>> the last question for both of you is, is there anyone on a national stage today who would be an heir to ross perot? >> there have been other third- party movements. in 1948, strom thurmond and the dixiecrats, 1968 with george wallace and the american party. but he was really trying to create a centrist movement. that is why he hired ed rollins there are republican strategist and burden jordan a democrat to working as campaign. he was trying to play down the middle. i do not think we have somebody willing to get in the game like that. you hear sometimes mayor bloomberg name has been evoked. donald trump has all these games for his own publicity, but he has not gone into the game and focused on the issue. i think one of the things in

thinking about ross perot is he actually did it. it is wanting to talk about it -- it is one thing to talk about it but to get on all 50 and to get to the point where you are getting 19% of the american people -- that 19% is still the middle-class center that both president obama and whoever the republican nominee is fighting for. the working class, blue-collar, patriotic, taxpaying american citizens and rust belt towns or tumbleweed towns in the west that are hurting economically. he is talking about a massive reform. he is most like theodore roosevelt in 1912. couple months party. -- the bull moose party. they were the two most successful third party votes -- not electorial votes but popular votes of the 20th century. >> one question we did not answer from an earlier caller is whether or not ross perot's strained relationship with george bush was one of the

animating factors in his campaign. do you know if that was a factor? >> i think it was a factor because he -- going back to the pow mia days, he thought that when bush was vice president the administration was not doing enough to get the mias and pows out of north vietnam. he went into the persian gulf war without a declaration of war. he also thought that president bush was too focused on foreign affairs and was not a dress and the domestic problems of the day. he thought he did not understand the domestic problems of the day. the problems were very much like today. there are so many similarities with the economy, recession, loss of jobs, people feeling like it was no longer a government by, of, and for the

people, but government for the politically powerful and special interests. so many similarities. i do think that he felt that george w. bush was not up to the job. and that was one of the reasons that he wanted to run. but back to the question of whether anybody could do it today, maybe somebody like bloomberg, mayor bloomberg, somebody who does have their own money, who could do a similar campaign like him. but he was really uniquely positioned to run at that particular time. a conservative with a populist touch. and i think what happened to the reform party over the years

shows the difficulty in maintaining this kind of a third party movement. yes, teddy roosevelt in 1912 got 27% and 88 electoral voters. then comes ross perot in 1992 and he got no electoral votes. he got almost 20 million votes. popular votes, no electoral votes. >> carolyn, with apologies, i got to -- >> they were the most successful. >> we're at the top of the hour with one hour left to go. and doug, a quick comment. >> one important quick comment. i think the viewers really need to understand this. when we showed the pie charts of ross perot, and he's talking about this deficit and the debt. that could be eric cantor today. but what you also need to know, what makes him a more complex and different centrist figure, how are we going to make up that money?

he says, ross perot, let's tax gasoline. let's put 10 cents a gallon for five years, raise billions to pay that off. the petroleum lobby, oil lobby of texas does not like this idea of taxing gasoline. but if we would have done it back then, the so-called clean -- the sustainable, renewable energy revolution, more people paying more for gas may have triggered that new kind of innovation and of corgs the left is very much likes that. so that pie chart on the one hand it seems like a conservative pie chart. on the other hand, how to pay it is something that the democrats like. and makes perot a true centrist. >> halfway through our two-hour look at the contender, ross perot, of 1992 and 1996 elections. next phone call is from granite false, washington. -- granite falls, washington. gloria, you're our next guest. >> i loved ross perot. i remember the 1920's. and looking -- i would think that what does ross perot think of all through the political spectrum, down through those

years, franklin roosevelt, then all of the presidents. and we come to today, a total insanity. i watched the house of representatives. i watch the senate. and everything has been turned around so that only the -- certain people with a great deal of money it appears are able to turn the elections to their good. so i just -- i just wish that the good, solid, rock solid, senseability of ross perot could do anything to help us today. >> thanks very much, gloria. colleen is up next in rutherford, new jersey. hi, colleen, you're on. >> hello. i have a really good question. but he just want to make a comment and i'm glad i came after the woman who lived -- the phone call prior. her living in the 1920's. because i was in my early 20's

in the 1990's. and ross perot was the equivalent of a ron paul. the young people lotched ross perot. i used to run home and couldn't wait to watch his pie charts. i learned so much from him. and it's almost -- i almost forget bill clinton in those debates. because it really was -- ross perot really was the rock star for the people in their 20's. he had a huge following. i went to go see him in monmouth county but my question is he was very good friends with john mccain. and from what i understand, he lost touch with john mccain, i think when john left his first wife. but he recently called a reporter from "the new york times" when john mccain was running for president. and i believe that reporter wrote an article, because ross perot made a personal phone call to him. that's my question. do you know anything about his

falling out with john mccain? >> well, he was for mitt romney, ross perot, for the republican nomination the last presidential election. not mccain. it's part of that just fueds that ross perot has. we've got to really understand, this is -- mr. perot is not somebody playing right-left politics. he's not what we get on our cable talk show fest and even what's happening in washington, d.c. and so anybody who he thinks is abandoning principles on, for example, doing away with p.a.c.'s or super p.a.c.'s and you can see that the mccain was willing to start compromising on a lot of this integrity and principles. and so perot, you know, abandoned him at that point. and i also want to say, the side of ross perot is about action. it's whatever it takes to fix the problem. he's not really about talk. i think there's a famous quote

that's in their family or one of his favorite things is i don't want to hear about people that say the river is dirty. i want people that are going to clean the river. get out there and do things. and he's -- enigmatic in certain ways. you can't pigeonhole him. he's mercurial. he's a texan that wants strict gun control. and is for pro-environmental protection agency. he's pro-choice. yet, he's tough on issues about corporate -- corporate america and outsourcing of jobs, tough on the war on drugs. you can go around. what you get is sort of an old style can-do american who believes in american exceptionalism but feels we're lurings our edge. that somehow after world war ii, americans got lazy. and not the everyday working people in america, but we've stopped -- everybody is looking for leisure time and perks instead of kind of fixing the

country. the country comes before corporation to ross perot. in i think he's diagnosing 1992 and 1996 that americans' politics are broken and the financial system is broken. the military is not broken. and he's questioning how do we fix the other two? and he still feels that way today. >> the caller mentioned as a young person in her 20's watching the debates and cheering on mr. perot, and our next set of clips, we're going to do a montage from two of the three debates, presidential debates that happened that year. >> these young people, when they get out of this wonderful university, will have difficulty finding a job. we've got to clean this mess up. leave this country in good shape and pass on the american dream to them. we've got to collect the taxes to do it. if there's a fairer way, i'm all ears. \[laughter] but -- but -- see, let me make

it very clear. people don't have the stomach to fix these problems. i think it's a good time to fix it in november. if they do, then they will have heard the harsh reality of what we have to do. i'm not playing lawrence welk music tonight. you have to -- the nafta, $1 an hour, no environmental controls, etc., etc., and you're going to hear a giant sucking sound of jobs being pulled out of this country right at the time when we need the tax base to pay the debt and pay down the interest on the debt and get our house back in order. who can give nelves a 23% pay race -- themselves a 23% pay raise anywhere except congress? who would have 200 airplanes worth $2 billion to fly around? i don't have a free reserve parking place at national airport, why should my servants? i don't have an indoor tennis court and a place where i can make free tv to send to my

constituents to elect me the next time. and i'm paying for all that for those guys. >> ross perot in three moments from the debates in the fall of 1992. and for the incumbent, george h.w. bush, there was a tough moment in those debates. you will recall he was captured looking at his watch. during one of the debates. that became emblematic. we got a photograph of it, his campaign. do you remember that moment? >> of course i remember the moment. and look, george her better walker bush, who had a tough year in 1992, everything was going wrong. that's -- remember when james carville said it's the economy, stupid. and he sort of felt this was getting beneath him. we forget that debates haven't been always there. 1960, we had the kennedy-nixon debates but we didn't have presidential debates all the way until 1976. and there was some feeling particularly where george her better walker bush that debates

were a waste of time. that it was all about owning a sound bite and not about building an organization or running the country was about. but it didn't help president bush to be looking -- glancing at his watch in that regard. and i think it cost him in the election. perot and clinton did better in these debates than bush. >> how did ross perot fare in the debates in the eyes of the public? >> well, i thought, you know, i agree with doug that he probably won the debates. and when george bush looked at his watch, it sort of reinforced the idea that people had that he was not really engaged in the campaign. the debates were critical for perot. and when the debates were over, he had risen back up to maybe 21%. in 1996, he was not in the debates. and it made a big difference. i think he only got maybe 8% in 1996. so i think going back to the

question, could anybody else do it today? the problem might be getting on the debates. because now the commission on presidential debates has such stringent requirements. somebody would have to meet a 15% threshold in i think maybe five different polls before they would be allowed to be in the general election deekts. so the debates were very critical for perot, the success that he had. at getting his message out. >> carolyn joining us from dallas who wrote a book about ross perot's 1992 campaign and the people who helped him get on the ballot in all 50 states. let's take our next call for carolyn and doug. it's from houston, texas. gregory, you're on the air. >> hi. good evening. i had a couple of quick questions. first was besides having the most popular votes since t.r.,

what similarities do you see with mr. perot and ted yes roosevelt in terms of their views -- teddy roosevelt in terms of their views and outlooks and politics? who were some of the role models for ross perot? he seems to have -- he seems to have followed the mantra of william jennings brian, harry s. truman, the buck stops here. >> douglas brinkley has written a biography about teddy roosevelt. you'll take that question. >> when i got to talk to mr. perot he has two evergreen heroes and it's theodore roosevelt and winston churchill. and he takes a lot from them. we forget now that both of them were considered in t.r.'s case a damn cowboy when roosevelt became president, he was just -- mckinley was assassinated. and the republican party of mark hanna and the old mckinley machine didn't trust t.r. he was considered an iconoclast and individualist and the cowboy notion.

ross perot, his father was a cotton broker. but also was a -- broke horses, went to cattle auctions, considered himself a bit of a texas cowboy. and everything about theodore roosevelt is impressed ross perot. and i think gave him courage, if t.r. can do a bull moose party, why can't i run in 1992? and churchill it gout woes saying, anybody who loves -- it goes without saying, anybody who loves grit, winston churchill is your figure and the two people he admires most. in his office a portrait of george washington and talks about the founding fathers. but which founding father ross perot is like, i thought about in today. patrick henry. we always talk about the other founding fathers, the ones who become president. but this is about the contenders. and how do you have an american revolution woult that figure like patrick henry, an irritant? those are the type of people that ross perot admires. >> next is a call from ron watching us in everett,

washington. we're talking about ross perot. hey, ron. >> good evening. and i would like to challenge dr. brinkley a little bit. i think the comparison was t.r., even though perot may have idolized him, is heavily overdrawn. and you mentioned just a few minutes ago that -- if i understood correctly, that perot favored a flat tax. and of course that's the antithesis of progressism. i think t.r. was way out there to the left. and -- in the liberal, progressive tradition and even of course obama this week was -- speaking on the 100th anniversary of a t.r. speech there. and i don't -- even though he may have supported oil tax, i don't think he really was a wilderness warrior the way -- >> nor is he winston churchill. one is not suggesting that. those were his heroes and people -- t.r. is known as -- edward morris and myself, many sided americans, a lot of people see in theodore roosevelt what

they want to see in theodore roosevelt. but this ability to -- with t.r. and his love of the navy and wrote the two volume war of 1812 and ross perot a naval academy graduate and can't go to the naval academy and not admire theodore roosevelt, and in the navy and also as i mentioned, the cowboy side of t.r. but no, when you're getting with the bull moose party platform versus ross perot in many there's many, many, differences and many decades apart. but it's the boy scout part. theodore -- you mentioned ross perot's eagle scout. theodore roosevelt is the original champion of the boy scouts. so it's harkening back to that kind of view of america. but in politics, great differences and i wouldn't compare him -- the way you're suggesting to t.r. or winston churchill or anybody. it's just -- those are the people he admires and collects books on and likes to read about and have inspired him in the same way henry ford and

thomas edison were people that inspired him in business. >> taylorsville, illinois. this is ed. hello. ed, are you there? >> yes. from taylorville, illinois. >> yes, sir. >> i voted for perot in 1992. and i believe that's how clinton got elected and bush didn't seem like he cared whether he got elected or not. >> thanks very much. do you think that ross perot was responsible for the election of bill clinton, carolyn? >> i do. and i think there were two impacts. one is he -- similar to teddy roosevelt, he split the republican vote. and in that way, roosevelt denied taft a second term. perot split the conservative

vote. and denied bush a second term. but he did another thing, i think, by getting in the race, and beating up on bush all along the way, kind of softened him up for clinton to come in and make the kill. so i think it was sort of a two tiered effect there. and i do -- i'm not sure how the campaign would have played out without him. but i certainly think that part. impact of his being in the race was that clinton was elected. >> next call is from rick in memphis, tennessee. hey, rick, you're on the air. >> glad to be here, folks. i'm going to assert that ross perot last time he ran was exactly what the united states needed. and now there is no question, much stronger, is exactly what the united states needs.

and i would like to ask -- i'm not too well on what's going on, why is he not in the 2012 race? and also, why in the world are neither the republican or democratic candidates making a run in ross perot's image? i don't see how anybody running like that could help but win. >> why haven't we heard from ross perot in this cycle? >> i think the time has passed him and he had all of it he wanted in 1992 suspect 1996 and was really sort of a reluctant candidate in 1996. and i think that he's -- he's older now. i just think he's not interested in getting back in the fray. >> and 81 by our calculation. born in 1930. kalamazoo, michigan. connor, you're on. >> does ross perot have any opinion on jesse ventura? fellow reform party? >> i don't know his opinion of

him personally but did not get behind jesse ventura who was a little surprising because ventura being a naval -- navy seal, and of course the reform governor of minnesota, but ross perot didn't really get behind him and his efforts very much. so there's a little bit of a schism there. i think by 1996, ross perot felt like he did what he wanted to do. again, i stress for people, this notion of being an irritant. he was always trying to just make us pay attention to issues. i know when we talked about running, you're talking about win being the white house -- about winning the white house. but ross perot, more than personally becoming president, and probably wouldn't have picked stockdale if that was his sole intention in 1992 was to remind people of duty, honor, country, old style american values and to grapple with that debt issue which he as a business person, he found repulsive, a bad road for

america to take. >> we have referenced several times that ross perot won 19% of the popular vote and no electoral college votes and let's look opt screen over this next telephone call how the incumbent president george h.w. bush and the victor, bill clinton, governor of arkansas, in the final tally and we will listen to judy from ogden, utah. you're on, judy. >> one guy that got us all interested in politics back then. and with the nafta agreement. we used to go to the meetings he had with his helpers and we tore that nafta agreement apart. and we would all take a chapter home and read it and come back and discuss it. and boy, people ought to read that someday and see the fiasco they did on it. and what i was wondering is can you see anybody around at all in the future that would be anybody like him? thank you. >> thanks very much. we have a question for -- is there anyone in the wings? >> i think they have to come

out of the military today. i mean, there is this -- we used to be -- to be president you had a military background. but ross perot is part of that tradition. so maybe somebody out of -- an admiral or general someday will come in and run a third party movement. but i don't see anybody out there that's ready to get -- put skin in the game right now that's taking seriously. buddy romer, he's no ross perot. you got to have i think the money to raem do a third party. and as previously mentioned, it's hard to get into the debates and -- in the way the system is set up today. but america always produces unusual people at key moments. and i'm sure there will be sometime in the future a serious third party candidate. >> americans seem to have something of a flirtation with business people as presidents. but get so far. for example, ross perot, there was some talk about herman cain being -- earlier this year, also mayor bloomberg was mentioned as a businessman who might solve america's economic issues. we get so far as an electorate

with them. and then not all the way to the finish line. can you talk a little bit about the kinds of people americans seem to want as leaders. >> i think that's a wonderful point. we like the idea of somebody who is not part of washington. somebody who is going to do what's right for the country. and not be beholden to the democratic party or the republican party. we elect people from the military or corporate people and somebody who runs a company and knows how to run the government. and yet, once you have to start going on all the tv shows and traveling, and every aspect of your life gets investigated, i don't know how many people that want to run anymore. it's become pretty brutal for -- you basically have to run for two or three years nonstop. and president obama and i'm sure republican romney or gingrich or whoever it might be have to raise about $1 billion. and it's very off-putting in america and i think we need to really investigate how we can

shorten this nonstop running. because the president has very little time. they get elected and are running another election in this country all the time. i don't see how it's helping us. >> that caller mentioned ross perot's involvement in nafta. the north american free trade agreement. which was hallmark of the clinton administration. ross perot got very involved in the debate about that after his unsuccessful bid for the white house. and our next clip is a very well watched debate about nafta with then vice president al gore. again on the "larry king live" program on cnn. >> i didn't interrupt you. >> guys -- >> we got to have a climate in this country where we can create jobs in the u.s.a. one way that the president and vice president can do for us and they're not. >> i would like to say something about that. that's a direct political threat against anybody who votes for this. >> colin powell --

>> a great soldier and doesn't know anything about business. >> i don't want to sit here and listen to you just take shots at president clinton. >> if we keep shipping our manufacturing jobs across the border and around the world, and deindustrialized our country, we will not be able to defend this great country. and that is a risk we will never take. >> he started off as head of the united we stand and i'm afraid he's going to end up as head of divided we fall. everything that he is worried about will get worse if nafta is defeated. this is an historic opportunity to do that. >> thank you both for this historic evening. >> carolyn barta, body language in that clip from larry king live is really interesting to watch. we looked at some reporting. and it suggests that support for nafta before that debate was about -- was only about 34%. and after, i'm not sure directly related but after it went up to 57% among the american public. what was the view of how ross perot fared with this issue?

>> you know, i really can't say. i don't recall -- i just remember that he had the debate with gore. and i did not realize that he -- that he lost that debate as decisively as you have just said. i thought a lot of people agreed with his position that, you know, the giant sucking sound or the jobs going away. and in fact, i think he's proved to be pressurient about that. that's what's happened. >> next call is from larry in the florida keys. you're on the air, larry. >> hey, how are you doing? i appreciate the opportunity. i just wanted to ask, this t.r. setup, it's not the first. the national wildlife refuge is down here in the florida keys to protect birds, who were being poached for their feathers. does that ever come up in any of the debates in that year? old but not that old. >> ok.

thanks very much. do you recall that conservation issues were very much at the forefront in 1992? >> no. but ross perot as we -- when you hear about that anti-naest is very worried about -- anti- nafta is very worried about the environmental degradation going on in mexico. he was somebody who wanted corporations regulated. as i mentioned earlier, pro- e.p.a. andd caller is talking about theodore roosevelt in florida had protected pelican island, florida off vera beach created our first wildlife refuge and saved part of the ding darling national wildlife refuge so t.r. was very much in bird protection and protecting of wild florida. i would not put conservation in that way high on ross perot's list. but i put him on the side of being a conservationist. he was simply in that climate in 1992 to be pro-e.p.a. in the way that he was.

and in this election, many republicans don't like the e.p.a. and ross perot did because he did feel that companies needed to be regulated. >> in 1994, the g.o.p. had an historic retaking. house of representatives. newt gingrich who is a candidate for president this year around was looked upon as the architect of that and became speaker. house and set the stage for a huge debate over the size of the debt leading to a government shutdown that very much pitted the two men, president clinton and newt gingrich, against one another. how responsible was ross perot's highlighting of the debate issue for those subsequent events? >> that's a good question. i think it was quite important. i think it started making people worry about the deficit. but again, remember, ross perot is talking about paying for it with a gasoline tax which you don't hear republicans talking about.

but it became a big worry of the people by the time of -- throughout the clinton era. and i might also add when we're looking at that famous gore- perot clip, remember, nafta became popular with both democrats and republicans. it was al gore and bill clinton were pro nafta but also george her better walker bush republicans -- herbert walker bush republicans. it was only labor unions were opposed to it. and here you have ross perot probably more right center than left center. deeply opposed to it for the reasons he said. i think the outsourcing of jobs more than anything else is what perot was focused on in the mid 1990's. >> carolyn barta, you told us about this story before but in 1995 ross perot started to organize the -- what became the reform party. can you tell us a little bit about that effort. and how the reform party took shape. >> well, the people who had worked on the perot campaign in

1992 wanted to remain involved. and for a while, even, were very active as, you know, shadowing their congressmen and sending letters and so forth. so the reform party was organized to try to create a vehicle that would be a stable political influence of third party. and then there was -- in the convention of 1996, perot and dick lamb who had been the governor of colorado indicated an interest in running on the reform party ticket. and perot re-emerged to lead the ticket. so that probably was the high point for the reform party. after that came jesse ventura was elected governor of minnesota in 1998, i believe.

and then 2000, pat buchanan was the nominee, the presidential nominee for the party. and buchanan was a firebrand conservative but also a populist. but he certainly could not motivate the reform party people like perot did. and the party was sort of found -- it initially was established with the same kind of priorities that perot had set in his first campaign. reducing the deficit. term limits. some of these issues that ended up being in the contract for america. so i think there was definitely an impact. and you saw the republican party co-opt some of those issues. term limits was never passed. but it was part of the contract. gingrich's contract. so i think that -- with

buchanan in 2000, the party was struggling to find its core. what was it all about? and a lot of people thought that perot -- i mean, not perot, buchanan, did not really represent them. did not represent their interests very well. and i think what's happened since then, the party really has sort of fizzled. there's still a few state affiliates that are trying to be active, maybe hatch a dozen or so. but their presidential candidate got a handful of votes the last time around. so i think it just shows us that it's really very hard -- i thought that it was going to be a stable political influence.

and that once established, that it would be a challenging party in years to come. but that's not happened. it certainly has just fizzled. and actually, i think sort of re-emerged in the tea party movement. so i think maybe these movements just have a short-term life. >> let's go to galveston, texas. joe is watching. >> yes, hello. >> yes, sir. >> well, you know, first of all, i would like to really, really and then people call in and say, you're on one side or you're on the other. but by and large, you're probably the most unbiased media available. and the greatest asset to being able to understand what's going on in our political situation that we have. and i really appreciate the way

-- so many people on from both sides. and i think it's a wonderful, wonderful thing to watch. and ask all these questions. >> thanks for your kind words. do you have a comment about mr. perot? >> i do. first of all, i'm from texas. so we got really, really involved when ross perot was running. and he said so many things that made so much sense. and a lot of people got behind him. and first of all, i don't think that the balanceed budget would have happened had not ross perot been up there, having all those charts and graphs to educate people. and i would like to hear david brinkley's comment on that. and one more comment. and that would be that when they talk about teddy roosevelt, teddy roosevelt was the one that broke up standard oil in new jersey. and i can't imagine ross perot ever being someone that would condone breaking up a large corporation. teddy roosevelt was in a league of his hone but i would like to hear david's comment.

>> it's doug brinkley who is our guest tonight and probably happens to you pretty frequently. >> it does. >> teddy roosevelt seems to have struck a chord. >> president obama talked about the new nationalism. and a couple of things i would like to mention. i'm reflecting on what we've been talking about here. one of the big things to keep in mind with ross perot in 1992 is that you had the soviet union collapse. the cold war ended in 1991. when perot is entering in 1992. the question, there was a lot of jubilation with that. we've been fighting the cold war from harry truman on down, taxpayers had built up this huge deficit to win the cold war. and the fact that perot was being this sort of irritant in the 1990's, worrying about our -- a deficit and everybody was running up deficits. all over the world. he seemed a little more erratic than anybody -- today, we hear these bites.

and he seems prescient on a lot of things. but he was a fly in the ointment of 1992-93 when america was looking -- the buzz word was globalization. and also, political correctness became a great term. well, he wasn't keen on globalization. he was about america first. and he was kind of a curmudgeon in many ways on a lot of issues. so i'm not sure we could have even done this sort of retrospect on mr. perot like we're doing tonight, maybe even a decade ago. it would have seemed a little more of a quirky, offbeat character. but there are those sides to him in his biography. points he raised are really -- resonate with people right now. and with theodore roosevelt, all -- the point about t.r. is only one. and that's about service to country. that's what t.r. was all about. you don't lie. you tell the truth. you stay loyal to your friends. and the service to the country.

and that's that -- it's in the american grain. it's americanism. and that's what spoke to ross perot. not every issue that t.r. took on all this, but it was the character of the man. >> in 1996 the economy was getting pretty row bust. the tech bubble was part of our economic fabric. bill clinton was the incumbent president seeking re-election. the republicans had nominated long-time senator from kansas and senate leader bob dole. and the big difference our guest said was during the fall campaign, ross perot was not permitted to take part in the debates. on the screen right now are the results on election night. 1996 with president clinton achieving 49% of the votes. 379 electoral college votes. bob dole, 169 -- excuse me, 159 electoral college votes so just 40% of the vote. ross perot, zero. and different showing than his four years earlier.

just over 8% of the popular vote in 1996 elections. our next clip is ross perot on election night, 1996, talking about the future of the reform party. >> we're going to keep the issues. i think they've gotten the word on campaign finance reform. don't you? [cheers and applause] navy repented and been reborn -- they've repented and been reborn and they will go to heaven and it's done. but that's got to stop. we have got to get that done. and we have got to get campaign reform in terms of the time for campaign and all that done. we must set the highest ethical and moral standards for the people who serve in our government. and all that has got to be changed from rules to laws in the next four years. and we're going to have to stand at the gate and keep the

pressure on. and we will. [cheers] we will not let our children and grandchildren pay an 82% tax rate which he our government forecast they will. we have got to have a balanced budget amendment. we've got to have the plan to balance the budget. and all the things that you have fought so hard and so long for. and we've got to stand at the gate to make sure that happens. if we want to pass on a better, stronger country to our children. we will make the 21st century the best in our country's history. but you and i have to stay on watch. we have to keep the pressure on. and as i've said a thousand times to both parties, when they say what does it take to make all of you people go away? and that is do all of this, and then we don't have anything to talk about, right? it's done. thank you.

you've worked night and day. you've done a tremendous job. take a little break. and then we'll climb back in the ring and keep the pressure on to see that everybody keeps those promises, right? [cheers] >> ross perot on election night in 1996. doug brinkley, he talked about the need for the people to keep the pressure on. but without a galvanizing figure, you often pointed out to us the truth is our national debt is three times what it was when ross perot was talking about it in 1992. what happened to the spirit and the energy of the people in that middle who were the perotites or reform party members? >> they're out there. i think they're called swing voters right now. i think many of them are independents. we have a lot of people that are independent. and many people that don't really want to be associated with the democratic orand perot's legacy speaks to that. at the outset of the program, you mentioned occupation wall street. people protesting on the left

and tea party on the right. and it's about grassroots people getting engaged, getting involved. making themselves heard. so it's just not a group of money people kind of running our democracy. there's a spirit to ross perot. i've never been convinced he was dead serious about winning the white house in 1992 or 1996. i feel what he was trying to do which many of these contenders have tried to do, some of the ones that weren't -- just to stir things up. to get people to talk about issues. and he succeeded in that regard. you didn't have to win the white house to make a difference. it's about getting into the arena. and he took -- got beat up some. but he picked himself back up. and today, he's probably the first citizen of dallas with his business interests. and he created -- just recently, sold dell, not recently, a few years back, for a fortune. some of his business

innovations. and if you can't be in dallas without being touched by his philanthropy. and you can't be a veteran of american wars and not have a debt to ross perot, too. so he's made a difference. and that's why he was sent the walking stick of bin laden or the navy seals. >> robert, you're on. good evening. >> yes. thank you for c-span. i remember the 1992 election well. and ross perot, he was a viable candidate. he was prescient on the deficit. he seemed to speak common sense. he was a patriot. he went to the nflpa academy -- to the naval academy. but he was unelectable because he was mercurial and started a if company, e.d.s. that benefited from government contracts. he selected james stockdale for his vice president. and that debate was a gunfight and his candidate was not prepared for that.

he dropped out. race, claiming dirty tricks by the republicans and re-entered the race. he had previously opposed mya lindh for the vietnam war memorial and did it in a relatively nasty way. you say he wasn't a candidate who wasn't trying to win but i don't think he could have won. what do you think? >> i agree with that. i'm not sure it was possible to win. in 1992 or 1996 against bill clinton and the democrats and an incumbent president who had just won the gulf war and saw the breakup of the soviet union, german reunification and many other policy issues. so he was as i've said a few times now, somebody trying to raise consciousness level on issues that he thought were important for the country. and the reason he's important to history is some of those issues that he raised in 1992 are still with us today. and only in a more -- more of a

fashion than 1992. look at things william jennings bryan said that happened in the new deal or something that charles evan hughes that reflects on the eisenhower era. perot raised some issues we are still grappling with and always a reminder that we have a third party option. that maybe sometime that if these other parties get too arrogant, there will be some voice from the heartland or of america that comes up and strikes a different chord. and i worry that the debates make it very hard for a third party candidate to get into the mix. so perot in that regard may be one of the last to have been able to pull that -- something like that off. >> carolyn barta mentioned ross perot in the summer of 1992 had hired ed rollins and hamilton jordan to be involved in his campaign. after the 1992 election, ed rollins who continued to -- in his political work, and is still active today, talks a bit

about his view of the perot candidacy. we have a clip of that right now. >> the bottom line, it wasn't that perot was difficult to deal with. it was that perot never wanted to run that kind of a campaign. he always wanted to do what he did, run the last 30 days. and i think the -- that's all he thought he had to do. why should i waste all my money early when it really doesn't matter until the end? he never understood getting defined in a negative way during the summer. obviously the guy has a lot of paranoia. they always say about paranoia you only have to be right once to make it all worthwhile. [laughter] but the bottom line is it just -- he dent understand the political system. -- didn't understand the political system. had a disdain for it. that made it more and more difficult. when we were trying to argue what you had to do to -- deal with the media and lay out your issues and define yourself, he saw that as traditional politics and he was against

traditional politics. well, in the end, he ran a very short-lived traditional campaign in which he ended up getting very negative in the end. and won 19% of the vote. if he would have run a real campaign, there was a very serious chance of this man being a very viable candidate for president. drawing an awful lot of support from both george bush and bill clinton. >> carolyn barta, you hear ed rollins' analysis after the fact. anything there that you agree or disagree with in his summation? >> well, yeah. i think that at one point, perot was a very viable candidate. but i think that he was as the caller said before, he was quirky. he was mercurial. and as people got to know more

about him, that they were -- they questioned whether or not he was temperamently suited to be in the white house. and i'm not sure even that perot thought that he was suited to be in the white house. and perhaps the sentiment that's been expressed that he didn't really want to be president, he wanted to stir up the american people, he wanted to be the nation's civics teacher. he wanted to make democracy work again for the people. so i think that he resisted traditional politics in many ways. and for good reason. he thought that the way that political campaigns are run today are really silly. i mean, flying around from place to place trying to get a sound bite on network tv. a plane of press following you around.

essentially in a bubble. listening to the same speech over and over again. what are they going to learn? he thought that the press should be out talking to the people. what are their concerns of the people? and then how are the candidates addressing those concerns? so i think rollins wanted to run a traditional campaign. perot didn't want to run a traditional campaign and for a good reason in his mind. he thought traditional campaigns are out of date and are not working for the american people. and i must say, i think that we've seen in election campaigns since then, that the media has just grown more and more powerful and dominant. in some of the campaigns. >> doug, as care len is talking, i was just -- carolyn is talking, i was just thinking about perotisms and his catch phrases in the age of twitter. >> gosh, yes. that's true.

he would have probably been able to use twitter quite well. get words out there, ideas out there to the people. and we've talked about tonight, is innovating in the format or going on larry king, larry king was free media. and many politicians use that but buying these -- and keep in mind, he's -- it's hard to create another ross perot. he's just a maverick. he's an iconoclastic candidate and a billionaire and had the money to do what he did. and he would have enjoyed being president and would have served the people well but i don't think his heart was in it in 1992 or 1996. it was really about getting the democracy and the people back -- he -- his core, he disdains lobbyists. and washington is a town filled with lobbyists.

>> ross perot not only took advantage of paid media, but benefited from the popular culture coverage of his campaign. next is a series of clips from "saturday night live" whose regular program on saturday nights took great advantage. ross perot candidacy in 1992. let's take a look. >> and because we at abc feel it is important for you to hear his views, and ross perot is with us from houston. mr. perot, do you feel that you have been blackballed by the two major political parties? >> it's like this. the other two candidates, they are not addressing the issues. >> thank you, mr. perot. >> my reform party is going to have a convention and volunteers want me, that's fine. but see, larry, this is not about me. it's about the american people plain and simple. >> ross, what about this commercial that aired last week? >> vote for me. i'm ross perot. i'm running for president. vote for me, please. would you vote for me? please, please, please, vote for me.

[applause] >> this whole thing fascinates me, really. see, you don't have to be a ph.d. at harvard to know that our kids are going to to inherit a $4 trillion deficit. and that's just a crime, see. now, if i'm president, we start cleaning up this mess on day one. it's going to take some sacrifice, no doubt about it. but i know the american people are ready and prepared, this is your country, let's take it back. >> a clip from saturday night live in 1992 and 1996 and all but the first was dana carvey portraying ross perot. we have about 10 minutes left

in our contenders discussion of ross perot and his 1992 and 1996 bids for the white house. let's take our next phone call for our two guests. from pleasantville, new york. tony, you're on the air. >> hi. good evening, susan, how are you? >> great, thanks. >> when ross perot in the spring of 1992, when ross perot was at about 32%, they had -- there were three books written about ross perot before most people even knew him. one was you mentioned wings of eagles. there was an autobiography by a dallas news reporter called ross perot and the best of the three at the time was doron leven's book irreconcilable differences, ross perot versus general motors. in may as i said, in may, after he had announced when he was at 32%, i watched sam donaldson on "this week with david brinkley" make a statement about ross perot, the conversation around the roundtable was basically this guy is at 32%.

do you think he can win? and donaldson made a statement something to the effect of what do we know about this guy? he came out of nowhere. now, at that time, the three books were in print already. donaldson noted for being a big mouth covering the white house, making probably $500,000 a year to make a statement like that about ross perot, had not even read the books, probably, to make a statement. mr. brinkley, what do you think about and ms. barta, what do you think about abc news allowing sam donaldson to make a statement like that and not following it up? >> well, there's also -- i believe ken gross on perot, if anybody watching wants to read a real fine book, he was a new york journalist and it's an excellent book on perot. i don't know the moment you're talking about. sam donaldson i thought was a great and exciting commentator. certainly during the reagan years, he was always sticking the questions to president reagan. and they ended up becoming

great friends. he's really a journalistic legend, sam donaldson. so i wouldn't want to say anything negative about him and i can't see the context of what you're talking about. but the spirit of it is i understand, and you're making a good point. sometimes the washington media people think that nobody is accomplished at their -- if they're not part of a kind of new york-washington-boston axis. and here's ross perot, a legend at that time, and in texas, which everybody in texas knew quite a bit about. because he had worked on education reform and most well- known person in the state of texas. so it just seems to be donaldson -- the spirit of it is what you're saying. just screwed up. >> carry lynn barta, from 19 -- carolyn barta, from 1996 after he lost the second time how involved was ross perot? did he exit from the national stage or did he stay involved?

>> pretty much exited, i think. he was not -- not particularly involved in issues or in the reform party after that. i think -- 1992 was really the unique time. because of the -- the sense of alienation that people had with government. the dissatisfaction with government. the economic problems. and then 1996, as you said earlier, when things started to come back, the political climate didn't exist anymore. and he did not -- he wanted the people to stay active. and involved. but the climate didn't exist for the kind of perot phenomenon to happen again as it did in 1992. and i think that was sort of his swan song. he got out after that. >> sacramento, hello, to jason as we talk about ross perot. you're on.

>> yeah. i just want to ask, how do you feel perot would do in the 2013 election currently if he was on the same wavelength that he was on in 1992? and another question, if you don't mind, was i believe it was -- we said 19% of the vote in 1992 or something. >> that's right. >> i recall it being in the millions. i forget the number. but i know it wasn't too far behind for a third party. it was a -- there you go. my question is how is it possible that he didn't win one electoral vote? i know it's how electoral process works. but i find it just amazing that not one vote, not one state, he had the majority in, not even a small state. just amazing to me with the numbers that he has. just very shocking and shocking in 1992 when i voted for him and it was shocking to look at the numbers again now. >> jason, your first question about how he would do in the

2012 election, mr. perot is in his early 80's. are you seriously interested in bringing him back into the process at this point? >> thank you. of course not now. but if it were 20 years later when he actually was -- if he was the same as 1992. how would he do now? >> if can you take ross perot of that period and drop him into our current time frame, how would he do? >> he came in second in 1992 in utah and maine. did not win a state. and it just tells you that is where his support was. this was -- very hard for a third party candidate to track against a democratic party and the apparatus and when you have -- at any given time, half of congress and half of the senate on your side and analysts there were really ultimately a two- party system. once in a while, a third party movement comes in there and it's a slap in the face to the other two parties. the seminal question which we can't answer that historians can debate but we'll never have a definitive answer is who did perot help and hurt in 1992?

if he had not run, could george herbert walker bush beat bill clinton? did he actually serve as a spoiler for president bush? or as some people suggest his support came from liberals and conservatives and it was a wash. in a way, that 19% wasn't that relevant. because he drew -- he was so center oriented in many ways. radically center if you like but took from both right and left. and we can't really clearly answer that question. but most people would say he hurt george herbert walker bush. that he was more conservative perot, he came from texas and that challenge hurt bush a lot. because he was the incumbent. so bill clinton was helped by perot in 1992. >> some analysis of the numbers of supporters suggest that 70% of the perot voters had voted for george bush in 1998.

>> 1988. 1988. excuse me. we have a couple of minutes left. to the second caller, the caller's second question. i want to pay a clip and this is our last one of the evening. this is one from ross perot's infomercials that he purchased before the 1992 election. and the 30-minute commercial in october, the first one he did, october of 1992, and he looks ahead from 1992 to the year 2020. let's listen. >> let's look at the growth of federal spending and see if there's a trend here. go on to 1950, there's obviously a trend here. we've gone up to 25% of our gross national product. that's excessive. and hold on to your hat. if you and i don't aaction now as owners of this country, the forecast shows that by the year 2020, federal spending will be 41% of the gross national product. we can't take 25%. we certainly can't take 41%. it's like having willie sutton

in charge of the bank, folks. he was a famous bank robber and i asked him, why do you rob where the money is. well, our bank is being looted big time and we'll get down to how in a little bit. >> ross perot in his 1992 campaign. we have 30 seconds, doug brinkley, what was the ross perot candidacy all about? >> when i saw that pie chart, remember, preinternet even. preemailing. when clinton became president in 1993 nobody used email by the time he left office three billion emails going around the world and an antiquated moment. ross perot made a difference and reminded people of old fashioned american values and reinvigorated the notion that a third party candidate can get into the mix. rausm nader made a difference -- ralph nader made a difference in 2000. he's a legend in the third party movement and just i think a person who is part of the contenders. >> carolyn barta, last 30 seconds, did ross perot make a difference?

>> oh, absolutely. i think he was a wake-up call. he put issues on the agenda. and the deficit ended up being a surplus. the budget was balanced during the clinton years. so now maybe that tea party people think that we need another wake-up call. yes, he definitely had an impact. >> as we close out the series, two special thank you's to the producer of this series and a guiding light. and to richard norton smith who has been our consultant in this project and really the brainchild behind it when we first got started thank you both for all your hard work. we close our last program with the look at his theme song, election night, 1992, as he is reading his supporters.

>> having just said that, you have to play our campaign theme song, crazy. ok? here we go. crazy. ♪ crazy for feeling so lonely crazy crazy for feeling so blue i knew you'd love me as long as you wanted crazy >> for information on our

series, go to a website at c- span.org. you'll find a schedule of the series, biographies of all the candidates, historians appraisals, in speeches all at c-span.org/thecontenders. our coverage leading up to the iowa caucuses continues tomorrow on "washington journal." we will look at the role of christian conservatives with steve scheffler. after that, a breakdown of the gop field with simon conway. later, a look at the final des moines register iowa poll ahead of tuesday's caucuses with pollster j. ann selzer. that is live tomorrow on c-span. >> our road to the white house

coverage continues to mark with republican presidential candidate mitt romney in atlantic, iowa. he is talking about jobs in the economy. watch live coverage at 3:30 p.m. eastern here on c-span. >> in the last of caucuses in 2008, barack obama won the democratic caucuses and went on to win the presidency. mike huckabee won the republican caucuses, but dropped out of the raese two months later. look at what a caucus looks like online with the c-span video library. now through tuesday, are c-span cameras are following the 2012 republican candidates at events throughout the state. every morning live from iowa, political castor taking your calls on "washington journal." tuesday night, live coverage is of caucuses on c-span in c-span

to. later on, the results of all the nearly 18 caucuses, plus candidates' speeches. for more resources and the presidential race, use our campaign 2012 website to watch videos of the candidates on the campaign trail. see what they have said on issues importune and read the latest from candidates, political reporters, and people like you from social media size at c-span.org/campaign2012. >> with the pd is not just interested in the truth. -- wikipedia is not just into an and the truth but verifiable sources. >> william beutler explains the ins and outs of the on-line encyclopedia. >> it goes through editorial layers and you can use that phrase, that a lot of people laugh at when you have a larger companies that have stories or newspapers have done a bad job. but on the overall, you will

more likely trust something from the washington post and the new york times and from something you found on a blog. in order for a blogger to be proved right, a they usually need an additional gatekeeper of a media source. >> william beutler on his role as editor and consultant and blogger for the online encyclopedia wikipedia. >> c-span will continue to show you the latest gop presidential candidate events leading up to the january 3 iowa caucuses. there is a look at rick perry and his wife, anita. they stop in fort dodge, iowa at bloomers cafe. he is virtually tied at third place with rick santorum and former house speaker newt gingrich. this is about 45 minutes.

this runs about 45 minutes. let me sign that. >> thank you. i think we can support rick perry to not have any california bailouts in the future. >> i appreciate you being out here. [unintelligible] [applause]

[indistinct conversations]

[indistinct conversations]

>> well, everybody. i appreciate you tang the time to come out. we really want you to come and the caucus for governor rick perry on the third. i also want to give a shout out to ann over there. rit now it is my distinct pleasure to introduce a very special woman. i met her in a couple of months ago. i can tell you that you can judge a man by the company he keeps. there is no final emple than the first lady of texas -- anita perry. she is a professional nurse and has been so for 17 years. she is just about the best asset that the governor has. i handed over to the first lady of texas, i need that. . >> thank you. --anita perry.

>> thank you. it is great to be in fort dodge, iowa. thank you for joining us today. we are so excited to be here today. we will finish strong today. i want to tell you a little about a man i have known since i was 18 -- eight years old. we have been married for 29 years. i have our children with us today. i will say there is not a lot about rick perry that i do not know. it is new year's eve. my resolution as i will do everything i can to help get a true leader, a conservative leader is elected to the presidency of the united states. [applause] he volunered for the air force after he graduated from texas and them. i am so proud of that.

am concerned about our countr i am concerned about our children. we need to get america back working again. i think he is the band can do that. ladies and gentlemen, my husband, rick perry. [appuse] >> thank you very much. ruth, thank you. you. bob have been awesome. they have been absolutely wonderful to work with. these last few days we have been crisscrossing iowa and going to some absolutely fabulous towns. little restaurants and some of the coolest names. i told somebodthate were at the "fainting goat" yesterday and we were at "doughy joe's" and i thinkw e will hit the

"giggling goat" next time. it made a lot of sense. there is a connection there. anyway, i want to say thank you to my children for being here sydney, the baby and a griffin, the senior and his beautiful wife, meredith. griffin has been a great hand out on the trail for us and giving lots of speeches and talking about his dad and somedy he has known for a long time. the beliefs and values that we have. i want to ask all of you to join us on tuesday at the caucus and the caucus for us. at what is a particurly thank you for coming out today on new year's eve as we get 2011 finished up and go into 2012. i want to share something with you that i have always believed. campaigns for president are not

just about the candidates. is really about the people of this country. it is about the values that we have and we share that we have been taught. the fact of the matter is, the vote is not really about me. this is about our children and the future of this country. it is about a statement of your values. who you are going to choose is a reflection of your values. i have always would be honored have your vote as a statement of that and of your values. you see them reflected in me the values that are important for you, your family, and this country and together we are going to build a movement to take this country back to get washington out of our hair as much as we can because washington is taxing too much, they are regulating too much, that is spending too much. this campaign is about restoring help for the next generation by

changing that spending culture in washington, d.c. and ending the stifling debt, 16 + trillion dollars that is on the backs of the next generation. it is making washington realize that it is weak, the people, who are in charge in this country people --we, the people, who are in charge in this country. we do not want to import any more european values into this country. it is america, the people. we are not the subjects of the government. the government is subject to the people. [applause] this question. why should you settle for anything less than an authentic conservative who will share your values and your vision and do it

without apology and washington, d.c.? i hope that is the question that you asked. i have the greatest respect in the world for my opponents, the men and women who are on the stage with me. those who are asking for your support. i respect greatly. you have to ask yoursf, if we replace it democratic insider with a republican insider, to use in washington, d.c. will change any taxable not. i am here to say you have a choice. i in the limited government conservative that will give washington a complete overhaul. walk into washington, d.c. and truly get it an overhaul. there are other campaigns for the campgns are conservative, but the records do not always square with the rhetoric. senator rickantorum is a good man. he has a good family. i respect him, but we do have

differences. i think it is appropriate that we talk about those difrences. one difference is spending. i think the spending going on in washington, d.c. is probably at the top of a lot of people's lives of important issues. we cannot do that with a senator who has voted to raise the debt ceiling eight different times allowing our debt to grow from 4.1 trillion dollars to nine trillion dollars on his watch. that is so much debt that it even exceed what president obama has done in the white house. what is so important -- i have to ask rick perry what is so important that compelled you to add more debt to our cldren's charge card. was it the bridge to know where you voted for? was it the iowa reinforced the voted for?

was as support for the greatest entitlement programs since lyndon johnson's great society? now wreckage is defending those earmarks on the principle of federalism. -- now rick is defending those your marks on the principle of federalism. it is about fleecing the american public. i raise these issues because in the end, elections cannot to differences. you do not have to settle for somebody who is going to change -- somebody who is not going to change washington's culture. you do not have to tie your hopes to washington insiders. you can choose among the various folks who are on the ticket with me. i have 63 years of congressional time and the totality. they are the ones that have been driving this debt and your marks.

you have a choice. you can pick a governor who signed a six balanced budgets over the course of my time who has worked with the private sector to create over 1 million jobs in my home state. i happen to believe the federal government should do a few things and do those few things. well and get out of the way and leave you alone. we have to end the year marks, pass a budget balanced amendment. this massive debt cannot continue to go on. those who got us into this massive debtre not going to be individuals who get us out of it. i am asking for your vote because of your conservative values. i am asking for your vote because it reflects my values that i learned growing up on a small farm in the middle of nowhere. on that farm i leaed the value of hard work, family, faith it that government does not exist to provide benefits but is there to protect the freedoms

and safeguard our rights. itas an honor to follow in my father's footprints to be in the united states air force. my conservatism spans the spectrum from a fiscal issues to national security to social responsibility. some talk a good game. i have an adult -- i have protected unborn children by signing a budget that defunded it pnned parenthood and shut down 12 of their clinics in the state of texas spirit i passed a defense of marriage act in the state of texas. [applause] some candidates campaigned on bills that never even made it to the president's desk. i am campaigning on ideas that i have signed into law. i will be the outside establishment outsider that goes to washington, d.c. with a sense of purpose. that is to make washington inconsequential in your life as i can make it.

the key is to create a part-time congress that stop spending our children's inheritance, cut their pay, cut the time they spend in washington, d.c., send them home to get a regular job like everyone else has and allow them to live under the laws that they passed in washington, d.c.. that is our mission. i hope you will join us in that mission. your country is calling in your children are waiting for you to answer that call. when the lord said the profit isiah said, who should i send it? who will go for us? isaiah said, here am i. send me. this is your country. taking her back as your cling. i will ask you to join me in echoing the words of the profit isiah. i asked you to brave the weather this tuesday whether it is blue

skies and sunny or whether there is a snowstorm going on. braved the weather. go to the caucus. caucus for us. i will make is packed with you. if you will go to the caucuses on tuesday and have my back, i will have your back for the next four years and washington, d.c. god bless you and thank you for being with us. we will answer a few questions. yosit there. what's you alluded to your defense of thenborn by defunding planned parenthood. wordy you stand on rape and --? "i signed a parent cut pledge in december. --parenthood pledge in december.

i actually met a woman who gave me a real new sense. i had exceptions for rape and and the life of the mother. this was a lady who had -- she was conceived because of rape through that act. the perception she shared with me was aonderful thing. she asked me as she looked me in the eye and said, is my life not woh saving? at that particular point in time, she really had an impact on me. those two exceptions, if you are truly going to be standing up for life, having only the exception for the life of the mother is appropriate. i have not only signed that

pledge, but i m very comfortable that i made the right decision from the standpoint of modifying and strengthening my pro-life position. i am one of the most pro-life governors in the country. we signed parental notification and a consent. we passed a lot this last session of the legislature that requires an individual who is gettinan abortion to see a sonogram first so that they can see that young to human being inside of them. i am very proud to stand up with our founding fathers as i look at life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as things that americans and a america is supposed to be about. when we talk about life, we are talking about all innocent life. [applause]

>> while still sitting governor of texas, will you push for -- >> i don't plan being the sitting goveor for much longer. but we will speak up on the issue regardless of where we are. let me share that with you. >> i do not need to put you on the spot. >> that sounds like a set up. >> are you familiar with a man named jacob howard? >> i do not believe i am. you want to familiarize me with him. but he wrote the 14th amendment. i was wondering if you could tell me a little something about the 14th amendment. i'd like to read the first clause if i may. all persons born or naturalized in the united states are subject to the jurisdictions there of.

our citizenof the united states. >> the 14th amendment was my understanding of what it was written and why it was written was dealing with the issue of citizenship for individuals who had been slaves. wring a wrong in our country's history is really what the 14t amendment is about. this issue of should we be educating individuals who come into this country illegally is a symptom of a bigger problem that we have got. it that happens to be that the federal government has been an abject failure at securing our borders for years and years. as the governor of the state of

texas for 11 years, i had to deal with this directly. there is not anybody on that stage with me that has had to deal with this issue. they talk about how they would do x or they would do why, i have had to deal with it. i have had to ask our legislature for $400 million to send to the border of texas and mexico. have teams sent to the border to fight the crime whether it is drug traffic or trafficking and weapons or whether the end -- illegal individuals trying to come into the country. securing our border is the issue that will address all of these whether it is the education of individuals who are here legally or whether it is heah care that is here illegally.

>> [unintelligible] it is my understanding that the constitution of the united states was designed d written for its citizens. it does not seem to me that it is working out like that. >> you're absolutely correct. we have been put in a situation whether it is arizona having to pass a law to dl with immigration or whether it is what we have had to do in the state of texas dealing with individuals who are not citizens but the federal government requires us. here is one thing i will tell you, as the president of the united states you will never see me directing my justice department to go to another state and see them on an issue that is their sovereign right.

[applause] >> i have an economic question. the last kennedy was here, i ask the same question. i did not like his answer. ifou answer it right, i will vote for you. >> that is why we show up. that is what this is all about. >> would you be in for of at obama did with the quantitative easing one and two. it was said obama next year will put out another two trillion dollars into the economy. are you in favor of that? >> know. let me tell you why. all you are doing with this quantitative easing which actually is my understanding that was put into place as an experiment in japan initially. i will suggest to you it has been a monumental failure. it is a monumental failure

because quantitative easing is just the printing of more money. supply and demand is pretty simple. i am an animal science major. i know if you print more money, that makes the dollar in your pocket or flats. let me just ask the crowd, are you better off today than you were 4 trillion dollars ago? >> the first to end 1/2 years old, has been in office, when he has been there, we have lost 48% of the valley of the dollar. that is hurting retired people. right now i can tell you one year ago they said 70% of the people are living paycheck to paycheck, i can tell you for sure it was 80% here. people are hurting. every time they do that, it really hurts us. >> yes, sir.

frankly, we need to get the federal reserve back to a single purpose and that is to control the prices and inflation. >> you do address art second amendment rights. the fact it is not just for hunters. >> the second amendment -- her qution was twofold. what i addressed the second amendment and then how this fast and furious effort -- there has been some individuals who have questioned whether or not this entire operation was more about painting a bad picture of those of us who have ned guns and particularly gun store operators that it was about tracking these weapons. either way, i would consider it to be very bad public policy

for the administration to be involved with it. for the attorney general to not have known about this. if he did know about it, then he has misrepresented himself to the united states congress. either way, he ought to be fired. the attorney general knowing and not movement of those types of weapons into mexico is an absolute failure of leadership in my opinion. the second amendme is about gun ownership. it is not about having the a militia. it is about the private citizens having the right to protect themselves and their property in this country. may it always be that way. [applae]

>> during the first two years of the obama administration, most of the current candidates were on the sidelines instead of providing leadership waiting for the starting gun to go off so they can tell us what great leaders they are. there are a few exceptions to that including sarah palin and you governor rick perry. i appreciate that. if you are elected, will you commit to being a leader full time, 24/7, instead of just what is convenient and low risk? >> yes, sir. i cannot wait to get into the fray. i cannot wait to get there to ask men and women who share my philosophy that are truly patriots who will come in and

head up agencies headthe epa he will go back and pull every regulation that has come in in the last five years since 2008 and audit them so whether or not they create jobs or kill jobs. have men and women in t health and human services agency that are committed to the 10th amendment. we talk about block granting back to the states and letting the states make the disions on programs like medicaid, i intended to have an individual as the secretary of education whose sole responsibility will be to dismantl the department of education and what about parents and those functions back to the state so that the members of the legislature and iowa can decide best how to educate your children there are a number of those types of agencies that need to be dismantled.

indeed to allow the states to get back to it. >> i am interested in what it was like when you were born and raised in small-town texas. what did you do? >> not a lot. actually, there was a lot. i am pulling your leg. people think just because you live 16 miles from the clost place that had a post office, it was a dreary and not exciting existence. if i were given the opportunity to live anywhere in the world, i would still a pig that little community where i grew up. the world revolved round school, there were 110 kids' grades k through 12. a 4h member.

every day was busy. every day was myself and lots of acres of dry land cotton farm to explore and what have you. i would suggest it was not a lot different than growing up in the mid 1950's and iowa. -- mid 1950's in iowa. the president of the school board was also super trip -- superintendent of -- he was the basketball and football coach and it drove th school bus. people would say, the house i grew up and did not have running

water until 1955 or 1956. -- indoor plumbing, let me put it that way. there maybe some people who say we grew up poor and without -- we did not have a lot of material things. we were rich in family, we were rich and face. we were rich in experience is. we were rich in community. i will forever be grateful that i had the opportunity to grow up in that community. my mom and dad still live there. they live in the same house that we have been in since 1967. you are the last question for sure. that one was too easy. >> we would have a government that would crafted this behind

closed doo, health ce. when you are president -- my desire is to see you or others like you go in and review all this and actually have meaningful input from all of the various groups, health care providers like myself and people who are consumers so that we can get something that will actually work for both government and for the consumers themselves. >> i agree with you, but you have to take obamacare off of the book's first. [applause] i am let my wife expand on that a little bit because she is a nurse. >> i would like to know what

your addition as first lady would be? >> we have so much work to get their that i am not measuring the drapes. it would truly be an honor and pleasure for me to be in that role. my background is health care. i have a master's degree in nursing. in texas i have done topics and issues that are related to health care. i am also very concerned about our veterans and returning veterans when one out of every four veterans cannot get a job when they return from defending our freedom. when one out of every six veterans is homeless, i am most ncerned about that as well. iave a variety of issues i am interested in. i would relish the opportunity to do that. thank you. [applause] >> thank you for coming out. you have our backs next tuesday and we will have your backs the

next four years in washington, d.c. god bless you. [indistinct conversations] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [indistinct conversations]>> thd

get. thank you for coming. >> thank you for sharing a part of that.

>> there we go. >> ok. >> thanks for being here. >> welcome to iowa. hope to see you again.

>> good to be here. hi, sweetie. how are you? >> hi. >> i am having a little chicken salad with a croissant. you all have fun. >> they did. >> you get in here. >> hi. how are you? >> thank you for coming. >> we look forward to it. >> of this is third generation. >> i love your hair.

>> family now. >> get behind him. >> steven? >> what? >> the whole family. come on. get in here. this is our family. [laughter] >> family? >> ok, guys. >> all right. >> right here. >> that is awesome. >> yes, we do. they are the best. >> god bless you.

>> that is a young iowan. his name is john. great kid. yes, sir. honor to be here. >> you want me to get on my knees? >> you know, i could go either way. i cld go either way. probably -- we pay more attention to the cowboys now. >> thank you for coming.

>> hi. >> bless your heart. thank you. you have lost weight, too. >> i have. >> i have to stand on a chair so us short people can see. >> push that button. >> here we go. >> thanks. thanks very much.

>> right here. i got you. >> one more for good measure here. >>hank you very much. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. i'm going to go. you wait. i'm goingn to go out -- going to go out. >> i am not sure you can get through. >> thank you very much. >> we have got to change. >> all right.

>> back up. back up. we're headed out. god bless you, sir. in 2002 i took the kids out and we hiked it. >> did you hide it? >> the silver american airlines at the top. >> come back. >> thank you for your prayers. >> thank you. >> i am going to go.

>> you go ahead. same direction. >> thank you very much. >> i got to change. all right. >> back up against that way. back up. >> ok. come on, guys. >> keep your position with that. >> step over here. >> careful.

>> come back. >> got to get there in the winter. >> yes, sir. thank you. >> bless you. >> thank you. >> come on. get in here. get in here. >> canada. >> you broke it.

>> here you go. >> okay, big boy. that come out all right? yes, sir. take care of yourself. >> oh. it's ok.

[door opening] ♪ >> thank you. >> what are you doing here? >> everybody is excited.

>> i don't want a candidate with an awful lot of baggage. >> i happen to believe mitt has some pretty wonderful ideas. good. thank you. wonderful. >> can i take your picture while i have you here? >> 1, 2, 3. >> thank you. >> that was a good one. >> i appreciate that.

>> all right. hi, sweetie. on christmas vacation? how are you? >> thank you. >> nice to have you here. thanks for coming. >> you are a really brave woman. >> thank you so much. >> thanks for coming. >> thank you. >> good afternoon. >> thank you. how are you?

>> that is great. >> we are working on one today. >> that is fine. sorry about that. thank you. >> thank you, all. i am surprised -- you should all be out getting ready for new year's. i will tell you one of my resolutions. it is to be more grateful and to express more of my gratitude. i will express that gratitude right now. i am grateful to this country we live in. i'm grateful for the freedoms we enjoy. i am grateful for my ancestors

that made sacrifices so i could live in this great country. we talked about this amazing country. sometimes we forget the people who made sacrifices so we could be here. i am grateful for my grandfather. at age 8, he started working in the coal mines. he would go to work in the yard and he would come home at night at dark. his job when he was a little boy was to open the door for the mules. he recognized he did not want that kind of a future with his children. the maxim i grew up with all the time, because my father heard this frequently from his own father, was, study hard, or it

is the pick and shovel for you. i heard that when i was growing up. i did not believe those are my choices. those were my father's choices. i am grateful for my grandfather. he came here and gave his children and grandchildren a .etter opportunity in life, bi i think about that and i think about how amazing this country has been that a coal miner's granddaughter is standing here today, and who is married to someone who might be the next president of the united states. this is an amazing country. i would also like to remind people that there are lots of different lenses you can see through. the lens that so many people see

this through is on his professional accomplishments. we are all familiar with that. he has been successful in business. he was a wonderful guy at the olympics. also, he was a great governor. so, i say there is another win. -- another lens you can see the man through. that is from his family and his wife. we have been married for 42 years. we were high-school sweetheart. we have five sons. i am the grandmother of 16 grandchildren. we have been blessed in life. in my early years of marriage, when i had those five, and i like to remind people, very naughty boys, i felt sorry for myself all the time when i would go to a house where there were girls in the home, young girls. they would be baking cookies, helping their mother, cleaning,

washing dishes. i thought, this does not happen in my house. the boys were rambunctious. mitt would call home on occasion. he was in consultation and was traveling. he did not like it, by the way. i did not come either. he heard a very exasperated wife. i said, these boys are just killing me. he would remind me that what i was doing was more important that -- and what he was doing. my job was more important than his job. i really appreciate that. he really meant it. he said, a job is temporary. the things you're doing and the things your building on will bring us forever happiness. the kids knew that. they knew how much mitt saw in me an equal partner with my husband. i will tell you that i had a great joy in knowing that my sons are behaving like their

father. i see them being wonderful husbands and fantastic parents. i am so grateful for my sons and how wonderful they are with their own children. mitt and i comment frequently that they are doing a better job than we did as parents. they are just fantastic. i am impressed with that. the other thing that i would like to have people see, a different lens, how he behaved in my darkest hour. i think some of you are familiar with the fact that i was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 1998. it was a very difficult time in my life. i had been fairly athletic, by the way. i loved to play tennis. i love to be active and to do things. i woke up -- over a number of weeks, i started thinking, what is wrong with me? something is really wrong with me. i took a nosedive. i could hardly walk.

i was the teeth. i had this horrible ms fatigue. i was not aware of what it was when i was going through it. it nearly crippled me. i could not get out of bed. i did not have energy to do anything. it was a frightening time in my life. when i finally got the diagnosis that i had multiple sclerosis, it was pretty devastating. i was, as you might imagine, a bit overwhelmed. overwhelmed come in way, with thinking that my life was over, that this was the way i was going to always be, and that i was feeling pretty sorry for myself. at that point, i really appreciated mitt. what he did was say, look, this is not fatal. we are going to be ok. i don't care that you can make dinner every night -- cannot

make dinner every night. i can eat peanut butter sandwiches and cold cereal for the rest of my life. as long as we are together, we can handle anything. that gave me the permission just to be sick for a while and to except the fact i had to learn how to deal with this. it was a great time in my life where i had a lot of self reflection, starting to think about what was most important in life. it was also a time when mitt started running the winter olympics. we moved to salt lake city. i was convinced we should do this. i left my family, i left my doctor, i left my youngest son, who was in his senior year in high school. off we went on a completely different path in life. when i left -- when we left to do the olympics, i was barely able to walk. i was very weak. mitt took the job of running the

olympics. over the three years that we lived there and working to try and turn around these things, my health started to get restored. they started to figure out medications to help me. i figured out exercise programs that could bring my strength back. it was very important. they brought me great joy and balance in my life. when it came time for the olympic torch to make its way across the country, mitt decided it would be about heroes. he wanted people to nominate heroes in their own lives. the torch had ran all across the country, thousands of miles. people were taking turns running the torch. they were all heroes in someone else's life. they were wonderful stories that came from this run. unbeknownst to me, mitt had nominated me as his hero to run the torch to salt lake city.

it was an amazing thing for me to recognize where i had started three years prior, how we guy was, how sick i was, to having strength and a little more resilience three years later. it was with great emotion that my children surrounded me, and my husband, with tears in his eyes, handed me the torch. i was able to have enough strength to run that fortune to salt lake city before the start of the winter games. that is the side of the man that i like to tell people. he has got such an ability to figure out what is important, what matters, and to really be there, and stick with you when you are in your worst moment. that has been with our marriage has been like. he has been a guy that has been wonderful, and loving, and i

love the fact that he values his children and his grandchildren as his most proud -- the things he can be most proud of our his children and grandchildren. he does not look at the things he has accomplished in his life. he looks at his most voluble treasure, his children. i appreciate that and love him very much. i look forward to him being the kind of guy that will have the strength to sit in that office, where difficult decisions will be made, and i will trust that you will have the kind of character and kind of strength to do the right thing, and to make the right decisions, and make the tough choices. because we never know what decisions are going to come across the president's desk. we trust a man and know that he as good judgment and good

values. that is an important characteristic. i am looking forward to this election. you guys all have an important job to do next tuesday. it is coming up very soon. we are energized. we are feeling the momentum. it is building here in iowa and in new hampshire and south carolina and florida. those are the next four states for us. we are excited to get going and to do what we really need to do, which is electing a president and make barack obama a one-term president. so, with your help -- [applause] thank you so much. [applause] i will make sure mitt hears that. i will tell him that. thank you.

thanks so much. ok. thanks. >> he was right. >> which one is your wife? thank you. theet's hope you get to caucuses on tuesday. ♪ thanks so much. hi, there. >> we drove out a long way. [inaudible] [laughter]

>> fantastic. thanks so much. good. thank you. sure. come on in. >> sure. >> thank you. >> good luck in the caucasus. >> thanks so much. -- caucuses. >> thanks so much.

>> you're welcome. >> hi, there. nice to meet you. >> wonderful to see you. >> good. >> we were across the street. good timing. >> this is such a great place. >> exactly. great day. >> where do you go from here? >> i meet up with mitt. he is such a great guy. >> he is.

>> we actually made a little secret surprise visit. >> i saw that interview. it was fantastic. >> we had a very lovely day. i met his children. we spent a few hours at their home. >> it was nice that you could be there. >> wonderful. >> he is a wonderful guy -- he is a dynamic guy. >> thanks so much. thank you very much. >> it will be wonderful. >> thank you.

>> thank you.

this runs about 45 minutes. >> let me sign that. >> thank you. i think we can support rick perry to not have any california

bailouts in the future. >> i appreciate you being out here. [unintelligible] [applause]

[indistinct conversations]

[indistinct conversations] >> well, everybody. i appreciate you taking the time to come out. we really want you to come and the caucus for governor rick perry on the third. i also wt to give a shout out

to ann over there. right now it is my distinct pleasure to introduce a very special woman. i met her in a couple of months ago. i can tell you that you can judge a man by the company he keeps. there is no final example than the first lady of texas -- anita perry. she is a professional nurse and has been so for 17 years. she is just about the best asset that the governor has. i handed over to the first lady of texas, i need that. . >> thank you. --anita perry. >> thank you. it is great to be in fort dodge, iowa. thank you for joini us today. we are so excited to be here today. we will finish strong today. i want to tell you a little

about a man i have known since i was 18 -- eight years old. we have been married for 29 years. i have our children with us today. i will say there is not a lot about rick perry that i do not know. it is new year's eve. my resolution as i will do everything i can to help get a true leader, a conservative leader is elected to the presidency of the united states. [applause] he volunteered for the air force after he graduated from texas anthem. i am so proud of that. i am concerned about our country. i am concerned about our children. we need to get america back working again. i think he is the band can do that. ladies and gentlemen, my husband, rick perry. [applause] >> thank you very much.

ruth, thank you. you. bob have been awese. they have been absolutely wonderful to work with. these last few days we have been crisscrossing iowa and going to some absolutely fabulous towns. little restaurants and some of the coolest names. i told somebody that we were at the "fainting goat" yesterday and we were at "doughy joe's" and i thinkw e will hit the "giggling goat" next time. it made aot of sense. there is a connection there. anyway, i want to say thank you to my children for being here sydney, the by and a griffin, the senior and his beautiful

wife, meredith. griffin has been a great hand out on the trail for us and giving lots of speeches and talking about his dad and somebody he has known for a long time. the beliefs and values that we have. i wa to ask all of you to join us on tuesday at the caucus and the caucus for us. at what is a particularly thank you for coming outoday on n year's eve as we get 2011 finished up and go into 2012. i want to share something with you that i have always believed. campaigns for president are not just about the candidates. is really about the people of this country. it is about the values that we have and we share that we have been taught. the fact of the matter is, the vote is not really about me. this is about our children and the future of this country. it is about a statement of your

values. who you are going to choose is a reflection of your values. i have always would be honored to have your vote as a statement of that and of your values. you see them reflected in me the values that are importa for you, your family, and this country and together we are going to build a movement to ta this country back to ge washington out of our hair as much as we can because washington is taxing too much, they are rulating too mu, that is spending too much. this campaign is about restoring help for the next generation by changing that spending culture in washington, d.c. and ending the stifling debt, 16 + trillion dollars that is on the backs of the next generation. it is making washington realize that it is weak, the people, who are in charge in this country people --we, the people, who are

in charge in this country. we do not want to import any more european values into this country. it is america, the people. we are not the subjects of the government. the government is subject to the people. [applause] this question. why should you settle for anything less than an authentic conservative who will share your values and your vision and do it without apology and washington, d.c.? i hope that is the question that you asked. i have the greatest respect in the world for my opponents, the men and women who are on the stage with me. those who are asking for your support. i respect greatly. you have to ask yourself, if we

replace it democratic insider with a republican insider, to use in washington, d.c. will change any taxable not. i am here to say you have a choice. i in the limited government conservative that will give washington a complete overhaul. walk into washington, d.c. an truly get it an overhaul. there are other campaigns for the campaigns are conservative, but the records do not always square with the rhetoric. senator rick santorum is a good man. he has a good family. i respect him, but we do have differences. i think it is appropriate that we talk about those differences. one difference is spending. i think the spending going on in washington, d.c. is probably at the top of a lot of people's lives of important issues. we cannot do that with a senator

who has voted to raise the debt ceiling eight different times allowing our debt to grow from 4.1 trillion dollars to nine trillion dollars on his watch. that is so much debt that it even exceed what president obama has done in the white house. what is so important -- i have to ask rick perry what is so important that compelled you to add more debt to our children's charge card. was it the bridge to know where you voted for? was it the iowa reinforced the voted for? was as support for the greatest entitlement programs since lyndon johnson's greasociety? now wreckage is defending those earmarks on the principle of federalism. -- now rick is defending those your marks on the principle of federalism.

it is about fleecing the american public. i raise these issues because in the end, elections cannot to differences. you do not have to settle for somebody who is going to change -- somebody who is not going to change washington's culture. you do not have to tie your hopes to washington insiders. you can choose among the various folks who are on the ticket with me. i have 63 years of congressional time and the totality. they are the ones that have been driving this debt and your marks. you have a choice. you can pick a governor who signed a six balanced budgets over the course of my time who has wked with the private sector to create over 1 million jobs in my home state. i happen to believe the federal government should do a few things and do those few things. well and get out of the way and

leave you alone. we have to end the year marks, pass a budget balanced amendment. this massive debt cannot continue to go on. those who got us into this maive debt are not going to be individuals who get us out of it. i am asking for your vote because of your conservative values. i am asking for your vote because it reflects my values that i learned growing up on a small farm in the middle of nowhere. on that farm i learned the value of hard work, family, faith. it that government does not exist to provide benefits but is there to protect the freedoms and safeguard our rights. it was an honor to follow in my father's footprints to be in the united states air force. my conservatism spans the spectrum from a fiscal issues to national security to social respsibility. some talk a good game.

i have an adult -- i have protected unborn children by signing a budget that defunded it planned parenthood and shut down 12 of their clinics in the state of texas spirit i passed a defense of marriage act in the state of texas. [applause] some candites campaigned on bills that never even made it to the president's desk. i am campaigning on ideas that i have signed into law. i will be the outside establishment outsider that goes to washington, d.c. with a sense of purpose. that is to make washington inconsequential in your life as i can make it. the key is to create a part-time congress that stop spending our children's inheritance, cut their pay, cut the time they spend in washington, d.c., send them home to get a regular job like everyone else has and allow them to live under the laws that they passed in washingto d.c..

that is r mission. i hope you will join us in that mission. your country is calling in your children are waiting for you to answer that call. when the lord said the profit isiah said, who should i send it? who will go for us? isaiah said, here am i. send me. this is your country. taking her back as your calling. i will ask you to join me in echoing the words of the profit isiah. i asked you to brave the weather this tuesday whether it is blue skies and sunny or whether there is a snowstorm going on. braved the weather. go to the caucus. caucus for us. i will make is packed with you. if you will go to the caucuses on tuesday and have my back, i will have your back for the next four years and washington, d.c.

god bless you and thank you for being with us. we will answer a few questions. you sit there. what's you alluded to your defense of the unborn by defunding planned parenthood. wordy you stand on rape and --? "i signed a parent cut pledge in december. --parenthood pledge in december. i actuallyet a woman who gave me a real new sense. i had exceptions for rape and and the life of the mother. this was a lady who had -- she was conceived because of rape through that act.

the perception she shared with me was a wonderful thing. she asked me as she looked me in the eye and said, is my life not worth saving? at that particular point in time, she really had an impact on me. those two exceptions, if you are truly going to be standing up for life, having only the exceptn for the life of the mother is appropriate. i have not only signed that pledge, but i m very comfortable that i made the right decision from the standpoint of modifying and strengthening my pro-life position. i am one of the most pro-life governors in the country. we signed parental notification and a consent.

we passed a lot this last session of the legislature that requires an individual who is getting an abortion to see a sonogram first so that they can see that young to human being inside of them. i am very proud totand up with our founding fathers as i look at life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as things that americans and a america is supposed to be about. when we talk about life, we are talking about all innocent life. [applause] >> while still sitting governor of texas, will you push for -- >> i don't plan on being the sitting governor for much longer. but we will speak up on the issue regardless of where we

are. let me share that with you. >> i do not need to put you on the spot. >> that sounds like a set up. >> are you filiar with a man named jacob howard? >> i do not believe i am. you want to familiarize me with him. but he wrote the 14th amendment. i was wdering if you could tell me a littleomething about the 14th amendment. i'd like to read the first clause if i may. all persons born or naturalized in the united states are subject to the jurisdictions there of. our citizens of the united states. >> the 14th amendment was my understanding of what it was written and why it was written

was dealing with the issue of citizenship for individuals who had been slaves. writing a wrong in our country's history is really what the 14th amendment is about. this issue of should we be educating individuals who come into this country illegally is a symptom of a bigger problem that we have got. it that happens to be that the federal government has been an abject failure at securing our borders for years and years. as the governor of the state of texas for 11 years, i had to deal with this directly. there is not anybody on that stage with me that has had to deal with this issue. they talk about how they would do x or they would do why, i have had to deal with it

i have had to ask our legislature for $400 million to send to the border of texas and mexico. have teams sent to the border to fight the crime whether it is drug traffic or trafficking and weapons or whether the end -- illegal individuals trying to come into the country. securing our border is the issue that will address all of these whether it is the education of individuals who are here legally or whether it is health care that is here illegally. >> [unintelligible] it is my understanding that the constitution of the united states was designed and written

for its citizens. it does not seem to me that it is working out like that. >> you're absolutely correct. we have been put in a situation whether it is arizona having to pass a law to deal with immigration or whether it is what we have had to do in the state of texas dealing with individuals who are not citizens but the federal government quires us. here is one thing i will tell you, as the president of the united states you will never see me directing my justice department to go to another state and see them on an issue that is their sovereign right. [applause] >> i have an economic question. the last kennedy was here, i ask the same question. i did not like his answer. if you answer it right, i will vote for you. >> that is why we show up.

that is what this is all about. >> would you be in favor of what obama did with the quantitative easing one and two. it was said obama next year will put out another two trillion dollars into the economy. are you in favor of that? >> know. let me tell you why. all you are doing with this quantitative easing which actually is my undstanding that was put into place as an experiment in japan initially. i will suggest to you it has been a monumental failure. it is a monumental failure because quantitative easing is just the printing of more money. supply and demand is pretty simple. i am an animal science major. i know if you print more money, that makes the dollar in your pocket or flats. let me just ask the crowd, are

you better off today than you were 4 trillion dollars ago? >> the first to end 1/2 years old, has been in office, when he has been there, we have lost 48% of the valley of the dollar. that is hurting retired people. right now i can tell you one year ago they said 70% of the people are living paycheck to paycheck, i can tell you for sure it was 80% here. people are hurting. every time they do that, it really hurts us. >> yes, sir. frankly, we need to get the federal reserve back to a single purpose and that is to control the prices and inflation. >> you do address art second amendment rights. the fact it is not just for hunters. >> the second amendment -- her

question was twofold. what i addressed the second amendment and then how this fast and furious effort -- there has been some individls who have questioned whether or not this entire operation was more about painting a bad picture of those of us who have owned guns and particularly gun store opetors that it was about tracking these weapons. either way, i would consider it to be very bad public policy for the administration to be involvewi it. for the attorney general to not have known about this. if he did know about it, then he has misrepresented himself to the united states congress. either way, he ought to be

fired. the attorney general knowing and not movement of those types of weapons into mexico is an absolute failure of leadership in my opinion. the second amendment is about gun ownership. it is not about having the a militia. it is about the private citizens having the right to protect themselves and their property in this country. may it always be that way. [applause] >> during the first two years of the obama administration, most of the current candidates were on the sidelines instead of providing leadership waiting for the starting gun to go off so

they can tell us what great leaders they are. there are a few exceptions to that including sarah palin and you governor rick perry. i appreciate that if you are elected, will you commit to being a leader full time, 24/7, instead of just what is convenient and low risk? >> yes, sir. i cannot wait to get into the fray. i cannot wait to get there to ask men and women who share my philosophy that are truly patriots who will come in and head up agencies headthe epa he will go back and pull every regulation that has come in in the last five years since 2008 and audit them so whether or not they create jobs or kill jobs. have men and women in the health

and human services agency that are committed to the 10th amendment. we talk about block granting back to the states and letting the states make the decisions on programs like medicaid, i intended to have an individual as the secretary of education whose sole responsibility will be to dismantle the department of education and what about parents and those functions back to the state so that the members of the legislature and iowa can decide best how to educate your children there are a number of those types of agencies that need to be dismantled. indeed to allow the states to get back to it. >> i am interested in what it was like when you were born and raised in small-town texas.

what did you do? >> not a lot. actually, there was a lot. i am pulling your leg. people think just because you live 16 miles from the closest place that had a post office, it was a dreary and not exciting existence. if i were given the oppornity to live anywhere in the world, i would still a pig that little community where i grew up. the world revolved round school, there were 110 kids' grades k through 12. a 4h member. every day was busy. every day was myself and lots of acres of dry land cotton farm to explore and what have you.

i would suggest it was not a lot different than growing up in the mid 1950's and iowa. -- mid 1950's in iowa. the president of the school board was also super trip -- superintendent of -- he was the basketball and football coach and it drove the school bus. people would say, the house i grew up and did not have running water until 1955 or 1956. -- indoor plumbing, let me put it that way. there maybe some people who say we grew up poor and without -- we did not have a lot of material things.

we were rich in family, we were rich and face. we were rich in experience is. we were rich in community. i will forever be grateful that i had the opportunity to grow up in that community. my mom and dad still live there. they live in the same house that we have been in nce 1967. you are the last question for sure. that one was too easy. >> we would have a government at would crafted this behind closed doors, healthare. when you are president, -- my desire is to see you or others like you go in and review l this and actually have

meaningful input from all of the various groups, health care providers like myself and people who are consumers so that we can get something that will actually work for both government and for the consumers themselves. >> i agree with you, but you have to take obamacare off of the book's first. [applause] i am let my wife expand on that a little bit because she is a nurse. >> i would like to know what your addition as first lady would be? >> we have so much work to get their that i am not measuring the drapes. it would truly be an honor and pleasure for me to be in that role. my background is health care.

i have a master's degree in nursing. in texas i have done topics and issues that are related to heth care. i am also very concerned about our veterans and returning veterans when one out of every four veterans cannot get a job when they return from defending our freedom. when one outf every six veterans is homeless, i am most concerned about that as well. i have a variety of issues i am interested in. i would relish the opportunity to do that. thank you. [applause] >> thank you for coming out. you have our backs next tuesday and we will have your backs the next four years in washington, d.c. god bless you.

[indistinct conversations] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] [capong performed by national captioning institute] [indistinct conversations]>> thd

get. thank >> there we go.

>> ok. >> thanks for being here. >> welcome to iowa. ho to see you again. >> good to be here

hi, sweetie. how are you? >> hi. >> i am having a little icken salad with a croissant. you all have fun. >> they did. >> you get in here. >> hi. how are you? >> thank you for coming. >> we look forward to it. >> of this is third generation. >> i love your hair. >> family now. >> get behind him. >> steven? >> what? >> the whole family. come on.

get in here. this is our family. [laughter] >> family? >> ok, gs. >> all right. >> right here. >> that is awesome. >> yes, we do. they are the best. >> god bless you. >> that is a young iowan. his name is john. great kid. yes, sir.

honor to be here. >> you want me to get on my knees? >> you know, i could go either way. i could go either way. probably -- we pay more attention to the cowboys now. >> thank you for coming. >> hi.

>> bless your heart. thank you. you have lost weight, too. >> i have. >> i have to stand on a chair so us short people c see. >> push thatutton. >> here we go. >> thanks. thanks very much. >> right here. i got you. >> one more for good measure here. >> thank you very much. thank you. >> thank you.

>> thank y. i'm going to go. you wait. i'm goingn to go out -- going to go out. >> i am not sure you can get through. >> thank you very much. >> we have got to change. >> all right. >> back up. back up. we're headed out. god bless you, sir. in 2002 i took the kids outnd

we hiked it. >> did you hide it? >> the silr american airlines at the top. >> come back. >> thank you for your prayers. >> thank you. >> i am going to go. >> you go ahead. same direction. >> thank you very much.

>> i got to chae. all right. >> back up against that way. back up. >> ok. co on, guys. >> keep your position with that. >> step over here. >> careful. >> come back. >> got to get there in the winter. >> yes, sir. thank you. >> bless you.

>> thank you. >> come on. get in here. get in here. >> canada. >> you broke it. >> heryou go.

>> okay, big boy. that come out all right? yes, sir. take care of yourself. >> oh. it's ok.

[door opening] ♪ >> thank you. >> what are you doing here? >> everybody is excited. >> i don't want a candidate with an awful lot of baggage. >> i happen to believe mitt has some pretty wonderful ideas.

good. thank you. wonderful. >> can i take your picture while i have you here? >> 1, 2, 3. >> thank you. >> that was a good one. >> i appreciate that. >> all right. hi, sweetie. on christmas vacation? how are you?

>> thank you. >> nice to have you here. thanks for coming. >> you are a really brave woman. >> thank you so much. >> thanks for coming. >> thank you. >> good afternoon. >> thank you. how are you? >> that is great. >> we are working on one today. >> that is fine. sorry about that. thank you.

>> thank you, all. i am surprised -- you should all be out getting ready for new year's. i will tell you one of my resolutions. it is to be more grateful and to express more of my gratitude. i will express that gratitude right now. i am grateful to this country we live in. i'm grateful for the freedoms we enjoy. i am grateful for my ancestors that made sacrifices so i could live in this great country. we talked about this amazing country. sometimes we forget the people who made sacrifices so we could be here. i am grateful for my grandfather. at age 8, he started working in

the coal mines. he would go to work in the yard and he would come home at night at dark. his job when he was a little boy was to open the door for the mules. he recognized he did not want that kind of a future with his children. the maxim i grew up with all the time, because my father heard this frequently from his own father, was, study hard, or it is the pick and shovel for you. i heard that when i was growing up. i did not believe those are my choices. those were my father's choices. i am grateful for my grandfather. he came here and gave his children and grandchildren a

.etter opportunity in life, bi i think about that and i think about how amazing this country has been that a coal miner's granddaughter is standing here today, and who is married to someone who might be the next president of the united states. this is an amazing country. i would also like to remind people that there are lots of different lenses you can see through. the lens that so many people see this through is on his professional accomplishments. we are all familiar with that. he has been successful in business. he was a wonderful guy at the olympics. also, he was a great governor. so, i say there is another win. -- another lens you can see the

man through. that is from his family and his wife. we have been married for 42 years. we were high-school sweetheart. we have five sons. i am the grandmother of 16 grandchildren. we have been blessed in life. in my early years of marriage, when i had those five, and i like to remind people, very naughty boys, i felt sorry for myself all the time when i would go to a house where there were girls in the home, young girls. they would be baking cookies, helping their mother, cleaning, washing dishes. i thought, this does not happen in my house. the boys were rambunctious. mitt would call home on occasion. he was in consultation and was traveling. he did not like it, by the way. i did not come either. he heard a very exasperated

wife. i said, these boys are just killing me. he would remind me that what i was doing was more important that -- and what he was doing. my job was more important than his job. i really appreciate that. he really meant it. he said, a job is temporary. the things you're doing and the things your building on will bring us forever happiness. the kids knew that. they knew how much mitt saw in me an equal partner with my husband. i will tell you that i had a great joy in knowing that my sons are behaving like their father. i see them being wonderful husbands and fantastic parents. i am so grateful for my sons and how wonderful they are with their own children. mitt and i comment frequently that they are doing a better job than we did as parents. they are just fantastic.

i am impressed with that. the other thing that i would like to have people see, a different lens, how he behaved in my darkest hour. i think some of you are familiar with the fact that i was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 1998. it was a very difficult time in my life. i had been fairly athletic, by the way. i loved to play tennis. i love to be active and to do things. i woke up -- over a number of weeks, i started thinking, what is wrong with me? something is really wrong with me. i took a nosedive. i could hardly walk. i was the teeth. i had this horrible ms fatigue. i was not aware of what it was when i was going through it. it nearly crippled me. i could not get out of bed. i did not have energy to do anything. it was a frightening time in my

life. when i finally got the diagnosis that i had multiple sclerosis, it was pretty devastating. i was, as you might imagine, a bit overwhelmed. overwhelmed come in way, with thinking that my life was over, that this was the way i was going to always be, and that i was feeling pretty sorry for myself. at that point, i really appreciated mitt. what he did was say, look, this is not fatal. we are going to be ok. i don't care that you can make dinner every night -- cannot make dinner every night. i can eat peanut butter sandwiches and cold cereal for the rest of my life. as long as we are together, we can handle anything. that gave me the permission just to be sick for a while and to except the fact i had to learn how to deal with this. it was a great time in my life

where i had a lot of self reflection, starting to think about what was most important in life. it was also a time when mitt started running the winter olympics. we moved to salt lake city. i was convinced we should do this. i left my family, i left my doctor, i left my youngest son, who was in his senior year in high school. off we went on a completely different path in life. when i left -- when we left to do the olympics, i was barely able to walk. i was very weak. mitt took the job of running the olympics. over the three years that we lived there and working to try and turn around these things, my health started to get restored. they started to figure out medications to help me. i figured out exercise programs that could bring my strength back. it was very important.

they brought me great joy and balance in my life. when it came time for the olympic torch to make its way across the country, mitt decided it would be about heroes. he wanted people to nominate heroes in their own lives. the torch had ran all across the country, thousands of miles. people were taking turns running the torch. they were all heroes in someone else's life. they were wonderful stories that came from this run. unbeknownst to me, mitt had nominated me as his hero to run the torch to salt lake city. it was an amazing thing for me to recognize where i had started three years prior, how we guy was, how sick i was, to having strength and a little more resilience three years later. it was with great emotion that

my children surrounded me, and my husband, with tears in his eyes, handed me the torch. i was able to have enough strength to run that fortune to salt lake city before the start of the winter games. that is the side of the man that i like to tell people. he has got such an ability to figure out what is important, what matters, and to really be there, and stick with you when you are in your worst moment. that has been with our marriage has been like. he has been a guy that has been wonderful, and loving, and i love the fact that he values his children and his grandchildren as his most proud -- the things he can be most proud of our his children and grandchildren. he does not look at the things he has accomplished in his life.

he looks at his most voluble treasure, his children. i appreciate that and love him very much. i look forward to him being the kind of guy that will have the strength to sit in that office, where difficult decisions will be made, and i will trust that you will have the kind of character and kind of strength to do the right thing, and to make the right decisions, and make the tough choices. because we never know what decisions are going to come across the president's desk. we trust a man and know that he as good judgment and good values. that is an important characteristic. i am looking forward to this election. you guys all have an important job to do next tuesday. it is coming up very soon. we are energized. we are feeling the momentum. it is building here in iowa and in new hampshire and south

carolina and florida. those are the next four states for us. we are excited to get going and to do what we really need to do, which is electing a president and make barack obama a one-term president. so, with your help -- [applause] thank you so much. [applause] i will make sure mitt hears that. i will tell him that. thank you. thanks so much. ok. thanks. >> he was right. >> which one is your wife?

thank you. theet's hope you get to caucuses on tuesday. ♪ thanks so much. hi, there. >> we drove out a long way. [inaudible] [laughter] >> fantastic. thanks so much. good. thank you. sure. come on in.

>> sure. >> thank you. >> good luck in the caucasus. >> thanks so much. -- caucuses. >> thanks so much. >> you're welcome. >> hi, there. nice to meet you. >> wonderful to see you. >> good. >> we were across the street.

good timing. >> this is such a great place. >> exactly. great day. >> where do you go from here? >> i meet up with mitt. he is such a great guy. >> he is. >> we actually made a little secret surprise visit. >> i saw that interview. it was fantastic. >> we had a very lovely day. i met his children. we spent a few hours at their

home. >> it was nice that you could be there. >> wonderful. >> he is a wonderful guy -- he is a dynamic guy. >> thanks so much. thank you very much. >> it will be wonderful. >> thank you. >> thank you.

>> a route to the white house rally continues with rick santorum. this is one hour 20 minutes. >> it is great to be back.

i have been here three times. we have been traveling around this state, over 700 town hall meetings we have done. we are not done yet. we're going to go to sam's neck of the woods. ande going to knock still down here. we have been running south and east and then we're going to go north and west tomorrow and then we're going to work around the center of the state to drive home those votes on tuesday night. we have been working hard. my whole family has. my son is here with me. he is famous because of his youtube video up. we were outside of adele. i took john on monday on a hunt

and we were out and had a man with a camera who is taking video. within a few minutes, a bird popped up. it was the first time he ever hunted pheasant. he knocked him right out of the year. -- air. he made his dad very proud. we had a great time. it was the second time i have been hunting here in iowa. i am a lover of hunting and a great lover of the second amendment. the second amendment is there to protect the first. [applause] very proud of my nra membership. we have been working on a lot of issues important to this country. ladies and gentlemen, it is coming down to crunch time, and

i am proud to be traveling with matt and sam today, to folks who did something that you will have to do, which you have not done already, which is, make a decision by tuesday night to go to caucus and start this process. start this process. everything else has been spring training. you start the process. all these polls, all these pundits, all these people telling you who is the race between, i mean, i guess you can go back to june. this race has been about two candidates. the problem is, they have not been the same two candidates. yet, the pundits will say, now it is these two candidates. i will tell you the candidates it is between. who you say. who you say. to't defer your judgment

everybody else. everybody else is not doing what you're doing. everybody else -- how many people have been to see another candidate other than me in this process? the vast majority of the folks here in this room. bottom-line is that you know more about these candidates than any of the pundits and any of the folks or answering these national polls. my first charge to all of you is to lead. don't defer. lead. fight for the responsibility to be first. you now have done your homework. you're not quite finished. you still have another day or so. there may still be another candidate flying through this area. lead. second. this is important. don't settle for less than what america needs at this critical time in our country's history. [applause]

again, you are being told by so many that we have to find someone that can win. this person can win. we have to make sure that we vote for this person because they can win. we have heard this many times, and every time the republican party has done so, guess what we have done? we have lost. we win when we established stark contrast. bold, bright colors point to the problems that this administration and his leftist policies have brought this country. the weaknesses he has portrayed on the international scene. we need someone who has a record that in contrast well with president obama. someone who has been a warrior on all of the issues, not just one, but has been a conservative, gone out and fought for limited government, fought for freedom, fought for the family and faith, and fought

for a strong america. that is the kind of contrast we need with president obama. it is important to understand it is not just winning. it is winning and putting someone in place who can take on the very difficult issues, and do so with a vision, having painted the vision, for america, a bold, strong, conservative vision, with our values. ladies and gentlemen, sam, and matt, step forward. after all of these meetings, after working in 99 counties, he wanted to see whether i finished what i started, and he stepped forward and got the ball rolling. officialonly elected to endorse me in this race.

i want to say, i am very grateful for it you have done and the support given us. i appreciate you giving him a big round of applause. [applause] that was important for us because we had all of these polls that said, you know, these national polls, polls here, saying we were not doing well. yet, we knew it. i was traveling in doing events here. people would leave and they would sign up, take signs. the response i was getting from people who had a chance to see me were very positive. numbers were not moving. we were running a grass-roots campaign. how will your campaign take off? it is going nowhere. seven days ago, i was being asked, are you thinking about quitting? [laughter] are you thinking about maybe joining another campaign? are you thinking about what

you're going to do after this is over? i said, everybody else has gotten it since you. how you get your bomb? only two weeks left. i said, i'm going to get my bump, not from debate performance, or raising money, not from having the media have a frenzy about me. fromoing to get our bump the people of iowa. i will get our bump when the people go out and make the decision. i think we see signs that that has happened. i just want to say to the people of iowa, i am very grateful for many things. i am grateful for the terrific attendance that we have here tonight and that we have had every time i have come here. we have great crowds. i'm grateful for that. that is not the case everywhere. i will not point the finger any place. we had people come out to really want to know and really want to make the right decisions.

yet, we have leaders like sam, who joined on afterwards, and religious leaders who joined afterwards, and that gave us a lot of incentive to continue on. i think it helped draw attention to our race. people started to look closely. give a second look at us. things began to change. this week, i doubt you would see all of the press corps that is here if it was not for the fact that our numbers are beginning to change. why? iowans are beginning to lead. they're taking their positions. they are not paying attention to those pundits. they are doing what iowans do. they lead this country. they make a recommendation. they start this process. i want to say to each and every

one of you, i appreciate your support. i need your vote at the caucus. a lot of candidates say that they need your help. they are lying. i need your help. [laughter] [applause] i need your help because we are running the campaign for you. other candidates are spending millions of dollars on television. traveling in big caravans with buses. i was asked the other day in davenport. a guy looks out the window and says, where is your bus? i said, the only bus i can afford is the greyhound. i have the chuck truck. he has been helping me,

traveling me around all over the state of iowa, giving me the wise counsel of a good, solid iowan. i can tell you, we have worked hard to earn your trust. i always believed in the and that the people of iowa would vote for the consistent conservative who was authentic, who they could trust. [applause] so, i will ask you again, as i did previously, please help us out. sign up. grab your yard signs. get or bumper stickers. get your stickers on your -- your lapel stickers. put them undercoat. when you go to church tomorrow, people see who you are for. when you go to the grocery store, when you're going to work, where you're going after this event to celebrate new year's, where it.

-- wear it. make sure you do what folks will be doing in iowa the next few days. other than celebrating new year's, they will talk about the caucus. you get a chance to talk about who you are for. go to the caucus on tuesday night. you can go and help and talk to people about -- many people who will be there on caucus night are folks who have not made their decision yet. you can help them. you can be the light for them to show them who is the right person. shake this country up. shake washington up. [applause] i am going to stop right there. i am happy to take some questions. c-span is here. i know you have a mic you'll be running around with, or not? you do? if you have questions, raise your hand. we will get you on the mic. keep it clean. you are on tv. [laughter] yes, sir.

>> are you planning on taking chuck's truck to new hampshire and north carolina? >> we have not clear that with chuck's wife yet. we have not broken that to her yet. yes. >> everybody has said they're going to clean house and make right what is wrong with washington. what would you do to clean house and make right? what do you feel are your strongest attributes that will make you the best president that our country and our god needs for the people? >> thank you for that question. i think i said before, the most important thing is to paint a vision for america. this country is a great country because we have been able to

have people of very different views and opinions be able to come into the public square and voice their opinions. they come out and move this country forward. we did that because we share basic common values. our country was founded on this basic principle of, we are endowed with certain unalienable rights. all men are created equal. that phrase with then the declaration of independence, which i twisted around, is really the heart of america, what made us the successful and great country that we are. i think we need a president who believes in that. and, who sees us as a country where all of us have rights given to us by god. and, our obligation is to go and live consistent with god's laws. right? god gives us rights. what comes with rights? responsibility. that is right.

i think it is important to listen to great leaders of the past in america. what was reagan able to do? he was able to paint a picture of who we are. he left office, and the last thing he said to the american people as president, he laid out his concern about americans learning who we are, about what america is, what it stands for, and why we are exceptional. he has every right to be concerned about that, and even more so now. our popular culture -- we are all doing what this president is doing, dividing us up instead of uniting us among these basic principles. i said -- reminded everybody of e pluribus unum, out of many,

one. had a debate with howard dean within the last year two. we were asked what we thought was the most important quality of america, or characteristic of america, and he said, diversity. diversity? did you ever hear of e pluribus unum? people who are diverse can come together to be one. the problem with most countries in the world is that diversity creates conflict. if we celebrate diversity, then we lay the groundwork for that conflict. we need to celebrate common values and have a president that lays out those common values, not what this president has done, lay out how we have

one group of people be pitted against another group of people. class warfare. ethnic warfare. whatever you want to call it. this president, whether it is trying to pit the hispanics against certain other groups of people, or whether it is against -- working people, people who have done well, all of those things. this is a president that divides into groups. maybe that is why howard dean was so interested in diversity. divide and conquer. that has never been america. america is not about dividing caulker. america is about bringing everyone together. in the public square, people of faith and no faith, people who can lay out their claims, and then try to work together to come up with a solution together.

that is what i hope to do. that is wh