a debate with the republican presidential candidates. this is >> a special edition of meet the press live from new hampshire. the last debate before the first in the nation republican primary. voting is just 48 hours away. we come to the granite state where nearly one in five voters remain undecided, despite seeing these candidates in phase. a small state that will have a big impact on the race. "live free or die." the issu -- jobs and the economy. which of these candidates is best suited to take on president obama? this morning, our debate in partnership with facebook, the world's number one social platform, and the new hampshire "union leader." the candidates, the issues, and

your questions. >> this is the nbc news facebook republican candidates debate. the moderator, david gregory. [applause] >> good morning and welcome to this special edition of "meet the press." the final debate before new hampshire voting began. all six candidates are here. before we begin, you know the drill. each candidate will have one minute, 60 seconds, to make their statement to respond to questions, and 30 seconds for follow ups or rebuttals. we're on a pretty tight schedule so i will ask the candidates to stay within their allotted time. we will see how that goes. we partnered with facebook. some of the questions will come from me and some will come from you. we encourage you to weigh in on the debate in real time.

you can monitor that conversation and we will see some of your feedback during that debate over the course of this debate. candidates, good morning. i want to say on behalf of all americans, i thank you for being willing to debate each other every 10 hours, whether you feel you need it or not. [laughter] this is an important moment, elections are about choices. they are about distinguishing one from the other. there is a political element to that and it has to do with policy as well. governor romney has won the iowa caucuses. although narrowly. he is up in the polls here in new hampshire. he is up in the polls in south carolina. speaker gingrich, why shouldn't governor romney be the nominee of this party? what about his record concerns you most or makes him disqualified to be the nominee? >> who is most likely in the long run to survive against the

kind of billion dollar campaign the obama team is going to run? a bold reagan conservative with a very strong economic plan is a lot more likely to succeed in that campaign than a relatively timid massachusetts moderate who had an economic plan so timid, it resembled obama's. massachusetts was fourth from the bottom in job creation under governor romney. we created 11 million jobs while i was speaker. and i worked with president reagan in the entire recovery of the 1980's. there is a huge difference between a reagan conservative and somebody who comes out of the massachusetts culture with a essentially moderate record. i think you'll have all hard time in a debate with president obama. >> you believe governor romney is unelectable? >> the bigger the contrast, the

bolder ideas, the clearer the choice. the hardest for the billion dollar campaign to smear his way back into office. >> speaker, this is your flier. governor? >> david, i am very proud of the record i have. the one thing you cannot fool about is the record of the governor next door. people have watched me over my term as governor and saw that i was a solid conservative. i brought important change to massachusetts. i cut taxes 19 times, balance the budget every year i was governor. put in place a $2 billion ready date fund. -- rainy day fund. we had seen job losses in the months leading up to my becoming the governor. we began to finally create jobs. we created more jobs in massachusetts than barack obama has created in the entire country. we got our state police to

enforce illegal immigration laws. i am very proud of the conservative record i have. that is why some of the leading conservatives in today's world who are fighting the conservative battles of the day, that do not have any axe to grind, have gotten behind my campaign. the governor of south carolina, the governor of new jersey. the great senator of new hampshire. these are conservatives that looked to my record, looked at my plan. i happen to believe if we want to replace a lifetime politician, like barack obama, you have to choose someone who has not been a lifelong politician. who has not spent his entire career in washington. has proven time and again that he can lead. and the private sector twice, in the olympics and as a governor. we have to nominate a leader if we will replace someone who is not a leader. >> senator santorum, you would have been in washington even longer. it would have been 21 years.

you have along washington record. how do you address this question? why shouldn't governor romney be the nominee? what is disqualifying in your judgment? >> if his record was so great as governor of massachusetts, why did he not run for reelection? if it was that great, why did you bailout? the bottom line is, i go and fight the fight. if it was that important for the people of massachusetts to fight for them, you could at least and up and make the battle. i did that. i ran for reelection and won a couple of times. i was redistricted. i was in a 71% democratic district. i had a 90% conservative voting record. it was a hard thing to do. my district was more democratic than the state of massachusetts. i stood up and fought for the conservative principles. i did not do what governor romney did in 1994. i was running the same year he ran in 1994. i ran against an incumbent. governor romney lost by almost

20 points. at the end of that campaign, he would not stand up for conservative principles. he ran from ronald reagan and said he would agree with ted kennedy on gay-rights an abortion and a whole host of issues. we want someone, when the time gets tough, we want someone who is going to stand up and fight for the conservative principles. not bailout and not run and run to the left of ted kennedy. >> when you endorsed him four years ago, you said those words -- that he would stand up for conservative principles. >> white john mccain. -- like a john mccain. >> a lot of things are inaccurate. it is unusual, and perhaps understandable, that people who spend a life in politics, when you get in politics, that is all you want to do. if you have been elected, you want to get reelected. i went to massachusetts to make a difference. i did not go there to begin a political career. i made a difference. i put in place the things i wanted to do.

i went about the accomplishments we wanted to pursue. there were 100 things i wanted to do. those things i pursued aggressively, son and we won, someone did not. to run again? that would be about me. i was trying to get the state in the best shape i could. left the world of politics and went back into business. i have the opportunity to use the experience i have. you have this surprised look on your face. >> are you going to tell people that you are not going to run for reelection? for president if you win? >> it is still my time. >> governor, take 30 seconds. >> in this, for me, politics is not a career. my career was being in business and starting a business and making it successful. my life's passion has been my family, my faith, and my country. by virtue of the experiences i've had, i am in a good position to make a contribution to washington. instead of people going to washington for 20 or 30 years

-- i think it stinks. i think we need to have people go to washington and serve washington, the people of the nation and go home. i want to see term limits in washington. >> so one-term? >> i think the president of the united states -- of course, i will fight for a second term. there is a lot of work to be done. >> senator, take 30 seconds. >> i realize that the red light does not mean anything to you because you are the front- runner. [laughter] can we drop a little bit of the pious baloney? you ran in 1994 and lost. not servingyou're in the senate with rick santorum. you had a very bad reelection rating. you dropped out of office. you had been out of state for 200 days. preparing to run for president. you thought about what to do. you were running for president when you were governor.

you're going all over the country. you were out of state consistently. you promptly reentered politics. you happen to lose to john mccain. just like you lost to kennedy. now you are back running. you have been running for years and years and years. this idea, suddenly citizenship showed up in your mind. just level with the american people. you have been running since the 1990's. [applause] >> mr. speaker, citizenship has always been on my mind. i happen to see my dad run for governor when he was 54 years old. his advice -- never get involved in politics if you have to win an election to pay a mortgage. if you find yourself in the business you can serve, you have the responsibility to do so. if you think you can make a difference. i never thought i would get involved in politics. when i saw ted kennedy running unopposed in 1994, a man i thought had created a permanent

underclass in america, i said someone has to run against him. i did not have a ghost of a chance of beating him. this republican from massachusetts was not going to beat ted kennedy. i told the partners in my firm, i will be back in six months. do not take my chair. i went in and gave it a real battle. i was happy he had to take a mortgage out on his house to ultimately defeat me. i stood up as a citizen to battle what i felt was best for the nation. we are talking about running for president. i am in this race because i care about the country. i believe my background and experience are what we need. >> let me bring dr. paul into this. there is a question about who is the true conservative. governor romney said only nine years ago, during an interview, i think people recognize i am not a partisan republican. i am someone who is moderate and my views are progressive. do you believe governor romney now when he says he is a man of

constancy? and that he will stand up for conservative principles? >> this discussion has been superficial. i think the question that u.s. is superficial. -- that you ask is superficial. you're talking about character. we should deal with the issues. i do not see how we can do well against obama if we have any candidates that endorsed tarp bailouts. single payer systems, and does not challenge the federal's reserve bailing out their friends. i do not see how we can have anybody compete with obama who does not challenge this huge empire we have overseas and the overseas spending. this is how nations come down. they extend themselves too far overseas. that is how the soviets came undone. we have to talk about real cuts, and we have not gotten around to this yet. if we want to change things, we need to talk about this. our history is important. our character is important.

in the debate, it is less significant than what we really believe in. >> you read my mind, dr. paul. to some of to get the tough choices not just on politics but policy. >> gov. perry, is governor romney unelectable? >> who is it that can beat obama? who is that they can invigorate the tea party? who is it that can take the message of smaller outsider government that will truly change the place? i see individuals who have been the big spending republicans in washington, d.c.. and let's be honest, the fact of the matter is that obama has thrown gasoline on the fire. the fire was burning well before obama got there. it was policy and spending both from wall street and insiders in washington that got us in

this problem. we need a candidate that can not only draw that stark contrast between themselves and barack obama, but also stand up and lead the tea party movement. 2010 was about the tea party standing up and understanding that republicans had caused as much of this problem as anything. it was their power that brought together, brought washington, d.c., and the house to republican control. that is the kind of individual we have got have the lead. >> i would be remiss if i did not allow you to respond, governor romney. what would you say to conservatives so that they trust you would stand up for conservative principles? >> they have my record as governor. that is the great people in new hampshire, they can see what i did as governor in massachusetts. i had the occasion after my failed attempt to run for

president, a learning experience, to sit down and write a book. i described my view for the country. people can describe it in differing ways. my view is that the principles i have learned in business and the principles as governor -- it has made me more conservative as time goes on. i have seen a lot of government try to solve problems and it did not work. the right course for america is to have somebody to understand how the economy works, who will passionately get america back on track. >> we will come back to the question of obstacles. and get a policy, governor huntsman. this is an age of austerity for this country. a jobs crisis, a spending crisis in washington. what specifically would you say to americans, these are cuts i'm going to make in federal spending that will cause pain, that will require sacrifice?

>> with respect to governor romney, there are a lot of people were tuning in this morning. i am sure they are terribly confused after watching all this political spin. i was criticized last night by governor romney for putting my country first. hollen remind people throughout new hampshire and the united states, he criticized me while he was out raising money. for serving my country in china. yes, under a democrat. like my two sons are doing in the united states navy. they are now at asking what political affiliation the president is. -- they are not asking what political affiliation the president is. i want to be very clear to the people here in new hampshire. i will always put my country first. i think that is important. [applause] >> we serve our country first by standing for people that believe and conservative principles and doing everything in our power to promote an agenda does not include president obama's agenda. i think the decision to work for president obama -- i do not disrespect your decision. the person who should represent our party, running against

president obama, is not someone who called him "a remarkable leader" and went to be his ambassador in china. >> this stage is divided, david, -- this nation is divided, david, because of attitudes like that. [applause] the american people are tired of the partisan division. they have had enough. there is no trust left among the american people and the institutions of power. we have had enough. we have to change our direction in terms of coming together as americans. >> let's talk substance. named three areas where americans will feel real pain in order to balance the budget. >> i would have to say that i agree with the ryan plan. i think i'm the only one standing up here who has embraced the rhineland. -- the rise and planned. -- the ryan plan.

it is a very aggressive approach to taking about $6.20 trillion out of the budget over 10 years. it looks at everything. what i like about it is that it says there will be no sacred cows. medicare will not be a sacred cow. the department of defense will not be a sacred cow. i will stand up and i will say, we are where we are. 24% spending -- >> three programs that will make americans feel pain, sir. >> i will tell the upper income category in this country that there will be means testing. there a lot of people in this nation -- i will not tie the department of defense spending to 10% of gdp. i will tie it to a strategy to protect the american people. if we think we can not find efficiencies and cuts in the department of defense budget, we are crazy. >> senator santorum, same question. three programs that would have to be cut to make americans feel pain, to sacrifice of we balance the budget. >> i would agree with jon huntsman.

i talked about that at hollis yesterday during my meeting. we have to make sure that we are not going to burden future generations with a social security program that is underfunded. we have to take those who have been successful, who are seniors, and we have to reduce benefits. it makes no sense for folks who are struggling right now to pay the payroll tax right now. tax on labor. it makes us uncompetitive. it does not make any sense to me. just like i did on welfare reform. food stamps. i would do the same thing with medicaid, those three programs. housing programs. block grant them. send it back to the states. put a time limit. you do those three things, we will take these programs, which are now dependency programs, and you take them into a transitional programs to help people move out of poverty. >> speaker gingrich, on the

issue of medicare, when you were on "meet the press" you talked about a step that is too far. moving seniors on to a premium support or a voucher program, depending on how you phrase it. senate and santorum thinks that current seniors should be moved off of that program into premium support or about to program. you agree with him in making current seniors bear the brunt of that? >> the fact is that the ryan white and bill introduced yden bill-- ryan-w an introduced recently is is essential improvement. allows for transition to make sense. i find it fascinating that very highly paid washington commentators and washington analysts love the idea of pain. who is going to be in pain? the duty of the president is to

find a way to manage the federal government so that primary pain is on changing the bureaucracy, and on theft alone, we could save $100 billion alone in medicare and medicaid if the federal government were confident. the only people that would be in pain are crooks. i think a sound approach to improve the government, not punish the american people, because of the failure of the political class. >> from facebook, a lot of questions have been submitted. we do have a spending crisis but also a lot of people are hurting. with more americans on government assistance than ever before, it is it on american for americans to feel relieved when the government helps them? >> let me answer the question you asked earlier, the three areas that you would make some reductions to people feel pain. i tell you, it would be the bureaucrats and the bottom part of commerce, and energy, and education that we're going to do away with. [laughter] [applause]

>> and that is your final answer. >> the fact of the matter is, if americans want to have a job, that is the issue here. the idea that their people clamoring for government to give them assistance is just wrongheaded. that is what we need to be focusing on as a people, how do we create the environment in this country worthy on to producers know that they can risk capital, have a chance to get a return on their investment, and create jobs so that people have the dignity to take care of their families? that is what americans are looking for. i have done that in taxes and have the executive governing experience that no one else on the state has. >> if we will take a quick break and come back live from new hampshire with many more questions for the candidates and feedback from you. please participate on-line. we're coming right back here.

[applause] ♪ >> and we are back. we want to get to the questions here with our candidates. before the break, we were talking about medicare. paul ryan, senator santorum had a plan where you like to move people to vouchers are premium support and it would take care of their health care from there. a lot of debate about that. you said that senior should be affected right now, have been affected right now which has been controversial. >> i hear this all the time when i'm campaigning around the state. we should have that same kind of health care that members of congress have. that is pretty much what paul ryan's plan is. a premium support model, so does

every other federal employee. it works for it welt that the federal government has a liability that puts money out there and if you want, if you are unemployed in washington d.c., you have a bunch of different plans to choose from and you have all sorts of options available to you. you won a more expensive plan, you pay more. if you want of less-expensive plan, you do not. barack obama, you believe that people can be free to make choices or you need to make decisions for them. i think americans should be free to make choices in their health care plan that is best for them. >> if governor romney, a lot of discussion this morning on facebook about taxes. as we talk about taxes and spending, of course we talk about economic security in the economic growth. there's been a debate in washington and beyond as you know between warren buffett and grover norquist. grover norquist says that no tax increases under any circumstances. warren buffett says, the wealthy

in this country can pay more and they should pay more. indeed, balancing the budget is a way for more economic growth down the line. who knows more about the american economy, grover norquist or warren buffett? >> who knows more about tax policy? the right course for america is not raise taxes on americans. i understand that president obama and people of his political persuasion will like to take more money from the american people, and they want to do that to continue to grow government. and the answer for america is cannot grow government, it is to shrink government. we have been going over the last 40 years, government grows faster than the economy relative to inflation. that is why i have a plan that reduces government spending. i cut programs, all series of programs, and the number one cut is obamacare, that size is $95 billion a year. return the state's whole series of programs, and said how much

goes to them, and with regard to entitlement, i do not want to change medicare and social security for current retirees. but for younger people coming up, they have to recognize that in the future, higher-income people will receive less people. >> you seem to be uncomfortable with the moment from our earlier in this debate cycle and everybody said they would reject even a 10-1 ratio of cuts to new taxes. >> it was a silly format. it was an important question than a esterase our hand, and for heaven's sakes, we did i get a chance to talk about it. i put a tax reform proposal on the table endorsed by the wall street journal. it calls for what absolutely needs to be done and everybody knows about it. we're so chock full of loopholes and deductions, it weighs down our tax system to the tune to $1.1 trillion.

kiev's rise -- it gives rise to lobbyists. this country can no longer afford it and we have to prepare for competition in the 21st a tree. >> speaker gingrich, if you become president gingrich, and the leader of the democrats' harry reid says he is going to promise to make you a one-term president, how would you propose to work with someone like that in order to achieve results in washington? >> every president which works with the leader of every opposition knows that they are working with someone who is trying to make them all one-term process -- one-term president. i worked with ronald reagan and tip o'neill was speaker, he wanted to make reagan a one-term president. as speaker, i was negotiating with oakland in. he knew i wanted him to be a one-term president and we got a lot of things done, including welfare reform, because i agree

with what governor has been said earlier, if you have to say that the country comes first at some point. how are we going to get things done? let's sit down and a room and talked it through. i will tell you what i need and what i cannot do. you tell me what you need and what you can i do. and sometimes it takes 30 days, but it people of goodwill, even partisans, come together and talk about -- talk it out, four straight years of a balanced budget with a republican speaker and a democratic president. it can be done. >> have you work with the other side before -- when they have committed to working against you? >> i was republican governor with a slightly democratic house and senate. i wonder at the very began -- beginning and sat with the

senate president. he so that them campaign was over and people expect us to now govern for them. and we did. we met every week and rotated in offices as we got to know each other personally. we developed a relationship of respect even though we disagreed. as crises arose, we have a severe crisis and i went to them and said, will you give me unilateral power to cut spending? without even a vote of the legislature. they had enough confidence to do that. i was able to cut the spending on an emergency basis, not just slowdown the rate of growth. we can work together, republicans and democrats able to go across the aisle because we have -- we really do have areas of common interests even though there are dramatically different perspectives on how the world works, we can find common ground. i approve that i can work with people with 19 tax cuts, protecting charter schools, he drove our schools to be number one in the nation and kept them