there seems to be folks who are frightened and anti. the people who are happy and pleased may or may not vote. the people who are angry and frightened, they are coming. that is the sentiment that seems rampant right now in the country. certainly, alive and well in arizona. with all due respect, the sheriff probably russell pearce, however the specialized in telling people you have every right to be afraid and those are the people who are responsible for your fear. i think people across the country are willing to tap into that. i think in many ways,.

i like gen. i do not think i voted for her. but i like a fine. she was reluctant to sign 1070. issues convinced by her advisers that if she did not sign or go along with it, she would never get the nomination. at the time she made that judgment, she was running third or fourth in the polls in her own party primary. once she signed 1070, she had a free the ticket ride at disneyland back at the governor's office. [laughter] >> tom, you are a friend of congresswoman gabrielle of difference. you have known her for a long time. you have worked on her campaign.

is she in any way a typical arizona politician? >> there are many kinds of political leaders in arizona. but i will say this. i was a journalist for 10 years, a daily newspaper reporter. it is absolute enough money to give indication of your -- it is absolute and asthma -- to display any kind of a bias except for someone like gabby who never really had a bad thing to say about people she disagreed with. the way she thought about the problems in the state was so thoughtful, so wonderfully pragmatic. she knew had to get things done.

she did so in a way that sought to bridge divides rather than exploit them. i saw enough of that to take, for me, which was a very huge step and work for this political candidate. >> she won by a very small margin a couple of years ago against a virtually unknown candidate. is she in sync with the voters in her district? what do you think? >> part of the reason why i felt so strongly motivated to write a book about this is because i almost did not recognize my own town in 2010. i came back there to once again work for gabby. there is something in the oxygen, something i had not recognized before. i have been watching arizona politics a long time. i have a great fascination with

it. something just filled creepy, though -- something just felt creepy, the way she was so vilified and so much content in her direction. she has eight tremendous amount of sanfor-- had you feel about r name done up in this way? and she just sort of shrugged. i am convinced that the atmosphere in arizona, in the eight weeks leading up to the shooting, played a role. social context plays a big part even in the seriously mentally ill i.

i do not think this happened in a vacuum. >> let me make a quick point. >> go ahead. >> one of the things that i think helps us tell us where we are in arizona is that one of the people who is now viewed as perhaps not conservative enough to really be viewed any longer as a real conservative is barry goldwater. we have gotten so incredibly askew that people like barry goldwater is viewed as perhaps that he had a hidden liberal gene that nobody knew about. i had occasion to serve with sandra o'connor. her confirmation to speak -- many people thought i was being ugly because clearly she was to the right and we did not need her on the supreme court. many of the folks were leaders here and now you harass some kind of liberal crazy person.

justice o'connor has come back to arizona, trying to create an arizona with civility and comity and fairness and just good old common sense still allowed in the political arena. it is what people call now conservative which i do not think is really conservative at all. >> based on your long experience in the legislature, a lot of what you just mentioned and what we have been talking about, the coarseness of the political system where someone can move here and run for political office and extreme can -- extreme positions generally takeoff, it seems that a lot of the responsibility for that life anare the political institutions we have here. we now have the state

legislature that cycles through people and does not have a long career like you had. the members of the bodies themselves do not particularly value -- do not place a value on governmental institutions in the way that careerists formally have. >> predecessor said that some of the worst things that could ever happen in the congress have been in the name of reform. i would tell you that term limits have been an unmitigated failure in the state. frankly, the institutional memory that if certain things at bay is now gone. people come for it used to making name and move on to something else. therefore, the people who take care of the institution are no longer there. when i served the house for 26 years, it was my house.

you did not come to my house and bring that garbage in. you kept the garbage outside. the other thing that i think has changed is that we did something that i support, which is public finance. but we did it without fully understanding some of the negative effects of public financing. because it is not tied to parties or some organizational institution, anybody who comes in and can get a few people to find $5 can now run. so people come in and they're free to run separate and apart from the institution that used to help govern, condit, cal and organizations, -- conduct, county organizations. they now come in and play lone ranger. you are out there and you can come here and you can meet the

two-year to three-year requirement and you are free to run. i think it has certainly had an unexpected negative effect. but i think term limits, even though i am the poster child for term limits, it has been an unmitigated failure. >> the supreme court struck down arizonas campaign finance campaign arizona's finance system. what do you think about whether arizona is an innovator when it comes to matching funds, campaign finance? >> arizona was one of the first adopters of the so-called clean elections program on the state level. yes, arizona was an innovator. as i was saying about the immigration law earlier, there were not a whole lot of models in effect.

they would not listen to us geeks in the political science world who said you had to pay attention to this because it could fail. later adopting states have seen some of the negative consequences, some of the too much democracy that i was implying where there is no screening process, no quality control when it is so easy to qualify for public funding. so, yes, arizona was at the forefront of that. everyone knows it is because we have direct democracy here. there are all kinds of institutions that do not get adopted where the people connected to try the amount that have some fairly negative consequences. >> you have spent some time focusing your attention on redistricting in arizona. this has been very divisive. where is arizona compared to the

rest of the nation when it comes to redrawing its maps and what have those meetings the like? >> the meetings have been fascinating. arizona is at the back of the pack. we are talking about leaders in some respects, but in redistricting, we are behind schedule compared to every other state. hopefully, we will get a map approved in time to have our elections in the next cycle. but the outpouring of what we can call passion from citizens who are concerned that the process is being hijacked by various interest has been really striking. i spend a lot of time at these meetings and i talk with a lot of a citizens to comment, especially the citizens who come to every meeting to be watchdogs, and there is no doubt that these are very sincere

individuals who are concerned about the state. they are concerned that redistricting is going in a terrible direction by their standards and that there will be horrible consequences for us for the next 10 years. i do not agree with that assessment, but i am really amazed by the degree to which these folks have been motivated to be involved. as i said come up passion, in some cases, is a polite way of describing the tone. >> arizona has run into trouble with the justice department in the past. >> one reason why it is taking so long as that they really want to get pre-clearance for the department of justice looks at the map and says, ok, you're not ruling things back for minority community so go ahead with this map. commissioners want to achieve pre-clearance. they do not want to have things

get held up any further. i think they're making good- faith efforts and they have qualified people advising them. but it is really hard to know what the department of justice will do. every case is different. it is different from you to year. you cannot look back 10 years ago for clues are lessons to prevent another doj objection. i think they have a high likelihood of getting the map cleared. in some instances, they may have been bending too far over backwards to make sure that they get the doj clearance. >> one of the things that people do not know about arizona, people who live outside is that they think of arizona as a place where art is the only democrat in the whole state and is a republican-dominated state. it is roughly one-third independent, one-third

republican, won third democrat with the republicans having a slight advantage. is that right? do you think there is a misconception that everybody in the state, you and a few other people aside, are republicans? >> a think there is a misconception in part because the democrats have been so successful of late. but the reality is that the fastest growing group right now are not republican or democrat, but independents. i think this state is having a revival in being competitive. historically, from state would -- from statehood, a democratic state. one of the things that interests me is the whole idea of competitiveness. one of the real problems we have had historically is that these

are democrats and these are republicans that we can fight over. if i had my druthers, all three are competitive. it is an opportunity to give us a better blend of r and d and independence. they tried to appeal to folks who live in the middle, who try or lefte right-wing r's wing d's. >> you spent a lot of time knocking on doors during the campaign. tell us about what arizonans believe and what they're like politically. >> but did point has been made about the rise of independence. it is -- a good point has been made about the rise of independence. it has made arizona less independent.

30 percent democrat and 31% and rising independent. the primary elections with in the 30 districts in the state legislature are completely correct. two or maybe three of them are competitive in any year. because so many people have blood out of their political parties, you have candidates who find it advantageous to play to the really hard core base in both these parties. so you get the people that are really motivated to vote. and they do so for quite emotional reasons, fear being a large one. i do not mean to impugn one side or the other. this is a big part of the reason why state government tends to attract those for whom getting along with the other side is not a priority because it was not their path to the

seat and it is not what will keep them in that seat. >> something that is a really well kept secret about that survey is research and election results showed that the overwhelming rejectty of people who rejecte party labels register as independent. the main difference comes into primary participation. once you reject the party label, then you are not automatically able to participate in that party's primary anymore. so you get that polarization in the primary electorate and you have more extreme nominees, presumably on both sides. but those independents are not swing voters. most of them are reliable republicans or reliable

democrats. >> let's thank jennifer, art, and tom for this great discussion. [applause] >> thank you, a panel appeare--k you, panel. we are now to the q&a portion of our program. there are microphones. >> my name is jerry. i have been in arizona since 1990. i moved out here from california. and i was born and raised on a farm in texas. i also worked on wall street, but don't tell anybody that. [laughter] i suggest that we are not in the

forefront of politics because of the small population that arizona has. we have been hijacked by the radical right. and they have sold us a bill of goods when we are in fact being taken for granted. do you agree? [laughter] [applause] >> thank you very much. does anyone on the panel want to take that? >> i really think that the problems we face here really transcend politics. it is easy to sort of see this as a left/right thing. i think we have an economy that was founded for so many years not on a manufacturing base but essentially on a life style

base. it was arizonas plan -- arizona's plan to push the urbanized area further and further out. this is not an assumption. there was a rise in home prices and cheaper counseling and an endless supply of other americans who were willing to -- cheaper gasoline and an endless supply of other americans were willing to come out here and reinvent themselves. in 2008, our real estate industrial complex broke down. when that happened, you saw an enormous outpouring of emotion and fear. >> my name is catherine morning. i have been in arizona not quite four years. there are national realizations that have strong positions on abortion, guns, immigration, many issues we have talked about. to what extent do you think these organizations sort of shop

around for a good place to push their agenda and arizona is one of them or to what extent do you believe that some of the things we discussed are really coming from arizona citizens themselves? >> again, my view of the universe is probably different. but because of our initiative, a lot of folks, when they push initiatives and they are basically western phenomenon, they look for easy places to do them. arizona is certainly one of those. i think we simply have become one of several states that have become battlegrounds for trying out new things, if i might call them new things. i think that a good deal of what is going on is imported. but frankly, there is a lot of indigenous madness here as well.

while i would like to suggest otherwise, because i am in need, a lot of it we have brought upon ourselves. >> initiative movements are quite rare. you look at studies of sponsors and origins about measures, not just in arizona or not just arizona specifically, but in states with the met -- with direct democracy, over time, this has been an increasing trend that a higher percentage of them are top-down, driven exactly the way you suggest, by entrepreneurial organizations. before we cast anything, this is a tactic that is available of all political persuasions. the example that came to mind is one of my favorite supreme court cases where the naacp was looking for the right venue and the red plaintiff. for good or for evil, which side is good and which side is evil depends on whicwho is doing it,t

has been around a while. >> arizona seems to be especially willing to take on controversial views that they sometimes no will be challenged .t the court's and they're willing to push them to the supreme court and they relish this and they believe with the current court that they might be able to change presidentprecedents. so there may be something here that does not exist in all other states. we will push this even though we know that previous court decisions might not be in sync with what we are doing. >> this is an open point in our culture. in that sense, arizona does become a crystallization of the many discontents that are riling in the rest of the country.

in the kansas territory in the 1850's or mississippi in the 1950's, these have a geographical focus. those are extreme historical examples, but we do see that for a nominal -- that phenomenon in arizona. >> thank you again for coming tonight. see everyone at the reception. thank you for coming. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> tomorrow, and look at the impact of the super committee's inability to reach an agreement.

later, a look at a on a bet on whether the u.s. education system is to blame for the lack of skilled workers for companies to hire. that is live at 7:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. tomorrow on newsmaker is, democratic representative raul grijalva. that is that 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span.

the >> of the story of the civil rights movement cannot be told without birmingham, alabama. we look into the literary life of the city on book tv. a bomb rocked the 16th street baptist church, killing four young girls. that story is told through the eyes of a family member and friend. even under hazardous working conditions, people thought to work at the con mill in jackson filled -- in jacksonville. on american history tv, stanford university professor on how martin luther king's letter from jail turned the movement. and tune in sunday at 6:00 p.m. eastern as the curator continues with a discussion on birmingham

during the great depression. this weekend on c-span 2 and 3. >> of the official white house christmas tree arrived at the white house today. firstly michelle obama and sasha and melia obama got a look at it as it arrived at the north portico. it will be decorated to honor military families.

you take care.

happy holidays. bring her in. load her up. >> next is our c-span series "the contenders." tonight, the campaign of george wallace. later, a discussion of race in hollywood with a panel of african-american actors, including harry belafonte. >> good evening, and welcome to "the contenders."

we come to you live from the governor of the mansion in montgomery, alabama, wartime -- as we look at the life and times of the political candidate george wallace. elected governor of alabama four times, george wallace lived here for 20% of his life. before we begin our conversation on george wallace and his legacy and introduce you to our guest, here is a look at his political style. >> if you cannot decision at -- distinguish at harvard harvard between honesty and -- honest dissent and being over active, you should -- and an overt act of treason, you should come down to alabama and we will show you some law down there. both national parties in the last number of years have about down to every group of anarchists that have roamed the streets of san francisco and los angeles. [applause] now they have created themselves a monster and the chickens are -- of frankenstein's monster and the

chickens are coming home to roost all over this country. i love you, too. i sure do. [laughter] i thought you were a she. you are a he. oh, my goodness. in california, a group of anarchists laid down in front of his automobile. threaten his personal safety, the president of the united states. if you elect me president, if i come to arkansas it will be the -- and some of them lie down in front of my automobile, it will be the last one they ever lie down in front of. last thing ever. >> we are joined here in the governor's mansion -- in front of the governor country mansion in montgomery, alabama -- two miles south of downtown montgomery. dan t. carter, the author of "george wallace -- the politics of rage." dr. carter, you describe george wallace as the most influential loser of the 20th-century. what you mean by that? >> in the 20th century lost a --

with the rise of conservative and i cannot think of anyone more than influential, not so much in creating ideas, but in showing there was a tremendous amount of support in the country for what was at that time the new conservatism that ultimately evolved. >> what is the new conservatism? >> it meant more lost over the -- it met a more pies over the -- metamorphized over the years, but in the early stages it was very closely went with the activism of the federal government and, particularly, the flashpoint of the civil rights movement. that is where george wallace got his start, but it was something that was far broader than simply what was happening in the south. >> george wallace was first elected governor of alabama in 1962. where did he come from? >> barbour county, one of the most politically active counties and areas of alabama.

as somebody said, there was not much to do except get involved in politics, so that is what george wallace did. he turned out to be very good at it. coming back after world war ii having served as an engineer, the-29 engineer, flying in the pacific, he ran for the state legislature, easily won. he was an up-and-coming figure. he then was elected judge. he was so popular he decided to run for governor in 1958. the problem was he ran as a moderate. >> what is a moderate in alabama? >> a moderate in alabama in 1958 was someone who emphasized law and order. certainly governor wallace was a segregationist just as much as his opponent, john paterson. there were nuances you had to listen for. when judge wallace, as he was then, emphasized that he was born to uphold the law and -- he

was going to uphold the law and criticized his opponent for having the backing of the ku klux klan, that was a way of saying to voters i am a segregationist, but i am a reasonable segregationist. -- or rational segregationist. i am not going up lead in the violence. he lost in the primary. that was tantamount to being elected. john paterson ran, as he himself said later on, as a stronger segregationist candid. that is why wallace lot. at that point, i. -- i think he -- he faced a critical kind of crossroads in his career. there was no place for him to go except to tap into the rising tide of anti-government conservatism, which was at that time built around the civil rights movement. >> then he is elected easily in 1962. what did he change?

>> he became a much stronger opponent of segregation and -- proponent of segregation and essentially -- later on we associate him with a standing in the schoolhouse door. "i will stand in the schoolhouse door to prevent segregation." that is what he did, although he had to back out of the door pretty quickly. >> he ran for president in 1964. after two years as governor of alabama. when he ran the democratic primary, lyndon johnson had become president after the assassination of john kennedy. johnson insisted he was too busy, so he did not actually run as a candidate. he had a series of surrogates in the democratic primaries. >> when wallison announced he was. when wallis announced that he was going to to run for the

democratic primary, nobody paid any attention to him. he got about two paragraphs in the "new york times." when he went to the northern states in 1964, the governor predicted he would not get 1% of the vote. he got 33% of the vote. it stunned everyone i think it was at that moment that pundits, political observers realised that the separation in the south, was going on in the south was not just southern. clearly there was a constituency for someone like wallace. and about segregation as from the south. >> george wallace ran for president in 1964, 1968, 1972, and 1976. in 1968 he won five states and 46 the electoral votes. that is the last time an independent candidate has won any electoral votes. here is george wallace announcing in 1968. >> over the years i have repeatedly stated that one of the existing political parties must offer the people of this

country a real choice in 1968, or that i would lead a political effort that would offer this choice. i have travelled throughout our country in the past year, literally from concord, new hampshire to los angeles, california, to miami, florida. the american people are hungry for a change in the direction of our national government. they are disturbed and concerned about the trends being followed by our national leadership. there has been no response by any of the parties the which showed the american people that they are heeding the growing the solution that amounts to a one- -- disillusionment that amounts to the one-party system in the united states. no prospective candidate of the two existing parties or anyone in leadership positions have come forward with any indication that there will be any difference in their platforms. no one has suggested that the wishes of the american people will be heard. so, today i state to you that i

am a candidate for president of the united states. my wife, the governor of alabama, joins me in this decision. my wife and i, together, in making this announcement are carrying out our commitment the people of alabama made during her campaign in the year 1966. i will run to win. we will, of course, discussed in depth as time goes on the issues and our solutions to problems that face the american people. >> dan carter, what was george wallace so successful in 1968? >> his campaign was successful for the reasons he was usually successful. he had an almost a natural -- almost on natural -- unnatural

ability to size up both the audience as he spoke to and public opinion. a couple of pollsters used to say -- i always listened to what governor wallace is going to say because i knew the next time i would call that is the way it was quintuple. -- the next time i poll, that is the way it would poll. that may be an exaggeration, but he was certainly aware that in 1964 he may have seemed like a flash in the pan, revolving around the civil rights act of 1964. that was the main issue then. by 1968 you have riots in the cities. you have the anti-war movement. you had a general reaction throughout the country as americans realized the civil rights movement was not only having an impact in the south, but the passage of the civil rights act in 1965 was to affect the rest of the country as well. everything from housing to jobs. suddenly there is a constituency -- he knew it was out there -- opposed to the activities of the federal government. ly the role of the

courts, the role of the presidency and johnson. the great society. he knew that as an independent candidate he also had the possibility -- and it was a long shot. he did not think he was going to win, secretly. but he knew there was a possibility they could get enough votes as a third-party candidate to throw the election into the house of representatives, something that had not been done over 100 years. >> was that his goal? >> he was running for president. he always thought he was going to be elected. but he was pretty realistic and realizable was a long shot. in 1968. he was also thinking about 1972. even if they did not win in 1968, he saw himself as stronger by 1972. he was not governor at the time in 1968 when he was running. >> his wife, lurleen wallace, had been elected in his place in 1966. because he could not succeed

himself but that time. she practically died in office. albert brewer succeeded her and supported him in that campaign. he was not governor, but he did have the support of the state of alabama pretty successfully. >> what was happening in april, 1968 when martin luther king was assassinated? what was george wallace's reaction? what did he do? >> he made perfunctory remarks about how tragic it was and talked about it a couple of times. he really did not respond publicly very much. he responded earlier much more to the assassination of john kennedy, despite the fact that he always saw kennedy his foil for standing in the schoolhouse door, trying to keep out black students in 1963. he really respected him.

when kennedy was assassinated, it disturbed him deeply, i think, in part because he realizes that the assassination of a public figure like kennedy could happen to him as well. >> you have a picture in your book of president kennedy touring alabama in 1963. not a picture that jfk wanted to have published. >> he made every effort to make sure he was not photographed side-by-side with george wallace. for him it was politics. he may have not liked wallace. in some ways, he admired his -- his brother in particular admired his political skills. he did not like him, but he realized that politically this was not going to do him any good to have this picture next to governor wallace. >> there is the picture. you could see it was sticking by -- it was taken by a a long

lens. jfk getting off the helicopter and greeting governor wallace. what was his reaction in june 1968 when rfk was shot? >> he really did not like robert kennedy. they had had a number of disagreements. they had met at some great length in the month preceding the standing in the schoolhouse door. once again, he used it to talk about the rise of lawlessness in america, but i do not think he was deeply touched by it at all. >> dan carter, in 1968, how serious did hubert humphrey take -- did president nixon and hubert humphrey take george wallace? >> humphrey worried about him because he saw him as potentially pulling votes. as time went on i think humphrey came to realize that

wallace was going to be pulling boats from -- pulling votes from nixon. he did not worry about him as much. nixon is the one who came to be deeply concerned about him. as the campaign opened, nixon was so far ahead in the polls that it was only by the time you got to late september that he began to realize that humphrey was moving back a little bit, coming up in the polls, and wallace was pulling 20% of the votes. these were his voters, his political advisers felt. he had to figure out a way to get the support of wallace voters without directly attacking him. >> president nixon won in 1968. 31.7 million votes. 301 electoral votes. hubert humphrey, 31.3 million votes and 91 electoral votes.

-- 191 a: pro votes. george wallace received nearly 10 million votes and 46 electoral votes. here is george wallace discussing the 1968 campaign. >> the support we have in at this region of the country gives us an excellent base. it will go forth in the beginning with at least the 177 electoral votes that comprise the states of the south. when you couple that with just a few other states of the union, then you have enough electoral votes necessary to win the presidency. no new party movement has ever had the grass roots support that our movement has. there are movements that are movements of personalities of some small group representing

only a small fraction of the public vote. but our movement does represent in my judgment the majority thinking of the american people at this moment. and will represented november 5. >> we are back live in montgomery, alabama. this is a live picture of the governor's mansion, two miles south of downtown montgomery. dan carper, how is it that george wallace got 10 million votes and 46 electoral votes? >> all the states he won were in the deep south. to him, that was a disappointment. he had hoped to break into some of the border states. it was close in a number of them -- north carolina and virginia, and particularly tennessee. he was within striking distance. although he was disappointed, it was an extraordinary showing.

no political third-party candidate since strom thurmond in 1948 had even carried enough votes in a state to take the electoral vote. he saw it as a strategy that did not succeed, but one that was sound, i think, in 1968. >> we want to get you involved in this program on "the contenders." this week, a legacy of george wallace. we will get to those calls in just a minute. last week on "the contenders" we talked about here humphrey and -- about hubert humphrey and so much of the discussion was about the vietnam war. can you talk about george wallace without talking about segregation? or civil rights?

>> he was the first candidate, the first person, i should say, to testify in favor of a constitutional amendment guaranteeing school prayer but get the supreme court decision. -- against the supreme court decision. he talked an awful lot about pornography and the dangers of pornography. but it was a mixed -- you have to remember, this was the 1960's and 1970's. for example, he supported roe v. wade. he came out in favor of the equal rights amendment when it was first proposed. at this time, yes. there were these social issues, but they did not have that hard edge there were later to have in the 1980's and 1990's. the vietnam one was particular interesting because both the -- most conservatives took the bait -- the position that barry

goldwater didn't, -- that barry goldwater did, position of victory at any cost. george wallace sent the people were very ambivalent about that war. he wanted to be up against the hard-liners. he did it by coming up with this formulation. he would go in, when at any cost, or we would collapse. -- or we pull out. that way the sort of had both sides. >> what was the known far as color of alabama? he was elected four times. >> the support came from the race issue, there is no question about it. alabamians and many white southerners felt besieged. here you had someone -- governor wallace was their champion. they saw him as the kind of person who would speak up on their behalf, not politically, -- not apologetically, but very forcefully. i think that was part of it. the other part was -- you have to remember, george wallace came out of the 1930's as a

franklin roosevelt liberal. he was very liberal in the state legislature. he did have a program, which was often abused, but it was a program which emphasized increases in education, the establishment of community colleges around the state that would be accessible to individuals who cannot afford to go to the university of alabama, but they could attend the community college for a couple of years, maybe get a tech degree or whatever. education was a big part of it. but i think the underlying force of this passion for governor wallace was, at least in the 1960's, was the race issue. >> our first call on george wallace comes from michigan. you are on the contenders. we are live from montgomery alabama. >> thank you very much. what appeal did governor wallace have to white ethnic, and religious groups like jews,

the italians, irish catholics, etc., outside of the south and the urban areas? also, what did he take of senator goldwater? senator goldwater was also against the civil rights stuff. thank you very much. >> he did have a remarkable appeal to ethnic, particularly first generation, eastern europeans. he did not have the baggage of being anti-semitic and of being anti-foreign. what he found was, particularly in many urban areas of the north, was he found that the very prosperity of the 1950's and 1960's had created tension between blacks and ethnics in the working-class communities in which african-americans were finally getting jobs, finally

getting housing. they're often moving in and conflicting directly with these working-class ethnic neighborhoods. >> dan carter, so much was going on in civil rights in alabama during his first tenure as governor in 1963-1967, including the bombing of the church in birmingham and the killing of the four young girls. what was his reaction to that? >> that was one of the most typical moments, i think, for -- difficult moments, i think, for him at the time. i do not doubt one moment that he was genuinely horrified, particularly when it happened. he told lingo, the head of the state police, do what you have to do to find out who did this. it changed, i think partly because governor wallace reacted. as he often did when he felt under attack, and that was the fight back.

i think after a few weeks although he continued to insist he was trying to get to the bottom of this, a privately -- he privately claimed too many individuals that may be blacks had set these bombs or communist had set these bombs. it showed how difficult it was, i think, for him to have to deal with it, but it was not his finest hour. >> what was his relationship with bull connor? >> an ambivalent one. connor was a loose cannon. he certainly found bull connor a useful ally during the heights of the civil-rights movement and birmingham demonstrations. he never made any real effort to rein connor in.

>> george wallace served as governor of alabama from 1963- 1967 and again from 1969-1971. his final term was 1983, 1989. he died when he was 79 years old. the lived in this mansion behind us for putting% of his life. -- he lived in this mansion behind us for 20% of his life. the next call comes from san diego. >> good evening. i wanted to know what kind of relationship did governor wallace have with lyndon johnson? apparently lyndon johnson was known to persuade people. when did george wallace finally abandon his philosophy of segregation? thank you. >> lyndon johnson -- the most famous moment between lyndon johnson and wallace came in the midst of the selma crisis in

which president johnson brought him to washington, or actually, governor wallace volunteered to meet with him where he got the full treatment from lyndon johnson. he was pretty intimidated by the whole process, but he was not alone in that respect. lyndon johnson intimidated everyone. that was, of course, in the early 1960's. the last hurrah for the kind of racial campaign came in 1970 against albert brewer, who had been one of his proteges. he replaced his wife as governor. in the wake of that campaign, it was a pretty all out use of the race issue, attacks that brewer was a candidate of blacks. in the aftermath of that, politically, he said to many of his aides that this was the last campaign he would be able to run like this. the public mood of voters was

changing and black voters were fully enfranchised at that moment. when he emotionally chain, that, i think, really comes later on. >> as we discussed with dan carter a little earlier, george kellner was governor in 1968 and lost in 1962. here is a bit from the speeches in 1968 and 1962. >> if i did not have what it took to treat a man there -- fair regardless of his color, then i do not have what it takes to be governor of this great state. today, i have stood where once jefferson davis stood and took an oath to my people. it is very appropriate that from the cradle of the confederacy, this very heart of the great anglo-saxon southland, that today we sound the drums of freedom as the generations

before us have done time and again. let us rise to the cause of freedom and send our answer in -- freedom-loving blood that is send us and send our answer the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth. i draw a line in the dust and i say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, and segregation forever. [applause] >> dan carper, the power of those words. from 1963. >> pretty amazing. it really got him the first serious national attention. his aides worked very hard to make sure all the networks were there. it was the first stage in think

took him out of a position of being a narrow, parochial, southern politician and put him on the national stage. that speech was written by asa carter, one of his unofficial aids had been a klansman and became the writer of a number of best-selling novels under the name forrest carter. people to gather ideas from a lot of other people. it caught people's attention. >> danny in mississippi, you are on the contenders. please go ahead with your question or comment. >> thank you. my question is as far-fetched as it might seem, at what if george wallace would have been elected president? i know there would have been

compromise on both sides, but you think he would have been a good president? would the people have supported him? i will hang up and listen to what you gentlemen say. >> the only time that he even, i think, stood a chance of being elected was not in 1968, but 1972, and it would have been an extraordinarily long shot. certainly he would have been a different president than he was campaigner. i cannot imagine him being an effective president because although there were 25% of the american people, mostly white americans, who supported him, he always had the great hostility of well over half the american people. it is hard to govern under those circumstances. >> dan carter, was george wallace religious? >> yes. he was a lifelong methodist.

it is interesting, during these years, the 1960's and 1970's, about the only time he even talked about religion even in an indirect way was when he ran in 1962 he did say he was taking liquor out of the governor's mansion because big jim folsom, his mentor, had not taken liquor out of the governor's mansion. he talked about it in terms of being a christian that he was going to do it. totally different kind of views of religion in the 1960's. politicians just did not do that during that time. >> with all the campaigns he ran, did he enjoyed politics? hubert humphrey was the happy warrior. house met, the happy warrior. -- al smith, the happy warrior.

>> absolutely. he would not have been successful, i do not think. any good politician, i think, have to more than tolerate it. in his case, you would have to be a psychiatrist to figure out each politician, but i think he enjoyed the adulation of the crowd. it was a kind of love affair between him and many of his constituency. he was enormously popular in alabama. he loved that feeling of people supporting him. >> here is more prom his 1963 gubernatorial inaugural address. >> each state within its own framework has the freedom to teach, develop, to ask for and received help from others. of separate racial stations. this is a great freedom from our american founding fathers, but if we give up one unit as -- if we amalgamate into the one unit has advocated by the communist philosophers, then the enrichment of our lives, the freedom of our development is gone forever.

we stand for everything and for nothing. we respect the separateness of others and are divided in an effort that has been so twisted and destroyed that there is no wonder that communism is today winning the world. the negro citizens of alabama will work with us from the separate racial station as we will work with him to develop, to grow in individual freedom and enrichment. we want jobs and a future for both races. we want to help the physically and mentally sick of both races. the firm and the and firm. -- the strong and the infirm. this is the basic tenet of our religion.

" we are all the handiwork of god. >> dan carter, that was from the same speech as segregation now, segregation tomorrow. was a moderating its position? what was he doing? >> he made a few changes from the original. that does not sound like asa carter. that sounds more like george wallace. it is an attempt to take a little bit of the edge of the harshness of the speech itself. it is an interesting part of that speech. it only has one line there. it becomes a constant motif, and that is the reference to communism. we do not think about that so much today in terms of anything except the cold war, spies. but for white southerners and many americans around the country, the civil rights movement was an act of congress. -- the handiwork of communist. it is hard to remember how frightened americans were and how much they believed the communist infiltration had

taken place. civil rights seem to be a place they would operate. it's was a useful weapon against the movement to emphasize that. what george wallace's running mate in 1968 was air force general, curtis lemay. our next call comes from harry in oakland, maryland. good evening. >> how are you doing? >> good. >> i remember in 1972 as a college student at allegheny college in cumberland, md., he came to the campus one day. the following day he was shot at the world mall. what i can remember of that is i read about something that does not seem to be talked about much. he went through a major transition after this. i think i read that he did talk

openly about it and had some sort of religious conversion so predict conversion somewhat. also, i can remember seeing him received an award from alabama's naacp. that was in his last term as governor, i think. am i wrong on that or not? i can remember actually watching that and i was amazed to see the transformation from segregationist to basically receiving that type of recognition. >> thank you very much. we are going to be discussing all of that throughout the evening on the contenders. give us a snapshot of what harry was speaking about. >> if you want to know what happens with white's attitudes towards race, just followed george wallace's career. he was a hard segregationists, using the race issue in the 1960's, but by the 1970's and

after he was nearly assassinated, and as the whole political structure changed and blacks came to play a larger role in the democratic party -- both politically and in his own thinking, i think he was a different person. >> very quickly, the 1972 campaign -- how was he doing prior to getting shot? >> george wallace in 1972 was out polling everyone up through may in the primaries. it is amazing to think about it. george mcgovern had emerged in the eyes of the national media as the candidate. he sort of brushed aside the other candidates. but in terms of votes, up until the day he was shot, governor wallace had considerably more votes than george mcgovern did. >> the next call for our guest, dan carter, the offer of this book "the politics of rage," comes from montana.

charles, you are on the contenders. >> was he influenced by huey long at all? did he ever think about running for federal office -- senate or the house? most likely senate? >> no. he claims he was not employed by long at all. i think that is probably unlikely. the was certainly familiar with the career of long. he really was not interested in running for the united states senate. i think he could easily have been elected. at one time the talked about it and thought about it, but he was much more comfortable in alabama. he said why would i want to go to washington and the want of 100 senators when i could be governor of alabama? >> [unintelligible]

did george wallace used the n- word? >> yes. that would have been pretty common. lyndon johnson used the n-word. it was common among leaders in southern politics privately. there were a couple of times when he slipped up and used it publicly as well, but that was not typical at all. i think much more important than whether you used the n-word -- lyndon johnson did, but often in different kind of context -- the real problem was the extent to which this man had been a racial moderate and had been on the trustees of tuskegee university in the early 1950's. he told someone blacks are going to vote in this day and i want to be on the ground floor.

of course, currents of change. that was by the late 1950's. i think the tragedy is that someone who had these empathetic feelings for both black and whites let himself be caught up politically and emotionally in the racial currents of the 1960's. yes, there was a time it was pretty nasty business, i think. >> right here in alabama, florence, alabama, tina. you are on the contenders. >> hello. i enjoyed mr. carter's book. i wanted to ask a question about mr. george wallace. is his shooter still in prison? did they gas him or was he shot? >> arthur bremer was the very mentally disturbed young man who shot governor wallace. they actually wanted to shoot

president nixon, but he could not get close enough to president nixon. he essentially was released. he is now, after many years -- i cannot remember the exact date -- >> 2007. >> i remember i was approached in 1999 about eight statement for his parole hearing. he was turned down at that time. it is only in the last four years after all those years that he has been released. >> let's go back to 1965. george wallace is governor. he is living here at this governor's mansion in montgomery, alabama. reverend martin luther king had been pastor of a church one -- the dexter avenue baptist church, which is one block from the alabama state capital. there are marches from selma to montgomery. very quickly, dr. carter, why are these marches happening and what were their defects?

-- of that? -- affect? >> the broader context was a voter registration effort on the part of african-americans. there were a whole series of these violent incidents. there was an assault on some demonstrators in marion, alabama in which one young man was killed by a state trooper. that was really the triggering episode they began to talk about some way to demonstrate how angry and frustrated they were. there was the first attempt to march from selma to montgomery. that turned out to be a disaster, in some ways, at least nationally or governor wallace because there were television cameras there. violence does not happen unless it is on television, at least in terms of the great impact it had. john lewis and others attempted

to walk from brown's chapel in selma across the bridge towards montgomery. they were met by the alabama state troopers. >> under the orders of governor wallace? >> under the orders of governor wallace. it was never clear what those orders were, but they stopped them. they thought it meant stop them by any means. you had a bunch of deputies who were anxious to do a little head-cracking. that is what happened. >> in just a second, we are going to show you some news reels from 1965 and show you some of the news about those marches from selma, which is 100 or so miles from where we sit now in montgomery. then we are going to introduce you to george wallace's daughter, peggy lawless kennedy. she is inside the mansion. here is the 1965 new israel. -- news real. >> selma sprang overnight from an obscure southern town to the

front pages of newspapers. this church was headquarters for the negro drive. the right to vote. this is where martin luther king came to lend his support to the campaign. from selma's 13,000 negros,only a few more than 300 negroes have been registered at the polls. one group set out to march to the capital at montgomery. the procession was broken up violently by state troopers and deputies. dr. king led another contingent through the town. this time, there is no violence. the 1000 negroes and 400 white ministers and a civil-rights workers reached the end of the bridge where the state troopers stood. there were ordered to turn back.

dr. king confers with the police as the marchers hold their ground the past that they be allowed to pray. there are a few minutes of mounting tension. the request to pray is granted and they kneeled in the street. the march finally gets under way as dr. martin luther king addresses the crowd at the starting point. twice before the marchers had been turned back by state troopers, now they march under a federal court order and with protection of national guard units and federal troops -- 3000 men. there are 2300 marchers in line. half of highway 80 is closed to

traffic. the "martyrs have been ordered to reduce their numbers to 300, a measure designed for their safety. there are a few isolated flare ups between whites and negroes, but otherwise the demonstration is peaceful. the first day the marchers go a -- tramp a little over 7 miles. they wanted to present a petition to governor george wallace. >> you are now looking at a picture of the conclusion of the third selma to montgomery march. it finished up on dexter avenue right in front of the state capital. the dexter avenue baptist church where dr. martin luther king pastored in the '50s is located a block from the state capital. recently, c-span took some video of the same site. this picture was taken about a month or so ago. it is about two miles north of

where we are now. we are, right now, at the governor's mentioned in montgomery, alabama. we are inside the foyer. we are joined by george wallace's daughter, peggy wallace kennedy. we played as israel's 1965. what are your memories? you live in the south at the time. >> yes, i was here. i was 15-years old. i can remember what went on and everything. of course, at that time i did not really have an opinion, but i did go to selma in 2009 and marched across edmund pettus bridge. even back in 1965, i knew that their cause was just and i was able to walk across that bridge with my husband and children.

>> what was life like here in the governor's mansion? >> it is a great house. when we moved in, my mother made it a home. >> lurleen. >> yes. she made it a home. we had a lot of happy times here. we take from a small town and moved to the big city to this wonderful house that my mother made a home. it was wonderful. it really was a wonderful place to live. >> how where were you of your father's reputation outside of alabama, some of the controversial things people said about him? >> i was not aware of that. i was just trying to live a normal life. if you can imagine. my mother was the kind of person that tried to keep us as normal as we could be, a normal life. school and that kind of thing.

i really was not aware. >> do you as a child of the governor have a state trooper followed you around all the times or were you free to come and go as you wanted? >> we were free to come and go as we wanted. before i could drive, i had a trooper take me to school. after that, i was on my own. >> how often was your father around? he was running alabama, he was running our president throughout your childhood. >> he was in and out, but i grew up in a political family. it was normal for me to not see him often. when you do not know anything any different, it is ok. my mother was gone a lot, too. >> peggy wallace kennedy here in the foyer of the gov's mansion in montgomery, alabama. these steps pretty meaningful.

a couple of different incidences' on these steps. let's begin with santa. >> i believe this was 1970 or 1971. it was 1971. my father dressed up like santa claus and i sat on his knee. that is a picture i will always cherish. >> what was he like behind closed doors? what was he like as a dad? >> he was busy. he was always really busy. he ate fast. he walked fast. but he was a wonderful dad when you could get with him, you know. the time you had with him, you had to get the quality time and that was fine, too. because we're used to that. >> something else important happened on the steps. what was that?

when you got married. >> we got married. also, when we first moved in here, my brother and i slid down the banister into a tour group. my mother was very angry about that. i got married and had my wedding reception here. >> we would be remiss if you did not talk a little bit more about your mother, lurleen wallace, or governor wallace. how did she get elected governor? >> i think the people just loved her. >> was voting for your dad? >> well, i think that probably he thought so. when she was elected, she certainly let him know who with the governor, i can assure you. >> what happened to her? >> she had cancer and died in may of 1968. she spent 15 months in office. >> after that, between 1968 and

1971 when your father was reelected, or 1970 when he was reelected -- moved back in in 1971 -- what did your father do? >> he remarried in 1971. we moved back in. there is a little apartment in the back of the governor's mansion. i married in 1973, so i was only here for two years. >> between 1968-1970, where did you move too? >> we had a home that my mother had bought. it was in southern montgomery. >> was he practicing law or running for president? >> he was running. that is what he was doing. >> we have your husband and your son over here. if we could just turn the camera over and show them very quickly so we can wave at them over there. tell us about your husband. >> we have been married for 38

years. he has spent 22 years in public service. the retired from the alabama supreme court in 1999. he is now a state chairman of the democratic party. my youngest son is a history major at the university of alabama. our oldest son is serving in afghanistan right now. >> peggy wallace kennedy, as anyone played up the irony of a wallace marrying a kennedy? >> yes, they have. when we got engaged, senator ted kennedy wrote my father a letter saying he was really glad that the kennedys and the wallace's could finally get together. i have that letter. >> peggy will be joining us a little later in the program. thank you for spending a few minutes with us. we will work our way back out to the set. we will be joined by joe reed,

the chairman of the alabama democratic conference, along with our other guests. wallace by robert, dan carter. -- biographer, dan carter. the next call is from houston. joe, you are on the air. oh, we are talking to joe, the caller. sorry about that. go ahead, joe from houston. >> i have a question. had george wallace not been shot in 1972, would he have run as a third-party candidate? i have another question. in 1976 if he had defeated jimmy carter in florida, how far would he have gone in the democratic nomination process? >> the third party in 1972 and what could have happened in 1976. >> in 1972, of course, he was shot and severely wounded.

he did go to the democratic convention, but it is pretty clear his health suffered from being shot. he was not a serious factor in 1972. in 1976, americans have a pretty short life span toward politicians. everybody kept talking about the relationship between governor wallace's campaign and president roosevelt, who, of course, campaigned from a wheelchair and was president in a wheelchair. the difference was that in the 1930's there was an agreement on the part of the media that he would never be photographed in a wheelchair. most americans simply did not realize how severely crippled he had been by polio. in 1976, every single moment the cameras were on.

there were a couple of incidences', one in which he was dropped. it really emphasized the fact that he was in a wheelchair. even apart from that, one of the things that make governor wallace so effective was his feisty kind of bravado that he but -- feisty, a bantam rooster, kind of bravado that he had. he did not walk across the stage, he started across the -- he started across this stage, often with his hands up in a boxing position. he used to be a boxer. in a wheelchair, it was not possible to do that. >> now we want to introduce you to dr. joe reed who is chairman of the alabama democratic conference. he also works for the alabama education association. dr. reid, what is your first memory of george wallace? >> the first memory i have a george wallace was back in 1958. i had just come from korea and

george wallace was running for governor. it was a candidate for governor at that time. of course joe paterson won. it was 1958 when i first heard of him. >> do you remember what the memory is? >> he was very vocal. at that time, he did not have anything that any other southern politician had at that time. all were running against the supreme court decision in 1954. they all said they were going to maintain segregation. they all claimed that they could do what the law insisted that they could not do. they all insisted they could get around the law. at that particular time he was not much different from the rest of them.

>> what was your life like in alabama in 1958? >> like most other black folks in the south. and to some extent, in this country. for example, segregation, and even though the supreme court had ruled in brown vs. the board of education, -- we were all -- for all practical purposes, alabama was still fighting that the ticket a position. we were all mindful of the strom thurmond's decision in 1948. blacks were more and more sensitized to that. the montgomery bus boycott had occurred. blacks had achieved a great victory there. things were looking up. >> were you able to vote in 1958? >> 1958 -- i was able to vote in 1958.

i was from a small county, conecuh county, between montgomery and mobile. likes or not a threat inveterans did not have a problem getting registered to vote in 1958 in conecuh county. because they were not a threat. there was a sheriff there who -- john brock, who took on the establishment. he went out and help blacks get registered to vote. this was before 1958. he died in 1956. before 1958, there were efforts to get blacks ready to vote. blacks did not constitute a threat. they were captive votes more than anything else. at that particular time, being

a veteran, that was not a major problem. getting registered to vote. >> dr. reid, what did you do at the alabama education association? >> i am the associate secretary at the alabama education association. that's the teachers' union. i have been privileged to serve that organization since 1964. i came over from the black association in 1964. the alabama state teachers association -- there were 11 southern states that had dual associations in the south from virginia to texas. i came on as executive secretary at that time. in 1959, they merged. i have been there for 47 years. >> let's see this video of george wallace.

>> john will come, on wanted, warranted for intrusion. >> this afternoon, following a series of threats and the fund'' statements, the presence of alabama national guardsman was required on the university of alabama to carry out the final quarter of the united states district court of the northern district of alabama. that order called for the admission of two fairly qualified young alabama residents who happen to have been born negro. >> what do you remember about that incident in 1963?

>> we were glad to see president kennedy, on. he was very simple. we always thought he was going to lose. he had lost races before that time, particularly in 1959 and 1960, when he had the confrontation with jerry frank johnson. a lot of folks forget the civil rights deal in 1967, that particular civil-rights deal, which came under president eisenhower, allows the president to appoint a commission to come in and investigate discrimination. because blacks and tuskegee alabama cannot get rights to vote, the committee came and did an investigation. george wallace refused to turn over records to them. george frank johnson jr. was the presiding judge. he ordered it turned over to the civil-rights commission so

they could complete their investigation. that was one of the early times george wallace misled the voters it again in alabama, thinking he could do things he could not do. >> kerry in west virginia, welcome to the program. >> are like to think seized and for showing us the governor's mansion. i would also like to know about his relationship with j. edgar hoover. how was wallace monitored and did he have an opinion of hoover? >> about his relationship with j. edgar hoover and whether or not he was monitored? >> not really. not in the sense that subversives were. governor wallace constantly

praised mr. hoover and relied upon him, particularly for information about the so-called links between civil rights activists and communists. hoover was always leery of wallace. in part because i do not think he could control him. as a result, hoover always told his men to keep a hands-off. as a result, there was a distant relationship between the two of them. >> dan carter is the author of this book. look at the picture on the cover of the book. that is from the inaugural address of 1963. the state capital, two miles from where we are right now. randall in stockton, calif., how're you doing? >> as the son of a civil rights leader who came across in 1963,

i want to know why he would not let the rest of his counterparts cross the bridge? and when they did, there was national outrage. the bottom line is, was governor wallace in cahoots with the congress to conspire for us not to come across the bridge? i want to know the answer to that. >> i did not get his question. >> did you hear his question? >> yes. let's go ahead. >> if the marchers crossed the bridge, regardless of the television cameras, and there

are always television cameras set up there, it would be a face-saving loss for governor wallace. he made it clear he was not going to allow it. he told al lingo, who was in the state troopers, and he also told a major cloud, who was in charge of the troopers at the time, that there were not to be allowed to march. they took them very seriously. at that point, there were ready to go with teargas, mounted men from a posse. and they did not. >> governor wallace was more concerned, at that time, about showing his fellow travelers, his supporters, his friends, that he was going to let the

black folks the cave. -- let the black folks behave. i am going to stop them at all costs. if he had allowed the march to continue, a lot of things would probably have never happened, including his chances in the 1965 voting rights act. i am sure other stations carry it too, they showed people being beaten in selma. other things happened during that same time. windows to white ministers were killed. i forget their names. and when the white clergy also got involved in this, they started demanding that something happened. they started coming into alabama. when the white clergy got involved, the white house got even more upset. those things, in my opinion, were the major factors in terms

of responding to wallace's resistance to the march. if he had just left it alone, it would have turned out differently. >> what was your lover of activity in the civil-rights movement in the 1960's? >> i was not at the bridge. this was in 1965. i was with the alabama state teachers association. we supported the movement, provided resources for the movement, were actively involved -- our local chapter in alabama was led by reverend reese. they came to the alabama state teachers association and we went to washington to elicit help from the national education association to get

involved and ensure that our members got the right to vote. >> we showed to the club from 1963, the school house incident. here is george wallace in 1967 talking about that incident and a little bit on the new riots that were occurring after it >> if i said we are further obligated to oppose any where we find them. a little over three years ago, we stood at the university of alabama. we oppose the enemies of freedom. to use that stand to say that those in high places in washington cannot reconstitution. we warned of the coming lawlessness that would sweep our nation and adversely affect our citizens. >> the worst race violence

since los angeles two years ago. at least 24 persons are killed. more than 1800 wounded. despite patrolling by city and state police, millions of dollars of property damage is done. cleanouts closed shops in the ghetto districts. any vehicle is a target for the mob. two days after beginning, police are augmented by national guardsmen. the gov. terms the rebellion open rioting. fire from open windows kills policemen, a fire captain shot in the back, and several bystanders.

scores of police, troopers, guardsmen, and civilians are wounded current officials said the strikers, some believe it not to be residents, used guns stolen from a rifle factory. even machine guns were used. because of widespread looting, the emergency food centers are set out to supply milk, bread, and cereal to terrorize residents. looters are dealt with swiftly. a 10:00 that 6:00 curfew is clamped on. while new york struggles to restore peace and order, it spreads to nearby suburban towns, where a policeman is beaten to death and violence is reported. new jersey, a state under siege. >> and back live in montgomery,

alabama. dan carter, the race riots of the 1967-1968 period, what effect they have on toward wallace's campaign for governor? >> you can get some idea of what effect it had. much of it is hyperbolic. a lot of the claims that were made were extraordinarily serious. all of the talk about snipers was pretty much disapproved. a lot of shooting. a lot of violence. even the music, everything about it, gives the impression that the nation is under siege. although there is absolutely no connection between the race riots, which had to do with poverty, had to do with the conditions in the inner cities, in the minds of many americans, the civil rights movement and the rights of the 1960's are all blended together.

they are rebellion against authority. and the distinction of one, the civil rights movement is going to be non-violent, rely on non- violence, and the other is this spattering of outburst of violence. it is quite different. the connection is there. >> what do you remember about april 4, 1968? >> that was the day dr. king was shot. i remember going by dr. levi watkins office at alabama state university in montgomery. i walked in his office and he said, dr. king has been shot. that is what i remember. i was also involved in the city movement as another effort on the part of this growing

resistance on the part of black folks and the unwillingness to continue to accept segregation. you had the sit in movement, the freedom rides, all of these things where blacks are demanding that now, and of course would be riots taking place in certain places, which dr. king always condemned, he saw this as a threat to white well-being. >> did you ever meet george wallace? >> yes. i met him many times. i do not remember the first time i met governor wallace, i really do not. i do remember him speaking to the alabama teachers association. and that may have been the first time i shook his head. he signed a bill. this was in the 1970's when we

did that. i was always very critical of governor wallace. he said to me one time, "you have always been critical of me but you were never mad at me." we had a bill we are trying to get him to sign. it was to register people to vote any time. the voter registrars across the state of alabama were against it. we ask him to sign the bill. he went on and signed the bill. yes, we talked many times in the last years. >> will get on to that later in our program. >> i wondered if mr. carter could comment on how the racial politics of rage in the 1950's and 1960's may have morphed into the current hard right stance of the tea party on issues like gay marriage and

illegal immigration. this might not be surrogate issues for people whose racial attitudes have not changed, but it is not in fashion to speak publicly about that. >> wow. that is really a tough one. to draw a direct connection. we do not have the same kind of language about race that we once had. weekends off all we want to about political correctness. the fact is, it is politically incorrect to engage in any kind of racist language. but we do have this long tradition in the united states, in this very cantankerous democracy, of selecting

scapegoats, groups that seem to represent a violation of what the cultural norms are that a family felt. whether that is the issue of prayer in the schools, the issue of gay marriage, in economic hard times, whether it is the issue of immigrants and so-called job challenges that are threatening the jobs of americans, there is a connection in the sense that we want an enemy. that enemy may be african americans at some point, it may be other groups. unfortunately, it is one of the darker sides of american history. >> george wallace ran for president in 1964. in 1968, he captured five states and 46 electoral votes. he also ran in 1972 and 1976. next call is from tampa bay florida. hello, mike. mike from tampa bay, please go ahead. >> i had a cathartic experience

tonight as a young american watching these old clips being played. it gives me hope to see how divergent cultures have come together in the clips and a great sense of hope to see how our political differences might be able to be bridged today. >> how politics changed in alabama? >> yes. politics in alabama has changed. one thing we have to keep in mind -- racism, i do not think, as martin luther king jr. said, the white will in this country, the death of racism. all of these things are still part of dyed in the wool racism that exists today not only in alabama but in other places of the country. that is part of the question

that the gentleman raised. >> he was talking about how politics have changed. what is the alabama democratic conference? >> there were filed in 1964 the purpose of helping john f. kennedy. blacks were shut out of the democratic party in alabama at that time. we were still struggling and had not got the right to vote until the mid-1960's. leaders were trying to get a voice in the democratic party. the alabama democratic conference was set out for that reason. they set out to do two things -- to get white political leaders attention, that was one of the things, and also to unify

the black vote so that we could make politicians' behavior. it was that kind of thing that we were working on. that is what the democratic conference was about and is still about today. >> 1968 was george wallace's best run for governor -- for president. >> one of the issues confronting the people is the breakdown of law and order. they are apologizing today and sang it comes about as a result of welfare payments, job opportunities, education, etc. the average man on the street knows that it comes about because of activists, militants, revolutionaries, and artists, and communists. if i were the president, i would give my strong moral support to the local police officers of this country and local law enforcement and say,

you enforce the law and i can tell you that if i were the president of the united states, you could walk on the streets in any section of washington d.c. at any time and i would make it possible if i had to bring 30,000 troops in washington. we are going to make this a core of the citizens of washington d.c. and. it is a sad moment that in the nation's capital, you are fearful of walking out of this hotel. this is not race i'm talking about. every time i mention this, they say this has racial overtones. where does a company of racial overtones to stand for law and order? newsmen have indicated so long that the people in our state who defended the right of the state to determine their local school systems believe in separation. that is, racial separation.

we have had more mangling an association of the races in alabama. i would say that any large state above the mason-dixon line. when you talk about segregation, we have supported, in the past, a separate school system. but as far as working and commingling together, we have done more of that than the people of any other region in the country. one reason we have had more peace in our region has been that people of all races are needed and wanted in alabama. so i still stand for the right of the people of alabama, through their elected representatives, to determine their policies of the school system. >> joe reed, your reaction to governor wallace speaking in 1968. >> if he is talking about desegregating, it is because of jerry frank m. johnson, who was

the architect. then we had the lee vs. macon decision, which accounted for 100 schools. it is a tribute to the fact that the federal government and black leaders, the naacp, and other organizations, went out and risk everything else to desegregate public education. >> dan carter, when you hear the words law and order, and militants, are those code words? >> absolutely. they do not like this here, but television plays a critical role in the political process. you are aware that everywhere

you're saying is being captured on film. you have to be careful. it is the sense of political correctness. you have to be careful about how you say it. you learn a different language. it is the language in which you, without ever referring specifically to race, talk about race. nobody was better at it than governor wallace. whenever he wanted to complain about the federal government and forcing housing, non- discrimination, he did not talk about them making african americans living closer to you, he talked about blue-eyed china men. they're going to make them come into your neighborhood. and everybody knew what he was talking about. >> 1968, richard nixon, 301 electoral vote. hubert humphrey, 191 electoral votes. hubert humphrey won 13 states.

george wallace won five states. who won the black vote in 1968? >> it was hubert humphrey. do you remember who you voted for? >> i was co-chaired for the national committee of educators. that was the first time that blacks went to the democratic national convention. i was privileged enough to go because the chairman had arranged that. that was the convention of 1968. i was a pro-humphrey person. i knew him personally. we achieved what we wanted to achieve to get nominated. we did not succeed in getting him elected. >> we are in front of the

governor's mansion in montgomery, alabama, where george wallace lived for 20% of his life. 16 years he lived here. this is our 12th week of "the contenders." we have two weeks left. >> i have a question. i began my address in politics when i was 10 years old area i worked through the american independent party in pennsylvania as a volunteer. even though we did not have a great deal of support in pennsylvania, he had a strong base of support in the philadelphia area. my question for dr. carter is, what was his relationship, as far as richard nixon? the alabama republicans have backed him during the civil rights crisis. congressman bill dickinson was a strong wallace supporter. he was one of the early republicans in alabama.

i was wondering, what did wallace think of richard nixon and did he ever endorsed richard nixon for president? >> dan carter. >> he did not think much of richard nixon. particularly after 1968, because in 1970, when governor wallace was running, his wife had died. he was going to run against former governor wallace. richard nixon put $400,000 in secret cash into the brewer campaign. it did not stay a secret very long. governor wallace always suspected that richard nixon was trying to destroy him, which he was, because nixon saw wallace as his greatest threat

in 1972. he made every effort that he could and governor wallace was aware of that. >> in your book, in the 1972 campaign, george wallace started strong before he was shot, correct? >> absolutely. he got more votes at the end of the day he was shot. he had more votes than any other democratic candidate at the time. i do not think he would have got a nomination, but it was a

tremendous problem for the democratic party. >> after he was shot in 1972, richard nixon went to see him, correct? >> that is correct. >> who else went to see him? >> hubert humphrey went to see him, george mcgovern went to see him, ethel kennedy went to see him. in her case, it was a sense of compassion after what had happened. in other cases, it was the politics of it.

they would like to have his support. nixon did more than go and see him go. he manipulated the shooting of governor wallace by trying to blame -- trying to link the man shot him to george mcgovern. >> do you remember when george wallace was shot? >> i learned of it at my office. my sympathy went out to the wallace family as well as everybody else. it was a horrible thing to happen. i remember it very well. i went to the democratic convention in 1972 where george wallace was. he was trying to make his way. when he was shot and paralyzed, that ended his political career as a presidential candidate. on the other hand, he continued to run for office and hold office in alabama as governor. of course, after the shooting, and after he was paralyzed for so long, i think that is where he really got his political conversion. >> we will get into that. governor wallace served as

governor of alabama from 1963- 1967, from 1971-1979, and from 1983-1987. he ran the 1976 campaign. how long did that last? >> he made several primaries. governor wallace. the best example was that the primary in florida where governor wallace lost to jimmy carter, that pretty much finished him. >> pensacola, place for holding. you are on "the contenders." george wallace is the topic this week. >> i remember as a 10-year-old boy when george wallace got shot. it was a very devastating day to me as a youngster.

when gov. wallace was running for president and 1970's,you know how the presidential people have their money backers -- how did he raise money to run for office? the other question i have -- i know he has a son who is in political office. does he have any desire to run for governor at all? >> there was some big money, but by and large, george wallace, you can like him or dislike him, but he was an extraordinarily successful campaigner -- fund raiser of small contributions. he got millions of dollars in small amounts -- $5, $10, $20. he was never really backed by the big money individuals. i will let dr. reed talk about

george wallace jr. >> he ran for state senator. he is his son. the democratic conference endorsed him. of course, the later on switch to the republican party and we opposed him. over all, he was a nice fellow. >> he is currently a republican, right? >> he is currently a republican. >> peggy wallace kennedy is the honorary chairperson of the democratic party. i think that is what she told us earlier. >> she is the chair of the -- her husband is the chair of the democratic party of the state of alabama. and he is doing a good job.

bottom line is that george wallace jr. did run for the state treasury. in fact, the day we endorsed him, george wallace sr. came to the alabama democratic conference convention. the rest is history. >> we want to show you one more ad from one more piece of video from 1968. this is an ad that george wallace was running. >> why are more and more americans turning to governor wallace? follow us across town. >> as president, i shall within the law turn back the absolute control of thebes educational -- of the public school systems system to the people of the states. >> why are more and more americans started to governor wallace? open a little business and see what might happen. >> as president, i will stand up for your local police and firemen in protecting your safety and property.

>> why are more and more americans turning to governor wallace? watch your hard earned tax dollars sail away to anti- american countries. >> as president, i will halt the giveaway of our american dollars and products to countries. -- to countries that 8 our enemies. >> give him your support. >> our next call comes from tony in pleasantville, n.y. tony, you are on the contenders. >> i was 21-years old, in 1968 and part of the navy. -- just out of the navy. i am 65 now, but over the years i supported george wallace. ross perot, ralph nader, and currently --currently eight ron paul supporter. i went to a rally in 1968 at madison square garden's. george wallace and his vice presidential candidate, curtis lemay.

the 21 minute standing ovation by a sellout crowd. during the presentation, there were some hecklers wake up in the far reaching seats, about six or seven of them. you could see the lights from the cameras. when the event was over, the local news -- they only had three networks in those days -- the only thing they reported were the three hecklers. outside madison square garden, there were 50 mounted police and motorcycles expecting riots by the people. what i learned at this rally at is how unfairly the media treats third-party candidates. c-span was not around in 1968, but if c-span was around in 1968, george wallace would have done better. in 1972, if he was not shot, he had a good chance at winning. >> tony, let's leave it there. dan carter, but what the -- that

was the american independent party george wallace was running on. what is the role of the media in 1968? >> congratulations. you are the first person i have talked to who was at that rally, which was a pretty remarkable rally. there is a lot of film footage, which we were able to use in a documentary we did on governor wallace. although i think you are right, most of the time the media tends to dismiss a third party candidates. part of it is they actually like confrontation. there were demonstrators giving -- there were about 20 demonstrators shouting seig heil and giving hitler salutes. that is colorful news. that is often what these media were as the speeches themselves -- they were not going to show a 21 minute ovation. you are exactly right.

he received a 21 minute ovation. >> dr. reed, it looked like you were about to add something. we will move to our next call from north carolina. good evening. >> i just had a question about george wallace's pre legislative activities before he got involved with the legislature of alabama. was he not a lawyer for some people involved in the assassination of attorney- general john paterson and things of that nature? -- some of the phoenix city gambling and things of that nature? >> no. that does not ring any bells at all. >> dr. reed, if george wallace was alive today, would he be a republican or a democrat? >> i think he would be a democrat. i really do. he would just -- i do not think

he liked the republicans. out of all his running, he was always a democrat in alabama. i think he would have stayed a democrat. i do not think he would have changed. >> i do not know. i think it is clear that his heart in some ways with the policies of the democratic party, particularly economic policies. on the other hand, he was pretty hostile towards the national government and its activities. it is possible that may have led him, certainly at the was running for office in alabama who would be running as a republican. that is the only way he would get elected. >> george wallace was elected in 1970 and in 1974 to the gubernatorial office here in alabama. he ran for president in 1972 and 1976. in 1982, he said i have been wrong about the race issue.

what happened? >> i think that after he was shot -- governor wallace's entire political career for the last few years was based, embedded, sanctioned, guided by race. i do not he lost the race to john paterson because the n- word was used too much. john patterson would have defeated wallace anyway, because his father was shot are trying to clean up and cities. -- his daddy was shot trying to clean up phenix city. governor wallace was not going to beat him either way. john patterson was a prosecutor. he knew how to go after things. >> go back to 1982.

>> your question was whether or not >> george wallace said he was wrong about the race issue. >> i think he meant that. he felt he had been punished. he had been in a wheelchair over a quarter of a century. you have to look back and say , if you are a christian any said he was, why am i here? why am i going through this? i really believe that he went through this conversion. george wallace is one of the few politicians who had run encore segregation platforms. the publicly repudiated -- that publicly repudiated segregation. he said "i was wrong." >> in 1982 after that, did you vote for him for governor? >> i voted for the straight democratic ticket. straight out. the alabama republican congress did not endorse george wallace.

we supported george mcmillan. george mcmillan lost in the primary. there were blacks running for county commission, blacks running for the legislature, blacks running for everything. we always vote the straight democratic ticket because there was no republican out there. somebody raised the question is the vote about race, live and let the. one is the rising sun, and what is the setting sun, and that is what happened. >> that is what happened. the alabama democratic conference never endorsed wallace. >> we are in front of the governor's mansion in montgomery, alabama where george wallace lived. good evening. >> i went in the marine corps in 1970.

i left eerie, pa., got down to the south, and was amazed at how southerners were treating everybody. i saw the movie "the help" which was a picture of what the south was like. the ways that the blacks were subjugated was phenomenal. it was a terrific movie. another movie that has to be mentioned is "waiting for superman." you hear about how the teachers' unions are giving this idea of what is happening. i teach as a substitute teacher in california. the democrats were in control of the south that caused all of this -- the deaths in mississippi, the complete destruction of society. i looked at detroit, i've

looked all over. there is joe reed. how much of his retirement after 47 years as a teacher -- if you look at what the teacher unions have done to this country. [coughing] john. >> you are getting a little off topic. we appreciate your call. we will get an answer for you very quickly. speak about the education association and respond to his comments very quickly. >> the alabama education association as it exists now is a combination of the black and white teachers coming together in 1969. for 42 years we have been very successful. bring in the maid's and janitors and to our association, protecting tenure, defending our member rights in court. we suffered some setbacks in the

last election, but we -- we are still fighting for the right of teachers in alabama. it is one of the most effective associations in the country. >> i can tell you one thing -- if george wallace was still active in politics, he would not be attacking teachers or the teachers' unions. >> no. >> he thought it was important. i think it is a reflection of how there are many similarities between the kind of conservatism george wallace helped to create and today, in which suddenly teachers who are really not paid that much, who really do not get vast pensions suddenly become another one of the scapegoats of society. >> governor wallace would not have done that. >> that collor also mention the movie "the help." did you see the movie? ok, was your impression of it? >> it is a recreation of what it was like in this world in which black and white, i am

particularly middle-class and upper-middle-class southerners, altman had connection to blacks, but it was always in a subordinate position. i think the film does a good job of explaining that relationship. >> the city of montgomery, alabama -- rosa parks began her bus protest here. the jefferson davis white house is here. dr. martin luther king preached at the dexter avenue king memorial baptist church, which is one block from the state capital where george wallace announced on jan. porting, 1963, -- january 14, 1963, segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever. it is laid out. you can see a lot of these different exhibits here in the city as well. the next call for our guests comes from poughkeepsie, new

york. nick, you are on the contenders. >> she total not to do it? >> you are on the contenders. ok. we are going to move on from nick. we will move south to georgia. john, you are on "the contenders." >> my question is for mr. carter. getting back to the 1972 election and his choice of curtis lemay as his running mate -- i was just curious as to what motivated him to make that selection and what their relationship was? thank you very much. >> that was in 1968? >> he thought that general lemay would bring in a lot of a veteran voters. in the 1960's, there was still a huge number of veterans from world war ii and korea. even vietnam. he thought putting a

respectable general like curtis lemay on the ticket would help them draw a lot of these voters in. it would also draw in the hardliners who wanted to suppress the war in vietnam, even though governor wallace was sometimes a little ambivalent. i think that is the main reason. it turned out to be a disaster, but that is another story. >> in 1972 and 1976 he did not get close to the nominating a vice-presidential candidate. >> some of his people opposed chandler because the opposed -- he had welcomed on for at least had gone along with bringing jack robinson into baseball. chandler was the commissioner of baseball. so when they brought jackie robinson in, chandler was with that. some of wallace's opponents did not want chandler on the ticket because of that. he was out of kentucky, of course. >> joe, do you remember your

last conversation with george wallace? >> i was trying to think about that. >> we want to reintroduce george wallace's daughter, peggy wallace kennedy. she joins us from inside the mansion. mrs. kennedy, you have been listening to our conversation. what have you heard? >> well, i have heard a lot about my father. >> mrs. kennedy? go ahead. now we can hear you. >> well, i have heard a lot about my father. i have enjoyed reminiscing a little bit. my father, to me in my heart, was not a racist. he was a politician. he is the man that i want to remember and i want my children to remember.

this is a man that, in his later years, reached out for forgiveness and received that forgiveness. >> do you think that he did have some racist tendencies in the 1960's? >> in my heart, i do not think that. i think he was just a politician. that does not make it right what he did. like i said, that the man i want to remember -- one who reached out for forgiveness and received that forgiveness. >> mrs. kennedy, can you tell us about the day your father was shot? where were you? >> i was in college. i attended troy university. i was sitting in a classroom and i remember looking at the clocks. i was in the classroom alone waiting for a class.

i remember looking at that particular time. when the class was over, one of my friends came to me and felt like maybe i had already heard that my father had been shot and he was ok. she said, your father is ok. he has been shot, but he must be ok. i said i did not know that. i was brought here to the mansion and flown straight to maryland. >> we were talking about you a little bit earlier. you are the honorary chair of the alabama democratic party. correct? >> no. my husband is the chair of the alabama democratic party. i stand by him and help him when i can. i do make some speeches at alabama democratic party functions. what's your brother is now a republican, correct? >> yes, he is, but i still love him very much. [laughter]

>> if your father were alive today would he be a democrat or republican? >> i think he would be a democrat. >> if your father were alive today who would he have voted for in 2008? >> well, i think he possibly could have voted for president obama. i know that he would have been proud that i endorsed president obama and i think he would have been very proud that i marched across the edmund pettus bridge in 2009 with john lewis. >> peggy wallace kennedy wrote a piece for cnn the day after the election, november 3, 2008. if you are interested, you can go to cnn and read it. it is about visiting her father's grave and having an obama bumper sticker on her car. albany, ga. -- you are on the

contenders. go ahead. >> just a couple of things real quick, i know my time is limited. number one, selma is only 40-50 miles from montgomery. i grew up in selma at the time of the march. my question is for mr. carter. at the time of the march, rumors were running rampant. a woman was giving marchers a ride back in her car when she was ambushed. it was rumored for many years that one of the marchers she was giving eight ride was an undercover fbi agent. i wonder if you have ever heard of this rumor. thank you very much. >> it was not her passenger, it was one of the individuals in the car that did the shooting was an undercover agent it was his testimony that made it possible for the immediate

arrest of the people who did the shooting even though nothing much came of it. that was the situation. the person she was taking back, and i am embarrassed to say i have forgotten his name, faced -- faked being shot. he fell under her when she was shot. the car wreck and she fell on top of him. he was covered in blood. they stopped and realized she was dead at thought he was, to. >> in your book "the politics of rage," there is a discussion about potential conspiracies with the nixon campaign to have shot governor wallace. jack nelson, former bureau chief of the l.a. times, came down and investigated it. what was the conclusion? >> i do not think so. i do not believe that richard nixon and his entourage tried to

exploit the shooting. arthur bremer -- we have an awful lot of information, including his diaries he wrote during this time. it is clear that this was a very mentally disturbed young man. >> peggy wallace kennedy, after your father was shot, what was his life like as governor and his personal life? >> of course, he slowed down quite a bit. i think that even though that was a tragedy for him, i do think that it helped him in a lot of ways to stop and look around and appreciate his family more and appreciate what he had more. unfortunately, what's your father was married twice after your mother died, correct? cornelia and lisa taylor?

and divorced from both. >> right. >> here at the governor's mansion here in montgomery, alabama -- in the back is a pool. it was put in as a gift to governor wallace after he was paralyzed because swimming would be good to him and it is in the shape of the state of alabama. dr. reed, the you remember your last conversation with george wallace? >> i was trying to. once he said to me, joked, a lot of people did not believe what i was doing. i believe in segregation because we were taught that way, but i was wrong. that is when he changed and at port forgiveness. i accepted his decision and accepted his statement that he was wrong. he was one of the few southern

politicians ever to repudiate that. in fact, i was invited to his funeral. i did go to the church where his funeral was. i think as a christian he should have been forgiven and was forgiven. >> peggy wallace kennedy, where are your parents buried? >> they are buried at lake memory cemetery. they are together. >> if that here in montgomery? >> yes, that is here in montgomery. >> dr. david carter, how did george wallace change the national conversation? >> because he identified at this mood that was in is very early stages of conservatism. it was made possible not only by his great skills, but by circumstances over which he had no control but was able to exploit. to me, the great tragedy is that here was a person of

enormous abilities. he was caught in the time warp that he was. >> the politics of rage is the name of dan carter's book. he has been our guest for the last two hours as has joe reed, the chairman of the alabama democratic conference as well as the executive secretary of the alabama education association. >> associate executive secretary. >> associate executive secretary of the alabama education association. we are very proud to have had join us peggy wallace kennedy, the daughter of george wallace. we thank you all very much. we also want to thank governor robert bremer for opening up his -- robert bradley -- bentley for opening up his temporary home. it has been wonderful, so thank you governor bentley. we also want to thank the governor's mansion staff and

thanks to everybody at the alabama state capitol building for all their help in setting up this contenders. we are going to leave you with governor wallace in 1986, his last address to the alabama legislature. good night. >> i have climbed my last political mountain, but there are still some personal pills i -- hills i must climb. but for now, i must take the rope and pick and climb to higher heights, another climate. climb on until we reach our peak. look back in a way that may. -- and wave at me. i, too, will still be climbing. my fellow alabamians, i bid you a fond and affectionate farewell. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute]

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> our live look at the contenders continues next friday in south dakota to talk with george mcgovern about his presidential campaign. we will take your calls. the series airs live every friday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern alive. you can see tonight's program again on sunday at 10:30 a.m. eastern. there is more online. a schedule of the series, biographies of the candidates, links and speeches all at our website. tomorrow, a republican presidential debate on the economy. you will hear from aided the presidential candidates. it took place at the constitution hall in washington, d.c. and was hosted by the

american enterprise institute and the heritage foundation. you can see that tomorrow it 9:20 p.m. eastern here on c- span. >> this past july 4, in a ceremony aboard the uss constitution, simon winchester, author of this book became an american citizen. >> i took all the exams and i confess i got one of them wrong. i had an australian friend also up and i said, i got one of the questions from. not the one about the color of the white house? yes, that when i got. i feel awful confessing it, but the american national anthem. i had thought it was america the, the beautiful.

it should be, but it does not. >> offer of 21 votes, the latest is in paperback. watch the rest of the interview sunday night on "q&a." >> next to discussion on hollywood with a panel of african-american actors including harry belafonte. they spoke at the naacp conference held earlier this week in hollywood. it is an hour and a half. >> i do have some remarks and i do not want to forget.

as i look at the script, first i do not need to look at the script. i want to thank that chairman and that convention planning committee for allowing us to have this plenary session here in los angeles. activism and the support that we have had in hollywood and the naacp, it is very important. we are not new to this topic or issue. the naacp has been involved in the issue of race in hollywood since its protests back in 1915, which for some people, i saw the caller recessing yesterday talking about new technologies. in 1915, movies was cutting edge of new technology. for the leadership of the naacp back then to understand the power that this media would go on and have, i think it just shows the foresight of the

association. it is important when we talk about movies to put them -- and television, when we talk about media come a break us down in three areas. you have scripted, movies and television, which a story telling, which is a lot of editorial control. then you have reality and news, again, a lot of editorial control. then obviously new media, which is community building. today we will focus on the scripted. in that, the four fathers of hollywood word european immigrants who came over and it was really important for them to be accepted into american culture. as they started the entertainment industry, they also were very involved in creating what was known as the american dream.

if you worked hard, you will succeed. family comes first. and good will always triumph over evil. now we know that it's not always a reality but that really is the essence of the american dream. one of the problems, and why naacp had to get involved is because the american crime -- dream was predominately white stories with white heroes and white actors and actresses. as part of the american dream, we know that needs to be multicultural and multiracial. i am very excited and i want to thank the panel for being with us today. and i am just going to jump right in. mr. belafonte tell me did not matter what question i asked, he would get to the s&l was important for the audience. it will make my job really easy.

some background and talk about hollywood a little bit before we jump into the act fast part. what do you considered your big first break in hollywood and wall was a bit like back then as a young actor trying to get into hollywood? >> first of all, can you hear me? first of all, i am looking for my first big break in hollywood. [laughter] i have not gotten there yet. decade after decade there is a radical energy that has grasped the black committee -- community to push itself beyond the border that we have been contained in. i think we try and put our best foot forward but i have yet to

find was a sea, certainly any great consistency, but even odd moments here and there, that quintessentially reflect the life and struggle and hope and aspirations of not only black people but people of color. if there is any one single thing that has been missing, it is the inability of the sun and the culture to have -- cinema cultures to of opened itself up to the expressions coming from the communities of people who are oppressed, where they can genuinely speak to into reasonable things to demonstrate the nature of that oppression and the source of it. from that perspective, we have failed and the mission.

i don't think that it is a black thing necessarily. but i do think black people are engaged in the process and therefore that extends culpability with which hollywood continues to ignore us, puts a some places that continue to serve the aspirations of the society. i think it is mostly committed to the negatives rather than to the positives. lahood macabre of great actors and actresses, some remarkable writers, coming to the full measure of their potential because there is no radical thought in our midst. we seem to be acquiescent to the idea of money, of money in abundance, acquiesce to the

parts that are given to us, the excellence of our work, and i think the excellence of our work is yet to be exhibited because we have yet to touch the deeper and more profound places with our two-story is existing. -- with -- where are the true story success, whether it was asked for, or the african diaspora, the caribbean, a lot of places in the world. we have thousands upon thousands of stories to tell each day. the experiences of africans and the african diaspora, and whether the story is to be told, the global community will be deeply enriched by no -- by knowing the deeper truth and we as a people will be far more committed to impress a behavior

in behalf of our own liberation although it has eluded us and we play the games and we try to do things that give the appearance of committing to change. but we have yet to open that door. >> and we obviously have mr. brown with us and we have other members here in the audience. who love you to stand up and take a well-deserved bowel. -- we would love for you to stand up and take a well- deserved bow.

a lot of ground to cover and we can be here until midnight. a lot like a circle back to the emphasis of the question i asked mr. belafonte. what was your first -- what you consider your first big break in what was it like is a young actor back there? >> i started in broadway. i came from melting pot neighborhood right after the depression. no one had all whole lot of money but we did have one another. we grew up only genius. we had six balls and one part of the skate. we may do. we needed one another. it really did not matter during this particular days. it was a melting pot in brooklyn.

we were dumped in @ tibbs -- into bathtubs regardless of who we belong to. when i got in the school, i was the president of junior high school, and they said did you complete this. that is i came in this show business. i slap upside the face when the rest of the world was not like that. i did not get the results of my first big movie, the landlord, which had did with those bridges. that was an exception. my first reality check was in 1966 when i was here in los angeles. it took me 4.5 hours to from sunset to the beverly hills hotel.

that is something very funny today. my first -- and did a movie of the week, the universe of. there was a sweet and sour experience. that same day, i got hit upside the face by being handcuffed to trees by the lapd. it was a mixed bag. from then until today i have had to deal with keeping my quality straight. house speaker later on about the book. but you have to identify with the two realities and get our reality of on the screen to learn about ourselves. it is too long a story to tell you right now. but my first break was the movies of the we get universal.

>> tatyana, these concerns are generational. we'll watch you grow up on "fresh prince." talk about your concerns in hollywood and casting as a woman. >> my experiences that i grew up in new york and i started in theater. one of the first place i did was on broadway. "fresh prince"changed my life and my family's life. i was 11 years old when i got it. it moved is that the california. i let a very charged to life as an actor. my parents instilled that expectation was very important acting was a reward for doing well and so cool.

after college, coming back here, then i really experienced the industry as of fall from the adult. -- it's a full grown adult. -- as a all grown adult. it is very hard to find roles that i can be proud of. find roles that i can set the dinner table with my grandmother and little sisters and say, gas, i am proud that i was part of this project. for me, in these to be a positive role, a role where the character goes through and

achieve something, copper something, something in themselves are outside of themselves. i could play a drug addict. it really depends on the story. that is what i mean by a positive character. but it is very hard. i find that the archetype and the stores that we tell, the archetypes of black women specifically, they have not fully been explored. i know that for a fact because i am always up for roles as the best friend, a character that is there to shed light on the main white character, a caucasian character, and themselves is very narrow. it is very difficult to find them. necessity is the mother of invention. my sister and i have started a production company not just for

myself, not for vanity, but to break through and to really get the thousands and thousands of stories that have not been told and voices that have to be heard. that has been my struggle and what i am going through now. >> talk about this because i know the naacp that eddie smith was president and then founded bfa, talk about local alliance of you working in hollywood and the importance of the naacp being there. [applause] i told you, right? hill harper. >> how we still talking about

the black summitt are are we talking wehill? [laughter] it was the founder but he was never the president. even though he was very active in seemed active in the image awards and ironically enough the naacp was our to hammer to hollywood. we would always use them to get into the doors that we needed to get through to get things done. [applause] and remember, this struggle still continues. if you all realize surry are today, even though we have applied president, you see he is still struggling. that only goes to show you that the black summitt, we were out front, they were -- we were the

first organized group to fight and when you begin the fight, you may noise, you got trouble. so we just continue to fight. and i always would be remiss because if i would mention one of the people that was before us, that had the struggle, they deny that the recognition, because she was one of the slaves and the jungle people back in that date. she is now 89 years old. i always have to give her heard just do. -- her just due. [applause]

that being said, as have other things. >> thank you so much for making apologies and letting everyone know. that is why the chair was empty as promise for you. one of the questions i like to ask and we jump into the real political stuff. your experience in hollywood, how you got started, and what if any barriers you have confronted to achieve their dream of working in hollywood. >> to see all: here -- to say uncle lou here, i played a son -- his son on a project on broadway, and showtime did it as a film called zooman and i had the honor and privilege of acting with uncle lou and learning and watching what true

class, true intelligence, what i ate true strong black male in hollywood look like. [applause] whatever i have been able to achieve an modicum of success i have had is certainly due to individuals like mr. belafonte and uncle lou and the individuals that have come before. when we talk about, i think, involve money -- involvement and what is the value of being on camera. it seems to me that if you do not use whatever platform you have -- we all have different platforms. we can all affect change in our individual ways. i would suggest that folks who have a platform of so-called celebrity, to the extent they do not use that platform, or they

use it for their own self aggrandizement, it goes to waste. to the extent that i can follow and the steps of these great men and women that have come before me, it is an extension of what they have already done. it is an extension of using that platform to create some positive social change or effect. [applause] >> on that come when we talk about being in front of the camera and the images in the story and mr. belafonte, i will let you go on this first, if you would, talk about here in the united states the impact on our children in the influence of the media. but it is also international. -- the it impact, not way that america is perceived internationally.

>> i don't know any technology that has impacted the world and the world's perceptions of the united states of america that has the power of film. it is given more substance or absence of substance as the case may be to what america is all about. in 1935, i saw my first film that exposed me as a young child to africa. my parents were immigrants. they came from the caribbean. they came from a great hope of what america could extend in its generosity to people who came from a faraway place. but they did not find that generosity being afforded them the way it was to other peoples of color. and certainly the most demeaning

thing you could be was to be called an african. when i saw tarzan and the apes, 1935, of on the screen, it still had a magical power, the idea that something could be put on the screen and put in the motion and still capture your imagination. an overwhelming psychological impact. but when you look and you see the white man swinging through trees, inarticulate, unable to speak anything but a guttural sound that animals could understand, that became the thing that you aspired to when you look at those people of color who surrounded the environment that he commanded. it did a lot to impact on the way that people saw us and the way the people felt.

as a kid, the last thing i wanted was to be an african or identified as one. every time i saw people of color in that context, it was someone lacking courage toward dignity or integrity and had no moral value. always the 11 heavily dependent on the one who swung through the trees, cutting through the air. i also saw on film the documentary form the plight of the ethiopians, and their appeal before the league of nations to contain italy and the fastest of italy over running the country.

and i saw contrast to the africa that i saw when i saw tarzan and the aids, i saw a man of enormous dignity, very majestic inarticulate, pleading a case -- very mark -- very majestic and articulate, pleading a case before the global legislators to protect the people they were defenseless. and i watched them crush him, but not his dignity. when you saw them doing battle against the italian armies, and man of enormous courage coming up against all odds they were just under feasible. -- unbelievable.

to have a spirit testified against these metal machines. -- spear to fight against these metal machines. i watched gondi, and people because who they existed in our community, gave as an opportunity to find a balance of great consistency on the movie screens of america. and other parts of the world. i was just talking to young people backstage, and one asked about patty mcdaniel and whether she was being harshly judged because of the roles that she played and should we not be more generous and more compassionate in the evaluation of what she had to go through. well, i can understand the desire for generosity and a

certain fundamental humanity when our people get trapped in the vise of life. but there is another side to that. we all have choices. would it have been perhaps not better for us to play no role at all and to be seen at in a role that consistently demesne says rather than with integrity robbed of our dignity, in the name of that is all that they offer? then we could get another kind of job and do something else but do not participate in something where you are in the long run doing that which is harmful. let's go from there -- [applause]

and today, it to where we can say that things are a lot different. things are a bit different but not a lot. we still find ourselves finding hollywood lending praise to those things that are too rigid that are not to our best interest. -- to those things that are not to our best interest. to men who aren't thugs and rapists and murderers and very little on the other side of the ledger to balance the scale under the name of freedom of speech or the name of the right to tell the kind of story that are being told. i was one of the first people to leap into the whole rap as an art film. i hasten to put the fish and on what rappers were about because i anticipated what was to come. and it came. what you saw was young men who

are adorned with gold, adorned with success, adorned with celebrity moving to say those things for the profiteers. they became sexist and anti- coulter, and thai women, and they did so many other things in the name of that is the way we are or that is the truth of that is the best that we can do. and for the rest of the community, to except that, it is an insult and a charge against the community itself. where have we lost our sense of purpose? [applause] >> that is another question, the generational discussion. tyana, did you want to

speak to that? >> i think it is sensitive. i think sometimes the critique on younger generations who are trying to explore who they are in the world, what their meaning is, expressing themselves, even if they have not evolved as artists yet. i think it is important to be careful because you don't want -- or my fear is that it excludes young people who need to be in this room from even

walking through the door. [applause] it happens a lot. we have talked about our young people as if they should know or as if -- i almost feel like -- for me, it is the dangers are in criticizing and in not offering a solution or a hand. what i see when i go into schools, a do a lot of doors in colleges -- i do a lot of tours in high school. you have to go where they are and to meet them i too high.

-- eye to eye. i think that this squelches them, not only within our community .

>> there are people who will say anything, do anything to make money. that is just the way they are. do we justify that? the question really has to be in my mind is that up to the community and looking at ourselves in the mirror and what do we choose to consume. at the end of the day, what brothers are doing, for instance -- for instance, highly educational positive lyrics were selling records, you would have more brother's doing highly educational lyrics. the question which gets to the

bigger wheel of these bigger corporations and who are they choosing to promote. i guarantee that there are artists who came through the door with elevated lyrics and things that were more positive, etc., and they were like, no, but we will promote this guy who is talking about killing people and raping women. there is a promotion side and the consumer side. i think that we can start pointing fingers but at the end of the day in this conversation, i think that we don't necessarily need to talk about who is running this because they are not here. we can talk about what we choose to purchase. those films did not make as much money or have the viewership or

have a traction online or otherwise as other things that people do that are more sensational. this is with guns, breasts, sex, and all sorts of things. i know that i can make my own personal choice about what i choose to do. i turned to look at this as a project. if the project has a more redemptive quality, if it has no redemption, i will not do it.

when i look at the lyrics of "big pimping" that is horrendous. at this point in his life, he looks back and he says, i regret this. is he going to act on that regret and say, i know that is where i was then, this is where i am now. these are the resources at my disposal so therefore i can put other young brothers and a position to do something different. that is what i don't want to begrudge him or the person that he was at that point. [applause]

>> i am very proud of the generation. they don't know how powerful they are and on whose shoulders they stand. i have done this for 60 professional years. other people know how powerful they are. i think there was a point where the decision was made just before integration and we were incredible historical people and we had neighborhoods where a child could not go out the door until they had a proper dress code, respect for their elders, respect for the opposite sex, spirituality, hygiene, and physical fitness before they went out the door with the knowledge upon whose shoulders they stand. somewhere in the transition from segregation to

integration, we were hit my stick by this additional apple. -- we were hypnotized by the fictional apple which we thought was our salvation but all along we had it inside of ourselves. today, i believe it is back to basics. if those children are bad and they put up those red stars. they were not taught as decent things that i was taught before i went out the door. i did not concern myself these days with the establishment and what is coming on the screen. i am more concerned with telling my children and my grandchildren that there is no such thing as impossible. god is in charge all the time. there are certain things that we must have before we get out in the streets.

you would have less gangbangers, you would have children that know what the rules are. they would know the actions and thoughts about taking care of one another. even today, we're talking about the economy, we're talking about the military, we are talking about all kinds of stuff. most important problem with this planet is that it is dying. the most important commodity is our children. if we're not addressing those we're like a 7 30,000 at 30,000 feet and we are crashing down and arguing about who will be in first class. -- if for not addressing those

we are like a 737 at 30,000 feet and we are crashing down and arguing about who will be an first class. >> the struggle that you had been through to have depth and it is that they had. >> when i approach you, i knew that 98%, 99% did not know who we were. i am thankful that you gave us the chance to be here. they did find out what we did and who we were. these guys went hungry, they got busted up. i had never thought that i would run into racism in hollywood even though i worked on a plantation in mississippi, i picked cotton, i did the whole thing. i got injured in 1972 and i had

taken a different step. the white stand guys, the white producers, cannot heard me. i will be your mouthpiece. i went up against cbs and honda. you are letting white boys advertise this. that is what i ran into. i always spoke out. i would never be quiet. we are team players. we are here for all of the black stuntmen. the only thing -- the younger actors, i would like to know how many young actors in hollywood today knew who opened the doors. that is the question i would like to ask. who open those doors?

[applause] we proudly get the honor that we deserve. no one knew. my grand kids are here today. they knew. the public here knows. i appreciate being here and thank you for inviting me. >> we thank you for your ongoing support of the naacp. [applause] >> i would like to thank people like harry, lou, bill, they are the ones when we started this fight, if we did not have the support of the actors, they did not have a lot of power at that point. they would say, i want a black stunt guy. sometimes this was at the threat of losing their jobs.

we want to let the people know too not stop the fight. because we have president obama, that does not mean we have the fight over. keep the fight going. keep the door open for the ones coming behind you. >> i would like to just put forth a thought rather than a platform challenge. this is not the first time that there has been a collective body called the young. there has always been the young. there was a young before my time. there was a young and the time the frederick douglass, harriet

tubman, so dirt truth. this has happened all over the place. -- there was young in the time of frederick douglass, harriet tubman, sold turner -- sojouner truth. i am looking at gillian sitting here. he was sitting with people his age and and they did not wait for history or future to dictate their behavior and how they saw.

dr. king was 24 when he stepped into the breach. that is a fairly young age for a man to step into a role as fast as he stepped into. i find that there are very convenient arguments put forward by people who take the identity of the young by creating some kind of manacle bought -- some kind of mea culpa. you have a history of resistance, you have a history of young people stepping into the breach. you have had the freedom rides celebrating these past few weeks. all of those things where the well from which you could drink your own truth.

my question is, what happened between that time and now when all such behavior of courage, resistance, rebellion was most evident and today you find them lying fallow. why isn't it that tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of young people in tunisia can that rebel against oppression. here in the united states, you cannot find the voice of the young in dealing with the oppression that we are experiencing, not just economically but psychologically, culturally, all dead. .- all of it [applause] >> in her keynote address, the chairman quoted a line and i think it is relevant because it is from a film.

one of the characters told their daughters that sometimes courage skips a generation. and do you think that courage has good degeneration? >> in my last book, the books about relationships, the part that speaks to the black family. one of the worst or more startling statistics was that in 1966, 82% of black children would be raised in a two parent households. you fast forward to 2006 and that number jumps. people say that they're not staying together. 84% of asian-american families in 2006 are the children raised

in a key part households. 79% of white american children are raised in two parent households. 69% of latino american children are raised in two-parent households. 31% of african-american children to attend% are raised by women. where did the men go? [applause] why do we not have men in the home teaching young men have to be men and teaching young women not to fall victim to young men who want some kind of love and they never got it from their parents and therefore they seek it in other ways. i believe that if we want to talk about what is really going on with young people in our community, we have to look at the destruction of the black

family. we are looking at these in the extinction of a complete african-american family. that could be where the kurds would come with the brothers that did not stay at home. >> present company excepted when i talk about courage because i know you are out there talking about this all the time. >> i would never say that courage would skip this generation. there are a lot of people during obama's campaign who are out there in great numbers, in great force. young people of color, young black people going to nightclubs, come and look -- going wherever our people were and saying, your voice matters.

please vote. there are people of courage out there. young people with courage. part of what is happening is that the history that i am so blessed to know that i am here listing to is not being taught in our schools. [applause] i studied political science at african-american studies in college. never thought that i was steady african-american studies. i was like, i am black, i don't need to know what it is. i went into school not knowing anything about myself. i graduated knowing more but had to go to college to get that information to be educated and to know who i am. i am talking about curriculum, not to mention the fact that almost 50% of our kids are

dropping out of high school anyway. even on the streets at those nine clubs, philadelphia in particular, i would never forget being in the city and standing outside and watching young people go into the clubs. apathy is not even the right word. i went in there and thinking that that was the problem. this is really not knowing, really and truly not believing that your voice will do anything because you don't know what happened before, you don't know whose shoulders you are standing on. it is not talked. i know that is my educational experience and from mine being out there campaigning. kids that did not know. i think that is part of the problem.

besides that, there are courageous young people. in this vacuum of not knowing, the idea that even organizing. how -- why would this generation have to reinvent the wheel and have to learn how to organize? they don't even know that exists. >> we have a wonderful website called naacphistory.org. this is a compelling site. we get into this and we continue to grow it. >> utilization of technology is one way we can organize. this is a way that we can say, we all have different ideas about how this problem came to be. we know there is a problem. how can we start to educate?

we can start being connected more. how many people are on twitter? significantly less than half. tweeter is an instant way to be in contact. i would suggest that everyone in this room get on twitter, follow me, follow loop. you have something that you want to say, hit me with it. i have one had a 60,000 followers, i can put it out to them. all the sudden, one thing that you wanted to say can be to one and a 60,000 people in one second. -- 160,000 people in one second. >> we might have to come back from being upset the industry for not doing our stories

properly. i don't expect them to do that. i think the bat that belongs in history. the irish did theirs, the italians did theirs, the jews did theirs. they could speak for weeks about their history. we have to do hours. that child in the street doing wrong, we don't come from that. week come from a neighborhood and before that became from a tribes where everybody was responsible for everybody. some of the men have lost the power to do that and they are gone. we have to get the young men back to assuming the responsibility of taking care of their own and make sure that the young woman is respected. life has to do with self examination and getting with god's grace. this problem of economics, i don't think about economics as i have been broke for a long time. this is god's way of us having

to rely on one another again. it is our responsibility. there was all these breakdowns to me sometimes in the arts. even with the naacp, it took them a minute to open up the hollywood era because of how important is the industry, and the media and the influence on politics. one of the major hurdles i keep thinking about is where is our business community in supporting our arts? i pose that to you, mr. belafonte, because you look at the global world and the global marketplace and you know the value of our story. but is a disconnected how come

we have not been able to bring that together? -- what is the disconnect and how come we have not been able to bring that together? >> there is not enough time to speak in the fullest sense but let me make the observation. never in the history of the united states of america has the curriculum of our schools ever been plentiful or reflective of our history. [applause] this is not something that has taken place just now, it has always been that way. if it has always been that way, what made other times more critically radical than what it did another time. they're breaking up of the black family as it exists today is not

that the black family has been decimated. the black family was far more decimated in the time of slavery. we talk about the black family being destroyed, it was routed during that time when children were taken from their parents and people were taken far from where they came from. there's something going on in this debate that troubles me and we are arguing in the same circle, we are arguing to the same platitudes, we are arguing to the same images and we have not been able to step outside of that and find a radical thought that takes us to other places. black men, what happened to the family. most of them are invisible. -- most of them are in prison. [applause] there are opportunities and we all had choices to do something.

there was tertial circumstances put upon us that made the options very minimal. -- there were certain circumstances put upon us. i spent a lot of time here in california. i am from new york but i spent time in the prisons of california. up in tracy come up north. working with the sheriff, with one of the great women of this country. she is the cousin of connelly's a rice but she is 180 degrees to the other side. -- she is the cousin of congolese a rice --condoleezza . there is something wrong here. we are not speaking to a deeper

thing. women saying and doing things and all in the final analysis, it comes in the end to not getting involved, forgive me for not being a participant. i do not buy it. there are a lot of people. [applause] in a lot of places that do not buy it. this thing as much bigger than what we are talking about. it is our ability talk to the larger picture and a larger price that we pay than what we're doing now and what is available to us. it is true that all the power that exists in the old black celebrity bowl, we have never been able to come together and create some institutional base

that is ours and it seems to me we could have long ago put together a black distribution system. [applause] although it could not reach 100 million people in an instant, it would have to reach 100,000. if you have 100,000 people being exposed to a great truth, i would rather have that than 100 million people exposed to something has backed u.s. and meaningless. agee as bva -- as vaccous and meaningless. it is our responsibility. the textbooks are not right, why have we not corrected the

textbooks? the fact that the larger society does not do it? there are black schools, black churches, black communities that can take the initiative to do what it wants to do. and it does not do it. [applause] why we use the very talented in our midst? take back -- step back and take another look at what are we really doing richer mark yes, have a picture coming up called singing a song. it is a documentary. it is one hour and 44 minutes long. it will be on hbo on october 17. people's lives in the town say that i do not understand how that got on the air.

the content and what this film says touches deeply into radical thought. mandela speaks to it, others will be heard speaking to it, how did he did to hbo? what made me so lucky? i am not lucky, i got smart. [applause] and in pursuit of ego and a large, ridiculous sums of money, we have sold our birthright in the name of the more victim than responsible. [applause] >> tatyana, you are absolutely right.

you are out there right now trying to put together funding to tell the stories you find are important. how's that going for you? >> it is going. it is like being a detective. getting clues and finding ways and proving ourselves as a production company. it is going well. the thing that i wish that there were more of is thinking about the people in front of the camera, but there are very few agents of color, distributors of color, people in the studios of color, and that is something

that i think would probably help. but we are making our way, we are definitely making our way, and there are projects that we're working on and the stories that we're trying to tell, we believe been enough to not have to water down its content. so that there would be no purpose in doing it. >> we're at that process where we cannot rely on the established distribution system. thank god for tyler perry, etc., but if we cannot do that overnight, something as a lesson, we need to get that out to people who see them and identify them. that is getting there.

we're doing the right thing. there is one movie coming out called the under sheppard, about father dickson and making churches. the history about how we do things that we need to identify with is happening today. it is happening even as we speak. we need to think outside the box. we need to get the message to you. you are our audience. if we put it out there, you buy that, we get our money back and we can do another message. it is very popular and it happens even as we speak. we can continue on that path. in in the history, we have so much to teach one another about history. but we keep waiting for someone else to do that.

it is us that needs to do it for ourselves. >> in terms of hollywood specifically, as i heard her speak, we have been in rooms together collaborating and kicking projects together. i think that lou is absolutely right. we have to figure out how to multitier, with projects that are out of the reach of tatyana or i, funding them, we have to figure out how to go to the masses and say if everyone gives $5 we can make this movie. are going to the studio or production company, versus doing even smaller versions or less expensive material. i have been working on cutting down the price of doing quality

films come under $50,000, or $25,000. attempting to do those and self distribute those, put them offers social media and sell them on itunes so i am not lying on the distributor on someone giving me the green light. -- relying on the distributor or someone giving me the green light. but i also want to maintain the level of quality. there is a cost to that. they're people who are professional at doing that like a professional editor. they are good because they have to get paid for quality work. sometimes it is difficult. it andere is a way to do i agree with mr. belafonte. if we think about different options and pursue our own way. i'm about the area of my lane and what is in my lane. i am not about to tell you what

your lane should be. you should work your lane. as long as we are moving, in a way, in my opinion, where you are acting -- i said this yesterday -- courage is one of five favorite words. the entomology of that word is cold, from heart. i try to do the best job i can from my heart. that is what is about forming. >> i would like to make a suggestion. i think the naacp should use its own power and create not just for the purpose of this convention but as a matter of its daily mission that you should work at pulling together a group of artists who come with

the dilemma and how to fix what is wrong, and give us the opportunity to sit in the room and hammer out the radical thought and civil option of -- and some options of what we have not been able to do up until now. i'm coming to the city with a group that is negotiating a relationship with facebook and there's certain forces within facebook the see the social conditions as something for what they have a greater responsibility than they have evidence until now. if you get on the facebook system, you're talking about 750 million people, all of whom would have the capacity for that system and the internet and all the other aspects of the technology, to make selections.

we need to give them the marketplace to make selectivity that does not exist right now. i think the naacp and its resources in terms of future thinking should be able to call together a group of artists and thinkers and philosophers and analyze the system, analyze the economic fallout, and the economic possibilities, and began to look at a way in which we can move away from the belly of the beast. hollywood will never, ever, ever yield to the needs of people of color. it is not our instrument. it is not yet our instrument. [applause] and i believe what we have to do is to find a way to deal with

how we distribute to our own interests and how we reached our own community, especially the technologies. but i think any further they have a son arcades, spending on the same rhetoric and saying the same thing, is just where they want us to be. speaking to nothing to suggest solutions. you will not find solutions and to you are willing to embrace radical thought. every time black people have moved ahead in the history of this country, it is because a group of people were at the table, men and women, daring to think radically and do radical things. [applause] i am through. >> no, you just guarded. [laughter] were we going to do some

questions from the audience? are we set up to do that? >> you have got one minute. >> oh, ok. closing thoughts. [laughter] >> i have one. >> wide do we not do lady's purse? within the us closing thoughts, and i apologize, again, i would love to sit here and get through the radical thought process now. >> yes. >> can you tell us your causes and what you are working on and where you would like our support even? >> astiz case and is but a great deal to my life and my family's life. -- education has been a great deal to my life and my family's life. it has given me an incredible

personal power, the ability to think my way through what is going on around me. i work on telling children how important their education is. i just want to say how honored i am to be up here on the stage, and terrified. to see what the naacp has done, i certainly would not been here or had any access to light that i have had. it is really quite an honor to be here sharing my thoughts and the things that i have learned in my life among steel wall. -- amongst you all. you'd totally blew my line. that last payment that humane,

-- that last statement that you made, that hollywood will never tell our stories the way they will like them to tell them. i wish we could be here much longer. i really -- it has a young black woman, my sister and i are trying to tell the stories that we wish we would have seen, the stories that would have been selling it -- so much to us. we have the story about real life black girl's super hero. things that will really, i think, a fact -- affect the way that art can. i appreciate very much into the beverly hills branch, thank you. [applause] >> despite all the things that happened to the people, i found

myself in cape town, for the indian ocean is a one-sided and the atlantic is on the other. and i was feeling bad about a lansing's and america. nothing has happened to me personally that has not happened to them to fall. he came out of robert island with a smile on his face. because of that smile on his face, he brought grace to the people and now they're incredibly, a genius. they could easily put the whole country together. you have to think about the optimum philosophy for all people to believe in. my philosophy is that everybody in this plant belongs to this planet. there is no one better or lesser. i will continue they will love, compassion, an understanding to even the enemy. and i pray on a 24/7 basis that

my prices will be done in hollywood. i think that love understanding and god's way is a stronger way than what the problem is today. i think it will go away. hopefully it would like to see galway and my generation but i will do everything to make these people just as relevant as what is on the screen today for the sake of all of our children. and for children living that way and a young age, so that racism and indifference does not exist. that is the optimal philosophy. a lot like to get that on the screen. i will die trying. >> alex, do you want to give your thoughts? >> it has been extreme pleasures sitting on this panel with the likes of harry belafonte, lou gossett, yourself and hill.

we realize that we have to keep the message out there. became continue to move forward. cobb was all of us. >> willie? >> my closing thoughts are bring you had all of these guys stand up, a lot of these guys would not be able to stand up because they had been busted up so bad. our love for someone to effort to restore about the black stunt man. and what we have contributed to society. some may bar stunts friend had passed on since 44 years ago we started this. and i will be my drive from now on, to get someone to a movie about these guys out there. and i think you very much for

being here. >> thank you. >> this sunday will begin the third year of my summer empowerment academy, which is to my foundation, the manifest destiny foundation. i took the profits from the book that i sold, the policy debate took a lot of them, but the ones that came to me. [laughter] destiny manifest your foundation. we take people falling through the cracks it is speak particularly eighth graders going in the ninth grade and dealing with the dropout crisis in our community. with the support of reorganization like at&t, wells fargo, and other folks like that, we have been able to cobble together an outstanding program. it starts again this monday and we will have about 70 young

people here in l.a., going to west l.a. college, we will meet with them one saturday a month for their entire freshman year. last year we had a young brother they came in with a 2.2 gpa and in his freshman year he ended up with a 3.7. [applause] we're proud of the work that we do and my vow, it is to continue to fight the fight that i can, in the best way that i know i'll print it low continue to write books that hopefully elevate those buried in the income i make whether acting or otherwise, and feed that back into our community through my foundation. and hopefully a fight change and at least one person's life. -- effect change in at least one person is like. get on twitter and follow me.

i am on twitter every day and looking at folks ideas, what they are hitting me with, what they are sending me. as a great way to communicate. >> mr. belafonte, any closing thoughts? >> i like to express my great appreciation to the naacp or not only this convention but convening us to have this rather brief order exchange. [laughter] >> i thought was graceful. >> that, too. sometimes can be the most awkward thing in any given moment. -- grace sometimes can be the most awkward thing in any given moment.

but having said that, when i sat and listened and leslie to conversations and counseling bois andw. b. both vode listening to paul robeson and does other giants of the day, that it a lot it touched my life and did -- and gave me aspirations and goals to go after it. and that experience never left me. today, because of that experience, i sit with a group called a 11-99. it is youth and its constituency is 430,000, the largest body of

workers in the east new york state. when it comes to labor, they can do nothing without addressing 11/99. it is service, and employees international union. they'd go for bop people they go in the hospitals and take care of cleaning up the surgery room and patients who are in need. all those people who mop the halls of but the garbage out, they belong to the national union, which is seiu. [applause] when you take the national body, that is 2.3 million members. they reached out to me and said they had a program called bread and roses.

you go and fight for the bread but our souls are a draft in what we need for ourselves, we need roses. they have this cultural program called bette -- bread and roses. they're putting together a truly imaginative and large website. they're putting together a film, and a record company, but they know one thing, we have a choice as to what we can go see. and they have the resources to do that. now they're finding this foam on the life of paul robeson and they will make that film since no one else wants to make that. [applause] they're putting together the

1199 choir which is made up of people of color from africa and the caribbean latin-american in a large number of candidates coming from america. they have as a group come to the resolve that although we will deal with what exists, they will also shape our own destiny by bringing what our good friend is not exist. i think it is in places like this that artists, especially those with celebrity profiles, have the capacity to make things really happen in a big way. but you have to have the mentality and the cultural hepatitis a, the amigo where poor people live, the amigo find

what they are prepared to do. i would suggest that the naacp and could reach into the zones and begin to find ways on what it is that communities and people can really do beyond what we already know. i did not find 1199 , if down me. and with that came the offer to come and work with them because they want a culture at another level. they have a youth program which is quite politically active and conscious. it is a politics of the lead. it makes no bones about it. it is not time to be middle of the road. it is not time to satisfy all people at all levels on everything.

i would just tell the -- you that if you ever won a find 1199 in new york on the 14th floor with a group of about 26 young people i have never seen such radical thought and behavior. couple of them come from harvard university, so understand is more than just those the or the bottom of the top. they make up the bulk of the energy. some say we do not what wall street of the big money, we want what is real and what is honorable. so we throw our lot in with where is going on. >> thank you very much. i want to thank the panel appeared before we disperse, i want to welcome to the stage our chair and vice chair.

>> on behalf of the national board of directors of the naacp, we want to thank this panel, this phenomenal panel. we have been inspired and educated. and mr. belafonte, you have given us the charge. we pledge to you, working with our hollywood bureau that we will move forward to release black america from the belly of hollywood. also, mr. gossett, we thank you for giving us the radical pump. my sister and i love the work that you've been doing with us every step of the way. into the stunt man not cause the asian -- and the stunt man as ses in, we thank you for opening the door. for opening the doors. [applause] we want to go on record to say thank you.

the work is not done. the work is not complete. up with the radical thought and with us working together, we will get the job done. let's think this panel one more time. -- let's thank this panel one more time. >> tomorrow on c-span, a cnn republican president to debate on national security and the economy. you will hear from eight of the presidential candidates. this debate took place at d.a. our constitution hall in washington, d.c. and was hosted by the american enterprise institute and the heritage foundation. you can see that tomorrow and 9:20 p.m. eastern on c-span.

the story of the civil rights movement cannot be dealt with of birmingham, alabama come and today we look behind the scenes at the history of literary life of the southern city. on book tv, september 15, 1963 -- all bomb rocks the 16th street baptist church, killing four young girls prefer that story through the eyes of a survivor and friend. even under the hazardous working conditions, people fought to work at the attack -- the cotton mill in jackson. an american history tv on c- span3, stanford university history professor jonathan pass on how monolithic king jr.'s letter from a birmingham jail set a tone for the civil-rights movement. toward us lost furnaces opened in 1881. it produced iran for nearly 100 years. tune in today at 6:00 eastern as

the curator continues with a discussion on birmingham during the great depression. this weekend on c-span2 and c- span3. in the newly designed c- span.org website has 11 video choices, making it easier for you to watch today's events. it is easier for you to get our schedule. you can quickly scroll through all the programs scheduled on the c-span networks. you can even receive an e-mail alert when your program is scheduled to air. a section to access our most popular programs. a handy channel finder said you can quickly find where to watch our three c-span network on cable or satellite systems across the country. the all new c-span.org. >> the senate commerce committee recently held a hearing on the reoccurrence of concussions in youth sports.

urology doctors were joined by a previous at least to discuss the short and long term impact of injuries. jay rockefeller noted that over 70,000 high school football players suffer from concussions each year, with thousands more injured at the university level. this is just over two hours.

they help build you, social relationships and learn to work as team. they keep them physically active and healthy and according to the nassau high school sports created injury study, participation has almost doubled in the last 30 years. this is fantastic news and i think it is important for us to highlight the benefits that spillane of playing sports. however, participation in athletics carries with it significant risk of injury. just last week, there is a news of a tragic death of a 16-rolled football player who died after sustaining a head injury during a game. it's important to everyone, coaches, parents, physicians, and the athletes themselves understand as risks and identify injuries when they -- when they occur. concussions have the potential for severe injuries and multiple concussions can cause significant repercussions later in life as we will hear about today. especially with many media reports of a high-profile

incidents in the nfl, we often associate football with concussions. concussions are a risk when playing football, but players in many sports run the risk of sustaining concussion as we will hear. it is imperative for coaches and parents involved in all sports to hear about the dangers associated with concussions and of how to recognize the signs and symptoms and what to do if a player suffered a concussion. i look forward to hearing from the doctors about the research to further the knowledge we have about concussions, but many questions remain as to the causes and effects of concussions. i'm very edges in hearing from the experts on what is known and where we can go from here. as we will also discuss, there is a wide variety of athletic equipment on the market that claims to use concussion-

reducing or concussion- preventing technology. parents want to keep their children protected, but navigating the many products and claims in the marketplace, especially on line can be overwhelming. it can be easy to read as something offers the best maximum-security protection and assume their child will be safe from injury. that is simply not true. some products may offer better protection than others, but we need to explore what resources exist to help parents and coaches know what level of safety a product will actually provide. i don't know how the average parent or coach can be confident the equipment they purchase of a genuinely offers a greater safety benefit or if its advertisement contains misleading or deceptive claims. i hope our witnesses today will be able to help me answer this question. along with knowing the safety benefits and limitations of sports equipment, parents and coaches need to educate themselves on what to look for in the event that an athlete as a potential concussion.

-- an athlete has a potential concussion. there are a number of different materials available for this purpose. perhaps the most well-known education effort is the heads up initiative by the cdc in partnership with dozens of professional organizations and individuals. individual associations like u.s. a football have their own education campaigns for coaches and added treat -- how to teach proper executions of plays and tackles so athletes are in as little danger as possible. but the campaign's best be effective in order to effect change. i'm interested to learn if there is data that shows whether these efforts are reaching a wide enough audience and promoting awareness sufficiently. i know today's hearing will draw attention to this support and safety issue. parents and coaches must chat -- must have the resources available to them and know how to react when one occurs. the benefits from participating

in sports are many and i hope the potential for injury does not prevent anyone from playing. mr. chairman, thank you for calling this important hearing and i look forward to hearing from our witnesses. i ask unanimous consent that this statement from the sporting goods manufacturers association and u.s. a football be in the record. >> it is so done. >> with that, i yield back. >> i think the senator and call upon senator udall has been used in putting together all of this. -- who has been huge in putting together all this. >> thank you, senator rockefeller. thank you for that nice comment. i very much appreciate you holding this hearing today. i would ask my full statement put in the record. mr. chairman, i greatly appreciate your efforts to promote a brain research and, as chairman of this subcommittee, you're close attention to consumer protection issues. concussions used to be

dismissed as simply being as or bell ringers. we know now that a confession is a form of dramatic brain injury that should be taken seriously. according to a recent summer for disease control report, emergency room visits for sports and recreation-related traumatic brain injury increased by 60% among children and adolescents over the last decade. the cdc attributed its rise to greater concussion awareness, which is a good thing. now that athletes, coaches, and parents have a better understanding of concussions, sports equipment makers appear to be taking advantage. there are a number of so-called "anti-concussion" and "conduct -- "concussion-reducing devices" on the market. while we should encourage innovation to protect young athletes, we to make sure advertisers play by the rules. expert witnesses today can shed some light on "anti-concussion"

claims used by some sports equipment manufacturers. now we know more about the dangers of concussion, but we should not forget how important sports and physical activity is for children. the cdc estimates only 18% of american high-school students participate in at least one hour of this collectivity a day. ms. of physical activity a day. that's the amount recommended by the department of health and human services. among high-school students in new mexico, only 23% are getting it. this could lead to negative health consequences that last a lifetime. so we need to encourage kids to play sports, exercise, and be more physically active. injury is always a risk, but the benefits far outweigh the dangers. as we learn more about the dangers of concessions for long -- four young athletes, we can take steps to make sure they're played more safely. i want to thank all of the

witnesses for being here and testifying. i especially want to recognize miss alexis ball who traveled from albuquerque to share her experience with sports concussion. in reviewing the doctor's testimony, i find it poignance she discusses a former nfl player who tragically took his own life earlier this year. in 2007, he testified before this committee. according to news reports, he informed his family he wanted his brain to be studied and he hoped people could learn more about the affect of brain trauma so kids could play football more safely in the future. in keeping with this sentiment, hope this hearing will advance the goal of making sports safer for our children. with that, german rockefeller, thank you very much and thank you for being here -- chairman of rockefeller, thank you for being here. >> that is a pretty powerful statement. >> thank you. >> mess alexis ball, i would like to call on you first.

>> chairman rockefeller and members of the committee. i would like to thank you for inviting me here today. i'm a senior at the university of mexico and i appreciate you letting me take an advocacy role on confession awareness. i have always been a high achieving student athlete. i was a player of the year and valedictorian. my junior year in college, i was an academic all-american, captain of my team and received first-team all conference honors. however, i have accrued about as many concussions as a word i have received. i was disqualified from plane collegiate athletics in 2009. falling to concussions i sustained in the beginning of this season. >> what you are saying is so important and moving and powerful but i want you to slow down a tiny bit. >> i'm sorry. during preseason, i was offered

at opportunity for a shot from that the are. i banged it and hit my head. it was clear i had a concussion due to bid dizziness and seizures that followed. my coaches were not pleased when i call them and inform them of the concussion. in accordance to the team doctor for karmas, i sat out for a week. after that, i met with him again. he asked me if i had a concussion -- could you remember these three words. i was still experiencing headaches and about the business at the time but it was a week of the first game of want to play, thus i supplied the necessary answers to get cleared. i played for two weeks with no issues but i took a header on the top of my head. i was unable to stand up and needed assistance to leave the field. i sustained another concussion. i sat out for about a week and i returned to play.

the weeks following this confession were horrible. -- concussion were horrible. i was playing terribly and was simply not myself. i was no longer able to sleep at night. i would fall asleep around 3:00 in the morning after laying in my bed rest of leeson's 10:00 p.m. the night before. i cannot pay attention in class. the most disturbing change is a change my personality. i would didn't -- oregon crying randomly in class -- i would begin crying randomly and practice. i would sit and stare into space. the high achieving student athlete was permanently gone. my mom was concerned about my well-being and force me to go see a doctor. i told him about my struggles and he was concerned. in an effort to seal is happening, i took a narrow site test. in deal -- revealed by visual memory was impacted. my doctor explained i was experiencing symptoms as a combination of the two confessions by a sustained prior. i was shocked. my doctor and i talked about the

status of my future. we talked about implications if i were to sustain another concussion. i have already accumulated 10 concussions in about eight years, most of which were all wearing protective head gear. the doctor concluded for the safety of my future i should hang my cleats. ultimately, i had to separate my head from my heart. concussions are a very serious insult to your brain. [unintelligible] people talk about an athlete sustaining a concussion like it's the big deal. too often the severity of a concussion is dismissed. if an athlete sprained ankle, it is apparent externally their injured. this is not the case with concussions. see physical manifestations of a concussions. many of the symptoms are not associated with the initial blow. i had no idea my insomnia or sadness i felt could be related to an injury i sustained in months prior, which is something

i want to emphasize today. athletes must be aware of a sustained a concussion, symptoms can last longer than a few days or weeks for that matter. they can last a lifetime. another issue athletes need to be aware of is the efficacy of head gear and helmets. i wore protective head gear since my second concussion in high school prayer the recommendation of my trainers. it was supposed to be a preventive measure and clearly this did not hold true. i sustained about eight concussions since wearing it. it is essential for athletes and coaches to know athletes are not free from concussions because they have protective head gear. furthermore, i believe it's important to note the mentality to return to play as quickly as possible is prevalent in the world of athletics. there's a lot of pressure on athletes to just deal with their injuries, whether they are in jeopardy of losing their starting position are playing time.

it is easy to lie about your symptoms when it comes to concussions. i knew the answers needed to return to play. no one could prove whether i had a headache or not, so i could lie. in retrospect, this is poor -- is a poor decision but i did not understand the severity of the concussion of the time. i continue to play for much longer than i should have and i most certainly return to play too quickly. people have only one brain for life. i will never regain the visual memory i one tat and i will never be able to regain the respect i lost and i struggle to the last season of soccer. concussion awareness needs to be more prevalent among coaches and athletes in our society. most coaches and athletes do not understand long-term ramifications of concussions. people need to understand wearing protective gear does not stop concussions from occurring. i want to thank you for inviting me again today to further public awareness about this in visible injury. >> thank you. you did extremely well. mr. steven threet was at arizona

university and was a started at -- a starting quarterback there and is coaching the team. >> thank you, chairman of rockefeller and other committee members for inviting me. it is a great honor to be speaking here on a topic that has changed my life and i am happy to help raise awareness about such an issue in male and female sports. dealing with concussions can be a mysterious process for the injured player in their family. it's exciting for me to see such a prestigious and cable group of individuals willing to learn more in an effort to help better educate and protect all athletes. throughout my playing career, i faced a multitude of injuries. however, and cause more confusion literally and figuratively at that time they occurred and concussions. each of the four documented concussions i experienced were unique in the way in which they

occurred. i sustained concussions from hits directly to my head by another player, from my head hitting the ground, and as a result of consecutive impact on separate place. while my symptoms were often similar, their range from slight dizziness and blurred vision to extreme light sensitivity and constant headaches. the severity of my symptoms have no recognizable patterns and in two cases, i returned to play one week after the injury i sustained and one instance, it only took me two weeks to recover. however, my final confession i suffered on november 26th, 2010, the resulting symptoms were the reason i decided to end my football playing career. during my playing days, brain injury was never a major concern happen on the first play of the high school game my senior season, was able to start the next game. it wasn't until my son does became serious that my attitude

change. when i decided to retire, i saw my decision simply as the right one to make. however, in the aftermath, has become apparent that my decision can be seen as an example of how dangerous brain injury is. i want to make clear my goal in speaking is not to deter athletes from competing. i'll you wish they would acknowledge the seriousness of brain injury and respect the process that comes with the recovery. in all sports, a certain aggressive mentality is required to be successful. the passion and intensity of a football player is an example of this and is i think what makes the game beautiful. as a former quarterback apricots football programs, i know the importance of and took pride in being physical and mentally tough and outworking my opponent and playing through injury. however, athletes must understand mild brain injury is not a mild shoulder separation. it is not an injury to be

played through. they must understand plain three brain injuries not a sign of toughness but a sign that athletes are uninformed on the topic. statistics have revealed about 30% of athletes who sustained a concussion return to play too early and 50% go unnoticed. this makes me believe the only focus should be to create an open dialogue between athletes, coaches, doctors, and families that address the seriousness of brain injuries and athletics and the need for a full recovery before return to play. i know is possible to decrease those statistics and i no progress on this issue is already being made in many states that have passed legislation in dealing with a concussion protocol. unfortunately, there is no brain brace, there is no concussion- proof, or magic pill for remedial recovery. however, i believe there is a misunderstanding about

concussion prevention in the athlete cohort and general public. for example, a football helmet is often thought of as a brain protector when in reality, it's designed to protect the bone structure of the individual and not the brain. if a helmet could guarantee congressional attention, i would still be playing football. once again, i would like to thank you for the opportunity, but more importantly, thank you for taking the time to learn and show your support for this issue today. i look for to the future progress i know can and will be made on the topic. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. you talk about the lead program and you are exactly right. dr. bring as -- dr. kutcher, bring us some wisdom. hang>> i am extremely glad to be providing my testimony. willi am a physician and sports pathologist at the university of michigan. since 2005 are have been in

charge of the academic sports knowledge program. our program provides support for up to all ages and abilities. provide education to athletes and coaches, administrators and health-care providers. in my clinical practice i care for athletes at the time of injury, returned to play process, over the course of their seasons, carriers, and after they retire. since 2009, have also been share of the sports serology section of the american academy of neurology. i am currently co leading the effort to produce chemical base guideline support on a concussion, an effort that includes reviewing every academic paper ever published on sports concussion. i have also been recently -- recently named the director of the concussion program and the national hockey league players association. the issue of sports concussion has been gaining public interest as well as government

interest in the past several years. the majority of the focus has been on those already in the spotlight. while these athletes are experiencing the greatest doses of head impact over their lifetimes, they represent only a small fraction of the population at risk of injury. that is why i'm glad today's focus is on protective equipment being used by all athletes, regardless of level of play, age, or gender. a concussion is commonly a problem seen only in males. that is a common misperception. andbut concussions occur in females as well, with some data suggesting the concussion instance is actually higher in females compared to m ales. up to 3.8 million are estimated to occur each year in the united states and the majority of those occur in our youth.

there is great concern regarding the notion of possible long- term effects from concussion, especially on the pediatric population, which may be at even greater risk given the ongoing development of the pediatric brain. it is an injury occurring to the brain when the brain moves fast enough or suddenly enough to disrupt the normal electrical function of its component cells. given the brain is floating inside fluid inside the skull and that the head can act as a pendulum when the body is struck, movements of the brain can occur with or without a direct blow to the head as long as this call or the brain inside of it is the celebrated with enough force or accelerate it with enough force. a concussion can take on at many different forms, but include slowed thinking, memory difficulties, or other signs of memory dysfunction.

concussions cannot be diagnosed by anyone test. a diagnosis can only be made after a careful clinical a evaluation performed by a health-care professional, and preferably one experience with brain injuries. it is important to recognize that confession is not the only brain injury by can occur from head trauma. bleeding around the brain or skull fracture can occur any time that an athlete or an object is moving quickly in the field of play. there is emerging evidence that forces from multiple impacts that may not even produce concussion could have a potentially negative long-term health effects on the brain. helmets have an extremely important role to play. without them, the potential for serious injury would be -- would make many of our sports extremely risky.

for example, school fractures from playing football have essentially been eliminated from home -- by using helmets. some concussions occur not as a result of the force experienced by the scroll, but as the force experienced by the brain -- by the skull, but as the fourth experience by the brain. currently, there is no convincing data in published literature that show any particular helmet as better than any other to prevent concussion. such data is hard to collect for two main reasons. first, given the variables that exist in the athletic population and the various exposure to him? , is extremely difficult to conduct a randomized controlled clinical trial on populations of athletes. the second, given that the confession is a clinical

diagnosis with no exhaustive diagnostic tests, and a concussion and -- any conclusions are limited. there is no published data for the same reasons to show that now spans or other guards reduce concussions. i have seen results and the other direction as the new- found sense of security encourages rough play. every week i announced by parents about what equipment they should buy to prevent concussions. the truth is that no single piece of equipment can significantly prevent concussions from occurring. they occur as a natural event from playing sports. the potential harm that i see is far more than simply the financial arm of paying more for something that is not likely to work.

it comes from having a false sense of security, not understanding how the injury occurred and what could be done to prevent it. the public has a significant, but in heraclea limited ability -- helmets have a significant, but inherently limited ability to prevent concussions. there is a great deal more to learn. i look forward to it prances as we work to protect our athletes. thank you. >> let's move on. >> chairman rockefeller and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on sports concussions and their consequences. my name is dr. ann mickie, a professor of pathology -- ann mckee, a professor of biology. i am also co-director for the

center of dramatic encephalopathy. i am not speaking on behalf department of veterans affairs. mild brain injury, or concussion, is a temporary state of neurological dysfunction resulting from forces on the brain, acceleration, deceleration collateral and rotational forces. some of concussion is caused by these same forces, -- sub- concussion is caused by the same forces, but symptoms are milder. in all of these cases, the brain looks normal after the injury and there is no detectable damage on routine euro imaging, such as acy thank fdot -- such as a ct scan or mri. as the brain as a whole is stretched or deformed by these forces, there is also stretching on the support cells within the brain. the brain abnormalities

associated with a concussion occur at the molecular and metabolic levels. if an athlete returns to play before the symptoms result, the athlete risks of developing post-concussion syndrome or cysts that are a rare, but often fatal, condition. in addition, can cause severe injury can -- concussive injury can cause additional injury that develops slowly over a decade. it is triggered by repetitive concussive injury on a brand that has not healed from previous injury. this is why proper diagnosis and management of concussion, allowing the brain to complete

the rest and recover after an injury, is so important in youth sports. >> as well as the issue of relatively young children whose brains are still growing. >> absolutely. hethe youth's brain is more susceptible to concussive injuries that adult brain. children recover more slowly. u.s. athletes are also more at risk of concussion due to their -- youth and athletes are also more aggressive percussion due to their disproportionate size. and they are uniquely susceptible to second impact sandra, which has only been reported under -- second impact the syndrome, which has 11 reporter under the age of 24. it happens when there is a second head injury when -- before the sun comes up associated with the first impact have cleared.

on most americans can appreciate that and learn to love the separation of powers, which means learning to love the gridlock what the framers believed would be the main protection of minorities, the main protection, if the bill is about to pass that really comes down hard on some minority and it is terribly unfair, it does not take much to throw a monkey wrench into this complex system. so american should appreciate that and they should learn to love the gridlock. it is there for a reason, so

that the legislation that gets out will be good legislation. and thus concludes my opening remarks. >> you may not get total unanimity on the issue of gridlock. i found listening to both of you to be fascinating and i made a note to myself that for everything that might go wrong this week, it makes up for having both of you here. i appreciate that. justice scalia, the court often reviews laws passed by congress -- pardon my boys of allergy -- and you want to find out whether comports to the constitution, you have a

different standard if it was a law that passed by the slimmest of margins or a lot that passes overwhelmingly. >> no, sir, a lot is a lot. it makes the requirements of the constitution having passed both houses and buying -- and being signed by the congress or passed over his veto, it is a lot. what we do is lock. -- law. >> what is the role that the judge's play in meeting budgetary choices are the best allocation of taxpayer resources? is that within their proper role? >> you know it is not within our proper role. mr. chairman, of course it is not.

>> it is a worthwhile question for this reason. when we tried to talk about this document in general, he will have some version is, is what does this document do? i cannot tell you in one word but i can tell you in five. it creates a structure for democracy. that is the first part. that is the whole seven articles. it is a structure for people to make their own decisions through their representatives and decide what kind of city, town, state, and nation may want. but it is a special kind of democracy. it guarantees basic and fundamental rights. it assures a degree of quality. as justice scalia has of the size, it set for rides power vertically and horizontally so that no group of government officials can become too powerful. and it insists upon the role of

law. i think that the rest of it elaborates those five points. and probably justice scalia night, we are not in disagreement at that level, very rarely. so what people do not understand very often is that given those broad boundaries in this democratic process, we are the boundary patrol. if you ever listen to a radio show like sky king of the mounties -- >> before my time. >> sergeant preston. >> of the yukon, that it is. life on the boundary is cold and talked and we are the boundary patrol. those issues are very tough. what about parents schools? what about this or that? they're tough questions and what people forget, just as you are emphasizing with a budget

question, is that inside those boundaries there is a vast democratic space where it is up to the average american to decide what kind of city, town, state, and nation he/she wants. in those decisions are not ours. all we can say in a form like this is please participate in that democrat decision making, which is not our institutional job. >> the smiling justice scalia's phase says he anticipates the next question. when you are both making democracy work, you described relying on public confidence because it has neither the power of the personal the sword. you both alluded to earlier and

people ask, is the rule of law predictable? because america relies on certain programs. you feel fairly public's confidence is effected when judges overturned longstanding precedents if they have something that you relied on for generations and suddenly it is overturned? what does that do for public confidence and the rule of law? what confidence that the american public has, so justice breyer, would you like to try that first? >> there is no definite answer. you gave reasons for not overturning something, strong recent plessey v. furnaces and

-- ferguson, and brown v. board of education, longstanding precedent and absolutely no good reason to overturn it. -- absolutely a good reason to overturn a beard people have relied on this but you cannot say never. >> justice scalia. >> part of the jurisprudence of my court and all federal courts is stare decisis. it is not absolute but it is a subject that should be given careful attention. all federal courts have given stare decisis very much more weight in statutory questions. it is very rare that my core would overrule prior decisions on a statutory point. the reason being, if we got that wrong you can fix it.

you can amend the statute. but when we get something wrong with respect to the constitution, there is nobody that can fix it unless you are going to go through the use trouble of enacting a constitutional amendment. throughout our history there has been a rule of stare decisis, but beginning with the martial court, it has been less strict and that constitutional court than in statutory questions. and that is how it should be. >> easier for the lower courts, but there is that district court binding on the circuit court, but the big -- the but release stops with you. -- the box really stops with you. -- the buck really stops with you.

the 19th, giving the old women the right to vote, and more. justice scalia, i hope i am paraphrasing correctly, we should not mess with the constitution by amending it. since i have been here in the senate, saying probably 1500 to thousand constitutional amendments -- probably more than that. things that of board of aldermen and a small town would not think of doing because a was so ridiculous. -- it was so ridiculous is that in our country's interest to be

tampering with the constitution if it can be avoided? >> no, this is another respect by way we differ from most of the countries of the world. many farmers cannot understand our affection for the constitute -- foreigners cannot understand our affection for the constitution. it is no big deal to amend the constitution. and you have a unicameral legislature, pass the amendment. it is almost like a statue except that it has to be passed twice with an intervening election. alloys is very much more difficult to amend it. i have said that that is a good thing. indeed i have said that the provision i'm sure that i would think about amending is the amending provision. that sets a very high level, but

that is not going to happen, so i will not worry about it. >> my time is right now. would you like to spawn -- respond on that? >> i tend to agree with that. >> we are unanimous in our court 40% of the time. surprisingly enough, it is not always the same 5. you should be suspicious if we do not have a lot of 5-4 decisions. the main reason we take a case is that there is a circuit conflict below. that is very good federal judges who have been appointed the same way justice breyer and i were reported, have disagreed. you would smell something wrong if there are these disagreements below and the supreme court always comes out 9-0. you should expect a lot of 5-4

decisions. >> i will start with justice breyer and a couple of questions based upon our recent c-span interview that you had. the remark that although judging is not entirely about politics, you would "not say zero politics never." >> that is one of the hardest things to explain. that is part of what i've read about in the book prepared two great questions i want to get across to the audience. high school, college, in the audience. the first is that we mentioned, when you call them, when they come? why is it that americans over the course of 200 years have begun to have responded to the supreme court? some good stories in that, but the other thing i put this way. i know you're being very polite, but i also know a lot of you were thinking this -- you're thinking in those top five-four cases, we are junior league

politicians. that would be ridiculous. for one thing, that is not the job. it didn't hamilton give us the job because he thought we would not be politicians? -- cray slight dread scott -- read a case like dred scott. one of the worst decisions ever. they may have been trying to act like politicians. we know nothing about it. how do i explain that? in the 17 years since i have been a judge, do i see at decision turned on political considerations? i did work on this committee and have an instinct of politics, who is got the votes, the democrats other republicans, who is popular, who will win the election? i would have to say that my answer is never. you will think of this case for that case, i need an hour to

explain it to you but i could bring you around. what about ideologies? are you a adam smith free enterpriser or a maoist troublemaker? if i am thinking about it that way, i am doing the wrong thing. but there is a third thing. i was born and sent to cisco, i would tell lowell high school, public high school, i went to university up there. and by the time you have 50 years in any profession, you begin to formulate very general views. what is america about? what are the people of america about which mark allen this country does law relate to the average human being? how should it? al that level of generality, people may have somewhat different outlooks.

and there is no way that those different outlooks can fail to influence them some. is that a bad thing? no, i think it is a good thing. this is a very big country. we have 309 million people, 308 million of whom are not lawyers to everyone's surprise. and they have very minute news. it is a good thing, not a bad thing that people's outlook on that court is not always the same period and by how but, i mean those very basic ideas of judicial philosophy, or about the country and its people and the law and how judges are there to act and what they are there to do and what they're not there to do. that is what i mean by that word. >> and on my second question, why would it ever be appropriate for american judges to consider far and lock in interpreting the meaning of the united states constitution?

justice breyer can respond as well. >> i am afraid we're getting beyond what i had planned to discuss with you gentleman. the role of the courts, and we're getting into the manner in which the courts go about deciding their cases. i have of you on that and justice breyer probably has a different view. i have not prepared any testimony on that and i would rather pass. of course it is an issue and i think my views on that issue are known. but that is not the level -- >> if let's move on, then. discussing the court, justice brandeis said that the most important thing that we do is to do nothing.

to what extent do -- you don't agree with that? -- do each of you agree with that? >> it is important. i do not know that it is the most important. >> yes, i think the normal state of things is rest. leave things alone unless there is a reason to change it. i served in the executive branch for a while and something came to be known as the moscow auction. it sounded like cia stuff. it was named after a fellow named mike moscow, one of the president's assistance. whenever action memos went into the president, they gave the president three option. number one, 2 x. number two, do the opposite of acts. number three, do whatever of what the writer of the memo one

and, somewhere between number one and number two. moscow said that you never saw among the options, do nothing. that very often is the right answer. but it is certainly the case that you do not make waves unless there is a reason for a change, on less what the congress has done or what an agency has done is wrong, you leave it alone. >> what your question brought to my mind, i like my students to touqueville. the first extra cam was the clamor. everyone screaming at each other. what he really meant is that they are debating. they are talking about things. they are disagreeing.

he thinks that that is good and i do, too. you never really tough problem. you imagine you're trying to figure out a bill that deals with privacy and free expression. all sorts of tensions with the internet and the new messages of communication, twitter and facebook and people's privacy and you are more familiar with that. how do we decide that in this country? the general word is bubbling up. the first thing is that people start to talk. they talk in newspapers, the talking classrooms, the talks and articles, they talk with the policeman, they talk with the firemen, they talk with civil liberty groups, they begin to debate in the get into arguments. eventually gets to you. you have hearings and decide, even in agency should do it. maybe we should have a statute. maybe we should change our minds five times. eventually things will settle down.

in my court, it is really wonderful if we do not get involved until it is settled down. our only job is to decide if what you decided was within the bounds. so be careful of intervening before this big debate, this clamor he was talking about, has a chance to take over, take effect, screen, change, try it on, try and off, and that is really the wisdom that underlies this view of do not decide to much too fast. >> we do a lot of nothing. [laughter] i told you that the main reason we take a case is because there is disagreement below. if there is no disagreement before -- below, we do not go prowling all around looking for congressional statutes that are

unconstitutional. there is only when there is disagreement below that we take a case, with rare exceptions. if a lower court has found your law unconstitutional, we will take debt, but except for rare situations like that, we let sleeping dogs lie which is the way that one should live his life, i think. [laughter] >> go-ahead. >> thank you, mr. chairman. justice scalia, in your opening remarks you talked about how brilliant our system is, our constitution, and the kind of disagreement it provokes. and how difficult it is they get things done, the great part of the american constitution, in contrast with so many other countries. yet we are described as dysfunctional, as unable to get anything done. and the level of dissatisfaction is up to about 90% among the

american people. they say that we cannot get anything done, that the system does not work. how do you respond to that? >> i suppose that there is a point at which you do reach gridlock the event -- gridlock. the attitude of the american people, it is largely a product of the fact that they do not understand our constitution. its genius is precisely this power, this contradicting power, which makes it difficult to enact legislation. it is so much easier to enact legislation in france or england. but the consequence of that is that you have swings from one extreme to the other as the legislature changes. that does not happen that much here. largely because of the fact that only loss -- laws with general

agreement get through. this is one of the reasons why we educate the american people as we have not been doing for decades about what our constitution produces and what it is designed to produce. >> it is the same problem sandra o'connor is always talking about. we are limited in what we can do and probably you are, but she is out there nonstop trying to get civics restored as a high school curriculum. what do most people think about taking a case. if you are doing a survey, people would say that they set up in the big building and they decide this is an interesting subject, let's decided. that is so far from the tree. we have a system you have heard described. we tried to talk people. the annenberg foundation does

that. they are and 55,000 classes. sandra and i and the now have sometimes discover that it is important -- and the no -- and nino have sometimes discovered that it is good that try to get that in the classroom. you have a different system but you try to communicate with the public quite a lot. it is probably harder for you that it is for us, but to get across the idea that that the student today passed and know how government works, they have to know something about their history, and they have to be willing to participate. very easy to say, very hard to get across. >> gentleman, as you know you have the power to decide cases themselves, but your power is also to decide which cases you will hear. you have some 8000 opportunities to make decisions every year on the cases you will hear.

last year you decided to hear 77 cases, 1% or less. what goes to your minds at collectively when you decide on which 1% you will hear and what you say to the 99% who do not get hurt? >> to the latter, we say denied. [laughter] but for the former, you are quite right. there ought to be some rules. it should not be random. it should not be whatever tickles my fancy. that is why we have a general rule that unless there is a conflict, you're wasting your time in your client's money to file a petition for certification. it is overwhelmingly likely that we will my granite. it is not true that we prowl

about looking for an issue to get to the court. i do not know any of my colleagues said behave that way. if there is a significant issue on which the lower course of divided, and for the others, i'm surprised it is only 8000. i thought we were up to 9000 now. it when i first joined the court, there was only 4000. that is how much that has increased. it is a fairly large part of our job, just deciding what we will decide. every one of us look set summaries of all nine thousands of those petitions. >> there are 1500 week. memo form, they come into the office, and the originals are back there on my show. if we sat down tomorrow, the two of us, even though it is not part of the job, maybe 140, and if we were there together, but cut that you would make would not be much different than the one i would make.

they sort of speak out. and in the conference, and other groups of lawyers they like to see is take more cases. when center was on the court, she said we have to get more cases here. no one is making an effort -- that is not the attitude in the conference. the attitude in the conference is that there is a split, let's take it. we have room to hear more. >> respectfully i disagree and perhaps you can respond. when you came on the court in 1987 you heard 277 cases that year. when you came on the court, justice breyer, that your you heard 105 cases per last year you heard 77 cases. >> we never heard 277. when i came on the court, we

were deciding about 150. i'll tell you, i don't think that we can decide 150 well. if he go back and the get our opinions in those days, if you ever read an opinion in which the majority opinion and the descent are like ships passing in the night, they never quite meet each other, you'd turn to the first page you will see that is a june opinion. we are rushing out opinions at the end of the term. i do not think we can do 150 well. i think we could do 100 well very frankly, i would probably vote to take some cases that i would not have voted to take 10 or 15 years ago. but it is not as though that we sit down at the end of the year and say, ok, this takes 75 cases. the best 75. that is not what happened. they trickle in week by week. we both on the ones that week that seemed worth taking. at the end of the term, they add that to whatever they added up