transition and moved from equipments in goods and training, and i just want to ask a question in that regard, and also make an aside that, you know, in 2010, we with held 15% of merida funds with compliances and basic human rights. i want to ask you gsh r -- i'll jump to this -- what extent t people in local communities, indoing nows community -- indigenous communities feel comfortable going to the police to report crimes? >> congressman, obviously, it depends upon the community, and there is a difference between the military and the police. the military does not tend to be local. they obviously have it from somewhere else for the mission of whatever duration. the police is local, and are members of the community. in some communities in mexico,

the community is uncomfortable reaching out to the authorities seeing them as part of the problem rather than part of the solution. in hers, i suspect that is different. one ning that i would -- one thing i would suggest to you fairly strongly, however, is since the merida initiative, more mexican communities have seen their law enforcement and military as part of the solutn rather than the problem than they did before merida. >> thank you. i just want to follow-up, too. w have women been impacted by the violence the drug cartels, and by cases also like inez and valetina, the very forces there to protect them harmed them and then ignored allegations of rape. >> two part answer and two part question in my jument. women have bee inordinately affected by drug cartels 234 their attempts to intimidate through violence, extortion and

through threats the communities and the institutions becae of the belief that by threatening the female population, they will have greater impact than threatening, killing, or otherwise abusing males. the second part of your question deals with the institutions at are supposed to be protecting them, and obviously every time you have case, an incident in which the institution that is held responsible for protecting that community, in fact, ges to the dark side and becomes part of the problem. you've taken a giant step back, and it takes years sometimes to restore the confidence in the instution. >> yeah. do you think withholding funds specifically geared to that is a deterrent to that? what's going tohange that? >> i'll offer you my view with which you have every right not to agree with completely. congressman, in my judgment, there's many way to attack the issue.

some of them are direct and frontal. with hold funding until or put specific training components into the program that says you will be trained on human rights, trained on respect for women and children, whatever that may be. part of it is indirect. you build institutions, prosecors, and even special courts that are designed specifically to address this issue, but in my personal opinion, the most important thing we can do is professionalize across the board throughout the nation mexican law enforcement. when you have more professional, more competent, better trained law enforcement officers, just trained in law enforcement, they are far less likely to commit that sort of abuse, and that kind of kits against holding too much of the funding in a bay because that 15% is obviously 15% that for that period of time is not being used for that training purpose. i swing either way depending on

the day and what i had for lunch. >> well, that doesn't do any good if there's not oversight to bring it to the surface. what are we doing and the american taxpayers funding many of the initiatives? what are we doing to make sure this is being rooted out and we discover this and then through training or oversight? how are we going to find that out? are we doing a good enough job in that regard? >> my own view is i give us between a c-plus and b-minus now, but i do that with any program of this size that we're just getting started. your problems will almost always occur in the first two or three years of the massive programs. i don't care whether it's iraq,

afghanistan, mexico, colombia, that's where the biggest number of problems are. we're out of thateriod now. you have a right to a of us what is our specific e scrabbluation -- evaluation and oversight mechanisms, and i believe that's the challenge for this year that we're still innd next year. part of the problem we have to workour way through is how we work this with the government of mention koas because at the -- mexico because at the end of the day this is our police -- their police and their military. i hope you call me up and haul me over the coalsn another six months time on just that issue because i'm hopeful we'll have a much better, clearer, and more precise story to tell by that time. >> thank you. i'm over my time, if you could in writing, forward to me not just the grade, but what actions and oversight you're going to implement and the look at the grade afterwards. thank you.

>> thank you, and just for the record, mr. ambassador, we'll be happy to call you back and rake you over the coals. [laughter] i'd now like to recognize mr. bill racus for five minutings. >> thank you very much, mr. chairman. i expressed deep concern regarding reports that the united states participated in multipleacts of gun walking. we've seen it in the case of fast and furious, allowing firearms to pass in the possession of criminal and other third party organizations south of our border. i strongly support efforts to disrupt criminal syndicates that traffic firearms, of course, and drugs, and conduct illegal activities. however, when those efforts serve to fuel criminal

enrprises throughout the provision of firearms, they must be stopped. it's extremely troubling that the united states government would willfully allow weapons to be acquired by dangerous criminals and drug trafficking organizations in direct intervention. can the panel explain for the committee what efforts your agencies are currently taking to enforce current laws and to ensure that we are not allowing weapons to fall into the hands of mexican drug cartels and criminal organizations. please? >> congressman, when i look at drug trafficking and drug trafficking and violence go hand-and-hand, and as we target those representatives deployed to the united states, we encounter weapons frequently, and we seize those weapons, and we do that continuously throughout operations throughout

the country. >> we are constantly on the lookout in the southwest border and the region for weapons that are southbound. we've instituted checks of rail and of cars that far out strip anything we'veone in the past for that reason, and we'll continue to do so. >> and finally, if i can add on from our end, congressman, and that's the external side, what we do on the southern side of the border, we are working to support both training for mexican law enforcement and military in terms of idenfication of and how to do investigations of ill illicit firearms and illegal firearms, and second, we support tieing them in to our own electronic tracing systems that we have whereby we can track through serial numbers and other identifyin data, a firearm to

give the mexican institutions access to that same system. >> thank you. my next question, the safety of the men and women in uniform rerains obviously my top concern, and i demand those on the front line of the battl get the training, resources, and support they need to do their job as safely as effectively as possible. we must act to gain operational control of the border. to do anything less would be a disservice to the border, personnel leaves the door open to which criminals, drug smugglers, human traffickers, and terrorists can destroy the fabric of our society. while the merida initiative bolsters the accountability and professionalism of the mexican police at the federal level, corruption among local police forces is cited as a key reason why the drug cartels are able to continue exploiting the product

to the united states where they turn a blind eye or actively work for the cartels, corrupt lice police officers enail the drug gains to remain a national opposed to a regional threat. i have my question is on this matter is two-fold. how does the merida initiative address the issue of corruption among local police officers if merida does not address this issue, what action do you recommend to the committee to counter the corrupt police officers -- corrupt police forces on what the initiative is to accomplish? question for the panel. >> let me start, congrsman, and i start by the last sentence i offered in my testimony, and it took us many years 20 get into the situation, it 4r take yes to get out, and corruption clearly falls into that

category. what are we doing now? first, attempting to professionalize. first the federal police forces and increasingly in the future, the state and local police forces because a professional law enforcement institution is less likely to be corrupt than a non-professional one. second, we're supporting the development internal investigating capability, a municipal, state, or federal police institution, individuals within the police force whose job is to monitor, investigate, and sanction corrupt members of the instition. third, we are ensuring they have salaries you can live on. if your sally is $15 a month, it's like likely you supplement that through exterm income. if it's $1,000 a month, it's 985 less likely a month you'll

trying to supplement it. finally, working with the attorney generals office of mexico and working with the state attorneys general to ensure public prosecution that is visible to everyone in the community of corruption officials and office that there by sends a sna that corruption will not be tolerat tolerated. >> how much progress has been made? >> it depends where you are and what the institution is you are dealing with. i'll talk about the one i believe have teen the greatest progress in this record, and that is the full police of the ssp, an institution that before the merida initiative totaled about 6,000, and is now nearly 40,000, and my own personal opinion is that's an instituti that's much more highly regarded for its professionalism an by

the same token it's honesty than it was five years ago. if we can get to that level in the 32 state and hundreds of municipal institutions, i would suggest so all of you, ladies and gentlemen, that we've made serious progress. ..

this horrendous clout has come over our neighbor and his engulfing these wonderful people. i want to suggest that the law enforcement and basically what i'm hearing today, is law enforcement is going to be the answer. i just want to suggest to you that i do not think that is the case. we have been trying to bolster -- we have had military groups tried to bolster this and they have turned against authorities and cartels. for 20 years now, we have been trying to suggest that the cooperation between law enforcement can solve this problem, but it has gotten worse and worse. let me ask you a little bit about something that was just brought up. did any of your agency's no

about the fast and furious operation that saw thousands of military-style weapons get into the hands of the cartel? did any one of your organizations know about that organization prior as it was going on and being instituted? instituted? did you personally know about it and did someone in your operation know about it? >> i did notto the best of my knowledge no in my part of the u.s. government. >> no one from the bureau of the national narcotics and law enforcement knew about fast and furious in your testimony today? >> i became aware of it at the same time. >> what about drug enforcement administration?

>> congressmen, we are working with those committees that are investigating that matter at this time that would be the comment that i would meet. >> so your comment is that you were not going to comment on a direct questionabout whether or not you're agency knew about fast and furious? >> my comment would be that we are working with those subcommittees that are investigating fast and furious. >> this happens to be a member of congress interested and you are now under oath so you could answer the question for me. >> iind that to be of great interest, but your predecessor just spoke, mr. brown's field

can go on record that he didn't know anything about it an you cannot. do you know anything of fast and furious? >> i knew when it became exposed to all of you and in terms of my office i can sa that no one in my office knew. >> you personally did not know anything about nor did anyone in your office as far as you know? i appreciate that. i just want to put that on the record mr. chairman. i voted for nafta years ago based on the promise that nafta would in some way help the economy of mexico and thus prevent or offer an alternative to this drugs as being a way of earning a living down there. did nafta have a positive impact , and can we make these economic agreements and expect that they will have a better

impact of elsewhere than they have on mexico and feel free could occur whoever thinks can answer that. we are not the right people to answer that question however my wife says there's never an issue i shouldn't talk about so i will offer simple and views i spent three years in colombia actually trying to make a case for the fda which is finally found its way to this institution, so i will make that basic genetic case. free trade agreements for the most part are good for the economies of both countries involved, good for the economies of both countries involved because they allow the commerce -- >> can you compare that to mexico? degette the end of the day i don't want to cling to be an expert on nafta but i would say toou that the logic is by removing any , you know, the cost of moving goods back and forth across the border you produce more trade by produci more trade, the factories and

companies produce more stuff as they produce more stuff the employ more people and as the employ more people their economies grow. the logic therefore is the economy grows on both sides of the border. that's the logic behind the free trade agreement. >> it's gotten worse in mexico since we passed nafta. unfortunately. that's just the observation. it's inescapable to see that. well listen, thank you very much mr. chairman. >> i thank the gentle in from california and i would like to recognize mr. duncan for fi minutes for questions. >> thank you mr. truman and i think we've done a good job of exploring this topic today and i want to thank the panelists for being here and for your service to the nation in your various capacities. i will take a different line of approach becauset is a topic that is interesting to me. i know th we've talked about many times on the committee of homeland security and that is the issue of the international terrorist organization of hezbollah and its involvement

with the mexico drug cartel. many believe the international terrorist organizations of the mexican drug cartels have been working together for years and the drug cartels have cooperated in countries in western africa, south america, central america most importantly gullickson the form described the team of international terrorism or for more disciplinethan al qaeda best financing from the government of iran and syria and the global network of operatives who could be called on to watch an attack at any time. just last year in july of 2010 we saw the first explosion south of siskel cit thousand eight the international network of drug trafckers and money launderers have been arrested as part of an international operation coordinated by the dea. so, i can go on and talk about

the owner a cafe in tijuana the rest in 2002 who traveled all the wa to dearborn michigan and spent years in prison for conspiring to raise money for as a law. there's just a lot of cases. so i would ask how much of a prayer ready should hezbollah be to the counterterrorism policy? >> as we look at the tie btween the drug trafficking and terrorism and we see that around the globe for the dea is a pretty the we look to those organizations, and we continue to look at their connection across the globe. is to begin your activities with the dea and thank you for serving the region of south carolina where i'm from by the way i forgot to mention that comes your activities with the dea is there any conclusive evidence of hezbollah's involvement with the tunnel and

activities of the cartel? >> i would say a general statement on the link between the drug trafficking and terrorism does exist. i don't necessarily see that to a great degree with the mexican cartels but other locations around the world where we see light in afghanistan or places like that. >> mr. ambassador, iknow in south america in your service the border region how much of it was put on that area during your time in south america and in chile and also columbia? >> you may have left out the third one that has the greatest focus and the would be venezuela. congressman, i believe yoare absolutely dead on the right to be focused on hezbollah as a

potential threat. second, if hezbollah were to devep operational capabilities of the western hemisphere that would be one major serious problem for the united states of america. thd i believe as we look at hezbollah we have to break into two parts. one is the kind of fund raising possibilities that the have and i actually think that there is evidence of that in a number of countries in south america. the second part of the threat is operational capability. i get this stage do not see operational capability by hezbollah in the western hemisphere. that said, i do not focus on this issue for a living. there are others who do that and would be far better not highest to get an opinion from them than from the guy who does organized crime and law enforcement.

>> thank you for a much. would you like to china on this issue at all? >> i think it's been covered by my colleagues we are constantly looking for our intelligence analysis branch for those kind of linkages or for an indication of those kind of linkages and we will continue to do so. >> i yield back the balance. >> i would like to recognize mr. rivera for five minutes for opening questions. >> thank you very much mr. chairman and to all the wiesses for being here today. i want to try to hone in on this issue of mexico and its ability to carry out primary responsibility in protecting its citizens and also the impact that the diversification of productivity and criminal organizations in mexico with

other types of criminal insurgencies against the state may be developing and whether they are making headway. i wonder if perhaps all three of you could comment your thoughts on the rug cartels and whether they have drug cartels in mexico and whether they have indeed diversified into a variety of illicit activities and maybe we can start with secretary bromfield. >> sure, congressmen. i will give you my answer filtered through not just my experience of the past year dealing directly with the merida issue in mexico with the prior three years when i was in colombia. as i suggested in an earlier answer i believe what is happening in mexico is the larger cartels are taking serious hits. they are breaking up to a considerable extent. there are now more organizations but smaller in nature, less national and nationwide in scope

and more regionally focused, so whereas previously you would have had x number you now have maybe three times as many bu each one of those organizations is smaller. >> would you agree as well as their illicit activities have moved beyond just the drug trafficking? >> first think the expanded their drug-trafficking in terms of what they are willing and able and capable of doing. it's no longer just cocaine. if the kelso ma mony out of methamphetamines come out of heroinoppel or other products they do. they can use the same institutions and logistics systems to move products if they are using it in a criminal enterprise to a certain extent it doesn't matter what is in the truck the plea in the boat for the backpack if they can make money by moving at the can and they will and to that extent i suppose my answer to the question would be yes i do see some signs of diversification.

>> administrator been some, your thoughts of there's been lots of illicit activities or the evolution of illit activities? >> we have seen the same evolution as well. i mean, the transition to free period of time from marijuana traffickers to cocaine. they basically pushed their operations and the cullom begins have receded over the last decade or two decades where now you have mexican organized crime that have -- the are the wholesale distributors in the united states of the offense of abusive cocaine and marijuana and heroin but then also as we have impacted the leadership in mexico the of the diversified as well into other revenue streams kidnapping and extortion of a number of other crimes as well. >> certainly we see the same

both department titian and the diversification of across the narcotics spectrum and also we have a significant concern about the human trafficking in human smuggling engagement on the part of some of the criminal organizations and we are focusing saddam's significant energy on that as well. >> i would hope that if there is this evolution or diversification of the illicit activities with respect to the drug cartels moving beyond the drug trafficking even if the drug trafficking perhaps has moved to different forms of the trafficking or different forms of drugs i think it's important as we go forward that we also look at diversifying o strategy as well if it's not just drug trafficking and if it includ human trafficking and smuggling and other activities th is something that would perhaps concerned many members of congress to make sure the administration has as we go through looking at the genesis of the initiative and what its

primary responsibility at the beginning and with the threat was if that threat has indeed changed and if the activity has diversified we would make re focusi on that as well and be responsive to the changing threatof the illicit activity so i will yield back mytime. >> thank you very much. i would like o add to the to recognize you for five minutes for questions. >> assistant secretary good seeing you again. 175 years the u.s. and mexico have held rong relations building and sharing membership in international organizations will share the maritime border, the land border, there's a billion dollars of trade between the u.s. and mexico would you agree the current relationship between the u.s. and mexico is at its strongest most positive

point that it's ever been in the last 175 years? >> as you know, you and i come from the same state and i would use exactly those words. i believe it is a bilateral relationship right now it is unprecedented in terms of the willingness of both governments to work together in the face of a long history of complications. >> would you agree that we should be working with our mexican partners to bring in closer especially if the knicks and bulls being given or should we be pushing them away by going into what means we ought to call them or other groups that are working there? >> iwould never offer an opinion on what the director and what other members of the two distinguished committees have suggested. i would say to you as i said in my opening statement that if

cannot reach a basic agreement with the government of mexico our efforts probably will not succeed. it has to become operative. we have to agree with what we are trying to do and if not we are unlikely to succeed. >> of the drug cartels were designated as terrorist organizations, and consider that they are dealing in several hundred cities in the u.s., how do we deal with u.s. citizens to purchase drugs from them if someone purchases a bag of marijuana for personal consumption would they be charged with aiding and abting a terrorisand i assure we said what 25 or $30 billion of money down to mexico wouldn't be a possibility? >> as i look at it from organized-crime standpoint, i believe our authorities federal

narcotic are sufficient to address the trafficking problem that exists now. >> i guess that you are saying that we don't need to go into -- i'm one of those i believe in law enforcemt in lagat three police officers in my family when it comes to law enforcement nada folks who do the day-to-day i would agree with your assessment on that. let me ask a specific question to the initiative for the best doubles the multinational agency intelligence and one is to establish theegional intelligence operation coordination to read my understanding is that the u.s. government designated one agency which you might be familiar with to take the lead on this and the mexican agency to dig the lead on this. according to the mexican agency,

on at fusion senator there's been about $10 million that destin spent which is good but according to the mexican agency where i is supposed to be putting in the money they are saying that they still haven't got any of tht money. they hen't been trained, and again, there's two sides to every story but the mexican governmentas designated to help the center say they haven't gotten any of that, the $10 million has gone to a quote the u.s. agencies which again i'm okay but are we forgetting our mexican partners on this? >> i think as we look at the exchange of intelligence, congressman, it is very robust as i mentioned earlier. >> not talking exchange of information. we are a best relationship. listen to my question.

have the money that's been narrowed to million dollars, has any of that been spent to help the club the mexicans or train them at the center? >> the one that is operational now i don't know the monetary figure i really couldn't answer that. i don't know the answer to that question to the estimate let me restate this because my time is up to you know is there any reason to doubt the mexican agency that was given the lead just like the american agency is their anything that would question the statements that they meet that you know of? >> thank you very much. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you very much. we appreciate it. and if the witnesses don't mind, we would like to flatten ask a

few more questions and take the ambassador of on his offer. i would recognize myself for five minutes for questions. ryckman this is an important hearing and it's ieresting. some of the takeaways right off the bat is the activities the cartels are engaged in in need a definition by the activities that are insurgent activities but i wanted to before i get on to that i wanted mr. brownfield, ambassador, you in answering some questions earlier you post three questions to the committee

that he would suggest asking and the first one was what more c we get by using the label or terminology or designation i would say this the criminal insurgency will allow us to develop a counterinsurgency strategy that pulls all u.. esources to other for a comprehensive and effective response to the reality on the ground and increase awareness in the u.s. of the threat we face. the second question what are the domestic legal implications of this and the answer to that is and what impact with the designation have on progress on the ground. my suggestion is that this would simply be the utilization of the

good u.s. mexican relations to a simultaneously addressed threat on all levels so i think for me and for a lot of people this isn't as much as saying it has failed there has been some successes in merida that cannot deny that are good things but as we look forward could kind of make the determination not to label what's happening in mexico is also hamstrings our ability to confront the challenges because we aren't properly identifyg what those are. mr. benson, in your written testimony, you talked about the evolution in some of the cartel's activities here in the

united states wouldn't it be helpful if the department of the treasury, all of the agencies, a whole of government approach, don't you think there woul be helpful in completing your task? chairman, we do that now. we leverage every department in the u.s. government as we cross a number of different agencies and target their leadership here in the united states and other countries. so as we'll get the money flow for example and the movement of the drug lords back and forth and the movement to other countries it s across and many different departments and agencies impacting those organizations. -- you've got everything that you need. >> i think the authorities that we have for sufficient to tackle

and bale the mexico organized-crime. >> how to battle insurgency? >> as said, chairman, i believe our titl21 of 40 is that we have on the federal narcotics statutes are sufficient to target the cartel. it's in their leadership. i think this gets back to the point of the definition of y it's important to define what it is we are challenging. most peple recognize the cartel's activity has gotten worse, that theyre using every tool available to displace government. they are offering health care and other things to the citizens of mexico to try to gain favor. so if you just want to go after it as a drug enforcementpolicy, then i would say okay, you have the support you need from some

of these other departments. but if we describe what is happening as it is as an insurgency, there are a lot of other tools in the toolbox to be used and we can't continue to sit back and watch the growth of these cartels and their insurgent activities, criminal activities in mexico because it puts not only the people of the united states at risk of the freedom, security and prosperity but also, the people of mexico, their freedom, security and prosperity to get my time is expired and i would like to recognize mr. ingalls for five minutes for questions. >> thank you mr. chairma i want to talk about merida but before i want to comment on something that mr. duncan said about hezbollah. i think that would be good for us to perhaps get a briefing down the line about it. there is a plan that has been going from here on to syria to

venezuela and back every week we don't know who's on it and we don't know what's on it, but you can believe that there is a hezbollah connection to it so i think it is a good thing that we raised it and i think that we should pursue that more. we talk about merida initially and when we announced the initiative in october of 2007, we were told would be a three-year program, and last year we had the announcement of beyond meida and continued funding to the fy 20112012 budget, so it appears that it's here to stay for the ner future. how long has the of patrician planned for the funding initiative to continue should it continue for the foreseeable future or should we phase it out

and do something new? investor? >> that is a perfectly legitimate question ad you have every right to grow less on this question every time we come before you. my answer once again is filtered through my experience in colombia. another example of a program where we set out saying it is a five-year program. we are now wrapping up the year 12of the program. but, it's down to a level that is now about 25% of where we were when we started it in the year 2000. that doesn't strike me as an and coherent way of approaching the mexico challenge. the simple and simplistic answer your question as we are going to deawith the realities on the ground that are presented and we aren't going to ask the american people to subject their own security to an artificial

time line and timetable but it should be realistic for you to say to somebody like me i expect to see a downward path, i expect you to have that progr in a long-term sustainable level in a finite period of time and to force me to give yu some sort of estimate to what the fight period of time would be. if you were to twist my arm really hard i would say that you were very generous withus for three years. were now into the fourth year you should expect and you are seeing a reduction in the amount of resources and funding it is being put into the merida initiative. you should expect that to continue for a period of time until we mutually agreed that we are at a sustainable level. that's the best answer i can give. >> let me ask about the specifics about merida. the majority of the police in mexico at the local and state level but funding for merida goes mostly to the military and

federal security units. we know there's corruption of the local and state levels in mexico it's very high, so it is understandable i think that president culbert roane has turned to the federal police in the military. on the other hand could most crime of the local and state level and the need to be professionalized. so can you tell me how would you characterize the efforts to assist local we of state institutions and how would you assess the progress in mexico's main implementing police reform at the federal level and what point do you think the government might be able to disengage the military from its present role in domestic security? >> thank you, congressman. that's a brilliant question becae it leads right into what i call the transition we are trying to do right now in the initiative. you are correct the first three years were focuse on the

federal institutions. our objective that we set for ourselves this year and next year is to pay for it from the federal institutions to the state and municipal the institutions. the way we would hope to do it in absolute and complete agreement with the federal government of mexico which controls and decides everything that we do in mexico by way of support and assistance is to focus initially on three northern states of mexico which just happen to comprise much of our southwestern border as well and focus on their state and municipal police, follow the mexican government's system of creating what thecall model police units which is of about 422 police officers from each of the 32tates trained to a common standard equipped to a common standard with vehicles that are of a common standard so

that the federal government knows exactly what it is working with if this unit deploys the end to train enough hem to be able to address these issues when the police and law enforcement are able to do their job that i predict we would see less military involved in law enforcement which in any country in the world and putting our own is not the mission that they are trained or equipped for. >> thank you mr. sherman to the estimates before. mr. mccaulas recognized to the estimates before mr. chairman. excuse me. when the chairman and i were down in mexico city we s exactly what you were talking about. i think president culbert own believes there is a sort of rning point which was encouraging. i am not sure of that is the reality or not with the goal is to replace his military with the national police force which makes sense and people cracking

down their own country there is also high levels of trust with the national police and their polygraph's. we dhaka that is, the ambassador, we are down in combia called by the special forces almost just as good as our guys and assisting mexico and was very willing to assist in any way that he could commit we took that message to president kalona and is very interested in buying understand they are providing some training but can you elaborate? a lot of people say we put our military down there. you and i know with the sovereignty issues. the colombian special forces can assimilate better from a cultural standpoint and we

thought could provide some assistance. >> mr. chairman, i not only think it is an intriguing idea i think is an excellent idea. will not surprise you to learn that i am a great fan and admire of with the colombian people and their government and their institutions have accomplished over the last 11 or 12 years. i think they are quite capable of exporting those cpabilities through training and support elsewhere in the region. it is positive for the united states of america to see colombia and mexico engaged in this effort to gather. it is among other things excellent return for our investment of $8.5 billion or more in support of columbia over the last 11 and going on 12 years. i think you're absolutely correct. the colombians have reached a level whre i would argue they have capabilities hat almost no

other law enforcement or military institution has anywhere in the world and on some issues i would even stand them up with our own armed forces i believe in the jumble operation for example the colombians they will at this stage be the very best in the world. they can do much of the training cheaper. they can do it without shall we say the historical baggage we bring to t u.s.-mexico relationship, they can do it in a common language, they can do it where they are literally sharing time and real-world experience saying this is what we did when we were taking down the regime and the cartel's. this is not educational or academic. i'm the guy that did it and this is how we did it. i think it is an excellent value and may i tell you that i, like you, whenever i get a conversation with either of the government side and trying to encourage this exchange. >> certainly from the colombian

standpoint, very willing to partner and i think that cow verdone was interested in the idea i think we got his attention on that the great to take away we can all agree on that we can move forward with that in mind but i do want to clear up a couple of things. usually we are on the same page and are the best of friends. when you have a foreign rrorist act this occasion were you ever aware of any casual drug users prosecuted? >> no, not that i'm aware of. it could well be that they are as well as here you ave a charge 11 charges you out on a drug used just in case you lose the other even better for them that you are asking if someone was prosecuted for that purpose and obviously the answer is -- spirit that has been misrepresented by many it is not the way that it works and i like

the idea they talk about that a lot and that really goes after the hand of the organizatin whereas they would go after the body of th organization in a far greater jurisdiction with heavier penalty so it's not from my -- i know thisne is not a diplomatic issue at times with the ambassador we've had long conversations about this but i do think it would provide greater authorities had to go after these cartels. we didn't have any problems working with columbia on this this occasion did we? >> not that i'm aware of although to be fair to the other side but could we are trying to accomplish the same thing but i would remind you in colombia we never put the regime or the

cartel on the list and i assume there is a reason for that as well so i think this is worth more conversation and i wi leave it at that. and it is certainly has been a provocative issue. thank you yield back. >> mr. duncan is recognized for five minutes for questions. >> thank you to read this might be the last question so i appreciate you being with us. as the special ed agent in charge of te atlanta you were reported as saying the mexican drug cartels are able to blend right in and establish the metro at leyva as that strategic shipment point so my question is how real is the threat of the cartes of the american cities and what other cities are the mexican drug cartels operating out of >> congressman is very real. as you know atlanta is the hub for the business in the southeast, and the mexican

cartel is recognized for a lot of the same reasons. you go from the southwest border to atlanta in about 1100 miles a 15 hour trip and then from there we would see those cartels push up loads of cocaine for example all the way up the eastern seaboard and in the bill also use the house in dallas and atlanta and other places to collect thatmoney and then push it back down to the cartel leadership so the of strategically identified locations because it is a good business model for them. surely it is a good business models for the companies like fedex and others where they use the hub to distribute certain things and if we know that they are using atlanta and dallas and phoenix and some of those areas would that make it easier to

crack down on? >> we have to the many are we in places like a plant of or the other transshipment locations and what we have seen is as we hit the mid place like atlanta they will at just and a tactical changes in the way they do business so it's a matter of us keeping on top of the mess they make their adjustments to our enforcement efforts. >> one other question about a methamphetamine. cheaply made but is it cost-effective for mexico in a drug cartel to bring it into the u.s. versus having it in the factor and cooked here? >> we see methamphetamine on the streets of the united states today, and most of it is produced there they do produce a

is an expensive and they bring up three large amounts of for example crystallized methamphetamine and high purity that they push out into the streets, so in i still believe we will see mexican organizations supply a lion share to the u.s. market and we will also see the smaller operations that support either individual drug cabinet or those few but i believe the mexican organizations will remain the primary supplier for methamphetamine in the u.s. market. >> is it easier for them to get the sudafed and other interest to the mexican channels since we supported their efforts of the over-the-counter products? >> the of instituted and they do have some very good chemical control in mexico now, but we

have seen those lab operators of just the manufacturing techniques to use other metods to produce within to been and i believe we will continue to see that. >> thank you. i don't have any further questis. i would yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you mr. duncan. this concludes the hearing. i want to first thank the staff on both majority and minority site for both the subcommittees for your hard work in this and i want to thank the members who participated today, and most important i want to thank investor brofield and mr. benson and ms. silver for your time d sharing your thoughts on what i think is an important topic. with that, the subcommittee is adjourned.

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