askedaround. >> one of the things we found out early on is that rats would work to get nicotine but not very hard. that is surprising because they do not work hard for alcohol as well. why would so many people be addicted to tobacco smoke if it is ok, but not great? that led us to think that there is something else in there. i found a chemical that i knew -- when this chemical gets into the brain, it reacts with dopamine and forms another chemical that looks like cocaine. we did a whole series of

studies and we showed two things. the chemical enhances the effect of nicotine in the brain. it makes it more addictive. equally important, that chemical by itself is an addictive drug. now, you have two things in cigarettes that are causing addiction. not one. that was a very critical finding for the company. they asked us to figure out how much of levels of nicotine and the other chemical rats like. we came up with that they like more of the chemical ban nicotine. we cannot prove this. i can only tell you what the data suggests. we reported the more the chemical, the better. in 1983, they began adding

sugar to the marble roll cigarettes. when you burn trigger, you form that chemical. if you look at the history of marlborough, the sugar has gone up 26%. it was not until 1986 that marlboro became the best- selling cigarette company in the world. >> how big is philip morris? >> there is an overall corporate name that philip morris is part of. philip morris is a huge company. i do not know how big it is. charlie my know, but i do not. it is massive. >> at that time, that time that victor was doing the work,

finding out that the drug is more addictive, science suggests that they change the recipe for cigarette and continue to change it until it reflected the ratio that victor found in 1982 was the optimal amount that they would enjoy the most. it was such a dramatic thing. we did not have the time to put it into the movie. >> if someone smokes a cigarette, how many different things are put in there by the tobacco companies to enhance that smoke? >> we will take it back a little bit. and just take tobacco. a cigarette with no additives just pure tobacco, if you analyze it, there are 300 chemicals. >> as it comes off the leash? >> yes. those three and chemicals mix

together and when you burn it, they form 4000. that is just from burning natural tobacco. a person with no additives in their product is inhaling about 4000 chemicals. new numbers have come out that set up to 7000. we will be conservative and say 4000. there are chemicals in their that produce cancer. there is formaldehyde. rat poison. things that are made when you burn tobacco products. >> i want to show the hearing that you saw. where were you when you saw it? >> i think i was at my uncle's house. i was at a relative's house. >> there were seven people up there testifying from the tobacco companies. how many of those tobacco

companies still exist? >> two. i am not sure. all of the company still exist. all of the ceos are gone. >> all seven have retired. they went to perfect their golf game. all seven have left the industry within a year of the event. the hearing. >> here is the clip. you are going to see ron white. >> i am going to go right down the row and ask each one of you a simple question. you are under oath. >> i believe nicotine is not addictive. >> cigarettes and nicotine clearly do not meet the classic definitions of addiction. >> we take that as a note. >> i do not believe nicotine, for our products are addictive. >> not addictive. >> not addictive.

>> did this group discussed the need to state clearly the same words as you all did and the same words that nicotine is not addictive? >> that is outrageous. it is outrageous for you to assume that we talk about these issues. we are competitors. we are independent. we are fighting for survival in a legitimate marketplace. >> a very difficult for leaders to find you a disabled character after seven intelligent people tell the american people that cigarettes are not addictive. what could be more ridiculous? if we are skeptical, you understand why. >> you alluded to this earlier. why do you think it took so long for the congress or the government to do something about this? they have been studying this from quebec in the 1960's. >> the tobacco industry came together in 1953 and formed a

very tight union, sort of. tobacco growers. they agreed to not let out any sign that would be incriminating to them to actively put up a public safety saying we are concerned about the health of our customers and to actively pledge to spend a lot of money on science that would investigate this in the interest of the consumer. this basic fact kept doubt about the toxic nature of their product and the employees talking to the media. they have a perfect record of success until 1994. >> one of the ceos says, how dare you suggest that we get together. but, what was suggested is that

they have this trade group that allows them to get around it. do you want to give any background from your perspective? there is no question. the tobacco industry, where they may not shared secrets, they shared strategy is -- strategies. phil morris had a scientist that was sitting on the surgeon general's committee in washington and was listening to things about tobacco and before that person would go back to new york, they would stop off in virginia and report to the industry what the surgeon general was thinking and then he would go back home. that information was shared amongst the companies. while it is true they did not share trade secrets, they most certainly shared strategy and logistical situations about how to do with the government. >> what have they said about the addiction part? >> until the year 2000, they claimed it was not addictive. and then they said, we knew it all along.

>> these guys had all left by then. >> yes. all seven had retired at that point. new people were brought in. >> what impact did the hearing have on those seven executives? >> it clearly greased the wheels in their departure. they were a big liability and a national laughingstock, if you can laugh about it. they swore what everyone intuitively knew was not true. two weeks later, in that same room, a fellow comes along and refutes what they all said in a matter of fact. no axe to grind. >> we are sitting here talking about a documentary that is against tobacco, against these addictions. what is the other side of this? are there people taking the other side?

>> it is not anti-tobacco. it is a historical perspective. you need to make a decision. have that hearing with the seven executives been closed and have all those words never made public, i do not think anything would have come about. this was the first hearing gavel-to-gavel that was televised on c-span. the public, for the first time, got to see seven people obviously lying to congress. obviously been delusional to congress. >> do you think they were lying or have they convinced themselves -- >> i do not know. the best you can say is they were totally delusional. they bought into their own ideology of what tobacco was. you can say actively like to congress. i do not know whether they lied

or they were -- many grand juries were convened to prosecute them for perjury. it is believed in law enforcement that they were lying but they could not be prosecuted. >> what you think -- this congress spends billions of dollars fighting the drug war. mexico and south america and that kind of thing. why do we spend so much money and a war against drugs, but if this is a proven addiction we do not shut it down completely? >> there are a lot of addicts in this country. it is being displayed by the newly empowered fda. how do you get -- wean people off of nicotine without having some sort of cataclysmic economic fallout from 40 million americans -- 40 million americans who cannot go to work

or are far less functional. >> how much is tied to the tax benefits to the state? >> people say that but i think if you look at -- i do not know what the numbers are. i know generally what they are. if you look at how much money is brought in, you spend twice that money on health care costs. you are spending 60 cents on health care costs. >> how much money does the tobacco company have to give to the states? >> it is hundreds of billions of dollars over the next 25 years. >> it continues? >> it is a payment plan. tobacco -- a third of the people who use tobacco, will die. the other two-thirds will have long-term health care problems. copd and cancer.

tobacco does these things 20 years from now. the problem is tobacco does these things 20 years from now. methamphetamine, alcohol and they are a cute. they do the damage quickly so we see the. -- they are accute. they do the damage quickly so we can see it. >> i think it is a corporate now, cautionary tale, or a window on the disgrace of the industry and what happens when public opinion turns on an industry and realizes it is doing very bad. there are economic consequences and these will be paid the next couple of generations.

they will pay much more dearly than they have yet. >> how long is your documentary? >> 100 minutes. >> when will it be available? >> of denver and october. it -- september and october. host: how long as you expected to be in theaters? >> a couple months. host: let me roll the tape. the democrat is questioning a ehud. >> he ask your version of the events, and the doctor told the subcommittee he would be unable to talk to us because it would violate the confidentiality agreement here again -- confidentiality agreement. will you release him from his confidentiality agreement so he

can appear voluntarily to tell us what really happened? >> i do not know about the confidentiality agreement, so i would have to have an investigation. >> would you release him? would you allow the doctor to come forward? >> i see no problem. >> that is not a question of your good -- that is not a question. he will voluntarily appear if he can get through the agreement he has with your company. will you release them? >> can i check with the company at this time. >> you are the president of the board. >> no, i am not. >> you will do it. >> how many of those are your

evidence and not mine? >> those are our videos. guest: i thought i made those cuts, but you did. >> were you in the room? guest: no, i was watching. host: where were you? guest: i was in delaware. we were asked to digest the hearing and what was going on. host: why? >> i knew i was going to have to respond. i did not know we were going to get released. hon mr. campbell just said no and ended it, but the tobacco industry lobbyist would have blocked my testimony from being

heard, so about is a critical moment for us when he said, sure, we will do it. there was an amazing sense of relief. host: i have got to show this. i remember a received a phone call from my mother, and she called me and said, victor is on television, and a lot of my friends called him region what do they call those people? >> informants? >> something like that, and a couple of them related to me off -- really ticked me off. you are talking my a -- about my kids. host: who did the interviews 7? guest: i did that in the summer

of 2009. we were in long island new york. richmond, virginia. host: is your mom still alive? >> she passed away on june 15. host: i see both of you are very unemotional. this has obviously affected you mr. evans. why? guest: characters mom was a lovely person. -- victor's mom was a lovely person. host: what was your reaction to the stock like amazon -- to the spotlight? guest: she called me up and said, tell the truth.

host: you give your sister advice on how to get out of this? guest: i said, mom, i am not going to bother you about smoking. to me a favor and exercise. my sister is now doing the same thing. i realize some people cannot overcome addiction, and these are two people who cannot. she goes on the treadmill and does her thing, and she has cut back. i am proud of her. host: how often do you talk to young people? >> i do not know reprogram today, five days a week, so i am in 50 schools each week. host: 40 you live now? >> i travel all around the country.

i have gone to three or four or five different principles, and the school i do not ever promote. i have no website. host: how you get attention? guest: i just tell them i am a scientist and to drug research, but i do not work with people. i work with animals, and i explain what i do. it is amazing. i do not know how or why i have such a away with kids. it is their choice. no one is going to stick a needle in their veins. now you will decide to do that. i know you are only 12 years old, but it is your decision. it is not parents, a peer pressure. you will choose. it is their choice, and they have the right to choose.

host: how much they thing did you do? -- how much taping did you do? >> 10 or 15 presentations. >> what was the toughest part about making this documentary and why did it take so long? >> i needed an ending. i needed to know about an industry that has not been badly impacted. the bill signed into law with the fda overseeing them culminates what began in these subcommittee rooms sphere -- rooms, the disgrace of an industry where they needed to be lumped in with the others. they no longer needed to be

protected, and given the exemptions but had been the case of for that. >> this is a little clip. i believe it is an attorney from louisiana. guest: new orleans. >> 21 days, he does none of those things. he wakes up now. the first thing he does in the morning is goes up to the switch. >> they were hitting not switch to 90 times a day, and they need and nicotine. the first thing they did in the morning was hit the switch like a smoker, and the last thing they did at night was to hit the switch. that is an expression louisiana lawyers use when you have gone

the jackpot. host: did you ever hear that before? guest: it was a moment of interview go. i was trying not soon have and then he said it again. i just missed getting the repetition. host: did anybody from the tobacco industry agree to be interviewed? guest: during the time the film covers, i was fortunate enough to have in one highly placed, very visible tobacco attorney gone tobacco executive steven parrish, and after a long time

of being off-camera background research consultant, he agreed to go on camera to give a window of what was going on in their re x well news bombshells were going off all around them. host: you were talking about the riots. what is this? >> to determine whether the drug is addictive, rats are plays and a little box cover and they have levers on them, and if you press one lever, it activates a pump and it goes into their veins. the ride pressing the switch, that is how it comes into contact with the drug.

it is curious. the rat's brain begins to change, and over time the route will get addictive. it takes anywhere between 20 to 35 days to get a ticket, just like with of persons. at the beginning of the movie you will see the animation because he's those animated rock pushing the button. he was talking about the wrath pushing those boxes. -- the rats pushing those boxes. guest: i thought it was important because i wanted kids to understand they are changing their brave when they put a drug in there. it is producing things but would not normally happen, and this is horrifying to kids, and is a small part nos the reactive noise of the cases -- a

small part of the reactiveness of the kids. host: how many kids smoke? guest: 22% of the population, and that varies. if you go to states like michigan, 30%. the average is 26%. some states are higher. some states are lower. host: have you looked out why? >> california has one of the most comprehensive anti-tobacco programs, so there were one of the first ones to bear on smoking in restaurants and bars. there were one of the first to require tobacco education. other states are coming on board, so it depends how much money you have and whether you can provide this kind of education.

education is the key. the more educated fourth graders are on tobacco, the better off they are going to be. >> how about a world of and what have you found out about the world and smoking, and what about the united states statistically manama -- statistically? guest: there is a lot of interest worldwide. there is a huge problem worldwide. host: what would make this documentary of success, and the you expect to make money from it upon--- you expect to make money from it? guest: i will work to make sure it will, but i will try to make sure it is showing in schools. >> i think the documentary is going to be a success. we will modify it and shorten it and offer it to folks to use as an educational tool, and i

think today's on what i see with kids coming up to me in college common and i have very high hopes that kids will look up as 10 years from now and say, did that really happened back then? teachers can use it as an educational tool. good >> you were at a screening last night, and a kid in the front row said, i was just a couple years old when this happened. he would not have -- without this film, it was clear this historical reference, all of this a bad behavior that people feel is a matter of fact people need to be reminded of the potential for corporations, when they are allowed to run wild and there is a big toll in

human lives. people will produce lethal products for profit, unless they are regulated. >> who inherited your documentary and nine -- narrated your documentary? >> there was no narrator. but was one of the great successes. i like a story that dovetails enough to have a good narrative going. >> here is one last clip of you testifying. >> we are also interested in some developments were researchers live from richmond, virginia to new york city to brees on their work. can you walk us through some of

those key events of started in richmond? >> we were notified we were going to be going to new york. we were taken to the airport on a company jet, flown to new york, and one of the limousines met us and took us over to the corporate headquarters. at that point, we gave a presentation to several members of the york corporate staff entertained questions, have lunch, and were flown back on a company jet. >> what kinds of questions were asked in your briefing? >> i was only asked one question. it was basically, why should i ways of billion dollar industry on rats pressing a lever to -- why should i waste of billion dollar industry on rats pressing a lever to get nicotine?

>> can you tell us who was there? >> there was only one individual i can remember, and that was caroline levy of. >> for these top management people? >> yes, they were. >> would it be fair to say senior management was troubled or worried about the work you were doing it? >> i did not think so. on the way back we all thought things went very well. subsequently, we were told our laboratory might be shut down, but they wanted to continue the research, and the possibility was that we would continue in switzerland. host: put this in context. that was 1994. how long did you work for philip morris. >> from 1980 until 1984 in richmond, virginia.

host: what were your circumstances? did you have a contract thomas -- did you have a contract? guest: i was an employee. we did our research with the secrecy agreement. of we were fired on april 5 1984, and there was an agreement they had signed until the congressional hearing, where mr. campbell actually released myself and dr. paul, and we appear before congress. >> why did you sign a secrecy agreement? >> it is not unusual. new sign an agreement of things that you cannot divulge, but if you have a pharmaceutical

company, you cannot work on the same product for five years. this is a lifelong agreement we signed, so once you sign this agreement, for the rest of your life, you will never discuss what you have done in the tobacco industry. host: i want to show both of you some photographs, and these have nothing to do with your documentary. let put one up on the screen n.y., and this has to do with the fda, and you can see this is a man whose larynx was taken out, warning cigarettes are addictive. this man i believe has passed. you can see his just opened up. smoking can harm your children, and finally, cigarettes cause smokes -- cause heart disease.

>> these are the new warning labels the fda wanted to put on the new packs of cigarettes, and the tobacco industry, the fda recommended these warnings but they went to the court and said these are a violation of first amendment rights, because they are not based on scientific evidence. these warnings are based on supposition, and the courts upheld the tobacco industry's position. they said you cannot be forced to counter advertise on your own product. it is an interesting thing. warning labels in australia are of graphic nature is, and the amount of smoking in australia is almost equivalent. >> of federal judge stop this. did you know what reason he gave it? >> not close enough to talk about it. >> what he said was that the

fda does not have the right to force you to counter advertise on your own product. >> you said that earlier. >> these are small skirmishes, and while they are important locally, the big picture is the fda is currently in power to reduce the content in tobacco products to the point they will not sustain addiction, and this is the hope of anti-tobacco advocates. i think americans are strongly -- a vast majority of americans agreed that they do not want kids in the future smoking and even smokers are included in that number. the question is how to get the

attics off without having economic repercussions, and the hope is the the fda will make a regulation for nicotine reduction over time to the point where tobacco will be of memory for most people. >> one of the things that got my attention in your documentary, you use a couple of interviews with peter jennings interviewin. guest: are things to different people in the course of the film. >> he died of lung cancer. he was a smoker. did either one of you ever meet him or ask him about this? guest: i met with him in 1995. he quit smoking, and he started again at 9-11. he was clearly aware that it was a drug and that he was a

gifted to the drug. good return if he was a ticket to the drug. even if you stop smoking you may suffer the consequences later in life, which peter jennings did. that is an important point for young people. the question is what is your quality of life going to be when you get older. host: is december when this will be released. are you going to allow him to use it with kids in alabama region and with kids now? >> the doctor can do whatever he wants with the movie. -- are you going to allow the doctor to use this with kids? >> the doctor can do whatever he wants with the movie.

he is on the road to hundred days a year. i think the face to face approach is the one he favors. >> what if someone is watching the saying, i want him in my kids' classrooms? >> there is a website for the movie, and you can leave a message on there, and somebody will get back to you, and we can figure out how to do that. host: let me say some things. the people the work of philip morris or any of these companies are good people. they have children. what happens to the addiction brain is that they keep selling this knowing it is going to cause all the problems. 400,000 people die a year from smoking bowman -- from smoking. but if you are working in tobacco you are just a regular guy or woman.

do you say, i am going to stop doing this completely and earn half the money, and i may not even get a job? these people are earning a living for their families. are they bad people? absolutely not. guest: there is an interesting syndrome and that it has been compared to hear good and he was the "the new york times" columnist. he said, somebody is going to do it if i do not do it, and it is a syndrome but was observed and theorized coming out of concentration camp guards, were they had to justify what they were doing , and there is the whole rationale but allows them to cope with this awareness of all the carnage caused by the

products. >> you get a reaction from the tobacco companies? >> no, and we would welcome it. >> did anything happened in the time as they try to stop you participating? guest: know, they have left me alone, and they left the movie alone. >> you live in san diego, and you live in? >> new york city. host: 51 to get in touch with you on this, they can go to the website. guest: addictionincorporated.com. host: thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having us. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> for a dvd copy, call.

for free transcripts, visit us at our website. "q&a" project needed now is also available as c-span -- "q&a" podcast are also available. >> i think that what we are probably going to see is committees of various jurisdictions coming up with bills that deal with slices of the responsibility. >> tonight this congress woman on cyber security issues now in front of congress at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span 2.

>> here is a look fcc's band lineup on this present day. in a few moments "washington journal." at 10:00 eastern, the ceremony at the white house with president obama on or in the 2011 recipients of the national medal. at 10:30, martha: plea of massachusetts and encourage an alley of virginia debate the constitutionality of provisions in the new health care law. later, the male recipients of the nobel peace prize from africa and the middle east -- later, female recipients of the nobel peace prize from africa and the middle east. at 7:45 eastern international monetary fund adviser robert shapiro tries to talk about the impact of the crisis. then at 8:30 the elections