music growing up in michigan. and actually, that's where he met mrs. dewey, as well. she had a love of music. but eventually he settled on the law and wound up working as assistant u.s. attorney. a man named george medali who was his mentor trained him above all in thoroughness. the dewey hallmark was we talk about him as a work aalcoholic. in one of the early cases, i mean, he had his men go over 100 -- they traced 100,000 telephone calls and 200 bank slips in order to get a boot lerg name waxy portman proprietor of the eureka company in many ways symbolic of this alliance between corrupt -- well,

prohibition-defying elements and the government, local government. >> so i want to get to a phone call here. but i want to go through some names. dutch schultz. >> well, dutch schultz -- you had portman at the bottom. schultz took away gordon's empire which was largely based on alcohol. but not only alcohol. there was something called policy, the numbers game. and it was gambling for the masses. and again, this helps explains dewey's appeal across the demographic range because millions up in harlem in particular -- millions of poor people were being taken advantage of in this game. the money was falling to the under world. doug schultz was making $20,000 a day.

>> lucky luciano. >> he was the significant step above. doug schultz decided that he would assassinate tom's dad when he got too great and actually the underworld decided that was a step too far and before dutch could carry out his plan, mr. luciano took care of dutch. >> the impact of this to your family, were there threats to your family? >> well, sure. >> what was it like? did you know about it? >> no. i'm three years older than john. what's happening here in 1936, 1937, i'm 4 or maybe 5. and they -- being the peep that they were they would not share that with us. >> would phthalater tell you about that time?

>> no. well, there was illusion to it. but one found out for one self-. >> what did you find out about that, tommy. what were they doing or others doing to try to protect your dad and your family? >> well, he had 24/7 protection and the card, a detective and a driver. i think it was later, the only incident that we did find out about was the missed opportunity to kill him. he had -- he went across the street 96th street where we live to have breakfast every morning and doug schultz had arranged to have the boys there on a morning. and it would have been curtains, except that day he got up early and went to the office so they missed it. and shortly there after, the boys took care of doug schultz.

>> do you think you weren't aware of it because your dad didn't let him bother him? just kept to his routine? was that his personality? >> yes. >> he just went forward? >> right. >> it is said -- it's maybe an exaggeration. i remember doing research for the book that your dad had developed a habit at that point in his life quite understandably that he maintained in his life. when he was in a restaurant, he would sit with his back to the wall. >> always. always. >> you remember that? >> yes. yes. i don't go back to, you know -- >> sure. >> to the 30's. but every time we went somewhere, you know, and later years, it was always back to the wall. >> let's get to a phone call. august has been waiting for us patiently. august, go ahead. >> oh, gosh. it's an amazing story because in 1948 my family moveed up to

duchess county in new york. during that time i was going to school. after school, i used to work with governor dewey on his farm on reservoir road and it was amazing because his farm was probably one of the first farms that came up with automatic milking machines. mrs. dewey had a beautiful garden that she maintained for many years. i remember he had his own personal guard house in front of his mansion. and in 19 -- i think it was 64, 65, their barn burned down. they had a terrific fire, unbelievable. and i worked for little thomas ed mur row on all those farms up there in new york. it was amazing. those farms were so large and so big, they had to raise crops of corn and we bailed hay and

it was amazing. it's amazing that i was listening to this program and couldn't believe it, that i'm sitting here, i'm 68 years old and i worked on his farm bailing hay and farming. >> thanks, august. let's talk about the farm. your father ran in 1930 for governor. he loses and then buys the farm, the caller was talking about. he made a name for himself at this point. decides to run for governor. why, richard norton? >> i could always expect attribute that to his youth. he had come from a farming environment. in fact, during world war i he was too young to enlist an he worked on a farm in the owasso area. my sense is and you thought much better that he was very happy being a dairy farmer. it was a side of him that

probably would surprise the public. i'm not sure that your mother was wild about it. i'm not sure you were wild about living there. >> what was it like? >> well, we were given a choice and i guess to some extent she wasn't either. i remember he was very pleased as the caller had said very pleased to have the early stage milking machines because i remember the period before that, i mean, we -- in the very beginning when we first, i think, we rented in 1937 and then bought in 1938. i mean, people would be horrified today. we were drinking unpast rised milk because that's one did on a farm. and then of course, when he became governor, that guard house was insisted on by the state police down there by the entrance. but, you have -- you have a very good memory of all that, except i would not put ed mur

row and ed thomas in the same category as farmers. they were people who had some land but they were basically broadcasters and they were there for-weeks. >> the caller refer to a man shed -- >> that had a mortgage on it for a very long time. >> which one? >> the house at dapplebeer. >> it wasn't a very big one but it did get paid off. >> why was it so important to your father? >> i have no idea. he just loved farming. this was his number one farming. >> what was the significant of this area where he buys the farm? >> duchess farm is just gorgeous. a little bit of historical footnote. 1934 is the only election where both candidates come from the same county. >> john, you are on the air. john in eugene -- >> hello? >> we're listening, john, go

ahead. >> hello. thanks. this is a great series, c-span. i've really ben enjoying it. quick comment and then question. professor smith, i always enjoy hearing you. i learn a lot. i must correct you on one thing. over here we pronounce it oregon not ore-gone. second question. could you comment on the republican race for in 1944. was there a race in the campaign itself particularly from the republican side? thank you. >> well, there was a race in 1944 which is interesting because frankly, i don't think -- i'm not sure governor dewey thought the nomination was necessarily worth all that much. certainly he wanted a second

shot at the presidency. general macarthur's admirers an we have reason to believe that he would like to have been nominated. flirted with it for a while. but he went john bricker who we already mentioned to sort of run. it was in some ways a half hearted contest. governor dewey did not announce his candidacy, i think until the last minute. it was a quiesy draft. -- quasy draft and it's an unusual year because it's wartime. and the great issue -- anyone who won the republican nomination would have a challenge. it's not just because you're running toward this formidable wartime commander in the middle of the war but you don't know when the war was going to end. and the dewey appeal was that if america was at piece in 1945, it was believed that he

would have a much stronger electoral taste than if the country would be at war. >> good evening. thank you very having me. i want to commendry char norton smith for preserving the history tchs so important to america. they both do a great job. and in regards to mr. dewey, his passion with music from michigan, richard dreyfuss says in mr. holland's o pus. music is not about notes on a page, it's about having fun and passion. that's what dewey had a lot of passion which is missing today. today it's texting. nobody communicates and i think we're losing. we're losing that. and what mr. norton's doing god bless him. you know, i work with governor rockefeller and i met him being in politics and part of that

and also the history of the roosevelt hotel is important. i was fortunate enough to work with phil and tony who did the bully french connection and we shot a scene from the 7-ups in that hotel. and i was in that hotel, you felt a part of history. and the war dorff his tor yeah had a train that teddy roosevelt would have come in because he was in a wheelchair, they didn't want to photograph him. so you're all doing a great job. and god bless dewey for what he did because those are the times when people were close. it was an intimate looking situation. today people are dweeting and it's -- tweeting and it's very distant. and we in the baby boomer generation, we have a sense of stories, great stories. the next generation, they don't even know -- they can't even converse with you sometimes. so again -- >> all right.

we're going to leave it there. we're going off on another area. >> how important was music in your parents household? >> well, dad came to new york to go to law school. my mother came to new york to study singing having won a contest in oklahoma where she came from. they met at the studio where they both studied. dad also supplemented whatever -- he didn't have any income, i guess. we supplemented by singing in synagogues and churches, etc. of course, my mother went on stage singing. i would say it was very important then and it diminished for both of them.

>> really? >> well, they -- they were great opera fans and they had the box at the metropolitan opera which i still have. and they enjoyed the opera very much. i don't think they went to the symphony very much in their later years. while it was extremely important of getting them together, i think it wasn't all consuming later on. >> were there big theater goers? >> fair. not terribly. >> thomas e. dewey is our contender. he ran in 1944 and 1948. he also ran in 1940. we want to show you the campaign announcement in 1939. >> i think i'm confident and that of my associates in the republican party in the state of new york.

i appreciate your support. i shall be glad to lead the fight. >> that was tommy dewey and his campaign announcement in 1939, goes on to run for governor again in 1942 and wins. why did he decide to run? >> one thing that should be mentioned about 1940, he made history in 1940. he had the first female campaign manager that year, a woman named ruth anna mccormick simms. her father was mark hannah, no mean political operative himself, but it was -- it's revealing -- you mentioned him singing in synagogues. one of the things that he did when he was -- in his legal career particularly the racket days when he put out sort of a

-- tough inside. 20% of the lawyers were applied at a time when the old law firms didn't necessarily hire jews. i mean, that's one revealing aspect. >> and let's take a little bit more about his record. he runs more governor in 1942. what does he do if that position? >> oh, gosh. i would call governor dewey a liberal. he used to say that before there was government, there was mayhem. and government rose to meet man's needs. and in the modern industrial society that we live in, that means as much economic security as is consistent with individual freedom. so it was that constant balance. in terms of the operation, he cleaned up the cobwebs in albany. albany had been run by one party for 20 years.

there was waste and fraud and abuse. but in a more creative way, he cut taxes every year he was governor. >> an his record on civil rights? >> he was out in front. new york stated that because of governor dewey passed the first anti-discrimination legislation at the state level in america, it was to be in discrimination or for racial reasons in employment. >> los angeles is next. joe? >> i want to say that i really enjoy his books and how he speaks on tv. my question is about polling. i had heard during the 1948 election and i don't know if dewey was the first one to actually hire pollsters. but one of the reasons that the polls were wrong is that sample with people on cars, that people had drivers licenses and that led to a wrong result about what the election was going to be.

i just want to get more information about that. >> that's a fascinating question. one of tom dewey's best friends was george gallow. it was a personal friendship. but there's no doubt. dewey was fascinated by the science of polling and that's how he regarded it. the big problem in 1948, i think is that they stopped polling. they stopped, even the late polls which by the way, show. i mean if you look at the race they're anywhere from a 5.3 to in one case a 9.3. it's not the kind of overwhelming cut-dry that one would believe. but the demographic issue is legitimate. in 1936 the reason that the famous literary digest went out of business is it predicted landon would beat franklin roos

velt. in america in 1936, the people who did not have telephones were likely to vote for f.d.r. >> david in sioux city, iwoa. >> first time caller for me. so i'm a little bit nervous here. he knew everything about law. whone the radical president -- you have all these other issues like helping the poor, that kind of thing. what were his strengths and what is his worry? what was he lacking and needed a little bit of help? thank you. >> what were his vulnerabilities? >> oh, i think curiously the flip side of his traits there were a lot of republicans. there were a lot of conservative republicans who never forgave him for being a new yorker. i mean, new yorker's has been

the city that people love to hate or at the very least like to misrepresent. >> hold on. would you father consider himself a new yorker? >> oh, he did, absolutely. >> he did? >> yeah. that was back in the days and i did get this from my parents. that so many of the people at the time in commerce and in other areas in new york were transplants from somewhere else as they both were. and they thought that that did not bar them from being real new yorkers. i i think there was a cultural divide in some ways which is still with us in some senses. at 44, he had a difficult different situation. the 8000-pound gorilla was to ensure of his health. we now know that f.d.r. was dieing in the fall of 1944. but it was not something that

you could possibly touch. and the other was the award with pearl harbor and there's speculation as to what if anything the president might have known? and i i think your dad would have some fairly good views on the subject. >> that's correct. well, there was -- not ironclad but presumptive proof that we have broken the japanese code before pearl harbor and did nothing about it. and that was once spread at the time and in fact, i think in the book roosevelt set the colonel up from washington to see him during the company. he said i just you're not going to mention this because there are police who use the same code which is and cost lives.

he sucked it up and never did mention. >> but, it is a logical assumption that general marshall would not have acted on his own. >> that's my assumption. >> james, in los angeles? >> yeah, i'm a -- i was 20 in 1947 and a top secret technician in cars we. -- cars well-. what i'm commenting on is dewey was way ahead in the polls and he ran the dumbest campaign i've ever seen. he was -- he didn't attack truman and if he ran as if he was already president. he started a blockade. pear harbor is being celt up by

roosevelt. then he just acted like he was going to win. he didn't attack. truman was broke. and he recognized israel and they gave him $100,000 for his company. dewey should have been a shoe in but he had the worse company in the history of american presidents that he probably did good in new york. >> richard norton, thank you. >> i've thought that he was a better governor than a president. >> why? >> it is universally recognized today with al smith. >> recognized as what? >> as one of the absolutely

finest governors in a state who has had a histfully gubernatorial leadership. one of the first people who invited up to albany was, a l smith who had a fallen out between f.d.r. and the two couldn't be more different and yet they just absolutely clicked. yet, the reporter said to al smith. he said there's only one thing wrong with that guy, he's a republican. they were great administrators who were what i call practical liberals operating within a balanced budget with dorn the taxpayer and a productive pie vat company. and what does that do for the republican at the time? >> well, it made new york one of the most watched in the

country. they gave us al smith. they gave us the new deal. duew -- the man who had appointed him the gang buster somewhat relatively earlier. herbert lehman was very disturbed and popular governor who because huge favorite to win another term. it's a tribute to the campaign, the excitement that dewey created that he won by 1%. four years later, there was no doubt that you know due bi-would win. he's the first republican in 20 years. and he went on to build an organization some might call a machine. but it was an odd organization. it was a good government. if you can imagine such a thing. >> john in -- >> go ahead. >> i'm not sure that i would --

organization, yes. na machine, no because it didn't outlive him. -- machine, no because it didn't outlive him. >> you're right, machine didn't outlive him but machines can be personal rather than ideological or enduring for that matter. >> like the subject of your next book. [laughter] >> yes. he appreciates that plug. >> let's hear from john from crown point, indiana. >> yes, during the 1944 campaign, tom dewey delivered, i think one of his best speeches of his career in oklahoma city. he really took off the gloves and hit roosevelt. now prior to that he delivered what i call 1948 type of speeches where he talked about home, mother and god and the american flag. but after that oklahoma city

speech, i think that convinced most republicans they had a chance to beat him. i wonder if he had the effect it had on the republican party in 1944? >> thank you. >> that speech reverberated in ways that no one could imagine at the time. there had been remember the famous speech in d.c. someone said there was appear contest between their dog and coat. he was running under this campaign. he was we go getted into this. he brought everything together. all of the allegations of new deal, incompetence, new deal. economic failure. on and on and on. >> this is in late september,

about a month before the election 1944. i think a lot of republicans at that point were close to dispare. they -- he gave the speech. the campaign was broke. dewey and his friends raised $27,000 in order to put together a national radio network. he delivered the speech. it was gallon fa nicing. a pole of 40 newspaper correspondents, 23 of them had come out of roos vet. he had the league change. but the irony is, he later decided and he said, the most important thing of this peach. if you want one reason why, he ran in 1948. he told a friend that was the worst speech i ever did. >> he didn't want to be the

prosecutor. i mean, i think there was some element that he didn't want to be elected as, you know, as the honest cop. i mean, he wanted to be more than that. and it was something about that speech. and i it's hard to believe that your mother also thought that it was some how a departure in terms of dignity and the respect that you show the office, erts, effort, erts. did you sense that tension a all? >> first of all, i was not 12 yet. so i've heard no personal knowledge. but that would have been her view. >> where did he come from? where did that view come from? i think she and dad's mother

disagreed on practically everything. but they both have the sthrong sense of what you havedon't to y attacking the other guy. not necessarily smart and politics, but they were who they were. >> let's show a moment from tom dewey criticizing the new deal. >> the record of this administration as one -- chapter of that failure. but still, we agree that the new deal is a failure at home, but its foreign policies are very good. let me ask you, can an administration which is so dis united and unsuccessful at home be any better abroad? can an administration which is

filled with fighting and that fighting were we can see it be any better abroad where we cannot see it? these things we pledged to you. an administration and which you will not have to support the three men to do one man's job. [applause] an administration which will root out waste can bring order out of present chaos. an administration which will give the people of this country receipts to the taxes they all paid. an administration free from the influence of communists and corrupt big city machines. an administration that will devote itself to the single- minded purpose of jobs and

opportunity for all. [applause] >> richard norton smith, we are in the 1944 campaign, how does he positioned himself to take on fdr and truman? >> is really a question that he cannot answer as to what the status of the war will be. there is no doubt that he ran against fdr and what he called the tired old man. i think it was as close as you can get to raising a health issue. there was a sense of intellectual exhaustion after 12 years. what dewey represented was used and the vigor and energy. in a way that john kennedy symbolically represented more than a turning of the page from

the old as president to the youngest president. he had the same quality in 1944. he could point to his record in the new york. he had not doubted the social programs. -- he had not gutted the social programs that people had come to expect. he made them work better and cut taxes at the same time. >> who was his vice president pick? >> a fellow governor from ohio. he had bad luck with running mates. after 1948, he privately referred to him as that big dumb swede. you might know better than i. >> no. >> what are the results of the 1944 election?

>> he came closer than anybody else. of the four people ran against franklin roosevelt, he came by a considerable at about closer. he won 99 electoral votes. the shift of 300,000 votes in the right states would have actually given dewey a majority in the election -- electoral college. it was the closest race since 1916. >> high. i was wondering. you were talking about earl warren, i think i am right about this. he was the governor of california. if dewey had won california, which i think he may be had lost to truman by a few votes, would dewey had swung the election or would he have one? >> the answer is no.

you are right, he came within 18,000 votes. it was close in california. california was much smaller in 1948 and it is today. an alternate theory can be argued that the man who thought he was going to be governor awey's running mate, republican leader in the house from indiana who served in that role until 1964,charlie was a representative of the farm belt. it can be theorized that if there had been somebody on the ticket who was a sensitive as hallock was to the unhappiness of the farmers that perhaps some things might have been done differently. who knows? >> let's go back to the 1944 campaign. he loses. he mexican sense -- he makes a

concession speech. >> it is clear that mr. roosevelt has been reelected for a fourth term. every good a american will wholeheartedly accept the will of the people. i extend it to president roosevelt my hearty congratulations and my earnest hope that his next term will be speedy victory in the war, the establishment of lasting peace, and the restoration of tranquillity among our people. i am confident that all americans will join me in a devout hope that in the difficult years ahead, divine providence will guide and protect the president of the united states. >> when does he make this speech? >> he made it the day after. there was some grumbling up in hyde park that he had not gotten

the concession on election night. he says to an aide, fdr had worked himself up into a lather over your dad. i am sure everybody that was for president fred out their opponent has hidden defects. i think it was personal in this case. anyway, the last word on election night before fdr goes to bed was, i still think he is an old son of a bitch. did your dad talk about roosevelt a? >> no. >> ever? >> know. >> that is fascinating. >> just another example of turning a page. he is not tomorrow to talk concerned. >> it is not that it was a painful chapter that he did not want to revisit, it is just -- >> if there was pain, we did not see it. >> or talk about it? >> you cannot talk about it

unless you saw it. you are back to his mother and his wife. >> can i ask you one quick -- i was told by somebody who was at the law firm. it's almost too cruel to be true. one year he went to the christmas party -- one year for some reason -- the band played a hail to the chief. the story is he turned it around and it did not go back to another firm christmas party. is that possible? >> it sounds out of character and a possible. >> what does it sound out of character? >> had the band -- remember this was his law firm. at the bandit done that, -- have

the data done that, i think he would have gone on, he would not have walked out. you forgot earlier his major walkout in the 1956 convention after dirksen had dismissed him. he was introduced to give a speech. he got up and walk all the way down the aisle and out of the auditorium. gone. take that. >> i think he had been waiting for years to take that walk. >> he did say that. >> it must have been very gratifying. >> he is referring to the law firm that his father was partner of after his political career was over. he was a partner in a law firm here in new york. what about the role in that?

>> the lot was what he wanted to do -- the law was something he wanted to do. politics was a detour. i think the idea of really creating or recreating a firm -- i guess he did not found it. he remade it. >> it was an old firm which he joined and became dewey- valentine. they had about 90 lawyers when he joined in 1955. he attracted many of the big companies in the united states, foreign governments. when he died prematurely in 1971, it had 300 lawyers. >> let's get to a phone call. >> mr. smith, talking to hank

she lead to is the biographer, he has said that charlie was under the belief in feet through support behind mr. dewey, he would be the running mate in 1948. when that did not happen, it may be the only regret he had politically was with dewey -- >> you are breaking up a little bit. i think we lost paul. the u.n. to take we've heard it? "i heard the same story. there is no doubt that he thought he was double cross. people hear what they want to hear. there is no doubt that hallock the lead going into that convention that he had an understanding with the dewey forces that he would be on the

ticket. >> high. the disney character dewey was named after thomas e. dewey. how did he feel about that? >> i did not hear that. i apologize i did not hear the question. let's move on to cheryl in bakersfield, california. >> i have been calling the series. the one thing that comes to my mind is, what was his relationship with the tammany hall people in the new york city during that time? my mother comes from brooklyn. my father was a californian. it is amazing they always split their votes in the 1950's and 1960's when i was growing up. my father change to republican when he ran in 1948. thank you. >> you might say tammany hall

was the making of tom dewey in some way. he had it drummed into his head at tammany hall was the epitome of political and civic evil. he would spend a significant part of his public career demonstrating the truth of that. >> hello. my name is adam and i am a college student. i actually read part of the book that mr. norton wrote about dewey. i was just wondering -- what did dewey think about his chances of going into the 1948 campaign about winning the race? i know that dewey was supposed to win that race. maybe mr. smith can talk about what were his prospects about

winning the 1948 campaign against roosevelt. >> now the 1948 campaign against truman -- i think the 1944 campaign i am not sure he ever really expected to win. i think he expected to win four years later. again, as we talked a little bit earlier, he was not a complacent figure sitting unquestionably on his lead that you might think from some of the textbook accounts. he was very confident of the fact that public opinion was a dynamic thing. he sensed a slippage in the last few days of the campaign. i think he felt he was almost trapped. he had a strategy that brought him this far. there was no reason to believe it would not carry him across the finish line first. >> american samoa thomas e. dooley, jr. told us tonight, his

father turned the page and moved on. he goes on to still play a role in party politics. what is it? what is the influence? >> imagine being an older statesmen and 1946. -- in 46. that is something. he remains governor of new york for another six years. he wanted to retire. he wanted to get on that business of creating a great law firm. but the great work came along and the party had no one else. he was nominated, he ran again. he was reelected. he was very glad to leave at four years later. in between you have an extraordinary show of political strength. i don't think anybody would have predicted where he and his organization -- his national organization at really puts

dwight eisenhower over the top, write a platform to the liking of the moderates in the republican party. he brings richard nixon on to the national scene at the age of 39. i would have thought your dad saw some of his younger self in young richard nixon. they had some temperamental similarities. >> they did. i think it is easy to say that geography had a lot to do with it just that it -- just as it did with earl warren in 1948. it is also important that you mollify the taft wing of the party. while they are not selecting somebody from the taft wing, nixon was seen as the closest possible die. i was there when my dad said, there is your vice-president to eisenhower. >> where were you?

>> i was at the convention. i was opening doors and carrying the notes as a college sophomore should do. i know that is what happened. i don't know if it was a temperamental likeness or if it was getting the taft wing on board. geographical balance was a big thing like -- it was a big thing back then. >> what your dad used to say, at the end of his life he said, everything came to rule for me. he always like to surround himself of people who he said careers were ahead of them. the fact that nixon was 39 years old was a way of not only mollifying the tact -- the taft wing of the party but projecting

into the future. >> he is successful at keeping the taft wing at bay? >> yes. senator taft unfortunately died at the very early part of the eisenhower administration. it was very touching to see him go to the hospital. he slips into visit taft. it must've been a sore real final meeting in the hospital. i would have loved to be a fly on the wall. >> the you know anything about that meeting? >> no. >> let's hear from bob next. >> good evening. what did governor dewey think of governor rockefeller as the inherit tour of the east republicanism? >> i will defer it to tom pugh was there.

>> you go first. >> there is some debate on that in the book i am working on. i have not quite made up my mind. tom dewey was much more of a fiscal conservative and nelson rockefeller was. there was a meeting to work the end of his life for they are at a party. dewey says, you know, i like you. i am not sure i can of 40. dewey's approach to government was much more fiscally orthodox. he hated that. -- he hated debt. nelson was less restrictive in that regard. >> that is a very nice way of saying that. as far as the nixon vs. rockefeller, that did not

attended the convention because the rockefellers going way back had been a baby his largest campaign contributors, they worked hard for him. there were good friends. my take from that was he thought the party should be nominating richard nixon in 1968. he was not going to get involved. >> it has also been suggested that, quite frankly, his law firm -- he had reasons not to alienate nelson rockefeller. >> i don't know if it had anything to do with the law firm. they were never in d. rockefeller's law firm. i don't think there were economic reasons. i think by that time, he felt uncomfortable with the amount of money that nelson rockefeller had been sent. >> let's hear from debbie. she had been waiting. >> i have a very interesting

subject to talk about. sarah palin and a top pailin and i have been conversing on sessions on the internet facebook. since the occupy wall street has started. >> debbie can you relate this to our topic tonight? what is our topic about tom dewey. >> my question is why haven't democrats put somebody else at office and sent barack obama back to africa where he belongs? >> how large. but go to pennsylvania. >> in 1944, i am a world war ii

veteran. i still have a good brain. but i still remember things. i feel like 1944 it was roosevelt's time. i think dewey was a very smart person. they just wanted to keep him an office because they were at a board. i think if they were not in war, dewey would have won hands down. >> that is exactly as i said earlier. that was the conundrum. you could not know. it is interesting that that comment all these years later reflects what dewey believed. the strategy was that in a peacetime environment, as grateful as people were to fdr, they would have been willing to turn a page and embark on a different kind of domestic policy. >> let's go to bill. >> could evening.

i am resigning in virginia now. as a youngster about 13 or 14 years old, i grew up about 3 miles come governor dewey's farm. i had an occasion on more than one time to caddy for the governor of quaker hill golf course. on one particular time, i remember after the afternoon was getting late and his golf partners lowell thomas, judge murphy from new york city, at where our roots, they wanted to continue playing at the park. they asked me to caddy. it was getting late in the day. i said that i am about 8 miles away. i need a ride when we are through. one gentleman spoke up and said, don't worry eyeball taking.

when they finished, that man got in his car left and i was stranded there. gov. dewey saw to it that i had a ride back to the village. i would never forget that. i was very grateful for him. >> that was bill and new york. mike, staten island, new york. >> had mr. dewey won the 1944 election, what would be his policy as far as ending the war? >> 1944 did he say? ok. >> i think it is a fair question. if you look at the calendar and you see where the armies were in january of 1945, i think at that point announcing defeat was only a question of time.

how dewey might have conducted diplomacy differently if it had been him meeting churchill and stalin -- >> what about the atomic bomb? do you thinkdewey would have doen that? >> it is hard for me to believe that any president after we had spent $2 billion to do this think -- knowing that if he did not use the bomb and if the war or prolonged, quite frankly it might be subject to impeachment. what was the point of -- i think in the retrospective argument over troop and whether it was moral to use the bomb, it is hard to believe any american president not taking advantage of the opportunity to end the war at the bomb represented. i cannot imagine tom dewey would

have -- >> on your earlier comment. dad was bitterly critical for years after about giving away all of those people in eastern european countries into the slavery of the soviet communism. he was consistent on that subject. >> i would love -- i would give anything to see your dad sitting across the table from joseph stalin. somebody who had prosecuted gangsters all of his life. >> let's try to get a couple more phone calls and hear as we wrap up tonight's "the contenders." >> thank you very much for this wonderful program, part of a wonderful series. historically toward the end we did get back to the question of foreign affairs. my question has to deal with toofessor smith's reference his role of an adviser in for

policy at what the relation between the two was and what that had to do with dallas becoming the secretary of state in the cabinet. >> i think you are absolutely right. they all fit together. the relationship was a uniquely close one. intellectually substantive. at one point, your dad appointed him to the united states senate seat which he was unable to hold onto in the election. there is no doubt that john foster dulles became dwight eisenhower's secretary of state as an of growth of the long record of association of creative foreign-policy position he had had with tom dewey. >> he was one -- may be the most senior of data's group of

advisers that went to washington. he mentioned tom stephens, there were quite a number of them. >> one of governor dewey's great innovations was the new york state freeway. it probably did more for your to economic development and everything cents. the man who built the freeway was burt ptolemy. he went on to build the interstate highway system under dwight eisenhower. >> i want to throw out a couple of names as we finish here. >> one of the many of surprising aspects of a surprising life. in 1964, dewey was at the white house. lbj wanted to get him to chair a national crime commission. in any event, he backed off of

that. he pointed out to lbj, if you look at the schedule of your convention in atlantic city? he was meeting with marvin watson who was the president's top aide. anyway, there was a day set aside as a tribute to kennedy. it was up front. dewey pointed out that if this happens,jackie will be there, teddy, and the entire family. there will be an emotional -- before you know it, bobby kennedy will be your running mate. the president on the phone and called watson and said it moved kennedy from day one today for. hubert humphrey became the running mates instead. he was in his death until the day he died. >> they were social friends. >> they were social friends.

>> they spent parts of winter together. i even went to the races with them. >> we are all out of time and gentlemen. i want to thank the both of you for being our guests and talking to our viewers. talking about thomas e. dewey. are contenders in our 14th week series. i want to thank all of you for calling in. a big thanks to everybody. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

>> our series returns next friday. we will be in illinois to talk with historians and take your calls about the campaign and they stevenson. it airs friday night at eastern on c-span. you can see tonight's program again at 11:00 p.m. eastern. for more information, go to our website, c-span.org. you will find it speeches and appraisals. >> let the c-span network speed your source for public affairs and american history. it is politics and even.

c-span 2 has a book to -- tv. showcasing the people and events that shaped our country. all of our programs are available any time at our library. it is washington, your weight. -- way. >> turki al faisal said the right to choice was made in the air to the throne. he was referring to making the interior minister crown prince after the death of his predecessor. he made those remarks at the national council on u.s.-arab relations. this is about 20 minutes. >> ladies and gentlemen, may i have your attention. continue to eat and enjoy the meal. we are most grateful for it has

been hosted by the u.s.-uae business council. fewer americans are aware of it and its role in world affairs than it needs to be the case. it is a confederation, a form of government that united states has tried to establish and accomplished twice in its history. it has failed ignominiously on both occasions. it has proven the lie that arabs are more dis-united than they are united. that their differences divide them from achieving laudable accomplishments.

as speaker, here has been a participant drop the life of this regional experiments in engineering. he is no stranger to the united states or to anyone in this room. he was born on february 15, 1945. one does not put a that specificity of the detail in a resume or curriculum the tape. in this case, it was not only the day after valentine's day, it was also the day after the historic meeting between the speakers grandfather franklin allen -- franklin delano roosevelt. which sealed what had already begun to be a seed.

it had begun to bud and would, in time, bloom. it would also block some. with regard to this special bilateral relationship. he came to his position of leadership and influence in the positions and policies as part of his noble family. they lost one of their most prominent members in the last two weeks. the prince it did his formative education at lawrenceville, new jersey. not far from princeton. he also did his undergraduate work at georgetown university. so many people in this audience also went to school there.

shortly after returning to the kingdom, and he was appointed adviser in the royal court. then, as the director general of the general intelligence directorate, which is the kingdom's primary a foreign intelligence organization, and for the better part of a quarter century he held that position through no end of troubling times and challenges from morocco, algeria, an alexandria and everywhere in between. he then became ambassador to the court of st. james in great britain where it was discovered what was always there -- he was a natural in the area of people

to people relations. and going to affairs and biggin small in all of the corners of great britain. and of being an effective speaker as a he has become ever since then in these conferences on arab-u.s. relations, policy makers. this may be his fifth time coming to speak with us. please welcome his royal highness, prince turki al faisal. [applause] >> thank you. thank you, ladies and gentlemen. thank you. thank you very much. i am overwhelmed.

thank you very much. thank you. i am truly overwhelmed by your reception. i thank you for it. i have come back and attended the sad occasion of the death. i must tell you that for me, the special relationship i had with him, he was my mentor. my first job was with him. throughout his career he was always an example of humility

and diligence. two qualities i hope the rest of us will learn and to keep. this is also a happy occasion because the kingdom has a new crown prince. i am sure all of you have read about him. when i was in the intelligence department, i worked closely with his royal highness and i can tell you that the right to choice was made. it was made up by the council. which was established five years ago by king abdallah to oversee the succession in the kingdom. in spite of all of the predictions of a beltway

experts, the council performed exceptionally well. there is unanimity in the selection when the king nominated him. there may be those of you who, despite the introduction of me, still do not know who i am. to those i would say that if you read the washington post and the washington institute and others, i am that humorless, pathetic irrelevant person. [laughter] i had the distinction of being a skilled diplomat. i had thought of preparing a

speech like the one i delivered last year but it really the occasion calls for something off the cuff and something from the heart without much thinking and preparation. i agree that perhaps i am a humorless. but what is there to be humorous about? particularly when it comes to are part of the world. were we still see longstanding conflicts going on. new potential for conflict coming about, and the turmoil and the troubles that several of our neighboring countries have gone through in the past year. the bloodshed and killing in civil war. not much to be humorous about.

nonetheless, that's does not give us the excuse not to work and not to try to overcome these challenges. as the people of libya have shown, when people put their minds to the task, they can withstand all of the challenges and suffer of the sacrifices. in the end, they achieved a victory. i applaud the ambassador of libya who is here and, through him, the people of libya. if we go from libya to syria, we see a situation where the bloodshed continues. in spite of the efforts, whether by individual leaders like the king of saudi arabia or the arab league or the international community, the government of

syria is bent on continuing its merciless and bloody attack on its own people. if we go to yemen, we find a similar situation where, despite all of the efforts in trying to beat -- bring peace to the country, who devised a transition plan to achieve peace, yet the bloodshed continues. in bahrain, it went through a turmoil that it does not deserve. we all know them. and other religions. they are a people of peace. they are a people of commerce.

and a people of enlightenment. they do not deserve to go through the troubles they have had. when bahrain ask for support from the countries in meeting the challenges of its peoples, that support was in the form of military units that went there not to quell demonstrations or two of arrested the demonstrators, but to protect the infrastructure facilities. bahrain is not a wealthy country. they do not have oil to sell. they refine it and then sell it on the market. the refinery is an important and life giving institution. the units that went from a saudi

arabia and qatar went to there to protect the refinery, the airport, the seaport, and the commercial center. none of them were involved in any quelling of rioters. if you take a satellite picture, you will see that there containments are were those installations are. these are very strict orders by the leaders to the commanders of the forces that went to bahrain. remaining in all of this turmoil, and not mentioning iraq and its unresolved and work

in progress developments, with a government that is still not representative of all of the people, but clear and apparent interference from iran. with united states coming to withdraw its forces from iraq, i have maintained that there is a need for a resolution declaring iraq's territorial environment. it is a world responsibility to protect the territorial -- territorial integrity of iraq. it is the responsibility of the united states, having undertaken that invasion, to push that resolution through and to see that the rest of the

world abides by it. this will not only quell any internal centrifugal ambitions within the iraqi society, but it will also hopefully challenge any outside ambitions that may develop on the territorial integrity of iraq. if we go from there to the lamentable open wound of palestine, what do we see? we see a people who are still occupied, who are still colonize, whose territory is still being stolen day-by-day by an occupation force that it defies all of the united nations

resolutions and international law. and without account to anybody. when this administration made a stand on settlement building in israel, the result was that israel defied the united states and not only continued to increase the sediments but also to challenge the leadership of the united states in trying to achieve peace between the israelis and their neighbors. have any of you seen the movie "the mouse that roared," with peter sellers portraying the duchess and the other

characters? if i remember the movie correctly, having seen how world war ii went and united states coming to the rescue of europe after the devastation, deciding that they will have to declare war on the united states so that united states can, and develop them. -- come and develop them. i remember laughing because peter sellers was such a wonderful actor. the whole idea of invading the united states in order for it to come back and fix things was so humorous. is it so humorous anymore how we see israel is treating the united states? and the leadership of the united states. it is an incredible and totally

phantasmagoric situation. when i was watching the prime minister lecture president obama in the oval office on what israel will or will not to do, i was flabbergasted. the audacity of the man. is that acceptable, ladies and gentleman? is it conceivable that to this country, i brought this book with me. book.not mao's red [laughter] it is a book about the united states constitution and the declaration of independence. i will read to you a sentence

and by that most marvelous of leaders, unique in his time and all time, mr. thomas jefferson who said, "we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, among these rights are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. " this is your legacy, ladies and gentlemen. you americans are there to admire and emulate. i cannot understand why that cannot be applied to the palestinian people.

how can we see the united states standing in the face of the palestinians when they want to declare their state in the most reasonable and the most legitimate and unalienable right that they have, like any other state? and the u.s. says it will veto that. that is unacceptable, ladies and gentlemen. you as americans cannot accept that. we as arabs will not accept that. this is where my contention that the vetoing of statehood for

palestine, not only will it affect the relationship between saudi arabia and the united states but also with the rest of the world. not just the muslim world. it is the whole global community that except palestine as a state and only the u.s. that objects to it. this, ladies and gentlemen, is something that only americans can fix. what i can say is that in the arab world, and i include myself, we want the americans to fix this.

because of our friendship with you and because of such wonderful words like mr. jefferson left to humanity. if i were to quote other words there would be volumes and volumes of eloquence and rhetorical exuberance that we have always held high in esteem and respect. this council is one of the instruments and institutions that works to overturn what is definitely an unjust position by your country. i see faces of mothers who are equally committed to that

principle of order -- overturning the and justness of your stance. i wish you success. as a saudi who spent his youth in your country, other than georgetown, i still expect from the united states the right thing to do. thank you very much. [applause] thank you. thank you. thank you very much.

>> he has to go to georgetown where he teaches. he will be teaching a course filled with information and insights and revelations we have been privileged to receive here because he shared them with us. thank you. >> thank you for your willingness to stay with us through a dynamic scheduling period. we hope that you can remain with

us and throughout this friday afternoon which may extend along your than we originally thought. that said, this next event is one you certainly would not want to mess. the widow of j. william fulbright, and i never failed to meet a fulbright scholar throughout my travel. we know the world as a better place because of that program. she was introduced earlier. we know that she is, in her own right, every bit as much of a force for international understanding and the peaceful resolution of disputes as was her wonderful husband. i will not go into the details of her biography because it has been presented.

but we're grateful to have for on our stage. [applause] >> thank you. i am standing here to introduce the ambassador who is a first- rate diplomat. we are happy to have him with us. born and raised in libya, he started his career in 1968 and went on to malaysia, argentina, and brazil. he has also held a variety of positions him in the ministry of foreign affairs and then on september 2011, and he presented his credentials to president barack obama. we are happy to have him here. he is the first ambassador to

the u.s. from a free libya. he practices his profession according to one of senator fulbright's more memorable statements. the making of peace is a continuing process that must go on from day to day, year to year, so long as our civilization shot last. our participation in this project and the process is not just to the signing of a charter, it is a daily tasks, participating in all of the details and the decisions which constitute a living and growing policy. it is my great pleasure and honor to the present the ambassador. [applause] [applause]