the criminal context, we say you do bad things, we don't have a way to hold you responsible. >> see those remarks as part of our prime time lineup. includes a former navy seal on a mission that resulted in the killing of osama bin laden. also, one person who has a facebook >> this week on "newsmakers," we are talking with fred upton. welcome. >> good to be here. >> two reporters with this, michael lillis and s. -- and sean lengell. >> you may call me fred. [laughter] thank you for the offer. >> a long tough week. a fight over the table tax

extension. this has been perceived and written about as a political victory for president obama and the democrats. i t was his idea and this is an issue that he wanted to get done. you as one of the authors of the final package, what do you think that republicans got out of the deal? how are you going to go back to the district and say this is good? >> a couple of things. you remember the date we have. the president asked for a one- year extension. the house republican support that. that was that before the christmas holiday. we paid for the whole thing. the senate only did two months and remember, they left town. we will see you in six weeks. at the end of the day, the vote we had on friday, the majority of republicans voted. for a little while, it looked like football. here we go with the super committee all over again. it is not going to happen. angry people.

we have protesters at by office back in mr. again this last week. whether it be unemployed and -- we had protesters at my office back in michigan again last week. of course, you have the payroll tax. if not extended, i t was going to be a tax hike on every working american. averages about a thousand dollars per person. i could have been more. -- it could have been more. if you look to the debate that we had -- things were gridlock ed. the decision was made. we are going to take the payroll tax off the table because we were going to pass this just by itself. then, we will deal with the other items.

if you did cover the public hearings that we had, the discussions, the conference committee, at all of four of them that we have i want to say, every democrat that was there said yes, we want all of this to happen. from their side, they did not want to pay for it. and none of it. we insisted that at least as we go to conference -- one bill passes, the other bill passes. you have to work the differences out and at the end of the day we said we are going to pay for all of the new spending here. we did. >> you do not see this as a political liability? and all. the proof in the pudding is, more than half of the republicans voted for it. i would not call it a victory just for the president. it is for sitting down for weeks

right now, ironing the differences out. i want to say, every member of the house signed the conference support and felt it was a good agreement that would go forward. >> but, your leadership -- everyone has been pushing that this tax cuts be paid for with cuts elsewhere. >> we knew you could not get it done. we also wanted -- one of the things that i worked on and also the telecommunications subcommittee chair, we did a big effort on spectrum, which we included in this. that was part of the hell's -- the house bill. at the end of the day, it could create as many as 300,000 jobs if this plays out for our devices and communications. it is a major thrust in the

right direction that, again was truly bipartisan. >> how would you justify or explain to the public that -- they might see this as caving to democratic demand. >> if you did not extend to -- my state michigan, until just last month or so, we have had 38 consecutive months of double- digit unemployment. we have really been in a recession. we have been harder hit than any other state. if you let this tax cut expire, it would be a tax increase on every working american. in the time of a recession, that is not the thing that we ought to do. that is why it had bipartisan support, as we moved it to the house. looking back at the house passed

bill, back in december, not every republican, but 99 -- 95% of republicans voted for it all. we ran into stiff resistance by the other side. we have to make a decision that at least for any new spending, and the reimbursement rate for the -- the reimbursement rate and the unemployment extension even though we reduced the number of weeks things that our side so was very important, we were able to include in the package that was better than to -- two to 1. >> the democrats are really hammering you guys. they made this a class issue. republicans passed the bill that

pay for the entire -- pay for the entire federal tax extension. you did not pay for the wealthy. how do you justify that different? >> a couple of things. when we did pay for the whole thing in december, we paid for it with a three-year freeze on all government salaries. except for the military. non-military. the president, i think, as i understand it, made it pretty clear that was not going to be in the final package. in fact, the budget he sent out earlier this week calls for a pay hike for all federal employees. we are running into major resistance on that. we had to make different adjustments and we did and we did relating to the pensions of all new federal employees. they're going to get less when they retire.

but, the idea that we would have a permanent tax increase for temporary tax extension was never going to fly. in fact, during some of the hearings we had amongst our conferees, the point was made up and they failed every time. at the head different levels. it never got both. it was out of the scope. one of the things the chairman said was, look, we are going to make it the house provisions in the senate provisions. we are went to work out the differences between the two and we are not taking in new items that were outside the scope of the conference. >> can i interrupt you? because of the temporary tax cut, you have to pay for it. if you do not have to. after the 2010 elections -- the first thing you did with

obama's blessing was to pass and $858 billion hike. >> it was with his blessing. there was an article written that said the tax cut were export -- the tax cuts were supported. president obama signed it. it was passed with pretty good bipartisan support. as it relates to your specific question remember, the senate rejected that. it was not part of the senate bill. the idea they were going to add it back in was never going to fly. >> do you think we're going to go through this again in december? secretary geithner came out and said that he is fine with the extension for another 10 months but no more. i know things depend on employment rate and all that. do you think we will have this battle again in december? >> i do not know.

i am glad to get through the week. [laughter] we have a lot of things, particularly at the end of the year, that have to be addressed. that is one of them. we have the sequestration that automatically kicks in because of the debt ceiling of vote from last august. i read that they are expecting to bump the debt ceiling again before the end of the year. we're going to have the election. knowing the democrats -- it looks like we're going to have probably a continuing resolution. someone made the point earlier in asia that i was watching -- the lame duck is going to beat a lot more -- is going to be better. the question it begs is this. for those major tax -- the bush tax cuts the bush/obama tax

cuts, it begs that we do need tax reform on the big play. as one that was on the super committee and lots of discussions, hundreds of hours it was equally divided between house and senate. one of the silver linings i saw happen was, what i expect to be the leadership led by dave camp. he is the chairman of the ways and means committee. in the senate, you see they will be coming together on the needed tax reform. maybe these provisions that expire will provide what is necessary to get to the finish line.

yes, they expire december 31. for most americans, the impact does not hit until april 15 of 2014. the tax hike kicks in january 13, -- january of 2013, but you do need -- you do not pay taxes until the end of the year. that allows you time to say, what is it we have to do? i would like to see the rates come down. it could be simplified. talk about general electorates'. -- bge -- ge. let us figure it out. i had the chairman of pfizer in my district in my office not too long ago. he said, fred, switzerland has a tax rate of 13%. we are at 35%. where are we going? let us lower our rates. let us look at these reductions.

i think we can actually get jobs and therefore, and i think you will see that in the platform of any one of our republican nominees, maybe even this president, as well, we need tax reform. we need to get it done. >> you hit the administration pretty hard over cylinder, which is the failed -- >> it has been a yield right now -- it has been a year. >> when that initially floated there was not much criticism in congress. does congress takes responsibility for the failure of the program? >> the republicans now have had the house for barely a year. it was literally a year this week we began our investigation of solyndra. we have been trying to get the answers to questions from the get go.

finally, this last summer, we actually have to subpoena the documents. it took a long time for some of those to get done. we wrote a tough letter a couple -- two weeks ago. we ask for more information that we think is being withheld from us even able to interview a career folks at the office of management and budget who watch every penny and where it goes. that has been denied. the good news is, this last week thursday, the administration agreed for us to conduct some interviews with people that i think are in the know. we will see where they take us. two days from now we have best for more documentation from the white house. -- we have asked for more documentation from the white house. we will see. it has been terrible that it has been a whole year. i will tell you what our goal is. things went clearly off the

track. the oversight and investigations subcommittee, one that i once cheered, they are entrusted with looking after fraud and abuse wherever they can find it. my big issue when i was chairman was firestone tires. let us find out what went wrong and then we need to come back and fix it. we lost more than half a billion dollars. under the law in terms of the loan the taxpayers should come first under bankruptcy. that was changed. who changed it? why did it happen? who were the ones who encouraged them to change it? even at the end, you remember they announced they were going belly up in august of 2010.

even then, they were in the queue for yet another band-aid alone in the millions of dollars to keep them afloat. it was finally tonight two days later. they said, came up. we cannot make it. how did we get into this miss -- mess? we need all of the answers. hopefully we will get them. we need to come back with legislation to make sure it does not happen again. i am sorry it has taken a whole year. >> there been news reports that beckham 2009, you had as the obama administration to look at a michigan company that went bankrupt. what is the difference between that solar firm and what you ask for -- >> our delegations, republicans and democrats, sent a letter asking them to consider a loan. they did not get it. i do not know anybody squawked.

we are often -- we often request different delegations made. it was denied. case closed. solyndra is totally different. we have evidence that people within the administration said this is not ready for prime time. the application started under the bush administration. they stopped from allowing it to go forward. it week or two after president obama was in office, things change. agreement was given. laws were changed. all of this is considerably different than what is a delegation letter for an agency to look at a project within a delegation state. >> the conservative group has been critical of you for your support of that loan guarantee. and thinking about backing a primary challenge, they were quoted as saying, fred upton is supporting market the sporting -- market distorting energy

subsidies. how do you respond? >> you know, they club for growth. it is a free country. they can back different candidates. >> you believe in the loan guarantee program? >> we ask, in this particular case, the delegation -- we asked the department of energy to consider this as an application. we did not weigh in on the merits, in particular. the money was there. with solyndra, it is a totally different issue. it has been like pulling teeth to get answers out of the administration in terms of how this got off the track let alone the half a billion dollars they did not apologize for losing. >>the taxpayer did not lose any other money on the other left hurt that the delegation sent because it was never approved. >> in the legislation to

resolve cylinder, what did restore the loan guarantee program, in general? >> we want to make sure that when money is used, the company does not make it, the taxpayer comes first in line. >> while we are on energy the keystone decision, a very unpopular amongst your party. but, you have a tough time getting legislation through the senate and obama said he would veto it. how are you going to get it approved? >> actually, i think. -- actually, i think -- we did a telephone conference this week. when you do this, and you can ask folks who were on the phone -- it is live. i can ask questions. i said, i ran through the

keystone merits. how many people support it? 88 to 12. 80 percent supported it. i am convinced that it has been a bipartisan effort. we have millions of miles of pipeline. yes, we a pipe lines that connect the u.s. with canada. this is something the state department has been studying for more than three years. secretary clinton indicated in october of 2010 she was inclined to support its progress. in august of this last year, she said, we will have a decision even before the end of the year. then you have this big protests done at the white house. they're wearing the white house. the environmental groups say, if you allow this to happen, we are not going to support you in the election. within a week or so, the president says no. we are born to put this off until after the election.

-- we are going to put this off until after the election. >> do you think obama supports this plan on his marriage? >> they should support it. this is more than 20,000 jobs. it is a million barrels a day of oil that will be refined in this country. americans understand supply and demand. they are not really happy with these gas prices. we heard a lot of that on my telecom meeting this week. the prime minister of canada who i met with, and made no bones about it. they're producing -- they will be producing nearly 4 million barrels a day in alberta canada. if we will not take it here, they have that turn on the other side of the pacific and the prime minister was there and they would love to have a long- term commitment to take that oil there. it is going to go. it is either going to come here and displace toyo the we are

getting from a great nations like venezuela -- displace oil we are getting from great nations like venezuela. >> how are you going to get it done? >> we passed the bill last week. it was included in the highway and transportation bill the house passed this last week. the speaker being allowed a lot of -- speaker boehner allowed lots of amendments. the senate has a different bill. i do not know if it will be in the senate bill. we will see what happens. we are hoping we can get this to the president's desk. it is a little bit of a different version than what he had before. what he had before it was he had this -- to certify it was not in the national interest. he said this. >> the senate will pass it? >> what we did was we said, we designed this under the same way that the alaska pipeline was designed back in the '70s.

if it means the environmental criteria that is there and the president just signed a key piece of legislation in january, the pipeline safety bill. it will meet the new standards. if it meets the standards the route change nebraska supports it, it shall be approved by the federal energy regulatory commission. within 30 days. it takes it off the president's desk. maybe the president can say, ok. i do not have a role here anymore. if it meets the standards, it is done. we are hoping that this version will go and you will remember as it relates to the senate, they were the ones that also put it into the two month extension on the payroll tax. we had in our bill in the house, but ours is a full year. they did that to month and then they added it to theirs, knowing they have that -- knowing that

we had the votes. every senator voted for it. >> we are running out of time. we have a couple more questions. >> back on keystone, as far as recreation. some of the figures -- you mentioned 20,000. at the chamber said to lenin and 50,000. -- said 250,000. critics say the net gain would be zero. it would destroy a lot of jobs. >> how? >> it is going to be buried. this is pipeline that is going to be late. i think most folks say that 20,000 direct jobs is the right number. i was in philadelphia and they are actually closing refineries because they do not have the volume of crude as they once had. texas, they are adding refinery

jobs there in addition to -- this is a 7 billion construction projects. . in one of the saturday radio addresses, the president said, i will do whatever it takes to get jobs. this is a jobs bill. most folks will agree that it is 20,000 direct jobs. as many as 118,000. more than 100,000 indirect jobs. folks that are in the hotels and restaurants and all of the things that have come about. and, it is nearly a million barrels a day we do not have to get from somebody else. if gas prices go up -- they're going to go up 60 cents before memorial day. some are predicting $5 a gallon by the fourth of july. that plus demand down in the u.s. as the economy picks up, and i

would like to think that happens, there is a greater thirst for this oil. if we just send it to china how does that help us? that is what canada will do if we say no. >> switching gears. big outcry over the obama's administration's decision to require nonprofits to cover contraception. do you think that as a minimum standard women should have access to free contraception as a preventative health care? >> obamacare is the vehicle that allow the administration to do this. a government run health care. as i looked at this decision, and we are having secretary sebelius testified. she is coming march 1. she knows she is going to get a lot of questions on this. for me and a lot of others, and the speaker took to the house

floor last week and said, this is truly unconstitutional. how does this happen? what are the answers that we have to get responded to as we look at legislation to reverse this that hhs is pursuing? >> is contraception -- >> we are not looking at it as that. we're looking at it as religious freedom. what is it that is stepping on the bounce of a nadir dame -- of a noted university or a catholic charity? they oppose the decision that was made. let us look at in that perspective, not necessarily that -- the various things that might or might not be covered. >> i have to leave it there. real quickly as we wrap it up -- >> -- >> on friday, we heard about

somebody on their way to the capital on a suicide mission. -- on their way to the capitol on a suicide mission. what notice were you given, what sort of intelligence were you given by the -- >> i thought you were going to talk about something else. we were notified. i got a black. . we all carry black berries. -- i have a blackberry. we all carry blackberrys. no one was in harm's way. >> do you think you should have been notified before he was arrested? >> i do not know enough. this is in the last couple of hours. we will learn more about it. i do not know -- we had a number of votes on some important subjects. the police take our security

very seriously as they should. i am very glad that they caught him. again, we have had two different notices now that were sent. one that he was caught and arrested and one that was a little bit more detail that i literally read as i was waiting to come out here. and they assured us they have this under control from the get go, which is good. did we know about it in advance? no. >> can you share details? >> i do not have any. i do not know much about it. thank goodness the system worked. >> thank you. appreciate your time. >> thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> congress agrees to pass this bill tax extension for a year. let us fast-forward to december 31, 2012. do they do it again?