaid plan must provide the payment of raids -- rates. >> listen to seize band radio at 90.1 fm. >> president obama announced the death of anwar at a ceremony as

the joint chiefs of staff chairman and honoring outgoing chairman mike mullen. the president praised him for his leadership and credited his testimony on don't ask, don't tell for changing the policy on gays in the military. he called on americans to do more to help returning war veterans and urged business owners to hire them. he has served in the navy since 1968. this is about an hour and 40 minutes. good morning, ladies and gentleman and welcome to be honorarium of admiral michael mullen. [military orders]

>> moving on to theield is the commander of troops, the old guard.

>> please sta for the arrival of the official party.

ladies and tell mike, the vice president of the united states -- these and gentlemen. official,viewing admiral mike mullen. a copy by the host, the honorable leon panetta, secretary of defense -- accompanied by the host. and general martin e. dempsey.

>> present. ♪ [band plays] the president of the united states. ["hail to the chief" plays]

ladies and gentlemen, please remain standing for the invocation. plays]

[military orders]

>> let us pray. eternal father, we praise you and thank you it's subtle presence -- your eternal presence touches us this morning. thank you for your leadership, guidance, and direction that admiral mullen has given to this great nation. we thank you for having stood next to this great leader as

led hundreds of thousands of our most treasured puncher man and woma through two major conflicts. we ask you for a special blessing, a blessing upon admiral mullen. such service has meant sacrifices, chief of which has been the long separations from home, family, and friends. we rejoice with him on this day. we pray that the lord will be with him. life has advance the well-being of soldiers, coastguardsman, and marines, and the loving admilies -- his wife has event vanced. as new beginnings jones them into other aspects of life, maybe a short of lasting friendships and support. maybe no the many continued

blessings of health, happiness, and peace. we ask this in your holy name, amen. please be seated. [band plays]

[navy band plays]

[navy band plays]

[applause]

[military orders] > >> ready, one. [navy band plays] [military orders] >> the united states navy band.

elements of the armed forces include the presidential rching platoon, led by captain matthew hernandez. the united states marine honor guard. sergeant robert martinez. the colors have been one of the most important elements. armed forces color guard. an element from the navy honor guard led by lt. andrew jefferson. united

states air force honor guard. technical sergeant kelly mckinley. first-class petty officer michael soufra. the old guard fife and drum corps. resistance or the reverse colors of their infantry unit. they maintain this tradition by wearing traditional red coats. major william white. 56 flags of the united states. army maj james stolk. air force major john pilon. [applause]

>> ladies and gentlemen, please stand for the advancing of the colors and the playing of the national anthem. [military ords]

>> forward. [navy band plays]

["star-spangledanner" plays]

>> please be seated. >> flag, order.

flag. flag. ready. >> ready. >> ceremonial. >> defense distinguished service medal is awarded to mike m ullen. animal mullen-- admiral mullen distinguish himself during an increasingly dynamic time in our nation's history. he advise the president,

secretary of defense, and national security staff, providing strategic direction to the armed forces. he oversaw multiple sustained joint military operations disrupt terrorist networks, and improve the security and stability in iraq. he worked to expand counterinsurgency pabilities while bolstering ties in pakistan as that region became the central effort. admiral mullen initiate a dialogue to advance support for warriors. the distinctive accomplishments, make a long and distinguished career and reflect great credit

upon himself, the united states navy, and the department of defense. [applause] he is also receiving the distinguished service medals from the army, navy, air force, and coast guard. the department of defense not offer distinguished public service is presented to debra mullen. she met with a host of spouses at arms services installations in order to better understand and drive progress on the issues that affected the quality of life. the depth of the compassion and common sense and energy she employed on behalf of wounded

d injured warriors and the families of the followed as well as female homeless veterans was indispensable. she served as an ambassador of goodwill for the united states for visits to countries across the globe. e will brew remembered for grace and kindness. her warmth and charm greatly contributed to the worldwide acclaim enjoyed by the department of defense and the united states military. her willingness to give of yourself improve the lives of others improved beyond military spouses. the distinctive accomplishments reflect great credit upon herself and the department of defense. she gave voice to those who could not speak for themselves. she gstrength to those who work flagging. no problem on their behalf was

too big to handle. she will be missed by all those lives that she touched and souls that she comforted. [applause] >> flag. [military oers] >> ladies and gentlemen, please stand for the

posting of the colors. >> hon guard. [band plays]

[military orders] [military orders] [band plays] >> fg. [military orders] >> please be seated.

>> flag, ready. >> ready. [military orders] >> ceremonial. >> ceremonial. [military orders] >> ladies and gentlemen, the secretary of defense. [applause] >> mr. president, mr. vice presidents, the sting which guests, ladies and gentlemen. it is indeed privilege for me to be able to honor two very

special persons and two very special human beings. thank you all for being here, help pay tribute to animal mike mullen for is more than four decades of service to our nation and to help recognize general main dempsey for once again ented the country's call as he takes on the new leadership role as chairman. but first of all, none of us in public service could do these jobs without the love and support of our families. i want to extend my deepest thanks to the animal mullen's family, his wife deborah -- to admiral mullen's family, his

wife deborah. now serving with the fleet. i want to recognize general than see's family -- generalempsey 's family. they also follow it into their fathers' footsteps and became soldiers. it is truly inspiring to see the same commitment to serve this nation, passing to a new generation of leaders who will follow in the footsteps of their fathers. the route my long career in public service -- the route my long career, i've had the distinct honor to serve with a vast array of immensely

talented people and impressive leaders. but for me, admiral mullen will always stand apart in a special place. his leadership, his influence, his honest candor, his straight talk, his compassion and his outspoken concern forur troops and for their families have set him apart and he has set exceptionally high standard for the role of chairman of the joint chiefs. he has defined the role of the 21st century chairman of the joint chiefs. part warrior, part diplomats, , spokesman,r spoke,

leader. it's career is exampled dogged persistence and hard work. -- his career is an example of dogged persistence and hard work. [applause] >> i think most of them are here. most >> of them will not have predicted that mike would have lasted five years in the navy alone rise to the pinnacle of himilitary profession. in the fleet and seeing combat in vietnam, mike was taken by the

navy and the navy was taken by mike. thanks in part to great people who saw his deep inner strength and his leadership qualities. he flourished, rising to command, u.s. double forces in europe, sir ring as the 20th chief of naval operations. mike came the job of chairman and a critical time for our military and for our country. we faced hard fighting and heavy casualties in iraq as the surge troops battled it determined insurgency. afghanistan was slippingway as the taliban expanded its presence throughout the country. our military forces,

particularly the ground troops, were under tremendous strain deployment after deployment after deployment. he was determined to preserve the help of our all-volunteer force, even in the face of the unrelenting demands from these wars. he saw what t repeated to performance or doing to america's finest, our young men and women, exhausted. wounded warriors returning home bearing the scars of war. and those bearing and seemed scars forever changed by the horrors they witnessed. mike saw before many others that the war in afghanistan needed more attention, more resources, and a new approach. we all agreed deal to his vision, his determination, his

dedication, and his tireless work as a military diplomat to route the region. i'm personally honored by the fact that the operation that took down bin laden could not have been done without mike's support and without his cooperation. he also made extraordinary progress on asian-pacific matters. he worked to prevent a dangerous escalation in the conflict of the peninsula of the korean peninsula. helped our allied forge closer ties. the repeal of don't ask don't tell. at the moment in time when few thought it was possible, in his courageous testimony and leadership on this issue were

major factors in bringing about this important change. his courage and his honesty achieved what was -- what will be forever known as a milestone in the history of equal rights for all. mike tells it like it is an frankly, that is a rare quality inhis town. at a dinner this week, i was remind by mike his father was a hollywood publicist. as i thought about it, i stated that mike in many ways represented the culmination of all of the qualities from the wizard of oz. great brain, a great heart, and great courage. sometimes a little wizardry behind the curtain to get things done.

it's time to say a few words about his dorothy, the more kabul woman who was been by his side since his first day in 1967 and an army-navy game, his wife deborah. both of them came from show business family is. her mother was a dancer from australia. i know the love of the theater continues today and hopefully they will now have some time to enjoy that. deborahas been a steadfast and tireless advocate for more and better resources to care for our wounded warriors and their families. she's been at the forefront of issuesonfronting military families, spousal employment, homelessness, survivors' benefits, education, posttraumatic stress, and no one has done more to bring to light

the special challenges being faced by military children, whom she would have often noted labor under a special kind of fear. as only a military spouse could do, she was a powerful voice for our families. deborah, you are a national treasure and the country owes you a profound debt of gratitude. [applause] the good thing is that today we will move from one extraordinarily decent human being to another in the role of chairman. up from the roots of an irish family from bayonne, new jersey, marty truly, from the grassroots.

he knows about people. he knows about hard work. he knows about sacrifice. having worked with him over these past few months, i can say that the president made a truly inspired choice in picking him to serve as the next chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. he brings a keen intellect, proven leadership, strategic vision, and humanity to the critical post. and he tells it like it is as well, only with an irish smile. his strategic this is the right one for this time of transition, as we craft a joint force that can defeat the wide range of security threats that we face in the world today and in the future. at this time of budget constraints, he will be a great partner in maintaining the best defense force in the world.

i know that both the president and i look really benefit from your advice and counsel. i am delighted that your wife is joining our team. she is the real -- she is a real friend to military families and i know that you will continue to champion the cause of military families. as the new secretary of defense, i am supremely confident of the future. we have the strongest military force in our history and in the history of the world. and it is strong, exactly because we can replace one great warrior with another. the men and women in uniform are the greatest asset we have. they are our greatest strength. we celebrate the strength today

by honoring these two great leaders. is my privilege to introduce another great leader who cares greatly about our men and women in uniform. ladies and gentlemen, our commander in chief, president of the united states, and barack obama. [applause] thank you very much. secretary panetta, thank you for your introduction and for your extraordinary leadership. members of congress, by presidt biden, -- vice- president biden, stingless guests -- sting was aghast -- distinguished guests.

want to acknowledge your son jack who is deployed today. of you have performed extraordinary service to our country. want to say a few words about some important news. earlier thisorning, anwar al- awlaki, was killed in yemen. [applause] the death --the death is a major blow to al qaeda'most- actis operational of cilia. he was the leader of the external operations for al qaeda in the arabian peninsula. he took the lead in planning and directing efforts to murder innocent americans. he directed a failed attempt to blow up an airplane on christmas day in 2009.

he directed a failed attempt to block u.s. cargolanes in 2010. he repeatedly called on inviduals to kill innocent men, women, and children to advance the murders agenda. the death of anwar al-awlaki marks another significant milestone to defeat al qaeda and its affiliates. the success is a tribute to our intelligence community and to the efforts of yemen and its security forces who have worked closely with the united states over the course of several years. his organization has been responsible for the deaths of many yemenis citizens. this has been rejected by the vast majority of muslims and people of all faiths. the governor and people of yemen have joined

in a common effort against al qaeda. al qaeda in the arabian peninsula remains a dangerous terrorist organization. we will remain vigilant against any threat to the united states or our allies and partners. this is further proof that al qaeda and its affiliates will find no safe haven anywhere in the world. working with yemen and our other allies and partners, we will be delivered and we will be relentless and resolute in our commitment to destroy it terrorist networks that aim to kill americans. we will build a world in which people can live in greater peace, prosperity, and security. advancing that security has been of the man wek honor day. he got out to a somewhat shaky

start. he was a young ensign commanding a small tanker, 23 years old, when the collided with a bulloy. you're on a ship, audit with anything is not a good thing -- colliding with anything is not a good thing. i tell the story because mike still did himself. he has always understood that the true measure of our success is not whether we stumble. is whether we pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off and got the job. whether the matter the storm that, are as a, we chart our course and keep our eyes fixed on the horizon and take care of those around us, because we all rise and fall together. that is the story of mike

mullen. th's the story of america and the spirit that we celebrate today. if there is a threat to register his olestra's career, it is his sense of stewardship. the understanding that as leaders, our time at the helm is but a moment in the life of our nation. the humility which says the institution and people entrusted to our care look to us, yet they did not belong to us. the sense of responsibility we have to pass them safer and stronger to those who follow. as you look back to your four years as chairman and your four decades in uniform, be assured -- our military is stronger and our nation is moreecure because of the service that you have rendered. [applause]

today we have renewed american leadership in the world. we have strengthened our alliances including nato. we all leing again in asia and we forged a new treaty russia. every american can be grateful to admiral mullen, as am i, is critical role in these achievements. today we see the remarkable achievements of our 9/11 generation of service members. they have given arakis a chance to determine their own future. they pushed the taliban and other afghan strongholds and put al qaeda on the path to defeat. well, our forces have responded to sudden crisis with compassion as in haiti and with precision

as in libya. there will be long remembered that ourroops that these tasks on animal mullen -- admiral mullen's leadership. our soldiers, afford to sure deployments, wartime with their families, and moreime training for future missions. despite the stresses anstrains of a hard decade of war, the military that admiral mullen passes on is the best that it has ever been. today, our military draws its strength from more members of our of american families. soon all women will report to duty on our submarines. truck service members who are gay and lesbian no longer have to lie to serve the country that

they love. tipping point towards is progress came when the 17th chairman of the joint chiefs of staff when before congress and told the nation that it was the right thing to do. your legacy will indoor in a military that is stronger but also in a nation that is more just. f [applause] finally, in every discussion i've ever had with mike, one thing has always been foremost in his mind -- the lives of our men and women in uniform. i ve seen it in the quiet moments with our wooded warriors. sought that day in the situation room as we held our breath for the safe return of our forces who delivered justice to osama bin laden.

i saw it at dover as we honored our fallen heroes in the final journey home. you have to fill out the pledge you made at the beginning, to represent our troops with unwavering dedication. and so was deborah. thank you for four decades of service -- we thank her for kindness, her jealous, her grace under pressure. she is an extraordinary woman, mike. both lucky to have married up. [applause] now the mantle of leadership passes to general martin dempsey, the most respected generals. thank you, your wife, chris,

making, and caitlin -- megan, entering the call to serve once more. curtail panetta, we of one of our finest public servants -- in secretary panetta, we have one of the finest public servants. and the new vice chairman rubout a team where both the chairman and vice-chairman will have the experience of leading combat operations in the years since 9/11. leon, marty, ash, sandy, men and women of this department both uniformed and civilian, we still of much to do, bring the rest of our troops home from iraq this year, two trends is the two afghan lead to their own security, from defeating al

qaeda, tour most solid of obligations, taking care of our forces bridget to our most solemn of obligations. none of this will be ey. let me s this as clearly as i can. will be guided by the mission we ask of our troops and the capabilities they need to succee we will maiain our military superiority. we'll never wavered in defense of our country, our citizens, or our national security interests. the united states of america and our armed forces will remain the greate force for freedom and security that the world has ever known. this is who we are, as americans. this is to we must always be, as we salute mike mullen as an exemplar of this spirit.

salute him for a life of patriotic service as we continue his legacy to keep the country that we love safe and as we renewed the source of american strength here home and around the world. mike, thank you, from a grateful nation. [applause] >> ceremonial. >> ceremonial. [military orders]

>> ladies and gentlemen, admiral mullen. [applause] >> thank you. mr. president, mr. vice president, secretary panetta, general dempsey, distinguished guests, people i've worked so hard with, many of whom have become great friends -- the general from russia, general richards from the u.k., of from denmark, family and