in 90 minutes, congressman steve southerland, republican of florida, talks about the republican primary in his state next tuesday. at 7:00 p.m., a discussion on an article titled the myth of american productivity. we will hear from michael mandel. >> when freddie mac was getting america in a position where we would have had a massive housing collapse, you could have spoken out aggressively. instead you were being paid by them. >> the company was being paid. my share was about $35,000 per year. i offered strategic advice largely based on my knowledge of history. host: mitt romney and newt

gingrich turn on the heat. that's on the front page of newspapers this morning. many back and forth moments last night between the two top gop candidates. and there is another debate later this week. after 18 debates, we want to hear from all of you this morning. helping or hurting the candidates? we are dividing the lines. romney is on top in the polls. gingrich is on his heels. if you are his supporter, there's a separate line for you. ron paul supporters, dial 0205. and for rick santorum, 0184. good morning on this tuesday, january 24. president obama will deliver his state of union speech tonight it's not a clock p.m. eastern.

our coverage on c-span kicks off at 8:00 p.m. eastern. we will be taking your phone calls after that speech. after the gop response from indiana governor mitch daniels, then we will get to your phone calls tonight. let's get to last night's gop debate. the miami herald says romney turns negative on surging gingrich. the debate last night was in tampa. there's another on thursday nights also in florida. we will get your take on this 18th debate on whether it is helping or hurting and what it's doing to the candidates, and what about your support for the candidates? has it changed while watching the debates? john is a staff writer. what's your take away? >> i am not sure there was a clear winner from last night's debate. mitt romney was a very different performers than in past debates.

he was on the offensive much of the time. but there was a tone last night that i thought was glass and gauging for all -- less engaging for all the candidates. it is hard to see where newt gingrich really did a lot to put points on the board. he was really defensive a lot of the time and was also playing the role of the front runner for perhaps the first time in a while, trying not to make mistakes. that is something that showed up in his performance a lot. and the focus was so much on gingrich and romney and that the other two candidates were really in the background a little. host: the tone was less engaging. what about the room in that debate hall, the audience not

participating? guest: they were really quiet compared to the crowd in south carolina. that affected newt gingrich a little. he was not labeled to use them as a kind of prop as in some recent debates. -- he was not able to use them. host: do you see campaign strategy from newt gingrich and romney? guest: romney is going on the offensive and there's a certain amount of risk in that. a big part of his appeal had always been his confidence and smoothness. both of those characteristics a re sacrifice to some degree when you go on the offensive to the degree that he has, particularly in the debate setting, where a very skilled newt gingrich is able to fight back to some

degree. romney runs the risk of making mistakes. try to correct him on several issues especially gingrich's work for freddie mac. host: when it comes to the florida primary, we read yesterday in the newspapers a it is sort of like pea soupmini primary -- a sort of like a mini primary everyday. ly newsit is an hour cycle some days. there was so much going on with candidates resigning and debates going on, last week, and all kinds of charges if back and forth and disclosures being made. that will all be very important in florida, which has a long

history and, somewhat checkered history of early voting. so, that will certainly be a factor here. that could play to romney's advantage because he hasn't been kind of the presumptive front- runner for a long time -- has been kind of the presumptive front-runner. host: you mentioned romney on the offense. he has been on the defense on the issue of his tax records. they will be released today. when? 8:34: there's a call at reporters. i'm not sure when the returns are. being are the journal got to really look at that last night. -- i'm not sure when the returns are being posted. they were available to us and a few other outlets for a while. then they went down again where there were not available.

host: you were able to look at them ? >> guest: oabout three hours or four hours. it was about 500 pages and that includes a couple of informational returns from the blind trust that the romneys have and a couple other trusts they have. host: they rolled them out at about 8:30 eastern this morning for 2010 and 2011. for those few hours you were allowed to look at them, what is your take away? guest: it is that there are still going to be a lot of questions. basically, they show what the governor romney has said they would show. his effective tax rate was around 15% for both of those years. he made roughly $20 million, he

and his wife, in income in each year and paid roughly $3 million in taxes each year. and so, i'd think a lot of questions will continue to linger about the uses of sophisticated -- if completely legal and appropriate -- ? devices. they certainly had income from entities that existed in tax havens such as the cayman islands and they have -- they had a swiss bank accounts that they disclosed in their 2010 return that the account has been closed. trusty was quick to point out to folks last night that it had been his idea and he

had taken the initiative to open it and he had closed it and the romneys were not involved in it. he said it was useful for diversification purposes. that is unassailable, but it is still a swiss bank account. that phrase might be around for a while in this debate. it would not surprise me. host: real quickly, did you get an explanation from his camp as to what reporters were only allowed a few hours to look to the records before they took them back down? guest: we had so much to do that i did not really ask them for a clear explanation of that. the returns were going to go down after midnight. after midnight was not a huge concern for us to put a

newspaper out. host: john, thanks for your time, sir. we will get into those tax records a little more. the newspapers have some detail this morning. when the records come out, that is. go to our web site c-span.org to find a link there. back to last night's debate, after the 18th debate, is it helping or hurting? as john said in that interview, the audience not participating. here's the drudge report this morning, no standing ovation. daniel, s.i., new york. caller: 01 to comment on the debates. i think it's a point to help the republicans in the general election. the usual amount of debates that are going on in the primary right now, it will put pressure on the president to have more debates than the usual amount in

the presidential election. i feel this -- people like these debates. i think the news networks will push this and i think there will be more than three this year. i hope newt gingrich will be the nominee. that will help him mentally. in debates, that is the only way that he will win. in my opinion. host: how did he do last night? caller: great. he came off very calm and presidential. he's the front-runner. he reminds me of how romney was in previous debates. romney was on the attack. he looked aggravated. newt looked great. host: you said that the debates are the only way gingrich is going to win. what are his own abilities? vulnerabilit his

ies? >> his past. he will be outspent by barack obama if he is the nominee. he will be outspent by the democratic party with pacs and unions, but the way he's going to beat obama is the debates. the more debates, the better chance he will have. host: let's get your response to the wall street journal. it says the gop deserves to lose.

caller: no, there is a lot of democratic spin. host: he is a conservative, stev -- stephens. caller: gingrich has been in politics for years. you make a lot of friends and enemies during that time. newt is the only one that can actually beat obama. mitt romney is too calm. he's a great guy with a great record. this republican field is a great field. it has been knocked so many times, but all the experience on that stage is better than in 2008. it's a great field. i really feel that newt gingrich

is the only one that can beat obama. host: before i go to william, a ron paul supporter in d.c., let me throw this into the mix. a guy we don't trust, george writes about newt gingrich, -- william is a ron paul supporter. how did he do in last night's debate and do you think the debates are helping or hurting him? caller: i always think he could do better. he's not the greatest public speaker. gingrich lobbied for the prescription drug bill, which probably cost the same amount as

president obama's health care bill, about $1 trillion over 10 12 years. if gingrich wins, it would be a big government conservatism. the size of government will double and the national debt will double. ] just because they want to start a war with iran and that english should be the official language and all this redneck conservatism, that does not get the government smaller. they are talking about another bay of pigs invasion last night. the only applause line i remember was when ron paul said that we should trade with cuba and not be isolationist. host: mark is a mitt romney supporter in melbourne, florida.

caller: good morning. i think that gingrich is not electable. he has too much baggage. the debate before the in south carolina where he went off on the reporter who asked about his ex-wife when he asked about open marriage, that is a matter of public marriage. if newt gingrich cannot handle that, how is he going to be president of the united states? obama's people love to run against gingrich because they would win easily. host: what about mitt romney? caller: i don't think he's going to win either. host: why will he not been in the end? caller: mitt is a lot more moderate than he is acting. he has to play to the conservative base of the republican party to get the nomination. if you look at his record in

massachusetts, it is fairly moderate. but as far as president obama, i just think that he probably going to win. it is hard to beat an incumbent. host: let's get back to the column in the wall street journal. usual rap on mr. ron is that he is robotic. but the real reason he cannot gain traction with voters is they suspect he is concealing some private doubt. al gore and george bush and senior or like that as well. what's your reaction? don't think themitti

is hollow although he does come off that is trying to sell your car. host: we want to show you a little of last night's debate. blogger exchange between the top two candidates. the moderator brian williams let them go back and forth nearly five minutes last night. we want to show you a couple minutes. >> we are talking about freddie mac. that ended in really bad for lot of people. you were working there making over $1 million for your entities, controlled and owned by you. i don't know if they were 100% owned by you. over 1.6 million guinness said it was. 300,000 >> what was the gross revenue of bain capital during the years you were working and with them? >> we did not do any work with

the government. i did not have an office on k streets. i was not a lobbyist and network in washington. congressmen have said that you came and lobbied them. that's with regard to medicare part d. at the same time you were taking in contributions, senator. >> no. let me be very clear. because i understand your technique which you used on john mccain and mike huckabee and have used consistently. it is unfortunate scant is not going to work well because the american people see through it. i have always publicly favored a stronger medicare program. i am proud of the fact that are publicly, openly advocated medicare part d. it has saved lives and also includes health savings accounts and medicare alternatives which gave people telesis.

i did it publicly. you have been walking around this state setting things that are not true. it is not correct to describe public citizenship having public advocacy as lobbying. every citizen has the right to do that. if what i did on medicare i did out in the open publicly. that's my right as a citizen. >> here's the problem, if you are getting paid by health care companies, if your entities are getting paid by health care companies that could benefit from a piece of legislation and then you meet with republican congressman and encouraged them to support that legislation, you can call it what you like, but i call it influence peddling. host: a moment from last night's 18th gop debate. helping or hurting? we want to hear from you. we are dividing the lines among gop supporters. here is a tweet from don --

, is a supporter of newt gingrich in berkeley springs, west virginia. ca-- carl. caller: i support newt gingrich, but i'm sure the media will tear him down so badly that he will not be viable in the main election. the thing that bothers me is when john carey ran for president no one interviewed his first wife. and john edwards, "time" magazine knew that he was messing around on his wife, but they were sitting on the story, they claimed they were trying to get more information. and some tabloid broke the story and they had to go along with it. i see the media as a problem for the republicans any way you go at it.

another thing, you guys had two democrats call in so far this morning. i know you can tell the difference. i can. people can. you play along with them. that goes to the character of these people that call in on the long line and try to pretend to tear somebody down. host: can i ask about the attacks last night from mitt romney on your candidate newt gingrich? caller: well, you know, they all have baggage. what politician does not? host: you can look beyond that? newt gingrich's baggage? caller: what do you do? even the democrats. look at obama. he snorted cocaine and nobody

made a big deal out of that. and he hung out with the preacher that said america was no damn good. what do you do? host: the latest poll shows mitt romney with a very slight lead. 29%. gingrich on his heels with 28%. ron paul with 13%. santorum at the bottom with 11%. " saying,usa today: romney and gingrich are turning on the heat. gingrich leading romney 38-33. about the money, romney pose a campaign and the super pac supporting him have spent an estimated $9 million air ads in

florida permit a casino billionaire is pumping an additional $5 million into the coffers of the super pac supporting gingrich. so, that is the latest on the polls in this race and how it is shaping up. rasmussen also has their poll. i will show you that as we go to the next phone call. this is in the new york post this morning showing, likely for the voters polled sunday night. let's go to marie, a mitt romney supporter in seattle, washington. caller: i'm calling from the state of washington, therefore, i am in a minority stake being republican in the first place. the way i look at this race is i want somebody as president i can respect, who has not had a lifelong career in washington, d.c. i think that for our nation might now we need somebody who

knows how it is to earn a dollar. i don't ever begrudge anybody for being quasi. wealthy. being i think that mr. romney is the best choice. it does not matter which network i watch, nobody likes mr. romney. it is kind of a shame, because, frankly, i think he is exactly what this country needs. we are in a sad state of affairs. we need somebody who knows how to turn things around, who knows the value of the dollar. just because you are rich does not mean you don't know the value of the dollar. i would have a hard time supporting mr. gingrich. host: do you think your candidate mitt romney can beat barack obama in a general election? caller: absolutely. i think once people understand

this man -- i hear people say that they don't think mr. armani has any utility, but i differ. the general public seems to have a problem " with the fact that he's a wealthy man. that is the american dream. i don't begrudge this man because he has made money. his making money has produced tens of thousands of jobs. host: i've got your point. "usa today" has a report card in their newspaper this morning, what president obama said at his last state of the union and what actually happened, if you are interested in reading that. the article goes on to say --

today in the house there is an faa funding bill. and then, speaking of airlines, tsa security, rand paul was detained by the tsa yesterday. he quickly wrote a piece in a commentary section of the washington times this morning, tsa intrusions' undermine security. it says, despite moving my

belts, wallets, glasses, and my shoes, the tsa also wanted my dignity. i refused.

if you're interested in reading the whole piece, that's in the washington times this morning. back to the state of the union, many of you know that gabrielle giffords will be sitting at the state of the union today or rather tonight for the speech and that she will be sitting between a democrat and republican. it says in the hill newspaper -- and then more on the speech from "politico" -- that the front page. campus newspapers on capitol hill ahead of tonight's state of the union address. also, you may have heard the news from chicago to yesterday that senator mark kirk suffered a stroke. this is the front page of the

chicago tribune. he faces a tough road to recovery. he is expected to recover neurologically, but physically he will have a tough road ahead in rehab. that is the latest on congress in the papers this morning. ron paul supporter, joseph, in miami, florida. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you, c-span. host: 18 debates, helping or hurting? caller: it is rehashing, laboring. they looked like kids with having a spat, and gingrich and romney. i want to bring something to the viewer's attention. unfortunately, i have been reduced to supporting ron paul, not to take anything away from him, but i believe in what he stands for. but mr. gingrich supports and endorses a book on creating a new civilization that was written in the 1990's, which is

basically in cahoots with what toy called the illumine audati, bring down our constitution. also, and gingrich in 1994 supported the taxpayer giving away of $40 billion to the bankers responsible for the collapse of the mexican peso and many other things. if gingrich gets involved and becomes the nominee and if he beat barack obama, we are in big trouble. thanks for taking my call. ost: let's go on to david, a santorum supporter in delaware. caller: good morning. i was listening to everybody -- what everybody has to say. all i am thinking is it is all the nitpicking that goes on, number one, it is really unnecessary. the focus should be on who is the best person for the job.

as far as the debate, number one, they bring in too much drama. they put gingrich against romney and a little sprinkling of ron paul and they don't talk to santorum hardly at all. he may be got half a dozen questions advest during a two- hour debate. he speaks very plainly. he tells what dissolutions would be. the last person we had on states that did that, herman cain, they vilified him and chased him out of the race. i wonder how long it will be before they do this to santorum. it is not rocket science. host: when he is given a chance, do you think the debates helped rick santorum? caller: they really do. you are talking about one of the winners of the primary or one of

those straw polls in iowa. but he is one of the winners. so why are they not giving him as much time as romney and gingrich? host: we will show you a little of what central had to say in a moment. first i want to show you if mitt romney went after the former speaker about his tenure in that post. at the end, ron paul jumped in there as well. here's the exchange. >> the votes on the ethics committee was in january of 1997. i asked the republicans to vote yes because we had to get it behind us. the democrats had filed 84 ethics charges for a simple reason. we had taken control of the house after 40 years and they were very bitter. the fact is on every single ethics charge of substance there was -- that was dismissed in the end, the only thing we did wrong was on lawyer had been one letter that was in error.

i pay the cost of going through the process and determine it was wrong. i left two years later. >> i had been out of congress peers and when i arrived again it was chaotic and it was a mess for 12 years. newt gingrich had a big job on his hands, but he really had to attack the conservatives and did it boldly. i think the reason -- he did not run for speaker two years later, he did not have the votes. that's what the problem was. this idea that he voluntarily grenade and was going to punish himself because we did not do well in the elections, that's not the way it was. host: the washington post this morning on the issue of the ethics investigation --

also, there's a piece about gingrich's contract with freddie mac, the housing government enterprise. if you are interested in looking through that contract, we will that it posted on our website, c-span.org. that was released yesterday. bill is a supporter for the former speaker in texas. once you think about these debates? caller: perhaps our problem might be that we never have had anyone at least in my lifetime as brilliant as newt gingrich in the white house. we talk about baggage.

i think about jennifer flowers, paula jones, juanita broderick, and the bluegrass. is that baggage? i don't think we have ever had anybody that carried more baggage than bill clinton. -- and the blue dress. host: dana is a mitt romney supporter in plymouth, massachusetts. go ahead. caller: i am in waymouth, massachusetts. as far as romney showing his tax papers, we should remember the head of the irs does not even do his own taxes because they are too confusing. it is unfortunate that these debates take a lot of -- they sway opinions so much.

people should really read the romney and a book by ron paul and newt gingrich's book. if people don't tune in to this, it's unfortunate. i would not vote for newt gingrich. he will suppress wages even more. my wages have been suppressed over the years. host: we lost you there. on the issue of mitt romney's tax records, we will delve into them a little bit more deeply tomorrow on the show. tune in at 7:00 a.m. eastern. this is the washington post breakdown of the details of the 1040's. it looks at the income tax details of the obamas, the gingriches.

the effective tax rate for the obamas, 26%. the gingrich family, 32%. the romney family, 14%. many of the papers have a glimpse of what will be released this morning by the romney campaign. the tax records from 2010 and 2011. there should be a lot more to talk about today and we will talk about it tomorrow if at 7:00 a.m. eastern. we will keep taking your phone calls for about 10 more minutes about the 18th gop debate, helping or hurting? we have a ron paul supporter in maryland. caller: good morning. the one thing i want to mention is in our constitution it says united we stand, divided we fall. if this government continues on its path, as divided as it is,

it is certain that we are going to fall. second, i hear anybody talking about jobs, jobs, jobs. but on the other hand account of handing out visas that americans are fully qualified to work in these positions. i don't understand why the government is handing out all of these three jobs to non-citizens of the united states. third, i want to mention about the oil prices. no one has even mentioned anything about fuel prices and the cost and why the cost is going up and what is going on with the iranians that are blocking -- or the saudi arabia's -- the seas. what are we going to do about

the fuel prices? we are overpaying for fuel as it is. americans are being pushed into a corner at this time and are being overtax. maryland is probably one of the highest tax states in the union. i don't see where this country is headed. i think americans are starting to get scared about it. host: lots of comments on our facebook page about this question. here's a couple of them. so those are some of our comments. a tweet. can sandusky end us

a previous caller spoke about rick santorum. here's a little bit that came at the end of the debates when the former pennsylvania senator talk about his conservative credentials. >> there's a gap and a problem with up here with me. one is on the biggest issues we have to deal with in this election. crushing the economy and crushing freedom is obamacare. romney's plan was the basis for obamacare. gingrich for 20 years supported a federal individual mandate something that is now said to be unconstitutional. gingrich supported the individual mandate that is at the core of obamacare. if you look at cap-and-trade, romney was proud to say he was the first state to assign a capcorn co2 emissions. the first state in the country

to put a cap on that. gingrich was for the cap-and- trade program with incentives, business incentives, but he was for the rubric of cap-and-trade, not specifically the cap-and- trade bill that was out there. huge differences. host: rick santorum, last night's debate. here's an e-mail from stan lee jackson about the audience and the moderator's insistence that they remain silent. lynn supports the former speaker from georgia, in wilmington, delaware. caller: good morning.

host: what do you think's? of the debates helping or hurting? caller: i think they are helping because it gives people more a perspective of where the candidates are coming from. it is more open-minded. i think that it is helping because it has given the candidates so more people are able to see where the candidates are coming from and seeing the honesty in each one on the podium. i think i'm going with gingrich because that man has shown so much, like the way he stands up for himself in a matter how they attack campbhim. gingrich called president obama the food stamp president. i admired the way he addressed

that. thanks for taking my comment. have a good day. host: this is the front page of the new york times does want. -- this morning. the supreme court has ruled that the police violated the constitution when they placed a gps device on the car of a suspect -- a couple other things i want to mention. the payroll tax-cut extension. the house and senate members are meeting today. we will have coverage of that on c-span3 at 2: 30 p.m. and on c- span radio if you are interested. also, today is the new head of the consumer financial bureau, richard cordray. he will be testifying today as

well. as santorum supporter in seattle, go ahead, kara. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am and santorum supporter. thank you for taking my call. i think the debate is helping, but i just wanted to express my opinion. when romney and gingrich were attacking each other, romney attacked newt gingrich, but he is the same as newt gingrich. romney bringing a lot of immigrants from different places and the mormon church supported them. as soon as they get here they tell the people you are on your

are on your own. the health care in massachusetts was paid by the federal government and nobody is bringing that up. host: one more call i have to get. george in michigan, republican. caller: ron paul seems to be the only educated man in the field. he the doctor and speaks as if he knows what he's talking about. you showed a clip from the debate last night where romney and gingrich were going at each other and then romney attacked gingrich for lobbying in florida and gingrich called himself a public citizen.

these guys all of their titles. you guys consistently call people the former speaker of the house. i think romney would been a great president because he is a businessman and it does not seem like we have had a businessman as a president, but he would also be very frustrated because he would not able to get anything done, because there would be so much we and they in politics and that's the way it always is. i would love to see everything being a 50-50 split. 50 republican senators and 50 democratic senators. and then you have to work together to get a solution. it's not them and us. it drives me crazy. both sides always blaming each other. it is frustrating for educated, reasonable people to watch politics. host: that brings us to our next

part of today's show. we are talking to two house members of congress. a republican and democrat. bad miller is a democrat from north carolina. miller.ad first a look at two new ads in the republican race in florida. >> only newt gingrich can beat obama. more people have been put on food stamps by barack obama than any president in american history. >> i believe every american of every background has been endowed by their creator with the right to pursue happiness. if that makes liberals on happy, then i will continue to find ways to help poor people and how to get a job and get a better job. >i am newt gingrich and i approve this message. >> while for the families lost everything in the housing crisis, newt gingrich was paid over $1.6 million by the

scandal-ridden agency that helped create a crisis. >> i offer advice. as a historian. >> sanctioned for ethics violations, he resigned from congress in disgrace and then cashed in on as a d.c. insider. fifth gingrich wins, this guy would be very happy? -- if gingrich wins. >> i am mitt romney and i approve this message. host: our guest served on the financial-services committee. the front page says "obama expected to focus on jobs tonight in the state of the union." guest: i economy should be the focus. i have heard in the last couple weeks there will be more on that. president obama announced a few weeks ago in kansas, which was where theodore roosevelt gave his new nationalism speech,

which had a strong team of economic justice, really a more fair economy and one that cannot allow looting by powerful economic interests. i have heard and hope it is true that he will talk a great deal about housing. housing remains the biggest burden on the economy. if we still have 11 million homeowners under water. 10 million will lose their homes to foreclosure and will be escorted from their house by a sheriff's deputy. those families are not going to spend as they have before because they know their net worth has gone down dramatically. so we have got to put a floor on the housing market and get control of the continuing foreclosures. host: president obama give the

speech tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern time. our coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. " you get there really to get a seat? guest: i don't feel the need to be on the centreville so i can be on national television shaking hands with the president. host: what you want to hear from the president on deficit- reduction? guest: i think it was wildly irresponsible to be running the deficits that we were running five years ago. those don't seem to be that high now, but that was when we should have been running at least even and preferably even a surplus. the bible advises the time to make provisions for the lean years is in the fat years. we have a very sick economy. it is better than it was, but it still has big problems. people need to be able to buy consumer goods so that they can

create more jobs. the total debt is now about equal to the economy, the size of the economy, the gdp. that has in many places in the point at which it starts to be a problem. host: the unemployment rate nationally, 8.5% in december. in north carolina in november, 10%. guest: north carolina has been suffering a long time. we have lost as many manufacturing jobs aspect any or state with the exception of maybe michigan. hard hit by trade or otherwise having problems. the typical pillars of north carolina economy has been textiles, tobacco, and furniture. all three have been hard hit. we have a couple decades of really hard times in north carolina. host: let me ask you to give the president a grade on how he has done so far. guest: he inherited a very difficult set of economic

circumstances. we did not have a president who knows what happens if europe collapses. there is room for improvement in some of the economic issues, specifically, how he has dealt with the banking industry, his unwillingness to go toe to toe with them, not really his, but his administration, the treasury has been too kind to the banks. as a result, it has been very difficult to do anything to help homeowners who are struggling. the most important thing to do to get the economy going again is to help household staff produce their debt. they are not consuming, they are not buying, they are not creating demand because they are burdened with debt. a lot of this is mortgage debt. 11 million families are under

water. the total amount of negative equity in homes is $700 billion. if we could get control of that and begin to help households out from under, they would begin to act normally, they would buy homes. we are in the fourth year of housing starts being a third of what they should be. we have lost millions of construction jobs as a result. and we have not had the usual cycle coming out of recession. a cycle in which people don't buy houses for a few months and then there is in addition to the normal demand there is the pick up demand of the people who postponed those decisions. that is also when people buy appliances and furniture. if that has been a major downward pressure on the economy. host: so he needs to improve in certain areas? what about a grade? guest: i don't think i would give a grade, but that is the

area that needs the greatest improvement. i think president obama does understand that and i hope that he will address that tonight. host: there have been headlines about his budget is expected in support. there it was one in the old newspaper on the front page last week that says -- guest: that me see before i tell you whether i like it or not. i think we do need to be looking longer-term at getting control of the deficit. the way to do it now is not to take money out of working and middle-class families pockets. that would further reduce demand. the reason employers are not hiring is they are not convinced anyone will buy what they make. so they are not buying equipment, they are not bringing back orders they've laid off, they're not hiring new workers, they are not increasing their production, because there's not

the demand for it. if if we cut back on programs that help working and middle- class families, we will further reduce demand. however, it was a big mistake a year ago to agree to extend all the bush tax cuts. the ones for the richest americans don't really add to demand. they are not going to spend -- if their taxes are cut, they are not going to spend at all the way a struggling family will. there's not a problem with enough capital to expand operations. american corporations are sitting on $2 trillion in cash. they could easily expand their operations if they thought anybody would buy would they make. host: gloria is on the phone, a democrat in illinois. go ahead. caller: good morning. first i want to make a comment about newt gingrich and the food stamps. food stamps have not just started since the president got

in office. people have been on food stamps under president bush. i also want to comment on the gentleman that talked about reverend wright. the rev. went and fought for the country and came home and still have to sit on the back of the bus is the reason he felt the way he did about america. and, also, i wish people would go see the movie, "of the tuskegee airmen." that will tell you why black men feel like they do about this country. thank you very much. host: all right, let me talk about poverty and how it is being viewed. guest: the reason food stamps are at a higher level is medicaid is at a higher level, all the programs that help people in difficult economic in difficult circumstances are all increasing because the economy is the way it is. when this happens to the economy, when there is a recession, two bad things

happened to the budget. one of them is tax collections are reduced because people are not employed, so they're not paying income taxes, businesses are not making as much money at the and. and at the state and local level, taxes are reduced. the children's health insurance program, medicaid, and other are under greater pressure. what was offensive about gingrich's remarks is that people would rather be on food stamps than to be employed. i visited places in my district and i represent many areas where we have lost manufacturing jobs. those folks want jobs. that is what they want. they need unemployment insurance for now. they may need other kinds of

assistance. but what they want is jobs. i like to see speaker gingrich or anyone else go tell them to their face if that's the reason they don't have jobs is they just are not looking tanned and would rather have food stamps. host: let's hear from miranda next, a republican in south dakota. caller: thanks for taking my call. i've heard it said that certain republicans were going to pass the budget by this time. i was wondering if the democrats are putting any pressure on them. host: she was wondering -- could you repeat that? caller: hundred the democrats and put any pressure on the president to pass the budget and if there's an explanation for them not doing that other than blaming republicans? guest: the budget is a blueprint and it's not that uncommon for congress not to pass a budget

when the house and senate don't agree with it. the budget guides appropriations bills when congress really does make decisions about spending. those have been enormous battles. we approached a government shutdown last year. then, a huge problem with extending the debt limit, which everyone knows had to happen, given the budget decisions that had been made long before. it is not unusual for the house to pass a budget that is ideologically driven in the senate with a different point of view, adopting a different budget, and the two houses not agreeing. that has happened many times. host: and virginia. an independent. caller: i am wondering why we do

not do what much of japan did with 100-year mortgages. if we had 100-year mortgages, so many people would not be losing their homes, and the time spent our writing to all time when people can find their place would have been for naught. guest: i do not know that 100- year mortgages are the solution. the biggest single pressure on the economy right now is housing, and trying to get people into mortgages they can afford to pay. reducing mortgages -- sure. house prices have gone down 26%. there is $700 billion in negative equity.

all 11 million families all more than the house is worth. the total no loss of the net worth of households is $7 trillion. it is a big problem. we need to reduce the total amount people 0. foreclosure is hideously expensive. it makes no sense to foreclose if people can pay a mortgage if we reduce the amount they all. i do not know the particular solution is a 100-year mortgage, but to get people in mortgages they can play -- can pay seems to be the most important thing to do right now to get control of the housing crisis, the foreclosure crisis, which will put a bottom under the economy. host: what does the president say on housing? the president has put forward different programs try to refinance mortgages and things

like that -- not good enough? guest: it has not worked so far. we've not had a reduction in the total amount of people. economic analysis shows that if you want to give people a real incentive to find a way to pay their mortgage, they have to have something to protect. if they owe 140% of the equity in their home, they are not adding to life savings. they are paying expensive rent, and become hopeless that they will never get out of debt. if we can reduce that, it will be better for the lenders, too. they will not turn loose of the idea that they will get paid in full -- fall, and the cost of foreclosures are hideous.

host: in that scenario, would there be a loss to taxpayers? guest: know. it would be the lenders agreed to reduce the amount owed. the host: to lose money? guest: well, some of this has been driven by accounting concerns. the fact is they're not going to get paid. there is only so much to do to sugarcoat the fact that the lenders are not going to get paid in full. foreclosures are much more expensive. they come out with a 60% loss. then you have a house. what are you going to do with the house? they are now in real estate. it continues to push down housing prices. well more than half of the homes on the market are foreclosures and they are priced to sell

care if there are vacant foreclosed homes stigmatizing neighborhoods. when people see home values declining, is coming straight out of life savings. host: is there anything congress can do? guest: hi proposed allowing -- i propose allowing bankruptcy judges to modify mortgages in other -- in ways they modify secured debt. it would be a predictable, logical way to reduce it, that would get people in a mortgage they would have every incentive to try to keep up. i have also proposed that congress use tarp money. that put a bottom under the housing market that great

depression did not start with housing, the way our current economic problems started, but when the economy is that bad, it will effect housing. that program turned a slight profit by buying mortgages, and then going to the homeowner and agreeing to a lesser amount they would be able to pay. host: ellen is a republican in louisville, ky. thank you for waiting. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i was wondering if mr. diller -- mr. miller pep -- clarify for me, and many bills passed out of the house concerning jobs and gone on to the senate? guest: despite speaker john boehner sang their about jobs, there has not been any bills

focus on that. the debate over the payroll tax is about putting money in the pockets of working and middle- class families. i hate to play with the tax with the way we play with social security, but if we make up for every dollar we cut from general revenue as a short-term measure it puts a fair amount of money in people's pockets. it is a regressive tax. cutting it is a progressive tax cut. that helps to increase consumer demand. if we have not cut the payroll tax one year ago, the economy would probably be in worse shape now than it was. if we do not extend it, it will be a downward push for the economy. host: the debate to extend the payroll tax, kicks off with a meeting today led by dave camp, a republican of michigan, and senator max baucus, a democrat

of michigan. are you a yes to extend this? guest: i am. host: portland, oregon. delores, democratic caller. caller: i have a brief -- a few brief concerns. i would like to know why president obama was willing to reinstate the tax break that seems to benefit wealthy people. my other concern is everyone is concerned that the middle class's falling, and we need the middle class, and i understand that. i do have sympathy. what i understand is that as a person of color, the middle class has always kept me down. it is time we agreed, but

wouldn't another approach be to lift poor people on up? lift the people up there have never had a chance. lift the people that it does always been that way for them. guest: i think it was a mistake to extend all of the bush tax cuts in december, 2010. i voted against that. president obama supported it. there was a lot that i wanted to support, but i could not see extending the tax cuts. president obama has said he will never again signed an extension of all the tax cuts if it includes a tax cut for very rich americans. i think tonight he will call for increasing taxes on the richest americans as a way to pay for programs helping the working and middle-class factories, and even up some of the income inequality

we have seen growth so dramatically in the last 30 years. we went from half of a century when the middle class was doing better and better, the economy prospered, prosperity was shared, to a middle-class worthy -- where they have not been able to stay even. the increased productivity in the economy is going to a handful of people and helping the poorest people, i think you are right. helping the poorest people is helping the middle class, helping the people struggling to get into the middle class. if you bring up middle-class wages, but you include the poor. the phrase i use is working and middle-class families. i think most of the four are working. a lot of jobs do not get you out of poverty. those are the folks that are most likely to lose their jobs.

and after americans have suffered -- african-americans have suffered much more in this downturn. they are much more likely to have been targeted by predatory mortgages, to have lost their jobs, to have been dispossessed from their homes because of foreclosure. when you lose your home to foreclosure, you lose your spot in the middle class, and it is hard to climb back in. host: colorado springs. rita, an independent. caller: congratulations, senator -- representative miller. let's get rid of the tax cuts for the wealthiest of the wealthy. i do not know if you are aware, but the u.k. is about to help us. host: why you say that? caller: pending is a proposal to

close the cayman islands as a tax shelter. host: ok. caller: let's cross our fingers that it works. guest: i am sure mitt romney is greeting at the idea of the cayman islands being closed as a tax shelter. host: john a republican in cape cod, massachusetts. caller: i am a republican. i am a moderate. that is what i signed up to be in the military in the 1980's under reagan. there is no way i could be a democrat. i do not want to be an independent. i feel though moderate republicans are the best bunch to be in. first of all, when there is an election, and it is 46-to-49, i

hate it when politicians say the american people have spoken. hi and a landscaper. i worked in a resort. i worked for bank of america, for merrill lynch. i did not need a payroll tax cut because i did not hire anyone. i work for myself. all of this stuff works for me. i just heard you talking about passing a budget. if we are in as tough of a budget -- spot as we are, you would think a budget is a good i think -- good idea to test. when people really want out to get a job, believe me, they could go out and get the job. i know for a fact there is a pile of people making $80,000,

$90,000 a year, and they are grabbing the benefits because they cannot get a job that is comparable to what they want. there are people out there working two, three, four jobs. host: i will have the congressman respond. guest: i have heard that before, that the people do not -- who do not have jobs are not looking hard and off, but, again, you ought to tell them -- ought to tell that to them. i can see their faces. they are struggling. i spoke to a woman who was making $45,000, which was enough for her to support herself and a daughter. the jobs that she could get paid $17,000, $18,000. that is a dramatic change. she was on unemployment, and looking as hard as she could to find a job that would not so dramatically change her life.

if you are self-employed, you are paying the payroll tax if you are doing your taxes right. if you're not paying the payroll tax, you need to talk to your accountant, or if you do your own taxes, you need to look to your forms again. host: from our twitter page -- guest: savings in households or by the government? because i think it is saving by the government instead of the debt-fueled spending by the government. guest: a lot policy has been directed at urging the middle class to spend, even if they had to borrow to do it. the superficial prosperity of the middle part of the last decade was fueled by middle- class families borrowing.

the savings rate went to below zero. we should have policy is not just to balance the federal budget, which is something we need to do in the longer term, police, but more immediately, more importantly is helping middle-class families do that. its stock baltimore, maryland. -- host: baltimore, maryland. good morning, kenny. caller: our congressmen and our president, when it is election time, they try to get people to vote for them, but when it's time to pass a bill, they give their money to the -- would it not be easier to give money to people than the banks who take their money to other countries and spread money around?

if he would have given each american $1 million, it would have been -- would not have been more than $800 billion they gave away. guest: there is a great sense of injustice. i think we all feel it. the people who caused the economic collapse, the great recession, this hard economic times that we're going through, have come out without having lost anything. they are doing fine, and the people that have suffered the most, the people that have lost their jobs, their homes, the spot in the middle class, were entirely blameless, and that sense of injustice is a real problem for our nation. we have to have americans believe that society is fundamentally fair, and there is accountability for bad behavior. they have not seen that in the

last few years. so anothertwwet -- host: another tweet -- what you do for homeowners with their home values have fallen but they're not under water? guest: most proposals have been for those under water. i think he will be helped if we stop the decline in home values, which is hurting every american, the economy, all homeowners, which is now 65%, down from 69% of households because the most important part of their life savings is the equity in their home. the $7 trillion loss of equity in the last three years, for most households that is a decline in their net worth of 2 /3 of one year's income.

the problems in the economy are not just about losses of jobs. it is about the overall sense for the middle class that they do not have anything. they're worried about their future. host: housingwire.com says there are rumors the president could announce a settlement between the state's attorney general's and banks in how they wrote up mortgages. tell us about this case and why it matters. guest: there are a lot of questions about what is really being settled. it began with an investigation in the robo-signing, which is a serious allegation. that appears to be perjury, citing a court document that you now not to be true. that was pervasive. there were millions of cases of that. it has hurt the housing market.

there were people just making things up or did not want to spend the money to make sure they had things right. there were people foreclosed upon the did not have a mortgage. that is how messed up and haphazard it was. if there have been a lot of other claims out there. there are a lot of other things that banks have done that to give rise to penalties. it is not clear what is being compromised. the concern -- i spoke about the sense of injustice -- no one has been held accountable for the bad conduct that led to the foreclosure crisis and the economic collapse. the concern is too generous a deal for the banks, and the amount is a relatively small percentage of the overall lost -- loss of equity in homes and then $9 trillion in assets of the biggest banks -- is that settlement is too generous, for

gives too much, a multitude of sins that have not been investigated, that will increase the sense of injustice and the lack of accountability. the laws and the rules of this country apply to some people and not others. host: do you think the president will announce some sort of settlement? guest: if he mentions it it will be in a big sentence or two. this and what i've read, there is still not a deal -- based on what i have read this is not a deal. caller: i have been gainfully employed since 1982. i think our government is the problem, and this man, congressman miller, he is some of the problem. if you look at what he says -- he is above the fray, above the american people, about talking about letting us have more money and keep more money. this is just smoke and mirrors.

we need a citizens referendum. the only way we fix our country is for people to take it back, and for us to vote on issues they cannot seem to get voted on. let's be fair about our elections and with the people of this country guest: i could not hear all of that, -- country. guest: i could not hear all of that, but it sounded on friendly. middle class families are struggling. they can barely make ends meet. until they feel more prosperous, and they can buy more stuff, if employers are not going to hire people to produce more because nobody will buy. i think that is a fairly simple explanation. i think people understand that is what is happening in the economy. it is what they feel happening in their own lives, and what they see around them.

host: alabama. charles, a republican. caller: good morning. i'm 73 years old, and i have seen a lot of things come and go. we never get an honest answer. first of all, where the jobs go? it was a democratic congress, along with the help of republicans that drafted nafta, allow jobs to go overseas, to bring products back in with no tariffs. the mortgage problem -- how did it get to be a mess? the basic mortgage, years ago, your mortgage did not exceed one weak's take-home pay. no one had that problem. you could not put a consolidation against your home. you could get a second mortgage if you head equity. the problem is, we have 450

people or less in this country, no congressman or senators, who are the problem. every one of them should be thrown out. if they were in any business or corporation, they would have been thrown out a long time ago. i will wait for his answer. [laughter] guest: i did not here that great either, but that did not sound friendly. the trade deals, and a couple months ago we passed three more, i agree the those have increased the income inequality that has been a great thing for corporate executives and for particular industries -- the financial services industry and pharmaceutical industry -- they love to trade. it has been very bad for a lot of other industries, especially

for textiles and furniture. it has put american workers in competition with their low-wage workers. in a time of increasing economic inequality, the trade deals have acted as gasoline on the fire. also, allowing the use of moving financial services to other countries and bring in manufactured goods in, we are leaving american capital out of the united states, and then bring in manufactured goods back to the united states. on the mortgage crisis -- the problems in the last decade have been a very indulgent administration. the federal reserve board had authority since 1994 under the home equity protection act, hepa, to issue rules to crack

down on predatory, abusive lending practices. they let it go on. they did nothing until there was a financial collapse. the kinds of mortgages that got people in trouble were not required by the community investment act. they were not all for fannie and freddie. they were deciding to make a quick buck for the lenders and the big banks that bought from those lenders and those that sold them to investors. it was never a good thing for the home owners. it was never about encouraging home ownership. it was about stripping the equity in homes from people as they had to refinance because they have financial difficulties. host: would you describe yourself as a blue dog, a conservative -- conservative democrat? guest:, no, i've not been part

of them. host: are you happy with the house leadership on the democratic side? if guest: the problem is we are not in control. i guess we prefer democratic leadership to republican leadership. g -- host: what about the roles they are serving -- happy with it, would you like to see nancy pelosi, james clyburn, continued? guest: i voted for them all, and when we were in a majority, when it was not just a matter of making a case for opposing republicans were doing, i think they did a remarkable job of collecting votes necessary to pass legislation that had a lot of opposition from most powerful economic interests in america. host: your reelection. what were your district like? -- look like? guest: i am not sure. host: there is a piece over the

weekend saying that you and a colleague of yours attended a martin luther king jr. observance in an area neither congressman represents. now, the two political warhorses might be under -- host: is that true? guest: the triangle is bigger than two congressional districts. what they have done is combine my home, and the most democratic parts of raleigh, n.c., with the most democratic parts of where did that lives. i do not want to talk about that right now. host: and your friendship? guest: there's been a strain.

host: because of the politics? host: i do not want to elaborate on that. -- guest: i do not want to elaborate on that. caller: it seems to me that most people dead to not qualify for the middle class, how much money is the middle class supposed to make? i think the person between poverty and middle class would be the most people out there that need help. what is middle class, and what is the person under middle class? guest: well, i did not come with all of the statistics. i think the poverty rate -- it depends on how many people are in the households, but i think

need in household income is 40,000 -- median household income is $40,000. all of those folks are struggling. the best majority of americans are struggling, and they have not seen the benefit of their hard work to make the economy more productive. that is a sense of the injustice that is now shaping american politics. host: malcolm, an independent in phoenix, arizona. caller: yes, can you hear me? host: we can. guest: might earpieces not .orking, but i will try to caller: what is the financial committee's responsibility, did they not see any of this happening in financial institutions over the years, and, the recess appointment of

mr. richard cordray, is he working in the capacity of a prosecutor? will people go to jail? but guest: i did not think that is within the jurisdiction of the consumer financial protection bureau. they are to issue rules to protect consumers, and enforce those rules to protect consumers from the abuses we saw in the last decade. host: and you agree with that resources -- recess appointment? guest: i think he had to do it. there are more than 200 critical vacancies at the senate has not acted upon. it has been an effort to keep the president from being able to govern the country, and i do not think the confirmation powers of the senate, or the senate rules have ever been used or abused that way. that agency has to have a

director in place. host: before you answer the other two, i want to let viewers know that richard cordray will be testifying today before the subcommittee on tarp financial- services and bailouts. he will talk about his role as the new director of the financial protection bureau. go to c-span.org for more details. guest: the financial services committee had the jurisdiction -- it was within their area to look at what went wrong, but i can tell you i join that committee when i was first elected. the republicans were in the majority for the first four years. we never heard a word in that committee about credit default swaps. we really did not hear from anybody except from the industry themselves about what was going on in the financial sector. so, a great many folks were caught completely by surprise,

and i think there was an intentional effort that was very successful to control the information available to members of congress about what was going on. since then, i think a lot of members of the committee has developed other sources of information. we are not going to have to take the industry's word about what is going on. host: one last call, linda, a republican in florida. caller: i am upset that people that are unemployed are said to not be trying. i have been trying. i have never collected stones stance. host: -- food stamps. host: you commented on this, people saying that people that are unemployed do not want to have jobs. guest: i think that is not true. if you know people that are

struggling to find other jobs, and they're worried about their future, they would like nothing better to have a job. the idea they're just taking food stamps because they do not want to work is just offensive. host: -- this from twitter guest: he did not make it worse. i have been critical of that there are things he should have done, that the administration would have done, if we had been tougher on the banks. what have been helpful to home owners. the economy is doing better -- the economy was dropping like a stone in january, 2009. that is the reality. since president obama has taken office, in the first three or four months when the economy was dropping like a stone, we have

been adding jobs. even paul krugman, who has been pessimistic, suggested there was some glimmer of life in a column yesterday. president obama did inherit the worst economy since the great depression. host: brad miller, thank you for talking to our viewers. coming up, we will turn our attention to the gop presidential primary in florida with a republican from that state, steve southerland. first, a news update. >> it is 8:35 a.m. eastern. republican presidential candidate mitt romney's tax records show he is paying $6.2 million in taxes on a total of $42.5 million of income over the years 2010 and 2011. it follows the requests from canids to provide more detail

about mr. romney's wealth. it shows that he is among one of the top 1%. a white house senior adviser speaking hours after mitt romney put the campaign released a 2010 tax returns said president obama will outline a plan to make sure what the americans pay more in their -- his state of the union address. when asked about governor romney's text returns, he said it raises an important question also, in tonight's state of the union address, the president is supposed to offer ideas to help manufacturing and expanding hiring. those are some latest headlines and c-span radio. >> mr. speaker, the president of the united states. [applause]

>> tonight, president obama delivers his state of the union address. live coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern, including the president clinton's speech, the governor -- the republican's response. after the address, more reaction from house members and senators. throughout the night, go online for a live video and to ed your comments using facebook and twitter. for more resources in the presidential race, use the c- span campaign 2012 web site. see what the candidates have said on issues important to you, and read the latest from candidates, political reporters, and people like you from social media sites. >> "washington journal" continues. host: congressman steve

southerland -- all eyes are on florida. have you endorsed for next tuesday's primary? guest: i have not. host: will you? guest: as of right now, i'm taking all the information that all for the citizens are taking, and i cannot answer that question yet. i know i will not endorse today. we're watching the developments on the ground. obviously, we were very attentive to what was going on in south carolina, knowing that it was moving our way like it hurricane, and those of us in florida are familiar with those. so, we're not sure yet. host: are you and decided, or not sure about whether you are going to endorsed? guest: as an individual, my wife and i, and four daughters, we talk about this we talk about this, and certainly have several that appeal to us personally.

i had to do absentee voting because i'm here in d.c., and will not be in florida next tuesday. host: so you already voted? gee, i have voted. gee, i have voted. host:, so you have made up your mind, but will not tell us. guest: i've put in a secrecy, will. it is a secret -- envelope. it is a secret. host: is there a disagreement in your household? guest: there is unity where it matters most, and that as with my character is -- with my wife. [laughter] my two daughters have yet to send it in. host: there is a piece in the

paper this morning about whether endorsements' really count. do you think they matter? guest: i think they make us feel good. being a new member of congress, having never run before, this is all relatively new to me. i remember when i was getting endorsements, it made me feel good. it made me feel like people were getting behind my efforts. host: to you think it gives the perception of inevitability? guest: maybe to some people. some people probably would respond just the opposite to an endorsement because they do not want to be voted into supporting someone. some people it might a opposite effect. i do not think it might have as much impact as some people might like to think. h of the debate last night in florida, and another one coming up on thursday, are they helping

or hurting? guest: i think it serves a purpose that prepares the eventual nominee to step into the bigger ring that we are going to see -- the person that is going to challenge president obama. i think it is ugly to watch sometimes. i think they are all going to benefit, you know, and make each other stronger and better. i also think that sometimes it hurts the people in that we do not like seeing the fighting and the personal attacks. i wish that was not part of the political process. in the end, i think as you see the untruths, and the things said about themselves -- i am of the opinion if you have to lie to get into office, you probably have to lie to stay there. host: this from "the washington post."

host: which can you put yourself in? guest: probably a little to of both. i think some policies of the president have been terribly damaging, but as far as being an under-performers, i would disagree. i think the president has done exactly what he promised to do. i disagree with what he wanted to do, but if you are a supporter of barack obama and his policies, you would have to be extremely pleased that what was pushed through the one under 111thth congress -- thouge

covers was perfection if you are a liberal-minded supporter of the president. to say he was an under- performer, i think it depends on who you ask. many would say if you supported the president, he was an over- performer. if you believe in his policies host: george will has this column this morning about the former speaker. he writes -- host: are you concerned about

that? guest: that is something any member of congress -- if they are more aligned with another political candidate than the constituents they represent, they are on thin ice. i think any member of congress, if they are staying in touch with their constituents and putting focus on constituents, i think they will be fine. i think the american people are fair and a judge and individual based on their individual performance. i think what happens when an individual starts to focus on things other than constituents, they get in trouble. i found that just in the 12 months that i have been here. i do not want to make that mistake. host: before phone calls, what about the focus on debates -- george will writes gingrich encourages republican voters to nominate he should be nominated because he would do best at most

in three debates with president. guest: obviously, you have to have a 50,000-foot view of the body of work. you cannot look at just their ability to debate. i do not think that is enough. you have to look at the past, and we clearly are seeing people wanting to focus on the past, and we also need to look at what they are doing now. what have they been doing to move policies and our beliefs forward? obviously, we should be attuned to what is their vision. we have to have someone that is a visionary, a united, not a divider, and sometimes in all of these debates it is hard to see that.

host: wayne is a democrat in harrisburg, pennsylvania. caller: the republicans -- i do not care what president obama is trying to do, they are always going against him. why can they not get together and solve this problem that we have? the people are sick and tired of you all. that is all i have to sit. goodbye. host: bringing up that approval rate with 84% disapproving of congress. guest: i understand wayne's aggravation can't let me say this. he made a, -- aggravation. let me say this. he made a comment about how republicans are not for the president and always challenging him. i think it is the responsibility for the minority party to challenge the president.

i think they should do so fairly, but i do not recall staunch democrats supporting president bush. so, there is give and take on both sides. i think there are things that we have done. everyone wants to talk about division. i think there are things we have done the debt been very positive. last year, in the state of the union, the president outlined his desire to repeal the 1099, which we did. the free-trade agreements with south korea, colombia, and pamela -- we found common ground there, in immediately passed those it passed both chambers. wayne, there might be some things he is not looking at, but on a day-to-day basis, there is

a vision of two different americas going forward, but i do not think it is just the idea of the republicans piling on president obama. i think that is a natural thing. host: of our viewers can send you a question on twitter. here is one from c-span junkie. host: in other words, will you endorse me, and i will help you? guest: that is a great question. i personally have met with several candidates, and not one of them have promised me anything. i will tell you, if anyone promised me anything, and they were ford and threw that out there, that would be reason enough for me not to support that candidate.

i went from small business straight to congress. i never surge in an elected position. i run a three-generation business my grandfather started i understand wayne's forecast -- started. i understand wayne's frustration. none of the candidates have made promises to make. host: but they were seeking your endorsement? guest: sherer host: how many phone calls have you received? --sure. host: how many phone calls have you received? -guest: 3, maybe four, but no one asked me to do anything but just the right thing. host: we go to florida. have you already voted? caller: i have not.

congressman, do you think the president violated the constitution when he appointed richard cordray? guest: i think the president. greatly when he -- when you think about what he did in the resource appointment. i do not like rhesus -- recess appointments. -- i do not like recess appointments. if they go against the spirit of proper examination. whether it is a democrat or a republican, i think recess appointments are bad, but i think the constitution is very clear regarding what recess appointments are allowed. when the body is not in recess, you can not claim a recess appointment. so, i do think the president er

rored there, just as we did in our participation in libya. there have been a couple skirts that cross the line. host: steve southerland is our guest. this from twitter -- host: of the 19 members of the florida delegation, eight have endorsed mitt romney, and one has endorsed newt gingrich. guest: many times it is much to do about nothing. host: william, an independent in new jersey. go ahead. guest: i am interested in the

tax cuts. the tax cuts, going back about 10 years, politicians keep talking about how tax cuts helped the economy, producing jobs. for 10 years, we've had these tax cuts, and they're not accomplished anything. the common people in the united states, even though they do not pay a great percentage of the federal income taxes, we pay for the teachers, the fireman, the police department, state employees, county employees, and city employees. the other thing is this bundle of taxes they pay is probably more than equal to all federal income taxes the government collects. guest: i think william is right. the greatness of america in the productivity of america is found in the american people.

i think one of the things when we talk about taxes -- i think the purpose of the text is to support the treasury. -- tax is to support the treasury. i think a good, stable environment produce productivity, and knowing what your taxes are going to be, what regulatory challenges or requirements you are going to have, i think, produces more for our treasury. so, i do agree with william -- i think the american people on the local level, they are the ones that are listing on the -- listing up america, and keeping us on that path that will be positive for our children and grandchildren. the individuals he talks about, the hard-working men and women of this country, obviously might not be paying the most into the

treasury, but on a local level, they do. they are supporting the tax base. it is those dollars providing funds for schools, paying for county government, the city government, and the sales tax enjoyed by every state. host: on the democratic line, robert, go ahead. south carolina. caller: thank you for c-span. i would like to make a couple of points. you seem very smart, as most politicians do. you seem very well-meaning. what you think about the congressehat former candidate rick perry suggested, serving half the time, rather than full-time, and running for

reelection? comment please on term limits. i suggest no one should serve more than six years, five years working, and one year getting familiar with the territory, making acquaintances and forming alliances. five years should be enough for anyone. i am a democrat, but i think people like james clyburn out of south carolina, he is the best thing we've seen out of south carolina in centuries, decades, but the man is old. you are getting out there, sir, nothing personal -- i think so many politicians do not know when to go home. guest: i think he was referring to governor rick perry's comments about tried to make congress a part-time institution. i think one of the things that really produces that comment is

that members of congress seemed distant from the people they represent. when you are distant, -- i think president reagan said government governs best when it is closest to the people. i would agree with robert's assessment there. you -- do you solve that with term limits? i do not know. as far as term limits are concerned, i think bureaucrats here would perhaps love that because they are here. there are permanent fixtures here, in washington d.c.. to have members come in, go out, what you have done it is seated greater responsibility and authority to the full time bureaucrat. do you want bureaucrats to run the country? host: is that not the case with earmarks? guest: perhaps.

that is a valid -- in all fairness, that is a valid argument for earmarks. however, i know we run our business based on a budget model. we look to the needs of all of our company, and determine what funds need to go where. i am a proponent of the proper budgeting process. host: are you against earmarks? guest: i think it is been very good to not have them this year. i think it has been a shock to the system. this year it has been helpful to allow freshmen like me to come in without the diversion of your marks -- earmarks and say we have to be fiscally responsible, and blow it or pass

pieces of legislation based on fiscal merit. thank you to robert for his comments about how i look smart and talk smart. i did not think my children would agree. it is an illusion, robert. i am not quite as smart as sometimes i think i am, but i appreciate that. host: a republican. joe, in plymouth, michigan. caller: i am calling about the congress passing these jobs bills, they're sitting on senator harry reid's desk, and then they have an approval rating of 12%. then president obama says he goes to sleep about american jobs, and he turns down the keystone pipeline. what is going on out there? guest: there is great aggravation. the president talks of letting do-nothing congress. i think wayne earlier made a

comment about bashing the president. i do not think it is bashing just to point out some things that i disagree with. is not personal. i think it is fair game to point out. it is the 1000 days -- today, it is the 1000 days since the senate has passed a budget. one of the things we have, and i will show this to your viewers, we have little buttons called 1000 days. host: are you -- are those in new? guest: we are wearing them today. we will wear them tonight, because unfortunately the american media does not tell the story. c-span does a great job of allowing american citizens to see what goes on on capitol hill. unfortunately, the mainstream

media is not telling me american people that 1000 days has passed since senator harry reid has passed a budget. the frustration that joe has in the house bills that the house has passed that are sitting on harry reid's desk, to me, we can pass legislation on one side of the house. we that is not correct. host: who passed out the buttons/ guest: jeff duncan from south carolina. host: who will wear them? guest: we have not heard from the leadership. i got that from jeff duncan. there was a note on my desk.

host: you're wearing that. guest: i wanted to introduce that on c-span. host: he and others will be wearing that during the speech tonight. fore taking phone calls steve southerland. go ahead, sarah. caller: i have been watching the debate for the purpose of seeing what the republican solutions are verses president. i have a serious problem when they start using degrading remarks against the president. i would like to know what you feel about the filibuster in the senate. guest: thank you. sarah call me a representative. that's the proper term. i believe that we have to have

representatives of the people here in congress. we do not need enough congressmen. i think congressman have been part of the problem. i note on my business card, every piece of literature we send out -- you have an expectation that i represent and i think that is good. to your point with degrading remarks, i find that is not helpful. i can disagree with the president without the degrading remarks. look in my voting record. i disagree with my own house leadership many times. but i have not degrade them. there is a right way to disagree just as there is a right way to agree.

host: did you disagree with the decision to go ahead with the two-month extension of the payroll tax cuts? guest: i wanted the one year. fighting to give the american people $1,000 as opposed to 60 days -- host: did you disagree with your gop colleagues? guest: we did not need the payroll tax to expire. i agree we could not get december 31 and allow that to expire. we were not advocates of that in the house. you have to continue to work up until the 11th hour and to find a solution. we have a 27% cut in medicare

reimbursements. i care a tremendous for our seniors. when doctors don't have a certainty of those medicare reimbursements, many doctors will stop offering medicare services to seniors. we cannot allow that to happen. there was a two-year fix for the medicare reimbursement and to prevent that -- there were some things in there. i am an advocate for the keystone pipeline. you do not want the oil to be shipped over to china. that is an environmental risks. hard-working men and women understand that. i disagree with the president.

i think tourist a right way and a wrong way. host: we have a comment on twitter. guest: i do not control the schedule. it is a challenge. when we are not here, we're working in the district. it could be say you're damned if you do and damned if you do not. i have 16 counties and 12,000 square miles and my district pairs to some of those out west. what is work? "work."efine you have to have balance.

you have to be here to do the work of the people. i am doing the work of the people when i'm traveling. people are working 18, 20 hours in the district. that is a necessary component. i think we will continue to find that balance. >> the panhandle area. john mccain won your district. on tuesday, what about -- what should people be looking for from your district? guest: i think that florida is probably the most diverse state the we have seen in the primary

process. perhaps florida may be somewhat of a litmus test of what happens going forward. we have a diverse population south of orlando. you have the hispanic population and the corridor that connects orlando to tampa. then we have the panhandle and the big bend area. that is similar to south georgia. farmland, the fishing industry is large. much more rural and much more conservative. and you have the time change. i think it will be interesting to see how each of the candidates tries to appeal to a broader set of voters.

it will be very interesting. i think florida could be a crystal ball. host: gary is a democrat. caller: long time listener. mr. bonner said before barack took office, the number-one thing was to defeat him no matter what. i can understand that to a political points. i am a progressive democrat. i do not agree with a lot of what the president has done. not one republican the last three years can agree with not

one think this president has put out there when a lot of what he has put out there are republican ideas. for me personally, i honor and revers dr. king, i hear people say "content of character." how long will this go on? it appears you're not go along with this man because of the color of his skin. guest: thank you for the call. i don't believe anyone should say their number one goal in any congress is to get somebody unelected. host: you disagree with the leader in the senate. guest: i do not think that is the proper way that we should

be as representatives of the people -- i represent the men and women of florida's second congressional district. the american people will choose who they want to represent them based on not just the content of their character but their consistency for high ideas. the vision for america going forward. how people get elected or not elected -- gary said that none of us. he put me in a boat and i think that's unfair. he said none of us have supported a single thing. that is not true.

the president talked about three things in his speech that i think we found common ground on. the 1099 repeal was enormous. that was in the health-care bill and there was common ground. wonderful thing. second thing, the need to pass the free trade agreements, the south korea, panama, and columbia. we need to extend the payroll tax cut for hard-working men and women of this country. we agree there. it is unfair to say we do not agree on everything. we're going to challenge each other. to try to demean them as people

is not productive and beneath what we should -- beneath the standard that we should set. but i agree with much of what gary said. host: we have a tweet from dennis. guest: the president has nothing to do with the senate. nowhere on this button doesn't say anything about president obama. harry reid is the head of the senate's and has been so for the past 1000 days. it is a responsibility of the mainstream media to report all the happenings on capitol hill. when your debt exceeds your

gdp and every american citizen owes almost $4,000, the first thing you would do if you're in a financial mess, the first step you take is to implement a budget. individuals and companies have to do that. states have to do that. we are in such a financial mess. nowhere on this button doesn't make any reference to president obama. this is to highlight. the president wants to say a do- nothing congress. everybody knows the congress has two houses.

i think that it is unfair. host: that is a button in response to that. guest: in response to harry reid. it doesn't say anything about the president. if it bothers the caller -- if he is more worried about the blunt than the senate has not passed a budget, i have to wonder what is concern is going forward. a button that states the truth or the real truth that the senate has not passed a budget. i am amazed that people are more upset about a button. host: lakewood, washington, jeffrey. caller: good morning. kicky, c-span -- thank you, c-

span. i would like to find out what is the representative has, what he's been doing. an observation about our service economy. we have moved to a service economy and learned how to distribute it to the world. host: real quick. caller: sorry. are we just fighting over a piece of pie that is not there anymore? there is nothing left. host: all right. guest: as far as is pie comment -- the federal government is getting a bigger piece of the pie. no one is looking to make more money over the last 12 months

than the federal government. they are a model to take more of the benefits from the american people, the hard-working men and women of this country. people have to do more with less. the federal government is doing less with more. that is appalling to me. we owe future generations. i would agree with jeffrey's pie comment. we're getting crumbs. the government is getting the whole pie. host: virginia, an independent. caller: why is there one talking about the payroll tax cut but nobody is talking about cutting taxes for people on social

security or eliminating the tax? thank you for taking my call. guest: keith is spot-on. for seniors to pay tax on social security benefits is wrong. i think you tell much about the society by the way they care for their seniors and insure them. we have to make sure. i am passionate about the issues surrounding medicare. careconcerned at the health- bill cut medicare by half a trillion dollars. the sequestration -- i am concerned about the sequestration. we will continue to have further cuts to medicare. host: there is a cap of 2%.

guest: you talk about the 27% cut and reduction to reimbursements to doctors. doctors are providing medicare services to our seniors. i'm seeing these cuts and potential cuts to the quality of life of seniors. social security, reducing taxes on our seniors collecting social security. i am for income in judgment. i think perhaps people do not need those adjustments. means testing is a good thing. you have some in the upper income that do not need those benefits as the seniors on fixed incomes and of not had any cost of living increases.

i would agree with him in making sure seniors have tax relief when they are on fixed social security benefits. host: the president gives his state of the union speech tonight. mitch daniels gives the response. he seems like a hard- working governor that has represented the people very good. i do not know him. i know he loves to ride that motorcycle. host: we have a picture of the governor wririding a motorcycle. there's some call for the indiana governor to jump into the race. we will be covering the speech as well as the gop response from

indiana governor and we will take your phone calls later tonight. congressman steve southerland, thank you for being with us. guest: thank you to an c-span frolic great work you do -- for the great work you do. host: "the myth of american productivity." we will talk about that next. >> newt gingrich is calling his republican presidential rival mitt romney a "desperate guy throwing wild punches." he said he was "outrageously dishonest." he said mr. romney was an investor in those companies. "i do not own any freddie mac

and fannie mae stocks, and he does." john boehner was asked about mitt romney earning tens of millions of dollars by paying less than 14% in taxes. he suggested that look yet ,resident obama's tax returns one can see the same type in terms of income and investments. general electric is more the face of a broken tax system. mitt romney is releasing his taxes in full this morning. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. [video clip] >> mr. speaker, the president of the united states. [cheers] >> tonight, president obama

delivers his state of the union address. live coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern, including the president's speech, republican response by indiana governor mitch daniels, and your phone calls, live on c-span and c- span radio. on c-span2, watch the president's speech along with tweets from members of congress. and after the address, more reaction from house members and senators. throughout the night, go online for live video and to add your comments using facebook and twitter at cspan.org for more resources in the presidential race, use c-span's campaign 2012 website to watch videos of the candidates on the campaign trail, see what the candidates have said on issues important to you, and read the latest from candidates, political reporters, and people like you from social media sites at cspan.org/campaign2012. >> "washington journal" continues. host: michael mandel wrote the piece "myth of american

productivity." i want to show one part we talk about statistics that show how our economy is doing. you write this. guest: i want to thank you for having me on to talk about economic statistics. it is such a dry statistics. every day you hear statistics. it is like the water that we swim in. the problem comes when we think we know what is going on. everybody thought the economy was doing great. they did not have the right numbers. the problem we have is almost

without us knowing, we have become a global economy. any conduct which is much more tied to the outside world that we thought -- an economy. the people working at the -- people were working very hard. the statistical system has not kept up to the changes in the economy. we're so dependent on the outside world. we don't have a domestic economy. we have a system of national economic statistics. there are various reasons. it makes us look like we're doing better than we are. host: that leads to the title of

the myth ofiece -- " american productivity." guest: we have barack obama and mitt romney talking about the u.s. worker. we are counting stuff that is being imported as if it was made in the u.s. you might think, how can we do that? if you are counting boxes, you would not do that. the people count up the dollar value of what is coming in and try to adjust for the difference in prices. the world has changed so much that their adjustments are not picking up -- say, the shift to china.

we are importing things much cheaper than we're making. if you look at the data, it looks like since the recession started that the amount of clothing that americans buy it has increased. you go into malls and you see people shopping. u.s. domestic production of clothing has gone down and imports of clothing has gone down, too. be?can now bthat host: are american workers not the productive? guest: the productivity gains over the past 10 years that makes it look like we're doing great had been overstated. the gains have been much less than it seems.

rather than productivity growing at 2%, the gains have been less. if you think that you were the most productive workers and if you think your part to the -- your productivity, you're not willing to do what needs to be done. the debate is almost based on the complacency. nobody wants to do the hard work. host: what are the democratic solutions and the republican solutions? and why are they wrong? guest: we are not investing enough. our investment rates by the private sector and by government are low. we have a consumption-driven economy. from the point of view of the democrats, their solution is

perhaps more regulation and perhaps a bigger fiscal stimulus. from the republicans, the solution is to get government out of the way. neither solution addresses what workers really need. we have been working on a production economy initiative. that is kind of almost heresy. people say we need to get the u.s. consumer and back again. people are buying things that are made overseas. the amount they are buying is bigger than the numbers show. when the date is wrong, everybody gets the wrong idea about what is going on. host: democrats are saying you

need to stimulate the economy. you say that helps countries overseas and imports. republicans say we need to lower taxes. guest: they assume that -- you need a concentrated effort to rebuild the investment in this country in the private sector and the public sector. you need to rebuild infrastructure and invest in research and development. this is for the balance is off. you need to encourage private- sector investment. we have been looking at better data for better jobs. one thing the ppi has proposed is a competitor us audititive a.

look to see where we are competitive. that date it does not exist right now. then you would know where to focus your energy in terms of bringing jobs back again. host: the data does not exist. we see a call for investment in green energy. we do not know if we are competitive in that. guest: we do not know if we're competitive in steel. we do not know which industries where behind the curve in and which ones we are close to. you think about the data. i feel funny talking about data.

if you don't have the right information, you are sure to make the wrong decisions. host: my we discover we're not competitive in many industries and therefore we should be consumer-driven? guest: you would have a major crisis on your hand. then you might get cooperation between the democrats and republicans to do what needs to be done. people know that things are bad. host: richard in missouri. caller: i was calling -- a sales tax on that at the retail and ticket sales tax and put it in social security to offset what jobs we're losing. they are not paying social

security because they are losing jobs. that would equal the playing bit. kilobia little guest: we to fix the tax system for a global economy. we did not have a tax system that encourages production in the u.s. i'm not sure that the exact sales tax would work. there are ways of changing the tax system that might have the possibility of leveling the playing field. it is impossible to get the support for that unless we know what the difference in prices are. host: michael in michigan. caller: good morning. middle-aged man in michigan.

productivity. always heard americans have the highest productivity in the world. it is refreshing to hear you tell the truth. i don't believe we do have the greatest -- with unions, government workers. you cannot be fired. a friend of mine at g.m. they used to punch in and sneak out. they did that all the time. they are at the bar. when they get caught, they go to arbitration and end up with a 30-day vacation. host: the role of unions. guest: i will take a step back from the role of unions. if we know what the right data

was, we could have the right conversation. data showed productivity was lower, weakened tell you--right now we cannot have a good conversation about this. this fellow might cite it is the unions. this is my belief, that the problems in the data are part of what is poisoning the political discussion in the u.s. today. people say that the data says everything is ok but they can say it is not. i see jobs disappearing or people loafing off. host: matt asks on twitter. he missed the opening. guest: that is partly what is

happening. stuff is being moved overseas or shipped from japan to places like china. these global supply chains are being counted as if they are part of the u.s. host: what is domestic productivity? guest: domestic productivity would be u.s. factory workers or u.s. office workers be more productive because we have invested in training or better software here. you, and more productive because you move stuff overseas -- you come in a more productive because you move stuff overseas. it is a real difference. host: it doesn't translate into jobs and wages.

guest: exactly. if i improve productivity by putting in a faster machine, that should pay off with more jobs and a higher wages. if i increase productivity by moving overseas, that will help the managers the put together the global supply chain. host: linda in dallas, texas. caller: good morning. my question is, we are not making and manufacturing our own clothes. i just feel like we should start there in productivity instead of shipping are close we don't even make shoes.

you move into the higher-paying jobs. the factories in the nickel stores and it creates -- more technology came on in. it feels like we should start small and at least make our own clothing. guest: it is unlikely it will start making our own clothing. the gap between what it makes overseas and what it would cost to make here is quite large. we are not counting that gap as part of what is going on. i want to talk about solutions at this point. finding out what is going on in terms of the difference in pricing between what we make here and what we import from overseas. do a better job tracking the global supply trains through the

u.s. economy. we export an awful lot. how much are we reporting imported parts? we used to put these goods and services together. we know very little about what is going on between the u.s. and the global economy. host: why do we know so little? guest: we have a system that was designed for a simpler age and because nobody really cares that much about data. everybody is willing to accept what they are given a lesson goes against a pet theory. you see president obama talking about u.s. workers being the most productive in the world. the democrats and republicans have found it useful for their

own purposes to say this. it would cost very little in relative terms to find out what was going on. host: we have a question on twitter. guest: i do not think them cheating on the inflation rate reduces productivity. chinese products -- there's been a big shift from things being made elsewhere to things being made in china. a shift from other countries to china as well. we may find out that the productivity over the last 10 years was a lot less than we thought it was. host: roy from las vegas, good morning. caller: i have been trying to

come up with some statistics. i wonder how big the bureaucracy is. how much it takes to pay for one federal employee. i have an approximate average, $80,000 and a non federal makes about $50,000, not counting postal service and the military. it takes 10% tax for individuals to finance the hiring of one employee, one federal employee. i do not know if they know how many federal employees. it would take $10 million or $15 million to pay for federal employees, not counting any

infrastructure. do you have any statistics on that? guest: given our level of spending is a bigger burden depending on what side the economy is. host: we do not know the size of our economy? guest: we do not know how much wheat produced here. we do not know -- we do not know how much we produce here. we do not know how much we really produce. the burden of taxes depends on how much we produce. if we are overestimating the size of the economy, we may be underestimating the burden of the taxes. that might help explain the

debate between the two sides. host: we might need more taxes? guest: the burden might be heavier than we think. some people are talking as if they are living in one reality. if you believe the data is not reflecting the global economy, it becomes easier to understand. competition and how well are we doing against as competition. do we have any idea of how well we're doing? the government produces facts and figures. do they have any facts and figures between the price difference between u.s. products and foreign-made products? the answer is no. the scale of money we could

spend -- it was as if we were trying to do a diagnosis and our thermometer was broken. host: kyl in utah -- kyle. caller: i just retired this year. i'm 60 years old. i was fired in my first two jobs for union organizing. the nlrb back in those days did not work for workers. i'm tired of people complaining about paying taxes and not being able to do something. the people i've worked with will not have a defined retirement. my kids are working class kids. you people don't understand that capitalism has not worked for the working class.

guest: capitalism has worked for the working class when capitalism works. the question is whether capitalism has been working. what we've seen over the last 10 years is a looks like the economy has done well and that workers have done poorly. real wages for many people have collapsed. it could be that the u.s. economy is not doing as well as it seems and will we have to do is invest more here to help workers. how do with -- what do we need to do it to help workers? if we think the u.s. workers are the most productive, you do not worry about trying to boost their productivity. the best thing you can do is invest in this country.

host: where we the most competitive? throw mym going to hands and say we don't have the data to tell us the answer to that. groundthat we're losing in terms of market share in a lot of areas. it would suggest we have a problem in a lot of places. i want somebody to take a look at this and find out. we know there areas where u.s. companies are competitive. they have extended their global supply chains overseas. then we can understand what we should be doing. host: mark from syracuse, new york. caller: i will start with

unions. they complain about unions. south carolina has never had unions. let's forget unions. what has happened as far as the middle class disappearing. overl find there's been 40,000 companies that have gone out of business, gone overseas and taken all those american jobs with them. we need somebody that says that we have gone through this stuff and we're going to get our energy policy and put america to work until we get this solved. the last thing is iran and north korea. let's not mess around with these people. let's say that we will not go

through this again. build all the bombs you want. put pressure there as well. guest: i want to take the last point and talk about the defense. one of the greatest strengths of the u.s. economy was that we been able to convert our manufacturing prowess into weapons when we needed to. it is important about the size of the industrial bases. we have no real idea what the manufacturing capability is of the u.s. there was an article about how apple is making all these iphones overseas. there were quotations about people saying how the u.s. economy is not capable of producing things like this anymore.

i read that and said what they're telling us is that the u.s. economy, the defense inductor base has eroded far faster than we realize. when the caller talks about potential military problems, we need to know is how big really could we -- how easy it would be to convert our manufacturing base into a defense base? a lot of it is to measure the war-fighting capability of the u.s. and other countries so you know what you have when you go to war. host: we have an e-mail from jay.

guest: that is an interesting idea. i think there is less of that going on than it seems. we would see a lot more factory's opening up in the u.s. it would mean we would be competitive against the rest of the world. we do not see that. we see factories closing. i am not anti-trade or protectionist. things have changed in ways that is not clear from the data and that we will make bad decisions. host: here's a tweet. guest: we do not need more consumers at this point. we need to shift from a

consumption mentality to a production mentality. that will help workers and businesses. we need to encourage people to consume, consume, consume. it makes our situation worse. that would be great if we were in high-productive economy. if you go out and buy another smart phone and by clothing or whatever you feel enthusiastic about that day, that is not helping production here. that is helping production overseas. right now we're telling people the wrong thing. this is a shift from consumption to production. host: tom writes on twitter. guest: i think it requires a --

there are things we can produce in the u.s. -- a lot of software and intellectual property. creating jobs in retail to handle imported goods -- you are digging your own grave if you're not producing something that you can sell overseas in return. we have to start thinking about ourselves as producers and not consumers and after that way. -- and act that way. that will be a resonant theme, that we in the u.s. have to think of ourselves as a production economy. host: and likely to hear from the president tonight about manufacturing and the themes of that. guest: i think the president has

done a 90-degree pivot. he was thinking the u.s. wasn't great shape and all we needed was a stimulus to get us going again. andwe've seen in sourcing that maybe there was a problem. now a tourist and emphasis on anufacturing. -- now there's emphasis on manufacturing. i think it would be effective talking to people who know that there is something wrong who do not want to be told, you are the most productive workers in the world when they are out of work. what good does it do them? host: roy, go ahead. caller: thank you.

you are on the right track of inquiry. we can compare our productivity with the rest of the world with a great deal of accuracy -- that is medical care. we know pretty much we spend. we spend two and a half times what they spend and we get half of the return. therefore we are five times more inefficient that australia. four times more efficient than canada. this is what is killing us. the real market is telling us that the jobs that go begging, that latinos do, are the fundamental jobs -- farming, mining, forestry. if we were to put these fundamental work -- everything

has to come from the earth. if we put these people on medicare, the first million, just americans who happen working for five years, you would see a productivity you wouldn't believe. we would start catching up with the rest of the world. germany did this in 1883. the steel company demanded this. they got hurt and sick. host: michael mandel. guest: i will answer this quickly. health care is important. we spend time worrying about costs in health care but not with productivity in health

care. if collected the number of health care workers in the economy compared to the size of the population, the health-care workforce has been increasing far faster than the population. a good way of defining our health care problem is in terms of falling productivity. ppi --ng we're doing at we have an initiative that says we're to worry about productivity and that is the think about it.ght way we need more health care workers per patient. we need -- the number of

health-care workers to care for an elderly person has been increasing. if you project it over the future, current trend in the health-care work force, we run out of workers around 2045. that's the real definition of the health-care crisis. cost is not an accurate measure of productivity. health care productivity and innovation is will we need to be focusing on. i feel like a giant economic downer in terms of talking about these things. certain things that people do not talk about. it is not fun to talk about. you say, what is real?

it is import to know what is real. host: jim is a democrat in tennessee. caller: i have been told that 90% of oil on the offshore rigs are sent to the world market and not helping the american people except maybe in alaska. we were forced to import oil in 1968 with never stopped exporting oil. i heard that the keystone oil pipeline -- it goes to the world market. host: i'm running out of time. guest: a great area of improvement has been energy because of increased natural gas production. i do not want to get into keystone here.

you have to distinguish between energy production and manufacturing and the higher and in townsvilles -- the higher-end intangibles. host: we see this number being released about consumer confidence or things like this. which ones should we disregard? guest: the employment statistics are accurate. the inflation statistics are accurate. the ones that are problematic is the productivity statistics and then the statistics about what is happening to the growth rate of imports. those are the ones that are problematic. we don't have a good idea on productivity. this is a result of supply chain

productivity, from overseas. we don't have a good idea in terms of imports. the real value of our goods and services is lower than they were when the recession started. that seems improbable when you look at what happens in the economy. host: one last tweet. guest: i would say the economy is staggering and the way to get out of it is to shift our focus to a production economy. host: that is a solution in your mind. guest: it is more than a policy solution. it is a shift in the way we think about ourselves and the way we think about our goals and what we're willing to do and to give up. host: can the presidento