jobs and business when they were governors of their state. gov. romney served in the private sector with what he is unable to accomplish, running the olympics and so forth. i think all of them have a good u.n. it comes to spending. they understand you cannot spend more than you bring in. they had to govern that way by statute or constitution. that is the kind of leadership you need. this demonstration things you are their piggy bank. -- this is administration thinks you are their piggy bank. that is the wrong approach. i think it is flat immoral that this debt is running up. some of us with a little gray hair are passing on to your kids and grandkids. moody's, as you know, downgraded the federal government. s&p downgraded about eight european countries, starting with france and portugal.

this is what is unfortunately happening in the west -- we have lost this basic understanding of fiscal responsibility. most american families and every small business gets you have to live within your means and set priorities and balance your budget. that is why i said governors would do well, but we have great candidates across the board. you will see them all monday night and everyone of them will be better than the one we have in the white house now. [applause] >> we have a fair question over facebook. do you support the bill regarding offshore drilling near the coast of virginia and what cautions would you take to protect the environment? >> absolutely. we have tried to position ourself in virginia as the energy capital of the east

coast. no offense to south carolina. we have great coal and natural gas reserves. and that is probably virginia natural gas coming out of those lamps. we have major nuclear capacity. you know what the most productive nuclear reactor in the united states is? it is called the united states navy aircraft carrier. that is where nuclear power is the best and we have more in norfolk, va. than any place on the east coast. i'm the son of an army officer. my daughter spent a year in iraq as an army platoon leader. we to make sure everything we can to make sure our veterans are protected at well served. if we're going to have american energy independence, you have to deliver and this administration

has been hostile to call -- hostile to coal which bp regulations. they have tried to prevent hydro fracking, refused to provide a disposal space for spent rods in yucca mountain. that is 97% of the electricity generation capacity in america and this administration is attacking it. there is nothing left. i have never seen a windmill on top of a car actually be able to work. i am for offshore wind, but not on top of my car. we have to realize that i do want us to be able to drill off the atlantic coast. we need to use all our got- given natural resources so we don't have to depend on dictators around the world for oil.

people say we need and america first policy that uses everything. why should we hamstring our own country and force us to go and buy from other countries? offshore drilling, we did not learn a lot of the deepwater horizon incident. it was prudent to slow down and take a look and find out what new technology we need and what new regulations we needed to put in place. but to say after drilling 4000 wells off the gulf of mexico for 40 years that we cannot do it safely off the atlantic coast is flat wrong. that shows no confidence in the entrepreneurs and a great american mines and technology and no confidence in the ability of government to get the regulations right. that is not america. we did not do that after the space shuttle disaster and state will give up. that is absolutely wrong. i have more confidence in

americans than the president. i think we ought to drill off the atlantic coast. senator mark warner and jim webb, two democratic senators from virginia who are opposed to the president's policies and trying to get common-sense regulations in place for offshore drilling. we need to do it and it will be tremendous jobs. it will be about 18,000 jobs in virginia and 7000 jobs in south carolina and tens of millions of dollars in tax revenues. that is how we grow new industries and reduce our reliance on foreign countries. [applause] we're going to have a doctor frank luntz take over. you guys can come closer.

we've got c-span cameras on. you can move away from those things and be a little cold. i want a show of hands -- how many of you are better off than your parents were when they were your age? most hands go up. what ever happened to the fore of view, please tell me who your broker is. how many of neutral -- how many you truly believe your children the way things are going that your children will be better off than you when they get to be your age? raise your hands. look around you. look at how few hands are up. can someone explain to me why you are so pessimistic about your kids? >> the leadership we have today is not taking as where we need to go. >> why are you so pessimistic about the next generation?

>> the economy is down, real estate values are down and there's no prospect for the future. >> why are you so pessimistic about the future for your kids? >> all lack of common sense from washington. >> worry so pessimistic? >> such a huge debt. >> governor, congressman, give them hope and make them feel more confident about the future. would you tell them needs to happen so they have faith their children will have a better quality of life than them? >> you start with the premise -- this is the greatest experiment in human freedom the world has ever known. [applause] what jefferson penned in '76 and what we've ratified in 1791 has stood the test of time. those ideas that were enshrined there have spread ideas and freed -- ideas of freedom and

liberty across the world since the collapse of the iron curtain in berlin wall. we've seen people not only in europe but in other nations look to america for these ideas on human freedom and how to put together a constitution. our system of government is > one president or governor or anyone else. it has worked. we have had some other dark times in american history. the mid-1800s, we have been up and down, but through all of those challenges, the basic structure of america has remained unchanged. the basic secret to success, why we might have lost it or have administration's that might not understand it the way this administration doesn't get it, the people always come around and make the right correction. just like a market as a correction, the election will

have a correction and we will get common sense, conservative leadership restored silicon get back on track. the small businessman and the entrepreneurs are always going to be the linchpin of how we grow. 71% of all the new business in america are created by the small business guy. bill gates or steve jobs, the people who had a dream, dropped out of college, nobody thought much was going to happen and they create some of the greatest companies in america. it that is america and that's not going to change even after injuring four years of this administration. that stays strong and we will recover and be better and stronger. [applause] >> sometimes the greatest opportunities are found in the greatest obstacles. there is no question that since 2008 we have seen one of the greatest opportunities arise in

the tea party. the fact of the matter is when you realize you are taxed enough already and a smaller, less intrusive government is in your best interest, and you realize no matter where you start, your future will be dictated by yourself. the greatest minority in the nation today is the individual. unleashing that individual sets america right. i will tell you from personal experience, the starting of business and understanding having an equity position in this great nation made my life different. i could think my way of poverty. if we realize the hardest lessons we have to learn today are the ones ahead of us, that the federal government cannot save us, and we do not want it to save us, we want to be free. [applause] free to win, but also free to lose. that is why the future is very bright. our best days are ahead of us. there is no question the greatest stand america will have to make is in our future.

we have overcome two world wars, the great depression, the recession of the '80s and we will overcome barack obama, without question. [applause] >> i always feel like george castanza , get out on a high note. one to ask the mom's this question -- where the mother's year? if you go to cafe mom, there is a town hall specifically for moms. you will be able to ask the questions you want to ask. as a mom, what are you most concerned of for your kids? >> their future and their opportunities because our country has been taken in the wrong direction and we need to get in the right direction. >> as a mom, what are you most concerned about? >> i have one son who is

unemployed and cannot find work and have a 23-year-old who is still living at home. he has a job but cannot afford to live on his own because of the economy. >> are you a mom? >> right now, i am a grandmother. my concern is that there will be opportunities when they are that age. my daughter and her husband have provided well for their college down in the future, but will the opportunities be there for them when they're ready? >> i am a mama. i have three children, five grandchildren, all in the carolinas. what i want for them is to be educated to make the right decision and people to have the choices to make decisions from. it is very important to make right choices, including career choices and job opportunities.

>> governor, congressman, what can government do and what should government not do to ensure -- the two words i heard consistently -- choices and opportunities. what is the role of government and what should government not do what it comes to providing opportunities and choices? >> as a kid growing up in abject poverty in a single-parent household, 30% unemployment was average in my community and the government was consistently there to help us. 30% unemployment and the government is there to help us. when the federal government shows up it's not really to help you. it is to create dependence. when you have 47% of americans -- [applause] when you have 47% of americans not paying taxes, we doubt want to talk or start a cultural war. we want everybody to understand

the real opportunity in this nation is having equity in america. that means you have to pay into the system. if we were to lower the tax rate, broaden the base, and make everyone responsible for building this great country, i believe the country would grow faster, better, and broader because every american would find it their responsibility, not the government's responsibility, to make things happen. communities would depend on their neighbors and at the federal government. when it came time to take care of your family, it would not be the responsibility of the federal government to make is more insulated and secure. it would be the responsibility of your brothers, sisters, families and churches and synagogues to make this happen. what the government can do for us is to take a huge step back. let us do what we do best. [applause]

that is a great opportunity. >> i don't think there is a thing i can add to that. [applause] >> thank you, governor, for joining us. i'm going to wrap this up. at 7:00, there is going to be a party that starts right behind you. yes, you get to have a real warmers with that virginia natural gas. [laughter] we need as much of that as possible. joined a fantastic shakers right behind us. america, we find ourselves at the crossroads when wartime. this is the most important election in our lifetime. it's an amazing opportunity to gather the strength to preserve the republic by moving as back toward capitalism and further and further away from socialism. we have to do it and this is the year to get it done.

[applause] we're going to give the governor two or three minutes to close. i want him to answer one question as relates to i 73, which would connect the six states together and give us an opportunity to see an economic boon that would govern the coast of south carolina and to the great mountains of virginia. how do we get it done? you took a bipartisan approach to infrastructure funding and made it happen in virginia. what advice would you give to the rest of the country and hear on the coast and thank you for being here. >> thank you. the only problem with i 73 is if it brought more people to myrtle beach and less to virginia beach, it would be bad for me. i'm all for it. this times getting off of '95, that was the longest part of the trip. it seems like we never got there

because the 501 or other short roads was the toughest part. in virginia, so we are not raising taxes, we are going to use surplus revenues and some general fund revenues because it a priority in our budget. we are going to say we have a very limited debt ceiling. we self-imposed 5%. but let's invest all it'll money -- let's invest a little money. people are getting so competitive. we've got about $2 billion, we created a transportation infrastructure bank where we can have more public-private partnerships to incentivize the entrepreneur. those are the kinds of things that worked pretty well in

virginia. we would have a little chunk of 73 going to the southwestern part of virginia. the route connecting the midwest with myrtle beach would bring a few more sunbathers from the midwest down here and it would probably be a good thing. let me close by saying how much i have appreciated being here and talking to so many of you from the republican party, from the tea party. you are the heart and soul of our effort in order to win. i have been in office 21 years and won nine elections. it doesn't matter how good the candid it is, make great ideas we have. -- no matter how good the candidate is. if you are not willing to do the hard work, knocking on doors,

coming to rallies, hanging of literature on the doors and putting up signs, you cannot win. this is the key to winning. the president did a darn good job in 2008. we have to have the energy and enthusiasm in 2012 on our side. i was close by saying this is the greatest country on earth. we have the highest gdp, the most productive people, the brightest people. the most moral people because we still believe in the basic tenets of human freedom and traditional values and religious faith. we have more people advancing the human condition by advancing medical technology and science than any country. but places like china are not sitting around waiting for america to take the next step. they are working, and evading, watching what we have done over

2000 years -- over 200 years and they're trying to copy it. i remember the way i was brought up. i had a mom that grew up on a farm and a dad that was an army officer. they told me a couple of simple things. my mom always told me to follow the golden rule. my dad told me you better work hard and get things done and don't make excuses aren't going to smack you. [laughter] i learned a lot from dad and mom. this is about opportunity, not federal government guarantees. the more we can affect the culture by spreading that message that it's the kind of formula that has always made us the great people, whether it's a couple of million we start with or 300 million today, the more we adopt the principles, human

freedom and individual accountability and responsibility, the better off we will be as a nation. i am looking forward to work with you to support a conservative candidate for president. the sooner we get new leadership has the vision of limited government and limp -- and individual responsibility and supporting traditional values at letting you keep as much of your hard-earned money as you can, the sooner we return to the founders' vision of america and returned to america's greatness. thank you. [applause] >> let's give governor bob macdonald a great hand. -- governor bobmcdonnell. let's also think dr. frank luntz for joining us as well. god bless you and god bless

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[indistinct conversation] >> former massachusetts governor and a gop presidential candidate, mitt romney, got an endorsement today from one of his rivals. jon huntsman officially stepped down as a presidential candidate and mr. irani said that john huntsman ran a campaign based on the love of country. he saluted him and his wife saying he ran a spirited campaign based on unity and not division. he said he appreciated the former governor of friendship

and support. today, we will hear from rick santorum and his wife. they will meet with the moms of south carolina during a cafe mom forum at a coffee shop in myrtle beach, moderated by republican pollster, frank luntz. that starts at 1:30, here on c- span. >> since 1980, the winner of the south carolina primary has gone to the republican presidential nominee. c-span's road to the white house coverage take you to the campaign events. >> i think you have to say this is a failed presidency. he did not try to make it bad, he is just in over his head. >> we have a message that can appeal not just in south carolina but across the nation and in particular in the states that are necessary for us to win this election. >> as of the candidates get their message out and meet voters -- >> yet another war where we

don't know we are accomplishing or why we are there and we leave at the bigger mess. >> if you're going to use our national security assets, are elements of power, we need to make sure it is in our national security interest and we are not spread so thin that we cannot do it right. >> do you want to holder? >> find more resources at c- span's campaign website. reed of the latest from the candidates, political reporters, and people like you from social media sites. >> there is this tectonic shift that happened online were people's privacy is no longer owned by them. it's essentially a currency we used to get access to facebook for free or gmail, which is a

problem we will see the effects of over the next few years. >> the impact of changing technology on business, the media, and everyday life on "the communicator's" tonight on c- span2. >> we are getting a look at the martin luther king memorial here in washington d.c. with the washington monument in the background at lots of visitors out today as it is the martin luther king holiday. they are able to celebrate at a memorial here for the first time on mlk day. it opened in august and the memorial contains quotations from martin luther king's speeches. one of the quotations will be taken down after it was found to be taken out of context. the main it sculpture depicts king emerging from a stone of hope from a mountain of despair. that is a line inspired by king's "i have a dream" speech.

president obama and his family are among those around the country honoring the legacy of the civil rights leader today. the obama family is participating in an event to honor the king's -- that king family. >> the obama administration recently announced cuts to the low income energy assistance program that provides money to states during the winter to help people pay their heating bills. this morning the "washington journal" we talked to the head of the organization representing state energy assistance directors for about 35 minutes.

host: our guest is mark wolf, a national energy directors assistance association. you represent this low income home energy assistance program. tell us what it is. >> the low income energy assistance program helps low- income families pay their energy bills, especially in the winter when prices are higher as well as summer for cooling programs. it is federally funded primarily but we are also a partnership program. there are about 40 states where there is state assistance or utility partners that supplement federal funding. >> to fall five for the program? your website has a section called -- a website where you

profile of the people. >> every state has a slightly different standard, but on average, it is about 150% of the federal poverty level or about $33,000 for a family of four. we go above any welfare programs. it tends to be short term assistance. most of the programs don't require asset tests like food stamps. we are concerned about what your income is as opposed to what your savings are. that is a difference and part of the purpose of the program is to move people quickly because during the winter, there is a short application program and the idea is to get people in as fast as possible. most families don't have much in the way of assets. >> let's look at the funding for the program. the spending was $4.7 billion and the proposed spending is

$2.5 billion, just a drop there. those numbers are from the department of health and human services. guest: congress just finished the appropriations process last month. they rejected the president's budget and cut the program to $3.5 billion, about 25% cut. that's a difficult number to work with, but not nearly as bad as the president's number which would have been devastating. under the president's budget, we would have to cut nearly 2 million households of the program. there will be some cuts in the number of households served, but primarily, what states are doing would be to cut back the average grant size. we would still be able to service somewhere between 8,000,009 million households. >> -- somewhere between 8 million and 9 million households. home heating spikes over four months.

for many families, that's a large part of their after-tax income. what we are most concerned about is heating oil. heating oil is almost at record prices right now. the average cost to eat a home with heating oil is projected to be about $2,500. -- to heat a home with heating oil it is projected to be about $2,500. if you are on social security, that could be your entire check. we are concerned about those families. there is an increase in electric prices. the only families that are slightly better off from last year are those who use natural gas. natural gas prices have come down. host: if you would like to join the conversation, you can give us a call. here are the numbers.

you can speak with mark wolf, who represents the state directors of the liheap program. let's go to the phones and get a republican caller from new york. caller: i am a recipient of heating assistance. host: how long have you been a recipient? caller: probably about three years now. host: what made you turn to the liheap program? host: i had to. in 2003, i transitioned from male to female. as a result of that, i lost my job and i never thought i would find myself in that position, but in the end, i ended up at social services for assistance and one thing i want to add is that no matter who i spoke to, they were extremely professional, whether it was state or federal people i spoke

with. in many cases, i felt it went above and beyond to assist me. this year, we had a 25% cutback. as it is right now, i have only turned my heat on -- i live in a condominium complex, i have only turned my heat on twice. today it is extremely cold. i just turned it off, i have the drapes open and bundle up and try to keep the thermostat down as much as possible and try to survive. i am living around -- i am living on around $8,000 a year. guest: how much -- host: how much do you get per year? caller: typically was costing around $81 a month and that was with an additional credit from

central hudson of $9 a month. that brought it down to $81. as a result of my turning the heat off and using the other condominium units below, above and beside me and keeping my drapes open during the day to let the sun come in to hit the area where i am, it has greatly assisted me. i am trying to drop my usage down as much as possible and to save again -- host: let's get a response from our guest and hear what he has to say. guest: this is very typical of what we see in the liheap program. it's only enough to cover about half the cost. with the cutbacks, we will be covering a smaller percentage. it is a real concern to us.

on our web site, we have been interviewing families across the country to ask how they're coping with energy assistance. what we have found is for many families, they are in a transitional stage. one of the families, the mother was in college. it basically helps to give a leg up. family's going through health issues -- there is a family with a world war two veteran but that costs have gotten too expensive he cannot cover it anymore. the other thing that is of great concern is when people cut back in winter, the health implications, if you are elderly or have a health issue in your

cold apartment, that can make things worse. if a mother has just given birth, it's not safe, not so much for the baby, but for the mother. there are real public health implications and when it is not funded adequately, we see these outcomes. before it became a program, it was much more common. the good news is when it is funded at the current level or last year's level of $4.7 billion, we see better outcomes. but successes caught some thing

people notice as much. people tend to look for -- the program has been working well and we are reaching close to 9 million households now. host: let's look at cost for home heating for americans. heating oil is estimated to have a 4% increase. natural gas is expected to decline by 7%. electricity is expected to see a 2% decline in cost. propane is going to see a 1% decline, holding steady there. guest: using heating oil is a very difficult situation. over the course of the year, its $200 a month, but that's not how it works. it's over the course of four months. if you are an elderly person on social security and that's your only source of income, that

could be a large portion of your budget. if you are using natural gas, it is a lot less expensive. if you are in a cold weather part of the country, it could be closer to $400 in the south. what is difficult is you might also have a car and you will get hit with higher gasoline prices as well as higher costs to heat your home. it basically helps families get through and get by during the winter. host: we are talking about liheap, the low income energy assistance program that helps low income families heat their homes.

caller: happy new year. i would just like to say it's a good program. it helps when you don't have enough money to cover your utilities. the only thing about program is the way it's administered in the most southern parts of florida. you have to call on a telephone line against a 200 or 300 people. if there was a way for people to get certified in a dignified way where they can receive the services, you are calling all morning and never get through and that agencies, you cannot walk in and make an appointment. when i had my heart condition, i had to have oxygen and i could not get any help.

i think a lot of people's lives would be more miserable. i've seen so many kids come home from school and did not have lights to study. we really need this program to continue. and where the people who need it can get through to receive the help. i hope you all can fix this and redefine liheap some people like myself and the single parents with children, when their budget overruns and they need help that we can get it. please, please, six this program. host: and response? caller: liheap, is not like food stamps. it is what is called a discretionary program. what that means, once the money is gone, we have no more money

to give out. yet the part about liheap that sets us apart, their administrative costs are set by statute. to any sign of time, especially, the agencies from behind, long lines, because the panel is set aside 10% of their total allocation for the -- because they can only set aside 10% of their total allocation. we just completed a survey of liheap recipients and we were quite surprised to find one out of five families now has a veteran in the program. four years ago, only one in 10. i think what they're reflects to a large extent is the changing situation of people leaving the military. before if you left the military, the hiring manager could have been a world war ii from himself. fore's a lot of support jobs. now the unemployment for

veterans is much higher. what we found, to our surprise, the number of veterans has grown considerably. i think that tracks the story the media is covering about veterans at food banks, applying for welfare. i think one of the things liheap is doing this helps remove veterans during the transition from military to finding jobs. another important aspect of our program. host: on twitter -- let's go over some of these numbers. break it down demographically. guest: about 8.9 million households currently getting assistance. a big increase from a couple of years ago, 5.4 million families received assistance. primarily, we serve families

who are elderly, families with young children, and disabled. only enough money to serve about one out of five households. we really serve a subset of the low-income population. host: mark wolfe, runs the association that works with the state directors of liheap, which is federally funded and helps low-income households with their home energy bills. the federal government does not give energy assistance directly to the public. instead, liheap operates in 50 states, d.c., works with tribal organizations and the u.s. territories. guest: it is primarily administered at the local level. if you need assistance, the best that agee is to call the local community action agency. sometimes you can call the utilities and they will refer you how to sign up. we also have a national call-in number.

there is also a website that has the application form for about 20 states you can download. the application period for most states will run through next month, sometimes later. we want to encourage people, even though the money has been cut, we still have federal funds. a number of states have provided supplemental appropriations because of the concern about high heating oil prices. there is concern about the public health crisis. one thing different this year that is troubling, in the past, during the recession, when prices were high, there really was not a problem going back to congress and say, we're looking at the lines, looking at the

need, and finding supplemental funding. that was almost a no brainer. in the current congress, is a different climate. in the coming year, even though i believe we have a strong case for supplemental funding this winter, it is going to be very difficult to get. i think that is one thing that has changed. even two or three years ago, we would of expected the final funding, especially when he low prices were so high. the less heating oil prices were so high. host: the independent line. caller: i am a single woman, 48 years old, i had a stroke. i did not use my heat. host: how does it work for you with your local agencies in pennsylvania? caller: it is great. i filled out the paperwork, and got a notification saying i'm

getting liheap. guest: are using heating oil? caller: i could not hear you. host: are you using heating oil? caller: no, my apartment is all electric. host: thank you for your call. let's talk about this notion the mention of heating oil been so expensive here in the winter and how people really spend money on it for a few months and then the expense steps away so they may not necessarily account for when winter comes. how quick is the response for emergency services? the summit its halfway through winter and spend far more than expected because of the extreme cold or lack of budgeting, what do they do? guest: this year we are really worried. previously, states would set aside for emergency assistance.

so a family plans for the cost of home heating, they received a grant of $8,400 or $500 from the state liheap program, and then if something happened, a health issue or car broke down or just did not have the money, they could ask for supplemental grants. many states set aside money for that purpose. this year we are more concerned because the budget has been cut by 25% and there'll be less money available. some places are cutting the emergency assistance program. even though this is a tough congress to work with in terms of the appropriation, we're hoping we can go back and ask for supplemental funding for this winter. at the end of the day, families can budget for natural gas, to some extent. those prices are pretty stable. the beginning of the winter, give a pretty good idea of what it will cost the. similar for electricity.

heating oil is different. you go through a local dealer. we have global pricing issues right now. amazing instability in the middle east can drive the price of oil during the course of the winter that a family has no way to plan for. for those families, they could be facing a crisis. right now we're looking at $2,500 to heat a home on average. what if you lived in new england? it could be $3,000. with prices spike? for those families, we're very worried. the continuing unemployment across the country that even though it might sound like $700 or $800 is not a lot to your home, many families do not have that. we're into winter heating system season with no idea if it will go down. and on top of that, a 25% cut.

host: and twitter -- guest: if you think you're going to have trouble paying the energy bill, do not wait until you fall behind and get in a shut off position. call the utilities and tried to -- try to work out a payment plan or see if you qualify for grants there's a program, one more supplemental way to help families through the liheap program. host: republican, detroit. caller: i would like to see the directors thought, case in point, we have seen a disability person with an income of roughly $8,300 per year. we have seen from $200 because

of the deal being paid, and now it's down to $142. i had a friend, a disabled person, filed with a call the home heating credit for september 30, received anonymous letter indicating from treasury that the audit would be conducted until december. normally it takes two to four weeks. at this time, nothing has been received. the contacted the government the department that oversees the constituent service. we called department of treasury and asked the but-the indicated to send back to treasure. treasury said they did not receive it. host: do you feel like you're getting the runaround? caller: first of all, the bill was paid normally when this in

the voucher, they have a check off. if you away go, they take it and apply to the service that is due. there was not outstanding bill. the flip-flop back and forth. they need to correct this. a lot of the residents not only in michigan, but throughout the u.s., i'm sure, have been overcharged with miss readings. host: mark wolfe let's mark wolfe has to say. guest: i think because we have to sign of close to 9 million families and a short time, sometimes applications can get lost in the track. i suggest calling our 1-800 number.

they can refer you to the state director's office. i think they can sometimes cut through the red tape. again, 866-874-6327. -- 674-6327. another thing that has slowed down applications in some states, we're still waiting for the final preparation allocation by state and federal government. congress did not finish the appropriation this year and tell the end of december. there has been a lag and letting states know how much money they have. that is supposed to be resolved in the next week or two. they have told me this. then has held up some of the allocation levels. for some families, they're not

sure how much money they're going to receive because the state is not sure how much money they were on the receipt. it is kind of a waterfall effect. it can be difficult for the families waiting for assistance. host: on email -- let me just say, that was a number that came to us from the energy information administration. we're looking at the estimated cost of home heating nationwide. certainly, that rises and falls depending on where you live in the country. $3.61, a reality check. guest: propane prices can vary. the average on the website, the energy information administration website, are just averages. depending on where you live, those prices can vary sometimes by 20%. there is some advantage to shopping around. people actually rent or lease tanks from dealers. heating oil also is a delivered fuel.

when we have done surveys, those prices can vary sometimes by 50 cents a gallon. there's some argument to shop around the other thing to mention, there is a companion program to liheap. you can apply for that through liheap using the first stop in terms of the application process. many states still have resources that can help you weatherize your home, put in insulation, fix a broken furnace. it all seems to make a difference in the price you pay for energy during the winter heating season. there is plenty of evidence a home that has been weatherized can be 20% last -- less. that is another program to ask about. host: another on twitter -- is any sort of a check that you do to help people make sure their home is more energy efficient? guest: we try to do that. a home that is energy-efficient

will be less to heat or cool. the program is fully funded sufficiently to reach a small percentage of the families that get energy assistance. the program varies in size by state. during the stimulus legislation, the obama administration and congress provided $5 billion for with the recession with a goal of weatherizing close to 1 million homes. i think pretty much have seen most of that money. it is really worth asking about. it can make a big difference. a leaky average, using $1,000 to heat their homes this winter, it could be 15% more.

even if all the homes are weatherized, that would not eliminate the need for liheap. many families we're helping have very little money available. if we to get the cost down by $200, that is great, but there is still one to be a large need for liheap. host: mark wolfe is with the national energy assistance directors association. let's hear from roger in detroit on the independent line. caller: how are you doing today? i think it is still a bunch of smoke and mirrors with you guys. you offer assistance when you guys could really have -- i am from detroit. but the seven mile current that could generate electricity, but nobody wants to spend the money

to make the cost cheaper to offer to the customers. i don't think -- concentration on changing from where we're at now to step in this up in the future. with a that is relevant to today's conversation are not, i just felt like i needed to make that call. guest: solar, renewable energies and other technologies all offer promise to help get energy bills down, but our program relief focuses on the e media. the immediate winter heating season and summer cooling season. we're also working with homeowners, low-income homeowners who make the kind of investment in their homes to look at geothermal systems. they do not have those kinds of resources. the focus on getting the bill paid as well as as much as possible, weatherizing the home. host: david, michigan, a democrat line.

we're having a lot of michigan callers. how is the weather there? caller: it is like 20 degrees right now. i do believe the wind chill is below that. host: we're talking about home heating bills. how is yours? caller: the wife takes care of that, to be honest. host: go ahead with your question. caller: the funding comes from tax revenue, correct? guest: yes. caller: i heard to make sort of a derogatory comment about obama and his finding of this program or whatever. don't you think republicans would find this less, if not completely eliminate it? -- fund this less? guest: liheap has had strong bipartisan support since the program was initially enacted more than 20 years ago. i think that still continues.

the house appropriations committee, which is led by -- it is a republican-led house, they provided $3.5 billion for the program -- the senate, which is democratic-led, $3.6 billion. the thing is, both house and senate, democrats and republicans, support this. the administration proposed a deeper cut based on the declining oil prices of over a year ago. the administration starts its planning months and months ahead of time. liheap is based on current energy prices. there was an assumption the number of families would decline because there was an expectation the economy might be improving faster. the $2.5 billion to recommend it would have been devastating for the program.

i think the other question is, where does liheap fit into the social safety net? there are other programs equally important. i work for state energy directors. many of them also run other programs to help families as well. from our perspective, a cut in head start, which could creek sold in an increase in liheap, is not a good solution. -- which could result in an increase in liheap, is not a good solution. we want to help stabilize families. host: looking at senator snowe and her advocacy for boosting liheap's funding. can you tell us about who some of the other advocates of the liheap program are? are we talking about senators and representatives from cold weather states?

is it as simple as that? guest: the strongest representatives are from the cold weather states. winter hits strongly. the coldest states that deliver fuel, especially. 75% of heating oil in the u.s. is used in the northeast. senator snow has been one of our strongest, along with senator reid. host: a democrat. guest: and the ranking minority. also a strong supporter. much credit for larger house numbers than we expected. what we find is members of congress from the northeast who have the highest, energy bills tend to be the strongest supporters of this program. the south and west, not as much political support. i think it is because they tend not to see the program as essential. i think what has changed, and some goes back to the history of liheap, grew out of concern in the cold weather states.

over the last 25 years, we have a lot about the impact of heat. it is 90 degrees or 100 degrees in your elderly, the chance of having a stroke is much higher. there is been a change in southern and western states and how people think about liheap. it used to be viewed that warm weather was not as big a problem, but i think people are realizing for many families to be a very hot house in august or july to be just as dangerous as being in a very cold apartment in the winter. we're seeing a change in attitude. l is going from a problem -- liheap is going to more of a national program. host: last call, independent line. caller: and lot of folks in our state, myself included, family of seven with five children 10 and under, have been turned

down for liheap because the heating is included in the rent. i did not think you could be turned down when you're eligible for other programs simply because you pay your landlord directly for your heat rather than the utility company directly. that is happening. guest: states treats that very differently. some to provide benefits and others do not. i think the concern among states is if you have a heating included in rent, there's a good chance it is a stable price as opposed to one that would vary based on pricing in the winter. it is a real concern because in fact, heat is part of your rent. again, it reflects the fact that liheap is just not well funded. let's find enough to provide minimal benefits, but not enough to reach everyone needs help. host: mark wolfe, neada.org

representing the state's director of the liheap program drop the country. thank you for being here this morning. "today is the first martin luther king holiday that visitors were able to celebrate at the memorial in the sea. it opened in august and it contains quotations from his speeches. you can see in the background, the 30-but sculpture that predicts an emerging as a stone of hope from a mountain of despair. there are lines inspired by his "i have a dream" speech. the quotation on the side will be corrected. it was found to be taken out of context according to "the washington post." some of the people gathered here today, president obama and his family were here earlier honoring the legacy of the civil

rights leader.

klaxon again, we are here at the martin luther king, jr., a memorial, the first time this has been open for mlk day. the sculpture opened in august. president obama and his family were around to honor his legacy. they are designated at a community service project here in washington, d.c. -- they participated at eight service project.

[applause] >> hello. good morning. >> how are you? >> good morning. >> a good morning, everybody. this looks like an outstanding group. i can already tell. i'm not going to make a long speech, because we are here to do some work. mainly, what i want to do is to

say thank you for participating. i know there are a lot of organizations represented here today. we're so glad to be here at this outstanding school where we will be doing a whole bunch of stuff to make the facilities even better than the already are. this is the third year now that michelle, malia, and usually sasha, and i . john service for dr. king's birthday. there's no better way to celebrate that. to do something on behalf of others. there has been controversy lately about the quotation on the memorial, and they will make some modifications, but if you look at that speech talking about dr. king, a "drum major,"

what he really said is that all of us can be a drum major for service. all of us can be a drum major for justice. there is nobody who cannot serve, nobody who cannot help somebody else. whether you are 7 years old or 76 years old, you can find opportunities to make an enormous difference in your community. at a time when the country has been going through some difficult economic times, or us to be able to come together as a community, people from all different walks of life to make sure that we are giving back, but that is ultimately what makes us the strongest, most extraordinary country on earth. we pull together when times are good and also when times are hard. you all represent that. on behalf of our family, we want to say thank you. i'm sure dr. king, were he here,

would want to say thank you. i look forward to spending some time next to you guys. hopefully there are some good instructors so we do not mess anything up. if you put a paintbrush in my hand make sure you give me very clear lines and i will try to stay within them, all right? thank you everybody. god bless you. [applause]

ho [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

clacks the president and his family honoring martin luther king, jr., by volunteering. you can watch last august's dedication on our companion network, c-span3. and next, a discussion about the women of the civil rights movement on c-span3. and now we go to south carolina where women are the discussion at the cafemom discussion with the presidential candidate rick santorum and his wife, karen.

[applause] ♪ ♪ >> hello, everybody. politicalom's correspondent. we are the no. 1 mom site and we started back in 2006. community andr content, but they're really come

to talk to. one of their favorite subject is politics. they have all different kinds of opinions, but we have two things they all have in common. a big deal like politicians are not listening to them. they feel like politicians cannot understand what your real day-to-day lives are like. we think that is unacceptable and that is why we have started at mom's matter 2012, an initiative to get mom's the intermission they need to be informed to vote, no matter what your decision may be. to that end, we are having these forums. we spoke to new to gingrich and the weeks ago, and today we haven't rick santorum and his wife, karen. thank you so much for joining us. [applause] >> you told me something very interesting just now, you have an insane schedule every day. it is event after event.

aegis told me he drinks no caffeine. how is that possible? >> i guess i'm not a good cafe mom. maybe a decaf dad. it actually gives me the jitters. i've never liked it. i'm high energy enough and luckily it am able to go on. i feel very passionate about what i'm doing, and i have no trouble getting up in the morning and getting out there. what an awesome opportunity this is to go and get your ideas out there and paint division for the country and hopefully get people excited about what we want to do it, the vision we have come and it keeps me going every day. >> what's the toughest moment in the campaign so far for both of you? is there any one.

we just think, i do not know why i'm doing this or how i can keep doing this? >> it is the challenges they today. we are the parents of seven children. to the mothers, we understand the challenges of the day-to- day, the juggling, the work, the schedules. you have a lot of moments where you feel like this is what you want to do you are on that path. then you have days. thank -- days where you think why? my car broke down car twice. my old car i really like. just funny things. it's a juggling act with the kids and their schedules.

>> we deal like this is where we are supposed to be. we have a lot of these things happening. we were not moving in the polls, and a lot of people are asking why we were still in the race. we just said we felt like we had a different message than everyone else and we're talking about things that no one else's. eventually people will look at our message, our record, and we are real people out there trying to do with job to reflect the values of real people. hopefully that comes across. if it does, great. if not, and gave it our best. doc[applause] >> oven like to ask you now about an issue that a lot of our moms talk about that really never goes away. if you said in your books that

women find it harder to work outside the home. you think, as are best suited when they have a stay at home mom in them? >> or dad. i will let karen answered that question. she had a lot to say in that portion of the book. in way of an introduction, karen was a nicu nurse, and when we got pregnant with elizabeth 21 years ago now, her life changed. she made the decision to stay at home to raise elizabeth, and i will hand it off from there. think it's important that women feel supported. if they want to work outside the

home -- i'm all for dads staying at home. what ever is right for your family. it was my choice. i'm getting my microphone. sorry. i felt passionate about staying home with my kids. my mom was home with us. but she is just the most amazing woman in the world. if i can have the mother that she was out to us, i will feel like a huge success. i wanted to be at home because of that. but what happens, and i hear this time and time again, but women at home do not feel the same appreciation as a woman in the workforce. we are very much in the work force. i worked as a lawyer. i worked as a nicu nurse. what i did at home was just as challenging if not more challenging than what i did as a lawyer or a nurse. i applaud those who stay at home. [applause]

the work that we do at home is critical, whether it is a dad or mom at home raising the next generation, educating our kids, raising good kids who can give back and contribute to the world to make it a better place is essential. >> i talked about the important role that dads play, and they're out there making money, doing those things, and it there is the man not recognize the work of cleaning, cooking, changing diapers, as well as being the coach of a sports team and all these other things. to me, it is about affirming the important role in the family plays in society, for both mothers and fathers, and not just celebrating success in the workplace, but also celebrating the critical role that parents

play in our society. >> to set something in a speech yesterday, and i never got permission, but this may cause me some consternation. the described the role of the government and families, particularly this government and this president and the decisions and policies that they are making, and we described it touched me. sometimes i get a little cynical, but you broke through it. i would like for you too, just briefly, describe what you think is wrong with the obama administration and its policies, particularly toward young, unmarried women, because i think could be very educational for the people watching at home. >> i will try to condense this. there was a study done by the brookings institute, a liberal think tank, and it was a study on poverty.

people do three things in their life to avoid poverty -- work, graduate high school, and get married before you have children. q. do those three things, according to brookings coming of a 2% chance of being in poverty. on top of that, you have a 77% chance of being above the median income. conversely, if you fail to do one of those three things, you have a 74% chance of ending up in poverty at some point in your life and a 4% chance of being above the median income. these numbers probably shock you in house start they are, but you understand how it makes sense. when i heard this from bill bennett, former secretary of vindication, i was on his radio program and he told me about the program called best friends

which is a program that helps average young girls stop at risk behavior that could lead to bad life choices and bad outcomes. she has this program in schools that is in part federally funded. the obama administration just came down with a policy that said, in her program, she cannot teach abstinence. as a preferable way of avoiding burst out of wedlock. she cannot talk about marriage. she cannot talk about marriage as anything other than an alternative lifestyle no better or no worse than any other. my question is why. why would the president of the united states put a policy in place that even people on his side of the aisle would leave those women to make

unfortunately bad choices that could harm them economically and in a whole host of other ways? someone suggested come on the cynical side, that maybe they want to create dependency or it is just an ideology. it is an ideology. i hear often, "rick and you should not impose your values on everybody else." what is that? imposing a set of values that we know leads to behavior that causes problems in people's lives and in society as a whole. i keep coming back to the question -- why? why would you do that? why would you have a policy that you know is going to cause strife in all of these young girls' lives, not given the intimation they need, the power that they need, to be able to help themselves make these decisions in their lives. i keep asking the question why. >> what is the answer? >> you tell me. you tell me.

you tell me why. i literally do not know. it could be a variety of different reasons, but none of it makes a real sense to me unless you are just so dogmatic that you just -- cannot look at evidence. you cannot look reality. you want to reject something just because it happens to be a traditional values, that somehow or another, for that reason alone we must reject it and the contract america to the point where there is no value that one is better than the other, everything is just the same. we know that is not the case. >> you have said in the past that as president you would talk about the dangers of contraception. what would you say those dangers are? >> i do not know if i ever said that. >> referencing a speech from october in the morning. maybe it was taken out of context? >> someone asked me a question

about that. someone asked me a question years and years ago about contraception with respect to a decision by the united states supreme court in the case in the precursor of roe v wade and started a number of rights and they found were able to justify the creation or the right to abortion. it said it disagreed with that decision as a disagreed with roe v wade. states, while i would not as a legislature vote to ban contraception, the have a right to do that under the tent amendment. the have the right to, just like under the 10th amendment, the states have the right to ban or approval of abortion, in my opinion. what the supreme court did was take away the people's right to make this decision through their elected body and create a right to did not exist in the constitution, and i do not believe still exists, the right to an abortion.

if the founders wanted to put that right in there, there would have written it. later, justices 5, 6, whatever, could not find something is not there is for the public to decide what those moral decisions could be. [applause] >> we have a question for my mom in our audience. >> i'm from here in myrtle beach. i'm also a very proud military mom. my son is getting ready to deploy to afghanistan, his second deployment. recently, i heard about cuts in defense spending, and as a mother one of my greatest fears is that he will be on the front without supplies or support that he will need and he will be stranded. how will you, as president, and assure me and other military families that our sons and

daughters that are in harm's way it serving glad they will have the support that they desperately need? >> thank you for your sacrifice and service and for your young sons sacrifice and service to our country. it i'm the only person who has said it will not cut defense spending, because it is not the problem in our budget. 50 years ago, it took up 60% and it now takes up 20%. no objective person can look at that and say defense is what is causing the problem. it's not. is the most important thing the federal government does, the only thing the government can do that no other area can do. we can have health care programs at the state and local level, and education programs at the state and local level, but we cannot have the military at a local level. that should be robustly funded to make sure in this very dangerous world that we have the

best possible equipment, the best possible training, the best possible system that produces not only the best military, but the best chance for that military can survive and respect the lives of every one of those men and women in uniform. you have my commitment. this sort of ties into these tv ads being out there run against me about your marks. if it were not for air marks, -- earmarks -- the prototype was built, and it would not exist, the heavy armored vehicle that can sustain ied attacks and survive. we had armored comedies before that and we are getting decimated. this armored vehicle would not be deployed right now because the military did not want it. gramm earmarked money for that,

and if not we would not have it. the the 20 is being used on on our special ops missions. i earmark money to make sure that program continues. the predator drone would not exist if it were not for congressional earmarks to make sure they follow through with the program. night vision goggles, one earmarked by put in place. when we return home, "the new york times" just to the story about all these remarks. the interviewed one of the guys that i got an earmark for and they did not run the story. you know why? it's about regenerative medicine. you have seen figures being

drawn back. it's amazing technology. but for five years, i marked against it to keep it open because will transform wound care for men and women in uniform. after five years, the army said it was really good stuff than two weeks ago, "newshour" ran a 20 minute program about how transformative this has been for the men and women in uniform. i understand the concern with your marks, but every agency does not always get it right, and sometimes members of congress are trying to spend more money or raise money because they have taken the time to learn what the right thing is, go out and advocate for it, and they may know a little bit more about it than the bureaucrats. earmarked have been abused over the last few years and a guy like jim demint and i have said

we should put an end to it. they are not always bad. we have to understand that abuse does not mean that everybody abused it. i'm very proud of the things we have done. go ahead and continue without me. look at our record. look at the men and women who have been saved as a result of what we have done. i'm very proud of the fact that we did it. [applause] >> there are a number of monster with children of military age and you talk about the challenges, and i want to follow up on this question about afghanistan. you have seven kids. i asked both of you, how would you feel the that was your child going over there? are you prepared to send their children to take down iran before they launch a nuclear weapon? >> to take down iran?

no. to take up their capabilities, as the israelis did in syria with their reactor and iraq, that is a very different thing than a full-scale invasion. i will not talk about that, because it's not in the playbook come anywhere in the playbook. that's not something we should engage in. we should stop the radical theocracy that has mal intent, not just for israel but for our allies in the region, most of , andare sunni muslims not just for the west, with their projection of terror. this is a country that, with a nuclear weapon, would be the greatest threat to peace and

security this world has seen in a very, very long time. they are driven by a theology that believes in conquest. i know barack obama says it's just a little country in the middle east, but it's a very wealthy one with a lot of oil and gas and they can buy off- the-shelf technology and develop themselves with nuclear weapons, build the technology to deliver it, and they have legions of terrorists. in central and south america, president ahmadinejad spend time in venezuela with hugo chavez. there are training camps of jihadists sponsored. this is not a problem halfway across the world that we do not need to worry about. they are aligning with others and they want to see the u.s. domination, if you will, or

influence to wane in they will do whatever they can to make that happen to show that they are the next one on the block. if we do not stop them from doing this, we will be preventing a war we have never seen the likes of before in this country. it is not a matter of taking out this regime, not a matter of a pre-emptive war, but a matter of taking up the nuclear capability that will change the face of our country. >> he would not have a problem with your son flying in that plane that drops the bomb and there will be people on the ground trying to take him down? >> i would be very proud of my son for serving my nation, as a mother. com[applause] >> we have two boys, all one and it just spread with a high school, the other in high school. one of the considerations

they're looking at is potentially doing some kind of military service. i have nothing -- i have been nothing but encouraging. >> which branch? >> i will not get into that. [laughter] momet's take another question. >> thank you for being a home schooling family. it would be great to have one in the white house. i am the mother of two boys who are perfectly normal, and our daughter was born with a syndrome similar to the chromosomal issue your daughter has. i'm curious as to what you think the government's role should be in the role of special needs children. it's complicated. she had surgery at duke last week. there are a lot of needs to be considered. what you think the government should be doing to help parents? here, but feelin

free to fill in. our feeling, from our perspective, is that we want to do everything we can care for our child to the extent that we can do so. we not only deal an obligation to, but we want to do it. we believe that those are resources, and i cannot imagine how to spend them any better than on this beautiful child that is the center of our life and we love more than life itself. [applause] to me, that is a good expenditure of resources. obviously, some people are not in that position. one of the reasons i'm concerned about obamacare and government- run health care is that we tend to hear about the cost effectiveness research. you hear about the proper utilization of resources. when i hear things like that, as the data base special needs child, the red flags go up.

that means my child has to "earn" care, "be worthy" of care, be a "good investment." how you look at my daughter? you look at her as we do, which is a transformative figure in our family and to everyone who has ever met her? >> she's perfect. i'm sure you feel the same. >> do look at her as the gift she is to everyone she touches? it's amazing. yet, too many in the world, you would ask why do anything? we were told by many professionals to let her go, not worth fighting for, because she would not be able to "do" anything. sure there are some physicians who love and support your little girl. we'll pray for her.

what's her name? >> hermione. >> we will hope she does really well. it's interesting how they categorize certain diagnoses. "lethal diagnosis come incompatible with life." they need to stop using those words. and we are really on a mission now to help change the wording and how they give these diagnoses the parents. their mantra is to give the child a chance, see what the issues are, love and support the families. there's no doubt. we feel, as sure as you do coming is it is an honor to take care of our little bella. she's an angel of heaven.

she's worked the dignity of every other child. utricle may have to turn into an mama bear to get the care, and i'm sure we could talk for hours. she has a happy, beautiful alive. initially, it was a challenge just getting the basic care. >> to answer your question more directly, to the extent that the parents can and should provide, that they can't, anytime there are extraordinary costs associated with a disorder, it should be socialized in a high risk pool at a state level, because of the instability of medicaid, something will provide for about. that come to me, is a very appropriate way for society to affirm the dignity -- the dignity.

[applause] >> the senator described what he went through in a very emotional way. can you, as his wife, talked was briefly about what he went through and about how you and he dealt with the challenges of that child? it's very powerful. i would like to now hear from the mom. >> be got the diagnosis four days after her birth. it was a really hard time. we were not expecting it. we had lost a baby, so always thinking about was how i could not go through it again. i was very angry and i went into a deep, dark hole for 10 days. i was never going to leave my face, it was trying. i just kept asking why.

she was in the nicu. when i let go of the "why" there was a peace in me. that beautiful child was year for a purpose. i loved her with my heart and soul. she is a part of our family and we will love her and take server just like any of our kids. initially, he held back because he needed to beati was truly fa. for any of you moms who have been through this, you know the pain and the challenge it could be. what we did -- you know, we are a very close family. we just sort of came together and dealt with it issue by issue. but over all, it was gone to be we will love and support bella and fight for life. and the family -- there were things that happened that i thank god i had been a nurse because i knew better. when certain things would happen

i would call the doctor on it or the nurse. and again, we have wonderful physicians and nurses and our lives. who will love like crazy, because they walked this journey with us. but there were some along the way, too, where it was shocking what we saw what they're not treating bella with dignity and respect and that is something i always insisted on as a mother, she be treated with the same dignity and respect as any other child and it was not always easy. issue by issue -- which grows really strong. we were all initially go right through a tough time. hospice care -- and strange that it is, you bring a baby home and you are going to hospice care, which is strange for us. we got home from the nicu and we both said, we want to focus on bella's life. our children are so dear. they love her like crazy. we came home and they had a big sign, welcome home signbella,

happy birthday. each day they made a number and for two years the sign hung on the family room and the change did every day, every week, and every month. them a party every day for a while. do >> a party every day for a while. then it was every week and then confident enough to do every month. it is just sort of the steps you take. >> a lot of hospitalizations the first year. but to make a very long journey short, bella is an amazing girl. if she is 3 and have and nobody thought she would live for three hours and she is joyful and happy. the cutest thing. i have all these pictures in my mind as a mother -- one day i was in my room and my two little boys peter and patrick were playing cards and they had bella in her little chair right there with them, little cards in

front, and monday were playing piano, she is they're playing with them and in the kitchen -- would love to cook and bake and it is very much the heart of our home. she is right there and she is a great blessing. >> she loves her dad alive. [laughter] >> she has him wrapped around her little finger. she just melts -- >> she really loves me, too. and i love you brought your kids on the campaign trail. -- >> i love you brought your kids on the campaign trail. you said it is almost like a living school lesson. how are you structuring that? >> our children, who are in school -- they allow them to have two weeks off. and they are briaire good keeping up their assignments. -- very good keeping up with their assignments. not really. >> you know you are on camera. >> their assignments are going to the campaign office making phone calls.

>> hands-on learning. looking at the caucus state, primaries, the whole journey, how presidents are elected -- history and geography. it has been a lot of fun and it has been a great education. >> they have done a great job. my daughter elizabeth spent six weeks in south carolina traveling. my son john, a week and have in new hampshire and a couple of weeks in iowa. that was last semester. the semester we gathered everyone together and decided to spend time and come down to south carolina and plan our flags down here. they have been a boost and encouragement to me, being with us. it can be a lonely traveled day after day on the road, not seeing your kids. >> i think it is really need to watch these children. you always want to raise your kids with a spirit of service. the kids have done a lot of mission work and clothing and food drives, but they are being

raised with a sense that life is not about them but it is about serving our lord, making the world a better place, it is about going out of your comfort zone and giving to make the world a better place. this is hard work. the kids are working hard but they know this is to make our country a better country. pretty neat. >> let's take another question from a mom now. >> good afternoon senator and mrs. santorum. i live in greenville, south carolina. i have supported the senator says he announced as exploratory committee. >> thank you. >> i of the sun is gay -- my youngest son is gay. i debated a long time how to handle my support of you because what he has been hearing -- rick santorum hates gays. interestingly, we had a short conversation and he said

actually i did not have any problems with his stance on gay marriage because i do not believe in gay marriage. but i still have that sense thatguilt because -- his friends react to what they hear. how do i deal with that? >> delaware head if you want to jump in and. >> thank you for the question. you as a mother -- we all love our kids unconditionally, and as rick's wife, i have known him and loved him for 23 years. and i think it is very sad what gay activists have done. they have vilified him and it is so wrong. rick does not hate anyone. he loves them, but he has simply -- what he has simply said it is marriage should not happen. but as far as hating, it is very

unfortunate it has happened and a lot of it is backyard bullying where people come up to us and say something and we will ask them to give an example and they cannot even provide one example as to why they took the position they took. you can take it from here. >> karen is right. it is not an issue of not doing what i am called to do, which is to love everyone and accept everybody. this is a public policy difference. and i think the problem is some see the public policy difference as a personal assault. and because that i believe that marriage, which has existed before government existed, marriage existed from the very beginning of time -- the way we were meant to be, not just that, but it is i believe governments include marriage in their laws is because we need to encourage what is best for mothers and fathers and children, which is for them to be together again to

give every child of their birthright, which is to know and be loved by their mom and dad. and if we do not hold that up as something that society is for and encourage it and promote it, then we will get less of it, and we will be, in a sense, denying tilden what is best for them. we should not be a society that denies our children and our feature what is best for them. it is already rough enough out there. we need to affirm that people can have other relationships that are important and they can say that they are fine, but they cannot be what is essential for the future of our country. there are all sorts of the relationships -- relationships that people have and they are valuable, whether they are cameras, friendship relationships or familial relationship. they are all important and they have value and they should be affirmed. but that does not mean we should change the laws in order to

create an atmosphere in where children and families are not being -- i looked at what we have seen in the country. i hear this a lot from those who are promoting same-sex marriage, that heterosexuals have messed up marriage and why are you picking on us. your answer is, you are right. that we have seen a decline in marriage in america and a decline -- just in the last 30 years, -- this has came out as of today -- 71% of people over the age of 18 being married in this country down to 51%. 5% drop in the last five years, which is the fastest drop ever. say that what is going on in the public and the culture does not affect marriage. it does. it affects people's attitudes toward marriage, their desire to marriage, what they see marriage is, and if it is not something that have an intrinsic value and worth, then you will get less of it. and we see this going on now.

and so, i would agree that there were problems with a marriage before we had this debate, but this debate in my opinion is not helping. what we need to do is refocus on trying to promote men and women coming together and having th ose strong bonds, supporting men and women in marriage. in an example in my book "it takes a family." in one of my chapters i talk about a project and in chattanooga, tennessee. a city in east tennessee where they found out through the demographic research that was done, the senses, that they had, i think, the highest divorce rate in the state and one of the highest out-of-wedlock birthrates and the highest single parenthood rate. they were amazed this to town in the smoky mountains would have this problem. the community fathers decided to

do something -- educators, business people, town fathers, as well as the churches, taint -- came together and started a nonprofit saying we will do something to reinstalled marriage, to help father is the response for the children, nurture and support people going through difficult times, and make a conscience -- conscious effort as a community to have in the classroom education about what marriage is and why it is valuable and what is important about that and maybe share the things i've shared with you, the brookings institute study. information is a very powerful thing and having community support and nurturing is actually essential for setting expectations as to what people should be doing in their life. and you have a popular culture that sets a very different expectations. our heroes that we celebrate almost without thinking, not heroes necessarily promoting the values and when we have one that does, they are controversial.

right? they are the ones who get held up to scorn and ridicule because they stand up for the book of virtues or truths, as we saw just recently with tim tebow. so, we have this problem in our culture. so when the people in chattanooga decided we are going to fight against the culture and do it as a community, and they lowered all three of the rates by 25% in the first three years. it can happen. we can do this. and it is not against anybody. it is for something that we know it is good. respecting everybody in their right to live their lives but understanding that there are intrinsic good and body and institutions that have been in existence for a long time and we should not nest with what is true and right and has been in existence since the beginning of humankind. [applause]

>> is tim tebow a hero? [applause] >> hesitated because he beat the pittsburgh steelers. [applause] sort of a sensitive subject right now. >> i was for him yesterday. did not work out too well. >> so, in a way you work for him before you were against them. i want to ask you about how the wood. i have known you for sometimes and i know you are very concerned about the cultural influence not just economic. what message would you send to the moms about hollywood. >> it is funny, after i left the senate people said he spent your life in politics. i did -- we got married and got into politics right away and was in public life from a timeout was 32 years old.

i practiced law before that. but 32-48 -- i left politics when i was 48. after that, i got involved with a little company because i was very concerned during my time growing up, in a sense, growing up as a father in politics and sing the impact of the popular culture on our children. we took measures by putting all the parental controls in and not sending our kids to a movie unless we saw the movie first. we did everything we could but you cannot avoid it. you are watching a good show and then there are commercials which are x-rated commercials and you are constantly sang "turn your head away." "hit the zapper." what should parents have to fight to protect their children from what comes into their house? if somebody came to your door like that who was showing themselves the way they are showing, you would call the police. and yet television feels they have the right to go in there and show you these things.

and mold the moral imagination of their true -- your children. a friend of mine was involved in a start of business that was going to try to provide a technology to help parents manage the television from the standpoint of what their children were being exposed to. it was a little company i and of working for, the number two guy at the program, the business, for three years. we ended up having to go out for money to launch our product in the fall of 2008, which is when everything crashed. so, timing is everything, my friends. it did not turn out very well. we hung on for as long as we could. here is what i found. i found as we did demonstrations of the product and did focus groups with parents, there was wide acceptance because it was a matter of basically here is a tool for you. it is neutral from the standpoint of what you do with

it. and it really gives parents choices. we are not saying this is good or bad -- this is good, this is bad, but here it is. it gave you control. to that extent, a lot of people were very excited about it. and so, that was exciting. what i did find that also is that the cable industry and the entertainment industry wanted nothing to do with it and ran away from it as fast as they could. they will do the minimum. they will do the minimum to show that the "care" about giving parents parental control but they really do not want to and they certainly do not want to charge anybody for it or create a service parents would have to pay for because it takes away from their own revenue. they are interested in purveying what ever you want to see and they did not really care what you see. to me, that was chilling. something interesting i found out. look, this is a great product and you parents who are desperately wanting something that could help them manage it,

so when the six-year old or eight year old or 10-year-old are watching what you are making dinner, they did not have to worry about not just what is on the show but on the commercials they are watching. they were very start with me and they said, look -- only 31% of our subscribers had kids under the home -- in a home under 18. not a big market. you know who uses cable? single males. and we do not want to touch this thing. there you have it. this cold business decision. not what we can do to help form and give parents the ability to be able to raise their children in ways that is consistent with their values, but we have an entertainment industry -- whether it is internet or television or movies -- who, in many respects, have been on the agenda. number one is money. but it is also pushing the envelope because that is what they continue to do to try to get new, young eyes, to push the

envelope. as we see it pushing the envelope, our culture is degraded further and further. >> and question from my mom now. >> my name is christine, and i want you to know i have a whole bunch of moms following my experience today, because i will be writing about f it in about forums on cafe mom. my husband and i are in the process of trying to sell our home but in the current market is proving to be a very difficult task. i was wondering what you and your administration would do to try to repair the damage that has been done to the housing market? >> i did that question quite a bit, and i have, at least in my own mind, somewhat of an unsatisfactory answer. i'm a politician should not say that. the housing market had a boom and had a huge bubble and it burst. what we saw is what happens in

the housing front and basically the financial services front, which of the government injected itself through fannie and freddie and other ways to try to soften the blow. and in softening the blow, as we have seen in the financial markets, we have for long but the pain. and we have stretched out of this situation for a longer and longer time. and we still have not reached the point where we have, in a sense, hit bottom and can accurately and fairly priced everything -- all of the bad loans have been gone, swept out, and we can reestablish real value of the house or housing or grow from there. we are still carrying these mortgages along with us because we have a government that does not want to recognize the pain, as we did with respect to the financial services sector. i believe in letting markets work.

and sometimes it is like taking the band-aid off. for me, my arms are a little hairy so when you take the bandit off, you do not want to take off slowly because it really hurts. so, you take on real quick and it hurts for a second but then it goes away. in some respects, that is what we have to do with the housing market. we've got to find the bottom. we've got to let the market work. we have to let the folks, whether they end up speculating and losing money or it simply bought their house at the wrong time, people have to go through the pain of recognizing that laws and moving on. and if we don't do that, then we will have a malaise in the housing market which will continue to drag down our economy for a long time. for me, it is quit trying to apply more band-aids and just pull them off, let the market work and let us start over and build a stronger housing industry. [applause]

>> i think you just broke the news about the hairy arms. [laughter] i now understand the sleeveless vest. >> they had to shorten the microphone for me. thank you for being here today. a real excited to meet you guys. my name is becky and i am from camden, south carolina. i want to go back to the subjects about you all home school. we are one of those families who home schools our children. and many families are turning to home schooling their children to give their children a better education than what they feel is out there. you all obviously support homeschooling. i am wondering what steps would you take to defend the rights of parents to direct their

children's education with no fear of governmental intervention? >> i guess i will take it. my feeling is -- and i say this in all of my speech is where i talk about education. we should have an education system that serves the customer of the education system. and the customer of the education system is the parents, because it is the parents' responsibility to educate your children. we have been conditioned by a sect -- society that believes by serenaded is no longer in your responsibility. you can drop your kids off at a public or bring private school and it is somebody else's job to do this. but of course, it is not true. there are still your children and you have the responsibility of making sure that they are provided for in every way. whether it is food or

transportation. education is a big part. you educate your children from the moment they are born -- you teach them their abcs, everything. it does not stop because you have somebody helping you. you need to be, i think, reminded, as we were, that if parents do not engage, then you are turned -- turning over your child to being raised by people who may or may not share your values, may not do what you believe is in the best interest of your children. of course, why would be do that? other than you have to because you have no choice. this is the first -- frustration of a lot of parents. they feel like they did not have any choice. we have an education that focuses on the education system. they did not focus on your child. they talk about "children." i understand we have a children that need to educate all children. but we have businesses in america, large ones, that

provide services to millions, probably more people than the education system those children. yet, they have a motto in every business -- who comes first? the customer. it is not true in the education system in the country. i of the system comes first, employees come first, and it is certainly not the parents did. it is certainly not the parents and what we can do to work with parents so they can get, for their children, what they believe their children need to be successful. not as a society necessarily sees successful. because you know what -- let's look at no child left behind. yes, i know i voted for but i would repeal of i have the chance, which i hope to if i get elected president. [applause] but society said what is really important is academics. what is really important is

academic accomplishment. but what if you are a parent who believes that, yes, academics are important but i want my child to be raised with a deep, rich state, or i want my child to be good and virtuous, that is more important to me than how well they do in a particular subject? maybe those things are more highly valued by the parents. and why not? you said before that the three things you have to do to be successful is work. that is a value parents want to instill. it was instilled in me. a very important part is a set of values -- hard work, honesty, integrity. all of those things. how many people were hired a hard worker who has enteric -- integrity and honesty and loyalty and maybe a c student, or d. 1 d a student who does not have any of those values? so why are we just focused on the a? why do we have an education system that cannot provide

parents with an environment that focuses on the things we know will lead to success in america, and it is not just academic achievement? but that is what the entire education system is focused on. and it is not focused on what is best for mom and dad and for the family. it is broken. it -- people say, what can you do at the federal level? not much, to be honest. what we can do is, and i said, repeal "no child left behind" and the federal government out of the way of education. maybe you have seen a little of this today -- i believe in getting up and telling people what i think. sometimes it gets people man, but you know would also get to them doing? talking. i think it is important we have national discussions of what we really want our country to be. and to talk about important things. to talk about a real fundamental reform of our education system and empowering parents to start -- i hate to use the term resolute -- revolution, but

maybe that is what it needs. parents need to unite and say we are not going to take this anymore. we are not going to be told what our children are going to do and how they are going to do it. we demand for the hundreds of billions of dollars spent in the education system, that you give us an education system that meets the needs of me as parents and what is best for the children. yet others say we know better what is best for your child. i remember this debate a few years ago -- you may remember, ira magaziner who designed the clinton health care plan in the mid-1990s, he was on "meet the press" what phil gramm and there were going back and forth about the clinton health-care plan and who cares for this and how good this is where your kids, whatever. he finally got frustrated and said i care for your children as much as you do, phil. and he looked at him and said you care for my children as much as i do?

he said, yes. and he asked, what are their names? you know your children's names, right? you know what they want. as much as washington says they care, they don't, because they don't know your kids. they don't know all the special things. we have seven children. they are all different. they learn differently. they need different things. why don't we trust parents enough? will some parents fail? yes, unfortunately they will. the government have to pick up the pieces and help? yes, they will. but why do we deny parents who love and want what is best for their children the opportunity to do that? why would a government specifically say to those who are responsible -- think of this city for those who are responsible, no, you are not going to have freedom, you will not get what you want because we have to have a system that treats everybody the same? it is not america, folks. >> you will be debating tonight. one less opponent. you did quite well in iowa and not as well in new hampshire.

>> we did well in new hampshire given what we were up against. we finished fourth and spent no money. [applause] we spent no money. everybody else spend millions. we spent nothing. we were at two points a week before the primary and ended up finishing fourth place. ahead of the other two conservatives and the rage, gingrich and perry -- who spent millions. so i think we did exceptionally well. >> certifying the race -- rick might have one iowa. >> we will know in the next 24 hours what the results were and it is an open question. a lot of folks have been shifting around there. this may be a different environment, saturday than what people think. >> out of the three

conservatives -- ron paul has the libertarian race, mitt romney has the establishment vote -- how does one of you emerge when there is still a newt gingrich and rick perry? >> for some reason the press wants to declare this race over as soon as it can and certainly the republican establishment. they are all lining up saying if one of these guys does not win in south carolina -- mitt romney tied in iowa, having campaigned there for six years and spend millions of dollars, and i spent $30,000 on television in iowa. first place in new hampshire where he has lived for the last six years. spent enormous money and hired anybody who is anybody to work for him. and 53% of the people voted in new hampshire were not republicans. how many people know that? >> surprising, isn't it? >> the press does not tell you. in only 47% of the folks who voted in new hampshire were

republicans. sure, he did great. but they are not the people in my opinion who should be decided with the republican nominee is for president. [applause] and so, all of a sudden, now he is the guy. and of course, it has an impact on south carolina. why? because people watching tv saying he is the guy. if you want to be with the winner. if there is one thing that i have noticed it -- two things i have noticed running for president. first, it is possible for someone with no money who goes out and has good ideas and can go out there and willing to work and put the shoe leather grand, to come out of the pack and do something. we have been blessed that we have that opportunity to prove it again, that america is a pretty great country and this is a pretty great political system that someone who literally has spent virtually nothing and was just willing to work hard and

get their ideas out and still actually be in the race for president of the united states. it should be an encouragement to everybody. that there still is a way, there still is a path. but it gets harder when the people who have the resources are the ones who are sort of saying, well, let's just ignore this and focus on who is the guy who had the money. money does not win elections. ideas, a character, integrity -- integrity, vision, that winds elections. -- wins elections. [applause] >> rick has got an important endorsements from social conservatives. i am starting to read that south carolinian is starting to say they think that may be on your side. it got on your side? >> hopefully he is on all of our sides. [applause] >we all need god our sides.

we pray for everybody in this race because we know how difficult it is. this is something we have been doing for years in our family. we always pray for opponents -- republican, democrat, whatever -- because when a hard it is. it is brutal. it is really tough on families. the time away. the things that are said. the nastiness. the vast majority of the people are wonderful, but cut -- but you run into people who are not so nice at times and they can make it may be not so much fun. particularly with your kids and what they have to go through some times with the charges and the assaults. >> the endorsement -- and for a point to make. -- an important point to make. >> really unprecedented that these folks got together. i talked to several people who

were on their way down and everybody thought it was sort of a waste of time, because you put a bunch of christians together and they cannot agree on anything, right? so, the fact that here they are and they came up with a very broad consensus, like 75% of the folks decided to come out and say they are going to support this and sort of give an endorsement and several people since have come out. i think it showed how important this race is for conservatives. we believe we have to win this race by having a mandate for the kind of change that is necessary to restore our constitutional principles back and get this kind of bottom-up solutions to problems that made america great -- believing in free people, free-market, faith, family, and freedom. and if we did not do that the digging -- i talk about back in

1980 we were going through a similar collection with jimmy carter and economic malaise and stagflation and disrespect around the world, and experts came down here to south carolina and told south carolinian they had to vote for somebody who could win because it was so bad, they just needed to win an all somebody should care about is winning and they promote somebody called george h. w. bush. and the other choice was a guy named ronald reagan. everybody goes back and looks at reagan -- ronald reagan. when he came to soccer line he was not ronald reagan. he was just the governor of california, former governor. he is the right and we know now. but south carolina saw in front of reagan someone who could be that person. and was willing to buck the experts and the pundits and vote for what america needed. and as a result, it made all the difference. that is what i have been

encouraging south carolinian is to do. this is a state that has strong american values, conservative principles, and all i ask you to do is vote your conscience, vote those principles. america needs that voice. if they are not going to get it from here, where else would they get it from? do not be afraid to go out and do what you believe is right and do not worry about differing your judgment to political pros who did not care about the issues you care about. >> i say vote for my husband -- [laughter] [applause] >> senator, i think this audience could sit and asking questions all day but unfortunately we are out of time. we appreciate you coming and talking to us today. thank you. [applause]

>> you can get your rick santorum sweater vest. so beautifully modeling it. you can go on the web site. we also have 4-ins hunting vests that have the logo on the front and back, the right to bear arms.

>>

>> we have a female lieutenant colonel, billy that are not. -- believe it or not.

>> i met yesterday in conway, me and my husband and my other daughter. wondering what's -- to get

anybody to drop out. one less. thank you so much. good luck. >> you got the swat -- this letter this time. i like that. -- the weater this talk -- sweater this time. >> whatever names? >> nice to see you. >> how old are both of you? nine? a big boy.

>> thank you so much. >> very nice to meet you. i am cafe. >> hi, kathy. i hope that is a good thing. it certainly helps. >> from georgia. came here just to see you.

then i have been begging you for bush -- from day one -- the picture. >> thank you very much. >> right here for one more. pretty sad, isn't it? >> don't leave -- we got ago.

>> we wish you the best. god bless you. >> he is gorgeous. it thank you. my goodness. >> thank you for doing that. >> it is important to see other people who know what we have been through. >> hello, you beautiful girl. oh, my goodness. >> crossed the 10-pound mark before surgery.

>> she could not breathe because her jaw was too far back and a blocked farair. thank you. -- was too far back and it blocked her error. -- air. thank you. i am sorry. >> you are so beautiful. >> thank you so much. >> just praying for you everyday. >> keep up a fight. >> help us out.

>> c-span's "wrote to the white house" coverage continues this week leading up to saturday's south carolina primary. the florida primary attend days later, and early february we will bring you caucuses in nevada and the week-long caucuses in maine. follow on the c-span networks and our campaign 2012 website. and be sure to use the links to join the conversation on facebook and twitter, too. earlier today, mitt romney gained the endorsement of former utah governor john huntsman, who decided to end his campaign for the republican presidential

nomination. in a statement released this afternoon, mr. romney said i salute jon huntsman and his wife mary kaye. he ran a series campaign based on unity and not division and love of the country. jon huntsman today dropped his presidential bid and endorsed mitt romney. that announcement came a day after he was endorsed by "the state," south carolina's largest newspaper. he said the republican primary had become too negative and personal and challenge the remaining candidates to focus on the issues and defeating the president obama. he made his announcement at the myrtle beach convention center in south carolina. >> good morning, everybody. i am delighted to be surrounded, first and foremost, by those i love and appreciate

most. i am up here but the greatest human being i have ever known, my wife mary kaye, who has sustained us throughout this journey. i am also up here with an interesting group of campaign activists called the jon2102 girls, and i am delighted to be here with maryann, abby, and liddy, and also delighted to be joined by my daughter gracie dubbed as our senior foreign- policy adviser and i want to compliment her on the excellent job she did. i am here with my father and i want to express my love and appreciate in -- an appreciation for him, my son-in-law, and terrific team. some supporters, like a beloved iris campbell, the former first lady of this great state, as is the attorney general, allan wilson, and close personal friend of mine, mike campbell, who is here, among others. i am honored and delighted to be

in the presence of some of our great supporters. i just like to make a few comments about the current state of the presidential race and i would you go. as candidates for our party's nomination, our common goal is to restore old and -- bold and principled leadership to the white house. leadership that will unite our economy and renew the american spirit. yet, rather than seeking to advance that common goal by speaking directly to voters about our ideas to rebuild america, this race has degenerated into an onslaught of negative and personal attacks not worthy of the american people and not wording of this critical time in our nation's history. this is the most important election of our lifetime. this country desperately needs to begin a journey that will

allow us to create a career -- and courageously tackle our two most urgent deficit. one is an economic deficit. the other is a trust deficit. only bold ideas will get us where we need to be. and this campaign needs to be driven by those ideas. at its core, the republican party is a party of ideas. but the current toxic form of our political discourse does not help our cause. and it is just one of the many reasons why the american people have lost trust in their elected leaders. today i call on each campaign to cease attacking each other and instead talk directly to the american people about how our conservative ideas will create jobs, reduce our nation's

debts, stabilize energy prices, and provide a brighter future for our children and our grandchildren. invest our time and resources in building trust with the american people and you 19 of them around a common purpose. three years ago, the president promised to unite the american people. yet his desire to engage in class warfare for political gain has left us more divided than ever. this divisiveness is corrosive and does not advance america's interests. this nation was built on unity and trust. trust in each other, trust in a revolution that gave birth to the freest and most prosperous nation the world has ever known. trust in our system of government.

that sense of unity and trust has sustained us through world wars and national tragedies. now we need to -- it to sustain us during this hour of need. all to leave, this election is about more than the future of one candidate -- campaign or one party. it is about the future of our nation. and for our nation to move forward together with new leadership and unity, the republican party must first unite. we enter this race -- entered this race just six of months ago with the longest of long shots. my candidacy was staked on the simple principle of country first, and driven by a refusal to pass down to the next generation a country who is less powerful, less prosperous, and less competitive than the one we

inherited. today i am suspending my campaign for the presidency. i believe it is now time for our parting to unite around a candidate best equipped to defeat barack obama. despite our differences and the space between us on some of the issues, i believe that candidate is governor mitt romney. as for the huntsman family, we stepped down with an even greater appreciation for american democracy, which is fundamental to american values. after all the town halls and handshakes and meet and greets, we leave it in the hands of the people and we respect the results. to our many staff, supporters, and volunteers, i offer my heartfelt thanks. today our campaign for the

presidency ends but our campaign to build a better and more trustworthy america continues. we will continue to fight for a flatter, simpler tax code that helps unleash opportunity rather than stifle it. for an energy policy that ends the scourge of our addiction to foreign oil. for a congressional -- congressional term limits. for education reform that prepares our kids for the realities of the 21st century. for worth -- finance reform that breaks up too big to fail banks and protects taxpayers from future bailouts. and we will continue fighting to bring home our brave men and women from afghanistan and stop nation-building overseas and start rebuilding our own nation. for mary kaye and our family, these last six months have been

an incredible and awe-inspiring journey. i have seen the very best of america. i have seen it in the spirit of our entrepreneurs whose innovations continue to inspire and better the world. i have seen it in the courage of our veterans who i have met at vfw halls in communities all over the nation. i saw it in china, 10,000 miles away, meeting with dissidents who have been tortured and beaten, but who drew strength from our nation's values -- our openness, our freedoms, our commitment to human rights. half way around the world, they can still see america's light. that is the power america still projects. and i will never stop fighting for her and fighting to ensure that america's light shines

bright for generations and generations to come. because in the end, we must all come together as americans and must be reminded -- reminded that the fight to preserve and enhance life, liberty and happiness is what really sets us apart in this world and is worth our tireless efforts as citizens of this most extraordinary nation. thank you, and may god bless america. thank you. >> [inaudible] why the change of heart? >> thanks, everybody.

>> >> a reminder that c-span's "road to the white house closed of political coverage continues. leading up to saturday's south carolina primary. the florida primary coming up the january 31 and in early february there will be caucuses in nevada and maine. follow the road to a white house on c-span and honor campaign 2012 website, c-span.org /campaign2012, and use our links to join the conversation on facebook and twitter. jon huntsman dropped out of the race, as you saw. and back to mitt romney -- and he backed mitt romney. rick perry and his wife attended and events -- an event in myrtle beach sponsored by cafemom.com l.

comuntz hosted this debate. >> all right, let's talk about south carolina. how are you doing here and what is the kind of response you are getting? >> the hospitality is just fabulous. we enjoy getting to know the people of south carolina and going to the different communities. we were in georgetown the day before yesterday. one of the most beautiful cities,the history that you geto learn as you go to these states, the people, if there was not a south carolina, there would not bit a texas. there are just some great stories and history that you get to share with people. the short answer is we have had a wonderful time. anita has probably been here more than i have over the course of the campaign. she made a lot of the stops.

she was in georgetown a couple of months ago. every time i go somewhere people tell me -- we love your wife. [laughter] >> they may not be so sure about him. [laughter] >> my wife, my son, then maybe meet. that is the way it has been. i cannot tell you how many times, back when you're all on the b team, and then rick was on the top of the list as well. this whole process is stressful and it can be rough and tumble. but we are asking for your support for the most important job in the world. this is a job interview and you need to know everything that there is to know about it. what we did 30 years ago, or what we did over the last 11 years as the governor of the 13th largest economy in the

world. in need to know my vision for this country, as you do all of the other individuals standing up today. i want to give you a vision to make you feel better about the future of this country and why our children and grandchildren are going to have a better life than we had. if you are like my wife, she has great concerns about the future of this country. >> shi'a -- you have got this thing, debate after debate, rough-and-tumble, the super pac, you cannot feel the same way about this as you did when you got involved. is this process reworking when there is more negativity than ever? >> where were you when you ran -- when we ran in texas? [laughter] politics is rough and tumble. go back 150 years, look at the

advertisements that were run. it is a tough business. there are people that said things that they wish they had not said and you can reel them back in, but this is rough and tumble work. we need a tough individual who has a very powerful core and they know what they believed in. they're willing to go face-to- face with the leader of china, or the leader of russia, or for that matter that madman in iran. saying that this is what the united states is going to do. i want our allies to be very, very comfortable that america is going to stand with them. and i want our enemies to be very nervous. [applause] >> there are mothers and grandmothers here. in some cases, great grandmothers. are you prepared to look them

straight in the eye and say to them that you might send their children into battle over iran? these are their children. >> as an individual who has worn the uniform, i am the only person on stage who has volunteered to serve our country. [applause] for the last 11 years i have been the commander in chief of our national guard troops. i have seen them deployed multiple times in two theaters. the absolute last thing that i want to do as your commander in chief is put our most precious resources at risk. and we will use every tool that we have got. it is one of the reasons i am concerned about this administration and their lukewarm approach to what is going on in the middle east. whether it is wanting to negotiate rather than using every tool.

civic, overt, covert sanctions. we should have been sanctioning the iran and central bank years ago, frankly. we are not even sanctioning them now with the power that we would be sanctioned. bring them to their knees, if that is what is required. when american interests are truly impacted and the only way to defend ourselves is force, we will use it. having won that uniform and having had great knowledge about our power and ability, we will ghostwrite card. it is about winning. [applause]

>> a few days ago you called -- you referred to vulture capitalism when talking about mitt romney. some republicans were upset. i wonder if you regret saying it now. >> i think it is a term that has been used before. mitt romney's campaign consultant used it against meg whitman. the fact is this. i am about creating jobs. my record on job creation is being part of the 13th largest economy in the world. when million jobs have been created in texas because we have a climate in that state where people know that they can have a return on their investment and keep more of what they work for. that is what the president of the united states needs to be focused on.

this is a job interview. you need to know what my tax returns look like. if that is an issue, my taxes -- we put our taxes out every year, since back in the 1980's. every candidate up there, they should put their taxes out. including mitt romney. november -- excuse me, september and october is not the time to find out that there is something out there that is a problem. we need to know it now. as i talked about georgetown, i think that that is fair for us to say -- is that the right type of mentality, that american people want to see in the leader of this country? people putting a lot of debt on the country, a lot of people losing their jobs. that is the point i was making.

the bigger issue is that americans have lost confidence in washington and in wall street. congress was the facilitator in that. you want a congress with a record that has been vetted and a record of job creation and they have a vision for our children so that my son knows that he is able to go risk capital and have a chance with tax policy that i put out, that 20% flat tax policy is the reason i would pull back every regulation that has been in place. and have that philosophy instilled into this country.

do it every day. not just talk about it. people are so fed up with folks that talked about doing one of the other, and they go to washington, d.c., and nothing changes. do you think that if we change a democratic insider with a republican insider, will we get a big change? i am the outsider that will go in with an 11 year record of making a difference. our children and grandchildren will be better off for it. [applause] >> i believe we have a mom that is wedding dress to a question. >> hi, mom. >> high. -- hi. the education of our children is very important for us. i need to know, what role do you think the office of the president of the united states

of america should play in american educational policy? >> a great question. our two children are out of college now, but they were public school children all of the way through. we started our lives together and right through one of them went to private college and another went to public institution. their education, we paid a lot of attention to. anita is on the school board. we really have this love affair, in our case, with public schools and how those public schools impacted our children's ability to be prepared to be successful adults. here is one that i do not like, one that i do not agree with. that washington, d.c., should be making education policy decisions back in the states. i would do away with the

department of education. and [applause] and let me share with you why. and i think that governors and legislators, school boards, administrators, parents and teachers in the states have a substantially better idea of how to educate and the better concept of 1 fits all -- one- size-fits-all. waivers and everything. i was not in favor of no child left behind. i was certain not in favor of race to the top, where they wanted national standards and national tests. lick -- leave education of children to the states and i guarantee that not only will we get more money into the classroom, where the dollars will be spent, but decisions

will be made that are in the children's best interests. >> so often we talk about the role of mom with children. what is the role of that when it comes to educating children? >> frankly, i do not think it is any different. there should be a partnership there. people need to keep more of their money, where mom's or dad's are forced to have to go work two jobs to be able to pay for the cost of living in this country. we can do that. but government has gotten so big, we use up so much of our money.

this is more of an economic issue than it is whose role is to play in the education process. we are pulling farther and farther away from our families because we are required to work longer and longer to pay the cost of government. my whole issue, when i came to charlotte -- excuse me, came in in august to announce my candidacy, i said that my job was to make things easier for parents by taking away their tax burdens. let's let's take another question. >> my mother is in the room. both of my parents are small

amway business owners. when will you do as president to keep on sharpener ship alive in this country? -- entrepreneurship alive in this country? >> the loss of freedom, it is only one generation away. that is a quote from ronald reagan. to me, freedom comes in a lot of different descriptions. there are economic freedoms. obviously there are freedoms that the constitution is talking about. our economy is simple. i am really proud of what we have done in my home state. i tell people, you want to know how it person is going to perform in the future? look at the past. it is a very good indicator.

in 2003 we had sweeping tort reform that protected doctors and medical professionals, hospitals, from frivolous lawsuits. texas has 20,000 physicians practicing medicine. it was about access to good health care in our state, dealing with that issue. we have also kept the tax policy as light on the job creators as we can. with a regulatory climate that is fair and predictable. there is a reason that on the average 1500 people per day move into the state of texas. and it is not the great weather. there is still a perception of reality that happened because not just government -- not because government created jobs, but because they created an environment that entrepreneurs could get a return on their investment.

that is what america needs. a president that every day gets up and understands that their most important job is, other than making sure that america is protected from those who would do harm to this country, is to have those economic freedoms protected and expanded in terms of taxes and, again, a 20% flat tax. go to my website to see the entire plan, so that we do not burn up time talking about it. obviously, legal reforms as well. our best days are ahead of us in this country. there is no reason in the world to be pessimistic about the future. but we have to change presidents and change washington. [applause] >> hello, i am sally. i am from savannah lakes.

as a mother and a grandmother, what will you do to make america a place where they will want to live and also thrive. >> i will not go over my economic policy again. i think you all understand that that is really where i am such a believer, a believer in the free enterprise system and capitalism. getting that confidence that, that washington and wall street -- what happened over the last few years, when you had tarp and $800 billion worth of our main street money going over to bailout businesses that were too big to fail? my policy is that if you are too big to fail, you might be too big. then the president came in with stimulus and we have been in this experiment of keynesian

politics. i have got to ask you, are you better off today than you were $4 trillion ago? >> no. >> getting this country back to have confidence, the men and women in washington, d.c., really understand what is going on in their life. i happen to think that it makes ultimate, good sense, as our founding fathers did, that members of congress should not be a full-time job. they should go into washington for a set period of time and get their work done. i would even consider doing budgeting over two year cycles with a balanced budget amendment to the united states constitution where you cannot spend more money than you have coming in. have those members live under

the laws that they pass, with real jobs like everyone else has. that is what we do in texas. it works well. 140 days every year. they get their work done and they come back home to take care of the real job. [laughter] -- [applause] >> before we go on, it is a privilege to introduce your better half. please welcome anita perry. [applause] this is done because this guy wants to get on television. [laughter] compe wants a workers'

filing. [laughter] everyone asks what life would be like -- how their spouse has added to them. can you tell me how your life would have been different if anita had not been your wife? >> you have to understand, she is the first girl i ever had a date with. >> you met in elementary school, right? >> i live out in the country, she lived in town. her father was a family practitioner. he was my physician. i knew she was. 16 years, we dated. yes, she was a hard sell. [laughter] she thought that i was pretty cool when i was a pilot in the air force. when i came back home and started farming again, i lost a

lot of cool. it took me another five years of begging and pleading and winding -- whining. i cannot imagine my life without her. >> what she had to you? what do you talk about? policy? do you talk about the challenges that you face? >> she has incredible instincts. she has that proverbial 6 cents about people and issues. when i fall op, which i do, on a more regular basis that i would like to admit -- [laughter] she is always there to share with me how i could have done a different. [laughter] and if i had asked her first, it

would not have happened. [laughter] we truly do have a partnership from the standpoint of -- she has done this. she ran for office. she ran against five other people for school board and she won without a runoff. she has been in the arena and understands the trials and tribulations. she knows the scrutiny that children have. that we have. i consider her to be my best friend. she is the person -- i mean, if i just had to walk away from all of this, if she was walking with me, it will all be ok. [applause]

>> i am curious. given all the media portrayals of your husband the you are watching and reading every day, what is out there that is an accurate? i know it must be hard for you to sit silently by. >> actually, i do not. i have almost stopped reading the internet. i have watched the news. but you cannot do that. it does not just happen to us. it happens to all of the candidates. it is unfair. he is a smart, intelligent leader. he set the climate in texas to create jobs. i am very proud of him. we put ourselves out there, as every candidate does. we expect to be scrutinized on every level. it is hard, the closer that we get.

>> is it you? you both grabbed each other when you sat down. is it you that grabs his hand? or is it he that grabs your hand? >> it depends on the issue. [laughter] if there is a big bump on the airplane, it is her grabbing me. if it is something to do with health care, it is me grabbing her. [laughter] i know what she is a professional at. she knows what i am a professional at. >> let's take another question. >> good morning, governor and mrs. perry. thank you for being here. your all modern is in the sec. -- of modern -- alma mater is in

the sec, so we will see you. my concern is the curriculum slash liberal indoctrination that our children are subjected to in school. i know that texas has a big influence on what goes into textbooks. and i do not think it is textbooks. but what is your vision for education? >> you want to? >> she asked you. >> i go back to my argument that those issues should be decided that the state level. we have big fights in texas over the content of the textbooks. it is a big back and forth. we left our school -- excuse me,

our state board of education is elected. the challenge is for you, as the citizens of your state, to be actively engaged with that. i know that each state has may be different ways of setting up the board of education, or whenever it might be called. it is your responsibility to be engaged in a public arena so that your values are reflected. our state board of education actively is engaged in the content. i put it on you. if we are going to be a country of we, the people, and hopefully, you know, the two- party and conservatives really understand that our country is in jeopardy.

and a way of life in this country is in jeopardy. not just economically. i will tell you, when i see the department of justice, this administration's department of justice coming into south carolina and suing to stop this states immigration laws, suing to stop the identification billy you had, and the national labor relations board trying to leverage bowing to not come into this state unless the unions had their way -- boeing not to come into this state unless unions had their way? in my opinion, that is irresponsible. [applause] >> mrs. perry, we have an online member that have a question for you. "of all of the disagreements you have had throughout your marriage, which one sticks out most?

>> my gosh. [laughter] of the one that sticks out most? >> we have not had that many. we really do not. >> who apologizes first? >> he does. [laughter] you know, there is no really great, tumultuous decision or argument that we have. >> life is too short. >> i think that she realized. >> we dated for 16 years. it is not like i did not know her pretty well. 45 years, i have known her. i am not interested in watching that on the television? me neither. i love her. she loves me.

we really do not have -- we just do not have those kinds of arguments. i tell people on a regular basis how blessed i am to be married to her. i know that some folks have these knock down drag out, but we just do not. >> you have said the word last. you and i have run into each other on the campaign trail. she says she prays for you. i believe her. it is a special thing for me, when she says that. what does prayer and faith mean for both of you in your life? >> i do not think that you can get through this without faith and prayer. the longer that we are in it, the more dependent upon that faith and prayer that i become. it is uncanny, the people and the friends who send a message.

it is a biblical version, a devotion of their friend in georgia. is it not amazing, when you open the bible and it gives you the guidance that you need for that day? for me, my faith, my prayer has become much stronger. >> it is very true. i tell people -- god did not tell me "i want you running." but there were certainly things that i tested got on before i made the decision on this. -- tested god on before i made the decision on this. i needed to fill comfortable in my heart. you sure to tell me that i would win. [laughter] but i do know i am doing god's will for my life. i agree with nita.

my life, particularly my ski -- my spiritual life has been substantially strengthened. i have matured as a question over the last six months. i think about, as joshua said -- i am asked what my favorite scripture is, right now it is joshua number one, number nine, where he is told to be courageous and unafraid because god will always be with him. as we go through this process and you look around, looking behind you in the parade you are leading, that is ok. the one person that you need to have in your rate is always there. [applause]

>> another question? >> my name is grace. when you said in the past about illegal aliens gaining in-state tuition, my question is, why do you let them get in state tuition for our schools? texas schools, especially, when there are other kids in a great state that might want to come to a texas school and pay out of state tuition? i have a heart. i understand it is good for them to go to school. but that is a big money issue. >> the bigger issue, and i am going to directly address would you have asked, but the bigger issue is that the federal government has failed abysmally at securing our border. do you agree? >> yes. >> it is the reason that south carolina passed an immigration

law. we have had to do things in the state of texas that we were forced to do because the federal government absolutely failed. we have spent $400 million on border security in texas today. just last month i deployed two gunboats to the border of mexico. these are 30 foot, kevlar impregnated boats. this is what you would expect to see in a war zone. there are places on the border where it is a war zone. we made the comment -- the president made the comment that the border is as safe as it has ever been. he is so out of touch. my point is, i know how to secure the border. when i am president, there will be thousands of troops on the border. we will have strategic fencing

and planes in the air, 24/7, so that we know when the activities occur on the border. when a individuals cross, we can set -- send teams to stop the activities. we need a president who will commit to do that. on the education issue, the federal government demands, by law, that you take care of individuals in your state, regardless of their immigration status. texans were faced with this. you are either going to have a group of people that are tax wasters or taxpayers. they are there. they will be on your welfare rolls, your prisons, engaging in activities that will cost your state, or you're going to give

-- you're going to say the you're going to get in line and work on gaining citizenship. if you go to a texas college, you will pay full in-state tuition. of 181 members of the legislature, there were only four dissenting votes. this was a straight up economic issue for texas. look, i would never say that this is what you should do in south carolina. you should make that decision on your own. i would never support it at the federal level. i am not for amnesty in any fashion. to deal with that issue in a way that we did made economic sense. texans still agree, by and large, that that was the best way to deal with it. if you live in the state of texas for three years, you pay that in state tuition. >> we have a young man that

wants to ask a question. how old are you? >> 10. >> go ahead. >> hello. my name is john and i am 10 years old. i have been following this race pretty closely. [laughter] describe what life will be like if you become president, in 25 years, for me and my kids. [laughter] [applause] >> a great question. [applause] >> be careful, he is not smiling. >> john, you will be 35 years old. i hope you will be smiling when you are 35 years old, because there was a generation before you that had the courage to make decisions that were hard decisions to reduce the size of

government so that you could have more freedom. i am talking about freedom from over-taxation, regulation and litigation. and we kept the freedoms that people who hate us would try to take away. i refer to making sure that we keep a strong military to defend this country from those that hate us, for whatever reason. to do that, we must first have a strong economy. our whole existence goes back to making sure that we have tax policy and regulatory policy in place that allows for the of entrepreneurs to know that they have return on their investment. if we cannot do that, we cannot have the resources to keep up with research and development to maintain a superior edge against

countries like china. we cannot have a moderate navy the we're going to need -- that we are going to require. my pledge to you is this. i am not going to tell you that america will look like my home state. but those basic blueprints of economic prosperity that we put in place there, and arguably, in my opinion -- inarguably, in my opinion, and i believe this with my whole heart, texas is the best economic climate in america. it did not happen by accident. we make hard decisions that allow the state to flourish. it's still flourishes today. we can do that in america.

we need citizens that will rise up. we will say that we will no longer except washington, d.c., not listening to us about taxes being too high and regulations been too onerous. we need a president who is an outsider and has the courage to walk in there. and you stop spending money that you do not have to, so that your generation and have the freedom that you deserve. [applause] >> john, if i may, i want to follow up on that. the governor and i decided to get into this race -- it was after we look around, and we do have two children. remember when the worst thing that could happen on a bicycle was you took a wrong turn in

your neighborhood and a neighbor would call? and i just want you to know? that is what we want. when we looked around, we wanted -- and as a mother, i want every young person to have the same opportunity that we had growing up. also, that we live safe. as a mother and future grandmother, i want our world to be safe. >> pressure is on a [laughter] . -- pressure is on. [laughter] >> will be one for you is the safety and a job, and a wonderful future and safe environment, and healthiest environment you could have to raise your children in -- what we want for you is the safety and jobs, and wonderful future

and safe environment, and healthy environment you could have for your children. >> how old are you? >> 28. >> what do you want for your son? >> i want him to be happy. he has already found the most beautiful, smart, capable young lady to be his wife. i do not know, four or five children? [laughter] and happiness comes in so many forms and fashions. i realize that money and the access to money is not going to bring you happiness. but the other side of that is that we live in a world where government continues to get bigger and bigger.

our liberties become smaller and smaller. that was not the vision of our founding fathers. i want to go back. some people may think it is old- fashioned, but i want to go back to a reflection of those limited powers that our founding fathers had over a federal government. that the states, when we talk about the powers delegated to the states by the constitution, reserve for the states and the people, the simplicity of that 10th amendment. then people can kind of pick and choose. if you want to live in a state with heavy regulatory burdens, or individual mandated insurance that you have to buy, you can go live in massachusetts. [laughter] [applause]

or you can go live where the environment is more to your liking. that is the beauty of our founding fathers. that is the happiness, frankly, that i want for americans. go and find that state that best reflects your values and not live under this one-size-fits- all mentality. >> the other thing i might add is the debt. i have cried every time with the miracle of birth. i am a nurse. but the amount of debt, we can truly make a difference in

washington. >> another question? >> my name is laura brooks. my husband and i, we have three children. the lord gave them to us to raise. that being said, where do you stand with the line between parental rights and the government telling us what we cannot do? what would you do to protect our rights in decisions like schooling, religious freedom, nutrition. rights stopnment's at your front door. when it comes to dealing with your children. i am a very strong proponent of home schooling. timothy lambert, the head of the texas homeschooling coalition, we get pointed out on a regular basis as being a state that has some of the best homeschooling environments. we protect the rights of the

parents. we have gone to court to do that. we have passed laws in the state of texas. as a president, i would be for more -- promoting that same type of protection, whether you are home school or private school, whatever it might be. parental rights are paramount. unless there is clear evidence of abuse, it is on the government and the business what you -- it is not on the government to be in the business of your children. [applause] >> you are very clear about what you do not want the government to do. when you hear the pledge of allegiance, star spangled banner, or god bless america, what do you think, personally? >> i think that it goes back to

the way that i was raised and the values that i learned. my father was a tail gunner in 1944. i cannot tell you how many hundreds of missions my father flew. the love of america was instilled in us by a parent. my school board president was also my sunday school superintendent and my scoutmaster. there was a lot of multitasking. by basketball coach, my civics teacher, and he drove a school bus. he was also a marine. loving america, loving the values of this country, it was instilled in us at home and in

school, as well as church. and i am boy scouts. when i went on to texas a&m and volunteered in the air force, i had opportunities all over the world. i only left texas a handful of times in my life. i did not know how other people live or how other governments treated their people until i lived in saudi arabia, iran, and all of these european countries. i saw monarchies and geographies -- theocracy's, different types of dictatorships. at that point in time, as a 26- year-old young man, it became so clear to me what an uncut -- incredible country i lived in. what those people had taught me

was so powerful. when that flag goes up at a ball game and we see the words, they are really special. they are a powerful thing. when i am standing on that stage, getting ready to debate, i am standing at attention. i am standing with my hand over my heart. to reflect my belief in this great an incredible country. we believe that the symbols of the country should never, ever be used in any other way than to hold up america and its great freedoms. and the hope that it reflects.

[applause] >> your faith, your commitment to traditional family values, having a big part of this campaign. america is filled with many faiths systems and beliefs. what do you have to say to them? those that do not look like you, who have different beliefs systems? how can you be a of president and what message do you have for them? >> the fact is that my faith teaches me to love them, regardless of their lifestyles. it also teaches me to hate their san. -- sin. that goes to the issue of traditional marriage. there are some very good things that come out of individuals who have that lifestyle.

but my faith teaches me, very clearly, that that act is an act of sin. but i love them. i would never not love them. that is the powerful message of my faith. the founding fathers were wise and fought for freedom of religion. not freedom from religion. regardless of your religion, you will be free to practice it. but this country was founded upon judeo hurt -- judeo- christian values. >> amen! [applause] >> people can argue that jefferson was deist, and that is a fine argument, but the truth is this country was founded on

judeo-christian values. as we allow -- whether it is political correctness or if it is active -- activists in robes on the supreme court to chip away at those values, it hurts the american foundation. as president of the united states, you will see me put strict constructionist, court. you will also see me being very open to individuals who are different for me. but i will always love them. i will not compromise my principles from the standpoint of saying that i have to accept something that i think -- that you think is ok, but my values, and frankly the voters in the states have said we are not going to except as an act that goes against 3000 years of

tradition in this country. >> my name is tara hanes. i have a 17-year-old son who is an eagle scout. i found out that you are also. i know that in the future he is going to hit a number of obstacles, growing up in general. what obstacles did you come across when you receive your eagle rank? as president, how will you remove them? >> here is a message for every young boy, as they are working their way through scouting. it is the only thing that you will do as a young person that will be a on yourresume when -- the on your -- be on your resume

when you are 50 years old. it is why you have to really work to get your ego. when it says eagle scout, i know something about them without having ever met them. i know something about them as a young person, somewhere between the age of 12 and 17, they went through a long and laborious process, following a rule book, a road map to the completion of a long project. their mother probably spent a lot of time -- [laughter] prodding them and poking them to finish this, because they understand something. as an employer is making a decision about who they want to be on their team and they see eagle scout, they know that that young person has the characteristics embedded in them as a young person.

if they had it at the aged -- ages of 12 to 17, chances are they will still have those characteristics by the age of 71. >> i know that we are getting close to the end and i want to give you an opportunity -- i do not know what direction you will take at. we will be sitting on the stage tonight, one candidate less. as you can see, behind you, there are a lot more people watching. there are many people out there comparing you and governor romney. what would you say to the people watching? >> governor romney is a good man. we have got to know each other over the course of the campaign. but americans have a decision to make.

we are applying to work for you. we are applying to be the chief executive officer of this country. i disagree with rick santorum. it is a ceo job. and it is commander-in-chief. i have done the mall. as i said earlier, do you think that changing an insider with another insider, whether it is a wall street insider or a washington insider, is that really going to change washington, d.c.? i am the one person on the stage that is an outsider. that has a record of the 11 years' worth of operating a major institute. working in the same environment where democrats and republicans have been successful, i am the one individual who has been a

consistent social and fiscal conservative for my entire life. for that reason, i asked you to vote your values and who you think can step in to that race. i cannot wait to get on the stage and draw the stark contrast between myself, my record, and barack obama. [applause] >> what would you like non- voters out there to know about your system? >> i would like them to know that we did not take this decision lightly. we put ourselves out there. two things come to my mind. we need a leader. my husband is a leader and the longest serving governor in the state of texas. he knows how to create that environment for jobs.

we want the america that we had growing up. i want everyone to really look at his record. do not listen to the rhetoric. he can get america back. [applause] >> the cameras are going to want to focus on this. i am trying to read this. which is cooler? [unintelligible] >> 1824 in the back. the front of the boots says? >> i use these to go to schools to teach history from time to time. the flag on the front was made

from a wedding dress in 1835, in a little town, where the frontier, where the mexican government had been unfair to texans. they had loaned us a couple of cannons to protect against the indians. they thought about, saying that may be giving those texans those cannons was not such a good idea. they sent an envoy to rest for the canon back. the flag was made and they said, and take it. the first shot was fired as part of the revolution at gonzales. they tried to take the cannons and they were unsuccessful. the flag on the back, the

message had the date 1824 embroidered in the middle. that is the flag that is flying at the alamo. the reason that 1824 is on there is that that is the date that the constitution's, texans were living under mexican rule at that time. they flew that over the alamo to remind the generals that they were in there because they did not live up to your word on this constitution. the alamo did not turn out that well for us. [laughter] six weeks later, at a place [unintelligible] called sam houston -- place called [unintelligible] the republic of texas was created. it is thanks to people like james butler and william travis that a lot of folks from tennessee, who came to fight for freedom, it reminds me about

service and sacrifice. i like to tell young people that i do not care if you joined the peace corps or the marine corps, but you have got to get back to this country. not free, we are one generation away from losing our freedoms. and that, i will suggest to you, is the most important issue in this election. [applause] >> i did not expect a history lesson, but thank you. >> we will be back here at 1:00. there will be a special message recorded just for you from stephen colbert. [laughter] do you have a message for stephen colbert. >> senator rick santorum will be

here. thank you very much. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

[inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations]

the dodgers leading up to the south carolina primary, wrote to the white house coverage takes you live to the candidate events this week. >> we need to eliminate entitlement programs, cut them, cap them, send them to the states, remove the federal oversight, and let the states have the flexibility to deliver these programs. >> we have brought to the forefront, others have talked about it. they get into office and do nothing about it. it is this liberty movement that is seen as a patriotic movement, we have had enough of sending our kids and our money around

the world, it is time to bring them home. >> thank you, thank you so much. >> we feel very good about that. the conservatives are coalesce and around our campaign and that will be good for us. a >> find more video from the campaign trail. >> as the u.s. house returns from break tomorrow, nancy pelosi talks with politico correspond mike allen. she talks about what to expect from this congress.

>> there is a tectonics' if that happened online where people's privacy is no longer owned by them, it is essentially currency that we use to get access to facebook or gmail. >> the new york times technology columnist on the impact of changing technology in business, the media, and everyday life. >> today marks the first martin luther king holiday that visitors were able to celebrate at the mlk memorial. the sculpture is 30 feet tall, emerging from a mountain of despair. the memorial is covered with quotations. one will be changed, though.

as the washington post reports, it was found to be taken out of contact. some changes that people visiting here today on martin luther king, jr. memorial day.

>> president obama and his family were among those around the country that are the legacy of the civil rights leader. they used the day to volunteer in their community. next, tavis smiley moderated a forum about poverty in america. speakers include princeton university professor, cnbc correspondent, and more. they spoke for about 2.5 hours. >> 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. [applause] >> good evening.

this promises to be a rich and in power in conversation about the one issue that threatens to be caring the issue of poverty apart. we want to change that unapologetically but with humility. we want to change that to make sure that we do everything that we can to push the issue of poverty high up on the american agenda to figure out a plan to not just reducing poverty but i want to be able to try and talk about eradicating paula -- poverty. [applause] so i am delighted that we are back here again this year, as we were last year on the campus of george washington university. please think the president and campus for having us back this year. [applause]

we conduct these annual symposia to get out of the studio in los angeles and get out into the country, into the nation to cona to get out of the studio in los angeles and get out into the country, into the nation to talk about issues that we think matter. we are delighted that we are live on c-span. before i go any further, c-span has always been so gracious to cover these conversations now for -- i guess i lost count. 13 of 14 years we have been doing these annual symposium. please show your love for c-span for carrying us live to the nation tonight. [applause] c-span, we thank you. we appreciate it. i also want to welcome those listening live over radio in new york city on wbai. welcome to this conversation called "remaking america: from poverty to prosperity." delighted to have you turned in to this conversation, again, here on the campus of george

washington university. i could say so much more about poverty, but i do not need to because to my left and my right, i am is surrounded by experts. not just experts, but i would say long distance runners on the issue of trying to reduce and eradicate poverty in this country, and i could not be more delighted to be joined by an auguste panel. let me introduce them to you right now so we can jump straightaway into this conversation. she's the woman who coined the term, and i love it -- "green the ghetto." host of the peabody award winning program cassette and promised wan," please welcome my friend, majora carter. [applause] -- "the promised land." i am always happy to brag on her. years ago, she was one of the macarthur genius is, so we are glad to have a genius on the stage with us tonight. next is the best-selling author

of more than a dozen books, including "nickeled and dimed" and "bait and switched," please welcome barbara ehrenreich. he's a princeton professor, one of the nation's leading public intellectuals, who i'm honored to say as michael was on a national public radio program weekly, and i am also honored to be joined with him on our new book, "the rich and the rest of us: a party manifesto." please welcome dr. cornel west. -- a party manifesto." let's try this, what i said michael, you say moore. michael.

>> moore. >> academy award winner michael moore, the author of "here comes trouble." [applause] dr. west and i had the honor today earlier to be alongside this next person standing on either side of her as she made an announcement to the nation and the world that i think will literally turned the financial services industry on its head. it was that big a deal. the announcement that she made earlier today at the national press club. she is the author most recently kebab "the money class -- the author most recently of "the money class." nobody knows the difficulty of navigating poverty in this country better than the leading expert in the country. please welcome our friend, suze orman. [applause] she is the president and ceo of

feeding america, a wonderful non-profit designed to combat the scourge of hunger and poverty in this country. please welcome our friend vicki b. escarra. finally, the president of the inside center on community economic development and an editor of -- co-editor of "building help the community's." please welcome our friend from oakland, roger clay. [applause] we have here on c-span tonight to a half hours to talk about poverty. that might be the most time ever given to a conversation uninterrupted without commercials about poverty in this country, and i want to take advantage of every minute of it and jump right into the conversation. barber, i am honored you are here. i want to start with you because the numbers have been coming out so much of late. it lies in the last three or four months of 2011, it seemed

that every other day, there was a new statistics coming out about how things really are. the most recent one, though, from the census bureau. our government finds that one in two americans is either in poverty or near poverty. i was no math major, but i think that means half the country. if you add three categories together, the perennially poor, the newport -- the new poor, and talking poor, you're 150 million americans. i want to ask -- how did it get this bad? >> let me say about those numbers, there has been an idea for a long time that the poor are some special group, some special demographic, over there somewhere. we have to face, we are not talking about someone else. we are talking about almost half of america's struggling.

that goes for the senior citizen who cannot make it on social security, the young person who cannot pay off student loan debt. it is the low-wage worker at walmart or something like that. it is a massive phenomenon. but we are going to have a whole discussion about how we got this way, so i will just throw out one possible cause. a theory coming for a long time not only from the right but some democrats is that hardly means there's something wrong with your character, that you have got bad habits. you have added that lifestyle. you have made the wrong choices. -- you have a bad life style. you have made the wrong choices. are like to present an alternative theory which is that poverty is not a character flaw. poverty is a shortage of money. [applause] the biggest reason for that shortage of money is that most

working people are not paid enough for their work. [applause] >> how much of the drama that poor people are entering now you think has to do with the demonization, a criminalization of poor people? >> yes, absolutely. if you go out now to get a job, a low-wage job, $8 or $9 an hour, you will be drug tested, personality tested. all the questions will be whether you like to steal, with the like to sell cocaine in the break room, things like that. -- whether you like to sell cocaine in the break room, things like that. there is an assumption that if you are poor, you are a criminal, which the public sector does its best to make come true. police harassment. some of it is very racially charged, too.

[applause] there is the idea that if you are poor, there is something wrong with you, and you should probably end up incarcerated. >> dr. west, i want to come to your next because i want to build on what barbara has laid out for us, at least in terms of how it got to be this way. indiana university this week released a white paper called "at risk" which details what this great recession has done to the american public. there is a lot we will pick apart, but let me start with this -- it is pretty clear from this report that the new poor in this country are the former middleclass. typically, politicians love -- i'd guess there poles must encourage them to speak to the banks of the middle-class voter, but how do you talk to the middle-class in ways similar to the past if the new poor in this

country have enough to be the former middle-class? >> first, i want to salute you in your leadership. give rather tavis -- brother tavis a hand. very important. i was blessed to go to 18 cities in seven days with him on the poverty tour that he came up with and his team facilitated. we were able to see the middle class brothers and sisters of all colors, all cultures, all civilizations, and sexual orientations. there were also immigrants. our brown brothers and sisters. they were black, brown, white. we started on the indian reservation. it is always fascinating to look at america through the lens of the original people. very important starting point. the original people. [applause] we began with the notion that poor people are priceless and precious.

each individual has the dignity that ought to be affirmed. and what did we see? we saw the results of a system in place that has been driven by corporate greed at the top with oligarchs ruling and politicians rotating with money coming from the big bank, big corporations pushing working people to the margins and rendering poor people superfluous, which is to say either unnecessary, or in the great metaphor of ralph ellison, invisible. anytime you talk about poor people, you have to talk about the larger systemic context. how could it be that the top 400 individuals have wells equivalent to the bottom 150 million fellow citizens -- well -- wealth equivalent to the

bottom 150 million a fellow citizens? there is something sick about that. people said that it is because they deserve it because they are so smart. i know some smart people that are broke as the 10 commandments. they just cannot get a job. if 1% of the population owns 40% of the wealth and 56% of our precious children of all colors live in or near poverty, something is deeply wrong. it is morally obscene. how could it be that poverty has not become the major moral issue of our time? because our leaders lack courage and independence. they are too tied to big money. [applause] how could it be that the presidential complex has been expanding and $300 billion has gone into jails and prisons in the criminal-justice system, but when it comes for money for schools, money for housing, money for jobs with a living wage, it is a warped system.

we're here because martin luther king, jr., and others said america is a sick society. america does not always have to be sick that americans rise up the way the occupy move that has been talking about and talk about these issues seriously. this is what the issue of poverty as it affects -- the middle class is now declining. if it were just a matter of black, brown, and red, we would be voices in the wilderness. [applause] as long as there is a black face or a brown face on poverty, we overlook it. as long as there is a brown face, we overlooked it pure white, middle-class base, we have a problem now. we have to deal with it. [laughter] and that is fine because we believe what brothers and sisters have the same values as red and brown and black and yellow -- we believe white

brothers and sisters have the same values. that is why i am is so excited about the manifesto we wrote, brother, and we had a good time writing that thing. we did. >> let me go to roger clay on the other in because i think he can speak to something that dr. west raises. let's play with it. dr. west suggest -- if i could put it in this way -- that party in this country for too many of us is color coded. how much of -- let's tease out what dr. west has given us to work with -- how much of our lack of will to address, here to for at least, the poverty question has to do with the fact that poverty is so color coded? >> a huge amount. let me throw out an interesting statistic. right now, the unemployment rate is around 8%. 7.9? then at 8.5%.

-- >> 8.5%. >> i went back and looked over the last 40 years to see what the unemployment rate was for blacks. only in one year has it been lower than what it is now. to support what you are saying, black folks have been in it for a long, long time, but no one paid attention because they look at the unemployment rate for everybody and not the various populations. i think it is a good example of what happens in looking at a lot of problems over a lot of different racial minorities. if it does not hit the white community, it did not happen. it did not exist. what is happening now is there are a lot of white folks who have fallen out of the middle class or are in danger of it, so now, it is a problem, but it was not a problem before, and black folks have been there for that entire time, the last 40 or 50

years, since we have been keeping statistics, and of course, much longer before that. >> one of the arguments you are hearing, michael -- it is hard to ask michael a loaded question because it is just more fun that way. part of what we are hearing from some of those white folks, michael, is that what this conversation represents its class a and b -- class envy. people are jealous, hitting on other people. we are a bunch of haters on all the folks who have money. up to me about the issue. that is the argument -- i literally saw it on the news tonight. mitt romney used that phrase, that it is envy on the part of many americans against those who happen to be well-off. >> it is war. it is a class war that has been perpetrated by the rich on to everybody else.

that is a class war. it is one they started. the mistake they made, to deal with the racial card of this, is there but has been on the next of people of color -- their boot has been on the necks of people of color since we began. this was a nation founded on genocide and built on the backs of slaves. [applause] we started with a racial problem. we tried to actually eliminate one entire race, and then we used another to build this country actually quite quickly into a world power. this country never would have had the wealth that it had had it not had slavery for a couple of hundred years. [applause] if it had had to pay people -- if they had actually had to pay people to build america, we might just be at that point in utah where we are joining the

two rails together may be at this point right now. [laughter] here is what i find really interesting -- corporate america and wall street -- they are always thinking about -- "what is in it for us? how is it going to work for us?" they actually need party. they need poor people. the system does not work unless there is a good chunk of poor people. -- they actually need poverty. they had a permanent port class, mostly people of color -- they had a permanent class of poor that they could use as essentially a threat to the middle class. "if you ask for too much, if you ask for higher wages, if you expect health benefits, it you want a day off, you could very quickly be over there with those people -- if you want a day off. they knew how to use this group

to manipulate this group. the huge catastrophic tactical mistake that they have made, because of their incredible greed -- and they came up with it essentially because of the housing thing. after they used the poor, they thought they were not making enough money, so what could they get off of the middle class. well, wait a minute, they all own homes. let's do the mortgage thing. this was before they went into the inner city to connive and scam poor people. they have been doing that for a long time. the idea over the 1990's and as part of the last decade was to figure out how to make the call middle-class -- essentially put the one thing they had some investments in -- their home -- up to either get a second mortgage or to get a better home or whatever, and they figured

out -- this is what is really amazing to me, just thinking about this, because president obama just appointed jack lew as his new chief of staff. if you do not know who he is, he ran the operation of citibank a few years ago. he ran the particular department at citibank -- the hedge fund department that was assigned to take out bets against the housing industry, that it would collapse. he ran the department to bet on the housing mortgage industry collapsing. that is now the white house chief of staff. >> boo! >> the mistake the wealthy have made and why we have this whole occupy wall street movement, a poll of 76 percent of americans believing taxes should be raised on the rich -- you have never

seen that number because they have always convinced the middle-class that they could be there. they could be rich someday. "we will not because in america, anybody can make it. i might be used someday." [laughter] hooray for welfare, right? they made the huge mistake of taking that away from the white middle class. they went after them. they went after their homes. they moved their jobs overseas. they took their health care away. they made it so their children would be the first generation in the history of this country who would be worse off than their parents' generation. i remember saying this on your show a decade ago, tavis, that when this thing -- you have always asked me when it is going to happen, when people are going to stand up. you show a clip of me on your show. i am down there wrapping crime

scene tape around the stock exchange on the back of a brinks truck up to goldman sachs to get our money back, and i am all by myself. [applause] you kept asking me when the revolution was going to happen, and i said that it would happen -- it is when they will, and they will, go after the people who have things and try to take them away from them. it is one thing you have always been poor and you have never owned that nice house, never been able to take that european vacation. you wished that you could, but you really do not know really what it is like. but if you have been in the middle class and you have had that nice home and that vacation, and you have been able to send your children to the university, and now, the system says, "we are taking that away from you," now there is

hell to pay, and that is what is happening. the final thing i want to say is that what i do not understand is that wall street and the banks -- they have so overplayed their hand here. they should have just east of a year or two ago, you know? they should have just backed off, and they could have had their larger class of permanent war, but i think it works in their benefit. why would we have poverty -- if wall street and the rich got poverty was bad, they could erase it. if they really thought it was not good for them, right? they have the means to get rid of it. they would get rid of it. but they do not. they need it. they need this large -- half the country -- living in anxiety and fear and the other half over here are the ones that they will sell their goods to. that is really actually messed

up economics because they have been going for the short-term gain. sooner or later, they are not going to make their money on that. sooner or later, the chinese are not going to be in poverty. people are going to rise up in other countries. you will not be able to go over there and do this for 10 cents an hour. people eventually what was good for themselves and for their kids, and i think they have made a colossal mistake. i think you're going to see -- you are seeing it now -- this large group of the american public -- 150 million -- rising up. [applause] >> this conversation out here at george washington is made possible thanks to the general -- generous support of the kellogg foundation, so thank the kellogg foundation for making this possible. there's a particular question submitted from the kellogg website that i wanted to get to

tonight. it is a great segue to you, suze. michael just referenced the number of americans who have always been poor. i call them the perennially poor. all too often, children who grow up in poverty tend to stay in poverty. what factors do you really contribute to this lifelong trajectory among american families? that phrase got me -- this lifelong trajectory amongst too many american families? we know suze orman as the most regarded financial expert in this country, to my mind. you might not know that white suze grew up on the black side, the south side of chicago. [applause] in a whole lot of poverty. obviously, she has made her way out of that, but she has a unique perspective on the

perennially poor in this country that might -- again, not seem plausible at first glance. talk to me again about what keeps people in poverty. >> what is interesting is this -- and i will take a little different approach if i can -- >> you certainly can. >> years ago, i have told people, "people, be careful. the rich are getting richer. the poor are getting poorer, and sooner than later, the middle class will not exist." the people that call into the show now used to be middle- class. i am here to tell you, they are all now in poverty. the face of poverty has changed. the face of poverty is the person sitting next to you. it is every single color. what keeps us in poverty is that there is a highway into poverty,

and it is no longer even a sidewalk out. to get out of poverty, you have to have a source of income. you have to have the ability to generate money so that you are not poor. it is not brain science, but you cannot make money if there is not a job for you to have. even if you do make money, you cannot afford to pay things, especially when you see the prices of food out there and what it costs. everything is set up, as michael has said, that once you are poor, they have you exactly where they want you. i do not give them as much credit as you do in that i do not think they are smart enough to know what they did, purposely. [applause] i do not. i think they go after money, and we do not know what to do because we are educated. we are not educated on monday. when someone says to, "signed here, you can have your american

dream," you believe them, and you believe them because you want more for yourself, and why would they lie to you? well, they did, everybody. the one thing i can tell you -- people always say to me when i'm on the shows, "they knew what they were doing. they knew how to sign those papers. do not tell me that they did not get themselves in poverty." i will never forget it was in 2008, oprah asked me, "how is this all happening?" my answer is very simple -- the lies, deceit, and the greed of the corporations and wall street and the banking institutions. it was just that simple. all of you fell for their scams. so you stay in poverty. when nobody can teach you how to get out of it because there are no tools for you to dig your way

out of this whole. there is no tools that they are providing for you, but i am convinced that with the right type of education and with some new tools that could aid the people in poverty, that they can get themselves out, but if you are counting on the administration to get you out, if you are counting on the economy to get you out, if you are counting on any other country to get you out, i am here to tell you, you are fooling yourself. there is you have got to give power to your voice and settle for last -- and not settle for less. what changes is when people start to boys how unhappy they are. if you are simply stopped from the corporations that are

keeping me down. >> i'm going to come back to susie. i mention that she may gain major announcement. i want to come back to that in a second. i want to ask majora a question about poverty, alleviation, and environmental remediation. i want to ask that, majora, andause poorr people not just that in poverty. so often they are stuck in certain pockets, a certain neighborhoods. they cannot get out.

often there is no transportation. there is an varmint to racism. there is a link between poverty and environment. >> thank you. my work has been based that it could be used as a toll to create economic -- tool to treat economic stability. i am known for transforming dumps into parks. what they did was provide a visual reminder that because they look that way they do not have to be there always. no community should have to bear the brunt.

we know that race and class is both. it will determine where you find a good step. it is not just that those are not nice things to be around. they also produce some others. whether it is because of fossiltory problems or fuels causing learning disabilities. it adds to the complex. it has the fabric of our communities. it stabilizes families. it does not provide the different type of development.

it can provide different jobs. it may seem very excited. we have seen in countries. we have seen in inner-city ghettos. there is hope in opportunity that we have missed a lot of. the fact that we can create a new economic opportunities around things like how do we adapt our country, in particular our coastal areas? we can use environmentally sound ways to support things like storm water management and energy conservation while creating real jobs that provide opportunities for people who have been left behind by our education system for so long. whether it is urban forestry

management, things of that nature that provide municipal services as well. it aspires to really help and do the unintended consequences. it made it so that we are more racially segregated. once we have integration, those that have more money were able to leave. if we can use real-estate development to creaturely mixed income communities, bring back the resources so poor people are not always so poor, burning things like manufacturing and other commercial opportunities while keeping an eye toward the environment li-sao things that do not continue to destroy the fabric of our community.

we can do that. we can do it. we can do more of it. >> i want to get vicki involved. there has been for a few years, i think about the number of times i have asked of this of use and others of my programs. it is about the notion of bringing -- greening the ghetto and the way to let people out of poverty was to do just that, to find a green jobs for those persons. has that turned out to be a bunch a rhetoric? can you point any of us to a place where we have seen green jobs come on line? >> we have not seen the kind of

green job creation that i was hoping would happen in the south bronx. it really was looking at how you create markets for the kind of jobs that need to be done at in our economy and make sure their training people to do that work. they make sure there are jobs on the other end of it. that type of work was something that was needed in our city. we knew it. it was helping. we know those type of things actually helped reduce -- improve air quality. you want to do things of that nature. the problem that i have seen is that some of my most well- meaning peers have put the cart

before the horse. we could either chain people to the market ripe enough? we did not do that work. >> i appreciate your patience. >> i love that modesty. it is perfect timing. what she was talking about in these pockets of poverty are the people get stuck with these conditions. one of the things you know better than anybody is that in these pockets of poverty people have access to less food, fruit, meat, vegetables, etc. they are exposed to less. when most americans think about hunger and food and security,

they do not think of it as an american problem. they think about the infomercial's we see on late- night television. the african babies with big bellies. talk to me about what the numbers are saying about hunger in america right now. >> the numbers are huge. there are 50 million americans that are hungry. they do not know when their next meal will come. they're worrying about how they will speak to their children. they come in on monday morning with not enough to eat. they are fidgety and not learning. we know this. they are senior citizens that are living on a fixed income.

they are too modest an embarrassed to ask for help. we have seen the numbers doubled since the last recession, 150 million people? that is a crisis. we have a crisis in front of us. the interesting thing is it is up until now it has been hit in. i read that over 62% of americans really believe there is a divide around it. they are concerned about it. there is the intersection about hunger and poverty and education. it is the ability to get out of the bottom of the wrong. they are worried about it. how do people react and work as far as those that are hungry? l