to a reporter from the national review about the primary results. television and radio host status smiley and princeton professor cornell west will weigh in on the presidential campaign. later, james bennett of the atlantic on their recent story on u.s. >> thank you, new hampshire. tonight we made history. [applause] ♪ >> meant romney's victory speech last night in new hampshire. good morning, and welcome to " washington journal." victory speechs

last night. he is the first non incumbent president of canada to win in both iowa and new hampshire. the race now goes to south carolina. we would like to hear your reaction to the new hampshire primary. here are the numbers to call. if you are in new hampshire resident -- you can also e-mail us -- find us on twitter. we will get out and share it on the air. you can join the conversation on facebook. we of questions posted about it romney. you can see the entire video with the victory speech last night. manchester, new hampshire

newspaper. texas representative, ron paul, who campaigned hard across the state was poised to easily win the battle for second place. the former massachusetts governor with stood up bras of attacks on his record. as i mentioned, the race now goes to south carolina. there is a series of primaries coming up. south carolina is the next one

on january 21, so let's see how the south carolina newspapers are looking at the contest. looking at another south carolinian newspaper -- let's hear what you have to say --

houston, texas of the republican line. ♪ i think mitt romney will have a hard time in the south. -- caller: i think mitt romney will have a hard time in the south. people are tired of the same old, same old. the 18-30 crowd is for ron paul. the baby boomers have to have the party. my generation will have to clean up the mess. hopefully we can keep the media honest and can have a fair and honest ballot-counting election. hopefully we can turn this country around. if not, i will vote for jerry johnson. >host: christine that, independent calller in oakland, michigan. caller: i have a real problem with mitt romney and his politics and finding out about

bain capital and what he spoke of in nevada when he said nobody should help the people losing their homes. i am not sure that is politics. i really wonder about his idea of fairness, morals, and the matter what is the law. >> body into something christina's talking about, there is a story by phil rucker.

he goes on to talk about how he is trying to create an image of himself that will surely appeal to voters. next call from connecticut. caller: we all know mr. norquist is calling all the shots. how is it that ron paul and all the other republicans, when we know they are part of the pledge, how can they help us? republicans will continue to block and say no to every bill. . tt romney has five sons thi have they been to war? that is all i have to say.

host: wide use it they are be holding to grover norquist? -- why do you say they are beholden to grover norquist? the story from south carolina. let's go to charlotte, north carolina. jim, republican calller. what do you think about the race? caller: the later you just spoke to. i do not know what alternative university has been on, but the house is generating bills and the senate has been controlled by democrats, and they are the ones that let them languish in died over there. we're running over 900 days

without a budget. maybe she should take notice of that. when it comes to the south, folks down here are real strong when it comes to 10th amendment rights. we know we've voluntarily surrender sovereignty to the united states for the betterment of the country. however, when you talk about a massachusetts moderate implementing mayor ronnie care so everyone would sign up, that goes against the grain. i think people will have a tough time, even though he might win. we will see what happens. to eugene,s go oregon. michael, independent calller. caller: i think the calls might be more reflective of 4:00 in the morning on the east coast. i think obama has turned into the greatest president you could

want. i am not worried about the economy, i am worried about the president be able to execute me with the drone the size of a butterfly. i am astounded at the changes that have happened to america. i do not know why they would want to elect anyone else. it seems obama has dragged the kool-aid or something. -- drank the kool-aid or something. host: who would you support? caller: i would love to see a full-blooded indian to be our president. i would like him to decide if the oil pipeline can be run through our country. "bostont's go to the globe" newspaper --

let's hear from jerry arm our democrats line in memphis, tennessee. caller: i hear people calling in and saying they support what paul. i voted for obama on, and i will keep voting for obama and keep voting democrat. the republicans do not care about poor people. they want to end government programs to help poor people. >> with regard to talk later on this morning with tavis smiley and cornell west about no one is talking about poverty. i am watching politics

since i was 16. obama has been talking about poverty. if you are against poor people having health care, that is not being a good american. it is sad. host: let's go on to scott in michigan. joining us from detroit. to me, heyor ronnimitt romney, is a great person in the stands up for everything i believe in. he will get my vote. i agree with everything he has to stand for. host: another scott joins us from indiana. an independent calller. caller: the only one that is in

the republican race right now that could beat barack obama in the presidential election would be ron paul. he would get all the independent votes. he would get the democratic votes and other boats. if the republicans truly want to win the election, they should stand behind ron paul, because mitt romney only has some of the boats, and republicans cannot get the independent voters. he is the one i would vote for. i would like to see him get the nominee, which no one will let him. host: what do you think about his performance last night in new hampshire? caller: i have followed him since he used to be the head of the libertarian party. i am a true believer and freedoms, and we need to get them back. the country will not let him when or they're going to give

the country back to the people. thank you very much for your time. host: fred tweets in -- listen to ron paul speaking last night about his win and goals. >> i called governor romney, because the quick quick -- clearly had a clear-cut victory, but we are nibbling at his heels. there was another victory tonight. he had a victory, but we have had a victory for the cause of victory tonight. clip: there is no doubt that if this whole effort that we are involved in will not go unnoticed. let me tell you. [applause]

i think intellectual revolution is going on now to restore liberty in this country and well on its way. there is no way they're going to stop the momentum we have started. host: ron paul giving what his team called a victory speech. he did come in second in yesterday's new hampshire primary. 23% of the vote. jon huntsman at 17%. newt gingrich and rick santorum both had 9%. rick perry 1%. he did not choose to spend campaign time in new hampshire. caller: good morning. and i would like to comment on mitt romney in specifically to capital. bime at bain

going into south carolina, i hope the voters would understand more about the business. i am at neither for a new gingrich, mayor romney, ron paul. i am for jon huntsman. he is the canada. he is the one that communicating on a very sound level to the public. -- he is the candidate. i personally have a son who has been in the armed forces united states army. he is a screaming eagle. he is a captain. commander of his battalion and doing a good job. he has been deployed to help give a stamp for one year. all i can tell you is that our

men and women in uniform that serves the country, that have came back maimed and disabled, all of these service people need to get some type of representative in there that knows when the going is done, get out of the country. the police power, the aftermath power, it is all over there except for the policing of afghanistan. right now jon huntsman is the man. host: what did you think about his third-place finish in new hampshire? were you disappointed? caller: i am disappointed in him because of the father/son issue. his assistant, all of them are

bringing things out much too late. he did not get proper time in free debate. rick perry stumbled, and people got on him for stumbling. jon huntsman did not get proper air time and hardly any of his debates. to listen to what he has to say -- clip: ladies and gentleman, i think we are in the hunt. i think third place is a ticket to ride, ladies and gentlemen. in hello, south carolina. we're here tonight because of you. we have the greatest volunteers,

greatest organizers the state has ever seen. give yourself a hand. and we proved the point that this state once its candidates to burn it the old-fashioned way, on the ground, handshake by handshake, conversation by camera station, we got it done, ladies and gentlemen. host: jon huntsman came in third in new hampshire yesterday. a storys take a look at about what is next for him.

host: you look at some of the breakdowns in the newspapers this morning about who voted for who. let's go to byrd, democrat calller in brooklyn. -- gerta. caller: could you please not cut me off this morning? i just want to say that i am tired with the republicans blaming barack obama for

everything. he inherited the problem. he did not cause all these problems. the people need to give him a chance. and he has only been there three years, and i think he deserves another four years. i am going to be voting for him. i also want to say could you please not be so blatant with your body is between democrats and republicans. you cut off the democrats and what the republicans go on. host: definitely trying to be fair. independent calller in chicago. good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to make a comment from the new hampshire primary. first of all, on the fairness question to gov. mitt romney, i believe the comments he continues to make, i am part of

, [inaudible] some of those people should have gone to jail that calls to the financial collapse. you should go to jail and pay the price. none of those people were punished. in my opinion they are not jobs creator. for the most part they are crooks. i believe by ron paul being a live -- libertarian, in his own words he would not have voted for fair accommodations.

there would still be black and white water pounds. we would not have the epa. we would have clean water or clean air. i do not believe free-market should be indicted. i do believe there should be some checks and balances. host: let's good to e-mail comments. -- go to email comments -- somerville, south carolina. the race is coming to you. what do you think? caller: i believe the voters between the ages of 18-35, they probably do not know the history when they see the republican candidates. does the country realize ronald reagan borrow more money from

the chinese than any u.s. president in history. that is my comment. host: joplin, missouri. mary a democratic calller. caller: i did vote for obama in the last election. i a am disappointed. i agree with the former calller spirit and i agree the one who has the new voice for america and clear and concise vision and to is a true patriot, i believe that is wrong hall. that is who will get my vote in the next election. host: what happens next for him? caller: people are starting to take notice of him. he has true values. i think he will get a greater pulling than people realize. look at the upcoming dates for the primaries.

next up south carolina on june 3 21st. florida 10 days later. about a caucuses are february 4. that week in may in the caucuses there. -- in maine. this is taken jidda reports-bit. it shows mitt romney in the lead with 37 percent signed. rick santorum was behind him. ron paul at well. going down to perry and huntsman. a florida poll. san the numbers are changing theire as the race shapes up. the newspapers are reporting

there may not be any sense of who has enough delegates and boats until march. let's look at what is coming up in march. that is when washington ways in. then super tuesday with the whole group of states that will bode. the cumulative number of gop pledged delegates available in states that had come to us by caucus for primary date, by march there is a threshold needed to win. that could happen then. we could see the numbers creep up there as the numbers go by. santa cruz, california. marcus on the independent line. caller: i am calling all the way from santa cruz really early in the morning. i really feel the need to tell people to try to find out more about the candidates. do not just what mainstream media. we'll show manipulated by the

stories. you have to think about who is getting paid for people to believe the things they are pushing. especially with computers and all the information available, try to look stuff appeared in especially who is paying for them. go to open secrets. this is all public information. i do not care who the diverse republican is -- i am independent myself. who is paying for these guys? i think the current president, i have been all over the map. i voted for obama. he is tramping all over our civil liberties. he turned is backed with indefinite detention. i never thought in my lifetime i would see that. i cannot believe people are

letting that happen. we're just walking along with it. what about the constitution? like this at about the mainstream media, people have got to find the stuff out. where is the money going? that is where you will find the truth. i think we don't need a leader that has served in the military. -- i think we need a leader that has served in the military. probably the most important thing i can say is we as people need to figure out who is the genuine person. host: let's look at a comment on twitter the ways and on civil rights and civil liberties. he says -- going on to michigan. christopher, republican calller. welcome.

caller: good morning. i would like to let you know that my vote is in for mitt romney. he seemed like he is more intelligence than barack obama. he did not walk into a pile. he should of straitened up piles from the beginning with the money. that is how i think it should be. host: let's look at who voted out in new hampshire. this is from "the wall street journal." age, things shake up a little bit. 18-29 years old, the majority supported ron paul. the rest of what form it romney. when you look at the education rates, but the majority of the

voters went for mitt romney. well republicans mostly wet for but romney, a slight majority of independent voters went for ron paul. and how do the voters feel about the tea party? folks who opposed the tea party, the biggest columnist for jon huntsman. evangelical, mayor ronnie. an evangelical category, rick santorum got a fair number. the time of decision, strong majority of those decision made the decision earlier what form it from me. jon huntsman and ron paul are creeping up on that. county, newmorris

jersey. john on the line there. caller: i want to comment on something another calller said. i think he has been fair, and i appreciate the fact that when you help callers that are blatantly racist, you pretty much shut them down. i appreciate the fact the use of those people down. to my comment, the thing that really bothers me the most about what is happening with the republican primary is there are so many people buying into the idea that mitt romney is some sort of boost wrapper. he started off with a tremendous head start from most of his peers. and now he padres himself as a boost trapper -- portrays himself as a boot strap her. if he would be honest about how

he got started, how he got his money and except it into the most elite school. how his campaign -- even his campaign, the attack dog that tore down newt gingrich, people with huge amount of money. the idea we're supposed to buy this authentic bootstrap for bothers me. that is ron paul supporters talk about him being the true freedom fighter. he is been sleeping -- slipping in your marks into budgets year after year and then turning around in voting against him. his hands are clean and not been responsible for the spending going on in washington. i do not blame c-span, because they are pretty much a window into what is happening, but i

wish these other network -- networks were put out these other things. host: let look at a conversation on facebook. wendell says what is the big their romney winning? he has all the money. i did not know why they're not putting the win into the favorite son context. clip: americans know our future is brighter and better than these troubled times. [applause] we still believe in the hope, promise and the dream of america. we still believe in the shining city on the hill.

we still believe our city is better than the present site 9% unemployment. it is better than that misguided policies of the past three years in field leadership of one man. and the president has run out of ideas. now he is running out of excuses. [applause] tonight -- and tonight we are asking the good people of south carolina to join the citizens of new hampshire and make 2012 the year he runs out of time. host: mayor ronnie last night in new hampshire. jonathan and california. republican calller. good morning. caller: good morning.

thank you for taking my call. i was shocked about people saying they're going to vote against barack obama. mayor ron may and barack obama are the same things. they are the same things we bailed out. i would just think that is reason never to vote for them again. i'm ron paul supporter. as far as the earmarks, it is something i would consider looking into. ron paul i see as the best one to pick right now. host: what did you think about his second place -- caller: i saw that one coming. he ran in 2008, and there would

be residual people that kept his message. it seems like it is picking up right now. i saw that one coming. the "ap" is reporting a story about mitt romney. it says the former massachusetts governor is competing. he is an uphill climb in south carolina where he finished fourth in 2008. he tells cbs this morning he is confident about south carolina, saying we're going to push forward. he regrets his fellow republicans have made his record as a venture capitalist and issue. they said -- he said they tried the same line in new hampshire and it fell extremely flat. but go to arkansas. ron on the independent line. i would like to

respond to the man earlier from arizona who son i believe was a captain in the marines. if he wants to support someone that is going to support troops, the overwhelming fact is that dr. paul gets more contributions from active military than all other candidates, including obama combined. if the brave young men and women who are defending our country overseas one doctor killed -- dr. paul come i think we need to support their decision. host: can i ask you a question ? twitter says thi caller: i think ron paul is our

generation's thomas jefferson. i believe as this thing progresses, i think people will give up on the hollywood types that are backed by bankers. dr. paul gets no money from super packs. the majority of money as raise comes from active duty military. if i were not already or ron paul supporter, of the over whelming fact that the military supports him is enough to sway me. host: brett in washington state has this to say. we all know mitt romney will win. as far as i am concerned, this is a big waste of time, money, and energy. just think of all the good use these millions, possibly billions, of dollars could do is put to use in a responsible way. next calller puriter. caller: good morning.

it is pretty laughable that there are people out there that think mitt romney, a money bag, is it. he is nothing more than two- faced, phony baloney. he reminds me of an aluminum siding salesman that is trying to sell you aluminum to cover your brick house. he has no soul. host: since you are a democrat, what do you dig of the primary field? caller: that is why mitt romney is the darling because he is in a field what a bunch of dopes. i am hearing all this talk about president obama is this

and that. i used to be a republican until i voted in the last election. i was one of those more for me, none for you. if you notice the breakdown of the primaries, you notice where most of his voters came from, the wealthy. your favorite son is the one that said what all the companies by. who bailed him out and made them profitable? president obama against a lot of crap he was taking. i supported him because i am a union household. he wants right to work in my state. we did not have to call

names, but let me ask you one thing. another democrat rode in and said i found jon huntsman statement country first really resonated with me. that is what paid in arizona said. -- peg in arizona said. caller: i think that woman was more radical than anything. i want to say i did not vote last time around because i could not vote for john mccain, and i think that was a mistake. i am really scared for the party. these people are radical. it wrongly is kind of radical, but we need to vote and vote. everyone -- the republicans that sat back and watched the election last time, we knew john mccain would go down, and we just let things go. myself, i am the republican all

my life. my mother raised me as a republican. if you want more welfare, you need to vote for obama. go here from south carolina resident. pat joins us on the republican line. caller: good morning, and happy new year. thank you for your time. what i am saying is all this money that has been spent. they keep telling us our country is broke, but somebody gainsborough. -- ain't broke. mr. romney has five sons and never been in the service and tells us he is condescend our children back over there. put his sons on the front line. as far as the rest of the candidates, i do not know what the is talking about. thank you for your time. host: let's hear from jack,

independent calller in rhode island. caller: good morning. i have been trying to reach you since monday because he's been had a guest on the telephone. i am not sure if his last name was greg or craig. he was a governor back in the early '90s in new hampshire i believe. for some reason i get the feeling he avoided every question that the calller had regarding what his job was now. until the end, it finally came out. if i had any question of who should run on the gop ticket against president obama, if the democrats want the republicans to lose it is to have mitt romney nominated.

if i think you are talking about the interview with jeff craig. caller: this fella, at the end he said he worked for goldman sacks. if you work for goldman sacks after he was a senator for a wire -- a while also from the church, he has to be a lobbyist. mayor ronnie is being backed by lobbyists. -- mitt romney is being backed by lobbyists. do we want the same thing to continue? if democrats want to win again, a mixture mitt romney gets nominated. -- make sure mitt romney gets nominated. caller: i was watching this live come in because of the time zone

difference, it was great to see it happen between 5:00 and 6:00. i was so inspired by watching ron paul's speech. i want to talk about the electability issue. i cannot believe the pundits say may romney is more electable. he has mitt romney care against obama care. what is the difference? he will not grow as into war unnecessarily. none of mitt romney sons have served in the military. i read about this on bloomberg business week that he was in

france. he chose the mormon church over his country. that says a lot. that is where he ends up ok. i go with the person that wants to protect his constitution. dr. ron paul will be mr. obama in the election hands down. thank you for hearing my voice. host: let's look at a couple of other news stories in the paper today -- and other international story, this one focused on europe --

senhaux going on to the story about iran public ire -- then looking at this also related to iran in international

selection of "the new york times" -- then one more story that comes in "the financial times" -- the developing story there. let's go on to one last story in the news. this is about the supreme --

supreme court justices considering sec power to monitor the air waves. robert barnes reports for "the washington post" -- a question for you this morning is what you think about the new hampshire primary results. let's go to sacramento, california. wesley on the democrats' line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i am a retired marine. 32 years. i have never seen so many poor people, republican, democrat,

particularly republicans and some independents voting for these republicans. it blows my mind. barack obama has tried his best to get the country on good footing -- host: what do you think the biggest issues are for you as of a voter? caller: i would like to see them talk about how to bring the country together. how to get more jobs become available. barack obama as jobs plan that were shut down. all of these republicans talk about is taking the country back to the way it was in the good old days. i am 71-years-old, and the good old days were not that good to me. host: independent line.

good morning. caller: i think i can wait and finally. i have been hearing a lot. people in the primary states should be forced to listen to one on one voters from states where the front runners or candidates have governed or lead or something like -- in our case, and it romney promised with the boy scout's honor -- i am a little nervous -- he promised it would not cost us more than 3.7 billion. when it finally got done, it was 14 billion, and no one wants to drive through oy/ -- drive through it. i did want to weigh in about new hampshire. i live 3 miles from the border.

i drive up there all the time. the media portrays new hampshire all wrong. there are a lot of shacks and trailer homes. people did not sit around and lunch counters well-dressed all day. i just feel like we're not getting the proper picture to be able to make a decision. i vote for ralph nader. i just have to vote my conscience. and my vote does not count any way. i know my vote will be democrats, and i do not to worry. it does not matter. that is all i have to say. thank you. new orleans go to

where charlie joins us on the republican line. caller: the republican party is about white people. welfare --talk about where fa host: you called in on the republican line come as a you are republican? caller: yes, i am republican. host: so are you concerned about that? caller: i am concerned about the racial profiling. [inaudible] thank you. host: if you are still with us, who do like the republican field? what do you think about some of the candidates that could not perform as well in the primary?

caller: well -- hello? i think mitt romney is going to win. host: you think mitt romney is going to win? caller: i think so. host: let's take a look at one of the speeches last night by a contender in the presidential campaign on the gop side. this time let's hear from newt gingrich. clip: this is up to of a long process. and having both been a historian a long time, you learn things. let me put in context where we are. we have an opportunity, i think, and to unify the country around a message of jobs, economic growth, and very dramatic programs.

after that opportunity is to reach out to everyone of every background that would rather have a paycheck in food stamps. to convince them that what ronald reagan did in the 1980's in greeted millions of new jobs, what we did when i was speaker in the 1990's in creating millions of new jobs can be done again. host: that was newt gingrich speaking last night in new hampshire. he came in fourth in the breakdown of how the voting turned out of the primary. mitt romney capture the most votes with 39 percent said. that is over 95,000 votes. ron paul came in second with 23%. jon huntsman, 17 percent signed. newt gingrich and rick santorum both down at 9 percent signed. -- 9%. our question for you this morning is what you think about the new hampshire primary results. let's go to the next call in-

park, illinois. steve of the democrats' line. caller: think you for taking my call. i would like to take -- ask people to take a common sense look at what has been discussed. regulation, abortion, welfare and health care. i ask people, go to your internet and google water quality and rivers in china, and you will see how polluted the water is in china. can you a imagine america without regulation of companies , what our water and air what look like? we need regulation. however, mitt romney is totally against regulation. no. two, abortion. do we want to go back to the back room surgery's of the

1960's and 1970's where women were dying because they were not allowed to have a simple, quick surgical procedure? no, women must rise up against this and say no to republicans. and then you just have a calller talking about how the democrats are for welfare. i have studied the talks policies -- tax policies of george bush from 2001-2012. they extended the bush tax cut. more than half of the tax cuts went to the top half. host: you brought up a couple of issues and topics. the question is, what are voters really interested in? "the new york times" look at

that very question with voters in new hampshire and iowa. on january 3 in iowa, you can see the top issues here. the top issue of iowa, 42% of voters said it was the top issue. in new hampshire, the top issue of the federal budget deficit, in iowa 34 percent said that was the number one concern. in new hampshire, 24 percent said that was their biggest focus. abortion is the top issue. 13% said that was their biggest concern. 6% of new hampshire said that was their main focus. manchester, new hampshire. doug on the independent line. welcome. caller: hello. i just want to say mitt romney and barack obama are basically the same candidate. host: did you vote yesterday?

caller: i voted for ron paul. he is the only one that can be obama. mayor ronnie cannot beat barack obama. they're basically the same party. host: tell us about your voting record. were you registered as an independent before this year? caller: i am undeclared. host: you decided to wait in yesterday because of your support for ron paul? caller: yes, he is the only one that can win. the two private companies run this government, and there will be no change in that way. host: 4 lauderdale, florida. joe, republican. good morning. caller: i have a comment about the idea that the democrats are for the poor and republicans are for the wealthy. it was president obama who signed a bill would he extended

the tax cut that increased the amount that an individual could transfer tax-free to any number of people from 13,000 2 $5 million. that was from to that is the beloved-2012. -- that was from 2011-2012. that means millionaires could transfer to each of their children 10 million last year and another 10 million this year. it looks to me like president obama has taken care of the top 1 percent said first. that is his base as far as getting funding. it appears to me disingenuous to say he is worried about the masses, when he is protecting wealthy. wealth uber

those people who of transferring their wealth will put them into annuities for their children. the money is not going to be there. that's my impression. host: will hear from tavis smiley later in the program talking about the poor and whether they are getting any air time in the political debate. we have a comment on twitter. "the let's look at washington post." stopping mitt romney. candidates look to south

carolina.

host: michael is in alabama on our independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i cannot believe the republican party is going to vote for president obama twin brother, mitt romney. the only difference among them is their color. iran will never bomb israel because they blew up the muslim holy site. nobody ever talks about this. there is no way that iran would drop a nuclear bomb on israel. host: ricky in baltimore. caller: good morning. speech, hent obama's

made it clear that things would get worse before things got better. people didn't realize how bad a situation that ronald reagan and george bush put as ain. he was one of the worst presidents that we ever had. we'll know that barack obama is a guy who never shows his cards. do you think he is worried about any of those candidates? you are sadly mistaken. host: i mentioned an article about newt gingrich and rick santorum having a goal of stopping mitt romney. we will look more into the peaciece.

host: let's listen to comments that rick santorum made about the campaign. clip: we're not going to go out and deliver a message of the basic structure and the foundation of our counter, opportunity -- we will do so, understanding that with faith in the american people, we can not only wipe out this deficit come we can not only rebuild this economy, we can not only have a strong america that stands up for the values that i talked about, but we can do so in a huge victory that will rally this country to take on the great challenges that we have before us. host: rick santorum in new hampshire. let's look get a story from "the

washington post." this is how conservatives are looking at the race. host: naples, florida, a

republican caller about the new hampshire primary. the race will be going to florida later this month. caller: i have a short and comment. based on the fact that i was watching a program where -- women spent $100 billion on clothing last year, 2011. all the money that the woman in those countries spent last year it would take1,50, 1,500 years to pay off the national debt. that is what i have to say. come on down.

the weather is beautiful. host: are you getting knocks on the door about the campaign? caller: not any yet. host: valerie. caller: thank you for taking my call. i heard u.s. earlier what people wanted to see. i'm all for people making money. i do not think it is great the you get money at the cost of someone else and you complain that the economy is bad. people are not working for a variety of reasons. as far as the special interests, i like what buddy roemer said. i know he is not at the top. i like what he said and how we said it -- giving america back

to americans. i think that is important. we need to look at the things that are keeping us from getting where we want to be. host: why do you think he would perform better in the political season? caller: i do not think he has the backing that the needs. i think his ideas are good. he does not attack people and stays to the issues. i like what newt gingrich said about social security. i think that is important we do not take things away from our elderly. i do not think social security belongs where keeps getting cut. there are things that different people have said that i have liked but i have not liked of

things in their plans. buddy roemer was one of my favorites. i hope he gets back in it. i was a democrat. i did not like the penalty phase on obamacare. i thought that it would be more harmful to people in lower class is then it would be to anyone else because people would have -- people who have money or have insurance. host: michigan, good morning. turn down your tv so we can hear you please. gore right ahead -- go right ahead. caller: i never voted for obama. all he has done is spend more money going golfing and taking

trips that were unnecessary. would take care of itself. he just went back to work this past monday and i hope it continues. i am a christian. i believe these abortions are not called for. host: well-defined your vote -- what will define your vote? caller: these wars -- there are always going to be wars. there is never -- they are never going to be stopped. host: we have some comments on our facebook page.

look to c-span and you can see the full video of mitt romney's speech last night. host: independent line in a recovery puerto rico. caller: every time i hear mitt romney supporter, every time they say why they supported, it sounds like they just repeat cliches. he has the best chance against obama. democrats would vote for ron paul. i have align myself with the democratic party.

i would like to think democrats would vote for ron paul if he got to the point. that's pretty much it. host: thank you for all of your calls. we'll take a quick break and come back and talk with rich lowry about the 2012 race. >> chris matthews. clip: second debate. nixon gets control of it. he brings the temperature of the room down to 40 degrees. it is like a meat locker. he finds the guy who was the thermostat. he says, let me turn up to 65 or 70, or i am calling the police.

they got back up. they did not want nixon to sliweat. they said, we are not going to let this happen again. >> this weekend, sam donaldson interviews chris matthews on his new book on saturday night on c- span2. "washington journal" continues. host: rich lowry joins us. he's the editor for "national review." mitt romney was expected to win. how did the rest of the pack prevail? guest: a solid victory by mitt romney by any measure.

he won against all groups. jhhe won a crushing victory amog republicans. this is his home territory. it worked. now he goes into south carolina in a strong position not just because he won or tied in iowa and then won new hampshire, but because of the fractured nature of the opposition. i was hoping rick santorum would do much better last night. i thought he would bump up into high double digits. he was in the low double digits after the polls after iowa. his momentum was checked.

maybe some of the press coverage he got in his town halls when he was engaged in long dialogues about gay marriage which reinforced the image that the over emphasizes those kind of issues. he finished tied for fourth. that makes it harder for him to make a case that he is the dominant non-romney. two are really fundamentally wounded but can still take votes. one is rick perry. some are saying if the estate metrics for the debate, he would not qualify. he was at 5% in the polls. newt gingrich is still holding up in the south carolina polls but made himself radioactive by the hour. maybe these anti-bain attacks

hurt romney. i think they are hurting newt gingrich and in looks like he is on a suicide mission. host: our guest rich lowry wrote a piece yesterday in "national review." what advice would you give him? guest: i do not know if i have good advice for this problem. i said in that column that he's the only candidate who is running a presidential campaign. there was an event in exeter that felt like a real, serious candidate for president. it was well produced and the crowd was big. it was in a gym.

there was a huge american flag. and that mitt romney gives a speech that was just complete schmaltz, substance-less. chris christie was the one who connected with the crowd. i do not think mitt romney will be able to excite people. i think he will be the weak front-runner, whose weakness will be trumped by the weakness of the rest of the field if the does indeed win. host: rich lowry, editor of "national review." mitt romney -- the headline,

"mitt by a mile." you can see a teleprompter. you're saying he seemed more presidential, using the tools and the trappings that happen when you turn it into president or more serious presidential candidate. does that help him? guest: the most important ingredient is the teleprompter. that was a pretty good speech last night. it was much better than the iowa speech. they realize that we will not have not won yet, - so mitt romney gave a version of his stump speech. he gave it in a manner that was

underwhelming. he was better last night. he talked about the state of the economy and do we want to move in a more european direction or not. then he had one shot at his rival, although he did not name any of them as desperate republicans who are adopting the divisive rhetoric about the nature of the free market and the nature of capitalism. i think there was a pretty effective shot at newt gingrich and rick perry. perhaps this will be by circumstance a more ideological election then you would have expected between president obama and mitt romney if he does get the nomination because mitt romney will be pushed into a more philosophical defense of

how the market works and of couple was because of these attacks on his prior business work. host: rose marie in michigan, good morning. caller: good morning. the reason that it round connected by the 25% mark is because he keeps saying that the and heent is not laive does not understand the economy, and that is why our national debt, and he does not understand what the national debt is destructive to our country. i believe that we should call a spade a spade. president obama is not stupid or ignorant. he knows exactly what he's doing. that is why i don't think mitt romney will make it.

i don't think he will get past 25% and chris christie does. chris christie calls a spade a spade. ist: mitt romney's message taylor to a general election message in such a way that he thinks would appeal to the middle. he does not think he has evil intentions. a characteristic line is that he is a nice guy but he is over his head. on the 24% threshold, that is a great cliche of a political analysis. south carolina, in the early polls, he is above 25%. i don't think that is a ceiling on mitt romney.

if all the other candidates exited except mitt romney or newt gingrich, do we think it would be 75% mitt romney and 25% newt gingrich? host: eric from nebraska, welcome. caller: thank you. i just wanted to say that we need to come together as one party and we need to vote for obama in the congressional seat because with those democrats in the seats, we can actually get things done, and we can get bills that obama is trying to get past past. we have not been doing that for

the past four years. host: go ahead, what do you think? our caller is asking for cooperation, but can eric se e that? newt gingrich was saying you elected a republican house and republican senate and me as president, we will get something done. guest: i think the caller is making a case for a unified democratic government which we have for the first two years. the democratic past an agenda which was unpopular with the american people. they passed a stimulus that did not work. we basically tried that. case will be ifs

you want something to happen in washington and you want a common sense reform agenda to pass, let the republicans elect a president -- a republican president and give us a chance. if president obama wins and is still left a republican house and senate, you'll be in for the kind of partisan trench warfare that has turned off the public over the past year or so. host: republican from cleveland, sheila. caller: good morning. i'm talking about housing. we'll need shelter and jobs. obama has tried to pit the rich against the poor, which is ridiculous, because most of the

people of congress are rich. it is terrible that he has done this. people work hard, a lot of people. i sold houses 27 years. it is terrible what has gone on in the housing market. host: go ahead. callerguest: sorry. i think the caller is right about what president obama has been doing in terms of blaming the rich. it is so terrible to get rich in this country. why do former obama officials go out and get rich? are they contributing to inequality? peter was i going to work at citibank and making two or $3 million a year, whatever it is

-- peter orszag. i think people cannot live up to their ideals. in kansasent's speech was shameful. it posited a connection between income and equality and a lack of mobility in this country. there is no evidence of that whatsoever. if someone gets rich on wall street, that has nothing to do with struggles of people further down the income ladder. that has more to do with high incarceration rates and family breakdown. this is fundamentally dishonest, the case he is making to the american public. i believe it is cynical. he needs someone to blame for

his own failures in office. host: what do you think about the influence of the tea party in general? guest: i think it is extremely influential. there is not one dog for the tea party to back. the conservatives are divided up. a lot of tea party folks want to win this election. newt gingrich won tea party voters up in new hampshire. it doesn't mean that the tea party is unimportant or fundamentally diminished in this influence. host: reggie is a democrats. caller: i'm calling from wisconsin.

nice talking to you. i was surprised when i watched the show and i would read on the internet the passionate support that ron paul has. i'm only 22 years old and have voted democrat, but he seemed to make a genuine connection with the younger crowd. i'm surprised he sticks around in the republican party. i feel that if ron paul's name was on the ballot, i would have a good chance of voting for him. he stays consistent with his message. i don't agree with all of his policies. i see him stick to his views and i have a lot of respect for him. back in 2008 i just turned 18.

i voted for obama based on his campaign of change. i am not 100% disappointed because i do feel he tried. i cannot fault him for getting as far as he promised. i can see that most people are disappointed. i am impressed with the support that ron paul gets from the younger generation. paul let's look at how ron did in new hampshire. 30 and above, romney was the one with the most votes. ron paul is not too far behind romney in the 30 to 44 age bracket. the caller is right.

you want to convert those voters to republicans. i am not sure how inclined those voters are to the republican party outside of ron paul. i think we will see that he will stay in this race to the end. he has proven he can get about 20% of the vote, maybe more if he is just running against romney at the end. i think he will want to use his delegates at the platform -- at the convention. i think he will say, if you want to keep me inside the tent, you have to give me something or will ruin your chances to win this election and i will reelect president obama. he left that threat out there

over the weekend. host: why is the resonating with younger voters and the independent bloc? guest: i think a lot of it is a foreign-policy and his stringent opposition to wars and any involvement overseas. i think that is a juvenile world view. i don't think any president could adopt it without making us weaker. his anti-establishment credentials. nobody has better anti establishment credentials when there is a deep distrust of our political institutions. he is an idealist. he planted his flag in the ground regardless of poland and political support and said i

will rally -- regardless of polling and political support. i would be remiss not to point out just how shameful those newsletters were that he published where there was racist material written under his name. his response to that has been thoroughly dishonest. he said he was not aware of that material. that material was going out under your name and you were making a lot of money. everyone surmises that a friend of his wrote it. he could ask his friend whether he wrote it or not. that is a real mark against ron paul. i was hoping it would hurt him more. host: independent line from new

jersey, welcome. caller: laryngitis. we the people. the only one of the republicans is jon huntsman. jon huntsman went overseas in china on a democratic presidency. not obama but the presidency -- not obama. never attacked the presidency. he said he's doing this for his country, america. he has two sons in the navy. under a democratic presidency. plus, he has more experience in

foreign affairs than all these guys put together. he is thinking about the country. the other items like abortion -- emphasizing all the things that politically -- we keep separate ourselves into little factions where we never get it right. host: could jon huntsman be a you nit uniter? guest: that is his pitch. i commend the caller for calling in with laryngitis. i don't think it is going anywhere. he has had a marketing problem from the beginning. he had a conservative platform. george will said it was the

most conservative platform of any of the candidates. maybe republicans show throughout the race and that was his marketing strategy with an eye to new hampshire and winning independence and he won a fair number of independents and democrats in new hampshire. so he was there six months and won a pretty weak third. at that pace, it would take about 25 years to run. he is going down to south carolina, and much more conservative state. i think it is over but he is not recognized it. host: rich lowry is the editor of "national review." he has been there since 1992 and

has been editor since 1997. guest: it is net 20 years until the fall -- it is not 20 years until the fall. host: howard is next. caller: good morning. your call is published in our local paper and i enjoy -- your column is published. guest: you have discerning editors. caller: i had below conversation with the editorial board of the paper and should i need to read more and i got him on there. guest: good for you. he is one of the best columnists in the country. caller: i think the republicans

have 1/3 of the puzzle put together working on the presidency and i look forward to rob a republican elected president. i am in the deep weeds in california and it is difficulty. we have 55 electoral votes. there is enough sense in the country overall to defeat this president. it is not like the leader of the republicans and senate -- it is not that we hate obama. what would disagree with is his social policies and we can enumerate them for days.

i think middle america will come together. my question is, what is your sense for taking over the senate? once we have the house and the senate and a republican president, working together with the house, who is in charge of the money? nott: i have to admit, i've studied this closely. the conventional wisdom is better than 50/50. it is better to focus on the senate as an insurance policy if president obama is some doubt reelected. -- if president obama is somehow reelected. harry reid has adopted a strategy of basically doing nothing, not even trying to do

anything. they did not pass a budget out of the son of for-- out of the senate for 900 days or whatever it has been. the argument that congress is doing nothing -- this is a cynical strategy of the part of harry reid. nothing would delighted me more than to see him lose his job. host: thank you for being here. guest: thank you for having me. host: we have a news update. >> president obama hosts a jobs forum at the white house. companies taking part include

ford, intel, dupont, and siemens. you could hear live coverage at 12:30. the president travels to chicago attending three fund- raisers. european governments continue working on a way out of their debt crisis. hungary is being threatened by sanctions for allegedly taking no effective action to contain its deficit. hungry made its deficit target by taking one time measures -- hungary. they are expected to do the same this year. maker hostess brands is filing for bankruptcy protection. those of some of the latest headlines on c-span radio.

clip: you all know the basic statistics. broadcast television has gone down from $50 million to about 25 million viewers today. it is difficult to communicate any kind of a message to the public. slogans -- this is one of the truths that i've learned. you cannot beat details. if you run the details part of the issue, you will lose. clip: tony blankley died this week.

his more than 40 c-span appearances are searchable online at the c-span video library. matthews.is clip: the second debate. need to get control of its -- nixon gets control. he brings the temperature of the room down to 40 degrees. he goes down in the basement. guy standingixon d next to the thermostat. they had a standoff and what about compromising on the temperature. they did not want nixon to sweat.

they all knew what was going on. this kind of stuff is going on. clip: sam donaldson interviews chris matthews on his new book saturday night on c-span2 book tv. "washington journal" continues. host: our guests are tavis smiley and cornel west. guest: nice to be here. host: i want to talk to about your symposium coming up called "remaking america: from poverty to prosperity." you talk about how the word "poor" or "poverty" are words that have not come up bunch. guest: the word does not come up one time. "poverty" does not

come up one time. there is an arrangement for " poverty" not to be discussed. that was four years ago. the number of pork in this country are abysmal -- the number of poor. they keep climbing. the new poor of the former middle class. i do not know who they are going to speak to. we cannot go through this campaign not addressing the concern of the poor. it is the telling of truth that allow the suffering to speak. we have to address the angst of

the poor. host: reflect on the new hampshire primary and what you heard talked about and debated and we took away from the results. guest: i think we see concerned about fears and anxiety as it relates to social anxiety and a little concerned about poor people. we see the big money and little concern -- 50% of americans live in or near poverty. we believe poor people are is precious and prices as investment bankers and pharmacists and professors. guest: you said there is a complicit agreement not to talk about the issue of poverty. is it as simple as poor people may not vote as much? guest: if the new poor of the

middle class, that is why politicians want to speak to the angst of middle class. it is that poor people do not matter. there is what seems to be a bipartisan agreement -- a part partisan consensus that the poor do not matter. two-minute spineless and milquetoast -- too many spineless and milquetoast candidates. whether it is mitt romney or newt gingrich, this verbal assault of words being waged on the poor -- that is not the

answer to the prayer. there's a consensus in this town that the poor do not matter. host: let's look at the numbers. guest: those numbers do not count the many citizens who have given up looking for jobs or part-time workers. it is much higher than that. the issue of poverty is a matter same waynal security, semi ir that iraq and afghanistan is. it is sad we cannot shift away

from the park crafts at the top with their big money -- away from the poor credits -- plurocrats. poor people are losing their homes and their jobs. children can hardly get it limelight in a democratic society. host: here are the numbers to call if you want to join the conversation. democrats, 202-737-0001. republicans, 202-737-0002. independents, 202-628-0205. this event, "remaking america: from poverty to prosperity," will be at george washington university and broadcast live on c-span on thursday, january 12. what brings people together?

guest: we're pushing the issue of poverty higher up on the american agenda. i did not want to do a campaign for the white house when we do not get traction on this issue. we got on the bus and traveled around the country and trying to put a spot on the port in this country -- on the poor in this country. this is the next step, to bring these poverty expert together and talk about how we can not just reduce poverty but to eradicate poverty. when we bring these voices together, the drumbeat gets louder. this drum beat musket ever louder between now and november.

i hope we can advance the conversation tomorrow night. in april, we're working on it new book, a party manifesto that will be out in april. we're trying to use the platform to get this issue discussed. host: janet from baltimore, maryland. caller: i like to ask the question to tavis smiley and cornel west. what do they think president obama is doing? he is doing all he can to get jobs created. i don't understand the concept. host: do not see that is happening, that the president is trying to work towards helping the poor? guest: you begin your campaign and give nearly $1 trillion to

investment bankers. that's not a good start in terms of fighting for the poor. in the last few months, he has given some good speeches about jobs. we applausd that. he has been fighting for the payroll tax cut. we applaud that. that is not a substitute for a massive job creation and housing and jobs with a living wage. we applaud the president when the president does the right thing. the president -- you have tim geithner running things. tim geithner is not a fighter for the poor. i hear people saying obama is better than the republicans, but

he is more work to do to fight against poverty. guest: people act in this election like there are two choices. either obama or mr. romney. there's a third choice and that's a better president obama. just because somebody is trying are doing x, y, or z, that they cannot be pushed to do better. offer them ideas or suggestions but to push them to be better at what they do. this is not demonizing the president. this is pushing him to have more spine and more backbone. this is not just a critique of president obama. there is a bipartisan consensus that the poor do not matter.

everybody in this town has to do better about making poverty a priority. poverty is not a priority. host: president obama is hosting a white house jobs forum today. he is calling a in forcing -- in-sourcing american jobs. is that touching on your message and helping out? guest: he has been giving a lot of great speeches and making the kind of moves that you would expect from a politician that wants to get elected. this is what house has capitulated and caved on too many things. it does not extend the unemployment benefits or close a

single loophole. you get these kinds of -- the president can be a bit schizophrenic. respectfully, i want to push the president to make poor people a priority. this issue gets sustained on the american agenda. those in the media used the platforms to challenge folks about how we will eradicate poverty. keeping the issue front and center. host: david in lincoln, virginia. caller: arlington, virginia. i thank the gentleman for bringing this to the forefront. there will always be some people

that do not want to change their situation. some people will not put forth the effort. if we want real poverty, i spent time in afghanistan. there are some people with real poverty. people of a warped sense of what it means to not have anything. i hear you saying that we need the government to stepped up. the government has been fighting this since the great society and it continues to get worse. i did not trust them. the dissolution of the family unit is what it is. we have to start with the building block of a society. people are less less-- it's just

repeats itself. guest: i think mike republican brother makes a good point in terms of the central role of the family. it is difficult to keep your family together when you don't have a job or use of bullets flying for your housing project. it has to do with structures and institutions. workers are pushed out like these private equity companies in relation to brother romney. push out the workers. the workers are dealing with foreclosure and unemployment. individual responsibility is very important. we have to do with a massive transfer of wealth. policies tied to washington.

rich citizens getting even richer. host: we have a comment on twitter. guest: good question. there are the perennial poor in this country and the new poor and the near poor. we're talking about poverty now because the middle class is falling into the ranks of the poor. -- we'reking on the laying out specific ideas of what can be done to help the perennially poor. a quick comment about the last

caller. he mentioned afghanistan. we're spending countless millions rebuilding afghanistan, rebuilding iraq. we spend billions destroying these countries and then we come behind it with diplomacy, which includes spending billions more to rebuild these countries. if we could spend that kind of money on rebuilding americans cities, we could have a marshall plan where american cities -- something would be done with the poverty in this country. guest: we spent three under billion dollars since 1980 on jails -- we spent $300 billion.

when it comes to spending for the poor, we pull back. we have caramelized poverty. -- we have caramelized poverty -- criminalized poverty. caller: i have a comment. i am an educator. the amount of people that participate, a 85% unemployed and they were unable to get a job because of criminal backgrounds and credit history. many places where to go to apply for a job, they want a credit report done. i don't think president obama should be held accountable for

the low unemployment rate when employers are crucifying people for having passed criminal background and it could be something like a misdemeanor. if you're in the court system and considered guilty, that remains on your record for the rest of yourthey are being chasr paying their debt to society in spending five months to five years in society. you have paid your debt to society. when you come out and look for a job you are turned away because of your cabicredit history and past. guest: let me say very quickly that we agree with your assessment. too often the poor are demonized and penalized. the poor are treated in four

ways by our body politics. number two, this is why we have to have a robust and creative conversation about how to help the poor. the white house and other leaders want to beat up on the president, but the white house and other leaders can use the bully pulpit they have to talk about these issues. we were in a conversation last night about the fact that there are too many american employers like the ones you referenced will direct you on line these days to allow your application. once you get online they tell you if you are presently unemployed, do not apply. getre are people that go is not right. ar again, it is not about

demonizing or belittling the burden on president obama. it is about saying again that the republicans and democrats in this town, and on this campaign for the white house, the republican nominee and the democratic nominee have got to be respectfully and lovingly push to address the issues of the poor in this country. that is all we are san. is a veryis important point in which the criminal justice system imposes such major constraints on poor people gaining access to jobs and housing and other opportunities. what is upsetting also is the degree to which criminal behavior is not investigated and prosecuted, market manipulation, predatory lending. what do they do? they get jobs in washington in the white house and other places. they go back and forth, back and

forth. there has been criminal behavior on wall street that at this moment that has not been in any way as counted. host: i wanted to show this graphic, the number of children in poverty by race and ethnicity. you can see here different paths charted. you can see the numbers relatively low for whites in comparison. peeking up and going back down. now they are back up. 6.1 percent signed among latinos. 5.0% among whites. 4.4% among blacks. that is in terms of millions. guest: 40% of all black children. we need red. we will never forget our precious indigenous babies.

american indian party among young people is obscene. guest: we want to add to that chart, indiana university school of public and environmental affairs has a white paper that we commission that is out literally today, so we're happy to be on c-span talking about the new data and the most recent imports about party in america and what the great recession has done to the american people. there are couple points i want to highlight about this new report. we now know the younger you are in this country, the more likely you are to be in poverty. that is unacceptable. the younger you are, the more likely you are to be in poverty. number two, we know we have the largest ever, the most significant number of americans who have been long-term unemployed than at any point in this nation's history. we did not collect the data

since 1948. perhaps most damning about this report is the fact that even as the economy starts to experience some sort of an uptick -- there has been debate lately about what the december jobs numbers mean, or is this a trend to something better -- i know all of us are hoping towards a trend. the point is even when this economy starts to uptick, the are goingthe poroor to grow. because of the pace of the recovery. because of a long-term unemployment, and because of the high rates of unemployment. even when the economy starts to uptick, the numbers indicate the poor will still grow. guest: we have what we called jobless recovery. what is the criteria of a recovery?

what are we talking about? just the language itself needs to be reexamined in the constructed. host: let's look at details from the new white paper out. among the bullet points, the findings of this paper by indiana university -- you just mentioned a hard time young people are having here yen ge. guest: that is why so many young people joined occupied movement. they understand their future is not so bright. we say all the time that

something is wrong with a country that forces their children to surrender their life chances before they ever know their life choices. that is where america is right now. host: democratic calller from maryland joining us. caller: good morning. mr. west, you are my hero. i look at things like this -- they say they blame things on the president because of the job situation and certain things. one thing you have to realize is no one is holding a gun to your head to not hire people. if you have the money and there ain't no problems hiring people, you have made money. that is obvious. the richer even richer and the poor are even poorer. look at the situation.

if ewing got money, you ain't got nothing in this country. this was by design. i have never win -- been one to hand out. i want to hand up. am't keep telling me i brainwashed by the democratic party. and i am not brainwashed by no one. i am a man that stand on my own 2 feet. that is why i choose to i want as the president. -- who i want as president. you have to keep the president's speech to the fire. you have to push him. he has to have the extra hand up with a stronger backbone. people think because he is fair skinned then he is not that bad.

you know how things go when they talk about it your skin is fair, you are not such a threat. people have to understand, and all you have to look it is -- how urban places that use to be dominated by blacks where the crime rate was so high. now you go down there and see how it as changed in the crime rate is down, because that is a part they wanted to go through. look at the difference for blocks of the street where they are still selling drugs. do not tell me you cannot control drugs in this country. host: that is a lot of points. guest: when he talks about the fact that too many american employers are not hiring people -- he is right about that.

we know companies can do better. we know more jobs are being shipped abroad by these companies to make more profits here at home. we know that these companies nowadays, and some could argue and we are debating in this new book, we are debating whether the economy will ever recover in the way we think it should. primarily because these most rigid national companies understand they can do just as much with us. -- primarily because these multinational companies understand they can do just as much with less. the demand for the product is so great, they have to put more people on the line to make it happen is the only reason. other than that, they want to squeeze out more profits for shareholders. there is no competitive reasons for folks to hire people. here is what we're talking about. we bailed out wall street, and

the very people we bailed out are now sitting on a trillion dollars it will not turn around and invest into the economy to hire people. if the media and those of us that have platforms do not raise these issues, how did these issues get addressed? host: that is why i think those that have the courage to raise these issues. -- guest: that is why i think those that have the courage to raise these issues. do not let anybody convince you you are only a collection of interests. we have principles. there are certain things called andintegrity, a memory. a person is not a nobody because they have no money. they may have more love and joy and integrity and spiritual mobility san a rich person who is empty in his soul. this is very important. we talk about martin luther king

jr. next week. we talk about dorothy day. they taught us there are certain things about human life better not reducible to market calculation. there are human values that are not reducible to market price. all we talk about is money, money and power and power. that is the road to spiritual emptiness. there has to be more than that. i know the brother understand. when you look at barack obama, we vote for interest and principal. the reason why barack obama is better than republicans is because we have principles. the reason why we criticize him is because we of principles. if all we have is interest in not principles, we are reduced to a animalistic calculation about interest on interest, interest. is that all life is about? how empty to go to the grave

about. host: when you talked about holding the president speak to the fire. twitter --s iwrites in on the centralis question. they are scared. and they do not want to be unpopular. we are not committed deep enough to our long-term principles. it is our short-term consideration. i think this white house is -- does not like being critiqued. they are very temperamental about that. what happens is, and this last calller was right, there is no doubt about the fact that the president has a vicious head

when he is running up against every day. what he needs is a tail wind. he needs us to get behind him and push him. group presidents are not born, they are made. they need a tail wind to push them into greatness. there is no abraham lincoln without douglas pushing him. great presidents have got to be pushed into their greatness. we know obama has a head wind, and ugly, nasty strong gale force headwind. he needs a tail wind. the white house needs to understand this tail wind is not to disrupt your flow, it is to help you get to give you some velocity. host: the last time you appeared, you said before the 2008 election, senator obama appeared on your show record week came on to talk, but since then you have not been invited

to the white house, nor has the president agreed to appear on your program. guest: i am afraid to even answer that question. the last time i sat at this table -- i did not say anything. i was asked a question by c- span, have you interviewed the president? the next a headline -- "smiley whines about the fact he was not in the white house." i know full well whether or not i had been invited to the white house. nothing has changed. with regard to be invited to the white house, with regards to the interview request. he continues to talk to everybody else but us. someone will take this comment out of context again pure yen

. host: recently you said this in "washington post" -- he is long interviews with brother bill o'reilly. i think from the left of there is a reluctance. in general this administration has been reluctant to engage the joseph stieglitz. let me tell you this, brother tavis smiley in michelle obama were selected among the top 100 people in the world. we saw her in new york. she was lovely, kind, sweet. we know she was brilliant. that was not obama verses others in that sense. the show reaches out and will hug. she has always been kind in that

regard. she has criticism of us, and that is fine, but she does reach out in that sense. if she is reaching out on behalf of the president, then there's been some connection of the obama family. but the president himself -- you start hanging around with rahm emanuel -- these folks push you in some certain direction. you are affected by who you spend time with. int: let's hear from john new york. turn down your tv. caller: how are you doing? brothers.your all the only way we will get the economy back together is a we get back the industry. we have to bring back manufacturing companies.

when we were doing the manufacturing thing, we had a lot of jobs. all the manufacturing plants were going north. because our manufacturing jobs, we have these jobs available. the people's standard of living was a lot higher. we notice all the schemes behind-the-scenes that manipulate the legitimate government of the people. we have to really take a look at that. nobody is talking about that. but obama we have a lot of h ope in him. i hate and distrust in government somewhat because of the secret associations that these pollutants figures have. host: and next year went to talk about an article in the atlantic

called making it in america. it is about keeping jobs here and why they're here versus going overseas. guest: he is right. this country has lost its place as the leading manufacturer. it is a couple of things. as i have said the the issue, it is the greedy american corporations to find it cheaper to do it and other places around the world. look at the epicenter of so much of what is wrong with this company -- country. number two, it comes back to poverty and why we're doing what we're doing and why the conversation tomorrow night is so important. we have to push our leaders. if they're going to get away with all of this, at the very least the government has got to have an aggressive robust job training -- job retraining

program. you have to retrain the american workers to have more jobs. something is wrong with this country when military veterans are more likely to be unemployed. i want to get that out there, because if we cannot do right by them and find ways to retrain them and put them into the work force, there is no hope for the rest of us. we heard from so many veterans that are down and out. we heard from them that they uphold their indivisibility, but have not given up. that is what is a wonderful about it. so many say they still have a sense of humanity, resiliency. you may see them on the streets down and out, but they are clever in terms of how they

survive. most are not involved in criminal activity. all they want is just a chance. that actually was inspiring. host: our guests are dr. cornell west, and tavis smiley the co- host together the radio show. they're having an event tomorrow, remaking america. that will be a george washington university and broadcast live here on c-span. it will be rebroadcast on pbs for three nights starting on january 16. other guests include the gentleman joining me now. susie old men, michael moore, jeffrey sacks and others will be guests. that is tomorrow night here on c-span at 8:30. thank you for coming in and talking to us.

coming up next, we will talk more about manufacturing and jobs and story in 'th"the atlantic." pakistan the official says the prime minister has fired the defense secretary because of misconduct related to a memo sent to washington. the senior military official tells us of tension between pakistan be in the military government is very serious. meanwhile, an american droned strike killed for american assistance and pakistan today. this is the first such attack. the attack took place in northwest era stand. -- iristan. iran says one of its scientists working on the nuclear program has been killed by a car bomb. it was planted by assailants that were on m motorcycle.

the latest that is likely to increase accusations of a covert plan by the west. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> if we begin now, to match our policy with our ideals, that i believe it is possible to come to admires the country not simply because we were born here, but because of the kinds of great and good land that you and i wanted to be and that together we have made it appear yen that is my hope, that is my reason for seeking the presidency of the united states. >> we look back at 40 men who ran for the office and lost. good to our website c-span.org/ the contenders to see video of the contenders the have a lasting impact on american politics. >> the leader of this nation has a clear and immediate challenge

to go to work effectively and immediately to restore proper respect for law and order in this land, and not just prior to election day either. >> these young people when they get out of this wonderful university will have difficulty finding a job. we have to clean this mess up and pass on the american dream to them. >> go to our website c- span.org/the contenders. >> in this episode we're going to take a look at rick carey's surprising comments on climate change in the scientists behind the research. >> what i do is reach different comments by politicians on a 1-4 scale. if you say something really outrageous that is really inaccurate you will get for pinocchio's. if you say something a little

misleading, you might get one of pinocchio. >> glenn kessler evaluate the effectiveness of the little leaders -- political leaders and others. and glenn kessler said the t "q&a". sees fancspan's host: james bennet, thank you for being here. wanted to talk to you about the cover of "the atlantic" -- said reported this piece for you. where did he go? guest: we have been trying various ways to get our hands

around the way the economy is changing, not just since the crash, but it has revealed a lot of long-term structural changes in the economy, including the rise of the global league, the rise of women in the work force. what we really wanted to address here is what has happened to manufacturing in american economy. and was also the great factory of the american middle class. we have been talking to adam davidson about collaborating. they are wonderful story tellers and terrific at explaining complex economic ideas. >host: tell us about project money. and they are doing a story on npr. guest: it is a national public radio program focused on business generally in the economy. they do a great job of finding a

very tangible accessible illustrations of often complicated, intricate economic forces and development. adam davidson, who is the founder and coated-rigid code- editor had gotten very interested in trying to get his hands around the question of what has happened to american manufacturing and particularly in the strongest -- interested in the interstate 80 corridor where there has actually been a renaissance of of baxter -- american manufacturing. at the same time a new form of manufacturing, which our piece is really about. to be more specific, what i mean is the old textile mills, which powered the economy, particularly in south carolina, which is where adam ended up spending his time and relied on

largely provided seemingly limitless jobs for high school dropouts who could get a good wage and lifetime employment in the textile mills. that work went away. and you kind of manufacturing is replaced. talk was about who gets the job and what kind of lifestyle that can afford. who are we talking about? guest: it is a mix. there are two tiers of workers. there are still some unskilled workers, although fewer and fewer of them. then there is a much more highly-skilled worker who is somebody who understands the computer languages that control these machines. if i could back up half a step here, what has happened is a lot of people think a minimum --

american manufacturing has simply collapsed. it is not actually true. we are still the no. 1 or no. 2 manufacturing in the world. manufacturing output in the u.s. has grown by a third over the course of the last 10 years. what has changed, and where the crisis is is manufacturing employment. look at the history in the u.s., and there was basically steady growth from the great depression forward until the early 1980's when it dipped slightly. then it was fairly stable until about 10 years ago when it falls off a cliff. over the past of the 10 years we have lost 6 million manufacturing jobs. at the same time output has been rising steadily. part of that story is the story of offshore.

another big part of the story is the rise of the machine. and the use of increasingly capable and flexible robot spurious. you still need workers in these factories. some of them who are skilled and capable of managing these machines. host: let's look at the peace adam davidson wrote --

the story looks at how different their lives are, how different their jobs are coming in what they do all day. guest: adam want that focusing on standard motor products that makes auto parts, replacement auto parts when your fuel injectors hill, when -- they supplied the part you could buy from a distributor. they make a lot of parts now in greenbelt, south carolina. it is the classic profile of a relatively low-skilled factory worker. she is 23-years-old. she has two kids. she's very candid in the piece about the mistake she has made in the thing she is done right.

she was an honors graduate of high school. she hoped to go on to college, but she had her first hit, and was able am lucky to land a job in this factory. she performs a very simple operation. it literally takes two minutes to train someone to do what maddy does. at the other end of this summer she is what they call the level one worker. she's basically stopped at that level for reasons we can talk about with very little prospect of advancing and taking on to hurt jobs by her -- her job by her fingernails. the risk to her is there is a machine that will come along that can do the job more cheaply. if the machine cost more then maddy does over the course of two years, they will replace her. the strike target is $100,000.

if the machine prize comes below that, they will no longer be that job. hopefully there will be another job for her. of the other end of the spectrum, global to employees, and adams spends a lot of time with one of them as well, have tremendous technical training. an unusual native intelligence. they are operating machines that in the early days were one person would operate one machine, and now you might operate several. they are doing complex tasks. in view injectors, which is what they are working on -- fuel injectors have to have a tremendous level of precision. two parts are separated by an

inch. you need someone who was monitoring these machines constantly to make sure they do not go off the rail. you could lose $25,000 in a few minutes by making the wrong kind apart. that takes a very high level of skill. >>host: this machine -- let's get to the phones and get some calls in for james bennet. we are talking about peace where we look at the weekly spotlight magazine series. let's go to kentucky. bill on the republican line. welcome. are you with us? caller: go right ahead.

and can you change your import /export tax laws for the country and get the work back in the country? then there will not be enough jobs to go around. it is training for something that you will not be enough work for to begin with. the import/export tax law has put us in the position. you can go back and check your import/export tax law and see what a difference it is. they pay like 3.5%, and we pay like 25 when we export. they need help in these other countries. do not help them to the point where you destroy your own country.

guest: the calller makes a very good point. there are all sorts of issues surrounding trade and taxation that are part of this story, the story of globalization and subjecting american workers to unfair competition from overseas, and particularly the u.s. is in a bit of a standoff with china surrounding some of these issues. i do think you could fix all of that and this phenomenon would still take place, because it is being driven not just by globalization but technology. the city events of technology. -- the steady advance of

technology. a lot of farming has been mechanized. this is a sign of great progress. the steady increase in american productivity, a tremendous credit to american workers. but it is staking out a tremendous toll on the american middle class and opportunity in this country. about whatwas abouto us adam davidson reported. guest: this is what i find it -- really, i think adam did such a wonderful job with this piece because helped me understand what it is like every level of this company. and luke, and you luk

think here is this ambitious, smart, extremely hard-working women. you think why what the company invest in her education? take her off the line, send her to school? adam travels up through the company to the corner office and you understand why the decisions are being made in a really humane environment. everybody is under the same kind of pressure. it is a sign of what the american economy has become, this extremely ruthless and anxiety-creating machine for squeezing out inefficiency cy.ita it is a family-operated company. it is of 400 million-dollar player in this industry. it is now publicly traded.

they are being squeezed on all sides because they are realistically small, yet big customers are constantly demanding price reductions. at the same time, of the investors by law are supposed to be returning principal -- value to investors. if you begin reducing inefficiencies her, you are adding cost to the product. -- if you begin introducing inefficiencies, your adding cost to the product. back in headquarters, which is in queens, new york, this bill where until recently they still made parts, they are constantly asking the question, can we make this more cheaply?

if we can, can we make it cheaply in china, poland, or south carolina? almost to a surprising degree, the answer is often in the united states for various reasons we can discuss. it is a game of not just inches, but tens of millions of inches. it is where they think they can achieve a lower cost, and therefore a enough of a product margin to satisfy investors. host: "the atlantic" peiece -- tammy on theom democratic line in alexandria, virginia. you are on the program with james bennet. caller: i want to say i agree with the last calller that so many jobs can be regained, but

there will never be enough to go around again until we find out more industry in this country, what ever that baby. and i want to call in thank you for bringing the topic of the machine and more efficiency leading to fewer jobs in manufacturing. my job. a lot with for years i have seen the steel belt and the other shutdown of the cities and sadness it is to look at once was america, and the lack of transition in those areas, to the "new economy" available. my father felt the squeeze as early as 1983. he was working for a company in the glass business that was transitioning to plastic. he was fortunate yet a college indication. he was a regional representative. his entire job was to go from

factory to factory checking on the bottles after they arrived, and that job no longer exists because of machine can perform it at less cost. host: let's get a response from james bennet. guest: several interesting points and there. one, the impact of the unions and what has happened to blue- collar union workers in this country. one of the reasons this manufacturing boom, and again, it is an output boom more than hiring boom, is taking place in the south. it is a lot harder to organize workers down there. as a consequence, it is another way these companies lowered their costs and are able to compete internationally. it is causing a profound change

in the nature of the way we compensate manufacturing workers in this country. she talked about her father who had a college education, which makes a very big difference today and the ability of anyone to have worked in this economy. what has happened is this really profound change we are living through now -- where it used to be a big a margin for error in this country. you could make mistakes as a young person. you could drop out of school, and you could still find, particularly in the industrial midwest, a good paying work that would enable you to raise a family, by house, educate your kids. it created an escalator to the ms -- middle-class for tens of millions of americans.

that is breaking down now. , editor ofs bennet "the atlantic." he is the 14 editor of the magazine created back in 1847 to advance the american idea. he was named editor in 2006. prior to that he worked for "the new york times." he was also a white house correspondent. let's hear from the bill, republicans in florida. caller: good morning. and i wanted to talk about industrial towns. i have seen a documentary and the rule ofemp

law." it would be great if c-span and your magazine to do a report on it as far as putting american workers back to work, i encouraged the listeners to check into it. ralph nader wrote a piece recently a few months ago about it, and congressman ron paul has legislation out there trying to decriminalized this resources that could be grown in all 50 states and used to be grown in all 50 states. the whole reason why it was criminalize was because it was a threat to the petrochemical industry. any product you can make at a petrochemical you could make out of industrial hemp. i hope you folks report on it and ron paul efforts. that is why i called on republicans, because i have to

register to vote for ron paul here in florida as a republican. i look forward to the day when c-span does not have these different numbers. and that is a sign that the people have regained power. thank you very much. guest: the calller knows more about industrial hemp than i do. that is very interesting. thank you for the tip. it is the various ways we have been looking at, but not specific implications for manufacturing. it is going to be interesting to watch the republican candidates moving to south carolina today for the next primary. it will be interesting to watch how they talk about this set of questions in the sunlight industrialized south. they are right where adam was when he was reporting this

piece. obviously the economy is a huge issue in this campaign. host: let's look back at the story by adam david said. you mentioned there is the decision making process that companies go through when they decide to base a company here or overseas. let's read a little bit of this piece -- guest: it is interesting. it is not by any means a slim

down. in other words, you should do to china because labor costs are lower. there are all sorts of other cost of doing business as there. and advantages to doing business here. i will take one example, reliable electricity. and reliable sources of power generally. you want to be able to run these machines through the night often to maximize your output and efficiency with which you were using them iem. in areas of china, you cannot necessarily count on the power always being there, and it is just not worth taking the risk. the kinds of products -- the u.s. is particularly strong now and chemicals, heavy machinery, and complex manufacturing. one of the reasons is they are making relatively small batches

of complex parts. there are two important elements. one, complicated precision parts. another reason is they are relatively small batches and the the high degree of flexibility. you need to be able to change the machines over to adapt the machines to produce a different version of the party were already making. all of those things are easy to do with a highly-skilled workers that the u.s. has. it is another reason they often find themselves resisting moving overseas. now, all of this is very dynamic and changing in ways that are good and bad for us. the machines are getting cheaper. and that makes it easier to replace workers. at the same time, labor costs are beginning to rise in places like china. it might mean that the companies will move to bangladesh or vietnam.

they are constantly and evaluating all of these different variables at headquarters, at -- as they are at every major had quarter. the plant atw's full operation -- guest: it really is striking. in one of my old jobs i covered the u.s. auto industry for a couple of years in the mid 1990's, and the transition was taking place then in the factories. if you have not have -- if you have not had the experience of visiting a modern manufacturing facility, it is striking how few workers you see on the floor. host: the peace we're talking about is in "the atlantic" reported by adam davidson.

planet money stories will be airing on npr's morning edition on january 12 and 13 come out tomorrow and friday. adam davidson will talk about in a live chat at theatlantic.com. our guest, james bennet, is the editor. let's go to ohio. caller: hello. i love your magazine. i read the article, and i am very happy it was mentioned on c-span. coming from northeast ohio, and i spent a lot of time in southern california and arizona, but the thing i noticed is that because i came back to ohio, and

obviously manufacturing jobs are dying. this guy in florida talks about the creative class where they are rejuvenating cities and young people moving in. you know, rather than manufacturing make it a real city like san francisco. for the whole country, manufacturing jobs are down, and i think the whole idea of making america better again is all about rejuvenation. we will use apple as an example. steve jobs -- host: are talking about innovation or manufacturing? guest: it is interesting you mention that steve jobs. in my editor's notes introducing

this piece, i use the story of steve jobs as an example of how the country has changed. his father, paul jobs, who was really a hero of walter ices isaacson is biography of steve jobs. he wound up moving to california with his wife. what he was was a naturally- skilled machinist. he was able to get back to rework in the bay area. they were able to buy a house in the middle class community with a good school district that happen to be at the epicenter of the computer revolution. the house has a very famous attached garage in which steve jobs was launched apple computer. that technological revolution fortunede steve jobs' and the fortune of many other

people in created these products that we all love now is part of what has wiped out the middle class is own father followed. this is where the calller was going. what is going to replace that? how are you going to get a steve jobs without appall jobs? how will you get the kind of innovators, creative leaders we need without a steady middle- class foundation? -- how are you going to get a steve jobs without a paul jobs? the answer is education and training. we all know that. we are not doing a very good job of it right now in this country. so far in this presidential campaign, i do not think we're doing a very good job of talking about that seriously. host: let's hear from bobby in

texas, republican calller. good morning. caller: good morning. very interesting conversation. i have not read the article, but i have lived it. i worked at texas instruments in the 19th 80's and 1990's. we became not just a semiconductor manufacturer, but a calculator and computer manufacturer. one of my jobs was to about your weight whether to put something overseas or build it in the united states. you are hitting on almost all of the points. it is interesting to talk about steve jobs. they make the iphones overseas. they could easily make them here, they would just cost more. our productsme of overseas, but the new, innovative product that was going to change frequently at first we did not. we made it here because the engineers could the hands on.

-- could be hands-on. if it was a commodity-type product or want to make for many years, we might make it overseas. but if it was one we were going to change often it gradually shifted to where most all of the calculate calculators were made. it was a hard thing to deal with, because i was used to seeing production lines of 150 people building calculators. it went down to eight people building the same amount of calculators with the machines. it was very interesting. my main question was, can you tell -- can you give us some people rationale soc understand how many jobs we lost

because of what i just described as a proportion to losing jobs because the labor cost is low or overseas? 50 percent? 10 percent signed? what kind of number are we losing? -- 10%? guest: that is a great question, and i am embarrassed to say i would not want to put a number to it. i will try to insert it. i honestly just do not know. whole industries, as you know, have moved overseas. it is things like textiles, and it would be very hard to figure out net net how many were being performed by machines. there is a joke in south carolina where they do make some textiles, but the mills are entirely automated that they only employee two beings, a dog and a man.

and the man is there to take care of the dog, and the dog is there to keep the man away from the machine. that is globalization and optimizatiautomation. it would be very difficult to untangle the exact source of job loss. i am sorry it is an adequate answer. it is a non-answer to an excellent question. i congratulate you on your callers. they are great. host: the peace in "the atlantic" and up like this -- -- ends up like this -- will you reflect on that? guest: again, it is this question of what the u.s. is

going to look like without a reliable escalator to the middle-class, the notion of a stable and accessible middle- class is foundational to our idea of this country, and we're seeing it it harder and harder for people in the previous sector to lift themselves out of poverty and beyond, and widening income distribution, widening inequality in the class structure of a country that has always prided itself on tremendous florida be. we have been waiting for the next, and bobby talked about this a little bit, the next wave of innovation that will create the jobs of the future and provide the stairway escalator to the middle class.