recent article on the new working class and the changing economic demographics and the u.s. then economist bill hample of the credit union national association on u.s. credit unions. after that, kevin concannon of the agricultural department will discuss the national school lunch program. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] host: president obama's jobs bill faces its first hurdle in the senate today. live coverage on c-span2 with the vote expected around 2:00 p.m. today. he will travel to pittsburgh to push congress to pass the $447 billion american jobs act. we will cover his speech at c- span.org. on the house side debate begins on the free-trade agreement with south korea, colombia, and panama.

to into c-span for that debate. the senate finance committee will mark of the pending trade agreements as well and the coverage begins at 4:00 p.m. on c-span 3. good morning on this tuesday morning, october 11. we will begin with education. "the washington times" reports the senate and house are working on differing bills to reform the nation's school system. we want to get your take. how would you change education in america? how would you change education in america? let me show you "the washington times" this morning and there headlines -- their headlines. this shows tom harkin, a

democrat. he is expected to present the plan today. the piece says he is working with his republican counterpart, michael enzi from wyoming. the details are not known but it says house republicans are also working on legislation and they are moving forward on their own policy overhaul -- a five-part package focusing on freeing states and school districts on many mandates and how to spend federal money, promoting more charter schools and changing the definition of effective teachers and offering more leeway of the type of instructors schools can put in the classroom.

dozens of states, by the way, plan to apply for those waivers according to the education secretary. we want to hear from all of you. how would you change education in america? john is joining us on the line for all others from lancaster, pennsylvania. caller: i would go with raising teachers' salaries 15% to 20%.

i would recommend -- this is a tough one because it is a local issue -- to eliminate at least 25% of administrators. that is where the big salaries go. that is for all the gobbledygook gets involved. i would like to mention one other thing. you guys have had a blackout of occupy wall street and i think it is a disservice. it is one of the biggest things going on in the whole country. and you are talking about education. republicans are not going to do anything about education. democrats are having trouble. and you guys have ignored it. host: we talked about that last week. karen is a parent from florida. caller: good morning. i am just calling to say --

charter schools is a great option. my husband is a teacher and his children work of a charter school as well as we send our kids there. they have the ability to get rid of bad teachers and keep their cost down that way and pay their good teachers more. it really has been a great option for us. host: how have you seen your kids change, or have you? caller: the teachers are really interested in how they do as far as their work. they are more available to us. it has been a great option for us. host: do you know there are other areas near you that do not have a charter school option? caller: there is not a great number of them and it is hard to get your kids into it because of the limited number of charter schools. host: what is the process? caller: you fill out an application and you go into a lot reprogram based on

availability. host: what do the teachers say about working there? caller: they make less money but they look like it because they can get rid of colleagues that the not perform well. host: they make less money. why is that? caller: probably because they don't have unions really pushing agendas. but at the same time they can get rid of bad colleagues so they have the possibility of making bonuses and things like that. host: a teacher in lancaster, pennsylvania. caller: thank you. i am really a retired teacher. i started teaching in 1961. i would like everyone to know that the education system can't be fixed that quickly, because we are starting at the top. we need to start at the bottom all of these government reform plans have not worked because we did not attack the real problem.

and this is probably impossible to do. you have to start at first with the family. if we get children to school that the bill to pay attention, that the bill to pay -- do their homework, then they blame the teachers if they don't do well? teachers are trying. and i have also substituted in all kinds of schools and our area, from private to alternative education. it is the kids that don't pay attention. when the kids listen to the teacher and do their work, they do well. so, incentives for teachers and -- blaming the teachers, it is not going to work until we have a better raw material. we don't expect diamond cutters to produce a diamond from every rock they get, so how do we

expect teachers to produce the best pupil they can be when they have problems -- when they don't pay attention, don't do their homework, don't study, problems at home, so many things involved in education. host: how would you change parents, though? caller: that is the problem. government cannot tell the parents what to do with their children and how to bring them up. host: charlie is another teacher from ohio. caller: i have been in about 15 different school systems and i have found in the cleveland area, we have 27 different school systems in our county. and if the students were able to just go to the school bus they choose and allow their tax money to follow them -- if the children were able to go to the schools that they choose, that

would be a better system. in the poor systems the children are trapped in there is no way out, especially in the cleveland systems. if we would allow those students to go to suburban schools we would have a lot more opportunity. host: do you know why they set it up to the way they set up, that you are not allowed to go to a different district? caller: it has been that way since the beginning -- your property taxes pay for the school so they just figure you have to stay in your community. but cleveland, the property taxes have gone up and up, and the school system results have gone down. it is just said because those kids just don't have opportunity. we have a lot of great suburban schools that achieved very well. cleveland public schools are just atrocious. if we would allow the students to go to the suburban schools i

will promise you they would have a chance rather than just going off to prison and a high pregnancy rate. host: why do you think there would be more competition? caller: is the child could take -- if the child could take their taxes to whatever schools they choose there would be competition. all of those 27 different school systems would be competing for those kids, those tax dollars. i just see that as a great remedy. host: charlie is a teacher from qwest lake, ohio. we are asking you to weigh in on how you would change the education system in america. we will go to frank joining us from pennsylvania. lots of calls from pennsylvania.

caller: good morning. i really enjoy your show. the first thing that i think we need to understand is we need to have a realistic expectation of what education can accomplish. by that i mean this -- when politicians say we have to have 100% proficiency by a certain year or when parents say with a special needs a child that i expect to see my child being able to read, there is really a gap in reality. because anybody that knows about i.q.'s and things of that nature, is you can only given so much -- did so much given a certain set of circumstances. to demand 100% efficiency for someone who has a marginal iq will never happen. one of the problems we have in this country as far as politicians who say we have to train for the future jobs. one of the hallmarks of american

society in the past was our ability for people in this country with marginal intelligence that can't be computer scientists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, they can make a living and support a family doing certain types of jobs in manufacturing and so forth. those jobs are out. now when politicians say we have to retrain, reeducate, they miss the point. the point is you can get all the training and education, but if these people in society have marginal iq's it will never change. yet we keep throwing money and monday -- money after people to educate them when there is no reasonable prospect they will be able to do that. host: that was frank in newcastle, pennsylvania. we told you president obama's jobs bill faces its first hurdle in the senate today. the senate opens at about 2:00 p.m. and the debates and vote will happen later today. this is "politico" which says --

scott is a parent in texas. how would you change education in america? caller: competition, vouchers, and get rid of the teachers' unions. you can go to a -- a school bus

community college -- on-line school and you would not have to leave your bedroom and you could learn add your own pace. the previous caller talking about some kids just don't have the iq or the intellect to learn. i think they can all learn but they just don't learn at the same pace. the slower students would get it and the evidence students would advance quicker. now they are teaching to the middle. the slow kids don't get it and the advanced kids get bored and the whole thing -- it is horrible what we are doing. and there are much better ways of getting it done if we can get rid of these teachers unions. there is a great book on this subject written about five years ago called ", the warm and the apple -- "the worm in the apple"

and he was a 35-year educator and he says the teachers' union is the main detriment. host: what is your issue with the teachers' union -- personally? caller: personally i do not have any -- but we have had instances of teachers that should have been removed but were not, totally incompetent, could not even speak english and unions at them in. host: michael is a parent from conway, south carolina. caller: i have two points i would like to make. number one, the first thing in education that he wanted it is get the federal government out of it. the federal government has no business in education whatsoever. i grew up in the 1950's and 1960's when the federal

government was not involved in public education and our education was much better because it was handled on alogia and a state's level. and anytime you get the federal government involved in anything, it is a disaster. point two, my daughter is now a teacher. she is in her second year. a lady from pennsylvania had it absolutely correct. because my daughter is seeing its first hand. i told her when she was going into education that that is what it was going to be. she can't teach because of the students will not listen, they won't be paid, they want to do their homework, they want -- they will not pay attention, do the homework. and they do absolutely nothing

to make the students -- it is like the inmates are running the asylum. host: here is a tweet from one of our viewers -- if you want to send us a tweet, go to twitter.com/cspanwj. a teacher from wyoming. caller: it is not the federal government, it is not the local or state government. i taught special lab -- special lead, first through 5, and head start program, and found that was a federal program and it was the best program to prepare our students for the public-school system what i feel and what i found -- school system. what i feel and what i found in my college career, i received a b.a. in behavioral science and

my educational degree -- and i believe it is just teachers that of the problem. the whole attitude that those that can do and those that can't teach is so very, very true. the students in my small college, the ones that were in education, that were majoring in education, did not belong there. they did not have the intelligence, nor did they have of the compassion -- have the compassion to reach students. a lot of them were there to have some resolve. host: how you teach that -- trying to be the nation's teachers? caller: i feel we shouldn't have a degree in education in our colleges. i feel if you want to teach math, you should have a degree in math. if you want to teach english, you should have a degree in

english. if you wanted teach in an elementary school, you should at least have a strong background in social sciences. i was so bored in the education aspect of my college years. i learned about drumming and how to add 1 and 1 = 2. we need high your iq qualified teachers, not just people who said in a college for four years. that is not going to teach our kids. host: a teacher from casper, wyoming, her thoughts on how she would change education in america. we will continue to take a phone calls but first i want to show you a couple of front pages in the newspapers. "usa today" --

below that, you can see the states that have the most toll facilities. a texas tops the list with 51, the jersey, 40, new york, 37. the front page of "the new york times" is a story that will make a lot of news. next to that story is a domestic one. "states adding drug tests as a hurdle for welfare."

how would you change education in america? john from maine. caller: first of all, i would get rid of the teachers' unions. they are the ones to protect some of the incompetent teachers that should not be teaching, like that lady said. computers -- computers it should not be introduced until maybe junior high school or i school. they take away communications skills from these kids. my daughters were raised with computers practically and they

can hardly write cursive, and they are lucky if they can print. the other thing is, like the person said before, they are protected. you got teachers -- i think when they went to college, instead of studying they went to cancun for spring break instead of building up on their studies. and the other thing -- to test these kids to see where they are really good at. not everybody is stupid. einstein had a problem in school. the teachers thought he was the problem kid. when he said sun, people listen. -- when he said something, people listened. people take these jobs because it is prestigious or pays a lot

of good money and really do not care about the job itself. says mitt romney with 38% -- sorry, this is the institute of politics at harvard university institute of politics poll, showing mitt romney with 38%. herman cain with 20%. and a washington post as bloomberg poll that shows mitt romney with 24%, herman cain with 16% and rick perry with 13%. two polls. the candidates and squaring off in another debate tonight up in new hampshire. we will be covering that and we will have coverage after the date on c-span.org. for another phone call -- david

is a teacher from oklahoma. caller: good morning. i would like to start by saying -- this is my 31st year in education, by people -- offended by people with attitudes of the previous callers who said if you can't, you teach. i would like to say the past 31 years i have been teaching and working hard in the classroom. i think the kit schools have the answer, the new school systems in the public schools. the book -- and i recommend everyone read it -- "work hard and be nice." that said, i also think that the parents at home -- it always starts at home. and a number of kids coming into schools with dysfunction,

family-wise. i think there are some hard- working teachers out there and there are some very talented teachers out there. they get overlooked by people like the last two callers. host: are you part of a union? caller: i am not, no. host: you heard the comments from a couple of folks about getting unions out of the education system. what do you think about that? caller: i would not have a problem with that. i think everything is local -- neighborhood. lost the concept of a neighborhood schools. i think that if you have schools in the neighborhood, kids are working hard in schools like kip schools, emphasis placed on

manners, in addition to the education, and and then combined that with neighborhood schools with parents involved, community involved, public education can work. host: here is an e-mail that echoes what you said -- at going what you said at least about the local part -- echoing what you said about a local park. denver is a parent from va. caller: i think teachers are given a bad deal, the majority are given a bad deal and are -- really, it is disgusting. school was never supposed to be a place where you just drop your kids off. it is a parent's duty also.

the previous caller said, his two girls cannot even right cursive. you should have noticed that an elementary school. when i was growing up, you just did not get a spanking when you got home -- the teacher would spank you, too, because you have to respect the institution you are ian, you understand? and the teachers have a very hard job because they are not supposed to be babysitters, ok? and another thing -- people need to be more realistic. it is not realistic enough. you need to have the kids growing up and find out what their interests are so they can grow up and not just work for somebody else but the entrepreneurs for their own self. host: the front page of "the

wall street journal" -- also, the politics section of "the washington times" has this story about rick perry focusing on romney's past in a scathing new ad. we would to show you that new ad.

♪ >> i am a conservative businessman. them of the massachusetts law was a model for obamacare. >> the path that we pursued it -- >> no such thing. >> doing the same thing for everyone in the country. >> why is it is working in massachusetts would you not apply it to the rest of the country? >> i would. >> there are a lot of reasons not to let me. >> he is right. host: a new ad out by rick perry and head of tonight's debate.

we will cover this been word -- spin room afterwards. go to c-span.org. this is "the boston globe" about the massachusetts senate right. elizabeth warren capitalizing on democrat establishment support and raise 3.75 -- 3.15 million. that is the front page of "the boston globe." and then back to presidential politics. "the houston chronicle" frontpage, courtesy of the news eum. ron is a parent from vermont. we are talking about how you would change the education system in america. caller: good morning. i have german neighbors. we have discussed education here

and there many times. their point was that the kids here work extremely hard at school, much harder than they do in germany. i was always looking for an answer. i don't think the teachers are at fault here whatsoever. but the two things that stick out the most are the lack of vaccines and a lack of fluoride in water in europe. i think this needs to be investigated because i really do feel that our youngsters today are brain damaged from these things. it is " all right. we will go to dawn from maryland. caller: i am a retired d.c. police officer and all i did was go into the schools and counsel children. one lady said you have to start from the bottom up, not from the

top down. it is not the teacher's fault. i was amazed at how many kids come to school with no breakfast. and those who did come to school were so full of sugar they could not sit still, nor could they concentrate. they want to blame the teachers. i have yet to see one teacher who was not dedicated but after being there for two or three years and not getting any cooperation from the parents, from the very system from hired them, they would virtually give up and throw their hands up. host: we will talk about the school lunch program in our last hour, taking a look at what it is and how much it costs and how it is implemented. and in dale, virginia. andy is a teacher. caller: i am a university professor at adjuncts, one of the lowest paid people on the planet for my skill level. what i see is public schools are run by administrators who are

very much out of touch with the teaching and the students. i would like to see the schools organized much more the way universities are organized. it is a great pleasure to work for a department where the administrators actually teach and know what is going on in the classroom. another thing that happens, and that is a highly mobile society -- it is less of a problem now during the recession -- but students moving around so much that they can take geography three times and never get algebra, and so one. and public schools tend to just the excuse this and graduate people anyway. one of the problems here is that of the department of education needs to recommend that certain subjects need to be taught in certain grades. we don't need to force this to happen but we can standardize education much better from the

standpoint of the department of education. and counties and states will want to participate if we do this. host: do you think it is a federal responsibility or a state and county, local issue? caller: it is both. just making recommendations will be a good start. it -- and i think states and localities will follow-up and cooperate. host: here is some news about congress this morning. we told you earlier the senate will take up of the president's jobs bill. one of the first procedural votes on the legislation. the senate opened at around 2:00 p.m. and the house will be debating the free-trade pact between south korea, panama, and columbia -- colombia. but here is "the new york times" --

the so-called super committee. he writes -- and then writing in "the washington post" is senate majority leader harry reid about a rule change made to the senate last week. and return to order in the senate. he writes in this --

and in the "the new york times" editorial-page this morning -- saying the move is chipping away at gridlock. a teacher in washington, d.c. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to say thank you for c-span. i have worked and education in d.c. for the last 10 years. the callers who said charter schools -- there are good charter schools and horrible ones. i work in a very strong one right now and my career. there are good public schools and horrible public schools as well. i think the biggest problem in urban education is the parent

components. you have a lot of people -- urban education, and improve the quality of schools and they get a lot of publicity when they kicked out bad students and sending them to other jurisdictions and then getting praise that they have done great things in urban education. but the bottom line is, there is a lot that needs to be done on the home front as far as parents are concerned. you mentioned earlier there is a new standard for people on public and -- assistance in certain jurisdictions, they have to meet -- host: to get welfare benefits. caller: i never understood why that type of policy has not been implemented for urban education, where parents are getting public assistance, there has to be a mandate that the kids of those parents must meet an attendance standard in order to qualify for benefits or there is some type of penalty. because there are a lot of

parents -- not speaking about all of them, of course -- but there are a lot of parents and who are not sending their kids to school and urban education and so maybe they are six or seven or they drop out of a charter school and they did not go back to a public school and they are just in and out of school and collecting benefits for the kids but not sending their children to school. and then it is their teachers responsibility to do remediation. and i think policymakers is a look as some type of standard that links student attendance to that type of benefit as well. host: can i get your thoughts on michele rhee? caller: i did not know personally. i think the things she had done an education in d.c., she got a lot of praise for doing what i said in my opinion, which was putting kids in certain areas and cleaning of a school system by pushing them into pg county

or certification and other schools in the district. and anyone can do that if they have the ability to do it. but a lot of schools in d.c. and other urban areas, they are stuck with what to do with low performing students who are not going to school and then the teacher or administrator are blamed for it but the kids were not coming to school. she was able to work around that and for that i giver credit. host: a story this morning -- a startling statistic on the state of american schools. they'd take a look at some of

the things president obama has said. let us hear from lesley, a parent from maryland. caller: can you hear me? ok, great. i am actually a previous military brat. i went to various different public schools and they were

always different. my mom was a constant. she was the advocate for me and my sister in each of the school systems. what i do now is i send my kids to a private school. like somebody said before, there are bad private schools and good private schools, good public schools and bad public schools. the parents must be the advocate. what i would recommend is having like a common budget for infrastructure and plan for school buildings but have the tax dollars follow the children are around. end the tax dollars would be based on the achievement of students -- and the tax dollars would be based on achievement. everyone could learn to the best of their ability based on common standards, that would be a good thing. host: before you go, how much time and effort does it take to be in certain circumstances an advocate for your child? caller: whatever you think it is worth, seriously. host: was she a stay at home

mom? caller: she was a stay at home mom but i am not. i do talk to my kids -- i say what are you learning, what are you having a problem with -- from the teacher is not calling on may, or i got a 96 and science, mom. so, everything. host: the front page in "the washington times." accusations fly on fast and furious, the program that we cover hearings here on c-span. also in "the financial times" is

this a headline about congress. steve in illinois. we are talking about how you change education in america. go-ahead. caller: good morning. i would like to see more african-american students and parents be involved in the education system. in the way it is set up right now -- the african american and parents -- in the public education and private. i feel like they are not being included enough. for the ones that go to the

charter schools -- to make a more simpler and easier to read and understand and so forth. that is what i would do for education. host: ok. here is daniel's comments on our twitter page -- ne is a parent and he is our last phone call -- eddie. caller: teachers get laid off but they don't get more specific. there is a recent court ruling that said that if you spend so much money on the boys extracurricular activity you have to spend on girls -- if indeed boys have football the girls have to have fought -- field hockey. if boys have hardball the girls have to have softball. etc go back to the offering r's. you have to take a look at -- get back to the 3 r's.

you have to go back to the school budgets. host: and 45 minutes we are going to be talking about credit unions and how they work. up next is this cover story from "national journal" -- we will be right back. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011]

>> of course, i am delighted but not surprised by the final repeals of the 18th amendment. i felt all along that when it was properly submitted to the rank-and-file they would readily see that it had no place in our constitution. >> he served as governor of new york four times, though he never in -- attended high school or college, and in 1928 al smith became the first catholic nominated by a major party to run for president. although he did not win, he is known today for the owls smith dinner, a various fund raiser for catholic charities and a stop for presidential candidates every election year. al smith is one of the 14 men featured on our new series "the contenders." live from albany friday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. >> it has been over 30 years

since a small group from the out of phi alpha fraternity posed a memorial for dr. martin and the king, and watch the official dedication in washington, d.c. on c-span. >> watch more video of the candidates, see what political reporters are saying and track the latest campaign contributions on c-span's web site for campaign 2012. it helps you navigate the political landscape with twitter feeds and facebook updates, candidate bios and latest polling data and links to media partners in the early primary and caucus states. all at c-span.org/campaign2012. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are with nancy cook from "national journal." we showed you the cover going into the break talking about the

working class. who makes up the working class? guest: the huge group across racial and demographic lines. this story -- we fanned out across the country and of the various groups and how they are fearing recession and what their record -- attitudes are. host: what do they do? guest: some more home health care aides. we profiled a firefighter. we profiled a family that owns a beauty shop. but really the story looks at their hopes and dreams of their own economic opportunities across generations, and how they see themselves advancing toward the american dream and really what their view of the american dream is. host: what is their view of the american dream? guest: everyone across the country once the same things -- of course the status symbols vary. everybody wants a stable job of particularly at a time when unemployment is so high. people want to be able to offer a better life for their

children. they want there to children to go to college. those are the common themes. unfortunately given the recession those things are out of reach for more and more. host: on average, do they make a year? guest: the median income has really slid back over the last two years because of the recession. either it is and 40,000 to the 30,000 rental one of the interesting things we found is although census figure shows the median income has slid across racial and ethnic -- ethnic lines, blacks and latinos are actually much more optimistic about the economic opportunities even though the data shows they, too, have been heard. host: the front page of "the new york times" had a headline about median incomes shrinking further after the recession. african-americans tend to be more optimistic. why? guest: historical and cents but 19 -- let's say the late 1960's,

they have been pushing and making more gains to the middle- class than whites, let's say, and even latinos. there is a sense that even the median income has lit, there is still a sense that they made advancement over the last century. in terms of civil-rights, obviously, but also economically. host: how to the people you talk to compare their lives? guest: that is a fascinating thing. there was a harvard economist in 2006 that did this report before the recession talking about how people view that. what he found is they really view their economic opportunity based on those people around them and their own family. and so, one of the women i talked to, a 22-year-old african american living in spartanburg, south carolina, she viewed her economic opportunities through the lens of her family. her grandmother picked cotton in the field at one point, worked in factories for several years,

as had her mother. her father is in jail. for her the fact that she has an associate degree and has what she feels is a career as a home health aide, she feels hurt economic opportunities are better. host: you have a chart that non-whites are more optimistic about their future prospects. compared to your parents, when they were your age, would you say you have more opportunity to get ahead, about the same amount, or less opportunity. 36% had more -- of whites said they had more. blacks, 69% said they had more. latinos, 62%. asian-americans, 67%. is it because of white working- class parents were better off than now their current children who have become parents and their and the working class? guest: exactly right.

while latinos and african- americans have been pushing into the middle class over the last 30 years, whites have been falling out of the middle class. for a lot of people it is concerning. one of the characters in the piece is a guy named dave miller who is a firefight in detroit and he works two jobs and his family has worked in factories, yet he does not feel he will be able to send his children to college or give them the opportunities he had an for him it is frustrating. host: is the working class the same as middle-class? guest: no, it is slightly different because the jobs the occupied are a little bit different and also they are striving for the middle-class. a slightly lower economic rung. the middle-class can encompass a broader social economic sphere. host: how hard is it for the next generation is to read to the status of the middle-class dream or the american dream? guest: i feel it is very hard because particularly in this economy, college education plays

a huge role. a college these days are so expensive. and students have more and more debt when they graduate. just that educational barrier and a financial obligations it poses, that is a problem for a lot of people and that is something that we came up with a throw the reporting. the idea you have to send your kids to college. but even a state school now has a $20,000 a year price tag which for many of these families is impossible. host: who did you did this sort -- it did you do the survey with? guest: it was done last spring and we talked about what were people's attitudes toward their economic opportunity. we talked about how optimistic are people about their own ability to reach the american dream, how optimistic are they about their children's opportunities, and whites and blacks overwhelmingly thought their children would have more opportunity.

host: robert is a republican from illinois. caller: good day to you. i would like to say i am optimistic about the american dream. however, it seems that politics as usual in washington and the way the media basically portrays the vote. it seems like they basically tell people -- they get people to vote for them. and it is not going anywhere. and as far as schooling goes, the reason why schools are bad because the federal government is involved -- it has to be light a corporation. you have cellphone -- at&t, verizon -- the reason why they succeeded because they compete with each other and the best company wins and they are always having new products. now the federal government stepped in, and everyone has

their fair share and it is going nowhere. host: to you, what does of the american dream mean? guest: i used to think it meant -- i only 21. i grew up with my father. he was a little class. as i got older it started becoming more apparent is he was a working poor. we started living paycheck to paycheck. i am still optimistic about its, as long as the politics can change. and the american dream to me right now is just being able to get a decent job and not get handouts. host: what about affording a house? guest: -- caller: i would like to say it is part of the right now it does not look like an average american just turning off on their own could even think about buying a house. host: nancy cook.

guest: it is interesting. i think it is fascinating what you say just about the struggle to get a job. it speaks to what came up in our reporting. before, the american dream was for the firefighter in michigan, on a second home, a cottage. and now for the american people the dream is just having a steady paycheck, even if they are having to accept wages that are less than 20 years ago in factories and also understanding that their jobs may be more volatile as plants move overseas and factories change and the economy ships. host: we will go to new haven, connecticut. chris, democratic caller. caller: my american dream has always been very limited. i remember being 22 and telling my parents i would never get social security. i am 61 now and, boy, i am grateful i was wrong.

i never expected to have a family and to have a house. i knew because i did not have a college degree that i would not going to be financially successful. what i concentrated on was loving, learning -- taking ben franklin as a model. he did not have a very good education but he contributed both intellectually and politically. and i spent my life volunteering for things. i worked for a radio station as a public affairs director. i helped found the public access tv here. i ran a senior citizens newspaper. i did all of these things without having a college degree and not expecting to get much money out of it. but i see the contribution i made. i see people that i know doing television programs now on a local tv station. it hardens need to know that they are volunteering their time -- heartens me to know they

are volunteering their time. guest: what is the key to success? caller: volunteering, loving learning and being satisfied with a lesser amount of money for a greater amount of satisfaction. host: got it. guest: he also raises an interesting point about people's comfort level with the government helping them. he is talking about how social security as being a huge help. one thing i found is that minorities were much more willing to look as the government as a safety net and not necessarily a bad one whereas the whites were much more likely to say that they thought having to depend on the government even brought things like medicare and social security or the welfare of any kind was not something they wanted to do. host: what does this say about education, when you talk to these people? do they feel the education they

got helped or didn't help them achieve some sort of working class status or middle-class? guest: i think the people we talked to at least about the education they had was ok, but there was a general sense that everyone needed much more education. that you-- that you needed an associate's degree and that a high school graduate degree was not enough to land a job. host: 14 million people are unemployed right now. 103,000 jobs are added in september. 48,000 of them came from professional and business services. healthcare added 44,000. and the information services industry about 34,000. guest: that was one of my interesting things in south carolina, one african-american woman, she was out home health-

care aide, it was not well paid. because she had latched on the health care, she saw that as a positive thing. host: how much did she want to make an hour? guest: her ultimate goal was $15 an hour, which would be about $31,000 a year. host: and if she made it that far, she would have what? guest: that would be a real step up for her. she could live on that and become -- her first job was walmart, making $8.50 an hour. for here, $15 an hour was big money. host: miami, florida, independent caller, you are at next. i am going to move on.

we go on to virginia, 80, a republican. caller: i want to set up falling. i believe in the american dream being forgotten many years ago. the new generation, they want everything for free. they have a lousy system of education, from what this lady is saying, the education in the u.s. is very good in that that teachers -- the teachers are very low qualified. that is one of the reasons why most of the kids, they come out of high school, they do need -- they do not know what the capital of kansas says, they do not know where mexico is. they do not have any culture besides what is locally. host: what do you think of the ramifications of that? caller: they should do a better selection of teachers. the main thing is that the parents should practice of

paying more in the life of the kids. rather than making money. guest: just in terms of economic data, what we have seen is that the jobs being created now are really in the math, science, and engineering sectors. host: and they require a college degree. guest: certainly the u.s. has to step up in those areas of education, middle school, college, and high school level, we need more people studying engineering and technology. those are jobs that are opening and they cannot find people qualified enough. that is a huge disconnect. host: from twitter. guest: i do not think that that was necessarily what we found in our reporting, a sense of inpatient or entitlement.

what we found was a sense of economic volatility in the job market. it was not that people did not want to pay dues or they job hot because they wanted to or because they got bored. people are moving around and changing jobs because in south carolina their plants have closed because they had been laid off or because they had been unable to find work. that was the sense that we found from our reporting. host: does this working-class have more than one job? guest: many of them do. the women in south carolina had to jobs. the firefighter had a small business on the side during house construction. to make in means -- ends meet, you had to be flexible and willing to work on the weekends, anytime you get the shaft. host: going back to miami, florida. you are on the air. caller: absolutely right.

you need a job. i am a handyman. i was born and raised here in miami. as far as wages are concerned, all you have to do is look at a simple index. coca-cola was worth 5 cents when i was a kid. minimum-wage right now, you cannot live off the bus $6.35, which comes out at $10,000 a year. so you are forced into having two jobs. it is not whether you want to or not, or that is economically beneficial, and you're forced to have two jobs just to get by. guest: absolutely true in a great point. wages absolutely have not kept up with inflation. you are right. people just to make ends meet, and we're not talking about buying a house or sending kids

to college, just being able to put food on the table and pay your rent, it requires a lot of people to work multiple jobs. host: memphis, tenn., frank, you are on the air. know where she is getting the study from. you do not have a life, you cannot have a life when you are working two 43 jobs in the day. people saying that you have to work that to make a living. they need to go on the wages of that we can have a light. working every day, all day long, if you do not have time to live a lie. that is what i would like to say. guest: that is a great point. i am not advocating that people work two to three jobs, to be clear. " we found is that they had to do that just to make ends meet. but you're right -- it really does affect family life.

one of the people that we profile, but a firefighter from detroit, it cut into family time with his wife and kids. it impacts people ability to have a life, a family life and a personal life. host: you did a poll on happy. would you say you are pretty happy, happy, are not happy. -- or not happy? guest: it really impacts people's ability to raise children, to take care of themselves, exercise, -- do all of these things that are good for you, that improve your life. it is hard. us in augusta, ga., tony, a republican.

caller: we are a young family. i am spanish and my mom came here as a legal immigrant. my parents were a shining example -- my mom worked at a hospital, my dad was a truck driver. we grew up middle-class. but we always had everything we needed. we did not always have what we wanted, but they instilled that in as, and i went to college. yes, college is expensive but you take on student loans, you do things, it is scary at first, but you pay it off long term and it is not that big of a payment. it is doable. we have to fight for it. guest: one thing we had to bring up in the peace, the latino women that we profile of, they also felt though some way. she was planning to go to law school, she was planning to work

a law firm in downtown chicago. the story is about how these people view their own opportunities. what we found is that very some much across racial and ethnic lines. host: an independent in louisiana. caller: i think the american dream is when you aspire and when you cannot aspire to do better than your parents did. that american dream ended when the vote was cast to go into trickle-down economics or supply-side economics. i remember tip o'neill, when it passed, bruyette colossians -- he'd be -- he took a collation of blue dog democrats, when they

helped pass supply side economics, then we would do keynesian economics, and at that time, reagan was in office, we had been no. 1 standing in the world, the best education, etc. through supply side economics they have skewed it -- and i looked up the meaning in the dictionary. it favors the wealthy and corporations. here we are 30 years later after supply side economics began. it has reached its logical conclusion at which it did during the great depression. we have sustained this for 30 years because laws were changed with regard to communications, the truth for communications at. the rich and powerful started their own network and the most gullible among us have been deceived. those who support this rich up's project here, you wake

and restore the american dream, and stop listening to the rich man's point of view. guest: the caller has a great point. the wealthy top 1% of earners in the country have done very well in the recession. they have cornered a huge chunk of wealth. what the caller is implying and talking about is the fight going on in washington right now of the budget and taxes and thinking about how we reduce our deficit and spend our money. what sort of society do we want have and the tax system that we want to have and who they will favor, and we will not know how that shakes out for a while. but is up by happening now. host: but twist on that question. guest: it makes it that much harder to access the wealth.

people that have money are going to keep that money and keep investing in, keep making more money, while the companies will put more money into elections. it makes it harder for other people to climb up the ladder. host: a democratic caller from stone mountain, georgia. caller: the most important part of this whole scintillation rigid situation is parents not having to resort -- this whole such a waste and is paris not having the resources for their kids. -- this whole situation is parents not having the resources for their kids. i have trouble over the years and i never made it over $12 an hour. 20 years ago, one hour for a

target, i think i brought home $215 pushing carts and a lot. i have had different management jobs over the years and now i am making not even close to $11 an hour. when people become complacent and never had the in come -- the income that a lot of people have that is doing well, people become complacent. and with the no child left behind program, i want to make a comment on that. people who live in socioeconomic barriers, and you get a group of people in a poor area, and they try to get their children to different schools, i found that process to be frustrating because you have people with different attitudes. i do not want those kids coming over to our school, messing up our school.

host: the first part of his comment there. guest: getting your kids into college, and what we've found is that you can take out loans into these sorts of things, but it is very hard if your parents did not go to college in you do not have a supported school to access loans and understand the process. even though many of these people view college as the intel, the all of the american dream, the gateway to that and to earning enough money to support yourself, it can be very difficult if you are the first in your family to do that. host: larry, a republican in massachusetts. caller: the american dream is alive and well. my parents lived as me and my wife are living. -- never lived as me and my wife for a living. i went to school on nights and weekends.

we're doing very well. we are a black couple. we are able to furnish our children's education. my mom and pop had no money, but they always instilled in us that we can make it. if you cannot make it here is of poor people, you cannot be anywhere. we have been to africa and egypt, and if you cannot make it here, despite what is going on, education is the key. again, the dream is alive and well. i wish my mother and father could see how we are living now. they would be very proud with what they allow us to do. guest: what you're saying fits with what we say in the pulp reduce say you're an african- american couple in your economic opportunities were much better than your parents. you have a house, you're

traveling over the world, and that sense of optimism about the economic opportunities is that african-americans increasingly feel more optimistic. and they're pushing their way into the middle class much more so than whites are right now. host: looking at finances, asking the people are satisfied with their economic situation. let's talk to mike, a democrat in oregon. good morning. caller: thank god for c-span. i myself and an illustrator -- are you there? host: yes. caller: i had -- i am around 60

and on my own home. where i made my money was in europe. host: what you do? caller: i am still pending. i found a couple of walls were i can hang some painting. -- where i can hang some paintings. but it is always been up and down. i am on an upswing at this moment. the long and short of it, but the point about what is going on in this state and in wall street right now, i think, is something that should be focused on by the news, but it is not. what we have in this country is now really what i would call a free press. -- is not really what i would call a free press. rupert murdoch as well as the corporatocracy that exist.

host: here is a tweet. guest: that is a great point. we did this poll before the interviews. we have a much broader sampling of data to base the story on. but how we found people was through social service agencies, calling around to different cities, and we wanted a slice of life from different areas in the countries and different racial and ethnic groups. that is how we went about it. host: also look at home ownership among non-whites and whites. the tear from paula, a democratic caller and tulsa,

oklahoma. good morning. you are on the air. caller: i wanted to interact. i am a recent college graduate. i got my master's in 2010. here in tulsa, there are 100 applicants for every minimum- wage job. that leaves people like me working two and three jobs. i am curious how society expects parents to be more active in their kids' education, when parents have to work two to three jobs to pay the bills and keep food on the table. host: this is ken in ohio. caller: i had an opportunity to see the job market from the depression on through to now. when i grew up, i had an opportunity for my family to work a lot of hours, but i was on a farm, so we work together.

it was such a wonderful fellowship that we had gathered. -- to get there. i was always interested in what was happening around me and whoever was in power and have oversight over the economic market skewed it, of course, to their advantage, like you had mentioned here. then the unions came in in the 1930's, and after the big corporations had been busted for it teddy roosevelt's trust busting, and then there was a window that went into the 1950's and 1960's, when things were

somewhat equalized, as i remember. people to go out and get a job the next day if they wanted to, because there was an opportunity. but that was cute, because here we work, the powerhouse of the work -- that was skewed, because here we were, the powerhouse of the world. we must remember that everything is in flux. it never is equal. we do accordingly, and i think we have an opportunity today. guest: but caller makes a great point. everything is in flux right now. people's views of the american dream a shifting. whether that is the owning a home are making $35,000 or owning a second home or going to college, it is changing. that is what we looked at in the peace.

host: we could a slidell, louisiana -- we go to slidell, louisiana. caller: it is not as easy for people to get through college these days. funding available to students, the stafford loans and the pell grants, those are not enough. that is not enough for a student to get through college. if the parents are not working or the parents are low-income. now my in, it was very low but i had to really sacrifice -- my income was very low but i had to really sacrifice to pay those fees. students have to get jobs which brings their grades down. when they graduate six months later, many of them have not got a job yet. it is hard to find a job. and yet that loan noticed, as

saying it's time to start paying. guest: the cost of higher education has ballooned of the last several decades. it is hard when so much economic opportunity is linked having a bachelor degree, but cost of hiring is so high. host: what did parents say about the prospect of according college for their kids? guest: a lot parents thought they would not necessarily be able to afford it, or they thought they would have to take out huge loans, or in the case of one woman in south carolina, she thought that she was 22 and and if she ever went to college, it would be something that she would have to do on our own. her parents would not be able to help her. should have to save enough money and take out loans herself. host: did those parents have

their parents send them to college? guest: that was one of the things about the peace. so many people had not gone to college. the woman in south carolina with a huge extended family, and there was one aunt at of multiple generations that went to college. host: does that define the working class? guest: i think it does. they have manufacturing jobs, service jobs over the years, and those service jobs are continuing to grow as the economy bounces back, but as you know, but they do not necessarily pay huge wages. there is not a ton of stability. host: st. paul, minn. on our life for democrats. caller: i am longtime union worker and i am probably making $40 an hour. i look at these people setting

their sights on $15 an hour, and after raise their level of expectation. for the younger people, but they have to understand that success is not easy. they're being told by some of our politicians that success is not fair. we have to change the conversation. guest: i do not think the people that we interviewed are lazy and what love of $40 an hour job. -- they would love a $40 an hour job in south carolina, those wages are very coveted jobs in the area. and yet everyone wants to work there but they cannot hire everyone. jobs like yours, unionize, pain relief well, you probably have a pension and health-care benefits, those are very rare for the working class. host: in new york, that

independent caller. caller: thank you for taking my call. there are a couple of things i like to say. education has to be increased, because a lot of kids go to high school and they're not brought up on what specific jobs they can get after they graduate. that is very bad. there's so many health care jobs they cannot be taken and so many companies importing people from abroad. that can be stopped. the education and the counselors need to in know what jobs are available here, locally. and we do not have to import people for that area and did their needs to be revolution on

several levels. the tax code needs to be revolutionized. the education has to revolutionize, because america is used to be one of the top most countries in education. now we are are way behind. it is totally unacceptable. it is a really bad. guest: as i said earlier, the woman in south carolina specifically went back and got her certification in nursing and wants to become a nurse because he sees a lot of opportunity in the health-care field. people sense of optimism about their economic opportunities depends on whether or not they feel they can build a career in a growing field, or if they are struggling to go from job to job. host: clearwater, florida, an independent. caller: i am from cape coral

originally. my daughter, she is a certified surgical technologist. she works in surgery, ok? whatever the doctor needs, she does selling out, passing tools, and so on. this lady makes $16 an hour. she is up in michigan and she has a college education, $16 an hour. like i say, i was union for 31 years. management and not management, ok? you have to work to make a lot of money, but why don't we pay the little guys like schoolteachers? schoolteachers, they got a union. everyone is against them. all right? what they should do for the u.s. is to bring all of our troops back from the 153 countries that

we are in, troops and 153 countries, check it out. host: we will leave it there. we go to alice in florida for you are our last caller for nancy cook. caller: i want to ask her a question. i really think that education starts idea -- all working-class young person, and they have no respect for the teachers. something needs to be done about that. i don't think they needed to do away with public education altogether. when you go into charter schools coming you have to get about her. i was looking at c-span one morning and they had this man on there, and he was called a

patriot millionaire. as my granddaughter to go to the website and look it up, because he was talking about the fact that they want to create jobs, but they sent a letter to -- host: what was your question? caller: they want their raise the taxes to help people get jobs. host: we had one of those millionaires on our show, and if you're interested in seeing that, go to c-span.org. what about those sentiments? guest: that is a discussion going on in washington, how to create jobs. we have been s state of high unemployment for several years now. people are worried about the economy sliding back into a double-dip recession. if people had it figured out, they probably would have done it already.

host: nancy cook is with "national journal." that you for talking with us. coming up in 45 minutes, we turn our attention to the national school lunch program. up next, a look how credit unions were. first, a news update from c-span radio. >> senior white house at that pfizer david plouffe says that none of the republicans to one president obama job has offered any substantive proposals to lower unemployment. referring to tonight's debate, he went on to say that none of the ideas we are going to see tonight will create jobs in the short term. meanwhile, president obama meets with his jobs council today in pittsburgh as they release their report on ways to improve the country's unemployment rate. one thing the group of corporate and labor leaders will the fis is to improve u.s. infrastructure to put some of the 1 million jobless construction workers back to

work. here in washington, there has been construction for the national parks service says the house where abraham lincoln died has reopened to the public after a yearlong renovation project. petersen house will be connected to the new ford theatre society center for education and leadership. that is slated to open next february. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> a fact base story on a topic of your choosing. every good story has a good beginning, a solid metal, and a strong yen. >> what you need to do for the studentcam competition? ♪ >> you don't need to have the best video. cellphones and video cameras capture good video.

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>> of course i am delighted. the repeal of the 18th amendment. i have said all along that when this was submitted to the rank and file, they would readily see that it had no place in our constitution. >> he has served as governor of new york four times, the whenever to the high school or college jury in 1928, house smith became the first catholic nominated by a major party to run for president, and although he lost the election, he is still remembered to this day by the alfred e. smith memorial dinner, an annual fund-raiser for various catholic charities, and a stop for the two major presidential candidates every election year. he is one of the 14 featured in our new weekly series, "contenders," live in albany, at 8:00 p.m. eastern.

>> to meet current and future threats, our military or must remain the finest in the world. it must and agile full spectrum force that can deter conflict, protect power, and win wars. that is a great challenge, and that challenge will bring about difficult times and difficult decisions. i would tell you as well, it is also an opportunity, an opportunity to shape and changing transform the army, not just to come to terms with fiscal constraints of today, but to better meet the challenges that we know somewhere, sometime, we will face tomorrow. >> possible defense cuts in the near future, the army secretary talks about how the army could shrink and still maintain capabilities. watch the entire intent on line at the c-span video library. it is washington your way. >> "washington journal"

continues. host: we're joined now buying bill hample of the credit union national association. i wanted to start with the bank of america user fees. this is kicked over all of its nest, but it is also a fantastic opportunity for credit unions. guest: this is not new news. we have already known that credit unions offer better deals to the customers and people who use them. i have been in this business, over 30 years, and as long as i've been here, credit unions have always offered up better deal. higher rates on deposits, fewer fees, and when they do charge a fee, it is usually lower. but what is happening now, the size of the increase in the fees from some of the larger banks have really gotten people's attention and they have started to look around. they notice that there are alternatives.

smaller community banks also have a good deal, but credit unions have a better deal than them. that is where the interest is coming from. host: it is starting to make front-page news. this is the front page of the "baltimore sun." the story goes -- let us start with that. are people still going to bangs? guest: people are still at banks, but they will be looking more carefully and more will go to credit unions or sometimes smaller banks. what is going on is that people find there are big differences in the prices that they pay.

one might ask, if credit unions have always been a better deal, why does everyone not belong to a credit union? about 20 million use a credit union all the time. there are a lot myths that used to be true in the past about falling to a credit union. you had to belong to a specific company. that used to be true, but is easier to qualify to belong to a credit union them. people do not know that yet. credit unions are actually cooperatives. they are owned by their members. not by a bunch of investors. as such, the people they run the credit union are not as aggressive as the people who run the bank. they do not market quite as hard. so people do not know about the advantages of switching. but now -- host: is this a new

tool for you guys? guest: we have a website that people can go to. a smarter choice, do a search on that and it will come up. our traffic on that has gone up eight fold because of this attention. people are paying attention now. host: if you want to speak with bill hample, he is the chief economist for the credit union national association for over 33 years. give us a call if you have a question about credit union. the numbers are on the screen. i have a chart here that shows total assets of credit unions versus bank. it is quite a difference. team $0.40ut third

trillion in banks and less than $trillion for credit unions. give us a sense of how many people use them. guest: as a minute ago, i said that most of them used to be occupation-space. if you work for a government agency or a school district, you could to belong to that entity's credit union. but more more, they are becoming residential lead based. if you live or work and worship in a certain area, you can join a credit union. anybody can go open an account at any bank. anyone can now walk into any credit union and open an account, but we're sure that everyone in the country is eligible for les two or three credit unions. you just have to look to find them. host: what are some of the

associations? issuers the biggest question mark guest: is the biggest in the world. government employees, credit unions, basically any large employer typically has a credit union. and what has happened recently is smaller employers will associate with a larger credit union. for instance, a credit union that serves a fairly large company may serve employees of dozens or hundreds of smaller entities and a local area. that is how all lot of people become eligible. host: everyone in the united states could be eligible. guest: yes. host: if the banking feed its people angry enough, it is there in that capacity to take on millions of more people? guest: if everyone wanted a switch in the next two weast, of course we would not have the capacity. it would be cool for that many more people to get a better

deal, but i do not think it will happen. we have the capacity for those who are likely to change over. host: the you have any preliminary numbers of people that have already switched? guest: there is a huge increase in interest. how much of that actually happens, we have to wait to see. go back to the fact that for quite a long time, credit unions have offered a better deal. why have people not switched before? it is a hassle to switch your basic transaction accounts. especially today, direct a pause that going your transaction account, and regular monthly payments coming out. so if you are switching coming you have to close down one, read divert payments to the nets, wait for them to clear, and so people viewed that as a big hassle. maybe assets which -- it is too much of a handle. -- to much of a hassle.

people make it so concerned about these huge fees, it might spur them into action. also, quite a few credit unions have a switch to it. they can give you the forms that you need to fill out and instructions on how to do it. it will be work for the first month or two to make sure the payments are going the right way, but it is certainly doable. in the past, that the inertia has been too much for people to get over. host: but another reason the banks put out, the keys of the number of atms that banks can have come up of bells and whistles on your credit card, whether points, and credit union cards do not have these opportunities. guest: they do. we're one of the best kept secrets. once you discover a credit union and joined, you learn all the

cool stuff that it does. but to the outside world, we did not take money from the government because we failed and put on kulak at about a guy dealing with little kids and how banks deal with their friends after we resurrected ourselves. but credit unions have come together in a cooperative network of atms. this is really surprising -- and people do not know this until they get into a credit union -- we have atms all over the country and most are linked into a simple three network. there are 20,000 atms, which you can use any one of these atms surcharge-free. but bank of america, each one of these atms has its own credit unions logo on it. when she joined the credit union and notice, you can find all of your free atms.

they have access to 28,000 surcharge-free atms. host: according to the "wall street journal," atm access is about 63% of trade unions offering. you grew with those figures? guest: those are correct, but the 60% of credit unions who offer atms serve about 95% of the members of the credit union. we have 7000 credit unions and the banking industry is like this, too. the average credit union is quite small, but most members belong to very large credit unions. not that of 10, members belong to a credit union that has access atms and credit cards that have reward programs, debit

cards, the whole range of consumer financial services is available to virtually all credit union members. host: let's go to the phones. on the democratic line, do you have a question? caller: greta, you have changed so much. host: she will be back soon. caller: i had an account with more than $20,000, plus 01 thousand $12-month certificate. they closed out my account without even notifying me that they would do it. they are saying that it was because of no activity. i know that there is somewhat rule and that applies with the banks, but i think they -- i think they should definitely notify a person. i like to know what i can do to get that money back. i just got notified last week by

bank of america id that to watch. i just found out about it. guest: bank of america is closing your account or credit union? i was confused. host: we might have lost him. guest: credit unions operate under the same basic requirement that banks do in terms of operating accounts. if someone has an account that has been inactive for a few years, often a credit union will try to contact that number and say, are you still there? are we still hearing from you? if they cannot talk to the person after failing to reach them, then they may close out the account. but they will return the money to you. no instance i know of a credit union -- it would not be legal -- closing out the account and keeping the money.

if a financial institution has an account and cannot find the account holder, they have to turn those funds over to the state and the state keeps those funds. you can get the money bag, that is for sure. host: from the republican line, indiana. caller: credit unions, i feel, compete with an advantage over banks in today's world. they operate on old antiquated laws and get tax-exempt status. anyone can be a member of any credit union, but the credit union is tax exempt. in essence, someone can be a customer and yet they maintain this tax-exempt status maintained in the 1940's when they started credit unions. why should they be tax exempt? anyone can be a customer. guest: that is a good question

for the reason for the tax exemption, not everyone can be a customer. second, the reason for the tax exemption going back to the 1930's had nothing to do with who could belong to a am -- a credit union. it is because credit unions are not for profit cooperatives. the return all excess earnings to their members or their retain it in capital of a financial institution for safety and soundness reasons. credit unions are true to their mission of serving people in the not-for-profit way, returning all excess returns to their members. that is the reason they have the tax exemptions. the world is changing new products and services have come in. credit unions offer them. just as banks do. sometimes people say, they are

offering credit cards, why should they be tax exempts? thanks to not offer credit cards back in the 1930's either, because they did not exist. most of the advantage that credit unions offer is not because of the tax exemption. it is because of the cooperative structure per because they do not have to pay dividends to stockholders, banks pay more out in dividends to stockholders than to taxes. host: what restrictions to credit unions have because of that tax exempt status? host: they're still substantial restrictions on who credit unions concerned. and the individual credit union is set -- is restricted to a select group of people. they have much lower caps on their business lending. they do now have access to alternate forms of capital.

but not in terms of the restriction, but credit unions have to operate in a cooperative and not for profit fashion. host: a question on twitter from james parker. guest: they are all free to offer business checking accounts. they are free to make business loans, also. this goes back to the founding of credit unions when the first target out. there were set up for small business people. most credit unions have offered retail and consumer accounts as opposed to business accounts. but some credit unions throughout their entire history offer business accounts and more doing that. host: on the independent line, the grace period -- grace.

caller: i love the credit union. when i first arctic, it only cost me $5 to join. i am retired now, that tells you how long ago they was. even my kids, but the banks going up on their rates, they have switched over to the credit union. when i got my first loan, which i could not get through a bank, i got through the credit union. got love the credit union. host: talk about the loans that credit unions can offer versus what banks can offer. do have some of the statistics? guest: we offer the same set of loans that a commercial bank would do in terms of consumer loans, car loans, student loans, mortgages, all range. we tend to offer them a slightly lower interest rates because of the cooperative structures. we do not pay dividends to stockholders and their use to the modern technique of scoring,

but if you have a story that is important to -- in addition to what the computer says, a credit union is much more likely to listen to that story. grace came here to a credit union and she got a loan. i first came to a credit union when they bailed me out at the end of a summer when they were dumb enough to lend me $200 to get through the summer. that is a common story and credit unions. that is not to say that they will make a loan to anybody. but they are not looking for a loan based on how much profit it will make. if i can make this loan and it covers the cost and it is a good deal for the member, we will make the loan. host: here is a compass -- a comparison to bank averages. this is back in 2009.

guest: those rates are all much lower on both sides because interest rates have been so long for so long. but across the board, on any sort of loan, with one exception, we always find consent or to credit unions -- we always find credit unions offering lower loan rates. first mortgages, because it is dangerous holding on to a 30- year fixed-rate mortgage if your main source of funds is the pauses. most people sell their mortgages -- credit unions hold on to most of their mortgages, but they still have to sell some of them. therefore all mortgages are priced to the same secondary

market. southwark rates are the same everywhere on mortgages. -- so mortgage rates are the same everywhere. host: a question from twitter. guest: some do. the pacs themselves are fairly substantial compared to some banks pacs. the huge difference is that individual contributions from executives or credit unions are almost nonexistent, compared to the contributions from senior executives of banking institutions. credit unions do it through the traditional pac with some essential elements, but individual contributions from the executives of credit unions, because they are not compensated the same as large banks are,

they are in a different ball park. host: from virginia beach, virginia. caller:, i have three questions -- is there an online banking system that synchronizes with quickbooks? that is one question. for business loans, i always find that the loan is dictated by a personal credit check versus your business credit check. curious to know what your parameters are on lending of a personal score or your business credit line. and then i heard i think yesterday on c-span that starbucks is going to be promoting a business opportunity for entrepreneurs,

and i wanted to know if credit unions are part of that program, or is that just for the community banks. guest: on the first one, online banking, quickbooks, that would depend on individual systems. many of them do that. if you go the website of the credit union, they will typically explained that. it is probably a common feature but i cannot say it is available at all. on business loans, that also would depend on the policies of the individual credit union. there are rules they have to follow in terms of safety and soundness, though one is not what did they differ looking at a personal or business credit report. that would depend on the individual credit union. a lot of business loans are small business loans, in many cases, they would be looking at the credit history of the individual in order to make a business loan, especially a member starting up a new

business. but that would be a case by case basis. and the last one, complete ignorance. i do not know of any credit unions are involved with a starbucks program. they may or may not be. if starbucks is arranging a local partners in local markets, how would be incredibly surprised to credit unions were not involved. if it is a single national partner, it would be unlikely to be credit unions. host: staying on business loans, they are capped at 12%? what is the reason for that cap. guest: it was to make sure that credit unions did not give in to stop they did not know how to do. it was also a piece of legislation passed about 15 years ago, because the supreme court had made a ruling that credit unions could not serve people from more than one group. they get only serve one group. it was a 5-4 decision, ambiguous and the supreme court said, no,

the law says that they can only serve one group. we went to congress and ask to be able to serve more than one group. congress passed the credit union membership accessed act, but they threw other things into it, one of which was this new limit on business lending at 12.25%. it was aimed -- it was for businesses who are upset that we were allowed this. and there is no cap on banks. host: if enough people leave banks and bring their money to credit unions, will this start the economy of money if there is that cap of 12.25% on business lending? guest: there could be. we're working on getting a bill passed that would raise that to

27%. host: where is that bill now? guest: there is a hearing on the house side tomorrow. we think there is a really good chance -- right now, when the economy still needs to replace over 7 million jobs that has been laws, not counting the people working part-time, we think that something that is restricting entities from making loans that they would like to make and are prepared to make, it is a no-brainer to get rid of it. host: jane from jacksonville, fla. caller: thank you so much. maybe i missed your conversation earlier and you touched on the basis of shared branching, but that is it not what i'm talking about. i know everyone needs to know what that is about, but what i

was upset with until recently is that i was turned down until it grows my credit. i froze it three years ago to save myself from identity that. i had to pay the $10 to unfreeze my credit and i went to three credit unions to open up the accounts so i could freeze my credit again with the credit card companies. that is not in that banks do not do which is really upsetting when they would not take my money. i was not looking for a long, -- a loan but it seemed crazy that a bank would take my money but a credit union would not. host: is this a common practice? guest: credit unions may want to find out about a member before they join, and one way to do so is to run a credit check. i have not heard of this as a

common practice. you mention shared banking. there is the shared atm network with almost 3000 atm's that you can go to. that same entity runs a shared branch system. you can go and look it up, but it is a really convenient feature. even though we did not have thousands of branches all of the country, we have a network of credit unions so people can use branches of the country. host: independent from mount vernon, washington, go ahead. caller: i appreciate c-span a lot. there are reasonable topics you will not cover. i am with bank of america and i would love to go with a credit union. however, i am in my 60's with a disability pension but would love to own a home.

i am concerned that if i move my money while looking at home ownership that it will mess me up and i will not able to get a loan or get into a house as easily. i do not keep my money in the bank, rather a sock in my shoe. can you advise me? guest: there should be no difficulty in moving money recently in applying for a home run. if, at the time you make the application, you have the money in a sock it will not count very well for your application anyway. you need to get the money somewhere where it is federally insured. the credit union is a great place to do that. it is not like the length of employment, the longest makes the best loan application. there's nothing on a mortgage application that asks where your money is and how long it has been there. moving your money from one

financial institution to another should have absolutely no effect on your ability to get a mortgage. the credit union you go to should have a good deal on a mortgage for you. host: off of twitter -- guest: they can charge fees. there is legislation just introduced in congress by brad miller in the last week addressing this issue. they cannot stop you, but they can make it less convenient to do so with fees and restrictions. there is a piece of legislation addressing that. i do not think that is the limiting factor in people from moving. it is the hassle. it is pretty easy to manage a to get help and do the right things. host: what other push back are you expecting from banks?

guest: they will try. that is one reason why we do have pac's. there is ill will. there is a lot of misunderstanding here. banks think we are just like them but we do not pay taxes. then the same deal but they do not pay taxes. they do not understand that the people who run the credit union do not own it, no stock options. the operate in a very, very different fashion. i am quite confident that congress will appreciate the difference between banks and credit unions and treat us as credit unions. host: banks have gone a lot of criticism for each of adding to the financial crisis. how did credit unions whether the financial meltdown? guest: it was tough on all

financial institutions. however, credit unions and smaller banks were not making the really aggressive the subprime loans to people who could not afford them, making loans solely based on the fact that home prices would go up and even though they could not pay they could just repossess the house. credit unions did not make those loans. if you make an old-fashioned standard mortgage loan with a 20% down payment, if the value of the house falls by 50%, which has happened, and the borrower loses their job, which happened, that credit union will lose money on that mortgage even though it was a traditional mortgage made in a prudent way. it hurt credit unions, but not nearly as much as it hurt the larger banks engaged in the more aggressive practices. host: can you explain what the wholesale credit union is?

there was a story about one year ago when the government took over three credit unions and there have been five taken over since 2009. it is this a concern for the credit union industry? guest: it was a significant cost. a regular credit union, normal human beings deposit money in and get loans. the credit unions themselves form credit unions to deposit their excess liquidity in in to earn interest on. some of the wholesale credit unions were investing in the sorts of mortgage-related securities that, wrapped up in the crisis. some of those larger wholesale unions did get into trouble. regulators stepped in. the cost of resolving of those and paying for their failures, not one penny is coming out of the taxpayer's money.

they do not like it, but they have to pay it. it is a fairly small portion of the reserves of the credit union system. host: is there is an fdic? guest: national credit union share insurance fund. it is exactly analogous and parallel to the fdic. deposit accounts are insured up to the same $250,000 with the same full faith and credit. host: democrat from rochester. good morning. caller: i just wanted to touch base on his last comments. there were billions lost on derivatives by those credit unions. the credit unions themselves have to bail out these wholesale credit unions. it is placing them in peril with financial stability. can you comment? guest: i agree with everything

you said about it -- except about placing them in peril. the have $90 billion in capital, the ability to absorb losses. the losses that will come out of these wholesale credit unions, the remaining amount is somewhere between $4-$6 billion. the total loss initially was around $13 billion. the worst case is that we will take $13 billion out of the $90 billion and they will still have $80 billion to managed the losses. it is a huge expense that the unions have to pay, but because it is taking less than $15 billion out of a pull over $90 billion, it is not putting any credit unions in peril. the way it has been set up is that credit unions pay for this over as long as a 10-year period. this has been spread out over several years so it is not being

taken out all at once. host: mark on the independent line. caller: i'm like to have you comment on the law that is changed in wisconsin to allow credit union boards to suddenly decide to become a profit-making bank without members' approval. guest: this is a real concern. there are 90 million members of credit unions who on their credit unions. those $90 billion of capital in credit unions actually belongs to the credit union members. the problem is most of them do not know it. therefore, it is possible for the insiders of a credit union to convince the members that it would be a good deal to convert from a credit union to a bank. host: who are the insiders? guest: senior management and board of directors. there are consulting and law

firms that go around trying to convince credit unions to convert to a bank charter. in the process, there are pure restrictions to operate a bank than a credit union, despite what some say. the restrictions on business lending, no capital, not serving everybody, so it is easier to run a bank with fewer restrictions. they can say they would do a better deal if they were a bank instead of a credit union. however, then you all of a sudden have a profit motive and have to make money for your shareholders. members are worse off after the conversion to a bank. it is possible that people in the know what the type of the -- at the time of the conversion can buy the stock. the federal law was made to this easier 15 years ago. there have been barely two dozen changes of the credit

unions to charters. i know the ceo of a credit union has been told to convert to a bank in two years that there would have $25 million. he does not make anything close to that but he says he wants to stay a credit union. host: there is a credit union in silicon valley that is trying to do this. the comments their board members are making is that the restrictions on the credit union is impeding growth for the company and they would be able to provide more services for their customers. guest: they could, but in the process, all of their customers would get a better deal under the new system than they would. it is not like there are all sorts of banks available. if their customers were being poorly served, they could go to the bank across the street. as a credit union, because they operate as a credit union, they are offering a better deal. host: back to the phones.

democrat from maryland. caller: i have an important question for you. i would love to move from my bank to a credit union. i belong to a credit union with my mother, but i travel a lot. if the credit unions could tie together the atm systems and you could receive and transfer money from one credit union to the other, that would make them a very powerful entity in they could run rings around is other banks. i would love to move from my bank, and i will not list their name. is there something credit unions can do? guest: if you go to the website for the unions you belong to and look at transferring to other institutions, you can find that you can set up a way to make transfers among any credit union

in the country on line. that capability is already there. the difference is that if you are a customer of a really big bank with branches, you automatically know that you cannot move from one account to another. -- you know that you cannot move. go to the online banking website and look up transfers. i think you'll find you can already do that. as we said before, the atm's are tied together in a national network and the 28,000 atm's, 6000 of them take deposits. much of what you are talking about is already available. host: last call on the the independent line from new york. are you there, jane? i think we lost our. while we have you, we have two minutes left. a big discussion on capitol hill with government regulations impeding growth. but what are you looking at on

the hill right now that could affect credit unions? guest: the government come out part of the cause of which the failure of the regulators or the back of a corporate regulations, they passed the dodd-frank act. although credit unions had virtually nothing to do with causing the financial crisis, we were placed under many of those regulations. right now, we are working out how to deal with most of these regulations. the big difference for credit unions is that these dinar require us to change our business models. they are already customer- friendly. the does not mean the regulations are cost free because we have to figure out new ways to comply. host: are there one or two you can mention quickly that you are most concerned about? guest: the first was the debit interchange rule limiting the amount of these financial institutions could get on debit interchanges.

that is a complicated legislation and so far is not as harmful, but we are concerned. that is the main one. other band of having to fill out new forms to comply, once the dust settles this will be ok. in the process of transitioning, the legal costs of making sure we are complying will be substantial. host: bill hample, we will leave it there. up next, a discussion on the national school lunch program. first, an update. >> 9:16 a.m. eastern. tim pawlenty speaking at his state portrait unveiling saying he may have stayed in the presidential race longer had he known it would be this volatile. he may have continued in the race saying, "if i would have known then what i know now." in the race in august after finishing third in the iowa straw poll. meanwhile, the remaining

presidential candidates are getting ready for their debate tonight at dartmouth college in new hampshire. the university poll has herman cain and admit romney tied at the top. gov. rick perry's showing has dropped from 25% down to 11% of those surveyed. a jury in detroit will hear opening statements in federal court in the trial of a man accused of a failed plot to bring down a u.s.-bound jetliner on christmas day. he is acting as his own lawyer, but an attorney will address the court today. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> it is a story on the topic of your choosing. every good story has a good beginning, a strong middle, and a strong ending.

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this process is both fun and extremely roared. . just a little bit of effort, anyone can do this. >> and has been almost 30 years since a small group from alpha proposed a monument for dr. martin luther king, jr. live coverage begins at 9:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> "washington journal" continues. host: our topic, the national school lunch program. joining us is the undersecretary for food, nutrition, and consumer services, kevin concannon. what is the school lunch program

and why did it start? guest: this is national school lunch week celebrating across the country. each day in american schools, some 31 million children have lunch. the program, interestingly enough, was started just after world war ii when they were reflecting on the war years and observed that too many americans were underfed that when there were drafted into the military that they were not prepared for the burdens they were going to face. it has its roots in that regard. it has been serving children for generations. just this last year, interestingly enough, 60 years later, a national group called mission readiness made up of 250 retired generals and admirals lobbied congress for the successful passage of the

healthy hundred for kids act with a new federal law that provides -- healthy hunger for kids act. it improves access for children across the country. it is part of an effort both to maximize investment we are already making the children in terms of their learning, because there is evidence that if they are adequately fed that they run better. we are very excited about this week with more than 100,000 american schools that will be serving lunch today to children across the country. it is a major part of an investment in health. host: we will get to the new guidelines, but how does the current program work? guest: the federal government reimburses schools collectively through state agencies to the tune of about $16 billion, billion with a "b." there are three categories of

payment for school meals. there is the fully paid meal, a reduced price meals, and a free meal. the income levels are based on the federal poverty level. if the family earns less than 130% of the federal poverty level, the child receives a free meal. typically the federal government reimburses, for example for lunch, $2.75 per meal. host: how much does a meal on average cost? guest: the schools can provide a healthy meal that meets all of the dietary guidelines within the framework of that reimbursement. that actually helps schools. they find they can increase the number of children receiving free or reduced price meals that it helps them operate their meals program. host: how much to the parents or students pay on average?

guest: it depends. i have a sheet here that i need to check, but we reimburse even be paid meal about 28 or 29 cents per meal. schools can be charging over time what that meal actually costs them to produce. we find one of the provisions in the federal law just passed over time requires schools to actually ask parents for an amount that much more closely reflects the actual cost of the meal minus the subsidy that the government provides. host: this person writes about school cafeteria magic.

guest: we are partnered with the school nutrition association across the country. these are professionals and organizations, but all the people in the food line, mostly women, who provide the meals to kid that schools. i have visited many, many schools from one end of the country to the other and we have seen the magic, both the relationship that they have and the fact that they produce these healthy meals on relatively small amounts of money for the actual food product. host: there are new dietary guidelines coming down the pipeline. what are they?

guest: the federal government, through the department of agriculture and the department of health and human services, at the dietary guidelines for all americans. all of us should be guided by about. the 2010 guidelines were released in january of this year. we hired a national organization -- host: we went from the food pyramid to the plate. guest: i brought a copy of that along with me. this is the new icon. i think it is much more easier to understand for the average american. the dietary guidelines basically have said that for all americans, we need to enjoy our food, not necessarily eat as much, and we should eat more slowly, more often. the guide should include more fruits, more vegetables, less sodium, more lean meat, more dairy that is fat-free or lower

in fat, and more of whole grains. those dietary guidelines became the basis of the recommendations for the new school meal pattern. earlier this year, we released to the proposed new guidelines for school meals and we received 133,000 comments, the majority of them positive. a number of people wrote in to say they have concerns about this and that. we have reviewed them carefully, and it is our intent later this calendar year to release the permanent recommendations for schools. host: will that include less to? -- less food? guest: in the past, the school meal programs set minimum calorie levels for the schools. it did not set maximum calorie levels. for the first time, these

dietary guidelines will propose both a minimum and maximum and will also taylor that to the age of the students so that younger children obviously do not need as many calories as, let's say, a high-school student. host: democrat from new jersey. we are talking about the federal school lunch program. caller: calling from vineland. i wish to congratulate the gentleman for the program that is being administered. in cumberland county, and it is the poorest county in the whole state and most are at the poverty level. that is the positive comments, greta. in the past two years, through service has been privatized. they have had some adverse publicity in the past, particularly in the state of new

york where governor cuomo, as attorney general, was shorting them several millions of dollars. what is the gentleman's comment in so far as the privatization of food service, particularly in my area? thank you. guest: wen i hear "vineland" it is famous in the fundamental disabilities arena. i remember that from my days in medicaid. to the gentleman's question more directly, we work with both the private organizations as well as the public unions, as well as the directly school operated through programs. it is a choice that each local school district has to make, but we are clear that both state and federal agencies will not allow

inappropriate or the misuse of these fundings by a particular school, which occasionally happens, or in a contract did situation. our goal is to make sure the children in those schools that healthy meals, appropriately delivered, and that taxpayer bonds are protected. -- funds are protected. host: sunnyvale, calif. caller: the morning, greta and kevin. using your main concern is protecting the taxpayer funds. i think we are creating too much money for school lunches. i understand that the government provides powdered eggs and milk. in order to lower the cost, on

why are we not giving them a healthy diet and providing more grains, and government- subsidized she's like they're doing in the 1960's? -- government-subsidized cheese? why do not cut back on the money providing meals for these children? guest: you raise a number of points, but as i mentioned in my opening remarks, the national group of retired generals and admirals and been very strong proponents of the school meal program, largely because they realized that this is one of the best preventive health investment the government can make. some 27% of american youth between the ages of 17-24 do not qualify for military service because they are so seriously

overweight. they have reproached congress to say that it is not just the nice thing to do but a matter of national security. that is a major investment. we also know that come to the extent that we provide healthy meals and encourage kids how to learn how to eat over the course of their life, we will avoid very expensive costs later in preventative health conditions. the third warrant that you raised, the federal government now provides between 15%-20% of the meal costs through something called usda foods. there are 180 commodities or usda foods that we purchase. local schools have their choice in that regards which helps to lower the cost of that meal. you need to look at the cost of the meal in the context of the

real expenses in schools that are paid in the education of that child. we view these meals as a way to make sure that child and its nutrition supports the learning environments we can get a return on that investment. it host: the annual budget for the school lunch program is what? guest: including breakfast, lunch, and the usda foods purchased, in a round figure is about $16 billion annually. host: families with incomes up to 130% of the poverty level, about $28,000 per year for a family of four eligible for free meals.

host: valerie, and dependents in california, you are up next-- independent. caller: thank you, mr. concannon. when did it become the government's responsibility to feed, clothe, shelter, provide medical care for all of these children? a lot of them are here illegally. at least the fatty foods like pizza and then there are food fights. i see a lot of waste and i do not think that is the government's responsibility. guest: the bulk of the program really came after world war ii. as i meet with people from one

end of the country to the other, including california, i hear a lot of testimony from individuals who benefited from the school lunch program, many of whom grew up in very poor households. it was a major part of the calories than they consume each day. we know that, again, there's a lot of research that shows up to the extent that child has access to help the foods that he or she is going to learn better. you need to look at it in the context that this is an important education in the education and health of the child. these young children will be the future work force of the country, so it is very important for us to make that investment, do this on a science-based basis and pay attention to such things. when you mention waste, but we watch "plate waste."

in the new school guidelines, we are directing that there be less fat in that by it. to the point you made about children choosing option is that really may not be held it for them if they eat too much, we have an answer in the form of recommended school meal guidelines that are coming our way later this year. host: under the legislation that allows the usda to make these guidelines, and also allows schools to raise the prices. by how much for school lunches expected to go up? guest: the third category of the meals are the paid meals. it subsidizes them at the rate of 28 cents per meal. in studies across the country, we find in many school systems that those paid meals for being for the subsidized by the program.

the healthy hundred for kids act requires -- healthy hunger for kids act requires up to 10 per meal over the course of years the cost of those for paid students must truly reflect the actual cost incurred by the schools. it is referred to as a paid meal equity provision and it is very incremental. over time, it will provide more funding for the schools to cut into its environment. host: when was the last time the school or the government raised the price of lunches? guest: literally decades. we are very excited that the healthy hunger for kids act will, for the first time in decades literally, will have

higher reimbursements, but these schools must meet the new criteria in terms of healthier meals. as i travel around the country cannot have been too many schools that are already a part of the healthy u.s. schools challenge, about 1500 of them, and for the most part they are meeting the new standards already. the majority of those schools are doing so within the framework and the reimbursement already out there. host: if you're interested in the new nutritional guidelines and standards that the usda will be setting soon, go to this website -- fns.usda.gov. next caller. caller: there has been so much controversy about the usda proposal to limit starch vegetables to twice a week. i am wondering if the under

secretary can comment on this limit and if it is actually realistic for schools. guest: i appreciate the question. there has been a lot of misinformation floating around. there was a public event with a lot of misinformation about what the proposal is by the usda and the current history. interestingly enough, the usda sponsors something called the school nutrition dietary assessment, snda, and the study done back in 2004-2005 showed that even then the majority of schools across the country were meeting already or were already close to the starchy food provision in the usda proposal. we recognize that the potato is very important just that we recognize other through their very important in the food group. remember that the change this

time through in the dietary recommendations for schools put a maximum on the number of calories students consume of the course of the me a lot school. within that framework, we have made recommendations as it pertains to starchy vegetables. we have reviewed them carefully and paid careful attention to the comments we received from across the country, both those urging a more liberal approach to starchy vegetables as well as those who said they support the standard that was in the first set of recommendations. we are mindful of that, but we are also mindful that studies have shown that many schools are already there. certainly, i listened to and national public radio program from my home state of maine and the school nutrition director pointed out that her school

system was already meeting these guidelines. i think we need to step back and look at what is in the total interest of the child, look at the facts and not the overstatements. host: republican from fort worth, texas. caller: really enjoyed your interview with ken burns' last week. when i was in college, i did substitute teaching at the elementary level and noticed the overall physical condition of these kids. i think it reasonable to attribute their condition in part to their diet and lack of physical activity. why are there soft drinks in the schools? why are there at these high- sugared snacks available when they do not contribute to a healthy lifestyle? you just commented on the caloric anlimits. how can you control the caloric

intake onto drinks purchased by the students even though they get a free meal? sometimes they bring money to school and load up on this? . thank you for being on the show. guest: thank you for your questions. part of the emphasis of both in the dietary guidelines for all americans as well as for schools is to exercise. calories and in come calories out. you really need to burn them off. hence the new school proposed mill standards reflect, again, the age group. there have been minimum calories for students in k-12 whereas now it will be more focused on particular age groups. also, there is a provision in the healthy hunger-free kids act that will provide the

authority for science-based standards for all schools. it will address the issue of too many sugary foods and beverages and will already require low-fat dairy. many schools are already implementing fat-free or 1% milk. we are heading in that direction and i have seen lots of kids once they get used to it that they very much enjoy it. we are very focused on that whole issue of making sure that the school food environment during the day is a healthy one. the kids are not tempted, to the commentators questioned, in going off to a machine and purchasing something that may not be healthy. host: does that mean that the usda will regulate the vending

machines on school property as well? guest: during the school day, it will be for all schools, all food in the school environment including vending machines. i went to one school in rural georgia, the high-school among several schools i visited, the vending machines there now have healthy foods in them. she was serving about 265 lunches in a school of 1000 students out of the vending machine with the difference being the food in the vending machine it was helping. host: here is a story.

guest: looking down the road, i think we will have a more universal approach to science- based food in garments so you do not a kid in the situation of being tempted one way or another. as these healthier foods become mainstream, i have seen in this helped the u.s. school challenges, those 1500 schools, and the schools that a visit oliver, some in very wealthy areas, some in very poor areas, they are already regulating that to the environment. host: back to the article about the healthy snacks, they

complained that they were either unappealing or expensive. hummus was $3. compare that to the typical $1 for a bag of chips. guest: affordability has to be one of the factors realistically. we know that healthy food can be made affordable. schools, for example, can purchase locally grown foods available to the school systems. throughout that as well, we emphasize the fact that it has to be affordable. host: new york on the independent line. thank you for waiting. caller: i would just like to say the importance of having low carbohydrates helps kids. there is a lot of debate about

what constitutes a healthy meal. the incidence of children being overweight along with the high diabetes rate is perpetuated by high-carbohydrate foods. host: kevin concannon. guest: we acknowledge we have a challenge in the book overweight adults and schoolchildren. hence the major set of changes proposed for school meals. and in the overall food environment in schools, both approaches are the collective impact can make a dent in the challenge we are facing as a country. our over-dependence on too many processed foods, in our initiatives around schools, we are encouraging schools to be able to purchase locally. n virginia, two months ago,

we brought together school directors encouraging them and educating them on how to procure locally grown foods economically so that their kids can be exposed. i have seen this in schools where -- i was at a school in southern maine where the kids were eating kale in offer vs. serve. the child was encouraged to do so because they had a hot house in the school where they were growing kale. exposing children to were help the food comes from, it can contribute to improving the kids not only having those cards available but consuming them. host: republican from ohio.

caller: i went to a private school for four years. in that time, on mondays we had chicken, tuesday's we had to get day, wednesday we have burgers, thursday's pizza, fried fish. it is common to have the ritualistic process in school instances? guest: in fairness, it is not. it is much more varied. one phenomenon we are aware of is that within the framework of the dietary guidelines, they vary across the country. i was in the salinas valley in california where some much of the nation's produce is grown and produced. but the ability in that school to provide locally grown foods that the kids are more likely to be used to in their own family environments would differ from

schools in the northern part of the country. in fairness, i think it is fair to say there is more variability of the course of the school week but also in different areas of the country. host: here is a tweet. guest: the vendors for school meals are chosen by the local school boards. this is across the country. everything we do at usda in the food and nutrition space we do through state agencies. typically the state department of education, department of human -- health and human services, or the department of agriculture. those state agencies work with local schools. local schools make the decisions about from whom they will procure the foods. every school in the country has the option of procuring from a

list of usda foods which used to be called a commodity to than there are about 182 down that list. they can pick which of those -- 180 foods on that list. for the rest of that, they can go to local vendors, typically what is done. host: pa., independent caller. welcome, fred. caller: thank you for taking my call. how do they collect the data from all of these different schools all over the country as far as complying with the requirements for the goals of his program? is it objective data or is it self reported? guest: we collect data from schools and state agencies and

then there are provisions to audit the data as well. in the health the under-three kids act -- hunger-free kids act, the audits have increased. we are promoting access to something called direct certification. in the everyday terms, that means a child in a household in which the parents may be receiving public assistance through snap, those individuals have to report their income information to a state agency. that information is then shared automatically with the school system's. it is referred to as direct cert. we find that is a preferred way because we can verify that

information and directly from the initial -- indirectly through the snap program. 72% of the children across the country that car eligible through direct certification are now receiving the benefit that way. it is easier for the child and family, but we also have a further background information and income information to support the rate that a child's meal is reimbursed for. host: what do the school audits look at? guest: they look at a number of things. i was at some schools in maryland last year and i have breakfast with the students. i had breakfast that morning, but when i went through the line with the students i only picked

juice and a fruit. the cafeteria lady looked at me and said, "sir, that is not a reimbursable meal." i told her she made my day because that is one of the factors. cashier's will verify that the meal meets the criteria we set federally for a nutritious meal. we also verify whether the income has been properly reported, so there are two aspects. does the meal qualify? did we have accurate information on the family income tax those are the major -- family income? those are the major ones. it is not automated, but there are adults that will be in line and encourage kids to try different things. one of the major pillars of

school breakfasts and lunches is something called offer verses serve. they can see various items that are offered and they made take those that are preferred. adults would say, "here. try the broccoli." host: democrats in washington, d.c. caller: thank you, undersecretary concannon. for someone who has worked in this area about the proposal to improve the quality of school meals, so we are hoping those get finalized soon and we think it will be great for the millions of kids to participate in the program. earlier in response to the proposal that you had received over 130,000 comments, an incredible amount.

can you talk about the nature of the comments? were they supportive? that seems like an awful lot to file through. guest: it took a great deal of time, but we carefully reviewed them and summarize them. even the summary was 150 pages long. then there was a summary of the summary, sewed speak. but the majority of the comments were very positive. we recognize that we already turning point in the country where we have a challenge of obesity, a challenge in health- care costs, a challenge where retired military leaders have said it is a challenge of a future national security. so we have this opportunity, a science-based opportunity. i do not know if i mentioned it earlier, but the committee that made the recommendations to us had a number of health professionals, nutrition professionals, dietitians.

it was chaired by a pediatrician from the university of pennsylvania school of medicine. we were very pleased by the science-based foundation of these recommendations. we are very anxious to move forward. the majority of the comments we received were very positive. there were some concerns expressed to us and we have incorporated them. when we look at those concerns, we waive them before we promulgate the final regulations. i should also mention that the act provides additional resources for technical assistance for both states and schools. it will come as no surprise to most that this represents significant change. people say that they like change, but when it comes down to it, they have an anxiety attack about change coming their way fast.

we are very committed to working with schools, school nutrition. we ran something this year called produce save the university as a way to help school nutrition staff and leaders to become more confident and comfortable with purchasing locally grown produce from their regions of the country. we are excited about many facets of the bill. host: is every school required to have a nutritionist on staff? guest: not every single school, often school districts. i was in montgomery county not too far from here with a wonderful school nutrition director. i was out there because all 135 other elementary schools have met the criterion standards for the healthy u.s. school challenge. in the act, the healthy hunger- free kids act, it increases the

training requirements for school nutrition directors. they can be over a cluster of schools or the school system. there are various ways to implement that. basically, it recognizes that this is an important profession in the lives of all these children. host: kevin concannon undersecretary for food, nutrition, and consumer services. a far more permission about the federal school lunch system, fns.usda.gov. thank you for talking to our viewers. that does it for today's "washington journal." [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011]

>> the house and senate both need to take at two o'clock p.m. eastern. the house will consider veterans' benefits, and the senate will consider the president's jobs plan. on c-span 3, the senate finance committee goes through trade agreements with columbia, south korea, and panama. we'll be live as defense secretary leon panetta talks about the pentagon budget from the woodrow wilson center for international scholars. next up, all called new york times" correspondent james risen, who faces going to jail for refusing to reveal sources for a book about a u.s. operation in iran. he spoke at the berkeley school of tournament --